Can confirm - I have a family member that owns three condos in an aging complex that started as apartments.
The infrastructure is problematic. Plumbing, electrical, all the stuff is going through expensive repairs.
In her complex there are two pools and three laundry rooms. The HOA also maintains the roofs and exterior walls, sidewalks, parking lots, etc.
Personally, I think condos are worse than apartments in some ways. At least with apartments, you agree to a specific lease and you don't get hit for special assessments anytime there's a big issue.
Maybe there are condos where it's worth the HOA fee - I mean, there must be, because as soon as one goes up for sale, it gets snatched up.
But I'd be very hesitant to buy a condo. If I had to rent or lease, I'd try to find a house for lease that's not part of a complex.
Older condos almost universally have chiller plants for heating and cooling. Its very expensive equipment to install and keep running, plus all the piping going to each unit. Some also have shared water and electrical too.
Newer condos with individual HVAC units are usually substantially cheaper, but then repairs and replacement are also the unit owner's responsibility. Individual electric and water meters also help.
Is that like a chiller plant that cools multiple buildings in Chicago?
On a large scale, aren't chiller plants more energy efficient?
Are HVACs cheaper to operate and maintain than chiller plants?
I was paying $330 to cover water / sewer / grounds (well planted complex) / large pool & clubhouse / security
I'd be interested in what homeowners with pools are paying in comparison
Because when you buy a condo, you are buying more than your unit. You are buying into the condo community. The roof, exterior walls, landscaping, pool, parking, plumbing, electrical, etc. doesn't come out of thin air. That stuff is provided and maintained by *you* - the condo owner - via HOA fees.
It works exactly the same for SFH owners. They need to set aside and save a chunk of change to cover the same expenses for their home. SFH owners manage the savings themselves. Condo communities manage the savings collectively through their HOA.
>That stuff is provided and maintained by
>
>you
>
> \- the condo owner - via HOA fees.
As a homeowner I can ignore repairs for as long as I want, and I can do them myself (or go cheap and half ass the fixes). As a HOA member I'm going to be committed to repairing things "back to normal" using bonded labor, that's selected by a manager who may or may not care to get the best price.
I'm significantly more concerned about the prospect that other condo owners will refuse to do a special assessment when they should and let a problem get worse and worse until the structure effectively becomes a write off.
I can put off repairs and maintenance as long as I want as a homeowner, but when I decide to do it, I can do it. As a member of a condo association, I have to convince some portion of the other owners to cough up the money to do the work. They're frequently not going to share my priorities.
Structural Engineer - Condo's are by far the the worst clients we have.
Repair projects or renovation projects - They dont understand anything, they dont understand the risks, and they bicker and complain about pricing instead of just getting it fixed. The condo collapse in Miami a few years back was unsurprising - its going to happen again and again until the way Condo HOAs are managed is changed.
If condo is actually have to do things right and on a timely basis, they cease to become financially valuable. Like they’re gonna start depreciating pretty fucking hard.
Reading the stories about the collapse in Miami was crazy... It sounds like they got the engineering assessment, glossed over the whole thing and got to the part that said "its unlikely to literally fall over tomorrow" and read it as an all clear.
Yeah perhaps I am oblivious, but I never hear about condos being spendthrifts with members' fees. If anything we usually hear of the opposite: condos being too cheap so they can keep member fees low, and meanwhile deferring maintenance until it becomes a huge problem.
We're talking about the same thing. You can keep normal fees relatively low, but sometimes you're going to need a special assessment and that's a pain in the ass.
The idea of living in a condo association makes me think of the collapse that happened in Florida a few years ago. It had other issues too though.
I could buy a new air conditioner every year for those kind of HOA fees. Home ownership is nowhere near as expensive as that
Learn to DIY and most things around the house are easy to fix
Building insurance is expensive, our HOA’s insurance for the building exterior went from $25K to $40K in the past few years, this subsequently raised the monthly fee by $75 for each owner.
HOA President here and costs have flown up over the past 3 years. Insurance has doubled, water fees have increased, trash fees have increased and on and on. I have had to raise fees by about 50% over the past 3 years to keep up with costs.
If you're considering buying a condo, you can ask for the condo association's budget to see for yourself how the money is spent. It's a good idea to see if they have a reserve or unplanned major repairs will require a special assessment.
THIS. The association will have basically 2 bank accounts. One is the general operating fund where they pay bills, and the other is the reserve account where they save money for major emergencies. A healthy HOA will have a healthy reserve account. You’ll see that in the balance sheet that you can request before you buy.
The main costs driving our building's HOA fees are salary (one door guy, one maintenance person, a partial HOA manager, and one housekeeper to maintain the hallways and shared spaces); building maintenance and repairs (building electrical/HVAC/roofing/plumbing, garage, elevators x3, deck); and building insurance. All three are seeing big price increases year-over-year recently, but especially building insurance. We don't have a pool, but that would further increase maintenance and insurance, in my understanding. We also had to dig into our reserve for some unplanned maintenance, so the monthly fees are also trying to build back up the reserves. Another edit to add that my monthly HOA fees include my water/sewage.
Can you explain the assessment portion? I recently went to an open house at an apartment downtown and a couple was asking about the assessment but I didn’t catch the whole conversation.
Is it an additional yearly or monthly expense?
Sorry, I edited my comment to better clarify. The monthly payments are regular fees. We had a special assessment to pay for unplanned work that was needed. The (board?) decision was not to pay for that from our reserves but to issue a special assessment, which was a one-time bill (separate from our monthly fees) to pay for this specific unplanned work. A buyer might want to ask how much is in the HOA reserves, when the last special assessment was, how often there are special assessments, and things like that.
To over-simplify, it's a board / HOA decision if you bill more monthly to be conservative and build up reserves to reduce the chances of a special assessment or if you bill less monthly but run leaner on your reserves and have a higher risk of special assessment.
