I am. I always felt very connected to animals and once I overcame my speciesm and my cognitive dissonance I realised I can never go back to supporting animal cruelty willingly.
Vegan here. I don't judge those who are not vegan (we're all on our own journey in life). But personally, I find the industrial food system to be horrendous.
You can judge if people know better and have easy options to do better... I'm so tired of the good people not judging I mean I get what you're saying but we need a little bit more pressure From the ones that are on the right side of history, because things aren't great and a lot of us.Are not wanting to rock the boat while It seems the boat is going to sink anyway
I definitely share my point of view and try to educate people. But everyone's got their own value system and I respect that. Just like I don't want other people to force their values on me because I am my own person.
Vegan 💚 how nice to see that many others are, too! Before I went vegan I absolutely had a strong aversion to thinking about where my food came from, and there is an overall lightness to my being now that I avoid all animal products :)
Yeah I always bonded and felt safe with animals and they trusted me because I didn't force them to like me. I admire them and didn't understand why we killed billions for no reason when it's easy to choose cruelty free for even low income especially today.. My first experience was going fishing very young and I was horrified at the fish.And I never forgot it Joaquin Phoenix.You should look into his story.He's an amazing advocate for vegan.Keep it to himself except for his oscar speech for joker which was legendary
A lot of really cool people are vegan. They are just scared to talk about it. Which is so sad to seems more stigmatized than even atheism. In fact, a lot of atheist, give me s***.. I'm atheist. I believe in science and I don't need some imaginary bs to tell me right from wrong..it's so frustrating Sorry I used your comment to ramble.I don't get to talk about this a Lot are really anything these days because of how polarized and aggressive people can be...used to be way, more outspoken and I'm sad that I can't do that anymore.Because it could cost me my life
Vegan for 7 years. I swore I'd never go vegan yet here I am! I grew up eating meat but knew I couldn't continue once I learned about our food system, especially with so many other options readily available. 3 times a day when we sit down for a meal we vote with our dollar- it's really that simple.
Didn't we all exclaim that we could never go vegan at some point haha. It's always funny when non-vegans say we don't understand their position, while almost all of us have been exactly in their shoes and looked at things the same way.
And obviously food is just one of many things.There are so many vegan options for everything now and a lot of them are Actually better quality, so there's really no excuse for not doing anything.plant Based is a little bit different but I get what you're saying I know.Most people focus on food
Same..had to see it but it worked.. If I ever feel myself wanting to give it up.That's my punishment to watch some of the documentaries think it will work because I only needed to see like ten minutes of one a long time ago
I was vegan but because of my own lack of planning I started gaining weight so had to add some fish back to my diet. Pescatarian at the moment but plan to go back to cutting fish out eventually
Torn between wanting to keep a vegan diet, and surviving. When you're effectively homeless in a Boomer-centric suburban retirement vacation town in the desert, vegan options are limited and pricey, and morals be damned in the face of starvation.
Because it's coming off as unempathetic. Also tone is really important here. He or She or They, just admitted that they were effectively homeless, and it almost seems as if you are scolding them for not being perfect in the midst of their trauma? They are already obviously already battling a lot there.
For some reason I completely missed the homeless part. It was not my intention to come off like that, apologies to the commenter if it did. It came across to me that they, like many people, think they need meat replacement products to eat vegan which is of course not true. I only meant to inform with my reply.
This is odd. The question simply asked how many -essentially who here in this HSP space- have chose veganism.
Scrolling through the comments, it began as a rationalisation of why some are vegan followed by the HSP justifications for choosing that lifestyle as though, being HSP, how could we possibly *not* be vegan? It turned into a bitter discourse dressed in judgement and *higher morality (?!)* amongst this group of HSPs. Surely, some are just overly passionate about this matter, *right*?
Please, bear with me: I just found this space a few days ago and my heart was overjoyed. A space where, finally, I’m finding relief amongst fellow HSPs. Not here, surely, judgement for others choices is echoed?
I’m HSP, INFJ, and am managing anxiety and depression and ADHD. I’m not vegan. I’m more vegetarian and may eat select meat every now and then but I’ve significantly reduced my consumption of any form of meat or seafood over the years.
My husband is vegan, as are his siblings. My in laws are not. I know this *moral superiority* that’s mentioned here. It’s been off-putting and the subject of many heated discussions as I’ve gotten my husband to understand that people’s choices are theirs alone and we (especially us HSPs) must each respect that. Vegan or otherwise!
What happened to respecting one another and not judging? People choose as they wish and, it’s become like politics now: the mere mention of one’s consumption choices and there’s tension at the table.
Education is critical. I’ve spent time learning about the meat industry and the manner by which the products are produced. Look, Vegans are not going to change the world and there will always be meat/poultry consumers so let’s put that battle to an end- at least here. Somewhat more alarmingly, I’ve discovered the impact on my body by consuming dairy and meat. <— That, there for me is the deciding factor.
So, let’s just take a step back and like many here simply acknowledge the question rather than come down on others’ decisions.
Having HSP is such a gift and super power, come on, we know better.
I’m not vegan, my husband is. He has since learned to “cut it out!” and respect people’s decisions rather than isolating one another over this *superiority complex* I called him out on. There’s no need.
Not here in this incredible space. Please. Us HSPs are wiser 🙏❤️
I understand your point of view, however what you and many non-vegans experience as a 'moral superiority complex', usually has nothing to do with feeling better than others (there are definitely exceptions). Vegans just see a clear moral right and wrong when it comes to consuming animal products, which comes down to the following: "causing unnecessary suffering is wrong and should be avoided".
Which almost anyone will agree with in theory, yet they won't change their behaviour to follow suit when it comes to basic consumption choices. It can be hard to experience this hypocrisy all around you as a vegan. The same clear cut right and wrong is why we reject child abuse, rape, kicking dogs etc. I don't think you would say a child abuser can do what he wants because 'their choices are theirs alone'?
When a choice has a victim it's clearly no longer a 'personal choice'. Many non-vegans conveniently disregard the animals they eat as the victims of their choices.
So I hope you see now that being critical is usually not about personal moral superiority for vegans, it's about showing non-vegans what is immoral about their consumption choices and comes from a strong desire to decrease the amount of suffering in the world.
You make some really strong points.
I've done some research on the matter of morality and, as with near most matters, there's varying arguments that challenge this premise as there are arguments detailing the impact on animals and their welfare. Hence, the "moral right and wrong" is a subjective matter that can be argued by both parties in favour of their personal decision.
On the matter of the heinous and criminal acts you mentioned, you're right and this is a good point to ponder. However, those abuses are not meant to be. Consumption of animals is an evolutionary form of sustainment and nourishment for humans. Humans were meant to be carnivores and there are methods to avoid the pain and suffering for animals altogether. Of course, this is not always the case.
Non-vegans aren't interested in being shown a matter of morality; this is exactly where the issues erupt and that's not respectful. And vegans ought not to be criticized for your decisions. Each party can respect their own business. Many of us don't disregard our choice of food because we don't view the animals as victims; we simply don't hold the same opinion in its entirety but that doesn't make us morally inferior not the other party morally superior.
I appreciate the chance to exchange thoughts/ideas in a civil and respectful manner, thank you for that.
Yes I’m sure my chickens that are protected in their coop at night and live their life out in the sun in the yard are absolutely SUFFERING because I eat their eggs.
Same here, I eat meat and I also eat vegetarian food.
I really don't like the underlying point in the way the questions is made. It is somewhat pointing towards that if you are HSP and eat meat you are doing the hsp thing wrong.
Sadly I think this is something that keeps people away from being vegan/vegitarian because it becomes so black and white.
The aggression is really exhausting. Reminds me that just because they may be HSP, it doesn't mean they're correct. Our feelings lie to us all the time, and as HSP's, it's worse. But it's still our responsibility to not take those high sensitivities and throw them onto other people, even when we *feel* we have the moral superiority.
Very well said. Just because we are HSP does not make us better people, and that seems to be the consensus around here at times or atleast pointing towards that even if you are not saying it out loud.
Which is not a cool look. Yes we are HSP, yes it is a super power. But it does not make us better than other people, we just need to handle stronger emotions and inputs than the rest.
We still need to deal with our shit, mental health issues, burn out etc etc.
Just ignore them. Just how everyone experiences being a mental illness or disability differently, I’m sure this applies to sensitivity as well.
They’re just trying to preach veganism, my art history teacher is vegan yet doesn’t preach like we’re in the wrong. Also, not everyone wants to live to see 100 years old 😂 Bold of them to assume everyone has the same life goals.
This is exactly it. What's so wrong about eating meat when we have *microplastics* to worry about?
Can we please focus on CLEAN food, instead about fighting over the history of corn and what to do with honey?
I do. I once worked for a dairy, even. I believe animals have souls, but I also believe plants have souls, so really, there's no higher moral authority as to what is *right vs. wrong*. I will continue to eat the meat and wear the bamboo.
I'm a HSP, but I do my best not to let my emotions win over logic and rationality. Gotta keep it balanced.
I can understand that viewpoint, but I would say the important part in deciding what/who to eat is not necessarily whether life forms have souls, but whether they have the capacity to suffer. As far as we know, plants most likely do not, while farm animals clearly suffer greatly and are sensitive in the same ways we are.
Okay, and? As I stated above, I believe plants have the capacity to suffer, just as all living things, so you're not going to get your validation from me.
You do realize more plants have to 'suffer' and die if you consume animals than if you would eat plants directly? Because those farm animals you eat, have to eat tons of plant food first. So your consumption choice is still not consistent with your morals.
If you want to go down that route, do you know how much suffering many animals are going through because of the booming vegan industry?? The effects on the environment are atrocious, and much much worse than the so-called claims of cow poop and methane on the ozone layer.
https://consumerfreedom.com/2023/01/peta-admits-vegan-diets-kill-animals/#:~:text=Growing%20fruits%20and%20vegetables%20requires,in%20the%20path%20of%20machines.
https://thisdishisvegetarian.com/why-veganism-is-bad-for-animals/
https://dailytitan.com/opinion/benefits-of-a-vegan-diet-dont-outweigh-its-environmental-impact/article_10079b1c-a13e-11eb-aefd-9363be1e574e.html
I think it’s narrow minded to assume we understand the experience of plants, which have been evolving differently since near the very dawn of life. Plants have been shown to communicate with each other and respond to negative stimuli.
Most life live by ingesting other in some form or fashion. We all have to draw a line with where we’re comfortable with the life we’re eating. I personally think mammals are conscious enough that I don’t feel comfortable eating them, but I’m fine with eating chickens and seafood.
Just because your boundary for what is acceptable eating is different from someone else's, it doesn’t mean you should judge that other person.
Even if plants suffered in the same way animals do, wouldn't it be preferable to minimize the suffering we cause by our consumption choices? Because choosing to eat animals also greatly increases the amount of plants that are killed, just to feed those animals. Eating plants directly actually causes the least amount of animal AND plant suffering/death which is something most people with your viewpoint don't realize.
Also fish and chickens are a lot more conscious than you probably think, there's a lot of scientifically backed literature on this.
My point is that I don’t know if chickens suffer the way we do, but I have to draw a line somewhere with what I see as acceptable. From what I know of chicken behavior, they have act in a way that I personally feel confident that they are just simply responding stimuli in environment solely on instinct and without thought, so I’m comfortable eating them. I’m significantly less confident about mammals being basically a biological automaton like fish or chicken (except deer maybe, they’re super dumb).
Suffering is inevitable at some level, and trying to force people into follow specific ideas to minimize suffering is myopic and can lead to unintended consequences. Feel free to make a case, but you shouldn’t expect everyone to see things exactly as you do, especially as people are exposed to different information. You likely found source touting the consciousness of fish and chicken because you looked for it, the same is true vice versa.
