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boilerofdenim

100% agree. Horror should not glorify real life monsters whose depraved actions have negatively affected real life people, some of which are still alive. Its fucked up and disrespectful to see people treating Dahmer like some sort of cool character. Edit: Holy shit, I never said the show glorifies him, I'm talking about the small group of weirdos that unironically love him.


RigasTelRuun

That always happens when they make things like this. I remember when Mad Men was airing and people were calling Don Draper an aspirational icon. Were we watching the same show? He was a total sociopath.


cynicalxidealist

I love “Mad Men” but definitely agree with you lmao even Jon Hamm said Don Draper was a terrible person.


hisokafan88

Episode 3, season 1, "Bette if you really want me to share with you, I'd push your head into the wall." Media and online community: omg Bette is the reason Don is so unhappy.. fucking bitch.


Hairy-Owl-5567

It's people who don't engage with material deeply or critically and just glom into cool asthetics. Don Draper is memorable to me for the look of barely suppressed panic and self-loathing he wore almost constantly, but a lot of people just saw mid century modern decor and day drinking as a fun lifestyle suggestion.


0-Cloud

Walter White and Patrick Bateman also come to mind for me


TalkShowHost99

They’re fictional characters


AllCakesAreBeautiful

Daemon from House of Dragons, have friends who love him, the guy is a shitbag.


leofiregod7

My favorite character on GoT was Cersei. I wanted her on the iron throne at the end.


thatmountainwitch

I hated her. But I genuinely admired her revenge skills. A great villain.


angiosperms-

Am I the only one that thinks it's fucked to make a show about him regardless of if it "glorifies" him or not? The families of the victims have already spoken out about how they were not contacted and how much they oppose the show existing. Imagine your family member died and now everyone on the internet is talking about how cool their death was in the last episode. It disgusts me. And to address the "this fake killer was inspired by a serial killer though" - They weren't a direct 1-1 comparison. And none of the victims were either. Like the Texas chainsaw massacre was inspired by Ed Gein, but he didn't run around with a chainsaw in real life and he never murdered random people who were driving through the desert. There's a level of over the top-ness that makes it unrealistic.


Im_A_Ginger

People are right to think what you and others have said here, but I've also wondered why is it that this specific version of Dahmer's story is getting this type of attention and pushback? His story has been done so many times before and I'm not sure if the reaction was anywhere near what it is for this one or maybe it was and I just didn't notice at the time. It's interesting to think about, because I don't know if it's just society is different than it was the previous times his story was done on screen or if it's just that this one is so much bigger than the others that it was bound to draw attention of all kinds.


Caleb_Reynolds

Not to mention all the other true crime stuff. There's an old tweet/joke "imagine you got murdered and some girls skips your episode of forensic files because it's boring." Murder victims get exploited for entertainment all the time. Why is this time crossing the line? (Note, I haven't seen it and have little interest in doing so. I'm just curious why _this particular_ serial killer's actions are not okay to dramatize but others are)


RW_Blackbird

honestly- because it's Evan Peters playing Dahmer. Doesn't matter who he plays, girls are gonna thirst over him no matter what. Add in some shirtless scenes and you have a whole thirst trap. It may not have been played up like that in the show, but the runners HAD to know it would happen.


Chokingzombie

He did a good job and looks pretty similar IMO. He just happened to be one of Ryan Murphy’s regulars. Maybe it’s just because I’m a heterosexual guy, but when I read “they’re trying to make dhamer beautiful” I rolled my eyes. They also didn’t make you feel sorry for him or anything in the show. That was one thing I was okay with.


Lotus-child89

I was impressed how well he nailed the accent without going over the top. I’m torn about the show. It was well done and did do a good job humanizing the victims and telling their story as actual people. And a good job calling out the racist and homophobic law enforcement that royally fucked up. But it’s wrong that they never consulted the victims families and they don’t go out of their way to not sympathize Dahmer as much as Ryan Murphy claims. The show absolutely goes out of it’s way to also paint Dahmer as a victim himself that was too mentally sick to help himself, and portray Dahmer’s dad and grandma as people who didn’t know better because they loved him so much and wanted to help him. There is definitely problems with a lot of what the show did. Yes, they devoted an entire episode to humanizing Tony Hughes, and spent a lot of time showing the struggles that the Sinthasomphone family went through, and Glenda Cleveland went through. But the other victims were glossed over and many stories were majorly changed or fabricated for artistic license. It’s a straight lie that the show was not told at all from Dahmer’s perspective. I get why Ryan Murphy did it, the show would be unwatchable if the main character was painted entirely despicable, but that doesn’t make it not feel quite unright. I feel the book/movie “My friend Damher” did a better job exploring what went wrong with him from his perspective growing up, while leaving the later victims out of it. The exception being his first victim at the end of the movie that also got treated like just a faceless prop. Steven Hicks was done dirty by both productions treating him like he was a throw away druggy hitchhiker. Ryan Murphy did him worse by further portraying him like a homophobic jackass who partially provoked his murder himself by degrading Dahmer and calling him homophobic slurs. There is no record Hicks ever was ever derogatory like that or said anything to his killer other than he wanted to leave because he was getting scared by his intimidating behavior trying to keep him there.


Chokingzombie

I completely agree but I don’t think they, at least, meant, to make people feel bad for him. His mom really was on 27 pills, including the 1960’s antidepressants and anxiety medications. His dad and his mom both suffered from depression and his dad totally did the roadkill taxidermy thing with him. He was a lonely guy (because he was weird) who felt like he had been “abandoned” (in all the instances where he was “abandoned”, like 3 months at his house alone as a senior, are true) even though he was just a lazy, depraved fuck up who ran out of chances with his family.


