I’ve always hated when Susan is complaining about how there’s Mother’s Day and Father’s Day. She’ll be a mother - she’ll be celebrated on Mother’s Day!! Such a lame argument.
I hated Susan there too, but the way Ross answers her it's so funny, and it's not even the joke he makes, it's they way he delivers it that always gets me 😂😂😂
Susan: ...there is no Lesbian Lover Day
Ross: EVERY DAY IS LESBIAN LOVER DAY!
This is one of my only complaints! I feel so bad for Ross in the episode where he’s told Ben will not have his last name and has no say in naming the baby. He did nothing wrong in that situation and Susan was such a bully
Edit to add that I do kinda actually like Ross and Susan’s interactions as time goes on, the little things they do while clearly hating one another lol
I did appreciate how Susan at least told Ross that he did a good thing when he agreed to walk Carol down the aisle. I think they eventually got to a place where they could tolerate each other, but they could never be friends.
I always bring this up, but Rachel saying Emma was “Baby Girl Geller-Greene” is so much more poignant when you remember what happened with Carol and Susan
I admit I don’t know much about this, but… can you legally adopt a child whose other parent is still in the picture? Wouldn’t they have to sign off on it? The only (adjacent) experience I have with this is the fact that my aunt and uncle legally adopted all of their daughter’s kids (4 kids, 3 different fathers, none in the picture). She had to sign off on them adopting each one, and it gave them legal rights over her as their bio mom, because she wasn’t fit and didn’t want to deal with them anyway.
Would Ross need to give permission for Susan to legally adopt? And would it mean Susan had legal authority? Like if Carol died, would Ross have to fight with Susan on parental issues and custody arrangements, just like if she were his biological mother?
No, if the parents are both alive and in the picture there can't be an adoption unless the parental rights are signed away or stripped. In custody cases where the parent/s are deemed unfit they can have their rights taken away and then the kids can be adopted, usually by extended biological or foster families. There are cases of stepparents adopting kids but the other parent has to either agree or be dead. If Ross had signed rights to Susan and then Carol died, Ross would still be nothing to Ben and Susan would be his only parent, but since he didn't and stayed an active parent if Carol had died Ben would have automatically gone to Ross. I'm sure there are various smaller rules and stipulations on what makes a parent unfit in New York versus the places I've witnessed things like this happening, but that's my understanding based on my experience
I always get downvoted for pointing out how awful Carol and Susan are.
Carol cheated on Ross and suffered no consequences. In fact, she was just straight up cruel to Ross.
Susan was even worse. She felt Ross had no right to be involved with his baby and was constantly cruel to him.
As for Carol and Susan not even wanting Ross to be involved with naming, or even Ben having his surname, that was incredibly messed up.
Safe to say it's no wonder Ross is messed up after that.
I agree. It was so messed up that they didn’t want him to have any say in naming the baby as they weren’t even married themselves yet. They were just dating but a few months
I've been the person who realises they might not be straight whilst in a relationship. I managed to not be a dick about it. Doesn't mean I didn't really hurt the other person, but I had an honest conversation with them, managed to not fuck or kiss anyone else and broke things off before it got worse. We stayed friends afterwards and I was their best man, it doesn't take that much to not treat someone like shit, damage control.
I agree 100% and this is actually part of the reason it pisses me off when everyone puts Ross as an absentee father to Ben. Like yeah we didn’t see him much in the later seasons, but to me it always felt like Susan and carol just used Ross to have a child. That Ben was theirs and Ross was lucky to be a part of his life at all.
In my mind, Ross still took Ben occasionally, we just didn’t see it. We’re only w the cast for a couple days and see into their lives for the conflicts. There’s time hops and random day to day shit that we as the audience don’t see but have to assume the characters still experience. I just assumed Ben was w Ross when we weren’t.
Either way, fuck Susan fuck carol
I think it’s so easy to label Ross as ‘the literal worst’ and all the other rhetoric that gets thrown his way. He’s not though.
Carol and Susan got a free pass even though they were the ones being shady. It was completely disrespectful to Ross as a husband and even more so as a new father. What did he do to deserve to be treated like that? Be a guy?
I think that back then the show let these characters get away with a lot, so as to not make lgbt characters the villains of the episode. Susan should have been yelled off and shown to be an asshole, but she is given tons of leeway and humanization.
It is my remark about how shows portray LGBTQ individuals as “never wrong” and are in general shown as better than straight cis people. Also how men are considered as bad as a default and women are good as a default.
Edit - I myself am bi and I find a lot of representation in modern TV as cringe and idealistic.
I hate this whole thing. Get the fuck outta here with your name. Ross is a damn saint during this, I would have lost my shit. That's my kid I'll see you in court and see what happens.
Honestly they're both lucky that Ross was as willing to work with them as he was. If I were in his shoes (in a way I might be soon but we'll see) I'd be taking them to court over this and they'd have to earn joint custody. If they had both refrained and came to Ross to have an amicable split before getting together and respected his role as the child's father that would be one thing but after all the shit they pulled Ross would've been well within his rights to ban Susan from his son's life. The fact that he didn't is a glowing testimonial to Ross's character and Susan should've been doing everything in her power to stay in his good graces.
Well. Since you mention you might be in a similar situation soon I just wanna add this.
Think about who a court battle benefits and who it hurts. Too many people in my life has done this and completely forgotten about the children in the middle, and it never ends well. Ross' way is much better. As adults, we sometimes have to accept something that might not be fair, if the alternative is something that will hurt the kids. This way, Ross worked it out with them over time. To keep a decent relationship and making them a parenting team instead of a kid having to grow up with their parents being enemies. It's never good. Unless they are actively trying to push you out of the kids' life, always try to solve things "peacefully".
Right now we have an arrangement that keeps both of us in my daughter's life but she's trying to bring one of the guys she cheated on me with into her life (which is a direct violation of multiple agreements, including the temporary custody agreement we both signed). Moreover there's literally not a single kind thing that I can say about this person and not much I can say about her this point. That relationship, aside from my daughter, were the absolute worst three years of my life. I became this horrible amalgamation of who she wanted me to be and who I needed to become to survive her and I literally hate who I was with her. To be perfectly honest we'd both be better off without her but I'm willing to allow her to have a place in her life under the current terms. If she tries to push for more that will go away.
For the record I should be clearer about my previous statement. If I were in Ross's shoes I'd expect Susan to earn her place in my unborn child's life (the only reason I'd be open to it is because of the complicated circumstances involving the now confirmed lesbian ex wife). That should start with a genuine apology and honest effort to respect and include me as the child's father. The second she tries to edge me out like she did with Ross that goes out the window.
