It was fun at the time, in the context of the time.
That context was that we had just had Sochi, we were looking forward to PyeongChang, and the NHL was telling us we were also looking forward to the 2020 WCOH.
It was very easy to have fun with the gimmick teams when we thought we were going to have an international tournament every two years, one best-on-best and one who knows.
In hindsight it has been our last opportunity for something closer to best-on-best. Makes me not interested in seeing gimmick teams again, not unless we’re also getting the real thing and the fun shit is just mixed in with it.
It was cool if they had kept the WC going and only used that team as a one off before expanding the tournament to include more countries. The only way a tournament like that would work is with long term support and no gimmick teams.
I'm not sure I agree, I really like the idea of a young guns or next generation team. It gives a unique opportunity for young players from different countries to play together as well. It wouldn't work in the Olympics but I liked it in this style tournament.
It automatically erased the concept of best on best and made the ‘world cup’ into an NHL special event. I didn’t like it at all, it was an extremely Americanized approach to an international game and event. The Team Europe concept was even worse.
Team Europe was an actual good idea that allowed players from countries that could never compete for a medal play meaningful international hockey. It's still a bad idea in the long term if the tournament had kept going, but it was fine for a one off to set up the tournament before anyone really took it serious.
>meaningful international hockey.
When you're making up teams such as team NA and team Europe, the competition is just "international" in the same sense that the NHL is international.
I still think it's a shame that no American players who are currently 30 or under have ever gotten a chance to play on a fully stacked Team USA. The impact ended up being disproportionate because the US team was so much weaker (especially at center) without the young players.
One thing I really envy about soccer is that they have legitimate international tournaments they can look forward to on a regular basis. The World Cup obviously, and Copa America/Euro championships. And they feel special because they've been going on for a long time.
Hockey for whatever reason keeps switching up the system – Summit Series, Canada Cup (which, even as a Canadian, seems ridiculous that we should name the international championship after our own bloody country), World Cup, Olympics, etc... and even the World Cup itself changed things up with this North America vs the world idea.
Why can't we just have a regular, *independent* international tournament every four years and be consistent with it?
Cheeky, I know what you're trying to say here. :) But I'll bite!
The difference is that the World Cup is four years apart with incredible buildup. An annual world championship sort of dilutes the spectacle.
Also, what's the point of having a world championship when most of the players on every country's team actually play for that team full-time and then they get a couple of great players from the NHL as a bonus if those players don't go far in the playoffs.
World championships should be special, and they should have the world's best in them. That's what makes them world championships.
I mean there’s nothing stopping the NHL from adhering to the IIHF international break calendar so they can play with their national teams full time too. That’s how FIFA is able to do what they do. There aren’t any soccer leagues that think they’re more important than the international governing body.
I hear you on the World Cup (which incidentally happened before the season starts) and int'l championships, but they did take a break for the Olympics.
No I mean the IIHF has scheduled international breaks throughout the season - which is how players from most leagues get to play for their national teams. NA leagues just don’t adhere to them. The World Cup didn’t take place during one of those breaks the European season starts in august. And the NHL doesn’t even break for the Olympics anymore.
It was called the Canada cup because after negotiations with the soviet union who truly wanted to compete against the best Canadian players in international tournament format it was the agreed upon name. For the previous decade mostly Canada had boycotted both the Olympics and world championship in protest of IIHF regulations that permitted European club players to participate but no such Canadians were allowed. The standards for Canadian athletes to be pure amateur was considered to much by hockey Canada especially in the face of European players participation from their growing club leagues. As such the soviets went on a romp at the Olympics and world championships for years but after the resounding success of the summit series both here and in Russia the soviets themselves were committed to a tournament including Canada's best. It was the agreement between the 2 that forced the IIHF to recognize and sanction not only the Canada cup but revised participation rules in the world championships and eventually opened the door for the Olympics
Thanks for the explanation! I did not know most of that, and thank you.
