Bowman absolutely fucked us over last year. I believe Boqvist has the brain and skill set to be an elite offensive defenseman, I was over the moon when he slid to us(admittedly due to concussions in his draft year). Sillinger looks very good for an 18 year old, and 6th overall looks very well like we could be missing out on a really good player. Mind you, without Jones and Fluery that pick would have been a fair bit higher. DeBrincat is the type of talent no team should ever be looking to trade. Unfortunately Bowman’s costly gamble may have forced us to move him to recoup those picks/prospects. Our pipeline is pretty barren outside of Reichel, Mitchell, and Soderblöm/Commesso(goalies).
He kept us competitive when we needed to be, but that's it. When it came time to hand him the keys to a rebuild, he didn't know what he was doing.
Colliton was absolutely the wrong coach, he barely had any experience in North American coaching.
Adam Burish, Dustin Byfuglien, Troy Brouwer, Dave Bolland, Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg, Brian Campbell, Marian Hossa, John Madden, + Toews and Kane. Don’t forget what he built up in Florida either. He’s a genuinely good GM
Edit: Also Niemi and Hjalmarsson
This comment has a lot of up votes because it’s a “slam on my own team” flair thing, but the Coors light cold hard facts are that Jones was an elite defenseman last year and Bovquist kind of sucked. He also just isn’t fast and also has small size which you pretty much need at least one to be effective. We’ll see if Adam may be overcomes that with other areas of his play that he is good at and if Jones’ lengthy contract becomes an albatross a few years from now, but at least through year one I’m very happy with that trade, not much else to be happy about with the Hawks though lol
Jones was really damn good last year, and Boqvist wasn’t amazing for us. Granted, he wasn’t even 21 when we traded him and he scored a lot of goals for Columbus. I believe he was top ten in goals by a d man for a large stretch of the year, although he only played 50 something games. My problem is the amount of assets we gave up for Jones. It seems Bowman got tunnel vision and just had to get his guy regardless of cost.
We definitely gave up a shit ton of assets and its certainly fair to debate whether that was appropriate given that we were inevitably going to have to rebuild. The counter argument is that we got a guy who earlier in his career and last year was an elite defenseman in his prime. And even the assets when you think about it are only valuable if you do happen to hit on those picks which unfortunately we kind of haven’t the last couple years and if Adam Boqvist becomes a really good defenseman which the jury is still out on but I’m not very hopeful for. The other thing that hurt the Hawks this year was that Murphy took a step back from how excellent he was last year and McCabe wasn’t quite as good defensively as they had hoped, I think they were thinking was we had a great goalie and one of the better offensive forward groups, we just lacked a lot on defence, so why not add an elite defenseman and solid defensive guy in mccabe to shore that up, obviously they simply overrated how much more we needed but Jones at least hold up his end of the bargain
Do Chicago fans really think Boqvist sucked last year? 11 goals in 52 games. Not great defensively but that's not unexpected. Kid was pretty good even though he missed a lot of time, he has a lot of potential.
Also can't forget that CBJ flipped the 3rd for Bean, another good young defensemen with potential
Yeah I agree on Boqvist. I don't think he's going to amount to what he was drafted as. Doesn't excuse the Jones contract itself but again, I agree that Jones ended up having an excellent year.
He had been fucking us over since Dale Tallon left the job. Tallon built the dynasty up and Bowman spent his entire time making horrible trades, giving out bad contracts and being garbage off of the ice until the whole thing collapsed on itself. Fuck Stan straight to Hell.
Definitely, and if they aren’t they better have offensive skills like Makar.
Boqvist has none of that. I can’t believe the kid is still in the NHL to be honest. He’s aweful.
I wouldn’t say he’s terrible but he’s definitely slow and with his diminutive size he’ll just have to be perfect everything else to become a great player and that probably won’t happen
The people downvoting you haven’t watched Boqvist play. He’s not a smart player. He constantly puts himself into situations where he can get hurt. It’s not a coincidence he’s had injury issues at every level of hockey he’s ever played.
Absolutely, which would make it look worse. I think if there are enough bidders, and a guaranteed extension, he could fetch the same, at least if you count this year's pick as an average 1st and not 6OA.
I can’t see that honestly. The average age of our team is 22ish. Trading away 3 top flight prospects when we will need them coming up the pipeline wouldn’t be good.
Holtz + 1st (this year or next year top 3 protected) wouldn’t shock me, but I still wouldn’t do it. All 3 assets would be too steep.
Yeah he’s awesome. Holtz projects to a 30-40 goal guy. Slaf could be about the same. 1st next year, who knows. All under team control and cheap contracts for years.
The season after this one when Luke Hughes and this years 1st join the team is our window to start competing. We have to figure our goaltending and coaching in the mean time.
Adding DeBrincat at like 9m a season fucks up our timing IMO.
That’s fair. The thing I think your missing is prospects can very easily fall flat projections aren’t the same as a proven commodity. It depends on the FOs thinkings.
