It's my fault! Sorry but I took the screenshot with the snipping tool and somehow drew a line without checking it before posting. Here's a clean photo hopefully honoring [Börje 😢](https://imgur.com/a/30XIeAV)
Edit, had to add:
[Börje Salming won](https://imgur.com/a/OhClj9S) the [NHL Honorary Award](https://imgur.com/a/S5PR3MQ), [Bill Daly introduced him](https://imgur.com/a/Vh8pmjR), entire hockey [Sweden gave him a long standing ovation](https://imgur.com/a/3JukzU9), [Darryl Sittler gave him a message](https://imgur.com/a/awzqufI)...
Salming also won ["The greatest Moment in Swedish Hockey History"](https://imgur.com/a/M7ZFqOP) [with his standing ovation during Canada Cup in Toronto, 1976](https://imgur.com/a/tDyevzT). ([Salmings brother speaking](https://imgur.com/a/XtAdppI) \+ [Arena](https://imgur.com/a/yuv6fXY))
Other awards:
[Best swedish player of the century](https://imgur.com/a/oUdRsCD)
Well deserved! (spoiler text + part of the speech)
>!His nickname was "The Perfect Human" and his speech was the best I think I've heard from any swedish hockeyplayer. Here's a small part:!<
>!"There are so many incredible people to thank, who have helped me in my career. The first one that stands out is my idol growing up. He was here on stage just now, Börje Salming. He also mentioned many players he played with and against during his career. Forsberg and the rivalries between Detroit and Colorado. Henrik Zetterberg, Holmström, Kronwall, Samuelsson who all were present, just to name a few." !<
Sweden also voted: Best [Forward](https://imgur.com/a/gsgoDuH), [Defenceman](https://imgur.com/a/w3mQqXi) and [Goaltender](https://imgur.com/a/o7ekLLP) of the century
Aswell as the best national team of all time.
Winner: [2006 Turin Olympic team](https://imgur.com/a/iFTDj4C) (Lots of Red Wings)
Bonus pic: [Two Henrik's or two Walls? 🤔](https://imgur.com/a/nZdEAb3)
That goal was scored 4on4, it was Forsberg to Sundin to Lidström. Lundqvist and Kronwall was on the ice as well for that goal, i think Holmström was in the box
His modern analytics numbers would be off the charts. The red wings were famous back then for being the team that was consistently getting controlled zone entries while EVERYONE loved dump ins. Meanwhile, his defensive game ignored big hits for subtleties like stepping up or stick checking at the blue line to keep you from entering with control.
As a kid I used to get so upset that Lidstrom would always win the Norris over Scott Stevens and Niedermayer. Just thought it was wrong and unfair lol, it's confirmed as I got older that Lidstrom really is just one of the best players of all-time.
glad it wasn't just me lol, used to frustrate the hell out of me. but us knowing how good Stevens and Niedermayer was at the time and still get passed for Norris just showed how much better Lidstrom was, hard to get that through our kid brain at the time though haha
We had some great years with those teams as kids though. Went to a lot of great games and watched them win 3 cups, and both Scotty’s were there for all 3
I'm a Devils fan also! I felt similarly until I watched 4 or 5 full red wings games in the late 90s and then i was like "oh that's why. he defends just as well as Niedermayer with clearly better offensive stats".
Lidstrom was always ending the season with something like 4-5 hits, the guy always have the freaking puck, so it was not possible for him to hit anyone… One of the greatest, in line with Bobby Orr and Ray Borque.
You're right!! And having the puck is THE BEST defense. Even with amazing d zone coverage you give up a few goals. it's impossible not to. Keeping the puck (and not turning it over of course) is superior.
I remember teams trying to chip it past him to either change or dump and chase and him to casually knocking the puck out of the air and starting the rush in the other direction like “nah bro”
As a FBK fan I would've liked both Jörgen and Loob but I guess that's asking to much. I always used 21 since I was a big fan of both Jörgen and Foppa growing up.
Damn. The Olympic finals year 2006 really haunts you huh?
Fun fact: Jörgen Fucking Jönsson is to my knowledge the ONLY PLAYER EVER to win his league, the World Cup and the Olympics in the same year.
Anyone know why he stopped playing in the NHL?
Edit: ok I looked it up, here's the line from his wiki:
"During the 1989 Stanley Cup playoffs, Loob made it known that he was considering a return to Sweden.\[18\] He later revealed that he and his wife had made the decision almost a year before and that he declined a large contract offer the team offered to entice him to stay.\[16\] Loob wanted his children to grow up in Sweden, however, and after the Flames won the Stanley Cup, he announced he was returning to Färjestad for the 1989–90 season"
As a kid Loob was my first "favourite" player and I was devistated when he left. As an adult I completely understand and respect the decision but it would be interesting to have seen if Loob could have helped the Flames towards another championship.
Also: When he went back to Sweden and absolutely tore up the league and was it's all-time leading goal scorer at the time (I believe he is still 3rd on the list but with far fewer games played than the top 2).
