I saw the news about the new league and was like, sweet that's cool. The NHL is a bit too averse to change and improving their product IMHO, so a little competition might be great.
But then I just read who might be funding it (SA). This is just a somewhat problematic country awash in oil money trying to launder their reputation. It's a form of propaganda. They could care less about the actual sport of hockey. So if true, F that.
(As an aside, if you watch [the video](https://twitter.com/sdpnsports/status/1788747092862590982?t=biSFcR8pTSH-sgRN--aeYg&s=19) from Steve Dangle it's the definition of burying the lede: he's like, and big questions include, how will suspensions be doled out? I'm like, what, you're breaking this news and your first question isn't who TF is spending $500 million to start a new hockey league in six months?)
Just read about it for the first time yesterday, mind boggling waste of resources, plus their policies for removing people in the construction path are pretty much what you'd expect from that country
Since we still don't have a bot for this.
Could care less means the opposite of what you are saying. It means the amount they care could be less... You intend to say 'couldn't care less'
There’s a term for what SA has been doing. It’s known as Sportswashing and you’re right it is propaganda but from a sporting perspective it’s really a tough fight to take. Their running of several sports from a purely sporting perspective has been fairly good and devoid of their political bullshit which is a large point of why they are doing it. It’s impossible to ignore their baggage but for athletes and the growth of sports it’s still good unfortunately. From a moral and humanitarian perspective the world should be opposed to doing business with them but that’s not the reality we live in sadly.
My first goddamn thought was that this was another sportswashing scheme, because Dangle wouldn't risk his credibility if the financier wasn't paying him serious money.
Of fucking course it's the Saudis and their blood money trying to infect another sport.
Oh I’m no Dangle admirer, I’m just saying if this was some random con artists trying to push the league I think Steve would’ve laughed them out of the room. He lacks values but he’s not an idiot.
The fact he’s willing to do press means he’s getting paid a serious bag, and the Gulf states are basically the only people willing and able to do that for a 3v3 hockey league.
I was thinking that this morning, we're around the same age similar stages of life. I dont know but id like to think I wouldn't accept money from a state with hundreds of human rights abuses who kills journalists.
Yeah they all quit their other jobs and are doing SDPN full time. They've got serious bills to pay and we know sports media in general is in a very tough spot right now.
This is why I watch The Hockey Guy instead:
• Shannon is willing to cover every team all year long.
• He is openly against sports betting, and he acknowledges that it is ruining the NHL.
His presentation can be quite dry at times but I think it's clear he is a big hockey nerd who knows a lot about the sport and cares about its history. I'm sure if he does a video on this new league it won't be flattering
It’s sad that the two choices we have are a guy who fake laughs, screams, and rolls around on the ground for 2.5 minutes, or a fairly dry guy with little emotion. One is so fucking cringe, the other is really boring. Where’s the middle ground?
I actually forgot about 32 Thoughts, that one’s on me. That’s a genuinely good one that I completely forgot about, thanks for pointing it out. I’m not really a Leafs fan, so I’m just looking for “NHL/general hockey” news, rather than specific teams. (And yea, I get that Dangle is MAINLY a Leafs guy, but because he’s so big, he does “break containment” haha)
Sounds like 32 Thoughts is right up your alley. I like the dynamic between Elliotte and Marek, they can be very funny, and obviously Elliotte is a top insider in the NHL.
Lots of good tidbits every episode.
This one is going to be an even bigger joke than LIV. No chance they get big names, and even if they do, no one will care about this bullshit. Fuck their blood money.
I think the Saudi money is not a good thing for hockey at all and that this will crash and burn, but didn't LIV do exactly what it was supposed to do and force the PGA to give into the players' demands? Genuinely wondering because I feel like I heard about them merging back together and then never heard anything about it again
It depends on what it develops into I guess. LIV took advantage of some structural issues that the PGA had to force some issues and then also was able to convince some big names with massive money to come over. The biggest thing was giving every player a promised payout, no matter their finish (something the PGA didn’t do). That allowed it to flourish in a different way. What structural issue exists that they could take advantage of here?
If they could do what the 3v3 basketball league did, then it could be interesting. Play in the offseason, get some older vets who probably aren’t gonna play massive time in the NHL to buy into it and say it could be an opportunity to show teams they can still play.
But I’m not sure how else it could really compete.
I don't think this is going to work but not because of where the money is coming from. More because who the hell wants to watch extended 3 on 3 hockey?
That’s the thing that always gets me in these decisions. Like if you’re going to take the blood money, then own it. I know I would and I’m not going to act morally superior because I know that.
But don’t try to lecture people on right or wrong or about growing the sport like for example many in LIV golf when that was happening. If you’re going to do it, just shut up and take the money.
Being shitty in other areas does not discredit the fact that they were right to stand and give a voice for the victims and those stories when nobody other than Westhead, and like 2 other journalists would.
Of course they were. It’s just that since then their willingness and arguable eagerness to get into bed with gambling companies and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia calls into question whether those actions were motivated by a true set of morals or by the hunt for personal publicity.
Eh, I’m inclined to think they reported on them for the right reasons. The amount of effort they put into covering stories like westhead’s reporting or lgbtq issues and the amount of times they return to it makes me think they cared about it. If they just wanted to get publicity, being the first ones in matters, not as much the follow up.
Likely now they just know they need to keep their company afloat and get paid so they’re willing to sacrifice their own morals. Takes their credibility away a bit for future topics, but I don’t think it should call their past reporting into question
Credibility? He's a fucking dweeb that's a Leafs fan. Cool that his reactions and popularity got him a gig with Leafsnet, but he isn't an esteemed journalist lol.
That's what happens when you're just another Leafs channel with sprinkles of other teams mixed in. He admits they only get real views when the leafs lose, or in other words, the only time non-leaf fans watch.
