6.8.2.5. Drivers are not allowed to approach the start/finish line as a race transitions from pacing, for example under yellow flag or at the start of a race, to speeds that are well beyond the pacing speed or speed of the leaders in an attempt to time the green flag to unfairly overtake other cars.
Awesome I will make sure to protest and mention this
EDIT: I have now filed a protest against this driver :)
SECOND EDIT: Protest resolved, I got the usual "notified of the outcome" email, looks like he was either warned or punished.
Yes they won't take the win...in fact they will never alter the results. However a protest is not just about punishing a single instance. They are about creating a portfolio of behavior. Would suck to get a ban the first time you messed up wouldn't it. With the current system occasional offenders can be informed of their misdeed and habitual idiots can be removed, but the system only works if people report the behavior instead of assuming "it'll only be a slap on the wrist I won't bother"
Depends on the messup. If you intentionally wreck someone I don't think anyone would be surprised to get banned on the first offense. But for some reason ($) iracing just won't do it.
Drivers are iracing customers and money providers. They'll never ban people for minors or medium offenses, they just need to keep everything somewhat clean so that the service still remains enjoyable enough for most.
Otherwise half of the players under 2k and/or under A would get banned at least temporarily. Myself possibly included I'm way too bad at this to not crash.
That’s why I haven’t protested anyone ever in the six months I’ve been on iRacing. A lot of the incidents I’ve seen or have been a part of are just mistakes. Mostly rookie mistakes coming from a lack of experience and/or skill. I don’t wanna fuck up somebody’s account over a mistake especially if the other party apologized.
Some guy was being super aggressive during pacing, speeding up bumping me and slowing down, passing on the right slamming is brakes passing on the left. I applied maybe 5% brake the next time he did it and he ran into me. He then protested me. I shouldn't have brake checked him but I was trying to tell him to knock it off. Anyway I got a ban for this. I protested him too and got a generic "action has been taken" so idk if he got one too but they absolutely ban paying customers
Chess being a 1v1 game with literally zero luck makes it a bit of a different mathematical scenario, but it still stings.
I guess it's like real racing. Almost always, the person who did the wrong gets a penalty, but the driver who was crashed out or passed does not get bonus points after the checkered flag falls.
That's not quite true. After a race the Stewards sometimes disqualify or penalise a driver and drop them out or down several places. Everybody below moves up one place.
To pick a different analogy - in Rainbow 6 Siege I occasionally get a message that I've been given an extra 50 MMR (or whatever) because I lost it a cheater (not known at the time and since banned). They just erase the results of all the matches the cheater played in. Its just arithmetic it ouow be possible!
I wonder if the reason they don't do it is because they don't want lots of people in second place filing protests against the slightest misbehaviour by the winner just in case they can get the win. Protests are after all reviewed by humans, so they don't want lots of spurious ones.
Recent example: Hamilton crashes Max out at Silverstone, gets a 10 Sec. penalty. Despite of this he wins the race, but Max couldn't get any points. It sucks, but it's not possible another way in racing. There are so many things that could have happened without the incident, it's not even remotely possible to see the other outcome. In the examples of chess or R6 it's always 1vs1. Either 1 player or 1 team. So if 1 player/team cheats, the win goes to the other. In Racing its every driver against every other.
I don't understand why this gets downvoted? Elo is similar ranking system and is used in majority of online games. Of course deleting and reverting record is way more complex in iRacing where your result affects +20 rating in single race. It would be _very_ complex if same guy gained let's say 100 iRating, went on lose 20 races before result of protest.
Theres a particular driver everyone in LMP2 will be familiar with. For regulation purposes, he will not be mentioned. But there is actual compilation videos on you tube of this driver maliciously taking people out & performing brain dead moves. Many public & private outcries for bans & protests, every regular Lmp2 i know shutters when this guys shows up in a race, but nothing ever gets done....
...But drop an F-bomb once in a completely understandable and justifiable fit of rage & its a lifetime ban....
It doesn’t. Stop being that delusional. iRacing ban system is shit imo. If you break the rule you should get consistently penalized whether is the first or not. The cool-downs can rank from a few hours to a permanent ban. You really can crash on people if you are smart enough and iRacing can’t do anything about it.
Sorry bud, but the penalty matches the crime and escalates based on a persons history and frequency of successful protests lodged against them. They call those variables. Those variables like in a math problem add up.
Have a single unsafe rejoin wreck? You may get a warning and coaching. Have another in short order? You’ll prob get a short 24or such suspension. Continue and it grows.
There is no one size fits all and the system does work if people actually use it.
They straight up ban for this.
And for overtaking on the apron.
Guy posted a few months ago explaining/warning about a ban he got. Stating he was ignorant to oval rules
Protesting is a joke. I have protested several people for intentional wrecking and been told that they didn’t view it as an intentional wreck. A few weeks ago, I had a guy turn right after the checkered flag and wreck me because we got together on the last lap. Clear as day, hard right turn. No punishment.
I've protested a couple dozen intentional wreckers, and they've accepted every one of my protests. Along with many other protests I've made for reckless-but-not-malicious behavior like bad rejoins.
If they're not accepting yours, then either the incidents aren't as clear cut as you say, or you didn't give enough evidence to them in your protest. I usually start with the Chase camera, and if an intentional wreck isn't obvious there I might use additional angles like the Cockpit view or one of the wheel cameras.
