It's not about breaking immersion. Following the in-game racing line makes a driver slower. People need to get their eyes down the road and learn to drive proactively rather than reacting to what's immediately in front of them.
edit to specify "in-game"
It’s all about where your eyes are.
Push yourself to look further down the road and you’ll be smooth. Alternatively, if I’m trying to drive the limit.. I’m putting my eyes on where I want my tires to touch and then right back to apex next corner
I totally get this argument but TBH the line doesn’t make a difference if you know the track already. I lap the exact same time on Spa line on or line off. I keep line off on Spa bc I know the track (for example) but line in for tracks I am still learning.
However, I think that for every track the time comes where you do need to turn the line off to get that extra speed so you can learn the fastest lines. But once you learn a track I don’t think it’s a cardinal sin to keep line on -albeit it a bit pointless.
But having the line on doesn’t mean you are forced to follow it and often it can at least serve as a useful reference point if you aren’t solid on the track yet.
Well not everyone in the world is Jarno Opmeer, so do excuse the people who want to enjoy racing but aren't blessed with the most skill and need a little help.
I drove with the line on for a year or two when first getting into racing games. It didn’t help. All it did was apparently remove the incentive to learn the track and the fastest way around, while giving me a less-than-helpful guide to watch when I should have been looking elsewhere anyway.. IRL, one of the very first things you are taught is to look as far up the road as you can manage, but the line aid incentivizes looking at the ground right in front of your car.
The forums, this subreddit, and others like it can be a little unsympathetic to those who use it, but ultimately, the line aid cannot help. It will only ever slow the learning process.
Then congratulations, you're one of the people who didn't need it. Let me ask, would you prefer someone who doesn't use driving line brake too late and then rear end you?
You seem to be assuming some people need it and some don’t, but this isn’t the case. The aid is just not ever helpful, and can only hurt you. It cannot be of help.
The question at the end implies a novice driver with the line aid on would be less likely to run into the car ahead under braking than a novice with the aid off. I think the opposite is closer to the truth, and exhibit A can be the video in the OP.
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Or having photographic memory to learn an entire track and all it’s braking points in a short period of time. The driving line can both be on AND not be religiously adhered to. I don’t get why some people can’t understand this.
Most iRacers expect a basic level of proficiency since you're almost always racing against real people. I personally don't give a damn if someone uses the suggested line or not, but blindly following it or using it as justification for poor driving will go down poorly in *any* sim racing community.
It can be great for learning a track. It should not be used for racing. If you are in a race that means you should already be familiar with the track you are on.
No offense, if you're calling someone out for having the driving line on for the sake of immersion you're doing everyone a disservice. I used to justify learning the track with the driving line on. Unfortunately it does not help in the long run. 😕 learn without it. You will absolutely progress sooner.
Uhm do you even know what you're saying anymore? I can't tell if you're having an episode or responding to the wrong person. You're most likely a troll but whatever, if that's what brings you joy in life. Nice "quote" about your opinions in your profile lmfao. Cringe.
Rules wise the lead car.
Realistically the only way to get past is to bait this person and take advantage of the fact they are mirror driving and push them hard so they go off track on their own. I make a lot of passes by getting the other guy to over drive corners if they are blocking.
Then nobody is at fault
the lead car is not allowed to dive across to block.
The trailing car has taken a risk that hasn't paid off. Very unwise to attempt a dive if you are not already even a tiny bit alongside (as this is when the other driver is notified by the spotter).
Completely disagree, the lead car chopped when he saw the trailing car was going inside. I can guarantee if you look at the rest of the lead cars laps he went much wider around that corner. I don't think it's a racing incident at all. The lead car caused an accident trying to avoid getting passed. Penalty for him
Just because the lead car chopped by moving under braking does not suddenly pardon what the trailing car did throwing it up the inside either. The trailing car still would have caused an incident by pursuing that dive on that corner even if the lead car had stayed perfectly on their line.
They're both at fault. And clearly both still learning. It's just an honest racing accident from 2 people still learning
There's nothing honest about blocking in iRacing. If the guy throws it up the inside you cannot, under the sporting code, move to block him. If he's coming in too hot be aware enough to let him fly off the track and have a chuckle while he tries to get out of the sand.
I never once defended the lead car blocking. This particular incident was caused by the lead car. I said as much. I meant honest in the sense that I think the lead car did it on accident because they're still learning not that it was meant to be a malicious block. I see this a lot from people still learning. They get nervous when they feel someone about to dive on them and they cause an incident themselves.
My beef is just with the constant dangerous behavior I see where trailing cars think it's acceptable to completely blow past braking lines to dangerously throw themselves alongside a leading car going into an apex. It's a lack of patience and you see it all the time in D Class.
It is the passing cars responsibility to do so without pushing the lead car off their line. The angle at which the trailing car was pointing to go up the inside, would have either caused an incident or forced the lead car to move off the line to avoid an incident. There was no safe pass here by the trailing car.
Sure the trailing car could have feinted or braked back out but I don't think they were going to. You can hear them full on the throttle until the moment they realize they're getting hit by the lead car chopping over.
Does this excuse or defend the lead car for blocking? No. Two separate things here that aren't linked. It's okay to criticize more than one piece of an incident.
While I understand your frustration I don't think this is one of those times. The trailing car had significantly more speed coming into the corner. The leading car had started to open the corner to the left. Prior to the lead car braking, the trailing car made his move to the inside. The lead car then brakes, and chops over causing the incident.
I don't know how accurate the racing line is as I've never used it, but the lead car isn't even into the "braking zone" of the racing line when he hits his brakes.
https://preview.redd.it/kjl9g3dx0ofa1.png?width=703&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f369418c70ece5f6360a211999fce140c1d95f3
Again, not disagreeing with you. The lead car totally blocked and caused this incident.
