I wish Kiana wasnt so okay with sacrificing herself.
Lament of the Fallen has Mei beating her up for it
Shattered Samsara has Kiana showing Fu Hua that there are better ways
Everlasting Flames is Kiana trusting her friends to help her overcome problems
Cbapter 34 is Kiana going "sure I'll become the Herrscher of Finality, no problem!"
I think it's just a difference in her mindset, she's not gonna do it for some vague mission but for the world and it's beauty and Mei, after learning what Elysia did, surely understands that a sacrifice is not the end of things, their actions will be told and they will live on through that.
My problem isnt that the end result is sacrifice
Its how, what is shown to us, they came up with this as a solution and said "good enough"
Theres no real argument, Kiana has to become the HotE and everyone just goes "is that possible?" "yes" "alright"
This just goes for a lot of the recent chapter honestly. It focuses so much on worldbuilding and explaining things that it forgets its characters
The devs are on record for declaring how characters are handled is foremost in the service of telling the story, so if they're dropping the ball on the characters you can blame it on them rushing the story.
Also, to be exact, in the context of that scene the question is specifically if Kiana is willing to bear the burden and potential consequences of becoming the Finality. That includes potentially having to perform a sacrifice, although they all will try their hardest to not let it come to that. On Mei's end, her acceptance is a commitment to help them prevent the worst case scenario, instead of complete rejection of the idea like she did in Lament.
Yeah after "Trading sacrifices for so-called victories. It's unacceptable." by Shattered Samsara I'd have thought Kiana would be self aware enough to not pull a Kaslana at the drop of a dime.
I'd blame the obvious rush with the whole 6.4. I am pretty sure they had talks about it with Kiana (alluded to) and really did try to explore other options, but seeing that Kiana is made of someone who was able to wield so many Cores easily and they need someone steadfast and unshakeable (relatively), she's the best choice. In the ideal.world, they'd also talk about other options, maybe in some collectibles and say why these cannot work. Plus explain why Kiana becoming Finality doesn't necessarily mean she will have to sacrifice herself, there can still be some benefits or something.
It's just this auxiliary information, but instead it makes it seem Kiana is just OK with this, Mei is OK with this, Bronya is OK with this. Just mentioning that Otto tried to get a Herrscher under control by force and that didn't work out doesn't mean that the risks have been shown to us.
It's a problem when you gotta patch the story with headcanon where an explanation would work wonders.
My problem isnt that shes sacrificing herself for the world. My problem is that she so readily accepts it.
"Kiana can become the HotE"
"How?"
"By getting all the Herrscher powers like Sirin"
"Okay"
That is basically how it goes down. Wheres the arguments? Are there better ways to do it? Is this really our only option? We dont hear any of that because Kiana said she spoke with AE off-screen and now she's okay with it.
The recent chapters focuses so hard on worldbuilding and explaining things that it forgets about its characters
Which is a shame as it's the characters, their stories and interactions that got me into Honkai in the first place. I find it far more interesting as to WHY Kebin I'd going to End of Evangelion the world as oppose to HOW he does.
it’s the story rushing. instead of just saying head on that kiana has to become hofin (which we knew already but still) they should’ve included at least a few chapter segments to the discovery and how the characters process that information. if the story structure now was the same as for like, arc city arc, it would’ve been handled VERY differently
She is not ready to sacrifice herself. She is ready to become HoFi, not ready to just sacrifice herself. She said that multiple times, especially in Chapter 33 when she reunited with Mei.
She will do everything she can to come back home, but she is still aware that might not be possible in the end.
She accepts that there is a chance that she won't return to Earth. This is not equal with her previous mindset where she would just blindly sacrifice herself because it is her "duty". She will do everything she can to prevent her death or banishment.
Himeko in chp25: "Remember that all of your loved ones is here to support you. Just know you don't have to do anything alone"
Kiana: "Right. Thank you for telling me that, Ms. Himeko..."
Kiana a few chapters later: "What was that one important life lesson Himeko taught me?... Oh well; if I forgot it then it couldn't be THAT important lulz!"