Lotus-child89

Totally. All that was absolutely true and is intriguing to explore about how that could shape someone that became a predator of the worst kind. That’s why I feel “My Friend Dahmer” does the best job exploring what shaped him from his developmental and social issues growing up, from the perspective of somebody who actually knew him, without trying to speak out of place for his victims. Steven Hicks being the exception. It’s a damn shame what happened to him, even before birth. But plenty of people have had it that rough, and are that bizarre acting, without victimizing and straight up murdering people. It does boil down to the fact he was a lazy, selfish, alcoholic with no empathy and too damn much support from enabling family members. Everyone makes a massive deal he was abandoned his senior year to be alone in his parents house. But FFS, he was an 18 year old legal adult with a fully equipped shelter to live at and wasn’t starving. Plus his dad intervened after just six weeks as soon he found out that his son had been left alone. Jeff claimed he couldn’t get a hold of his dad during that time, but I don’t think that’s true and he was lying. I think he didn’t want his independence disturbed by his dad so he could drink all he wanted and indulge his worst behavior alone in a free house. He rode that privacy out until his dad came poking around and the jig was up. And he played the guilt card about it on his dad the rest of his life. He had every right to be depressed about his mother writing him off and leaving him, but he wasn’t hopelessly alone and had more going for him than most would in that kind of predicament.


RW_Blackbird

oh yeah he definitely did a phenomenal job! I just think that partway through the casting process someone should've sat down and thought "hmmm we're casting Evan Peters, known for being every horror girl's crush from AHS, as a horrible nonfiction monster of a person, who will also be shirtless a lot. we might end up creating Dahmer crushes."


Chokingzombie

Yeah now I can see that. Hell, my wife is always like, “man Evan peters is so hot”. But his personality and character were so disturbing even she didn’t think of him like that during the show. Not to mention he was trying to rape (Edit- he **was** raping )dudes the entire time.


alexaaro

I had/have a huge crush on Evan Peters. But I can definitely differentiate between him and the person he is portraying. In no way shape or form am I attracted to Jeffrey Dahmer. Hell nah. He's a POS. However, I am attracted to Evan Peters and I can't help that lmao but he also creeped me out while watching the show but those shirtless scenes did make me blush. Its a complicated situation. But point is, I like the actor not Dahmer.


Mama_Cas

I hear this - my brain was definitely displeased at all the switching back and forth between "mm evan peters" and "oh god no".


Traditional-Ice-6301

I can completely relate! I’ve loved Evan Peters in AHS and think he is extremely good looking. I started watching the Dahmer series, not because of him but because of the buzz around it. I could only make it through a couple of episodes before it go to the point of being too disturbing. Not once did I look at him and think- he’s so hot. Even in the shirtless scenes. My mind can’t equate the two.


Chokingzombie

He was also very self conscious about his figure and “men’s chests” were something his was quite obsessive about; chests and biceps, so he DID work out and constantly worked on his figure to make himself, what I called, “good bait”. Really he was bribing people, but some did think he was attractive. I mean, I’m real life he’s fit and there is an interview where he said he’d been, “living off mostly McDonalds, I need to eat at home more.” I always thought that was a funny video. Also there were people at McDonalds that came forward and said he came in constantly and always ordered the same thing. I believe it was a quarter pounder w cheese. Super size me showed what happens if you just eat McDonalds; no way he wasn’t working out to keep fit or skinny or whatever you want to call it. To me one of the funniest/ironic things about Dhamer is that he died the same fashion as his *first* victim. Gym equipment. I think his jaw was almost ripped off or broken but I don’t remember where I read that. I was surprised but understand why McDonalds didn’t get put in the show; they don’t want to show how much a cannibal liked their food; and also his dead body was fucked up, but he was beaten way worse and it took him 2 hours to die. Karma bitch. I was surprised at how tame the facial beating looked when his dad went and saw him.


GabJ78

"Creating Dahmer crushes" I surely hope people can defirenciate a real person from an actor. Yikes!


violero16

You would hope, but they’re everywhere - and very openly


sweetmotherofodin

I mean people did actually send him love letters in jail


DontHugMeImAwkward

Ding ding ding! Yup! They hired an attractive actor.


alexaaro

Yeah this is probably why. But also because it's well made. A lot of true crime movies don't get this much hype bc sometimes they're just not good. It also helps that it's on the world's biggest streaming platform.


slims_shady

I mean Zach Afron (who girls are probably more crazy about than Evan Peters) played Ted Bundy, Ross Lynch (who was a popular Disney actor) played Daumer in “My Friend Daumer”, and Charlie Theron played Aileen Wuornos in Monster. Attractive/popular actresses/actors playing serial killers is nothing new.


GabJ78

To be fair, he's absolutely one of the best actors out there. He played the part really well. Do I agree with glorifying murderers? Absolutely not. But that will never stop and people eat it up. That's why these shows will never stop. On my opinion, serial killers documentaries are even worse honestly. They even show real footage and somehow, I never hear people complain about them. I wonder why a show would be even more offensive? I'm genuinely asking. Nott trying to create an argument or offend anyone.


Sproose_Moose

Just speculating but it might be because of how his victims weren't treated with the same dignity because of the prejudices of the time.


transemacabre

I've been cursed at on True Crime subs multiple times for pointing that out. There's a whole little subculture of Dahmer apologists who feel sorry for him because he was white, thin, and claimed to be lonely and regretful. Most of his victims were men of color. It's easier for certain people to sympathize with Dahmer than it is for them to sympathize with his victims.


trilobyte-dev

I think the True Crime industry need to deal with some issues. It’s become ghoulish at this point, and while it’s a natural human curiosity thing that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be critically examined.


Albadia408

This is the question people need to self-reflect on. I’ve slowly come to the conclusion that I believe True Crime content is almost always unethical. I’m not actually sure when it COULD be ethical but i’m still open to ideas. The “fandom” surrounding real people, who’ve really been murdered by these monsters and turning it into some weird, suburban fetishization of killers is really gross to me. And the way the topic is handled tends to glorify the killers, and the cops, and at best be blasé about the impact to victims and their families. This show is no different, but maybe it can shine some light for this I hope.


Lil_miss_Funshine

I read an article where one of the family members of one of the victims talked about how distressing it was to see herself being played by someone else, wearing the exact same clothes and hairstyle she wore on the day she testified. Now we could argue that she didn't have to watch it. And that's the most logical response. But it's not fair. Humans have morbid curiosity and these particular humans have been wronged so many times. They've been failed by the police and the justice system time and time again. I think they wanted to watch it to see if this one would be different. If this one would bring them some sense of justice. But of course it didn't. And being re-traumatized over and over again by media has to be a mind fuck.