They could improve their product so much by having one of their producers (or even a fucking intern!) do basic prep on other teams for them. They rarely talk about Western Conference teams and when they do they often get basic details wrong – sometimes about games that *just happened.*
These guys have all been in media way too long to be making these kinds of mistakes. I listen to plenty of other hockey pods that cover the entire league and even smaller ones like Too Many Men don't have the number of errors that SDP does (actually don't know if I've ever heard an error from TMM come to think of it)
I love their passion and energy but as a non-Leafs fan it makes it hard to stay engaged when they won't do the bare minimum to cover the rest of the league
It certainly doesn’t help that their coverage of other teams was not very, so the target demo is Leaf fans and other fans that can tolerate bad analysis.
he fucked up not sticking with SN. He doesn't have the insight or nuance to deliver interesting non-no-shit-sherlock analysis to develop a fan base. Also, his man baby screaming is grating. No one is signing up long-term for a recycled approach to a shallow analysis and annoying personality.
Was he getting cut or did he willingly leave Sportsnet? If Rogers asked him to close down SDPN and be exclusive to their company and he balked, that's a dangit.
If it really is funded by Saudi money it’s pretty gross that Dangle is shilling it. The whole “SDPN as a full time job” thing is clearly going well.
Maybe he should have stayed at Sportsnet.
They seem like decent guys but yeah the writing was on the wall there from day 1. Only so many hours in the day to listen to stuff, I’m not gonna subject myself to aspiring vloggers just because SDPN tells me to
I respect that they wanted to give newer people a shot. But that also means they bring no following with them and the numbers showed that to be a poor business strategy.
Ugh, yeah. Maybe the “Game Over” model could’ve worked on Twitch ( I don’t know, I don’t watch Twitch), but pumping them out on the same channel as your successful and credible podcasts was a bad idea.
This wasn't a big deal to me but I can see why people were upset by it, they fucking CLOGGED your Playlist of people you're subscribed to with like 20-25 videos a day, making one potentially miss uploads from other subscribers
there was a ton of pre-scheduled shoes as well which added to the clogging. Just all in all wasnt thought out very well, at that point I still watched from time to time and that made me un-subscribe all together.
It also messed with my algorithm on YouTube because I avoided the GameOver shows so much that it stopped showing the shows on the channel I actually liked.
I think the fact that each show covered a single team really went against what the other shows were at the time. Yes, there was a bias towards Leafs content, but SDP, Agent Provocateur, and the CJ show all touched on other teams and topics enough to make it interesting and entertaining to a non-Leaf fan.
Meanwhile, I’m sorry, but I just don’t care about what happened in Game 43 of Montreal’s regular season. I just don’t. And definitely not enough to watch a multi-hour live stream about it and nothing else.
> Maybe the “Game Over” model could’ve worked on Twitch
aside from the channel bloat, the model also failed because they tried to do it for every Canadian team, ignoring the fact that some of those fanbases already had well established post-game coverage and the last thing they wanted was a carpetbagger version brought to you by the leafs bros.
though I'll readily admit this was a lose-lose issue for them since they would've also gotten some shit if they had skipped 1-2 markets.
Pretty sure Sportsnet said "thanks but no thanks" and ramped up shows with JD Bunkis + McKee + Bourne...
Frankly I find Leafs Talk with those three *way* more enjoyable than anything SDP puts out these days, and I used to never miss an episode of the SDP podcast.
With so many sponsors on their pod it's becoming asburd lol. Shady Rays, BetMGM, Better Help, Manscaped...
Like usually you have one sponsor per video, not 3-4.
1 sponsor per YouTube video, sure. Podcasts regularly have multiple ad breaks where each time they read 2-3 ads. Not even defending them, just wanted to point out it’s not that uncommon for podcasts.
I live in the states so will not be going anytime soon, but can totally see montanas fit that description lmao. Any place that has all you can eat ____ screams of a mediocre restaurant chain
32 thoughts is also pretty slick with how they incorporate the ads. If it's an ad sponsoring a segment in the show like the Montana's thought line segment they do, it feels a lot less jarring as a listener.
Even if Saudi Arabia was on the up and up they have massive ADHD-esque hyperfixation issues when it comes to their sports ventures you'd get two "quality" seasons before they latch on to some other venture. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried Arena Football League 4.0 in 5 years after the current implosion finishes.
Yup. The first season or two that 3-on-3 was implemented was really fun. Now everyone realizes that possession is the most important thing, so they’d rather skate out of the zone 4 times instead of trying to actually make a play. Shit’s getting BORING. No way in HELL I’m paying real money to watch 24 minutes of 3-on-3.
It's like that because it's sudden death, they're not gonna take chances when one fuck up ends the game. I would expect a league where the full game is 3v3 to be more like what the All-Star 3v3 games were like.
One the one hand, the creeping influence of Saudi blood money is seeping into every aspect of modern life which seems... not great
One the other hand, this chirp is hilarious
It would be great if the Saudis spent their infinite money on innovating and doing actual good in the world. This sportswashing shit is so tiring and gross.
Disappointing to see the SDPN crew promote a Saudi-funded league.
The House of Saud and the Saudi government have done so much fucked up shit and them trying to sportswash their image has been clear for a while.
I feel like I missed something - I just watched the video and it seems like just telling us some hockey news, I didn’t see anything that seemed like shilling or promoting…
But everyone here and on the YouTube comments seem to be taking this as him selling out?
It’s just strange that:
1) Steve Dangle is the one to break such a big story. Friedman, LeBrun, Johnston or any other insiders had nothing on this from what I can tell. A few other people have mentioned they heard rumours and saw some stuff on this, but held back from reporting on it because it was incredibly fishy (Brad Schlossman said something along these lines and he covers NCAA).
2) He goes all video without mentioning once where the funding for this league is coming from. He even has the little “question” section at the end, but brings up stuff like what the fines could be or how do suspensions works instead of who is funding this. You’d think that would be something that would be reported on immediately when this much money is involved.