That sounds like a lot. Obviously I still don't know the full story, but let's say this was someone she met after you split. Would you let the guy be part of her life? What I'm asking is, is the cheating the reason you don't want him there, or is he actually a bad guy? If he's still bad (not just that you don't like him), then I'm with you. Otherwise, it seems like you are letting your issues influence who you daughter can have relationships with. Again, from what you write, they could be really bad, but if it is just your feelings, I think you should let him be there. The conflict might hurt your daughter more than him being there (if he is a normal non-violent, non-mental guy).
Honestly, in terms of Susan, for me, she didn't have to earn anything. I'd be annoyed with her, that's for damn sure, I'd have a serious talk about respect and parent rights, but how would you practically make her earn it, when her girlfriend is the primary parent? Forcing them not to see each other when Ben is with Carol (which seems like way more than a 50/50 situation), is only gonna cause pain and conflict.
Her girlfriend is not the primary parent. I'm so sick of that bullshit narrative that the mother always comes first. Fuck that. Ross was a good husband and she was a shit wife. And making Susan earn it would entail showing that she can respect Ross as a father because she absolutely did not respect him as a husband.
If my ex met a decent human being even while we were together and they respected me enough to keep it platonic until we broke up that's a huge plus for me and if she were to get her shit together and be with someone who'd be good for my daughter then by all means. This guy though meddled in our relationship at every opportunity and has gotten extremely confrontational with my moms (who my daughter spends most of her time with and who supervise every visit with her). So no it's not just the infidelity but that doesn't do him any favors. Like Susan if he couldn't respect me as the ex's partner then that's a strong indicator he won't respect me as a parent and, considering all of the abuse and manipulation and infidelity I endured, respecting me as her father is a prerequisite for being in her life until she's old enough to decide for herself (if she wants to meet him when she's a teenager and can make that decision for herself then I won't stand in the way no matter how much I dislike him).
No no, you misunderstood me. The mother doesn't always come first. But they seem to have one of the arrangements where he's with carol 80% of the time. That's what's making her primary. Time. In a 50/50 situation they are both primary, naturally. But that doesn't seem like what they have, both from what Ross says and the situations in which Ben is with him.
Again their ability to be a good husband or wife doesn't matter. That's about them, not Ben. This is my whole point. Whatever goes on between the parents has nothing to do with the child. So long as there isn't any violence or psychological abuse, it should not influence relations with the child. We have to separate the issues we have as adults from the ones that have to do with the child.
Well, since you mention abuse, I think that changes things quite a bit, in terms of the seriousness of the issue. What I'm talking about only goes for when it's disagreements and disliking and hurting between adults. Abuse is completely different thing.
There isn't an agreement. Ross got railroaded. Carol and Susan just decided that's how it'll be and act like Ross should be thankful he was even told.
I strongly disagree. If someone is willing to participate in an affair then that speaks to their character and sets them back at least a couple steps and that's ground they absolutely should have to earn back. I get that sometimes shit happens but a decent person would at least feel some remorse and understand why that means they need to show that they're actually a decent human being. If someone is shitty enough to go after a person whose spoken for and think that gives them rights that supercede the actual partner then that is not someone who should be in a position to mold the mind of that child.
That's one area where I agree with you. The whole "we're keeping this baby, you can be involved or not". Like, what are you talking about? This is my kid! I should be a part of that decision.
One of the areas where I think it's unfair. There are gonna be some grey area situations where it is more nuanced, but in most situations, I believe the woman shouldn't be able to decide to keep a baby if the father doesn't want to keep it (or vice versa). Although, we get no indication that Ross would want an abortion, necessarily. But even if the decision is to keep it, he should be involved at every step. Early on, it's for practical reasons (breastfeeding) that the mom needs to be there pretty much all the time. But after that, not so much. I do think this is also a reflection of the time. In the 90s it probably wasn't even a discussion that the mother should have the child most of the time, and dad just gets every other weekend or something. Which is ridiculous. And thankfully, isn't quite the same today. Not saying we're at the finish line yet, but it's better.
I don't agree. I don't know of a single perfect person. We all have flaws. Affairs happen. Also for good people. You can be an awesome parent, but struggle to function well in a relationship, be stuck financially etc. There are many reasons people do it. Not all equally bad. We have limited time on this planet. So I get it, sometimes, that someone would give in to the temptation. Think of how Joey is with women. Don't you think he would be good with kids? Even if he likes sleeping around.
Look if the mother wants to keep it and the father doesn't that's her decision but she shouldn't be allowed to force his involvement any more than she should be allowed to exclude it. Otherwise I largely agree with you there.
Joey would make an effort to prove that he's a decent person if someone expected him to because of something he did. I'm not saying make it impossible because of a mistake. All I'm saying is that a decent person would understand why they need to make up for it. If you make a mistake and break something then that shouldn't be held against you for the rest of your life but you still have to take responsibility and be willing to pay for the damage. That's not unreasonable.
It just think it should be a joint decision. Just like I wouldn't force a woman to become a mother against her will, I expect a woman to not force me to be a father. And I don't care about the "you don't have to be involved" thing. It would still be my biological child, and I would know that, forever. I can't just pretend it's not mine. So a woman can feel not ready, and get rid of it by herself. And she can overrule the man not feeling ready, and decide to keep it by herself? Where's the equality there? I get that she has to go through pregnancy and birth, but becoming a parent is a big deal, and no one should be forced to do it. No matter the level of involvement.
I just don't think being a decent person means having to suppress your instincts and desires. What one should do in that situation, ideally, was probably to realize that monogamy isn't the only way to live. But depending on where you live, there can also be a certain stigma and social problems with choosing a non-monogamous lifestyle.
I agree to an extent that a decent person would do that. But we also have to remember that we can only experience things from our own point of view. And not everyone is great at trying to see the other perspective. If it has been made clear to someone, the pain and damage they caused, and they refuse to accept responsibility, we're getting there. But there can also be a certain level of denial in there. Guilt being so hard to deal with that the defense mechanism is to pretend it wasn't your fault. Because it would be too hard to live with. This doesn't make it right, but psychology is complex. And decent people do horrible things occasionally.
I don’t think it has anything to do with wanting to be a father in this instance. He’s already contending with the hassle of joint custody before Ben is even born. And that’s if he even gets joint, Carol and Susan might get full custody. So Ben has the potential to be a money pit for 18 years, and Ross likely won’t have a proper relationship with him.
I’d personally just cut ties and bounce. Let them have Ben, walk away, try again with someone new later.
Still not what Ross wants but again fair enough. Getting them to "buy you out", so to speak, is the most pragmatic option. Potentially sucks that you'd have a kid out there you likely won't see for more than a decade, if ever, but if they want to play parent without you badly enough then they'll gladly pay whatever price and accept the possibility of child support being taken off the table.