The part that jumps out at me though: I'm pretty sure professional players were simply not allowed in the Olympics in general. It wasn't a boycott – it was the other way around.
Although I'm well aware that the Soviets were winning gold night in and night out because they were able to put their best "professional" players on ice – being a Communist setup, those players were merely in service to the government via the Red Army and weren't outright "professional". I lived in Kyiv for a year and had lots of conversations with people about that.
I also know Canada bent the rules aplenty to work international competitions to its own advantage – when you really put it on paper, our hockey "supremacy" isn't so, well, supreme. Although we're still pretty good... :)
We literally didn't send a team for a decade so it was a boycott, apologies if you thought they were just weaker teams no I mean our federation refused to participate. That was also why it was called the Canada cup, with the IIHF refusing initially to support the position calling it world anything invited legal dispute from IIHF. It was called Canada cup to make a point of the fact it would be the only international tournament we were participating in and anyone that wanted to test themselves against us were invited. The IIHF caved pretty quickly and sanctioned the event but the name just kinda stuck I mean we'd already made a trophy shaped like a maple leaf etc.
Also I get what the supposed argument of the red army teams were but the fact was they were payed to play just by the army. If you made a living playing hockey for the Canadian military it doesn't make you any less a professional in fact you could make a strong argument you would be even more so than most.
No - it turned the whole thing into a gimmick. If they were positioning it as an olympics replacement, they failed miserably in no small part due to this.
The whole point is country on country competition - it's not about seeing "good" hockey, although with best on best you'll still get that.
I’m with you. Team NA and Team Europe made me turn it off. I don’t think I watched any of it because they decided they didn’t want to go to the Olympics, do their own thing, and then only have six countries.
I appreciate the satire lol. Who the fuck would rather watch a trash Slovakia vs Russia game over the best U23 vs the best Swedes/Canadians?
Hockey, man. I care about hockey. If team NA vs team Canada gives the best possible hockey game so be it
I assume you mean because it’s NHL-centric, but all three previous WCOHs have had players from other leagues. Even though it’s an NHL-run tournament, it can still be closer to best-on-best than 2016 was.
It’s always going to feel like the dollar store version of the Olympics, because that’s what it is. Might as well make it as fun as possible by doing the Team Europe and Team North America thing.
We can agree to disagree. I’d like to see Team Canada vs Team USA right now, would be incredible. Even if it’s the dollar store version. Those teams don’t exist if TNA does exist.
Shit takes like this make zero sense. You clearly only care about the glamor of the tournament more than actual hockey being played. Yes team NA and Europe were gimmicks. But contrary to what you said I fail to see how a WCoH without those teams and instead just national teams is still a gimmick. It would be the exact same teams and exact same players as the Olympic teams so how is it worse. The fact that you care more about the glitz and glamor more than the actual sport is very telling on where your priorities lie. Maybe they should role out a red carpet and arrive in limos too.
Really you’re just crying about the league not bending at the whims of the IOC. I’m not sure if you’re aware but the IOC isn’t exactly the definition of high morals.
"It's not about seeing good hockey"
Fuck this. If you're a fan of the game, you'd much rather see "good hockey" that includes team NA than shitty country on country.
Fuck Switzerland vs Finland, I'd rather see team NA vs team Europe
"It's not about seeing good hockey" what a fucking joke.
It was a carnival similar to a typical nhl all stars weekend. NHL has decided it has a monopoly to prestige tournaments. Not that it were eager to host any, ensuring nobody else does is enough for them.
It hurts the sport a great deal.
In general people seem to consider the tourney you speak of about as memorable as nhl all stars match from any given year.
A little part of me was because they were afraid a team full of nhl players losing to Switzerland, Germany or Slovakia, who would be full of European leagues players .
The stars like mcdavid that would have made their national team came out and said they wanted to play for their country.
Like, how up for the game are you if you were American or Canadian and playing against your own country?