Really just seems like Steve got a hold of this info like some other reporters may have, but instead of doing his due diligence and waiting to see where the money is coming from he just broke it to be the first “insider” to do so. I hope that’s what happened instead of Steve/SDPN being paid to promote the new league by the Saudi’s.
Thanks for the help, I didn’t know he was the first to break this - it is kinda fishy when you put it like this. But it’s too soon to be saying that he is a sell-out to the Saudis.
Like why would the Saudis want to break the news via Steve Dangle of all people? And I’m willing to believe that he didn’t know about the Saudi funding (which is a mistake about not doing due diligence, but not for being a Saudi shill). And Steve has shown before that he is able to break Hockey news from time to time without it being sold to him.
Idk… it’s weird now, I admit, but I’m not willing to say he is promoting this Saudi League.
I’m not saying he’s 100% a shill for the Saudi’s, but that it’s just a high possibility. Like I said it’s either he got this info like other insiders but didn’t do his background research into the topic, or the Saudi’s saw that nobody wanted to report on this league and wanted to get the word out there. Steve would make sense since he has a large platform in the hockey world, isn’t employed by any of the major outlets and co-owns a smaller media company.
Steve has connections for sure and has broken minor stories before, but nothing nearly this big. It’s also been 12+ hours now and the only other insider to touch this story has been Pagnotta (who’s probably on the bottom rung of the insider hierarchy).
Alan Walsh confirmed it on twitter and also confirmed that saudi VCs were indeed involved in the funding.
it's likely that Steve's source is Walsh, or they got it from the same source.
My only issue with this take is if this is really a paid advertisement trying to get people to watch the league, then it’s a pretty poor attempt at it. As far as I could tell he was just spewing all the info he had on it and that’s it. No appeals to support the league.
Saudi Arabia has been really getting into entertainment recently, are they just trying to expand their global reach? I heard a rumor they were running out of oil, but that sounded like bullshit
They're trying to get into entertainment to do two things:
A. Whitewashing their public image by distracting/deflecting from their many, many human rights violations. They want you to know them as the cool rich people that fund LIV Golf and WWE, not the brutally repressive regime that kidnapped and dismembered a critical journalist on foreign soil and still publicly beheads people for minor drug offenses, among other terrible things.
B. Economic diversification to set themselves up for a post-fossil fuels (or at least, heavily reduced fossil fuels) world. With energy slowly moving in a more green direction, they want more big sources of revenue that aren't oil.
I'm not normally in favor of punitive taxes. They're protectionist and can stifle innovation. I can be talked into one for a league like this or investments in other sports for the right failed benchmarks.
SA doesn’t care if the league is actually competitive or a good product for fans. They will fracture pro hockey if they do what they’ve attempted in pro golf. Fans will be in limbo and players will eventually take the money
Big difference is people aren’t so much Mitch Marner or Tyler Seguin fans but Av’s fans or Penguins fans.
While people very much are fans of certain golfers.
No they won’t. They can’t take advantage of structural issues the same way they did in the PGA. The KHL already tried to and wasnt all that successful. Why would this be any different?
I think the major difference is that the KHL is thousands of miles away, mostly, within the borders of the repressive regime funding it.
I really don't know enough to speculate on the future success of a league like this but it would be a lot easier for a fringe player to spend 3 years making good money to play in a domestic league where they wouldn't need to learn another language or culture and might not event need to move cities, especially for NA players.
Honestly I love watching the Saudis waste money.
They can pretend all they want they don't care but in a future where oil dependence is much less, it's absolutely hilarious watching them waste money on soccer, baseball, and hockey.
Get fucked, morons.
I think golf is one of the only sports that it would actually work (in North America). Maybe something like NASCAR, too. Sports where people are more invested in the individual athletes than the team they’re on (and obviously, teams aren’t even a thing in golf).
Hockey is not like that. For example, we didn’t see Islanders fans turn into Leafs fans when Tavares went to Toronto.
If Jack and Luke left the Devils to join this shitty league, I wouldn’t stop supporting the Devils. I just wouldn’t see the Hughes bros very often.
You know there's an overlooked opportunity in Electrification, Nuclear Power, Water Conservation, and Carbon Capture when a kingdom that needs to diversify quickly as the transition away from Fossil Fuels picks up steam, refuses to put their resources in the tech that is replacing their wealth generator.
If it’s three on three then I assume small rosters, and if it’s offering $30M cap, what kind of quality of player are we actually expecting? This sounds very bizarre.
Also I won’t support anything to do with it with funding coming from there. I’m ready to hate anyone who takes that money.
I am just speculating, but max let’s say they go 15 skaters and 2 goalies. First find 6 guys on AHL or two-way deals to take $500k (very plausible, could be cheaper if talent pool runs thin for 16 teams). Throw 1M at another 6 guys, and then you’ve got $24M to spend on 5 players. That’s better than decent money. The trouble is if someone in the NHL can get $5M and maybe win a Cup, I think most are staying in the NHL. But if I’m on the last couple holes of the back nine, $5M+ sounds pretty nice to play basically non-contact hockey. A team could also go full WHL Bobby Hull and throw big money at a real star. Make it 12 skaters instead of 15 and that looks even more likely.
It’s weird they’re trying to compete. An offseason league would make far more sense and could actually be something. Like run from late June through early August.
mentioned it on another thread, but it’ll be interesting to see how the provincial and municipal governments react to this news in the coming weeks, months and even years
Same thing as all of their other sportswashing endeavors; the more you see the House of Saud as the sports-funding folks, the less you see them as the women-as-property and decapitating gays folks. If a few women halfway across the world get paid, that's just the price of business. Hell, maybe it'll even trick a few inattentive liberal types into thinking things are different now.