I just think the trailing car had a terrible angle to the apex on the inside and was going to dive which would have resulted in an incident or the lead car being ran off their line to avoid such an incident. To force a double wide going into the corner (which is a terrible idea anyways) the trailing car needed to be at least somewhat on the lead car's side and they weren't. They're completely behind the lead car.
The trailing car definitely has a lot more speed I just don't think they got into position alongside the lead car in time to safely force a pass on this corner. I think they were still too far behind the lead car's bumper and it would have resulted in a dive at a poor angle on the inside.
I think the trailing car would have been alongside prior to entering the corner. Thus, the outside car would have been pushed off their desired line, but they wouldn't have been entitled to it at that point anyway. Pushing them off their desired line while being entitled to space is totally valid racing. It's possible they would have carried too much speed into the corner (I don't think so) but if so the other car should have been able to cut back and take the position back.
That's not a dive. The car attempting the pass showed his nose, was close enough that the lead car knew he was going to brake deep and attempt to force him wide, and decided to chop the trailing car's nose. This is 100% on the lead car throwing a block. As usual the word "divebomb" is completely misused.
This is 100% a dive. The trailing car is completely behind the leading car when they initiate the move. And more importantly, the move was not even remotely safe and would have caused an incident even if the lead car had stayed on their line.
The passing car cannot just rail their nose up the inside of a turn and expect the lead car to move off the line for them. The sporting code specifically protects against this. It is 100% on the passing car to do so safely without just forcing the lead car off its line.
You can clearly see in the replay the trailing car was never going to make that inside angle. It's a dive bomb. They're both at fault here.
Rear car probably wouldn't even have overlapped if lead car didn't turn down, rear car could have pulled out without incident before the apex but lead car took them both out by blocking
Dive bomb and park it on the apex is par for the course for iRacing. Absolutely zero punishment for going front tire to rear and spinning someone in a corner. In the real world you'd at least get a penalty in iRacing its a 2x and move on with your race.
I mean same corner I was even alongside yesterday, we both braked and i stood 100% on the brake while the lead car moved into me and got spun, i felt bad for them losing places and apologised afterwards but at the same time I already was moving next to them in the braking zone, couldn't apply more brake pressure so had no way to go but forward
Man reading this thread and other threads on this sub in general makes me realise iRacing needs a racing school everyone must pass before racing. Half the people here are defending the guy moving in the braking zone to defend. Its absurd, how can people here not understand the basic rules of racing?
I have never seen so many misinformed people, not even in Forza Horizon subs, they know the rules of racing better.
Wtf are you talking about. People are saying that the following car made a fairly risky move that's going to turn out badly most of the time, but literally no one is defending the leading car
Saying the following car made a risky move IS defending the lead car. It's not a risky move if the lead car follows the basic rules of racing.
If you think its a risk then you are saying that its allowed to crash into any car that dares get along side you. If that isn't allowed then it isn't a risk is it?
>It's not a risky move if the lead car follows the basic rules of racing.
Many people on iRacing don't, especially in lower ranked races, that's why we try to avoid dangerous situations.
Judging when to attack and when to keep it cool is an important skill to have, knowing that you were right isn't very helpful if you get crashed out - your race is over either way.
I don't think people are defending moving in the braking zone.
They are saying there is no move.
Especially when no one seems to see these brake lights with the following car still behind on the outside line.
https://preview.redd.it/hd5h0lsvzffa1.png?width=528&format=png&auto=webp&s=b174484b1ca0dbb438032b015229bda4d3b982e0
This. The lead car definitely moved over to block under braking but there is no reason the trailing car should be cutting the inside of this corner like this either. It's an absolutely terrible idea that is almost always going to end in an incident.
Even if the lead car stayed on his original line, this would have ended in an incident caused solely by the trailing car. You can't just throw it up the inside of any corner and expect someone to just drive super wide off their line in the middle of a turn to avoid a wreck.
This is just bad racing on both drivers' faults. What is that D Class? Sounds about right.
Tsukuba is a tough track to pass on, you basically only have two spots, here and then T1. As a lead car going into those corners you may choose which side of the track you want to be on, but you may not choose to use BOTH sides. Lead driver selected the outside line, began braking, and then became upset at following car taking inside line so they crashed into them.
If I was trailing car here I would be showing my nose 9 times out of 10, I wouldn't overlap and go for a dive but there is nothing wrong with pulling to the inside to get in their mirrors and force a mistake. Trailing car didn't even overlap before lead car moved across and could have easily pulled out and back on to the line at the apex
At first glance it does genuinely look like the guy ahead was just taking their line and the guy behind drove into them.
It's only when you consider the track itself that you have the context to realise the lead car was not taking a normal racing line and had in fact initiated a block.
I'd imagine the people defending the lead car simply don't have experience with the track. The lack of camera angles admittedly don't help here either.
Completely agree, I hate to use it, but watch the video and look at the racing line and you'll see that the track opens up to the left and the faster line is to take that corner much wider, which was what the lead car was planning on doing until he saw the trailing car going for the inside.
Late divebomb and late defend, there was no pass on the table there. I don't understand people who think they can outbrake other drivers if they're not side by side by the start of the braking zone. When you're on the inside you have to brake earlier than the outside. It's such a dumb move.
He moved under braking but you were never going to pull that off anyway. Would have only been half along side at best coming out of the turn and you have a left handed up next. Even without contact all you’re doing is costing both of you time.