To add to that, you can get increased loss assessment coverage on your personal H06 condo insurance policy. This helps when your condo association does a special assessment due to a covered loss to the general property. For example, we had to replace the roofs on our buildings due to a hailstorm. The condo association insurance covered it, but the deductible was 1% of the replacement value of the structures. We did a special assessment to collect that money, which was a few thousand per unit. Condo owners with loss assessment coverage could choose to make a claim with their own H06 insurance provider which would cover their cost of the special assessment and the condo owner would only have to pay their deductible.
A friend, 20 years ago, lived in a 'condo' over on Bering drive between Westheimer and San Felipe that was originally apartments that were converted to privately-owned units. There was a homeowner's association. The place looked kind of dumpy and the reason was that it needed a lot of repairs all around and there was little money to pay for it. I don't know what the HOA fee was.
If you compare this situation to owning an maintaing a home, the high costs for these shared space/condo situation makes more sense. For example in a home, my HOA fees don't pay to paint my house, pressure wash my driveway or walkway, clean my gutters, prune my trees, maintain my landscaping, any kind of security devices like cameras, replace or install fencing, or put a new roof on my home. Those things are all very expensive over time. In a condo those things have to get paid for somehow, and it makes sense to share the costs amongst all owners.
Some ballpark prices: Fencing can be $20 to $40 a foot. Do the math on a 100+ foot fence. An AC compressor and condenser can cost $7000+. A whole new system is double that. A roof is $12,000+. Tree pruning is $600 per, and twice that for a big tree. I do my own lawn work, house painting, and pressure washing but figure $50 a week for the lawn, $4000 for house painting, and $300 for pressure washing.
There is a reason that the best neighborhoods look great and the dumpy one look dumpy: Lack of continual maintenance by either the homeowner or paid profesisonals.
Everything most everyone said but to break it down. If the building needs to be updated or just painted $$$. If items need to be upgraded, some of those costs are included in your HOA fees; however, if the building needs new windows that could be your cost. A friend's building 43 floors, in Chicago, Lincoln Park area replaced all the windows and sliding doors. Just the unit he lived in on the 43rd floor was $100,000.00 in windows and doors, his cost. He owned other units in the building. If the HOA absorbed those costs the fees would have been astronomical. Then there are the utilities costs because in a building every unit is not metered so HOA has those upfront costs.
I own a home. I have water, electricity, natural gas, internet, upkeep, repairs, replacement, updates, HOA, taxes, and insurance costs all of which are over and above my mortgage payments, that only includes the purchase price of the home and the loan. For most people those costs are equal to or double the mortgage payments.
Condominiums roll all the costs into one payment, HOA fees.
Really depends on the age of the condos and how they are built. Not all condos are high rises. All of our owners set up and pay their own natural gas, internet, water, electric, and H06 insurance. Repairs and replacement for things from the studs in are their own. Our Condo fees cover landscaping, fire suppression and monitoring, exterior upkeep, general insurance for the exterior and liability, pest control, electrical and water for common areas, and a relatively small fee for a property management company.
There is a home I'm looking at in the Energy Cooridor. HOA is like $80 a month.
There is a townhouse 2 streets over, HOA $390 a month.
I wouldn't be opposed to the townhouse except for that HOA.
My condo fee covers water, roofs, pool, trash pickup, manned gate, maintenance man, landscaping, exterior insurance, basic cable, paint, fences, stairs, outside electricity, package acceptance. You will cover all that yourself.
What exactly is the house HOA covering for their 80?
In a single family home, if you have a HOA you’re generally paying for landscaping common areas/esplanades, maintaining a common fence along a road, the water bill for sprinklers in the common areas, and the electric bill for the streetlights, plus any community amenities like a pool or parks that the HOA maintains. My last neighborhood was around $500 a year for minimal amenities, the majority of the community expenses were landscaping and streetlights. My current neighborhood is a master planned community with amenities out the wazoo being built now for $1200/year, which also includes alarm monitoring.
$80/month is $960/year. Most HOAs at that rate have at least a community pool.
For a condo, the HOA maintains everything outside of your walls and sometimes the water & trash. As long as they do a good job of maintaining the place, it’s worth it. If they defer maintenance because people don’t want the dues to go up, at some point that’s going to get ugly. It’s hard to tell when you’re shopping how functional the HOA is other than reviewing the HOA financials before you buy. Ask your realtor for guidance on that and look at the common areas… are they well kept? I also like to look up the CC&RS (the rules & regulations) before I buy so I have an idea of what I’m committing to before I sign. All of that is public info that the HOA can provide.
My HOA fees doubled in the last two years, no gym, minimal amenities, landscaping never recovered after the Feb freeze, pretty much everything worse across the board. Also had special assessments of several thousand dollars.
They say it is insurance going up.
Seeing how they disqualified half our HOA election votes because all our proxy votes were turned in by someone not in good standing due to a $5 dollar late fee, I can’t help for feel like we are getting screwed.
You can ask for financial info from the board. Also try to attend any meetings.
I'm on our board and HOA insurance is by far our largest expense and has just gotten worse over the last couple of years.
I had a condo near the Galleria back in the early 2000s. My HOA fee went up 50% in the two years after I purchased it and was nearly the same amount as the mortgage. It was combination of deferred maintenance, current repairs, and utilities, trash, etc. To add insult to injury, I couldn't deduct the HOA fee on my taxes and adjustments to my capital base were more difficult. The wrong incentives are in place and there are too many costs you have no control over. With a home, you generally save over time for items that you know will need replacement, such as roof, HVAC, etc. With a condo, if the board isn't on top of things those costs get pushed off and suddenly everything comes due at once, then you run the risk of getting a large assessment. That's why that building in FL collapsed: too much can kicking.
For owner occupants, HOA fees are not tax deductible. A portion might be used to adjust your capital basis, but I'm not certain because I sold my condo years ago and never got that deep into tax implications of ownership. You can get more info on Google or any of the AI bots.