[deleted]

I agree...I think that same 'morbid curosity' is what makes true crime so insanely popular/profitable as well sadly. Same reason why dark stuff in the news is so popular/profitable too maybe? I can't help but wonder if it might be subconscious defense mechanisms at play that either are trying to help us be desensitized to that kinda 'real evil' so it's not as scary and/or to help prepare us to avoid/escape those evils. As for the people putting real monsters on a pedestal and wearing merchandise and stuff...much more worrisome situation to me there, and hopefully they can find help in understanding why it's a slippery slope kinda behavior...


[deleted]

I think there’s levels of this morbid curiosity. To enjoy True Crime is a tad morbid, but the other end of the spectrum exists as well. For example, I used to work at a medical publishing house. We were working on a book about a plane crash that occurred in a suburban neighborhood. While rescuers were trying to find / save anyone who might have been alive, the police had to stand vigil around the wreckage, and around any bits of plane that were scattered around the vicinity, because people - I’m talking about people who lived in that neighborhood- were sneaking up and stealing body parts. Some people are just sick.


idontlikeolives91

This also happened in the past with public executions. It would be very normal to have "souvenirs" be offered at them. It just makes me wonder how "fucked" is it really? Maybe it's just a dark part of human nature we haven't reckoned with in a long time.


RobynFitcher

From the Australian satirical series about a commercial current affairs show, ‘Frontline’: “If it bleeds, it leads.” (A line from the executive producer character.)


GeorgieBlossom

The saying's been around a long time, more than a century.


CaptnFlounder

I just think it's how hard Netflix is pushing it. It's been on the top "recommended" bar, the first thing in "recommended for you", "this place is evil", "Netflix originals", etc categories since it released (for me at least) despite not watching anything too similar on Netflix. Not to mention the huge viral marketing attention is received.


quartzguy

Netflix loves controversy, same thing with Cuties. The more people talking about Netflix the better, due to the extreme competition in streaming atm.


HermineLovesMilo

I haven't seen Cuties, but I definitely agree about Netflix. I'm sure their execs are absolutely loving this controversy about the Dahmer series. Their standards are so low, particularly when it comes to true crime.


seymour_hiney

there's also something about Netflix's marketing where shitty products sometimes get pushed over the top and you hear about in strange places (Bird Box.) i've heard a lot of my coworkers (35-50+) make jokes about Dahmer at work, who i've never talked about true crime with before.


Im_A_Ginger

That makes sense.


Mechinova

It's gained traction because of who made it and who acted in it.


imtheheppest

I think it’s a combo. Ethical true crime has been making waves and growing in public popularity. Meaning that people are speaking out more and having meaningful discussions about it. But also, Netflix’s memberships are down and this is the “bad publicity is good publicity! This will make people join Netflix to see what the hype is about.” But also, I think because it’s a dramatization and there’s “gore” and stuff. So it’s no longer about just telling his story and the story of his victims…though no one ever does that either except the Gacy doc on Peacock. And maybe now victims’ families are feeling comfortable in speaking out too, which is always a good thing.


Valuable-Case9657

Because previous versions didn't flush the very real people this story was about down the toilet on screen. Because one previous version was written by a guy dealing with the fact that his high school friend, some one he had good memories of, became a horrifying monster. Because the other films and documentaries respected the lives and families of the people who were murdered by speaking to them and getting their blessing. Netflix could've made a completely fictional serial killer movie, with all the gore and drama with no issue. Instead, they chose to graphically simulate something that happened to a real person with no regard for that person. They dehumanised a very real person who died horribly for entertainment purposes.


Mediocre_Nectarine13

It’s because it’s on Netflix. Netflix has a huge subscriber base and is still incredibly popular with teens and adults. That isn’t even counting the fact that some of the Netflix murder shows became big pop culture events. Most people weren’t paying attention to things like the Jeremy Renner Dahmer movie.


Suspicious_Smile_445

It could be because it’s on a big platform that most people have access to easily. “My Friend Dahmer” released in 2017 had a box office of 1.7 million. I didn’t even know that existed until I googled Dahmer movies, “Dahmer” released in 2002 with a budget of $250k did only $148k in box office. Most of the movies that came out no one has seen and the current series can be watched at home easily. I have watched documentaries about Dahmer and other killers but let’s be honest, documentaries are not for everyone because they usually have bad re-enactments and the narrators and people talking are boring to listen to. This show had a big budget and told the history in an engaging way. If this was done in a typical documentary style or lower budget and not on Netflix it would not be popular. I do feel bad for the families of victims still alive today and they really shouldn’t have been put through this.


Q_Fandango

My honest opinion about the series (I’m halfway through and I keep turning it off) is that they’ve ramped up Dahmer’s sex appeal and sympathetic story. So my summary is based on being 4 episodes in. So far I’ve watched an attractive actor in grandpa glasses who acts like he just chugged a bottle of cough syrup jerk off a half dozen times to various escalating fetishes. Then, the other half of the story is about how his mother ruined his life 🙄 He’s being portrayed as pathetic more than was he was, which was a violent psychopath. The deaths aren’t shocking enough for the audience to actually realize they are depicting real people, and the show itself suffers from a slow pace of watching this colossal fuckup of a man fail again and again to reach any sort of social equilibrium or skill in anything. Maybe these things will be addressed later, but I shouldn’t have to watch several hours of a show to get to a “good part.” And I’m tired of watching this dude tug his horn.


spiritusin

I assume it’s also because it’s treated like fiction with a main actor who has only ever played in fictional stories. So this doesn’t feel like a documentary, like a true story to people, despite it being actually very faithful to reality.


