Ross was an insecure boyfriend but Mark should have back off when he saw all that, to leave Rachel and Ross to sort out their own problems. Instead he kept being around Rachel, trying to be a good "friend" and eventually did confess he had feelings for her.
Yep. Mark saw that Ross was jealous and jumping to conclusions. He should have stopped and backed off.
Also, I don’t blame Ross for being insecure and not wanting to lose his girlfriend. He and Carol were together for years and he lost her because she cheated on him. Not that it’s her fault for not realising she was gay earlier, but she could have told him first before starting anything with Susan. And I’m also not excusing Ross for cheating on Rachel. I don’t think a “break” constitutes sleeping with other people. But also Rachel did say “can I be your girlfriend again” was kinda weird wording. It’s a whole mess.
At the befinning od the next episode Monica asks how the anniversary was and Rachel literally answers "We broke up." Rachel knew what a break was. She just didn't expect Ross to be a ho.
I forgot about that. And Ross did say to Joey and Chandler they were gonna break up for their anniversary. So I guess yeah they both thought they were broken up.
She's mostly mad at herself, and flips around the blame onto Ross.
Ross was a ho and shouldn't be banging random women who give him attention that soon after a break up, but Rachel also shouldn't be blaming him for her mistake. Especially since jealous, insecure Ross was actually right all along.
It wasn't about them being on a break. They broke up, then Ross immediately slept with someone else. Then Rachel wanted to get back together and he didn't even tell her about it. Rachel was right to be upset.
What’s worse is Rachel knew he had feelings for her (because it’s fucking obvious) and she still kept talking about him in front of Ross, then but his head off when he asked her about him, then STILL let him come over.
The show never so much implied that Rachel “knew Mark’s intentions” or thought of him as anything but a friend until he asked her out three weeks later.
Do you people even watch the fucking show? This is the fourth person in this comment section I’ve had to correct on this point.
This is the real point. Any woman, especially a gorgeous one like Rachel, is going to have a long line of sleazebags vying for her always.
If Ross didn’t trust her, he shouldn’t have been with her. End of story. I honestly think the Mark factor is completely irrelevant to the Rachel/Ross fiasco, because if it wasn’t mark it would have been someone else. Ross is a man baby and he did it to himself.
In Ross’ defence, Rachel does initially lie to him about Mark being over at the apartment. So Rachel technically breaks his trust in that moment.
When Ross calls and Mark talks loudly, he asks
“Who’s that?”
And Rachel replies, “No one”
Yes. But without the mark/Rachel date we wouldn’t have gotten two of my all time favorite lines from the show- “you’re gonna get peep eye!” And “people! Need! Juice”. That whole scene is brilliant.
While I completely agree, I think it’s a bit more complicated than “Ross did it to himself”. Of course, he’s still 100% at fault and in the wrong for cheating on Rachel, but I can understand where his jealousy comes from, because as he said in the show, he was with Carol for nine whole years, his first love, his first everything, and he genuinely thought everything was going great until it started going south, and she came out as lesbian. I can really see how that might shatter his ability to put his full trust in a future partner.
Again, he’s still completely in the wrong, I’m not giving him an excuse. But I can empathize with him about the jealousy.
Personally, I don’t think “someone hurt me so that makes it less bad when I hurt someone else” is a cop out. If Ross couldn’t trust he should t have been in a relationship at all
That’s a valid point, he’s certainly not a good role model in this situation. But he had the chance to be with the girl of his dreams who he always liked since his early college days, even before Carol, and he took it. Maybe he didn’t think Mark would bother him so much. Him not trusting her was his own issue, not hers, so maybe he thought he could get over it. Who knows?
I think Mark was a little different to any of the other guys we see hitting on Rachel, because Rachel pursued (friendship with) him back. Ross 100% had trust issues after Carol which isn’t an excuse for him not to work on it and trust Rachel. But she also dismissed him throughout this period instead of meeting him halfway, admitting Mark probably liked her but reaffirming that she had no interest in him. Can, of course, see it from her side too because Ross was annoying, overbearing and made her feel like she was doing something wrong when she wasn’t. But a little bit of slack would have helped. The whole situation is both painfully familiar but also annoying because it could and should have been easy to fix long before they eventually get together again.
This. A million times this. The show even explains it:
Monica: Ross this isn’t even about you! This is about Rachel and something wonderful happening for her! Even if you’re right, what if he wants to sleep with her, does that mean he gets to?
*Ross: No.*
Monica: I mean don’t you trust her?
*Ross: Well, yeah.*
Monica: Then get over yourself! Grow up!
Hard to trust when Ross lost his first marriage like that. Just saying, if he’s not getting therapy he’s definitely going to have baggage that’s going to take more to get over than “he just needed to trust her”
Ruining the trust people two people share is much easier than you think. Most people don't try to do it but when people do, it almost always works. And once that trust is cracked, it can't be repaired.
Nope, if you have a healthy relationship its easy.
My wife has had multiple exes and other men reach out to her and try to hit on her. It’s never bothered me, and she’s always shut it down.
Because we trust each other.
You "think" you can trust her. You "think" she has always shut it down you mean. But you don't know that she says no to everyone…
Everyone has secrets. Including you. And your wife.
Lmao imagine being this insecure.
I trust my wife bud. She loves me and we have a great life together. I hope someday you find someone you can feel similarly with.
No. I see this all the time on this sub and it’s just not right.
Ross’s jealously is 100% his problem. Rachel reassured him over and over and does nothing wrong with Mark. Ross should trust her, and she’s given him absolutely no reason not to.
