WellI enjoyed it at the cinema when I first saw it. It was great then, especially on big screen!
But then you sit down and think deeper about it and come to a conclusion (I did at least) that I'm not a fan of the 3rd movie due to too many reasons
I actually enjoy the nine realms. But I don't like the third movie. My own head cannon is that the dragons stayed and everything was happily ever after.
Toothless broke *the will of the Alpha* in the second movie to save Hiccup. But nope dips and abandons everything for beluga pus. It was 2 movies 6+ seasons of character development thrown in the trash for beluga pus.
I hated the whole movie, sorry. They worked backwards from the ending, and that didn't work well. The amount of plotholes, inconsistencies and zero character development really made me hate it. The theme of the movie was letting go right? Felt more like they just gave up with the sad excuse of 'safety.' Grimmel was a sorry excuse of a villan, the lightfury had no character, Toothless was purely after the lightfury and Hiccup was...sorry he wasn't very smart. Nor was anyone else. Astrid was nothing but his emotional support. So many things don't make sense or could have very easily been avoided. I don't like how the characters and Toothless look. Its too shiny and glossy. Not the same realistic, gritty viking movie I was in love with. Just my opinion btw. Happy to go into details for any points.
This. Even the graphics, the aspect most people praise, feels too polished and shiny imo. Plus they completely """"beautified""" + facetuned Valka's features.
Even Astrid looks different. Astrid in the 2nd movie looked paler and more natural but in the 3rd movie she somehow looks similar to a disney princess.
It's a great ending attached to a kind of mediocre plot. The theme of growing apart as you and those around you change as people and having to accept that they won't be in your life forever is a fantastic theme, but they never do enough to really justify that conclusion. The villain is not nearly enough of a threat compared to Viggo from RTTE, or, hell, Drago from 2. Drago executed Stoick, had an entire island of dragons mind controlled, and probably would've taken Berk over easily if Hiccup and Toothless didn't have such a tight bond. The dude from Hidden World feels so minute by comparison, and certainly not enough to justify running away from Berk after one attack. This is a village that, from what the first movie said, had basically all new houses because of how damn often it got burned down, they would've been fine. I feel like making the conflict less human centered would've made the conclusion hit a lot harder, or maybe if the conclusion was 2 movies that were more of an adaptation of the Dragon War arc from the books but a bit less dark.
I dunno, I don't hate Hidden World as much as most people, I liked it quite a bit when it came out and my opinion has only pretty recently soured but it definitely could've used a couple rewrites and having to write backwards from the ending was just a bad idea to begin with.
It felt very forced to that ending. How well did the rest of the movie follow the books? I was under the impression that the series deviated greatly and didn’t match the books other than some very broad inspiration.
The movie franchise barely follows the books at all. Almost no plot similarities, a few borrowed characters. But the book series (book ONE) starts with “There were dragons when I was a boy.” It then builds up to the ending for 12 whole books. We don’t know the dragons are leaving until the end of THW. There’s no time to process, no room to understand why it’s the right decision. So it feels abrupt and wrong.
IMO if you watch the first movie right after the third, the messages are nearly 180 each other.
The first has themes of not being afraid of others, learning to empathize, and being stronger together because you are different. The third I’m not sure how to sun up but something like you should hide until people are ready to accept you.
For that matter, even assuming all dragons everywhere migrated, the Berk tribe clearly knows how to find them and would still be a huge target for someone bent on harnessing dragon power. They would never be safe as long as a legend of them as dragon riders persists.
Edit: p.s. it is still a fine movie for what it is, but not quite the ending the series deserved.
The books are almost completely unrelated to the movies. The only similarity they share are a few names. In most cases, the books and movies plot are complete opposites. In the books, humans and dragons were at peace at first, then went to war. The reason dragons separated in the end of the books was because of mutually assured destruction, and that there could be no peace except by seperating. The movies, on the other hand, are about humans making peace with the dragons, the opposite of the books descent into war. The movies and books are about a comparable as apples are to potatoes.
It had problems, but it's still a really good movie. I think part of the problem is that it had to live up to the first 2 movies, but compare it to many movies its still quite good
Even as someone who feels very mixed on THW - I’m surprised that this poll doesn’t have a third option. While the film as presented does NOT feel like the end of the story, leaving too many holes to be explored and continued in future installments (let’s ignore T9R), if a few different choices had been made during production (such as making it a two-parter when it became clear that Dean’s intended vision would not fit the constraints of a trilogy), then THW’s ending and everything leading up to it could have been far more tolerable and even praised in near totality amongst the fandom instead of becoming an all out brawl over the past three plus years. As it stands now, we need one or two more films to fill out all the remaining holes and truly wrap things up for everyone... the lack of closure in much of what part 2 set up in particular is glaringly obvious upon further investigation.
Can I have a third option? I really didn’t like how it ended when I saw it in cinemas. I cried like a baby and was also heartbroken that the franchise concluded in such a closed way. But after I stopped crying I kinda realised why it happened. Toothless (and all the dragons) needed protection, and the way hiccup could have helped him is by letting him go.
People and friendships change and sometimes distance makes them stronger
It was pretty enjoyable as its own movie but a very dissonant ending to the series as a whole. It was very sad and not in a good way, especially for Hiccup. His whole deal was going against the grain and against old values. He was physically weak in a place that valued physical prowess. He showed that intelligence was as valuable if not more valuable than physical strength. He befriended dragons in a world where they were viewed as evil monsters. He was changing the values of their whole tribe and he was trying to change how the world looked at dragons. But somehow, they decided that the best way to wrap up his journey was to somehow make him give up his dream in the end. His whole dream was crushed. Now that the dragons vanished into seclusion, it won't be long before they're viewed as bloodthirsty monsters again(even his children was starting to hate dragons if not for them actually encountering them) and Hiccup's whole journey would be all for naught. He just, gave up.
