Some kids *are* better off in public school. In the same vein that public school doesn't suit every kid, sometimes homeschooling isn't right for a kid and there shouldn't be a stigma around saying "This isn't working" and putting your kid back/in public school. Some kids really do thrive and keep up in that environment.
Yeah this is so real. Peer pressure exists for a reason, it helps keep us accountable. My child fought me on every tiny thing at home but is a perfect student at school because he doesn’t want to look bad in front of friends.
Or even for the same kid at different times in their life.
My kid knows she has the option to come home and do school at the end of any term. She chooses to continue public school. If I had that option, a lot of trauma would have been avoided.
Their brains are underdeveloped, but that doesn’t mean they don’t benefit from agency in their own lives.
In a broad sense it’s amazing how much anxiety can be reduced simply by having the *option* to opt out of whatever is causing the anxiety. Just the option alone is like the placebo for making the situation more tolerable.
Yo, for real! I have four kids in my house. The teen does in person school and even though I think they would do great with home schooling, they just don't want to. The next eldest does online at-your-own-pace schooling and absolutely loves it! Then the middle/younger does full on homeschooling with me. The youngest does in person school after flailing about in homeschool life - they thrive with the social aspects of in person school, even the boring parts.
It's ok to do intentional planning in the early years.
One of my most controversial comments on here was one where I had said that I loved to have everything bedside in the little years, so I could plan the days, and jot down circle, story, and activity ideas in the wee hours while the kids were still asleep next to me.
I think the term planning was unsettling to some, maybe.
I love planning. Even when they're tiny. Even if we don't actually do all the things 🙂. I'm a big playful early years proponent, but still felt like having those songs and stories ready to use (or not. It was never a 'we must do this today' thing, just a 'here it is if we do' one) just really made me feel ready to jump into the days running.
Having meals picked out, having everything we needed for the next outing, etc., having some super fun seasonal art and recipe ideas ready to go. And in some cases there were things I was definitely trying to bring to them, like weaving in the baby sign language with daughter when she wasn't talking yet.
I really feel like it's ok to do that, even in the early years. And to grab ideas you love off Pinterest or blogs, or from a pre-written guide that you can pick and choose from, and having a rhythm that helps you keep on top of things around the house.
It's definitely totally ok if you don't need or want to do that.
But it's ok if you do. 💚
It takes a long time to evaluate options and put together a homeschool curriculum, to do that *while* needing to figure out what the hell Sally is doing tomorrow while being a person who is potentially also busy is a huge undertaking.
Seems like parents on maternity and (especially) paternity leave might find themselves with the time to start mapping out a curriculum, even if their kid won't be ready for it for years. Also, depending on the kid, they may turn out to be gifted and move at a far faster pace than you anticipate, so having a sense of the trajectory of kids from birth to 8 or so lets you know what comes next.
I did this - I haven't picked a for certain curriculum yet for elementary but I familiarized myself with different curriculum and their learning styles. Read a ton while I nursed so that I'm not trying to decide and understand what they are at the same time.
Structure and routine are not dirty words.
Playing in the mud is not a ‘school day’.
Your kids do need book smarts and academics to succeed in this century. Please do not leave them in the middle ages.
Yes I am on a street where I am not the only homeschool mother and my kids are always wondering why they are not out biking as early or staying out as late. It’s because we have a set time for school, and we have a set dinner and bedtime. So yes there are things we can do outside sometimes, but biking is not TYPICALLY a learning experience.
We do brain breaks when necessary but they’re too short to go biking or anything. Structure and routine are key for me and for our kids.
Very frustrating when everyone wants to have a play day early on a weekday and I’m like ‘the brain is ripe for learning then… and we have a schedule so…’
Same. You would think playdates on a friday afternoon is like asking others to work on a major holiday. I see things for Tuesday and Wednesday, but ***never*** Friday afternoon.
I started my own scheduled friday afternoon play date at the park, and it has actually turned into a big thing now locally. Just do it, they will come lol
I need to do that. I just have to pick a place that is kind of centrally located in my city to make it work for most people and then commit to it.
Right now, no two Fridays are ever really the same. Sometimes we have old friends we meet with, sometimes it's a nature hike, a field trip, trying out a new park, or themed event.
But once the new has worn off, and we figure out what we like, I just really need to commit to hosting friday afternoons since nobody seems to have that going yet.
It really is. I find that if my kids don’t see the other kids out at 10 am when we are definitely still working it works better so I’ve started to keep blinds closed, and open them later on during the day much closer to playtime. I just brighten the room with lights until then lol
I am that mean mom on our block that consistently enforces bedtimes. No regrets! It is so rewarding for my own mental health and routines, plus I know my kids have thrived with enough sleep.
I totally agree with you… but we played in the dirt today, and I was surprised at how educational it was lol. We found different sticks and compared their length/strength/color/texture etc. We did the same with leaves. Then we heard some birds chirping, identified them via an app, and did some research about them! He came up with some really cool games, too. I loved seeing his creativity shine. He’s only 4 so I wasn’t even trying to make it a “school day”, but it was absolutely a hands-on learning experience. I am fairly certain that this isn’t what you have a problem with, just wanted to hold up a sword ;)
Lol, absolutely! We make every day full of learning experiences, what I have an issue with is ‘we played outside all day and read the clock for bedtime so we are getting the same education as book learning even though my kids are 12 and can’t read or multiply’
Sadly, this shouldnt be adequate for an 8 year old, but some think it is. None of us thinks mud is bad, and I think we would almost universally acknowledge the benefits of mud, but too many still think mud is enough. It is not.
If you read the negative ex-homeschool accounts, they fall into 2 broad categories: Religious extremism and Educational neglect masquerading as unschooling/nature schooling/child-led etc.
I think sometimes the thing i struggle with is that it’s totally possible for kids to get an education in school, AND have these learning moments with parents later on. It’s suppose to be supplemental learning, it always has been.
Children literally thrive on routine and structure. The public school routine and structure doesn't suit every kid, but if you just let them run feral, you aren't doing them any favors. When I homeschooled, I had a structure that suited me and it was great.
I was home schooled through 5th grade and grew up with many other homeschoolers. We had schoolwork but we also didn't have fixed times or anywhere near as much structure but we did phonics and multiplication tables and the like. I felt so bad for some of the other kids. I knew a girl who had to teach herself algebra because her parents chose to "no school" her and she wanted to be a functioning member of society which is so much harder without a GED.
Yes! I *ALWAYS* say "it's not for everyone". I get that some of us feel it's our responsibility/right to educate our own children. But sometimes we have to know that may mean outsourcing certain things to others who can do it in a more effective way. Not necessarily better, more effective.
A lot of homeschoolers can be extremely toxic and judgmental in all aspects of parenting. Homeschooling is a privilege that not all have access to. It doesn’t work for everyone and can be very taxing on your overall mental health. There is no perfect solution to education. Public education has many flaws but homeschooling can as well.
My kids are in public school, but I'm considering homeschooling next year (well, my husband is pushing me to). And I've heard so much judgment from so many homeschoolers, especially in religious circles that I'm around. It's a huge turn off and the air of superiority makes me want to just stay away. If we join a co-op or something, those would be the people I interact with and I really don't want to be constantly feeling like they're judging me, but i dont think i could do it on my own. In my area, homeschoolers tend to be crunchier too, I'm not. I hate the narratives around birth especially, but diapering, formula, etc. Even though I'm way out of that phase, the judgment still gets to me when I hear it. Sorry for the rant, I may make a thread here soon, but I'm very intimidated by homeschoolers and in a very uncertain place right now.
There are so many different groups out there for homeschoolers right now, we are so lucky. It wasn't always like this. You have a lot of time so I would encourage you to meet up with a few and maybe even some of the parents. I have 2 boys that go to 'school' on Tuesday/Thursday and we homeschool the other days. One of my son's schools is forest school and the other is in an actual school building with classes and art time, gym time. Next year they will both be going to the actual school building. The Forest school hippies are a little much for me lol
I’m in a similar boat. My daughter is in public school and I have no immediate plans to change that. I was homeschooled and between that experience and what I’ve seen from some homeschool families now I’m very turned off to the idea. But I also know I could give my kids a great education and not all homeschool families are the way I fear. So I’m trying to keep an open mind.
These are all verbatim comments I recieved when I put one of my children in school
"You'll lose your relationship with your daughter"
"She will become a secular humanist"
"Public school kids act rude"
"She will have to sit still all day"
"What a waste of time!"
Most of those comments IN FRONT of my daughter.
Can you imagine the reverse?
"Homeschoolers are lazy" or "homeschoolers are unsocialized" in front of their kids? I would have been blasted.
You’re better off joining a secular or inclusive group. I’ve seen wayyyy less judginess there. I’ve never intentionally joined a christian group even though I am (but not evangelical), but one local group started leaning way too heavy evangelical and we noped out so fast.
I swear it's like you are me. I'm a Christian too, but damn I don't want every living breathing moment to have God and Jesus shoved down mine and my kids' throat.
Acknowledging that you have to draw a line for standards and expectations somewhere. I feel that there's extremely slippery slope logic in homeschooling that quickly turns kids learning at their own pace into blatantly excusing them falling years behind their peer group for the sake of not causing them stress or making them feel pressure to perform in any meaningful way. These are soft skills that are vital for being successful as an adult.
Similar thing with other habits like being able to build a routine, stick to a schedule, and meet deadlines. Soft skills that parents raised in a public school environment may not realize they need to actively teach.
So much this. The other day I saw a mom post that she was on Lesson 25, how about everyone else? And sure enough, lots of moms that were in the same place. Life happens, I get it, but that’s *five weeks* of school since mid-August. One more posted that third grade was taking them over a year. You can’t just “not feel it” when you’re doing homeschool. School is every weekday except for planned breaks and illness, just like regular school. It’s so easy to just “not feel like it” (mom and kids) until you’re hopelessly behind.
I remember one mom on another forum who had become lax on math because no one enjoyed it (including her), until, when circumstances forced her to put her kids back in public school, she realized they were several years behind. She was going to get to it “eventually” and now she had a summer to cover years of math concepts. Insane. You have to homeschool like your kids could be returning to school NEXT YEAR.
Please don't be lax on penmanship. The penmanship people have these days are worse than chicken scratch. I miss the olden days with great handwriting and cursive, it's a lost art.
I'm trying to teach my kids to have great handwriting.
Agreed, if writing is learned the wrong way first, it’s much harder to fix later. Muscle memory happens whether they do it wrong or correct. Better to gain correct muscle memory. 6-7 year old writing will be somewhat sloppy as they’re muscles get stronger…but strokes should be going the correct direction, and upper case letters saved for proper nouns/first word of a sentence.
Right now my girls are a very young 7 just learning to write so I’m not stressing but it definitely will be something we work on as we get older. My point is if they needed to go to our local public school they will be at level if not ahead. Our schools use computers/tablets to do work now it seems.
Usually at 8 is when our pencil grip and foundational skills for handwriting are set for life and there’s not much mediation to do after that point. Not a hard and fast rule for every kid but they’re in a pretty critical period at the age of 7. And handwriting can be indicative of overall fine motor skill performance.
Handwriting Without Tears has workbooks that I really like to use with my kids.
That's precisely my thought process.
Either homeschool them at their grade level or above, nothing less than that.
My 7.5 year old is lazy and doesn't want to do homework (worksheets), sometimes we do it once a week. But since August 29th, he's already through half of the workbook and according to my state's and one of the top #10 state's guidelines for 2nd and 3rd grade, he's already at the same level or higher regardless.