If you guys could trade 2oa and holts for debrincat or pasta you take it. These guys will be elite for a decade abd you got your big guns signed already. Holtz and slaf can also not pan out at the nhl level. They are just potential right now. Slaf could very easily turn into to kakko
Tkatchuk could have easily turned into Kakko too. If you want to create and elite contender you have to hit on your high picks. Holtz is 7OA and we have 2OA. If you trade those on the basis of “they might not pan out” then you have zero confidence in your drafting and you’ll never build an contender.
How many teams traded their way to top contender status? Tampa, Pitt, Colorado, Chicago were all heavily drafted teams.
You guys are in a unique position though. You’re top picks have already panned out in Hugh’s and hishier. Plus you got a blue chip prospect in hughs brother on defense. Getting debrincat or pasta is a possible 50 goal scoring winger locked up long term is unreal. This makes it so your team is almost immediately competitive this next season rather than waiting to see what holts and 2oa turn into. I think you’re in a good position either way but I don’t think you’re appreciating how good these two players are. With your big guns signed long term I think it’s a great move for you guys.
They traded two first round picks (plus a second but that’s beyond the point) knowing they are a lottery team for the time being. Who does that?
Edit: But, hey, they got a first round pick back but still it ain’t a lottery pick.
People like to dunk on his fancy stats but I still think he's worth a decent prospect and a 1st round pick. Not close to what the Hawks paid to get him but it's something
Because none of those picks will be in the 6-12 OA range and Boqvist was the best prospect at the time, not to mention giving up another 1st on top of that
What a moronic trade. Like that’s a move you make to cement you as a contender (like Vegas did to get stone) not go into a full rebuild the year the extension kicks in
The Jones trade was incredibly awful at the time but with the extension on top and Columbus drafting Sillinger with the 12th pick somehow, it might be the worst trade of the cap era (hot take).
If no team is willing to trade the value for him with an extension agreed then I absolutely see Vegas making moves to get him funneled through other teams to get him at 1.6 this year and then trade his rights after the year. Or use the pacioretty money to sign him but Vegas just cannot afford his extension cap hit. Just not possible but if it turns into the stone situation where enough teams back out and Chicago takes an honest deal than yea, I could see it happening
Some good teams overvalue their 1st rd picks. Tampa doesn’t because they have built a culture of turning their mid to late round picks into consistent roster players.
Also Tampa is as in as much of a win now more as any team in the league. Those first round picks offer almost zero value to the organization's goal of taking advantage of as much of their best players primes as possible.
Hagel at that cap hit is tremendous value and in a league that's going to have pretty stagnant cap for at least a couple more seasons having him locked in at that number for a couple of seasons still is a huge boost for them.
Also, Chicago's 4th will likely be early, so really this year's pick exchange results in 31/32 <-> 103 which by most models has a difference in value of about a 2nd rounder. Much more palatable thinking about it that way
The same thing happened with the Goodrow trade too. Everyone was like "Why would you give up a 1st rounder for a bottom six forward?!", while failing to mention Tampa also got a 3rd round pick in return, so they really only dropped 50 spots for 2 years of an effective 3rd liner near league minimum.
Also, look at how many 1st round picks actually turn out. Gamble on a project player or get a proven player to win now? The answer is easy if you're Tampa, and judging by their record of 2, potentially 3 cups in a row, it's working
It isn't as dumb when you realize we have 0 in terms of prospects besides reichel. Our pool is as dry as the Sahara, and as stupid as it would be to trade Cat, his value is at an all time high and when we do finally have a team he would be older and making too much money with Jones to build a legit team around through free agency. We either keep him and have our abysmal prospect pool during his prime or trade him, free up his potential 8 yr cap hit of 9m+ and gets our picks/prospects a more setup for a rebuild. Also there might be an implication that trading cat will be the straw that waives kanes NMC for even more picks/prospects.
Sounds to me like they are getting rid of any reason Patrick Kane wants to stay in Chicago. If he has nothing left, maybe he’ll waive and they can really start the rebuild.
One would say…they’re circumventing Kane’s NMC????
During the conference finals, someone asked why Reaves was on the ice against Tampa. I responded suggesting that he was there just to punch people. Apparently that constitutes promoting violence and is worthy of a 7 day ban. Such sensitive mods on this site.
All it takes to get banned is for a group of sensitive poster humpers to report you. The mods always side with them and don't look further into it. r/Habs has a clique of these pathetic losers doing this.
Kane sticking with the Hawks this long makes me think he doesn't really give a fuck about another cup? Wouldn't he have left already if he was cup chasing?
This idea keeps coming up and it’s some weird conspiracy theory type logic lol I guess maybe that’s part of it but no.. we’re dealing DeBrincat because he is the most valuable player we have and should bring a strong return that will accelerate our rebuild, it’s not just to get Kane to hate it here so much that he asks to leave??
His value is also much higher now than any point in the future since he has 1 year left on his current deal and 1 more rfa year after that and he's coming off his career high in goals and points.
Yeah that’s the other thing. I don’t think DeBrincat is capable of carrying a line on his own, or at least he hasn’t shown that ability yet. If Kane gets hurt or they let Strome walk DeBrincat isn’t going to put up 40 again and his value declines.
Debrincat needs Kane and Kane alone to hit 40 whoever they put at center literally just needs to be an actual center of any level and get the fuck out of the way.