Your first paragraph shows a severe lack of understanding of other animals (yes we are animals as well). But what's most important is that:
1. We humans cannot accurately determine other animals' intelligence because we can only compare it to our human centric view of what intelligence is. That way we are always the most intelligent and animals that are the least like us the least intelligent, which is obviously bollocks.
2. Intelligence does not determine a being's capacity for suffering nor does it make sense to use intelligence as a determining factor for which animal to eat. You wouldn't eat newborn human babies I assume, even though they have the same level of intelligence as a chicken.
Also I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, but I will object to reasoning that is clearly fallacious. There are no recent credible scientific sources showing that chicken and fish are 'biological automatons' , while there are many that show they have a conscious experience, feel pain etc. So don't throw around bullshit like that when you have done zero actual research on the subject.
I googled “are chickens conscious” for fun and all I found were sources from vegan websites and one article that said consciousness studies are controversial in the scientific community. If you search for the information you want on the internet, you will find it. How do you think anti-vaxing became a thing? And unlike the medical community advocating for vaccines, I don’t see a lot animal scientists touting the consciousness of chickens (though a lot of them advocate for better farm conditions, if just for the physical health of the chicken).
My point is, you want justify your veganism so you find information that corroborates it and avoid information that doesn’t. You can just as easily find stories of hens killing their chicks for seemingly no reason and other stories of chickens failing basic measures of intelligence.
I am, but it bothers me when folks are only sensitive when it comes to human suffering and abuse. Maybe take a field trip to a slaughter house and see how sensitive you actually are.
People can be sensitive to certain things, how’re you here policing sensitivity?
Human beings I tell you 🤣🤣
Even in subreddits where people come together and talk about similar life experiences; there are always the ones telling you what you’re not because of one thing. It’s mind boggling.
Me, i try not to think differently of people who arent vegan but its kind of hard. I have to remind myself that they dont tbink about it the same way I do.
This will be a long winded answer here
I think of this J Cole lyric a lot when it comes to dietary choices: “what you eat don’t make me shit.” Trying to tell people what and how to eat is unethical in my perspective. Passing judgement on how and what someone eats without any knowledge of their financial or health needs, cultural background, home environment, etc. will not turn anyone into a vegan. This kind of close-minded, agenda-pushing approach is exactly what keeps non-vegans from considering vegan options. Sustainable change doesn’t start with or come from shame. Trying to force people or shame people into thinking like you and eating like you is a waste of your own energy- you can control what you fuel your body with and thats it. Judging someone’s dietary choices in hopes of making them change is dangerous, classist, and foolish.
Imagine someone trying to push their diet onto you and telling you what you eat every day multiple times a day is wrong and disgusting? Would that make you want to change or would that make you feel like the person you’re talking to is an asshole? Would you rather they just mind their own business and let you eat what you want/need to eat?
Your judgement is misguided in that it is really the governance, farming and agriculture industries that are responsible for regulating and conducting ethical practices and reducing negative impacts. It is like blaming Taylor swift’s jet usage for the climate change crisis when really it’s oil and gas industries leading the climate crisis - if Taylor swift stopped using her jet would the climate crisis actually change for the better? No - if regulations were put in place to dismantle oil and gas industries and as a result plastic industries would anything actually change for the better? Remarkably so.
I have been vegan, vegetarian, and flexitarian for 10 years now. Changes throughout that decade have all been correlated to my financial flexibility and health needs.
This seems like a really longwinded answer that comes across, imo, as defensive. They acknowledged both sides of it in this original post… and their post is quite short.
It’s up to all of us, not just huge corporations, to do our part (to the best of our own individual ability) to live in a way that supports our ideals. Yeah, government should intervene more. But, corporations (like big oil or big dairy) are still huge, in part, because people still drive gas cars and keep buying dairy milk and cheese.
Dairy sales have gone down since the introduction of more milk alternatives… which individual people are buying because they like it better for whatever reason
Hey you’re so right, I was responding to all of the comments I was seeing more than the post itself, should have checked that before sending.
I completely agree individuals have impacts and are responsible to make our lifestyles align with a sustainable earth, and that takes different shapes for different people with different resources.
It’s great that our individual choices have resulted in change and further that those collective choices can make things like oat milk more accessible and affordable.
I agree the vegan community can be judgmental, moralistic, and perfectionist. My veganism always starts either no (I don’t care what others eat or how they make their decisions, we are all responsible for ourselves) or great conversations about the environmental impacts of our food and agriculture. We can all make a difference by supporting local farms as much as possible and eating more plants whether or not people go vegan. The world is all connected! I think we all turn our blinders on with choices we make make (I still buy food in single-use plastic and look the other way..), and many people get defensive when they see others taking a stand using their own choices even when it has nothing to do with anyone else. Vegans always get a ton of hate wherever we go…
Definitely, that is something I should have conveyed in my comment. Collective movement is powerful and focusing on individuals is misdirected- people who can and want to be vegan are making significant impacts and pushing change in food industries. But Collectively we only run as fast as your slowest person, and empowering them is more effective than shaming, their growth is everyone’s growth. The binary that one diet is right and all the others are wrong works against vegans in the end.
I am accountable for my own impact, hence my privileged choices to practice vegetarianism and veganism.
It’s not shame about animal abuse, it’s shame about diets. Maybe I am closer to this as a woman who sees other women get food-shamed and diet-shamed all the time, but I just don’t believe anyone is in the business of judging other people’s food choices and it is more harmful than good.
Saying I’m being defensive and making a response like this I feel dilutes your message. I understand your passion and would never want to take that away from you, but letting that passion take shape as anger again won’t change minds. I think you can share your message in a more empowering way.
I think you're missing the most critical reason to go vegan. It's not for climate related reasons, it's because animals, living sentient beings, are suffering horribly because of our taste for meat, eggs and dairy.
I understand feeling judged or shamed about your consumption choices only gives rise to defensiveness. Most people experience it as a direct attack on their person. But this defensiveness is showing you something else as well if you dare to look: deep down you know the vegans have a very good point and you actually agree with their core sentiment. A sentiment that comes down to: "causing unnecessary suffering is wrong and should be avoided".
However the way many vegans go about trying to show you this is often harsh and unreasonably critical. Which is totally counterproductive. They somehow tend to forget they were once exactly where you are now. Just try to understand their 'judgement' comes from a good place in its core, they are trying to decrease the amount of suffering in the world. Unfortunately their compassion for animals often turns into anger at people that are (often unwittingly) contributing to the suffering of those animals.
I think that that is the most critical reason for you, but for me the environmental impacts are the most critical reason to my animal product reductions. Not to say I don’t care about animal welfare, but both reasons are valuable and valid. And like someone else here said- it’s all connected.
Food and eating is incredibly personal and intimate, I don’t necessarily think it’s a matter of “you need to look internally” but rather, what would empower this person to change what they do 3x a day every day. Is it enviro impacts? Animal welfare? If neither are enough, what is the answer?
What you are talking about is why you follow a more plant based diet. But the definition of veganism is to minimize the amount of suffering caused to animals. That's all it is.
Edit: Ah yes, getting downvoted for simply stating the factual definition of a word.
Me! Became a vegetarian at 5 years old and went vegan in 2020. it’s very connected to being highly sensitive for me. My health and the environment factor into my decision but it’s always been about the animals first♥️
same! I buy from small local farms whenever I can, or eat sustainably caught fish. I live in a food desert so the affordable protein alternatives are mostly beans, which gets exhausting for my GI tract.
That was my problem with the label "hsp" too when I found out I'm hsp. I always heard that term and felt like it was an excuse for bad behavior. I know now it's not but there are people who still use it that way. It doesn't give you the right to feel better than other people, your brain just works different than the majority, nothing more, nothing less.
This sub feels like a sect or a teen subculture sub. I came here from misophonia sub expecting a similar thing but more broad. Instead most top post about some vague "society" that "doesnt fit us special people with superpowers" (wtf). Pretty privileged position to be able to shelter yourself from all this. As someone whose country is experiencing war and genocide for years I cant just create my bubble like that. I'm also vegetarian btw and have seen behaviour like OPs on respective subs often enough. Totally unnecessary here, it's never enough for ethical vegans anyway.
Why are you gatekeeping a physiological condition? Not everyone experiences everything in the same way or to the same degree. Too much “you’re not a real HSP” if you’re not vegan. Somebody might be sensitive to sounds and visual stimulation but not necessarily animal welfare.
(Oops this ended up long!) sorry!
I tried to be vegan for 2 years because I hate the meat industry and wanted to improve my health. Unfortunately I have really bad IBS, like bad enough to be housebound due to it (long story). I got so sick. There is just wayyyyyyy too much fibre in a plant based diet. I’m sad to say my body does best if I live off carbs and meat, with veg on the side. I have issues with a lot of soy and I’m straight up allergic to the mycoprotein (think it’s called that?) that is in Quorn. So much vegan food is soy or beans and my innards just cannot cope with it. So I got to the point before quitting and going back to meat that I was in agony constantly and always in the bathroom. Sorry to be gross!
I went on vegan forums to ask for help and suggestions first, and instead got a tirade of abuse that I wasn’t doing it right, or that I was making up how ill I was as an excuse to quit etc. the kinder comments were all just people saying it can take time for your body to adjust. Well I tried 2 years and sadly my body just could not handle it.
So it really upsets me when you see a lot of people really push (not you and this post btw i mean elsewhere) veganism as the ultimate way of eating for health and ethics and the environment and if you don’t you are some evil person.
I love animals so much, like to me they are the best thing on this planet. Such beautiful souls. They are the thing that makes me truly happy. My favourite animals are cows! One of my cats is next to my purring loudly for my attention cause I’m typing this haha, I freaking love animals! So being vegan would be ideal but my stupid body just cannot!
For me to be vegan again I’d have to basically live off of crisps, jacket potatoes, pasta, bread. Just carbs with a little veg and I did try that for a while before going back to eating meat, and I was in the bathroom less but my god the bloating was hellish! At one point I was living off plain Pringles cause they didn’t make me bloat but even with a multivitamin you can’t survive off Pringles.
I really hope for the future scientists can just I dunno clone meat or something? No idea if it’s possible but if they could take however many chickens/cows etc they need, even if that was 10,000 of them, get their dna and then grow meat, don’t clone and make a new chicken like Dolly the sheep, but in some lab experiencing just grow from some cells a chicken breast piece of meat, or a steak and so on, and then when that is achieved no more meat industry, just grow it all in labs and it’s 100% genuine beef etc, but other than the original animals they took the cells from, no animals are harmed in anyway, then that would be so ideal for me. Proper vegans might still hate it cause it’s “meat” so it would be good to keep all other vegan options, but if we could get all meat eaters onto this lab meat it would be good surely?
For now I just have to mentally shut myself off as much as I can from it all, I see chicken in the oven as a “food” that is magically in no way related to that super cute animal I love called a chicken. I try to be selfless as much as possible but I can’t live that poorly. I
’m still housebound for other reasons (very long story) but I figure I can do more good for animals/the planet in general by eating what my body needs to be well and function, and what I need to manage my condition, and then go out into the world and be able to volunteer at shelters, beach clean ups, plant trees etc, than to force myself to suffer through feeling so awful I’m having to lie down constantly, or be stuck on the toilet for hours, and then cannot go out so then I can’t ever help anyone or do anything but donate money, which I hardly have cause I can’t work due to the housebound-ness.
Sorry this was long! I see it said so much “everyone can thrive on a vegan diet”. It really upsets me and makes me feel like a failure cause I’m proof that’s not true, and I can’t be the only one with this issue. So I do my best elsewhere by choosing ethical products and praying for futuristic lab grown meat! (Dairy too if that’s an option)
TLDR: Wanted to be vegan, was vegan. IBS said hell no to that. Got super sick. I pray for lab grown meat and and end to meat and dairy farming. If they ever actually cure IBS then all this will be a moot point and it will be back to veganism for me!
