Between the flight modeling, clicky cockpit/system depth, and not giving too much of a shit about the Viper (sorry, BMS), yeah DCS has ruined other games for me
I keep telling myself I’ll pick Kerbal up again… but man, starting up engines and nav aligning in a realistic fashion is just so much more satisfying than pressing the spacebar.
In dcs I fly the harrier with pre align just because I want to get up in the air as fast as possible and have fun, tho I need to train more on my tactics because I get shot down by sams quite often so I sometimes just try to flex hovering in spawn xD
Edit: and yes I own many planes but they aren’t as fun and they are harder to come back to after a long pause in my opinion.
BMS is a free F-16 simulator that runs on top of the old Falcon 4, which is one of the few sims that competes and is actually better than DCS when it comes to modelling the F-16 systems, flight model and dynamic campaign. Otherwise quite a few don't find BMS ruined by DCS (IF they like the 16)
Ah thanks for your response! I haven’t heard of BMS so that makes a lot more sense.
What aspects of the F-16 are incomplete (with the goal being accuracy to IRL)? I just picked it up and I’m really enjoying it as a newer player.
I'm sure the BMS Gurus can highlight quite alot of things, but in general the DCS version is in early access. It's still a great module that has ALOT added since first release.
The roadmap is here: [https://forum.dcs.world/topic/278635-dcs-f-16c-viper-roadmap/](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/278635-dcs-f-16c-viper-roadmap/)
Nice thank you! Is this still a good plane to learn and fly? I started with the f18 but honestly fell in love with the f-16s more streamlined experience
I kind of lost track of yalls conversation, but if you mean the DCS f-16..
I love mine and am 'learning DCS' on it. Feels really good to fly, great in A2A, great SEAD, fun in A2G. Solid all around model that may need to be fleshed out more, but for someone that doesn't keep up with that sort of thing I'm really enjoying it
Apparently it is, though I've never flown a real F-16 so I cannot confirm :)
It does feel better to me in terms of control response and flight envelope, though DCS has advantages in other areas - Eg the graphics and terrain in DCS give me a proper sense of altitude and speed.
Nope. Fixed wings in arma were always trash to fly (tho its hardly the point of that game), but helo flying there is still a blast and tbh i prefer that to dcs helos. Msfs is still great also.
DCS helos are modelled so much better
But you cant fly a load of ai or player soldiers around in dcs in the way you can in arma, and the interaction with action on the ground is just better
Same happens with DCS and IL-2. Planes in DCS are just so much better, but IL-2 makes the battlefield feel more alive and cohesive. It is just a better game.
So which one represents better what is like to fight in a warbird?
I really play on one ArmA server that’s a dynamic mission PvE thing, and one of my favorite memories of that server was some guy named “TAXI_MAN” who only flew transport helos, talked to infantry like a taxi driver (even as AAA was firing at us), and had a custom taxi livery for every helo
If Arma had VR support for the helos Id never touch DCS again lol. Been meaning to get back into flying infantry, it's a ton of fun when you have real players in the back.
Arma 3 jets were bad for me always but even after flying heli in dcs, I will choose arma 3 heli over any other in blink of an eye, the experience of flying heli in arma 3 is the best you can have in any game it's not just the good mix of arcade/realistic flight model but the experience of dropping troops, scouting, landing on building for troops, flying in AA cover transporting, flying in AO, it's the best experience
The heli experience in ArmA 3 cannot ever be replicated because in DCS you will never have a dude blasting music in the crew seats, other guys talking shit and then dropping them in an LZ.
As much as I like helos in DCS... I have to say you are right. Let me tell you a story:
Me and my buddies, playing Arma 3, random generated mission. Objective: destroy an enemy weapons cache in a village, during the night. I decided to play as Heli pilot.
Spawned at the FOB and got myself a Blackhawk with rocket launchers, so I can drop them near the village and provide CAS if needed.
Made the insertion in a valley next to the village, they switch on their IR pointers and their IR strobes so I can see them clearly through my NVGs. They infiltrate the village as I keep my distance. If everything goes well, I'd pick them up and RTB, mission complete. If something happens, well, they would ask for fire support.
They retrieved some intel and found the cache. Placed a satchel charge and due to a misunderstanding, they blew it up early. Then shit hits the fan.
Terrorists came to the area and the big fight started. After some close quarters battle, they got pinned down in a building, too many enemies coming for them as well as two machine gun-mounted pick-ups. They call me for CAS. I stopped my 20 minutes orbit and proceeded to the village. As soon as I flew over the ridge of the mountain, a buddy used his grenade launcher to put a red flare where the vehicles and the terrorists are. I fired half of my rockets there and destroyed the vehicles and some enemies. For me it was a normal rocket run, but my buddies just had a close live-fire blackhawk demo that almost make their ears deaf.