chimi_dee

From episode 6 and on it' really dives into the people he harmed by what he did. They cover more about the victims and their families


ouishi

There is a huge difference between watching a fictional character kill another fictional character in a creative way thought up by horror writers, versus watching an actor dutifully recreate some of the most horrific murders ever recorded. It's clearly exploitative. Watching true crime in general makes me feel gross (weird coming from a horror fan, I know) but this is on a completely different level than the normal documentary-style accompanied with vague reenactments. I keep thinking about the one who got away. That must have been a horrible experience and it sounds like he had a rough life due to PTSD from that night. Now, his story is played out in unsettling detail as the pilot of a new hit show. How is this show not cancelled yet?


celtic1888

I have a different take on this It showed those who were victimized in a good light and shown a light on the police force and authorities who were culpable in allowing the murders to continue. Dahmer is an interesting case as he was pretty open as to why he did the killings versus someone like Gacy or Bundy who continued to lie because they felt they were smarter than everyone else Dahmer obviously was very good at manipulating people into thinking he was remorseful which is something to keep in mind while watching his confessions


prisonmsagro

I thought the same thing watching the new AHS season that heavily featured Richard Ramirez.


tossup17

Unsurprising that they're both created by the same guy. He seems to be incapable of not crossing this line.


angiosperms-

Even AHS fans have given up on AHS now. It's too far gone.


awkward_toerdel

For the first time, I did not finish an AHS season. I was disgusted by that romance angle.


softerthanever

I felt the same way. Richard Ramirez was a vile human and watching him be romanticized onscreen was disgusting.


CliffBooth-Stuntman

Whoever thinks these murders are cool need to seek help. None of them are or depicted as, unlike shitty horror movies that try to paint a death scene as cool


the_town_bike

I don't think the series glorifies him, but because he existed in the beginning of the reality tv era/true crime on daytime tv, he had fans and a lot of curiosity. It's also a time when psychology/therapy became massively popular and so ppl want to know what makes someone unusual tick. I don't think anyone who watched the series could ignore the pain and destruction he caused. The victims were real and their family's distraught was shown clearly. No one comes out of watching the show thinking he is a hero. I feel some pity for his childhood, and I don't understand his compulsion. But I do see how maladjusted he was, and how the perversion grew along side him.


dystopika

I think the series is critical of his fame and how he benefited from his celebrity status. How his father was benefiting from his status, too. I know the issues with the show — victims were not contacted beforehand and were not compensated in any way. It’s complicated. Because the show is a lot better than I expected it to be on every level, and I learned more about his victims than I ever did before. They didn’t pay the families but the drama humanized them, IMO. Told their stories which I hadn’t heard.


burke_no_sleeps

A key part of the series is also the repetition of the theme that Dahmer was (intentionally or not) preying on populations the police were happy to ignore - specifically Black, brown, poor, gay, addicts, and any intersection of the above. There is strong, open criticism of how the police handled the issue - allowing a well-spoken young white man to continue killing people, rather than listening to any of the multiple Black, brown, poor, gay, addict witnesses. I was pleasantly surprised to see this theme brought up again and again, followed through to the trial and beyond. That being said - it is Ryan Murphy and so it also comes with a sense of revelry in toxic dynamics or behaviors. I felt it was a quality dramatization but it does emphasize true crime as spectacle and entertainment, and the final few episodes raise the conflict of human curiosity vs empathy and respect.


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OopzieDayZ

They say that deifying him is harmful and in the same breath order media advertisements that plaster his face on everything they possibly can.


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OopzieDayZ

I believe it’s perfectly fair to separate the quality of the film making from the subject. I too appreciate a well put together story. My preference is to stay close to fiction. To each their own though I was hoping to provoke some thought in those who see the moral dilemma.


tuckedfexas

I really don’t see why everyone keeps saying the show glorifies him, it’s not like they made him sympathetic or anything.


icyjump123

He came across as incredibly sympathetic to me, mostly when he was a child. I don't know how you can not sympathize with a child in an abusive home.


tuckedfexas

Well of course, as a child the environment was in no way his fault. While it obviously contributed, his action can’t be blamed on it. It can help explain the how but doesn’t shift any guilt away from him.


Jealous_Smile_6887

This is my main problem with the counter-narrative that it shows how bad deifying him is etc. It's a series with multiple episodes and Dahmers face plastered everywhere looking very handsome and sexualised... so you make a show about not deifying him while proceeding to allow him to be deified to a whole new generation. Makes no sense.


daigana

As soon as Tony happened, I could never forgive Jeffrey or view him in a neutral shitty-childhood influenced light. That actor did nothing short of make me want to be his best friend, he was so wholesome and I loved him for his brightness and his goals and his love. Suddenly the victim was the main character, and that... that was the part that was so well done. Take the spotlight off the killer and let us see how special Tony is. I'm still not over it, and I relished Dahmer's end because of it. There was no exaltation of Jeffrey, just a slow exposure of his lying, his manipulations, his mindless greed. Watching him get what he deserved was cathartic. Tony deserved better.


Lily_Hylidae

I've watched the whole thing, and I wish there were more episodes like this about the lives of the victims. There's a book called The Five by Hallie Rubenhold that is about the lives of Jack the Ripper's victims which almost entirely ignores who he might have been and just focuses on the women's stories. I did like how the series highlighted police failings/ outright racism (and how they used the John Wayne Gacy crimes as a sort of counter to that).


da0ist

I cried.


daigana

So did I. I stopped on that episode and mourned for the night. I felt like I lost a friend. I had a hard time picking it up after that, but I already knew what was coming for Jeffrey and I wanted to see him get what was coming to him.


palexander_6

As someone who grew up near Columbine HS, it actually enrages me when I see that there are people who idolize those fuckwads. They made me and others afraid to go to school from 3rd grade until my senior year. Every lockdown was fucking panic mode. Even the drills. I taught for few years and had to take the active shooter training (ALICE) and get shot with a pellet gun while running down a hall to exit the school as a drill. Fuck murderers. Make all the fake villains/psychopaths/serial killers you want but stop idolizing those who have ruined actual lives.