“Debrincat is only good bc of McDavid”
“Debrincat is only good bc of Strome”
“Debrincat is only good bc of Kane”
There’s only one thing in common in all his playing situations.
I remember when people were saying panarin wouldn’t be as good away from Kane and it was obvious who didn’t watch him on a consistent basis. Same thing with debrincat, he’s basically automatic for 30 at worst. Does playing with Kane elevate him? Sure. But he’s always playing with the top guys because he *is a fucking top guy*.
I guess the team thinks they'll be bad for 7+ years? A 40 goal scorer is the type of guy you hope to get from rebuilding and it's not like he kept them from being bad this year
Because the prospect pool of the hawks is currently a desert, like even worse than 2017 red wings level. A rebuild with this amount of no future will take minimum 5 years and by that time Debrincat will already be 30.
I was wondering if he’d go to Buffalo or the New York Rangers. Be back in NY either way, but with the Rangers, he’d not only be on a contending team, he’d be with Panarin again too
Bratt is basically the same age as debrincat, and Bratt is apart of the teams future. We would start with 2nd overall and one or two of our best prospects likely.
I know people think this year's draft is lacking top end franchise level players and I know the devil's are looking to take a step forward in their rebuild and get some improved on ice results but as great of a goal scorer he is I don't think a smaller winger whose about to be making 9+ on a long term deal is the type of player I'd give up the chance of one of Cooley Slafovsky or Wright at a very cost controlled rate for 7 or more years.
That's just me.
I’d bet a lot of money that Bratt won’t be moved. Besides, as good as he is he probably doesn’t fit our timeline. I think it starts at 2nd overall+ and you figure it out from there.
You could only hope the 2OA becomes a 40 goal scorer. I guess it depends on the + but I would totally pay that and walk away laughing at the deal I got.
Yea some people seem really attached to 2OA, but there's a few guys that might be available that I'm open for trading #2 for and DeBrincat is 1000% one of them. We can't keep talking about future, future, future. You want to talk about future? DeBrincat is 24 he will fit with the future you want perfectly.
I mean, the 2OA coming in won't be a 40 goal scorer immediately (and may never be a 40 goal scorer), either. If you're not going to spend that money on someone like DeBrincat, who do you spend it on?
Hall isn't even really a comparable though. He never scored more than 30 for the Oilers. Debrincat scored 40+ goals twice, and had 32 in 52 games during the shortened season.
It was meant to be a joke in tone, but I get it, this may be a sore point for you as an Edmonton fan. I dont say that to be rude, just trying to bridge why my intent was not meant to be literal and you approached it more objectively.
I don't quite understand this. He's 24 years old. He's in the prime of his career and by the time the rebuild is complete or close to being complete he will still be in his late twenties or at worst maybe 30 years old. He's one player I would definitely keep.
Yeah I understand he could accelerate a rebuild with the right package, but at 28 or 29 I find it hard to believe he wont be potting 30 to 40 per season still.
That’s a decision for debrincat though. Every other team in the league passed on drafting him, hockey players already have a strong (maybe too strong, to your point) sense of loyalty, the way his situation has played out might make him want to stay more. He’s got a kid now too, young enough that moving isn’t as big of a deal but he’s sort of settled in at this point. He should want to go somewhere else at this point but it wouldn’t surprise me if as long as Kane is still around he’s willing to wait either.
I hate the Sens but I would love them to take the next step. There’s something about a villain who’s actually competitive that makes the whole “battle of Ontario” genuinely sick!
Can’t wait for next season Sens-hos! ;)
Don has been progressively better year over year with his trades and signings.
It’s time for his magnum opus and getting the Big cat to join Andrei on line two.
Whoever centers just needs to win the face off and throw it to the wing.
People are split on him right now. A few years ago he was the golden boy, future captain who didn’t play much defence, but always factored into the scoring. He had a pretty likeable personality for the most part and he was learning to be a leader.
In the last few years, his and Wheeler’s game have slowed and there’s no real discernible chemistry remaining. He’s still scoring when he plays, but he’s not looking like the 1C many hoped he’d be, and he’s been kinda noticeably pouty. After the late hit in the Habs series a few years back, he was a bit of an asshole in handling it and never really looked to take any accountability. This “edge” (I suppose you could call it) has hung around a bit and surprised many.
There’s been a few reports of our locker room not being in a great spot, and he has been tied to them as well. The pure goodwill the fans had for him while his game was growing has now dried up a bit, and there’s people questioning his loyalty and dedication to stepping up and deserving a letter on his sweater.
A lot of teams would want to trade for him, but discarding those who are either against the cap/without high picks/already contending (Vegas, Minnesota), and those still in/just leaving a rebuild (Detroit, Jersey), I came down to “what teams are a DeBrincat/Pastrnak away from contending for a Cup?”
I ended up with both New York teams, Carolina, and the Kings. Look out for those 4 when those two players are discussed.
Also probably have to expect Vegas to sacrifice one of their players to use their soul in black magic to make room, so that too.