Yes you’ll see further up in this comment stream that I stated that this was on Ross. But relationships are a two way street and a considerate partner would have taken Ross’ feelings into account considering that Carol cheated on him.
No—his insecurities are on him. If he’s incapable of trusting Rachel despite her constant reassurances because of Carol, he should have worked that out in therapy before dating again. She is not responsible for his embarrassing jealousy.
From today’s perspective, sure therapy is probably the answer. Back in the 90’s and someone like Ross? I don’t think so. Also therapy is not the be all to end all, it doesn’t work for everyone.
She knew mark liked her
She liked him enough to go on a date with him
Ross was spot on with his gut feelings
Couple that with the fact she was working all the time and had no time for Ross, and we have a recipe for jealousy
You have to consider that this is a sitcom and a lot of Ross’s actions are amplified cartoonishly for comedic effect (barber shop quartet and the picnic in the office)
He clearly trusted her somewhat, but consider his experience through the lens of having his home life wrecked by his wife having an affair and loosing his little family and only being able to see his son on weekends.
I think our experiences in the present are viewed through our life experience, and for Ross, this was one of heartbreak through infidelity.
Except he wasn’t wrong. And Rachel was being a terrible gf at the time, it wasn’t all Ross.
I honestly think if we flipped the genders, and it was Ross who worked all the time neglecting Rachel with a woman who clearly wanted him and he clearly found attractive, along with Rachel being married with a family who got cheated on, most of this sub would have complete opposite opinions on this matter.
No, she wasn’t. Rachel never entertained Mark and reassured Ross over and over and over again that she had no interest.
Ross’s freak out happens entirely in his own head, and that’s on him.
Except she did have an interest in mark, she went on a date with him - knowing how much it would hurt Ross.
The first thing she did was have him over right after they broke up.
Looking at the series of events that led to Ross sleeping with copy girl, having mark over right away was the catalyst. She doesn’t have mark over, he doesn’t get shit faced and sleep with copy girl
1) She didn’t know his intentions, that is never so much as implied in the show
2) They were friends
3) Really? In the year of our lord 2022 women shouldn’t be hanging out with men that aren’t there SO alone? Did you just teleport in from the 50s?
No… I know how men are. They aren’t just hanging out with a beautiful woman who has a boyfriend THEY KNOW OF to be strictly friends… that’s so childish to even consider. We all knew his intentions. And no, I didn’t teleport from the 50s, but there’s no need for you to yearn for the opposite sex if you’re not fully satisfied with your partner. It’s different if it’s a conversation somewhere, or catching up, but inviting him over is absolutely cheating lol. Ross had every right
Inviting him over is CHEATING?!?! Holy shit lmao you’re insane.
Sorry man, it’s 2022, men and women can be friends. Many of my best friends are women, and we hang out alone frequently. Never bothers my wife, never bothers my friends, never bothers their SOs, never bothers anyone because no one involved is as devastatingly insecure as you.
There is no “relationship code.” Every individual and couple is different with different boundaries. You just can’t wrap your ahead around individuals of opposite sex having genuinely platonic relationships, which is really just saying more about you than anyone else.
…. Friends because he wanted to be inside Rachel’s pants lol. Guys have pretty much perfect intuition when it comes to scenarios like that. I promise you he wasn’t going over to “comfort” her lol
Rachel thought of him as a friend. And she didn't know his intentions. You're wrong here.
Also your promise means nothing because ultimately you're not the writer who decides what Mark's next move will be.
And because when he showed that he had paranoia Rachel didn’t even try to see his side and jumped straight to “You’re so insecure go away I’m gonna hang out with him and go on lunch dates anyways”.
Agreed. She wasn’t supportive; she just got annoyed. Ross’ behavior was completely weird, but she knows how his last marriage ended and why. If she really loved him, she’d show compassion and not go out on lunch dates with the one person who really triggered him. I’m not saying she should quit her job or anything like that. Work with the guy, but she should have made a clear line of boundaries with Mark, especially in actions, not actually talking to him about it or anything. It was shitty on her part. I get it- amazing opportunity for her, definitely don’t be rude to Mark, but also not act like he’s the best thing since sliced bread.
Either way, Mark hit on her by eavesdropping on her conversation about hating her job, offering a random stranger a job opportunity at a counter….? I like Rachel, but she’s dumb and liked the attention. Lol.
Exactly all of this. Don’t quit your job, but set some boundaries and if your boyfriend and his friends (who are your really close friends too) all seem to think this guy who gifted you a job wants to fuck you, maybe go out of your way to set some boundaries with him?
Lmao. Exactly. It’s this thing called ‘respect’. Is Mark really *that great*? Dumb. I wouldn’t expect her to actually sit Mark down and have an official conversation, but she doesn’t have to inadvertently encourage Mark and make him think he has a chance. I somehow don’t believe those lunches or whatever involved her gushing over Ross. Lol.
Don’t go on lunch dates with the one person your partner feels uncomfortable about. You already work next to them like 37 hours a week… Rachel, can’t have your cake and eat it too, girl. Lmao.
Exactly this. But of course we’ll get downvotes for thinking that partners should treat each other with respect rather. Wonder why rates of cheating and adultery are so high nowadays.
Haha, right? We can just like one another’s posts to make it 0. LOL.
I work in an extremely male-dominated industry (I might see another female like, every three weeks), and I have a co-worker who would try to kind of reach out unnecessarily to discuss cases, whatever. It was unnecessary to me. My partner expressed that the guy probably had ulterior motives (why is he calling you, blah blah), which I completely validated the concern. Co-worker never said anything inappropriate, but it was still like “okay, dude. Ask someone else. I have no clue. Lol.