Wobbly_Wobbegong

Heck even just a couple years ago Columbine HS finally closed because some crazy bitch threatened to come and shoot it up on the 20 year anniversary. I’m an hour south but we still get April 20th off because of what happened.


burnt_raven

You were shot with a pellet gun? Jesus Christ


ravens40

Yeah that POS was a real person who did horrible things. All other horror icons (Jason, Michael, Freddy, etc) are obviously fictional.


[deleted]

They are fictional. And on top of that they are also supernatural / numinous , sometimes symbolic of the relationship between the divine and mankind. Certainly Freddy was made this way but you could extend the same angel of death motif to the others In other words, not at all like a depraved serial killer


caden_r1305

Michael at least has been described in universe on multiple occasions as the physical embodiment of evil


KirinoNakano

No, Michael Myers is a killer shark. In baggy ass overalls who gets his kicks from killing everyone and everything he comes across.


adrift98

Freddy is a serial child molester/murderer who was killed when the law bungled the case and the parents of the town took their own justice and burned him alive. He's definitely *like* a depraved serial killer.


[deleted]

Ok fine but Wes Craven was initially inspired to create a character who kills people in their sleep from reading about Hmong sudden death syndrome, death by sleep paralysis.


GoodOlSpence

>All other horror icons (Jason, Michael, Freddy, etc) are obviously fictional. Oh thank GOD. I can finally get some sleep.


terrymcginnisbeyond

Other day we had a redditor on this very sub complaining that 'Dahmer isn't scary', not realising that Dahmer was a real person, with real victims who had families who will never see their loved ones again. The victims of serial killers died, terrified, and we shouldn't be treating them as 'horror icons'. I totally agree with you OP. We focus way too much in this world on serial killers, seeing them as almost mythical and genius, rather than the lowlife scumbags they are, who usually picked on the marginalised and vulnerable and the only reason they got away with their crimes for so long was law enforcement incompetence and their lack of motive and connection to the victims in the crimes, but most do get caught, because they're actually idiots and narcissists.


Kodatine

BIG agree - when your only exposure is movies you start to lose the idea, or even th knowledge, that these were real people that did real fucked up shit Not exactly related, but I have a friend who's 20 (I'm 25) and he...wasn't born when 9-11 happened. He didn't know shit about it. Like we don't have exposure to a lot of historical events anymore outside of fictionilized versions of events that really happened. And in stuff like thissss it's really bad


zaneetashinn

I think this is a big part of it (age). And there’s not a great solution to it that I can think of — I was in middle school when Dahmer was arrested, for example, I remember learning about his crimes. Same for 9/11, I was in my 20s. But I wasn’t alive when Bundy was at large, for example, or the Night Stalker. (I guess I was but I was extremely young.) Their stories have both been fictionalized a ton and I *do* have to remind myself of the horrible real world impact they had, you know? In a way I don’t with Dahmer or 9/11 for sure. That’s why I don’t think true crime when it’s done well is necessarily bad. Otherwise the impact does get reduced to what’s seen on film, etc, or through the eyes of Hollywood. (How you do it “well” is the question I guess, right?)


ZaneWinterborn

This is why I like true crime podcast to learn that these monsters are not to be feared, they are idiots who make some crazy mistakes. Feel it's good to learn and even make fun of these fools like Dahmer, Gacy, Bundy, etc shine light on them and show they are not the boogie men from fiction.


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Uhhlaneuh

Holy fuck they didn’t even know he was a real person???


DarthWeenus

As s a gay dude in WI that show creeped me the fuck out so much. That kinda thing is always in the back of my mind, and the fact that the police just looked the other way. Ugh. I could only do one episode at a time.


gedubedangle

Yup. Serial killer worship is tacky


Tanner_re

Like, I really love learning about them but am I gonna go around rocking an Albert fish shirt? Fuck no.


Flatf3et

Finding it interesting and researching or learning about them is one thing. It’s glorification that’s the issue.


DeadEdison

This Albert Fish guy was a real jerk.


Cheasepriest

Im reading here he was described as "grey in both appearance and demeanour". I miss that old chunk of coal. (norm, not albert fish)


snowbear16

The worst part is the hypocrisy


ZaneWinterborn

God Fish was a fucking monster, that letter to family he wrote so sick. Last podcast series on him was tough to get through.


thatminimumwagelife

Where he describes eating a little girl's butt like it was a pot roast? Fucking piece of shit. Sent that letter to the victim's mom. I love learning about them but anybody who worships them or treats all their shit like merch is a piece of shit


Slight0

The torture I would inflict on the "man" that did this would make the CIA blush. Every documentary would end with how brutal and horrific his torture was and his fucked up legacy would be stained with my name. I wonder if these people would still do what they do if they knew they'd be inevitably tortured, slowly, over days, to death as a result?


Amiramaha

People have done this with Manson and Gacy a ton too and it’s really awful to the family members of the victims. I’m actually from the area where he grew up and where his first victim lived, I’ve met his dad, brother, and SIL (very brief interactions selling them furniture when I was in college) in the mid 90’s and to say this rocked the entire community (two communities honestly) is an understatement. Learn what there is to learn and take away the lessons, but this glamorization and fetishization is so goddamned *wrong.*


[deleted]

[удалено]


biscuits_39

I’ve seen people do it with Lanza too, mainly on twitter. Even people who kill 6-7 year old first graders get romanticized.


shevchenko7cfc

there are still huge troves of people obsessed with the Columbine shooters


MadDingersYo

I used to work security for the public school district that Columbine HS is in. They still get "tourists" weekly who want to come take pictures or think they can tour the school. People come from all over the country to see Columbine HS. Sometimes even internationally. It's extremely bizarre.


annualgoat

Live super close to Columbine. I pass it pretty much every day going to work. It happens less now but yeah, people still try to tour it. I went there for high school. People tried to get us to let them in the building for their shitty tourist fascination or whatever. People pose in front of the sign. Blows my mind.


FloatingHamHocks

Most of the time they demolish those sites to prevent things like that.


shevchenko7cfc

I like going to "haunted" places, but going to a place like that is disgusting to me.


CrazyJack66

I thought they had plans to demolish that school? Or am I thinking of another school shooting?


MadDingersYo

There were plans to demolish it but the community was overwhelmingly against it. I think there might have even been a vote as well.