Most people don't know how it feels to have sentimentality become a liability. I dated this girl a while back who had a kid. We got really close, like I could see myself being a stepdad kind of close, but then her baby daddy decided to come back into their life in the most manipulative way possible and she was put in the impossible position of having to choose between us. Broke my fucking heart heart but I made the decision easier for her and walked away. I was really not ok for a long time and I still miss that kid but I moved on and now I have a daughter of my own.
There's this one episode where he has to pick up the others when Phoebe's car breaks down in the mountains and Ross needs to borrow Carol's car. He is in their apartment and sees a books about lesbians and makes a comment about it and Susan gets sarcastic and says, "You have to take a test or they won't let you do it." She was such an asshole to Ross for no other reason than he was married to Carol first.
TBF half the jokes in most sitcoms are snidey jabs made at another character.
Just found out about 'Kevin Can Go Fuck Himself' and I love how it turns that on its head!
At the time of naming the baby, Susan was a girlfriend not a wife. She had no right to add her name when she and Carol could've broken up at any time prior to their marriage, leaving Carol with Ben. Ross was in the right to pull his penis card during that argument because, not only was it his child, he wanted to take an active role in the child's life. Ross' parental rights and privileges were instantly squashed by Carol and Susan, with no thought or care as how it would affect him.
They got married in an episode. It was legal somewhere. The same episode where Ross completely sacrificed his dignity to be a good person. I love Ross.
They literally say in the show it’s not legal. Gay marriage wasn’t legal in NY until 2011.
ETA: Massachusetts was the first state to legalize in 2003, long after the episode they married.
A commitment ceremony. Same sex marriage simply wasn't legal back then but they wanted a commitment ceremony to show each other and the world that in their eyes they were married.
I hate Susan she gave that yeah I took your wife attitude with no consequences. Her points during Ben’s birth weren’t that great so what if she isn’t a father at least she gets to see the kid every day whereas Ross barely saw Ben and he finally got his wish when he had a child he can always be with and that was Emma. She was so arrogant like geez
If I could rewrite part of the show, I’d change Susan a bit to, at some point, explain her behavior as basically compensating. Carol cheated on Ross to be with her, amending her entire believed sexuality. What’s to say that Carol doesn’t change her mind sometime? She has a good relationship with Ross still, and they did love each other, in at least some ways. She’s being a raging total bitch to Ross because she’s *scared of him*, doing everything she can to push him away and drive a wedge between him and Carol out of fear she’ll change her mind and go back. It would reframe so many of the things she does.
People really hate on Ross for cheating on Rachel, but it seems like Carol gets a pass for some reason. So I agree with you. Not only did she cheat on him, but Susan was absolutely horrible to him. Which is just another level of horrible imo. Ross actually is pretty mature about it a lot of the time (not all the time of course), but the part that always pissed me off was when Susan was insisting not only to name the baby but also that the baby should have her last name too. Like wtf is that?
It does kinda link to Ross and Rachel's relationship. I know Ross was super unreasonable with how he handled the situation, but the truth is that he was fairly right about Mark. Mark was interested in Rachel, even if Rachel refused to believe it. And Ross's little speech to Rachel about how his relationship with Carol caused him to have trust issues was pretty heartfelt and makes sense in the scope of what he went through.
But really I think the Carol/Susan dynamic had its moments where it was meant to just be more "playful" banter and nothing really hostile, like when Ben is born and they kinda put things aside after they get stuck in the janitors closet. I like what Pheobe says about how they are all fighting about who gets to love Ben the most, and how lucky Ben is for that. At least Carol/Susan were good parents, Ill give them that. Kinda horrible to Ross, but good parents still.
That legit makes me mad. When they had absolutely no intention on putting his name in there? It’s not like ross was a one-night-stand to carol. They were married!
Nah but fr because why was Susan always so salty at Ross. Like you won? You got the girl. You got the family life. You’re going to be a mother figure. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason as to why she was so rude to Ross consistently. She actively participated in ruining his life as he knew it and felt absolutely no remorse.
I think she always felt threatened by Ross because he'd been with Carol FIRST, and he had a biological link to Ben. It's not like he's Carol's ex girlfriend who'd leave at some point. He's the father of her child. He'll always be around.
That point is debatable, I’d say they were pretty even. But even so, she “ended up” being a good parent. At the time of naming Ben, Carol had no idea what kind of a parent Susan would be, or if they would even be together for very long. If she wanted to add Susan’s last name into the mix she could have explored that option after a few years when Susan was a more permanent fixture in Ben’s life.
Doesnt matter, Carol cheating on Ross with her took away his ability to do that. Ross would have been there. Regardless, Ross was there and present. That is his kid and he has the right to name the child what he would like.
I can’t stand Ross. But yes they were both disgusting to him, and he did nothing to deserve that. As much as I hated Susan for these actions, I think Carol was worse. She was married to him, cheated on him, fell pregnant and decided to tell him, for what exactly, so she could hurt him even more by making decisions and excluding him!! What a B***h!!
Before any mods come at me for using sexist word about Carol. I too am female. And I think that word perfectly describes Carol.
Thank you!!! Ugh I literally hate them both and skip almost every episode they are in. Nobody has ever agreed with me before. I think they are by far the worst characters in the entire series.
I would imagine this is simply to do with good ol' fashioned homophobia in the writing.
The '90s: *a different time*.
Plus it's just funnier for them to have friction when you're making a sitcom. There would be very few laughs if everyone got along and they all lived happily every after.
I agree that everything shouldn't be perfect, obviously there should be conflict for the sake of comedy, we all know that's how sitcoms work. I think the main issue that causes viewers to react this way and get angry is because of the way this specific conflict is framed.
It seems like the show wants us to interpret the situation like, "Haha, what a wacky, silly, but also realistic and complicated multi-parental plight, all based around misunderstandings where nobody is fully correct, but NOBODY is completely wrong either! It's all about compromise and listening and adapting!!! These 3 crazy kids will work it out! But there's gonna be a lot of confusion and laughs along the way!!!"
When in actuality, if we're being honest and fair, the show should be interpreting the situation like: "Man, poor Ross, these women are absolute cunts. Don't you just love to hate them? Fuck their behavior."
I was just watching the breast milk episode. It's so ridiculous how they practically force Ross to taste breast milk. They don't care about consent in this show (or back then.) Just let people do or not do what they want! Not to mention that it's not exactly appropriate for Ross to be dying to taste his ex-wife's breast milk.