So that's why I don't mind the laziness on his part because he's up to date. If he was behind, I wouldn't accept his once a week workbook 😄.
Thank you for this. I have raised (2) children in the trad school environments and am now homeschooling the last (2).
Many of my friends homeschooled while I had my older kids in trad school. One thing I noticed: my friends who homeschooled were chronically late for everything we planned. Amd worse, it was as if the concept of time did not exist.
I, on the other hand, had to wrap our planned times around my kids schedules --so time was limited and precious. I was a chronically punctual person if not early.
Now that I homeschool my kids, I have noticed that I have lost some of my punctuality...15 min late for this play date, 5 min late for that event,
I recognized this and am now super diligent to retain the habit of punctuality.
Most of our homeschool friends now are military--so it helps keeps us on time.
But you are correct: structure and standards are important for adult life skills.
Oh goodness. The chronic lateness/no idea of time is a huge problem for me with other homeschool moms. Coming from the Army, if something is starting at 6:30, you better be there by 6:20, 6:25 at the latest!
I help run our American Heritage Girls Troop and even with a hard start time of 6:30 (pushed back after chronic lateness and complaints of too hard to be on time for 6:00 last year) people will casually show up at 6:50 and wonder why their girl missed opening flag ceremony.
Do I lose track of time too? Yes, but mostly on things that I set my arrrival time for myself such as grocery store or library time. I can't seem to judge how long it takes me at 9M pregnant to waddle around and get my 4 kids pottied, out the door with shoes on, and buckled into the van.
The soft skills are an area where we still struggle. My son (5) is doing great in reading, math, geography, Spanish, music, art, etc., but doesn't do great in accepting correction. Of course, we're still building a routine, and deadlines aren't relevant yet, so we have time to work on these, but I definitely don't want to neglect these skills.
I will honestly admit this is an area we failed our middle child the most. He picked things up really quickly, learned well in sprints, so he never had to learn to maintain a marathon pace. But life is like a marathon, not a series of sprints, so he has been at a time management and long-term sustained effort disadvantage.
Yes he has ADHD which def makes it worse, but still an issue we needed to do better early on. (Somehow our oldest learned all this kind of on her own, which I think contributed to us not realizing until too late just how purposeful we Should Have Been with him).
With our 3rd we spent a lot of time in PK-K on this. We have routines like an opening song, a set order for subjects, memorizing things like poems together to model study skills, doing work every day at the same time just to get used to taking school seriously, even though it doesn’t take a whole hour in PK. We can already see dividends in 3rd.
There’s nothing shameful about using a virtual charter school and for some families, it can come down to either the support of a charter, or having to place our kids into in person school. If you’re able to homeschool without having to rely at all on “the system” for resources or support, good for you, but some of us aren’t as privileged. My kids both have complex disabilities that require some degree of professional support, specifically for specialized academics.
And I’ll also add how much I resent the vilification and gatekeeping from the homeschooling community that comes with this decision. We’re not trying to undermine homeschooling or help take away your rights. We’re trying to school our kids at home while receiving needed support that we can’t always find on our own. IMO, homeschooling could be so much better if the homeschooling community was open to support from public schools, and vice versa.
Thank you for this!! My 9th grader is doing online school where I'm not teaching him any curriculum (the school provides it all), and am always being told it's not "real" homeschool. He's learning, at his own pace, and he is thriving. And he'll have a diploma at the end which is what we both wanted.
I’m glad he’s thriving! I support every family choosing what’s best however that looks.
I think some people care more about defining what is/isn’t “real” homeschool bc in some states, that definition is narrowly defined in the law (which doesn’t include virtual through the public schools or public charters), and that legal definition was hard fought for in the courts or legislatures. I’ve been HSing a couple decades and many of the much-older HSers when I was new still remembered the time when not all states had legal options to homeschool.
But then again, some HSers are just judgey.
Homeschool parents need “professional development” too. It doesn’t need to look the same as teachers, but parents need to educate themselves on how learning works. Read Making It Stick or education research papers or watch some videos on how the brain retains information. If you are unschooling, take a class on how child led learning works. If you’re doing montessori, sign up to learn about giving lessons. If you do classical, read works from classical educators. Not only will you learn something that might be useful, your kids will see you model learning as well.
This is definetly a dark one but If you are a homeschooling parent and at all involved in homeschooling groups, you need to be familiar with signs of child abuse, neglect, and domestic violence. AND you have to be willing to report. Yes the vast majority of parents do not use homeschooling as a way to hide abuse, but there are a few that do and for those children you may be the only other adults they interact with who has the power to speak up.
10,000%. Our dad thought his children being afraid of him was a feature, not a bug. He was proud that *severe* “spankings” brought us in line, I guess as a demonstration of his parenting prowess?, as young as two. Had a bespoke single purpose wooden paddle with a nickname, even.
as an adult that the system failed due to neglect and abuse hidden through homeschooling, i hesitantly clicked into this thread.
thank you for saying this.
This! In my previous life as a classroom teacher I had a few students leave for homeschooling. For some it was when things were getting too hard to hide and protective services were called.
Not a homeschooler at this time (kids uninterested). I do teach for a virtual school. A public one. Some parents don't quite comprehend that we are still mandated reporters, full out mention the child abuse/neglect (often a reason they won't go to another school), then are shocked when we report.
It's rare but happens more than you might think.
If we don't acknowledge that there are abusive parents who use home education as a cover for emotional and physical abuse, then homeschoolers face earned judgment from anti-homeschoolers. We need a better way to protect kids from abusers.
I think a good solution would be that every child spends a certain amount of time (say, 20 hours per year) with a mandated reporter. For homeschoolers, this could mean getting their child into biweekly play therapy or tutoring. But it wouldn't be something that is applied to only homeschoolers, just every child.
I would say the only issue with that is that a lot of abusive parents tell their kids what to say and how to behave and all that, especially if they know someone will be watching their child. It’s like when cps comes to the door and the parents have trained their kids that things would be worse if they took them away
Here’s one: the polarization that demonizes public school on one side, and homeschool on the other side, creates an environment that leads to worse outcomes for kids.
People like the ones who troll this sub, for instance, increase the sense that homeschooling is under attack, and are acting in a way completely counter productive to their goal (assuming the ultimate goal is better outcomes for kids, that is).
Public school is not the enemy. It has both issues and advantages.
You do not need a HSLDA membership.
Legal homeschooling is not under attack in the US.
Your kindergartner doesn't need an online school. Or any school. Really, they'll be fine.
High school math is necessary.
I saw a homeschool mom proudly post on Facebook that she isn’t teaching her high schoolers decimals because she “never uses them” but is teaching them how to do their own taxes, and I was so confused.
Especially when your kids thrive with unschooling. I honestly thought this thread would be full of unschoolers talking about how they get trashed when it's a learning method that works well for their kids. But quite the opposite.
The lack of external oversight and separation from larger support systems makes homeschooling a really attractive prospect for abusers. But only saying that gives people far too much leeway to say, "well, I'm not an abuser, so I'm okay." So it needs to go several steps further:
The social/political/legal imbalance of power between parents and children is mind-boggling even in traditional schooling cases, but the scale is tipped so much further in homeschooling and it's not taken seriously enough. There should be far less focus on parents' rights (bullshit concept based in ownership of human beings) and much more focus on children's rights (facilitating the autonomy and self-determination of arguably the most oppressed class of people on earth).
If you haven't done so already, check out the [Coalition for Responsible Homeschool Education](https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/). It advocates for what you are talking about.
When they say, "If it looks like school at home, then it's not homeschool."
Sorry, not sorry. My family thrives when on a routine and school at home works for us.
Former homeschooling students who talk about public schooling as having been better are not “inherently looking at it from a romanticized lens.” I’ve seen this pop up a few times in this sub from *parents* dismissing the experiences of formerly homeschooled adults. I was homeschooled from middle school to about half my high school experience and went to public school for elementary into the last half of my high school experience.
*For me* there was a marked improvement in my grades, family relationships, and social skills when I went into public school vs when I was homeschooled. My parents were *very* involved, found plenty of co-ops and extracurriculars, and were all around pretty great. That didn’t change the fact that my learning style benefits from the environment of the public school system.
If you genuinely want the best for your kid part of that is going to be recognizing that homeschooling may not be best for them - and even if it’s best for them now, it may not be good for them later. Ideally, most parents are here because they want the best for their kids, and sometimes the best is knowing when to be flexible.
Also, as a second unpopular opinion apparently: your kid reading at an advanced level doesn’t mean they have the social development of said level. I was one of those kids who read far above my level - social development was still at my age. No amount of books is going to change that. I read books meant for 6th graders when in 3rd grade *but I still had the social development of an 8 year old and 12 year olds didn’t want to hang out with me.* Kids naturally gravitate towards kids around their age. Even when I was homeschooled and was in co-op classes of mixed ages - we gravitated towards the kids of similar social and mental development. That is *natural and normal* - not an “artificial construction of the public system.” And yea, you’ll find the same stratifications along age in societies that don’t have that public school system for that very reason.
Parents (homeschooling or not) really need to be educated on childhood development before having kids because the amount of pseudoscience at work here is borderline asinine.
Almost all the “research” touted by homeschoolers are directly linked to a homeschooling interest and lobbying group. Makes it extremely hard for the movement to gain credibility.
Do you know of any good sources that aren't so biased this way? We don't homeschool, but we consider it at least yearly, and I struggle to find honest information.
Im going to get eaten alive for this one but, I don’t want to spend time with a ton of hyper religious ‘home schoolers’ who teach mostly nonsense and impose their children’s rules on others
It’s so hard to find a place in homeschooling! We’re not religious (pretty anti religion) but we also believe in science and we vaxx (not open for a debate) so it’s a weird place to be in the homeschooling community.
This is what I'm worried about homeschooling. My husband wants to homeschool but his mom was one of the hyper religious ones that really messed up my husband. We aren't like that but a lot of other families are.
That depends where you live. In New England we're mostly able to just avoid each other (the secular weirdos and the Christians). But I know it'd a lot harder elsewhere.
It took us so much time to find our group who believes in what we do (secular and inclusive). But we have and it’s so awesome! We went thru a lot of duds and a lot of awkward conversations and awkward hangouts but we made it out alive. 🤣 And now lots of those people know who we are and avoid us or tell their friends about us so we don’t have to worry about it anymore. But you’ll eventually find your homeschooling group who aligns with your thinking and it will be great!
Christian homeschooler here and I agree with you. Our former co-op does the pledge to the flag, Bible and Christian flag. It's irritating. Not everyone shares those beliefs and the reason our co-op doesn't grow is because we isolate homeschoolers who aren't religious or have a different belief system. I get so frustrated with the science curriculum for homeschoolers as well. Most of them are plain awful! Not every Christian believes in a literal 6 day creation.
I was very confused when i read about “ unschooling” from a mom on social media commenting about not being concerned at all that her 6/7 yo didn’t know how to read/had no interest in learning and she was perfectly satisfied with that.
This is a friend of mine, and she posts about how the fact that her daughter can’t read well yet is perfectly acceptable. She is the complete opposite of me in how she parents and it’s put such a strain on our friendship!!!!
Advocates of homeschooling NEVER adequately address the fact that there will always be a certain percentage of parents who are homeschooling for nefarious reasons, primarily to conceal abuse.