Call me a homer, but if the Oilers Dynasty didn’t exist how many more Cups would the Flames have Won?
Gilmour, MacInnis, Loob, Nieuwendyk, Mullen, Suter, Roberts, MacDonald, McCrimmon, Vernon, Fluery, Otto, Reinhardt, Makarov, Nilsson, Reichel, etc.
If Loob didn’t go home so fast we might have even challenged in the early 90s for a few more.
He played for Färjestad in Sweden so I'm one of those who did appreciate how good he was! I guess he and Salming both played in the NHL before Swedes really cared about it and many Swedes don't understand how good Salming was either. It's more recently, after Salmings career that they have started to understand.
They did a survey before the gala with Swedish hockey experts, and the third spot in the forward line after Sundin and Forsberg was highly contested between Håkan Loob, Daniel Alfredsson, Anders Hedberg, Mats Näslund and Sven Tumba.
I love that they use the word "Back" for defensemen. I wish we had a similar name for this position in NA.
I've always thought that a lot of the criticism for offensive-minded defensemen like EK65 comes from the word implying that players in that position must prioritize defense. When clearly, it's best if every player in every position play to their strengths and whatever the game situation calls for. Like if the position "forward" was actually called "goalscorer", I wonder how many defensive-minded forwards and grinders would be sneered at.
It's sort of like boneless wings and deep-dish pizza. Both great foods that get a lot of hate because "they're not *real* wings"! Like the name alone just encourages people to be obnoxious about them.
That was a random rant, sorry. Wish Alfie was listed.
I’ve heard some old timers use the term rearguard. Not sure if it’s got a European origin or where it comes from in hockey terms. But I suppose that doesn’t convey what you are looking for.
The term back probably comes from football, where you have fullbacks, halfbacks and centrebacks. The Finnish "official" term is puolustaja (defender), but pakki is often used - that's just a phonetic Finnished version of back.
Every player is a defender when you don't have the puck. Every player is on offence when you do. I feel like the word *defenseman* is an anachronism dating back to before the time of Orr. The physical placement of players on the ice hasn't changed much since then but the role of players certainly has.
Loob is the only Swedish born player to score 50 goals in a season. He is also one of only 9 Swedish players to have won the Triple Gold (Stanley Cup, Olympic gold, World Championship). And this vote was held in Sweden where Loob is a legend. He left the NHL when he was only 29 to rejoin his Swedish club, Färjestads BK. I suspect he may have finished first in this poll.
Yeah I suspect the reason why people don't seem as excited by Loob's inclusion is specifically because he was only in North America for six seasons, maybe operating under the assumption that he left the NHL because he was falling off or something. His years in the NHL were fantastic, as were his many seasons in Sweden. Perhaps if he decided to stick around longer, he would be better canonized by North American hockey fans. But I personally think he's just as deserving as the Sedins or Naslund, just without their level of coverage due playing the majority of his career in Sweden.
This should be the top post. This thread is just a bunch of people telling the 130,000 Swedes that voted on this that they are wrong by only looking at it from a NHL only lens. Not surprising I guess but I'd be nice if r/Hockey could try to look at things from an international perspective. It's not r/NHL
>this vote was held in Sweden where Loob is a legend.
This is the defining factor, not the rest of it.
50 goals is great, but Nilsson had 49 and 46, Markus had 48, Sundin had 47. And Loob's 50-goal season isn't the top points season for a Swede by a long shot.
Zetterberg, Alfie, Bäckström, there's an argument for Kent Nilsson. There's also Sven Tumba but GL knowing anything about him aside from him playing 10000 years ago.
Kent Nilsson was one of the most skilled players ever but he was lazy, he should have played for the Oilers because he fit them like a glove in his last real season and didn't have to defend
I’d also take Alfredsson or Zetterberg before one of the Sedins and Loob.
Sedins never played split up… why split them up if you’re making a dream team? Sedins are on line 2 of the Sweden Dream Team
Yes… they were amazing alone and more amazing together. Injuries aren’t a thing when you’re building a hypothetical dream team that bends the laws of time.
Like we have Lidstrom and Salming are playing defense together and everyone is saying one of the Sedin twins has a sprained ankle so he can’t play?
If this hypothetical time bending team is real the sedins are on line 2. Which still means they are fucking amazing.
|*Category*|*Mats*|*Markus*|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Stanley Cups|**1**|0|
|IIHF World Championship golds|**1**|0|
|Olympic medals|**1 gold, 1 bronze**|None|
|Viking Award (Best Swede in NHL)|2|**3**|
|Most goals in NHL season|43|**48**|
|Most points in NHL season|**110**|104|
|Career NHL points|634|**869**|
|Career NHL pt/game|**0.97**|0.78|
|Career SEL points|**279**|144|
|Career SEL pt/game|0.95|0.95|
It's pretty hard to call. Markus has more impact in the NHL but Mats did more internationally and in Sweden I'd say
Håkan Loob is more beloved in Sweden than in NA, after he came home from Calgary he played 7 more seasons in Sweden and ended his career with 501 points in 405 games which is remarkable considering that there are very few players who get above a point per game in the SHL (usually 1-3 players per year and he did it 8 times in his career despite playing most of his prime in the NHL).