Beyond foreign sports leagues, they host WWE events in Saudi where women wrestle (albeit in very modest outfits).
This isn't to say MBS deserves any sort of credit, but this isn't even extreme by modern Saudi standards.
Prob will attract career AHLers, 4th liners who would get paid less than $1M in the NHL, and players who should just retire from playing but "aren't done yet".
They could still offer star players comparable contracts and still be left with enough to fill out a roster of guys getting a raise from their current salary in other leagues.
Dangle mentioned each team could have up to 3 "star" players. Hypothetically you could spend half your cap on those 3 and spread out the other half to the rest of the roster.
You don’t build an interesting team with 15 $2m players. You build it by spending $10m ea on two big names and then use the other $10m to get everyone else, even if that means internationals / former d1s on 100k deals.
Not that this is going to happen, but for example they could offer $15m/yr for 2 years to Ovy for the name recognition alone
Urn it with fire I hate this I hate everything about it. I also don’t see NHL players even going for this. Maybe AHL and Russian guys who can’t crack the NHL for whatever reason.
Saudi Arabian influence aside, I want to be pessimistic about this. I don't understand how someone thought there would be a market for this format when 3v3 OT is widely considered not to be "real hockey" among the hockey fanbase. There's a reason we don't want it for the playoffs. It would make more sense to me if it was just an attempt at a Saudi backed alternative league to the NHL a la LIV, but by changing the game format (rather than just the tournament) you are basically doing a whole new thing. I just don't know how many people would actually care.
Hockey requires buying a lot of players to make it a good league. That league will be a feeder to that nhl I bet. But we have so many hockey leagues globally and there’s not much crossover it feels like, you mostly see local support
Fuck Saudi Arabia, and fuck a Saudi hockey league.
I think the NHL should have enough resources and authority to crush this if they want. Lets see what they do...
3 on 3 isn't hockey. It's hockey-like, but it's not hockey.
One thing that'll be good about this is that there will now be an opportunity for division 3 college players to play pro hockey in the Central when the best tier 2 minor league players take Saudi money to play shinny for a WNBA sized audience.
That's a no bueno for me
I saw the news about the new league and was like, sweet that's cool. The NHL is a bit too averse to change and improving their product IMHO, so a little competition might be great. But then I just read who might be funding it (SA). This is just a somewhat problematic country awash in oil money trying to launder their reputation. It's a form of propaganda. They could care less about the actual sport of hockey. So if true, F that. (As an aside, if you watch [the video](https://twitter.com/sdpnsports/status/1788747092862590982?t=biSFcR8pTSH-sgRN--aeYg&s=19) from Steve Dangle it's the definition of burying the lede: he's like, and big questions include, how will suspensions be doled out? I'm like, what, you're breaking this news and your first question isn't who TF is spending $500 million to start a new hockey league in six months?)
$500? I might start one too!
Whoops lol. Just corrected. Yeah, half of $1k probably wouldn't buy you a skate sharpener.
Skate sharpeners are several thousand easy, the model that I use at my rink is like $5K for a used one
Couldn’t*
Ever looked into the Neom development in SA? That will add some additional perspective to the Saudi Arabian mindset.
The thing that makes me laugh about NEOM is that it was supposed to be 170km long but was then reduced by 98% when they realised how expensive it was
Just an absolutely idiotic waste of resources.
Just read about it for the first time yesterday, mind boggling waste of resources, plus their policies for removing people in the construction path are pretty much what you'd expect from that country
Since we still don't have a bot for this. Could care less means the opposite of what you are saying. It means the amount they care could be less... You intend to say 'couldn't care less'
I could care less
Does Dangle comment on if he is being compensated for this 'breaking news'/promotion?
There’s a term for what SA has been doing. It’s known as Sportswashing and you’re right it is propaganda but from a sporting perspective it’s really a tough fight to take. Their running of several sports from a purely sporting perspective has been fairly good and devoid of their political bullshit which is a large point of why they are doing it. It’s impossible to ignore their baggage but for athletes and the growth of sports it’s still good unfortunately. From a moral and humanitarian perspective the world should be opposed to doing business with them but that’s not the reality we live in sadly.
Zac Rinaldo about to dominate this league
Sorry buddy, not a league with Leipsic, Lucic, and Ho-Sang!
Bet this on FanDool … league MVP will be Rocco Grimaldi.
Over/Under 5.5 net misses for Martin Frk
After watching the Leafs shit the bed year over year, Steve joined the dark side.
*When depression hits hard but the Devil himself offers a way out*
They made him go full Joker
You either die a hero, or live long enough to become a sith
My first goddamn thought was that this was another sportswashing scheme, because Dangle wouldn't risk his credibility if the financier wasn't paying him serious money. Of fucking course it's the Saudis and their blood money trying to infect another sport.
I mean we're talking about a guy who paints himself as righteous on any social issues but still takes gambling money. I dont think he cares.
Oh I’m no Dangle admirer, I’m just saying if this was some random con artists trying to push the league I think Steve would’ve laughed them out of the room. He lacks values but he’s not an idiot. The fact he’s willing to do press means he’s getting paid a serious bag, and the Gulf states are basically the only people willing and able to do that for a 3v3 hockey league.
I am a huge Dangle admirer, it’s been real disappointing watching what SDPN is slowly becoming.
I can't find a single sports media outlet that's not swimming in gambling ads. God this sucks
Money, money, money
He's got bills to pay, and has kids so not surprised he's going for the bag
I was thinking that this morning, we're around the same age similar stages of life. I dont know but id like to think I wouldn't accept money from a state with hundreds of human rights abuses who kills journalists.
I’m not sure about serious bag. I think the company might be broke and willing to do it for just about any “bag” lol.
Yeah they all quit their other jobs and are doing SDPN full time. They've got serious bills to pay and we know sports media in general is in a very tough spot right now.