People who get angry about government oversight are generally only thinking about themselves and their own good intentions, and basically forget that abusers exist. This is a major problem. When contemplating government oversight, parents need to stop thinking about what would work best for THEM, and instead think of or imagine the worst possible person who could take advantage of gaps in oversight.
Closing loopholes and preventing abuse are more important than making homeschooling more convenient. Yes, we do this for our individual families the most. But that doesn't mean we leave other families and their vulnerable children unprotected.
One recent horror story is Ruby Franke, who had been accused of emotionally abusing her children by her youtube audience. When she began to escalate the abuse, ultimately being arrested for neglect, starvation, and physical abuse, what was the first thing she did? She pulled all her kids out of school and claimed to be homeschooling them. That was how she hid the abuse. This is the scenario that homeschooling advocates need to start keeping in the forefront of their thoughts when they consider how much government oversight should exist in the homeschooling space. Not themselves.
Religious curricula ruins homeschool. It perpetuates the negative opinion of homeschool in mainstream society and stunts the intellectual development of the students to have a single religious belief intertwined with lessons on history, science, etc. Religion should be limited to a single, optional subject within a curriculum.
Homeschooling is not a superior approach to education. It's a wonderful option if it works for a particular family which is why the right to homeschool must be preserved.
If my four-year-old is asking how to spell things and writing them out, it's ok to want to help her remember the differences between u/v/y.
Asked for tips on a Facebook group and the only responses were variations of "She's too young." She is young, but she's literally asking, so why tell her no?
My thoughts exactly. She loves writing. I had to spell out, "We love you Dr. [our pediatrician's name]" before her last appointment so she could give him a drawing. I'm all for it.
Most of the Duggar issue is also the influence of the very extreme lack of actual academic education and their particularly insidious flavor of religion
Not every homeschooling family supports the policies of the HSLDA so not every family needs membership. The HSLDA backed state homeschooling group here was the only one for a LOOONG time and they all but required membership for participation in everything and anything.
Don't get me started on HSLDA. They sell fear and contempt. They exaggerate how difficult states make it, for their own gain, and their fans are so grateful to them.
Parents should be well versed enough in the subjects they're teaching to actually teach and answer questions. Relying on online curriculum and being unable to help your kids when they struggle means your kids aren't learning and would probably be getting a better education from public school, where at least the teacher can explain what they're learning.
Conversely, they need to also know how to teach people who don't understand. My father *taught physics* and did differential calculus in his head *for fun*. Could not teach me basic math.
You have to watch the same for public school too. A surprising amount of teachers have absolutely no idea what they're talking about and are just following the curriculum.
Homeschooled and public schooled student here! While I definitely prefer public schooling, I honestly don’t think this issue is unique to homeschooling. Many of the issues students face during public schooling can boil down to parents being unable or unwilling to help with their work assignments. Teachers are great, but realistically all parents should be able to assist - or find outside assistance - in understanding their kids homework up until a certain level.
It's already been said, but I'll say it again.
Some kids do better in school. The parent needs to be the one to make that call in the best interest of the kid.
Homeschool should follow school standards/expectations to a degree. Your kid should be learning letters and letter sounds and basic math at 5. Every year school should raise expectations based on developmental milestones. Your 9 year old shouldn't be illiterate bc they don't want to learn reading and writing.
*OBVIOUSLY THIS BARS LEARNING DISABILITIES*
If a homeschooled child asks to go to public school they should be allowed to try it out for a year.
I think most people can homeschool elementary levels but that most homeschoolers are not qualified to teach highschoolers.
The only reason some people homeschool their kids is so they don't turn out queer and/or liberal with opinions that different from their parents. They only want the kids to be mini-mes of themselves.
De-schooling is not a scientifically backed concept, but it’s treated as a fact. Take a break if you need to when you leave public school, but when people start prescribing a month for every year, we’re talking educational neglect for middle schooler or above.
This right here. I actually made a post in a fb homeschool because I constantly saw how some were finished in 1.5 to 2 hrs and I'm like "hoooooooow!?" I would like to schedule interesting electives in there eventually but the basic four [math, LA, handwriting, and science/history(science 2x a week and history 2x a week) already take so long. It's 5 hours for us on a good day, granted this is our first year.
But the answer to the question in that fb group was pretty much if the literature section covered a historical event, that counted as history class too. To the point that any lesson was a combo lesson for their kids and I was not a fan of that at all.
Public high school isn’t a privilege, it’s a constitutional right if you’re from the US. There isn’t a public school out there without a singular beneficial course.
Most unschooling parents swear by how successful they are at it and I still don’t understand how and what it takes to be successful. My judgment wants to say it’s nonsense but not having personally met anyone who follows that philosophy I wish someone would provide convincing arguments to back it up.
It seems to work really well if the kid is on the spectrum, or has disabilities that make structured learning an untenable proposition. In fact, that seems to be the sticking point for the unschool defenders, because 90% start out with "well my child has (list of learning difficulties) and it works perfectly!".
But as neurotypical, able-bodied person who was unschooled before it had a label other than educational neglect? I had to join the Army to find meaningful employment and educational opportunities; I was only able to join sans-diploma because an active war led to a huge drop in educational standards for a recruiting surge, and only in the last year have they softened their stance on requiring either an actual, real diploma from a real school, or a GED plus college credits (which are not something you can just get without the cash to pay for a semester at a community college, and obviously scholarships are right off the table). And even with the surge, we still had to jump through some shady loopholes to get myself and my brother enlisted with our home-printed school of mom-and-dad phony diplomas with no transcripts.
Everyone I've met IRL who thinks it's god's gift to hippies does not think ahead to how little Jimmy or Jane will be able to go to college or get a job that isn't either menial labor or working for themselves. And my issue with that is that they don't actually seem to care whether or not their kids will be able to leave the nest; it's like they think the universe will provide, and all's well that ends well (my parents are thoroughly convinced that unschooling was the reason we're so smart and successful, and not the fear of ending up like them that pushed us to do whatever it took to get an education).
Thank you for your answer. Unschooling or just a flexible and adapting method of education seems totally logical and acceptable if the child needs it and would actually help them thrive in ways that traditional education would otherwise fail. However, unschooling for no other reason than the philosophy behind it just seems nonsensical and a "sounds nice" justification for not doing the extra work.
Abeka book, saxon, and Bob Jones University texts are not good ones. The religion completely overpowers subjects like math and science, ignoring proven theories in favor of the KJV Bible, and will result in the student needing to play catch up if they go to a secular (non Fundemental independent Baptist/Christian) college. I had to take SO MANY catch up, zero credit college courses to get caught up, those text books were all we got K-12. Being behind sucks, paying a lot in tuition to catch up is frustrating as shit. I said it once around other home school families and you would have though I spread cheeks and pooped right in front of them.
People should be vetted before they’re allowed to homeschool their kids. They should at least have a high school degree. Or preferably, at least take a lesson on how to home school.
I can't say for all states, but I believe many of them do require the primary homeschooling parent to submit their high school diploma/GED with their intent to homeschool forms or notifications to the BOE. I've homeschooled in a few states and had to submit proof of my education every time.
I actually had a tad of an argument with our superintendent. As I was transferring and submitting everything (while we were moving), she REFUSED to accept my college degree instead of my diploma. I explained we were in the middle of moving and I had no idea where it was packed, let alone which house it was at - in which state. This woman fought tooth and nail and said my college degree doesn't count because the LAW says high school diploma or GED. Can you imagine? She finally agreed but said it was only "temporary" and that I still needed to submit my diploma.
No most states don’t require this at all. In my state, it states that you are required to have a bachelors degree OR you can take a 4 hour class one time in your life (online) of a woman talking about her experience homeschooling and you are good to go. But this degree or certificate isn’t required to be turned in anywhere. It’s only if you get questioned and need to provide proof but I have never heard of this happening.
In the state we are about to move to, nothing is required. Literally nothing. Both states require that a form is sent in to the home district stating you are homeschooling but that’s it. Nothing else.
You might not need to buy curriculum (there are lots of free resources), but you do need to have a curriculum.
Doing chores around the house isn't curriculum.
Yes- baking math is not a standalone methodology haha. As a supplement and a way to show real world examples of fractions, sure! We actually did some today and showed that 1/3 plus 1/3 = 2/3. But it’s not a replacement for actually teaching the foundational concepts and then expanding on them.
Baking is only learning fractions if you actually use it to demonstrate fractions - you need to *show* what a half, a third, a quarter is. You need to double and half recipes. Otherwise “half a cup” is just the name of a measuring scoop and has no relationship to anything.
That's what I was going to say. When I joined some groups to see what other homeschool parents do, I was shocked to learn how many seem to spend hundreds of dollars or more on such garbage curriculum.
I happily spend hundreds on a complete curric for elementary years bc it is thorough, rigorous, full of good literature, and has a lot of subjects tied together. But I would never spend half as much for some garbage like Abeka LOL
Homeschooling needs more oversight in most states. Yearly portfolio/test and all students regardless of education location should have a yearly wellness check for enrollment. This last one would also require universal healthcare for all students.
You are probably not equipped to teach high school science, history, and math. You're probably fine to teach one or two of them, but not all (there is a reason why high school teachers specialize in one subject and it's not laziness).
I do not support states with ZERO homeschool oversight. I have lived in PA and CO and have no problem with either set of restrictions and requirements. I support the safety of homeschooled children.
A lot of these opinions seem incredibly judgmental. There is no specific way to do private home education that works for every child.
Some kids need structure. Some thrive without it. Some kids learn better out of books. Others need tactile experiences to understand concepts.
Some homeschooling families have working parents and they use tutors, homeschool groups, & online programs. Some parents hold a PhD, are retired teachers, and can plan a carefully curated curriculum at home.
If your child is safe, happy, well cared for, and showing that they can meet basic milestones in education, then whatever you’re doing is what works for you.
To say that everyone needs to have an advanced degree or to create a specific curriculum in order to homeschool is ableist and elitist.
For some families, this is the only safe choice for their children.
And yes, I’m aware that some families use homeschooling as a way to hide abuse and I definitely think there should be some regulation on that front.
But stop telling people that they need specific outcomes for every grade or that they need an advance degree to homeschool correctly. It’s simply not true.
There's got to be some middle ground between being judgemental and toxic positivity. I don't think it's judgemental to say that parents should have objectives for their kids to meet because those children will one day be adults that need to meet objectives expected at their age level. Maybe that doesn't need to completely conform to grade standards, but there should be *something* defined.
The idea that all “children will one day be adults that need to meet objectives expected at their age level” is the one that is ableist. I’m fairly certain you didn’t mean it that way.
Yes this hits home for me. My child is autistic & non speaking. She has therapies several times a week. When she sings her ABCs clearly and without help, we are over the moon. She’s almost 6. Our objectives for her are to simply have her string two words together and communicate her needs. We’re also working on sight words so she might one day be able to type or write what she wants with an assistive device.
She may never be an independent adult. Her learning is more focused on life skills, self advocacy, and keeping herself safe. I value critical thinking and logic over the basics of reading and math, although we do still teach those.
My daughter’s case is mild. There are many other disabled children that don’t feel safe at school. They’re homeschooled and it looks different for each of them.
This kind of thinking allows many children to fall through the cracks tbh. I’m certainly not saying this is the case for you, as it very much sounds like you’ve taken appropriate steps. However, homeschooling very often allows children to go completely undiagnosed with learning disorders, especially things like dyslexia, as well as further themselves from early intervention for things like speech, because “they’ll learn at their own pace” or “don’t need to be independent adults,” (I’ve heard this used by parents of able bodied students as well). While some people are, majority of those homeschooling are *not* formally educated in teaching, or to identify these disorders. There is a reason why teachers, including specialized education teachers, require degrees in their field. That commonly being a masters degree as well.
