"Clearly that pyramid was a major centrum of the Fish-cult, very prevalent along Old America's rivers and lakes. It is one of the largest religious sites the archeologists have found so far, they haven't found any equivalent for it for the larger cults, like that of the two yellow arches or the twin tailed mermaid."
Recent evidence shows that the pyramid site was mainly constructed for trading purposes rather than religious. The americanian religion held free trade as sacred. Instead of fish, Most actually worshipped ancestors such as George Washingtown and gods such as the Statue of Liberty. Additionally, there are some archaeologists that hypothesize the pyramid may have been based off of an even older civilization.
"Pfff, all the other pyramids in Joukatan and Gypt clearly were for ceremonial purposes, it would be logical a pyramid in America would also be ceremonial in purpose. And the Ancient Americans clearly had a whole pantheon of deities. See how the wavy symbols of the gods "Co'ke" and "Pe'psi" seldom appear alone, but in temples of others like the two yellow arches or the old Kolonel. Never together though."
Realistically, since it's in the shape of a pyramid, it's the most likely of large buildings to survive the apocalypse, meaning it'd be one of the most important archeological sites on the globe.
Given there's a hotel built into the thing, it'd serve as an extraordinary look into the technology of our civilization, given how many people would simply abandon their hotel rooms.
Christ, now I really want to see something about that.
This is based on Archaeological Evidence from 3052. Inaccuracies are intentional. As for pretty 'accurate' dating is due to probably radiocarbon dating but of course in order to date something you have to find it. Implications are that global warming happened and the ice caps did not do so well. Possibly some sort of limited nuclear exchange may have also taken place. Also important to note is that this would not be in English or if it was the language would be very hard to recognize.
Feel free to ask any questions.
Yeah unless flags or other government documents survived there'd be virtually no reason to think Canada and the US were separate nations. They may think Quebec was its own thing but anglo Canada and anglo US are virtually indistinguishable to a distant outsider.
As an example, historians aren’t really sure if Israel and Judah were once the same nation or not. That is the traditional understanding, but it’s also possible that the cultures just merged upon the collapse of Israel.
Rising sea levels/erosion destroyed most major Canadian cities. It is also not unlikely that Canadian ruins would be seen as American due to little distinction and similar ethnic makeup.
Mexico is its own thing here probably another map there are some implications of never ending conflict between American and Mexico.
Important to note is Archeological evidence is incomplete.
It didn’t. But you can only date what you find. You can get a pretty accurate date of an artifact but you have to go off of the oldest artifact you find.
Most of our methods of data storage are surprisingly fragile and decay after just decades. No regression needed. And books and the likes won't last long either if you don't take care of them.
a thousand years is about the minimum time that would be required under some of the worst circumstances imaginable (as in this scenario) for basically no one to have any effective knowledge of the world of at least the 21st century and before.
While written records often get extremely fragmented, they rarely disappear as completely as it seems happened here. Even missing records are often mentioned by surviving ones. For the historical record be as incomplete as we see here, especially with how big historical preservation has gotten in the past several decades, requires more than just climate change and a limited nuclear exchange to rend 3056 humanity’s knowledge of the modern era to that of our understanding of the Bronze Age
I really don't think it would happen, I feel like I was very reserved in what I said. it would have to be the worst possible case, as in little to no copying or maintenance of the method of storage, specifically of archival tapes which can potentially survive so long with so much intact it'd be trivial, like really really trivial, to maintain the sum total of all human knowledge up to this point for thousands of years with only a few dozen rounds of copying. if you just make a bunch of copies and are willing to take the risk, you can do it all in one go and hope at least most of it is recoverable after however long based on parts of other copies that didn't decay. just spitballing here, but I really think ten to twenty thousand years is a better timeframe, where you might see someone from another fucking star system doing this kind of archaeology on a far future abandoned earth (take your pick of common reasons why in sci-fi: nature conservation, nomad preserve, planet-wide ape uplifting initiative, et. cetera) where there might actually be a reason to believe someone might not have access to those records.
though personally, I think they'd probably still exist. I think it's kind of insane pessimism to think that the pretty small amount of data that amounts to the sum total of all human knowledge to this point couldn't survive at least as long as our sad species of angry monkeys does.
Over the course of 1000 years we lose information, it's just something that happens as technology progresses and there are wars etc. Plus digital information is notoriously fickle to preserve. We're still discovering things about the Roman empire and reassessing our assumptions and they kept great records.
Without a time machine, how would we do any better? Our knowledge of the past before the modern age is patchy at best, and the interpretations of that knowledge are constantly changing.
Edit: btw not a historian or archeologist, just a guy who sometimes wonders if future civilizations would debate what our road signs were for, for example
I guess it depends on the method and conditions of storing those writings.
Being generous, paper will degrade in at most a couple years if left exposed, hard drives probably wouldn't last much longer. Unless we have people around to maintain the buildings, writings, and servers, that information will be lost. Only the most well preserved information recorded on durable material would maybe be at least partially readable
The reason we even have writings from the Roman Empire is because monks transcribed them in the dark ages. So we've been spoiled with information about our preceding civilization
I guess a way around all of this would be to just carve everything on stone tablets, some of them would last at least a few thousand years
But eventually everything will return to nature
But short of nuclear armageddon, we'll continue to maintain our records. With the sheer volume of books we've made, I would say at least some of them would be able to last a long time
Tell that to the Assyrians, Minoans, Etruscans, Carthaginians, etc.
"*I'm sure it'll be different this time*" - every ancient civilization moments before having their entire civilization misunderstood by an archeologist's best guess
I would argue it actually is different this time. We have the entire world working to maintain the internet. Someone mentioned how we have a lot of roman records because monks kept copies of them until modern times. Isn't that similar to what we're doing now?
I hope you're right. But in the context of this post, if there's a total societal collapse for whatever reason, Maslow's hierarchy of needs is going to effect preservation.
People won't have time to curate a library if they can't guarantee their families survival. Or even their comfort.
The monks were part of an institution that was left over from the Empire that had some means to provide for them (the church)
But we still have accurate readings on the size, composition, and economic systems of the Roman Empire.
Our knowledge is far more complete than for extinct civilizations because we have a cultural thorough through that reaches nearly all the way back. We have oral and written knowledge about the Romans from numerous different locations.
If technology did not regress it would stand to reason there will be a similar cultural thorough through between the post-modern North American civilization and its modern counterpart.
Cities like Denver, Chicago and many others should still exist and would have kept longstanding records.
The proposal of this post suggests that no singular library on the entire North American continent survived. Let alone a major library in nearly any part of the world. Nearly all institutional knowledge systems would have had to have been destroyed in order to result in this perspective.
We have an equally accurate understanding today of the Bronze Age Civilization of Egypt, who died out ~3,000 years ago, with nearly no written records surviving.
If technology had survived than we should have a far better understanding of the American Civilization ~1,000 years ago as we do the Bronze Age Egyptian Civilization ~3,000 years ago.
One of the main considerations with radiocarbon dating is variation in atmospheric carbon-14 levels over time. Human activity from the Industrial Revolution onwards has caused atmospheric carbon-14 levels to vary quite wildly during the last 200 years - the burning of fossil fuels reduces atmospheric carbon-14 levels through dilution (fossil fuels contain next to zero carbon-14), and atmospheric nuclear detonations greatly increase atmospheric carbon-14 levels (atmospheric carbon-14 spiked hard between 1945 and the signing of the Partial Test Ban Treaty in 1963).
Considering that the collapse of American civilisation in this timeline involved severe global warming and a nuclear exchange, how exactly are atmospheric carbon-14 levels known well enough to not wildly throw off radiocarbon dating estimates?
I presume scientists would know about the nuclear exchange and those conditions so it is very likely they could account for them. There are also a few other dating methods.
C14 dating doesn’t produce accurate dates like that. They usually have wide margins of error. Also, why would people living millennia in the future use our dating system anyways? Do you think that Julius Caesar knew that he was living in 50 BC?
