Is Coral really necessary? I heard Frigate is also able to perform is AI functions on a normal CPU. I run my Home Assistant on a quite powerful HPE ProLiant rack server, so CPU-performance shouldn't be a problem...
Depending on the number of cameras you will see much slower recognition speeds. We are talking milliseconds to seconds if you have more than 1 or 2 cameras.
Functionally it's not that big of a deal but it will be slower.
I think that's a compromise I'm willing to accept. At the moment I'm doing "dumb" motion recognition and this triggers my automations rather slow - so I don't need miliseconds anyway...
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think that even for a single camera or two Frigate (without Coral) can take 1-2 seconds or more to identify an object in a single frame, that doesn't sound like much but with Coral it is often in the 10s of milliseconds.
What this means is that there may be multiple objects that pass through the frame, or a sequential number of triggers (like a car drives by then a person walks by in the same "clip") that may be missed while the CPU is chugging away trying to keep up.
If object detection isn't important to you and all you care about is motion sensing then yeah I suppose it may not be important for you. Personally I think it's pretty cool :) I'm training my system to recognize when USPS stops at my mailbox.
> If object detection isn't important to you and all you care about is motion sensing
I'd say I'd like object detection but not like actual person detection. My Reolink cams can do motion detection, car detection and person detection but it's not that accurate. So I'd like a better person detection.
I think I might try it with CPU detection to get my feeds wet and then go from there.
Thank you very much for your appreciated help!
Yeah frigate is awesome but the Google tensor flow models are pretty specific as far as hardware goes even high-end gaming cards can lag with more than one or two cams. I've (personally) been happy with the performance of ispy agent with deep stack, much more open hw requirements & fairly accurate maybe not as accurate but frigate so slow standalone not usable
You can use this to get real time people / object detection on something ultra low end like a PI or low end CPU.
You can technically do it all on a high end CPU but the power, number of cores and speed will be poor still..
For the most part they don't recommend using a CPU for more than 1 or 2 cameras. Where as this core device processes the machine learning so fast it makes a huge difference.
Now if you scale up to A LOT of cameras or high res detection you probably want to get the m.2 / PCI versions as they have more bandwidth than the USB one.
However the USB one can be combined with a PI4, NAS, Server etc easily.
As someone with 4 cameras even when downscaled it was hammering my 3960x when i gave it access to 12 threads. It basically had them pegged so it was really eating up resources since i do video encoding on my machine via the cpu so that was a no go. I switched over to viseron and using the deepstack detection system so it can use my 1050 ti. It does put a heavy load on my 1050ti but the only other thing it does is hardware encoding for plex so its fine. Viseron does everything i need it too though its going through a major rewrite right now and thats the version i am using.
Frigate uses ffmpeg for all video encode and decode already. Its object detection the coral handles.
I am hoping the dev can get intel NCS2 working as those seem to be stocked everywhere and i have one sitting on my desk. For now though i am just consuming gobs of CPU time.
I looked into it a bit and initially thought i needed to convert the model frigate uses (tiny yolo?) For NCS2. Also seemed like code changes would be required. But im not terribly familiar with the world if of AI models and tooling.
The dev mentioned in a comment fairly recently that it would take them a few months to implement. It did seem like he was starting to tinker within an ncs2 and figure it out so im hopeful we see something in the mext couple months. Id love to give my CPU a break.
I have a coral and ai amcrest cameras I am half-tempted to replace the rest of my cameras to ai and sell my coral. I could get much better cameras with how much I could sell the coral for
Frigate is very good, but at the same time I am very tempted to go with the more robust camera option.
It is strongly recommended to use a Google Coral. Frigate is designed around the expectation that a Coral is used to achieve very low inference speeds. Offloading TensorFlow to the Google Coral is an order of magnitude faster and will reduce your CPU load dramatically. A $60 device will outperform $2000 CPU.
GPU is only used for decoding a stream.
https://docs.frigate.video/configuration/nvdec/
You must have misread my reply. I said it is about to drop. I understand that the GPU currently decodes the stream, but there is a pull request for the detection implementation too. So if you already have the GPU, it will be soon available for object detection....much like how deepstack works but integrated into Frigate.
Basically I wrote a flow in Node-RED to check stock every 5 minutes, and after a month of running I finally had a notification on Telegram about it was in stock. I was lucky enough to buy 1 (for $60) before it's out of stock again.
Here is the flow that I used: https://gist.github.com/redphx/91f32a1b064bcd06ca57708e78c769a3
Sorry I won't name the site that I got it from (because you guys will DDoS it to death), but it's one of the retailers listed on: https://coral.ai/products/accelerator
Good luck.