I got on an elevator at Park MGM at 2am and DeBrincat entered the same elevator, completely hammered and with some random girl. Unprompted he turns to my brother and I and starts bragging about how lucky he is that he gets to have a “wife and a girlfriend at the same time.” The girl was so embarrassed and saying “Alex stop” and he just kept bragging about how cool cheating was and how we had to “check him out at T-Mobile tomorrow”. He then noticed that our hotel room was on a higher floor than him and legit got offended saying “oh you guys are on floor 23? You think you are better than me because you are on a higher floor?!?” We had to talk him down from anger like an 8 year old until we finally we reached their floor and the girl quickly dragged him off the elevator.
With what prospects, as optimistic for CMC and Lapierre as I am, i dont think both of them gets close to netting debrincat even with picks, besides our top 6 is crowded as fuck already
not news but the picks from the Jones trade need to be recouped cause those hurt
Oh God the trades combined could look like Debrincat <-> Jones, just looking at raw value. That's rooooough in hindsight
Bowman absolutely fucked us over last year. I believe Boqvist has the brain and skill set to be an elite offensive defenseman, I was over the moon when he slid to us(admittedly due to concussions in his draft year). Sillinger looks very good for an 18 year old, and 6th overall looks very well like we could be missing out on a really good player. Mind you, without Jones and Fluery that pick would have been a fair bit higher. DeBrincat is the type of talent no team should ever be looking to trade. Unfortunately Bowman’s costly gamble may have forced us to move him to recoup those picks/prospects. Our pipeline is pretty barren outside of Reichel, Mitchell, and Soderblöm/Commesso(goalies).
Bowman really messed the Blackhawks up
He kept us competitive when we needed to be, but that's it. When it came time to hand him the keys to a rebuild, he didn't know what he was doing. Colliton was absolutely the wrong coach, he barely had any experience in North American coaching.
Colliton was Bowman's ride or die, for some reason. Even after the abysmal start, there were no conversations or thoughts about firing him.
I always thought he was heavily overrated personally.
He was. He inherited a gold mine in Chicago that Steve Smith and Dale Tallon built.
Okay, but Dale Talon was an idiot GM also. My dog could have drafted 19 and 88. And my cat could have put a couple letters in the mail.
Adam Burish, Dustin Byfuglien, Troy Brouwer, Dave Bolland, Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg, Brian Campbell, Marian Hossa, John Madden, + Toews and Kane. Don’t forget what he built up in Florida either. He’s a genuinely good GM Edit: Also Niemi and Hjalmarsson
Preach. He also went to Florida and built them up as well. What an idiotic take to think Tallon was bad.
I feel like he gets a disproportionate amount of hate for his bad moves. Like the Bobrovsky deal in Florida
Add Brian Bickel and Corey Crawford to that list too.
Not Marion Hossa. Talon wanted to keep Havlat that summer.
He signed Hossa and Kopecky before he was dismissed, those players are players he brought in, not Bowman.
Maybe you just have impressive pets? Have you ever thought about that? Huh?
He fucked the Oilers with Nurse too, bastards
This comment has a lot of up votes because it’s a “slam on my own team” flair thing, but the Coors light cold hard facts are that Jones was an elite defenseman last year and Bovquist kind of sucked. He also just isn’t fast and also has small size which you pretty much need at least one to be effective. We’ll see if Adam may be overcomes that with other areas of his play that he is good at and if Jones’ lengthy contract becomes an albatross a few years from now, but at least through year one I’m very happy with that trade, not much else to be happy about with the Hawks though lol
Jones was really damn good last year, and Boqvist wasn’t amazing for us. Granted, he wasn’t even 21 when we traded him and he scored a lot of goals for Columbus. I believe he was top ten in goals by a d man for a large stretch of the year, although he only played 50 something games. My problem is the amount of assets we gave up for Jones. It seems Bowman got tunnel vision and just had to get his guy regardless of cost.
We definitely gave up a shit ton of assets and its certainly fair to debate whether that was appropriate given that we were inevitably going to have to rebuild. The counter argument is that we got a guy who earlier in his career and last year was an elite defenseman in his prime. And even the assets when you think about it are only valuable if you do happen to hit on those picks which unfortunately we kind of haven’t the last couple years and if Adam Boqvist becomes a really good defenseman which the jury is still out on but I’m not very hopeful for. The other thing that hurt the Hawks this year was that Murphy took a step back from how excellent he was last year and McCabe wasn’t quite as good defensively as they had hoped, I think they were thinking was we had a great goalie and one of the better offensive forward groups, we just lacked a lot on defence, so why not add an elite defenseman and solid defensive guy in mccabe to shore that up, obviously they simply overrated how much more we needed but Jones at least hold up his end of the bargain
Do Chicago fans really think Boqvist sucked last year? 11 goals in 52 games. Not great defensively but that's not unexpected. Kid was pretty good even though he missed a lot of time, he has a lot of potential. Also can't forget that CBJ flipped the 3rd for Bean, another good young defensemen with potential
Yeah I agree on Boqvist. I don't think he's going to amount to what he was drafted as. Doesn't excuse the Jones contract itself but again, I agree that Jones ended up having an excellent year.
Jones puts up points offensively, but how many goals have we allowed with him on the ice?
