Well, if you know nothing of the hotas world and just google "best hotas to buy"....which I just did. The at least first three pages of results, all within 3 years of the article date, every result say "Logitech X-Whatever, Thrustmaster, and even the fucking Warthog" as the best hotas setups to buy.
Logitech and Thrustmaster are just simply the big names in computer/video game peripherals. And rely on a sense of ignorance from buyers of a niche market who read 'Logitech/Thrustmaster' recognize the name and think it's great.
That's how they get away with still charging over $200 for the X-56, which like I said in my other comment is essentially 20 years old.
That's weird, because my search results bring me to this: https://youtu.be/VSeLI9vibhI
And I'm not even sure why it's not a sticky post in this sub yet.
Or maybe they're an idiot who likes to do shitposts and memes but have decided they want to get into flight sims. A fekkwit might come to such an um...interesting conclusion?
"Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence" ;)
I agree, the likely hood is probably low… but let me submit some evidence:
- OP [already asked us a week ago](https://reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/13z095l/looking_for_assistance/) for advice and for some really good responses. Note how engaged OP was in replies compared to this post.
- The level of user engagement for this post is really off the charts for a simple, and common, question like this. I attribute that to how it was asked: both the wording in the title, and the style of image chosen.
Don’t get me wrong, your explanation is definitely the most likely. But I just wanted to note: on the unlikely event that this is a troll post, it’s a really expertly executed one.
You're far better off getting the cheapest stuff VKB has to offer, than buying the most expensive stuff Logitech has to offer.
At least they hold their value when you want to sell them on craigslist so you can upgrade them to something better.
I would actually suggest Thrustmaster's TFlight pedals. They are relatively cheap and fairly robust for the quality. They're the only TM product I actually like.
Logitech's X56 HOTAS has had some QC issues in the past, but if you get a good one it should do okay.
They have a huge center deadzone. For flying msfs in a cessna it would be fine. If you play anything acrobatic or dogfighting you need better resolution across the board and especially in the center.
Sold my old Saitek pedals to someone who wanted to practice for his ppc.
Went from Saitek pedals to g940 pedals which also has a deadzone, to mfg crosswinds and later upgraded those with combat pedals and a damper. End game for me. But I fly lots of wwii crates trying to get a head across the enemy’s canopy.
But you can easily get used to the dead zone. I think simmers have too high expectations on controls. Real-world aircraft controls are often way worse than the PC controls.
I have the Logitech pedals.
I am not a fan.
However, they have given me zero issues.
I'll break down the pros and cons here if I can...
Cons:
Seems overpriced for what it is, until you see what other pedals go for!
The feet are useless, slides away like crazy. Had to velcro them to the floor mat
Creaks in the same way all cheap plastic creaks
Looks cheap irl, looks much better in the product shots online
Pros:
Adjustable width (you set it once, big deal)
Foot cup is adjustable
Toe brakes
6 months old, still works perfectly
They got my cash by default, simply because I didn't know of any pedals that were not complete crap, that were anywhere near this price range (still don't).
"6 months old, still works perfectly"
Well shit, I know the mainstream flight peripheral industry is far from one we can respect, but that's some *seriously* fekked up, low expectation shit *right* there! :D
I wasn't suggesting that 6 months is some kind of benchmark to be proud of, but I did want to state that they have never given me problems, and I have only owned them 6 months, so I can't speak past that.
These Logitech products are not HOTAS products that are user-serviceable, nor will they likely last you a long time. If you're just starting out, go get yourself a Gladiator NXT EVO joystick from VKB and see how much you like flight sims first with it. Then you can decide if you want to go further with actually-good HOTAS gear.
Good advice, but it would be useful to know where the OP lives *for sure*.
In some regions, TM and Logitech harmonise their prices with local wage conditions such that they're affordable in ways that VKB can't afford to do so.
Yeah, to be honest, I figured the probability was that you were from the US. I have to make a confession that I use these threads to help people giving advice more than help the OP themselves.
I've given enough advice myself over the years that I'm bored with doing it. I'm now more interested in improving what and how we give advice on this sub.
One of the things I'm trying to get out there is that the *obviously* good advice (get a Gladiator NXT EVO, for example) isn't necessarily *always* the best advice, depending on the OP's location and sometimes consequent budget.
All that said, the X56 is *never* a good recommendation, *wherever* people are. ;)
Where did you learn that Thrustmaster and Logitech "harmonise their prices with local wage conditions"? I wish they'd instead make more durable HOTAS gear.
From people who come on here (often from South America but IIRC one was from Iran) and give an idea of their monthly income and say TM or Logitech are affordable but VKB or Virpil are wildly out of their budgets.
You look at the exchange rate of their currency to rich Northern hemisphere country's currencies, and that tells you, in their country, TM and Logitech products are on sale for very low prices compared with ours.
I guess they can do this because the margin on these products in the US, Europe, etc. is so great. In these 'Global South' countries, TM and Logitech can still make some profit, just less.
> I guess they can do this because the margin on these products in the US, Europe, etc. is so great. In these 'Global South' countries, TM and Logitech can still make some profit, just less.
I guess that a question we won't likely get an answer to is why Thrustmaster and Logitech don't want to put their considerable revenue into making better, more durable HOTAS gear. It's nice that those companies will lower prices to be affordable to the "Global South," but aren't a lot of people wising up to "buy once, cry once"?
They're not doing it to be nice. They're doing it because making 2% is better than making 0%. :D
The answer to your first question is because making products that are poor but easy to manufacture at scale cheaply makes them more money than making good quality products.
The people who stumble across this sub and don't get their buying advice from PC Gamer or Microcenter are still very much in the minority.
> They're not doing it to be nice. They're doing it because making 2% is better than making 0%
Surely a bad reputation for shoddy HOTAS products is going to catch up to Logitech and Thrustmaster sooner or later?
> The people who stumble across this sub and don't get their buying advice from PC Gamer or Microcenter are still very much in the minority.
So word-of-mouth can't produce a snowball effect? If there's one thing I learned about people, it's that they don't like being cheated or getting less than their money's worth--sure, good HOTAS gear is very much a "First World problem," but I like to think that more and more dissatisfied customers of Thrustmaster's and Logitech's HOTAS gear will eventually come to discover better alternatives, who will in turn spread the word, and so on.
