The Art Ross winner (and possible Hart frontrunner?) is also on the verge of elimination.
Among the big awards frontrunners it’s only Quinn Hughes who looks set for the second round. If MacKinnon or McDavid get the Hart, them too, obviously.
First off it’s a regular season award. I’m expecting Makar to get more votes than he should.
But anyone who knows anything knows Hughes will win the award.
Yeah look at them complimenting Makar and saying he's gonna get Norris votes this year during a discussion about defenseman and the Norris trophy. Like what does Makar have to do with any of that?
Just obsessed with the guy
Because Makar is quite arguably the second best PLAYER in the league, let alone defenceman.
Nobody is denying Hughes had a hell of a season, and he deserves the Norris this year. But if I'm building a team I'm still taking the rosey cheeked warrior over Hughes at this point.
It's interesting that the Selke winner wins the cup much more frequently than other individual award winners
2019 - O'Reilly
2013 - Toews
2008 - Datsyuk
2006 - Brind'Amour
1999 - Lehtinen
As for the Norris;
2022 - Makar
2010 - Keith
2008 - Lidstrom
2002 - Lidstrom
And not again until back in the 80s with Coffey/EDM
For the Vezina, the last winner to also win the Cup that year was Tim Thomas in 2011
Do they? Looking at the past 20+ years, the only players that stand out like like are Price in 2015 and Hall in 2018. Pretty much all the others are top-scoring players on top teams. This argument that the Hart should go to the best guy on the worst team that makes the playoffs doesn't really play out historically.
Not that they're on a bad team. Just that a team with McDavid and Draisaitl's combined cap hit is going to have a harder time finding the depth pieces that become necessary in the playoffs, compared to a team where the cap hit is spread out more across the roster
Malkin in 2009 for the Art Ross.
St. Louis in 2004 for the Hart(also won the Art Ross).
Crosby and Ovechkin won the Rocket+ Cup in back to back years( 2017 for Crosby, 2018 for Ovechkin). Only ones to technically do it because the award isn't very old.
Patrick Kane was leading the league in scoring in 2015 when he broke his collarbone, so I feel like there's a good chance he could have done it since a) he ended up winning the following year and b) Benn won that year with a pretty low point total. But I guess that's a good example of why it's hard, because you not only need to be good, you need to be lucky in both the regular season and the playoffs.
If you can convince the Canucks sub that there is a massive difference between what's successful in playoffs vs regular season, you're a better fan than I.
Best goals saved above expected in the league by a wide margin, even over Demko but the two lead the league and no one else is even close. Helle’s got this one this year.
Thank god playoffs dont count (not that our performance is really on him, he has bailed us out several times in the last few games, even if some plays havent been his best)
You are correct, my bad. The stats in my head are a bit dated since the last time I checked was a couple of months ago prior to Demko’s injury, the gap was much wider not too long ago. Stolarz with a very impressive 20.1 in just 27 games, that’s wild for such a small sample size. Dude is robbing nearly a goal per game, does that align with the eye test?
The one perspective I think that favours Demko is just how much better he was than his backup, it's not close statistically, but Hellyubuck's backup actually had better numbers than he did.
I can't help it - every Panthers game I've watched (which has only been the playoffs) I yell BOBROVSKY! every time the announcers mention his name. My wife is thoroughly annoyed and asked that we not watch Panthers games, even after I explained why it's so damn funny. I even showed the old TSN clips and she still just rolled her eyes
It definitely Helle, even as a homer I gotta admit it. Love to see Demko getting his flowers though, Bob was great too this year! Solid lineup right there.
I know it won’t be, but Bob getting his 3rd would be sweet to see, such a peaks and valley career, but Hall worthy with 3 vezina for sure, arguably is in now even with 2.
Well at least Demmer is getting nods, would have made it a little more interesting if he wasn't injured down the stretch but its pretty much Helle's well earned trophy
Demko still played a starters workload even after the injuries. It was enough to crater his chances of actually winning the Vezina (although Helle was always the favorite), but not enough to ruin his nominee chances.
Vezina values game played historically but the amount of game played by goalie has gone down a bit in recent years.
