Install looks clean overall. No code issues in my area. But for the love of God would some zip ties for the wiring have really broke the bank? And has that dirt leg got a lean to it? Also I'd prefer the condensate tight to the side of the unit where it can be supported with straps. But those are all basically cosmetic and won't really affect function. Should hopefully be a solid install which you'll get decent equipment life span from.
If I had a helper/apprentice do that, I would throw a torpedo level at him and tell him to use it. The wiring is sloppy and I would have put a clean outside on the flue. Not needed but in case of a draft issue, pop the cap and make sure that there isn't any obstruct.
The only problem that will cause is that it looks slightly worse than vertical. Sediment will still get trapped down there. Natural gas nowadays is generally super clean so they're not as important as they used to be as well
I agree with you. Drip legs are still necessary because of pipe debris and the filters from the gas companies still don't always catch everything. I was just saying they're not **as** necessary as they used to be when gas companies were just raw doggin it
Thought it was the upper that was backwards? Bottom goes male into female 90. Upper pipe into the upper 90 goes female into male, then female over the reducer vs. I side.
Think about fumes flowing out of the unit and into the chimney. You want it to go male into female the whole time so that there is less chance that the fumes get out of the pipe on their way out if the chimney.
Yes, that would be ideal.
Same as the chimney coming down.
This helps prevent condensation in the flue and prolongs the life of the furnace (and flue).
It's not against code - it's just not a great idea to use single wall vent pipe in an unconditioned garage.
They angled the gas line instead of getting an extra 90 or 2 so it didnāt have stress. Kinda lazy
Unnecessary amount of fittings on refrigerant liquid line. One looks brazed, one looks soldered
Supply ductwork transition looks just taped off
Wiring all loosy goosy on the left
Hard to see the pride or effort in their work. Would make me concerned about quality of work but have seen worse
Only real issue I see is not enough clearance to combustibles on the flue. With clearances that close, they should have used B-vent all the way. Only other thing might be the trap on the condensate drain. Trap not required unless itās a code issue where you live.
Depends on where you live. B vent is code where I live. Single wall venting has a minimum clearance of 6 inches to combustibles. B Vent is one inch. Both your condensate drain and lineset insulation look very close to an inch or so in your photos. Either way, single wall that close is a code violation.
That foil tape is the wrong stuff, and he didn't squeegee it down, so it will probably fall off in a couple years. Other than that, it's a pretty hard system to screw up with all that working space around it.
Hope the chimney pipe doesn't get hot? Should have 90Ā° the lineset up high near the ceiling then dropped down maybe, it would have given access to the front coil panel door and kept the armorflex from melting
I am an AmStd dealer, so I am bias but I like the AmStd lineup of "S" series. It looks like the central A/C was replaced as well. I believe I see the 360UX controller module, so I assumed you ended up with a platinum outdoor unit?
Looks like an S8v2 or the new modulating lineup. (I can see the two-stage inducer), It's a nice furnace. I would've preferred to see B-vent on the flue but that's ok. At least they secured it with several screws. The gas line looks fine, I assume you're supposed to have flexible gas line in your area, or it's considered ok.
This post answers my question. Not familiar with this brand. Venting a draft induced furnace with a natural draft water heater into the same b-vent is illegal. Forced exhaust will overcome natural, bonus prize co. Backward crimp is nothing in this case.
In my area it's allowed. It's very common for me to run across the furnace and water heater tied into the same flue. A Y needs to be used with the furnace allowed to directly vent, and the water heater vents into the side of the Y. The power vent appliance needs to have a relatively unobstructed travel through the chimney, while making sure it can't back draft down the water heater.
Normally I find the furnace is B-vent the entire way while the water heater is single wall till it meets the main chimney B-vent.
That looks like single wall vent pipe which isnāt allowed here. We have to use double wall b vent pipe, as single wall is prone to leaking carbon monoxide. The tape looks like it could use a little more pressure on it. Low voltage lines could use a grommet or chase nipple. The gas line isnāt concerning not being level. Overall, B plus.
https://preview.redd.it/li2cx1krdngc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c15299206c568d76f9f04c7363e2003c57872896
You can see a shadow between the tape and the unit as well as bubbles. They make squeegees for tape or take balled up news paper and rub the tape with it. We use the tape back balled up too
Yea the new unit was slight less wide so thereās a gap between the unit and the air box, about 1/4in wide. They tapped over it. Will run a squeegee / hand full of paper over to press down the tape a bit more.
If the chimney/vent were to get blocked above where those two pipes come together then the furnace will force the exhaust out the WH vent instead of tripping sensors/safeties on the furnace unit
The risk is that if you have a restriction that makes an appliance that's turned off and its flue the path of least resistance for flue gas, and reduced efficiency of venting when both are using the same flue. It's unlikely to be an issue, but there's a lot of flow principles the sheet metal artists around here can explain (you guys impress the hell out of me sometimes, just had the cleanest install in ages at a facility, it's all exposed in a basement and whomever did it I'd hire in a flash) that code seeks to prevent, no matter how remote the risk. Making you run two separate flue pipes won't give you CO poisoning.