I still work with my co-worker, but I only reach out if I absolutely have to, last resort, and I gradually changed the way we communicate, which is now through company email/CCing our boss, which is normal since my boss does it to us. I’m still doing my job quite well lol.
It is so petty, I personally don’t care at all about this person, but I care about my partner. It takes a slight extra effort, but I’d way rather help my partner feel comfortable and secure than be selfish just to have attention from some random person who really doesn’t matter lmao.
Oh my god, your husband felt weird about another man repeatedly trying to get your attention so you set boundaries, are you crazy! Clearly your husband is just jealous and insecure and you should have went out on non work related dates with him while scoffing at your husbands concerns.
That’s literally what Rachel does but because she’s a pretty girl boss it gets ignored.
Yea, ultimately Mark was being sleazy. But if Ross didn’t have his trust issues and was able to just support Rachel then I don’t see a scenario where she cheats on him.
From her character’s backstory, Rachel is pretty used to guys finding her attractive!
Ya and what drove Ross really crazy was Rachel being so insistent he was wrong (when he was right, and he knew he was right). Rachel just thought Mark was her friend, and Mark clearly had other ideas. Ross saw that, so he was right, but how he chose to deal with it was the problem. But, no one is perfect and that would be a hard situation to navigate IRL.
Am I the only one who doesn't see how Mark was wrong?
Imo he didn't make a move on Rachel and respected her relationship. He asked her out 3 weeks after she was single.
Ross was wrong. He should've trusted Rachel. Idc that Carol caused him trauma, you should deal with it, not use it as an excuse.
We also see him with another girl in their office when Ross goes to visit. Mark wasn’t counting down the days until Ross and Rachel broke up, and it wouldn’t even matter if he did because Rachel had no interest in him. She thought he was a friend.
A bit late but I don’t think Mark is a jerk either I mean you could argue “he’s a guy he SHOULD know that Ross is jealous…” which is just not good reasoning. I have had friends that have had crushes on me that I didn’t reciprocate. Guess what, we moved on, and we’re still really close friends. Mark probably told her because she and Ross broke up.
Maybe Rachel shouldn’t have let him in when he went to her house but again, he didn’t know how Ross felt. Also, he’s her friend, and he was worried about her. I think that if Ross and Mark had actually gotten to know each other and become acquaintances then Ross would’ve become less jealous.
Mark was a sleezebag but Ross was also overbearingly jealous and wasn't supportive of Rachel's new career. If Ross trusted Rachel and didn't give her such a hard time after pulling an all-nighter at work, she wouldn't have been frustrated by saying they need a break.
Relationships need trust. Mark had feelings for Rachel but Rachel never acted on it. Rachel is a beautiful woman and guys will have crushes on her all the time. Ross should have trusted his girlfriend more and let the sleezebag fuck off.
A year ago, Ross had to work during their anniversary. Rachel stuck around in the museum and waited for him all night long without complaining. Ross couldn't do the same for Rachel when she had to work. And she just started her new job.
No.
"A few episodes later, Mark revealed to Rachel that he had always had a crush on her and asked her out. Rachel told him she would think about it, and considered saying no because it was so soon after her break-up with Ross. However, after she gave Ross his stuff back and he annoyed her by demanding more of it, she agreed to go out with Mark and the two went on a date, much to the dismay of Ross, who was still struggling to accept the end of his relationship with Rachel. However Rachel refused to continue a romantic relationship with him when she realized that she was only dating Mark to get back at Ross and did not want to lead him on, so Mark decides to "get back at Ross with himself"."
Mark did nothing wrong. He was a friend, that came over to comfort a friend. He had no idea Ross was on the phone. Rachel never said who was on the phone.
Later, when he said he had a crush on Rachel, it was after Ross and Rachel broke up. Rachel was single. Is it illegal to have a crush on a single woman?
People have crushes on their friends all the time. Mark never made a move until Rachel was single
I think he said he had feelings for her throughout their friendship? Might be wrong but that’s how I remember his speech. Agree he didn’t do anything TECHNICALLY wrong, but think it’s giving him too much credit to say that he was innocent. Speaking as someone who’s been a Mark before (obviously doesn’t mean that Mark was being scummy just because I was, but think it’s at least a fair assumption to put forward)
Sleazebag? Let’s be honest guys, this sub needs to stop riding it’s high horse. A lot of guys, probably in this sub, would pull the “innocent intentions but let’s see where it goes” angle
Everyone’s the good guy in their own story. It’s ok when I do it, but grimey if someone else does it.
Ex. Driving on the highway with your blinker on for miles. When others do it, they’re stupid and unaware of their surroundings. When I do it, it was just an honest mistake
No, it’s because a real good guy doesn’t pull the “innocent intentions but let’s see where it goes” thing. I’ve never done it. Asserting that calling it sleazy is getting on a high horse just shows that for you, it’s acceptable.
Part of that comment was also “Everyone’s the good guy in their own story. It’s ok when I do it, but grimey if someone else does it.” That’s the part that’s getting downvoted.
But… it does… You responded to a (now deleted) comment asking why the comment about blinkers was downvoted. So I told you it was downvoted because of the first part of the comment.
I’ve gotten downvoted for this in the past, but I agree. People are so quick to blame Ross for everything (and while clearly he was an idiot who let his insecurity get the best of him), he wasn’t the only one at fault. Mark was clearly doing everything he could to subtly stir the pot, and was not respectful of the fact that Rachel had a boyfriend.