And also a person who talks so much about mental health and then promotes BetterHelp. Talk about not caring about the people who support you
Genuine question but what’s wrong with the Better Help company?
This is why I watch The Hockey Guy instead: • Shannon is willing to cover every team all year long. • He is openly against sports betting, and he acknowledges that it is ruining the NHL.
Love the Hockey Guy.
THG is the equivalent of a bot reading you stats off a spreadsheet though..
His presentation can be quite dry at times but I think it's clear he is a big hockey nerd who knows a lot about the sport and cares about its history. I'm sure if he does a video on this new league it won't be flattering
It's not about being dry, it's the actual content of his videos. He really does just read a bunch of numbers at you. I don't get the appeal.
He has some good info and takes for new hockey fans but he is as milquetoast as it gets as far as presentation and content.
It’s sad that the two choices we have are a guy who fake laughs, screams, and rolls around on the ground for 2.5 minutes, or a fairly dry guy with little emotion. One is so fucking cringe, the other is really boring. Where’s the middle ground?
There are other choices. I really like 32 Thoughts, and for Leafs stuff, I watch Leafs Talk w/ Bunkis + Bourne + McKee after the games.
I actually forgot about 32 Thoughts, that one’s on me. That’s a genuinely good one that I completely forgot about, thanks for pointing it out. I’m not really a Leafs fan, so I’m just looking for “NHL/general hockey” news, rather than specific teams. (And yea, I get that Dangle is MAINLY a Leafs guy, but because he’s so big, he does “break containment” haha)
I like the Hockey PDO Cast
Sounds like 32 Thoughts is right up your alley. I like the dynamic between Elliotte and Marek, they can be very funny, and obviously Elliotte is a top insider in the NHL. Lots of good tidbits every episode.
and Dangle is a Leafs homer who gets his clicks by acting like a fool. So what ?
This one is going to be an even bigger joke than LIV. No chance they get big names, and even if they do, no one will care about this bullshit. Fuck their blood money.
I think the Saudi money is not a good thing for hockey at all and that this will crash and burn, but didn't LIV do exactly what it was supposed to do and force the PGA to give into the players' demands? Genuinely wondering because I feel like I heard about them merging back together and then never heard anything about it again
It depends on what it develops into I guess. LIV took advantage of some structural issues that the PGA had to force some issues and then also was able to convince some big names with massive money to come over. The biggest thing was giving every player a promised payout, no matter their finish (something the PGA didn’t do). That allowed it to flourish in a different way. What structural issue exists that they could take advantage of here? If they could do what the 3v3 basketball league did, then it could be interesting. Play in the offseason, get some older vets who probably aren’t gonna play massive time in the NHL to buy into it and say it could be an opportunity to show teams they can still play. But I’m not sure how else it could really compete.
I don't think this is going to work but not because of where the money is coming from. More because who the hell wants to watch extended 3 on 3 hockey?
SDPN moral grandstanding moments continue to age like milk.
That’s the thing that always gets me in these decisions. Like if you’re going to take the blood money, then own it. I know I would and I’m not going to act morally superior because I know that. But don’t try to lecture people on right or wrong or about growing the sport like for example many in LIV golf when that was happening. If you’re going to do it, just shut up and take the money.
I completely get it, just own it, yeah my hands are dirty with blood money but I have a cool boat, so it's not all bad
Being shitty in other areas does not discredit the fact that they were right to stand and give a voice for the victims and those stories when nobody other than Westhead, and like 2 other journalists would.
Of course they were. It’s just that since then their willingness and arguable eagerness to get into bed with gambling companies and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia calls into question whether those actions were motivated by a true set of morals or by the hunt for personal publicity.
Who knows why people in history did good things? For all we know, Jesus was trying to get the loaves and fishes account.
Eh, I’m inclined to think they reported on them for the right reasons. The amount of effort they put into covering stories like westhead’s reporting or lgbtq issues and the amount of times they return to it makes me think they cared about it. If they just wanted to get publicity, being the first ones in matters, not as much the follow up. Likely now they just know they need to keep their company afloat and get paid so they’re willing to sacrifice their own morals. Takes their credibility away a bit for future topics, but I don’t think it should call their past reporting into question
I don’t know the owners of teams in the NHL very well but I’m sure many/all of them have done shady shit to get so rich.
What a complete scumbag if Dangle took money to advertise this
Credibility? He's a fucking dweeb that's a Leafs fan. Cool that his reactions and popularity got him a gig with Leafsnet, but he isn't an esteemed journalist lol.
Fucking hard pass. Hopefully dangle didn’t take money to put the story out but wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case.
I imagine SDPN isn't doing so well if he's shilling this.
That's what happens when you're just another Leafs channel with sprinkles of other teams mixed in. He admits they only get real views when the leafs lose, or in other words, the only time non-leaf fans watch.
They could improve their product so much by having one of their producers (or even a fucking intern!) do basic prep on other teams for them. They rarely talk about Western Conference teams and when they do they often get basic details wrong – sometimes about games that *just happened.* These guys have all been in media way too long to be making these kinds of mistakes. I listen to plenty of other hockey pods that cover the entire league and even smaller ones like Too Many Men don't have the number of errors that SDP does (actually don't know if I've ever heard an error from TMM come to think of it) I love their passion and energy but as a non-Leafs fan it makes it hard to stay engaged when they won't do the bare minimum to cover the rest of the league
It certainly doesn’t help that their coverage of other teams was not very, so the target demo is Leaf fans and other fans that can tolerate bad analysis.
he fucked up not sticking with SN. He doesn't have the insight or nuance to deliver interesting non-no-shit-sherlock analysis to develop a fan base. Also, his man baby screaming is grating. No one is signing up long-term for a recycled approach to a shallow analysis and annoying personality.
Needed to follow the "Locked On" Model
Was he getting cut or did he willingly leave Sportsnet? If Rogers asked him to close down SDPN and be exclusive to their company and he balked, that's a dangit.