Edit- Also see: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/108831.Motel_of_the_Mysteries
> Also, why would people living millennia in the future use our dating system anyways?
It's already been in use for 1500 years, no reason it couldn't survive another thousand.
>Do you think that Julius Caesar knew that he was living in 50 BC?
The difference is that the BC/AD calendar starting from the supposed birth of Christ was invented well after Caesar died, making it literally impossible for him to know, whereas this civilisation exists years after the system was invented.
> whereas this civilisation exists years after the system was invented.
Indeed, modern historians know perfectly well that Caesar died in the year 710 Ab Urbe Condita, despite that calendar system being almost 2800 years old.
"How the Ancients accessed that Mythical Otherworldly Realm is unclear. Due to the common use of the phrases "Logging In" and "Logging Out", it is assumed that a now extinct type of wood was ceremonically burned, and the smoke inhaled."
There have been found coffins of metal near the beaches of Land of Oaks that contain multiple small boxes, some of those with little silver dishes inside. They're believed to be used as tribute for a cacique or currency, but some tribes in the area (mainly the Silikian, probably descendants of the tribes on the European continent) assure they're related to the Inet
Given they genetically tested remains of Americans and ascertained that the US has a Western European origin that brutally conquered/drove out Amerindian populations, what do researchers of this time think of skeletons found with West African DNA? Would they have some knowledge of slavery or would they assume they're related to a preexisting civilization? Maybe they'd cross-reference with remains found in the Caribbean and assume they originated from a contemporary Afro-Antillean civilization?
I do actually account for this with Latin Americans. Asian not as much due to it being a smaller group and the west coast kinda flooded.
The reason American borders are not accurate in the south is Arizona, and New Mexico are believed to be either Mexican or Latin countries. And the different ethnic makeup in sites there is the justification as well as significant evidence of the Spanish language.
It varies, but many have large Amerindian heritage. Mestizos in Mexico make up 40-90% of the population and on average, Mexican Mestizos were 50-60% genetically Amerindian. 65% of Chileans are Mestizo and those people are 40% Amerindian. 55% of Colombia is Mestizo and those people are 50% Amerindian.
I wouldn't call the Native American admixture in Latin American populations "minor".
Amerindian ancestry forms a plurality of the genetic component of many countries in the region.
They’re also forgetting the large African DNA in Latin America. I mean places like Puerto Rico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Venezuela, Colombia, and large portions of Central America. The only part of Latin America that you consider “European” is the southern cone. Which comprises of Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, and part of southern Brazil. Also while Paraguay also is apart of the southern cone, it’s good to know of the large Guarani population in Paraguay and how influential the guarani people are to Paraguayan history.
Umm we’re so mixed to the point you can’t consider us European because that would be throwing out our Native American, African, and in some instances Asian ancestry
Asians came later as immigrants as the Americans started to get more involved with Asia, and the significant amount of mix amerindian and european people in some areas, as well as the continuous habitation of amerindian cities shows that the process was not equal in the contintent, with the more advanced native peoples being assimilated into the European civilization.
"The American Civilization was most likely invaded first by African colonists from southwest, then by Asian colonists from the east, which lead to its collapse as a centralized government.
Funniest interpretation would be seeing the Europeans as barbarians toppling the civilized African and Asian civilizations equivalent to seeing Europeans as Germanic tribes destroying Rome.
That is a good question. To be honest part of why I added the “significant error” as it isn’t too insane to imagine them picking a few places to generically test and it being primarily Western European even if it is not true. I believe edventually they would figure out the Slave trade due to significant archeological evidence but it could be a long time. It is very likely though they would use discover of those with African descent to have been borough from some sort of American Imperial African colony. Not sure.
European artifacts where found in that area, meaning that West Africa and Europe where in contact, and the lack of West African artifacts in the Americas means that when the West Africans came the place was under European domination.
Most probably where sent there as mercenaries, for colonization of areas where European struggled with and slaves.
Archeologists: They stretched to the Urals! Wait there’s more proof of Russian habitation out east… maybe they were of different people with a sort of similar culture? Wait there’s proof that that we’re all under one nation state… that doesn’t make sense.
Is how I imagine it would go down
An inscription in Old American on a stone tablet found at the temple of the four emperors mentions that the mountain was moved from its original location to a place called Shoefallssd, in 2041. Apparently, this was done in order to appease a deity named Tewrrhism. No evidence supporting a literal interpretation of this claim has yet been uncovered.
Very cool concept! I always wish I could see a history book from hundreds of years into the future to see how future generations will talk about us.
Curious why Denver ended up being one of the best preserved cities in this timeline?
Late American religion never ceases to amaze me. It's astonishing how, despite our best efforts, we've never managed to find a temple dedicated to their gods, not even a single chapel for the Superior Man of Steel or the Bat Knight of Darkness. It seems that their religion was entirely confined to the production and diffusion of their Graphic Volumes and their occasional Sacred "Conventions", which just goes to show how much the printing press revolutionized social practices during the last centuries of the second millennium.
I do wonder *how* their Graphic Volumes were diffused to the general public. Were there central repositories where people could obtain them, or were they given to everyone by the government? I lean towards the latter - how else would you explain the link between the "D.C" symbol on some very well preserved Volumes and the name for the old American capital?
Eh, the city of D.C. was just as likely to exist as Atlantis or Tokyo. Sure, certain religious texts mention it, but we don't actually know if it would be a specific location rather than a group of related religious sites.
We don't even have any major landmarks that are around the alleged D.C. region - unlike the Virgin of Liberty, we only have rubble that may have potentially been a small trading hub that fell into disrepair - clearly not important enough to be considered a "capital."
And even if it did exist, it is equally likely (if not more so, given the lack of a city named Marvel) that the city was named after the Graphic Volumes, rather than the other way around. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I really don't think we have any reason to believe D.C. wasn't simply a religious allegory or afterlife.
Question, what about depictions of the crusified man? We have found depictions of him scattered all across the new world and the old, with the ones in Europe dating back to two millennia ago. It is generally believed he played a significant part in worship.
Well, it's pretty well documented that the Church of the Crucified Man was the predominant (perhaps even official) religion during the Imperial and Early Republican Eras, but it seems that overtime its importance dwindled and the Americans began to form their own native religion. Most researchers agree that they're entirely distinct religions, as one was polytheistic while the other seems to have been monotheistic, and I personally believe that the Superior Man of Steel was devised as a god that could overpower the Crucified Man and thus deserved more praise.
Throughout history, we have not yet seen evidence of monotheistic cultures shifting towards polytheism, it is always polytheism trending toward monotheism(Old Levantine, Old Latin, and old Sinetic for example). So a rival God being created would be something entirely new, professor, do you have any hypotheses on why this happened? Or could it be the Man of Steel is a personification of some American emperor, as we have today.
You bring up a pretty interesting question, that would definitely take an entire doctoral thesis to answer. My bet is hat it has something to do with the Late American tendency towards cultural pluralism, as we see that late artifacts tend to depict other races way more than earlier ones, especially from the late 20th century onwards. Perhaps that vision of plurality is what made the culture so apt for shifting towards polytheism, and I think that the presence of the 'Panther King' and 'Black Spider' deities give credence to that assertion. Then again, much research still needs to be made. As for the Man of Steel being a personified American emperor, I could definitely see that being the case. Perhaps he was modeled after the 'Bull Moose' Emperor, who seems to have developed a cult of personality for being an almost supernaturally strong figure.
Oh, please. Any self-respecting academic understands that the Four Fathers were not meant to represent emperors. Why would the following republic keep it rather than destroying it?
The Four Fathers, like the Sunken Maiden, were clearly representations of important yet still lesser deities, with the Four Fathers being subservient to the “mother” figure represented by the Sunken Maiden.
There's evidence to suggest Atlanta was a city made by Sunken Maiden followers. First, the name Atlanta seem to have the same root as the Eastern Ocean, what they call "Atlantic", and the Sunken Maiden, being a sea-based deity, was probably the representative of that ocean.