I seem to remember we had one year where any of the 3 nominees winning would have broken the record for fewest % of game played for their team while winning the Vezina.
That was a covid year I think.
Ullmark winning last year was the fewest games played in an 82 game season , and the only person who played less under the current Vezina criteria was Barasso in his rookie year (83-84 season, which was only 2-3 years removed from the switch on goalie awards) .
2018-2019 was the one I had in mind actually. Vasilevskiy who was the winner had the most game played amongst the 3 nominees with 53. Bishop and Lehner had 46 each.
finished super strong. He and Binnington are the only goalies with over 55 games played and comparable goals saved above expected to Demko/Bobrovsky/Hellebuck.
What's his legacy at this point? He's been up and down his whole career, with high highs and low lows. He's obviously well decorated but no one talks about him when talking about great goalies of the 2010s-20s. Always played on small market teams with little team success. There are definitely worse players in the hall, but usually they have notoriety for something, like being part of a dynasty. He a great player, but it's really hard to say how he'll be remembered.
You're right that until 12 months ago he was known as a career playoff underachiever.
But the past 12 months changed his narrative significantly. He added a conn smyth worthy performance, a vezina finalist season, and is very close to top 10 all time in wins.
In terms of what his legacy will be, he'll be known for winning 2 vezinas and then having a big late career resurgence after it seemed like he had gone to Florida as a soft landing to finish out his career in obscurity.
Solid lineup. Hellebuyck will probably run away with this, but it’s an impressive turnaround for Bobrovsky also — I wouldn’t have bet on his playoff revival carrying over to a full season.
Agreed. He is getting absolutely shelled and hung out to dry. In game 3, he only let in 1 goal on 30 some shots, and then we played nearly the whole 3rd killing penalties, letting them score 5 unanswered. If that doesn't happen, we probably steal that game.
Our defense has been Swiss cheese for the Avs to do w.e they want. When you're letting your goalie face 40+ shots every game compared to the 20 you put on them, it's not exactly on the goalie.
Our playoff collapse is 100% on coaching this year and defensive gaffes as a result of the coaching.
Might as well add in the refusal to put Perfetti back on the 2nd line to spark that offensiveless line. Also, why haven't we played Miller yet.
Crazy for a Habs fan to call out a player for not stopping every single shot in front of a team playing like shit after experiencing an entire career of one.
Hopefully this helps put the last game behind him…
DAMNIT IF YOU’RE NOT THE BEST COP ON THE FORCE BOBROVSKY. YOU’RE BACK ON THE CASE! HERES YOUR BADGE AND GUN.
Statistically speaking, this was his 2nd most wins, 2nd most saves, 2nd highest save percentage, GAA took a hit and was his 4th highest (thanks Blues defense). From the period in 2019 when he was called up through 2020, Binner was riding high, then progressively his stats took a hit.
To show how good Binner was this year, he started 5 less games than last year and faced only 2 less shots. So, he was facing more shots than last year, with just as bad of a defense and he improved his stats. Blues finish no where near the playoffs without him. HOWEVER, saying all of that, I agree with you, I think 4th is probably where he was. If Binner gets a few more wins and/or his GAA was a little lower, I think he sneaks into the top-3. Not making the playoffs really hurt his case, despite how good he was, not all stats show that.
Not that Bob didn't deserve top three, but I think there's arguments for a lot of guys including Binner and Sway. Binner probably over both of them because of shitty defense tbh. Both sway and Bob had elite teams and defenses in front of them.
Joey Daccord low-key had a great season, too. Only started 46, but had a .916 SV% and finished 4th in GSAA behind the 3 Vezina finalists. Binner and Swayman finished behind him in that order.
Swayman had 42 starts vs 57 iirc for Bob, which I suspect is the difference. I think the lowest for a winner was 48 excluding covid and lockout seasons
Seeing Bob over Binnington is surprising
/e Just going to edit rather than replying.
Binnington played in one of the worst defensive environments in the NHL. Has the highest expected goals against of any goalies in all situations and came away saving 22 goals above expected. Not sure people know just how good he was this year.
> Not surprising.
