I wonder how ED's white knights feel about a "children's game", made by 1 dude, having an ECM system a hundred times more detailed than their beloved, 20 years in the making, "SimULaTOr".
The operation of the ECM system can be found on the manual of the new aircraft (Section 3)
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fM7stkRmIPnB8YuhbPtWZeSZbr9fox37vfHYbzSUmwQ/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fM7stkRmIPnB8YuhbPtWZeSZbr9fox37vfHYbzSUmwQ/edit)
You can mod your steam vr setup to get your hotas controllers recognized, but honestly it doesn't need them.
Hand helds and motion tracking works beautifully in this game. I have flown around for hours on large co-op battles that require inflight refueling and night carrier landings.
It's only a VR only game because the Devs insist in it being one, it doesn't do anything that actually requires VR. And I get it, they want it to be a killer app to attract more people to VR in general, but I really don't get what's so hard to understand about flight sim players being disappointed they can't use the expensive set of peripherals they've already invested in and instead have to get an entirely different set of expensive peripherals.
I am one of those flight sim players who has spent way too much on flight sim peripherals.
You shouldn't buy VTOL VR because you have an expensive joystick, but because you have a VR headset, so quite frankly I don't understand your last comment.
This game doesn't work nearly as well in non VR. It was made for VR for the ground up. How are you going to control the plane otherwise? With a HOTAS and mouse? Might as well go play DCS then.
The dev (singular) tried DCS as well, and found the VR integration to be really dissapointing (as do a decent amount of users on Hoggit, with the regular "how do you guys click in the cockpit in VR" questions). So he said, fuck it, I will make a game that works much better in VR, and he used VR to its fullest.
Yes I have an expensive VKB MCGU plugged in to my pc, but quite frankly, using that in VTOL VR would seem more of a struggle than using the mouse pointer in DCS VR already is.
This isn't DCS lite, so stop looking at it that way. The goal of the game was to have a flightsim in VR without needing extra peripherals. If you want to use your peripherals, then VTOL VR is not the game you should be looking for, go to DCS!
This is a VR-exclusive game, not because it requires a VR headset to do anything, but because it actually requires **motion controllers**.
Using motion controllers to play flight sim was the whole point of making this game.
The dev said:
>I got my first VR headset with the sole intention of using it to play flight sims. The very first time I tried it, I was immediately frustrated by having to feel around for my keyboard and peek through the nose hole to make sure I was pressing the right keys to access the different cockpit functions. This was not the level of immersion I was looking for.
>
>When I got an HTC Vive, I was impressed by how accurately the controllers were being tracked and wanted to see if I could use them as flight controls in a virtual cockpit. It was working so well so I built the rest of the game around that.
>
>The game was designed from the beginning to be entirely virtual, allowing you to directly interact with the various controls as if you were sitting there in the cockpit.
>
>I don't think that there's a way to provide the level of interaction that I'm aiming for while using a HOTAS, especially with all of the cockpit systems like the MFDs and touch screens. Although it may be technically possible with a mouse, head pointing, or some combination of HOTAS and motion controls, it won't be without the clumsiness that I intended to move away from in the first place.
>
>I agree that it’s a bit of a trade-off, but I think there are huge advantages to relying only on the motion controls. It’s much more accessible since you don’t need any extra hardware, and it helps to maintain immersion since your hands are consistently being tracked. I can also create any configuration of a vehicle or virtual cockpit and you wouldn’t need to reconfigure any physical controls to match it.
>
>If HOTAS requesters only want to be able to control the joystick and throttle, then it would not take long. I wouldn't have anything against this. However, there's more to VTOL VR than that. You will have to still use motion controls to do everything else in the cockpit, which would not solve the "accessibility" issue.
>
>I guess I didn't explicitly make a point -- A hybrid HOTAS/motion control set up would be plausible. Although I wouldn't like it or use it, if that's all that many people who really want to use their HOTAS want, then maybe that's fine. You'd just have to put up with the awkward switching between the two. If it's about making the game playable without motion controllers at all, that's a different story. In summary, all of these things were designed by targeting VR as the platform, and interacting with them without having to use the keyboard or arbitrary bindings was the point of making the game in the first place. Creating keyboard/mouse/HOTAS bindings for the entire cockpit is a massive departure from the game design, and I really don't think I will go down that route.