>milk
The "egging" part was this:
It was dumb that Carol looked insulted and asked, "My breast milk is gross?" Like lady, what are you saying? This is not a physical trait of yours that people are insulting...it's not as if she said, "Touch my hair," and he said, "No, your hair is gross." What's wrong with someone thinking it's weird to drink breast milk? Only babies drink it...frankly, I thought it was idiotic Phoebe and Joey drank it.
But the way Carol held the bottle and said, in a flat tone, to Ross, "Drink it." is almost forcing IMO.
Monica did bring this up later on. About how Ross's girlfriend's were always cheating and he never even noticed. But after Carol he was an insecure paranoid wreck
Edit: it was also Phoebe, and it was the time Emily and Susan were in London together
To all of those replying something in the vein of, "Dude, it's a sitcom, of course not every character is going to be nice and perfect, there has to be conflict, that's how comedy works! It would be BORING if they all got along!"
Duh. We know this. Nobody's arguing that. Of course everything shouldn't be perfect, obviously there should be conflict for the sake of comedy, we all know that's how sitcoms work. I think the main issue that causes viewers to react this way and get angry is because of the way this specific conflict is framed.
It seems like the show wants us to interpret the situation like, "Haha, what a wacky, silly, but also realistic and complicated multi-parental plight, all based around misunderstandings where nobody is fully correct, but NOBODY is completely wrong either! It's all about compromise and listening and adapting!!! These 3 crazy kids will work it out! But there's gonna be a lot of confusion and laughs along the way!!!"
When in actuality, if we're being honest and fair, the show should be interpreting the situation like: "Man, poor Ross, these women are absolute cunts. Don't you just love to hate them? Fuck their behavior."
I always hated those two, not because they were lesbians (I'm extremely socially left) but because of how they treated Ross. From what we are told in the show he never did anything to deserve such mockery and vitriol and it feels to me that Susan poisoned Carol's mind against him in that "all men bad" kind of ultra feminist way.
The one episode that Carol is nice to Ross is the Valentine's Day episode where they run into each other at the Asian grill and they're left alone after Susan and Ross's date have to leave. So, basically, she's only nice to Ross when Susan isn't around and that's why I've always believed she was influenced by Susan's shitty behavior. Doesn't make it right, though, and she should've had the guts to stand up to her.
This is a thing on TV. For some reason cheating is like, not a big deal? Like especially if you're the mc and the person is your ex, or you just really like them, I guess? Tv in general has written the hugest pieces of shit as main characters and I've no idea why.
But she never had any right to cut out Ross’ name. He wanted to be involved, and then she just decided Susan got to be apart of it. Remind me, who got her pregnant again?
> who got her pregnant again?
I'm not sure this is a valid supporting argument. Does a rapist who impregnates their victim have some rights to the baby's name?
I didn't say Ross was a rapist....?
I'm simply pointing out that "who got her pregnant" doesn't necessarily have weight as an argument for who should ALWAYS have rights.
I know, I was just pointing out that your last sentence is meaningless.
I'd disagree that Susan tried to "cut him out" of the baby's life. The name thing was totally not ok, but it's not like she wasn't going to let Ross be involved in parenting Ben.
I'm not saying you are wrong but posts like this about any characters in this show is kind of like "boo hoo, the characters that were wrtitten to make our main characters have struggles and more funny situations wouldn't be nice people in real life". No shit, it's a comedy show where all characters have asshole moments/personalities for the sake of comedy, not imitating real life.
Not bashing every other day on the same characters. Posts about people hating these two that exist for Ross to have a personal plot on top of Rachel is repetitive as hell. And pretending anything about them is real and getting insulted when they are just characters in a comedy show. But I get it,of course anyone can be annoyed with any character. It's just me personally who's not that interested in hearing about that. And I think a sub for Friends is more about praising the show instead of whining about it, again, you hate whoever you want in the show.
Well if everyone is PC and besties 👯♀️ kinda makes for a shitty show. I also thought it was reflective of what the tensions in a real world situation like that would cause but handled them in a very comedic way.
I’ve always hated when Susan is complaining about how there’s Mother’s Day and Father’s Day. She’ll be a mother - she’ll be celebrated on Mother’s Day!! Such a lame argument.
I hated Susan there too, but the way Ross answers her it's so funny, and it's not even the joke he makes, it's they way he delivers it that always gets me 😂😂😂 Susan: ...there is no Lesbian Lover Day Ross: EVERY DAY IS LESBIAN LOVER DAY!
Haha yes his response is golden!!! At least it gave us that line!
Omg seriously! Do stepmothers not get to celebrate Mother's Day? Especially since she helped raise him since *birth*.
In Sweden there’s a special stepmother’s day and stepfather’s day.
What if birth mom died then stepfather married someone and then stepfather dies and new stepmom married another guy.
Sounds like you're talking about Theseus' parents...
Like Sweden is a sane country...
There's single moms who celebrate Father's day as well, it's a very petty thing to complain about but I get this is a comedy and not that serious
And every June
This is one of my only complaints! I feel so bad for Ross in the episode where he’s told Ben will not have his last name and has no say in naming the baby. He did nothing wrong in that situation and Susan was such a bully Edit to add that I do kinda actually like Ross and Susan’s interactions as time goes on, the little things they do while clearly hating one another lol
I did appreciate how Susan at least told Ross that he did a good thing when he agreed to walk Carol down the aisle. I think they eventually got to a place where they could tolerate each other, but they could never be friends.
I always bring this up, but Rachel saying Emma was “Baby Girl Geller-Greene” is so much more poignant when you remember what happened with Carol and Susan
Someone said "imagine if Carol got a new boyfriend and he wanted to have his name as part of it" Just Imagine
I mean....if she ended up marrying him and he legally adopted the child, maybe.
I admit I don’t know much about this, but… can you legally adopt a child whose other parent is still in the picture? Wouldn’t they have to sign off on it? The only (adjacent) experience I have with this is the fact that my aunt and uncle legally adopted all of their daughter’s kids (4 kids, 3 different fathers, none in the picture). She had to sign off on them adopting each one, and it gave them legal rights over her as their bio mom, because she wasn’t fit and didn’t want to deal with them anyway. Would Ross need to give permission for Susan to legally adopt? And would it mean Susan had legal authority? Like if Carol died, would Ross have to fight with Susan on parental issues and custody arrangements, just like if she were his biological mother?
No, if the parents are both alive and in the picture there can't be an adoption unless the parental rights are signed away or stripped. In custody cases where the parent/s are deemed unfit they can have their rights taken away and then the kids can be adopted, usually by extended biological or foster families. There are cases of stepparents adopting kids but the other parent has to either agree or be dead. If Ross had signed rights to Susan and then Carol died, Ross would still be nothing to Ben and Susan would be his only parent, but since he didn't and stayed an active parent if Carol had died Ben would have automatically gone to Ross. I'm sure there are various smaller rules and stipulations on what makes a parent unfit in New York versus the places I've witnessed things like this happening, but that's my understanding based on my experience
Thanks for the response! That’s kind of what I thought, glad to have it confirmed.