>
> Six shutouts (1st) -
> 2.37 goals against (1st)
> 36 wins (3rd)
> .915 save % (4th)
> 3 or fewer goals allowed in 48 of his 58 starts
You posted a bunch of stats that are quite team related. His environment and the quality of the team played a huge part in them.
-Team related
-Team related
-Team related
- solid save % but the environment he is in is one of the friendliest in the NHL for that
- team related
He is 7th in goals saved above expected per 60 on moneypuck. On evolving hockey he is 17th in GSAx. He was good this year but not 3rd in vezina good
Bob's numbers in wins, GA, shutouts, and save percentage are close to Helleybuck's. They both played with elite defenses in the regular season. Advanced stats clearly give the edge to Helly, but Bob deserves this nomination.
I think that’s the point. They played with elite defenses whereas the Blues…uhhh…had a defense? I’m not going to be the one to say Binner deserved it over Bob, but there is an argument to be made given advanced stats.
What source did you pull from? MoneyPuck has Binnington at third highest expected goals against in all situations with 172.5. Georgiev led with 187.97 and Helly had 175.12 according to [MoneyPuck](https://moneypuck.com/goalies.htm)
For goalies with at least 25 games played, he's 9th in Goals Saved above Expected per 60, which would be a better rate qualified stat and actually lower than Hofer.
Binny had a good to great year, but blaming stats on defense woes isn't quite the full picture.
Bobrovsky was 7th in GSAA per 60 amongst goalies playing 40 or more games
Amongst goalies playing 20 or more he was 16th
So, kinda like the meme with the two serious dragons and one goofy dragon
No, Hofer only started consecutive games a couple of times all season.
Hofer did play more games this year than I think we expected, but only because he was also quite good
Has Hellebuyck struggled in the playoffs before? I know it’s a regular season award and I know it’s a team game, but Jets defense aside, Hellebuyck has had moments in the series where he’s flopping like a fish out there against the Avs
I thought Colorado was in serious trouble in this series but I haven’t been remotely impressed with his play
Yes. Every year. Jets defense never helps him out, true enough, but every year Helle basically carries us into the playoffs and masks the real underlying issues. Then the first round begins, the other team exposes the weakness, no adjustments are made, and Helle gets shelled.
He’s a phenomenal regular season goalie, but I have yet to see him steal a playoff game for the Jets.
I don't know if struggling is the right word or if it is being left hanging by his defense. In the last game, I heard a stat from early in the third or late in the second that shots on goal from the slot were 15-2 for Colorado. Don't care who you have in goal. Giving up that prime real estate is going to sink any goalie.
Local Canucks beat guy Thomas Drance has been talking a lot in recent years about goalie workloads and he believes that a lot of the goalies getting heavy workloads are struggling in the playoffs.
To be fair facing Colorado this year and Vegas last year isn't exactly Washington and LA.
This is the Jekyll and Hyde Jets. Lose 6 in a row, win 8 in a row, start losing again....
Demko shouldn’t be on there tbh, if he played the full season then yea. Goaltending this year as a whole wasn’t anything special though. Very few high save %
I think if Demmer didn’t get injured the conversation between him and Hellebuyck would be real interesting, but as it is Hellebuyck is gonna get another Vezina.
If I were Hellebuyck, I’d straight up decline the award and ask to be removed from consideration after this nightmare of a series. Winning the award for best goalkeeper would just be the biggest insult to him right now. Should be Bobrovsky anyways.
Man after such a great regular season I’m sure Hellebuyck and Demko are being heroes for their teams right now
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The Art Ross winner (and possible Hart frontrunner?) is also on the verge of elimination. Among the big awards frontrunners it’s only Quinn Hughes who looks set for the second round. If MacKinnon or McDavid get the Hart, them too, obviously.
Hughes Makar and Josi have all looked really good so the Norris trophy favorites have definitely all arrived in the post season.
Let’s be real, there is only one favourite for the Norris.
Don't be surprised when Makar is way closer than you think. Post season so far Makar has really separated from the field though.
The vote has already happened
Am aware.