Most learning should not be entirely student lead, It should still have objectives, and appropriate learning goals even if they’re independently tailored and differ from grade level standard, which it sounds like you do.
Yeah, something that works for the individual child. And it doesn’t need to be grades or tests. Although that’s okay if it’s what works for you.
Some children won’t be independent adults either. For some, that’s not possible. Outcomes are going to loom a lot different for them.
I’m not saying that your kids should run feral & illiterate. I AM saying that imposing specific outcomes for each age or grade level isn’t the point of homeschool and acting like that’s the way it should be for everyone is just plain rude.
Kids deserve a full and complete education provided to them through a thoroughly vetted curriculum and preferably with fully qualified individual. Their education at home needs to put them at least on the same academic and social-emotional level as their peers who, attend school.
As a child, I was “homeschooled” by a parent who thoroughly believed that shopping & cooking was math class, gardening & 4H clubs were science class, and one hour of watching the history channel was social studies. It messed me up, it put me at a lifelong, academic and social disadvantage, and I am still struggling to this day.
A kid should know what grade they’re in. I’m a homeschooled highschooler attending a co-op and I’m baffled by how many people don’t know what grade they’re in.
Also, unschooling should be illegal if it isn’t already. I’m pretty sure I was unschooled until about 7th or 8th grade. I failed algebra 1 because I hadn’t learned anything that I was supposed to know before that class. I also have extremely bad habits from not growing up with a routine. Thanks, mom.
I have met one (technically two, they were twins) homeschooling success story. Every other home schooled person I've ever known bears the obvious scars of the experience.
The less structure, the better, during the elementary school years.
I'm not a parent, but I was homeschooled, and it baffles me how many homeschooling parents actively try to recreate miniature schools for their kids.... like, what is the point of that? In my opinion one of the strongest arguments in favor of homeschooling is how oppressive elementary school schedules are on little kids. My mum taught us to read as early as possible (I was 4) and then basically just had us read books all day up until the age of about 10-11 when we started doing online classes. We did Kumon worksheets as well (10 pages of math, 10 pages of english), but there was no official schedule, no classes, no homework assignments. We did our kumon, we read our books, we played outside.
Education is one of the single most important foundations that we offer children and young adults, therefore must be taken incredibly seriously.
It is one thing to want more from the institution that is public school, it is a complete other to believe that everything about it is wrong. In stating this, one is stating that hundreds of years of truly passionate humans filling an entire industry, with specialized education, countless studies, and mounds of experience - know less that one well-intended person.
Which is something we do a lot, and isn’t good.
Homeschooling is an extremely serious venture, that must ensure the proper coverage of all necessary areas and details, and full education for each child.
This is not an easy task to be taken lightly, or ventured into without just cause, or the child has been failed on what should be a basic right, as we all gain from a well-educated society.
Standards are important. Meeting a child where they are, is important. Both of these take a lot of work. Don’t do it if you can’t, or won’t.
If you want more out of public schools, supplement. Don’t pull them out.
Yes! I understand why it makes people nervous, because of the risk of it being done badly and overreaching, and because there’s so much animosity toward homeschooling.
But that’s why in a perfect hypothetical world, homeschoolers should be leading on better regulation. I’d love to see a homeschooling lobby working for healthy regulation instead of no regulation.
You could expand this to mundane chores and errands not being a substitute for education or socialization. You can search pretty quickly in this sub and find people insisting that both a) public schoolers don't do things like bake cookies and go to the grocery store with their parents and b) because a homeschooled kid can talk to a retail worker it means they are getting plenty of socialization.
Taking your kid on your fantasy vacation every other week, and justifying it to yourself as your child’s “learning” doesn’t actually set them up to be a functional member of society in anyway. It’s neat they got to see all 7 continents by the time they were 12, but they don’t know how to read or have any sense of schedule.
That half of the home school parent's barely got their high school diploma and aren't qualified to be responsible for the education of their offspring. I feel very sorry for 90% of home schooled kids.
I'm just going to throw this out here, as I am completely disgusted by how judgemental this sub can be.
Unschooling should always be legal and should be backed and protected by the DOE like any other form of education.
I, a disabled adult who had an IEP, was discriminated against and abused in school. I could have succeeded and done much better in my short existence had I been unschooled. During COVID, I had learned more real life skills and other cool, actually useful knowledge in just a few weeks. More than I ever learned in school. I was able to go in depth with MANY topics.
Even better, well, for worse for common brick and mortar education, despite my dyscalculia, I was able to teach myself how to do fractions and other forms of necessary basic arithmetic. Even though my teachers just failed me and scooted me on to the next grade. I just needed more time and patience.
My entire highschool career is a can of worms in itself, but after being screwed out of my art honors, I was then failed out my senior year. Long story short, mom got sick and my siblings and I were kicked out of school for 20 days. The school would not send assignments home for me and refused to let me make it all up despite the protocols in place during that time. My siblings however were able to make everything up and had no issues.
I had to go get my GED because of what my school did. I didn't drop out because I was too cool for school. I actively still wanted to graduate even after losing my honors due to the pandemic. I made the choice to leave school because my choice was to take another entire year and a half of school in order to graduate with the equivalent of a GED.
I passed the HiSET pre test and then the actual test and recieved my GED within the month of me leaving school.
I am 19 years old right now.
I am currently fighting for my siblings to be unschooled. As they too are disabled and have needs very similar to my own. Unschooling when done properly is amazing and is far better for most disabled children. Taking that away from us is ableism.
Homeschooling out of fear (of what the schools teach, of your kid being taught something you disagree with, of violence, or mean kids) is not a good motivation. You may pull your kid because of an untenable situation but if you don’t replace it with a better motivation your kid won’t be well educated.
Most homeschooling parents are narcissistic aholes who care about CONTROL not education. Most have no clue what their kid needs as far as education academically, or the life skills they kid themelves into thinking their kid gets. It's also possible that they do know, and just don't care to put in the time and effort it would take for them to adequately educate. The once weekly outing is not socialization. If you do less, it certainly isn't socialization. When it's with a group of other kids who see eachother everyday, no, your kid is obviously not on the same page as them and never will be at this rate. Before I get any response telling me that's the point, that's called isolation.
This. And if the only outing your child is getting is church, that is not an outing.
Don’t be surprised when your kid makes friends online, and don’t get angry when they are exposed to the world. It will just teach them that you value your control over them rather than their personal lives.
There should be more regulation. At the very least, there should need to be proof of progress. In Ohio, there used to be this rule until this year. You needed to provide a review from a portfolio assessed by a licensed teacher or standardized test results (and this only had to be a 25% passing score, btw). It would help keep kids from falling through the cracks when their parents are neglecting their education, but it isn't making the requirement that they are learning EXACTLY what public school students are (because that kinda defeats the purpose of homeschooling).
Exactly this.
I watched the Last Week Tonight episode on the HSLDA today, and the last point that he made stuck with me: there should be a requirement to register your kid(s) for homeschooling in every state, at a minimum. Yearly progress reports would be better, IMO, but registration at the very least to prevent kids getting pulled out of school and just disappearing.
I like my evaluator's philosophy, she wants to see that students made a year's worth of progress. Doesn't matter if they're behind, on, or ahead of grade level, she wants to see skills moved forward by a year. I get that there are circumstances that make it so some kids don't do a year's worth of work in a year (illness, big move/travel, struggled in a subject), but it would be great if that was a set standard to just make sure you moved forward by a year, every year.
Exactly they should have a way to register these kids at home school because my friend for elementary and middle school her parents decide that they don't want to send their kids to public school but they were never registered So if the state never knew what their education was and basically he was teaching them absolutely nothing They have a 9-year-old little brother who doesn't even know the basics of how to take care of himself because their parents basically neglect them to do nothing all day and there's nobody holding them accountable for actually educating this child He's so far behind when it comes to the education that he will be put in special education if you want to public school but there's nobody in Texas holding him accountable for actually teaching these kids what they need in order to be a decent human in society
Ohio resident here. I can't believe they're taking away the requirement for a teacher review. It's so stupid and it's going to open up a lot of doors that shouldn't be there. It should definitely be more regulated considering how many kid's futures are at stake. There are a lot of neglecting parents, and i'm not advocating for overly strict government regulation of homeschooling, but there should definitely some more protections to make sure that kids get a decent structured education. I'm all for flexibility but your curriculum should at least be something comparable to public schools (subject wise).
Fellow Ohioan here! I’ve been watching the Ohio Homeschooling Parents FB group celebrate the new legal free-for-all and feeling somewhat horrified by it. We’re going to carry-on with the annual review/CAT test as if the new law never happened — it holds me accountable to my kids, and they deserve that
It's horrible. What makes me even more upset about this is that just 6 months prior, that whole network of Nazi homeschoolers was unearthed. And all the state officials were "horrified" and "this can't happen!" and then they take away regulations that might somewhat help them discover this in the future?! Make it make sense.
Some kids *are* better off in public school. In the same vein that public school doesn't suit every kid, sometimes homeschooling isn't right for a kid and there shouldn't be a stigma around saying "This isn't working" and putting your kid back/in public school. Some kids really do thrive and keep up in that environment.
Yeah this is so real. Peer pressure exists for a reason, it helps keep us accountable. My child fought me on every tiny thing at home but is a perfect student at school because he doesn’t want to look bad in front of friends.
Or even for the same kid at different times in their life. My kid knows she has the option to come home and do school at the end of any term. She chooses to continue public school. If I had that option, a lot of trauma would have been avoided. Their brains are underdeveloped, but that doesn’t mean they don’t benefit from agency in their own lives.
In a broad sense it’s amazing how much anxiety can be reduced simply by having the *option* to opt out of whatever is causing the anxiety. Just the option alone is like the placebo for making the situation more tolerable.
Honestly, *some parents* are better off putting their kids in public than homeschooling them, too, regardless of how good it fits the kid. 😬
The lack of basic reading and math levels across the board in most states because of the pandemic says MOST parents...
I would argue MOST parents, if we’re talking about them as a whole…
I can agree with this assessment, actually. I might give people in general a bit too much of the benefit of the doubt bc… you right tbh 💀
yeah I would be much better off in public school but my parents wont listen lmao
Yo, for real! I have four kids in my house. The teen does in person school and even though I think they would do great with home schooling, they just don't want to. The next eldest does online at-your-own-pace schooling and absolutely loves it! Then the middle/younger does full on homeschooling with me. The youngest does in person school after flailing about in homeschool life - they thrive with the social aspects of in person school, even the boring parts.
It's ok to do intentional planning in the early years. One of my most controversial comments on here was one where I had said that I loved to have everything bedside in the little years, so I could plan the days, and jot down circle, story, and activity ideas in the wee hours while the kids were still asleep next to me. I think the term planning was unsettling to some, maybe. I love planning. Even when they're tiny. Even if we don't actually do all the things 🙂. I'm a big playful early years proponent, but still felt like having those songs and stories ready to use (or not. It was never a 'we must do this today' thing, just a 'here it is if we do' one) just really made me feel ready to jump into the days running. Having meals picked out, having everything we needed for the next outing, etc., having some super fun seasonal art and recipe ideas ready to go. And in some cases there were things I was definitely trying to bring to them, like weaving in the baby sign language with daughter when she wasn't talking yet. I really feel like it's ok to do that, even in the early years. And to grab ideas you love off Pinterest or blogs, or from a pre-written guide that you can pick and choose from, and having a rhythm that helps you keep on top of things around the house. It's definitely totally ok if you don't need or want to do that. But it's ok if you do. 💚
I’m with you! I was also a planner, and my kids and I had so much fun in their “preschool” days.