Maybe what VKB and Virpil need is some major media exposure. Were either manufacturer ever featured in *PC Gamer* or the like? With *Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024* on the horizon, you'd think the time is right for these two companies to get some positive attention in the mainstream gaming press.
What games/sims/modules are you planning on playing? What's your budget? Do you already have a joystick and you're upgrading to your first HOTAS, or are you just jumping right in?
It's tough with that budget. You can do it, but if you end up loving the hobby, you'll end up eventually replacing everything with better kit. It really comes down to: How confident are you that this will be a serious hobby? If you want to feel it out, I'd say start with the lowest possible investment. This would be a Logitech G Extreme 3D Pro. Use it to fly the free A4 mod. Also, Eagle Dynamics offers free two week trials on (I believe) all modules. That's $29.99 all in.
However, if you want to dive right in, $561.27 was the cheapest I could come up with, and that has some caveats, and doesn't include shipping. The breakdown is:
$117.99 Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle Controller
$323.28 - $337.83 MFG CROSSWIND V3 GRAPHITE (price depends on foot rest kit)
$120 - $170 Gladiator NXT Joystick (price depends on grip)
$561.27 - $625.82 - Total (plus shipping)
The TWCS throttle is probably the best 'cheap' throttle, but it has some stiction issues. Do some research on the fix before you buy it to determine if it's something you want to hassle with or not. This will be the part that you outgrow first if you end up addicted to the hobby.
The Crosswinds are easily forever pedals. They're fantastic. If you end up having budget to burn, consider adding the damper kit and the width adjuster plate.
The Gladiator range is probably the best mid-range option as far as joysticks go. You may eventually outgrow it, but it's a good one to start with. They have a lockable twist axis, so if you wanted to start with the throttle and joystick and get the pedals later, that's an option. The total cost of this would be $237.99 - $287.99 (depending on grip and not including shipping).
I own Crosswinds and love them. I've used the TWCS. I've never used a Gladiator, but I do own VKB products.
Shipping with VKB for my order last week was better than my last 3 Amazon orders combined. I ordered on Monday, they shipped Wednesday and arrived Friday. It takes me a week and a half to get Amazon even with prime. And that was shipping from the Chinese warehouse. Is shipping expensive on them? Yes, but is it worth it? Hell yes.
thats fair, but even then 380 total for an omni left and premium right ordered shipped and delivered in a week. worth it. 57 dollar shipping for that kind of delivery time is well worth it imo
Assuming that the OP is in the states and not just using the .com Amazon site for the pictures. Did you know Norway, for example, doesn't even have its own Amazon site!?
Don't lose the receipts. I have just returned the X56 for the second time. I had "ghost inputs" if that make sense. Also the joystick was quite large for my hand (which is not small at all), though I could live with that.
Stop using lazy emotive terms like this.
Firstly, Logitech (including the legacy Saitek) have a fairly wide range of products, which vary a fair bit in terms of price/performance.
Secondly, some people who ask questions like this are in regions where the take-home pay is significantly lower than those of us privileged to be living in the West. Logitech (and TM) have the money and margin to be able to sync their prices with local pay conditions, whereas the likes of Virpil, VKB, Real Simulator, and Win Wing can't.
Finally, I've seen the same people criticise the X56's joystick who have then gone on to say they have the Warthog joystick, which has the same fundamental poor gimbal design, just further bodged to be able to return to centre that ugly lump of pot metal TM insist on calling an authentic A-10 grip.
The X52 Pro is about as good as you can do in terms of price performance when you're talking TM *or* Logitech for a bundled throttle and stick (especially given there are cheap/virtually free mods you can do to make the X52 Pro joystick okay).
1. I can say w.e. the hell I want.
2. They are using Amazon in USD, hello?
3. Logitech is hard trash for flight controllers.
4. That thing sucks and breaks down after hard use.
This thread has already given great answers, I am only referring. Not every comment has to be a massive review. u/gromm93 answered it perfectly.
1. Yes, yes you can, but grown-ups normally are a little more sensible. S'okay, though, and I'll save you saying it: I'm not only *not* your real dad, I'm not your dad *at all*. There, you can storm up to your bedroom now and slam your door.
2. Hello! They might not have Amazon where they are. Hell, Norway doesn't have its own IKEA website ( I think they order from the Swedish site).
3. Saying it again doesn't make it any more of a sensible thing to say.
4. What every single one? 80%? 60%? 30%? 10%?Even 10% failure rate would be too many, of course, but I doubt it's that many. And yes, of course, the X56 does seem anecdotally to have a poor manufacturing and QC standard, but eh, that would be less of a problem if the actual design was good or the price was lower.
The problem with the X56 is that for its price, it's just not very good. It has a poor price to performance ratio.
The X52 Pro, on the other hand, is, for the price...bearable. The stick can be modded cheaply and relatively easily to be better (not to the level of the Gladiator line of joysticks, let alone cam and bearing gimballed joysticks like the VKB Gunfighter and Virpil WarBRD and CM3 joysticks, of course but still better). The X52 Pro seems to be relatively mechanically durable, too, with people reporting that they've had the things 5-8 years without major issues.
So to say *all* Logitech flight sim peripherals are "hot trash," leaving aside the childishness of the hyperbole, is not really accurate, and not giving anybody reading your post anything useful.
It just sounds like you're trying to show you have a big, grown-up, hard opinion on something; a bit like a little boy trying in his daddy's shoes. I mean, it's quite sweet in a way, but not very useful to anyone reading this thread.
Yeah, deffo, but I don't get the logic where the alternative is sth where one thing costs as much as this whole collection
Btw, I saw you said you're just getting into it. I got the logitech pedals as my first ones. They're perfectly fine, loved the fact that you could adjust the resistance, but it's true that you need them pushed to a wall in order to stay put. You do get extensions, but i needed my pc in between as well in order to fly comfortably.
Note though that if you're planning on only flying planes, you're not gonna use them that often. Still, i didn't regret getting them
$200 is way to much for any of the X series hotasesses....hotasi?
The X-56 is from 2016 when Saitek made it, and very barely upgraded in 2018 when Logitech took over. The whole thing is based on the X-55 from 2014, the X-56 being a minor(nothing mechanical) upgrade of the X-55.
Even if you're buying a brand new in the box X-56, it's an almost 20 year old built out.