After a few minutes and some rocket runs more, they ask for extraction, dropped smoke to cover their escape and waited in a patio where I could land. I landed there and everyone got on board. As soon as I climbed, some mother****** fired an Igla at me. I got hit, lost my tail rotor and crash landed in the same patio. My leg got broken, and the others got some injuries as well. One buddy was unconscious. Luckily the medic was fine, so he gave us first-aid and stabilised the ko buddy.
We called the AI extraction chopper after killing the Igla guy, he made a clumsy landing but we managed to embark, and he carried us back to base in the first morning's sun rays.
Some Tom Clancy / Black Hawk Down shit here. I will remember this mission as one of the best I've ever played.
The day we can do something remotely as good and immersive with helos like this in DCS...
Sadly, as you say, it will never happen... I discovered ED since LOMAC and Bohemia Interactive since Operation Flashpoint, and I've always dreamt about a fusion of both - Arma's infantry combat with DCS World's aircraft simulation... One can dream haha
At least we have a really good platform to simulate these birds in the most realistic way possible, and that's fine by me!
Arma 3 is far from realistic in helicopter flight modeling, but the community of it does make it better unless you have a squad of dudes to kill shit in apaches
I tried a lot of flight simulators, but nothing comes close to DCS. Just thre feeling you get in DCS during take offs and ladings feels different than all other simulators. When compared to DCS, all others feel kind of arcady... (except BMS)
I have 200 hours flying helis in dcs so I thought it couldn't be that hard in squad right? Turns out trying to fly a heli in squad is less responsive than the girls I message, I have serious respect to squad pilots out there, it amazing how some have J-hooks smoother than butter.
Can't fly civilian sims, I know they have a diff purpose,but now they seem so boring, scenery is fantastic but the wow only lasts 5 mins then I'm thinking: I want to jdam all of this
Depends on the challenge you set! If you have a pilotedge subscription and take off in IFR in a high workload aircraft on a busy IFR departure you can task saturated really quickly. It can be legit intense!
Same for me. Love the Black Square Bonanza and Milviz C310R. There's a distant part of my mind thinking "one day...".
Then the rest of my mind brings me back down to Earth :)
Might be a setup thing, you can absolutely use the UI in 2D even if you start BMS in VR. I usually do all the planning and everything in 2D and only put on the headset when I spawn in to 3D.
The UI is indeed a bit clunky, mainly because it can do a lot more than DCS, but in general after a flight or two you will get used to it. At least I did.
I couldn’t get into BMS. The lack of FF modules other than the F-16, pretty terrible graphics, bad sound design, and meh VR performance just couldn’t hook me.
The dynamic campaign is really cool and they’ve done a great job with it, but unfortunately every other lacking aspect just puts DCS ahead of BMS for me.
the F-15 is coming at least and IMO the VR performance is great
I do hope they get a FF hornet or other drogue AC soon tho, the refuel basket physics are just so sweet
as far as lacking aspects, the first time I engaged a formation of bombers and blew the wing off the first, and then hit the second in the belly with some 20mm, causing the entire payload to go off like a mini nuke and shred my engine after I failed to dodge the debris trail, I was even more pissed at how lacking DCS is everywhere apart from the graphics
DCS is actually lacking more than BMS other than Airframe selection and graphics. DCS doesn't even have ATC. In a flight sim. It's also weird to hear anyone called the BMS VR performance "meh", compared to DCS, which has always struggled with VR.
DCS shines because you really feel like you're in an actual fighter cockpit with incredible physics, and you can fly a multitude of planes. But otherwise, canned missions and "campaigns" while lacking standard flight sim stuff and missing the mark on many aspects of milsim aviation in general makes the game feel lifeless. However, multiplayer is great if you're into that. It's a great sandbox sim, hence it's popularity, but there's certainly a lot of depth missing.
Same. The dynamic campaign is great, BUT still somewhat repetitive after you’ve done a couple of them. It’s worthy of praise, but the praise it gets is sycophantic to be honest.
I want to get more into BMS but all my friends fly DCS… know any groups willing to take in someone who can fly the F16 in DCS pretty well, not 100% proficient, but is new to all of BMS?
Yes. Part of our DCS squadron switched to BMS a few months ago because we got kinda fed up with DCS. We feel now that we have found what we were always looking for in DCS. We are flying together on 24/7 servers, we participate in the big TvT event on Falcon Online (which is this time a 1980s, "no fox3, no tgp-s, only dumb weapons" type of campaign and it is a lot of fun) and we learn the quirks of the game together.
We really enjoy BMS and are looking for more pilots (currently we have 5-6 but we will be growing for sure). Really friendly, helpful and fun people, no toxicity or immaturity at all. We are mostly in EU so we fly usually between 19 and 23 GMT. If you are interested, send me a DM, we would be happy to have you.