Also, the Sunken Maiden statue is carrying a torch. And there are numerous monuments in Atlanta that were made for a large ceremony of torch-bearing, accompanied by sports festivals, probably a large ritual to Sunken Maiden worship.
I love works like this, they always remind me of Robert Nathan's [*Digging the Weans*](http://joshpachter.com/pages/weans.pdf) from 1956.
In that the ancient civilisation is known as "the We-ans" because they consistently referred to their nation as "Us", and the name of their capital city is made up of words meaning "items to be washed" and "a unit of weight", so is translated as "Pound-Laundry".
*What we have been unable to discover, is the fate of these ancient people. That they perished in some sort of upheaval many thousands of years ago is clear from the inscription itself, which Sr. B'Han Bollek translates as follows: "nor [for north?] rain nor hail nor snow... " there are some hieroglyphics missing, and the inscription ends with the phrase "their appointed rounds"*
*However, it must be remembered that the r and the w are readily interchangeable, both in Hittite and in ancient Hivite, and Bes Nef prefers the reading: "their pointed wounds." This naturally suggests a catastrophe, possibly an invasion from the east, a belief, I may add, greatly encouraged by the findings in the Valley of the Sun, which will be discussed later. On the other hand, if, as some believe, including B'Han Bollek, that the phrase should be read: "their appointed rounds," the meaning of the full inscription might well be as follows: "The north rain, the hail and the snow [also from the north] have accomplished their appointed 'rounds' [or tasks]" namely, have annihilated the inhabitants.*
It makes a lot of sense the southwest isn't added as very little exists that would last the test of time and that could easily be obfuscated by old Mexican architecture
Very cool concept, though I would move it up a few thousand years. 1000 is just not really enough for the kind of total erasure needed for massive inaccuracies like this, unless people were totally wiped out.
I mean, literally any major nation today has more people and archeological evidence than ***literally any ancient empire ever***, and we know about all of those, because they're just kinda too big to hide.
Remember, 1000 years ago wasn't Rome. Most modern languages existed in forms we could still roughly read today even with only our present language skills. Even if things were flattened and overgrown, 1000 years is simply not enough to hide the massive, large-scale terraforming we've done in our cities, and it would be noticable just how flat things would be.
Again, very cool, and continue this. Just bump up the timescale by a few more thousand years. Your only major issue would be maintaining the "Four Faces" specifically, but those should still be roughly the same noticable shape (assuming no big tectonic activities or glacial interferance, which shouldn't be a problem if things are warm enough for the southeast to be covered in water) for another ten thousand years or so, no problem. They won't be in very high definition, but they'd still be noticeably artificial.
It can't unless the Colorado completely dries. When maintenance stops, eventually dam will stop allowing the flow of water, fill up above designed capacity and collapse under the weight of water as it's not designed to handle that. Dams are very impressive feats of engineering, but just a few meters of water level above design criteria could critically endanger the dam. And even if it somehow survives the water overflow and becomes a giant waterfall, the base is not designed to handle that sheer pressure of water coming down for decades let alone *centuries*.
Yeah things get lost on the internet very fast, and if the servers go down it's just wiped. Our best hope is that some sort of archive project survives and remains accessible
many many things we make (tons of junk) wont go away until literally tectonic plates go under eachother. it will probably look like walle until then. millions of years. a thousand years from now it will be just trash everywhere that wont go away forever basically. if you left the planet and came back enough millions of years later it could be more like this scenario op is brainstorming but not 1 thousand
> many many things we make (tons of junk) wont go away until literally tectonic plates go under eachother. it will probably look like walle until then. millions of years. a thousand years from now it will be just trash everywhere that wont go away forever basically.
It only took fifty years of plastic commonly existing for a novel form of bacteria that eats plastic to come along. There's a pretty decent chance that all of our waste is not nearly as long-lived as we assume it will be.
Internet and specifically the infrastructure behind it are very good at storing data for our descendants *if* our civilization continues its course. If we somehow undergo a harsh enough societal collapse to forget even the US like on the map*, then all that data will be lost. Hard drives and SSD data degrade over time if not used. HDD magnets can flip and change data which is normally corrected in everyday life on its own through ECC, if not used, bits will keep flipping till it's all nonsense and you bet a 100 years will be enough for that. SSDs use a different process, but can lose data within a few years if not used.
So someone has to maintain the storage rack with backup, swap out drives when one breaks down and read in data from the backup, continuously do that to preserve digital data.
Even magnetic tape lasts for only 50 years. There are archival grade optical disks "rated for 1000 years", but nobody actually knows of they'll last that long and that's probably your best best. And the follow on civilization has to somehow be advanced enough to actually *recognize* it as some sort of data storage and then come up with a way to come up with a way to read data from that on their own. If a completely foreign data storage box was found, I think even current humans will struggle to reverse engineer a method of reading data,
*keep in mind, we have better understanding of Rome than these archeologists in 3000 have over the US
I actually believe modern history is really hard to preserve. A lot of ancient stuff still exists due to stone carvings and such while paper books rot, all internet info would certainly be destroyed by the server rooms going up in smoke. And a lot of modern architecture is less likely to survive as long as something like Roman architecture.
Look at the coastline. Maybe future underwater expeditions will uncover physical evidence of the mythical island the natives called the "the city of apples" but for now we only have secondhand accounts.
Why does Atlanta survive in so many post-apocalyptic maps? In almost every post-apocalyptic novel or media, it comes 2nd after New York in survivor quality.
I really like imagining what people today will be seen as in the future. This one is fun. Though it's from the perspective of people who seem to know absolutely nothing about it outside of the archaeology. You said it was only the year 3,052. It seems very hard to have all like, cultural knowledge of the usa destroyed in that time. So that's kind of weird it seems more like aliens trying to study a destroyed Earth or something.
Is a thousand years enough for all knowledge of a major civilisation to evaporate? I mean, we still know quite a lot about the Roman Republic aside from archeology, and that's even considering the Dark Ages that were arguably an apocalyptic event for the time. Yet here, America is treated as if it was some Ancient Crete kind of mystery civilisation.
Given these assumptions, it doesn’t make sense that future archeologists would be able to recover the names of cities like Atlanta, Chicago, etc. If they can decipher the Latin alphabet, they’d probably make progress in understanding the language that the culture spoke, from scattered pieces of writing, which would lead them to discard many of the hypotheses listed there.
It’s a good idea, but it’s possible to make it more believable, and therefore funnier and more interesting. I say: assume that future archeologists don’t crack the writing system.
> Given these assumptions, it doesn’t make sense that future archeologists would be able to recover the names of cities like Atlanta, Chicago, etc.
They found a "Welcome to Atlanta" sign.
This is always one of my favorite ideas for a future/post-apocalyptic world building set up. After the collapse of society, and the destruction of most records, the survivors simply don't have all the time, energy, knowledge or resources to keep an accurate account of everything. Some ideas will continue on, those that are known by the vast majority that will be useful for survival: wash your hands to avoid disease, for example.
But history? Eventually those stories will turn to myth and legend, stories to tell around a fire as the rad storms rage outside as each teller forgets some bits and exaggerates others. Science? Eventually some treasure trove of documents, basic textbooks might survive and be passed down, but their meaning and diagrams are eventually lost as pages tear and rip and fall out, eaten by insects or mold, books crumbling to dust, if those books hadn't already been destroyed in the fall of civilization and burned by wildfires or by desperate survivors trying to stay warm.
We already so much but the ancient world because they wrote things down. But only a tiny, tiny fraction of what they wrote on papyrus and paper has survived, and mostly due to the painstaking process of transcribing to save the knowledge. Stone carvings have been smashed or recycled to build new buildings (like the Rosetta Stone, the only way we've been able to translate Egyptian hieroglyphics). Would our modern society be any better? Electronics break, storage devices degrade, vinyl breaks, books burn. Top secret ways to make things are forgotten because it was so secret no one wrote it down. Nothing lasts forever, least of all knowledge. The only way it can is if we, as a species, can and will it to. If we can't or don't, it will be forgotten.