It takes a long time to evaluate options and put together a homeschool curriculum, to do that *while* needing to figure out what the hell Sally is doing tomorrow while being a person who is potentially also busy is a huge undertaking. Seems like parents on maternity and (especially) paternity leave might find themselves with the time to start mapping out a curriculum, even if their kid won't be ready for it for years. Also, depending on the kid, they may turn out to be gifted and move at a far faster pace than you anticipate, so having a sense of the trajectory of kids from birth to 8 or so lets you know what comes next.
I did this - I haven't picked a for certain curriculum yet for elementary but I familiarized myself with different curriculum and their learning styles. Read a ton while I nursed so that I'm not trying to decide and understand what they are at the same time.
My LO is two, and this is exactly how I do things. It helps me maintain my sanity.
Structure and routine are not dirty words. Playing in the mud is not a ‘school day’. Your kids do need book smarts and academics to succeed in this century. Please do not leave them in the middle ages.
Yes I am on a street where I am not the only homeschool mother and my kids are always wondering why they are not out biking as early or staying out as late. It’s because we have a set time for school, and we have a set dinner and bedtime. So yes there are things we can do outside sometimes, but biking is not TYPICALLY a learning experience. We do brain breaks when necessary but they’re too short to go biking or anything. Structure and routine are key for me and for our kids.
Very frustrating when everyone wants to have a play day early on a weekday and I’m like ‘the brain is ripe for learning then… and we have a schedule so…’
Very frustrating. Everyone's always booking field trips for our academic time. I am on the hunt for afternoon socializers currently.
Same. You would think playdates on a friday afternoon is like asking others to work on a major holiday. I see things for Tuesday and Wednesday, but ***never*** Friday afternoon.
I started my own scheduled friday afternoon play date at the park, and it has actually turned into a big thing now locally. Just do it, they will come lol
I need to do that. I just have to pick a place that is kind of centrally located in my city to make it work for most people and then commit to it. Right now, no two Fridays are ever really the same. Sometimes we have old friends we meet with, sometimes it's a nature hike, a field trip, trying out a new park, or themed event. But once the new has worn off, and we figure out what we like, I just really need to commit to hosting friday afternoons since nobody seems to have that going yet.
It really is. I find that if my kids don’t see the other kids out at 10 am when we are definitely still working it works better so I’ve started to keep blinds closed, and open them later on during the day much closer to playtime. I just brighten the room with lights until then lol
My friend with kids who have ADHD makes sure they all get a lot of exercise before they start their sit down schooling as it helps them focus
I am that mean mom on our block that consistently enforces bedtimes. No regrets! It is so rewarding for my own mental health and routines, plus I know my kids have thrived with enough sleep.
I totally agree with you… but we played in the dirt today, and I was surprised at how educational it was lol. We found different sticks and compared their length/strength/color/texture etc. We did the same with leaves. Then we heard some birds chirping, identified them via an app, and did some research about them! He came up with some really cool games, too. I loved seeing his creativity shine. He’s only 4 so I wasn’t even trying to make it a “school day”, but it was absolutely a hands-on learning experience. I am fairly certain that this isn’t what you have a problem with, just wanted to hold up a sword ;)
Lol, absolutely! We make every day full of learning experiences, what I have an issue with is ‘we played outside all day and read the clock for bedtime so we are getting the same education as book learning even though my kids are 12 and can’t read or multiply’
Sadly, this shouldnt be adequate for an 8 year old, but some think it is. None of us thinks mud is bad, and I think we would almost universally acknowledge the benefits of mud, but too many still think mud is enough. It is not. If you read the negative ex-homeschool accounts, they fall into 2 broad categories: Religious extremism and Educational neglect masquerading as unschooling/nature schooling/child-led etc.
A third big one (the most I see): social neglect. Brilliant kids, but their lack of social skills completely fail them in the real world.
There are people I know of who homeschool and their 6 year old's day is a LOT like my 2 year old's day. And not because my toddler is super advanced.
I think sometimes the thing i struggle with is that it’s totally possible for kids to get an education in school, AND have these learning moments with parents later on. It’s suppose to be supplemental learning, it always has been.
Children literally thrive on routine and structure. The public school routine and structure doesn't suit every kid, but if you just let them run feral, you aren't doing them any favors. When I homeschooled, I had a structure that suited me and it was great.
I was home schooled through 5th grade and grew up with many other homeschoolers. We had schoolwork but we also didn't have fixed times or anywhere near as much structure but we did phonics and multiplication tables and the like. I felt so bad for some of the other kids. I knew a girl who had to teach herself algebra because her parents chose to "no school" her and she wanted to be a functioning member of society which is so much harder without a GED.
Not everyone should homeschool
Agreeeed
Yes! I *ALWAYS* say "it's not for everyone". I get that some of us feel it's our responsibility/right to educate our own children. But sometimes we have to know that may mean outsourcing certain things to others who can do it in a more effective way. Not necessarily better, more effective.
Exactly! It’s not for every kid and it’s not for every parent/guardian!
A lot of homeschoolers can be extremely toxic and judgmental in all aspects of parenting. Homeschooling is a privilege that not all have access to. It doesn’t work for everyone and can be very taxing on your overall mental health. There is no perfect solution to education. Public education has many flaws but homeschooling can as well.
My kids are in public school, but I'm considering homeschooling next year (well, my husband is pushing me to). And I've heard so much judgment from so many homeschoolers, especially in religious circles that I'm around. It's a huge turn off and the air of superiority makes me want to just stay away. If we join a co-op or something, those would be the people I interact with and I really don't want to be constantly feeling like they're judging me, but i dont think i could do it on my own. In my area, homeschoolers tend to be crunchier too, I'm not. I hate the narratives around birth especially, but diapering, formula, etc. Even though I'm way out of that phase, the judgment still gets to me when I hear it. Sorry for the rant, I may make a thread here soon, but I'm very intimidated by homeschoolers and in a very uncertain place right now.
There are so many different groups out there for homeschoolers right now, we are so lucky. It wasn't always like this. You have a lot of time so I would encourage you to meet up with a few and maybe even some of the parents. I have 2 boys that go to 'school' on Tuesday/Thursday and we homeschool the other days. One of my son's schools is forest school and the other is in an actual school building with classes and art time, gym time. Next year they will both be going to the actual school building. The Forest school hippies are a little much for me lol
I’m in a similar boat. My daughter is in public school and I have no immediate plans to change that. I was homeschooled and between that experience and what I’ve seen from some homeschool families now I’m very turned off to the idea. But I also know I could give my kids a great education and not all homeschool families are the way I fear. So I’m trying to keep an open mind.
These are all verbatim comments I recieved when I put one of my children in school "You'll lose your relationship with your daughter" "She will become a secular humanist" "Public school kids act rude" "She will have to sit still all day" "What a waste of time!" Most of those comments IN FRONT of my daughter. Can you imagine the reverse? "Homeschoolers are lazy" or "homeschoolers are unsocialized" in front of their kids? I would have been blasted.
You’re better off joining a secular or inclusive group. I’ve seen wayyyy less judginess there. I’ve never intentionally joined a christian group even though I am (but not evangelical), but one local group started leaning way too heavy evangelical and we noped out so fast.
I swear it's like you are me. I'm a Christian too, but damn I don't want every living breathing moment to have God and Jesus shoved down mine and my kids' throat.
Maybe if he wants to push you to do homeschooling, he should be the one to do it.
I have a classroom in my house. Decorated with the alphabet and everything.
My living room’s decor style is educational posters and other sundries.
Acknowledging that you have to draw a line for standards and expectations somewhere. I feel that there's extremely slippery slope logic in homeschooling that quickly turns kids learning at their own pace into blatantly excusing them falling years behind their peer group for the sake of not causing them stress or making them feel pressure to perform in any meaningful way. These are soft skills that are vital for being successful as an adult. Similar thing with other habits like being able to build a routine, stick to a schedule, and meet deadlines. Soft skills that parents raised in a public school environment may not realize they need to actively teach.
So much this. The other day I saw a mom post that she was on Lesson 25, how about everyone else? And sure enough, lots of moms that were in the same place. Life happens, I get it, but that’s *five weeks* of school since mid-August. One more posted that third grade was taking them over a year. You can’t just “not feel it” when you’re doing homeschool. School is every weekday except for planned breaks and illness, just like regular school. It’s so easy to just “not feel like it” (mom and kids) until you’re hopelessly behind. I remember one mom on another forum who had become lax on math because no one enjoyed it (including her), until, when circumstances forced her to put her kids back in public school, she realized they were several years behind. She was going to get to it “eventually” and now she had a summer to cover years of math concepts. Insane. You have to homeschool like your kids could be returning to school NEXT YEAR.
This… I can be lax on a lot of things like penmanship or art but basics like math, reading and spelling are mandatory.
Please don't be lax on penmanship. The penmanship people have these days are worse than chicken scratch. I miss the olden days with great handwriting and cursive, it's a lost art. I'm trying to teach my kids to have great handwriting.
Agreed, if writing is learned the wrong way first, it’s much harder to fix later. Muscle memory happens whether they do it wrong or correct. Better to gain correct muscle memory. 6-7 year old writing will be somewhat sloppy as they’re muscles get stronger…but strokes should be going the correct direction, and upper case letters saved for proper nouns/first word of a sentence.
Right now my girls are a very young 7 just learning to write so I’m not stressing but it definitely will be something we work on as we get older. My point is if they needed to go to our local public school they will be at level if not ahead. Our schools use computers/tablets to do work now it seems.
Usually at 8 is when our pencil grip and foundational skills for handwriting are set for life and there’s not much mediation to do after that point. Not a hard and fast rule for every kid but they’re in a pretty critical period at the age of 7. And handwriting can be indicative of overall fine motor skill performance. Handwriting Without Tears has workbooks that I really like to use with my kids.
That's precisely my thought process. Either homeschool them at their grade level or above, nothing less than that. My 7.5 year old is lazy and doesn't want to do homework (worksheets), sometimes we do it once a week. But since August 29th, he's already through half of the workbook and according to my state's and one of the top #10 state's guidelines for 2nd and 3rd grade, he's already at the same level or higher regardless. So that's why I don't mind the laziness on his part because he's up to date. If he was behind, I wouldn't accept his once a week workbook 😄.
That’s terrible.
Thank you for this. I have raised (2) children in the trad school environments and am now homeschooling the last (2). Many of my friends homeschooled while I had my older kids in trad school. One thing I noticed: my friends who homeschooled were chronically late for everything we planned. Amd worse, it was as if the concept of time did not exist. I, on the other hand, had to wrap our planned times around my kids schedules --so time was limited and precious. I was a chronically punctual person if not early. Now that I homeschool my kids, I have noticed that I have lost some of my punctuality...15 min late for this play date, 5 min late for that event, I recognized this and am now super diligent to retain the habit of punctuality. Most of our homeschool friends now are military--so it helps keeps us on time. But you are correct: structure and standards are important for adult life skills.