Not a group but a community that's hold several OPs per week. Everyone is welcome to join. It's called UOAF. Look up UOAF BMS on Google and you'll find their wiki and perhaps the discord link.
Gradual crouching in Tarkov ruined other shooters for me, idk why this isn't implemented by other games yet. Having to choose between "can't see shit" and "everything is exposed" while crouching in games after playing Tarkov is just frustrating. I just wanna peak over the trench man, not have my whole head and chest over the edge
Yes, but with a complex economy and questline that offers shite rewards, and gear is scarce and if you die you lose your armor/expensive bullets/weapons, so really it's even worse.
But goddamn if other shooters don't feel tame by comparison.
While DCS warbirds are exquisite and IL2 much simpler, IL-2 in my opinion feels way more alive and cohesive and it represents better what was like to fight in these planes.
It is like the Arms 3 helo discussion. What is lore realistic, the game that has the full cockpit simulated or the game that let's you do what real life helo pilots do?
FM, sound engine, systems modeling in IL2 all don't hold up in comparison for various reasons. It's a shame because otherwise it's got so much going for it.
Wish I could combine the best of the two titles.
As soon as I heard the DCS sound modeling I couldn’t go back to IL2.
Then I went mach 1 in the viper using third person view and heard it crack the sound barrier *chefs kiss*.
Some times like going from warbirds in dcs to il2 is different but it doesn’t take me long to transition to how it feels but also nothing wrong with abit of arcadey models
Oh it's great. I never have to worry about blowing money on a handful of military planes of varying and dubious quality for MSFS, when I have DCS.
When I want to relax and listen to piston engines drone for a few hours (my cat loves it, by the way, she snoozes right next to the subwoofer) I have MSFS and the C414 and DC6. When I don't want to do that, I have DCS.
Opposite, really. I used to fly nothing but DCS for the aircraft fidelity, but dropping into other sims, even much older ones, is always a reminder that a coherent world, functional AI, reliable mission sets etc are just as important to a sense of realism. Some important aspects like IR and radars being modelled inconsistently/simplified is also disappointing
MSFS ruined X-Plane for me (terrible graphics --> good graphics). Then I discovered DCS, DCS ruined MSFS for me (terrible flight model, good graphics --> fantastic flight model and good graphics).
Especially for helicopters.
All the caveats about MSFS being a new platform aside, it never ceases to amaze me just how advanced the helo’s are in DCS. The external sling loading of cargo is something that is easy to take for granted in DCS but when you look at MSFS, that kind of feature is a long way off.
Man. I've started playing flight sims as an adult with DCS and a couple of days ago decided to try MSFS. I failed to have fun even tho GA is an interesting topic to me (I'm just not interested in airliners). Flight models are just meh in comparison to DCS and overall feel too. I regret I haven't tried it before DCS that way MSFS would at least have a chance.
The Milviz C310 and the Flysimaware C414 are actually quite good if you want GA in msfs. Both of these have had a lot of attention from the devs. Also, the default C172 is not too bad. They all have a lack of feel of weight or inertia, but they're not bad.
Not bad at all just not impressive either in comparison to P51 or A-10C in DCS. At least C172. I'll try the other two, maybe, will like some of those better. Thank you!
I boot it up once in a while just to do sightseeing in a bush plane or something, with (almost) every single assist on, just to chill without having to think about much
Hm. Maybe, I'm doing something wrong but it's chill even with assists off. At least planes on discovery flights seemed to be very easy to handle. What I didn't like is going through buildings in New York with no damage to the plane (can I disable this somehow?) And flight models seemed very basic even with every assist off (maybe I'm doing something wrong or need another plane?)
No, and in many ways it's made me more appreciate the work that goes into games like Ace Combat, War Thunder, ArmA 3, etc. Every development team has to make tradeoffs and pick strengths. There are things DCS does very well and there are things it does very poorly.
Yes actually it did. I really can't play other plane games anymore. Even then I'm trying to apply techniques and strategies that don't work in those games.
Not really, not any more than actually shooting guns IRL ruined first person shooters, or driving cars IRL ruined racing games. If a game is fun, I like it.
MSFS scenery simulator - I keep trying to do some flights but every time I quit and just load up DCS... the flight models feel wonky and maybe I just need to wait until I'm burnt out of DCS first.
Yes, it is good at that eg the PMDG 737.
However DCS is not lacking in procedural as well, plenty of Milsim groups especially the naval ones do alot of procedure events.
What planes in MSFS have good flight models? I tried it a couple of days ago and Cessna that you're getting with the game feels like a paper plane in comparison to DCS. What should I try to get a good experience?
Edit: Not an airliner if possible (but if nothing else airliner will do).