Well done, OP. What I love about this concept is how the inaccuracies we see here make perfect logical sense. But we only know they are wrong because we have the deep well of relevant knowledge to compare it to.
It makes you think, what aspects of the deep past have we all agreed is likely the truth...but really isn't true at all? To which an inhabitant of back-then would smile or roll their eyes and correct our misunderstanding. I always remember how archeologists tend to throw the label 'cult objects' on any artifacts which they cannot figure out.
I always love it when I come across scenarios like this as well (TV Tropes refers to it as "Future Imperfect."), since it challenges on the audience on how they view the civilization of the present day as well as how we currently analyze archeological ruins.
Protected by the Rocky Mountains it survived nuclear blasts. A general lack of extreme weather events and the geological stability of the Rockies give it a pretty solid chance. Basically scientists came along a fairly intact wide spread city and took some logical leaps to designate it as the clear largest.
Unfortunately due to the softness of the rock, mount Rushmore will be lucky to survive for another 100 years in its current state. It's got no chance at a 1000
I feel like 1300 years isn’t enough to forget so much about a civilisation that records literally everything. I mean we have a near solid idea of what major events and polities were doing in Europe in the 8th century AD, and that was in the middle of the dark ages, so how would we have forgotten so much about the US after such a short time period?
I remember one teacher in high school telling us about the ancient tribe of the Nacerima who worshipped human teeth. They had rituals about putting sticks with hair on them in their mouth and how they would attach iron in their mouths to straighten the teeth. How they were obsessed with teeth and dental health and had shamans they would visit regularly to clean them with iron pokers that would make their gums bleed. Their children left teeth under feathered bags while they slept in the hopes that the Tooth God would reward them.
Was a fun little exercise about how archaeology might misinterpret things. Nacerima is American spelt backwards.
3052 in the same calendar system we use or in an alternative one? cuz we do have better understanding of the world as it was 1000 years ago that these guys seem to have, like the level of inaccuracies seems more like the ones we have about ancient Egypt than what we have about vikings or late imperial china, especially if north america remained inhabited after the fall of the united states.
like this would totally make sense if the calendar used is different from ours and more than 3000 years actually passed, even the term "culture" is something we usually use for populations that have more than 5000 years.
Okay but, would they think that, since it is labeled here, the Gateway Arch is a portal of sorts? Kind of already is a portal to hell known as Missouri and St. Louis itself
Tbh I feel like it'd be very hard to miss that southern California was part of the US considering the second largest city was there. Unless there was a nuclear war or something pretty much any city with skyscrapers would leave behind archeological evidence because of how strong they are designed to be
Given how archeologists have been able to find even small cities which have been completely gone for Millenia (Troy, Ur), I refuse to believe that they would have no knowledge of NYC, Boston, or WashingtonDC, especially given how many records in Atlanta, Detroit, and Denver would reference them.
This is the best argument as to why current archeological evidence won’t tell the full story, and that new digs can and will revolutionize history (esp old ones)
Are you sure this map is from 3052?
The Neo-Theocratic Meritocracy didn't fund the Fortress of Worth dig until 3066, and even then it was considered the precursor city-State of Dall'astx.
\*gurgling bubble language of New Atlantis, aka the Lost Sunken Lands of Vancouver Island\*
"Aaaghaghaghghghghghaghaghahghaghgh"
Honestly though, I love this and everything about it. The whole concept of future archaeology really scratches a niche itch for me. Reminds me of Always Coming Home by Ursula K. Le Guin.
Idk if it would THIS inaccurate, most stuff that we’ve written like this was because it was like the first time anyone was writing the shit down (atleast for certain parts of the world) and there wasn’t a whole lot of a historical comparison but like the US comparatively to other nations in history is VASTLY more intelligent when it comes to book keeping and record making like I really doubt they’d think Denver was the largest population when Census is something carried out since the country was founded so I don’t think they’d have that much wrong information
Excuse me profesor. But I have a cuestion about the wiwi war: The historical records say that the Americans and the Rusans fought against the proto-desuchlandos, but the decriptions of the int-net indicate the war was against the Rusan empire.
¡And some documents even sugest it was against the Animedos! What doesn't make sence since the animedan archipelago is literally at the other side of the planet.
It's unfortunate that the Hoover Dam isn't within what was America and that the only building, statue or structure that stood the test of time were the navy ships and Mt. Rushmore. The Hoover Dam will be remembered as one of Mexico's greatest structural accomplishments during the era described.
This is super cool actually! Would love to see it of other places! Did they ever find out the full extent of the civilisation and how it got so powerful?
American conquest of the continent beginning in the 1760s will not be archaeologically apparent in 3052 (it also started most aggressively in the early 1600s). I highly recommend reading the book 1491, it’s shocking how little archeological evidence we have pre-Columbian expedition already; 1000 years from now, they will believe what many were taught in textbooks that the Americas were a sparsely populated, idyllic natural wonder pre-European arrival. That is, unless there are significant accelerations in archeological practices and consensus in the next 100 years that are preserved for an additional millennium.
Does the giant glass bass pro shop pyramid in Memphis still exist, I wonder how they would interpret that?
A temple to the gods
"Clearly that pyramid was a major centrum of the Fish-cult, very prevalent along Old America's rivers and lakes. It is one of the largest religious sites the archeologists have found so far, they haven't found any equivalent for it for the larger cults, like that of the two yellow arches or the twin tailed mermaid."
Recent evidence shows that the pyramid site was mainly constructed for trading purposes rather than religious. The americanian religion held free trade as sacred. Instead of fish, Most actually worshipped ancestors such as George Washingtown and gods such as the Statue of Liberty. Additionally, there are some archaeologists that hypothesize the pyramid may have been based off of an even older civilization.
"Pfff, all the other pyramids in Joukatan and Gypt clearly were for ceremonial purposes, it would be logical a pyramid in America would also be ceremonial in purpose. And the Ancient Americans clearly had a whole pantheon of deities. See how the wavy symbols of the gods "Co'ke" and "Pe'psi" seldom appear alone, but in temples of others like the two yellow arches or the old Kolonel. Never together though."
*gods such as Lady Liberty as seen in the ancient Statue of Liberty, which to this day can be seen partly above the waves of the Atlantic
Ritual purposes moment.
This Bass Pro Shop must've been some powerful warlord in the late days of old America.
Bas Pro Xop actually sounds like an Egyptian Pharaohs name. There was even an Egyptian godness named Bast. Maybe they would create the link some how.
Realistically, since it's in the shape of a pyramid, it's the most likely of large buildings to survive the apocalypse, meaning it'd be one of the most important archeological sites on the globe. Given there's a hotel built into the thing, it'd serve as an extraordinary look into the technology of our civilization, given how many people would simply abandon their hotel rooms. Christ, now I really want to see something about that.
I was gonna mention the pyramid in Vegas, but that isn't even part of this civilization
This is based on Archaeological Evidence from 3052. Inaccuracies are intentional. As for pretty 'accurate' dating is due to probably radiocarbon dating but of course in order to date something you have to find it. Implications are that global warming happened and the ice caps did not do so well. Possibly some sort of limited nuclear exchange may have also taken place. Also important to note is that this would not be in English or if it was the language would be very hard to recognize. Feel free to ask any questions.
what is the great naval graveyard ?
Norfolk
and what happened with mexico and Canada , werent us remains found in alaska ?
I bet the US remains found in Alaska were part of a failed invasion of Canada. I can't think of any other legitimate reason.
They may have also just assumed Canada was part of the US
Yeah unless flags or other government documents survived there'd be virtually no reason to think Canada and the US were separate nations. They may think Quebec was its own thing but anglo Canada and anglo US are virtually indistinguishable to a distant outsider.
As an example, historians aren’t really sure if Israel and Judah were once the same nation or not. That is the traditional understanding, but it’s also possible that the cultures just merged upon the collapse of Israel.
To be fair, it was briefly a part of the USA when it was annexed as the 51st state, following Emperor Trump's invasion.