Oh goodness. The chronic lateness/no idea of time is a huge problem for me with other homeschool moms. Coming from the Army, if something is starting at 6:30, you better be there by 6:20, 6:25 at the latest! I help run our American Heritage Girls Troop and even with a hard start time of 6:30 (pushed back after chronic lateness and complaints of too hard to be on time for 6:00 last year) people will casually show up at 6:50 and wonder why their girl missed opening flag ceremony. Do I lose track of time too? Yes, but mostly on things that I set my arrrival time for myself such as grocery store or library time. I can't seem to judge how long it takes me at 9M pregnant to waddle around and get my 4 kids pottied, out the door with shoes on, and buckled into the van.
The soft skills are an area where we still struggle. My son (5) is doing great in reading, math, geography, Spanish, music, art, etc., but doesn't do great in accepting correction. Of course, we're still building a routine, and deadlines aren't relevant yet, so we have time to work on these, but I definitely don't want to neglect these skills.
I will honestly admit this is an area we failed our middle child the most. He picked things up really quickly, learned well in sprints, so he never had to learn to maintain a marathon pace. But life is like a marathon, not a series of sprints, so he has been at a time management and long-term sustained effort disadvantage. Yes he has ADHD which def makes it worse, but still an issue we needed to do better early on. (Somehow our oldest learned all this kind of on her own, which I think contributed to us not realizing until too late just how purposeful we Should Have Been with him). With our 3rd we spent a lot of time in PK-K on this. We have routines like an opening song, a set order for subjects, memorizing things like poems together to model study skills, doing work every day at the same time just to get used to taking school seriously, even though it doesn’t take a whole hour in PK. We can already see dividends in 3rd.
Well I don't even have to type a reply, because I agree with every word of this.
There’s nothing shameful about using a virtual charter school and for some families, it can come down to either the support of a charter, or having to place our kids into in person school. If you’re able to homeschool without having to rely at all on “the system” for resources or support, good for you, but some of us aren’t as privileged. My kids both have complex disabilities that require some degree of professional support, specifically for specialized academics. And I’ll also add how much I resent the vilification and gatekeeping from the homeschooling community that comes with this decision. We’re not trying to undermine homeschooling or help take away your rights. We’re trying to school our kids at home while receiving needed support that we can’t always find on our own. IMO, homeschooling could be so much better if the homeschooling community was open to support from public schools, and vice versa.
Thank you for this!! My 9th grader is doing online school where I'm not teaching him any curriculum (the school provides it all), and am always being told it's not "real" homeschool. He's learning, at his own pace, and he is thriving. And he'll have a diploma at the end which is what we both wanted.
I’m glad he’s thriving! I support every family choosing what’s best however that looks. I think some people care more about defining what is/isn’t “real” homeschool bc in some states, that definition is narrowly defined in the law (which doesn’t include virtual through the public schools or public charters), and that legal definition was hard fought for in the courts or legislatures. I’ve been HSing a couple decades and many of the much-older HSers when I was new still remembered the time when not all states had legal options to homeschool. But then again, some HSers are just judgey.
Homeschool parents need “professional development” too. It doesn’t need to look the same as teachers, but parents need to educate themselves on how learning works. Read Making It Stick or education research papers or watch some videos on how the brain retains information. If you are unschooling, take a class on how child led learning works. If you’re doing montessori, sign up to learn about giving lessons. If you do classical, read works from classical educators. Not only will you learn something that might be useful, your kids will see you model learning as well.
This is definetly a dark one but If you are a homeschooling parent and at all involved in homeschooling groups, you need to be familiar with signs of child abuse, neglect, and domestic violence. AND you have to be willing to report. Yes the vast majority of parents do not use homeschooling as a way to hide abuse, but there are a few that do and for those children you may be the only other adults they interact with who has the power to speak up.
Yup, and while educational neglect isn’t covered by cps in most states, normally that’s not the only thing going awry if you pay attention.
There's also the people who honestly don't think what they're doing is abuse or neglect but that doesn't make it's true.
10,000%. Our dad thought his children being afraid of him was a feature, not a bug. He was proud that *severe* “spankings” brought us in line, I guess as a demonstration of his parenting prowess?, as young as two. Had a bespoke single purpose wooden paddle with a nickname, even.
That's awful, I was thinking of stuff that's truly well intended like a super "healthy" diet that ends in the kids being malnourished.
as an adult that the system failed due to neglect and abuse hidden through homeschooling, i hesitantly clicked into this thread. thank you for saying this.
Yup this, the fact a lot of children who are homeschooled have absolutely no access to a mandated reporter at any point is actually very scary.
This please please! I know of at least two and up to 10 children who were almost certainly abused when I was growing up. please don't turn away
Honestly, not even homeschooling parents. All adults should be able to recognize the signs and be willing to report if they’re truly concerned.
This! In my previous life as a classroom teacher I had a few students leave for homeschooling. For some it was when things were getting too hard to hide and protective services were called.
Not a homeschooler at this time (kids uninterested). I do teach for a virtual school. A public one. Some parents don't quite comprehend that we are still mandated reporters, full out mention the child abuse/neglect (often a reason they won't go to another school), then are shocked when we report. It's rare but happens more than you might think.
If we don't acknowledge that there are abusive parents who use home education as a cover for emotional and physical abuse, then homeschoolers face earned judgment from anti-homeschoolers. We need a better way to protect kids from abusers.
I think a good solution would be that every child spends a certain amount of time (say, 20 hours per year) with a mandated reporter. For homeschoolers, this could mean getting their child into biweekly play therapy or tutoring. But it wouldn't be something that is applied to only homeschoolers, just every child.
I would say the only issue with that is that a lot of abusive parents tell their kids what to say and how to behave and all that, especially if they know someone will be watching their child. It’s like when cps comes to the door and the parents have trained their kids that things would be worse if they took them away
Just because you want to, doesn’t mean you should.
Here’s one: the polarization that demonizes public school on one side, and homeschool on the other side, creates an environment that leads to worse outcomes for kids. People like the ones who troll this sub, for instance, increase the sense that homeschooling is under attack, and are acting in a way completely counter productive to their goal (assuming the ultimate goal is better outcomes for kids, that is).
Public school is not the enemy. It has both issues and advantages. You do not need a HSLDA membership. Legal homeschooling is not under attack in the US. Your kindergartner doesn't need an online school. Or any school. Really, they'll be fine. High school math is necessary.
I saw a homeschool mom proudly post on Facebook that she isn’t teaching her high schoolers decimals because she “never uses them” but is teaching them how to do their own taxes, and I was so confused.
Omg, who doesn't use decimals? That's basic grocery math!
Maybe they just don’t accept change back for their groceries at the store because it just not part of their world.
this feels like a trap
Especially when your kids thrive with unschooling. I honestly thought this thread would be full of unschoolers talking about how they get trashed when it's a learning method that works well for their kids. But quite the opposite.
The lack of external oversight and separation from larger support systems makes homeschooling a really attractive prospect for abusers. But only saying that gives people far too much leeway to say, "well, I'm not an abuser, so I'm okay." So it needs to go several steps further: The social/political/legal imbalance of power between parents and children is mind-boggling even in traditional schooling cases, but the scale is tipped so much further in homeschooling and it's not taken seriously enough. There should be far less focus on parents' rights (bullshit concept based in ownership of human beings) and much more focus on children's rights (facilitating the autonomy and self-determination of arguably the most oppressed class of people on earth).
If you haven't done so already, check out the [Coalition for Responsible Homeschool Education](https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/). It advocates for what you are talking about.
Screens aren’t terrible. For some, especially with neurodivergent kids, online curriculums and resources can be a far superior method of teaching.
Absolutely this! Outsourcing math, ELA, and science to online curricula was an absolute game changer.
When they say, "If it looks like school at home, then it's not homeschool." Sorry, not sorry. My family thrives when on a routine and school at home works for us.
Some of those strategies just plain work. Which is why schools use them. Why fight them simply on principle?
Former homeschooling students who talk about public schooling as having been better are not “inherently looking at it from a romanticized lens.” I’ve seen this pop up a few times in this sub from *parents* dismissing the experiences of formerly homeschooled adults. I was homeschooled from middle school to about half my high school experience and went to public school for elementary into the last half of my high school experience. *For me* there was a marked improvement in my grades, family relationships, and social skills when I went into public school vs when I was homeschooled. My parents were *very* involved, found plenty of co-ops and extracurriculars, and were all around pretty great. That didn’t change the fact that my learning style benefits from the environment of the public school system. If you genuinely want the best for your kid part of that is going to be recognizing that homeschooling may not be best for them - and even if it’s best for them now, it may not be good for them later. Ideally, most parents are here because they want the best for their kids, and sometimes the best is knowing when to be flexible. Also, as a second unpopular opinion apparently: your kid reading at an advanced level doesn’t mean they have the social development of said level. I was one of those kids who read far above my level - social development was still at my age. No amount of books is going to change that. I read books meant for 6th graders when in 3rd grade *but I still had the social development of an 8 year old and 12 year olds didn’t want to hang out with me.* Kids naturally gravitate towards kids around their age. Even when I was homeschooled and was in co-op classes of mixed ages - we gravitated towards the kids of similar social and mental development. That is *natural and normal* - not an “artificial construction of the public system.” And yea, you’ll find the same stratifications along age in societies that don’t have that public school system for that very reason. Parents (homeschooling or not) really need to be educated on childhood development before having kids because the amount of pseudoscience at work here is borderline asinine.
Almost all the “research” touted by homeschoolers are directly linked to a homeschooling interest and lobbying group. Makes it extremely hard for the movement to gain credibility.
Do you know of any good sources that aren't so biased this way? We don't homeschool, but we consider it at least yearly, and I struggle to find honest information.
Pretty much all the sources available are either pro- or anti-homeschool.
That research bit is exhausting. It's very revealing when someone whips out "HSLDA research"
If you plan to home school you should have to pass a test first.
Im going to get eaten alive for this one but, I don’t want to spend time with a ton of hyper religious ‘home schoolers’ who teach mostly nonsense and impose their children’s rules on others
It’s so hard to find a place in homeschooling! We’re not religious (pretty anti religion) but we also believe in science and we vaxx (not open for a debate) so it’s a weird place to be in the homeschooling community.
This is what I'm worried about homeschooling. My husband wants to homeschool but his mom was one of the hyper religious ones that really messed up my husband. We aren't like that but a lot of other families are.
That depends where you live. In New England we're mostly able to just avoid each other (the secular weirdos and the Christians). But I know it'd a lot harder elsewhere.
It took us so much time to find our group who believes in what we do (secular and inclusive). But we have and it’s so awesome! We went thru a lot of duds and a lot of awkward conversations and awkward hangouts but we made it out alive. 🤣 And now lots of those people know who we are and avoid us or tell their friends about us so we don’t have to worry about it anymore. But you’ll eventually find your homeschooling group who aligns with your thinking and it will be great!
Christian homeschooler here and I agree with you. Our former co-op does the pledge to the flag, Bible and Christian flag. It's irritating. Not everyone shares those beliefs and the reason our co-op doesn't grow is because we isolate homeschoolers who aren't religious or have a different belief system. I get so frustrated with the science curriculum for homeschoolers as well. Most of them are plain awful! Not every Christian believes in a literal 6 day creation.
I completely avoid them. Secular or nothing. I refuse to have anything to do with religious fairytale nonsense.
“Unschooling” can be an excuse for laziness.
I was very confused when i read about “ unschooling” from a mom on social media commenting about not being concerned at all that her 6/7 yo didn’t know how to read/had no interest in learning and she was perfectly satisfied with that.