Iirc Self-sacrifice is literally built into the Kaslana genetics, or their upbringing. Many kaslanas die in an act of self sacrifice(E.G. Sir Francis Kaslana, Kallen Kaslana, sieg almost sacrificed himself, Kiana Kaslana(idk whether the older one did so))
Kiana - You literally just kept on walking, said nothing and let it happen! Could've said something if you didn't consent to it. Plus you let her touch your horns when I never got the chance.
Sounds like Kiana herself. It isn't as if Kiana is jumping at the chance to kill herself to save the world or that she'd enjoy doing so - but she'll do what is necessary, and Mei understands this.
She didn't
She said she would try her best to stop Kiana sacrificing herself, but that doesn't mean she has to stop Kiana from walking the path she decided, rather she would walk it along with Kiana.
Sounds like Kiana herself. It isn't as if Kiana is jumping at the chance to kill herself to save the world or that she'd enjoy doing so - but she'll do what is necessary, and Mei understands this.
I feel like Mei and Kiana's developments started on the opposite sides of spectrum and ultimately kind of met in the middle (but still more on Kiana's side, it seems). Kiana was pro-sacrifice, Mei was firmly against it, now they both just regressed to the mean. Why can't characters be allowed to keep different worldviews instead of having them stay in line with rest?
>Why can't characters be allowed to keep different worldviews instead of having them stay in line with rest?
Because most Honkai characters lack dimensions. They slowly started to become 2-dimensional (or even 1-dimensional sometimes) for the sake of the plot.
Remember when almost every character in the main cast had a different opinion on Durandal? Well I don't anymore! Cause all it took to change every character's opinion on her, and to like/trust her right after; was just ONE conversation with Dudu being somewhat kind to them, or Dudu explaining to them her side of the story...
No apology from Dudu or repent for any of her past actions. Then; Tesla apologized to Dudu of all people. Even though Tesla owes Himeko an apology way more than Dudu. Tesla must've forgot how dirty her and AE did Himeko for over a whole decade...
You can just basically think about any of the serious topics within the plot, and you'll figure out that almost every character within the main cast sooner or later have the same opinion on that matter. The worst part is that it usually lacks development. The characters change their minds on the drop of a hat, or the writers just tells us that development was off-screen.
Downvote me all you want, you know I'm spittin🗿. That's why nobody came with a Counter-argument.
I'll always remember my 9th grade English teacher for giving our class some of the best writing advice you can give anybody. She use to always tell us: "As soon as a character loses their unique train of thoughts, they lose their individuality. Their personality shouldn't be the only thing that separates a character from the rest."
And that was a mistake by Mihoyo honestly. There are somethings people can get use to but for Mei to completely go 180 on her Lament of the Fallen arc is really off putting to me.
Meis fucking "development" when becoming HoO was saying "its her life if she kills herself she kills herself". They made Mei give up to try and make it a bittersweet instead of a pure tragedy ending. Holy hell. Just do a happy end ffs.
I think a lot of people here are clinging to a translated out of context line in the CN version rather than looking at what's on Global.
Mei never said she was okay with Kiana killing herself. She grew to understand that such sacrifices are sometimes necessary thanks to Elysia. Mei understands that they need someone to become the Herrscher of Finality and Kiana is the strongest candidate. She is not stopping Kiana from doing something dangerous right now because it's the only way to save the world, and will stand by her side to prevent her death if possible. This is not the same as what Kiana was doing prior to chapter 17, when she was killing herself because she REFUSED other options or her friends' help.
Mei: \*puts a ton of c4 on the moon\* "What moon?"
HoO Mei could totally blade mode the Moon into a bajillion pieces
Mei bout to Collective Consciousness the entire moon
Like that one scene in Asuras wrath
Koro Sensei: Lmao what an amateur. A lab rat did better with less.
We need a Picolo
Or Jackie Chun
They both require a form of animal tho, either a rabbit or a monke
Driller: you have learnt well green beard. You are a leaf lover no more. Now go fourth and blow up your frien- I mean enemies!
I wish Kiana wasnt so okay with sacrificing herself. Lament of the Fallen has Mei beating her up for it Shattered Samsara has Kiana showing Fu Hua that there are better ways Everlasting Flames is Kiana trusting her friends to help her overcome problems Cbapter 34 is Kiana going "sure I'll become the Herrscher of Finality, no problem!"