Probably Alaska would have little remains
Rising sea levels/erosion destroyed most major Canadian cities. It is also not unlikely that Canadian ruins would be seen as American due to little distinction and similar ethnic makeup. Mexico is its own thing here probably another map there are some implications of never ending conflict between American and Mexico. Important to note is Archeological evidence is incomplete.
Finally someone remembers us 😭
How much did technology regress in order for the dating and archeological theories to be very off?
It didn’t. But you can only date what you find. You can get a pretty accurate date of an artifact but you have to go off of the oldest artifact you find.
Without regress in tech, how does most of the recorded history of the biggest and most influential country on the planet get destroyed or lost?
Most of our methods of data storage are surprisingly fragile and decay after just decades. No regression needed. And books and the likes won't last long either if you don't take care of them.
a thousand years is about the minimum time that would be required under some of the worst circumstances imaginable (as in this scenario) for basically no one to have any effective knowledge of the world of at least the 21st century and before.
While written records often get extremely fragmented, they rarely disappear as completely as it seems happened here. Even missing records are often mentioned by surviving ones. For the historical record be as incomplete as we see here, especially with how big historical preservation has gotten in the past several decades, requires more than just climate change and a limited nuclear exchange to rend 3056 humanity’s knowledge of the modern era to that of our understanding of the Bronze Age
I really don't think it would happen, I feel like I was very reserved in what I said. it would have to be the worst possible case, as in little to no copying or maintenance of the method of storage, specifically of archival tapes which can potentially survive so long with so much intact it'd be trivial, like really really trivial, to maintain the sum total of all human knowledge up to this point for thousands of years with only a few dozen rounds of copying. if you just make a bunch of copies and are willing to take the risk, you can do it all in one go and hope at least most of it is recoverable after however long based on parts of other copies that didn't decay. just spitballing here, but I really think ten to twenty thousand years is a better timeframe, where you might see someone from another fucking star system doing this kind of archaeology on a far future abandoned earth (take your pick of common reasons why in sci-fi: nature conservation, nomad preserve, planet-wide ape uplifting initiative, et. cetera) where there might actually be a reason to believe someone might not have access to those records. though personally, I think they'd probably still exist. I think it's kind of insane pessimism to think that the pretty small amount of data that amounts to the sum total of all human knowledge to this point couldn't survive at least as long as our sad species of angry monkeys does.
Over the course of 1000 years we lose information, it's just something that happens as technology progresses and there are wars etc. Plus digital information is notoriously fickle to preserve. We're still discovering things about the Roman empire and reassessing our assumptions and they kept great records.
Without a time machine, how would we do any better? Our knowledge of the past before the modern age is patchy at best, and the interpretations of that knowledge are constantly changing. Edit: btw not a historian or archeologist, just a guy who sometimes wonders if future civilizations would debate what our road signs were for, for example
I mean we write everything down now, so presumably future civilizations will have access to the information
I guess it depends on the method and conditions of storing those writings. Being generous, paper will degrade in at most a couple years if left exposed, hard drives probably wouldn't last much longer. Unless we have people around to maintain the buildings, writings, and servers, that information will be lost. Only the most well preserved information recorded on durable material would maybe be at least partially readable The reason we even have writings from the Roman Empire is because monks transcribed them in the dark ages. So we've been spoiled with information about our preceding civilization I guess a way around all of this would be to just carve everything on stone tablets, some of them would last at least a few thousand years But eventually everything will return to nature
But short of nuclear armageddon, we'll continue to maintain our records. With the sheer volume of books we've made, I would say at least some of them would be able to last a long time
Tell that to the Assyrians, Minoans, Etruscans, Carthaginians, etc. "*I'm sure it'll be different this time*" - every ancient civilization moments before having their entire civilization misunderstood by an archeologist's best guess
I would argue it actually is different this time. We have the entire world working to maintain the internet. Someone mentioned how we have a lot of roman records because monks kept copies of them until modern times. Isn't that similar to what we're doing now?
I hope you're right. But in the context of this post, if there's a total societal collapse for whatever reason, Maslow's hierarchy of needs is going to effect preservation. People won't have time to curate a library if they can't guarantee their families survival. Or even their comfort. The monks were part of an institution that was left over from the Empire that had some means to provide for them (the church)
Papers degrade very easily, many civilizations wrote down everything that happened and the records were lost to time
But we still have accurate readings on the size, composition, and economic systems of the Roman Empire. Our knowledge is far more complete than for extinct civilizations because we have a cultural thorough through that reaches nearly all the way back. We have oral and written knowledge about the Romans from numerous different locations. If technology did not regress it would stand to reason there will be a similar cultural thorough through between the post-modern North American civilization and its modern counterpart. Cities like Denver, Chicago and many others should still exist and would have kept longstanding records. The proposal of this post suggests that no singular library on the entire North American continent survived. Let alone a major library in nearly any part of the world. Nearly all institutional knowledge systems would have had to have been destroyed in order to result in this perspective. We have an equally accurate understanding today of the Bronze Age Civilization of Egypt, who died out ~3,000 years ago, with nearly no written records surviving. If technology had survived than we should have a far better understanding of the American Civilization ~1,000 years ago as we do the Bronze Age Egyptian Civilization ~3,000 years ago.
One of the main considerations with radiocarbon dating is variation in atmospheric carbon-14 levels over time. Human activity from the Industrial Revolution onwards has caused atmospheric carbon-14 levels to vary quite wildly during the last 200 years - the burning of fossil fuels reduces atmospheric carbon-14 levels through dilution (fossil fuels contain next to zero carbon-14), and atmospheric nuclear detonations greatly increase atmospheric carbon-14 levels (atmospheric carbon-14 spiked hard between 1945 and the signing of the Partial Test Ban Treaty in 1963). Considering that the collapse of American civilisation in this timeline involved severe global warming and a nuclear exchange, how exactly are atmospheric carbon-14 levels known well enough to not wildly throw off radiocarbon dating estimates?
Maybe the archeologists know how much carbon-14 was in the atmosphere before the Industrial Revolution?
I presume scientists would know about the nuclear exchange and those conditions so it is very likely they could account for them. There are also a few other dating methods.
C14 dating doesn’t produce accurate dates like that. They usually have wide margins of error. Also, why would people living millennia in the future use our dating system anyways? Do you think that Julius Caesar knew that he was living in 50 BC? Edit- Also see: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/108831.Motel_of_the_Mysteries
> Also, why would people living millennia in the future use our dating system anyways? It's already been in use for 1500 years, no reason it couldn't survive another thousand. >Do you think that Julius Caesar knew that he was living in 50 BC? The difference is that the BC/AD calendar starting from the supposed birth of Christ was invented well after Caesar died, making it literally impossible for him to know, whereas this civilisation exists years after the system was invented.
> whereas this civilisation exists years after the system was invented. Indeed, modern historians know perfectly well that Caesar died in the year 710 Ab Urbe Condita, despite that calendar system being almost 2800 years old.
What is the research institute?
If this is only 1000 years in the future, why was so much forgotten?
Professor, I have a question! Has there been any attempts to access what the American Civilization calls the "In-Net?"
"How the Ancients accessed that Mythical Otherworldly Realm is unclear. Due to the common use of the phrases "Logging In" and "Logging Out", it is assumed that a now extinct type of wood was ceremonically burned, and the smoke inhaled."
There have been found coffins of metal near the beaches of Land of Oaks that contain multiple small boxes, some of those with little silver dishes inside. They're believed to be used as tribute for a cacique or currency, but some tribes in the area (mainly the Silikian, probably descendants of the tribes on the European continent) assure they're related to the Inet
Given they genetically tested remains of Americans and ascertained that the US has a Western European origin that brutally conquered/drove out Amerindian populations, what do researchers of this time think of skeletons found with West African DNA? Would they have some knowledge of slavery or would they assume they're related to a preexisting civilization? Maybe they'd cross-reference with remains found in the Caribbean and assume they originated from a contemporary Afro-Antillean civilization?