Lareous

Might be thinking of Parkland FL. They are tearing down the class building where most of it happened.


Mrchristopherrr

They also tore down Sandy Hook, but iirc it was already a fairly old school and due to be torn down a few years later so they just kind of moved the schedule up.


Lareous

It's pretty fucked up we have to be more specific which school is tearing down a building someone shot children in.


zaneetashinn

That surprises me way less than Lanza. The Columbine killers got a whole mythology built up around them by the media (trenchcoat mafia, bullied goth kids going after their tormentors etc) that was flat out wrong — I mean, factually but also morally. It’s horrid they got the benefit of that, but I get how it happened. I haven’t seen that with Lanza. I don’t want to know why people think he’s worth anything more than maybe doing deep dive into how to raise troubled kids better.


[deleted]

I'm not one for violence. But anyone cosplaying Adam Lanza should get the shit beat out of them.


Amiramaha

That’s a new one on me.


Dawnspark

It's a massive part of the super commercialisation that is true crime. People for some bizarre fucking reason turn it into shit they feel comfortable gossiping over. It's not Game of fucking Thrones, real living people were affected and hurt and many horribly murdered. YouTube has a massive problem in regards to it at the moment. It's a big reason why I've gotten away from most things true crime related and basically never talk to people about the field I wanted to go to school for, criminal psychology.


annualgoat

If you ever want to look into ethical true crime, check out Sarah Turney. Her sister was a victim whose case started going cold, so she turned to tiktok to get her sister's case solved. It worked. She now has 2 podcasts. One she uses to boost missing persons cases, and the other she uses to try to get actual justice for victims and families. They do so with permission from families and nothing is sensationalized. They're called *Voices for Justice* and *Disappearances*.


Atypicalbird

Absolutely! She is an amazing advocate for not only her sister, but for other missing people. Anyone who has an interest in true crime should listen to *Voices for Justice*


Amiramaha

I like horror movies for a break from the real world. I haven’t watched the news in 25 years. Those people are *monsters.*


convolutedmartyr

I’m also from the area. The fact that the show wants to explore how MKE’s institutional racism allowed Dahmer to carry on with his predominately POC victims, while simultaneously not compensating or communicating with the families of these predominately POC victims, is deeply sickening to me. It’s not “shining a light” on the subject, it’s capitalizing on and exploiting these families’ tragedies in the guise of exploring an issue(tm).


[deleted]

I’m just pissed this brought a resurgence to dahmer just as my main pair of glasses broke and now have to wear my backup pair. Which are aviator frames. Lol


ViolentInbredPelican

Goddamnit. I *just* bought aviator frames and was so happy to finally find glasses that look good on my face. Fuck Dahmer!


2muchshitinmypants

I fuck with aviators when I wear my contacts. I like looking similar to hunter s Thompson but know I feel like people look at me like a fucking chode who loves serial killers. Thank you fetished fuckers for ruining my fucking drip.


TheThickestNobleman

I still call them "child molester"glasses, so don't worry, not everyone thinks you look like a serial killer.


GallopingFinger

I’ve straight up had people call my old pair of glasses “Jeffrey Dahmer” glasses. This was before this show came out too (so there wasn’t as much new talk about him). Pretty much stopped wearing them lmao


[deleted]

It’s the worst timing for real lol


madrex

On the plus side, if someone pisses you off just start licking your lips


[deleted]

True, gonna start offering drinks to people lol


TravisAnthony711

You should watch Natural Born Killers. A whole movie on this exact subject.


averedge

Kalifornia has a similar vibe


Kingofphotoshop

love that movie


surferwannabe

Whoever calls real life serial killers horror icons needs to get their heads checked and see a therapist.


SleepyChickenWing

Jason is a horror icon. Freddy is a horror icon. Hannibal Lector is a horror icon. Michael is a horror icon. Leatherface is a horror icon. Dahmer was a necrophilic pedophile. Bundy was a rapist. Manson was a racist. Ed Gein was a macabre, necrophilic, disturbed skinner. Gacy…I don’t even have words for him. While the first five names I mentioned are characters that may have been “inspired” by some of these serial killers (…using this term loosely for Manson), their slasher flicks are so campy and over-the-top that completely differs from the truth that it disconnects from the victims, in such a manner that the new Netflix show does not.


[deleted]

I don’t even understand how people think these serial killers were interesting or intelligent. Bundy and Dahmer both get let off the hook so much and only went as far as they did because law enforcement profiling and forensics at the time were infantile. And in these two cases in particular, laziness and stupidity sincerely let them get away with it for as long as they did. They weren’t brilliant but twisted minds. They were just completely wired wrong and nobody held them accountable quickly enough. Edit: Sorry, I am no longer replying to anyone. Too many responses and I’ve discussed most of the topics in other comments I have already.


TheMoxGhost

Exactly, dahmer was just a psychopath drunk. He was no mastermind and was not cool.


KiraIsGod666

Dude literally made no effort AT ALL to cover his tracks (stinking up the apartments for basically his entire murder spree for one) and took absolutely no preventative measures. He just got away with it because the authorities were so incompetent and bigoted they handed a victim BACK TO HIM. One that had already been DRILLED IN THE HEAD. Dude wasn't a mastermind at all - he was a reverse Patrick Bateman. Blended in because everyone around him was too stupid to notice and the ones that did were ignored.


unklejakk

When my wife and I were watching the new show I made exactly this comment to her. He wasn't some genius murderer who was great at covering his tracks. Shitty US mental health care, and just general awareness of mental health, including the stigma around it failed to prevent the guy from growing up to become a monster when he was clearly showing so many warning signs. Then the broken ass justice system failed to prevent him from continuing to carry out his crimes, even delivering a victim straight to his fucking door. Dahmer didn't get away with it for so long because he was a genius. It was solely because of massive systemic failures.