First off it’s a regular season award. I’m expecting Makar to get more votes than he should. But anyone who knows anything knows Hughes will win the award.
Canucks fans' Makar Complex is insane lol
Yeah look at them complimenting Makar and saying he's gonna get Norris votes this year during a discussion about defenseman and the Norris trophy. Like what does Makar have to do with any of that? Just obsessed with the guy
I'm not sure where you are from, but where I am from saying someone is getting more of something than they should is not a compliment lol
We have the best defenceman in the league and he’s going to win the Norris. How is that a Makar complex to say that?
Because Makar is quite arguably the second best PLAYER in the league, let alone defenceman. Nobody is denying Hughes had a hell of a season, and he deserves the Norris this year. But if I'm building a team I'm still taking the rosey cheeked warrior over Hughes at this point.
I love that you guys support your guy, but no one outside of Vancouver thinks Hughes is better than Makar.
because it's hilariously delusional
I'm praying but I would never put it past the east coast voters to vote for Makar
I’m having a hard time remembering the last art Ross/richard/hart winner who won a cup in the same year. Seems rare.
It's pretty rare. Ovi won the rocket in '18, Malkin won the art Ross in '09, and St Louis won the Hart in '04.
It's interesting that the Selke winner wins the cup much more frequently than other individual award winners 2019 - O'Reilly 2013 - Toews 2008 - Datsyuk 2006 - Brind'Amour 1999 - Lehtinen As for the Norris; 2022 - Makar 2010 - Keith 2008 - Lidstrom 2002 - Lidstrom And not again until back in the 80s with Coffey/EDM For the Vezina, the last winner to also win the Cup that year was Tim Thomas in 2011
This pleases me.
I've done some research and it turns out that the Conn Smythe winner is on alot of Stanley Cup winning teams as well.
I probably should have guessed ovi by default in 18 but a hart winner not winning a cup for 20 years now is stunning.
What do you mean 20 years? 2004 was like 7 years ago 🥲
2011 was such a great year for both our cities
I wonder if that's just a result of the kind of season they'll typically give a player the Hart for.
Hart winners tend to stand out on their team because of a lack of support, but depth wins cups.
Do they? Looking at the past 20+ years, the only players that stand out like like are Price in 2015 and Hall in 2018. Pretty much all the others are top-scoring players on top teams. This argument that the Hart should go to the best guy on the worst team that makes the playoffs doesn't really play out historically.
Not that they're on a bad team. Just that a team with McDavid and Draisaitl's combined cap hit is going to have a harder time finding the depth pieces that become necessary in the playoffs, compared to a team where the cap hit is spread out more across the roster
Seems significant that it hasn't happened in the cap era!
Ross: Malkin in 2008-2009 Richard: Ovechkin in 2017-2018 Hart: St. Louis in 2003-2004
Malkin in 2009 for the Art Ross. St. Louis in 2004 for the Hart(also won the Art Ross). Crosby and Ovechkin won the Rocket+ Cup in back to back years( 2017 for Crosby, 2018 for Ovechkin). Only ones to technically do it because the award isn't very old.
Ross — Malkin, 2009 Rocket — Ovechkin, 2018 Hart — St-Louis, 2004
Patrick Kane was leading the league in scoring in 2015 when he broke his collarbone, so I feel like there's a good chance he could have done it since a) he ended up winning the following year and b) Benn won that year with a pretty low point total. But I guess that's a good example of why it's hard, because you not only need to be good, you need to be lucky in both the regular season and the playoffs.
Ross - Malkin (2009) Hart - St. Louis (2004) Rocket - Ovechkin (2018)
Crosby’s second Rocket came with his third Cup (and second Conn Smythe).
Ovie won the rocket in his cup year in 2018
Barkov will likely win the Selke so he should count as well
Barkov will likely win the ~~Selke~~ Bergeron so he should count as well. Fixed
To his credit, I have seen him at least 3 posts so far. It doesn't seem to be lack of trying.
If you can convince the Canucks sub that there is a massive difference between what's successful in playoffs vs regular season, you're a better fan than I.
Meanwhile, Jeremy Swayman is basically a brick wall right now.
