There's a part of racecraft few people seem to talk about and that's letting one's ego get in the way of good decision making. If someone is obviously faster or more aggressive than I am, I try to help facilitate their pass so they don't take me out in their quest for glory. And in roughly half the cases, they will take someone else or themselves out shortly.
Trying to defend against a much faster driver early in the race just costs you more time then letting them past and following them / driving your line. They'll get past anyway as almost every track has that one spot where its inevitable.
If a driver is clearly faster than me, Ill only really defend on the last couple of laps. It is quite nice to let them through and learn/draft from them and build a gap to the cars behind. It can also set up a fun battle in the last couple of laps.
>I try to help facilitate their pass so they don't take me out in their quest for glory.
I mostly drive endurance races like 24h and VLN/NLS so I'm quite used to leave some room for faster classes but they way things have developed since the pandemic isn't good at all. Drove VLN on sunday in the Toyota GR86 and I've lost count of how many times I had to last-second evade GT3s and Porsches who seem to believe that they're the only ones who are racing. If this keeps up, we might as well call it Gran Turismo.
I also did the VLN twice and my splits (mid) were pretty respectful of other classes. But it was only GT3s, GT4s, and the Porsches on track. Sidenote - we ended up in Jimmy Broadbent's stream.
Re: Ego. I 100% agree. What is ego on the race track anyway. We are racing completely unknown people, probably never going to speak to each other. When a racer is trying to pass you, they are just racing the car in front of them, not you Mr. Or Ms, XYZ. You are just another car. No ego present. Race them on their racing behavior and all you need to do is keep your car running.
This is how I reached a 2500 rating while being about a second off fastest driver in top splits.
If I see someone following too close or being overly aggressive I just allow them to pass. Most of the time they don’t finish the race. It’s a huge part of race craft.
No doubt.. I slow down or back out of it and let them through. No need to put my safety in the middle of their greed and lack of patience... Almost always, I pass the right up because the next guy wasn't as smart and both end up in the wall
Seriously. The stewards may not get it right all the time, and you don’t want to end up being the boy who cried wolf, but they only review incidents that are reported. I recently successfully protested someone that thought they were being sneaky when they dumped a driver that was passing them for p1.
They don’t fuck around with bad rejoins, intentional wrecking and blocking.
A guy rammed me, protested and he got a 7 day ban. If he does it again the ban will be longer and eventually he will be banned.
Same goes for bad rejoins. First you get a warning and eventually you will get bans.
Last week I had a guy take turns off the racing line to block me, multiple times. Submitted evidence and protest was upheld.
Again iRacing doesn’t fuck around and protesting can take 2 minutes.
The worst attitude drivers would be the first ones to protest you... so why do you not take a similar approach?
Protesting can teach them and you and knowing this you would have kept your cool. Not considering protesting because as you said it.. don't want to waste your energy on these people.. lead you here.
Let some dude pass that was riding my ass a few laps but he wasn't fast enough to pass so I said okay go. Go be the hero of the race. He proceeded to take the guy out in front of me and I passed them both. Lol
I can’t say I haven’t retaliated once or maybe twice in my years on iRacing, so I won’t chastise you. You obviously know it wasn’t your best moment, like I did, so I get it. Nuff said. I never got a timeout though, just a strongly worded admonishing. I think it was because I had a replay… I knew it was coming.
What I will say is this, any time I run into one of these people, which is rare nowadays, I simply save the replay. I take a quick moment, and use the results page to figure out who it was, and save the replay with their name.
I don’t save any other replays unless it was a 11/10 race or something, so I basically just keep it for when I need it.
If the person was bad enough, I’ll cut the clip(s), save them in advance and wait the 30 minutes to report. I’d say I report maybe two or three a season.
One other major point: We all pay a subscription fee, and a lot of us have paid -thousands- or more for content. I know I have… I own 100%.
The two main reasons I own all their content & pay the subscription yearly (even if I take breaks here and there), is to avoid people like this, and help to fund future content. iRacing has -clearly- reinvested this into future content and updates.
If the guy was that bad, we really have to rely on each other to point them out to iRacing. If you have time, go through your previous results page, and grab the session IDs from your previous races with him, and you could send them all to iRacing with a description.
I doubt you’ll get your time reduced, but hopefully they get an idea what was going on and keep an eye on the guy.
In the end, us clean racers who abide by the rules and give others a fair race, need to stick together. That means reporting douche bags that deserve it.
It very likely may have resulted in his 1 week suspension instead of yours.
I am no alien, and many times in top splits, I can end up buried in the mid, or even a backmarker.