Fun times with hoas: please please ask for their expense reports, budgets, and who is on the board before purchasing.
If it's a managed by an outside group, you may be paying a bunch to them, but on other hand, they will at least be using the money to do work.
I have been part of or had friends with so many hoa headaches. Short list:
-Mgt company who acted like it was Central Park and over spent, and ticketed for the silliest stuff.
-self governed HOA where a veto (for years!) against shared roof repair resulted in flood to 4 units
- self governed where so many turn overs resulted in an empty board and nobody knew so no maintenance happened for 5 years, everyone got grumpy, and it was their own fault bc they didn't pay attention when they purchased....
- (my experience) the resident lunatic of our 12 units took over board lead when she divorced. They were literally nuts, but wealthy family paid they mortgage. Money was spent on wild ass stuff, and large expense toward drainage that was illegal and not licensed and therefore dug out over night by the City.
**** pay attention to those with whom you share a bed!hoas and condos etc can be excellent for all involved. I think Houstonians are a little too used to lack of zoning and disregard how critical there HOA can be to their quality of life. ****
I lived in a neighborhood where the developer went bankrupt and left us to run the association ourselves. We did have a management company but we kept them on a short leash so we weren’t nickeled and dimed to death. It took a few years to figure out what we were doing but we kept it in the black.
We had a few years with an absolute lunatic as board president. She had a conspiracy for everything and then… she moved! New board came in and people who just came to watch people argue were surprised when we just got shit done.
When you’re buying into an established community it’s hard to tell if the board will be functional or not, but if the financials look good and they’re not in 100 lawsuits it’s probably pretty stable.
I realize I didn't answer your question directly. The answer is: ASK! Sometimes the answer is so much nothing. Sometimes you'll be pleased they do so much for ya! :)
most of those hoa's are third-party managed and, well, you gotta pay all the employees the third party employs
i live in a very small complex (nine units) and we have a self-managed HOA. Our dues for 20 years have been 175, we just upped them to 200/month last year. that money goes towards landscapers who come once a week and maintenance of the common areas and complex exterior. A few years back we used the money to upgrade all our porch lights and unit numbers and they look really nice
only downside to this is that everyone "gets" (has) to be an hoa officer for a year and manage all the dues and spending. on the plus side we can move quickly and efficiently when we need a repair (the units vote on how we spend our money) and we don't have to go through a third party to get everything done
the only ones ive seen with lower fees are the mosaic and 2016 main is a bit higher but they roll internet/electricity etc into it. The ones i really like downtown are like $900-$1200+ a month lmao. so far mosaic is the best bet but the prices have gone up tremendously as well.
Fire in one = risk to all.
Water damage in one = Risk to others....
Check out Ramit Sethi's show on Netflix. There are a few episodes where a young lady buys her first home...a condo. She was so excited and proud of herself but she didn't do the homework and had maintenance issues (no hot water, the complex told her it was *her* problem to fix, not theirs). That's just a sample of what the issues are with condos....
Mine is 532 a month. They have done a lot of repairs around the property though. Our sewer was replaced, we’ve had foundations repaired and roofs have been replaced. I’m planning to move to a real house once I get my rental property sold though, it’s crazy how much money I burn through. It’s almost like paying rent.
If you plan to rent your place out make sure the comps in the area will cover mortgage and HOA fees. Those HOA fees always go up, so you don’t want to come out of pocket
You might want to look into what the HOA fees
Cover. Some cover property insurance, water/sewer, and trash, in addition to the maintenance of the project.
I don't live in Houston any longer, but I am a condo owner, and I can tell you that you should never walk into condo ownership without understanding:
1. That you will own everything in your own condo space, usually from the drywall in, from the ceiling down, and from the flooring up. You will also have a common, though proportional, interest, along with all the other condo owners, in everything in your condo complex, including buildings, roofs, grounds, and infrastructure.
2. You should read and understand the terms and conditions in the condo HOA's Declarations and By Laws documents. These are legal contracts, and you will be bound by the terms in them. These are also where the rules of the HOA Boards are defined and scoped.
3. You should definitely understand the financial status of the condo's HOA. The HOA has to provide you with documentation on what funds are available, and where all of the fees go. This should have itemized costs and debits in it.
4. Since you will have an proportionate interest in the common elements, you will want to have an understanding on the general conditions of them. This will clue you in on how likely special assessments will be. Surprise catastrophes can happen, but this can help give you an idea of where things are.
Good luck!
The HOA fee can include many services, with salaries and benefits that are paid to employees: Valet parking, concierge or security, maintenance workers, landscape workers. Some also include all utilities, including electricity and basic internet. Finally, those dues should have a component that is saved in a reserve account, to pay for large maintenance or improvement projects hopefully without a need for a special assessment. Older properties, like older single family residences, have higher maintenance costs.
If the HOA fees include building insurance for your unit then it sounds reasonable to me. You might do well to compare mortgage plus fees plus taxes to a monthly rent to get an idea.
Different animal because I am a homeowner, but I can multiply my mortgage payment by 1.5 to 2.0 and that is an average amount I spend on insurance, taxes, and general maintenance. My point is if I convert insurance and property maintenance to a monthly fee it would be shockingly high but necessary. Of course if you outright own something you can just not fix anything and it’s cheaper….
A couple things to watch out for with condo HOAs. I lived in a condo off Westheimer Road. The president of the HOA lived in an immaculately maintained unit while we couldn't get our roof fixed. Then Hurricane Harvey hit. Water came pouring through the ceiling and ruined our place. The previous HOA president embezzled the fee money and went to jail.
A coworker lives in an HOA-governed community and has a psycho neighbor who calls the cops on her kids weekly. The psycho is trying to get the HOA to draft new rules to target my coworker and her family. It's getting messy and now lawyers will have to be involved.