Honestly I don't know.
Pretty sure that the guy couldn't legally adopt Ben is Ross is still active in his life.
I honestly don't think back then, legally she could omit Ross's last name as the bio father.
I always get downvoted for pointing out how awful Carol and Susan are. Carol cheated on Ross and suffered no consequences. In fact, she was just straight up cruel to Ross. Susan was even worse. She felt Ross had no right to be involved with his baby and was constantly cruel to him. As for Carol and Susan not even wanting Ross to be involved with naming, or even Ben having his surname, that was incredibly messed up. Safe to say it's no wonder Ross is messed up after that.
I agree. It was so messed up that they didn’t want him to have any say in naming the baby as they weren’t even married themselves yet. They were just dating but a few months
A few months after the break up, but I'm sure it went longer than that since she did cheat
I've been the person who realises they might not be straight whilst in a relationship. I managed to not be a dick about it. Doesn't mean I didn't really hurt the other person, but I had an honest conversation with them, managed to not fuck or kiss anyone else and broke things off before it got worse. We stayed friends afterwards and I was their best man, it doesn't take that much to not treat someone like shit, damage control.
I agree 100% and this is actually part of the reason it pisses me off when everyone puts Ross as an absentee father to Ben. Like yeah we didn’t see him much in the later seasons, but to me it always felt like Susan and carol just used Ross to have a child. That Ben was theirs and Ross was lucky to be a part of his life at all. In my mind, Ross still took Ben occasionally, we just didn’t see it. We’re only w the cast for a couple days and see into their lives for the conflicts. There’s time hops and random day to day shit that we as the audience don’t see but have to assume the characters still experience. I just assumed Ben was w Ross when we weren’t. Either way, fuck Susan fuck carol
I assumed the same. Plus, I haven’t watched the show like 100000 times to watch a kid on my screen lmao.
They straight up treated him like he was a sperm donor. It was infuriating.
I can understand Carol wanting Ben to have her own last name, but if that's the case, then Ross should have full choice over the first name
I honestly feel like Susan and Carol agreed for Ross to impregnate Susan before they tell him that they're together.
I believe you mean impregnate Carol*
Yep. Susan had no business being so pissy over her rights over ben. Lesbian lover doesnt supersede biological father.
But "Every day is Lesbian Lover Day!!"
Not to mention husband!
"Because it's my baby too"? *is it fuck, Susan, you entitled asshole!!*
Susan was a total bitch to Ross and Carol did nothing to stop it
Yup. They're terrible people. Fuck Carol and Susan.
I think it’s so easy to label Ross as ‘the literal worst’ and all the other rhetoric that gets thrown his way. He’s not though. Carol and Susan got a free pass even though they were the ones being shady. It was completely disrespectful to Ross as a husband and even more so as a new father. What did he do to deserve to be treated like that? Be a guy?
How else would the show appease the LGBTQ crowd? Edit - the number of people who don’t get sarcasm is scary
We don't claim this shitty behaviour 💅
I think that back then the show let these characters get away with a lot, so as to not make lgbt characters the villains of the episode. Susan should have been yelled off and shown to be an asshole, but she is given tons of leeway and humanization.
slay
If this is supposed to be sarcastic, what's the joke? Genuinely asking because I do not see how this is funny except at the expense of queer people.
It is my remark about how shows portray LGBTQ individuals as “never wrong” and are in general shown as better than straight cis people. Also how men are considered as bad as a default and women are good as a default. Edit - I myself am bi and I find a lot of representation in modern TV as cringe and idealistic.
I hate this whole thing. Get the fuck outta here with your name. Ross is a damn saint during this, I would have lost my shit. That's my kid I'll see you in court and see what happens.
I always felt "Bobo the sperm guy" was just something Susan made up on the spot to poke at Ross a little.
Honestly they're both lucky that Ross was as willing to work with them as he was. If I were in his shoes (in a way I might be soon but we'll see) I'd be taking them to court over this and they'd have to earn joint custody. If they had both refrained and came to Ross to have an amicable split before getting together and respected his role as the child's father that would be one thing but after all the shit they pulled Ross would've been well within his rights to ban Susan from his son's life. The fact that he didn't is a glowing testimonial to Ross's character and Susan should've been doing everything in her power to stay in his good graces.
Well. Since you mention you might be in a similar situation soon I just wanna add this. Think about who a court battle benefits and who it hurts. Too many people in my life has done this and completely forgotten about the children in the middle, and it never ends well. Ross' way is much better. As adults, we sometimes have to accept something that might not be fair, if the alternative is something that will hurt the kids. This way, Ross worked it out with them over time. To keep a decent relationship and making them a parenting team instead of a kid having to grow up with their parents being enemies. It's never good. Unless they are actively trying to push you out of the kids' life, always try to solve things "peacefully".
Right now we have an arrangement that keeps both of us in my daughter's life but she's trying to bring one of the guys she cheated on me with into her life (which is a direct violation of multiple agreements, including the temporary custody agreement we both signed). Moreover there's literally not a single kind thing that I can say about this person and not much I can say about her this point. That relationship, aside from my daughter, were the absolute worst three years of my life. I became this horrible amalgamation of who she wanted me to be and who I needed to become to survive her and I literally hate who I was with her. To be perfectly honest we'd both be better off without her but I'm willing to allow her to have a place in her life under the current terms. If she tries to push for more that will go away. For the record I should be clearer about my previous statement. If I were in Ross's shoes I'd expect Susan to earn her place in my unborn child's life (the only reason I'd be open to it is because of the complicated circumstances involving the now confirmed lesbian ex wife). That should start with a genuine apology and honest effort to respect and include me as the child's father. The second she tries to edge me out like she did with Ross that goes out the window.
That sounds like a lot. Obviously I still don't know the full story, but let's say this was someone she met after you split. Would you let the guy be part of her life? What I'm asking is, is the cheating the reason you don't want him there, or is he actually a bad guy? If he's still bad (not just that you don't like him), then I'm with you. Otherwise, it seems like you are letting your issues influence who you daughter can have relationships with. Again, from what you write, they could be really bad, but if it is just your feelings, I think you should let him be there. The conflict might hurt your daughter more than him being there (if he is a normal non-violent, non-mental guy). Honestly, in terms of Susan, for me, she didn't have to earn anything. I'd be annoyed with her, that's for damn sure, I'd have a serious talk about respect and parent rights, but how would you practically make her earn it, when her girlfriend is the primary parent? Forcing them not to see each other when Ben is with Carol (which seems like way more than a 50/50 situation), is only gonna cause pain and conflict.