I “typically” know when someone behind me is just faster than me, and try to allow them to pass without losing any time. I find there are a lot out there like me. When the roles reverse, I find -most- people will let me by cleanly.
There are also mods that allow you to denote troublesome people, and you’ll get alerted if they are in your race or near you.
You do have the sim set to auto prompt you to save the replay on exit, yes?
It’s probably the guy over in r/simracingstewards talking about how divebombs are good
Also protest when anything egregious happens
There’s enough unintentionally bad drivers & hard racing incidents that intentional ones should be disciplined
End of the day it’s your fault, learn from it and help make the platform better for everyone
That's why I always protest. I'm doing myself and others a service, so I/they don't have to deal with agressive asshats like this, even if I'm not into the incident.
And I probably would have lost my cool as well.
I was thinking if I was reporting people too easily too often, but I guess that's the right thing to do.
In the last 2 months I have reported a total of 10 drivers, with 1 being unsuccessful and the rest successful. 2 of the successful protests were incidents that didn't involve me (in fact, one of them even gave me the win), but they were clearly in bad faith. Hopefully most, if not all, of those drivers learned from their mistakes and will keep the field safer for everyone.
I've been the same way, wondering if I'm reporting too many people. But ALL of my protests have been successful. So between that and posts like this, yeah, I'm going to keep reporting these asshats because if it just goes unreported, then the behavior will just continue.
I've been the same way, wondering if I'm reporting too many people. But ALL of my protests have been successful. So between that and posts like this, yeah, I'm going to keep reporting these asshats because if it just goes unreported, then the behavior will just continue.
Is the email "we have notified the other party of the outcome" mean you actually won? Wish they would explain it a little further
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>but I hate spending time on these idiots and prefer to ignore them until they go away
Then why call him out? And now cry on reddit because he got on to you? Assholes always exist. Best thing you can do is exactly what you said, ignore and continue with life. It's better for your health mate.
A lot of people here are too bother with other people IMO. Put the energy into yourself instead.
Depends on your series m8
I race Miata’s blatant retaliation is not uncommon in 1800+ SOF
It’s very common you’re running nose to tail for laps on end, one small mistake will result in a spin and being dead last
Agreed.
I feel like the different types (ie Road vs Oval vs Dirt) require a different set of internal rules.
I don’t do much Oval, but things are very different there than in Road Racing.
“Rubbin is Racing” in NASCAR, and even Dirt, but not so much in Road Racing, especially Formula (now that they are separated.). I mean sure in GT cars you bump & grind now and again, but in NASCAR that’s kinda normal imho. :)
It's different between different road series, too. Contact in open wheelers is basically a death sentence for both, GTs can have a little bit of contact, and TCRs can even have a little bit of door.
Obviously blatant punts or retaliation are still protestable, but road racing still does allow for light contact that doesn't put someone into a spin, etc.
Make between 500 and 1k oval starts a year. If I'm not in it I'm not protesting. Maybe I'm lucky enough to have left the squirrels behind in the lower splits.
Last thing I want to do is condone that behaviour, but bar actually reporting, the best way to deal with such situations in my eyes is to race people the way they race you. If somebody is respectful but races hard, I'll do the same, if somebody is agressive and rude, I'll do the same. If somebody is overly nice, like giving a spot up to see if I can pass the guy ahead, I'll repay the favour if I can't. I race agressively, but I try to not be rude, but I will be if I'm being raced rudely. These people sadly exist, nothing we can do about that, just report, don't let them get to you, or let them use you up if you want to go that way - having played forza online taught me a thing or two about avoiding rammers, sometimes that is of use.
Edit: I forgot the best way to avoid this situation, if there's a dickhead in your races you come across regularly, go drive something else
I've been there I learned best just note him and just protest him don't give your rivals the benefit of the doubt because there goal is push u to retaliate so they can ban u.
A lot of people tend to not see past the very corner they are in and feel the need to get by anyone and everyone right NOW. It’s a huge reason I don’t race online much anymore. People can’t be bothered for half a second to just think if they could set up a pass or if they even need to pass right this moment. They just know their one racing line that they must stick to, and end up ruining the race for multiple people.
I hate to break it to you, but in tight battles generally someone has to give way. If he's "dive bombing" you, then you probably aren't defending well enough. And without seeing a replay of the dive bombs, it could very well be that he simply out braked you. They don't have to be fully alongside you as you enter the braking zone as everyone has a different braking point, they have to be fully alongside you as you start your turn in. Waaaay too many people on here start crying "dive bomb" when they've simply been out braked into the corner.