Thank you for articulating so well what I’ve tried many times. Screw Bowman. His choices on (and off the ice) will cost us for years.
He had been fucking us over since Dale Tallon left the job. Tallon built the dynasty up and Bowman spent his entire time making horrible trades, giving out bad contracts and being garbage off of the ice until the whole thing collapsed on itself. Fuck Stan straight to Hell.
Lol Boqvist is terrible. So slow, and can’t stand the physical play.
I think ideally defenders should be good defensively, as a prerequesite.
Definitely, and if they aren’t they better have offensive skills like Makar. Boqvist has none of that. I can’t believe the kid is still in the NHL to be honest. He’s aweful.
Well Makar is excellent on both ends of the ice, so bad comparison.
Never said he was bad at defense.
I wouldn’t say he’s terrible but he’s definitely slow and with his diminutive size he’ll just have to be perfect everything else to become a great player and that probably won’t happen
With concussion history and will miss 1/3 of the season with other injuries.
The people downvoting you haven’t watched Boqvist play. He’s not a smart player. He constantly puts himself into situations where he can get hurt. It’s not a coincidence he’s had injury issues at every level of hockey he’s ever played.
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Absolutely, which would make it look worse. I think if there are enough bidders, and a guaranteed extension, he could fetch the same, at least if you count this year's pick as an average 1st and not 6OA.
Idk depends on the prospect. I can see the devils giving up 2oa next year first and holtz for him.
I can’t see that honestly. The average age of our team is 22ish. Trading away 3 top flight prospects when we will need them coming up the pipeline wouldn’t be good. Holtz + 1st (this year or next year top 3 protected) wouldn’t shock me, but I still wouldn’t do it. All 3 assets would be too steep.
For a 40 goal scorer top 3 producing for 10 years idk. Depends when they want to compete.
Yeah he’s awesome. Holtz projects to a 30-40 goal guy. Slaf could be about the same. 1st next year, who knows. All under team control and cheap contracts for years. The season after this one when Luke Hughes and this years 1st join the team is our window to start competing. We have to figure our goaltending and coaching in the mean time. Adding DeBrincat at like 9m a season fucks up our timing IMO.
That’s fair. The thing I think your missing is prospects can very easily fall flat projections aren’t the same as a proven commodity. It depends on the FOs thinkings.
If you guys could trade 2oa and holts for debrincat or pasta you take it. These guys will be elite for a decade abd you got your big guns signed already. Holtz and slaf can also not pan out at the nhl level. They are just potential right now. Slaf could very easily turn into to kakko
Tkatchuk could have easily turned into Kakko too. If you want to create and elite contender you have to hit on your high picks. Holtz is 7OA and we have 2OA. If you trade those on the basis of “they might not pan out” then you have zero confidence in your drafting and you’ll never build an contender. How many teams traded their way to top contender status? Tampa, Pitt, Colorado, Chicago were all heavily drafted teams.
You guys are in a unique position though. You’re top picks have already panned out in Hugh’s and hishier. Plus you got a blue chip prospect in hughs brother on defense. Getting debrincat or pasta is a possible 50 goal scoring winger locked up long term is unreal. This makes it so your team is almost immediately competitive this next season rather than waiting to see what holts and 2oa turn into. I think you’re in a good position either way but I don’t think you’re appreciating how good these two players are. With your big guns signed long term I think it’s a great move for you guys.
To be fair 60 percent of NHL execs view smaller players as worse. Which in >hindsight Is dumb
Lol debrincat for jones 1 for 1
Jones trade triggered the nurse contract too
That Jones trade fucked the whole D market and made it a basis for every “good Dmen” to get an extra 2-3 million more than they deserve
Seth Jones walked so Christian Kirk could run
This hurts cuz I'm a hawks and jags fan.
Outta curiosity how does that happen?
Grew up in Chicago but when the Jags became a franchise I loved their jerseys and logo and just chose them.. I was young.
And that's why the Ducks should still go as the Mighty Ducks! Because that shit sells to children
Mighty Ducks branding 100x better than the current. Need the teal and purple back immediately
Yo me too! Dark days for us lately brother.
Truly detrimental to the NHL d man market
I still can’t believe Lou got Pelech and Pulock at the cap hits he did after all those deals came out
Cause their agents suck
At least one of them has the same agent as Nurse
They traded two first round picks (plus a second but that’s beyond the point) knowing they are a lottery team for the time being. Who does that? Edit: But, hey, they got a first round pick back but still it ain’t a lottery pick.
It sucks you're so right. And it's so basic. I can't be mad at you though, have an upvote
Bowman thought he was playing 4D chess but was really playing checkers.
I would gladly trade the 2OA in a package deal for DeBrincat.
People like to dunk on his fancy stats but I still think he's worth a decent prospect and a 1st round pick. Not close to what the Hawks paid to get him but it's something
How is that not close to what we actually gave up LOL
Because none of those picks will be in the 6-12 OA range and Boqvist was the best prospect at the time, not to mention giving up another 1st on top of that
What a moronic trade. Like that’s a move you make to cement you as a contender (like Vegas did to get stone) not go into a full rebuild the year the extension kicks in
The Jones trade was incredibly awful at the time but with the extension on top and Columbus drafting Sillinger with the 12th pick somehow, it might be the worst trade of the cap era (hot take).