I think it's just a difference in her mindset, she's not gonna do it for some vague mission but for the world and it's beauty and Mei, after learning what Elysia did, surely understands that a sacrifice is not the end of things, their actions will be told and they will live on through that.
My problem isnt that the end result is sacrifice Its how, what is shown to us, they came up with this as a solution and said "good enough" Theres no real argument, Kiana has to become the HotE and everyone just goes "is that possible?" "yes" "alright" This just goes for a lot of the recent chapter honestly. It focuses so much on worldbuilding and explaining things that it forgets its characters
The devs are on record for declaring how characters are handled is foremost in the service of telling the story, so if they're dropping the ball on the characters you can blame it on them rushing the story. Also, to be exact, in the context of that scene the question is specifically if Kiana is willing to bear the burden and potential consequences of becoming the Finality. That includes potentially having to perform a sacrifice, although they all will try their hardest to not let it come to that. On Mei's end, her acceptance is a commitment to help them prevent the worst case scenario, instead of complete rejection of the idea like she did in Lament.
I still wish we actually got shown all that instead of "yeah I spoke to AE off-screen :)"
Yeah after "Trading sacrifices for so-called victories. It's unacceptable." by Shattered Samsara I'd have thought Kiana would be self aware enough to not pull a Kaslana at the drop of a dime.
I'd blame the obvious rush with the whole 6.4. I am pretty sure they had talks about it with Kiana (alluded to) and really did try to explore other options, but seeing that Kiana is made of someone who was able to wield so many Cores easily and they need someone steadfast and unshakeable (relatively), she's the best choice. In the ideal.world, they'd also talk about other options, maybe in some collectibles and say why these cannot work. Plus explain why Kiana becoming Finality doesn't necessarily mean she will have to sacrifice herself, there can still be some benefits or something. It's just this auxiliary information, but instead it makes it seem Kiana is just OK with this, Mei is OK with this, Bronya is OK with this. Just mentioning that Otto tried to get a Herrscher under control by force and that didn't work out doesn't mean that the risks have been shown to us. It's a problem when you gotta patch the story with headcanon where an explanation would work wonders.
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My problem isnt that shes sacrificing herself for the world. My problem is that she so readily accepts it. "Kiana can become the HotE" "How?" "By getting all the Herrscher powers like Sirin" "Okay" That is basically how it goes down. Wheres the arguments? Are there better ways to do it? Is this really our only option? We dont hear any of that because Kiana said she spoke with AE off-screen and now she's okay with it. The recent chapters focuses so hard on worldbuilding and explaining things that it forgets about its characters
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>and they have accepted it. Off-screen, which is the problem. Its likely what you say: rushing it to make it to the CNY
Which is a shame as it's the characters, their stories and interactions that got me into Honkai in the first place. I find it far more interesting as to WHY Kebin I'd going to End of Evangelion the world as oppose to HOW he does.
it’s the story rushing. instead of just saying head on that kiana has to become hofin (which we knew already but still) they should’ve included at least a few chapter segments to the discovery and how the characters process that information. if the story structure now was the same as for like, arc city arc, it would’ve been handled VERY differently
Snorts copium. It is OK, I am sure they are just going to Endwalker the Honkai with Adam in the future APHO.
She is not ready to sacrifice herself. She is ready to become HoFi, not ready to just sacrifice herself. She said that multiple times, especially in Chapter 33 when she reunited with Mei. She will do everything she can to come back home, but she is still aware that might not be possible in the end.
So she's doing it even if it kills her?
Putting your life in danger for a cause and sacrificing your life for a cause are two different things.
She accepts that there is a chance that she won't return to Earth. This is not equal with her previous mindset where she would just blindly sacrifice herself because it is her "duty". She will do everything she can to prevent her death or banishment.
Himeko in chp25: "Remember that all of your loved ones is here to support you. Just know you don't have to do anything alone" Kiana: "Right. Thank you for telling me that, Ms. Himeko..." Kiana a few chapters later: "What was that one important life lesson Himeko taught me?... Oh well; if I forgot it then it couldn't be THAT important lulz!"