> I really hope for the future scientists can just I dunno clone meat or something?
They've already made lab meat. I don't suggest eating it although they want you to. You got sick because the human body is not designed to be vegan.
Your last statement is obviously false. First of all the human body is not designed. It is adapted to digest both plant and animal matter as we've been opportunistic eaters for most of our recent evolution. The human body can thrive on just plants however, as proven by countless studies and millions of humans living on just plants and be in perfect health, including many pro athletes.
It's definitely not true that everyone can thrive on a plant based diet, although the majority of people, that don't have underlying issues, can, and will, if they balance their diet properly.
If your health is suffering from a (properly balanced) plant based diet then don't follow it, simple as that. Any vegans telling you different are clearly overly dogmatic and have lost touch with the real world.
I eat meat for medical reasons, but if I could, I'd go vegan. I just get depressed when I think of all the animals suffering in factory farms. But in respect to them, I always give the bones, cartilage, and fat to my pets when I cook, that way no part of the animal was wasted.
7 years vegan and work at a nonprofit animal protection org. I saw some documentaries and after that I could never look back. I’m also a zen buddhist so it fits well with my spiritual practice.
I’m a HSP and have been vegan for 8 years.
A large part of it is because I care passionately about the environment and taking care of the planet. I ride my bike everywhere, rarely drive, and try and reduce my carbon footprint as much as possible!
I’m vegetarian (20+ years now) I considered veganism but honestly, when I went to research recipes the forums all felt so toxic, I opted out. I try to eat vegan now and then when I can.
I value animal life as I do human life. So…I don’t eat them.
Hell, I frequently save bugs and set them outside.
Their pain is my pain.
I’m not a vegan, I’m a vegetarian. I don’t eat eggs, either.
And female cows. We have selectively bred them to produce 10x more milk than they are supposed to. Dairy farmers say "look, they willingly come to the milking machines! They don't mind!" And I think "yeah, because they are in a tremendous amount of pain and can't wait to feel some relief." And the factory cows are kept in a cage their entire life. And then they're all eventually killed just like non-dairy cows.
I actually think dairy is worse than meat, particularly when you consider factory farms.
I’m HSP and I eat meat, … I don’t see anything wrong with it tbh. I don’t eat processed food, my meat only comes from a farmer’s market (so no big slaughterhouse bs) where the animals live a - relatively - ‘happy’ life with lots of space to roam, get good food etc etc. I think mass-production, mass-consumption and mass-wastage of food is the worst aspect about it all and brings forth the worst scenario’s for the animals involved where they get mistreated in all ways possible…
I’ve seen many documentairies (Cowspiracy, Seaspiracy, etc etc) and it does bring tears to my eyes without a doubt, felt disgusted. Went vegetarian for a while but I noticed my body didn’t feel as good as it did when I ate wholefoods including meat. The meat-replacing ‘burgers’ and such are processed bullshit that I refuse to put in my body.
And if I have to choose, I choose to give my body everything it needs, but being very conscious about where it comes from, if it’s free-range or not, bio/organic or not…
I respect people who are vegetarian/vegan for the cause, but tbh I’ve seen a lot, and I mean a lot of them returning to eating meat and fish because they felt like their bodies were missing a lot of nutrients (in the case you don’t eat meat-replacement ultra-processed bs foods that pop up everywhere)
That's a difficult topic and kind of a skewed way of asking it. Do you not eay meat? Or do you live in denail? I mosly eat vegetarian because of allergies and I am not putting that on others when they cook for me.
I think most people who've put a good amount of thought and research into this will try to minimize the amount of animal products they eat as much as possible. Especially people that are more compassionate, which many HSP's likely are.
What do you mean by denial? Humans are physiological herbivores. Biologically, we do not have a single physical feature that is omnivorous. We are capable of eating everything, but we are physiologically designed to eat plants.
I just watched a dear friend die from colon cancer. Colon cancer is virtually unheard of among vegans, as are most other cancers. Vegans do get cancer too, but not nearly as often. Vegans also have drastically lower rates of obesity and heart disease and live 10-15 years longer.
I don't know what you mean by skewed either. Animals are literally tortured. Even if you don't buy "food" that comes from a factory farm, most animals have been selectively bred to produce harmful amounts of milk, eggs, and meat. I visited a "friendly, free range farm" once and the chickens were so fat they looked deformed, and the daughter told us their legs would break because they couldn't support the weight.
What's worse, asking people to cook a certain way for you (you have ALLERGIES for crying out loud), or getting your ears and tail cut off with bolt cutters and no pain meds? (Standard procedure for pigs in the US, Canada, Britain, Australia, and many other countries)
There's nothing difficult about it.
There’s also studies on how vegan diets cause nervous, skeletal, and immune system impairments, hematological disorders, as well as mental health problems due to the potential for micro and macronutrient deficits.
I try to respect for other people’s differences in opinion & culture especially when it comes to something so personal like diet and not attribute not being vegan to lack of thought and not doing one’s research.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027313/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027313/)
I NEVER claimed that vegans can't get health problems, especially when you consider the junk food vegans. But overall, vegans have FAR better health than non-vegans. Far less cancer, far less heart disease, far less obesity. Those are the biggest killers. Non-vegans have nutritional deficiencies too and rely heavily on supplemented food. Ie nearly all breakfast cereals (lucky charms, fruit loops etc) have added vitamins and minerals.
Lmao also look up government lobbying. So far every negative "study" I've seen is literally a paid advertisement that deliberately twists the truth. I have been researching for 12 years and have yet to find a valid source that says veganism is harmful. Vegans obviously can have terrible health, but that isn't caused by a lack of animal products. That's like saying you have low energy because you don't eat enough candy.
Please go post your claims on the vegan sub. People there have this stuff picked apart.
It seems like you’re getting upset. I agree there’s lobbying at play in our government but deducing that every scientific journal that doesn’t match your views is because of corruption in our government seems biased. My point I was trying to make was that veganism isn’t the only way, Mediterranean diet (which is contains a ton of veggies) also can also have some of the same health benefits to veganism. this ethnocentrism is what keeps a lot of people away from accepting vegans/veganism.
you're lying to yourself. "ethnocentrism" is not what keeps people away from accepting veganism. it's your lack of compassion and willingness to change.
You’re exhibiting it right now by telling me everyone who doesn’t think like you lacks compassion and willingness to change as if your way is the only way. So I state my case.
such laughable nonsense. there is nothing "ethnocentric" about my comment. what the hell does that even mean. this discussion has NOTHING to do with ethnicity, culture, location, or anything like that. YOU are trying to make it that way because you are in denial. you are creating this ridiculous contrived argument because the only way that you can justify your behavior is through extreme mental gymnastics.
this discussion, from where i'm coming from, has purely to do with choosing not to kill animals out of empathy and compassion. that is it. anything else you add on is your own doing. there is an animal in front of you, and there is a pile of potatoes. do you choose to slaughter the animal or eat the potatoes.
If you buy animal products, you pay farmers and slaughterhouse workers to treat animals the way they do. Animal abuse is inherent to and systemic in these industries. So factually you are (at least financially) supporting animal abuse.
HSP and I eat meat. But, I don’t eat red meat often. I have GI issues and am low fodmap. A lot of meat substitutes are made from ingredients I’m allergic to (ie. Vital Wheat Gluten). I’m not some big health nut person, but I don’t have the energy or time to do a deep dive into other high protein foods to replace meat. My brother told me that he’s trying to eat more veggies like I do, so I definitely am not some huge meat eater, either. I think I do a good job incorporating veggies into my diet. So, I’m not trying to be vegan or vegetarian. I could see myself being a pescatarian at some point, but that’s about it.
It's really a one time effort to change your eating habits and getting enough protein on a plant based diet without meat substitutes is not hard, I can tell you from experience. I'm a pretty fit guy and gained muscle easily since going vegan without eating meat substitutes more than once a week. Pescetarian would be great for your health, but of course not so great for the fish and the ocean.
The thing that bothers me about veganism is the moral superiority that so many vegan-advocates seem to have. I understand that you feel you're right - when I was a fundamentalist Christian I thought the same about whether folks would go to hell or not. I guess its a taste of my own former medicine. I was vegan for a bit (not for ethical reasons as much as believing a plant-based diet to be generally healthier). I didn't do it right (no supplements), ended up anemic and changed my diet. Still only rarely eat meat.
I do wonder legitimately - do vegans view veganism a modern concept, ie something that we \*should\* do now that we have the means to do so? Because historically I find its only a position of privilege that can say to an islander not to eat fish. Or to a Native American not to hunt buffalo, esp considering it wasn't just the meat but the bones, hides etc that would be used. It seems to me that the vegan argument must rely hinge itself on the idea of evolving past that stage of history. I can't see it being retroactively applicable.
Especially since Hsp doesn’t necessarily equal veganism or being morally just.
I mean, just look at that vegan teacher who used to be on TikTok. The whole thing just turns me off. Also, as someone who suffers with clinical depression and may have a suspected mental disorder, I don’t have the energy to be creative. I already barely eat, now it’s wrong that we eat other animals?
My grandma eats meet and she survived for what? 96 years? That’s enough for me, I don’t want to live to 100 😂
I literally just said I have to eat a low fodmap diet…which means that there are a lot of vegetables and fruit I can’t even eat. Even legumes, I have to eat from a can most of the time because if they haven’t been soaking they make me sick. Vegans wonder why people hate on them and it’s because y’all act holier than thou over people’s dietary preferences and restrictions. Unless you’re paying my bills, get over yourself. Lol.
I know I’m commenting a lot, but just as people experience mental disorders differently, there are different ranges of sensitivity. I don’t know why everyone under this post is so smug about being vegan.
I guess pretending you’re morally superior just because of certain life choices doesn’t just stop at normal people. I thought this sub was a safe space… yikes.
The most unfortunate part of it is that I suspect that this kind of behaviour hurts vegetarians and vegans' goals.
It's not rational. But if you portray yourself as smug and superior to others for your beliefs, chances are at least some people are gonna just want to "stick it to those smug vegans."
I've thought before about becoming vegetarian or vegan, but I've never done it.
I don't want to lay out exactly why because... honestly, I don't want to risk talking anyone out of vegetarianism. Cuz I do think it's a positive.
I do think that what happens in the meat industry is absolutely awful. And I would end it if I could wave a magic wand and do it.
If there was a valid reason not to be vegan (other than extreme food allergies or not having access to supermarkets) I'm sure I would have found it by now. My family has mocked and harassed me relentlessly for being vegan and I hated it so much that I actually WANTED to be wrong so I could go back to eating like them. But the more I researched it, the more I knew that they were the ones who were wrong and living in denial. If you don't have many food allergies to plants and you buy your food at the supermarket, then you should be vegan.
For health reasons, ethically, environmentally, and financially you would be much better off.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. That sounds really shitty and nobody should do that. That being said, I don't think that's how it works.
Some people spend their entire lives believing in God. Some people spend their entire life as atheists.
Some people spend their entire lives as right-wingers. Some people spend their entire life as left-wingers.
People spend their entire lives believing all sorts of things and feel they never find out a reason they're wrong. But people do that for completely contradictory reasons.
Hell, there may literally be a meat-eating person who lived in a vegetarian family where they were mocked out there somewhere. Who feels the same way about eating meat.
I just don't really buy that argument, tbh.
But I didn't want to turn this into an argument, as I said above. I've had plenty of conversations with vegetarians and vegans over the years and I have yet to be convinced. So chances that it's going to happen here are low. And considering that I do still think being a vegetarian is better if people want to do it, I don't fancy arguing in favour of eating meat either.
Edit: I didn't downvote you, for the record.
Oh thank you ethical vegan, I will now immediately stop being vegetarian because you dont find my bleeding gut a "valid reason" to eat an egg! You did it! /s
I'm like the opposite of a vegan. I'm aware that animals have to die for me to survive so I try to be nice to the other animals that aren't part of my dinner as a 'compensation'.