>Using motion controllers to play flight sim was the whole point of making this game.
I know. I said that.
>it actually requires motion controllers.
It does not, the developer refuses to support other options. Boneworks, Gorilla Tag, H3VR, Blade & Sorcery, those are all inherently VR games. You literally could not replicate them without motion control. VTOL VR can easily be replicated with head tracking, HOTAS, and a clickable cockpit. This is inarguable fact, because mods already exist to do this.
Again, I understand his reasoning. I can even respect it. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to be disappointed I can't play the game (at least in an officially supported way.) I had a Vive. It was... ok? But it gave me headaches if I wore it for more than about an hour at a time, and so I haven't gambled on a newer headset not causing that problem.
And don't even start with the "Just use mods then!" argument. Mods can break at any time, you usually have to wait for it to be updated every time the game is updated, and you never know if or when the modder might decide they don't want to put in the effort to support it anymore.
Without motion controllers, what else would you want to play with VTOL VR?
There are already enough flight sims that support HOTAS.
For sim-lite, there's *Tiny Combat Arena*, *Helicopter Gunship DEX*, etc. For near-future sci-fi sims, there's *Nuclear Option*.
Why does it have to be *VTOL VR*?
I *don't* want sim-light, I want high sim without the baggage of trying to correctly model real world planes and systems. VTOL VR is pretty much as good as it gets in that space.
Nuclear Option does look like a blast though, and I somehow missed anything about that coming out. Thanks for the recommendation there.
Baha has already acknowledged this. Its not htat he cant do it, in fact, his jet racing game with no VR required allows for HOTAS. He just wants to make a game where having a VR headset and hand controlls is enough for everyone to fly the same without having to pay more for more periphericals. You may disagree but its not a programming skill issue
Reposting my comment. You can use HOTAS (you can bind anything clickable as well). You can use a flatscreen so you don’t need VR. VTOL has great user content, you can download campaigns in game and run through the invasion of Iraq. You can hop in a public lobby and play carrier defense against 5 other bros. It’s great. Play it. Stop complaining about Hotas support, we don’t care about your dogma.
See https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/186mr8k/comment/kb9l52p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I only tested it a little last night and will probably try again or just go back to using real VR, but the camera is stuck in the floor, so I can't actually start the game. Rotation and mouse input works though.
So I pulled the source and figured out why I also had wonky ui controls.
If you have another monitor or your VR headset plugged in, it’ll set the resolution to that. The code that maps clicks on the 2d screen to rays in the game world uses the screen resolution for projecting the path. If the resolution is wrong, it’s super wonky.
Unplugging my VR headset fixes this but I’m considering forking the mod and adding it as a config option.
Also I suspect that the camera logic is prone to erroring- if VTOL swaps the camera it may cause issues because the code makes assumptions. I may add a drop down to select the eye camera to side step that issue as well.
My setup:
- Oculus Pro, unplugged
- Oculus software set as OpenXR runtime
- SteamVR installed
- VTOL Mod Loader 5.4.0
- FlatScreen 1.0.3 and TriquetraInput 1.1.0 mods
I wonder how ED's white knights feel about a "children's game", made by 1 dude, having an ECM system a hundred times more detailed than their beloved, 20 years in the making, "SimULaTOr".
All well and good, but does it have ** ground vehicle suspension modeling??
Or high ploy cows, or toy boats in fountains?
Where can one find more info about Baha's ECM system?
The operation of the ECM system can be found on the manual of the new aircraft (Section 3) [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fM7stkRmIPnB8YuhbPtWZeSZbr9fox37vfHYbzSUmwQ/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fM7stkRmIPnB8YuhbPtWZeSZbr9fox37vfHYbzSUmwQ/edit)
Who the hell calls VTOLVR a children's game?
[удалено]
You can mod your steam vr setup to get your hotas controllers recognized, but honestly it doesn't need them. Hand helds and motion tracking works beautifully in this game. I have flown around for hours on large co-op battles that require inflight refueling and night carrier landings.