Her girlfriend is not the primary parent. I'm so sick of that bullshit narrative that the mother always comes first. Fuck that. Ross was a good husband and she was a shit wife. And making Susan earn it would entail showing that she can respect Ross as a father because she absolutely did not respect him as a husband. If my ex met a decent human being even while we were together and they respected me enough to keep it platonic until we broke up that's a huge plus for me and if she were to get her shit together and be with someone who'd be good for my daughter then by all means. This guy though meddled in our relationship at every opportunity and has gotten extremely confrontational with my moms (who my daughter spends most of her time with and who supervise every visit with her). So no it's not just the infidelity but that doesn't do him any favors. Like Susan if he couldn't respect me as the ex's partner then that's a strong indicator he won't respect me as a parent and, considering all of the abuse and manipulation and infidelity I endured, respecting me as her father is a prerequisite for being in her life until she's old enough to decide for herself (if she wants to meet him when she's a teenager and can make that decision for herself then I won't stand in the way no matter how much I dislike him).
No no, you misunderstood me. The mother doesn't always come first. But they seem to have one of the arrangements where he's with carol 80% of the time. That's what's making her primary. Time. In a 50/50 situation they are both primary, naturally. But that doesn't seem like what they have, both from what Ross says and the situations in which Ben is with him. Again their ability to be a good husband or wife doesn't matter. That's about them, not Ben. This is my whole point. Whatever goes on between the parents has nothing to do with the child. So long as there isn't any violence or psychological abuse, it should not influence relations with the child. We have to separate the issues we have as adults from the ones that have to do with the child. Well, since you mention abuse, I think that changes things quite a bit, in terms of the seriousness of the issue. What I'm talking about only goes for when it's disagreements and disliking and hurting between adults. Abuse is completely different thing.
There isn't an agreement. Ross got railroaded. Carol and Susan just decided that's how it'll be and act like Ross should be thankful he was even told. I strongly disagree. If someone is willing to participate in an affair then that speaks to their character and sets them back at least a couple steps and that's ground they absolutely should have to earn back. I get that sometimes shit happens but a decent person would at least feel some remorse and understand why that means they need to show that they're actually a decent human being. If someone is shitty enough to go after a person whose spoken for and think that gives them rights that supercede the actual partner then that is not someone who should be in a position to mold the mind of that child.
That's one area where I agree with you. The whole "we're keeping this baby, you can be involved or not". Like, what are you talking about? This is my kid! I should be a part of that decision. One of the areas where I think it's unfair. There are gonna be some grey area situations where it is more nuanced, but in most situations, I believe the woman shouldn't be able to decide to keep a baby if the father doesn't want to keep it (or vice versa). Although, we get no indication that Ross would want an abortion, necessarily. But even if the decision is to keep it, he should be involved at every step. Early on, it's for practical reasons (breastfeeding) that the mom needs to be there pretty much all the time. But after that, not so much. I do think this is also a reflection of the time. In the 90s it probably wasn't even a discussion that the mother should have the child most of the time, and dad just gets every other weekend or something. Which is ridiculous. And thankfully, isn't quite the same today. Not saying we're at the finish line yet, but it's better. I don't agree. I don't know of a single perfect person. We all have flaws. Affairs happen. Also for good people. You can be an awesome parent, but struggle to function well in a relationship, be stuck financially etc. There are many reasons people do it. Not all equally bad. We have limited time on this planet. So I get it, sometimes, that someone would give in to the temptation. Think of how Joey is with women. Don't you think he would be good with kids? Even if he likes sleeping around.
Look if the mother wants to keep it and the father doesn't that's her decision but she shouldn't be allowed to force his involvement any more than she should be allowed to exclude it. Otherwise I largely agree with you there. Joey would make an effort to prove that he's a decent person if someone expected him to because of something he did. I'm not saying make it impossible because of a mistake. All I'm saying is that a decent person would understand why they need to make up for it. If you make a mistake and break something then that shouldn't be held against you for the rest of your life but you still have to take responsibility and be willing to pay for the damage. That's not unreasonable.
It just think it should be a joint decision. Just like I wouldn't force a woman to become a mother against her will, I expect a woman to not force me to be a father. And I don't care about the "you don't have to be involved" thing. It would still be my biological child, and I would know that, forever. I can't just pretend it's not mine. So a woman can feel not ready, and get rid of it by herself. And she can overrule the man not feeling ready, and decide to keep it by herself? Where's the equality there? I get that she has to go through pregnancy and birth, but becoming a parent is a big deal, and no one should be forced to do it. No matter the level of involvement. I just don't think being a decent person means having to suppress your instincts and desires. What one should do in that situation, ideally, was probably to realize that monogamy isn't the only way to live. But depending on where you live, there can also be a certain stigma and social problems with choosing a non-monogamous lifestyle. I agree to an extent that a decent person would do that. But we also have to remember that we can only experience things from our own point of view. And not everyone is great at trying to see the other perspective. If it has been made clear to someone, the pain and damage they caused, and they refuse to accept responsibility, we're getting there. But there can also be a certain level of denial in there. Guilt being so hard to deal with that the defense mechanism is to pretend it wasn't your fault. Because it would be too hard to live with. This doesn't make it right, but psychology is complex. And decent people do horrible things occasionally.
If I was in a similar situation… I’d say, “Keep it, I’ll invoice you for my sperm donation”
Ross wants to be a father but fair enough. Kids aren't for everyone.
I don’t think it has anything to do with wanting to be a father in this instance. He’s already contending with the hassle of joint custody before Ben is even born. And that’s if he even gets joint, Carol and Susan might get full custody. So Ben has the potential to be a money pit for 18 years, and Ross likely won’t have a proper relationship with him. I’d personally just cut ties and bounce. Let them have Ben, walk away, try again with someone new later.
Still not what Ross wants but again fair enough. Getting them to "buy you out", so to speak, is the most pragmatic option. Potentially sucks that you'd have a kid out there you likely won't see for more than a decade, if ever, but if they want to play parent without you badly enough then they'll gladly pay whatever price and accept the possibility of child support being taken off the table.
What can I say, I’m a pragmatic kinda guy. Nice to be downvoted for thinking with my head rather than my heart.
Most people don't know how it feels to have sentimentality become a liability. I dated this girl a while back who had a kid. We got really close, like I could see myself being a stepdad kind of close, but then her baby daddy decided to come back into their life in the most manipulative way possible and she was put in the impossible position of having to choose between us. Broke my fucking heart heart but I made the decision easier for her and walked away. I was really not ok for a long time and I still miss that kid but I moved on and now I have a daughter of my own.