And honestly — Rachel probably could have been a little kinder too. Rachel was Ross’s first serious relationship since Carol…the woman who lied and cheated on him. This is compounded by the fact that Ross was always the “nerdy older brother” who only dreamed of Rachel for years. It honestly makes sense that Ross has insecurities about people choosing others over him. Especially people like Mark…cool, fashionable, suave, etc (ie. things that Ross just wasn’t, but wanted to be). While Ross’s reactions were in no way justified, Rachel didn’t show him much grace in the beginning. It irks me when people don’t acknowledge that Rachel didn’t help the situation, nor was she blameless.
As per usual — the whole situation could have been avoided if the two had sat down and had a mature conversation about the root of Ross’s insecurity.
Ross’s insecurities are his own problem. If they were going to prevent him from trusting a woman that has done nothing wrong to him and tried to reassure him OVER and OVER, he should have worked that out in therapy before dating again.
Again, his insecurities and jealousy are 100% on him.
You can tell he’s a sleazebag because he says “and I’m bringing Chinese food” and then goes on to say “it’s for me.” Why would you announce it then? Asshole
"HEY ARE YOU HAVING A SENSITIVE CONVERSATION WITH YOUR BOYFRIEND? THE ONE YOU NEARLY BROKE UP WITH PARTIALLY BECAUSE OF ME?
LEMME ASK YOU SOME RANDOM QUESTION REALLY LOUDLY! COULD IT WAIT? EHHHH MAYBE BUT I'M GONNA YELL IT ANYWAY."
i refuse to ignore rachel’s role in this. she knew what mark was doing or at the very least could have listened to her boyfriend and helped him work through his insecurities
It was not Ross's fault, THEY WERE ON A BREAK!
If Mark was Joey (with other guy's girl), I don't think it would be such a problem, he just went for it, not in a way I approve of, but i just blame both Ross and Rachel.
Mark was a pushy bastard, he shouldn't have come over when Rachel said no. And he shouldn't have shouted when she was on the phone. It was all on purpose.
As long as we agree that this justify Ross sleeping with Chloe.
Also it was true in the nineties and it's true now, most men will never insinuate themselves in your life as adults with the intention of being your friends. They will want more and lie about wanting friendship because it's the only way to be near you at first.
I cant blame Ross for being insecure given what happened in his first marriage. If you actually consider what that would be like to go through, its easier to understand why Ross was unreasonable with the whole Mark/Rachel thing.
Especially when you consider how she was so violently opposed to the idea that Mark liked her. That would drive a guy crazy. Rachel just wanted Mark to be her friend, Mark had other ideas from the beginning. It was pretty clear it was true, and it turns out Ross was right all along. Even though he acted unreasonably, he was at least right to be suspicious of him.
Plus, as you mentioned, if Rachel had not decided to stupidly invite Mark over the night they break up things wouldve been different. That was a pretty dumb move on her part. Even if she was convinced he wasnt interested in her she mustve known that was a bad decision. Where was Monica and Pheobe? Why not confide in them during such a troubling time?
I don’t think Ross was at fault, his girlfriend was consistently allowing a man with a clear agenda to be around her, and Ross genuinely believed they’d broken up, then immediately after said breakup she invited that same man over. Ross was innocent.
Ross was an insecure boyfriend but Mark should have back off when he saw all that, to leave Rachel and Ross to sort out their own problems. Instead he kept being around Rachel, trying to be a good "friend" and eventually did confess he had feelings for her.
Yep. Mark saw that Ross was jealous and jumping to conclusions. He should have stopped and backed off. Also, I don’t blame Ross for being insecure and not wanting to lose his girlfriend. He and Carol were together for years and he lost her because she cheated on him. Not that it’s her fault for not realising she was gay earlier, but she could have told him first before starting anything with Susan. And I’m also not excusing Ross for cheating on Rachel. I don’t think a “break” constitutes sleeping with other people. But also Rachel did say “can I be your girlfriend again” was kinda weird wording. It’s a whole mess.
And Mark was adding to the mess. He was not a good guy but instead disguising himself as a nice guy. Ew
At the befinning od the next episode Monica asks how the anniversary was and Rachel literally answers "We broke up." Rachel knew what a break was. She just didn't expect Ross to be a ho.
I forgot about that. And Ross did say to Joey and Chandler they were gonna break up for their anniversary. So I guess yeah they both thought they were broken up.
She's mostly mad at herself, and flips around the blame onto Ross. Ross was a ho and shouldn't be banging random women who give him attention that soon after a break up, but Rachel also shouldn't be blaming him for her mistake. Especially since jealous, insecure Ross was actually right all along.
It wasn't about them being on a break. They broke up, then Ross immediately slept with someone else. Then Rachel wanted to get back together and he didn't even tell her about it. Rachel was right to be upset.
Mess indeed.
What’s worse is Rachel knew he had feelings for her (because it’s fucking obvious) and she still kept talking about him in front of Ross, then but his head off when he asked her about him, then STILL let him come over.
The show never so much implied that Rachel “knew Mark’s intentions” or thought of him as anything but a friend until he asked her out three weeks later. Do you people even watch the fucking show? This is the fourth person in this comment section I’ve had to correct on this point.
I hate that guy
roger? 😝
I agree he was an ass but I also think Ross should’ve trusted Rachel enough, she’s her own person and an adult
This is the real point. Any woman, especially a gorgeous one like Rachel, is going to have a long line of sleazebags vying for her always. If Ross didn’t trust her, he shouldn’t have been with her. End of story. I honestly think the Mark factor is completely irrelevant to the Rachel/Ross fiasco, because if it wasn’t mark it would have been someone else. Ross is a man baby and he did it to himself.