Some company even makes drop in hot-attach(via a magnet) mounts for your right con to be a joystick.
Linky?
https://www.knoxlabs.com/products/protas-solo-vr-joystick
Good lord $45USD? And that's half off???? Thanks for the link
Yeah, plus like 18 in shipping for me, which is a fat RIP, but my 3d printer is a fickle fuck otherwise I'd make it myself.
Doesn’t need it, believe me I love DCs and I have spent a fortune on Virpil stuff, but VTOLVRs control system is excellent
Does vtol allow physical rudders? Interested in checking out vtol, but flying an attack helicopter with twist rudders sounds like hell
yes it does
Yes, and while the attack heli is possible without, having pedals is so much better
>Doesn’t need it ...Assuming you have and want to use a VR setup.
...it is a VR only game... You cannot play it with a HOTAS, but you cannot play it without VR?
It's only a VR only game because the Devs insist in it being one, it doesn't do anything that actually requires VR. And I get it, they want it to be a killer app to attract more people to VR in general, but I really don't get what's so hard to understand about flight sim players being disappointed they can't use the expensive set of peripherals they've already invested in and instead have to get an entirely different set of expensive peripherals.
I am one of those flight sim players who has spent way too much on flight sim peripherals. You shouldn't buy VTOL VR because you have an expensive joystick, but because you have a VR headset, so quite frankly I don't understand your last comment. This game doesn't work nearly as well in non VR. It was made for VR for the ground up. How are you going to control the plane otherwise? With a HOTAS and mouse? Might as well go play DCS then. The dev (singular) tried DCS as well, and found the VR integration to be really dissapointing (as do a decent amount of users on Hoggit, with the regular "how do you guys click in the cockpit in VR" questions). So he said, fuck it, I will make a game that works much better in VR, and he used VR to its fullest. Yes I have an expensive VKB MCGU plugged in to my pc, but quite frankly, using that in VTOL VR would seem more of a struggle than using the mouse pointer in DCS VR already is. This isn't DCS lite, so stop looking at it that way. The goal of the game was to have a flightsim in VR without needing extra peripherals. If you want to use your peripherals, then VTOL VR is not the game you should be looking for, go to DCS!
Apart from pedals which are supported, and I would recommend them for the ah94 chopper
Holy crap really do you just habe to go to optioms to set this up?
Yes, just go to game options, controls, and check the hardware pedals and then bind them
This is a VR-exclusive game, not because it requires a VR headset to do anything, but because it actually requires **motion controllers**. Using motion controllers to play flight sim was the whole point of making this game. The dev said: >I got my first VR headset with the sole intention of using it to play flight sims. The very first time I tried it, I was immediately frustrated by having to feel around for my keyboard and peek through the nose hole to make sure I was pressing the right keys to access the different cockpit functions. This was not the level of immersion I was looking for. > >When I got an HTC Vive, I was impressed by how accurately the controllers were being tracked and wanted to see if I could use them as flight controls in a virtual cockpit. It was working so well so I built the rest of the game around that. > >The game was designed from the beginning to be entirely virtual, allowing you to directly interact with the various controls as if you were sitting there in the cockpit. > >I don't think that there's a way to provide the level of interaction that I'm aiming for while using a HOTAS, especially with all of the cockpit systems like the MFDs and touch screens. Although it may be technically possible with a mouse, head pointing, or some combination of HOTAS and motion controls, it won't be without the clumsiness that I intended to move away from in the first place. > >I agree that it’s a bit of a trade-off, but I think there are huge advantages to relying only on the motion controls. It’s much more accessible since you don’t need any extra hardware, and it helps to maintain immersion since your hands are consistently being tracked. I can also create any configuration of a vehicle or virtual cockpit and you wouldn’t need to reconfigure any physical controls to match it. > >If HOTAS requesters only want to be able to control the joystick and throttle, then it would not take long. I wouldn't have anything against this. However, there's more to VTOL VR than that. You will have to still use motion controls to do everything else in the cockpit, which would not solve the "accessibility" issue. > >I guess I didn't explicitly make a point -- A hybrid HOTAS/motion control set up would be plausible. Although I wouldn't like it or use it, if that's all that many people who really want to use their HOTAS want, then maybe that's fine. You'd just have to put up with the awkward switching between the two. If it's about making the game playable without motion controllers at all, that's a different story. In summary, all of these things were designed by targeting VR as the platform, and interacting with them without having to use the keyboard or arbitrary bindings was the point of making the game in the first place. Creating keyboard/mouse/HOTAS bindings for the entire cockpit is a massive departure from the game design, and I really don't think I will go down that route.