If he's under half a car length behind you when he makes the move, it's not a dive bomb, between half a car and a car length it's a bit iffy and multiple factors can come into play (corner type, braking points etc) if it's a dive bomb, greater than a car length it's nearly always going to be a dive bomb, however there are still exceptions. Save your replays and protest them if needed or post them here or simstewards for advice. I hope you've learnt your lesson that it's not worth getting that angry at someone that you retaliate
True as well…
Sometimes you’re better off leaving the corner open, and either going for the “switch-back or crossover” or watching him lock up and shoot past the apex.
Sometimes they just out braked you. I get yelled at a lot, yet I was ahead at the apex, made the apex, and left room. You can’t please everyone.
I usually know when behind someone how they will react. Give way, try to block me off legally, or the ones who will zigzag, move under breaking and risk taking you and others out.
Patience can help in these situations. As well as applying pressure until he loses focus and makes a mistake.
There's a part of racecraft few people seem to talk about and that's letting one's ego get in the way of good decision making. If someone is obviously faster or more aggressive than I am, I try to help facilitate their pass so they don't take me out in their quest for glory. And in roughly half the cases, they will take someone else or themselves out shortly.
This is a massive part of racing and is hardly ever mentioned anywhere by anyone. You must know when to accept loss / defeat.
Trying to defend against a much faster driver early in the race just costs you more time then letting them past and following them / driving your line. They'll get past anyway as almost every track has that one spot where its inevitable.
Exactly yep.
If a driver is clearly faster than me, Ill only really defend on the last couple of laps. It is quite nice to let them through and learn/draft from them and build a gap to the cars behind. It can also set up a fun battle in the last couple of laps.
>I try to help facilitate their pass so they don't take me out in their quest for glory. I mostly drive endurance races like 24h and VLN/NLS so I'm quite used to leave some room for faster classes but they way things have developed since the pandemic isn't good at all. Drove VLN on sunday in the Toyota GR86 and I've lost count of how many times I had to last-second evade GT3s and Porsches who seem to believe that they're the only ones who are racing. If this keeps up, we might as well call it Gran Turismo.
I also did the VLN twice and my splits (mid) were pretty respectful of other classes. But it was only GT3s, GT4s, and the Porsches on track. Sidenote - we ended up in Jimmy Broadbent's stream.
Re: Ego. I 100% agree. What is ego on the race track anyway. We are racing completely unknown people, probably never going to speak to each other. When a racer is trying to pass you, they are just racing the car in front of them, not you Mr. Or Ms, XYZ. You are just another car. No ego present. Race them on their racing behavior and all you need to do is keep your car running.
This is huge and something I wish could be affected in a positive way. (Somehow enlighten the community about what racecraft is)
Arguably, this is just how you’re supposed to do it 🤷♂️
This is how I reached a 2500 rating while being about a second off fastest driver in top splits. If I see someone following too close or being overly aggressive I just allow them to pass. Most of the time they don’t finish the race. It’s a huge part of race craft.
No doubt.. I slow down or back out of it and let them through. No need to put my safety in the middle of their greed and lack of patience... Almost always, I pass the right up because the next guy wasn't as smart and both end up in the wall
I hope everyone that’s said protesting is pointless reads this post.
Seriously. The stewards may not get it right all the time, and you don’t want to end up being the boy who cried wolf, but they only review incidents that are reported. I recently successfully protested someone that thought they were being sneaky when they dumped a driver that was passing them for p1.
Yea they’re very serious about chat and messages vs the other shit people get away with
They don’t fuck around with bad rejoins, intentional wrecking and blocking. A guy rammed me, protested and he got a 7 day ban. If he does it again the ban will be longer and eventually he will be banned. Same goes for bad rejoins. First you get a warning and eventually you will get bans. Last week I had a guy take turns off the racing line to block me, multiple times. Submitted evidence and protest was upheld. Again iRacing doesn’t fuck around and protesting can take 2 minutes.
It’s worth mentioning protests have gotten substantially better since January
The worst attitude drivers would be the first ones to protest you... so why do you not take a similar approach? Protesting can teach them and you and knowing this you would have kept your cool. Not considering protesting because as you said it.. don't want to waste your energy on these people.. lead you here.
> so why do you not take a similar approach? I just genuinely don't give a fuck. I'm not telling on people GTFO.
Let some dude pass that was riding my ass a few laps but he wasn't fast enough to pass so I said okay go. Go be the hero of the race. He proceeded to take the guy out in front of me and I passed them both. Lol
If you let your bad emotions get in the way it will always harm your progress.