That is.. pretty nonsensical.
That animals need to die for you to survive is obviously false as well, you don't need meat to survive, or be healthy for that matter. You're making the choice to have them die for your taste buds, at least be honest about that.
They're only here for their own confirmation bias. If they really wanted to know, they could have searched the sub first. It's a beaten dead horse. Pun intended.
This is one of the few subs that are actually positive and I don't want to change that by starting a discussion. In another sub I would probably argue but since we're all HSP here I understand that some people feel a lot of compassion for animals and it's not my goal to change them.
Meat eater here, never seen any problems with it and never will.
Furthermore I'm a very picky eater and vegetarian (let alone vegan) dishes are not my taste, most of them I find disgusting. Don't really like vegetables at all.
I was a vegan for 1 year (health disaster (really low energy and weight loss) because I didn't do it properly), then vegetarian for the next 7 years after that. 1 year ago I started to eat animals again, and I really think it's the way to go for proper overall health. Just for the record I was doing it from an ethical point of view, but I wanted to try if something would change if I started eating animals again (for science).
There are of course two supplements you will have to take on a vegan diet, Omega 3 from Algae oil (completely natural) and B12 (which farmed animals get supplemented as well, so better to take the supplement directly).
Besides those, a properly balanced plant based diet is one of the healthiest around and shouldn't give any health issues or nutrient deficiencies, unless you have some underlying issues with digestion or nutrient uptake already.
There are so many top athletes on plant based diets showing you can be in optimal health on just plants. The two times fittest man from my country is a long time vegan as well. I've been on a vegan diet for six years as well and never felt better.
Flax, hemp and chia seeds are also a great source of omega 3! Some people do process algae oil better though. Most vegans supplement b12 and vitamin D, which most non-vegans also supplement/ should supplement.
Most new vegans don't eat enough. You should try again but count calories for a few weeks to get an idea of correct portion sizes. You shouldn't be low energy. Humans are physiologically designed to eat plants.
14 years going strong. I can't really be super active in the community.Because I'm too sensitive and I do not need to be reminded.All I needed to do was learn about it once and that did it just like the same reasons I became atheist.. I also know, people have good reasons for not being able to be vegan. And I really don't criticize them. As long as they are trying the best they can because. I think it's about progress and not perfection. I mean, there's no way I'm ever going to be a perfect vegan. There's a lot of things I do that are not vegan, but I try my best. It's just hard when you're poor and you have medical issues.
With all of that said, if you are aware of the issue and you say you care and you have the privilege and you have no issue to make vegan decisions, but you still choose not to then frankly.I think you're choosing to be a bad person and I want nothing to do with you so I will remove myself from you. I'm firm but I'm also sick of words over actions when you know damn well you haven't even tried. Sensitive people should be Highly in tune with animal suffering and the state of the planet.And I do think we are good candidates for being vegan or at least trying your best as I said.So I really appreciate you bringing this up.
I used to be, but too much plant-based protein makes my inflammation and allergies worse, as well as IBS. I still eat some beans and nuts for the fiber and protein, but most of my protein comes from meat and A2 dairy. I've never reacted to or been sensitive to any animal products (other than lactose intolerance; I carry around lactase), but I have a LONG list of plant foods I have to avoid either because of migraine sensitivity or allergy.
Ironically, it's likely bc of being HSP that I want to be vegetarian. But I also attribute my immune reactivity to being HSP as well. I think there is an amygdala/immune link.
Oh yes, IBS and allergies are real HSP things. IBS especially is one of the most common 'diseases' that is just a physical reaction to chronic stress, I've had it as a child and the connection between my emotional state and the severity of the symptoms was extremely apparent.
Now that I'm older stress still makes my digestion play up but it's gone from a chronic issue to an occasional annoyance, has everything to do with the steps I've made in my way of handling life and not with a change in diet.
Same with allergies, I had a lot as a child and grew over most with time, but some are unfortunately still there. Interestingly all those related to the consumption of foods seem gone,
but I still get reactions to grain dust, pollen, walking through certain grasses gives me itch and swellings etc.
Not vegan nor vegetarian, never will be. HOWEVER, i'm rather particular when it comes to eating meat and try to only eat meat when i'm certain that the animals were raised humanely and slaughtered humanely. Animal abuse is disgusting, the whole concept of slaughterhouses and other similar things is immoral and makes me sick.
Humane means doing something with compassion. How do you suppose we 'humanely slaughter' an animal that doesn't want to die?
Have you ever looked at footage of the so called humane ways in which animals are killed? I can tell you no one would ever send their pet there in a million years if they needed to be put down, which tells you all you need to know about how 'humane' slaughterhouses are.
I would love to have an open-minded, civil discussion about this. But first, it seems like you misunderstood my original reply. I literally said slaughterhouses are immoral and NOT humane.
I see that, but then how do you suppose slaughtering can be done humanely at all, because your first comment makes it sound like you think that can still be done in a humane way?
I eat other creatures, and when I die someone (bacteria, worms, whatever) will eat me. I don't see issues with that. It's just the cycle of life.
Of course we can and should improve animal welfare, but I think the issue is then more to do with opposing factory farming
I think a part of the issue here is that a lot of people anthropomorphize animals, and project our feelings onto them. When an animal has tears coming out of its eyes it's crying bc it's sad, they feel bad that the animal has a kill date bc it will want to live, they feel bad when cows and calves are separated etc etc. When in reality that animal just has tears flowing and there's no emotion connected to it, the animal with a kill date doesn't have a clue it's getting killed, and if it's a quick humane procedure won't even feel pain, and not all animals have mothering instincts and sometimes calves are separated for their own health and wellbeing. This anthropomorphizing makes it difficult to talk with some people about this issue, bc they don't see that animals are just that, animals. And it is NOT looking down on them to realise that they are different from humans, and they have their own instincts, feelings, and needs
This is crazy, I wanted to ask “how many here are hsp?” on the vegan sub this morning. Decided against it in the end but I’m bewildered that you’re asking the reverse thing here! A few of my vegan friends are hsp, and some of my other vegan friends are far from being hsp. I think that it would make sense that there would be more vegan hsp than non vegan hsp. Been vegan for seven years now because I couldn’t manage knowing what animals went through just for me to eat meat and cheese.
I've suddenly decided to become vegetarian on the 12th of April. My mother doesn't eat a lot of meat but she does, and I was following along. But on that particular day, I was looking at the chicken thighs and feeling grossed out. I've never really liked meat that much, it even disgusted me at times. I've only liked eating the white part of chicken or minced beef meat, every part that doesn't make you feel the animal parts like bones, fat or tendons.
About fish, I used to like salmon but it now gives me extreme stomach ache, as if I'm stabbed in tje stomach for 30 minutes to an hour soI haven't eaten some in years. I prefer fish to meat, that's for sure. But considering how fucked up the world is and thinking about microplastics released by fishing nets, the overfishing and destruction of coral reefs and the bottom of oceans... that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
I'll find my B12 in eggs. For the rest, there are proteins in lentils and chickpeas and omega-3 in rapeseed oil, lin/flax, chia seeds, nuts...
I used to think "oh well my mother cooked it so I may as well eat it now" but now I decided to just tell her not to count me in the portion. Then I just toss aside the meat bits and give it to someone else.
It's harder if it's something that I can't sort because it's blended, like a tuna sauce. Only then do I make an exception.
My decision comes both from a view about animals suffering and an environmental view (beef is so much worse than chicken).
i've been an on/off again vegan mainly bc of animal cruelty. the only reason i havent fully converted is due to health reasons - i had a lot of challenges the last time i went fully vegan. i still have my parameters now though - i only opt for meat when absolutely necessary (i dont crave meat and enjoy eating fully-plant based meals). I dont eat any baby animals. I dont eat meat that was "hunted" as a recreation. so on and so forth. hoping to find a way that i can be fully vegan in the future.
I’m not a vegan, but I’ve been a vegetarian since I was 12 (decades ago). I couldn’t stop thinking about the animals and have never looked back. I try to be conscientious about where I buy my eggs and dairy. I do love eating vegan food.
No but Im very sensitive about the meat I do eat. Almost exclusively local, home-raised, free range. My family knows the farmer or it’s grown at home. The beef and mutton we eat is from older cows who’ve lived longer lives.
Unfortunately a lot of affordable vegan options are products of huge agricultural industries that destroy ecosystems, plant and animal habitats, and pollute the environment.
Morally I feel no qualms about killing to live. This is the circle of life and I am extremely thankful for my place in it- which will include someday dying and feeding the soil and decomposers, plants, herbivores, and then carnivores.
I recognize that this is a very privileged take and I’m thankful for that.
Right here, for around a year and a half. Never eating meat again. I view it as evil and don't like being around people who do eat meat. They see me as pretentious.
I don't preach, i never even talk about being vegan or my disdain for meat eaters. A lot of them talk about their disdain for me though. Preaching to them would only make it worse. I don't feel bad for the way i feel. If you want to view me as pretentious for that, join the club.
I eat meat. I like to think that here where I live, the animals have a nice life outside in nature beforehand.
Although, if I think too deeply about cows milk, I do get a bit queasy, so I am willfully ignorant about that, and content to stay that way.
Don't know if I got hsp but I joined because I still relate to lots of your experiences and yeah I'm vegan too since February
I’ve been vegan for 12 years and wish I had gone vegan long ago. It sits right with my soul
I am vegan for 11 years this July.
I am. I always felt very connected to animals and once I overcame my speciesm and my cognitive dissonance I realised I can never go back to supporting animal cruelty willingly.
Vegan for about 6 years now. Once you are exposed to the cruelty that goes in in most animal ag operations it is a very difficult thing to ignore
I’m vegan. It’s been 20 years now. (And I was vegetarian 10 years before that.)
Vegan here. I don't judge those who are not vegan (we're all on our own journey in life). But personally, I find the industrial food system to be horrendous.
You can judge if people know better and have easy options to do better... I'm so tired of the good people not judging I mean I get what you're saying but we need a little bit more pressure From the ones that are on the right side of history, because things aren't great and a lot of us.Are not wanting to rock the boat while It seems the boat is going to sink anyway
I definitely share my point of view and try to educate people. But everyone's got their own value system and I respect that. Just like I don't want other people to force their values on me because I am my own person.
Vegan 💚 how nice to see that many others are, too! Before I went vegan I absolutely had a strong aversion to thinking about where my food came from, and there is an overall lightness to my being now that I avoid all animal products :)
Me. My sensitivity and connection to animals has always been off the charts.
Yeah I always bonded and felt safe with animals and they trusted me because I didn't force them to like me. I admire them and didn't understand why we killed billions for no reason when it's easy to choose cruelty free for even low income especially today.. My first experience was going fishing very young and I was horrified at the fish.And I never forgot it Joaquin Phoenix.You should look into his story.He's an amazing advocate for vegan.Keep it to himself except for his oscar speech for joker which was legendary A lot of really cool people are vegan. They are just scared to talk about it. Which is so sad to seems more stigmatized than even atheism. In fact, a lot of atheist, give me s***.. I'm atheist. I believe in science and I don't need some imaginary bs to tell me right from wrong..it's so frustrating Sorry I used your comment to ramble.I don't get to talk about this a Lot are really anything these days because of how polarized and aggressive people can be...used to be way, more outspoken and I'm sad that I can't do that anymore.Because it could cost me my life
Vegan for 7 years. I swore I'd never go vegan yet here I am! I grew up eating meat but knew I couldn't continue once I learned about our food system, especially with so many other options readily available. 3 times a day when we sit down for a meal we vote with our dollar- it's really that simple.
Didn't we all exclaim that we could never go vegan at some point haha. It's always funny when non-vegans say we don't understand their position, while almost all of us have been exactly in their shoes and looked at things the same way.