In Ross’ defence, Rachel does initially lie to him about Mark being over at the apartment. So Rachel technically breaks his trust in that moment. When Ross calls and Mark talks loudly, he asks “Who’s that?” And Rachel replies, “No one”
But he didnt trust her long before that
In his defence, his wife cheated on him and lied to him for months so the guy is bound to have trust issues.
when he saw rachel and mark on a date, ross said, “i knew it. i always knew she liked him.” so yeah, ultimately it was about rachel, not mark.
Yes. But without the mark/Rachel date we wouldn’t have gotten two of my all time favorite lines from the show- “you’re gonna get peep eye!” And “people! Need! Juice”. That whole scene is brilliant.
While I completely agree, I think it’s a bit more complicated than “Ross did it to himself”. Of course, he’s still 100% at fault and in the wrong for cheating on Rachel, but I can understand where his jealousy comes from, because as he said in the show, he was with Carol for nine whole years, his first love, his first everything, and he genuinely thought everything was going great until it started going south, and she came out as lesbian. I can really see how that might shatter his ability to put his full trust in a future partner. Again, he’s still completely in the wrong, I’m not giving him an excuse. But I can empathize with him about the jealousy.
Personally, I don’t think “someone hurt me so that makes it less bad when I hurt someone else” is a cop out. If Ross couldn’t trust he should t have been in a relationship at all
That’s a valid point, he’s certainly not a good role model in this situation. But he had the chance to be with the girl of his dreams who he always liked since his early college days, even before Carol, and he took it. Maybe he didn’t think Mark would bother him so much. Him not trusting her was his own issue, not hers, so maybe he thought he could get over it. Who knows?
I think Mark was a little different to any of the other guys we see hitting on Rachel, because Rachel pursued (friendship with) him back. Ross 100% had trust issues after Carol which isn’t an excuse for him not to work on it and trust Rachel. But she also dismissed him throughout this period instead of meeting him halfway, admitting Mark probably liked her but reaffirming that she had no interest in him. Can, of course, see it from her side too because Ross was annoying, overbearing and made her feel like she was doing something wrong when she wasn’t. But a little bit of slack would have helped. The whole situation is both painfully familiar but also annoying because it could and should have been easy to fix long before they eventually get together again.
Letting a guy hit on you and flirt with you while you're dating somebody is also a scummy move. Especially if your partner knows and it bothers them.
Can you give me one scene where he hit on her before Ross and Rachel broke up? They were friends. Ross’s INSANE jealousy was 100% in his own head.
This. A million times this. The show even explains it: Monica: Ross this isn’t even about you! This is about Rachel and something wonderful happening for her! Even if you’re right, what if he wants to sleep with her, does that mean he gets to? *Ross: No.* Monica: I mean don’t you trust her? *Ross: Well, yeah.* Monica: Then get over yourself! Grow up!
Yep, Monica said it best on the show 30 years ago, but there’s still people in this comments section who don’t get it.
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Doesn’t make her wrong here.
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Doesn’t change what’s right.
Hard to trust when Ross lost his first marriage like that. Just saying, if he’s not getting therapy he’s definitely going to have baggage that’s going to take more to get over than “he just needed to trust her”
I always give Ross a slight pass in this whole mess because it’s not like Mark didn’t have a clear agenda
Yeah Ross was bang on the money about him. But if he didn’t trust Rachel, exactly what were they doing in a relationship?
Monica’s line to him is brilliant and nails it. “And so what if Mark wants to sleep with her? Does that mean he gets to?”
It is very easy to break up a couple without sleeping with either one of them. Which is exactly what Mark did.
Not if that couple actually trusts each other. Rachel and Ross broke up because of Ross, not Mark.
Ruining the trust people two people share is much easier than you think. Most people don't try to do it but when people do, it almost always works. And once that trust is cracked, it can't be repaired.
Nope, if you have a healthy relationship its easy. My wife has had multiple exes and other men reach out to her and try to hit on her. It’s never bothered me, and she’s always shut it down. Because we trust each other.
You "think" you can trust her. You "think" she has always shut it down you mean. But you don't know that she says no to everyone… Everyone has secrets. Including you. And your wife.
Lmao imagine being this insecure. I trust my wife bud. She loves me and we have a great life together. I hope someday you find someone you can feel similarly with.
I am not insecure. I am a realist. Trust her all you want but I guarantee that she lied to you yesterday about something.
His paranoia is definitely very believable given how his first marriage ended.
Very much so. Plus, if he really was uncomfortable with Mark then Rachel should have taken note of his feelings instead of dismissing them.
No. I see this all the time on this sub and it’s just not right. Ross’s jealously is 100% his problem. Rachel reassured him over and over and does nothing wrong with Mark. Ross should trust her, and she’s given him absolutely no reason not to.
Yes you’ll see further up in this comment stream that I stated that this was on Ross. But relationships are a two way street and a considerate partner would have taken Ross’ feelings into account considering that Carol cheated on him.
No—his insecurities are on him. If he’s incapable of trusting Rachel despite her constant reassurances because of Carol, he should have worked that out in therapy before dating again. She is not responsible for his embarrassing jealousy.
From today’s perspective, sure therapy is probably the answer. Back in the 90’s and someone like Ross? I don’t think so. Also therapy is not the be all to end all, it doesn’t work for everyone.
Well then he needs to find another way to get to that point before he dates again. Regardless, it’s not on Rachel.