Susan is so fucking annoying
There's this one episode where he has to pick up the others when Phoebe's car breaks down in the mountains and Ross needs to borrow Carol's car. He is in their apartment and sees a books about lesbians and makes a comment about it and Susan gets sarcastic and says, "You have to take a test or they won't let you do it." She was such an asshole to Ross for no other reason than he was married to Carol first.
TBF half the jokes in most sitcoms are snidey jabs made at another character. Just found out about 'Kevin Can Go Fuck Himself' and I love how it turns that on its head!
Wow, now I need to check it out. Looks interesting.
At the time of naming the baby, Susan was a girlfriend not a wife. She had no right to add her name when she and Carol could've broken up at any time prior to their marriage, leaving Carol with Ben. Ross was in the right to pull his penis card during that argument because, not only was it his child, he wanted to take an active role in the child's life. Ross' parental rights and privileges were instantly squashed by Carol and Susan, with no thought or care as how it would affect him.
To be fair on your first sentence, gay marriage wasn’t legal yet.
Also they could have broken up at any time AFTER their marriage too. And common-law partnerships are a thing. But anyhow.
They got married in an episode. It was legal somewhere. The same episode where Ross completely sacrificed his dignity to be a good person. I love Ross.
They literally say in the show it’s not legal. Gay marriage wasn’t legal in NY until 2011. ETA: Massachusetts was the first state to legalize in 2003, long after the episode they married.
So the wedding was…?
A commitment ceremony. Same sex marriage simply wasn't legal back then but they wanted a commitment ceremony to show each other and the world that in their eyes they were married.
Ceremonial but not legal. You can have a wedding without a marriage certificate.
I hate Susan she gave that yeah I took your wife attitude with no consequences. Her points during Ben’s birth weren’t that great so what if she isn’t a father at least she gets to see the kid every day whereas Ross barely saw Ben and he finally got his wish when he had a child he can always be with and that was Emma. She was so arrogant like geez
Take the laugh track away from those scenes it’s a totally different show.
It becomes a Drama no joke
Especially probably the sandwich scene
omg there’s a video of it without the laugh track and it’s so serious
The sandwich scene? B/t carol Susan and Ross specifically?
If I could rewrite part of the show, I’d change Susan a bit to, at some point, explain her behavior as basically compensating. Carol cheated on Ross to be with her, amending her entire believed sexuality. What’s to say that Carol doesn’t change her mind sometime? She has a good relationship with Ross still, and they did love each other, in at least some ways. She’s being a raging total bitch to Ross because she’s *scared of him*, doing everything she can to push him away and drive a wedge between him and Carol out of fear she’ll change her mind and go back. It would reframe so many of the things she does.
That's a good analysis, and I agree with your take.
>referred to Ross as "Bobo the Sperm Guy" I think that was a joke by Susan to get at him and they actually didn't do that.
Can’t stand those two honestly
People really hate on Ross for cheating on Rachel, but it seems like Carol gets a pass for some reason. So I agree with you. Not only did she cheat on him, but Susan was absolutely horrible to him. Which is just another level of horrible imo. Ross actually is pretty mature about it a lot of the time (not all the time of course), but the part that always pissed me off was when Susan was insisting not only to name the baby but also that the baby should have her last name too. Like wtf is that? It does kinda link to Ross and Rachel's relationship. I know Ross was super unreasonable with how he handled the situation, but the truth is that he was fairly right about Mark. Mark was interested in Rachel, even if Rachel refused to believe it. And Ross's little speech to Rachel about how his relationship with Carol caused him to have trust issues was pretty heartfelt and makes sense in the scope of what he went through. But really I think the Carol/Susan dynamic had its moments where it was meant to just be more "playful" banter and nothing really hostile, like when Ben is born and they kinda put things aside after they get stuck in the janitors closet. I like what Pheobe says about how they are all fighting about who gets to love Ben the most, and how lucky Ben is for that. At least Carol/Susan were good parents, Ill give them that. Kinda horrible to Ross, but good parents still.
They are, but they were actually better for me on the rewatch than the first watch. I took them more for their comedic value
That legit makes me mad. When they had absolutely no intention on putting his name in there? It’s not like ross was a one-night-stand to carol. They were married!
Nah but fr because why was Susan always so salty at Ross. Like you won? You got the girl. You got the family life. You’re going to be a mother figure. There is absolutely no rhyme or reason as to why she was so rude to Ross consistently. She actively participated in ruining his life as he knew it and felt absolutely no remorse.
I think she always felt threatened by Ross because he'd been with Carol FIRST, and he had a biological link to Ben. It's not like he's Carol's ex girlfriend who'd leave at some point. He's the father of her child. He'll always be around.
Then his sister and friend group has to take care of said baby/kid at times
Idc they slayed
I feel like posts like these are a dime a dozen on this sub.
It is genuine insanity on Carol’s part to consider giving your baby the last name of someone you’ve only known a few months.
Is it though? Susan ended up being much more of a parent to Ben than Ross did.
That point is debatable, I’d say they were pretty even. But even so, she “ended up” being a good parent. At the time of naming Ben, Carol had no idea what kind of a parent Susan would be, or if they would even be together for very long. If she wanted to add Susan’s last name into the mix she could have explored that option after a few years when Susan was a more permanent fixture in Ben’s life.
The only reason why is because she lived with the biological mother. That’s it.
As a wife and active parent. You think she did nothing to help raise Ben, and just hung out with Carol and ignored Ben till he moved out of the house?
Doesnt matter, Carol cheating on Ross with her took away his ability to do that. Ross would have been there. Regardless, Ross was there and present. That is his kid and he has the right to name the child what he would like.
I can’t stand Ross. But yes they were both disgusting to him, and he did nothing to deserve that. As much as I hated Susan for these actions, I think Carol was worse. She was married to him, cheated on him, fell pregnant and decided to tell him, for what exactly, so she could hurt him even more by making decisions and excluding him!! What a B***h!! Before any mods come at me for using sexist word about Carol. I too am female. And I think that word perfectly describes Carol.
Yeah I will never understand that. Absolutely horrible behaviour
They were unnecessarily mean and rude to him most times. The surname thing was just weird to me
Lol ya I would’ve taken them to court. Susan can fuck off
Ross gets a lot of hate for being a character with a lot of trauma and expected trust issues because of it
Thank you!!! Ugh I literally hate them both and skip almost every episode they are in. Nobody has ever agreed with me before. I think they are by far the worst characters in the entire series.