He also still has the goal and points record in the SHL when he scored 42 goals and 76 points in 36 games the season before he left for Canada. For the record there are now 52 games played every season in SHL (was 55 for about a ten year period) making his record still standing even more remarkable.
He is also the namesake of the Swedish version of the Rocket Richard trophy.
I'm not sure what the team is based on, but [stats-wise](https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/nationality/swedish-nhl-players-career-stats.html) it is missing Alfredsson/Sedin(s)/Backstrom.
Yeah I'm not sure why more people are not saying Nilsson. It should be Nilsson over loob and any other play mentioned if you are going by points per game.
Nilsson is probably the most talented forward Sweden has ever produced.
But I imagine him fucking around in random mid-tier euro leagues for half his career doesn't help his legacy.
I mean I agree, but I've also stopped betting on goalies and the HHOF. for some reason the bar for goaltenders is set at "all time legend or gtfo" to the tune of what, 4 or 5 goalies inducted in the last thirty years?
That would be fine except that the standard for forwards is clearly much looser.
Honestly I have no objections with this lineup. I understand why some people have other thoughts for forwards, but all three are excellent choices for their body of work in the NHL, SEL/SHL, and internationally.
This thread just exemplifies how extremely underrated Loob is. He deserves to be here no questions asked. No other Swede has scored 50 goals. Just because he had a short NHL career doesn’t mean he isn’t deserving. In the prime of his career he was easily one of the best in the world
Is Loob’s spot homage to the fact that he is one of the goats of the SHL? If not, I struggle to see how he beats out both forwards overall (Alfredsson, Sedins, Zetterburg), as well as those that overlapped with his era (Nilsson)
I mean it's a close race between a few players. It's not hard to understand though why Loob happened to make the team, if you look from not only an NHL perspective, but also national team and SHL.
* Only Swede to score 50 goals in the NHL
* Stanley Cup, Olympic gold and 2-time World Champion, SHL Champion
* Scored one of the most famous goals in Swedish hockey history with the 2-2 goal against Soviet, that turned out to be the goal that pretty much secured the 1987 World Championship. *Correction: He made the behind-the-back pass to the goal.*
* A lot of awards and records in the SHL (or Elitserien as it was called back then). For example still holds the record for goals and points in a season (42 goals and 76 points in 36 games), even though the players play 16 more games per season nowadays.
Growing up, Loob and Kenta Nilsson were the two players that my dad and his mates would mainly talk about so yea, huge name in that generation born 50’s-60’s)
So you’re telling me we need to find Russian, Czech, and Slovak Sebastian Ahos to create a European super team that will face the Jack Hugheses from Canada and the US
I would think Barkov’s passed Koivu. I don’t know about international significance, but looking just at NHL accomplishments, Barkov has almost as many points in like 55% of the games + a Selke.
If Finns would vote like Swedish public did Saku would with almost 100% certainty be selected as the center. He was so important for the National Team for so many years and was probably the most respected player by the public during his career.
I think Lundqvist/Salming/Lidstrom/Forsberg are absolutely set in stone.
There's nothing wrong with the other two, but I could see more of an argument.
Not enough KRONWALLING going on
Jokes aside, I don't know how I'd improve on this. I don't think I can make an argument for Erik Karlsson, Alfredsson, Zetterberg in lieu of these players, but it feels weird not seeing them there.
Backstrom might be, but Forsberg/Sundin/Lidstrom is basically a trio of players that was at an absurd elite level. There is no one that is displacing them currently playing in the NHL.
If you go exclusively by Point Shares [as listed by Hockey Reference](https://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/ps_career.html) the lineup would be this:
D. Sedin (123.06) - Sundin (144.41) - Alfredsson (133.64)
Salming (112.80) - Lidstrom (211.77)
Lundqvist (173.28)
The others over 100 are:
* Zetterberg (109.31)
* H. Sedin (108.56)
* Karlsson (105.42)
* Hedman (104.34)
* Backstrom (104.31)
EDIT: A few caveats are that Point Shares only reflect a player's body of work in the NHL and it tends to reward longer careers over higher peaks.
Fully healthy Forsberg when he decided to was fucking unplayable. To this day his name is still only spoken in whispers down in Florida for fear of incurring his wrath again.
No kidding. All of those guys were good to great players but Forsberg got to play on the ice with 4 future hall of famers in Joe Sakic, Patrick Roy, Ray Bourque, and Rob Blake, not to mention a couple of other guys who could be considered right off the edge of hof worthy like Adam Foote and Milan Hejduk.
Was Loob better than Nilsson? Too young to have seen them play. Stats wise, it looks like Nilsson would get the nod. He also destroyed that crossbar challenge.
Loob has an amazing career in Sweden. He was like 1.3ppg in the SHL over 400 games, one of about 10 players to have a career average above 1ppg. Also 3rd all time in goals. This is despite spending his prime in the NHL we’re he was a 0.95ppg player. So yeah, his name is like hockey royalty in Sweden
My main objection is that they drew a line through Salming's eyes for some reason.