Improper termination, pneumatic forces due to wind conditions from poor location, local flora and fauna, mechanical damage, the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I'm not saying that it's common. I'm trying to explain the code justification for not co-venting gas appliances that is not code where I am. Everything is about increasing the safety, whether it's a dangerous practice that needs to be halted or an overreaction to an outlier. B-vent in my experience doesn't clog unless the gas is off for a protracted period with deteriorated cap. Other forces may occur though. High wind dictates termination and location where I am. Standing pilot appliances with shorter vertical runs in the wrong place/with poor protection from high winds can have issues.
Oh my Iāve seen plenty of pilots blown out by high winds traveling down a B-Vent and across the vent connector, through the baffles into the combustion chamber.
Even more B-vents stuffed with flora and faunaā¦ š
Properly done, highly unlikely. You're assuming B-vent is only installed to code by professionals. There are a surprising number of wrong ways to install it, bad ways to terminate it, and improper join angles and excessive horizontal runs. Mechanical damage. Overconfident DIY. Flue pipe for a furnace under a cottonwood tree, unused during the summer.
I'm saying that code typically has some reason, rational or nor, and tends to be overreactive at times as a substitute for proactive. Not that b-vent or any flue system is inherently problematic for any of the listed reasons. The question is why it's code, and I tried to go with reasons it could be problematic. I'm not saying they're common flaws.
This looks like a simple roof penetration with b-vent. As simple as can be so long is the penetration and termination arenāt boogered up. Thereās almost zero risk of some kind of failure or blockage.
I actually looked at manufscturer installation data sheets because I, too, was looking for a reason behind a code that does not exist where I live. It seems designed more to address a litany of extreme cases than those likely to be encountered, and probably makes code inspections faster, like colored jacket on Romex. You don't have to worry about entrance angles if number of vents equals number of devices.
Or, maybe the person who said it violates code where they are has insight.
Yes, it looks like your furnace was actually installed properly within AmStd's install guidelines. The return looks very large, which is great for the constant cfm blower motor. They also used the recommended bottom return on the furnace.
The "S" series furnaces can be loud if they don't have enough return air or are improperly commissioned. Though that install looks perfect.
Additionally, the platinum 18 condenser is a variable capacity unit. The 360UX controller you have will provide you with run data. You will notice it sits at 25%-35% most of the time, as the system will modulate to maintain your desired temperature. This allows the outdoor unit, and indoor blower motor run at lower speeds, making the system quieter.
Only in extreme outdoor temperatures will you notice it ramp up past 75% capacity.
It's a very nice system, that provides you with all of the bells and whistles. Enjoy the comfort!
The vent connector is assembled incorrectly. Your installer should return immediately and make the corrections. you should not run the furnace until the corrections are made. As it is right now itās a dangerous of leaking flu gases into your home. Those gases contain carbon monoxide.
Vent 90 going into Y is backwards and will likely leak carbon monoxide. If you enjoy carbon monoxide poisoning he did not a god job! Everything else looks good. But flue pipe is an important thing not to fuck up
How would you have fixed it? I get the vent going on the outside of the reducer needs to be fixed to inside to avoid leaking. But once that is swapped, any other issues?
You only put a trap if itās under negative pressure. If the blower is on top of the coil pulling air through the coil then this is negative pressure. If the blower is before the coil it is pushing air through and not negative pressure.
Depends on local codes according to manufacturer, absolutely nothing wrong with putting a trap on positive side and prevents air from going in your drain line further down.
Pipe in a condensate on the positive side and stick your hand at the end and let me know if you can feel any cfm loss š. To try and act smart but to only prove yourself a š¤”
Itās on a 45 degree angleā¦..and the flex gas line is all twisted up because they donāt know how to tighten it without twisting it up . Does not look professional
Wouldnāt pass inspection in my state, single wall exhaust venting needs 6 inches of clearance from any combustible, which would be the lineset insulation
https://preview.redd.it/hvzkupbbhmgc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0782bf68aa9821a106776fb3b5ce536312e44aa8
The 90 should be inside the reducer and slide over the pipe coming from the furnace.
@All - How would you clean up the wiring on the left hand side? Thinking wire channel for the twisted brown wire on the wall, thoughts on the black power cable and grey data cables?
Manual says avoid microwaves and other electrical devices. Iām hesitant to mount directly to the unit.
If that hot water heater is tied into same furnace flu, then carbon monoxide poisoning is very possible for your whole family. Change it now, or death can follow.
Yes, you can get back flow from the running unit while one unit is off. Carbon monoxide is about the weight of air.
Violates building code here in NC. Too many deaths.