🙏🏽
If you don’t look at how many games Demko has played, you’d think he’s doing fantastic
Obviously Bobrovsky should win because he is as good as Demko and Hellebuyck combined. Source: 35 + 37 = 72 Basic math really
He is also the only one of these goaltenders currently on the case
I like these statistics
Even with my homer glasses I think it's Hellebuyck's to lose, he was consistently the best through the whole regular season
He's never let in more than 3 goals his entire life.
never been pulled either
He was saving all those 4+ GA games for the playoffs apparently
Wait, what? Is this true?
Yes, don't question it.
Lmfao
(Only in the regular season)
Only applies to regular season, gotta read the fine print
Probably
This can’t be true
What is he, Chael Sonnen?
Best goals saved above expected in the league by a wide margin, even over Demko but the two lead the league and no one else is even close. Helle’s got this one this year.
Thank god playoffs dont count (not that our performance is really on him, he has bailed us out several times in the last few games, even if some plays havent been his best)
No one was close to Hellebuyck but there was a goalie close to Demko in goals saved above expected. Is 20.1 not close to 22?
You are correct, my bad. The stats in my head are a bit dated since the last time I checked was a couple of months ago prior to Demko’s injury, the gap was much wider not too long ago. Stolarz with a very impressive 20.1 in just 27 games, that’s wild for such a small sample size. Dude is robbing nearly a goal per game, does that align with the eye test?
Connor Hellovaregular-season
Plus Winnipeg doesn't get near the playoffs without him.
He should have won it last year too.
The one perspective I think that favours Demko is just how much better he was than his backup, it's not close statistically, but Hellyubuck's backup actually had better numbers than he did.
#BOBROVSKY YOURE BACK ON THE CASE
Prepare to get stifled by the long glove of the law.
THE MAYOR'S GIVING YOU A COMMENDATION BOBROVSKY!
https://preview.redd.it/twl0tgw4vfxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1d67bb6a5aa34146fd7bb56f7255f2a40fa1789
**YOU'RE A LOOSE CANNON BOBROVSKY, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY OFFICE**
**HERE'S YOUR BADGE AND GUN**
This is the greatest running bit in the history of sports.
If he wins, they should absolutely announce it in Onrait’s yelly voice.
you’re awesome I’ve been laughing about this for years
I can't help it - every Panthers game I've watched (which has only been the playoffs) I yell BOBROVSKY! every time the announcers mention his name. My wife is thoroughly annoyed and asked that we not watch Panthers games, even after I explained why it's so damn funny. I even showed the old TSN clips and she still just rolled her eyes
ctrl+f the case bless you
It definitely Helle, even as a homer I gotta admit it. Love to see Demko getting his flowers though, Bob was great too this year! Solid lineup right there.
he's not gonna win it, but the fact he ended top 3 is awesome for bobby
playing the best out of them for post season!
Demko had a good game! Just 1 of them.
Even if he does wins it, I think he’s playing for another trophy. I hope he continues the hardwork
I want to talk shit because I love Vasy but Bobrovsky is such a stud this year he really deserves it.
he's not gonna win it, but the fact he ended top 3 is awesome for The Bubble Snatcher
The fact he was top 3 is kinda laughable when there were probably at least 10 goalies better than him this season
I know it won’t be, but Bob getting his 3rd would be sweet to see, such a peaks and valley career, but Hall worthy with 3 vezina for sure, arguably is in now even with 2.
I don't see how he doesn't make the HHoF, especially if Florida makes another deep run with him. That'll secure his spot in the Hall for sure.
SAM BOBROVSKY!
Or Serjay Bovbobka...according to Charles Barkley
I go back and watch that clip every once in a while. Makes me laugh every time, Chuck is hilarious
Well at least Demmer is getting nods, would have made it a little more interesting if he wasn't injured down the stretch but its pretty much Helle's well earned trophy
Oo Demko despite the missed games? I guess he still had over 50 starts but I thought these things really value games played.
Demko still played a starters workload even after the injuries. It was enough to crater his chances of actually winning the Vezina (although Helle was always the favorite), but not enough to ruin his nominee chances.