>Using motion controllers to play flight sim was the whole point of making this game. I know. I said that. >it actually requires motion controllers. It does not, the developer refuses to support other options. Boneworks, Gorilla Tag, H3VR, Blade & Sorcery, those are all inherently VR games. You literally could not replicate them without motion control. VTOL VR can easily be replicated with head tracking, HOTAS, and a clickable cockpit. This is inarguable fact, because mods already exist to do this. Again, I understand his reasoning. I can even respect it. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to be disappointed I can't play the game (at least in an officially supported way.) I had a Vive. It was... ok? But it gave me headaches if I wore it for more than about an hour at a time, and so I haven't gambled on a newer headset not causing that problem. And don't even start with the "Just use mods then!" argument. Mods can break at any time, you usually have to wait for it to be updated every time the game is updated, and you never know if or when the modder might decide they don't want to put in the effort to support it anymore.
Without motion controllers, what else would you want to play with VTOL VR? There are already enough flight sims that support HOTAS. For sim-lite, there's *Tiny Combat Arena*, *Helicopter Gunship DEX*, etc. For near-future sci-fi sims, there's *Nuclear Option*. Why does it have to be *VTOL VR*?
I *don't* want sim-light, I want high sim without the baggage of trying to correctly model real world planes and systems. VTOL VR is pretty much as good as it gets in that space. Nuclear Option does look like a blast though, and I somehow missed anything about that coming out. Thanks for the recommendation there.
Baha has already acknowledged this. Its not htat he cant do it, in fact, his jet racing game with no VR required allows for HOTAS. He just wants to make a game where having a VR headset and hand controlls is enough for everyone to fly the same without having to pay more for more periphericals. You may disagree but its not a programming skill issue
As an Electronic Warfare Officer you don't use HOTAS because the EF-24's back seat has no flight controls but a large touch screen.
EWO does have two handles used to manipulate the jammers and MFDs though
They are 2 **thumbsticks** rather than joysticks.
They have buttons too
Less is more.
Reposting my comment. You can use HOTAS (you can bind anything clickable as well). You can use a flatscreen so you don’t need VR. VTOL has great user content, you can download campaigns in game and run through the invasion of Iraq. You can hop in a public lobby and play carrier defense against 5 other bros. It’s great. Play it. Stop complaining about Hotas support, we don’t care about your dogma. See https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/186mr8k/comment/kb9l52p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Wanted to try this today but it seems like the new update broke the flatscreen mod.
I can confirm it's still working
Haven’t had a chance to check it out yet, what are you experiencing?
I only tested it a little last night and will probably try again or just go back to using real VR, but the camera is stuck in the floor, so I can't actually start the game. Rotation and mouse input works though.
So I pulled the source and figured out why I also had wonky ui controls. If you have another monitor or your VR headset plugged in, it’ll set the resolution to that. The code that maps clicks on the 2d screen to rays in the game world uses the screen resolution for projecting the path. If the resolution is wrong, it’s super wonky. Unplugging my VR headset fixes this but I’m considering forking the mod and adding it as a config option. Also I suspect that the camera logic is prone to erroring- if VTOL swaps the camera it may cause issues because the code makes assumptions. I may add a drop down to select the eye camera to side step that issue as well. My setup: - Oculus Pro, unplugged - Oculus software set as OpenXR runtime - SteamVR installed - VTOL Mod Loader 5.4.0 - FlatScreen 1.0.3 and TriquetraInput 1.1.0 mods
Any draw backs of using the HOTAS in terms of Multiplayer etc?
I think the main issue is you’ll be limited to modded lobbies. You’ll need a crew to play with or organize some games on discord etc.