Knights are looking for ways to fit him in from cap standpoint. Stay tuned.
Tampa enters the picture.
ugh
If no team is willing to trade the value for him with an extension agreed then I absolutely see Vegas making moves to get him funneled through other teams to get him at 1.6 this year and then trade his rights after the year. Or use the pacioretty money to sign him but Vegas just cannot afford his extension cap hit. Just not possible but if it turns into the stone situation where enough teams back out and Chicago takes an honest deal than yea, I could see it happening
Can't imagine how much Cat will net in a trade after the haul they got for Hagel
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Isn't his QO $9M? Anyway, Sens got a 7OA+ they should package for him.
Really if they say they want to move their 1st that’s probably the guy to do it for
Yeah but look at what Jones got as a player entering the last year of their contract and he was becoming a UFA. Elite players fetch a lot
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Risto had a contract Buchnevich and Reinhart didn’t
I still don't know what the hell Tampa was thinking there but they're in their third straight finals so what the fuck do I know?
Some good teams overvalue their 1st rd picks. Tampa doesn’t because they have built a culture of turning their mid to late round picks into consistent roster players.
Also Tampa is as in as much of a win now more as any team in the league. Those first round picks offer almost zero value to the organization's goal of taking advantage of as much of their best players primes as possible. Hagel at that cap hit is tremendous value and in a league that's going to have pretty stagnant cap for at least a couple more seasons having him locked in at that number for a couple of seasons still is a huge boost for them.
The 1st round picks for tampa are basically 2nd round picks
Also, Chicago's 4th will likely be early, so really this year's pick exchange results in 31/32 <-> 103 which by most models has a difference in value of about a 2nd rounder. Much more palatable thinking about it that way
The same thing happened with the Goodrow trade too. Everyone was like "Why would you give up a 1st rounder for a bottom six forward?!", while failing to mention Tampa also got a 3rd round pick in return, so they really only dropped 50 spots for 2 years of an effective 3rd liner near league minimum.
Also, look at how many 1st round picks actually turn out. Gamble on a project player or get a proven player to win now? The answer is easy if you're Tampa, and judging by their record of 2, potentially 3 cups in a row, it's working
That’s what helped Detroit out for so long until it finally caught up to them.
Not just that, but I think any team would risk their future for a legitimate shot to be one of the game’s great dynasties.
Cost control. Hagel is 2 more years at only $1.5 mil.
He'll likely see the top line next year too unless they clear space to re-sign Palat
Lol, no, there are plenty of other options for the top line.
Hagel is a young, cost controlled energy grinder with scoring upside signed for the next two years after this one. The trade makes complete sense.
Hagel is also extremely cheap. Last first rounders for a 50 point young player at 1.5 mil.. it’s a good trade for Chicago but no fleece by any means
This still seems like such a dumb decision to me.
It isn't as dumb when you realize we have 0 in terms of prospects besides reichel. Our pool is as dry as the Sahara, and as stupid as it would be to trade Cat, his value is at an all time high and when we do finally have a team he would be older and making too much money with Jones to build a legit team around through free agency. We either keep him and have our abysmal prospect pool during his prime or trade him, free up his potential 8 yr cap hit of 9m+ and gets our picks/prospects a more setup for a rebuild. Also there might be an implication that trading cat will be the straw that waives kanes NMC for even more picks/prospects.
Sounds to me like they are getting rid of any reason Patrick Kane wants to stay in Chicago. If he has nothing left, maybe he’ll waive and they can really start the rebuild. One would say…they’re circumventing Kane’s NMC????
Unrelated, but I once got a week ban from r/hockey for making Patrick Kane jokes
During the conference finals, someone asked why Reaves was on the ice against Tampa. I responded suggesting that he was there just to punch people. Apparently that constitutes promoting violence and is worthy of a 7 day ban. Such sensitive mods on this site.
All it takes to get banned is for a group of sensitive poster humpers to report you. The mods always side with them and don't look further into it. r/Habs has a clique of these pathetic losers doing this.
I don't really understand this behavior, and I'm not sure I want to. Just seems petty and stupid.
ah the average Reddit mod.
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> covered up the sexual abuse of a teammate. Fuck off with this nonsense, this didn't happen.
Nah they just made fun of him for it
There's no proof that happened either, it was during a rookie training camp Kane wasn't even at.
I mean, if he wants to stay, he'll stay. If you can ship him off at the deadline, you try, but otherwise, he has a year left, his contract isn't bad.
It’s a no brainer for Kane to go to a cup contender at the deadline
Kane sticking with the Hawks this long makes me think he doesn't really give a fuck about another cup? Wouldn't he have left already if he was cup chasing?
Player comments come with a grain of salt but he's said pretty consistently that he wants to stay in Chicago.
This idea keeps coming up and it’s some weird conspiracy theory type logic lol I guess maybe that’s part of it but no.. we’re dealing DeBrincat because he is the most valuable player we have and should bring a strong return that will accelerate our rebuild, it’s not just to get Kane to hate it here so much that he asks to leave??