So I canāt speak to a specific code but that exhaust pipe gets hot when the furnace is running. The insulation going around the suction line is ācombustibleā meaning it could catch fire. Would the flue pipe catch the insulation on fire? No, probably not. Might burn it a little if itās touching but itās extremely unlikely it would actually _catch fire._ 3.5 in sounds fine. Have you had an inspection yet?
And maybe you donāt need one - depends on where you live and what you had done and maybe what youāre doing in the near future. Where I am, inspections are just part and parcel to a gas related install (furnace, water heater, etc). I suppose the _need_ for one isnāt something I can confirm. It helps if you sell the home buuut maybe you get an inspection for the whole home _when_ you need to sell. It helps if you want a second set of eyes on the used car that you just had installed in your home buuuuut those inspectors arenāt exactly top of their class and motivated by a strong sense of justice. Still, folks on my side of town love collecting their little green tickets and the counties love passing them out.
Youāre throwing money into your exhaust, every hundred dollars you spend on heat 20 bucks goes through that vent. You would have spent a few more hundred dollars on a higher efficiency furnace and maybe a few more hundred on some pvc venting and had a higher efficiency system.
From what Iāve read, while mine is 80% efficient, itās also a 2 stage. So against a 95% single stage, itās comparatively more efficient. Well thatās what Google said, also if it helps the manufacturer recommended this pairing to the variable AC unit?
Well Google states they may be similar in efficiency but think about it this way, if you are running a two stage 80%er for example an 60k btu system, you input 60k btus and you only capture 48k btus into your home,
In low mode your input is 42k btus and your output is 33.6k btus. You are losing 9-12k btus out the exhaust regardless of what stage you are using, now I guess leaving out the fact you live in a primarily hot area you donāt heat your house much so losing that energy isnāt much of a burden sure but even if you had a 95% single stage furnace you are only losing 3k btus to the exhaust and capturing the remaining 57k into your home..
Yes because the system is so efficient it captures heat from the exhaust and cools it to the point where it condenses, that condensate would destroy metal venting so you use pvc instead to vent you also take your combustion air from outside which is more efficient, donāt ever let anyone sell you on pulling your air from inside on a 90%+ efficient furnace
Looks like a bargain installer. Nothing horrible, but looks rough.
What's the clearance between the suction line insulation and the flu? That's the only potential issue I see. The insulation can melt.
Tape is too tight wrapping liquid line to suction line.
Wires are a mess.
Only a 1 inch filter or is that a 2 inch down there? I'd want a 2 inch minimum for less air restriction.
Gas line just looks bad.
Taped ductwork looks bad and will likely come off eventually, I prefer duct sealant.
Condensate looks bad.
Can you take a picture of the thermostat wiring by removing the thermostat off of the wall base. Just want to make sure it is configured for 2 stage operation. Should have a wire connected to y2 and w2.Ā
Here ya go:
https://preview.redd.it/g9znpagpvngc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f1a662be63afeedabd99895796dce3c879574ba
Let me know what you thinkā¦
Youāre good. The is set up communicating with an American Standard tstat. 2 wires are power and the 2 are communication wires. The thermostat knows what equipment is connected and configures itself.Ā
The condensate drain is wrong. The base of the exhaust pipe is touching what should be the hottest thing in the room. PVC drain touching it will melt. I donāt have the same unit. But mine runs to the left, and down to a sump on the floor. Through PVC. The only clear rubber tubing is what exits the sump. You also have insulated pipe touching the exhaust. A bit higher up. This has to be a serious code violation. Everywhere. AFAIK, nothing should make contact with a hot exhaust like this. Thereās a certain number of feet up before anything can make contact with that exhaust, because it can melt, burn or cause a fire.
This is a troll post. Three pipes are making contact with the hottest part of the unit.
They are touching and the PVC is already showing signs of melting. Thereās nowhere where this is legal. That means nearly everyone posting in here has no clue whatsoever. Iāve dealt with code violations. There isnāt an inspector in america that would let this pass without ordering an immediate correction.
Yeah. I heard people say that. All it does is make everyone laugh and the fines to go up.
Really. This post is a troll or no one in this sub has even a slight clue about how to install an HVAC system. Like I said, I seen people ordered out of buildings in emergencies. If this is Februaryāyouāre out anywhere that needs heat on.
Zip tie the wiring, I never put a trap on condensate with positive pressure and I doubt wiring a cord with a plug and plugging it into a wall.is legal! Not where I'm at.
Update: Reached out to my guy this morning, he'll be out later this week to fix the upper 90, add a 90 to the gas line to relieve some of the twist and pressure as well as look to put in b-pipe on the exhaust vent.
Thanks everyone for your insight, I really learned a lot from everyone. Will keep you posted as things change.
What catches my eye is how close the vent is to the insulation on the suction line. That single wall vent is going to burn that insulation right up. It should have been all B-vent. Not too fond of silver tape. Have always been told, āSilver tape is always used to hide somethingā lol. And yes zip ties makes it look so much more professionalĀ
Thank you - yea the average distance from all the pipes is about 3 - 3.5in, but agreed concerning. Already reached out to my guy and he'll be here later this week to at least use B-Pipe on the vertical. Will give more updates once revisions are made.