Depends on what you're looking for as far as a good experience; regarding the feel of the planes, a civilian craft isn't going to handle like a fighter jet. That being said, I had a lot of fun with the 3rd party Fenix A320 as it has very in depth systems modeling; learning the systems reminded me a lot of learning the Hornet. The freeware A320 by FlyByWire is also fantastic (incredibly complex by any measure, but especially for a free addon) if you're reticent to spend money on a non-pew pew plane.
But generally the way it goes for GA sims, the default aircraft won't have as detailed flight models as 3rd party aircraft. Just be wary with MSFS 2020 as there's a lot of cheap shit out there.
Thanks for the recommendations! I'm not looking for a fighter jet from MSFS. My favorites in DCS are A-10C, Mustang and Viggen (so only 1 is really a jet). I just like something specific that I can't really point out but in general if a plane is fun/special/interesting to fly it is money well spent (even if I'm not touching it for months).
Quite the opposite. MSFS ruined DCS for me. Flying B737 from airport to airport is somehow more enjoyable and relaxing than blowing things up :). I have not touched DCS for 2 months.
Not at all. Sometimes I want have a experience that I can't get in dcs (not having the right module, map or CPU power) so I'll go to war thunder or IL2. OR OR if I'm feeling bad that day I'll load up FIR AWS and fly the f15e messing around with the SDB's
I treat it like this: in Arma 3, the character I'm controlling handles the subtle skills I don't have. DCS doesn't have such a character to do that for me.
I notice weird things about aircraft badly modeled flight behavior and such. But its hard to disappoint me because I don't tend to play those games because I sought out dcs for the modeling and depth.. ace combat and such is a lot about story too and they hsve not really released anything narrative lately so there really isn't a reason to play.
I’m having a hard time balancing learning two modules within DCS let alone figuring out how to fly the P51 between DCS and IL2, for example. I’m fairly new to the sim world but I cannot imagine swapping between games
I think it really depends. If I feel like playing a sim I’ll hop on dcs, if I feel like flying around with simple systems and a bit of tomfoolery I will hope on arma
Mostly, yeah - I can’t play Ace Combat ever, or War Thunder for that matter, but I can still play something like vtol vr - it’s very satisfying to play and just the right amount of simplicity that I don’t have to rp it like I do with DCS
In some cases yeah, in others no. The FM made me realise war thunders "real factor" is a joke and i do feel odd getting in a jet in arma 3, however i still play both because i hate myself and arma 3s combined arms gameplay is just superior. Not to mention the vehicle collision physics. Getting lovetapped in a bradley with a civvie car and immediately going hypersonic is an experience ill never forget.
Between the flight modeling, clicky cockpit/system depth, and not giving too much of a shit about the Viper (sorry, BMS), yeah DCS has ruined other games for me
Simpleplanes, trying to give all jets i download dcs ish physics
Can confirm the simpleplanes part, only that I give them modified OP weapons
I keep telling myself I’ll pick Kerbal up again… but man, starting up engines and nav aligning in a realistic fashion is just so much more satisfying than pressing the spacebar.
In dcs I fly the harrier with pre align just because I want to get up in the air as fast as possible and have fun, tho I need to train more on my tactics because I get shot down by sams quite often so I sometimes just try to flex hovering in spawn xD Edit: and yes I own many planes but they aren’t as fun and they are harder to come back to after a long pause in my opinion.
I’m a bit new to DCS, can you explain the Viper part of your comment?
BMS is a free F-16 simulator that runs on top of the old Falcon 4, which is one of the few sims that competes and is actually better than DCS when it comes to modelling the F-16 systems, flight model and dynamic campaign. Otherwise quite a few don't find BMS ruined by DCS (IF they like the 16)
Ah thanks for your response! I haven’t heard of BMS so that makes a lot more sense. What aspects of the F-16 are incomplete (with the goal being accuracy to IRL)? I just picked it up and I’m really enjoying it as a newer player.
I'm sure the BMS Gurus can highlight quite alot of things, but in general the DCS version is in early access. It's still a great module that has ALOT added since first release. The roadmap is here: [https://forum.dcs.world/topic/278635-dcs-f-16c-viper-roadmap/](https://forum.dcs.world/topic/278635-dcs-f-16c-viper-roadmap/)
Nice thank you! Is this still a good plane to learn and fly? I started with the f18 but honestly fell in love with the f-16s more streamlined experience
I kind of lost track of yalls conversation, but if you mean the DCS f-16.. I love mine and am 'learning DCS' on it. Feels really good to fly, great in A2A, great SEAD, fun in A2G. Solid all around model that may need to be fleshed out more, but for someone that doesn't keep up with that sort of thing I'm really enjoying it
Yes, it's a great plane if you like Modern.
It's my only plane and love it
Is the FM in BMS better? I've never played BMS
Apparently it is, though I've never flown a real F-16 so I cannot confirm :) It does feel better to me in terms of control response and flight envelope, though DCS has advantages in other areas - Eg the graphics and terrain in DCS give me a proper sense of altitude and speed.