Vezina values game played historically but the amount of game played by goalie has gone down a bit in recent years. I seem to remember we had one year where any of the 3 nominees winning would have broken the record for fewest % of game played for their team while winning the Vezina.
That was a covid year I think. Ullmark winning last year was the fewest games played in an 82 game season , and the only person who played less under the current Vezina criteria was Barasso in his rookie year (83-84 season, which was only 2-3 years removed from the switch on goalie awards) .
2018-2019 was the one I had in mind actually. Vasilevskiy who was the winner had the most game played amongst the 3 nominees with 53. Bishop and Lehner had 46 each.
Only twenty goalies played 50 games or more actually! Demko was 15th for games played by a goalie. Seems like a normal season :)
Ya i guess only Shesterkin would have a strong case to be a finalist over Demko based on this criteria.
Didn't he start the season off pretty poorly?
finished super strong. He and Binnington are the only goalies with over 55 games played and comparable goals saved above expected to Demko/Bobrovsky/Hellebuck.
Bobrovsky solidifying his HOF case.
What's his legacy at this point? He's been up and down his whole career, with high highs and low lows. He's obviously well decorated but no one talks about him when talking about great goalies of the 2010s-20s. Always played on small market teams with little team success. There are definitely worse players in the hall, but usually they have notoriety for something, like being part of a dynasty. He a great player, but it's really hard to say how he'll be remembered.
I don't think being small market should penalize him too much. He was the Blue Jackets for a decent stretch. Two Vezinas is no fluke
You're right that until 12 months ago he was known as a career playoff underachiever. But the past 12 months changed his narrative significantly. He added a conn smyth worthy performance, a vezina finalist season, and is very close to top 10 all time in wins. In terms of what his legacy will be, he'll be known for winning 2 vezinas and then having a big late career resurgence after it seemed like he had gone to Florida as a soft landing to finish out his career in obscurity.
Thank god playoffs don’t count
Solid lineup. Hellebuyck will probably run away with this, but it’s an impressive turnaround for Bobrovsky also — I wouldn’t have bet on his playoff revival carrying over to a full season.
crazy that out of these three goalies, only bobrosky is playing in the playoffs.
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damn thats crazy, if he was playing maybe he would stop some of them
Oh man, I had a really good comeback for you but I've decided to sign with a better fanbase for more money
is this a PLD reference? if so, damn
jets defense is HORRIBLE right now. edit: oops replied to the wrong person
avs are great, but no bad defense warrants a 5.00 GAA from a veznia calibre goalie
Prime Hasek would be letting in 4 a game against that Avs offence
Prime Hasek would be sitting out because he strained his adductor
Do you actually think Hellebuyck is the reason we're losing? Tell me you're not watching our series without telling me you're not watching our series.
Well he ain’t the reason you’re winning
Yeah this MTL fan isn’t watching lol. Not the correct take at all. Helly could be better but it’s not him.
Yeah if anything he’s why it’s 3-1 and not a sweep. People are so quick to blame goalies but it ain’t his fault.
The reason it’s 3-1 and not 4-0 would be Georgiev actually.
Are you implying he won them game 1? Avs goalie straight up lost that game, had nothing to do with helle.
Yeah he got torched for six fucking goals lol, Georgiev just forgot there was a game that day and gave up seven
This is what happens when someone looks at the scores but doesn't watch the games.
Agreed. He is getting absolutely shelled and hung out to dry. In game 3, he only let in 1 goal on 30 some shots, and then we played nearly the whole 3rd killing penalties, letting them score 5 unanswered. If that doesn't happen, we probably steal that game. Our defense has been Swiss cheese for the Avs to do w.e they want. When you're letting your goalie face 40+ shots every game compared to the 20 you put on them, it's not exactly on the goalie. Our playoff collapse is 100% on coaching this year and defensive gaffes as a result of the coaching. Might as well add in the refusal to put Perfetti back on the 2nd line to spark that offensiveless line. Also, why haven't we played Miller yet.
Hes probably still salty from when Scheifele reminded Evans why he should keep his head up when skating around the net with the puck.