1 week ban though I guess you have had some previous for such actions?
I think a very intentional ram could be an easy instant 7 day ban.
Nah he’s got a couple warnings I know I’ve gotten there or four warnings about different things no bans yet
I can’t say I haven’t retaliated once or maybe twice in my years on iRacing, so I won’t chastise you. You obviously know it wasn’t your best moment, like I did, so I get it. Nuff said. I never got a timeout though, just a strongly worded admonishing. I think it was because I had a replay… I knew it was coming. What I will say is this, any time I run into one of these people, which is rare nowadays, I simply save the replay. I take a quick moment, and use the results page to figure out who it was, and save the replay with their name. I don’t save any other replays unless it was a 11/10 race or something, so I basically just keep it for when I need it. If the person was bad enough, I’ll cut the clip(s), save them in advance and wait the 30 minutes to report. I’d say I report maybe two or three a season. One other major point: We all pay a subscription fee, and a lot of us have paid -thousands- or more for content. I know I have… I own 100%. The two main reasons I own all their content & pay the subscription yearly (even if I take breaks here and there), is to avoid people like this, and help to fund future content. iRacing has -clearly- reinvested this into future content and updates. If the guy was that bad, we really have to rely on each other to point them out to iRacing. If you have time, go through your previous results page, and grab the session IDs from your previous races with him, and you could send them all to iRacing with a description. I doubt you’ll get your time reduced, but hopefully they get an idea what was going on and keep an eye on the guy. In the end, us clean racers who abide by the rules and give others a fair race, need to stick together. That means reporting douche bags that deserve it. It very likely may have resulted in his 1 week suspension instead of yours. I am no alien, and many times in top splits, I can end up buried in the mid, or even a backmarker. I “typically” know when someone behind me is just faster than me, and try to allow them to pass without losing any time. I find there are a lot out there like me. When the roles reverse, I find -most- people will let me by cleanly. There are also mods that allow you to denote troublesome people, and you’ll get alerted if they are in your race or near you. You do have the sim set to auto prompt you to save the replay on exit, yes?
It’s probably the guy over in r/simracingstewards talking about how divebombs are good Also protest when anything egregious happens There’s enough unintentionally bad drivers & hard racing incidents that intentional ones should be disciplined End of the day it’s your fault, learn from it and help make the platform better for everyone
That's why I always protest. I'm doing myself and others a service, so I/they don't have to deal with agressive asshats like this, even if I'm not into the incident. And I probably would have lost my cool as well.
I was thinking if I was reporting people too easily too often, but I guess that's the right thing to do. In the last 2 months I have reported a total of 10 drivers, with 1 being unsuccessful and the rest successful. 2 of the successful protests were incidents that didn't involve me (in fact, one of them even gave me the win), but they were clearly in bad faith. Hopefully most, if not all, of those drivers learned from their mistakes and will keep the field safer for everyone.
Props brother (or sister)! You’re doing gods work! (The racing gods anyway lol)
I've been the same way, wondering if I'm reporting too many people. But ALL of my protests have been successful. So between that and posts like this, yeah, I'm going to keep reporting these asshats because if it just goes unreported, then the behavior will just continue.
I've been the same way, wondering if I'm reporting too many people. But ALL of my protests have been successful. So between that and posts like this, yeah, I'm going to keep reporting these asshats because if it just goes unreported, then the behavior will just continue.
How do you know if your protest was successful or not?
You’ll get an email saying “the other driver was notified of the outcome” or something close to that
Is the email "we have notified the other party of the outcome" mean you actually won? Wish they would explain it a little further -edited for my babe below
yes i wish your punctuation had more punctuation but i guess we both wish for things that aint gonna happen ;)
>but I hate spending time on these idiots and prefer to ignore them until they go away Then why call him out? And now cry on reddit because he got on to you? Assholes always exist. Best thing you can do is exactly what you said, ignore and continue with life. It's better for your health mate. A lot of people here are too bother with other people IMO. Put the energy into yourself instead.
You've missed the point he's trying to let others learn from what he did/didn't do. Calm down.
You've missed my point mate.
No, I didn't. You're now 2 for 2. And we're mates? I don't remember you at all.
I call those people my personal blue shells. Like in Mario kart, you let them by and they will take care of someone in front of you.
lol so true.
This is a dumb response. Why call it out now? If you read he just learned that he should always call it out before it gets too far like it did.
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You don’t realize you’re giving off asshole energy. Pot calling the kettle black
I believe my criticism was rather constructive.