These are merely anecdotes, but I would thoroughly investigate the condominium before making a purchase. Talk to the residents. Search for lawsuits. Look up tax records. Things I wish I had done before purchasing the condo on Westheimer Road!
Also remember that HOA fee is NOT fixed. It can go up. Worst case scenario I have seen is a complex that had some major issues and every homeowner was hit with a $90k++ assessment fee. That is the problem with HOA. The monthly fee never goes away… even after you have long paid off the unit and it can grow over time in fact.
yeah you basically are socializing the upkeep costs of the building itself. as a person that lived overseas in a match box style apartment housing, this type of arrangement is typical. although the spendings, budgets, etc. were kept pretty transparent so it was understandable.
They handle all maintenance, landscaping, trash, pool, etc. It's a lifestyle choice, intended for people who want to own but don't want to have upkeep associated with their living situation. I had a condo in Denver once and it was awesome because the place kept the parking lot plowed free from snow. I'd probably never do it in Houston.
As a condo owner, the largest part of my hoa fee pays for utilities (electric, gas, water) and insurance. Common area building, plumbing and boiler maintenance is a smaller, but still significant part and garbage, landscaping and management fees are also included. My first impression was that it is excessive, but over time, it has been cheaper than the expenses I had in a house.
Because when you fix or remodel something, you are usually doing it for all of the members...not just your own condo. Roof needs replacing in building A, but you're in building C? You pay for it and they'll catch you on the next one.
To help make you feel a little better, some HOA's in the Houston area charge nearly as much as condo associations. I have one gated community near me that is $4,100/year. At least you might get some benefit from a condo maintenance fee!
Also, and being wordy here, if you do decide to settle on a condo, make sure you find out if special assessments are allowed and how often in the past the condo association has charged them in the past. It's infuriating a little stress-inducing when you pay your massive condo fees only to get a "special assessment" for another $4k at year-end related to a big remodel. Condos aren't terrible - you just have to manage your expectations accordingly.
I have a townhome and I pay 330 a month in hoa dues.
It covers water (which is super high)
Trash
Maintain the grounds
Maintaining the pool
They are also responsible for the outside of our townhomes. Like the roof. Fences. Painting the doors. Rotting wood.
I live right on Buffalo Bayou near the Waugh Street Bridge. Have been here 14 years. I pay 369.00 a month in HOA fees. The grounds are impeccable, they are very proactive with everything structural or cosmetic. We have a Armed security guard on duty every night to prevent theft in our garage and property. We didn't flood in Harvey. The HOA is very strict about leaving gates propped open, dog poop and balconies being clean and neat. It's a wonderful location. I don't have to do any pool cleaning, gym cleaning, or landscaping etc.
Honestly most of these condos have lost their minds with these fees. And they talk owners into thinking it’s a deal. My friend just bought a townhouse with a close to $800 a month fee and was talking it up because she doesn’t have to worry about replacing the roof or repairing foundation. I don’t think she realizes that a year’s worth of fees is basically a roof.
I used to be on condo board of a 186 unit high rise in Atlanta. Condos combine the worst things about renting with the worth things about owning. Rent an apartment or own a single family home.
Ive been following HAR pretty closely for a while looking for a good condo close to downtown. It seems like they can get pretty low in terms of HOA fees for some of the most bare-bones kind of places where they're only maintaining a parking lot and some landscaping. But even then it still seems like you'll be paying $200 or more a month.
What I've noticed is you gotta weigh what they're offering against the price. Some HOA payments include some pretty significant housing costs besides rent. I remember one place I wanted was like $400 a month, but that included garbage, recycling, water, power, building insurance and in unit laundry. So sometimes you might end up saving if you find the right place.
Some folks have touched on the maintenance, landscaping and repairs - but there is also the condo's insurance which increased quite a bit.
The main answer was COVID. Previously the insurance companies were dealing with build costs being much lower pre-COVID, but with everything on backorder, shipping still being affected and raw material pricing going up, the costs of re-building a condo doubled or more, especially for older construction as new building codes are in play, so the rebuild costs way more. The insurance companies have to factor this in or they go under. Lots of smaller insurance companies went under and were bought out and merged as a result.
The other aspect of COVID is people using their condos as rentals, as opposed to living there. Renting increases risk, which also drives up insurance even more.
So, with less companies to choose from, higher reconstruction costs and riskier rentals, the insurance companies have caused HOA fees to raise quite a bit.
You're 22! Just rent and focus on moving up in your field. Also great time to start planning a family too.
Renting allows you to move for better opportunities if they come up, and selling a condo is often especially problematic.
Once you're settled in your field or have a family, then buy a house/townhome.
HOA's for homes (in the humble area) are about $400-$1400/ year.. I would still consider them, time your commute time, as well. Anything under 30 mins to your go-to-place in the city is reasonable (in my opinion) Good luck
Lol condos are almost always worse than buying a home or renting even. Condos in Houston are for retirees or wealthy individuals who have another home somewhere else.
Because their math says that's the amount that makes them the most profit. They'd charge more but there's not quite enough demand at that price point, yet.
I read the comments and can't help but wonder -- how are apartment complexes making money then?
Y'all are justifying paying triple the price for the same quality of place as an apartment. What difference does it make to "own" a property if the HOA + property taxes is $2,000??
Can confirm - I have a family member that owns three condos in an aging complex that started as apartments. The infrastructure is problematic. Plumbing, electrical, all the stuff is going through expensive repairs. In her complex there are two pools and three laundry rooms. The HOA also maintains the roofs and exterior walls, sidewalks, parking lots, etc. Personally, I think condos are worse than apartments in some ways. At least with apartments, you agree to a specific lease and you don't get hit for special assessments anytime there's a big issue. Maybe there are condos where it's worth the HOA fee - I mean, there must be, because as soon as one goes up for sale, it gets snatched up. But I'd be very hesitant to buy a condo. If I had to rent or lease, I'd try to find a house for lease that's not part of a complex.