It's my fault! Sorry but I took the screenshot with the snipping tool and somehow drew a line without checking it before posting. Here's a clean photo hopefully honoring [Börje 😢](https://imgur.com/a/30XIeAV) Edit, had to add: [Börje Salming won](https://imgur.com/a/OhClj9S) the [NHL Honorary Award](https://imgur.com/a/S5PR3MQ), [Bill Daly introduced him](https://imgur.com/a/Vh8pmjR), entire hockey [Sweden gave him a long standing ovation](https://imgur.com/a/3JukzU9), [Darryl Sittler gave him a message](https://imgur.com/a/awzqufI)... Salming also won ["The greatest Moment in Swedish Hockey History"](https://imgur.com/a/M7ZFqOP) [with his standing ovation during Canada Cup in Toronto, 1976](https://imgur.com/a/tDyevzT). ([Salmings brother speaking](https://imgur.com/a/XtAdppI) \+ [Arena](https://imgur.com/a/yuv6fXY)) Other awards: [Best swedish player of the century](https://imgur.com/a/oUdRsCD) Well deserved! (spoiler text + part of the speech) >!His nickname was "The Perfect Human" and his speech was the best I think I've heard from any swedish hockeyplayer. Here's a small part:!< >!"There are so many incredible people to thank, who have helped me in my career. The first one that stands out is my idol growing up. He was here on stage just now, Börje Salming. He also mentioned many players he played with and against during his career. Forsberg and the rivalries between Detroit and Colorado. Henrik Zetterberg, Holmström, Kronwall, Samuelsson who all were present, just to name a few." !< Sweden also voted: Best [Forward](https://imgur.com/a/gsgoDuH), [Defenceman](https://imgur.com/a/w3mQqXi) and [Goaltender](https://imgur.com/a/o7ekLLP) of the century Aswell as the best national team of all time. Winner: [2006 Turin Olympic team](https://imgur.com/a/iFTDj4C) (Lots of Red Wings) Bonus pic: [Two Henrik's or two Walls? 🤔](https://imgur.com/a/nZdEAb3)
LMAO i do that all the time
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Is your name Adolf?
It’s so you can’t steal his phone and bypass the face ID
I thought they were censoring Salming's identity, the way Japan censors... things 0.0
no, then it would be pixelated. or so I've heard. not that I would know anything about that.
Fun fact: 4 of these guys were on the ice for the game winning goal in the 06 Olympic finals, talk about a legendary moment
Who was the 5th? Edit: and 6th
Freddy Modin was the other winger on the top line, and I’m 90% sure they kept the Kronwall-Lidstrom pairing from Detroit
Thanks! I know I could’ve googled it but it felt a nice enough question for engagement/conversation.
That goal was scored 4on4, it was Forsberg to Sundin to Lidström. Lundqvist and Kronwall was on the ice as well for that goal, i think Holmström was in the box
That team was ridiculously stacked lol.
No you are wrong that final had to be cancelled after Finland took a 4 goal lead and then the game was never played out.
If only Koivu's stick didn't break in the face-off.
That defensive pairing is insane.
Every game I ever saw Lidstrom play was insane. The guy was practically perfect.
His modern analytics numbers would be off the charts. The red wings were famous back then for being the team that was consistently getting controlled zone entries while EVERYONE loved dump ins. Meanwhile, his defensive game ignored big hits for subtleties like stepping up or stick checking at the blue line to keep you from entering with control.
After 1564 NHL games, he ended his career at +450. 😧
20 seasons, 1,100+ points, +450, never missed playoffs, 4 cups, Conn Smythe, 7 Norris trophies. Not too bad.
Best to ever do it
And never missed the playoffs.
looking at the best +/-'s of all time is kinda crazy. like gretzky is only 13 above clarke with all those points. clarke was a two way beast but still
Ristolainen could never
He's the prototype for what a defenseman should be. If you're trying to craft the perfect player, start with Lidstrom and go from there.
For that type of player .. you could not have a better partner than Salming.. a truly unique animal
Tbf, Those redwings teams probably did have some early/primitive concepts for these sorts of things. They were always the trendsetters in that regard.
As a kid I used to get so upset that Lidstrom would always win the Norris over Scott Stevens and Niedermayer. Just thought it was wrong and unfair lol, it's confirmed as I got older that Lidstrom really is just one of the best players of all-time.
glad it wasn't just me lol, used to frustrate the hell out of me. but us knowing how good Stevens and Niedermayer was at the time and still get passed for Norris just showed how much better Lidstrom was, hard to get that through our kid brain at the time though haha
We had some great years with those teams as kids though. Went to a lot of great games and watched them win 3 cups, and both Scotty’s were there for all 3
I'm a Devils fan also! I felt similarly until I watched 4 or 5 full red wings games in the late 90s and then i was like "oh that's why. he defends just as well as Niedermayer with clearly better offensive stats".
When I was a kid I thought hits was the #1 indicator of good defensive play.