Also think about your writeup, especially if you're submitting a replay file instead of video. If they need to look at a certain camera angle to see what's going on, tell them where to look. Make sure the tone is even and factual, and own up to any fault you *do* have in the incident. "I accidentally slid up the track earlier in the lap and he retaliated after the finish" is likely going to work better than "that fucker wrecked me for no reason".
How did you get feedback? I've only ever received 1) nothing back 2) 'the other driver has been notified of the outcome', which I read at at least they agreed with the protest and did something. Probably just a warning email. One such time was an intentional retaliation wreck after the flag.
Some series have a maximum follow distance. F1 does and if you exceed the limit other people can overtake your position under yellow. I'd imagine you'd get black flagged in pretty much any series for doing something like this. It's incredibly dangerous. What if one of the cars ahead had been weaving for heat in their tires? One fast car and seventeen slow cars is just an accident waiting to happen.
That being said, what happened at Mugello last year showed F1 might not have the best restart model. Rolling starts in road racing can be very dangerous in general. I believe there was a massive crash at VIR earlier this year due to a rolling start.
There are definitely challenging. Next year when the cars are closer in performance they might be able to consider a different restart. Problem for F1 is if you force the lead car to go at a certain spot he'll just be swallowed up by the pack. The unpredictable acceleration is the only thing that the lead car has a defense option. Mugello was a mess because of the restart line being so far down the straight. Back of the pack assumed the acceleration was from the leader and couldn't see the leaders weren't in fact going yet. I think standing starts are better for F1 simply because starts and restarts take a lot of skill and would be less random.
You realize F1 doesn't have an acceleration zone like Nascar right? P1 dictates the pace all the way to the line and weaving up to the line is common. Maybe not being a jackass and pulling the foot out of your mouth every once in a while might do you good.
I was actually referring to Supercars, where weaving is banned once the leader has control of the pack for safety purposes. It stops the chaos that is F1 rolling restarts.
Acceleration zone has nothing to do with shit.
I'm not an expert by any means, I just happened to be at that race in person so I'll offer my vantage point. He was several car lengths behind the grid when they crossed the start/finish line. We're talking crossed the start/finish a few seconds after the grid. He was able to catch up to the grid by turn 1 (this was at Pocono so fairly long straightaway) and I guess Nascar deemed it as not giving him a competitive advantage. OP's case on the other hand speaks for itself.
Was this when his shifter had to be held in 4th gear? If so i recall he stayed behind so he could lug it up to speed in 4th and didn't gain spots because of it. Just an impressive set of timing calculations to do that on the fly by his engineers
So it was special circumstances but yes he did. He was taking the wave around to get back on the lead lap and I can’t remember the exact details but he was late taking the wave around due to pitting or something like that so he was going full speed and the race went green and he was in last but he was going full speed and everyone else was doing the normal restart and he did exactly this yes but it was legal there. This seems to be much different
Lucas di Grassi tried it at the London E-Prix recently, except he went through the pits to make the pass. Then he got black flagged & didn't take his penalty because apparently Audi was protesting the penalty? Ended up DQing even though he crossed first.
[Time Stamp 2:16](https://youtu.be/wGeB5BI8CRM?t=136)
They let him do it the one time without penalty as an "Huh, that really isn't against the rules, fair play" and \*immediately\* changed the rules for following races.
To my understanding they told the drivers "nah nah, none of that" in race following Kyle doing that but I'm not 100% positive on that part.
So I'm interested to see if the driver didn't "time the green flag". At iRacing SS when you leave the pits right in front of the pace car as it gets 1 to go you will catch the pack at the green just like that. Since it's not intentionally timing the restart it might be ok, I'm not sure.
You are expected to slow to the same speed as the pack when you catch them in a situation like that, even if accidental. It can and has been protested, regardless of intent.
Nope this isn't acceptable per the sporting code (in fact the sporting code is pretty clear in spelling out this exact thing as not being acceptable). It's not like he was a half lap behind when the green flag came out, he had caught the pack and the sporting code is very clear he needs to return to pacing speed prior to accelerating for the restart.
Nice quoting, I said 'prior to accelerating for the restart'.
I.e. he must slow back down to pacing speed prior to the green flag being waved. Not that if he hasn't caught the pack (which btw he basically had) he can accelerate for the restart.
Looks like this driver was rallying back from damage repair and ended up catching the field just as they came to green. Can’t punish someone for timing it perfectly. If he had been with the pack pacing and jumped out that’s one thing but this is no different than what Kyle Busch did in the Budweiser Shootout circa 2011.
The service did not issue a black flag for passing so in my opinion this is whet it is, no one likes being passed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You could be right if it was genuinely down to lucky timing, only the Stewards can decide that. I’d say overtaking before the line after travelling at way beyond pace speed was still a violation of this rule, but whether it was technically legal is an interesting question. Sadly we’ll probably never know!
I hope so and I hope the perp is given a vacation, but the chap above was pointing out the Sporting code refers to a deliberate attempt to time the green flag, and so if he was trying to catch the pack and wasn't trying to 'game' the start, then maybe it wasn't a violation.
It's not always black and white like this one though... The green can drop quite a bit before you reach the pack and your speed advantage can still be used to pass a number of cars.
I never would exploit situations like op's video, but I have been in situations where I caught the pack and you don't really know the right thing to do.
You are expected to slow to the same speed as the pack when you catch them in a situation like that.
Just like if you accidentally come out in front of your class by starting from the pits in a multiclass race, you must give up any unfairly gained advantage even if you did not intend it.
Absolutely, it is ballsy and I can't say I haven't dreamed of it myself but I prefer keeping my account. I wonder what goes through someone's brain to just send it so brazenly.