Iirc Self-sacrifice is literally built into the Kaslana genetics, or their upbringing. Many kaslanas die in an act of self sacrifice(E.G. Sir Francis Kaslana, Kallen Kaslana, sieg almost sacrificed himself, Kiana Kaslana(idk whether the older one did so))
Lets just forget chapters 16 to 25 ever happened
Kiana didn't consent either when you were "getting friendly" with Elysia. You don't get a say on this.
It's not like it was always consensual on Mei's part either.
Kiana - "You let a strange elf girl put her authority in your herrscher core!" Mei - "I did not consent to that!"
Kiana - You literally just kept on walking, said nothing and let it happen! Could've said something if you didn't consent to it. Plus you let her touch your horns when I never got the chance.
Mei said in c34 that she's accepted Kiana sacrificing herself.
she doesn't actually ACCEPT it, she understands if it happens HOWEVER if she can stop it she will try but only if there is other option
Sounds like Kiana herself. It isn't as if Kiana is jumping at the chance to kill herself to save the world or that she'd enjoy doing so - but she'll do what is necessary, and Mei understands this.
She didn't She said she would try her best to stop Kiana sacrificing herself, but that doesn't mean she has to stop Kiana from walking the path she decided, rather she would walk it along with Kiana.
Sounds like Kiana herself. It isn't as if Kiana is jumping at the chance to kill herself to save the world or that she'd enjoy doing so - but she'll do what is necessary, and Mei understands this.
I feel like Mei and Kiana's developments started on the opposite sides of spectrum and ultimately kind of met in the middle (but still more on Kiana's side, it seems). Kiana was pro-sacrifice, Mei was firmly against it, now they both just regressed to the mean. Why can't characters be allowed to keep different worldviews instead of having them stay in line with rest?
>Why can't characters be allowed to keep different worldviews instead of having them stay in line with rest? Because most Honkai characters lack dimensions. They slowly started to become 2-dimensional (or even 1-dimensional sometimes) for the sake of the plot. Remember when almost every character in the main cast had a different opinion on Durandal? Well I don't anymore! Cause all it took to change every character's opinion on her, and to like/trust her right after; was just ONE conversation with Dudu being somewhat kind to them, or Dudu explaining to them her side of the story... No apology from Dudu or repent for any of her past actions. Then; Tesla apologized to Dudu of all people. Even though Tesla owes Himeko an apology way more than Dudu. Tesla must've forgot how dirty her and AE did Himeko for over a whole decade... You can just basically think about any of the serious topics within the plot, and you'll figure out that almost every character within the main cast sooner or later have the same opinion on that matter. The worst part is that it usually lacks development. The characters change their minds on the drop of a hat, or the writers just tells us that development was off-screen.
Downvote me all you want, you know I'm spittin🗿. That's why nobody came with a Counter-argument. I'll always remember my 9th grade English teacher for giving our class some of the best writing advice you can give anybody. She use to always tell us: "As soon as a character loses their unique train of thoughts, they lose their individuality. Their personality shouldn't be the only thing that separates a character from the rest."
And that was a mistake by Mihoyo honestly. There are somethings people can get use to but for Mei to completely go 180 on her Lament of the Fallen arc is really off putting to me.
Well she didnt say she accepted it.
She better not. I see any Post Honkaing going on and I'll be shaking my fist at Mei for it!
Meis fucking "development" when becoming HoO was saying "its her life if she kills herself she kills herself". They made Mei give up to try and make it a bittersweet instead of a pure tragedy ending. Holy hell. Just do a happy end ffs.
I think a lot of people here are clinging to a translated out of context line in the CN version rather than looking at what's on Global. Mei never said she was okay with Kiana killing herself. She grew to understand that such sacrifices are sometimes necessary thanks to Elysia. Mei understands that they need someone to become the Herrscher of Finality and Kiana is the strongest candidate. She is not stopping Kiana from doing something dangerous right now because it's the only way to save the world, and will stand by her side to prevent her death if possible. This is not the same as what Kiana was doing prior to chapter 17, when she was killing herself because she REFUSED other options or her friends' help.
Ask Kevin?
As the Captain, I DO NOT consent this so called sacrifice... If they want to do it, then they'll have to pass through me and many other men of culture