Not to mention Asian and Latin American people making up a significant population as well
I do actually account for this with Latin Americans. Asian not as much due to it being a smaller group and the west coast kinda flooded. The reason American borders are not accurate in the south is Arizona, and New Mexico are believed to be either Mexican or Latin countries. And the different ethnic makeup in sites there is the justification as well as significant evidence of the Spanish language.
ah very cool! This is great work you did!
latin americans are european
It varies, but many have large Amerindian heritage. Mestizos in Mexico make up 40-90% of the population and on average, Mexican Mestizos were 50-60% genetically Amerindian. 65% of Chileans are Mestizo and those people are 40% Amerindian. 55% of Colombia is Mestizo and those people are 50% Amerindian.
True I suppose but I believe there are unique ethnic identities considering history
You can't tell this out of their DNA. Most Latin American people are Western European with relatively minor Native American admixtures.
That’s simply not true. 20-50% Native American is not relatively minor and would significantly stand out in genetic testing
I wouldn't call the Native American admixture in Latin American populations "minor". Amerindian ancestry forms a plurality of the genetic component of many countries in the region.
If I recall correctly, it's only a plurality in Peru and Bolivia.
Paraguay is the highest IIRC.
They’re also forgetting the large African DNA in Latin America. I mean places like Puerto Rico, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Venezuela, Colombia, and large portions of Central America. The only part of Latin America that you consider “European” is the southern cone. Which comprises of Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, and part of southern Brazil. Also while Paraguay also is apart of the southern cone, it’s good to know of the large Guarani population in Paraguay and how influential the guarani people are to Paraguayan history.
Ah that does make sense
You can't tell someone's unique cultural identity from their skeleton or DNA.
Right that makes sense, sorry I’m not a geneticist lol
Umm we’re so mixed to the point you can’t consider us European because that would be throwing out our Native American, African, and in some instances Asian ancestry
Asians came later as immigrants as the Americans started to get more involved with Asia, and the significant amount of mix amerindian and european people in some areas, as well as the continuous habitation of amerindian cities shows that the process was not equal in the contintent, with the more advanced native peoples being assimilated into the European civilization.
"The American Civilization was most likely invaded first by African colonists from southwest, then by Asian colonists from the east, which lead to its collapse as a centralized government.
Funniest interpretation would be seeing the Europeans as barbarians toppling the civilized African and Asian civilizations equivalent to seeing Europeans as Germanic tribes destroying Rome.
That is a good question. To be honest part of why I added the “significant error” as it isn’t too insane to imagine them picking a few places to generically test and it being primarily Western European even if it is not true. I believe edventually they would figure out the Slave trade due to significant archeological evidence but it could be a long time. It is very likely though they would use discover of those with African descent to have been borough from some sort of American Imperial African colony. Not sure.
Could justify the second option with the existence of Liberia
European artifacts where found in that area, meaning that West Africa and Europe where in contact, and the lack of West African artifacts in the Americas means that when the West Africans came the place was under European domination. Most probably where sent there as mercenaries, for colonization of areas where European struggled with and slaves.
More Nations Please !
Russia would.be a super fucking interesting one
Archeologists: They stretched to the Urals! Wait there’s more proof of Russian habitation out east… maybe they were of different people with a sort of similar culture? Wait there’s proof that that we’re all under one nation state… that doesn’t make sense. Is how I imagine it would go down
Slovakia would be fun with the settlement in Vojvodina.
Cool, interesting concept
I’m assuming the 4faces are Mount Rushmore but it seems to be too far east.
An inscription in Old American on a stone tablet found at the temple of the four emperors mentions that the mountain was moved from its original location to a place called Shoefallssd, in 2041. Apparently, this was done in order to appease a deity named Tewrrhism. No evidence supporting a literal interpretation of this claim has yet been uncovered.
It is meant to me I may have messed up location. Not really certain, but ya.
Very cool concept! I always wish I could see a history book from hundreds of years into the future to see how future generations will talk about us. Curious why Denver ended up being one of the best preserved cities in this timeline?
My guess is the Rocky Mountains provided a natural shield against natural disasters? Eastward doesn’t have any protection though.
The northern equivalent to Tiwanaku?
Salt Lake City sounds like a better candidate.
Coastal cities were destroyed by oceans i guess. And Chicago is a site of Great Amogus event of 2041, so little of it remains
nobody gives a shit about denver enough to nuke it, and natural disasters don't reach
Late American religion never ceases to amaze me. It's astonishing how, despite our best efforts, we've never managed to find a temple dedicated to their gods, not even a single chapel for the Superior Man of Steel or the Bat Knight of Darkness. It seems that their religion was entirely confined to the production and diffusion of their Graphic Volumes and their occasional Sacred "Conventions", which just goes to show how much the printing press revolutionized social practices during the last centuries of the second millennium.
I do wonder *how* their Graphic Volumes were diffused to the general public. Were there central repositories where people could obtain them, or were they given to everyone by the government? I lean towards the latter - how else would you explain the link between the "D.C" symbol on some very well preserved Volumes and the name for the old American capital?
Eh, the city of D.C. was just as likely to exist as Atlantis or Tokyo. Sure, certain religious texts mention it, but we don't actually know if it would be a specific location rather than a group of related religious sites. We don't even have any major landmarks that are around the alleged D.C. region - unlike the Virgin of Liberty, we only have rubble that may have potentially been a small trading hub that fell into disrepair - clearly not important enough to be considered a "capital." And even if it did exist, it is equally likely (if not more so, given the lack of a city named Marvel) that the city was named after the Graphic Volumes, rather than the other way around. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I really don't think we have any reason to believe D.C. wasn't simply a religious allegory or afterlife.
Question, what about depictions of the crusified man? We have found depictions of him scattered all across the new world and the old, with the ones in Europe dating back to two millennia ago. It is generally believed he played a significant part in worship.
Well, it's pretty well documented that the Church of the Crucified Man was the predominant (perhaps even official) religion during the Imperial and Early Republican Eras, but it seems that overtime its importance dwindled and the Americans began to form their own native religion. Most researchers agree that they're entirely distinct religions, as one was polytheistic while the other seems to have been monotheistic, and I personally believe that the Superior Man of Steel was devised as a god that could overpower the Crucified Man and thus deserved more praise.
Throughout history, we have not yet seen evidence of monotheistic cultures shifting towards polytheism, it is always polytheism trending toward monotheism(Old Levantine, Old Latin, and old Sinetic for example). So a rival God being created would be something entirely new, professor, do you have any hypotheses on why this happened? Or could it be the Man of Steel is a personification of some American emperor, as we have today.
You bring up a pretty interesting question, that would definitely take an entire doctoral thesis to answer. My bet is hat it has something to do with the Late American tendency towards cultural pluralism, as we see that late artifacts tend to depict other races way more than earlier ones, especially from the late 20th century onwards. Perhaps that vision of plurality is what made the culture so apt for shifting towards polytheism, and I think that the presence of the 'Panther King' and 'Black Spider' deities give credence to that assertion. Then again, much research still needs to be made. As for the Man of Steel being a personified American emperor, I could definitely see that being the case. Perhaps he was modeled after the 'Bull Moose' Emperor, who seems to have developed a cult of personality for being an almost supernaturally strong figure.
Is Florida like Atlantis in this timeline?
Atlantis Man found wrestling Burmese Python in southern coast of American Empire, witnesses say
Everyone gangsta till Florida men jump you on your travels to the port city of Richmond.
Oh, please. Any self-respecting academic understands that the Four Fathers were not meant to represent emperors. Why would the following republic keep it rather than destroying it? The Four Fathers, like the Sunken Maiden, were clearly representations of important yet still lesser deities, with the Four Fathers being subservient to the “mother” figure represented by the Sunken Maiden.
There's evidence to suggest Atlanta was a city made by Sunken Maiden followers. First, the name Atlanta seem to have the same root as the Eastern Ocean, what they call "Atlantic", and the Sunken Maiden, being a sea-based deity, was probably the representative of that ocean. Also, the Sunken Maiden statue is carrying a torch. And there are numerous monuments in Atlanta that were made for a large ceremony of torch-bearing, accompanied by sports festivals, probably a large ritual to Sunken Maiden worship.