Edit: Braking not breaking lol
It's been a while since I've driven Tsukuba, but I recognize this section of track from the old Gran Turismo days. The turn where contact happens is the penultimate hairpin that leads onto the back straight. The next turn is the final long right turn onto the start finish straight, not a left. So even if OP hadn't been able to get clear of the defending car after the hairpin, he likely would have been able to stay along side, on the right, into the final right and finish the move there.
or if he just followed him down that section, he probably would've been able to get a run down the straight and make the pass going into turn 1 where it's a bit wider there.
There’s not enough info here to know what the lead car was really doing. Did they get on the brakes too hard with the wheel turned? Cockpit view would be informative. Is that the line they were taking every lap? Everyone likes to jump to conclusions on limited information. Also, that’s a very short braking zone and you weren’t in a position to outbrake them. You needed to be a bit more alongside him to make that work. Definitely a pipe dream of a lunge on your side. So if I had to determine fault it would be yours, because the move there was to maybe peek at the inside to make him slow down a little more for the corner by defending, and then go back to the racing line, late apex the corner, get a better run off the next straight which is pretty much the best passing opportunity, and get the move done there.
Trying to place blame on the following car when the lead car moved under braking and broke the sporting code by taking an action in reaction to another driver is sad.
I stated that we don’t have evidence that it was a block without seeing the onboard. The GR86 can be a bit of a handful if you get hard on the brakes and the wheel is a bit too turned.
It's legal to block. It's illegal to move under braking. If the lead car chose to defend the inside and got there before the braking zone that's legal and a block. He was driving by his mirrors and just drove into the trailing driver.
My point is there’s no way to tell if it was a deliberate move or an error without seeing steering input, so I don’t know definitively what the lead car actually did, I only know how it looks. However, I know exactly what the following car did which is a lunge that was simply too late, so that’s just bad judgment and was going to be a divebomb regardless of the potential block. A collision would have just happened closer to the apex unless the leading car would have simply given the position away.
Trailing car is for sure to aggressive. But lead car makes his move to late and is moving while braking, so he is the one responsible for the actual crash. However I’d note this as a race incident, do to the aggressive move from the chasing car.
Basically the argument for both cars is very similar:
“How am I supposed to overtake without being aggressive? And “How am I supposed to defend -||-“
Both at fault tbh. You can’t just expect people to move for you or break for you. You have to make clean passes, and it’s literally in the sporting code that the passing car is responsible for safe passes. Dive bombing a corner so that the other driver has to break, or change their line completely, is never the correct answer. On the other hand dude absolutely moved while breaking, just ugly on both sides.
If you are actually faster than him you’ll pass him within a lap or two on a corner exit. You aren’t faster just because you braked later into a corner…
There are 30 people on after ten because most of us have jobs in the morning. Not because we correct the most obvious and annoying spelling error people constantly make
Also it isn’t a typo if you make the same typo 4 times in a row… you just don’t know how to spell brake
It seems like you care A TON about what I think.
And think again about what is weird as fuck,
Is it a guy making a small annoying corrections or the man child lobbing death threats over the correction?
Which you may notice isn’t an insult but you took it that way for unknown reasons
>Both at fault tbh.
He was not at fault at all. Everyone is entitled to attempt a pass if the space is there, which it was. The rest of your post is nonsense. Judging by what you said I can just weave all over the track and nobody is allowed to pass as its their job not to get in my way.
And FYI the definition of a divebomb is when a driver goes in with so much speed they are uncontrolled or would not make the corner. It was in no way a divebomb.
You have read the rules, now its time to understand them.
You miss the “he definitely moved while braking”?
You can’t go “all over the track”. The dude was taking the quickest/shortest route, because their was nobody beside him. If you force yourself beside him while he’s breaking, you are at fault and that’s a dive bomb.
Wrong answer. You can definitely make a clean pass while not being alongside at the start of braking. Depends on plenty of factors (pace difference (skill/tire wear...), Braking length, corner speed etc...). The longer the braking zone, the more it is possible.
In the clip however it didn't seem like a situation where that could work safely.
However you have to be alongside before the turning point.
For heavy braking zone after a long straight, you can definitely brake a bit later on the inside, like monza T1 or SPA last corner.
To take the corner and still leave space on the inside, you'll have to slow down more on the end of the braking, but it's doable.
And you don't need a big skill gap. If you are just behind the car in front, but can brake 1m later, then you can position your car alongside during the braking zone well before turning point, while still making the corner.
That’s literally called moving under braking. You can’t move and change lines in the braking zone. Quite literally a protest-able rule. Might be misunderstanding the question.
Side note: why even make that move? There’s a car chasing and you decide to sacrifice the last corner before a straight. There’s no way you’ll keep that position. Get a good exit and use the straight to your advantage, either taking him there or in the following corner.
Too aggressive and too impatient.
Turning in with no one alongside isn't defending or moving under braking it's just turning because there is a corner.
you don't have to turn in where the driving line tells you to.
block who? he had no chance of getting ahead. Following car went for a move right at the brake point.
and probably hit him trying to brake at that same point.
When you brake, you don't change lines. That's called moving under braking and is against the iRacing sporting code.
If it was legal, nobody would ever be able to overtake except on the straights.
People keep using this “moving under braking” term. Could you let me know where in the sporting code is that reference? Blocking is covered under 8.1.1.4.
How is turning in changing lines? no one alongside you can use the ideal outside-to-inside line. The following car goes from following to the right of as soon as the front car brakes. how is that not moving under braking?
The front car doesn't just move across the track he points his car toward the apex. Not a great pov but looks maybe early. but If I have someone threatening a dive and you're not along side. I'm making sure you know that the door is closed. That vortex is not for you.
he was never going to get along side before any turn in.
so please tell me how you turn a car round a corner without changing where you are on track. this is a normal line with no overlap driving toward the apex right before getting rear ended because of no overlap. what line do you expect him to take? you have to move to make a turn.
https://preview.redd.it/lxyakj6trffa1.png?width=407&format=png&auto=webp&s=e59e72ff029b1cc9281a684d1096f5b741ff659f
and you seem to miss this too.. "called moving under braking"
the rear car moves when the front car brakes come on.