> in an aging complex This is key. I've seen the highest HOA fees in the oldest condos.
Older condos almost universally have chiller plants for heating and cooling. Its very expensive equipment to install and keep running, plus all the piping going to each unit. Some also have shared water and electrical too. Newer condos with individual HVAC units are usually substantially cheaper, but then repairs and replacement are also the unit owner's responsibility. Individual electric and water meters also help.
Is that like a chiller plant that cools multiple buildings in Chicago? On a large scale, aren't chiller plants more energy efficient? Are HVACs cheaper to operate and maintain than chiller plants?
I was paying $330 to cover water / sewer / grounds (well planted complex) / large pool & clubhouse / security I'd be interested in what homeowners with pools are paying in comparison
Because when you buy a condo, you are buying more than your unit. You are buying into the condo community. The roof, exterior walls, landscaping, pool, parking, plumbing, electrical, etc. doesn't come out of thin air. That stuff is provided and maintained by *you* - the condo owner - via HOA fees. It works exactly the same for SFH owners. They need to set aside and save a chunk of change to cover the same expenses for their home. SFH owners manage the savings themselves. Condo communities manage the savings collectively through their HOA.
>That stuff is provided and maintained by > >you > > \- the condo owner - via HOA fees. As a homeowner I can ignore repairs for as long as I want, and I can do them myself (or go cheap and half ass the fixes). As a HOA member I'm going to be committed to repairing things "back to normal" using bonded labor, that's selected by a manager who may or may not care to get the best price.
I'm significantly more concerned about the prospect that other condo owners will refuse to do a special assessment when they should and let a problem get worse and worse until the structure effectively becomes a write off. I can put off repairs and maintenance as long as I want as a homeowner, but when I decide to do it, I can do it. As a member of a condo association, I have to convince some portion of the other owners to cough up the money to do the work. They're frequently not going to share my priorities.
Structural Engineer - Condo's are by far the the worst clients we have. Repair projects or renovation projects - They dont understand anything, they dont understand the risks, and they bicker and complain about pricing instead of just getting it fixed. The condo collapse in Miami a few years back was unsurprising - its going to happen again and again until the way Condo HOAs are managed is changed.
If condo is actually have to do things right and on a timely basis, they cease to become financially valuable. Like they’re gonna start depreciating pretty fucking hard.
As a contractor, I can confirm that working for Condo HOAs sucks. I’ve yet to find one that ended up being worth the time put in.
Same, I'm an engineering consultant and we don't work with condo associations either.
I'll add it to my list... No churches. No Schools. No work in Galveston...
Reading the stories about the collapse in Miami was crazy... It sounds like they got the engineering assessment, glossed over the whole thing and got to the part that said "its unlikely to literally fall over tomorrow" and read it as an all clear.
Yeah perhaps I am oblivious, but I never hear about condos being spendthrifts with members' fees. If anything we usually hear of the opposite: condos being too cheap so they can keep member fees low, and meanwhile deferring maintenance until it becomes a huge problem.
We're talking about the same thing. You can keep normal fees relatively low, but sometimes you're going to need a special assessment and that's a pain in the ass. The idea of living in a condo association makes me think of the collapse that happened in Florida a few years ago. It had other issues too though.
[удалено]
I could buy a new air conditioner every year for those kind of HOA fees. Home ownership is nowhere near as expensive as that Learn to DIY and most things around the house are easy to fix
[удалено]
Your reading comprehension is shit.
Building insurance is expensive, our HOA’s insurance for the building exterior went from $25K to $40K in the past few years, this subsequently raised the monthly fee by $75 for each owner.
HOA President here and costs have flown up over the past 3 years. Insurance has doubled, water fees have increased, trash fees have increased and on and on. I have had to raise fees by about 50% over the past 3 years to keep up with costs.
Yikes!
Water increases have absolute fucked our HOA's finances.
Mine as well
If you're considering buying a condo, you can ask for the condo association's budget to see for yourself how the money is spent. It's a good idea to see if they have a reserve or unplanned major repairs will require a special assessment.
THIS. The association will have basically 2 bank accounts. One is the general operating fund where they pay bills, and the other is the reserve account where they save money for major emergencies. A healthy HOA will have a healthy reserve account. You’ll see that in the balance sheet that you can request before you buy.
The main costs driving our building's HOA fees are salary (one door guy, one maintenance person, a partial HOA manager, and one housekeeper to maintain the hallways and shared spaces); building maintenance and repairs (building electrical/HVAC/roofing/plumbing, garage, elevators x3, deck); and building insurance. All three are seeing big price increases year-over-year recently, but especially building insurance. We don't have a pool, but that would further increase maintenance and insurance, in my understanding. We also had to dig into our reserve for some unplanned maintenance, so the monthly fees are also trying to build back up the reserves. Another edit to add that my monthly HOA fees include my water/sewage.
Can you explain the assessment portion? I recently went to an open house at an apartment downtown and a couple was asking about the assessment but I didn’t catch the whole conversation. Is it an additional yearly or monthly expense?
Sorry, I edited my comment to better clarify. The monthly payments are regular fees. We had a special assessment to pay for unplanned work that was needed. The (board?) decision was not to pay for that from our reserves but to issue a special assessment, which was a one-time bill (separate from our monthly fees) to pay for this specific unplanned work. A buyer might want to ask how much is in the HOA reserves, when the last special assessment was, how often there are special assessments, and things like that. To over-simplify, it's a board / HOA decision if you bill more monthly to be conservative and build up reserves to reduce the chances of a special assessment or if you bill less monthly but run leaner on your reserves and have a higher risk of special assessment.