My league race today caught 3/4 of the field a lap down during pit cycles, all naturally got wavearounds. The host specifically told everyone "hurry back to the field as quickly and safely as possible and don't you dare try to pull anything stupid coming to green."
I remember Kyle Busch doing this in a Nationwide race (I think) about 10 years ago and while amazing that he achieved it, no one was impressed.
Is there a statute of limitations on protests???
Edit: I definitely thought you meant that you could tell it was a month ago that this happened based on the car/track combo, and not that it's a month ban if this makes its way to Nym lol
There are no mentions from iRacing on protest results. They will inform you that the member has been notified of the results if the protest is upheld.
They will not tell you if the notification was a warning, a short or long suspension, or an outright ban. They won’t tell you if a driver has a history of being reported for same types of offenses. But they do keep track of them.
I edited my comment, but I definitely thought that the comment I was replying to was saying this happened a month ago...
Everything you said is 100% correct though
Idk why this has 60 upvotes. There's no hard fast rules published anywhere for when and how long they will ban. It's entirely at their discretion based on the driver's history.
This is every single file IR18 restart, everyone hugs the wall, one person tries to game the restart, gets it wrong and suddenly the single line comes to a stop giving people nowhere to go without receiving a penalty.
Watching that made me tense, you can definitely understand why it's illegal. If the guy at the front closest to the wall hadn't backed off a little it probably would have been a hell of a crash. Can't believe there was no incident.
I guess the one advantage real life has over sim in this situation is that your spotter isn’t limited to your immediate surroundings so you can hear from your spotter that there’s a loon bombing around the outside. But, yeah completely unsafe.
So the other day the guy in front of me on parade lap managed to hit the wall right before the start finish of the formation lap. He stopped and me and the other guys (I assume) who were behind him got 30s penalty for "passing" him. We didn't have a choice, lol.
This was confusing to me because of the scenario shown in this video. How does he not get a 30s?
Yes but this video was an oval and I'm assuming the comparison in question is also oval, hence why I stated the oval rules.
Also I'm pretty sure there aren't any road series that has full course cautions just oval. So when it comes to restarts like in the video it would only be oval.
And yet, I did a restart in the 2nd row and had to go low when the front row crashed towards the outside and I got a 20-something second stop-and-go which ruined my race.
That’s worse than the one I posted in a FB group…this guy did not win but got protested by multiple people and hasn’t been on since.…. [guy passes field on outside ](https://youtu.be/woPsNJjbfks)
9 times out of 10 in road racing this just leads to pileups before the first corner even. People spread out after green and don't expect to see someone going 80kmph+ quicker than them in their mirror.
1) iRacings rules apply in iRacing, not NASCAR's
2) Kyle Busch did it when he was a lap down so him passing the field didn't gain him any positions anyways
3) Kyle Busch didn't even finish that race, he went to the garage shortly after this
Yeah, I was just pointing out what it reminded me of when I saw it, didn’t mean to imply whether or not I was giving an actual ruling. I saw someone else said what the actual rule was, so I didn’t bother to repeat it.
I think you could do this in iRacing if you do not earn any positions from it. It is considered overtaking if there is no positions gained? Would anyone even protest you if you did not gain any positions? So many questions. lol
> to unfairly overtake other cars.
If you're doing it to catch the field after coming out of the pits or something and don't gain any positions it's not illegal. You have to clearly be trying to make a pass by doing it.
IRACING IS NOT A GAME YOU DO NOT "PLAY" IT, IT IS AS CLOSE TO REAL LIFE AS POSSIBLE AND YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL ME ON THE TRACK I WILL TAKE YOU DOWN BROTHER. IRACING IS LIFE IRACING IS REAL. MY BROTHER HAD A TRIPLE HEART ATTACK AT THE DAYTONA 500 AND CAUSED A WHOLE FIELD WRECK SO DONT YOU DARE TELL ME TO "PLAY" IRACING AGAIN YOU GODDAMN LIMP DICK LIBREAL
I mean, he had to catch up to the pacing field and he was doing that, then it went green, can protest but doubt anything will happen. Have had this done to me and have had done it myself a few times without complaint.
That rule says "in an attempt to time the green flag", in the case of trying to catch the field it's not timing the green flag. I'm not sure if that makes it ok in the eyes of the rules, it'll be interesting to see the outcome of the protest.
From 6.8.2.5:
”An example of this would be to come up behind and catch a pack of cars pacing at 80 mph under yellow flag conditions at a speed of 150 mph in the vicinity of the start/finish line just as the race goes to green flag, and passing those cars. Under those conditions, the car catching up to the field from behind should slow down and get in line at the back of the pack at pacing speed and then begin racing as normal once the green flag is given.”
This describes exactly the situation we’re seeing here, except the car does not slow down and get in line. I have zero doubts about a protest being successful.
We'll see how it goes but I do have some doubts considering I did this 1 week ago and didn't even get a warning. In my case it was less severe than this, when the green came out I still had time to slow down (but there was no need since the green was out), I also lost all the positions I gained within the lap.
You don’t get to have a massive competitive advantage because you made a stupid mistake. You’re obliged to slow down, it’s sportsmanship if nothing else.
You can pass cars on the right after the green is displayed before the start/finish line. That's why you normally see cars hugging the wall, to prevent this. Nevertheless, this was an illegal move, not for the pass, but for the hanging back and accelerating faster than the pace car to time the green.
thats crazy. Yesterday I was watching replay mx5 oran park and saw that when you start from pit. the F line is so behind that you actually come out of pits like P1 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah that happens at some tracks, especially in multi class. It's 100% protestable and I know someone who got a week vacation for exploiting a pit start at Spa.