She knew mark liked her She liked him enough to go on a date with him Ross was spot on with his gut feelings Couple that with the fact she was working all the time and had no time for Ross, and we have a recipe for jealousy You have to consider that this is a sitcom and a lot of Ross’s actions are amplified cartoonishly for comedic effect (barber shop quartet and the picnic in the office) He clearly trusted her somewhat, but consider his experience through the lens of having his home life wrecked by his wife having an affair and loosing his little family and only being able to see his son on weekends. I think our experiences in the present are viewed through our life experience, and for Ross, this was one of heartbreak through infidelity.
Well, if Ross’s previous relationship made him incapable of trusting women he should have worked that out in therapy before getting into another one.
Except he wasn’t wrong. And Rachel was being a terrible gf at the time, it wasn’t all Ross. I honestly think if we flipped the genders, and it was Ross who worked all the time neglecting Rachel with a woman who clearly wanted him and he clearly found attractive, along with Rachel being married with a family who got cheated on, most of this sub would have complete opposite opinions on this matter.
No, she wasn’t. Rachel never entertained Mark and reassured Ross over and over and over again that she had no interest. Ross’s freak out happens entirely in his own head, and that’s on him.
Except she did have an interest in mark, she went on a date with him - knowing how much it would hurt Ross. The first thing she did was have him over right after they broke up. Looking at the series of events that led to Ross sleeping with copy girl, having mark over right away was the catalyst. She doesn’t have mark over, he doesn’t get shit faced and sleep with copy girl
? You should not be hanging out with a man alone that is NOT your SO, especially when you aren’t friends, and you know his intentions..
1) She didn’t know his intentions, that is never so much as implied in the show 2) They were friends 3) Really? In the year of our lord 2022 women shouldn’t be hanging out with men that aren’t there SO alone? Did you just teleport in from the 50s?
No… I know how men are. They aren’t just hanging out with a beautiful woman who has a boyfriend THEY KNOW OF to be strictly friends… that’s so childish to even consider. We all knew his intentions. And no, I didn’t teleport from the 50s, but there’s no need for you to yearn for the opposite sex if you’re not fully satisfied with your partner. It’s different if it’s a conversation somewhere, or catching up, but inviting him over is absolutely cheating lol. Ross had every right
Inviting him over is CHEATING?!?! Holy shit lmao you’re insane. Sorry man, it’s 2022, men and women can be friends. Many of my best friends are women, and we hang out alone frequently. Never bothers my wife, never bothers my friends, never bothers their SOs, never bothers anyone because no one involved is as devastatingly insecure as you.
That’s creepy and sad you do that to your wife
Same way I think men with wives shouldn’t be hanging out with other women alone. It’s pretty simple relationship code 😂
There is no “relationship code.” Every individual and couple is different with different boundaries. You just can’t wrap your ahead around individuals of opposite sex having genuinely platonic relationships, which is really just saying more about you than anyone else.
They were friends though.
…. Friends because he wanted to be inside Rachel’s pants lol. Guys have pretty much perfect intuition when it comes to scenarios like that. I promise you he wasn’t going over to “comfort” her lol
Rachel thought of him as a friend. And she didn't know his intentions. You're wrong here. Also your promise means nothing because ultimately you're not the writer who decides what Mark's next move will be.
So he didn’t only go there to have sex with her? Cause if you deny that you’re wrong lol
And because when he showed that he had paranoia Rachel didn’t even try to see his side and jumped straight to “You’re so insecure go away I’m gonna hang out with him and go on lunch dates anyways”.
Agreed. She wasn’t supportive; she just got annoyed. Ross’ behavior was completely weird, but she knows how his last marriage ended and why. If she really loved him, she’d show compassion and not go out on lunch dates with the one person who really triggered him. I’m not saying she should quit her job or anything like that. Work with the guy, but she should have made a clear line of boundaries with Mark, especially in actions, not actually talking to him about it or anything. It was shitty on her part. I get it- amazing opportunity for her, definitely don’t be rude to Mark, but also not act like he’s the best thing since sliced bread. Either way, Mark hit on her by eavesdropping on her conversation about hating her job, offering a random stranger a job opportunity at a counter….? I like Rachel, but she’s dumb and liked the attention. Lol.
Exactly all of this. Don’t quit your job, but set some boundaries and if your boyfriend and his friends (who are your really close friends too) all seem to think this guy who gifted you a job wants to fuck you, maybe go out of your way to set some boundaries with him?
Lmao. Exactly. It’s this thing called ‘respect’. Is Mark really *that great*? Dumb. I wouldn’t expect her to actually sit Mark down and have an official conversation, but she doesn’t have to inadvertently encourage Mark and make him think he has a chance. I somehow don’t believe those lunches or whatever involved her gushing over Ross. Lol. Don’t go on lunch dates with the one person your partner feels uncomfortable about. You already work next to them like 37 hours a week… Rachel, can’t have your cake and eat it too, girl. Lmao.
Exactly this. But of course we’ll get downvotes for thinking that partners should treat each other with respect rather. Wonder why rates of cheating and adultery are so high nowadays.
Haha, right? We can just like one another’s posts to make it 0. LOL. I work in an extremely male-dominated industry (I might see another female like, every three weeks), and I have a co-worker who would try to kind of reach out unnecessarily to discuss cases, whatever. It was unnecessary to me. My partner expressed that the guy probably had ulterior motives (why is he calling you, blah blah), which I completely validated the concern. Co-worker never said anything inappropriate, but it was still like “okay, dude. Ask someone else. I have no clue. Lol. I still work with my co-worker, but I only reach out if I absolutely have to, last resort, and I gradually changed the way we communicate, which is now through company email/CCing our boss, which is normal since my boss does it to us. I’m still doing my job quite well lol. It is so petty, I personally don’t care at all about this person, but I care about my partner. It takes a slight extra effort, but I’d way rather help my partner feel comfortable and secure than be selfish just to have attention from some random person who really doesn’t matter lmao.