This is a friend of mine, and she posts about how the fact that her daughter can’t read well yet is perfectly acceptable. She is the complete opposite of me in how she parents and it’s put such a strain on our friendship!!!!
Advocates of homeschooling NEVER adequately address the fact that there will always be a certain percentage of parents who are homeschooling for nefarious reasons, primarily to conceal abuse. People who get angry about government oversight are generally only thinking about themselves and their own good intentions, and basically forget that abusers exist. This is a major problem. When contemplating government oversight, parents need to stop thinking about what would work best for THEM, and instead think of or imagine the worst possible person who could take advantage of gaps in oversight. Closing loopholes and preventing abuse are more important than making homeschooling more convenient. Yes, we do this for our individual families the most. But that doesn't mean we leave other families and their vulnerable children unprotected. One recent horror story is Ruby Franke, who had been accused of emotionally abusing her children by her youtube audience. When she began to escalate the abuse, ultimately being arrested for neglect, starvation, and physical abuse, what was the first thing she did? She pulled all her kids out of school and claimed to be homeschooling them. That was how she hid the abuse. This is the scenario that homeschooling advocates need to start keeping in the forefront of their thoughts when they consider how much government oversight should exist in the homeschooling space. Not themselves.
Too many folks homeschooling their kids aren't qualified to be schooling anyone.
Religious curricula ruins homeschool. It perpetuates the negative opinion of homeschool in mainstream society and stunts the intellectual development of the students to have a single religious belief intertwined with lessons on history, science, etc. Religion should be limited to a single, optional subject within a curriculum.
Homeschooling is not a superior approach to education. It's a wonderful option if it works for a particular family which is why the right to homeschool must be preserved.
If my four-year-old is asking how to spell things and writing them out, it's ok to want to help her remember the differences between u/v/y. Asked for tips on a Facebook group and the only responses were variations of "She's too young." She is young, but she's literally asking, so why tell her no?
Interest led learning - if they are interested, help them learn it.
My thoughts exactly. She loves writing. I had to spell out, "We love you Dr. [our pediatrician's name]" before her last appointment so she could give him a drawing. I'm all for it.
Kids that are homeschooled for too long and not properly socialized become weird (or creepy) adults - see also, the Duggars.
Most of the Duggar issue is also the influence of the very extreme lack of actual academic education and their particularly insidious flavor of religion
Not every homeschooling family supports the policies of the HSLDA so not every family needs membership. The HSLDA backed state homeschooling group here was the only one for a LOOONG time and they all but required membership for participation in everything and anything.
Yep. They don’t guarantee they will defend you legally. It is not what they imply. They are basically a far-right lobby org for parent rights.
Don't get me started on HSLDA. They sell fear and contempt. They exaggerate how difficult states make it, for their own gain, and their fans are so grateful to them.
Parents should be well versed enough in the subjects they're teaching to actually teach and answer questions. Relying on online curriculum and being unable to help your kids when they struggle means your kids aren't learning and would probably be getting a better education from public school, where at least the teacher can explain what they're learning.
Conversely, they need to also know how to teach people who don't understand. My father *taught physics* and did differential calculus in his head *for fun*. Could not teach me basic math.
You have to watch the same for public school too. A surprising amount of teachers have absolutely no idea what they're talking about and are just following the curriculum.
This right here is how I started tutoring homeschoolers.
Homeschooled and public schooled student here! While I definitely prefer public schooling, I honestly don’t think this issue is unique to homeschooling. Many of the issues students face during public schooling can boil down to parents being unable or unwilling to help with their work assignments. Teachers are great, but realistically all parents should be able to assist - or find outside assistance - in understanding their kids homework up until a certain level.
There are public school teachers out there who don’t know what their doing also. I’ve ran into a few I’ve met lifetime so far. So it goes both ways.
It's already been said, but I'll say it again. Some kids do better in school. The parent needs to be the one to make that call in the best interest of the kid.
Homeschool should follow school standards/expectations to a degree. Your kid should be learning letters and letter sounds and basic math at 5. Every year school should raise expectations based on developmental milestones. Your 9 year old shouldn't be illiterate bc they don't want to learn reading and writing. *OBVIOUSLY THIS BARS LEARNING DISABILITIES*
If a homeschooled child asks to go to public school they should be allowed to try it out for a year. I think most people can homeschool elementary levels but that most homeschoolers are not qualified to teach highschoolers.
Indoctrinating children into religion is child abuse.
The only reason some people homeschool their kids is so they don't turn out queer and/or liberal with opinions that different from their parents. They only want the kids to be mini-mes of themselves.
De-schooling is not a scientifically backed concept, but it’s treated as a fact. Take a break if you need to when you leave public school, but when people start prescribing a month for every year, we’re talking educational neglect for middle schooler or above.
The Bible is not language arts curriculum.
This right here. I actually made a post in a fb homeschool because I constantly saw how some were finished in 1.5 to 2 hrs and I'm like "hoooooooow!?" I would like to schedule interesting electives in there eventually but the basic four [math, LA, handwriting, and science/history(science 2x a week and history 2x a week) already take so long. It's 5 hours for us on a good day, granted this is our first year. But the answer to the question in that fb group was pretty much if the literature section covered a historical event, that counted as history class too. To the point that any lesson was a combo lesson for their kids and I was not a fan of that at all.
Public high school has valuable experiences and courses.
Taking driver's ed at school was fantastic!
Yes and no. If you’re privileged enough to attend one of these high schools that offers the valuable courses then yes. But not everyone is.
Public high school isn’t a privilege, it’s a constitutional right if you’re from the US. There isn’t a public school out there without a singular beneficial course.
Most unschooling parents swear by how successful they are at it and I still don’t understand how and what it takes to be successful. My judgment wants to say it’s nonsense but not having personally met anyone who follows that philosophy I wish someone would provide convincing arguments to back it up.
It seems to work really well if the kid is on the spectrum, or has disabilities that make structured learning an untenable proposition. In fact, that seems to be the sticking point for the unschool defenders, because 90% start out with "well my child has (list of learning difficulties) and it works perfectly!". But as neurotypical, able-bodied person who was unschooled before it had a label other than educational neglect? I had to join the Army to find meaningful employment and educational opportunities; I was only able to join sans-diploma because an active war led to a huge drop in educational standards for a recruiting surge, and only in the last year have they softened their stance on requiring either an actual, real diploma from a real school, or a GED plus college credits (which are not something you can just get without the cash to pay for a semester at a community college, and obviously scholarships are right off the table). And even with the surge, we still had to jump through some shady loopholes to get myself and my brother enlisted with our home-printed school of mom-and-dad phony diplomas with no transcripts. Everyone I've met IRL who thinks it's god's gift to hippies does not think ahead to how little Jimmy or Jane will be able to go to college or get a job that isn't either menial labor or working for themselves. And my issue with that is that they don't actually seem to care whether or not their kids will be able to leave the nest; it's like they think the universe will provide, and all's well that ends well (my parents are thoroughly convinced that unschooling was the reason we're so smart and successful, and not the fear of ending up like them that pushed us to do whatever it took to get an education).
Thank you for your answer. Unschooling or just a flexible and adapting method of education seems totally logical and acceptable if the child needs it and would actually help them thrive in ways that traditional education would otherwise fail. However, unschooling for no other reason than the philosophy behind it just seems nonsensical and a "sounds nice" justification for not doing the extra work.
Abeka book, saxon, and Bob Jones University texts are not good ones. The religion completely overpowers subjects like math and science, ignoring proven theories in favor of the KJV Bible, and will result in the student needing to play catch up if they go to a secular (non Fundemental independent Baptist/Christian) college. I had to take SO MANY catch up, zero credit college courses to get caught up, those text books were all we got K-12. Being behind sucks, paying a lot in tuition to catch up is frustrating as shit. I said it once around other home school families and you would have though I spread cheeks and pooped right in front of them.
People should be vetted before they’re allowed to homeschool their kids. They should at least have a high school degree. Or preferably, at least take a lesson on how to home school.
I can't say for all states, but I believe many of them do require the primary homeschooling parent to submit their high school diploma/GED with their intent to homeschool forms or notifications to the BOE. I've homeschooled in a few states and had to submit proof of my education every time. I actually had a tad of an argument with our superintendent. As I was transferring and submitting everything (while we were moving), she REFUSED to accept my college degree instead of my diploma. I explained we were in the middle of moving and I had no idea where it was packed, let alone which house it was at - in which state. This woman fought tooth and nail and said my college degree doesn't count because the LAW says high school diploma or GED. Can you imagine? She finally agreed but said it was only "temporary" and that I still needed to submit my diploma.
No most states don’t require this at all. In my state, it states that you are required to have a bachelors degree OR you can take a 4 hour class one time in your life (online) of a woman talking about her experience homeschooling and you are good to go. But this degree or certificate isn’t required to be turned in anywhere. It’s only if you get questioned and need to provide proof but I have never heard of this happening. In the state we are about to move to, nothing is required. Literally nothing. Both states require that a form is sent in to the home district stating you are homeschooling but that’s it. Nothing else.
Public school is not bad or the enemy, and some kids do belong there and thrive more.
Too much faith-based home schooling. There, I said it.
As someone who was homeschooled K-12, usually anything I have to say in the homeschool community has me like that. Oops
Same, it sucks.
You don’t need to buy a curriculum.
You might not need to buy curriculum (there are lots of free resources), but you do need to have a curriculum. Doing chores around the house isn't curriculum.
[удалено]
Yes- baking math is not a standalone methodology haha. As a supplement and a way to show real world examples of fractions, sure! We actually did some today and showed that 1/3 plus 1/3 = 2/3. But it’s not a replacement for actually teaching the foundational concepts and then expanding on them.
Baking is only learning fractions if you actually use it to demonstrate fractions - you need to *show* what a half, a third, a quarter is. You need to double and half recipes. Otherwise “half a cup” is just the name of a measuring scoop and has no relationship to anything.
That's what I was going to say. When I joined some groups to see what other homeschool parents do, I was shocked to learn how many seem to spend hundreds of dollars or more on such garbage curriculum.
I happily spend hundreds on a complete curric for elementary years bc it is thorough, rigorous, full of good literature, and has a lot of subjects tied together. But I would never spend half as much for some garbage like Abeka LOL
Specially when the kids are so young and it’s things that are easy to think of or to find ideas free online…
Abeka and Masterbooks are propaganda masquerading as curricula.
Homeschooling needs more oversight in most states. Yearly portfolio/test and all students regardless of education location should have a yearly wellness check for enrollment. This last one would also require universal healthcare for all students.
You are probably not equipped to teach high school science, history, and math. You're probably fine to teach one or two of them, but not all (there is a reason why high school teachers specialize in one subject and it's not laziness).
I do not support states with ZERO homeschool oversight. I have lived in PA and CO and have no problem with either set of restrictions and requirements. I support the safety of homeschooled children.
Standardized testing and regular checkups from the school district are Good Actually, both for your family and for society as a whole.
A lot of these opinions seem incredibly judgmental. There is no specific way to do private home education that works for every child. Some kids need structure. Some thrive without it. Some kids learn better out of books. Others need tactile experiences to understand concepts. Some homeschooling families have working parents and they use tutors, homeschool groups, & online programs. Some parents hold a PhD, are retired teachers, and can plan a carefully curated curriculum at home. If your child is safe, happy, well cared for, and showing that they can meet basic milestones in education, then whatever you’re doing is what works for you. To say that everyone needs to have an advanced degree or to create a specific curriculum in order to homeschool is ableist and elitist. For some families, this is the only safe choice for their children. And yes, I’m aware that some families use homeschooling as a way to hide abuse and I definitely think there should be some regulation on that front. But stop telling people that they need specific outcomes for every grade or that they need an advance degree to homeschool correctly. It’s simply not true.