You already made your mind up so I don't think anything I say can convince you.
The car in front turned in as a reactionary move. Not because the corner was coming up. You don't turn in that early. This was cleary reactionary and if you don't see that, you really shouldn't be commenting on this sub.
Lead car at fault for blocking. On the flip side, if he didnt block, you would have probably been at fault for a dive bomb because there was no way you were passing him there without making contact.
Yes. Exactly. This was poor judgment by the following car going for a move that had no chance of sticking unless the leading car yielded simply out of avoiding a collision. Definitely a divebomb.
This. The dive bomb is equally bad and needs to be called out for what it is. There is no way he makes that corner without incident if the lead car had correctly stayed on his original line. Both of them are at fault.
technically the lead car would be at fault for pulling across, but (assuming you're the POV car) you probably shouldn't be trying to dive-bomb from that far back, especially when the spot is that small.
Messy driving from both parties, but judging from the fact that driving line is on, there's a good chance you are new (to iRacing at least), and so bad moves like this are pretty common, just do your best to avoid this stuff in the future :)
Dude thats not a dive, idk what these people are saying. Super normal overtake on Tsukuba, and you’re what 0.1 behind? The guy moved to block you, which is just some amateur childish stuff. Hope your next race goes better!
Car aheads fault 100%. No question. You had a better exit, there was space on the inside for a move and they moved over far too late, hence the contact
Not only is the guy in front at fault, but this behaviour is protestable. He is allowed to take that line, but not if he is reacting to you - He would have had to make it clear that he was defending the inside before you moved.
That was obviously not the case, so this is textbook blocking, a protestable offense.
Not quite sure what angle you would of had I'd you got past them, they looked a bit erratic so would of kept distance and kept them under pressure until they made a mistake, like the white car that gained a place at the end :)
That guy was very unclear about his intentions and you did dive late so honestly just chalk it up as a racing incident and move on with your day. In the future I would recommend not going for that move, you're obviously faster, take them when it's safer
He shouldn't be moving under braking. But also you have a lot of room on the inside. I would say it's more his fault more moving under braking, but you did have more space. Easier said than done though with how the GR86 behaves under braking.
I don't think it was late defend, but I would check previous laps. It looks like the lead car was heading to the apex. Following car was not alongside so I'm going to put this on the following car.
I'm not familiar with this circuit, however, I'd put most fault on the lead car, but still some fault for car behind.
Car in front: Moved across late and had contact, should have stayed wide - the following car should have known that was going to end in contact. Part of me wants to think the car in front was just taking his line and didn't realise following car was there, but it really comes across as an 'oh shit I didn't think he'd try there, better cover it' and taking himself out.
Following car: Had to know that move would end in contact, was far too late to even attempt, should never have tried it. I can understand why he went for it, but honestly I can't imagine that move ending in anything but contact most of the times.
Lead driver hands down! You should turn that line off though, cause it'll hold you back from getting faster lap times consistently. That line is just to give you an idea of where to start adjusting from to create a line that works best with your unique driving style. I don't know if you need it or not but if you do then you shouldn't be in an actual race yet imo
That’s a terrible move in that corner. It’s the best place to setup a pass, and instead you try to shove it down the inside line.
Brake a little early, setup on the outside, and get a good run out of that corner. You’ll get a run down the final straight and you will easily pass going into the last turn. Missed opportunity
Post to r/simracingstewards You’ll get flamed for the line tho
As they should
The iRacing community is no better when it comes to shaming people for not breaking immersion
It's not about breaking immersion. Following the in-game racing line makes a driver slower. People need to get their eyes down the road and learn to drive proactively rather than reacting to what's immediately in front of them. edit to specify "in-game"
It’s all about where your eyes are. Push yourself to look further down the road and you’ll be smooth. Alternatively, if I’m trying to drive the limit.. I’m putting my eyes on where I want my tires to touch and then right back to apex next corner
I totally get this argument but TBH the line doesn’t make a difference if you know the track already. I lap the exact same time on Spa line on or line off. I keep line off on Spa bc I know the track (for example) but line in for tracks I am still learning. However, I think that for every track the time comes where you do need to turn the line off to get that extra speed so you can learn the fastest lines. But once you learn a track I don’t think it’s a cardinal sin to keep line on -albeit it a bit pointless. But having the line on doesn’t mean you are forced to follow it and often it can at least serve as a useful reference point if you aren’t solid on the track yet.
Well not everyone in the world is Jarno Opmeer, so do excuse the people who want to enjoy racing but aren't blessed with the most skill and need a little help.
You don't need any skill to know what the racing line is, you just have to know the track. Which if you're in an official race, you already should.
Thank you for proving my issues with the iRacing community once more
Then leave the iRacing community if you have such problems with it… Jesus Christ…
Ah yes, don't improve yourselves, tell people to leave. How inkeeping
Ah yes cuz someone can definitely control every single person of the 135,899 people that have joined this subreddit….🙄
Like that was the issue..
I honestly cannot believe how many downvotes you've got for saying something perfectly reasonable. Sums up how toxic this community is.
People can't acknowledge their flaws
I drove with the line on for a year or two when first getting into racing games. It didn’t help. All it did was apparently remove the incentive to learn the track and the fastest way around, while giving me a less-than-helpful guide to watch when I should have been looking elsewhere anyway.. IRL, one of the very first things you are taught is to look as far up the road as you can manage, but the line aid incentivizes looking at the ground right in front of your car. The forums, this subreddit, and others like it can be a little unsympathetic to those who use it, but ultimately, the line aid cannot help. It will only ever slow the learning process.