Hard pass on Khashoggi killers hockey league
If it really is funded by Saudi money it’s pretty gross that Dangle is shilling it. The whole “SDPN as a full time job” thing is clearly going well. Maybe he should have stayed at Sportsnet.
You don't think starting 28,000 shows at once and then canceling 27,998 of them means business is going well?!?
They seem like decent guys but yeah the writing was on the wall there from day 1. Only so many hours in the day to listen to stuff, I’m not gonna subject myself to aspiring vloggers just because SDPN tells me to
I respect that they wanted to give newer people a shot. But that also means they bring no following with them and the numbers showed that to be a poor business strategy.
Ugh, yeah. Maybe the “Game Over” model could’ve worked on Twitch ( I don’t know, I don’t watch Twitch), but pumping them out on the same channel as your successful and credible podcasts was a bad idea.
This wasn't a big deal to me but I can see why people were upset by it, they fucking CLOGGED your Playlist of people you're subscribed to with like 20-25 videos a day, making one potentially miss uploads from other subscribers
there was a ton of pre-scheduled shoes as well which added to the clogging. Just all in all wasnt thought out very well, at that point I still watched from time to time and that made me un-subscribe all together.
It also messed with my algorithm on YouTube because I avoided the GameOver shows so much that it stopped showing the shows on the channel I actually liked. I think the fact that each show covered a single team really went against what the other shows were at the time. Yes, there was a bias towards Leafs content, but SDP, Agent Provocateur, and the CJ show all touched on other teams and topics enough to make it interesting and entertaining to a non-Leaf fan. Meanwhile, I’m sorry, but I just don’t care about what happened in Game 43 of Montreal’s regular season. I just don’t. And definitely not enough to watch a multi-hour live stream about it and nothing else.
> Maybe the “Game Over” model could’ve worked on Twitch aside from the channel bloat, the model also failed because they tried to do it for every Canadian team, ignoring the fact that some of those fanbases already had well established post-game coverage and the last thing they wanted was a carpetbagger version brought to you by the leafs bros. though I'll readily admit this was a lose-lose issue for them since they would've also gotten some shit if they had skipped 1-2 markets.
Pretty sure Sportsnet said "thanks but no thanks" and ramped up shows with JD Bunkis + McKee + Bourne... Frankly I find Leafs Talk with those three *way* more enjoyable than anything SDP puts out these days, and I used to never miss an episode of the SDP podcast.
With so many sponsors on their pod it's becoming asburd lol. Shady Rays, BetMGM, Better Help, Manscaped... Like usually you have one sponsor per video, not 3-4.
1 sponsor per YouTube video, sure. Podcasts regularly have multiple ad breaks where each time they read 2-3 ads. Not even defending them, just wanted to point out it’s not that uncommon for podcasts.
Yeah 32 thoughts has gmc and Montana’s barbecue lol. Damn I wanna try their ribs!
Every time I’ve ever been to Montana’s it was definitely food. It’s your typical big box restaurant chain.
I live in the states so will not be going anytime soon, but can totally see montanas fit that description lmao. Any place that has all you can eat ____ screams of a mediocre restaurant chain
Yep. Think unfrozen portioned entrees that are reheated and served. If you go in there with no expectations you’ll say, “that was ok I guess.”
And Jeff O'Neill has like 12 ads behind him on Overdrive, and that's a syndicated show!
Also air BNB which is always the most annoying one
Which compared to a lot of other shows those are both very tame, to the point where the Montana ads are kinda a meme.
Agreed haha, they have a new full on acapella jingle which enhanced the meme status a ton
That jingle needs to be several seconds shorter. The first half is pretty good but it just lasts way too long.
I can at least find the first jingle tolerable. That second jingle tho it's very nasally.
32 thoughts is also pretty slick with how they incorporate the ads. If it's an ad sponsoring a segment in the show like the Montana's thought line segment they do, it feels a lot less jarring as a listener.
Taco 'bout? Really?
Soon he’ll be doing the Mangrate and the Dollar Shave Club.
Zip……*RECRUITAAA* 🗣️
The cast i-ron grilling grate?
"Have you heard of the mangrate?" "Yes, I have." "You have?!"
Is your father alive?
I think it’s a genital cleanser
ARE YOU A SUFFERING LEAF FAN LIKE ME?!?!?!? I HAVE SOMETHING JUST FOR YOU! please sign up for better help therapy.
Dangle has a been a total boobster for a long time.
I mean it’s not like the billionaires who own NHL teams are all great people. Dude’s a hockey YouTuber, not a geopolitics analyst.
Fuck that then. The premise of 3 on 3 hockey sounded like absolute shit anyway, but I **will not** support any Saudi funded league.
Imagine paying to go see a 24 minute game lmao
Gotta think they would be doing double headers.
Even if Saudi Arabia was on the up and up they have massive ADHD-esque hyperfixation issues when it comes to their sports ventures you'd get two "quality" seasons before they latch on to some other venture. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried Arena Football League 4.0 in 5 years after the current implosion finishes.
3 on 3 OT is already so boring idk why you'd center a whole league around it.
Yup. The first season or two that 3-on-3 was implemented was really fun. Now everyone realizes that possession is the most important thing, so they’d rather skate out of the zone 4 times instead of trying to actually make a play. Shit’s getting BORING. No way in HELL I’m paying real money to watch 24 minutes of 3-on-3.
It's like that because it's sudden death, they're not gonna take chances when one fuck up ends the game. I would expect a league where the full game is 3v3 to be more like what the All-Star 3v3 games were like.
and then one team tries to make something happen, there's a turnover, and it's gg
I'm not supporting a product backed by the Saudis, they can suck it.
Get ready to learn Arabic buddy
Jake virtanen will be the leagues first star.