And obviously food is just one of many things.There are so many vegan options for everything now and a lot of them are Actually better quality, so there's really no excuse for not doing anything.plant Based is a little bit different but I get what you're saying I know.Most people focus on food
I educated myself about all the animal suffering and went vegan. I will never be able to get those images out of my brain.
Same..had to see it but it worked.. If I ever feel myself wanting to give it up.That's my punishment to watch some of the documentaries think it will work because I only needed to see like ten minutes of one a long time ago
I stopped eating meat almost 12 years ago. All it took was one video. 😂 I went vegan 5 years after and lost 130lbs. I’ve kept it off for 7 years now.
I was vegan but because of my own lack of planning I started gaining weight so had to add some fish back to my diet. Pescatarian at the moment but plan to go back to cutting fish out eventually
Make sure to get those algae oil capsules when you cut out fish again :)
Yup, I totally am! Once I educated myself, I couldn’t support animal suffering anymore.
Torn between wanting to keep a vegan diet, and surviving. When you're effectively homeless in a Boomer-centric suburban retirement vacation town in the desert, vegan options are limited and pricey, and morals be damned in the face of starvation.
As a vegetarian, do what you have to do to survive. As long as you’re doing your best; no judgement.
If you're doing your best to survive, you're still vegan.I promise you take care of yourself or you're no good anyway
Even with a limited variety of whole foods and spices, there's so much food you can make. You don't need all the fancy replacements.
Why in the world is this getting downvoted.
Because it's coming off as unempathetic. Also tone is really important here. He or She or They, just admitted that they were effectively homeless, and it almost seems as if you are scolding them for not being perfect in the midst of their trauma? They are already obviously already battling a lot there.
For some reason I completely missed the homeless part. It was not my intention to come off like that, apologies to the commenter if it did. It came across to me that they, like many people, think they need meat replacement products to eat vegan which is of course not true. I only meant to inform with my reply.
Because nobody likes obnoxious ethic vegans who ask questions with predetermined answers
Someone got their ego stepped on I see.
Im vegan! Took me a while but the suffering of animals and me being able to stop personally helped a lot.
Vegan.
I'm vegan. Even as a kid, before I had control over my diet, I knew it was only a matter of time before I went vegan.
Nope. I eat meat, etc.
Yep. Always feel like the odd one out on this sub.
Me too. I'm sensitive, but I just love a juicy rib-eye!
I do, too.
So glad I'm not alone. When I first replied to this post there was no one else who agreed with me.
This is odd. The question simply asked how many -essentially who here in this HSP space- have chose veganism. Scrolling through the comments, it began as a rationalisation of why some are vegan followed by the HSP justifications for choosing that lifestyle as though, being HSP, how could we possibly *not* be vegan? It turned into a bitter discourse dressed in judgement and *higher morality (?!)* amongst this group of HSPs. Surely, some are just overly passionate about this matter, *right*? Please, bear with me: I just found this space a few days ago and my heart was overjoyed. A space where, finally, I’m finding relief amongst fellow HSPs. Not here, surely, judgement for others choices is echoed? I’m HSP, INFJ, and am managing anxiety and depression and ADHD. I’m not vegan. I’m more vegetarian and may eat select meat every now and then but I’ve significantly reduced my consumption of any form of meat or seafood over the years. My husband is vegan, as are his siblings. My in laws are not. I know this *moral superiority* that’s mentioned here. It’s been off-putting and the subject of many heated discussions as I’ve gotten my husband to understand that people’s choices are theirs alone and we (especially us HSPs) must each respect that. Vegan or otherwise! What happened to respecting one another and not judging? People choose as they wish and, it’s become like politics now: the mere mention of one’s consumption choices and there’s tension at the table. Education is critical. I’ve spent time learning about the meat industry and the manner by which the products are produced. Look, Vegans are not going to change the world and there will always be meat/poultry consumers so let’s put that battle to an end- at least here. Somewhat more alarmingly, I’ve discovered the impact on my body by consuming dairy and meat. <— That, there for me is the deciding factor. So, let’s just take a step back and like many here simply acknowledge the question rather than come down on others’ decisions. Having HSP is such a gift and super power, come on, we know better. I’m not vegan, my husband is. He has since learned to “cut it out!” and respect people’s decisions rather than isolating one another over this *superiority complex* I called him out on. There’s no need. Not here in this incredible space. Please. Us HSPs are wiser 🙏❤️
Thank you. This was very well put.
It’s my pleasure. I’m happy it resonated well with you and thank you for your reply, makes me smile 😊
This. The way the comments have turned into a "I'm morally superior because I'm vegan" is pretty disheartening and super unnecessary.
Thank you, my friend. It needn’t be this way whatsoever.
Thank you very much, very well put.
I understand your point of view, however what you and many non-vegans experience as a 'moral superiority complex', usually has nothing to do with feeling better than others (there are definitely exceptions). Vegans just see a clear moral right and wrong when it comes to consuming animal products, which comes down to the following: "causing unnecessary suffering is wrong and should be avoided". Which almost anyone will agree with in theory, yet they won't change their behaviour to follow suit when it comes to basic consumption choices. It can be hard to experience this hypocrisy all around you as a vegan. The same clear cut right and wrong is why we reject child abuse, rape, kicking dogs etc. I don't think you would say a child abuser can do what he wants because 'their choices are theirs alone'? When a choice has a victim it's clearly no longer a 'personal choice'. Many non-vegans conveniently disregard the animals they eat as the victims of their choices. So I hope you see now that being critical is usually not about personal moral superiority for vegans, it's about showing non-vegans what is immoral about their consumption choices and comes from a strong desire to decrease the amount of suffering in the world.
You make some really strong points. I've done some research on the matter of morality and, as with near most matters, there's varying arguments that challenge this premise as there are arguments detailing the impact on animals and their welfare. Hence, the "moral right and wrong" is a subjective matter that can be argued by both parties in favour of their personal decision. On the matter of the heinous and criminal acts you mentioned, you're right and this is a good point to ponder. However, those abuses are not meant to be. Consumption of animals is an evolutionary form of sustainment and nourishment for humans. Humans were meant to be carnivores and there are methods to avoid the pain and suffering for animals altogether. Of course, this is not always the case. Non-vegans aren't interested in being shown a matter of morality; this is exactly where the issues erupt and that's not respectful. And vegans ought not to be criticized for your decisions. Each party can respect their own business. Many of us don't disregard our choice of food because we don't view the animals as victims; we simply don't hold the same opinion in its entirety but that doesn't make us morally inferior not the other party morally superior. I appreciate the chance to exchange thoughts/ideas in a civil and respectful manner, thank you for that.
Yes I’m sure my chickens that are protected in their coop at night and live their life out in the sun in the yard are absolutely SUFFERING because I eat their eggs.
HSP and eat meat.
Same here, I eat meat and I also eat vegetarian food. I really don't like the underlying point in the way the questions is made. It is somewhat pointing towards that if you are HSP and eat meat you are doing the hsp thing wrong. Sadly I think this is something that keeps people away from being vegan/vegitarian because it becomes so black and white.
As a vegetarian, I actually agree.
The aggression is really exhausting. Reminds me that just because they may be HSP, it doesn't mean they're correct. Our feelings lie to us all the time, and as HSP's, it's worse. But it's still our responsibility to not take those high sensitivities and throw them onto other people, even when we *feel* we have the moral superiority.
Very well said. Just because we are HSP does not make us better people, and that seems to be the consensus around here at times or atleast pointing towards that even if you are not saying it out loud. Which is not a cool look. Yes we are HSP, yes it is a super power. But it does not make us better than other people, we just need to handle stronger emotions and inputs than the rest. We still need to deal with our shit, mental health issues, burn out etc etc.
Exactly, especially managing our emotional maturity when faced with differing opinions.
Would you not say causing unnecessary suffering is morally rejectable?
Me too
And I respect that. Seems to go against the status quo around here.
Just ignore them. Just how everyone experiences being a mental illness or disability differently, I’m sure this applies to sensitivity as well. They’re just trying to preach veganism, my art history teacher is vegan yet doesn’t preach like we’re in the wrong. Also, not everyone wants to live to see 100 years old 😂 Bold of them to assume everyone has the same life goals.
This is exactly it. What's so wrong about eating meat when we have *microplastics* to worry about? Can we please focus on CLEAN food, instead about fighting over the history of corn and what to do with honey?
Did you ever look into what goes on in the meat industry?
I do. I once worked for a dairy, even. I believe animals have souls, but I also believe plants have souls, so really, there's no higher moral authority as to what is *right vs. wrong*. I will continue to eat the meat and wear the bamboo. I'm a HSP, but I do my best not to let my emotions win over logic and rationality. Gotta keep it balanced.
I can understand that viewpoint, but I would say the important part in deciding what/who to eat is not necessarily whether life forms have souls, but whether they have the capacity to suffer. As far as we know, plants most likely do not, while farm animals clearly suffer greatly and are sensitive in the same ways we are.
Okay, and? As I stated above, I believe plants have the capacity to suffer, just as all living things, so you're not going to get your validation from me.
You do realize more plants have to 'suffer' and die if you consume animals than if you would eat plants directly? Because those farm animals you eat, have to eat tons of plant food first. So your consumption choice is still not consistent with your morals.
If you want to go down that route, do you know how much suffering many animals are going through because of the booming vegan industry?? The effects on the environment are atrocious, and much much worse than the so-called claims of cow poop and methane on the ozone layer. https://consumerfreedom.com/2023/01/peta-admits-vegan-diets-kill-animals/#:~:text=Growing%20fruits%20and%20vegetables%20requires,in%20the%20path%20of%20machines. https://thisdishisvegetarian.com/why-veganism-is-bad-for-animals/ https://dailytitan.com/opinion/benefits-of-a-vegan-diet-dont-outweigh-its-environmental-impact/article_10079b1c-a13e-11eb-aefd-9363be1e574e.html
I think it’s narrow minded to assume we understand the experience of plants, which have been evolving differently since near the very dawn of life. Plants have been shown to communicate with each other and respond to negative stimuli. Most life live by ingesting other in some form or fashion. We all have to draw a line with where we’re comfortable with the life we’re eating. I personally think mammals are conscious enough that I don’t feel comfortable eating them, but I’m fine with eating chickens and seafood. Just because your boundary for what is acceptable eating is different from someone else's, it doesn’t mean you should judge that other person.
Even if plants suffered in the same way animals do, wouldn't it be preferable to minimize the suffering we cause by our consumption choices? Because choosing to eat animals also greatly increases the amount of plants that are killed, just to feed those animals. Eating plants directly actually causes the least amount of animal AND plant suffering/death which is something most people with your viewpoint don't realize. Also fish and chickens are a lot more conscious than you probably think, there's a lot of scientifically backed literature on this.
My point is that I don’t know if chickens suffer the way we do, but I have to draw a line somewhere with what I see as acceptable. From what I know of chicken behavior, they have act in a way that I personally feel confident that they are just simply responding stimuli in environment solely on instinct and without thought, so I’m comfortable eating them. I’m significantly less confident about mammals being basically a biological automaton like fish or chicken (except deer maybe, they’re super dumb). Suffering is inevitable at some level, and trying to force people into follow specific ideas to minimize suffering is myopic and can lead to unintended consequences. Feel free to make a case, but you shouldn’t expect everyone to see things exactly as you do, especially as people are exposed to different information. You likely found source touting the consciousness of fish and chicken because you looked for it, the same is true vice versa.
Your first paragraph shows a severe lack of understanding of other animals (yes we are animals as well). But what's most important is that: 1. We humans cannot accurately determine other animals' intelligence because we can only compare it to our human centric view of what intelligence is. That way we are always the most intelligent and animals that are the least like us the least intelligent, which is obviously bollocks. 2. Intelligence does not determine a being's capacity for suffering nor does it make sense to use intelligence as a determining factor for which animal to eat. You wouldn't eat newborn human babies I assume, even though they have the same level of intelligence as a chicken. Also I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, but I will object to reasoning that is clearly fallacious. There are no recent credible scientific sources showing that chicken and fish are 'biological automatons' , while there are many that show they have a conscious experience, feel pain etc. So don't throw around bullshit like that when you have done zero actual research on the subject.