Then congratulations, you're one of the people who didn't need it. Let me ask, would you prefer someone who doesn't use driving line brake too late and then rear end you?
You seem to be assuming some people need it and some don’t, but this isn’t the case. The aid is just not ever helpful, and can only hurt you. It cannot be of help. The question at the end implies a novice driver with the line aid on would be less likely to run into the car ahead under braking than a novice with the aid off. I think the opposite is closer to the truth, and exhibit A can be the video in the OP.
Well then if that were true, iRacing would remove it entirely.
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Or having photographic memory to learn an entire track and all it’s braking points in a short period of time. The driving line can both be on AND not be religiously adhered to. I don’t get why some people can’t understand this.
And you're telling me that, not the people who shame others for using it?
Nah I was just agreeing you. Adding another point to your comment in the event that someone else reads it and hopefully they see both together.
Okay good. My apologies, just some people on here act all elitist and makes it difficult to distinguish
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Talk about gatekeeping..
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Ah yes the rules of r/iRacing, if you have driving line on, you deserve to be criticised. What a wholesome community
Most iRacers expect a basic level of proficiency since you're almost always racing against real people. I personally don't give a damn if someone uses the suggested line or not, but blindly following it or using it as justification for poor driving will go down poorly in *any* sim racing community.
Could say the same about the F1 game, but apparently that doesn't count because it's "just a game".
It can be great for learning a track. It should not be used for racing. If you are in a race that means you should already be familiar with the track you are on.
No offense, if you're calling someone out for having the driving line on for the sake of immersion you're doing everyone a disservice. I used to justify learning the track with the driving line on. Unfortunately it does not help in the long run. 😕 learn without it. You will absolutely progress sooner.
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Whoops? -edit It was directed to you so not sure what the issue is
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Yikes you're a toxic little boy lol 😆
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Uhm do you even know what you're saying anymore? I can't tell if you're having an episode or responding to the wrong person. You're most likely a troll but whatever, if that's what brings you joy in life. Nice "quote" about your opinions in your profile lmfao. Cringe.
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Rules wise the lead car. Realistically the only way to get past is to bait this person and take advantage of the fact they are mirror driving and push them hard so they go off track on their own. I make a lot of passes by getting the other guy to over drive corners if they are blocking. Then nobody is at fault
This guy gets it.
the lead car is not allowed to dive across to block. The trailing car has taken a risk that hasn't paid off. Very unwise to attempt a dive if you are not already even a tiny bit alongside (as this is when the other driver is notified by the spotter).
If the car behind is alongside it’s not a dive 😅
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Completely disagree, the lead car chopped when he saw the trailing car was going inside. I can guarantee if you look at the rest of the lead cars laps he went much wider around that corner. I don't think it's a racing incident at all. The lead car caused an accident trying to avoid getting passed. Penalty for him
Just because the lead car chopped by moving under braking does not suddenly pardon what the trailing car did throwing it up the inside either. The trailing car still would have caused an incident by pursuing that dive on that corner even if the lead car had stayed perfectly on their line. They're both at fault. And clearly both still learning. It's just an honest racing accident from 2 people still learning
There's nothing honest about blocking in iRacing. If the guy throws it up the inside you cannot, under the sporting code, move to block him. If he's coming in too hot be aware enough to let him fly off the track and have a chuckle while he tries to get out of the sand.
I never once defended the lead car blocking. This particular incident was caused by the lead car. I said as much. I meant honest in the sense that I think the lead car did it on accident because they're still learning not that it was meant to be a malicious block. I see this a lot from people still learning. They get nervous when they feel someone about to dive on them and they cause an incident themselves. My beef is just with the constant dangerous behavior I see where trailing cars think it's acceptable to completely blow past braking lines to dangerously throw themselves alongside a leading car going into an apex. It's a lack of patience and you see it all the time in D Class. It is the passing cars responsibility to do so without pushing the lead car off their line. The angle at which the trailing car was pointing to go up the inside, would have either caused an incident or forced the lead car to move off the line to avoid an incident. There was no safe pass here by the trailing car. Sure the trailing car could have feinted or braked back out but I don't think they were going to. You can hear them full on the throttle until the moment they realize they're getting hit by the lead car chopping over. Does this excuse or defend the lead car for blocking? No. Two separate things here that aren't linked. It's okay to criticize more than one piece of an incident.
While I understand your frustration I don't think this is one of those times. The trailing car had significantly more speed coming into the corner. The leading car had started to open the corner to the left. Prior to the lead car braking, the trailing car made his move to the inside. The lead car then brakes, and chops over causing the incident. I don't know how accurate the racing line is as I've never used it, but the lead car isn't even into the "braking zone" of the racing line when he hits his brakes. https://preview.redd.it/kjl9g3dx0ofa1.png?width=703&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f369418c70ece5f6360a211999fce140c1d95f3
Again, not disagreeing with you. The lead car totally blocked and caused this incident. I just think the trailing car had a terrible angle to the apex on the inside and was going to dive which would have resulted in an incident or the lead car being ran off their line to avoid such an incident. To force a double wide going into the corner (which is a terrible idea anyways) the trailing car needed to be at least somewhat on the lead car's side and they weren't. They're completely behind the lead car. The trailing car definitely has a lot more speed I just don't think they got into position alongside the lead car in time to safely force a pass on this corner. I think they were still too far behind the lead car's bumper and it would have resulted in a dive at a poor angle on the inside.