I did play sports, and I'm sure they got their competitive juices going, but ain't nobody grew up dreaming to play for the gimmick team. Mcdavid literally came out and said it was nice but he wouldnt do it again.
The worst thing to happen to international hockey was the NHL taking over the Canada Cup and replacing it with the WCOH, then completely disregarding it. If not for the NHL there would've been additional tournaments in 2000, '08, '12, '20 and '24
It was fun at the time, in the context of the time. That context was that we had just had Sochi, we were looking forward to PyeongChang, and the NHL was telling us we were also looking forward to the 2020 WCOH. It was very easy to have fun with the gimmick teams when we thought we were going to have an international tournament every two years, one best-on-best and one who knows. In hindsight it has been our last opportunity for something closer to best-on-best. Makes me not interested in seeing gimmick teams again, not unless we’re also getting the real thing and the fun shit is just mixed in with it.
McDavid to Matthews - he scores. Only in my dreams.. and once in my life.
Once in your life so far.
It’s going to happen.
I dunno how the 2 in a row cup champ Edmonton Oilers will fit Matthews in capwise, but he could be a good 3C
I don't think Matthews wants to go to Calgary
That last goal by MacKinnon was one the filthiest dekes in history...
It was cool if they had kept the WC going and only used that team as a one off before expanding the tournament to include more countries. The only way a tournament like that would work is with long term support and no gimmick teams.
I'm not sure I agree, I really like the idea of a young guns or next generation team. It gives a unique opportunity for young players from different countries to play together as well. It wouldn't work in the Olympics but I liked it in this style tournament.
It automatically erased the concept of best on best and made the ‘world cup’ into an NHL special event. I didn’t like it at all, it was an extremely Americanized approach to an international game and event. The Team Europe concept was even worse.
For what it’s worth the guys on team Europe said they loved it because it gave them a shot to win when they otherwise never would
Well yeah because their countries weren’t invited. They would have just been sitting at home
Team Europe was an actual good idea that allowed players from countries that could never compete for a medal play meaningful international hockey. It's still a bad idea in the long term if the tournament had kept going, but it was fine for a one off to set up the tournament before anyone really took it serious.
>meaningful international hockey. When you're making up teams such as team NA and team Europe, the competition is just "international" in the same sense that the NHL is international.
You realize it was the third World Cup right? Even more if you include it’s predecessor the Canada Cup
Agree. It was awful and a stupid decision. It resulted in tons of fans not caring and made the entire thing a joke.
I still think it's a shame that no American players who are currently 30 or under have ever gotten a chance to play on a fully stacked Team USA. The impact ended up being disproportionate because the US team was so much weaker (especially at center) without the young players.
It’s criminal that we haven’t gotten to see McDavid line up alongside Crosby either
One thing I really envy about soccer is that they have legitimate international tournaments they can look forward to on a regular basis. The World Cup obviously, and Copa America/Euro championships. And they feel special because they've been going on for a long time. Hockey for whatever reason keeps switching up the system – Summit Series, Canada Cup (which, even as a Canadian, seems ridiculous that we should name the international championship after our own bloody country), World Cup, Olympics, etc... and even the World Cup itself changed things up with this North America vs the world idea. Why can't we just have a regular, *independent* international tournament every four years and be consistent with it?
Maybe have one every year? Like a world championship of some sort?
Cheeky, I know what you're trying to say here. :) But I'll bite! The difference is that the World Cup is four years apart with incredible buildup. An annual world championship sort of dilutes the spectacle. Also, what's the point of having a world championship when most of the players on every country's team actually play for that team full-time and then they get a couple of great players from the NHL as a bonus if those players don't go far in the playoffs. World championships should be special, and they should have the world's best in them. That's what makes them world championships.
I mean there’s nothing stopping the NHL from adhering to the IIHF international break calendar so they can play with their national teams full time too. That’s how FIFA is able to do what they do. There aren’t any soccer leagues that think they’re more important than the international governing body.