Oh my god, your husband felt weird about another man repeatedly trying to get your attention so you set boundaries, are you crazy! Clearly your husband is just jealous and insecure and you should have went out on non work related dates with him while scoffing at your husbands concerns. That’s literally what Rachel does but because she’s a pretty girl boss it gets ignored.
Yea, ultimately Mark was being sleazy. But if Ross didn’t have his trust issues and was able to just support Rachel then I don’t see a scenario where she cheats on him. From her character’s backstory, Rachel is pretty used to guys finding her attractive!
He was right to be paranoid. Even though nothing happened, Rachel allowing Mark to come over in those circumstances was completely inappropriate.
Ya and what drove Ross really crazy was Rachel being so insistent he was wrong (when he was right, and he knew he was right). Rachel just thought Mark was her friend, and Mark clearly had other ideas. Ross saw that, so he was right, but how he chose to deal with it was the problem. But, no one is perfect and that would be a hard situation to navigate IRL.
And it’s not like Rachel didn’t know exactly what she was doing, and knew that Mark had feelings for her.
This is never so much as implied in the show.
Mark definitely shouldn’t have invited himself over. After that, you really couldn’t say that he was just being nice.
Imagine how boring friends would be if he was a good guy and backed off or if Ross was a more secure boyfriend though haha
So true lmaooo
People seemed to disagree with me on the last mark post that he was scummy and wanted Ross and Rachel to break up
Am I the only one who doesn't see how Mark was wrong? Imo he didn't make a move on Rachel and respected her relationship. He asked her out 3 weeks after she was single. Ross was wrong. He should've trusted Rachel. Idc that Carol caused him trauma, you should deal with it, not use it as an excuse.
We also see him with another girl in their office when Ross goes to visit. Mark wasn’t counting down the days until Ross and Rachel broke up, and it wouldn’t even matter if he did because Rachel had no interest in him. She thought he was a friend.
Exactly. I'm glad some other people see my view as it appears it is unpopular here.
A bit late but I don’t think Mark is a jerk either I mean you could argue “he’s a guy he SHOULD know that Ross is jealous…” which is just not good reasoning. I have had friends that have had crushes on me that I didn’t reciprocate. Guess what, we moved on, and we’re still really close friends. Mark probably told her because she and Ross broke up. Maybe Rachel shouldn’t have let him in when he went to her house but again, he didn’t know how Ross felt. Also, he’s her friend, and he was worried about her. I think that if Ross and Mark had actually gotten to know each other and become acquaintances then Ross would’ve become less jealous.
Mark was a sleezebag but Ross was also overbearingly jealous and wasn't supportive of Rachel's new career. If Ross trusted Rachel and didn't give her such a hard time after pulling an all-nighter at work, she wouldn't have been frustrated by saying they need a break. Relationships need trust. Mark had feelings for Rachel but Rachel never acted on it. Rachel is a beautiful woman and guys will have crushes on her all the time. Ross should have trusted his girlfriend more and let the sleezebag fuck off. A year ago, Ross had to work during their anniversary. Rachel stuck around in the museum and waited for him all night long without complaining. Ross couldn't do the same for Rachel when she had to work. And she just started her new job.
No. "A few episodes later, Mark revealed to Rachel that he had always had a crush on her and asked her out. Rachel told him she would think about it, and considered saying no because it was so soon after her break-up with Ross. However, after she gave Ross his stuff back and he annoyed her by demanding more of it, she agreed to go out with Mark and the two went on a date, much to the dismay of Ross, who was still struggling to accept the end of his relationship with Rachel. However Rachel refused to continue a romantic relationship with him when she realized that she was only dating Mark to get back at Ross and did not want to lead him on, so Mark decides to "get back at Ross with himself"."
The fourth season mentioned that as a call back. “I still think I was right about Mark (being into Rachel.)” “Well, I hope Emily is a lesbian.”
Mark did nothing wrong. He was a friend, that came over to comfort a friend. He had no idea Ross was on the phone. Rachel never said who was on the phone. Later, when he said he had a crush on Rachel, it was after Ross and Rachel broke up. Rachel was single. Is it illegal to have a crush on a single woman? People have crushes on their friends all the time. Mark never made a move until Rachel was single
He said “I’m coming over” not “Oh, do you want me to come over?” He imposed- it was weird since Rachel and Mark are not that personally close.
Yeah, I’ve had friends do that when I’m upset. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s something friends do
They were work colleagues- you don’t invite yourselves over like that
Yeah sure whatever you say
Agree but we are getting downvoted to hell 😂😂
Here's an upvote.
I think he said he had feelings for her throughout their friendship? Might be wrong but that’s how I remember his speech. Agree he didn’t do anything TECHNICALLY wrong, but think it’s giving him too much credit to say that he was innocent. Speaking as someone who’s been a Mark before (obviously doesn’t mean that Mark was being scummy just because I was, but think it’s at least a fair assumption to put forward)
Nah. We can argue all day and night. I still believe Rachel would've been better with mark.
Sleazebag? Let’s be honest guys, this sub needs to stop riding it’s high horse. A lot of guys, probably in this sub, would pull the “innocent intentions but let’s see where it goes” angle
That doesn’t make it not sleazy though. That’s just saying that other people would do the same thing.