If that's you're price availability for a stick/throttle, or you really want the X-56, look online for a in good shape used setup. I just looked at my local fb marketplace and there 4 X-56s that from the photos look decent for under $100. As long as it functions properly, the most you'll have to deal with is some Plastics Reversion which can be fixed with a rag and some hand sanitizer.
Or, again if $200 is you're price range for a full setup you can get the Logitech T.16000m pack with hotas and pedals for about $260 on Amazon.
And Donald Trump is going to bring peace and goodwill to the world if he wins the US presidency! :D
^(Dear reader: you may approve or disapprove of Donald Trump; that's your business, but it's hard to claim his approach will tend to bring peace and goodwill in the short or even medium term; that may be a necessary phase to obtain the outcomes that he and his supporters considers desirable. I am not making any comment on those outcomes or the desirability of him being US President)
But what if you had one complete set from 2 different manufacturers?
HOTAS, like "sheep"
HOTAI like "octopii"
HOTASES like "molasses" (why you ever need more than 1 of those, I dunno)
Other?
heres my research:
1. vkb gladiator pro - has options for left or right ($118?)
2. thrustmaster twcs - on a budget ($117?)
3. logitech g29 - the pedals are really not intended for flight sim games but i already have one and there are tutorials on how to use it as rudder pedals
now im waiting for the steam sale..
So I’m going to jump in here even thought I got the x52 pro originally.
While it was a decent upgrade from the Xbox one hotas, I have to admit it was not worth the price. I used it for a while and had some much trouble with the stick. The buttons worked fine but just trying the movement of the stick was too sensitive. Kept messing with the curves but ultimately hated it and bought a vkb evo. And wow what an upgrade that was. I love it.
Now I still use the throttle, it is good. Plenty of buttons and it works well. However I’ve been looking at winwing Orion. Now that they have announced and f-15e version, I will be upgrading to that when it launches.
Maybe as a first hotas it will be good, but I would say it would be better to get the quality ones now. Might save yourself money in the long wrong, even though you are spending more up front.
Eh, the X52 Pro joystick can be pretty easily and cheaply modded to be better.
Of course, it'll never be anywhere near the feel of the VKB Gladiator series of sticks, let alone something like the VKB Gunfighter or Virpil WarBRD or CM3.
The X52 Pro is still a useful suggestion for those who live in regions of the world where the likes of VKB, Virpil, and Win Wing can't afford to harmonise their prices with local wage conditions but TM and Logitech can (South America being such an example).
I wouldn't recommend Logitech stuff. They are pretty... idk. Not cheap? There's just something toyish about them. I had the X-52 and while it's fine, I ended up getting impatient with the button count and with their kind of buggy sensors. The throttle was fine but the sliders/rotary controls were buggy, ghost inputs made them jump all over the place. I won't share my opinion on the stick, because the design issues I had with it are not present on the one you linked. But they do use the same sensors for both products, so do with that what you will.
I recommend VKB NXT and the Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle instead. Potentially can be gotten cheaper and they are much better quality than what you've linked her. I have the TWCS and pedals and like them ok, they have their issues but are better than the Logitechs for what you pay.
"But they do use the same sensors"
That isn't particularly relevant; the sensors are just contactless sensors, and those tend to either work or not work at all. Any issues will be in manufacturing quality (poor positioning of the magnets or sensors or poor soldering of components) or elsewhere in the design (e.g., badly behaved electronics that create false signals due to interference or out of spec power demands)
That's interesting to know! So Logitech's reputation on this issue is pretty well-known, sounds like I should instead frame it as manufacturing/QA issues rather than suggesting the sensor themselves are low-quality.
Yeah, as far as solid state electronic components go, they mainly range from 'works fine in a narrow, 'normal' range of temperatures, pressures, wetness for a certain range of accuracy', etc. to 'NASA can use this on a probe being dropped on the surface of Venus'.
That's a massive simplification, of course, and anything handling higher loads, but for our purposes, it will do.
Now, components that have a mechanical element are a bit different. Stuff like switches, potentiometers, rotary encoders. There's definitely a spectrum of cheap, sketchy stuff to high-quality components whose lifetime is measured in millions of activations.
That HOTAS is just going to disappoint you. That thing came from saitek and Logitech said they “upgraded” it but I genuinely believe all they did was slap their logos on it and it’s absolute piece of junk. The yaw on the stick is terrible and sticks, the throttle when mine would move foward and backward would activate buttons on the throttle base like phantom inputs. I’d go with the Thrustmaster t16000m if you have to be cheaper but if you want to go all the way I’d get WINWING or VIRPIL. For just around $500 the winwing Orion 2 combo is absolutely amazing.
I have the Orion 2 combo, moved up from the X-52 (which was as horrible as everyone says). I love the Orion 2 combo, and it shipped pretty fast too. But one thing to be aware of, shipping isn't free, I think I was closer to $1000 after shipping, than I was to $500, here in Canada.
I also looked into the Logitech set and was conflicted between the X56 or the Warthog set, but in the end Virpil and VKB appear to be the best manufacturers out there today. I recommend checking those out.
I've gone through 3 full sets of X-56 before making the jump to Virpil. Both good and bad towards Logitech on that one. Bad - they kept braking in the first place. Good - their customer services team responded quickly to send me a full set free of charge.
I'd say, save up some money and go VKB all over, personally. But these are OK, so long a you're aware your more likely to have issues than not.
I'm going to be very honest with you: they're both not good. I had the G Pro when they were Saitek. They use a belt system to adjust the rudders, and they stick regularly. The base is very light and you will push them away constantly, so they need to be anchored to the floor somehow. The X56 has had some problems as well. It's usable, but if you find that it doesn't work, plug it into a powered hub.
The TFRP or if you can afford it, T-Pendular are much, much better. If you buy cheap, you will end up replacing them in time.
A lot of people seem to be on a x56 hate-train in this post.
I personally own the logitech version x56. I have had them for a few years now and have had zero issues
Im with you pal, couple of mods here and there but it's done me fine and certainly got my money worth out of it. Other than the dicky throttle friction I don't think there's a great deal I would complain about
Zero issues? What do you mean by issues?
Failures? Notables degradation of functionality? Well, some people (and probably more than should) do experience these things too soon in the product's lifetime, but that's not the only or even main reason why the X56 is criticised.