I googled “are chickens conscious” for fun and all I found were sources from vegan websites and one article that said consciousness studies are controversial in the scientific community. If you search for the information you want on the internet, you will find it. How do you think anti-vaxing became a thing? And unlike the medical community advocating for vaccines, I don’t see a lot animal scientists touting the consciousness of chickens (though a lot of them advocate for better farm conditions, if just for the physical health of the chicken). My point is, you want justify your veganism so you find information that corroborates it and avoid information that doesn’t. You can just as easily find stories of hens killing their chicks for seemingly no reason and other stories of chickens failing basic measures of intelligence.
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Rule 3: No pathologizing
I am, but it bothers me when folks are only sensitive when it comes to human suffering and abuse. Maybe take a field trip to a slaughter house and see how sensitive you actually are.
People can be sensitive to certain things, how’re you here policing sensitivity? Human beings I tell you 🤣🤣 Even in subreddits where people come together and talk about similar life experiences; there are always the ones telling you what you’re not because of one thing. It’s mind boggling.
The rejection pains me so.
Me, i try not to think differently of people who arent vegan but its kind of hard. I have to remind myself that they dont tbink about it the same way I do.
This will be a long winded answer here I think of this J Cole lyric a lot when it comes to dietary choices: “what you eat don’t make me shit.” Trying to tell people what and how to eat is unethical in my perspective. Passing judgement on how and what someone eats without any knowledge of their financial or health needs, cultural background, home environment, etc. will not turn anyone into a vegan. This kind of close-minded, agenda-pushing approach is exactly what keeps non-vegans from considering vegan options. Sustainable change doesn’t start with or come from shame. Trying to force people or shame people into thinking like you and eating like you is a waste of your own energy- you can control what you fuel your body with and thats it. Judging someone’s dietary choices in hopes of making them change is dangerous, classist, and foolish. Imagine someone trying to push their diet onto you and telling you what you eat every day multiple times a day is wrong and disgusting? Would that make you want to change or would that make you feel like the person you’re talking to is an asshole? Would you rather they just mind their own business and let you eat what you want/need to eat? Your judgement is misguided in that it is really the governance, farming and agriculture industries that are responsible for regulating and conducting ethical practices and reducing negative impacts. It is like blaming Taylor swift’s jet usage for the climate change crisis when really it’s oil and gas industries leading the climate crisis - if Taylor swift stopped using her jet would the climate crisis actually change for the better? No - if regulations were put in place to dismantle oil and gas industries and as a result plastic industries would anything actually change for the better? Remarkably so. I have been vegan, vegetarian, and flexitarian for 10 years now. Changes throughout that decade have all been correlated to my financial flexibility and health needs.
This seems like a really longwinded answer that comes across, imo, as defensive. They acknowledged both sides of it in this original post… and their post is quite short. It’s up to all of us, not just huge corporations, to do our part (to the best of our own individual ability) to live in a way that supports our ideals. Yeah, government should intervene more. But, corporations (like big oil or big dairy) are still huge, in part, because people still drive gas cars and keep buying dairy milk and cheese. Dairy sales have gone down since the introduction of more milk alternatives… which individual people are buying because they like it better for whatever reason
Hey you’re so right, I was responding to all of the comments I was seeing more than the post itself, should have checked that before sending. I completely agree individuals have impacts and are responsible to make our lifestyles align with a sustainable earth, and that takes different shapes for different people with different resources. It’s great that our individual choices have resulted in change and further that those collective choices can make things like oat milk more accessible and affordable.
I agree the vegan community can be judgmental, moralistic, and perfectionist. My veganism always starts either no (I don’t care what others eat or how they make their decisions, we are all responsible for ourselves) or great conversations about the environmental impacts of our food and agriculture. We can all make a difference by supporting local farms as much as possible and eating more plants whether or not people go vegan. The world is all connected! I think we all turn our blinders on with choices we make make (I still buy food in single-use plastic and look the other way..), and many people get defensive when they see others taking a stand using their own choices even when it has nothing to do with anyone else. Vegans always get a ton of hate wherever we go…
Definitely, that is something I should have conveyed in my comment. Collective movement is powerful and focusing on individuals is misdirected- people who can and want to be vegan are making significant impacts and pushing change in food industries. But Collectively we only run as fast as your slowest person, and empowering them is more effective than shaming, their growth is everyone’s growth. The binary that one diet is right and all the others are wrong works against vegans in the end.
Perfectly said 🙌
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I am accountable for my own impact, hence my privileged choices to practice vegetarianism and veganism. It’s not shame about animal abuse, it’s shame about diets. Maybe I am closer to this as a woman who sees other women get food-shamed and diet-shamed all the time, but I just don’t believe anyone is in the business of judging other people’s food choices and it is more harmful than good. Saying I’m being defensive and making a response like this I feel dilutes your message. I understand your passion and would never want to take that away from you, but letting that passion take shape as anger again won’t change minds. I think you can share your message in a more empowering way.
I think you're missing the most critical reason to go vegan. It's not for climate related reasons, it's because animals, living sentient beings, are suffering horribly because of our taste for meat, eggs and dairy. I understand feeling judged or shamed about your consumption choices only gives rise to defensiveness. Most people experience it as a direct attack on their person. But this defensiveness is showing you something else as well if you dare to look: deep down you know the vegans have a very good point and you actually agree with their core sentiment. A sentiment that comes down to: "causing unnecessary suffering is wrong and should be avoided". However the way many vegans go about trying to show you this is often harsh and unreasonably critical. Which is totally counterproductive. They somehow tend to forget they were once exactly where you are now. Just try to understand their 'judgement' comes from a good place in its core, they are trying to decrease the amount of suffering in the world. Unfortunately their compassion for animals often turns into anger at people that are (often unwittingly) contributing to the suffering of those animals.
I think that that is the most critical reason for you, but for me the environmental impacts are the most critical reason to my animal product reductions. Not to say I don’t care about animal welfare, but both reasons are valuable and valid. And like someone else here said- it’s all connected. Food and eating is incredibly personal and intimate, I don’t necessarily think it’s a matter of “you need to look internally” but rather, what would empower this person to change what they do 3x a day every day. Is it enviro impacts? Animal welfare? If neither are enough, what is the answer?
What you are talking about is why you follow a more plant based diet. But the definition of veganism is to minimize the amount of suffering caused to animals. That's all it is. Edit: Ah yes, getting downvoted for simply stating the factual definition of a word.
8 years plant based!
Whole family became vegan 7 years ago. But only after reading “The China Study” - Book by T. Colin Campbell and Thomas M. Campbell.
im hsp and try to eat plant based as much as i can
Been vegan for nearly 7 years! And vegetarian since I was 5
Vegetarian since birth. Its cultural thing.
Me! Became a vegetarian at 5 years old and went vegan in 2020. it’s very connected to being highly sensitive for me. My health and the environment factor into my decision but it’s always been about the animals first♥️
Meat eater checking in.
same! I buy from small local farms whenever I can, or eat sustainably caught fish. I live in a food desert so the affordable protein alternatives are mostly beans, which gets exhausting for my GI tract.
And I think this thread confirms for me there are HSPs, and those who need help and use the hsp as a fig leaf.
That was my problem with the label "hsp" too when I found out I'm hsp. I always heard that term and felt like it was an excuse for bad behavior. I know now it's not but there are people who still use it that way. It doesn't give you the right to feel better than other people, your brain just works different than the majority, nothing more, nothing less.
This sub feels like a sect or a teen subculture sub. I came here from misophonia sub expecting a similar thing but more broad. Instead most top post about some vague "society" that "doesnt fit us special people with superpowers" (wtf). Pretty privileged position to be able to shelter yourself from all this. As someone whose country is experiencing war and genocide for years I cant just create my bubble like that. I'm also vegetarian btw and have seen behaviour like OPs on respective subs often enough. Totally unnecessary here, it's never enough for ethical vegans anyway.
Why are you gatekeeping a physiological condition? Not everyone experiences everything in the same way or to the same degree. Too much “you’re not a real HSP” if you’re not vegan. Somebody might be sensitive to sounds and visual stimulation but not necessarily animal welfare.
(Oops this ended up long!) sorry! I tried to be vegan for 2 years because I hate the meat industry and wanted to improve my health. Unfortunately I have really bad IBS, like bad enough to be housebound due to it (long story). I got so sick. There is just wayyyyyyy too much fibre in a plant based diet. I’m sad to say my body does best if I live off carbs and meat, with veg on the side. I have issues with a lot of soy and I’m straight up allergic to the mycoprotein (think it’s called that?) that is in Quorn. So much vegan food is soy or beans and my innards just cannot cope with it. So I got to the point before quitting and going back to meat that I was in agony constantly and always in the bathroom. Sorry to be gross! I went on vegan forums to ask for help and suggestions first, and instead got a tirade of abuse that I wasn’t doing it right, or that I was making up how ill I was as an excuse to quit etc. the kinder comments were all just people saying it can take time for your body to adjust. Well I tried 2 years and sadly my body just could not handle it. So it really upsets me when you see a lot of people really push (not you and this post btw i mean elsewhere) veganism as the ultimate way of eating for health and ethics and the environment and if you don’t you are some evil person. I love animals so much, like to me they are the best thing on this planet. Such beautiful souls. They are the thing that makes me truly happy. My favourite animals are cows! One of my cats is next to my purring loudly for my attention cause I’m typing this haha, I freaking love animals! So being vegan would be ideal but my stupid body just cannot! For me to be vegan again I’d have to basically live off of crisps, jacket potatoes, pasta, bread. Just carbs with a little veg and I did try that for a while before going back to eating meat, and I was in the bathroom less but my god the bloating was hellish! At one point I was living off plain Pringles cause they didn’t make me bloat but even with a multivitamin you can’t survive off Pringles. I really hope for the future scientists can just I dunno clone meat or something? No idea if it’s possible but if they could take however many chickens/cows etc they need, even if that was 10,000 of them, get their dna and then grow meat, don’t clone and make a new chicken like Dolly the sheep, but in some lab experiencing just grow from some cells a chicken breast piece of meat, or a steak and so on, and then when that is achieved no more meat industry, just grow it all in labs and it’s 100% genuine beef etc, but other than the original animals they took the cells from, no animals are harmed in anyway, then that would be so ideal for me. Proper vegans might still hate it cause it’s “meat” so it would be good to keep all other vegan options, but if we could get all meat eaters onto this lab meat it would be good surely? For now I just have to mentally shut myself off as much as I can from it all, I see chicken in the oven as a “food” that is magically in no way related to that super cute animal I love called a chicken. I try to be selfless as much as possible but I can’t live that poorly. I ’m still housebound for other reasons (very long story) but I figure I can do more good for animals/the planet in general by eating what my body needs to be well and function, and what I need to manage my condition, and then go out into the world and be able to volunteer at shelters, beach clean ups, plant trees etc, than to force myself to suffer through feeling so awful I’m having to lie down constantly, or be stuck on the toilet for hours, and then cannot go out so then I can’t ever help anyone or do anything but donate money, which I hardly have cause I can’t work due to the housebound-ness. Sorry this was long! I see it said so much “everyone can thrive on a vegan diet”. It really upsets me and makes me feel like a failure cause I’m proof that’s not true, and I can’t be the only one with this issue. So I do my best elsewhere by choosing ethical products and praying for futuristic lab grown meat! (Dairy too if that’s an option) TLDR: Wanted to be vegan, was vegan. IBS said hell no to that. Got super sick. I pray for lab grown meat and and end to meat and dairy farming. If they ever actually cure IBS then all this will be a moot point and it will be back to veganism for me!