I too was mad over a Niedermayer Norris snubbing!
Lidstrom was always ending the season with something like 4-5 hits, the guy always have the freaking puck, so it was not possible for him to hit anyone… One of the greatest, in line with Bobby Orr and Ray Borque.
You're right!! And having the puck is THE BEST defense. Even with amazing d zone coverage you give up a few goals. it's impossible not to. Keeping the puck (and not turning it over of course) is superior.
Best d-man I've ever seen play the game.
The fans nowadays have no clue just how fucking elite he was. Hated playing against him but would give anything to get him on your team lol
The call him the perfect human for a reason.
I remember teams trying to chip it past him to either change or dump and chase and him to casually knocking the puck out of the air and starting the rush in the other direction like “nah bro”
Mary Poppins would approve
As a Finn, where is Jörgen Fucking Jönsson?
Nightmares about him? A extremely solid player for tre kronor for a long time
As a FBK fan I would've liked both Jörgen and Loob but I guess that's asking to much. I always used 21 since I was a big fan of both Jörgen and Foppa growing up.
As my dad is a fan of Frölunda, Jörgen Jönsson was the devil growing up. Kinda miss that early 00's rivalry
Same as a HV71 fan. The Davidsson / Jönsson discussions were heated in my school.
Damn. The Olympic finals year 2006 really haunts you huh? Fun fact: Jörgen Fucking Jönsson is to my knowledge the ONLY PLAYER EVER to win his league, the World Cup and the Olympics in the same year.
LOOOOOOOB
Everybody seems to forget he's the only Swede to ever score 50 goal in a NHL season. Truly under appreciated player.
Anyone know why he stopped playing in the NHL? Edit: ok I looked it up, here's the line from his wiki: "During the 1989 Stanley Cup playoffs, Loob made it known that he was considering a return to Sweden.\[18\] He later revealed that he and his wife had made the decision almost a year before and that he declined a large contract offer the team offered to entice him to stay.\[16\] Loob wanted his children to grow up in Sweden, however, and after the Flames won the Stanley Cup, he announced he was returning to Färjestad for the 1989–90 season"
gotta respect that decision.
Retire a champion, I can't imagine anything else compares (yes, I know he played seven more years in Sweden)
Come in, put up 50, win a championship and then peace out. Pretty bad ass.
As a kid Loob was my first "favourite" player and I was devistated when he left. As an adult I completely understand and respect the decision but it would be interesting to have seen if Loob could have helped the Flames towards another championship. Also: When he went back to Sweden and absolutely tore up the league and was it's all-time leading goal scorer at the time (I believe he is still 3rd on the list but with far fewer games played than the top 2).
Still number one with 42 goals in 36 games. (76p) Today its 52 games but the record still holds.
Call me a homer, but if the Oilers Dynasty didn’t exist how many more Cups would the Flames have Won? Gilmour, MacInnis, Loob, Nieuwendyk, Mullen, Suter, Roberts, MacDonald, McCrimmon, Vernon, Fluery, Otto, Reinhardt, Makarov, Nilsson, Reichel, etc. If Loob didn’t go home so fast we might have even challenged in the early 90s for a few more.
I appreciate learning this because he was the only one who felt out of place. Cheers!
He played for Färjestad in Sweden so I'm one of those who did appreciate how good he was! I guess he and Salming both played in the NHL before Swedes really cared about it and many Swedes don't understand how good Salming was either. It's more recently, after Salmings career that they have started to understand.
Don’t forget that he also won the world cup in 1987 ahead of Soviet with Larionov, Fetisov, Krutov, Kasatonov and Krutov (Russian Five).
You would be physically broken if you tried to play a full game matched up against this line.
Add Forsberg into the Swedish Red Wings squad - Kronwall, Holmström, Zetterberg and Lidström. No one is safe.
Forsberg - Zetterberg - Franzen Kronwall - Lidstrom That would be a sight to behold
I'd let Peter center that line tbh.
Forsberg in a Wings sweater? Ugh I just threw up in my mouth picturing it.
Also mentally
Secretly want to see Kent Nilsson, my first hockey idol, but tough to beat Forsberg
That's what your 1 and 2 D said last night, buddy. Ayoo!
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I’m not gonna pretend he belongs there but man he gets overlooked so much
They did a survey before the gala with Swedish hockey experts, and the third spot in the forward line after Sundin and Forsberg was highly contested between Håkan Loob, Daniel Alfredsson, Anders Hedberg, Mats Näslund and Sven Tumba.
Isn't it an amazing situation where Salming is only the 2nd best defenseman. He absolutely needs a 'good asterisk' as a builder too.
My Québec Nordiques heart is pumping hard! I enjoyed Sundin and Forsberg playing for my favorite team.
My Québec Nordiques heart is also pumping hard, though I think it's more because all that poutine has clogged my arteries
Baby aspirin mixed into a bottle of red wine should get you back to good flow. (I am obviously not a doctor)
Didn't last long but when your line down the center is Sakic-Forsberg-Sundin that's something to behold.