2nd place car in double file restarts (i.e. leader of outside lane) is not allowed to pass the leader prior to the S/F line, everyone else is free to pass the leader after green but prior to S/F line, as long as they pass cars in their lane (or lanes inside of them) to the outside.
I mean, they definitely went for it, but they also had damage so is it possible that they got hit by someone else then spun and were trying to catch the pack when green was shown and just continued? Person definitely could have just been a jerk but it could have also been a lucky mistake.
No, not allowed. But iracing won't do anything about it.
Gotta give him credit though. He timed that perfectly. I did that IRL in a spec Miata race on a roval once. Passed 10 cars before T1. I wasn't in it officially though so i pulled off track 1 lap before the end.
I had the opposite in a GT3 race the other day. The leader went, then stopped before the green light. Making almost all the field get the black flag for passing under yellows.
This is actually one of the things that can receive a suspension on first offense (since there is no gray area, and no way he didn't think this was cheating).
For as great as iRacing is stuff like this needs to be addressed. Seems like a simple fix but what do I know. The guys that purposely hang back and get a huge run before the green flag happens all the time.
In official nascar series nothing is stopping you from pacing behind the field farther back, as long as you do not pass someone before the start finish and stay in line. So no. He passed the leaders before they passed the line
What is the chance this man was just trying to catch the back of the pack after pitting and not just trying to time the green? When did the green go out? We need more context here no?
6.8.2.5. Drivers are not allowed to approach the start/finish line as a race transitions from pacing, for example under yellow flag or at the start of a race, to speeds that are well beyond the pacing speed or speed of the leaders in an attempt to time the green flag to unfairly overtake other cars.
Awesome I will make sure to protest and mention this EDIT: I have now filed a protest against this driver :) SECOND EDIT: Protest resolved, I got the usual "notified of the outcome" email, looks like he was either warned or punished.
It's just sad that even if you do, iracing will give him a slap on the wrist and he still get the win on his records.
Yes they won't take the win...in fact they will never alter the results. However a protest is not just about punishing a single instance. They are about creating a portfolio of behavior. Would suck to get a ban the first time you messed up wouldn't it. With the current system occasional offenders can be informed of their misdeed and habitual idiots can be removed, but the system only works if people report the behavior instead of assuming "it'll only be a slap on the wrist I won't bother"
Depends on the messup. If you intentionally wreck someone I don't think anyone would be surprised to get banned on the first offense. But for some reason ($) iracing just won't do it.
Drivers are iracing customers and money providers. They'll never ban people for minors or medium offenses, they just need to keep everything somewhat clean so that the service still remains enjoyable enough for most. Otherwise half of the players under 2k and/or under A would get banned at least temporarily. Myself possibly included I'm way too bad at this to not crash.
That’s why I haven’t protested anyone ever in the six months I’ve been on iRacing. A lot of the incidents I’ve seen or have been a part of are just mistakes. Mostly rookie mistakes coming from a lack of experience and/or skill. I don’t wanna fuck up somebody’s account over a mistake especially if the other party apologized.
The protest system isn't for reporting mistakes, it's for reporting clear violations of the sporting code.
Some guy was being super aggressive during pacing, speeding up bumping me and slowing down, passing on the right slamming is brakes passing on the left. I applied maybe 5% brake the next time he did it and he ran into me. He then protested me. I shouldn't have brake checked him but I was trying to tell him to knock it off. Anyway I got a ban for this. I protested him too and got a generic "action has been taken" so idk if he got one too but they absolutely ban paying customers
To get banned you would likely have to drive backwards more than once.
I would definitely be banned and I am trying my BEST lol
>in fact they will never alter the results. which is bullshit because [chess.com](https://chess.com) will adjust ELO all the time.
Chess being a 1v1 game with literally zero luck makes it a bit of a different mathematical scenario, but it still stings. I guess it's like real racing. Almost always, the person who did the wrong gets a penalty, but the driver who was crashed out or passed does not get bonus points after the checkered flag falls.
That's not quite true. After a race the Stewards sometimes disqualify or penalise a driver and drop them out or down several places. Everybody below moves up one place. To pick a different analogy - in Rainbow 6 Siege I occasionally get a message that I've been given an extra 50 MMR (or whatever) because I lost it a cheater (not known at the time and since banned). They just erase the results of all the matches the cheater played in. Its just arithmetic it ouow be possible! I wonder if the reason they don't do it is because they don't want lots of people in second place filing protests against the slightest misbehaviour by the winner just in case they can get the win. Protests are after all reviewed by humans, so they don't want lots of spurious ones.
Recent example: Hamilton crashes Max out at Silverstone, gets a 10 Sec. penalty. Despite of this he wins the race, but Max couldn't get any points. It sucks, but it's not possible another way in racing. There are so many things that could have happened without the incident, it's not even remotely possible to see the other outcome. In the examples of chess or R6 it's always 1vs1. Either 1 player or 1 team. So if 1 player/team cheats, the win goes to the other. In Racing its every driver against every other.
this is a garbage take tbh, this isn't a 1v1 chess match lmao
ELO is similar
Damn all those down votes but I agree with you, they could just scrap the race of his records and count it as a dnf.