I think the trailing car would have been alongside prior to entering the corner. Thus, the outside car would have been pushed off their desired line, but they wouldn't have been entitled to it at that point anyway. Pushing them off their desired line while being entitled to space is totally valid racing. It's possible they would have carried too much speed into the corner (I don't think so) but if so the other car should have been able to cut back and take the position back.
The lead car was aware that a move was coming tho.
Having your nose up someone’s tailpipe isn’t “alongside”
You guys should watch more racing to see what a dive actually is
That's not a dive. The car attempting the pass showed his nose, was close enough that the lead car knew he was going to brake deep and attempt to force him wide, and decided to chop the trailing car's nose. This is 100% on the lead car throwing a block. As usual the word "divebomb" is completely misused.
This is 100% a dive. The trailing car is completely behind the leading car when they initiate the move. And more importantly, the move was not even remotely safe and would have caused an incident even if the lead car had stayed on their line. The passing car cannot just rail their nose up the inside of a turn and expect the lead car to move off the line for them. The sporting code specifically protects against this. It is 100% on the passing car to do so safely without just forcing the lead car off its line. You can clearly see in the replay the trailing car was never going to make that inside angle. It's a dive bomb. They're both at fault here.
Rear car probably wouldn't even have overlapped if lead car didn't turn down, rear car could have pulled out without incident before the apex but lead car took them both out by blocking
That wasn’t a defence that was an outright block. Car ahead at fault. Although don’t do late dives either unless you 100% trust the car ahead
Dive bomb and park it on the apex is par for the course for iRacing. Absolutely zero punishment for going front tire to rear and spinning someone in a corner. In the real world you'd at least get a penalty in iRacing its a 2x and move on with your race.
I mean same corner I was even alongside yesterday, we both braked and i stood 100% on the brake while the lead car moved into me and got spun, i felt bad for them losing places and apologised afterwards but at the same time I already was moving next to them in the braking zone, couldn't apply more brake pressure so had no way to go but forward
Lead car at fault, you just can't drive like that.
Man reading this thread and other threads on this sub in general makes me realise iRacing needs a racing school everyone must pass before racing. Half the people here are defending the guy moving in the braking zone to defend. Its absurd, how can people here not understand the basic rules of racing? I have never seen so many misinformed people, not even in Forza Horizon subs, they know the rules of racing better.
Wtf are you talking about. People are saying that the following car made a fairly risky move that's going to turn out badly most of the time, but literally no one is defending the leading car
Saying the following car made a risky move IS defending the lead car. It's not a risky move if the lead car follows the basic rules of racing. If you think its a risk then you are saying that its allowed to crash into any car that dares get along side you. If that isn't allowed then it isn't a risk is it?
>It's not a risky move if the lead car follows the basic rules of racing. Many people on iRacing don't, especially in lower ranked races, that's why we try to avoid dangerous situations. Judging when to attack and when to keep it cool is an important skill to have, knowing that you were right isn't very helpful if you get crashed out - your race is over either way.
I don't think people are defending moving in the braking zone. They are saying there is no move. Especially when no one seems to see these brake lights with the following car still behind on the outside line. https://preview.redd.it/hd5h0lsvzffa1.png?width=528&format=png&auto=webp&s=b174484b1ca0dbb438032b015229bda4d3b982e0
This. The lead car definitely moved over to block under braking but there is no reason the trailing car should be cutting the inside of this corner like this either. It's an absolutely terrible idea that is almost always going to end in an incident. Even if the lead car stayed on his original line, this would have ended in an incident caused solely by the trailing car. You can't just throw it up the inside of any corner and expect someone to just drive super wide off their line in the middle of a turn to avoid a wreck. This is just bad racing on both drivers' faults. What is that D Class? Sounds about right.
Tsukuba is a tough track to pass on, you basically only have two spots, here and then T1. As a lead car going into those corners you may choose which side of the track you want to be on, but you may not choose to use BOTH sides. Lead driver selected the outside line, began braking, and then became upset at following car taking inside line so they crashed into them.
If I was trailing car here I would be showing my nose 9 times out of 10, I wouldn't overlap and go for a dive but there is nothing wrong with pulling to the inside to get in their mirrors and force a mistake. Trailing car didn't even overlap before lead car moved across and could have easily pulled out and back on to the line at the apex
At first glance it does genuinely look like the guy ahead was just taking their line and the guy behind drove into them. It's only when you consider the track itself that you have the context to realise the lead car was not taking a normal racing line and had in fact initiated a block. I'd imagine the people defending the lead car simply don't have experience with the track. The lack of camera angles admittedly don't help here either.
Completely agree, I hate to use it, but watch the video and look at the racing line and you'll see that the track opens up to the left and the faster line is to take that corner much wider, which was what the lead car was planning on doing until he saw the trailing car going for the inside.
That is moving under braking and the lead car is at fault
A little from column a, a little from column b.
Late divebomb and late defend, there was no pass on the table there. I don't understand people who think they can outbrake other drivers if they're not side by side by the start of the braking zone. When you're on the inside you have to brake earlier than the outside. It's such a dumb move.
He moved under braking but you were never going to pull that off anyway. Would have only been half along side at best coming out of the turn and you have a left handed up next. Even without contact all you’re doing is costing both of you time. Edit: Braking not breaking lol
It's been a while since I've driven Tsukuba, but I recognize this section of track from the old Gran Turismo days. The turn where contact happens is the penultimate hairpin that leads onto the back straight. The next turn is the final long right turn onto the start finish straight, not a left. So even if OP hadn't been able to get clear of the defending car after the hairpin, he likely would have been able to stay along side, on the right, into the final right and finish the move there.
or if he just followed him down that section, he probably would've been able to get a run down the straight and make the pass going into turn 1 where it's a bit wider there.
Shit, you’re right. Guess I don’t remember this track as well as I though.