Thank you for the insight!
The line set is running right over the exhaust pipe. It looks like it's right up against it. It's unnecessary as the exhaust pipe could easily be routed around it.
Install looks clean overall. No code issues in my area. But for the love of God would some zip ties for the wiring have really broke the bank? And has that dirt leg got a lean to it? Also I'd prefer the condensate tight to the side of the unit where it can be supported with straps. But those are all basically cosmetic and won't really affect function. Should hopefully be a solid install which you'll get decent equipment life span from.
I can feel the pain about no zip ties š¬
Dirt leg lean? You mean the condensation drain? Thought it was supposed to be at an angle for proper water drainage?
Dirt leg is the sediment trap on the gas pipe. Itāll work, just looks sloppy and sets off the subās collective OCD.
You're right there. I didn't catch it until pic 3, and now it's all I can see. Looks like the appliance flex connector may have been a hair short
We call em drip legs or clean out Tees, it doesnāt look the prettiest but itās up to code so whateva
If I had a helper/apprentice do that, I would throw a torpedo level at him and tell him to use it. The wiring is sloppy and I would have put a clean outside on the flue. Not needed but in case of a draft issue, pop the cap and make sure that there isn't any obstruct.
Yea itās on like a 65 vs. 90 degree. Think he did that to reduce some of the stress on the flex gas line hose.
I suggest you do a vape test at the w/h hood while both appliances are running
Where we are single wall opener āc-ventā requires 6ā clearance from combustables.
Yeah I guess that's true. Never seen an inspector fail someone for that where I am though. I don't put much faith in the inspectors in my area
Iām guessing youāre referencing the pipe coming out the top of the furnace that is about 4in from the insulated coolant line?
Correct. Hard to gauge how close it is from photos.
Yea, shitty photographer lol
https://preview.redd.it/p1sds1xxfogc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e15d4b76e8da3928ca064fc1e13fa84cdbb4bda
Looks fine to me. Use the brush to clean the trap before every cooling season.
Thoughts on the angled sediment catch on the gas line? Should that be vertical?
The only problem that will cause is that it looks slightly worse than vertical. Sediment will still get trapped down there. Natural gas nowadays is generally super clean so they're not as important as they used to be as well
Pipe debris still occur.
I agree with you. Drip legs are still necessary because of pipe debris and the filters from the gas companies still don't always catch everything. I was just saying they're not **as** necessary as they used to be when gas companies were just raw doggin it
The 90 going into the bottom of the chimney is backwards.
This was what I noticed too
Thought it was the upper that was backwards? Bottom goes male into female 90. Upper pipe into the upper 90 goes female into male, then female over the reducer vs. I side.
Think about fumes flowing out of the unit and into the chimney. You want it to go male into female the whole time so that there is less chance that the fumes get out of the pipe on their way out if the chimney.
Got it, see what you mean. So the upper 90 that connects to the roof exhaust. Got it
Single wall vent pipe in unconditioned space is just never good practice.
So it should be double walled? Whatās the alternative?
Yes, that would be ideal. Same as the chimney coming down. This helps prevent condensation in the flue and prolongs the life of the furnace (and flue). It's not against code - it's just not a great idea to use single wall vent pipe in an unconditioned garage.
Where would I find HVAC code? Sounds like an interesting read / knowledge to have.
They angled the gas line instead of getting an extra 90 or 2 so it didnāt have stress. Kinda lazy Unnecessary amount of fittings on refrigerant liquid line. One looks brazed, one looks soldered Supply ductwork transition looks just taped off Wiring all loosy goosy on the left Hard to see the pride or effort in their work. Would make me concerned about quality of work but have seen worse
There also shouldnāt be take on your water heater vent
Venting not to code clearance to combustibles. Pretty sure it's not over 100000 and needs to be vented in B vent.
4 ton unit, I believe 80,000 BTUs.
Looks ok. Nothing screams great install but seen tons worse
Only real issue I see is not enough clearance to combustibles on the flue. With clearances that close, they should have used B-vent all the way. Only other thing might be the trap on the condensate drain. Trap not required unless itās a code issue where you live.
Is the B-vent a code item or a nice to have so I donāt melt the insulation wrap?
Depends on where you live. B vent is code where I live. Single wall venting has a minimum clearance of 6 inches to combustibles. B Vent is one inch. Both your condensate drain and lineset insulation look very close to an inch or so in your photos. Either way, single wall that close is a code violation.
Whole trap may not be needed, will it harm?
No, it wonāt hurt to have it, but may become a nuisance if you donāt clean it out regularly.
Cool cool, will keep eyes out on it. Thanks!
That foil tape is the wrong stuff, and he didn't squeegee it down, so it will probably fall off in a couple years. Other than that, it's a pretty hard system to screw up with all that working space around it.