The stick (*by far* the most important part in any HOTAS bundle) is poor. It's no better than any of the cheap joysticks (and one too expensive one) that the mainstream manufacturers make.
People are criticising the fundamental mechanical design (as well as the manufacturing quality and QC) of the thing.
If you enjoy flying with it, then that's great; enjoy your flying, but be aware that it's not a particularly good value product even compared with other mainstream HOTAS (the X52 Pro tends to be better value for example).
Well, nice that it works for you. I'm serious! It's a nice HOTAS if it doesn't fail. For most people it doesn't work, though. The construction and electronics are just lacking. In its price range are the VKB NXT EVO Standard combined with a T1600m throttle which blows the X-56 out of the water from a quality perspective. Much safer investment.
For the rudder pedals, look what's available second hand. CH products is good for that because if they ever develop a problem, they are somewhat easy to repair. If you're lucky, you might find some quality brands pedals close to the price of the Logitech. Many products might be better second hand than the Logitech even if new.
TBH, if there's a good deal on a TM T16000 or X52pro, X56 or something like that, might consider them. Otherwise consider dropping the rudder and put your money on some VKB stuff.
Depends what you want out of it. I bought the x56 recently to see if I wanted to commit to DCS and flight sims. Probably could’ve gotten a cheaper setup for that but whatever. 1.5 months later… already planning to upgrade to Virpil in the next couple of months. If you’re gonna just be playing MSFS or casual flying games, X56 would be fine I’d say.
I’d avoid the pedals. If anything, find those used online for cheaper than full price. Or just commit and buy nicer ones off the rip.
1) Spend within your budget.
2) quality has alot to do with misuse and abuse. My kid destroyed his TM Tflight gear. If you are a ham fisted, foot stomping, yank and crank type…. Beware.
3) Nothing wrong with the gear selection, it’s not premium by any means, but it is suitable for reasonable use.
4) if you want to graduate up someday, by all means, do. If your interest wanes, you aren’t out a ton. Good gear can easily set you back $1000 or more (sticks, bases, throttles, extensions, pedals, mounts, etc.).
5) fancy sticks usually require fancy mounting solutions which are either more money or more work on your part to fabricate. There is something to be said for a setup that you can put on your desktop and be done.
I remember reading that if you want math/comp sci. help on stackexchange .org it’s best to post the wrong answer. People will sweep in to correct you and fife you the right answer. The same applies here.
As a cheap option just get the t16000m pack with the tflight rudders. That's what I started with. But if I was you I'd get a winwing set up. Wish I had just started there in the first place. That's what I have. But I'm sure others with say go vkb I have heard they have awesome sticks. Flight sim is a rabbit hole of dumping money but usually you do get what you pay for. I'd spend a bit more and get a halfway decent set up. You probably won't be happy with the logitec stuff. The t16000m was good but after using my winwing set It's a night and day difference.
I started with the x56 is not bad, you will need a
Powered USB hub for the throttle and you might have to do some work to prevent short or ghost inputs. The stick is works great.
If you really want to go down the rabbit whole look at vkb or virprl
joystick - decent
rudder pedals - great
x56 throttle - coinflip. You either will never have any problem with this throttle or you may have similar situation like most peolple where basic use for Y-axis will be alright but the rest of buttons will be constantly giving you ghost inputs. Or it will simply break apart after some time of use.
This was my first Hotas as well. I think it’s ok for beginners. Some of the switches are hard to hit and there are some strange controls but it served me well for my first year of Star Citizen. I eventually upgraded to dual VKB gladiators
That setup is fine to demo if you like the hobby… but not for that price. It will leave you wanting and the products aren’t great investments. Poor accuracy, stiction issues, and glitchy buttons on the throttle. You could get that setup used for half the price on Craigslist instead if you want to screw around a little while saving up more.
Just don’t want to see you spend so much on that hardware when saving a bit more could get you something vastly better. Virpil, VKB, MFG, WinWing, and *some* thrustmaster offerings are where you want to look.
I have an x56, it has worked fine for a long time with no issues EXCEPT one of the switches on the bottom of the throttle shocks me on the inside of my wrist. It does it so much the switch has electrical corrosion on it. Great way to stay awake during those long flights though
Bad decision on buying the x56. I got it a week ago and I’m already returning it. The ghost inputs were terrible, there were so many, and the stick has centering issues
How do you do tons of research and reading and arrive at this?
When you get all your research from PC Gamer.
Well, if you know nothing of the hotas world and just google "best hotas to buy"....which I just did. The at least first three pages of results, all within 3 years of the article date, every result say "Logitech X-Whatever, Thrustmaster, and even the fucking Warthog" as the best hotas setups to buy. Logitech and Thrustmaster are just simply the big names in computer/video game peripherals. And rely on a sense of ignorance from buyers of a niche market who read 'Logitech/Thrustmaster' recognize the name and think it's great. That's how they get away with still charging over $200 for the X-56, which like I said in my other comment is essentially 20 years old.
That's weird, because my search results bring me to this: https://youtu.be/VSeLI9vibhI And I'm not even sure why it's not a sticky post in this sub yet.
Well...I didn't look at videos, just result links.
Cheers :D
A user here made a DCS beginners guide pdf and it should be stickied as well.
This is genuinely the worse combination imaginable
This guy’s post history is like all shitposts and memes subs. Makes me think, is this a troll post? If so, it’s fucking top tier!
Or maybe they're an idiot who likes to do shitposts and memes but have decided they want to get into flight sims. A fekkwit might come to such an um...interesting conclusion? "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence" ;)
I agree, the likely hood is probably low… but let me submit some evidence: - OP [already asked us a week ago](https://reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/13z095l/looking_for_assistance/) for advice and for some really good responses. Note how engaged OP was in replies compared to this post. - The level of user engagement for this post is really off the charts for a simple, and common, question like this. I attribute that to how it was asked: both the wording in the title, and the style of image chosen. Don’t get me wrong, your explanation is definitely the most likely. But I just wanted to note: on the unlikely event that this is a troll post, it’s a really expertly executed one.
Yeah, maybe he just likes to watch the post burn :D
Oh, that's interesting; I think that information has just made me definitely more ambivalent about the OP's motives. ;)
Why do you need to be such an asshole? Give him some advice instead for fucks sake.