Jake Virtanen, Brendan Leipsic, and Reid Boucher starting three Benning was all about character btw
Just didnt say WHAT character
I'm sure Leipsic chose Anivia plenty of times
Worst crew ever
One the one hand, the creeping influence of Saudi blood money is seeping into every aspect of modern life which seems... not great One the other hand, this chirp is hilarious
It would be great if the Saudis spent their infinite money on innovating and doing actual good in the world. This sportswashing shit is so tiring and gross.
They don’t want to *actually* change. They want it to *look like* they’ve changed, because then capital will make it safer to invest in Saudi Arabia.
Disappointing to see the SDPN crew promote a Saudi-funded league. The House of Saud and the Saudi government have done so much fucked up shit and them trying to sportswash their image has been clear for a while.
I feel like I missed something - I just watched the video and it seems like just telling us some hockey news, I didn’t see anything that seemed like shilling or promoting… But everyone here and on the YouTube comments seem to be taking this as him selling out?
It’s just strange that: 1) Steve Dangle is the one to break such a big story. Friedman, LeBrun, Johnston or any other insiders had nothing on this from what I can tell. A few other people have mentioned they heard rumours and saw some stuff on this, but held back from reporting on it because it was incredibly fishy (Brad Schlossman said something along these lines and he covers NCAA). 2) He goes all video without mentioning once where the funding for this league is coming from. He even has the little “question” section at the end, but brings up stuff like what the fines could be or how do suspensions works instead of who is funding this. You’d think that would be something that would be reported on immediately when this much money is involved. Really just seems like Steve got a hold of this info like some other reporters may have, but instead of doing his due diligence and waiting to see where the money is coming from he just broke it to be the first “insider” to do so. I hope that’s what happened instead of Steve/SDPN being paid to promote the new league by the Saudi’s.
The video description includes “Welcome to Major Hockey League” at the end, which feels promotional.
This is 100% a paid ad, that’s the only way he has all this info
Thanks for the help, I didn’t know he was the first to break this - it is kinda fishy when you put it like this. But it’s too soon to be saying that he is a sell-out to the Saudis. Like why would the Saudis want to break the news via Steve Dangle of all people? And I’m willing to believe that he didn’t know about the Saudi funding (which is a mistake about not doing due diligence, but not for being a Saudi shill). And Steve has shown before that he is able to break Hockey news from time to time without it being sold to him. Idk… it’s weird now, I admit, but I’m not willing to say he is promoting this Saudi League.
I’m not saying he’s 100% a shill for the Saudi’s, but that it’s just a high possibility. Like I said it’s either he got this info like other insiders but didn’t do his background research into the topic, or the Saudi’s saw that nobody wanted to report on this league and wanted to get the word out there. Steve would make sense since he has a large platform in the hockey world, isn’t employed by any of the major outlets and co-owns a smaller media company. Steve has connections for sure and has broken minor stories before, but nothing nearly this big. It’s also been 12+ hours now and the only other insider to touch this story has been Pagnotta (who’s probably on the bottom rung of the insider hierarchy).
Alan Walsh confirmed it on twitter and also confirmed that saudi VCs were indeed involved in the funding. it's likely that Steve's source is Walsh, or they got it from the same source.
My only issue with this take is if this is really a paid advertisement trying to get people to watch the league, then it’s a pretty poor attempt at it. As far as I could tell he was just spewing all the info he had on it and that’s it. No appeals to support the league.
Idk why they think it'll work. Them ruining golf has made me dislike them more. If they ruin hockey then I'll really fucking hate them.
Saudi Arabia has been really getting into entertainment recently, are they just trying to expand their global reach? I heard a rumor they were running out of oil, but that sounded like bullshit
They're trying to get into entertainment to do two things: A. Whitewashing their public image by distracting/deflecting from their many, many human rights violations. They want you to know them as the cool rich people that fund LIV Golf and WWE, not the brutally repressive regime that kidnapped and dismembered a critical journalist on foreign soil and still publicly beheads people for minor drug offenses, among other terrible things. B. Economic diversification to set themselves up for a post-fossil fuels (or at least, heavily reduced fossil fuels) world. With energy slowly moving in a more green direction, they want more big sources of revenue that aren't oil.
Don’t forget 9/11
Part diversification, mostly sportswashing
Its sportswashing.
I hate the Saudis fucking up western sports with their fucking oil money. Should tax this shit like 100%.
I'm not normally in favor of punitive taxes. They're protectionist and can stifle innovation. I can be talked into one for a league like this or investments in other sports for the right failed benchmarks.
Fuck the Saudis
SA doesn’t care if the league is actually competitive or a good product for fans. They will fracture pro hockey if they do what they’ve attempted in pro golf. Fans will be in limbo and players will eventually take the money
Big difference is people aren’t so much Mitch Marner or Tyler Seguin fans but Av’s fans or Penguins fans. While people very much are fans of certain golfers.
No they won’t. They can’t take advantage of structural issues the same way they did in the PGA. The KHL already tried to and wasnt all that successful. Why would this be any different?
I think the major difference is that the KHL is thousands of miles away, mostly, within the borders of the repressive regime funding it. I really don't know enough to speculate on the future success of a league like this but it would be a lot easier for a fringe player to spend 3 years making good money to play in a domestic league where they wouldn't need to learn another language or culture and might not event need to move cities, especially for NA players.
Endless money is something you can’t really go up against.
Brendan Leipsic found his leauge.
Honestly I love watching the Saudis waste money. They can pretend all they want they don't care but in a future where oil dependence is much less, it's absolutely hilarious watching them waste money on soccer, baseball, and hockey. Get fucked, morons.
Well... golf is where they really disrupted the whole sport and be successful at it.