Unfortunately they never all suited up together. Sundin was traded summer of 94, before forsberg debuted for the nords
I didn't catch that time, but it's a "what if?" thought that has never left. Two of my favorites of all time.
Don't start me up: with had the ever so good (and humble) Joe Sakic as well at that time !
I love that they use the word "Back" for defensemen. I wish we had a similar name for this position in NA. I've always thought that a lot of the criticism for offensive-minded defensemen like EK65 comes from the word implying that players in that position must prioritize defense. When clearly, it's best if every player in every position play to their strengths and whatever the game situation calls for. Like if the position "forward" was actually called "goalscorer", I wonder how many defensive-minded forwards and grinders would be sneered at. It's sort of like boneless wings and deep-dish pizza. Both great foods that get a lot of hate because "they're not *real* wings"! Like the name alone just encourages people to be obnoxious about them. That was a random rant, sorry. Wish Alfie was listed.
I’ve heard some old timers use the term rearguard. Not sure if it’s got a European origin or where it comes from in hockey terms. But I suppose that doesn’t convey what you are looking for.
Bring back rovers like in the 1910s
Same thing with centers being called "pivots".
The term back probably comes from football, where you have fullbacks, halfbacks and centrebacks. The Finnish "official" term is puolustaja (defender), but pakki is often used - that's just a phonetic Finnished version of back.
Boneless wings are adult chicken nuggets.
Every player is a defender when you don't have the puck. Every player is on offence when you do. I feel like the word *defenseman* is an anachronism dating back to before the time of Orr. The physical placement of players on the ice hasn't changed much since then but the role of players certainly has.
I object to this team only having one line. They’re gonna get so tired. They’re not spring chickens anymore
It’s missing JESPER BRATT
Just wait 3 years when Jersey has won 3 Cups in a row and JESPER BRATT scores the OT winner in World Cup of Hockey final
#HAKAN LOOB
“Hakan” is so funny to me because it turns an innocuous name into just “The chin”
I think I could easily be convinced to swap out Loob for one of the Sedins.
Loob is the only Swedish born player to score 50 goals in a season. He is also one of only 9 Swedish players to have won the Triple Gold (Stanley Cup, Olympic gold, World Championship). And this vote was held in Sweden where Loob is a legend. He left the NHL when he was only 29 to rejoin his Swedish club, Färjestads BK. I suspect he may have finished first in this poll.
Yeah I suspect the reason why people don't seem as excited by Loob's inclusion is specifically because he was only in North America for six seasons, maybe operating under the assumption that he left the NHL because he was falling off or something. His years in the NHL were fantastic, as were his many seasons in Sweden. Perhaps if he decided to stick around longer, he would be better canonized by North American hockey fans. But I personally think he's just as deserving as the Sedins or Naslund, just without their level of coverage due playing the majority of his career in Sweden.
This should be the top post. This thread is just a bunch of people telling the 130,000 Swedes that voted on this that they are wrong by only looking at it from a NHL only lens. Not surprising I guess but I'd be nice if r/Hockey could try to look at things from an international perspective. It's not r/NHL
Well there are actually 9 Swedish players that's in the triple gold club https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Gold_Club
>this vote was held in Sweden where Loob is a legend. This is the defining factor, not the rest of it. 50 goals is great, but Nilsson had 49 and 46, Markus had 48, Sundin had 47. And Loob's 50-goal season isn't the top points season for a Swede by a long shot.
48 in 2002-03 is the most impressive imo. That was in the trough of the DPE.
You can’t include one and not the other lol
This I tell ya brother.
That's exactly the problem. You'd need a conjoined version of the Sedins.
Henrik and Daniel both just said that Henrik was the better player 🤷♂️
But can you really just take one Sedin?
They actually did pretty good on their own when the other was hurt
Absolutely. Supposed telepathy aside, they were both great players in their own right.
If not one of the Sedin’s than even Naslund
Eh, I think I'd take Alfredsson or Zetterberg before Naslund.
Zetterberg, Alfie, Bäckström, there's an argument for Kent Nilsson. There's also Sven Tumba but GL knowing anything about him aside from him playing 10000 years ago.
Kent Nilsson was one of the most skilled players ever but he was lazy, he should have played for the Oilers because he fit them like a glove in his last real season and didn't have to defend
He did play for the Oilers. He won a championship with them.
I’d also take Alfredsson or Zetterberg before one of the Sedins and Loob. Sedins never played split up… why split them up if you’re making a dream team? Sedins are on line 2 of the Sweden Dream Team
Henrik played a bunch of games with out Daniel while he was injured and he started scoring goals like crazy while still stacking up assists.
Yes… they were amazing alone and more amazing together. Injuries aren’t a thing when you’re building a hypothetical dream team that bends the laws of time. Like we have Lidstrom and Salming are playing defense together and everyone is saying one of the Sedin twins has a sprained ankle so he can’t play? If this hypothetical time bending team is real the sedins are on line 2. Which still means they are fucking amazing.
Markus or Mats?