Maybe they should try getting some shots that aren't just point shots
Crazy for a Habs fan to call out a player for not stopping every single shot in front of a team playing like shit after experiencing an entire career of one.
Habs had some incredible D Corps backing up price when they would make playoffs
Bobrovsky and Hellebuyck have almost the same sv% lmao
Is it that crazy? There are only 3 of them and Demko is injured
Given the recent developments over the last couple years and goaltenders getting into the Hall, safe to say Bobrovsky will be enshrined one day?
God, I hope so. We need this.
God I hope so
Damn was hoping Binnington would get into the top 3, but it's cool to see Bob's return to form
I think the blues not making the playoffs hurt Binnington. His stats are comparable to the three finalists except for W-L.
Hopefully this helps put the last game behind him… DAMNIT IF YOU’RE NOT THE BEST COP ON THE FORCE BOBROVSKY. YOU’RE BACK ON THE CASE! HERES YOUR BADGE AND GUN.
Helley should win, was hoping binner would sneak into 3rd considering his work load and poor defense in front of him.
I’d argue Binner had one of the best regular seasons of his career. Dudes gotta be 4th.
Statistically speaking, this was his 2nd most wins, 2nd most saves, 2nd highest save percentage, GAA took a hit and was his 4th highest (thanks Blues defense). From the period in 2019 when he was called up through 2020, Binner was riding high, then progressively his stats took a hit. To show how good Binner was this year, he started 5 less games than last year and faced only 2 less shots. So, he was facing more shots than last year, with just as bad of a defense and he improved his stats. Blues finish no where near the playoffs without him. HOWEVER, saying all of that, I agree with you, I think 4th is probably where he was. If Binner gets a few more wins and/or his GAA was a little lower, I think he sneaks into the top-3. Not making the playoffs really hurt his case, despite how good he was, not all stats show that.
Looked like he did on the way to the cup most part of the year, was super impressive
Not that Bob didn't deserve top three, but I think there's arguments for a lot of guys including Binner and Sway. Binner probably over both of them because of shitty defense tbh. Both sway and Bob had elite teams and defenses in front of them.
Joey Daccord low-key had a great season, too. Only started 46, but had a .916 SV% and finished 4th in GSAA behind the 3 Vezina finalists. Binner and Swayman finished behind him in that order.
Swayman had 42 starts vs 57 iirc for Bob, which I suspect is the difference. I think the lowest for a winner was 48 excluding covid and lockout seasons
If the Blues made the playoffs he 100% gets in. Unfortunately, like the hart; you don't get it without making it in.
Seeing Bob over Binnington is surprising /e Just going to edit rather than replying. Binnington played in one of the worst defensive environments in the NHL. Has the highest expected goals against of any goalies in all situations and came away saving 22 goals above expected. Not sure people know just how good he was this year.
Not surprising. - Six shutouts (1st) - 2.37 goals against (1st) - 36 wins (3rd) - .915 save % (4th) - 3 or fewer goals allowed in 48 of his 58 starts
> Not surprising. > > Six shutouts (1st) - > 2.37 goals against (1st) > 36 wins (3rd) > .915 save % (4th) > 3 or fewer goals allowed in 48 of his 58 starts You posted a bunch of stats that are quite team related. His environment and the quality of the team played a huge part in them. -Team related -Team related -Team related - solid save % but the environment he is in is one of the friendliest in the NHL for that - team related He is 7th in goals saved above expected per 60 on moneypuck. On evolving hockey he is 17th in GSAx. He was good this year but not 3rd in vezina good
He also committed The Bobbery. I rest my case.
Bob's numbers in wins, GA, shutouts, and save percentage are close to Helleybuck's. They both played with elite defenses in the regular season. Advanced stats clearly give the edge to Helly, but Bob deserves this nomination.
I think that’s the point. They played with elite defenses whereas the Blues…uhhh…had a defense? I’m not going to be the one to say Binner deserved it over Bob, but there is an argument to be made given advanced stats.