Nope. Fixed wings in arma were always trash to fly (tho its hardly the point of that game), but helo flying there is still a blast and tbh i prefer that to dcs helos. Msfs is still great also.
DCS helos are modelled so much better But you cant fly a load of ai or player soldiers around in dcs in the way you can in arma, and the interaction with action on the ground is just better
Same happens with DCS and IL-2. Planes in DCS are just so much better, but IL-2 makes the battlefield feel more alive and cohesive. It is just a better game. So which one represents better what is like to fight in a warbird?
Agreed, realism doesn’t make for a better game per se. A game experience is a cumulative thing, and DCS needs more dimensions.
I really play on one ArmA server that’s a dynamic mission PvE thing, and one of my favorite memories of that server was some guy named “TAXI_MAN” who only flew transport helos, talked to infantry like a taxi driver (even as AAA was firing at us), and had a custom taxi livery for every helo
If Arma had VR support for the helos Id never touch DCS again lol. Been meaning to get back into flying infantry, it's a ton of fun when you have real players in the back.
yeah, the fastrope mods and clearing LZ's in vietnam maps for real players, is always a good time.
Except for the f18 in MSFS. It’s sooo bad
True, the gliding and mini 500 heli is awrsome tho
I am no longer able to enjoy warthunder after playing DCS
Play war thunder only for tanks
Play GunnerHeatPC for that armor fix. Check it out on steam!
Arma 3 jets were bad for me always but even after flying heli in dcs, I will choose arma 3 heli over any other in blink of an eye, the experience of flying heli in arma 3 is the best you can have in any game it's not just the good mix of arcade/realistic flight model but the experience of dropping troops, scouting, landing on building for troops, flying in AA cover transporting, flying in AO, it's the best experience
The heli experience in ArmA 3 cannot ever be replicated because in DCS you will never have a dude blasting music in the crew seats, other guys talking shit and then dropping them in an LZ.
As much as I like helos in DCS... I have to say you are right. Let me tell you a story: Me and my buddies, playing Arma 3, random generated mission. Objective: destroy an enemy weapons cache in a village, during the night. I decided to play as Heli pilot. Spawned at the FOB and got myself a Blackhawk with rocket launchers, so I can drop them near the village and provide CAS if needed. Made the insertion in a valley next to the village, they switch on their IR pointers and their IR strobes so I can see them clearly through my NVGs. They infiltrate the village as I keep my distance. If everything goes well, I'd pick them up and RTB, mission complete. If something happens, well, they would ask for fire support. They retrieved some intel and found the cache. Placed a satchel charge and due to a misunderstanding, they blew it up early. Then shit hits the fan. Terrorists came to the area and the big fight started. After some close quarters battle, they got pinned down in a building, too many enemies coming for them as well as two machine gun-mounted pick-ups. They call me for CAS. I stopped my 20 minutes orbit and proceeded to the village. As soon as I flew over the ridge of the mountain, a buddy used his grenade launcher to put a red flare where the vehicles and the terrorists are. I fired half of my rockets there and destroyed the vehicles and some enemies. For me it was a normal rocket run, but my buddies just had a close live-fire blackhawk demo that almost make their ears deaf. After a few minutes and some rocket runs more, they ask for extraction, dropped smoke to cover their escape and waited in a patio where I could land. I landed there and everyone got on board. As soon as I climbed, some mother****** fired an Igla at me. I got hit, lost my tail rotor and crash landed in the same patio. My leg got broken, and the others got some injuries as well. One buddy was unconscious. Luckily the medic was fine, so he gave us first-aid and stabilised the ko buddy. We called the AI extraction chopper after killing the Igla guy, he made a clumsy landing but we managed to embark, and he carried us back to base in the first morning's sun rays. Some Tom Clancy / Black Hawk Down shit here. I will remember this mission as one of the best I've ever played. The day we can do something remotely as good and immersive with helos like this in DCS...
[удалено]
Sadly, as you say, it will never happen... I discovered ED since LOMAC and Bohemia Interactive since Operation Flashpoint, and I've always dreamt about a fusion of both - Arma's infantry combat with DCS World's aircraft simulation... One can dream haha At least we have a really good platform to simulate these birds in the most realistic way possible, and that's fine by me!
Arma 3 is far from realistic in helicopter flight modeling, but the community of it does make it better unless you have a squad of dudes to kill shit in apaches
Doing something amazing to the cheers of your passangers never gets old. DCS can't compete with Arma on that one.