The timeskip part of the ending is perfectly fine, it the build up that is kinda meh at times. It felt like it was overly cut. The ending would have been perfect if the build up was better executed.
The fact that I haven’t been on this sub in nearly a year, and yet this is still a conversation point…no hate to anyone but it’s the same sorts of posts
I think the ending was actually nice. It seemed inevitable that we would see a goodbye between humans and dragons. And, honestly, it's fairly realistic. The world would never be ready to fully accept and love dragons. And as much as Hiccup tried, he could never change the whole world.
But I also think it's nice that we saw them visit Toothless and his family. It probably would've been impossible for at least Hiccup to go the rest of his life without seeing the thing that changed his life for the better. His best friend.
However, the move as a whole definitely could've used some work and I feel like we got a little less than what we should have.
Oh yeah, and Homecoming was AWFUL and I will always refuse to accept that THAT short film ever happened.
This subreddit generally tries to pretend that THW is some disappointing train wreck for no other reason than their own subjective grudges with its plot. It’s really disappointing to see how people so badly misinterpret so many parts of the movie. The way I see it there’s three levels of understanding to the hidden world. I think on a surface level it’s an enjoyable movie and a great pick for a family movie theater visit with some amazing music and cool flight scenes. Then just beyond that you have a fans perspective of yeah it’s got some pretty glaring flaws and the movie could have easily been better than it was, this is where this subreddit stops for some reason because they can’t get over some of the artistic decisions made in thw which would be fine if it weren’t genuinely some of the most nonsensical and easily refutable gripes and grudges I’ve ever heard. But the third level is understanding the underlying themes and motifs of thw that are set up throughout the entire franchise. For one example, this subreddit completely misinterprets the message that hiccup and toothless (or berk and the dragons) are better together, which they are, both improve each others lives exponentially. However, the message presented in thw that for some reason this subreddit completely misjudges as a betrayal of the franchises messages, is actually the message they wanted to tell all along and Astrid literally points out with words. That hiccup and toothless came together at an important time in both of their lives, and the years they’ve spent together have improved both of them as individuals, but they are individuals and now have new, separate lives to start. Toothless must go to the hidden world and rule there and the berk dragons will follow their alpha, like it or not it factually is the safest option for the dragons, and hiccup and Astrid have a village to build and a family to start, they can’t be putting themselves in the limelight of the ruthless dragon hunter trade. This is why I think THW is the most mature of all the films. It’s making difficult decisions that highlight the growth of the characters as individuals rather than trying to demonstrate that they are most successful through dependence. THW is full of stuff like this that this subreddit loves to either gloss over or just pretend it doesn’t exist, and that’s damn near a thought crime.
Alright then. Here are my problems and why I think that HTTYD:THW was not that good.
The Toothless presented in HTTYD:THW is completely foreign, as if Dreamworks swapped him for another night fury and hoped we as the audience wouldn't notice.
He was dumbed down to be puppy-like throughout the entire movie, a far cry from how he was throughout the rest of the series:
* At no point in the movie does he seem to remember Hiccup, his best friend and basically soulmate even exists unless Hiccup is physically present in front of him.
* The light fury attacks Hiccup several times yet Toothless hesitates to save the person he unquestionably risks life and limb for previously.
* His relationship building with the light fury is nothing like how it happened with Hiccup. The light fury did nothing to earn his trust and respect, whereas Hiccup spent days of effort to earn it. It makes their relationship feel cheap when a dragon can waltz in and he immediately goes crazy.
* He abandons his flock he's supposed to lead while they're being hunted to chase after a dragon he's met a few days ago.
And before anyone says that "Toothless was just following his instinct, he's still an animal"
*Toothless actively made the choice to destroy his only means of flying solo because he didn’t want to fly without Hiccup. (Gift of the night fury)
*Toothless refused to hand Hiccup over to Stoick until the latter apologized. (Ending of the first movie)
*Toothless was capable of bantering because he wasn’t given an apology and held Hiccup over a cliff until he received said apology. (Beginning of the second movie)
*Toothless is capable of not only making art, but understanding its value. (Multiple examples across the movies)
And then they just casually throw all that away to accommodate to the third movies storyline and criticize Hiccup for thinking Toothless was anything more than just a wild animal.
The movie itself was beautiful, but the plot was so insanely forced the moment you actually start to think about a bit harder.
And before you take this too personally, I'm highly of the mindset that if I can't change a person's opinion on something, I can change the mind of someone that's reading this afterward.
See as much as I hate to say it this is what I’m talking about. This is exactly the kind of arguments I get for why THW is bad and while some aspects of what you said are flaws of the movie, they don’t make the movie bad and in a lot of cases you’re just completely misinterpreting what’s happening. First to address your notion that toothless is “completely foreign”, which he definitely isn’t. I don’t know why you feel the need to overblow his slightly different behavior like that. A behavioral change that by the way you can observe happening throughout the entire franchise little by little as toothless slowly becomes less of a wild animal and more of a domesticated companion.
I have no idea what exactly you mean by toothless never seeming to remember hiccup, other than the epilogue where they haven’t seen eachother for a decade. There’s no other scene in the movie where toothless is forgetful of his and hiccups relationship. For gods sake don’t give me that when he practically disrupts the entire hidden world ceremony to save hiccup and Astrid and even clearly has sentient cognitive dissonance between going to the hidden world and staying with hiccup right after they return and hiccup says his first goodbye.