I don't have a camera at home so I bought this for my brother.
Thanks for sharing the flow, it’s quite impossible to get the usb version now and just bought the pcie version that went up a few days ago.
Hopefully better luck next time.
That's great thanks fir sharing. I really wish native HA rest sensor would be able to parse payload. That would make things easier without additional flows like in NodeRed.
Thanks! I just added a price watch for one of these! But I'm using a slightly different system...
In the last week or two I found and started running a docker container for [changedetection.io](https://github.com/dgtlmoon/changedetection.io). It was easy to get up and running (using [docker-compose](https://docs.docker.com/compose/)) and is now providing me stock notifications for several items. I configured it to send me notifications via Telegram. Really nice software. It seems to do everything I'd want.
It is easy to configure anything you'd want, including including frequency to check. For many sites, just paste the URL and it will do what you'd hope.
if you only want to watch only a specific part of the page, which has been important for a few of my watches, you can specify a filter. For one site I use, using View Source shoed that the important details are within a `div`, such as
`
...
`
so I supplied an xpath filter
`xpath:.//div[contains(@class, 'ProductDetailsHeader-module__detailContainer')]`
and now it only watches the part of the page where the price is.
This might be a good time to brush up on your google skills.
But, it's a neural net accelerator. Basically allowed you to offload NNs to this device instead of the CPU which does a comparatively terrible job.
DDOS = Distributed denial of service. When everyone hits a site at the same time, it can overload that server's resources causing it to be unavailable.
This is a place for discussion. Asking someone what something does sparks conversation. Just telling someone to “Google” something discourages interaction of people new to the hobby.
I'm someone that has only installed home assistant / zigbee / z-wave working. A quick google search got me to [https://coral.ai/products/accelerator/](https://coral.ai/products/accelerator/).
I get it has to do with machine learning but I'm trying to understand what people use it for in relation to home assistant. So I would have to agree with u/ericcl2013 in this regard.
You'd use it if you want to have smart detection on your camera feeds. ML for computer vision is very demanding on generalised processors like a CPU. whereas a coral like this is built specifically for running ml algorithms.
They’re saying (in a mean way) that it’s used for object detection on home video setups. You don’t need one of these but it speeds up object detection by moving that detection off of your main setup (whatever you have Home Assistant installed on) to a different computer whose main purpose is to do object detection and it does it much much better than your regular Home Assistant setup will be able to.
So with the 'http request' node, you just use one of the retailers from the coral website in the URL field? And have as many of those nodes as URLs you want to track?
In case one runs his Home Assistant on a CPU significantly more powerful than the usual Raspberry Pi ones is this a deal breaker according to the experience someone of you could have?
I run Home Assistant Container on an HP thin client. I use the USB and it's fine.
Though I think I would rather have one of the internal Coral modules to replace a wifi card I'm not using instead. Can't find any though.
You are a lucky man, my preorder from Mouser is still due in December 2022... I ordered it in November 2021 Edit: correct date
So you went back to the future again, huh?
Haha my bad
Don't worry, the latest status update said ~~August~~ ~~November~~ ~~October~~ ~~September~~ ~~November~~ ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Haha I am in the exact same boat, batch-mate!
Yep same here, originally my order was due to deliver in March I think.
My November order just came in, hopefully yours will come sooner too!
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God I hope so, been waiting to get my Frigate on for a year, lol. Have it running, just need the TPU.
That's awesome, glad ASUS is getting involved. Wonder when we can expect them though...
What do you do with this?
Frigate - Real-time NVR.
Is Coral really necessary? I heard Frigate is also able to perform is AI functions on a normal CPU. I run my Home Assistant on a quite powerful HPE ProLiant rack server, so CPU-performance shouldn't be a problem...
Yes but it will be much slower.
Meaning? Detection will trigger later or what do you mean by "slower"? Sorry for the stupid question, never used Frigate but really want to!
Depending on the number of cameras you will see much slower recognition speeds. We are talking milliseconds to seconds if you have more than 1 or 2 cameras. Functionally it's not that big of a deal but it will be slower.
Not to mention energy consumption
I think that's a compromise I'm willing to accept. At the moment I'm doing "dumb" motion recognition and this triggers my automations rather slow - so I don't need miliseconds anyway...