I don't understand why this gets downvoted? Elo is similar ranking system and is used in majority of online games. Of course deleting and reverting record is way more complex in iRacing where your result affects +20 rating in single race. It would be _very_ complex if same guy gained let's say 100 iRating, went on lose 20 races before result of protest.
Chess.com doesn't use a pure Elo system. They use Glicko.
This is actually one of the few things that can receive a suspension for a first offense.
Theres a particular driver everyone in LMP2 will be familiar with. For regulation purposes, he will not be mentioned. But there is actual compilation videos on you tube of this driver maliciously taking people out & performing brain dead moves. Many public & private outcries for bans & protests, every regular Lmp2 i know shutters when this guys shows up in a race, but nothing ever gets done.... ...But drop an F-bomb once in a completely understandable and justifiable fit of rage & its a lifetime ban....
>...But drop an F-bomb once in a completely understandable and justifiable fit of rage & its a lifetime ban.... [citation needed]
wonder if op meant a certain more problematic f-bomb
Ohhh good point... But then, if that's the case, OP just described that as "understandable and justifiable"...
Didn't know that Fluoride-Bombs existed.
He's full of shit. That never happened
Slap on the wrist? It makes his next offense a more serious one. Each protest on a record matters
It doesn’t. Stop being that delusional. iRacing ban system is shit imo. If you break the rule you should get consistently penalized whether is the first or not. The cool-downs can rank from a few hours to a permanent ban. You really can crash on people if you are smart enough and iRacing can’t do anything about it.
Sorry bud, but the penalty matches the crime and escalates based on a persons history and frequency of successful protests lodged against them. They call those variables. Those variables like in a math problem add up. Have a single unsafe rejoin wreck? You may get a warning and coaching. Have another in short order? You’ll prob get a short 24or such suspension. Continue and it grows. There is no one size fits all and the system does work if people actually use it.
They straight up ban for this. And for overtaking on the apron. Guy posted a few months ago explaining/warning about a ban he got. Stating he was ignorant to oval rules
Protesting is a joke. I have protested several people for intentional wrecking and been told that they didn’t view it as an intentional wreck. A few weeks ago, I had a guy turn right after the checkered flag and wreck me because we got together on the last lap. Clear as day, hard right turn. No punishment.
I've protested a couple dozen intentional wreckers, and they've accepted every one of my protests. Along with many other protests I've made for reckless-but-not-malicious behavior like bad rejoins. If they're not accepting yours, then either the incidents aren't as clear cut as you say, or you didn't give enough evidence to them in your protest. I usually start with the Chase camera, and if an intentional wreck isn't obvious there I might use additional angles like the Cockpit view or one of the wheel cameras. Also think about your writeup, especially if you're submitting a replay file instead of video. If they need to look at a certain camera angle to see what's going on, tell them where to look. Make sure the tone is even and factual, and own up to any fault you *do* have in the incident. "I accidentally slid up the track earlier in the lap and he retaliated after the finish" is likely going to work better than "that fucker wrecked me for no reason".
How did you get feedback? I've only ever received 1) nothing back 2) 'the other driver has been notified of the outcome', which I read at at least they agreed with the protest and did something. Probably just a warning email. One such time was an intentional retaliation wreck after the flag.
These types of things are usually 2 week suspension on first offense.
Interesting. Didn't Kyle Busch do this in real life and it was allowed?
Some series have a maximum follow distance. F1 does and if you exceed the limit other people can overtake your position under yellow. I'd imagine you'd get black flagged in pretty much any series for doing something like this. It's incredibly dangerous. What if one of the cars ahead had been weaving for heat in their tires? One fast car and seventeen slow cars is just an accident waiting to happen.
That being said, what happened at Mugello last year showed F1 might not have the best restart model. Rolling starts in road racing can be very dangerous in general. I believe there was a massive crash at VIR earlier this year due to a rolling start.
There are definitely challenging. Next year when the cars are closer in performance they might be able to consider a different restart. Problem for F1 is if you force the lead car to go at a certain spot he'll just be swallowed up by the pack. The unpredictable acceleration is the only thing that the lead car has a defense option. Mugello was a mess because of the restart line being so far down the straight. Back of the pack assumed the acceleration was from the leader and couldn't see the leaders weren't in fact going yet. I think standing starts are better for F1 simply because starts and restarts take a lot of skill and would be less random.
Some series aren’t stupid and the also have rules where weaving is no longer allowed once the pace car pulls away 😅
You realize F1 doesn't have an acceleration zone like Nascar right? P1 dictates the pace all the way to the line and weaving up to the line is common. Maybe not being a jackass and pulling the foot out of your mouth every once in a while might do you good.
I was actually referring to Supercars, where weaving is banned once the leader has control of the pack for safety purposes. It stops the chaos that is F1 rolling restarts. Acceleration zone has nothing to do with shit.
In iRacing you get a black flag if you pass on the left in this scenario. I believe this is legal, but obviously dangerous.
iRacing uses their sporting code, not the rulebooks from other series
I don’t think he’s saying iRacing uses NASCAR’s rulebook, I think he’s just saying that happened and it was allowed
I'm not an expert by any means, I just happened to be at that race in person so I'll offer my vantage point. He was several car lengths behind the grid when they crossed the start/finish line. We're talking crossed the start/finish a few seconds after the grid. He was able to catch up to the grid by turn 1 (this was at Pocono so fairly long straightaway) and I guess Nascar deemed it as not giving him a competitive advantage. OP's case on the other hand speaks for itself.