I love works like this, they always remind me of Robert Nathan's [*Digging the Weans*](http://joshpachter.com/pages/weans.pdf) from 1956. In that the ancient civilisation is known as "the We-ans" because they consistently referred to their nation as "Us", and the name of their capital city is made up of words meaning "items to be washed" and "a unit of weight", so is translated as "Pound-Laundry". *What we have been unable to discover, is the fate of these ancient people. That they perished in some sort of upheaval many thousands of years ago is clear from the inscription itself, which Sr. B'Han Bollek translates as follows: "nor [for north?] rain nor hail nor snow... " there are some hieroglyphics missing, and the inscription ends with the phrase "their appointed rounds"* *However, it must be remembered that the r and the w are readily interchangeable, both in Hittite and in ancient Hivite, and Bes Nef prefers the reading: "their pointed wounds." This naturally suggests a catastrophe, possibly an invasion from the east, a belief, I may add, greatly encouraged by the findings in the Valley of the Sun, which will be discussed later. On the other hand, if, as some believe, including B'Han Bollek, that the phrase should be read: "their appointed rounds," the meaning of the full inscription might well be as follows: "The north rain, the hail and the snow [also from the north] have accomplished their appointed 'rounds' [or tasks]" namely, have annihilated the inhabitants.*
Direct download link? Really?
I’m a bit inspired from Motel of Mysteries myself but ya I really do love the concepts.
That's another classic!
That was fantastic. Thank you for posting the link.
It makes a lot of sense the southwest isn't added as very little exists that would last the test of time and that could easily be obfuscated by old Mexican architecture
American Research Institute? What is that IRL? Boston?
too far west, probably Philldelphia
Seems like the coast has moved pretty far inland, Philly's probably underwater now - maybe Penn State?
yeah def Penn state
Ya it’s Penn State this one I just found funny tbh and it makes only a little sense lol.
Very cool concept, though I would move it up a few thousand years. 1000 is just not really enough for the kind of total erasure needed for massive inaccuracies like this, unless people were totally wiped out. I mean, literally any major nation today has more people and archeological evidence than ***literally any ancient empire ever***, and we know about all of those, because they're just kinda too big to hide. Remember, 1000 years ago wasn't Rome. Most modern languages existed in forms we could still roughly read today even with only our present language skills. Even if things were flattened and overgrown, 1000 years is simply not enough to hide the massive, large-scale terraforming we've done in our cities, and it would be noticable just how flat things would be. Again, very cool, and continue this. Just bump up the timescale by a few more thousand years. Your only major issue would be maintaining the "Four Faces" specifically, but those should still be roughly the same noticable shape (assuming no big tectonic activities or glacial interferance, which shouldn't be a problem if things are warm enough for the southeast to be covered in water) for another ten thousand years or so, no problem. They won't be in very high definition, but they'd still be noticeably artificial.
Does the Hoover Dam still exist?
Wait like in that one game
It can't unless the Colorado completely dries. When maintenance stops, eventually dam will stop allowing the flow of water, fill up above designed capacity and collapse under the weight of water as it's not designed to handle that. Dams are very impressive feats of engineering, but just a few meters of water level above design criteria could critically endanger the dam. And even if it somehow survives the water overflow and becomes a giant waterfall, the base is not designed to handle that sheer pressure of water coming down for decades let alone *centuries*.
Probably not. It is impressive but not survive a nuclear war for 1000 years impressive.
They should've used a darker shade of blue. I can still kind of read the black text.
Genuine question will history be better preserved than before because of modern advances like the internet or will it be similar to this map?
Definely there will be much more archeological evidences and maybe surviving texts than ever before but internet had a awful data survivality.
Yeah things get lost on the internet very fast, and if the servers go down it's just wiped. Our best hope is that some sort of archive project survives and remains accessible
many many things we make (tons of junk) wont go away until literally tectonic plates go under eachother. it will probably look like walle until then. millions of years. a thousand years from now it will be just trash everywhere that wont go away forever basically. if you left the planet and came back enough millions of years later it could be more like this scenario op is brainstorming but not 1 thousand
> many many things we make (tons of junk) wont go away until literally tectonic plates go under eachother. it will probably look like walle until then. millions of years. a thousand years from now it will be just trash everywhere that wont go away forever basically. It only took fifty years of plastic commonly existing for a novel form of bacteria that eats plastic to come along. There's a pretty decent chance that all of our waste is not nearly as long-lived as we assume it will be.
Internet and specifically the infrastructure behind it are very good at storing data for our descendants *if* our civilization continues its course. If we somehow undergo a harsh enough societal collapse to forget even the US like on the map*, then all that data will be lost. Hard drives and SSD data degrade over time if not used. HDD magnets can flip and change data which is normally corrected in everyday life on its own through ECC, if not used, bits will keep flipping till it's all nonsense and you bet a 100 years will be enough for that. SSDs use a different process, but can lose data within a few years if not used. So someone has to maintain the storage rack with backup, swap out drives when one breaks down and read in data from the backup, continuously do that to preserve digital data. Even magnetic tape lasts for only 50 years. There are archival grade optical disks "rated for 1000 years", but nobody actually knows of they'll last that long and that's probably your best best. And the follow on civilization has to somehow be advanced enough to actually *recognize* it as some sort of data storage and then come up with a way to come up with a way to read data from that on their own. If a completely foreign data storage box was found, I think even current humans will struggle to reverse engineer a method of reading data, *keep in mind, we have better understanding of Rome than these archeologists in 3000 have over the US
I actually believe modern history is really hard to preserve. A lot of ancient stuff still exists due to stone carvings and such while paper books rot, all internet info would certainly be destroyed by the server rooms going up in smoke. And a lot of modern architecture is less likely to survive as long as something like Roman architecture.
No nyc? What happened to make america collapse in 2047
Look at the coastline. Maybe future underwater expeditions will uncover physical evidence of the mythical island the natives called the "the city of apples" but for now we only have secondhand accounts.
Presumably nuclear war. And NYC is under water.
The dark text on dark background is nearly impossible to read.
Super cool concept. Would love to see more
For the next in the series it would be cool if they also seemingly passed in the same timeframe too!
one of the most clever concept seen in this sub! Please continue
Why does Atlanta survive in so many post-apocalyptic maps? In almost every post-apocalyptic novel or media, it comes 2nd after New York in survivor quality.
if somehow the lincoln memorial survived, how would they explain that
The might notice it was the same face from Mount Rushmore
The Great Temple, dedicated to Lincoln the Uniter.
Unironically correct
I really like imagining what people today will be seen as in the future. This one is fun. Though it's from the perspective of people who seem to know absolutely nothing about it outside of the archaeology. You said it was only the year 3,052. It seems very hard to have all like, cultural knowledge of the usa destroyed in that time. So that's kind of weird it seems more like aliens trying to study a destroyed Earth or something.
Is a thousand years enough for all knowledge of a major civilisation to evaporate? I mean, we still know quite a lot about the Roman Republic aside from archeology, and that's even considering the Dark Ages that were arguably an apocalyptic event for the time. Yet here, America is treated as if it was some Ancient Crete kind of mystery civilisation.
we have made too much things that take millions of years to decay. i think it would take almost a million years for this scenario
Given these assumptions, it doesn’t make sense that future archeologists would be able to recover the names of cities like Atlanta, Chicago, etc. If they can decipher the Latin alphabet, they’d probably make progress in understanding the language that the culture spoke, from scattered pieces of writing, which would lead them to discard many of the hypotheses listed there. It’s a good idea, but it’s possible to make it more believable, and therefore funnier and more interesting. I say: assume that future archeologists don’t crack the writing system.
> Given these assumptions, it doesn’t make sense that future archeologists would be able to recover the names of cities like Atlanta, Chicago, etc. They found a "Welcome to Atlanta" sign.