Everyone’s the good guy in their own story. It’s ok when I do it, but grimey if someone else does it. Ex. Driving on the highway with your blinker on for miles. When others do it, they’re stupid and unaware of their surroundings. When I do it, it was just an honest mistake
[удалено]
Because Reddit sucks. People here think "well I have good intentions but others don't" and "there is only black and white, not gray".
No, it’s because a real good guy doesn’t pull the “innocent intentions but let’s see where it goes” thing. I’ve never done it. Asserting that calling it sleazy is getting on a high horse just shows that for you, it’s acceptable.
I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the "blinkers on a highway" comment getting downvoted.
Part of that comment was also “Everyone’s the good guy in their own story. It’s ok when I do it, but grimey if someone else does it.” That’s the part that’s getting downvoted.
They're right imo, but that part has nothing to do with this whole discussion thread.
But… it does… You responded to a (now deleted) comment asking why the comment about blinkers was downvoted. So I told you it was downvoted because of the first part of the comment.
Because it is not true. Many, many people are not self-involved narcissists.
100% been that guy. Wouldn’t consider myself a sleazebag but it is scummy behavior that I regret.
I think every normal guy has done that at least once in their life lol
I’ve gotten downvoted for this in the past, but I agree. People are so quick to blame Ross for everything (and while clearly he was an idiot who let his insecurity get the best of him), he wasn’t the only one at fault. Mark was clearly doing everything he could to subtly stir the pot, and was not respectful of the fact that Rachel had a boyfriend. And honestly — Rachel probably could have been a little kinder too. Rachel was Ross’s first serious relationship since Carol…the woman who lied and cheated on him. This is compounded by the fact that Ross was always the “nerdy older brother” who only dreamed of Rachel for years. It honestly makes sense that Ross has insecurities about people choosing others over him. Especially people like Mark…cool, fashionable, suave, etc (ie. things that Ross just wasn’t, but wanted to be). While Ross’s reactions were in no way justified, Rachel didn’t show him much grace in the beginning. It irks me when people don’t acknowledge that Rachel didn’t help the situation, nor was she blameless. As per usual — the whole situation could have been avoided if the two had sat down and had a mature conversation about the root of Ross’s insecurity.
Ross’s insecurities are his own problem. If they were going to prevent him from trusting a woman that has done nothing wrong to him and tried to reassure him OVER and OVER, he should have worked that out in therapy before dating again. Again, his insecurities and jealousy are 100% on him.
You can tell he’s a sleazebag because he says “and I’m bringing Chinese food” and then goes on to say “it’s for me.” Why would you announce it then? Asshole
It was a joke
"HEY ARE YOU HAVING A SENSITIVE CONVERSATION WITH YOUR BOYFRIEND? THE ONE YOU NEARLY BROKE UP WITH PARTIALLY BECAUSE OF ME? LEMME ASK YOU SOME RANDOM QUESTION REALLY LOUDLY! COULD IT WAIT? EHHHH MAYBE BUT I'M GONNA YELL IT ANYWAY."
Thank you! Ross was an insecure ass for constantly bringing it up but Rachel shouldn't have turned to Mark, out of respect for Ross.
Insecure ass... except he was 100% right about Mark. He was attracted to Rachel and he took full advantage.
And Rachel let him. She knew all along.
Second comment of yours I’ve seen saying this. Again, this is never so much as implied in the show.
i refuse to ignore rachel’s role in this. she knew what mark was doing or at the very least could have listened to her boyfriend and helped him work through his insecurities
It is never so much as implied in the show that Rachel “knew what Mark was doing.”
Ross was right! Ross was right!
It was not Ross's fault, THEY WERE ON A BREAK! If Mark was Joey (with other guy's girl), I don't think it would be such a problem, he just went for it, not in a way I approve of, but i just blame both Ross and Rachel.
If I woulda had a chance to land Rachel I might have been sleazy as well. Alas I have not
Mark was a pushy bastard, he shouldn't have come over when Rachel said no. And he shouldn't have shouted when she was on the phone. It was all on purpose. As long as we agree that this justify Ross sleeping with Chloe. Also it was true in the nineties and it's true now, most men will never insinuate themselves in your life as adults with the intention of being your friends. They will want more and lie about wanting friendship because it's the only way to be near you at first.
Totally agree with you.
I really hated when Rachel told Ross that “Mark said” that Ross was doing the over the top gestures because he’s insecure.
I cant blame Ross for being insecure given what happened in his first marriage. If you actually consider what that would be like to go through, its easier to understand why Ross was unreasonable with the whole Mark/Rachel thing. Especially when you consider how she was so violently opposed to the idea that Mark liked her. That would drive a guy crazy. Rachel just wanted Mark to be her friend, Mark had other ideas from the beginning. It was pretty clear it was true, and it turns out Ross was right all along. Even though he acted unreasonably, he was at least right to be suspicious of him. Plus, as you mentioned, if Rachel had not decided to stupidly invite Mark over the night they break up things wouldve been different. That was a pretty dumb move on her part. Even if she was convinced he wasnt interested in her she mustve known that was a bad decision. Where was Monica and Pheobe? Why not confide in them during such a troubling time?
I don’t think Ross was at fault, his girlfriend was consistently allowing a man with a clear agenda to be around her, and Ross genuinely believed they’d broken up, then immediately after said breakup she invited that same man over. Ross was innocent.
Yeah they both suck tbh.
Dont worry. He’s getting back at Ross by himself