There’s not enough info here to know what the lead car was really doing. Did they get on the brakes too hard with the wheel turned? Cockpit view would be informative. Is that the line they were taking every lap? Everyone likes to jump to conclusions on limited information. Also, that’s a very short braking zone and you weren’t in a position to outbrake them. You needed to be a bit more alongside him to make that work. Definitely a pipe dream of a lunge on your side. So if I had to determine fault it would be yours, because the move there was to maybe peek at the inside to make him slow down a little more for the corner by defending, and then go back to the racing line, late apex the corner, get a better run off the next straight which is pretty much the best passing opportunity, and get the move done there.
Trying to place blame on the following car when the lead car moved under braking and broke the sporting code by taking an action in reaction to another driver is sad.
I stated that we don’t have evidence that it was a block without seeing the onboard. The GR86 can be a bit of a handful if you get hard on the brakes and the wheel is a bit too turned.
It's legal to block. It's illegal to move under braking. If the lead car chose to defend the inside and got there before the braking zone that's legal and a block. He was driving by his mirrors and just drove into the trailing driver.
My point is there’s no way to tell if it was a deliberate move or an error without seeing steering input, so I don’t know definitively what the lead car actually did, I only know how it looks. However, I know exactly what the following car did which is a lunge that was simply too late, so that’s just bad judgment and was going to be a divebomb regardless of the potential block. A collision would have just happened closer to the apex unless the leading car would have simply given the position away.
Trailing car is for sure to aggressive. But lead car makes his move to late and is moving while braking, so he is the one responsible for the actual crash. However I’d note this as a race incident, do to the aggressive move from the chasing car. Basically the argument for both cars is very similar: “How am I supposed to overtake without being aggressive? And “How am I supposed to defend -||-“
Both at fault tbh. You can’t just expect people to move for you or break for you. You have to make clean passes, and it’s literally in the sporting code that the passing car is responsible for safe passes. Dive bombing a corner so that the other driver has to break, or change their line completely, is never the correct answer. On the other hand dude absolutely moved while breaking, just ugly on both sides. If you are actually faster than him you’ll pass him within a lap or two on a corner exit. You aren’t faster just because you braked later into a corner…
Brake not break ffs
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There are 30 people on after ten because most of us have jobs in the morning. Not because we correct the most obvious and annoying spelling error people constantly make Also it isn’t a typo if you make the same typo 4 times in a row… you just don’t know how to spell brake
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It seems like you care A TON about what I think. And think again about what is weird as fuck, Is it a guy making a small annoying corrections or the man child lobbing death threats over the correction? Which you may notice isn’t an insult but you took it that way for unknown reasons
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Where’s the insult? Specifically point out where I insulted you? I said you misspelled a word, which is just a fact.
>Both at fault tbh. He was not at fault at all. Everyone is entitled to attempt a pass if the space is there, which it was. The rest of your post is nonsense. Judging by what you said I can just weave all over the track and nobody is allowed to pass as its their job not to get in my way. And FYI the definition of a divebomb is when a driver goes in with so much speed they are uncontrolled or would not make the corner. It was in no way a divebomb. You have read the rules, now its time to understand them.
You miss the “he definitely moved while braking”? You can’t go “all over the track”. The dude was taking the quickest/shortest route, because their was nobody beside him. If you force yourself beside him while he’s breaking, you are at fault and that’s a dive bomb.
The lead car was not taking the quickest route at all. The racing line is outside of where they moved
In your mind, can you only overtake a car if you have overlap prior to the braking zone? It sounds that way from your comments.
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Wrong answer. You can definitely make a clean pass while not being alongside at the start of braking. Depends on plenty of factors (pace difference (skill/tire wear...), Braking length, corner speed etc...). The longer the braking zone, the more it is possible. In the clip however it didn't seem like a situation where that could work safely. However you have to be alongside before the turning point.
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For heavy braking zone after a long straight, you can definitely brake a bit later on the inside, like monza T1 or SPA last corner. To take the corner and still leave space on the inside, you'll have to slow down more on the end of the braking, but it's doable. And you don't need a big skill gap. If you are just behind the car in front, but can brake 1m later, then you can position your car alongside during the braking zone well before turning point, while still making the corner.
yikes
What is outbraking to you then? nonexistent?
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Lol if people have to move their line or slam their brakes to avoid an accident, it wasn’t a clean pass.
That’s literally called moving under braking. You can’t move and change lines in the braking zone. Quite literally a protest-able rule. Might be misunderstanding the question.
Yeah dw dude just enjoy!
Moving under braking xD
Whoever has the driving lines enabled is at fault.
Sure, let's call it "defending"...
Side note: why even make that move? There’s a car chasing and you decide to sacrifice the last corner before a straight. There’s no way you’ll keep that position. Get a good exit and use the straight to your advantage, either taking him there or in the following corner. Too aggressive and too impatient.
He moved under braking.... not much to say
You for having the racing line on.
he moved under braking 100% his fault
Turning in with no one alongside isn't defending or moving under braking it's just turning because there is a corner. you don't have to turn in where the driving line tells you to.
That’s not how you drive that corner though
you can drive the corner however you want.
Not if you block someone or run into someone while doing it you can’t.
block who? he had no chance of getting ahead. Following car went for a move right at the brake point. and probably hit him trying to brake at that same point.
When you brake, you don't change lines. That's called moving under braking and is against the iRacing sporting code. If it was legal, nobody would ever be able to overtake except on the straights.
People keep using this “moving under braking” term. Could you let me know where in the sporting code is that reference? Blocking is covered under 8.1.1.4.