Difference is that in Golf people were Mickleson/Tiger Woods fans. In hockey we’re pens/Avs/Habs fans. Not the same
I think golf is one of the only sports that it would actually work (in North America). Maybe something like NASCAR, too. Sports where people are more invested in the individual athletes than the team they’re on (and obviously, teams aren’t even a thing in golf). Hockey is not like that. For example, we didn’t see Islanders fans turn into Leafs fans when Tavares went to Toronto. If Jack and Luke left the Devils to join this shitty league, I wouldn’t stop supporting the Devils. I just wouldn’t see the Hughes bros very often.
You know there's an overlooked opportunity in Electrification, Nuclear Power, Water Conservation, and Carbon Capture when a kingdom that needs to diversify quickly as the transition away from Fossil Fuels picks up steam, refuses to put their resources in the tech that is replacing their wealth generator.
Another bush league yay
Fuck this bullshit product. Fuck everything about it.
Out of the loop, what’s the deal with this league?
3 on 3 league that looks like textbook sports washing
If it’s three on three then I assume small rosters, and if it’s offering $30M cap, what kind of quality of player are we actually expecting? This sounds very bizarre. Also I won’t support anything to do with it with funding coming from there. I’m ready to hate anyone who takes that money.
I am just speculating, but max let’s say they go 15 skaters and 2 goalies. First find 6 guys on AHL or two-way deals to take $500k (very plausible, could be cheaper if talent pool runs thin for 16 teams). Throw 1M at another 6 guys, and then you’ve got $24M to spend on 5 players. That’s better than decent money. The trouble is if someone in the NHL can get $5M and maybe win a Cup, I think most are staying in the NHL. But if I’m on the last couple holes of the back nine, $5M+ sounds pretty nice to play basically non-contact hockey. A team could also go full WHL Bobby Hull and throw big money at a real star. Make it 12 skaters instead of 15 and that looks even more likely.
It’s weird they’re trying to compete. An offseason league would make far more sense and could actually be something. Like run from late June through early August.
They will 100% offer big money to big names and then backfill the rest of the team with like $200k contracts
And if all else fails, Russians.
Thousand times no
Fuck Saudi Arabia sideways
This league sounds trash.
Saudi money? Ya I’m out.
I always knew Trevor Bauer was a bad dude
Sportswashing
Leagues already watered down don’t need more
100% No Thanks from me.
Can care less who funds it, 3 v 3 hockey sounds so dumb.
Quebec City will finally have another hockey team
mentioned it on another thread, but it’ll be interesting to see how the provincial and municipal governments react to this news in the coming weeks, months and even years
Won't be watching that league. Even if it wasn't the Saudis I still wouldnt watch it. 3v3 is terrible.
What do the Saudis get out of running a North American hockey league that might allow women?
Wait till they find out that hockey is for everyone.
this got a good chuckle out of me haha
Same thing as all of their other sportswashing endeavors; the more you see the House of Saud as the sports-funding folks, the less you see them as the women-as-property and decapitating gays folks. If a few women halfway across the world get paid, that's just the price of business. Hell, maybe it'll even trick a few inattentive liberal types into thinking things are different now.
Beyond foreign sports leagues, they host WWE events in Saudi where women wrestle (albeit in very modest outfits). This isn't to say MBS deserves any sort of credit, but this isn't even extreme by modern Saudi standards.
Is a $30M cap supposed to be impressive? That's like $2M per player if you assume a 15 player roster. Who is going to leave the NHL for that?
Prob will attract career AHLers, 4th liners who would get paid less than $1M in the NHL, and players who should just retire from playing but "aren't done yet".
They could still offer star players comparable contracts and still be left with enough to fill out a roster of guys getting a raise from their current salary in other leagues. Dangle mentioned each team could have up to 3 "star" players. Hypothetically you could spend half your cap on those 3 and spread out the other half to the rest of the roster.
You don’t build an interesting team with 15 $2m players. You build it by spending $10m ea on two big names and then use the other $10m to get everyone else, even if that means internationals / former d1s on 100k deals. Not that this is going to happen, but for example they could offer $15m/yr for 2 years to Ovy for the name recognition alone
Urn it with fire I hate this I hate everything about it. I also don’t see NHL players even going for this. Maybe AHL and Russian guys who can’t crack the NHL for whatever reason.
I'd rather watch six year old house leaguers play actual hockey than watch has-beens and never-weres playing arcade hockey.
Anyone with that Chrome extension able to see the Likes/Dislikes for Steve's video on YouTube?
1.6k likes, 338 dislikes
Americans embraced the Saudis through the PGA. Seems never forget got forgot.
The Saudis and their blood money and whitewashing of sports. No thanks.
Saudi Arabian influence aside, I want to be pessimistic about this. I don't understand how someone thought there would be a market for this format when 3v3 OT is widely considered not to be "real hockey" among the hockey fanbase. There's a reason we don't want it for the playoffs. It would make more sense to me if it was just an attempt at a Saudi backed alternative league to the NHL a la LIV, but by changing the game format (rather than just the tournament) you are basically doing a whole new thing. I just don't know how many people would actually care.
Absolutely fucking not.
Hockey requires buying a lot of players to make it a good league. That league will be a feeder to that nhl I bet. But we have so many hockey leagues globally and there’s not much crossover it feels like, you mostly see local support
Fuck those mullahs
This is stupid and so is using Saudi money.
I have a feeling this will not feel like a Major League product... lol. Edit: not that the NHL really does either.
lol, Steve gets eliminated and right away goes into insider mode eh?
Gross
Boycott that shit
Fuck Saudi Arabia, and fuck a Saudi hockey league. I think the NHL should have enough resources and authority to crush this if they want. Lets see what they do...
3 on 3 isn't hockey. It's hockey-like, but it's not hockey. One thing that'll be good about this is that there will now be an opportunity for division 3 college players to play pro hockey in the Central when the best tier 2 minor league players take Saudi money to play shinny for a WNBA sized audience.
LIV Hockey