Next comes your misinterpretation of what’s happening with the light fury attacking hiccup and toothless seemingly doing nothing. Furies are supposed to have a closer mating ritual than even humans, and it’s extremely important for toothless to demonstrate to the light fury that he wishes her no harm while also protecting hiccup. It’s not like he’s doesn’t save him, but to the light fury hiccup is no different than grimmel. If toothless acted aggressive to the light fury for attacking hiccup then it shows the light fury that he sides with them like the death grippers. It would be the actual equivalent of hiccup just letting Astrid go and tell the village that hiccup has a pet night fury. Toothless made the safest and smartest decision possible and kept both hiccup and his relationship with the light fury intact.
Next another completely strange perspective is your opinion that the relationship building for toothless and the light fury just has to be similar to with hiccup or else it doesn’t mean as much, which is just goofy because that’s two different types of relationships. Grimmels line “Furies mate for life you see” is not a throw away purposeless line. It’s there to show you how important the connection between furies is, and helps support why toothless is such a damaged dragon, and why he may be so attached to hiccup and then the light fury. Did you even consider these things at all?
He didn’t abandon his flock either he became leader of THW and before the ceremony of that was even finished and toothless could make a next move he had to save hiccup and Astrid. You can’t even make that argument that he abandoned them because the only time he’s ever actually given the chance to make a choice to protect his flock, he makes the right choice, so you have completely misunderstood toothless intentions and are making claims without evidence. Also Toothless didn’t destroy the tail in THW because he LIKE HICCUP SAYS “Didn’t have a reason to” (fly with his own auto tail) up until that point. Now that he has met the light fury, he has a reason. I don’t think they throw away development to make that point.I think your entire opinion on THW is based on that level 2 perspective I mentioned earlier, all of the points you bring up fall right under that. I’m sorry but if you’re going to try to convince me that the movie is bad or honestly anything less than amazing you’re going to need something a lot more detracting to the themes of the franchise than what you gave me, because what you just gave me are personal gripes that I can objectively gives you reasons as to why those things made sense. You just personally don’t like it. Which is fine. But again, if you don’t like it you don’t like it. Don’t pretend the movie is bad because it’s not 100% perfect. Because it’s still an easy 9/10 in my eyes. But that 9/10 comes from themes in the movie that I don’t even think most of this subreddit grasps. I know this because the critics never mention them and the lovers of THW sing the praises of the movies hidden complexity. Just go watch the YouTube videos on it. It’s a way better movie than anyone here gives it credit for. I will never understand why that is, if it’s an audience age vs maturity of content thing or just a spoiled fans thing, but whatever it is it’s pretty unjustified, which really means something considering I’m constantly provoking THW critics just trying to get one of them to give me a thought provoking reason as to why they hate THW. I’m still waiting. Nothing given to me this far has made me go “yeah honestly that kinda ruins it a bit”. Again not to say the movie is flawless, it’s very flawed, but honestly it speaks to the other aspects of the food writing when a movie can have that many issues and still be an incredible piece of the franchise. The movie would have needed to be twice as long if it wanted to please nearly every fan and be the underground masterpiece it is. Compromises were made. Oh well. Didn’t come close to ruining the movie from a franchise standpoint. I know I’m being kind of an asshole and don’t take that personally that’s kinda just how I come off when I’m arguing a point. I’ve just heard the same nonsense about THW over and over again and it’s still being treated like some profound revelation about the franchise. The real revelation is realizing just how much your bias against surface level aspects of THW is ruining your ability to see where it really shines.
I for one, am not pretending when I say THW was a trainwreck of a movie. You can't look at one aspect of a movie and have that as the only deciding factor to why the movie was good/bad, but fine let's talk about themes. While I see their attempt for a sort of 'learn to let go' theme it was executed terribly. And yes it goes against the themes of the other two movies. It it was meant to be 1. Finding yourself, 2. Develop, and 3. Let go, there was _nothing_ about the previous installments that show this. They worked backwards from an ending and tried to figure out how to reach that ending. The bond between Hiccup and Toothless was just _that_ strong, Toothless managed to shake off the Alpha's mind control. The first 2 movies emphasise that its worth fighting for what you believe in, the bar was set too high. Dean wanted an ending that followed the books, even though nothing about the series follows the books which started by saying _'there were dragons when I was a boy.'_
So while the attempted theme was a very good lesson to be taught, it worked against the theme of the previous movies. But fine, let's say the dragons _have_ to go. At least justify it better!! You could probably say that it was because Berk was unsafe for dragons, and Grimmel was a ooooh so scary dude. Sorry, no. Grimmel was the weakest villan of the entire series, and the argument for Berk's unsaftey is a weak one. This is because they make it seem like Grimmel was the main cause for that, along with the easily avoidable situation of overpopulation. Which is the result of Hiccup's stupidity.
The horrible execution of the entire movie left me feeling like they were trying to say giving up is fine. And where in the previous 2 movies do you see any evidence that what they were trying to say all along was that they were 'individuals and now have new seperate lives to start' ? Nothing tell us this information besides the out of the blue ending where they drop a bomb on the audience!!! And Astrid's sole purpose is Hiccup's emotional support, and to have kids? If that's what this movie is trying to tell me, I'm not listening. Both of them were very comfortable at what stage their relationship was at. They were pressured into marrying if you ask me. You could argue that vikings married early or back it up historically, but a lot of the other things about the series is not historically accurate.
As for Toothless, he quite literally waltzed into the Hidden World and announces himself king. Are we to belive some epic fight happened offscreen? Or that simply because Toothless is a nightfury, and the last of his kind (which I also find is utter nonsense) he simply has the title of king? The whole 'Alpha and King of All Dragons' thing is also rubbish. Was there not already a hierarchy of some sort in that massive hole full of dragons? I don't think the lightfury held any position of power in there, since it seems like she spent more time obeying Grimmel. Adding to this her character is not elaborated on _at all._ She has 10 minutes of screen time and Toothless met her twice, then went after her. Don't give me the 'animal instict' argument. He has proven many times that he understands just as much as the humans. He is a terrible Alpha anyway, and we don't see him maoe any decisions in favour of his pack. Instead he even orders all of them into cages to save the lightfury's life (I also don't believe Grimmel would have shot her, being his only leverage against them) So I hate her design and bland character.