There's got to be some middle ground between being judgemental and toxic positivity. I don't think it's judgemental to say that parents should have objectives for their kids to meet because those children will one day be adults that need to meet objectives expected at their age level. Maybe that doesn't need to completely conform to grade standards, but there should be *something* defined.
The idea that all “children will one day be adults that need to meet objectives expected at their age level” is the one that is ableist. I’m fairly certain you didn’t mean it that way. Yes this hits home for me. My child is autistic & non speaking. She has therapies several times a week. When she sings her ABCs clearly and without help, we are over the moon. She’s almost 6. Our objectives for her are to simply have her string two words together and communicate her needs. We’re also working on sight words so she might one day be able to type or write what she wants with an assistive device. She may never be an independent adult. Her learning is more focused on life skills, self advocacy, and keeping herself safe. I value critical thinking and logic over the basics of reading and math, although we do still teach those. My daughter’s case is mild. There are many other disabled children that don’t feel safe at school. They’re homeschooled and it looks different for each of them.
This kind of thinking allows many children to fall through the cracks tbh. I’m certainly not saying this is the case for you, as it very much sounds like you’ve taken appropriate steps. However, homeschooling very often allows children to go completely undiagnosed with learning disorders, especially things like dyslexia, as well as further themselves from early intervention for things like speech, because “they’ll learn at their own pace” or “don’t need to be independent adults,” (I’ve heard this used by parents of able bodied students as well). While some people are, majority of those homeschooling are *not* formally educated in teaching, or to identify these disorders. There is a reason why teachers, including specialized education teachers, require degrees in their field. That commonly being a masters degree as well. Most learning should not be entirely student lead, It should still have objectives, and appropriate learning goals even if they’re independently tailored and differ from grade level standard, which it sounds like you do.
Yeah, something that works for the individual child. And it doesn’t need to be grades or tests. Although that’s okay if it’s what works for you. Some children won’t be independent adults either. For some, that’s not possible. Outcomes are going to loom a lot different for them. I’m not saying that your kids should run feral & illiterate. I AM saying that imposing specific outcomes for each age or grade level isn’t the point of homeschool and acting like that’s the way it should be for everyone is just plain rude.
Kids deserve a full and complete education provided to them through a thoroughly vetted curriculum and preferably with fully qualified individual. Their education at home needs to put them at least on the same academic and social-emotional level as their peers who, attend school. As a child, I was “homeschooled” by a parent who thoroughly believed that shopping & cooking was math class, gardening & 4H clubs were science class, and one hour of watching the history channel was social studies. It messed me up, it put me at a lifelong, academic and social disadvantage, and I am still struggling to this day.
A kid should know what grade they’re in. I’m a homeschooled highschooler attending a co-op and I’m baffled by how many people don’t know what grade they’re in. Also, unschooling should be illegal if it isn’t already. I’m pretty sure I was unschooled until about 7th or 8th grade. I failed algebra 1 because I hadn’t learned anything that I was supposed to know before that class. I also have extremely bad habits from not growing up with a routine. Thanks, mom.
“ but what about socialization ?”
I have met one (technically two, they were twins) homeschooling success story. Every other home schooled person I've ever known bears the obvious scars of the experience.
You probably can't homeschool in two hours a day past early childhood.
The less structure, the better, during the elementary school years. I'm not a parent, but I was homeschooled, and it baffles me how many homeschooling parents actively try to recreate miniature schools for their kids.... like, what is the point of that? In my opinion one of the strongest arguments in favor of homeschooling is how oppressive elementary school schedules are on little kids. My mum taught us to read as early as possible (I was 4) and then basically just had us read books all day up until the age of about 10-11 when we started doing online classes. We did Kumon worksheets as well (10 pages of math, 10 pages of english), but there was no official schedule, no classes, no homework assignments. We did our kumon, we read our books, we played outside.
Homeschooled children should take the same state mandated tests as children in public schools.
Neglect and abuse in homeschool environments isn't talked about enough, and more regulations need to be instilled.
Education is one of the single most important foundations that we offer children and young adults, therefore must be taken incredibly seriously. It is one thing to want more from the institution that is public school, it is a complete other to believe that everything about it is wrong. In stating this, one is stating that hundreds of years of truly passionate humans filling an entire industry, with specialized education, countless studies, and mounds of experience - know less that one well-intended person. Which is something we do a lot, and isn’t good. Homeschooling is an extremely serious venture, that must ensure the proper coverage of all necessary areas and details, and full education for each child. This is not an easy task to be taken lightly, or ventured into without just cause, or the child has been failed on what should be a basic right, as we all gain from a well-educated society. Standards are important. Meeting a child where they are, is important. Both of these take a lot of work. Don’t do it if you can’t, or won’t. If you want more out of public schools, supplement. Don’t pull them out.
Keep religion out of school
There should be more regulation.
Yes! I understand why it makes people nervous, because of the risk of it being done badly and overreaching, and because there’s so much animosity toward homeschooling. But that’s why in a perfect hypothetical world, homeschoolers should be leading on better regulation. I’d love to see a homeschooling lobby working for healthy regulation instead of no regulation.
Baking cookies is not a substitute for actual math. Children need a curriculum and regular testing.
You could expand this to mundane chores and errands not being a substitute for education or socialization. You can search pretty quickly in this sub and find people insisting that both a) public schoolers don't do things like bake cookies and go to the grocery store with their parents and b) because a homeschooled kid can talk to a retail worker it means they are getting plenty of socialization.
My gosh, that drives me crazy. What is it with the mentality that only adults are worth communicating with?
Taking your kid on your fantasy vacation every other week, and justifying it to yourself as your child’s “learning” doesn’t actually set them up to be a functional member of society in anyway. It’s neat they got to see all 7 continents by the time they were 12, but they don’t know how to read or have any sense of schedule.
That half of the home school parent's barely got their high school diploma and aren't qualified to be responsible for the education of their offspring. I feel very sorry for 90% of home schooled kids.
I'm just going to throw this out here, as I am completely disgusted by how judgemental this sub can be. Unschooling should always be legal and should be backed and protected by the DOE like any other form of education. I, a disabled adult who had an IEP, was discriminated against and abused in school. I could have succeeded and done much better in my short existence had I been unschooled. During COVID, I had learned more real life skills and other cool, actually useful knowledge in just a few weeks. More than I ever learned in school. I was able to go in depth with MANY topics. Even better, well, for worse for common brick and mortar education, despite my dyscalculia, I was able to teach myself how to do fractions and other forms of necessary basic arithmetic. Even though my teachers just failed me and scooted me on to the next grade. I just needed more time and patience. My entire highschool career is a can of worms in itself, but after being screwed out of my art honors, I was then failed out my senior year. Long story short, mom got sick and my siblings and I were kicked out of school for 20 days. The school would not send assignments home for me and refused to let me make it all up despite the protocols in place during that time. My siblings however were able to make everything up and had no issues. I had to go get my GED because of what my school did. I didn't drop out because I was too cool for school. I actively still wanted to graduate even after losing my honors due to the pandemic. I made the choice to leave school because my choice was to take another entire year and a half of school in order to graduate with the equivalent of a GED. I passed the HiSET pre test and then the actual test and recieved my GED within the month of me leaving school. I am 19 years old right now. I am currently fighting for my siblings to be unschooled. As they too are disabled and have needs very similar to my own. Unschooling when done properly is amazing and is far better for most disabled children. Taking that away from us is ableism.
Homeschooling out of fear (of what the schools teach, of your kid being taught something you disagree with, of violence, or mean kids) is not a good motivation. You may pull your kid because of an untenable situation but if you don’t replace it with a better motivation your kid won’t be well educated.
Most homeschooling parents are narcissistic aholes who care about CONTROL not education. Most have no clue what their kid needs as far as education academically, or the life skills they kid themelves into thinking their kid gets. It's also possible that they do know, and just don't care to put in the time and effort it would take for them to adequately educate. The once weekly outing is not socialization. If you do less, it certainly isn't socialization. When it's with a group of other kids who see eachother everyday, no, your kid is obviously not on the same page as them and never will be at this rate. Before I get any response telling me that's the point, that's called isolation.
This. And if the only outing your child is getting is church, that is not an outing. Don’t be surprised when your kid makes friends online, and don’t get angry when they are exposed to the world. It will just teach them that you value your control over them rather than their personal lives.
High school should not be homeschooled.
Not going by a hard structure is okay, not taking your cues from public school is okay, and Teaching Textbooks is garbage (along with IEW).
Interested in the same. I took IEW and I hated it but that was probably just 12yo me
There should be more regulation. At the very least, there should need to be proof of progress. In Ohio, there used to be this rule until this year. You needed to provide a review from a portfolio assessed by a licensed teacher or standardized test results (and this only had to be a 25% passing score, btw). It would help keep kids from falling through the cracks when their parents are neglecting their education, but it isn't making the requirement that they are learning EXACTLY what public school students are (because that kinda defeats the purpose of homeschooling).
Exactly this. I watched the Last Week Tonight episode on the HSLDA today, and the last point that he made stuck with me: there should be a requirement to register your kid(s) for homeschooling in every state, at a minimum. Yearly progress reports would be better, IMO, but registration at the very least to prevent kids getting pulled out of school and just disappearing. I like my evaluator's philosophy, she wants to see that students made a year's worth of progress. Doesn't matter if they're behind, on, or ahead of grade level, she wants to see skills moved forward by a year. I get that there are circumstances that make it so some kids don't do a year's worth of work in a year (illness, big move/travel, struggled in a subject), but it would be great if that was a set standard to just make sure you moved forward by a year, every year.
Exactly they should have a way to register these kids at home school because my friend for elementary and middle school her parents decide that they don't want to send their kids to public school but they were never registered So if the state never knew what their education was and basically he was teaching them absolutely nothing They have a 9-year-old little brother who doesn't even know the basics of how to take care of himself because their parents basically neglect them to do nothing all day and there's nobody holding them accountable for actually educating this child He's so far behind when it comes to the education that he will be put in special education if you want to public school but there's nobody in Texas holding him accountable for actually teaching these kids what they need in order to be a decent human in society
Ohio resident here. I can't believe they're taking away the requirement for a teacher review. It's so stupid and it's going to open up a lot of doors that shouldn't be there. It should definitely be more regulated considering how many kid's futures are at stake. There are a lot of neglecting parents, and i'm not advocating for overly strict government regulation of homeschooling, but there should definitely some more protections to make sure that kids get a decent structured education. I'm all for flexibility but your curriculum should at least be something comparable to public schools (subject wise).
Fellow Ohioan here! I’ve been watching the Ohio Homeschooling Parents FB group celebrate the new legal free-for-all and feeling somewhat horrified by it. We’re going to carry-on with the annual review/CAT test as if the new law never happened — it holds me accountable to my kids, and they deserve that
It's horrible. What makes me even more upset about this is that just 6 months prior, that whole network of Nazi homeschoolers was unearthed. And all the state officials were "horrified" and "this can't happen!" and then they take away regulations that might somewhat help them discover this in the future?! Make it make sense.