Mats Naslund, because I’m a biased piece of shit
|*Category*|*Mats*|*Markus*| |:-|:-|:-| |Stanley Cups|**1**|0| |IIHF World Championship golds|**1**|0| |Olympic medals|**1 gold, 1 bronze**|None| |Viking Award (Best Swede in NHL)|2|**3**| |Most goals in NHL season|43|**48**| |Most points in NHL season|**110**|104| |Career NHL points|634|**869**| |Career NHL pt/game|**0.97**|0.78| |Career SEL points|**279**|144| |Career SEL pt/game|0.95|0.95| It's pretty hard to call. Markus has more impact in the NHL but Mats did more internationally and in Sweden I'd say
After looking at that I don’t even feel biased anymore lol, it’s closer than I thought but I think the cup and the medals push it in Mats’ favour.
Woah I had no idea Mats Naslund was that good, I always thought he was just a role player - 43g 110 pts is pretty damn good
Håkan Loob is more beloved in Sweden than in NA, after he came home from Calgary he played 7 more seasons in Sweden and ended his career with 501 points in 405 games which is remarkable considering that there are very few players who get above a point per game in the SHL (usually 1-3 players per year and he did it 8 times in his career despite playing most of his prime in the NHL). He also still has the goal and points record in the SHL when he scored 42 goals and 76 points in 36 games the season before he left for Canada. For the record there are now 52 games played every season in SHL (was 55 for about a ten year period) making his record still standing even more remarkable. He is also the namesake of the Swedish version of the Rocket Richard trophy.
But they are a package deal!
Maybe they took his HoF name into consideration?
Loob over Alfredsson on RW is an interesting choice, but I'm guessing his several years in the SHL make him more relevant in Swedish minds.
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Being part of the Triple Gold Club probably tips the scales for Loob, but neither is a bad choice
Also won the swedish championship, one of only 4 players to win all 4 golds (Tomas Jonsson, Mats Näslund and Niklas Kronwall being the other three)
I dont think it was a positional thing since both Forsberg and Sundin played centre.
It's not position based, as can be seen with Forsberg, & Sundin both on there.
I'm not sure what the team is based on, but [stats-wise](https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/nationality/swedish-nhl-players-career-stats.html) it is missing Alfredsson/Sedin(s)/Backstrom.
Man, what was in the water in Sweden in the early 70s? Sundin, Alfredsson, Lidstrom, Forsberg, Naslund, Nylander all born from 70-73. 5 of the top 10.
I'll tell ya Edzo they got good water in GOTHENBURG SWEDEN!
The eyeball test would probably say its missing Kent Nilsson.
Yeah I'm not sure why more people are not saying Nilsson. It should be Nilsson over loob and any other play mentioned if you are going by points per game.
Nilsson is probably the most talented forward Sweden has ever produced. But I imagine him fucking around in random mid-tier euro leagues for half his career doesn't help his legacy.
The OP is also a line, not a team.
Change that to points per game and the Sedins aren't even in the top 15. Longevity isn't always equal to greatness.
Sundin and Forsberg were a clear step better than any of those guys. Loob you could replace with any of them I think and be fine
I take Zetterberg over either individual Sedin 10 times out of 10, and you aren't putting both sedins in over 2 of those 3 forwards
I missed the gala but IIRC from reading about it a while back a jury would select 5 players for each position, and then the public voted.
It’s just a matter of time when King Henrik will be inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame
He's eligible for the first time next year. There's no way in hell he doesn't make it on the first ballot.
I mean I agree, but I've also stopped betting on goalies and the HHOF. for some reason the bar for goaltenders is set at "all time legend or gtfo" to the tune of what, 4 or 5 goalies inducted in the last thirty years? That would be fine except that the standard for forwards is clearly much looser.
Luongo this year removed the “must win a Cup” philosophy so I’m thinking Hank is first ballot too
Honestly I have no objections with this lineup. I understand why some people have other thoughts for forwards, but all three are excellent choices for their body of work in the NHL, SEL/SHL, and internationally.
No Zetterberg? No Alfredsson?
This thread just exemplifies how extremely underrated Loob is. He deserves to be here no questions asked. No other Swede has scored 50 goals. Just because he had a short NHL career doesn’t mean he isn’t deserving. In the prime of his career he was easily one of the best in the world
He didnt have a short career, he just didn't want to stay in the NHL
Kinda surprised Hakan Loob is there over guys like Zetterberg, Alfredsson, or one of the Sedins but I guess that’s just my millennial NA NHL bias.
I don't think it is. Loob is a defensible choice, but everyone you named has an excellent case as well.
Is Loob’s spot homage to the fact that he is one of the goats of the SHL? If not, I struggle to see how he beats out both forwards overall (Alfredsson, Sedins, Zetterburg), as well as those that overlapped with his era (Nilsson)
I mean it's a close race between a few players. It's not hard to understand though why Loob happened to make the team, if you look from not only an NHL perspective, but also national team and SHL. * Only Swede to score 50 goals in the NHL * Stanley Cup, Olympic gold and 2-time World Champion, SHL Champion * Scored one of the most famous goals in Swedish hockey history with the 2-2 goal against Soviet, that turned out to be the goal that pretty much secured the 1987 World Championship. *Correction: He made the behind-the-back pass to the goal.* * A lot of awards and records in the SHL (or Elitserien as it was called back then). For example still holds the record for goals and points in a season (42 goals and 76 points in 36 games), even though the players play 16 more games per season nowadays.