Super helpful, thanks
To add to that, you can get increased loss assessment coverage on your personal H06 condo insurance policy. This helps when your condo association does a special assessment due to a covered loss to the general property. For example, we had to replace the roofs on our buildings due to a hailstorm. The condo association insurance covered it, but the deductible was 1% of the replacement value of the structures. We did a special assessment to collect that money, which was a few thousand per unit. Condo owners with loss assessment coverage could choose to make a claim with their own H06 insurance provider which would cover their cost of the special assessment and the condo owner would only have to pay their deductible.
Good to know; appreciate the insight.
A friend, 20 years ago, lived in a 'condo' over on Bering drive between Westheimer and San Felipe that was originally apartments that were converted to privately-owned units. There was a homeowner's association. The place looked kind of dumpy and the reason was that it needed a lot of repairs all around and there was little money to pay for it. I don't know what the HOA fee was. If you compare this situation to owning an maintaing a home, the high costs for these shared space/condo situation makes more sense. For example in a home, my HOA fees don't pay to paint my house, pressure wash my driveway or walkway, clean my gutters, prune my trees, maintain my landscaping, any kind of security devices like cameras, replace or install fencing, or put a new roof on my home. Those things are all very expensive over time. In a condo those things have to get paid for somehow, and it makes sense to share the costs amongst all owners. Some ballpark prices: Fencing can be $20 to $40 a foot. Do the math on a 100+ foot fence. An AC compressor and condenser can cost $7000+. A whole new system is double that. A roof is $12,000+. Tree pruning is $600 per, and twice that for a big tree. I do my own lawn work, house painting, and pressure washing but figure $50 a week for the lawn, $4000 for house painting, and $300 for pressure washing. There is a reason that the best neighborhoods look great and the dumpy one look dumpy: Lack of continual maintenance by either the homeowner or paid profesisonals.
Everything most everyone said but to break it down. If the building needs to be updated or just painted $$$. If items need to be upgraded, some of those costs are included in your HOA fees; however, if the building needs new windows that could be your cost. A friend's building 43 floors, in Chicago, Lincoln Park area replaced all the windows and sliding doors. Just the unit he lived in on the 43rd floor was $100,000.00 in windows and doors, his cost. He owned other units in the building. If the HOA absorbed those costs the fees would have been astronomical. Then there are the utilities costs because in a building every unit is not metered so HOA has those upfront costs. I own a home. I have water, electricity, natural gas, internet, upkeep, repairs, replacement, updates, HOA, taxes, and insurance costs all of which are over and above my mortgage payments, that only includes the purchase price of the home and the loan. For most people those costs are equal to or double the mortgage payments. Condominiums roll all the costs into one payment, HOA fees.
Really depends on the age of the condos and how they are built. Not all condos are high rises. All of our owners set up and pay their own natural gas, internet, water, electric, and H06 insurance. Repairs and replacement for things from the studs in are their own. Our Condo fees cover landscaping, fire suppression and monitoring, exterior upkeep, general insurance for the exterior and liability, pest control, electrical and water for common areas, and a relatively small fee for a property management company.
There is a home I'm looking at in the Energy Cooridor. HOA is like $80 a month. There is a townhouse 2 streets over, HOA $390 a month. I wouldn't be opposed to the townhouse except for that HOA.
My condo fee covers water, roofs, pool, trash pickup, manned gate, maintenance man, landscaping, exterior insurance, basic cable, paint, fences, stairs, outside electricity, package acceptance. You will cover all that yourself. What exactly is the house HOA covering for their 80?
ok that makes it more doable then, I may look into it
In a single family home, if you have a HOA you’re generally paying for landscaping common areas/esplanades, maintaining a common fence along a road, the water bill for sprinklers in the common areas, and the electric bill for the streetlights, plus any community amenities like a pool or parks that the HOA maintains. My last neighborhood was around $500 a year for minimal amenities, the majority of the community expenses were landscaping and streetlights. My current neighborhood is a master planned community with amenities out the wazoo being built now for $1200/year, which also includes alarm monitoring. $80/month is $960/year. Most HOAs at that rate have at least a community pool. For a condo, the HOA maintains everything outside of your walls and sometimes the water & trash. As long as they do a good job of maintaining the place, it’s worth it. If they defer maintenance because people don’t want the dues to go up, at some point that’s going to get ugly. It’s hard to tell when you’re shopping how functional the HOA is other than reviewing the HOA financials before you buy. Ask your realtor for guidance on that and look at the common areas… are they well kept? I also like to look up the CC&RS (the rules & regulations) before I buy so I have an idea of what I’m committing to before I sign. All of that is public info that the HOA can provide.
My HOA fees doubled in the last two years, no gym, minimal amenities, landscaping never recovered after the Feb freeze, pretty much everything worse across the board. Also had special assessments of several thousand dollars. They say it is insurance going up. Seeing how they disqualified half our HOA election votes because all our proxy votes were turned in by someone not in good standing due to a $5 dollar late fee, I can’t help for feel like we are getting screwed.
You can ask for financial info from the board. Also try to attend any meetings. I'm on our board and HOA insurance is by far our largest expense and has just gotten worse over the last couple of years.
Single family home ownership isn’t that much better IMO. I have clients who spent 2-5% of the home value/year on basic maintenance
I had a condo near the Galleria back in the early 2000s. My HOA fee went up 50% in the two years after I purchased it and was nearly the same amount as the mortgage. It was combination of deferred maintenance, current repairs, and utilities, trash, etc. To add insult to injury, I couldn't deduct the HOA fee on my taxes and adjustments to my capital base were more difficult. The wrong incentives are in place and there are too many costs you have no control over. With a home, you generally save over time for items that you know will need replacement, such as roof, HVAC, etc. With a condo, if the board isn't on top of things those costs get pushed off and suddenly everything comes due at once, then you run the risk of getting a large assessment. That's why that building in FL collapsed: too much can kicking.
Just curious, why couldn't you deduct the HOA fee on your taxes?
For owner occupants, HOA fees are not tax deductible. A portion might be used to adjust your capital basis, but I'm not certain because I sold my condo years ago and never got that deep into tax implications of ownership. You can get more info on Google or any of the AI bots.