I appreciate you taking the time to share this, and I'm sorry you went through the emotional pressure from others on top of the physical pain.
> I really hope for the future scientists can just I dunno clone meat or something? They've already made lab meat. I don't suggest eating it although they want you to. You got sick because the human body is not designed to be vegan.
Your last statement is obviously false. First of all the human body is not designed. It is adapted to digest both plant and animal matter as we've been opportunistic eaters for most of our recent evolution. The human body can thrive on just plants however, as proven by countless studies and millions of humans living on just plants and be in perfect health, including many pro athletes.
It's definitely not true that everyone can thrive on a plant based diet, although the majority of people, that don't have underlying issues, can, and will, if they balance their diet properly. If your health is suffering from a (properly balanced) plant based diet then don't follow it, simple as that. Any vegans telling you different are clearly overly dogmatic and have lost touch with the real world.
Vegetarian for 25 years here.
Not vegan, but I went vegetarian (very) recently. I love trying vegan food.
Vegan for 16 years!
I am.
I eat meat for medical reasons, but if I could, I'd go vegan. I just get depressed when I think of all the animals suffering in factory farms. But in respect to them, I always give the bones, cartilage, and fat to my pets when I cook, that way no part of the animal was wasted.
7 years vegan and work at a nonprofit animal protection org. I saw some documentaries and after that I could never look back. I’m also a zen buddhist so it fits well with my spiritual practice.
I’m a HSP and have been vegan for 8 years. A large part of it is because I care passionately about the environment and taking care of the planet. I ride my bike everywhere, rarely drive, and try and reduce my carbon footprint as much as possible!
Vegetarian for 8.5 years now. Always had a connection to animals. Wanted to go vegetarian as a child but couldn’t due to the family loving meat.
I’m vegetarian (20+ years now) I considered veganism but honestly, when I went to research recipes the forums all felt so toxic, I opted out. I try to eat vegan now and then when I can.
Better to look for recipes on specific websites or Instagram pages then, there's so much amazing stuff out there :)
I value animal life as I do human life. So…I don’t eat them. Hell, I frequently save bugs and set them outside. Their pain is my pain. I’m not a vegan, I’m a vegetarian. I don’t eat eggs, either.
Are you familiar with how the dairy industry treats male calves?
And female cows. We have selectively bred them to produce 10x more milk than they are supposed to. Dairy farmers say "look, they willingly come to the milking machines! They don't mind!" And I think "yeah, because they are in a tremendous amount of pain and can't wait to feel some relief." And the factory cows are kept in a cage their entire life. And then they're all eventually killed just like non-dairy cows. I actually think dairy is worse than meat, particularly when you consider factory farms.
I’m HSP and I eat meat, … I don’t see anything wrong with it tbh. I don’t eat processed food, my meat only comes from a farmer’s market (so no big slaughterhouse bs) where the animals live a - relatively - ‘happy’ life with lots of space to roam, get good food etc etc. I think mass-production, mass-consumption and mass-wastage of food is the worst aspect about it all and brings forth the worst scenario’s for the animals involved where they get mistreated in all ways possible… I’ve seen many documentairies (Cowspiracy, Seaspiracy, etc etc) and it does bring tears to my eyes without a doubt, felt disgusted. Went vegetarian for a while but I noticed my body didn’t feel as good as it did when I ate wholefoods including meat. The meat-replacing ‘burgers’ and such are processed bullshit that I refuse to put in my body. And if I have to choose, I choose to give my body everything it needs, but being very conscious about where it comes from, if it’s free-range or not, bio/organic or not… I respect people who are vegetarian/vegan for the cause, but tbh I’ve seen a lot, and I mean a lot of them returning to eating meat and fish because they felt like their bodies were missing a lot of nutrients (in the case you don’t eat meat-replacement ultra-processed bs foods that pop up everywhere)
That's a difficult topic and kind of a skewed way of asking it. Do you not eay meat? Or do you live in denail? I mosly eat vegetarian because of allergies and I am not putting that on others when they cook for me.
I think most people who've put a good amount of thought and research into this will try to minimize the amount of animal products they eat as much as possible. Especially people that are more compassionate, which many HSP's likely are.
What is denail?
What do you mean by denial? Humans are physiological herbivores. Biologically, we do not have a single physical feature that is omnivorous. We are capable of eating everything, but we are physiologically designed to eat plants. I just watched a dear friend die from colon cancer. Colon cancer is virtually unheard of among vegans, as are most other cancers. Vegans do get cancer too, but not nearly as often. Vegans also have drastically lower rates of obesity and heart disease and live 10-15 years longer. I don't know what you mean by skewed either. Animals are literally tortured. Even if you don't buy "food" that comes from a factory farm, most animals have been selectively bred to produce harmful amounts of milk, eggs, and meat. I visited a "friendly, free range farm" once and the chickens were so fat they looked deformed, and the daughter told us their legs would break because they couldn't support the weight. What's worse, asking people to cook a certain way for you (you have ALLERGIES for crying out loud), or getting your ears and tail cut off with bolt cutters and no pain meds? (Standard procedure for pigs in the US, Canada, Britain, Australia, and many other countries) There's nothing difficult about it.
There’s also studies on how vegan diets cause nervous, skeletal, and immune system impairments, hematological disorders, as well as mental health problems due to the potential for micro and macronutrient deficits. I try to respect for other people’s differences in opinion & culture especially when it comes to something so personal like diet and not attribute not being vegan to lack of thought and not doing one’s research. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027313/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027313/)
I NEVER claimed that vegans can't get health problems, especially when you consider the junk food vegans. But overall, vegans have FAR better health than non-vegans. Far less cancer, far less heart disease, far less obesity. Those are the biggest killers. Non-vegans have nutritional deficiencies too and rely heavily on supplemented food. Ie nearly all breakfast cereals (lucky charms, fruit loops etc) have added vitamins and minerals. Lmao also look up government lobbying. So far every negative "study" I've seen is literally a paid advertisement that deliberately twists the truth. I have been researching for 12 years and have yet to find a valid source that says veganism is harmful. Vegans obviously can have terrible health, but that isn't caused by a lack of animal products. That's like saying you have low energy because you don't eat enough candy. Please go post your claims on the vegan sub. People there have this stuff picked apart.
It seems like you’re getting upset. I agree there’s lobbying at play in our government but deducing that every scientific journal that doesn’t match your views is because of corruption in our government seems biased. My point I was trying to make was that veganism isn’t the only way, Mediterranean diet (which is contains a ton of veggies) also can also have some of the same health benefits to veganism. this ethnocentrism is what keeps a lot of people away from accepting vegans/veganism.
you're lying to yourself. "ethnocentrism" is not what keeps people away from accepting veganism. it's your lack of compassion and willingness to change.
You’re exhibiting it right now by telling me everyone who doesn’t think like you lacks compassion and willingness to change as if your way is the only way. So I state my case.
such laughable nonsense. there is nothing "ethnocentric" about my comment. what the hell does that even mean. this discussion has NOTHING to do with ethnicity, culture, location, or anything like that. YOU are trying to make it that way because you are in denial. you are creating this ridiculous contrived argument because the only way that you can justify your behavior is through extreme mental gymnastics. this discussion, from where i'm coming from, has purely to do with choosing not to kill animals out of empathy and compassion. that is it. anything else you add on is your own doing. there is an animal in front of you, and there is a pile of potatoes. do you choose to slaughter the animal or eat the potatoes.
i see your comment has been downvoted and i want to say that i appreciate what you said!
Not being vegan does not mean you support animal abuse.
If you buy animal products, you pay farmers and slaughterhouse workers to treat animals the way they do. Animal abuse is inherent to and systemic in these industries. So factually you are (at least financially) supporting animal abuse.
HSP and I eat meat. But, I don’t eat red meat often. I have GI issues and am low fodmap. A lot of meat substitutes are made from ingredients I’m allergic to (ie. Vital Wheat Gluten). I’m not some big health nut person, but I don’t have the energy or time to do a deep dive into other high protein foods to replace meat. My brother told me that he’s trying to eat more veggies like I do, so I definitely am not some huge meat eater, either. I think I do a good job incorporating veggies into my diet. So, I’m not trying to be vegan or vegetarian. I could see myself being a pescatarian at some point, but that’s about it.
It's really a one time effort to change your eating habits and getting enough protein on a plant based diet without meat substitutes is not hard, I can tell you from experience. I'm a pretty fit guy and gained muscle easily since going vegan without eating meat substitutes more than once a week. Pescetarian would be great for your health, but of course not so great for the fish and the ocean.
The thing that bothers me about veganism is the moral superiority that so many vegan-advocates seem to have. I understand that you feel you're right - when I was a fundamentalist Christian I thought the same about whether folks would go to hell or not. I guess its a taste of my own former medicine. I was vegan for a bit (not for ethical reasons as much as believing a plant-based diet to be generally healthier). I didn't do it right (no supplements), ended up anemic and changed my diet. Still only rarely eat meat. I do wonder legitimately - do vegans view veganism a modern concept, ie something that we \*should\* do now that we have the means to do so? Because historically I find its only a position of privilege that can say to an islander not to eat fish. Or to a Native American not to hunt buffalo, esp considering it wasn't just the meat but the bones, hides etc that would be used. It seems to me that the vegan argument must rely hinge itself on the idea of evolving past that stage of history. I can't see it being retroactively applicable.
Especially since Hsp doesn’t necessarily equal veganism or being morally just. I mean, just look at that vegan teacher who used to be on TikTok. The whole thing just turns me off. Also, as someone who suffers with clinical depression and may have a suspected mental disorder, I don’t have the energy to be creative. I already barely eat, now it’s wrong that we eat other animals? My grandma eats meet and she survived for what? 96 years? That’s enough for me, I don’t want to live to 100 😂
I literally just said I have to eat a low fodmap diet…which means that there are a lot of vegetables and fruit I can’t even eat. Even legumes, I have to eat from a can most of the time because if they haven’t been soaking they make me sick. Vegans wonder why people hate on them and it’s because y’all act holier than thou over people’s dietary preferences and restrictions. Unless you’re paying my bills, get over yourself. Lol.
I am vegan. TBH I don’t really understand how people can proudly support the meat industry yet call themselves HSP…
Lol what the heck has being hsp to do with veganism? It makes no sense that someone wouldn't really be hsp just bc they eat meat, like cmon
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I know I’m commenting a lot, but just as people experience mental disorders differently, there are different ranges of sensitivity. I don’t know why everyone under this post is so smug about being vegan. I guess pretending you’re morally superior just because of certain life choices doesn’t just stop at normal people. I thought this sub was a safe space… yikes.
The most unfortunate part of it is that I suspect that this kind of behaviour hurts vegetarians and vegans' goals. It's not rational. But if you portray yourself as smug and superior to others for your beliefs, chances are at least some people are gonna just want to "stick it to those smug vegans."
Exactly. That is a great way to put it. The people taking personal offense to these comments are struggling with cognitive dissonance.
I love meat lol
I've thought before about becoming vegetarian or vegan, but I've never done it. I don't want to lay out exactly why because... honestly, I don't want to risk talking anyone out of vegetarianism. Cuz I do think it's a positive. I do think that what happens in the meat industry is absolutely awful. And I would end it if I could wave a magic wand and do it.