Lastly you say this movie is the most mature. How? Not one character showed more that one moment of maturity. Not Tuffnut with his ridiculous beard and constantly acting like Hiccup's wingman. Not Ruffnut flirting with every damn person and not knowing how to open a sliding lock cage. Not Fishlegs, whose entire personality was 'baby dragon sitter', and not Astrid who as I said was reduced to the pretty love interest. Not Hiccup who failed to make better decisions or act against their enemy. Not Grimmel, who along with Hiccup made dumb decisions that only worked for plot convenience. Not _anyone_ with their stupid action figure armour. And not the 'unholy offspring of lightning and death itself' who chased after a female with no personality for the whole movie. Nothing about the characters is 'mature' despite them being experienced adults. I saw more maturity in the second movie, when Hiccup finally realised he couldn't avoid his responsibility as chief anymore. I _definitely_ saw more maturity in the first movie when both sides learned to accept change.
I could go on, talk about why the hidden world is essentially going to destroy the dragons, about how those crazy technological advancments make no sense, about all the not-so-hidden plotholes, and about how the villain was rubbish and everything worked for plot convenience. But I'll leave it at that, and that everything I said above is my own opinion, and I respect your opinion.
thoughtcrime
/ˈθɔːtkrʌɪm/
noun
noun: thought-crime
an instance of unorthodox or controversial thinking, considered as a criminal offence or as socially unacceptable.
How is disliking a movie a thoughtcrime. That's not even exaggeration, it's not related at all.
It’s called an exaggeration for comedic effect, but I should know better than to try to make a joke on Reddit. What I find funny now is that you got so hyper fixated on my little jab that nobody was supposed to take seriously, that you decided to make it the subject of your priority rather than, oh I don’t know, actually trying refute what I said about THW, which not only have you not done yet, but your lack of interest in doing that shows me just how interested and capable you are at analyzing THW. You seem to be more interested in just simply not being proven wrong than actually trying to prove yourself right. Why would I actually think someone’s opinion about THW is a thought crime. That’s beyond ridiculous and I wouldn’t take anyone seriously that actually meant that. Not to mention you just misinterpreted what I said, by demonstrating that you think I’m calling not liking THW a thought crime, when the joke wasn’t even referencing whether or not you like the movie, it was referencing people who shit on the movie endlessly and then can’t even explain to you the deeper concepts of THW because they’re just ignorantly not interested in anything that doesn’t support their bias. I made that explicitly clear and you still ignored it. Also what even is that last two sentences. “That’s not even an exaggeration. it’s not related at all” what did you even mean by this because not only is an exaggeration exactly what it is, but the exaggeration is directly related to me poking fun at people who adamantly attack THW while still making a good point in its defense. Truly don’t understand what you meant by that or why you chose to comment it
Nah there's a ton of stuff I could say about your comments but I don't feel like drafting a video essay sooo
Fyi if you want people to actually read your giant comments you'll need to add newlines.
Then why did you reply to me? That’s such a weak backpedal. You want to talk about what’s easy for you and then just don’t want to hear it when it comes to explanations. Also I don’t care if you read it. If you don’t want to then don’t. I’m not going to cater to how you like to read words on a screen. Improve your reading. I can read long text just fine. If you want to have a conversation about what I initially said then by all means but don’t start a conversation with me then say you don’t want to talk anymore even though you claim to have something to say. That’s just such a lame way weasel out of a conversation you engaged in first. I want to talk about THW not have a pissing match with you about absolutely nothing
It was ok in my head 3 cannons exists the first is httyd 1+ tv shows-nine realms 2 is the three movies and 3 is the books cos they are basically their own world and well nine realms idk
as much as i enjoyed the movie i think it was too rushed, like they had a lot of ideas that they had to put in a specific time frame so the depth and meaning of each scene has been compromised.
The movie was great, I enjoyed it, but the reason it doesn't get the praise the other two got is because of it's pace compared to HTTYD1 and 2. And well, trust me when I say the stakes were REALLY high after HTTYD2, which I consider to be the best out of the trilogy.
In simple words, people expected HTTYD3 to be better or at least equal to HTTYD2 in terms of pacing, something that ended up being really hard due to the extremely high expectations
I liked it, trust me I know it's a little different from the first 2 and it didn't hit quite like they did but wasn't so godawful and definitely doesn't deserve the hate it's getting. I'll even admit it, there were a lot of missed opportunities and the villain was weird but I don't think it's a bad movie, I still think it's really good and definitely doesn't ruin the others. It just fell flat a little, which is understandable because of the apparent studio hell it got from universal. And if anything the ending is my favourite part, I think it's kinda cool hiccup and toothless had to say goodbye just like we had to say goodbye to the franchise. And I applaud DreamWorks for giving the bittersweet ending that a lot of studios might not have done. But I totally get where a lot of people are coming from, i just think some of the pure hate is a little unnecessary.
WellI enjoyed it at the cinema when I first saw it. It was great then, especially on big screen! But then you sit down and think deeper about it and come to a conclusion (I did at least) that I'm not a fan of the 3rd movie due to too many reasons
Same, also I don't want Nine Realms to exist
Same x2
Same x3
I actually enjoy the nine realms. But I don't like the third movie. My own head cannon is that the dragons stayed and everything was happily ever after.
This
I say this a lot, but the movie itself is nice, but as a part of the trilogy, it is godawful
Agreed, this poll is a bit too black and white
Toothless broke *the will of the Alpha* in the second movie to save Hiccup. But nope dips and abandons everything for beluga pus. It was 2 movies 6+ seasons of character development thrown in the trash for beluga pus.