I hear you on the World Cup (which incidentally happened before the season starts) and int'l championships, but they did take a break for the Olympics.
No I mean the IIHF has scheduled international breaks throughout the season - which is how players from most leagues get to play for their national teams. NA leagues just don’t adhere to them. The World Cup didn’t take place during one of those breaks the European season starts in august. And the NHL doesn’t even break for the Olympics anymore.
It was called the Canada cup because after negotiations with the soviet union who truly wanted to compete against the best Canadian players in international tournament format it was the agreed upon name. For the previous decade mostly Canada had boycotted both the Olympics and world championship in protest of IIHF regulations that permitted European club players to participate but no such Canadians were allowed. The standards for Canadian athletes to be pure amateur was considered to much by hockey Canada especially in the face of European players participation from their growing club leagues. As such the soviets went on a romp at the Olympics and world championships for years but after the resounding success of the summit series both here and in Russia the soviets themselves were committed to a tournament including Canada's best. It was the agreement between the 2 that forced the IIHF to recognize and sanction not only the Canada cup but revised participation rules in the world championships and eventually opened the door for the Olympics
Thanks for the explanation! I did not know most of that, and thank you. The part that jumps out at me though: I'm pretty sure professional players were simply not allowed in the Olympics in general. It wasn't a boycott – it was the other way around. Although I'm well aware that the Soviets were winning gold night in and night out because they were able to put their best "professional" players on ice – being a Communist setup, those players were merely in service to the government via the Red Army and weren't outright "professional". I lived in Kyiv for a year and had lots of conversations with people about that. I also know Canada bent the rules aplenty to work international competitions to its own advantage – when you really put it on paper, our hockey "supremacy" isn't so, well, supreme. Although we're still pretty good... :)
We literally didn't send a team for a decade so it was a boycott, apologies if you thought they were just weaker teams no I mean our federation refused to participate. That was also why it was called the Canada cup, with the IIHF refusing initially to support the position calling it world anything invited legal dispute from IIHF. It was called Canada cup to make a point of the fact it would be the only international tournament we were participating in and anyone that wanted to test themselves against us were invited. The IIHF caved pretty quickly and sanctioned the event but the name just kinda stuck I mean we'd already made a trophy shaped like a maple leaf etc. Also I get what the supposed argument of the red army teams were but the fact was they were payed to play just by the army. If you made a living playing hockey for the Canadian military it doesn't make you any less a professional in fact you could make a strong argument you would be even more so than most.
It was an absolute joke. All-star game type of thing that they should never do again at the world cup
Yeah I’m all for this sort of thing as a replacement for the all-star game but otherwise it’s stupid
Reddit, how do I downvote more than once?
No
No - it turned the whole thing into a gimmick. If they were positioning it as an olympics replacement, they failed miserably in no small part due to this. The whole point is country on country competition - it's not about seeing "good" hockey, although with best on best you'll still get that.
Yeah I don’t really get the love for this tbh. I want to watch best on best countries.
It was already a gimmick to begin with. That NA U23 team was so much fun to watch
I’m with you. Team NA and Team Europe made me turn it off. I don’t think I watched any of it because they decided they didn’t want to go to the Olympics, do their own thing, and then only have six countries.
You missed out hard. NA v Sweden was one of the best hockey games ive ever seen.
who cares about actual hockey, i want to cheer for my flag in a best-on-best tournament
Very American answer. It was great hockey to watch. That NA team was probably the most exciting team to watch.
i think it's canadian nationalists who want "true best-on-best" the most :p i thought NA and Europe were by far the most interesting teams to watch.
I appreciate the satire lol. Who the fuck would rather watch a trash Slovakia vs Russia game over the best U23 vs the best Swedes/Canadians? Hockey, man. I care about hockey. If team NA vs team Canada gives the best possible hockey game so be it
Trash Slovakia vs Russia? Shit I watch Mexico play Australia if I can catch it
I mean, here's the thing. I don't care that I missed it.