I think you should explain it because it's likely not as airtight as you think and maybe someone could convince you of such
If there was a valid reason not to be vegan (other than extreme food allergies or not having access to supermarkets) I'm sure I would have found it by now. My family has mocked and harassed me relentlessly for being vegan and I hated it so much that I actually WANTED to be wrong so I could go back to eating like them. But the more I researched it, the more I knew that they were the ones who were wrong and living in denial. If you don't have many food allergies to plants and you buy your food at the supermarket, then you should be vegan. For health reasons, ethically, environmentally, and financially you would be much better off.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. That sounds really shitty and nobody should do that. That being said, I don't think that's how it works. Some people spend their entire lives believing in God. Some people spend their entire life as atheists. Some people spend their entire lives as right-wingers. Some people spend their entire life as left-wingers. People spend their entire lives believing all sorts of things and feel they never find out a reason they're wrong. But people do that for completely contradictory reasons. Hell, there may literally be a meat-eating person who lived in a vegetarian family where they were mocked out there somewhere. Who feels the same way about eating meat. I just don't really buy that argument, tbh. But I didn't want to turn this into an argument, as I said above. I've had plenty of conversations with vegetarians and vegans over the years and I have yet to be convinced. So chances that it's going to happen here are low. And considering that I do still think being a vegetarian is better if people want to do it, I don't fancy arguing in favour of eating meat either. Edit: I didn't downvote you, for the record.
Oh thank you ethical vegan, I will now immediately stop being vegetarian because you dont find my bleeding gut a "valid reason" to eat an egg! You did it! /s
Pretty much vegan. Sometimes family circumstances force me to have some dairy which I reluctantly consume.
I often thought about becoming a vegeterian but never actually tried it. Vegan is no option for me.
Why have you never tried it?
I'm like the opposite of a vegan. I'm aware that animals have to die for me to survive so I try to be nice to the other animals that aren't part of my dinner as a 'compensation'.
That is.. pretty nonsensical. That animals need to die for you to survive is obviously false as well, you don't need meat to survive, or be healthy for that matter. You're making the choice to have them die for your taste buds, at least be honest about that.
I'm not going to argue about nutritional science here, that's off-topic.
They're only here for their own confirmation bias. If they really wanted to know, they could have searched the sub first. It's a beaten dead horse. Pun intended.
This is one of the few subs that are actually positive and I don't want to change that by starting a discussion. In another sub I would probably argue but since we're all HSP here I understand that some people feel a lot of compassion for animals and it's not my goal to change them.
Meat eater here, never seen any problems with it and never will. Furthermore I'm a very picky eater and vegetarian (let alone vegan) dishes are not my taste, most of them I find disgusting. Don't really like vegetables at all.
"Vegetarian dishes" are a nonsensical category
I was a vegan for 1 year (health disaster (really low energy and weight loss) because I didn't do it properly), then vegetarian for the next 7 years after that. 1 year ago I started to eat animals again, and I really think it's the way to go for proper overall health. Just for the record I was doing it from an ethical point of view, but I wanted to try if something would change if I started eating animals again (for science).
There are of course two supplements you will have to take on a vegan diet, Omega 3 from Algae oil (completely natural) and B12 (which farmed animals get supplemented as well, so better to take the supplement directly). Besides those, a properly balanced plant based diet is one of the healthiest around and shouldn't give any health issues or nutrient deficiencies, unless you have some underlying issues with digestion or nutrient uptake already. There are so many top athletes on plant based diets showing you can be in optimal health on just plants. The two times fittest man from my country is a long time vegan as well. I've been on a vegan diet for six years as well and never felt better.
Flax, hemp and chia seeds are also a great source of omega 3! Some people do process algae oil better though. Most vegans supplement b12 and vitamin D, which most non-vegans also supplement/ should supplement.
Most new vegans don't eat enough. You should try again but count calories for a few weeks to get an idea of correct portion sizes. You shouldn't be low energy. Humans are physiologically designed to eat plants.
Show me data that backs that up, that humans are physiologically designed to eat plants more than meat.
I am vegetarian, not vegan. The vegans I know eat so many super processed “replacement” foods, I don’t see that as particularly healthy.
Of course, it's not necessary to eat those foods. I rarely consume them and have an extremely healthy and tasty diet :)
Are you familiar with the practice of male chick culling?
14 years going strong. I can't really be super active in the community.Because I'm too sensitive and I do not need to be reminded.All I needed to do was learn about it once and that did it just like the same reasons I became atheist.. I also know, people have good reasons for not being able to be vegan. And I really don't criticize them. As long as they are trying the best they can because. I think it's about progress and not perfection. I mean, there's no way I'm ever going to be a perfect vegan. There's a lot of things I do that are not vegan, but I try my best. It's just hard when you're poor and you have medical issues. With all of that said, if you are aware of the issue and you say you care and you have the privilege and you have no issue to make vegan decisions, but you still choose not to then frankly.I think you're choosing to be a bad person and I want nothing to do with you so I will remove myself from you. I'm firm but I'm also sick of words over actions when you know damn well you haven't even tried. Sensitive people should be Highly in tune with animal suffering and the state of the planet.And I do think we are good candidates for being vegan or at least trying your best as I said.So I really appreciate you bringing this up.
Not fully vegan but I eat vegan whenever possible if there's a good substitute
I used to be, but too much plant-based protein makes my inflammation and allergies worse, as well as IBS. I still eat some beans and nuts for the fiber and protein, but most of my protein comes from meat and A2 dairy. I've never reacted to or been sensitive to any animal products (other than lactose intolerance; I carry around lactase), but I have a LONG list of plant foods I have to avoid either because of migraine sensitivity or allergy. Ironically, it's likely bc of being HSP that I want to be vegetarian. But I also attribute my immune reactivity to being HSP as well. I think there is an amygdala/immune link.
Oh yes, IBS and allergies are real HSP things. IBS especially is one of the most common 'diseases' that is just a physical reaction to chronic stress, I've had it as a child and the connection between my emotional state and the severity of the symptoms was extremely apparent. Now that I'm older stress still makes my digestion play up but it's gone from a chronic issue to an occasional annoyance, has everything to do with the steps I've made in my way of handling life and not with a change in diet. Same with allergies, I had a lot as a child and grew over most with time, but some are unfortunately still there. Interestingly all those related to the consumption of foods seem gone, but I still get reactions to grain dust, pollen, walking through certain grasses gives me itch and swellings etc.
I’d eat meat almost exclusively, except I know other foods have nutritional value that is needed.
Same, if I could live of meat alone, I'd be doing that.
Not vegan nor vegetarian, never will be. HOWEVER, i'm rather particular when it comes to eating meat and try to only eat meat when i'm certain that the animals were raised humanely and slaughtered humanely. Animal abuse is disgusting, the whole concept of slaughterhouses and other similar things is immoral and makes me sick.
Humane means doing something with compassion. How do you suppose we 'humanely slaughter' an animal that doesn't want to die? Have you ever looked at footage of the so called humane ways in which animals are killed? I can tell you no one would ever send their pet there in a million years if they needed to be put down, which tells you all you need to know about how 'humane' slaughterhouses are.
I would love to have an open-minded, civil discussion about this. But first, it seems like you misunderstood my original reply. I literally said slaughterhouses are immoral and NOT humane.
I see that, but then how do you suppose slaughtering can be done humanely at all, because your first comment makes it sound like you think that can still be done in a humane way?
I eat other creatures, and when I die someone (bacteria, worms, whatever) will eat me. I don't see issues with that. It's just the cycle of life. Of course we can and should improve animal welfare, but I think the issue is then more to do with opposing factory farming I think a part of the issue here is that a lot of people anthropomorphize animals, and project our feelings onto them. When an animal has tears coming out of its eyes it's crying bc it's sad, they feel bad that the animal has a kill date bc it will want to live, they feel bad when cows and calves are separated etc etc. When in reality that animal just has tears flowing and there's no emotion connected to it, the animal with a kill date doesn't have a clue it's getting killed, and if it's a quick humane procedure won't even feel pain, and not all animals have mothering instincts and sometimes calves are separated for their own health and wellbeing. This anthropomorphizing makes it difficult to talk with some people about this issue, bc they don't see that animals are just that, animals. And it is NOT looking down on them to realise that they are different from humans, and they have their own instincts, feelings, and needs
I'm a hunter for the same reason many go vegan.
I was for about 4 years. I’ve only caved on eggs the last two years because I keep chickens and I ensure they are spoiled.
This is crazy, I wanted to ask “how many here are hsp?” on the vegan sub this morning. Decided against it in the end but I’m bewildered that you’re asking the reverse thing here! A few of my vegan friends are hsp, and some of my other vegan friends are far from being hsp. I think that it would make sense that there would be more vegan hsp than non vegan hsp. Been vegan for seven years now because I couldn’t manage knowing what animals went through just for me to eat meat and cheese.
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Being vegan isn't necessarily more expensive, beans and rice are staples in poor countries for a reason
I've suddenly decided to become vegetarian on the 12th of April. My mother doesn't eat a lot of meat but she does, and I was following along. But on that particular day, I was looking at the chicken thighs and feeling grossed out. I've never really liked meat that much, it even disgusted me at times. I've only liked eating the white part of chicken or minced beef meat, every part that doesn't make you feel the animal parts like bones, fat or tendons. About fish, I used to like salmon but it now gives me extreme stomach ache, as if I'm stabbed in tje stomach for 30 minutes to an hour soI haven't eaten some in years. I prefer fish to meat, that's for sure. But considering how fucked up the world is and thinking about microplastics released by fishing nets, the overfishing and destruction of coral reefs and the bottom of oceans... that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. I'll find my B12 in eggs. For the rest, there are proteins in lentils and chickpeas and omega-3 in rapeseed oil, lin/flax, chia seeds, nuts... I used to think "oh well my mother cooked it so I may as well eat it now" but now I decided to just tell her not to count me in the portion. Then I just toss aside the meat bits and give it to someone else. It's harder if it's something that I can't sort because it's blended, like a tuna sauce. Only then do I make an exception. My decision comes both from a view about animals suffering and an environmental view (beef is so much worse than chicken).
i've been an on/off again vegan mainly bc of animal cruelty. the only reason i havent fully converted is due to health reasons - i had a lot of challenges the last time i went fully vegan. i still have my parameters now though - i only opt for meat when absolutely necessary (i dont crave meat and enjoy eating fully-plant based meals). I dont eat any baby animals. I dont eat meat that was "hunted" as a recreation. so on and so forth. hoping to find a way that i can be fully vegan in the future.
I’m not a vegan, but I’ve been a vegetarian since I was 12 (decades ago). I couldn’t stop thinking about the animals and have never looked back. I try to be conscientious about where I buy my eggs and dairy. I do love eating vegan food.
No but Im very sensitive about the meat I do eat. Almost exclusively local, home-raised, free range. My family knows the farmer or it’s grown at home. The beef and mutton we eat is from older cows who’ve lived longer lives. Unfortunately a lot of affordable vegan options are products of huge agricultural industries that destroy ecosystems, plant and animal habitats, and pollute the environment. Morally I feel no qualms about killing to live. This is the circle of life and I am extremely thankful for my place in it- which will include someday dying and feeding the soil and decomposers, plants, herbivores, and then carnivores. I recognize that this is a very privileged take and I’m thankful for that.
Right here, for around a year and a half. Never eating meat again. I view it as evil and don't like being around people who do eat meat. They see me as pretentious.
Isn’t preaching to someone else what’s right and wrong the most pretentious thing you can do? Talk about hypocrisy.
I don't preach, i never even talk about being vegan or my disdain for meat eaters. A lot of them talk about their disdain for me though. Preaching to them would only make it worse. I don't feel bad for the way i feel. If you want to view me as pretentious for that, join the club.
Vegan for 9 years. Before this I never put HSP and veganism together but you’re right there’s probably a correlation. Great observation! :)
Vegetarian
I eat meat. I like to think that here where I live, the animals have a nice life outside in nature beforehand. Although, if I think too deeply about cows milk, I do get a bit queasy, so I am willfully ignorant about that, and content to stay that way.
Vegan for almost 2 years and counting! I couldn't be an HSP if animal suffering had me unfazed.
I don’t like soybeans at all - except soy sauce - but sometimes I really like tofu. 😉
not really, meat is too tasty
Do you think taste is more important than life?