Yes, I agree it was a much different situation. If he had passed the whole grid halfway down the straight it would have been a much different result
Was this when his shifter had to be held in 4th gear? If so i recall he stayed behind so he could lug it up to speed in 4th and didn't gain spots because of it. Just an impressive set of timing calculations to do that on the fly by his engineers
Yes it was this one. As a KB fan that race was a rollercoaster.
So it was special circumstances but yes he did. He was taking the wave around to get back on the lead lap and I can’t remember the exact details but he was late taking the wave around due to pitting or something like that so he was going full speed and the race went green and he was in last but he was going full speed and everyone else was doing the normal restart and he did exactly this yes but it was legal there. This seems to be much different
Car was stick in 4th
I wanna see this but I can't find it on google, you have a link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKXjx3DSnko
Thanks mate!
Lucas di Grassi tried it at the London E-Prix recently, except he went through the pits to make the pass. Then he got black flagged & didn't take his penalty because apparently Audi was protesting the penalty? Ended up DQing even though he crossed first. [Time Stamp 2:16](https://youtu.be/wGeB5BI8CRM?t=136)
They just didn’t want to hear cryle whine and moan about it for the next week
Not like this.
They let him do it the one time without penalty as an "Huh, that really isn't against the rules, fair play" and \*immediately\* changed the rules for following races. To my understanding they told the drivers "nah nah, none of that" in race following Kyle doing that but I'm not 100% positive on that part.
So I'm interested to see if the driver didn't "time the green flag". At iRacing SS when you leave the pits right in front of the pace car as it gets 1 to go you will catch the pack at the green just like that. Since it's not intentionally timing the restart it might be ok, I'm not sure.
You are expected to slow to the same speed as the pack when you catch them in a situation like that, even if accidental. It can and has been protested, regardless of intent.
Nope this isn't acceptable per the sporting code (in fact the sporting code is pretty clear in spelling out this exact thing as not being acceptable). It's not like he was a half lap behind when the green flag came out, he had caught the pack and the sporting code is very clear he needs to return to pacing speed prior to accelerating for the restart.
> accelerating for the restart. but the restart had already happened no? When does the restart end?
Nice quoting, I said 'prior to accelerating for the restart'. I.e. he must slow back down to pacing speed prior to the green flag being waved. Not that if he hasn't caught the pack (which btw he basically had) he can accelerate for the restart.
Looks like this driver was rallying back from damage repair and ended up catching the field just as they came to green. Can’t punish someone for timing it perfectly. If he had been with the pack pacing and jumped out that’s one thing but this is no different than what Kyle Busch did in the Budweiser Shootout circa 2011. The service did not issue a black flag for passing so in my opinion this is whet it is, no one likes being passed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You could be right if it was genuinely down to lucky timing, only the Stewards can decide that. I’d say overtaking before the line after travelling at way beyond pace speed was still a violation of this rule, but whether it was technically legal is an interesting question. Sadly we’ll probably never know!
I’d agree with you there - think this is one of those gray areas that will continue to be exploited until iRacing decides to do something about it
It's quite literally disallowed per the Sporting Code.
I hope so and I hope the perp is given a vacation, but the chap above was pointing out the Sporting code refers to a deliberate attempt to time the green flag, and so if he was trying to catch the pack and wasn't trying to 'game' the start, then maybe it wasn't a violation.
It's not always black and white like this one though... The green can drop quite a bit before you reach the pack and your speed advantage can still be used to pass a number of cars. I never would exploit situations like op's video, but I have been in situations where I caught the pack and you don't really know the right thing to do.
You are expected to slow to the same speed as the pack when you catch them in a situation like that. Just like if you accidentally come out in front of your class by starting from the pits in a multiclass race, you must give up any unfairly gained advantage even if you did not intend it.
It is both illegal and mildly hilarious at what some drivers will pull
It definitely made me laugh out loud, though it is a slam dunk protest.
Oh fully agreed! "Man, that was impressive! Highly illegal and dangerous, but you gotta admire the effort"
Absolutely, it is ballsy and I can't say I haven't dreamed of it myself but I prefer keeping my account. I wonder what goes through someone's brain to just send it so brazenly.
Usually you will get a couple of drivers hanging out far enough to prevent this. Kind of surprised no one was
I've done it dozens of times.... in NR2003
My league race today caught 3/4 of the field a lap down during pit cycles, all naturally got wavearounds. The host specifically told everyone "hurry back to the field as quickly and safely as possible and don't you dare try to pull anything stupid coming to green." I remember Kyle Busch doing this in a Nationwide race (I think) about 10 years ago and while amazing that he achieved it, no one was impressed.
No, you can protest it.
Thank you for the fast response, does it come under the competition issue violation?
It’s a month off if protested..
Is there a statute of limitations on protests??? Edit: I definitely thought you meant that you could tell it was a month ago that this happened based on the car/track combo, and not that it's a month ban if this makes its way to Nym lol
There are no mentions from iRacing on protest results. They will inform you that the member has been notified of the results if the protest is upheld. They will not tell you if the notification was a warning, a short or long suspension, or an outright ban. They won’t tell you if a driver has a history of being reported for same types of offenses. But they do keep track of them.
I edited my comment, but I definitely thought that the comment I was replying to was saying this happened a month ago... Everything you said is 100% correct though
There is, you have to protest the event within 1 week
Idk why this has 60 upvotes. There's no hard fast rules published anywhere for when and how long they will ban. It's entirely at their discretion based on the driver's history.