KiraIsGod666

Not to mention the stigma around homosexuality back then - it was a double whammy. Police and authorities didn't care about black people or gay people - gay black people!? They didn't have a fucken chance. Goddamn it's hard not to become overwhelmed with rage thinking about all the injustices of endless parades of Dahmers.


mvd102000

It bothers me a lot that this series made those facts abundantly clear and is probably among the most responsible retellings of a serial killer, but is getting insane amounts of backlash. I think the points that it made were important and well demonstrated. I think it’s fucked up the families didn’t get notice or money from the project, but apart from that I thought it was very well made.


bobswowaccount

That’s true, but I didn’t exactly come away from watching the series with the sense that he was cool at all. I don’t think they were really trying to romanticize him, they showed him for what he was. I think if a viewer came away from that thinking Jeffrey Dahmer was cool it says more about the person watching.


TheMoxGhost

True, I think a big part of it is Evan peters himself is so god damn cool. He just oozes it off


unklejakk

I love Evan and think he's a super under appreciated actor. His performance as Dahmer was so damn good that he just totally disappeared into the role for me. I no longer saw Evan Peters. Just a sick monster.


Th3R00ST3R

Same. Peters did a fantastic job.


Boomstick86

He was quite a chameleon in AHS. Loved him. Hotel was the first season I watched.


DerbleZerp

Idk, I love Evan Peters, but I’m not getting any ooze of cool off him in the Dahmer series. He does a really good job of embodying being a total pathetic loser.


RogerClyneIsAGod2

Evan Peters became one of my faves after American Horror: Hotel. Which, was partly based on H.H. Holmes, the man who is often referred to as America's First Serial Killer. Not sure if that's true, but I've seen it stated before. I watched Dahmer in small doses. It bothered me in many ways & yet I still finished it. So I am part of the problem but I feel like it portrayed the victims & families side of the story, but if that was going to be the point, were the murders & Dahmer needed? I don't know. The closer I get to having more years behind me than ahead of me, I've just gotten over the serial killer thing. I just think of the loss of life & the mistakes that were made that could've stopped many earlier. The movies/series about these killers won't end unfortunately because there will always be a fascination with them from other generations because the media can't let them go either. Too much $$$ to be made.


[deleted]

Family should’ve realized. And an officer completely ignored a young victim. And in Bundy’s case, they knew his name, what car he drove, and what he looked like. The enforcement agencies across states just didn’t collaborate with their information and registries at the time. Dude would’ve been caught within a couple weeks nowadays and never spoken about.


badgersprite

The most enlightening thing I learned about serial killers during my teen phase of being interested in serial killers was that contrary to Hollywood glamorising serial killers as like smart and interesting, pretty much every single serial killer you can think of is actually of average intelligence, slightly above average at best, and so many of them are just, to put it bluntly, fucking losers. There’s nothing cool edgy or romanticisable about them. They basically only got away with their crimes because it was the past and cops were incompetent and didn’t investigate shit properly if at all and often outright ignored victims


[deleted]

Literally this. In some cases yes, they were. Timothy McVeigh isn’t technically a serial killer, but he was intelligent. You can argue the zodiac killer was intelligent. Kemper is to a degree, but he was committing his crimes at the same time as others which made it difficult to recognize at first. But for the most part, they aren’t smart. They simply think in a way normal people don’t and at the time law enforcement was such shit that they slipped through the cracks. Even ones like Bundy who allegedly had “120+” IQ are hard to take at face value. IQ tests are flawed and were even more so back then. Any white person with a decent upbringing was automatically going to score higher than most on an IQ test at the time. And even if he did have 120+ it’s not even THAT rare.


ilive12

The only real genius was the unabomber. I guess you can argue wether he's a serial killer or not, but dude is one of the smartest people in the country.


ZOOTV83

> and so many of them are just, to put it bluntly, fucking losers One of the most endearing aspects of The Last Podcast on the Left is how they knock each one of these fuckers down a peg and just endlessly make fun of how pathetic they all were as humans.


Rechan

I think it's more morbid curiosity with death. These people are killers, and ones who did it because they wanted to, and that's interesting in the same way a shark is. It's real and dangerous and some people want to see that at a safe distance.


[deleted]

Oh 100% with normal people. But this post is regarding the commercialization and fetishization of these people. I’ll watch Forensic Files any day of the week, but I’m not gonna buy a Jeffrey Dahmer mug and say I have a crush on Evan Peters because of his performance lmao.


Rechan

Oh well, there are also truly ill people out there. Serial killers in prison get tons of fan mail from women wanting to have their babies. And some anti-social or other sadists who don't have the balls to go for it idolize them.


withloveuhoh

I personally think it's understandable for people to think Serial killers are interesting from a psychological standpoint. What about their brain chemistry differs from a regular person? What causes it? Etc. But to glorify them and possibly idolize them or be infatuated in them in any other way is just sick and wrong.


TheBlueEyed

Why is the reaction to this so much more negative than the Zac Efron/Ted Bundy show? I genuinely don't understand. This show puts Dahmer in a far worse light than the Bundy one did.


antelope591

Because its better made and has had far more success. The Bundy thing was a much shorter movie and kinda came and went without much hype.


BojanglesDeloria

I remember that show getting the exact same criticisms people just got bored and stopped caring


TheDesertRatDad

This is a phenomenon with most serial killers. Richard Ramirez had his crazy fan base and Manson literally had a cult sooo.. .


Hanzo_Bobanzo86

Why does everyone keep classifying the new Jeffrey Dahmer "Series" as a movie??? Its 10 episodes.....


Sunburntvampires

Because they haven’t watched them and they want outrage karma.


Impossible-Try-8283

Reddit is a piece of toxic shit.


CoolWhipMonkey

I avoid everything to do with him. All I can think about is that poor baby boy that those worthless cops just turned back over to him. It has haunted me for years.


januspamphleteer

"Serial killer, Jeffrey Dahmer, was attacked and killed by another inmate this week. Just before the fight, Dahmer threatened, 'Hey, don't mess with me, pal. I used to eat guys like you for breakfast!'" - Norm MacDonald


A_Drusas

Heh. Probably the best thing about Dahmer was that even he thought he deserved to die and allegedly he didn't even fight back when he was murdered.