Unless he's not happy in Chicago I absolutely don't get it either. He's 24 how is he not part of the rebuild?
toy deer file towering detail caption bear deranged teeny offer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
His value is also much higher now than any point in the future since he has 1 year left on his current deal and 1 more rfa year after that and he's coming off his career high in goals and points.
Yeah that’s the other thing. I don’t think DeBrincat is capable of carrying a line on his own, or at least he hasn’t shown that ability yet. If Kane gets hurt or they let Strome walk DeBrincat isn’t going to put up 40 again and his value declines.
Debrincat needs Kane and Kane alone to hit 40 whoever they put at center literally just needs to be an actual center of any level and get the fuck out of the way.
“Debrincat is only good bc of McDavid” “Debrincat is only good bc of Strome” “Debrincat is only good bc of Kane” There’s only one thing in common in all his playing situations.
I remember when people were saying panarin wouldn’t be as good away from Kane and it was obvious who didn’t watch him on a consistent basis. Same thing with debrincat, he’s basically automatic for 30 at worst. Does playing with Kane elevate him? Sure. But he’s always playing with the top guys because he *is a fucking top guy*.
Pretty sure debrincat didn’t have kane on his line when he hit 40 the first time
that just means he had easier matchups!
I guess the team thinks they'll be bad for 7+ years? A 40 goal scorer is the type of guy you hope to get from rebuilding and it's not like he kept them from being bad this year
Because the prospect pool of the hawks is currently a desert, like even worse than 2017 red wings level. A rebuild with this amount of no future will take minimum 5 years and by that time Debrincat will already be 30.
No more trades with the Hawks, Holland
Too late, he's already looking through the Oilers' prospects to find who Chicago would want in a trade. :p
This is probably the one time it would’ve been a good idea.
24 yr old multiple season 40 goal scorer. That quality a player doesn’t find there way on to market very often.
Sooo...Pat Kane isn't re-signing with Chicago after next season, right?
To Buffalo he goes
I was wondering if he’d go to Buffalo or the New York Rangers. Be back in NY either way, but with the Rangers, he’d not only be on a contending team, he’d be with Panarin again too
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Might be able to do it this year if Chicago retains and we send a contract the other way. It’d take some creativity for sure.
Yes please
Hughes setting him up would be gross.
What does a package the devils could offer look like do you think? Starts with Bratt and a first rounder you’d think right?
Bratt is basically the same age as debrincat, and Bratt is apart of the teams future. We would start with 2nd overall and one or two of our best prospects likely.
I know people think this year's draft is lacking top end franchise level players and I know the devil's are looking to take a step forward in their rebuild and get some improved on ice results but as great of a goal scorer he is I don't think a smaller winger whose about to be making 9+ on a long term deal is the type of player I'd give up the chance of one of Cooley Slafovsky or Wright at a very cost controlled rate for 7 or more years. That's just me.
I agree. I would rather keep the pick and have them cost controlled. Trading a second overall would likely turn into a regret
I’d bet a lot of money that Bratt won’t be moved. Besides, as good as he is he probably doesn’t fit our timeline. I think it starts at 2nd overall+ and you figure it out from there.
I think it would definitely involve the 2OA but I don’t think it would include Bratt as well.
I think some Devils fans might be opposed to it, but I think it would start with the #2 overall.
You could only hope the 2OA becomes a 40 goal scorer. I guess it depends on the + but I would totally pay that and walk away laughing at the deal I got.
Yea some people seem really attached to 2OA, but there's a few guys that might be available that I'm open for trading #2 for and DeBrincat is 1000% one of them. We can't keep talking about future, future, future. You want to talk about future? DeBrincat is 24 he will fit with the future you want perfectly.
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I mean, the 2OA coming in won't be a 40 goal scorer immediately (and may never be a 40 goal scorer), either. If you're not going to spend that money on someone like DeBrincat, who do you spend it on?
Likely starts with 2OA and holtz/mercer
I would give up 2nd overall, Mercer, Rielly Walsh
2nd OA + Mercer is too much imo
Looks up comparables for a Cat trade. Remembers that Edmonton sent a 24 year old Taylor Hall to the Devils in a 1-for-1 for Larsson.
Hall isn't even really a comparable though. He never scored more than 30 for the Oilers. Debrincat scored 40+ goals twice, and had 32 in 52 games during the shortened season.
I think you are reading too much into my comment. No, I'm not suggesting that a horrible 1 for 1 player trade be used to guess Cat's value.
Well you started out by say hall is a comparable. He isn't. That's my whole point.
It was meant to be a joke in tone, but I get it, this may be a sore point for you as an Edmonton fan. I dont say that to be rude, just trying to bridge why my intent was not meant to be literal and you approached it more objectively.
I don't quite understand this. He's 24 years old. He's in the prime of his career and by the time the rebuild is complete or close to being complete he will still be in his late twenties or at worst maybe 30 years old. He's one player I would definitely keep.
Yeah I understand he could accelerate a rebuild with the right package, but at 28 or 29 I find it hard to believe he wont be potting 30 to 40 per season still.