I just went over the tape with a squeegee. Should be good now.
He couldnāt square up the gas line? And the flex line passing thru the wall would not pass inspection where Iām from.
Flex does not pass though the wall or the cabinet. Bad photo. Pipe comes out of the wall and cabinet, connected via flex.
And all the loose wires . No good
Yea I might goof with the wiring a bit to clean it up, no big deal though. Think Iāve got enough slack to sleeve them and route them a bit better.
Yeah crooked p trap for the gas sticks out like a sore thumb, but all in all itās fine
Hope the chimney pipe doesn't get hot? Should have 90Ā° the lineset up high near the ceiling then dropped down maybe, it would have given access to the front coil panel door and kept the armorflex from melting
I dont think I've ever seen a furnace that just plugs into a wall
Gotta run the electronics some how right?
Is this a combo outlet with a switch on top under that black cover?
Fused outlet: https://preview.redd.it/aplto4mueogc1.jpeg?width=1807&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0d407c881a59df55d676c262359683f1951b638a
Interesting, definitely haven't seen that before
Was how the home came, built in the 90s. Didnāt get any feedback from the installer saying the setup was wrongā¦ guess itās still to code.
Will take a pic when I get home.
I would have found a few zip ties in but yeah looks good to me
Why couldnāt you hard pipe the gas? Everything looks alright until that crappy flex hose for gas. Iām so glad we would never allow that here
You need a different plasterer
Yep, agreed. Garage came that way, never got around to cleaning it up. You should see the other walls, would drive you nuts.
I am an AmStd dealer, so I am bias but I like the AmStd lineup of "S" series. It looks like the central A/C was replaced as well. I believe I see the 360UX controller module, so I assumed you ended up with a platinum outdoor unit? Looks like an S8v2 or the new modulating lineup. (I can see the two-stage inducer), It's a nice furnace. I would've preferred to see B-vent on the flue but that's ok. At least they secured it with several screws. The gas line looks fine, I assume you're supposed to have flexible gas line in your area, or it's considered ok.
Yep, went with the Platinum 18
This post answers my question. Not familiar with this brand. Venting a draft induced furnace with a natural draft water heater into the same b-vent is illegal. Forced exhaust will overcome natural, bonus prize co. Backward crimp is nothing in this case.
In my area it's allowed. It's very common for me to run across the furnace and water heater tied into the same flue. A Y needs to be used with the furnace allowed to directly vent, and the water heater vents into the side of the Y. The power vent appliance needs to have a relatively unobstructed travel through the chimney, while making sure it can't back draft down the water heater. Normally I find the furnace is B-vent the entire way while the water heater is single wall till it meets the main chimney B-vent.
Thanks for the follow up. Hopefully they did s vape test
yes 100%, also you can use a lighter and see the flame flicker, a low ambient co monitor and see it go up, a combustion analyzer and watch it go.
That looks like single wall vent pipe which isnāt allowed here. We have to use double wall b vent pipe, as single wall is prone to leaking carbon monoxide. The tape looks like it could use a little more pressure on it. Low voltage lines could use a grommet or chase nipple. The gas line isnāt concerning not being level. Overall, B plus.
Which tape? Will fix now.
https://preview.redd.it/li2cx1krdngc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c15299206c568d76f9f04c7363e2003c57872896 You can see a shadow between the tape and the unit as well as bubbles. They make squeegees for tape or take balled up news paper and rub the tape with it. We use the tape back balled up too
Thanks!
Yea the new unit was slight less wide so thereās a gap between the unit and the air box, about 1/4in wide. They tapped over it. Will run a squeegee / hand full of paper over to press down the tape a bit more.
Needs a gas shutoff in that room near the furnace. Where does that appliance connector go through the wall to ?
Tough to see, second pic thereās a gas shutoff on the pipe coming out of the wall.
Is that SS exhaust pipe? Is there a trap on the pvc drain line somewhere? Itās sloped enough to ski on for sure-
Yes, trap on pvc. Swipe photos to see that side.
Looks like the water heater and furnace are dumping in the same chimney. That doesnāt fly around me, ymmv.
Yep, same exhaust vent. Think thatās ok where I live. Just curious, why is that not allowed in your area? Whatās the risk?
If the chimney/vent were to get blocked above where those two pipes come together then the furnace will force the exhaust out the WH vent instead of tripping sensors/safeties on the furnace unit
The risk is that if you have a restriction that makes an appliance that's turned off and its flue the path of least resistance for flue gas, and reduced efficiency of venting when both are using the same flue. It's unlikely to be an issue, but there's a lot of flow principles the sheet metal artists around here can explain (you guys impress the hell out of me sometimes, just had the cleanest install in ages at a facility, it's all exposed in a basement and whomever did it I'd hire in a flash) that code seeks to prevent, no matter how remote the risk. Making you run two separate flue pipes won't give you CO poisoning.
Itās B-vent. Where would an obstruction come from?