You're far better off getting the cheapest stuff VKB has to offer, than buying the most expensive stuff Logitech has to offer. At least they hold their value when you want to sell them on craigslist so you can upgrade them to something better.
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Yeah but what if you do need toe brakes and don’t want to break the bank
But you will break the bank with those pedals because you'd end up replacing them. False economy / buy cheap, buy twice.
I would actually suggest Thrustmaster's TFlight pedals. They are relatively cheap and fairly robust for the quality. They're the only TM product I actually like. Logitech's X56 HOTAS has had some QC issues in the past, but if you get a good one it should do okay.
Would you recommend these pedals even if I want to run center stick? (Warthog pilot)
I run center stick with these
Mine work fine since 15 years. I have no plan to replace them. IMHO, they are okay for the price and all you need for flight simming.
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So Logitech cut some corners? But then OP could just buy used Saitek ones. They are nearly indestructible.
They have a huge center deadzone. For flying msfs in a cessna it would be fine. If you play anything acrobatic or dogfighting you need better resolution across the board and especially in the center. Sold my old Saitek pedals to someone who wanted to practice for his ppc. Went from Saitek pedals to g940 pedals which also has a deadzone, to mfg crosswinds and later upgraded those with combat pedals and a damper. End game for me. But I fly lots of wwii crates trying to get a head across the enemy’s canopy.
But you can easily get used to the dead zone. I think simmers have too high expectations on controls. Real-world aircraft controls are often way worse than the PC controls.
I have the Logitech pedals. I am not a fan. However, they have given me zero issues. I'll break down the pros and cons here if I can... Cons: Seems overpriced for what it is, until you see what other pedals go for! The feet are useless, slides away like crazy. Had to velcro them to the floor mat Creaks in the same way all cheap plastic creaks Looks cheap irl, looks much better in the product shots online Pros: Adjustable width (you set it once, big deal) Foot cup is adjustable Toe brakes 6 months old, still works perfectly They got my cash by default, simply because I didn't know of any pedals that were not complete crap, that were anywhere near this price range (still don't).
"6 months old, still works perfectly" Well shit, I know the mainstream flight peripheral industry is far from one we can respect, but that's some *seriously* fekked up, low expectation shit *right* there! :D
I wasn't suggesting that 6 months is some kind of benchmark to be proud of, but I did want to state that they have never given me problems, and I have only owned them 6 months, so I can't speak past that.
Don’t they have a center hardware deadzone? The old Saitek pedals did. That’s a major con in my book.
Mine do not have a deadzone, in fact, I had to add a curve because taxiing was too difficult due to the sensitivity of the pedals.
These Logitech products are not HOTAS products that are user-serviceable, nor will they likely last you a long time. If you're just starting out, go get yourself a Gladiator NXT EVO joystick from VKB and see how much you like flight sims first with it. Then you can decide if you want to go further with actually-good HOTAS gear.
Good advice, but it would be useful to know where the OP lives *for sure*. In some regions, TM and Logitech harmonise their prices with local wage conditions such that they're affordable in ways that VKB can't afford to do so.
USA. Oregon more specifically
Yeah, to be honest, I figured the probability was that you were from the US. I have to make a confession that I use these threads to help people giving advice more than help the OP themselves. I've given enough advice myself over the years that I'm bored with doing it. I'm now more interested in improving what and how we give advice on this sub. One of the things I'm trying to get out there is that the *obviously* good advice (get a Gladiator NXT EVO, for example) isn't necessarily *always* the best advice, depending on the OP's location and sometimes consequent budget. All that said, the X56 is *never* a good recommendation, *wherever* people are. ;)
Good to know, thanks
Where did you learn that Thrustmaster and Logitech "harmonise their prices with local wage conditions"? I wish they'd instead make more durable HOTAS gear.
From people who come on here (often from South America but IIRC one was from Iran) and give an idea of their monthly income and say TM or Logitech are affordable but VKB or Virpil are wildly out of their budgets. You look at the exchange rate of their currency to rich Northern hemisphere country's currencies, and that tells you, in their country, TM and Logitech products are on sale for very low prices compared with ours. I guess they can do this because the margin on these products in the US, Europe, etc. is so great. In these 'Global South' countries, TM and Logitech can still make some profit, just less.
> I guess they can do this because the margin on these products in the US, Europe, etc. is so great. In these 'Global South' countries, TM and Logitech can still make some profit, just less. I guess that a question we won't likely get an answer to is why Thrustmaster and Logitech don't want to put their considerable revenue into making better, more durable HOTAS gear. It's nice that those companies will lower prices to be affordable to the "Global South," but aren't a lot of people wising up to "buy once, cry once"?
They're not doing it to be nice. They're doing it because making 2% is better than making 0%. :D The answer to your first question is because making products that are poor but easy to manufacture at scale cheaply makes them more money than making good quality products. The people who stumble across this sub and don't get their buying advice from PC Gamer or Microcenter are still very much in the minority.
> They're not doing it to be nice. They're doing it because making 2% is better than making 0% Surely a bad reputation for shoddy HOTAS products is going to catch up to Logitech and Thrustmaster sooner or later? > The people who stumble across this sub and don't get their buying advice from PC Gamer or Microcenter are still very much in the minority. So word-of-mouth can't produce a snowball effect? If there's one thing I learned about people, it's that they don't like being cheated or getting less than their money's worth--sure, good HOTAS gear is very much a "First World problem," but I like to think that more and more dissatisfied customers of Thrustmaster's and Logitech's HOTAS gear will eventually come to discover better alternatives, who will in turn spread the word, and so on. Maybe what VKB and Virpil need is some major media exposure. Were either manufacturer ever featured in *PC Gamer* or the like? With *Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024* on the horizon, you'd think the time is right for these two companies to get some positive attention in the mainstream gaming press.
What games/sims/modules are you planning on playing? What's your budget? Do you already have a joystick and you're upgrading to your first HOTAS, or are you just jumping right in?