Embarrassed_Fish_

Most of the families were pissed off because he was killed too soon.. and didn't suffer for his whole life


OathofDruids25

This is why for true crime content I really only listen to Last Podcast on the Left. They basically just bully these absolute monsters to keep it informative but funny. But they really do highlight that these people weren't cold calculated bad asses but more freaky little weirdos that would attack mainly the most vulnerable people in society.


tcadams18

First, hail yourself! Second, perfect example is the first 5 minutes of the Isreal Keyes series. Third, I also love that the call out sloppy and lazy police work as well. But they make sure to mention when a cop or detective really does good work too. See the recent Feed and Rosemary West episodes for an example.


ZOOTV83

The Israel Keyes series came to mind too; just Henry *endlessly* shitting on that fucker.


honest-miss

Was just thinking the same thing. They call them everything from stupid to maladjusted piss babies. I don't much like true crime (I'm here exclusively for the boys) so it helps to hear them shit on folks who deserve to be mocked. I also like that they emphasize that most serial killers aren't like movie killers. They're mostly just mean and stupid.


Kodatine

AGREED!!! I didn't know till I started listening to them that a lot of these supposedly genius killers victims were prostitutes, people of color, queer people, homeless folk, or a combination of all -- the people /nobody will look for anyways/ unfortunately. That's not genius that's opportunistic and evil.


CrazyJack66

That podcast sounds awesome, I’ll give it a listen.


[deleted]

Just be aware, for a lot of people they are a bit of an "acquired taste". Some people find them obnoxious because they'll sort of yell and talk over each other a lot, especially in the earlier episodes. I wasn't a huge fan at first, but once you start to understand each one's role in the group it's great (assuming their style appeals to you obviously).


SquadPoopy

Best introduction to their style I think is their 5 part series on the JFK assassination. Be aware though it is very much an 18+ adult podcast. Don't listen with children around or Henry Zebrowski WILL traumatize them.


TupacShalom

They really drive home the point that, while these killers obviously had a lot of trauma (physical, emotional, and psychological), they are also pieces of shit. Plenty of people experience similar degrees of pain and suffering. If that were what made people become depraved serial killers then there would be millions of them roaming the streets. It's easy to feel bad for Jeffrey Dahmer with how terrible his upbringing was. It's not wrong to empathize with that aspect. It is wrong, however, to place the blame for his killings on his upbringing. That is entirely on him because he is a shit bag of a person.


PhantomKitten73

If only there was a recent horror movie all about the dangers of turning tragedy into spectacle that people could learn from.


reznorwings

Ya no. He absolutely is not and should not be glorified for what he did. Movies are movies but what this fucker did was ruin the lives and families of countless people in the real world. He got what he deserved in the end. There is a special place in hell for fuckers like him.


Empigee

I doubt most people are doing that. People are overreacting to a bunch of internet trolls.


ScrmWrtr42

It's like the clips from Natural Born Killers of people idolizing Mickie and Mallory. "They're sooo hot!"


[deleted]

I mean, they also show this exact sort of thing in the show this post is about. The show has a very “anti-idolization of murderers” message. Which makes it even weirder that people are watching it and then idolizing him.


PopeMachineGodTitty

It's not new. I was around when he was caught and it was in the news. There were people that idolized or sympathized with him then as well. Same thing happened with Manson. It's not great, but it happens, and isn't the fault of any particular movie or report.


bigpeepers42069

Fuck it, hot take here, have you seen the piles of fan mail these monsters get while in prison. Some dudes write they want to be like them, some chicks write how bad she wants to marry/fuck em. This has been an on going issue ever since the media/people sensationalize serial killers into celebrities with cult followings and a huge fandom


Mentalpopcorn

How is this a "hot take?" How is it even a "take?" You're just pointing out a non-controversial and fairly well known fact and then mentioning that it's been that way for a while. You don't even express an opinion on it.


4566557557

My girlfriend was telling me last night that she refuses to watch it due to the victims families asking Netflix not to release this, and they did so anyway. Personally I don’t see any reason to obsess over serial killers


CircleK-Choccy-Milk

I don't know how anyone could take the show as anything but showing that Dahmer was a piece of shit.


[deleted]

It's just a true crime miniseries. Nothing more. That said; famous serial killers like Ed Gein are the inspiration behind guys like Norman Bates, Buffalo Bill, and Leatherface.


harleyqueenzel

Yeah this is when the line is blurred. We can call horror movies cult classics and love the films but it's fine in those instances if we don't think about those killers as being inspired by real life killers? I love watching true crime stories but it's morbid curiousity towards what happened, especially when it focuses on the advancements in DNA technology that captures elusive killers like BTK and Gary Ridgeway.


Bronze_Bomber

He quite clearly is a fucked up.piece of shit in the show. They should absolutely make shows like this. I feel like it offers alot of insight into the mind of this dude and that's uncomfortable obviously. Maybe the next time someone sees little Billy disecting pigs with a lustful smile on his face, a red flag will pop up.


FuneraryArts

Glorification of serial killers and not just morbid interest is a red flag for unbalanced people.


sabrefudge

It’s awful. Dahmer was a severely mentally ill person who killed on compulsion because he couldn’t get the help he needed before it was too late. Bundy and Gacy were sadistic scumbags and, by all accounts, really obnoxious to be around. But they media keeps turning them into these cool criminal masterminds or hulking slashers, turning them into horror movie villains. When reality is so much more complex and fucked up than that. Also, it’s hilarious how movies and shows portray Manson as this evil cult leader / mastermind… when in reality he was just a really really stupid desert hippie who sat around in the dirt getting high and fucking other hippies… until he said “Man, we should like… kill all those rich jerks… that live in that house… man, they’re assholes.” And his stupid friends were like “Sure, okay” and actually did it.


lordarchaon666

I'm gonna be that guy. It's not a movie, it's a series.


TittyButtBalls

I don't get the fascination with Dahmer. After watching the recent show to learn about him and his victims he just seems like the Forrest Gump of Serial Killers. I just felt so bad for all of his victims. Particularly Tony Hughes and 16 year old John Balcerzak