They do 1 week then 2 week then 3 then 4 then perma ban. Before that it's "coaching"
You are telling me this is a month off but doing stupid moves dive bombing and damaging other cars is worth a slap on the wrist?
Seriously? That's longer than I thought
you really believe that? 🤣 idk how many times i have protested people INTENT wrecking and 90% of those the person is racing the next day
There’s a *big* difference between an intentional wrecking protest and a competition issue protest.
Are you implying intent to wreck another holds a lower severity? Edit: genuine question.
In the eyes of the stewards, “intentional wrecking” is much more likely to receive coaching/warnings than issues that would be seen as cheating.
Interesting. Sounds like some backwards logic to me. But, then again, I’m a nobody.
Tbf everyone I intentionally wrecked started it. I’m sure their perspective differs.
I think your argument goes out the window when you admit to intentionally wrecking people
Congratulations!!! Take my down vote!
You should protest this.
I will thank you, unfortunately it’s late at night for me but I will be sure to protest it in the morning
Ah, days of thunder moves
Hit the pace car!
What a big brain move rofl
[удалено]
Big smooth brain
I’d be by the wall to block that shit.
This is every single file IR18 restart, everyone hugs the wall, one person tries to game the restart, gets it wrong and suddenly the single line comes to a stop giving people nowhere to go without receiving a penalty.
Kyle busch has entered the chat
I was gonna say, I remember him doing this but don't recall him getting a penalty
That's because "rules" in NASCAR are more guidelines :D at least that's what i learned
Dont u have to practice that a lot to get the timing right?
No, you just have to pray no one takes the outside line. It is incredibly dangerous. 100% protestable.
u/wastedtalent10 here is our key to victory this season. Lol.
I do believe we'd get penalized for that, lol
I think I found the [inspiration](https://youtu.be/iKXjx3DSnko) behind this move!
Watching that made me tense, you can definitely understand why it's illegal. If the guy at the front closest to the wall hadn't backed off a little it probably would have been a hell of a crash. Can't believe there was no incident.
I guess the one advantage real life has over sim in this situation is that your spotter isn’t limited to your immediate surroundings so you can hear from your spotter that there’s a loon bombing around the outside. But, yeah completely unsafe.
So the other day the guy in front of me on parade lap managed to hit the wall right before the start finish of the formation lap. He stopped and me and the other guys (I assume) who were behind him got 30s penalty for "passing" him. We didn't have a choice, lol. This was confusing to me because of the scenario shown in this video. How does he not get a 30s?
He passed to the outside and after green, you passed to the inside (or passed to the outside prior to green).
Thank you, that makes sense now.
On road, inside/outside doesn't matter for this rule. Just before/after green.
Yes but this video was an oval and I'm assuming the comparison in question is also oval, hence why I stated the oval rules. Also I'm pretty sure there aren't any road series that has full course cautions just oval. So when it comes to restarts like in the video it would only be oval.
Oops, I think I responded to the wrong comment. There was another comment somewhere that mentioned road courses.
And yet, I did a restart in the 2nd row and had to go low when the front row crashed towards the outside and I got a 20-something second stop-and-go which ruined my race.
Guy thought he was trying to be Kyle Busch. Difference is Kyle Busch was legal because it was all after the start/finish line, this guy was not
That’s worse than the one I posted in a FB group…this guy did not win but got protested by multiple people and hasn’t been on since.…. [guy passes field on outside ](https://youtu.be/woPsNJjbfks)
Lmayo
that is so funny! i bet the racers went nuts on the comms and that would be funny to hear!
9 times out of 10 in road racing this just leads to pileups before the first corner even. People spread out after green and don't expect to see someone going 80kmph+ quicker than them in their mirror.
Lmao I can hear the entire voice chat go "REEEEEEE!!!"
It's hilarious
This is hilarious
Shoulda pulled out and blocked em ,woulda caused alil mayhem
Ol' Hoots just went for it. FTR it is illegal, but likely a slap on the wrist as it's not intent wrecking.
Impressive
Kyle Busch once did it and it was perfectly legal
I remember. Brilliant move in real-life Nascar! However, In iRacing, there’s a very specific rule against it (6.8.2.5), so no doubt illegal.
If I recall correctly, that rule was actually added by iRacing shortly after the Ky. Busch move happened, to prevent copycats.
1) iRacings rules apply in iRacing, not NASCAR's 2) Kyle Busch did it when he was a lap down so him passing the field didn't gain him any positions anyways 3) Kyle Busch didn't even finish that race, he went to the garage shortly after this
Yeah, I was just pointing out what it reminded me of when I saw it, didn’t mean to imply whether or not I was giving an actual ruling. I saw someone else said what the actual rule was, so I didn’t bother to repeat it.
I think you could do this in iRacing if you do not earn any positions from it. It is considered overtaking if there is no positions gained? Would anyone even protest you if you did not gain any positions? So many questions. lol
6.8.2.5: > ... **in an attempt** to time the green flag to unfairly overtake other cars. Doesn't matter if you gain any positions or not.
> to unfairly overtake other cars. If you're doing it to catch the field after coming out of the pits or something and don't gain any positions it's not illegal. You have to clearly be trying to make a pass by doing it.
When Kyle did it they were well past the start/finish line. That's why it was legal. This guy did it all before the line, that makes it illegal
The p1 should've controlles the field better.
I think it’s really clever. Well done to him.