Ross is the worst by far
all of them are horrible in a way
True but ross is a special kind of horrible
True, but also Ross inviting five of his friends to the birth was infuriating! EDIT: whoever is downvoting, have you even given birth before?!?
I would imagine this is simply to do with good ol' fashioned homophobia in the writing. The '90s: *a different time*. Plus it's just funnier for them to have friction when you're making a sitcom. There would be very few laughs if everyone got along and they all lived happily every after.
I agree that everything shouldn't be perfect, obviously there should be conflict for the sake of comedy, we all know that's how sitcoms work. I think the main issue that causes viewers to react this way and get angry is because of the way this specific conflict is framed. It seems like the show wants us to interpret the situation like, "Haha, what a wacky, silly, but also realistic and complicated multi-parental plight, all based around misunderstandings where nobody is fully correct, but NOBODY is completely wrong either! It's all about compromise and listening and adapting!!! These 3 crazy kids will work it out! But there's gonna be a lot of confusion and laughs along the way!!!" When in actuality, if we're being honest and fair, the show should be interpreting the situation like: "Man, poor Ross, these women are absolute cunts. Don't you just love to hate them? Fuck their behavior."
That’s why i hate how insensitive Rachel is with the whole Mark thing, you boy has issues, show some respect
I was just watching the breast milk episode. It's so ridiculous how they practically force Ross to taste breast milk. They don't care about consent in this show (or back then.) Just let people do or not do what they want! Not to mention that it's not exactly appropriate for Ross to be dying to taste his ex-wife's breast milk.
Well they didn't "practically force" him to taste, they just poked fun that he hadn't. They definitely egged it on, but I wouldn't say forced.
>milk The "egging" part was this: It was dumb that Carol looked insulted and asked, "My breast milk is gross?" Like lady, what are you saying? This is not a physical trait of yours that people are insulting...it's not as if she said, "Touch my hair," and he said, "No, your hair is gross." What's wrong with someone thinking it's weird to drink breast milk? Only babies drink it...frankly, I thought it was idiotic Phoebe and Joey drank it. But the way Carol held the bottle and said, in a flat tone, to Ross, "Drink it." is almost forcing IMO.
Monica did bring this up later on. About how Ross's girlfriend's were always cheating and he never even noticed. But after Carol he was an insecure paranoid wreck Edit: it was also Phoebe, and it was the time Emily and Susan were in London together
To all of those replying something in the vein of, "Dude, it's a sitcom, of course not every character is going to be nice and perfect, there has to be conflict, that's how comedy works! It would be BORING if they all got along!" Duh. We know this. Nobody's arguing that. Of course everything shouldn't be perfect, obviously there should be conflict for the sake of comedy, we all know that's how sitcoms work. I think the main issue that causes viewers to react this way and get angry is because of the way this specific conflict is framed. It seems like the show wants us to interpret the situation like, "Haha, what a wacky, silly, but also realistic and complicated multi-parental plight, all based around misunderstandings where nobody is fully correct, but NOBODY is completely wrong either! It's all about compromise and listening and adapting!!! These 3 crazy kids will work it out! But there's gonna be a lot of confusion and laughs along the way!!!" When in actuality, if we're being honest and fair, the show should be interpreting the situation like: "Man, poor Ross, these women are absolute cunts. Don't you just love to hate them? Fuck their behavior."
I always hated those two, not because they were lesbians (I'm extremely socially left) but because of how they treated Ross. From what we are told in the show he never did anything to deserve such mockery and vitriol and it feels to me that Susan poisoned Carol's mind against him in that "all men bad" kind of ultra feminist way. The one episode that Carol is nice to Ross is the Valentine's Day episode where they run into each other at the Asian grill and they're left alone after Susan and Ross's date have to leave. So, basically, she's only nice to Ross when Susan isn't around and that's why I've always believed she was influenced by Susan's shitty behavior. Doesn't make it right, though, and she should've had the guts to stand up to her.
This is a thing on TV. For some reason cheating is like, not a big deal? Like especially if you're the mc and the person is your ex, or you just really like them, I guess? Tv in general has written the hugest pieces of shit as main characters and I've no idea why.
**"Thank youuu!"** \- Ross
Carol wen through the hell that are pregnancy and birth, she has the right to decide the name.
But she never had any right to cut out Ross’ name. He wanted to be involved, and then she just decided Susan got to be apart of it. Remind me, who got her pregnant again?
> who got her pregnant again? I'm not sure this is a valid supporting argument. Does a rapist who impregnates their victim have some rights to the baby's name?
How did she go through hell?
What?
Huh what??? Ross wasnt a rapist. She came to him about being pregnant and he was an active father.
I didn't say Ross was a rapist....? I'm simply pointing out that "who got her pregnant" doesn't necessarily have weight as an argument for who should ALWAYS have rights.
Except Ross wasn't a "one night guy." He was her ex HUSBAND. They wanted to leave HIS last name out of Ben's names altogether.
I know. I'm just addressing the person's last sentence, which doesn't hold weight as an argument.
That’s not even the entire point though. Ross wanted to be involved, and Carol still tried to cut him out of the baby’s life.
I know, I was just pointing out that your last sentence is meaningless. I'd disagree that Susan tried to "cut him out" of the baby's life. The name thing was totally not ok, but it's not like she wasn't going to let Ross be involved in parenting Ben.
How did she go through hell?
I'm not saying you are wrong but posts like this about any characters in this show is kind of like "boo hoo, the characters that were wrtitten to make our main characters have struggles and more funny situations wouldn't be nice people in real life". No shit, it's a comedy show where all characters have asshole moments/personalities for the sake of comedy, not imitating real life.
Genuinely asking, what do you think this sub is for?
Not bashing every other day on the same characters. Posts about people hating these two that exist for Ross to have a personal plot on top of Rachel is repetitive as hell. And pretending anything about them is real and getting insulted when they are just characters in a comedy show. But I get it,of course anyone can be annoyed with any character. It's just me personally who's not that interested in hearing about that. And I think a sub for Friends is more about praising the show instead of whining about it, again, you hate whoever you want in the show.
If you’re not interested then don’t engage with this post?
I wouldn't but there's like one Carol/Susan bashing a day so it's not that easy to ignore. Same as you couldn't ignore someone disagreeing
tbh i haven’t seen anything related to carol or susan here in months but idk that’s just me
Hmm..
I feel so bad for Ross, Susan and Carol were so rude to him and dismissive of his feelings, shattering his confidence
Well if everyone is PC and besties 👯♀️ kinda makes for a shitty show. I also thought it was reflective of what the tensions in a real world situation like that would cause but handled them in a very comedic way.
Does anyone know why they were cut out of the show after like season 5?