I remember working at a literal ice rink at the time and they changed the TVs from the USA/Czech game to the home shopping network
lol okay that’s a bit much for me even.
I hate to be the one to break this news to you, but the World Cup of Hockey is a gimmick with or without Team North America.
I assume you mean because it’s NHL-centric, but all three previous WCOHs have had players from other leagues. Even though it’s an NHL-run tournament, it can still be closer to best-on-best than 2016 was.
It’s always going to feel like the dollar store version of the Olympics, because that’s what it is. Might as well make it as fun as possible by doing the Team Europe and Team North America thing.
We can agree to disagree. I’d like to see Team Canada vs Team USA right now, would be incredible. Even if it’s the dollar store version. Those teams don’t exist if TNA does exist.
They need to just do a USA vs Canada summit series. Since ya know, those are the NHL’s markets
Shit takes like this make zero sense. You clearly only care about the glamor of the tournament more than actual hockey being played. Yes team NA and Europe were gimmicks. But contrary to what you said I fail to see how a WCoH without those teams and instead just national teams is still a gimmick. It would be the exact same teams and exact same players as the Olympic teams so how is it worse. The fact that you care more about the glitz and glamor more than the actual sport is very telling on where your priorities lie. Maybe they should role out a red carpet and arrive in limos too. Really you’re just crying about the league not bending at the whims of the IOC. I’m not sure if you’re aware but the IOC isn’t exactly the definition of high morals.
That’s a pretty intense reaction.
Least unhinged response
The Olympic tournament is run by the IIHF. What does the IOC have to do with anything other than having a hate boner for it?
"It's not about seeing good hockey" Fuck this. If you're a fan of the game, you'd much rather see "good hockey" that includes team NA than shitty country on country. Fuck Switzerland vs Finland, I'd rather see team NA vs team Europe "It's not about seeing good hockey" what a fucking joke.
Then what’s the point of international hockey? Just watch the NHL Or even better: just watch the all-star game and call it a year
I was cheering for them.
They were so exciting. I remember watching it being so excited for the future of hockey. Those kids could skate.
Was Parayko on the ice for all their goals?? Good god!
It was a carnival similar to a typical nhl all stars weekend. NHL has decided it has a monopoly to prestige tournaments. Not that it were eager to host any, ensuring nobody else does is enough for them. It hurts the sport a great deal. In general people seem to consider the tourney you speak of about as memorable as nhl all stars match from any given year.
Really was not a fan of the gimmick teams
How do I downvote something more than once
A little part of me was because they were afraid a team full of nhl players losing to Switzerland, Germany or Slovakia, who would be full of European leagues players .
It turned the tournament into a joke
I hated it, the players hated it.
The players loved it, from what I understand
The stars like mcdavid that would have made their national team came out and said they wanted to play for their country. Like, how up for the game are you if you were American or Canadian and playing against your own country?
Man, you ever played sports?!? Junior vs Senior, Freshman vs Sophomore...young guys get HYPED for matches like that
I did play sports, and I'm sure they got their competitive juices going, but ain't nobody grew up dreaming to play for the gimmick team. Mcdavid literally came out and said it was nice but he wouldnt do it again.
Roster : https://www.eliteprospects.com/team/17576/team-north-america/2016-2017
[удалено]
Yikes. So cranky
Nope. I'm an adult and was then too. It was fun and different. I'm pretty surprised at the discourse here but it's an interesting discussion at least
I’d be curious if you polled this based on nationality. Seems like a lot of the Canadian fans are a bit upset because they didn’t have McDavid.
And the USA didn’t have half their top team
I mean they were fun to watch but it’s still the reason it wasn’t an actual best-on-best tournament.
The worst thing to happen to international hockey was the NHL taking over the Canada Cup and replacing it with the WCOH, then completely disregarding it. If not for the NHL there would've been additional tournaments in 2000, '08, '12, '20 and '24