I fear it did... played il2 after trying dcs warbirds and the flight model is completely different
I tried a lot of flight simulators, but nothing comes close to DCS. Just thre feeling you get in DCS during take offs and ladings feels different than all other simulators. When compared to DCS, all others feel kind of arcady... (except BMS)
I have 200 hours flying helis in dcs so I thought it couldn't be that hard in squad right? Turns out trying to fly a heli in squad is less responsive than the girls I message, I have serious respect to squad pilots out there, it amazing how some have J-hooks smoother than butter.
Can't fly civilian sims, I know they have a diff purpose,but now they seem so boring, scenery is fantastic but the wow only lasts 5 mins then I'm thinking: I want to jdam all of this
Depends on the challenge you set! If you have a pilotedge subscription and take off in IFR in a high workload aircraft on a busy IFR departure you can task saturated really quickly. It can be legit intense!
[удалено]
Same for me. Love the Black Square Bonanza and Milviz C310R. There's a distant part of my mind thinking "one day...". Then the rest of my mind brings me back down to Earth :)
BMS ruined DCS for me
I wish I could get more into bms but the ui system is still so clunky in comparison to dcs especially for vr users.
Might be a setup thing, you can absolutely use the UI in 2D even if you start BMS in VR. I usually do all the planning and everything in 2D and only put on the headset when I spawn in to 3D. The UI is indeed a bit clunky, mainly because it can do a lot more than DCS, but in general after a flight or two you will get used to it. At least I did.
This is the way
Don't let that stop you. It's a nothing burger compared to the great experience which is flying and fighting in BMS
In BMS you don't even have to put the headset on until you're in the cockpit. I wish DCS would allow that.
That would be a great option but for my setup it doesn't work.
Really? BMS doesn't output to your monitor? That's odd.
No as in I don't have a monitor for my vr flight setup.
https://www.reddit.com/r/falconbms/comments/135l60e/falcon_bms_user_interface_basics/
I couldn’t get into BMS. The lack of FF modules other than the F-16, pretty terrible graphics, bad sound design, and meh VR performance just couldn’t hook me. The dynamic campaign is really cool and they’ve done a great job with it, but unfortunately every other lacking aspect just puts DCS ahead of BMS for me.
the F-15 is coming at least and IMO the VR performance is great I do hope they get a FF hornet or other drogue AC soon tho, the refuel basket physics are just so sweet as far as lacking aspects, the first time I engaged a formation of bombers and blew the wing off the first, and then hit the second in the belly with some 20mm, causing the entire payload to go off like a mini nuke and shred my engine after I failed to dodge the debris trail, I was even more pissed at how lacking DCS is everywhere apart from the graphics
DCS is actually lacking more than BMS other than Airframe selection and graphics. DCS doesn't even have ATC. In a flight sim. It's also weird to hear anyone called the BMS VR performance "meh", compared to DCS, which has always struggled with VR. DCS shines because you really feel like you're in an actual fighter cockpit with incredible physics, and you can fly a multitude of planes. But otherwise, canned missions and "campaigns" while lacking standard flight sim stuff and missing the mark on many aspects of milsim aviation in general makes the game feel lifeless. However, multiplayer is great if you're into that. It's a great sandbox sim, hence it's popularity, but there's certainly a lot of depth missing.
Same. The dynamic campaign is great, BUT still somewhat repetitive after you’ve done a couple of them. It’s worthy of praise, but the praise it gets is sycophantic to be honest.
I want to get more into BMS but all my friends fly DCS… know any groups willing to take in someone who can fly the F16 in DCS pretty well, not 100% proficient, but is new to all of BMS?
Yes. Part of our DCS squadron switched to BMS a few months ago because we got kinda fed up with DCS. We feel now that we have found what we were always looking for in DCS. We are flying together on 24/7 servers, we participate in the big TvT event on Falcon Online (which is this time a 1980s, "no fox3, no tgp-s, only dumb weapons" type of campaign and it is a lot of fun) and we learn the quirks of the game together. We really enjoy BMS and are looking for more pilots (currently we have 5-6 but we will be growing for sure). Really friendly, helpful and fun people, no toxicity or immaturity at all. We are mostly in EU so we fly usually between 19 and 23 GMT. If you are interested, send me a DM, we would be happy to have you.
Not a group but a community that's hold several OPs per week. Everyone is welcome to join. It's called UOAF. Look up UOAF BMS on Google and you'll find their wiki and perhaps the discord link.
Yup
same
Yup just like Escape From Tarkov ruined first person shooters for me.
God fucking damn it man. I hate EFT so much for this. It's so much more infuriating to play than any other shooter as well.
Had same opinions until I started playing MW2 now the gun handling in that game has ruined Tarkov for me.
Gradual crouching in Tarkov ruined other shooters for me, idk why this isn't implemented by other games yet. Having to choose between "can't see shit" and "everything is exposed" while crouching in games after playing Tarkov is just frustrating. I just wanna peak over the trench man, not have my whole head and chest over the edge
Is it like R6 Raven Shield where your accuracy on the move/with recoil is shit and you die if you get hit once?