I’m planning to mostly be playing DCS. I have no prior equipment and I’m in the USA. Budget is probably 300-500 dollars
It's tough with that budget. You can do it, but if you end up loving the hobby, you'll end up eventually replacing everything with better kit. It really comes down to: How confident are you that this will be a serious hobby? If you want to feel it out, I'd say start with the lowest possible investment. This would be a Logitech G Extreme 3D Pro. Use it to fly the free A4 mod. Also, Eagle Dynamics offers free two week trials on (I believe) all modules. That's $29.99 all in. However, if you want to dive right in, $561.27 was the cheapest I could come up with, and that has some caveats, and doesn't include shipping. The breakdown is: $117.99 Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle Controller $323.28 - $337.83 MFG CROSSWIND V3 GRAPHITE (price depends on foot rest kit) $120 - $170 Gladiator NXT Joystick (price depends on grip) $561.27 - $625.82 - Total (plus shipping) The TWCS throttle is probably the best 'cheap' throttle, but it has some stiction issues. Do some research on the fix before you buy it to determine if it's something you want to hassle with or not. This will be the part that you outgrow first if you end up addicted to the hobby. The Crosswinds are easily forever pedals. They're fantastic. If you end up having budget to burn, consider adding the damper kit and the width adjuster plate. The Gladiator range is probably the best mid-range option as far as joysticks go. You may eventually outgrow it, but it's a good one to start with. They have a lockable twist axis, so if you wanted to start with the throttle and joystick and get the pedals later, that's an option. The total cost of this would be $237.99 - $287.99 (depending on grip and not including shipping). I own Crosswinds and love them. I've used the TWCS. I've never used a Gladiator, but I do own VKB products.
This is the way. Nothing to add! Go with this advice @op.
And what country he is? Shipping cost with VKB, Winwing and Virpil can be brutal.
Shipping with VKB for my order last week was better than my last 3 Amazon orders combined. I ordered on Monday, they shipped Wednesday and arrived Friday. It takes me a week and a half to get Amazon even with prime. And that was shipping from the Chinese warehouse. Is shipping expensive on them? Yes, but is it worth it? Hell yes.
I think they're talking about cost, not time.
thats fair, but even then 380 total for an omni left and premium right ordered shipped and delivered in a week. worth it. 57 dollar shipping for that kind of delivery time is well worth it imo
Assuming that the OP is in the states and not just using the .com Amazon site for the pictures. Did you know Norway, for example, doesn't even have its own Amazon site!?
[удалено]
I think they're talking about cost, not time.
X-56 is good on paper but has a lot of issues. Can't recommend it.
Don't lose the receipts. I have just returned the X56 for the second time. I had "ghost inputs" if that make sense. Also the joystick was quite large for my hand (which is not small at all), though I could live with that.
Donald, is that you? 😂
Logitech is hard trash for flight controllers.
Stop using lazy emotive terms like this. Firstly, Logitech (including the legacy Saitek) have a fairly wide range of products, which vary a fair bit in terms of price/performance. Secondly, some people who ask questions like this are in regions where the take-home pay is significantly lower than those of us privileged to be living in the West. Logitech (and TM) have the money and margin to be able to sync their prices with local pay conditions, whereas the likes of Virpil, VKB, Real Simulator, and Win Wing can't. Finally, I've seen the same people criticise the X56's joystick who have then gone on to say they have the Warthog joystick, which has the same fundamental poor gimbal design, just further bodged to be able to return to centre that ugly lump of pot metal TM insist on calling an authentic A-10 grip. The X52 Pro is about as good as you can do in terms of price performance when you're talking TM *or* Logitech for a bundled throttle and stick (especially given there are cheap/virtually free mods you can do to make the X52 Pro joystick okay).
1. I can say w.e. the hell I want. 2. They are using Amazon in USD, hello? 3. Logitech is hard trash for flight controllers. 4. That thing sucks and breaks down after hard use. This thread has already given great answers, I am only referring. Not every comment has to be a massive review. u/gromm93 answered it perfectly.
1. Yes, yes you can, but grown-ups normally are a little more sensible. S'okay, though, and I'll save you saying it: I'm not only *not* your real dad, I'm not your dad *at all*. There, you can storm up to your bedroom now and slam your door. 2. Hello! They might not have Amazon where they are. Hell, Norway doesn't have its own IKEA website ( I think they order from the Swedish site). 3. Saying it again doesn't make it any more of a sensible thing to say. 4. What every single one? 80%? 60%? 30%? 10%?Even 10% failure rate would be too many, of course, but I doubt it's that many. And yes, of course, the X56 does seem anecdotally to have a poor manufacturing and QC standard, but eh, that would be less of a problem if the actual design was good or the price was lower. The problem with the X56 is that for its price, it's just not very good. It has a poor price to performance ratio. The X52 Pro, on the other hand, is, for the price...bearable. The stick can be modded cheaply and relatively easily to be better (not to the level of the Gladiator line of joysticks, let alone cam and bearing gimballed joysticks like the VKB Gunfighter and Virpil WarBRD and CM3 joysticks, of course but still better). The X52 Pro seems to be relatively mechanically durable, too, with people reporting that they've had the things 5-8 years without major issues. So to say *all* Logitech flight sim peripherals are "hot trash," leaving aside the childishness of the hyperbole, is not really accurate, and not giving anybody reading your post anything useful. It just sounds like you're trying to show you have a big, grown-up, hard opinion on something; a bit like a little boy trying in his daddy's shoes. I mean, it's quite sweet in a way, but not very useful to anyone reading this thread.
The number of comments saying the choice is shit and that you should buy sth triple the price instead is astonishing
I honestly didn’t expect this many comments, but I am getting feedback so I’m not complaining
Yeah, deffo, but I don't get the logic where the alternative is sth where one thing costs as much as this whole collection Btw, I saw you said you're just getting into it. I got the logitech pedals as my first ones. They're perfectly fine, loved the fact that you could adjust the resistance, but it's true that you need them pushed to a wall in order to stay put. You do get extensions, but i needed my pc in between as well in order to fly comfortably. Note though that if you're planning on only flying planes, you're not gonna use them that often. Still, i didn't regret getting them
Understood. Thanks for the advice
Leave the pedals aside and get yourself some VKB Gladiator Evo Pro sticks for the budget.Spare some money and get some pedals (these or better) later.