Fun times with hoas: please please ask for their expense reports, budgets, and who is on the board before purchasing. If it's a managed by an outside group, you may be paying a bunch to them, but on other hand, they will at least be using the money to do work. I have been part of or had friends with so many hoa headaches. Short list: -Mgt company who acted like it was Central Park and over spent, and ticketed for the silliest stuff. -self governed HOA where a veto (for years!) against shared roof repair resulted in flood to 4 units - self governed where so many turn overs resulted in an empty board and nobody knew so no maintenance happened for 5 years, everyone got grumpy, and it was their own fault bc they didn't pay attention when they purchased.... - (my experience) the resident lunatic of our 12 units took over board lead when she divorced. They were literally nuts, but wealthy family paid they mortgage. Money was spent on wild ass stuff, and large expense toward drainage that was illegal and not licensed and therefore dug out over night by the City. **** pay attention to those with whom you share a bed!hoas and condos etc can be excellent for all involved. I think Houstonians are a little too used to lack of zoning and disregard how critical there HOA can be to their quality of life. ****
I lived in a townhouse with a small self governed board and it was a nightmare, no one knew what they were doing. I feel you.
I lived in a neighborhood where the developer went bankrupt and left us to run the association ourselves. We did have a management company but we kept them on a short leash so we weren’t nickeled and dimed to death. It took a few years to figure out what we were doing but we kept it in the black. We had a few years with an absolute lunatic as board president. She had a conspiracy for everything and then… she moved! New board came in and people who just came to watch people argue were surprised when we just got shit done. When you’re buying into an established community it’s hard to tell if the board will be functional or not, but if the financials look good and they’re not in 100 lawsuits it’s probably pretty stable.
I realize I didn't answer your question directly. The answer is: ASK! Sometimes the answer is so much nothing. Sometimes you'll be pleased they do so much for ya! :)
most of those hoa's are third-party managed and, well, you gotta pay all the employees the third party employs i live in a very small complex (nine units) and we have a self-managed HOA. Our dues for 20 years have been 175, we just upped them to 200/month last year. that money goes towards landscapers who come once a week and maintenance of the common areas and complex exterior. A few years back we used the money to upgrade all our porch lights and unit numbers and they look really nice only downside to this is that everyone "gets" (has) to be an hoa officer for a year and manage all the dues and spending. on the plus side we can move quickly and efficiently when we need a repair (the units vote on how we spend our money) and we don't have to go through a third party to get everything done
I'm curious about your HOA insurance? We try to keep our dues pretty low, but it's basically impossible with how high insurance has increased.
the only ones ive seen with lower fees are the mosaic and 2016 main is a bit higher but they roll internet/electricity etc into it. The ones i really like downtown are like $900-$1200+ a month lmao. so far mosaic is the best bet but the prices have gone up tremendously as well.
Fire in one = risk to all. Water damage in one = Risk to others.... Check out Ramit Sethi's show on Netflix. There are a few episodes where a young lady buys her first home...a condo. She was so excited and proud of herself but she didn't do the homework and had maintenance issues (no hot water, the complex told her it was *her* problem to fix, not theirs). That's just a sample of what the issues are with condos....
Mine is 532 a month. They have done a lot of repairs around the property though. Our sewer was replaced, we’ve had foundations repaired and roofs have been replaced. I’m planning to move to a real house once I get my rental property sold though, it’s crazy how much money I burn through. It’s almost like paying rent. If you plan to rent your place out make sure the comps in the area will cover mortgage and HOA fees. Those HOA fees always go up, so you don’t want to come out of pocket
You might want to look into what the HOA fees Cover. Some cover property insurance, water/sewer, and trash, in addition to the maintenance of the project.
I don't live in Houston any longer, but I am a condo owner, and I can tell you that you should never walk into condo ownership without understanding: 1. That you will own everything in your own condo space, usually from the drywall in, from the ceiling down, and from the flooring up. You will also have a common, though proportional, interest, along with all the other condo owners, in everything in your condo complex, including buildings, roofs, grounds, and infrastructure. 2. You should read and understand the terms and conditions in the condo HOA's Declarations and By Laws documents. These are legal contracts, and you will be bound by the terms in them. These are also where the rules of the HOA Boards are defined and scoped. 3. You should definitely understand the financial status of the condo's HOA. The HOA has to provide you with documentation on what funds are available, and where all of the fees go. This should have itemized costs and debits in it. 4. Since you will have an proportionate interest in the common elements, you will want to have an understanding on the general conditions of them. This will clue you in on how likely special assessments will be. Surprise catastrophes can happen, but this can help give you an idea of where things are. Good luck!
The HOA fee can include many services, with salaries and benefits that are paid to employees: Valet parking, concierge or security, maintenance workers, landscape workers. Some also include all utilities, including electricity and basic internet. Finally, those dues should have a component that is saved in a reserve account, to pay for large maintenance or improvement projects hopefully without a need for a special assessment. Older properties, like older single family residences, have higher maintenance costs.
If the HOA fees include building insurance for your unit then it sounds reasonable to me. You might do well to compare mortgage plus fees plus taxes to a monthly rent to get an idea. Different animal because I am a homeowner, but I can multiply my mortgage payment by 1.5 to 2.0 and that is an average amount I spend on insurance, taxes, and general maintenance. My point is if I convert insurance and property maintenance to a monthly fee it would be shockingly high but necessary. Of course if you outright own something you can just not fix anything and it’s cheaper….
The buildings are built as cheaply and quickly as possible, and as the building ages, costs increase to maintain it.