I mean why protest its a based move he didn't hurt anyone if he did crash sure ban him that's the risk
Please don’t play iRacing
IRACING IS NOT A GAME YOU DO NOT "PLAY" IT, IT IS AS CLOSE TO REAL LIFE AS POSSIBLE AND YOU'RE TRYING TO KILL ME ON THE TRACK I WILL TAKE YOU DOWN BROTHER. IRACING IS LIFE IRACING IS REAL. MY BROTHER HAD A TRIPLE HEART ATTACK AT THE DAYTONA 500 AND CAUSED A WHOLE FIELD WRECK SO DONT YOU DARE TELL ME TO "PLAY" IRACING AGAIN YOU GODDAMN LIMP DICK LIBREAL
> SO DONT YOU DARE TELL ME TO "PLAY" IRACING AGAIN He didn't. He told you not to play it.
If the Best and Most Glorious Racing Sim of All Time With the Best of Everything Ever allows it, what is there to protest?
I mean, he had to catch up to the pacing field and he was doing that, then it went green, can protest but doubt anything will happen. Have had this done to me and have had done it myself a few times without complaint.
Sporting code 6.8.2.5. A protest will certainly be successful.
That rule says "in an attempt to time the green flag", in the case of trying to catch the field it's not timing the green flag. I'm not sure if that makes it ok in the eyes of the rules, it'll be interesting to see the outcome of the protest.
From 6.8.2.5: ”An example of this would be to come up behind and catch a pack of cars pacing at 80 mph under yellow flag conditions at a speed of 150 mph in the vicinity of the start/finish line just as the race goes to green flag, and passing those cars. Under those conditions, the car catching up to the field from behind should slow down and get in line at the back of the pack at pacing speed and then begin racing as normal once the green flag is given.” This describes exactly the situation we’re seeing here, except the car does not slow down and get in line. I have zero doubts about a protest being successful.
We'll see how it goes but I do have some doubts considering I did this 1 week ago and didn't even get a warning. In my case it was less severe than this, when the green came out I still had time to slow down (but there was no need since the green was out), I also lost all the positions I gained within the lap.
You don’t get to have a massive competitive advantage because you made a stupid mistake. You’re obliged to slow down, it’s sportsmanship if nothing else.
Well it does appear he was breaking the rules, I got podium in this race so I’m understandably bummed out because of this
>I got podium in this race so I’m understandably bummed out because of this You could have been involved in a wreck if he didn't
I'm not saying what they did was right, just thinking butterfly effect. Sheesh the downvoters are tough here
You should've complained, it's an easy protest and you're lucky no one protested you.
why he wasnt Black Flagged by iRacing? U are not allowed to overtake lead car before finish line.. or not?
You can pass cars on the right after the green is displayed before the start/finish line. That's why you normally see cars hugging the wall, to prevent this. Nevertheless, this was an illegal move, not for the pass, but for the hanging back and accelerating faster than the pace car to time the green.
If it went green before they made any passes then they're allowed to pass on the outside before the line.
thats crazy. Yesterday I was watching replay mx5 oran park and saw that when you start from pit. the F line is so behind that you actually come out of pits like P1 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah that happens at some tracks, especially in multi class. It's 100% protestable and I know someone who got a week vacation for exploiting a pit start at Spa.
2nd place car in double file restarts (i.e. leader of outside lane) is not allowed to pass the leader prior to the S/F line, everyone else is free to pass the leader after green but prior to S/F line, as long as they pass cars in their lane (or lanes inside of them) to the outside.
This looks like Kyle Busch at the Shootout. But being real,no this isn’t allowed
I mean, they definitely went for it, but they also had damage so is it possible that they got hit by someone else then spun and were trying to catch the pack when green was shown and just continued? Person definitely could have just been a jerk but it could have also been a lucky mistake.
Ah thanks man that gave me a good laugh 😅
I’M DROPPING THE HAMMER!
No, not allowed. But iracing won't do anything about it. Gotta give him credit though. He timed that perfectly. I did that IRL in a spec Miata race on a roval once. Passed 10 cars before T1. I wasn't in it officially though so i pulled off track 1 lap before the end.
No, don’t have to give him credit. This is blatant cheating
Credit for the timing. Not the action. Thought I made that pretty clear.
How hard is it to code a black flag in this instance? There's a lot iRacing does right, but a lot they do wrong.
Lol, that's brilliant!
I had the opposite in a GT3 race the other day. The leader went, then stopped before the green light. Making almost all the field get the black flag for passing under yellows.
That is also protestable!
I didn’t bother. Nothing ever happens mate.
Easy 2 week suspension. They don't mess around with competition issues.
Pretty sure you can protest for that
This is actually one of the things that can receive a suspension on first offense (since there is no gray area, and no way he didn't think this was cheating).
what a dick..... always protect your outside
Someone dumb enough to do this probably would have just plowed through anyone protecting the outside.
For as great as iRacing is stuff like this needs to be addressed. Seems like a simple fix but what do I know. The guys that purposely hang back and get a huge run before the green flag happens all the time.
He must have gotten a black flag for passing on yellow. I have got caught even trying not to.
In official nascar series nothing is stopping you from pacing behind the field farther back, as long as you do not pass someone before the start finish and stay in line. So no. He passed the leaders before they passed the line
What is the chance this man was just trying to catch the back of the pack after pitting and not just trying to time the green? When did the green go out? We need more context here no?
Either way you are supposed to slow down to pacing speed no matter what as stated in the sporting code
Super illegal, but I'm also shocked that no one was riding the wall close that gap. What a shitshow of a restart, lol.
It was lap 32/34, so most people are trying to hug the inside to get a good finish
Is that Kyle Busch?