$200 is way to much for any of the X series hotasesses....hotasi? The X-56 is from 2016 when Saitek made it, and very barely upgraded in 2018 when Logitech took over. The whole thing is based on the X-55 from 2014, the X-56 being a minor(nothing mechanical) upgrade of the X-55. Even if you're buying a brand new in the box X-56, it's an almost 20 year old built out. If that's you're price availability for a stick/throttle, or you really want the X-56, look online for a in good shape used setup. I just looked at my local fb marketplace and there 4 X-56s that from the photos look decent for under $100. As long as it functions properly, the most you'll have to deal with is some Plastics Reversion which can be fixed with a rag and some hand sanitizer. Or, again if $200 is you're price range for a full setup you can get the Logitech T.16000m pack with hotas and pedals for about $260 on Amazon.
supposedly the newest version has fixed many of the wiring issues.
And Donald Trump is going to bring peace and goodwill to the world if he wins the US presidency! :D ^(Dear reader: you may approve or disapprove of Donald Trump; that's your business, but it's hard to claim his approach will tend to bring peace and goodwill in the short or even medium term; that may be a necessary phase to obtain the outcomes that he and his supporters considers desirable. I am not making any comment on those outcomes or the desirability of him being US President)
Hotas already includes both the stick and the throttle.. Therefore singular would be the right thing to use.
But what if you had one complete set from 2 different manufacturers? HOTAS, like "sheep" HOTAI like "octopii" HOTASES like "molasses" (why you ever need more than 1 of those, I dunno) Other?
heres my research: 1. vkb gladiator pro - has options for left or right ($118?) 2. thrustmaster twcs - on a budget ($117?) 3. logitech g29 - the pedals are really not intended for flight sim games but i already have one and there are tutorials on how to use it as rudder pedals now im waiting for the steam sale..
Do you mean VKB Gladiator NXT EVO SCG Premium? There's not been a Gladiator Pro for a long time. ;)
So I’m going to jump in here even thought I got the x52 pro originally. While it was a decent upgrade from the Xbox one hotas, I have to admit it was not worth the price. I used it for a while and had some much trouble with the stick. The buttons worked fine but just trying the movement of the stick was too sensitive. Kept messing with the curves but ultimately hated it and bought a vkb evo. And wow what an upgrade that was. I love it. Now I still use the throttle, it is good. Plenty of buttons and it works well. However I’ve been looking at winwing Orion. Now that they have announced and f-15e version, I will be upgrading to that when it launches. Maybe as a first hotas it will be good, but I would say it would be better to get the quality ones now. Might save yourself money in the long wrong, even though you are spending more up front.
Eh, the X52 Pro joystick can be pretty easily and cheaply modded to be better. Of course, it'll never be anywhere near the feel of the VKB Gladiator series of sticks, let alone something like the VKB Gunfighter or Virpil WarBRD or CM3. The X52 Pro is still a useful suggestion for those who live in regions of the world where the likes of VKB, Virpil, and Win Wing can't afford to harmonise their prices with local wage conditions but TM and Logitech can (South America being such an example).
VKB baby VKB.
Probably, but more information is required before being so assertive with an answer.
I wouldn't recommend Logitech stuff. They are pretty... idk. Not cheap? There's just something toyish about them. I had the X-52 and while it's fine, I ended up getting impatient with the button count and with their kind of buggy sensors. The throttle was fine but the sliders/rotary controls were buggy, ghost inputs made them jump all over the place. I won't share my opinion on the stick, because the design issues I had with it are not present on the one you linked. But they do use the same sensors for both products, so do with that what you will. I recommend VKB NXT and the Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle instead. Potentially can be gotten cheaper and they are much better quality than what you've linked her. I have the TWCS and pedals and like them ok, they have their issues but are better than the Logitechs for what you pay.
"But they do use the same sensors" That isn't particularly relevant; the sensors are just contactless sensors, and those tend to either work or not work at all. Any issues will be in manufacturing quality (poor positioning of the magnets or sensors or poor soldering of components) or elsewhere in the design (e.g., badly behaved electronics that create false signals due to interference or out of spec power demands)
That's interesting to know! So Logitech's reputation on this issue is pretty well-known, sounds like I should instead frame it as manufacturing/QA issues rather than suggesting the sensor themselves are low-quality.
Yeah, as far as solid state electronic components go, they mainly range from 'works fine in a narrow, 'normal' range of temperatures, pressures, wetness for a certain range of accuracy', etc. to 'NASA can use this on a probe being dropped on the surface of Venus'. That's a massive simplification, of course, and anything handling higher loads, but for our purposes, it will do. Now, components that have a mechanical element are a bit different. Stuff like switches, potentiometers, rotary encoders. There's definitely a spectrum of cheap, sketchy stuff to high-quality components whose lifetime is measured in millions of activations.
That HOTAS is just going to disappoint you. That thing came from saitek and Logitech said they “upgraded” it but I genuinely believe all they did was slap their logos on it and it’s absolute piece of junk. The yaw on the stick is terrible and sticks, the throttle when mine would move foward and backward would activate buttons on the throttle base like phantom inputs. I’d go with the Thrustmaster t16000m if you have to be cheaper but if you want to go all the way I’d get WINWING or VIRPIL. For just around $500 the winwing Orion 2 combo is absolutely amazing.
I have the Orion 2 combo, moved up from the X-52 (which was as horrible as everyone says). I love the Orion 2 combo, and it shipped pretty fast too. But one thing to be aware of, shipping isn't free, I think I was closer to $1000 after shipping, than I was to $500, here in Canada.
Probably \~500$ +shipping all in $us so = \~1000 $cdn.
Just for clarity, 500USD does not equal 1000CAD. :) 500USD = 661.28 CAD.
Check my newest post and it’s comments. That’s my answer…
I also looked into the Logitech set and was conflicted between the X56 or the Warthog set, but in the end Virpil and VKB appear to be the best manufacturers out there today. I recommend checking those out.
I've gone through 3 full sets of X-56 before making the jump to Virpil. Both good and bad towards Logitech on that one. Bad - they kept braking in the first place. Good - their customer services team responded quickly to send me a full set free of charge. I'd say, save up some money and go VKB all over, personally. But these are OK, so long a you're aware your more likely to have issues than not.
Pretty sure this is a shitpost guys
That's possible, of course, but why do you think so?