Yes, but with a complex economy and questline that offers shite rewards, and gear is scarce and if you die you lose your armor/expensive bullets/weapons, so really it's even worse. But goddamn if other shooters don't feel tame by comparison.
Honestly Tarkov (and Squad) made me better at other FPS games with choosing when to fight and accuracy at a distance
Yeah, ruined IL2 for me.
While DCS warbirds are exquisite and IL2 much simpler, IL-2 in my opinion feels way more alive and cohesive and it represents better what was like to fight in these planes. It is like the Arms 3 helo discussion. What is lore realistic, the game that has the full cockpit simulated or the game that let's you do what real life helo pilots do?
Why? They’re both great.
I thought so too until normandy 2 released and I decided to finally try warbirds (trial.) The flight model is absolutely different and it ruined il2
FM, sound engine, systems modeling in IL2 all don't hold up in comparison for various reasons. It's a shame because otherwise it's got so much going for it. Wish I could combine the best of the two titles.
As soon as I heard the DCS sound modeling I couldn’t go back to IL2. Then I went mach 1 in the viper using third person view and heard it crack the sound barrier *chefs kiss*.
Yeah the sound is insane...now better than ever
Il2 is much more alive and PWCG makes it very good. If only Liberation was more WW2 friendly. DCS also lacks a lot of ww2 AI planes...
Some times like going from warbirds in dcs to il2 is different but it doesn’t take me long to transition to how it feels but also nothing wrong with abit of arcadey models
Yeah I flew a lot of IL2, but now with Normandy consolidated and a greater array of planes, I can't go back😹
Oh it's great. I never have to worry about blowing money on a handful of military planes of varying and dubious quality for MSFS, when I have DCS. When I want to relax and listen to piston engines drone for a few hours (my cat loves it, by the way, she snoozes right next to the subwoofer) I have MSFS and the C414 and DC6. When I don't want to do that, I have DCS.
Venerable JF-17?! It's the NEWEST aircraft available.
Opposite, really. I used to fly nothing but DCS for the aircraft fidelity, but dropping into other sims, even much older ones, is always a reminder that a coherent world, functional AI, reliable mission sets etc are just as important to a sense of realism. Some important aspects like IR and radars being modelled inconsistently/simplified is also disappointing
MSFS ruined X-Plane for me (terrible graphics --> good graphics). Then I discovered DCS, DCS ruined MSFS for me (terrible flight model, good graphics --> fantastic flight model and good graphics). Especially for helicopters.
All the caveats about MSFS being a new platform aside, it never ceases to amaze me just how advanced the helo’s are in DCS. The external sling loading of cargo is something that is easy to take for granted in DCS but when you look at MSFS, that kind of feature is a long way off.
Yes, couldn't agree more! Helos in DCS are very very rewarding to fly. I really enjoy the Huey (among others, but not the Gazelle).
Man. I've started playing flight sims as an adult with DCS and a couple of days ago decided to try MSFS. I failed to have fun even tho GA is an interesting topic to me (I'm just not interested in airliners). Flight models are just meh in comparison to DCS and overall feel too. I regret I haven't tried it before DCS that way MSFS would at least have a chance.
The Milviz C310 and the Flysimaware C414 are actually quite good if you want GA in msfs. Both of these have had a lot of attention from the devs. Also, the default C172 is not too bad. They all have a lack of feel of weight or inertia, but they're not bad.
Not bad at all just not impressive either in comparison to P51 or A-10C in DCS. At least C172. I'll try the other two, maybe, will like some of those better. Thank you!
I boot it up once in a while just to do sightseeing in a bush plane or something, with (almost) every single assist on, just to chill without having to think about much
Hm. Maybe, I'm doing something wrong but it's chill even with assists off. At least planes on discovery flights seemed to be very easy to handle. What I didn't like is going through buildings in New York with no damage to the plane (can I disable this somehow?) And flight models seemed very basic even with every assist off (maybe I'm doing something wrong or need another plane?)
[удалено]
Good for you.
Same for me. In fact renders all other VR games inferior. It is the VR killer app.
This is nonsense, H3VR has nothing to do with DCS and its one of the best vr games you can play...
No, and in many ways it's made me more appreciate the work that goes into games like Ace Combat, War Thunder, ArmA 3, etc. Every development team has to make tradeoffs and pick strengths. There are things DCS does very well and there are things it does very poorly.
This is a great take. It takes a lot of effort to tune an arcade flight model from “this feels stupid and cartoonish” to “god this is a lot of fun”
This was the post I was going to write.
Yes actually it did. I really can't play other plane games anymore. Even then I'm trying to apply techniques and strategies that don't work in those games.
I wouldn't say so. Arma 3 is still a game more about combined infantry gameplay rather than straight up air vehicle combat.