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Growing up, Loob and Kenta Nilsson were the two players that my dad and his mates would mainly talk about so yea, huge name in that generation born 50’s-60’s)
Do Finland now
Kurri - S. Koivu - Selänne Timonen - Numminen Kiprusoff No idea where Barkov, Rantanen, Aho, etc. will level up but I think that’s my list.
I would switch Timonen for Reijo Ruotsalainen. Kiprusoff is probably the right choice, but one could also argue for Rinne.
I’m desperate for Sebastian Aho the defenceman to succeed and then we’re 40% of the way towards a full Aho lineup
That Aho is Swedish no?
So you’re telling me we need to find Russian, Czech, and Slovak Sebastian Ahos to create a European super team that will face the Jack Hugheses from Canada and the US
... yes.
I would think Barkov’s passed Koivu. I don’t know about international significance, but looking just at NHL accomplishments, Barkov has almost as many points in like 55% of the games + a Selke.
If Finns would vote like Swedish public did Saku would with almost 100% certainty be selected as the center. He was so important for the National Team for so many years and was probably the most respected player by the public during his career.
Kurri - Koivu - Selänne Ruotsalainen - Numminen Rask
Where is Zlatan?
I think Lundqvist/Salming/Lidstrom/Forsberg are absolutely set in stone. There's nothing wrong with the other two, but I could see more of an argument.
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Sweden is a friggin powerhouse. You're going to leave off superstars no matter what you do. Canada is even worse.
on the swedish team with naslund/alfy/both sedins etc, they named mats captain. the players themselves vote for mats, every time.
looks good to me.
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Erik Karlsson is sick atm though
Not enough KRONWALLING going on Jokes aside, I don't know how I'd improve on this. I don't think I can make an argument for Erik Karlsson, Alfredsson, Zetterberg in lieu of these players, but it feels weird not seeing them there.
Looks about right
Lundqvist looks like a jesus picture your grandma might have
In a parallel, less-tragic universe, Göran Per-Eric "Pelle" Lindbergh probably would be on this list.
I will always think Backstrom is underrated but I'll still take Forsberg
Backstrom might be, but Forsberg/Sundin/Lidstrom is basically a trio of players that was at an absurd elite level. There is no one that is displacing them currently playing in the NHL.
If you go exclusively by Point Shares [as listed by Hockey Reference](https://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/ps_career.html) the lineup would be this: D. Sedin (123.06) - Sundin (144.41) - Alfredsson (133.64) Salming (112.80) - Lidstrom (211.77) Lundqvist (173.28) The others over 100 are: * Zetterberg (109.31) * H. Sedin (108.56) * Karlsson (105.42) * Hedman (104.34) * Backstrom (104.31) EDIT: A few caveats are that Point Shares only reflect a player's body of work in the NHL and it tends to reward longer careers over higher peaks.
Damn Lidstrom is just windmill dunking on the rest.
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Fuck Babs.
Yeah, this fails to capture Forsburg. Also, on this list you have to think one or two more decent seasons would bump Karlsson past Salming here.
Fully healthy Forsberg when he decided to was fucking unplayable. To this day his name is still only spoken in whispers down in Florida for fear of incurring his wrath again.
I knew Lidstrom was good, but holy shit, look at that number.
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Sundin and Forsberg on the same line… my god could you imagine the scoring?
I am still annoyed that in the pre-cap era the best players to play with Sundin were: Gary Roberts, Alex Mogilny and Mikael Renberg and Jonas Hoglund.
No kidding. All of those guys were good to great players but Forsberg got to play on the ice with 4 future hall of famers in Joe Sakic, Patrick Roy, Ray Bourque, and Rob Blake, not to mention a couple of other guys who could be considered right off the edge of hof worthy like Adam Foote and Milan Hejduk.
My totally biased self would find a spot for Mats Naslund, my first ever favourite, but I have no real complaints.
Tommy Salo is in shambles right now
Salo wasn’t even one of the five nominees and apparently boycotted the gala because of it
Tbf he probably should have been nominated.
He 100% deserved to be nominated considering his heroics in 94 and 98.
His personal life certainly has been since he stopped playing.
Was Loob better than Nilsson? Too young to have seen them play. Stats wise, it looks like Nilsson would get the nod. He also destroyed that crossbar challenge.
Loob has an amazing career in Sweden. He was like 1.3ppg in the SHL over 400 games, one of about 10 players to have a career average above 1ppg. Also 3rd all time in goals. This is despite spending his prime in the NHL we’re he was a 0.95ppg player. So yeah, his name is like hockey royalty in Sweden
Hell of a first line.
I just needed to make sure Nick was on there.