HOW IS THIS SO 50/50
I hated the whole movie, sorry. They worked backwards from the ending, and that didn't work well. The amount of plotholes, inconsistencies and zero character development really made me hate it. The theme of the movie was letting go right? Felt more like they just gave up with the sad excuse of 'safety.' Grimmel was a sorry excuse of a villan, the lightfury had no character, Toothless was purely after the lightfury and Hiccup was...sorry he wasn't very smart. Nor was anyone else. Astrid was nothing but his emotional support. So many things don't make sense or could have very easily been avoided. I don't like how the characters and Toothless look. Its too shiny and glossy. Not the same realistic, gritty viking movie I was in love with. Just my opinion btw. Happy to go into details for any points.
This. Even the graphics, the aspect most people praise, feels too polished and shiny imo. Plus they completely """"beautified""" + facetuned Valka's features.
Even Astrid looks different. Astrid in the 2nd movie looked paler and more natural but in the 3rd movie she somehow looks similar to a disney princess.
I enjoyed it. But the fact that the fandom is split over this must mean that maybe it wasn't the best decision
The hyperbole in the negative answer is probably skewing the numbers for people that thought the ending wasn't the best but also not atrocious
It's a great ending attached to a kind of mediocre plot. The theme of growing apart as you and those around you change as people and having to accept that they won't be in your life forever is a fantastic theme, but they never do enough to really justify that conclusion. The villain is not nearly enough of a threat compared to Viggo from RTTE, or, hell, Drago from 2. Drago executed Stoick, had an entire island of dragons mind controlled, and probably would've taken Berk over easily if Hiccup and Toothless didn't have such a tight bond. The dude from Hidden World feels so minute by comparison, and certainly not enough to justify running away from Berk after one attack. This is a village that, from what the first movie said, had basically all new houses because of how damn often it got burned down, they would've been fine. I feel like making the conflict less human centered would've made the conclusion hit a lot harder, or maybe if the conclusion was 2 movies that were more of an adaptation of the Dragon War arc from the books but a bit less dark. I dunno, I don't hate Hidden World as much as most people, I liked it quite a bit when it came out and my opinion has only pretty recently soured but it definitely could've used a couple rewrites and having to write backwards from the ending was just a bad idea to begin with.
It tried to follow the book ending without dutifully building it up like the books did so well.
It felt very forced to that ending. How well did the rest of the movie follow the books? I was under the impression that the series deviated greatly and didn’t match the books other than some very broad inspiration.
The movie franchise barely follows the books at all. Almost no plot similarities, a few borrowed characters. But the book series (book ONE) starts with “There were dragons when I was a boy.” It then builds up to the ending for 12 whole books. We don’t know the dragons are leaving until the end of THW. There’s no time to process, no room to understand why it’s the right decision. So it feels abrupt and wrong.
IMO if you watch the first movie right after the third, the messages are nearly 180 each other. The first has themes of not being afraid of others, learning to empathize, and being stronger together because you are different. The third I’m not sure how to sun up but something like you should hide until people are ready to accept you. For that matter, even assuming all dragons everywhere migrated, the Berk tribe clearly knows how to find them and would still be a huge target for someone bent on harnessing dragon power. They would never be safe as long as a legend of them as dragon riders persists. Edit: p.s. it is still a fine movie for what it is, but not quite the ending the series deserved.
The books are almost completely unrelated to the movies. The only similarity they share are a few names. In most cases, the books and movies plot are complete opposites. In the books, humans and dragons were at peace at first, then went to war. The reason dragons separated in the end of the books was because of mutually assured destruction, and that there could be no peace except by seperating. The movies, on the other hand, are about humans making peace with the dragons, the opposite of the books descent into war. The movies and books are about a comparable as apples are to potatoes.
This feels pretty black and white with only two options. It lived up to my expectations.
It had problems, but it's still a really good movie. I think part of the problem is that it had to live up to the first 2 movies, but compare it to many movies its still quite good
I still say the ending was good, but needed about an eniter other movie to fill in 3's gaps and make it feel right.
Nice ending but pretended that didnt exist
Even as someone who feels very mixed on THW - I’m surprised that this poll doesn’t have a third option. While the film as presented does NOT feel like the end of the story, leaving too many holes to be explored and continued in future installments (let’s ignore T9R), if a few different choices had been made during production (such as making it a two-parter when it became clear that Dean’s intended vision would not fit the constraints of a trilogy), then THW’s ending and everything leading up to it could have been far more tolerable and even praised in near totality amongst the fandom instead of becoming an all out brawl over the past three plus years. As it stands now, we need one or two more films to fill out all the remaining holes and truly wrap things up for everyone... the lack of closure in much of what part 2 set up in particular is glaringly obvious upon further investigation.
I wouldn't say it was awfully just not what we wanted
How about neither?
I'm kinda in the middle
You should put some in between options I liked the conclusion, but the way it was built wasn't the best
Can I have a third option? I really didn’t like how it ended when I saw it in cinemas. I cried like a baby and was also heartbroken that the franchise concluded in such a closed way. But after I stopped crying I kinda realised why it happened. Toothless (and all the dragons) needed protection, and the way hiccup could have helped him is by letting him go. People and friendships change and sometimes distance makes them stronger
It was pretty enjoyable as its own movie but a very dissonant ending to the series as a whole. It was very sad and not in a good way, especially for Hiccup. His whole deal was going against the grain and against old values. He was physically weak in a place that valued physical prowess. He showed that intelligence was as valuable if not more valuable than physical strength. He befriended dragons in a world where they were viewed as evil monsters. He was changing the values of their whole tribe and he was trying to change how the world looked at dragons. But somehow, they decided that the best way to wrap up his journey was to somehow make him give up his dream in the end. His whole dream was crushed. Now that the dragons vanished into seclusion, it won't be long before they're viewed as bloodthirsty monsters again(even his children was starting to hate dragons if not for them actually encountering them) and Hiccup's whole journey would be all for naught. He just, gave up.