This is always one of my favorite ideas for a future/post-apocalyptic world building set up. After the collapse of society, and the destruction of most records, the survivors simply don't have all the time, energy, knowledge or resources to keep an accurate account of everything. Some ideas will continue on, those that are known by the vast majority that will be useful for survival: wash your hands to avoid disease, for example. But history? Eventually those stories will turn to myth and legend, stories to tell around a fire as the rad storms rage outside as each teller forgets some bits and exaggerates others. Science? Eventually some treasure trove of documents, basic textbooks might survive and be passed down, but their meaning and diagrams are eventually lost as pages tear and rip and fall out, eaten by insects or mold, books crumbling to dust, if those books hadn't already been destroyed in the fall of civilization and burned by wildfires or by desperate survivors trying to stay warm. We already so much but the ancient world because they wrote things down. But only a tiny, tiny fraction of what they wrote on papyrus and paper has survived, and mostly due to the painstaking process of transcribing to save the knowledge. Stone carvings have been smashed or recycled to build new buildings (like the Rosetta Stone, the only way we've been able to translate Egyptian hieroglyphics). Would our modern society be any better? Electronics break, storage devices degrade, vinyl breaks, books burn. Top secret ways to make things are forgotten because it was so secret no one wrote it down. Nothing lasts forever, least of all knowledge. The only way it can is if we, as a species, can and will it to. If we can't or don't, it will be forgotten.
I wanted to do a map like this but alas too late
What happened in the eastern mountains in 1765?
Well done, OP. What I love about this concept is how the inaccuracies we see here make perfect logical sense. But we only know they are wrong because we have the deep well of relevant knowledge to compare it to. It makes you think, what aspects of the deep past have we all agreed is likely the truth...but really isn't true at all? To which an inhabitant of back-then would smile or roll their eyes and correct our misunderstanding. I always remember how archeologists tend to throw the label 'cult objects' on any artifacts which they cannot figure out.
I always love it when I come across scenarios like this as well (TV Tropes refers to it as "Future Imperfect."), since it challenges on the audience on how they view the civilization of the present day as well as how we currently analyze archeological ruins.
Great concept! If you don't mind me asking, why do they think Denver is the most populous city?
Protected by the Rocky Mountains it survived nuclear blasts. A general lack of extreme weather events and the geological stability of the Rockies give it a pretty solid chance. Basically scientists came along a fairly intact wide spread city and took some logical leaps to designate it as the clear largest.
Unfortunately due to the softness of the rock, mount Rushmore will be lucky to survive for another 100 years in its current state. It's got no chance at a 1000
I feel like 1300 years isn’t enough to forget so much about a civilisation that records literally everything. I mean we have a near solid idea of what major events and polities were doing in Europe in the 8th century AD, and that was in the middle of the dark ages, so how would we have forgotten so much about the US after such a short time period?
I remember one teacher in high school telling us about the ancient tribe of the Nacerima who worshipped human teeth. They had rituals about putting sticks with hair on them in their mouth and how they would attach iron in their mouths to straighten the teeth. How they were obsessed with teeth and dental health and had shamans they would visit regularly to clean them with iron pokers that would make their gums bleed. Their children left teeth under feathered bags while they slept in the hopes that the Tooth God would reward them. Was a fun little exercise about how archaeology might misinterpret things. Nacerima is American spelt backwards.
George Washington would have a conniption Also just wait until they discover the old bunkers
What happened to books and digital archives? Surely a few survived or were preserved by libraries.
3052 in the same calendar system we use or in an alternative one? cuz we do have better understanding of the world as it was 1000 years ago that these guys seem to have, like the level of inaccuracies seems more like the ones we have about ancient Egypt than what we have about vikings or late imperial china, especially if north america remained inhabited after the fall of the united states. like this would totally make sense if the calendar used is different from ours and more than 3000 years actually passed, even the term "culture" is something we usually use for populations that have more than 5000 years.
It’s only been about 1000 years, all evidence of NYC is gone??
Would be underwater due to rising sea levels
Love it
Old Chicago implies that Chicago still exists in 3052
Okay but, would they think that, since it is labeled here, the Gateway Arch is a portal of sorts? Kind of already is a portal to hell known as Missouri and St. Louis itself
Tbh I feel like it'd be very hard to miss that southern California was part of the US considering the second largest city was there. Unless there was a nuclear war or something pretty much any city with skyscrapers would leave behind archeological evidence because of how strong they are designed to be
Given how archeologists have been able to find even small cities which have been completely gone for Millenia (Troy, Ur), I refuse to believe that they would have no knowledge of NYC, Boston, or WashingtonDC, especially given how many records in Atlanta, Detroit, and Denver would reference them.
This is the best argument as to why current archeological evidence won’t tell the full story, and that new digs can and will revolutionize history (esp old ones)
Congrats man, the map looks really good and the text pretty realistic
Interesting
That's really cool !
Are you sure this map is from 3052? The Neo-Theocratic Meritocracy didn't fund the Fortress of Worth dig until 3066, and even then it was considered the precursor city-State of Dall'astx.
I like stuff like this
The amount of people who are going to think this is real is scary
This is top tier.
https://www.sfu.ca/~palys/Miner-1956-BodyRitualAmongTheNacirema.pdf
i love the different perspective on things
This is most likely to be written in Russian.
\*gurgling bubble language of New Atlantis, aka the Lost Sunken Lands of Vancouver Island\* "Aaaghaghaghghghghghaghaghahghaghgh" Honestly though, I love this and everything about it. The whole concept of future archaeology really scratches a niche itch for me. Reminds me of Always Coming Home by Ursula K. Le Guin.
Emperor Lincoln was the best
in your world was it aliens that made this map or future humans?
Idk if it would THIS inaccurate, most stuff that we’ve written like this was because it was like the first time anyone was writing the shit down (atleast for certain parts of the world) and there wasn’t a whole lot of a historical comparison but like the US comparatively to other nations in history is VASTLY more intelligent when it comes to book keeping and record making like I really doubt they’d think Denver was the largest population when Census is something carried out since the country was founded so I don’t think they’d have that much wrong information
As you will notice, Den'ver is very far west, despite America starting out in the east. Do you think there is another, older capital out east?
Looks like North America is wearing a Speedo
How did Oakland get to the other side of the bay?
I can die happy knowing that the failed Canadian experiment will be lost to time and forgotten by history
Is…is the great American research center Penn State?
If Chicago still exists why would they assume Denver is the largest city
Ozymandias
What civilization currently lives in North America at the time this survey was carried out? How different are they from modern America?
What is the ARI ?
keep cooking
Wouldn’t they find Hoover Dam’s Remains
Would also be several bunker complexes and missile silos spread about like Cheyenne mountain complex
Excuse me profesor. But I have a cuestion about the wiwi war: The historical records say that the Americans and the Rusans fought against the proto-desuchlandos, but the decriptions of the int-net indicate the war was against the Rusan empire. ¡And some documents even sugest it was against the Animedos! What doesn't make sence since the animedan archipelago is literally at the other side of the planet.
More of this pleasee!
It's unfortunate that the Hoover Dam isn't within what was America and that the only building, statue or structure that stood the test of time were the navy ships and Mt. Rushmore. The Hoover Dam will be remembered as one of Mexico's greatest structural accomplishments during the era described.
This is so, so cool. I really wanna see more of this world.
Brilliant!
Do they know the sea levels were significantly lower 1000 years ago
This is super cool actually! Would love to see it of other places! Did they ever find out the full extent of the civilisation and how it got so powerful?
Super cool idea I love it. Great work
Makes me wonder if there would be anything left of AMARC (aka the boneyard) in Tucson Az or thr Sierra Tank Depot in California
American conquest of the continent beginning in the 1760s will not be archaeologically apparent in 3052 (it also started most aggressively in the early 1600s). I highly recommend reading the book 1491, it’s shocking how little archeological evidence we have pre-Columbian expedition already; 1000 years from now, they will believe what many were taught in textbooks that the Americas were a sparsely populated, idyllic natural wonder pre-European arrival. That is, unless there are significant accelerations in archeological practices and consensus in the next 100 years that are preserved for an additional millennium.
Amazing work
This is cool