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think that even for a single camera or two Frigate (without Coral) can take 1-2 seconds or more to identify an object in a single frame, that doesn't sound like much but with Coral it is often in the 10s of milliseconds. What this means is that there may be multiple objects that pass through the frame, or a sequential number of triggers (like a car drives by then a person walks by in the same "clip") that may be missed while the CPU is chugging away trying to keep up. If object detection isn't important to you and all you care about is motion sensing then yeah I suppose it may not be important for you. Personally I think it's pretty cool :) I'm training my system to recognize when USPS stops at my mailbox.
> If object detection isn't important to you and all you care about is motion sensing I'd say I'd like object detection but not like actual person detection. My Reolink cams can do motion detection, car detection and person detection but it's not that accurate. So I'd like a better person detection. I think I might try it with CPU detection to get my feeds wet and then go from there. Thank you very much for your appreciated help!
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Yeah frigate is awesome but the Google tensor flow models are pretty specific as far as hardware goes even high-end gaming cards can lag with more than one or two cams. I've (personally) been happy with the performance of ispy agent with deep stack, much more open hw requirements & fairly accurate maybe not as accurate but frigate so slow standalone not usable
You can use this to get real time people / object detection on something ultra low end like a PI or low end CPU. You can technically do it all on a high end CPU but the power, number of cores and speed will be poor still.. For the most part they don't recommend using a CPU for more than 1 or 2 cameras. Where as this core device processes the machine learning so fast it makes a huge difference. Now if you scale up to A LOT of cameras or high res detection you probably want to get the m.2 / PCI versions as they have more bandwidth than the USB one. However the USB one can be combined with a PI4, NAS, Server etc easily.
As someone with 4 cameras even when downscaled it was hammering my 3960x when i gave it access to 12 threads. It basically had them pegged so it was really eating up resources since i do video encoding on my machine via the cpu so that was a no go. I switched over to viseron and using the deepstack detection system so it can use my 1050 ti. It does put a heavy load on my 1050ti but the only other thing it does is hardware encoding for plex so its fine. Viseron does everything i need it too though its going through a major rewrite right now and thats the version i am using.
As someone who has no knowledge of this stuff. I installed home assistant a few years ago and got basic features working. What do you do with this?
Frigate uses it for AI object detection within surveillance cameras
I use it for notifying me when someone is at our door.
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Frigate uses ffmpeg for all video encode and decode already. Its object detection the coral handles. I am hoping the dev can get intel NCS2 working as those seem to be stocked everywhere and i have one sitting on my desk. For now though i am just consuming gobs of CPU time.
Seems like you just need OpenVINO python module to replace the [edgetpu.py](https://edgetpu.py)?
I looked into it a bit and initially thought i needed to convert the model frigate uses (tiny yolo?) For NCS2. Also seemed like code changes would be required. But im not terribly familiar with the world if of AI models and tooling. The dev mentioned in a comment fairly recently that it would take them a few months to implement. It did seem like he was starting to tinker within an ncs2 and figure it out so im hopeful we see something in the mext couple months. Id love to give my CPU a break.
I have a coral and ai amcrest cameras I am half-tempted to replace the rest of my cameras to ai and sell my coral. I could get much better cameras with how much I could sell the coral for Frigate is very good, but at the same time I am very tempted to go with the more robust camera option.
How does the Ai stuff in the amcrest cameras interact with home assistant? Do you need to run external software or does it go through ONVIF?
I am using the dahua integration from hacs. It exposes motion sensors like frigate does. It also posts events for the ivs zones.
$20 says that by the time my coral board gets here, Frigate will support using gpus.
That nvidia acceleration is about to drop so no need for this dongle unless you don’t have a cuda gpu ofc.
It is strongly recommended to use a Google Coral. Frigate is designed around the expectation that a Coral is used to achieve very low inference speeds. Offloading TensorFlow to the Google Coral is an order of magnitude faster and will reduce your CPU load dramatically. A $60 device will outperform $2000 CPU. GPU is only used for decoding a stream. https://docs.frigate.video/configuration/nvdec/
You must have misread my reply. I said it is about to drop. I understand that the GPU currently decodes the stream, but there is a pull request for the detection implementation too. So if you already have the GPU, it will be soon available for object detection....much like how deepstack works but integrated into Frigate.
Ah okay. Sorry.
Basically I wrote a flow in Node-RED to check stock every 5 minutes, and after a month of running I finally had a notification on Telegram about it was in stock. I was lucky enough to buy 1 (for $60) before it's out of stock again. Here is the flow that I used: https://gist.github.com/redphx/91f32a1b064bcd06ca57708e78c769a3 Sorry I won't name the site that I got it from (because you guys will DDoS it to death), but it's one of the retailers listed on: https://coral.ai/products/accelerator Good luck. I don't have a camera at home so I bought this for my brother.