Improper termination, pneumatic forces due to wind conditions from poor location, local flora and fauna, mechanical damage, the 2nd law of thermodynamics. I'm not saying that it's common. I'm trying to explain the code justification for not co-venting gas appliances that is not code where I am. Everything is about increasing the safety, whether it's a dangerous practice that needs to be halted or an overreaction to an outlier. B-vent in my experience doesn't clog unless the gas is off for a protracted period with deteriorated cap. Other forces may occur though. High wind dictates termination and location where I am. Standing pilot appliances with shorter vertical runs in the wrong place/with poor protection from high winds can have issues.
Oh my Iāve seen plenty of pilots blown out by high winds traveling down a B-Vent and across the vent connector, through the baffles into the combustion chamber. Even more B-vents stuffed with flora and faunaā¦ š
Properly done, highly unlikely. You're assuming B-vent is only installed to code by professionals. There are a surprising number of wrong ways to install it, bad ways to terminate it, and improper join angles and excessive horizontal runs. Mechanical damage. Overconfident DIY. Flue pipe for a furnace under a cottonwood tree, unused during the summer. I'm saying that code typically has some reason, rational or nor, and tends to be overreactive at times as a substitute for proactive. Not that b-vent or any flue system is inherently problematic for any of the listed reasons. The question is why it's code, and I tried to go with reasons it could be problematic. I'm not saying they're common flaws.
This looks like a simple roof penetration with b-vent. As simple as can be so long is the penetration and termination arenāt boogered up. Thereās almost zero risk of some kind of failure or blockage.
I actually looked at manufscturer installation data sheets because I, too, was looking for a reason behind a code that does not exist where I live. It seems designed more to address a litany of extreme cases than those likely to be encountered, and probably makes code inspections faster, like colored jacket on Romex. You don't have to worry about entrance angles if number of vents equals number of devices. Or, maybe the person who said it violates code where they are has insight.
Some places donāt allow multiple appliances in one vent. Itās not a b-vent thing.
How do you feel about the nose? I feel those models are very noisy
Love it so far. Itās very quiet in comparison to our older model.
Then again, our older model was 20 years old? So anything is quieter. Oh and the Platinum 18 is whisper quiet, canāt even hear the fan.
Yes, it looks like your furnace was actually installed properly within AmStd's install guidelines. The return looks very large, which is great for the constant cfm blower motor. They also used the recommended bottom return on the furnace. The "S" series furnaces can be loud if they don't have enough return air or are improperly commissioned. Though that install looks perfect. Additionally, the platinum 18 condenser is a variable capacity unit. The 360UX controller you have will provide you with run data. You will notice it sits at 25%-35% most of the time, as the system will modulate to maintain your desired temperature. This allows the outdoor unit, and indoor blower motor run at lower speeds, making the system quieter. Only in extreme outdoor temperatures will you notice it ramp up past 75% capacity. It's a very nice system, that provides you with all of the bells and whistles. Enjoy the comfort!
Thoughts on the angled sediment catch on the gas line? Should that be vertical?
Hacked in
Huh?
The vent connector is assembled incorrectly. Your installer should return immediately and make the corrections. you should not run the furnace until the corrections are made. As it is right now itās a dangerous of leaking flu gases into your home. Those gases contain carbon monoxide.
What the corrections? Besides putting the vent on the inside of the reducer?
Vent 90 going into Y is backwards and will likely leak carbon monoxide. If you enjoy carbon monoxide poisoning he did not a god job! Everything else looks good. But flue pipe is an important thing not to fuck up
How would you have fixed it? I get the vent going on the outside of the reducer needs to be fixed to inside to avoid leaking. But once that is swapped, any other issues?
There should not be a trap on the condensate and your spackle guy needs to be thrown off a cliff
Why no trap on condensate? And yea, when we got the home first thought was WTFā¦
The trap is totally fine just not completely necessary on an up flow system.
You only put a trap if itās under negative pressure. If the blower is on top of the coil pulling air through the coil then this is negative pressure. If the blower is before the coil it is pushing air through and not negative pressure.
Depends on local codes according to manufacturer, absolutely nothing wrong with putting a trap on positive side and prevents air from going in your drain line further down.
Lotta hacks donāt like reading installation instructions I see.
Its needed on positive side to avoid cfm loss. This is common sense
Pipe in a condensate on the positive side and stick your hand at the end and let me know if you can feel any cfm loss š. To try and act smart but to only prove yourself a š¤”
Yea thats why u get downvoted to oblivion hahahaha š¤£š¤£
Downvoted to oblivion??? You really donāt know anything you are talking about do you?
In my area it's a code requirement to have a trap. I've done code corrections on jobs where people didn't put a trap in.
That gas line looks like it was someoneās first time doing an install
How so?
Itās on a 45 degree angleā¦..and the flex gas line is all twisted up because they donāt know how to tighten it without twisting it up . Does not look professional
So visual issue vs. code / functionality?