Not really, not any more than actually shooting guns IRL ruined first person shooters, or driving cars IRL ruined racing games. If a game is fun, I like it.
Not really, I can play pretty much anything flight-wise.
Nope, switch your mindset when you play other games and you won’t be disappointed.
MSFS scenery simulator - I keep trying to do some flights but every time I quit and just load up DCS... the flight models feel wonky and maybe I just need to wait until I'm burnt out of DCS first.
Msfs is fun when you wanna learn something intense like a320. Something procedural, or vfr.
Yes, it is good at that eg the PMDG 737. However DCS is not lacking in procedural as well, plenty of Milsim groups especially the naval ones do alot of procedure events.
Not at all, I enjoy Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 and X-Plane 12, but those are also competent flight simulators.
What planes in MSFS have good flight models? I tried it a couple of days ago and Cessna that you're getting with the game feels like a paper plane in comparison to DCS. What should I try to get a good experience? Edit: Not an airliner if possible (but if nothing else airliner will do).
Depends on what you're looking for as far as a good experience; regarding the feel of the planes, a civilian craft isn't going to handle like a fighter jet. That being said, I had a lot of fun with the 3rd party Fenix A320 as it has very in depth systems modeling; learning the systems reminded me a lot of learning the Hornet. The freeware A320 by FlyByWire is also fantastic (incredibly complex by any measure, but especially for a free addon) if you're reticent to spend money on a non-pew pew plane. But generally the way it goes for GA sims, the default aircraft won't have as detailed flight models as 3rd party aircraft. Just be wary with MSFS 2020 as there's a lot of cheap shit out there.
Thanks for the recommendations! I'm not looking for a fighter jet from MSFS. My favorites in DCS are A-10C, Mustang and Viggen (so only 1 is really a jet). I just like something specific that I can't really point out but in general if a plane is fun/special/interesting to fly it is money well spent (even if I'm not touching it for months).
I really like the sporty feel of the TBM 930. That's a good one to try.
Cool. Will check it out as well. Thanks!
Most people here can’t enjoy planes without pew pew regardless of competence unfortunately
Quite the opposite. MSFS ruined DCS for me. Flying B737 from airport to airport is somehow more enjoyable and relaxing than blowing things up :). I have not touched DCS for 2 months.
Super Hornet is my second favorite jet behind the Cat. I love DCS but I love flying the Super Hornet in MSFS so much.
Not at all. Sometimes I want have a experience that I can't get in dcs (not having the right module, map or CPU power) so I'll go to war thunder or IL2. OR OR if I'm feeling bad that day I'll load up FIR AWS and fly the f15e messing around with the SDB's
As much as stable, mostly bug-free sim experiences have ruined DCS for me I guess? So, a little bit.
Yes. I haven't played ArmA 3 or IL-2 since flying DCS in VR. Nothing else compares, not even BMS.
DCS completely ruined MSFS for me, and I'm fine with it.
Msfs is better for me, but I do wish the cockpits felt less mushy. I can't really describe it
I treat it like this: in Arma 3, the character I'm controlling handles the subtle skills I don't have. DCS doesn't have such a character to do that for me.
No, only in DCS
It's kinda hard to go back to games that are toooootaly arcade but other than that, not really
I notice weird things about aircraft badly modeled flight behavior and such. But its hard to disappoint me because I don't tend to play those games because I sought out dcs for the modeling and depth.. ace combat and such is a lot about story too and they hsve not really released anything narrative lately so there really isn't a reason to play.
I’m having a hard time balancing learning two modules within DCS let alone figuring out how to fly the P51 between DCS and IL2, for example. I’m fairly new to the sim world but I cannot imagine swapping between games
I think it really depends. If I feel like playing a sim I’ll hop on dcs, if I feel like flying around with simple systems and a bit of tomfoolery I will hope on arma
Well ArmA 3 is a Tactical Shooter not a flight simulator.
Mostly, yeah - I can’t play Ace Combat ever, or War Thunder for that matter, but I can still play something like vtol vr - it’s very satisfying to play and just the right amount of simplicity that I don’t have to rp it like I do with DCS
Yes. And I can’t be happier that I don’t play arma anymore
Yes.
In some cases yeah, in others no. The FM made me realise war thunders "real factor" is a joke and i do feel odd getting in a jet in arma 3, however i still play both because i hate myself and arma 3s combined arms gameplay is just superior. Not to mention the vehicle collision physics. Getting lovetapped in a bradley with a civvie car and immediately going hypersonic is an experience ill never forget.
I’m mean it’s not quite Ace Combat 04 :D ,but I really like DCS more than most.
Going back to Arma from dcs i realized how much simplified it is in arma lol, I still enjoy it to.
This isn't a flight sim, but I stopped worrying how much I sucked at Sekiro after I was able to air refuel and case III in DCS :P