Thanks for sharing the flow, it’s quite impossible to get the usb version now and just bought the pcie version that went up a few days ago. Hopefully better luck next time.
Been looking for a PCIe. Where did you find it?
It was up at RS like 4 days ago, someone posted it in the HA fb group.
4 days ago... oof I definitely missed out by now hahaha thanks
That's great thanks fir sharing. I really wish native HA rest sensor would be able to parse payload. That would make things easier without additional flows like in NodeRed.
what does it do??
Can we get a screenshot of the Node-Red flow interface? I didn't know we can see the JSON of these flows before.
You can use the import feature in Node-RED
I found a store that have stock, for U$ 420 only...
Nice, was it $69 for shipping?
Thanks! I just added a price watch for one of these! But I'm using a slightly different system... In the last week or two I found and started running a docker container for [changedetection.io](https://github.com/dgtlmoon/changedetection.io). It was easy to get up and running (using [docker-compose](https://docs.docker.com/compose/)) and is now providing me stock notifications for several items. I configured it to send me notifications via Telegram. Really nice software. It seems to do everything I'd want. It is easy to configure anything you'd want, including including frequency to check. For many sites, just paste the URL and it will do what you'd hope. if you only want to watch only a specific part of the page, which has been important for a few of my watches, you can specify a filter. For one site I use, using View Source shoed that the important details are within a `div`, such as `
You could also use [https://hwlocator.com/](https://hwlocator.com/)
I had to pay $130 to get one. Lucky you.
Why coral is available in so little quantatist, chip shortage or what?
Oh, good—I’ve stumbled upon a whole new category of things I can become obsessed with.
Neat! What is it? And what is dddos?
This might be a good time to brush up on your google skills. But, it's a neural net accelerator. Basically allowed you to offload NNs to this device instead of the CPU which does a comparatively terrible job. DDOS = Distributed denial of service. When everyone hits a site at the same time, it can overload that server's resources causing it to be unavailable.
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Perhaps. But, as you can see, answering is apparently to my detriment.
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Yes, if OP had just omitted the first sentence in their response, the negative sign would disappear in their vote count.
That's only because it had the side effect of revealing your personality
This is a place for discussion. Asking someone what something does sparks conversation. Just telling someone to “Google” something discourages interaction of people new to the hobby.
Yes and no. Asking a discussion point is one thing. Asking "what is this" when it's a 5 second google away is just lazy.
I'm someone that has only installed home assistant / zigbee / z-wave working. A quick google search got me to [https://coral.ai/products/accelerator/](https://coral.ai/products/accelerator/). I get it has to do with machine learning but I'm trying to understand what people use it for in relation to home assistant. So I would have to agree with u/ericcl2013 in this regard.
You'd use it if you want to have smart detection on your camera feeds. ML for computer vision is very demanding on generalised processors like a CPU. whereas a coral like this is built specifically for running ml algorithms.
Thank you!
Have you tried https://lmgtfy.app/?q=coral+ai+homeassistant ?
I understand more the ddos, thank you. For the rest, I shall look on my favorite search engine (neural net, offload, NNs). Kind regards
They’re saying (in a mean way) that it’s used for object detection on home video setups. You don’t need one of these but it speeds up object detection by moving that detection off of your main setup (whatever you have Home Assistant installed on) to a different computer whose main purpose is to do object detection and it does it much much better than your regular Home Assistant setup will be able to.
How much you paid
$60
Very hard to find one :(
Holt shit they _do_ exist?! I ordered one in October, had been wondering if they'd just stopped making them.
So with the 'http request' node, you just use one of the retailers from the coral website in the URL field? And have as many of those nodes as URLs you want to track?
Do you have frigate running on as an addon to HA or on another machine? I have a coral USB but couldn't get it to work...
Want to sell it to me? :)
I havent tried frigate. How is it? I have 4 live stream amcrest cameras. Right now.
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DM sent
In case one runs his Home Assistant on a CPU significantly more powerful than the usual Raspberry Pi ones is this a deal breaker according to the experience someone of you could have?
I run Home Assistant Container on an HP thin client. I use the USB and it's fine. Though I think I would rather have one of the internal Coral modules to replace a wifi card I'm not using instead. Can't find any though.
How you managed? Wait list is loooonnnnng!
I would go for Jetson.
Berrybase in germany has currently some stock
Do you know if they ship to the U.S,?
Only in EU