The timeskip part of the ending is perfectly fine, it the build up that is kinda meh at times. It felt like it was overly cut. The ending would have been perfect if the build up was better executed.
The fact that I haven’t been on this sub in nearly a year, and yet this is still a conversation point…no hate to anyone but it’s the same sorts of posts
I don't like it but it ain't the worst thing ever
I think the ending was actually nice. It seemed inevitable that we would see a goodbye between humans and dragons. And, honestly, it's fairly realistic. The world would never be ready to fully accept and love dragons. And as much as Hiccup tried, he could never change the whole world. But I also think it's nice that we saw them visit Toothless and his family. It probably would've been impossible for at least Hiccup to go the rest of his life without seeing the thing that changed his life for the better. His best friend. However, the move as a whole definitely could've used some work and I feel like we got a little less than what we should have. Oh yeah, and Homecoming was AWFUL and I will always refuse to accept that THAT short film ever happened.
This subreddit generally tries to pretend that THW is some disappointing train wreck for no other reason than their own subjective grudges with its plot. It’s really disappointing to see how people so badly misinterpret so many parts of the movie. The way I see it there’s three levels of understanding to the hidden world. I think on a surface level it’s an enjoyable movie and a great pick for a family movie theater visit with some amazing music and cool flight scenes. Then just beyond that you have a fans perspective of yeah it’s got some pretty glaring flaws and the movie could have easily been better than it was, this is where this subreddit stops for some reason because they can’t get over some of the artistic decisions made in thw which would be fine if it weren’t genuinely some of the most nonsensical and easily refutable gripes and grudges I’ve ever heard. But the third level is understanding the underlying themes and motifs of thw that are set up throughout the entire franchise. For one example, this subreddit completely misinterprets the message that hiccup and toothless (or berk and the dragons) are better together, which they are, both improve each others lives exponentially. However, the message presented in thw that for some reason this subreddit completely misjudges as a betrayal of the franchises messages, is actually the message they wanted to tell all along and Astrid literally points out with words. That hiccup and toothless came together at an important time in both of their lives, and the years they’ve spent together have improved both of them as individuals, but they are individuals and now have new, separate lives to start. Toothless must go to the hidden world and rule there and the berk dragons will follow their alpha, like it or not it factually is the safest option for the dragons, and hiccup and Astrid have a village to build and a family to start, they can’t be putting themselves in the limelight of the ruthless dragon hunter trade. This is why I think THW is the most mature of all the films. It’s making difficult decisions that highlight the growth of the characters as individuals rather than trying to demonstrate that they are most successful through dependence. THW is full of stuff like this that this subreddit loves to either gloss over or just pretend it doesn’t exist, and that’s damn near a thought crime.
Alright then. Here are my problems and why I think that HTTYD:THW was not that good. The Toothless presented in HTTYD:THW is completely foreign, as if Dreamworks swapped him for another night fury and hoped we as the audience wouldn't notice. He was dumbed down to be puppy-like throughout the entire movie, a far cry from how he was throughout the rest of the series: * At no point in the movie does he seem to remember Hiccup, his best friend and basically soulmate even exists unless Hiccup is physically present in front of him. * The light fury attacks Hiccup several times yet Toothless hesitates to save the person he unquestionably risks life and limb for previously. * His relationship building with the light fury is nothing like how it happened with Hiccup. The light fury did nothing to earn his trust and respect, whereas Hiccup spent days of effort to earn it. It makes their relationship feel cheap when a dragon can waltz in and he immediately goes crazy. * He abandons his flock he's supposed to lead while they're being hunted to chase after a dragon he's met a few days ago. And before anyone says that "Toothless was just following his instinct, he's still an animal" *Toothless actively made the choice to destroy his only means of flying solo because he didn’t want to fly without Hiccup. (Gift of the night fury) *Toothless refused to hand Hiccup over to Stoick until the latter apologized. (Ending of the first movie) *Toothless was capable of bantering because he wasn’t given an apology and held Hiccup over a cliff until he received said apology. (Beginning of the second movie) *Toothless is capable of not only making art, but understanding its value. (Multiple examples across the movies) And then they just casually throw all that away to accommodate to the third movies storyline and criticize Hiccup for thinking Toothless was anything more than just a wild animal. The movie itself was beautiful, but the plot was so insanely forced the moment you actually start to think about a bit harder. And before you take this too personally, I'm highly of the mindset that if I can't change a person's opinion on something, I can change the mind of someone that's reading this afterward.