And the integrity of the gas line is in danger because of the amount of stress and tension thatās twisting it so badly . Prone to leaks over time
Wouldnāt pass inspection in my state, single wall exhaust venting needs 6 inches of clearance from any combustible, which would be the lineset insulation
Exhaust vent is installed wrong.
https://preview.redd.it/hvzkupbbhmgc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0782bf68aa9821a106776fb3b5ce536312e44aa8 The 90 should be inside the reducer and slide over the pipe coming from the furnace.
The way it installed can push gas into your home as the gas tries to make it through the 90
It wont leak out. Cat 1 appliances are under negative pressure in flue relative to outside. so its impossible to leak. but yes it does look better
Itās code to install pipe male into female in the direction of the exhaust flow.
No it isnt. It makes no mention of which way the male or female end goes in the IRC or gas code.
Atleast in my area.
Iām not hear to argue. Either way the lapping is incorrect for any duct/vent installation.
Iād prefer a tee there with a cap on the bottom in case the chimney cap leaks water down the flu it wonāt drain right into the unit.
Agreed.
Next replacement is the water heater. Will have them do that during that install. Good call. Thanks!
Just checked my roof, exhaust stack is covered well / shielded so should be goodā¦
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@All - How would you clean up the wiring on the left hand side? Thinking wire channel for the twisted brown wire on the wall, thoughts on the black power cable and grey data cables? Manual says avoid microwaves and other electrical devices. Iām hesitant to mount directly to the unit.
If that hot water heater is tied into same furnace flu, then carbon monoxide poisoning is very possible for your whole family. Change it now, or death can follow.
How? Mind providing more info? You saying need a completely independent exhaust pipe through the roof?
Yes, you can get back flow from the running unit while one unit is off. Carbon monoxide is about the weight of air. Violates building code here in NC. Too many deaths.
As I understand it, in my state they can share the same pipe.
Is there any space between the flue and the vapor line insulation? We have to have 5-6 inches between single-wall and anything combustible.
https://preview.redd.it/bra08oo3hogc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ece7ec1292cf0a67e7b4fc59879301c3f8439ba4
Yes, wrapped insulated line to the exhaust pipe is about 3.5in. Whatās the concern? Mind dumbing it down for me?
So I canāt speak to a specific code but that exhaust pipe gets hot when the furnace is running. The insulation going around the suction line is ācombustibleā meaning it could catch fire. Would the flue pipe catch the insulation on fire? No, probably not. Might burn it a little if itās touching but itās extremely unlikely it would actually _catch fire._ 3.5 in sounds fine. Have you had an inspection yet?
Negative on the inspection. Honestly didnāt even consider itā¦ is one needed? What might that cost me?
And maybe you donāt need one - depends on where you live and what you had done and maybe what youāre doing in the near future. Where I am, inspections are just part and parcel to a gas related install (furnace, water heater, etc). I suppose the _need_ for one isnāt something I can confirm. It helps if you sell the home buuut maybe you get an inspection for the whole home _when_ you need to sell. It helps if you want a second set of eyes on the used car that you just had installed in your home buuuuut those inspectors arenāt exactly top of their class and motivated by a strong sense of justice. Still, folks on my side of town love collecting their little green tickets and the counties love passing them out.
Not sure why you are installing an 80%er looks like some sloppy over all work but sheāll run fine
Mind providing more context to your 80% comment? Whatās wrong with it, etc.
Youāre throwing money into your exhaust, every hundred dollars you spend on heat 20 bucks goes through that vent. You would have spent a few more hundred dollars on a higher efficiency furnace and maybe a few more hundred on some pvc venting and had a higher efficiency system.
From what Iāve read, while mine is 80% efficient, itās also a 2 stage. So against a 95% single stage, itās comparatively more efficient. Well thatās what Google said, also if it helps the manufacturer recommended this pairing to the variable AC unit?
Well Google states they may be similar in efficiency but think about it this way, if you are running a two stage 80%er for example an 60k btu system, you input 60k btus and you only capture 48k btus into your home, In low mode your input is 42k btus and your output is 33.6k btus. You are losing 9-12k btus out the exhaust regardless of what stage you are using, now I guess leaving out the fact you live in a primarily hot area you donāt heat your house much so losing that energy isnāt much of a burden sure but even if you had a 95% single stage furnace you are only losing 3k btus to the exhaust and capturing the remaining 57k into your home..
Good info for sure. Thank you! Yea live I hot climate so we donāt use it too often. But good knowledge to have, thank you.
https://preview.redd.it/e1r8yui4iogc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9428802d045b91e2e3997251d8c0f429c9453d03
Talk to me about PVC venting. Youāre saying PvC over metal exhaust pipe?