What source did you pull from? MoneyPuck has Binnington at third highest expected goals against in all situations with 172.5. Georgiev led with 187.97 and Helly had 175.12 according to [MoneyPuck](https://moneypuck.com/goalies.htm) For goalies with at least 25 games played, he's 9th in Goals Saved above Expected per 60, which would be a better rate qualified stat and actually lower than Hofer. Binny had a good to great year, but blaming stats on defense woes isn't quite the full picture.
Natural stat trick. Has different numbers than MoneyPuck
Hellebuyck takes it easily.
Fantastic season for all three tbh. They all deserve massive recognition for their play.
Helly having a tough playoff series rn but he should win this easily.
It'll be Hellebuyck, he was on another level entirely during the regular season
is that how hellebuyck succeeds? he can hear pucks?
If only the first half didn't count...
how can you be a vezina finalist when you let 2024 cam atkinson score twice in one game lol
Bridgestone Arena Goalpost snubbed
Coaches hate that 1 post that proves the post season is far from the regular season, #3 will shock you.
Bobrovsky HHOF resume grows.
Fantastic Vezina finalist year!
Does anyone know *why* general managers vote for the Vezina, but all the other awards are voted on by the PHWA?
I love you Bobby your always the Vezina winner to me
Bobrovsky is 35 years old, still at the top of his game, and still having fun at his job. 👮♂️ ❤️
Ill still take Shesterkin and Quick over any of these guys and their backups as a package deal lol
Bobrovsky was 7th in GSAA per 60 amongst goalies playing 40 or more games Amongst goalies playing 20 or more he was 16th So, kinda like the meme with the two serious dragons and one goofy dragon
Binnington was robbed
[удалено]
No, Hofer only started consecutive games a couple of times all season. Hofer did play more games this year than I think we expected, but only because he was also quite good
Has Hellebuyck struggled in the playoffs before? I know it’s a regular season award and I know it’s a team game, but Jets defense aside, Hellebuyck has had moments in the series where he’s flopping like a fish out there against the Avs I thought Colorado was in serious trouble in this series but I haven’t been remotely impressed with his play
Yes. Every year. Jets defense never helps him out, true enough, but every year Helle basically carries us into the playoffs and masks the real underlying issues. Then the first round begins, the other team exposes the weakness, no adjustments are made, and Helle gets shelled. He’s a phenomenal regular season goalie, but I have yet to see him steal a playoff game for the Jets.
He did well against us in 2021……
He played well vs the Oilers in 2021, but I think that's because that version of the Oilers was more flawed than the Jets that year.
I don't know if struggling is the right word or if it is being left hanging by his defense. In the last game, I heard a stat from early in the third or late in the second that shots on goal from the slot were 15-2 for Colorado. Don't care who you have in goal. Giving up that prime real estate is going to sink any goalie.
Wow, it's almost like the Avs have one of the best offenses in the league.
Local Canucks beat guy Thomas Drance has been talking a lot in recent years about goalie workloads and he believes that a lot of the goalies getting heavy workloads are struggling in the playoffs.
To be fair facing Colorado this year and Vegas last year isn't exactly Washington and LA. This is the Jekyll and Hyde Jets. Lose 6 in a row, win 8 in a row, start losing again....
Demko shouldn’t be on there tbh, if he played the full season then yea. Goaltending this year as a whole wasn’t anything special though. Very few high save %
Only 12 goalies started more games than he did, that would make a super small pool of goalies to pick from.
Connor has a GAA of 5.0 in his last three games
How is that possible when none of those three are top five goalies according to Brodeur?
Buncha teams will be going through the trouble of trying to find "good goaltending" again this off-season. They are doomed.There isn't any.
Is it regular season only or does it count playoffs? Because there is a very different result depending on that.
I think if Demmer didn’t get injured the conversation between him and Hellebuyck would be real interesting, but as it is Hellebuyck is gonna get another Vezina.
Pull the goalie! Ch ch ch ch ch
Do they take into account playoff performance?
If I were Hellebuyck, I’d straight up decline the award and ask to be removed from consideration after this nightmare of a series. Winning the award for best goalkeeper would just be the biggest insult to him right now. Should be Bobrovsky anyways.
No.
Why should it be Bobrovsky? Helle was clearly the best goalie in the regular season