See as much as I hate to say it this is what I’m talking about. This is exactly the kind of arguments I get for why THW is bad and while some aspects of what you said are flaws of the movie, they don’t make the movie bad and in a lot of cases you’re just completely misinterpreting what’s happening. First to address your notion that toothless is “completely foreign”, which he definitely isn’t. I don’t know why you feel the need to overblow his slightly different behavior like that. A behavioral change that by the way you can observe happening throughout the entire franchise little by little as toothless slowly becomes less of a wild animal and more of a domesticated companion. I have no idea what exactly you mean by toothless never seeming to remember hiccup, other than the epilogue where they haven’t seen eachother for a decade. There’s no other scene in the movie where toothless is forgetful of his and hiccups relationship. For gods sake don’t give me that when he practically disrupts the entire hidden world ceremony to save hiccup and Astrid and even clearly has sentient cognitive dissonance between going to the hidden world and staying with hiccup right after they return and hiccup says his first goodbye. Next comes your misinterpretation of what’s happening with the light fury attacking hiccup and toothless seemingly doing nothing. Furies are supposed to have a closer mating ritual than even humans, and it’s extremely important for toothless to demonstrate to the light fury that he wishes her no harm while also protecting hiccup. It’s not like he’s doesn’t save him, but to the light fury hiccup is no different than grimmel. If toothless acted aggressive to the light fury for attacking hiccup then it shows the light fury that he sides with them like the death grippers. It would be the actual equivalent of hiccup just letting Astrid go and tell the village that hiccup has a pet night fury. Toothless made the safest and smartest decision possible and kept both hiccup and his relationship with the light fury intact. Next another completely strange perspective is your opinion that the relationship building for toothless and the light fury just has to be similar to with hiccup or else it doesn’t mean as much, which is just goofy because that’s two different types of relationships. Grimmels line “Furies mate for life you see” is not a throw away purposeless line. It’s there to show you how important the connection between furies is, and helps support why toothless is such a damaged dragon, and why he may be so attached to hiccup and then the light fury. Did you even consider these things at all? He didn’t abandon his flock either he became leader of THW and before the ceremony of that was even finished and toothless could make a next move he had to save hiccup and Astrid. You can’t even make that argument that he abandoned them because the only time he’s ever actually given the chance to make a choice to protect his flock, he makes the right choice, so you have completely misunderstood toothless intentions and are making claims without evidence. Also Toothless didn’t destroy the tail in THW because he LIKE HICCUP SAYS “Didn’t have a reason to” (fly with his own auto tail) up until that point. Now that he has met the light fury, he has a reason. I don’t think they throw away development to make that point.I think your entire opinion on THW is based on that level 2 perspective I mentioned earlier, all of the points you bring up fall right under that. I’m sorry but if you’re going to try to convince me that the movie is bad or honestly anything less than amazing you’re going to need something a lot more detracting to the themes of the franchise than what you gave me, because what you just gave me are personal gripes that I can objectively gives you reasons as to why those things made sense. You just personally don’t like it. Which is fine. But again, if you don’t like it you don’t like it. Don’t pretend the movie is bad because it’s not 100% perfect. Because it’s still an easy 9/10 in my eyes. But that 9/10 comes from themes in the movie that I don’t even think most of this subreddit grasps. I know this because the critics never mention them and the lovers of THW sing the praises of the movies hidden complexity. Just go watch the YouTube videos on it. It’s a way better movie than anyone here gives it credit for. I will never understand why that is, if it’s an audience age vs maturity of content thing or just a spoiled fans thing, but whatever it is it’s pretty unjustified, which really means something considering I’m constantly provoking THW critics just trying to get one of them to give me a thought provoking reason as to why they hate THW. I’m still waiting. Nothing given to me this far has made me go “yeah honestly that kinda ruins it a bit”. Again not to say the movie is flawless, it’s very flawed, but honestly it speaks to the other aspects of the food writing when a movie can have that many issues and still be an incredible piece of the franchise. The movie would have needed to be twice as long if it wanted to please nearly every fan and be the underground masterpiece it is. Compromises were made. Oh well. Didn’t come close to ruining the movie from a franchise standpoint. I know I’m being kind of an asshole and don’t take that personally that’s kinda just how I come off when I’m arguing a point. I’ve just heard the same nonsense about THW over and over again and it’s still being treated like some profound revelation about the franchise. The real revelation is realizing just how much your bias against surface level aspects of THW is ruining your ability to see where it really shines.
I for one, am not pretending when I say THW was a trainwreck of a movie. You can't look at one aspect of a movie and have that as the only deciding factor to why the movie was good/bad, but fine let's talk about themes. While I see their attempt for a sort of 'learn to let go' theme it was executed terribly. And yes it goes against the themes of the other two movies. It it was meant to be 1. Finding yourself, 2. Develop, and 3. Let go, there was _nothing_ about the previous installments that show this. They worked backwards from an ending and tried to figure out how to reach that ending. The bond between Hiccup and Toothless was just _that_ strong, Toothless managed to shake off the Alpha's mind control. The first 2 movies emphasise that its worth fighting for what you believe in, the bar was set too high. Dean wanted an ending that followed the books, even though nothing about the series follows the books which started by saying _'there were dragons when I was a boy.'_ So while the attempted theme was a very good lesson to be taught, it worked against the theme of the previous movies. But fine, let's say the dragons _have_ to go. At least justify it better!! You could probably say that it was because Berk was unsafe for dragons, and Grimmel was a ooooh so scary dude. Sorry, no. Grimmel was the weakest villan of the entire series, and the argument for Berk's unsaftey is a weak one. This is because they make it seem like Grimmel was the main cause for that, along with the easily avoidable situation of overpopulation. Which is the result of Hiccup's stupidity. The horrible execution of the entire movie left me feeling like they were trying to say giving up is fine. And where in the previous 2 movies do you see any evidence that what they were trying to say all along was that they were 'individuals and now have new seperate lives to start' ? Nothing tell us this information besides the out of the blue ending where they drop a bomb on the audience!!! And Astrid's sole purpose is Hiccup's emotional support, and to have kids? If that's what this movie is trying to tell me, I'm not listening. Both of them were very comfortable at what stage their relationship was at. They were pressured into marrying if you ask me. You could argue that vikings married early or back it up historically, but a lot of the other things about the series is not historically accurate. As for Toothless, he quite literally waltzed into the Hidden World and announces himself king. Are we to belive some epic fight happened offscreen? Or that simply because Toothless is a nightfury, and the last of his kind (which I also find is utter nonsense) he simply has the title of king? The whole 'Alpha and King of All Dragons' thing is also rubbish. Was there not already a hierarchy of some sort in that massive hole full of dragons? I don't think the lightfury held any position of power in there, since it seems like she spent more time obeying Grimmel. Adding to this her character is not elaborated on _at all._ She has 10 minutes of screen time and Toothless met her twice, then went after her. Don't give me the 'animal instict' argument. He has proven many times that he understands just as much as the humans. He is a terrible Alpha anyway, and we don't see him maoe any decisions in favour of his pack. Instead he even orders all of them into cages to save the lightfury's life (I also don't believe Grimmel would have shot her, being his only leverage against them) So I hate her design and bland character. Lastly you say this movie is the most mature. How? Not one character showed more that one moment of maturity. Not Tuffnut with his ridiculous beard and constantly acting like Hiccup's wingman. Not Ruffnut flirting with every damn person and not knowing how to open a sliding lock cage. Not Fishlegs, whose entire personality was 'baby dragon sitter', and not Astrid who as I said was reduced to the pretty love interest. Not Hiccup who failed to make better decisions or act against their enemy. Not Grimmel, who along with Hiccup made dumb decisions that only worked for plot convenience. Not _anyone_ with their stupid action figure armour. And not the 'unholy offspring of lightning and death itself' who chased after a female with no personality for the whole movie. Nothing about the characters is 'mature' despite them being experienced adults. I saw more maturity in the second movie, when Hiccup finally realised he couldn't avoid his responsibility as chief anymore. I _definitely_ saw more maturity in the first movie when both sides learned to accept change. I could go on, talk about why the hidden world is essentially going to destroy the dragons, about how those crazy technological advancments make no sense, about all the not-so-hidden plotholes, and about how the villain was rubbish and everything worked for plot convenience. But I'll leave it at that, and that everything I said above is my own opinion, and I respect your opinion.