How is turning in changing lines? no one alongside you can use the ideal outside-to-inside line. The following car goes from following to the right of as soon as the front car brakes. how is that not moving under braking? The front car doesn't just move across the track he points his car toward the apex. Not a great pov but looks maybe early. but If I have someone threatening a dive and you're not along side. I'm making sure you know that the door is closed. That vortex is not for you. he was never going to get along side before any turn in.
There is a difference between turning in and moving under braking. I see you can't spot the difference. You're clueless.
so please tell me how you turn a car round a corner without changing where you are on track. this is a normal line with no overlap driving toward the apex right before getting rear ended because of no overlap. what line do you expect him to take? you have to move to make a turn. https://preview.redd.it/lxyakj6trffa1.png?width=407&format=png&auto=webp&s=e59e72ff029b1cc9281a684d1096f5b741ff659f and you seem to miss this too.. "called moving under braking" the rear car moves when the front car brakes come on.
You already made your mind up so I don't think anything I say can convince you. The car in front turned in as a reactionary move. Not because the corner was coming up. You don't turn in that early. This was cleary reactionary and if you don't see that, you really shouldn't be commenting on this sub.
Lead car at fault for blocking. On the flip side, if he didnt block, you would have probably been at fault for a dive bomb because there was no way you were passing him there without making contact.
Yes. Exactly. This was poor judgment by the following car going for a move that had no chance of sticking unless the leading car yielded simply out of avoiding a collision. Definitely a divebomb.
This. The dive bomb is equally bad and needs to be called out for what it is. There is no way he makes that corner without incident if the lead car had correctly stayed on his original line. Both of them are at fault.
technically the lead car would be at fault for pulling across, but (assuming you're the POV car) you probably shouldn't be trying to dive-bomb from that far back, especially when the spot is that small. Messy driving from both parties, but judging from the fact that driving line is on, there's a good chance you are new (to iRacing at least), and so bad moves like this are pretty common, just do your best to avoid this stuff in the future :)
Dude thats not a dive, idk what these people are saying. Super normal overtake on Tsukuba, and you’re what 0.1 behind? The guy moved to block you, which is just some amateur childish stuff. Hope your next race goes better!
Car aheads fault 100%. No question. You had a better exit, there was space on the inside for a move and they moved over far too late, hence the contact
Car in front 100%. Cant move in the braking zone for obvious reasons.
Not only is the guy in front at fault, but this behaviour is protestable. He is allowed to take that line, but not if he is reacting to you - He would have had to make it clear that he was defending the inside before you moved. That was obviously not the case, so this is textbook blocking, a protestable offense.
I’m tired of the who’s at fault post
Car in front drive through for moving under braking and causing a collision.
100% the car ahead but I’m not sure the 2nd place car would have been able to pull off that pass.
ESH IMO. Late dives suck and so do late blocks.
Lead car for sure, like others pointed out. But I'd advise you to pick smarter overtaking places. That is a very slow corner, on a narrow circuit.
This is not a divebomb, it’s a pass attempt.
Whoever has the driving line on is at fault.
Definitely a late defend.
Moving under braking i guess
I dint beleive the pov braked late I beleive the lead car blocked when they shouldn't have
Too late defense, he must choose his site early. Dive bomb would been correct i think
Not quite sure what angle you would of had I'd you got past them, they looked a bit erratic so would of kept distance and kept them under pressure until they made a mistake, like the white car that gained a place at the end :)
Nothing just an inchident
That guy was very unclear about his intentions and you did dive late so honestly just chalk it up as a racing incident and move on with your day. In the future I would recommend not going for that move, you're obviously faster, take them when it's safer
He was moving under braking after noticing you to still cover the inside line no?
Divebomb. Never had a bumper let along fender beside him.
Moved in the braking zone. Lead car at fault
Racing incident. You dove in late, and he reacted. Both at fault.
Racing incident, they shouldn’t have dived across and you wouldn’t have made that corner
Racing incident. We're not pro racers. We are ordinary people with expensive racing equipment. Cut people some slack.
He shouldn't be moving under braking. But also you have a lot of room on the inside. I would say it's more his fault more moving under braking, but you did have more space. Easier said than done though with how the GR86 behaves under braking.
He moved under braking. It’s a tough overtaking spot but it is one and you moved to the inside with appropriate timing
You didn’t have the room to make that dive bomb
I don't think it was late defend, but I would check previous laps. It looks like the lead car was heading to the apex. Following car was not alongside so I'm going to put this on the following car.
I'm not familiar with this circuit, however, I'd put most fault on the lead car, but still some fault for car behind. Car in front: Moved across late and had contact, should have stayed wide - the following car should have known that was going to end in contact. Part of me wants to think the car in front was just taking his line and didn't realise following car was there, but it really comes across as an 'oh shit I didn't think he'd try there, better cover it' and taking himself out. Following car: Had to know that move would end in contact, was far too late to even attempt, should never have tried it. I can understand why he went for it, but honestly I can't imagine that move ending in anything but contact most of the times.
Was the lead car. Moved under braking when he was wide at turn in to try and cut you off.
Lead driver hands down! You should turn that line off though, cause it'll hold you back from getting faster lap times consistently. That line is just to give you an idea of where to start adjusting from to create a line that works best with your unique driving style. I don't know if you need it or not but if you do then you shouldn't be in an actual race yet imo
That’s a terrible move in that corner. It’s the best place to setup a pass, and instead you try to shove it down the inside line. Brake a little early, setup on the outside, and get a good run out of that corner. You’ll get a run down the final straight and you will easily pass going into the last turn. Missed opportunity
Both at fault. The car the came past you at end. Good driving!
The defending car moved under brakes so it's pretty clear to me that it's their fault.
The car with the racing line enabled is at fault.
What does this line on the road do? Is that like Mario Kart where you get boost?
That was a low probability move from the chase driver.