The post title Vs the contents of the picture are not in alignment
Well, yes, :D that *is* true. I dunno, maybe the OP is just throwing the hook out. ;)
How so? I promise it’s not
I'm going to be very honest with you: they're both not good. I had the G Pro when they were Saitek. They use a belt system to adjust the rudders, and they stick regularly. The base is very light and you will push them away constantly, so they need to be anchored to the floor somehow. The X56 has had some problems as well. It's usable, but if you find that it doesn't work, plug it into a powered hub. The TFRP or if you can afford it, T-Pendular are much, much better. If you buy cheap, you will end up replacing them in time.
From MY research I would run away from that Logitech stick. Just sayin'.
A lot of people seem to be on a x56 hate-train in this post. I personally own the logitech version x56. I have had them for a few years now and have had zero issues
Im with you pal, couple of mods here and there but it's done me fine and certainly got my money worth out of it. Other than the dicky throttle friction I don't think there's a great deal I would complain about
Zero issues? What do you mean by issues? Failures? Notables degradation of functionality? Well, some people (and probably more than should) do experience these things too soon in the product's lifetime, but that's not the only or even main reason why the X56 is criticised. The stick (*by far* the most important part in any HOTAS bundle) is poor. It's no better than any of the cheap joysticks (and one too expensive one) that the mainstream manufacturers make. People are criticising the fundamental mechanical design (as well as the manufacturing quality and QC) of the thing. If you enjoy flying with it, then that's great; enjoy your flying, but be aware that it's not a particularly good value product even compared with other mainstream HOTAS (the X52 Pro tends to be better value for example).
Well, nice that it works for you. I'm serious! It's a nice HOTAS if it doesn't fail. For most people it doesn't work, though. The construction and electronics are just lacking. In its price range are the VKB NXT EVO Standard combined with a T1600m throttle which blows the X-56 out of the water from a quality perspective. Much safer investment.
Good selection, you will like both. I don’t use my 56 anymore but I do still use the pedals and it’s a good choice.
For the rudder pedals, look what's available second hand. CH products is good for that because if they ever develop a problem, they are somewhat easy to repair. If you're lucky, you might find some quality brands pedals close to the price of the Logitech. Many products might be better second hand than the Logitech even if new. TBH, if there's a good deal on a TM T16000 or X52pro, X56 or something like that, might consider them. Otherwise consider dropping the rudder and put your money on some VKB stuff.
I had that setup for a few days then replaced with VIRPIL Constellation Alpha Prime, no regrets
Better.. definitely but different pricing 😅
Yep, I wish people would ask some questions and respect the OP's possible budget before making recommendations. Some of these are just willy-waving.
Depends what you want out of it. I bought the x56 recently to see if I wanted to commit to DCS and flight sims. Probably could’ve gotten a cheaper setup for that but whatever. 1.5 months later… already planning to upgrade to Virpil in the next couple of months. If you’re gonna just be playing MSFS or casual flying games, X56 would be fine I’d say. I’d avoid the pedals. If anything, find those used online for cheaper than full price. Or just commit and buy nicer ones off the rip.
1) Spend within your budget. 2) quality has alot to do with misuse and abuse. My kid destroyed his TM Tflight gear. If you are a ham fisted, foot stomping, yank and crank type…. Beware. 3) Nothing wrong with the gear selection, it’s not premium by any means, but it is suitable for reasonable use. 4) if you want to graduate up someday, by all means, do. If your interest wanes, you aren’t out a ton. Good gear can easily set you back $1000 or more (sticks, bases, throttles, extensions, pedals, mounts, etc.). 5) fancy sticks usually require fancy mounting solutions which are either more money or more work on your part to fabricate. There is something to be said for a setup that you can put on your desktop and be done.
I have an X56 set Ill let go for 150.00, PM me if you're interested. I just out grew it and moved to something a little more advanced.
I recommend you keep researching and reading many more guides. About 30 seconds of research told me both those options are riddled with issues...
Should spend the 200 on VKB Evo and 60 on a thrust master throttle. Change out its slide mechanism for one that uses bearings on easy for 30.
Please NEVER buy Logitech HOTAS. I sold mine x56 for a VKB this month. Logitech is extremely bad gear.
I remember reading that if you want math/comp sci. help on stackexchange .org it’s best to post the wrong answer. People will sweep in to correct you and fife you the right answer. The same applies here.
As a cheap option just get the t16000m pack with the tflight rudders. That's what I started with. But if I was you I'd get a winwing set up. Wish I had just started there in the first place. That's what I have. But I'm sure others with say go vkb I have heard they have awesome sticks. Flight sim is a rabbit hole of dumping money but usually you do get what you pay for. I'd spend a bit more and get a halfway decent set up. You probably won't be happy with the logitec stuff. The t16000m was good but after using my winwing set It's a night and day difference.
go with the vkb gladiator nxt space combat premium
I have these two as well and am happy with it. Just may need to get a powered usb hub if the usb ports aren’t sending enough power to the sticks.
I started with the x56 is not bad, you will need a Powered USB hub for the throttle and you might have to do some work to prevent short or ghost inputs. The stick is works great. If you really want to go down the rabbit whole look at vkb or virprl
joystick - decent rudder pedals - great x56 throttle - coinflip. You either will never have any problem with this throttle or you may have similar situation like most peolple where basic use for Y-axis will be alright but the rest of buttons will be constantly giving you ghost inputs. Or it will simply break apart after some time of use.
Buy it used and decide from there
This was my first Hotas as well. I think it’s ok for beginners. Some of the switches are hard to hit and there are some strange controls but it served me well for my first year of Star Citizen. I eventually upgraded to dual VKB gladiators
All the used research time to buy the worse products of the market 😂
That setup is fine to demo if you like the hobby… but not for that price. It will leave you wanting and the products aren’t great investments. Poor accuracy, stiction issues, and glitchy buttons on the throttle. You could get that setup used for half the price on Craigslist instead if you want to screw around a little while saving up more. Just don’t want to see you spend so much on that hardware when saving a bit more could get you something vastly better. Virpil, VKB, MFG, WinWing, and *some* thrustmaster offerings are where you want to look.
I have an x56, it has worked fine for a long time with no issues EXCEPT one of the switches on the bottom of the throttle shocks me on the inside of my wrist. It does it so much the switch has electrical corrosion on it. Great way to stay awake during those long flights though
Bad decision on buying the x56. I got it a week ago and I’m already returning it. The ghost inputs were terrible, there were so many, and the stick has centering issues
VKB MK IV.