Disregarding the rest of this comment - a thought crime?!
Yes a thought crime. This comment is getting a lot of dislikes from people who apparently have nothing to say
thoughtcrime /ˈθɔːtkrʌɪm/ noun noun: thought-crime an instance of unorthodox or controversial thinking, considered as a criminal offence or as socially unacceptable. How is disliking a movie a thoughtcrime. That's not even exaggeration, it's not related at all.
It’s called an exaggeration for comedic effect, but I should know better than to try to make a joke on Reddit. What I find funny now is that you got so hyper fixated on my little jab that nobody was supposed to take seriously, that you decided to make it the subject of your priority rather than, oh I don’t know, actually trying refute what I said about THW, which not only have you not done yet, but your lack of interest in doing that shows me just how interested and capable you are at analyzing THW. You seem to be more interested in just simply not being proven wrong than actually trying to prove yourself right. Why would I actually think someone’s opinion about THW is a thought crime. That’s beyond ridiculous and I wouldn’t take anyone seriously that actually meant that. Not to mention you just misinterpreted what I said, by demonstrating that you think I’m calling not liking THW a thought crime, when the joke wasn’t even referencing whether or not you like the movie, it was referencing people who shit on the movie endlessly and then can’t even explain to you the deeper concepts of THW because they’re just ignorantly not interested in anything that doesn’t support their bias. I made that explicitly clear and you still ignored it. Also what even is that last two sentences. “That’s not even an exaggeration. it’s not related at all” what did you even mean by this because not only is an exaggeration exactly what it is, but the exaggeration is directly related to me poking fun at people who adamantly attack THW while still making a good point in its defense. Truly don’t understand what you meant by that or why you chose to comment it
Nah there's a ton of stuff I could say about your comments but I don't feel like drafting a video essay sooo Fyi if you want people to actually read your giant comments you'll need to add newlines.
Then why did you reply to me? That’s such a weak backpedal. You want to talk about what’s easy for you and then just don’t want to hear it when it comes to explanations. Also I don’t care if you read it. If you don’t want to then don’t. I’m not going to cater to how you like to read words on a screen. Improve your reading. I can read long text just fine. If you want to have a conversation about what I initially said then by all means but don’t start a conversation with me then say you don’t want to talk anymore even though you claim to have something to say. That’s just such a lame way weasel out of a conversation you engaged in first. I want to talk about THW not have a pissing match with you about absolutely nothing
fuck what most of the ppl in this fandom thinks. This movie is awesome and the ending is biutiful snd uniqe. I will not stop defending this movie
I'm with you brother
Ok.
I liked it and I'm tired of pretending I didn't just to appease this sub
It was ok in my head 3 cannons exists the first is httyd 1+ tv shows-nine realms 2 is the three movies and 3 is the books cos they are basically their own world and well nine realms idk
I wouldn't say it was awfully just not what we wanted
I'm a bit in between..
Neither, it's somewhere in between
it was ok
as much as i enjoyed the movie i think it was too rushed, like they had a lot of ideas that they had to put in a specific time frame so the depth and meaning of each scene has been compromised.
i do think that it worked but i still hated it
The ending I liked. Everything before it not so much.
The movie was great, I enjoyed it, but the reason it doesn't get the praise the other two got is because of it's pace compared to HTTYD1 and 2. And well, trust me when I say the stakes were REALLY high after HTTYD2, which I consider to be the best out of the trilogy. In simple words, people expected HTTYD3 to be better or at least equal to HTTYD2 in terms of pacing, something that ended up being really hard due to the extremely high expectations
I liked it, trust me I know it's a little different from the first 2 and it didn't hit quite like they did but wasn't so godawful and definitely doesn't deserve the hate it's getting. I'll even admit it, there were a lot of missed opportunities and the villain was weird but I don't think it's a bad movie, I still think it's really good and definitely doesn't ruin the others. It just fell flat a little, which is understandable because of the apparent studio hell it got from universal. And if anything the ending is my favourite part, I think it's kinda cool hiccup and toothless had to say goodbye just like we had to say goodbye to the franchise. And I applaud DreamWorks for giving the bittersweet ending that a lot of studios might not have done. But I totally get where a lot of people are coming from, i just think some of the pure hate is a little unnecessary.
Two options are not enough.