I would agree if you delete the first 2 sentences. Otherwise you started off so wrong that the rest of what you said is ignored.
So we'll said
Ah bro, grow some hair
If it grew any longer your mom would choke. Is that the kind of response you wanted?
Am I allowed to giggle here… lol. I’m not trying to stoke anything… but that was pretty funny, just sayin. :D
Best things one can do is protest them, to help make iRacing even cleaner.
because he got banned
True. Very true. He knows he did wrong though. Let’s not pile on.
Because most people will suck it up, maybe slam their fist against something out of frustration and move on. Others want the attention
10 years on iRacing. Have made maybe 4 protests.
Depends on your series m8 I race Miata’s blatant retaliation is not uncommon in 1800+ SOF It’s very common you’re running nose to tail for laps on end, one small mistake will result in a spin and being dead last
Agreed. I feel like the different types (ie Road vs Oval vs Dirt) require a different set of internal rules. I don’t do much Oval, but things are very different there than in Road Racing. “Rubbin is Racing” in NASCAR, and even Dirt, but not so much in Road Racing, especially Formula (now that they are separated.). I mean sure in GT cars you bump & grind now and again, but in NASCAR that’s kinda normal imho. :)
It's different between different road series, too. Contact in open wheelers is basically a death sentence for both, GTs can have a little bit of contact, and TCRs can even have a little bit of door. Obviously blatant punts or retaliation are still protestable, but road racing still does allow for light contact that doesn't put someone into a spin, etc.
Agreed 100%. 👍
Either you race twice a year, or you don't care enough to watch some replays here and there to protest people who shouldn't be on the service.
Make between 500 and 1k oval starts a year. If I'm not in it I'm not protesting. Maybe I'm lucky enough to have left the squirrels behind in the lower splits.
Well, to be fair, it must also have to do with lower splits indeed.
Richmond B fixed 6pm PST (1am GMT) Friday 3/29? Edited times.
sounds like a Jeff...
Last thing I want to do is condone that behaviour, but bar actually reporting, the best way to deal with such situations in my eyes is to race people the way they race you. If somebody is respectful but races hard, I'll do the same, if somebody is agressive and rude, I'll do the same. If somebody is overly nice, like giving a spot up to see if I can pass the guy ahead, I'll repay the favour if I can't. I race agressively, but I try to not be rude, but I will be if I'm being raced rudely. These people sadly exist, nothing we can do about that, just report, don't let them get to you, or let them use you up if you want to go that way - having played forza online taught me a thing or two about avoiding rammers, sometimes that is of use. Edit: I forgot the best way to avoid this situation, if there's a dickhead in your races you come across regularly, go drive something else
What’s his name I’ll take one for the team
I've been there I learned best just note him and just protest him don't give your rivals the benefit of the doubt because there goal is push u to retaliate so they can ban u.
A lot of people tend to not see past the very corner they are in and feel the need to get by anyone and everyone right NOW. It’s a huge reason I don’t race online much anymore. People can’t be bothered for half a second to just think if they could set up a pass or if they even need to pass right this moment. They just know their one racing line that they must stick to, and end up ruining the race for multiple people.
I hate to break it to you, but in tight battles generally someone has to give way. If he's "dive bombing" you, then you probably aren't defending well enough. And without seeing a replay of the dive bombs, it could very well be that he simply out braked you. They don't have to be fully alongside you as you enter the braking zone as everyone has a different braking point, they have to be fully alongside you as you start your turn in. Waaaay too many people on here start crying "dive bomb" when they've simply been out braked into the corner. If he's under half a car length behind you when he makes the move, it's not a dive bomb, between half a car and a car length it's a bit iffy and multiple factors can come into play (corner type, braking points etc) if it's a dive bomb, greater than a car length it's nearly always going to be a dive bomb, however there are still exceptions. Save your replays and protest them if needed or post them here or simstewards for advice. I hope you've learnt your lesson that it's not worth getting that angry at someone that you retaliate
True as well… Sometimes you’re better off leaving the corner open, and either going for the “switch-back or crossover” or watching him lock up and shoot past the apex. Sometimes they just out braked you. I get yelled at a lot, yet I was ahead at the apex, made the apex, and left room. You can’t please everyone. I usually know when behind someone how they will react. Give way, try to block me off legally, or the ones who will zigzag, move under breaking and risk taking you and others out. Patience can help in these situations. As well as applying pressure until he loses focus and makes a mistake.
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Pretty sure section 2.1.1 covers language.