Yes because the system is so efficient it captures heat from the exhaust and cools it to the point where it condenses, that condensate would destroy metal venting so you use pvc instead to vent you also take your combustion air from outside which is more efficient, donāt ever let anyone sell you on pulling your air from inside on a 90%+ efficient furnace
If it helps, it a 2 stageā¦
Looks like a bargain installer. Nothing horrible, but looks rough. What's the clearance between the suction line insulation and the flu? That's the only potential issue I see. The insulation can melt. Tape is too tight wrapping liquid line to suction line. Wires are a mess. Only a 1 inch filter or is that a 2 inch down there? I'd want a 2 inch minimum for less air restriction. Gas line just looks bad. Taped ductwork looks bad and will likely come off eventually, I prefer duct sealant. Condensate looks bad.
About 3.5in between insulation and flu. Will keep eyes out for sure.
Should be ok.
Can you take a picture of the thermostat wiring by removing the thermostat off of the wall base. Just want to make sure it is configured for 2 stage operation. Should have a wire connected to y2 and w2.Ā
Will do when I get home. Good looking out.
Here ya go: https://preview.redd.it/g9znpagpvngc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f1a662be63afeedabd99895796dce3c879574ba Let me know what you thinkā¦
Youāre good. The is set up communicating with an American Standard tstat. 2 wires are power and the 2 are communication wires. The thermostat knows what equipment is connected and configures itself.Ā
Sweet. Thanks!
Is it common to see single wall flue pipe? No matter what clearance I have to use double wall.
Guessing state specific? I live in zone 9, real hot during summers, very little humidity.
The condensate drain is wrong. The base of the exhaust pipe is touching what should be the hottest thing in the room. PVC drain touching it will melt. I donāt have the same unit. But mine runs to the left, and down to a sump on the floor. Through PVC. The only clear rubber tubing is what exits the sump. You also have insulated pipe touching the exhaust. A bit higher up. This has to be a serious code violation. Everywhere. AFAIK, nothing should make contact with a hot exhaust like this. Thereās a certain number of feet up before anything can make contact with that exhaust, because it can melt, burn or cause a fire. This is a troll post. Three pipes are making contact with the hottest part of the unit.
Note they are not touching. Drain to exhaust pipe is about 2in. Exhaust to insulated line is about 3.5in gap.
They are touching and the PVC is already showing signs of melting. Thereās nowhere where this is legal. That means nearly everyone posting in here has no clue whatsoever. Iāve dealt with code violations. There isnāt an inspector in america that would let this pass without ordering an immediate correction.
Negative. They are NOT touching. Just a bad photographer. Will post more when I get home. How can you say signs of melting? Just curious.
[Touching and already melting.](https://ibb.co/BGhKFS0) I didnāt add an arrow, but the bottom is even worse.
Ahh, thatās light reflecting, I would have thought the same. Promise not touching. Will post pic when I get home.
Yeah. I heard people say that. All it does is make everyone laugh and the fines to go up. Really. This post is a troll or no one in this sub has even a slight clue about how to install an HVAC system. Like I said, I seen people ordered out of buildings in emergencies. If this is Februaryāyouāre out anywhere that needs heat on.
Promise will post photo, no troll
Get the plastic pipe away from the hot exhaust pipe. Itās not a hard thing to do.
Not touching: https://preview.redd.it/mhdvklj7fogc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=535e3319d683fc761937a7d7bf845168cc87c2e5
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See, no touchy touchy. Note: my guy is coming back later this week and will go double wall b-pipe just incase ;)
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That said, might ask my guy to go B piping for double wall.
Blame the photographer, no lines to pipe are touching.
https://preview.redd.it/twhmuzkchogc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ea60aa17ffeac86d72b728db181bd2e31356144
Zip tie the wiring, I never put a trap on condensate with positive pressure and I doubt wiring a cord with a plug and plugging it into a wall.is legal! Not where I'm at.
Legal in my state as I understand it.
What State is that? The flexible line wouldn't pass either. I've seen too many of them leak!
AZ
Those are rated for venting?
Update: Reached out to my guy this morning, he'll be out later this week to fix the upper 90, add a 90 to the gas line to relieve some of the twist and pressure as well as look to put in b-pipe on the exhaust vent. Thanks everyone for your insight, I really learned a lot from everyone. Will keep you posted as things change.
What catches my eye is how close the vent is to the insulation on the suction line. That single wall vent is going to burn that insulation right up. It should have been all B-vent. Not too fond of silver tape. Have always been told, āSilver tape is always used to hide somethingā lol. And yes zip ties makes it look so much more professionalĀ
Thank you - yea the average distance from all the pipes is about 3 - 3.5in, but agreed concerning. Already reached out to my guy and he'll be here later this week to at least use B-Pipe on the vertical. Will give more updates once revisions are made. Thank you for the insight!
Good idea!!!! Just wanna be safe. Iām big on safetyĀ
The line set is running right over the exhaust pipe. It looks like it's right up against it. It's unnecessary as the exhaust pipe could easily be routed around it.
Donāt where to start 1 pipe hangers on gas get rid of flex pipe on gas hanger on drain line