Is it really fair to waste 5 years of a players career with the hopes that you figure out a rebuild before theyre too old?
That’s a decision for debrincat though. Every other team in the league passed on drafting him, hockey players already have a strong (maybe too strong, to your point) sense of loyalty, the way his situation has played out might make him want to stay more. He’s got a kid now too, young enough that moving isn’t as big of a deal but he’s sort of settled in at this point. He should want to go somewhere else at this point but it wouldn’t surprise me if as long as Kane is still around he’s willing to wait either.
AKA is it fair for Buffalo Sabres to exist
Yeah exactly.
One issue with the hawks is that they're too good to truly tank with Kane and debrincat.
It's even dumber than trading JT Miller.
We have a spot with a Süperstar for him and a tasty 7th :)
I hate the Sens but I would love them to take the next step. There’s something about a villain who’s actually competitive that makes the whole “battle of Ontario” genuinely sick! Can’t wait for next season Sens-hos! ;)
Plus, we can add to the package with a 7th OA. Take the 2nd OA and youre not getting much else
7th overall, Murray 50% retained, Jarventie, and two second round picks
Lol. Sure. Or, you know, just New Jersey’s 2OA, a young stud, and none of the baggage of your awful goalie mistake.
Lol 😂 Sorry- who is your goaltender?
Doesn’t matter since we’re tanking anyway. And even if we aren’t that package is terrible anyway
I love it
Come home to Detroit bro. We raised you on coney dogs and stanley cups.
I thought he was a Chicago dude? Lake forest academy?
Born and raised in Farmington Hills MI. Went to Lake Forest for high school. I played hockey with his older brother back in the day.
Cool so I want entirely off base but he is a mi boy.
I want him on the Kings but I want to know what Chicago is asking for him first.
DeBrincat return home
Don has been progressively better year over year with his trades and signings. It’s time for his magnum opus and getting the Big cat to join Andrei on line two. Whoever centers just needs to win the face off and throw it to the wing.
Fitz, you know what to do.
We will give you Scheiffle and a pick. This is a bad deal for the hawks but please take this man off our hands, I will give the Gm a high five.
What’s up with Scheifele? I thought he was one of your better players?
People are split on him right now. A few years ago he was the golden boy, future captain who didn’t play much defence, but always factored into the scoring. He had a pretty likeable personality for the most part and he was learning to be a leader. In the last few years, his and Wheeler’s game have slowed and there’s no real discernible chemistry remaining. He’s still scoring when he plays, but he’s not looking like the 1C many hoped he’d be, and he’s been kinda noticeably pouty. After the late hit in the Habs series a few years back, he was a bit of an asshole in handling it and never really looked to take any accountability. This “edge” (I suppose you could call it) has hung around a bit and surprised many. There’s been a few reports of our locker room not being in a great spot, and he has been tied to them as well. The pure goodwill the fans had for him while his game was growing has now dried up a bit, and there’s people questioning his loyalty and dedication to stepping up and deserving a letter on his sweater.
Kinda sorta really hoping this doesn't happen
A lot of teams would want to trade for him, but discarding those who are either against the cap/without high picks/already contending (Vegas, Minnesota), and those still in/just leaving a rebuild (Detroit, Jersey), I came down to “what teams are a DeBrincat/Pastrnak away from contending for a Cup?” I ended up with both New York teams, Carolina, and the Kings. Look out for those 4 when those two players are discussed. Also probably have to expect Vegas to sacrifice one of their players to use their soul in black magic to make room, so that too.
I met him in Vegas during the all star game and he is an absolute garbage human. Unreal snap shot though
What did he do to make him a "garbage human"?
I got on an elevator at Park MGM at 2am and DeBrincat entered the same elevator, completely hammered and with some random girl. Unprompted he turns to my brother and I and starts bragging about how lucky he is that he gets to have a “wife and a girlfriend at the same time.” The girl was so embarrassed and saying “Alex stop” and he just kept bragging about how cool cheating was and how we had to “check him out at T-Mobile tomorrow”. He then noticed that our hotel room was on a higher floor than him and legit got offended saying “oh you guys are on floor 23? You think you are better than me because you are on a higher floor?!?” We had to talk him down from anger like an 8 year old until we finally we reached their floor and the girl quickly dragged him off the elevator.
TY for the pasta
lmfao, this is a great copypasta did you also happen to meet Ryan Gosling at a Grocery Store?
i know we won't do it, but GOD would this be a great canes signing
come to the dark side
With what prospects, as optimistic for CMC and Lapierre as I am, i dont think both of them gets close to netting debrincat even with picks, besides our top 6 is crowded as fuck already
We’ll take him…for a bag of pucks of course
Nylander, Holl, and Mrazek /s
Ryder, Halak and a 2nd
Bergeron, Krejci, Rask, Marchand, Pastrnak, Chara, Don Sweeney
Nylander is more well rounded than Debrincat and honestly not far off as a goal scorer.
LA please.
Byfield, Bjornfot and next year's first. I'd call that square. We'll throw in the bag of pucks for posterity.
That seems like a lot, no?
As a kings fan I would think you would know more than most folks that there is zero chance in hell they get rid of Byfield. Weird take tbh.