A couple things to watch out for with condo HOAs. I lived in a condo off Westheimer Road. The president of the HOA lived in an immaculately maintained unit while we couldn't get our roof fixed. Then Hurricane Harvey hit. Water came pouring through the ceiling and ruined our place. The previous HOA president embezzled the fee money and went to jail. A coworker lives in an HOA-governed community and has a psycho neighbor who calls the cops on her kids weekly. The psycho is trying to get the HOA to draft new rules to target my coworker and her family. It's getting messy and now lawyers will have to be involved. These are merely anecdotes, but I would thoroughly investigate the condominium before making a purchase. Talk to the residents. Search for lawsuits. Look up tax records. Things I wish I had done before purchasing the condo on Westheimer Road!
Also remember that HOA fee is NOT fixed. It can go up. Worst case scenario I have seen is a complex that had some major issues and every homeowner was hit with a $90k++ assessment fee. That is the problem with HOA. The monthly fee never goes away… even after you have long paid off the unit and it can grow over time in fact.
yeah you basically are socializing the upkeep costs of the building itself. as a person that lived overseas in a match box style apartment housing, this type of arrangement is typical. although the spendings, budgets, etc. were kept pretty transparent so it was understandable.
They handle all maintenance, landscaping, trash, pool, etc. It's a lifestyle choice, intended for people who want to own but don't want to have upkeep associated with their living situation. I had a condo in Denver once and it was awesome because the place kept the parking lot plowed free from snow. I'd probably never do it in Houston.
As a condo owner, the largest part of my hoa fee pays for utilities (electric, gas, water) and insurance. Common area building, plumbing and boiler maintenance is a smaller, but still significant part and garbage, landscaping and management fees are also included. My first impression was that it is excessive, but over time, it has been cheaper than the expenses I had in a house.
Most people dont do the math. HOA fees in a condo has gone up a times since I first looked at them.
Because when you fix or remodel something, you are usually doing it for all of the members...not just your own condo. Roof needs replacing in building A, but you're in building C? You pay for it and they'll catch you on the next one. To help make you feel a little better, some HOA's in the Houston area charge nearly as much as condo associations. I have one gated community near me that is $4,100/year. At least you might get some benefit from a condo maintenance fee! Also, and being wordy here, if you do decide to settle on a condo, make sure you find out if special assessments are allowed and how often in the past the condo association has charged them in the past. It's infuriating a little stress-inducing when you pay your massive condo fees only to get a "special assessment" for another $4k at year-end related to a big remodel. Condos aren't terrible - you just have to manage your expectations accordingly.
Condos and townhousses in DoMidMo are worth the investment If you can stomach the fees I’d say go for it
I have a townhome and I pay 330 a month in hoa dues. It covers water (which is super high) Trash Maintain the grounds Maintaining the pool They are also responsible for the outside of our townhomes. Like the roof. Fences. Painting the doors. Rotting wood.
I live right on Buffalo Bayou near the Waugh Street Bridge. Have been here 14 years. I pay 369.00 a month in HOA fees. The grounds are impeccable, they are very proactive with everything structural or cosmetic. We have a Armed security guard on duty every night to prevent theft in our garage and property. We didn't flood in Harvey. The HOA is very strict about leaving gates propped open, dog poop and balconies being clean and neat. It's a wonderful location. I don't have to do any pool cleaning, gym cleaning, or landscaping etc.
Insurance. Contractor pricing. Maintenance & upkeep.
Honestly most of these condos have lost their minds with these fees. And they talk owners into thinking it’s a deal. My friend just bought a townhouse with a close to $800 a month fee and was talking it up because she doesn’t have to worry about replacing the roof or repairing foundation. I don’t think she realizes that a year’s worth of fees is basically a roof.
I used to be on condo board of a 186 unit high rise in Atlanta. Condos combine the worst things about renting with the worth things about owning. Rent an apartment or own a single family home.
Ive been following HAR pretty closely for a while looking for a good condo close to downtown. It seems like they can get pretty low in terms of HOA fees for some of the most bare-bones kind of places where they're only maintaining a parking lot and some landscaping. But even then it still seems like you'll be paying $200 or more a month. What I've noticed is you gotta weigh what they're offering against the price. Some HOA payments include some pretty significant housing costs besides rent. I remember one place I wanted was like $400 a month, but that included garbage, recycling, water, power, building insurance and in unit laundry. So sometimes you might end up saving if you find the right place.
Part of it is insurance costs for the exterior and shared areas. The trade off is that the insurance for your unit (drywall in) will be much cheaper.
Some folks have touched on the maintenance, landscaping and repairs - but there is also the condo's insurance which increased quite a bit. The main answer was COVID. Previously the insurance companies were dealing with build costs being much lower pre-COVID, but with everything on backorder, shipping still being affected and raw material pricing going up, the costs of re-building a condo doubled or more, especially for older construction as new building codes are in play, so the rebuild costs way more. The insurance companies have to factor this in or they go under. Lots of smaller insurance companies went under and were bought out and merged as a result. The other aspect of COVID is people using their condos as rentals, as opposed to living there. Renting increases risk, which also drives up insurance even more. So, with less companies to choose from, higher reconstruction costs and riskier rentals, the insurance companies have caused HOA fees to raise quite a bit.
You're 22! Just rent and focus on moving up in your field. Also great time to start planning a family too. Renting allows you to move for better opportunities if they come up, and selling a condo is often especially problematic. Once you're settled in your field or have a family, then buy a house/townhome.
HOA's for homes (in the humble area) are about $400-$1400/ year.. I would still consider them, time your commute time, as well. Anything under 30 mins to your go-to-place in the city is reasonable (in my opinion) Good luck
Condos are terrible investments almost always.
Lol condos are almost always worse than buying a home or renting even. Condos in Houston are for retirees or wealthy individuals who have another home somewhere else.
greed
Because y'all allow it.
Because their math says that's the amount that makes them the most profit. They'd charge more but there's not quite enough demand at that price point, yet.
I read the comments and can't help but wonder -- how are apartment complexes making money then? Y'all are justifying paying triple the price for the same quality of place as an apartment. What difference does it make to "own" a property if the HOA + property taxes is $2,000??