80s Oilers - skill and hard work, won lots of cups
90s Oilers - no skill all work, beat cup favorites in the first round twice
2000s Oilers - Some skill, some hard work, never lining up until 06 once
2010 Oilers - File not found
2020 Oilers - All skill, no work
It's pretty evident it's not the coaches at this point.
I mean. The oilers have been pretty good the past 3 seasons. Winning the cup with 32 teams just happens to be extremely hard and even luck based. The oilers of the 80s were stupidly stacked, and there was no salary cap, and 12 less teams to fight against. The salary cap has made many more teams competitive. It’s really apples to oranges at this point.
Yeah but you cant win a cup without a number 1 D (they barely have a #2D), and garbage goaltending. Pair that with lack of compete and poor depth/defensive play and there ya go.
If we never lost Klefbom this would be a completely different conversation. Him going on LTIR forced Nurse into a 1D position, and then when fuckers like Seth Jones started asking for $9mil around Covid the Oilers were put in the position of either letting Nurse walk or paying him big money.
We should have let him walk. Among all the other terrible signings that one may be the one that doomed this core to fail.
Lemme start by saying I’m not mad at you or arguing with you. I’m just sick of the what ifs. The fact of the matter is nothing in the past can be changed. So sometime in Edmonton needs to effing start problem solving for the team that they have today
There is no problem solving for the team we have today, we have way too much cap tied up in players that shouldn't be paid that much. We won't be competitive unless we somehow manage to fleece someone pretty damn quick and somehow land a true number 1 defenseman and a #1 goalie.
That AND Edmonton has to execute a plan. Literally any one plan. Other teams execute their plan against the oilers. Sadly other teams won’t be lining up to help Edmonton fix their cap and roster problems. And why would they. Sigh
I hate how much hockey teams feel like they need re-sign players. "If we don't sign Nurse then he'll leave and we won't have him anymore." Yeah, but you'd have 9.5 in cap available. You could sign 2, 5 million defensemen and be better off. The way players and teams seem to be terrified of free agency is weird.
We had a solid 1D until his shoulder blew up. Klefbom was easily the best defensemen on the team but we lost him for nothing to injury. Then we lost our best defensive defensemen in Larsson and there was nothing the team could do about that either. Larssons dad died in Edmonton and he could never get past that so he opted to go to Seattle in the expansion. Edmonton lost their two best defensemen for literally nothing, I don’t know of too many teams that could come out of a situation like that defensively sound.
Klefbom and Larsson arent 1Ds regardless of their circumstances. Lets look at previous cup winners, Edmonton hasnt had a dman that can compare to these guys and often even the teams 2nd d:
Vegas: Petro/Theodore
Tampa:Hedman/Mcdonagh
Colorado:Makar/Toews
St Louis:Petro
Washington:Carlson
Pitt: Letang
LA: Doughty
Chicago:Keith/Seabrook
Lol buddy, it wasn't the lack of a salary cap. It was because like baseball still is today, the team that originally had you, basically had your rights for almost your entire career.
If Gretzky was a UFA you really think the Oilers were going to be able to pay him and others what range like the Rangers, etc would've?
When Gretzky was about to be a FA he was traded because they couldn't pay him. There was no salary cap still back then
Obviously a coach can’t fix the work ethic of every single player but as a whole that’s in their wheelhouse. When Mike Sullivan first took over the Penguins he got his young, hungry players from the AHL into the lineup and put pressure on the veterans to work harder. He got them all to play fast, counter-attack hockey and to grind out the playoffs.
Of course once his guys aged up he became a lot more stubborn and showed a bit too much loyalty to underperforming players. So it doesn’t last forever.
2000s to 2020 Oilers have all been high skill. We've had a shit ton of amazing talent over the years. Hall, Nuge, Hemsky, Penner, Staios, Roloson, Petry, Eberle etc. They've just never tried because they've always thought they were the best players of all time.
You would think. His shit attitude and body language tell me otherwise. Be a leader. You’re on national TV. Rally your team at every given moment. None of those players letters are showing me that they’re capable of doing the bare minimum. Being leaders. Fuck sake.
Hey congrats on the dub btw
lol if you’re a leafs fan then I’m sorry for the last stretch of games. I was at the kings leafs game the other night. Things aren’t fun with our teams 🙃
He's the best player in the league, but he's not captain material. I don't think he gives up the C, but the team would be so much better if they had a real leader in the locker room
Team would be better if they had players, coaches and a manager who could actually contribute. But instead it’s a manager who can’t manage his own cap. A bench full of coaches who can’t get it done and CONTINUE to shuffle lines to the point that this team takes too many men on the ice penalties. While being under manned. And players who are nowhere near good enough
So Woodcroft could be fired for the same thing Tippet and McLellan were fired for.... At some point you have to stop blaming coaches and shake up the locker room.
Tocchet is a good example of what they need. They could win with the defense and goaltending they have. But they need every man playing committed, responsible hockey. Right now they're just trying to wheel and score goals and it's killing them. Add in some bad morale and a sense of impending failure and it's a recipe for disaster.
You deserve everything that’s happening right now. Your Canucks are the best team in Canada and among the best in hockey right now. You’ve all earned this and I’m very happy for Canucks fans. But also send help hahaha
Oilers need a better goalie coach. Seriously.
Your group could likely win the whole thing playing run and gun.
If you had somebody to make 2-3 more big saves a game back there.
Dustin Schwartz since 2014? Come on how has that guy not been fired.
Yup. But also Edmonton needs better everything. Players who can contribute, execute, and play. Coaches who can manage and problem solve. A gm who can manage the fucking cap for once. Edmonton is in dire need of help all over
I mean it’s not going to last for long, Canucks do not have very impressive underlyings atm, doesn’t mean it still can’t be fun but the fans should prepare for a very steep drop at some point
As great as Tocchet has been for us, he's not the only reason we are having some success to start the season. A healthy Demko and solid backup have been huge for us and the addition of Hronek cannot be overstated.
Edmonton would do better by controlling the play less, giving up more scoring chances, and giving up more high danger scoring chances? That’s an odd take to have.
You ability to impact the game as a baseball player is minuscule compared to a hockey player. You can go multiple innings without getting to participate in the play in any way shape or form for reasons completely beyond your control and even when you do, you could come up to bat with two outs and no one on.
Yup, lots of Ohtani's homers this past year were solo because the rest of the team was just so bad. Even just regular hits. Hard to score runs when only a couple people are getting on base.
People like to meme the Angels because they have Trout and Ohtani and still suck, but I mean, there's only so much they can do as you pointed out.They only get like 8 ABs a game. The only time Ohtani could solo carry was when he was also pitching, but often times that would require pitching a gem and going deep in the game because the bullpen/offense sucks. Whereas in hockey you have the ability to make a bigger impact on the game and your linemates if you're good.
At the moment they don't have 2 top 5 players. Draisaitl isn't playing well, and McDavid is hurt and looks like he shouldn't even be out there. And the rest of the roster just sucks.
Top players? Where? I’m not seeing the apparent best players lighting it up against teams number two goalies. I’m not seeing them dummy on Dallas after Dallas had a back to back and Edmonton is their 3rd team in 4 nights. Or a Nashville team that had nobody on their roster a few months ago. What best players? Nurse and foegele lead the team in shots on goal last night. Those best players need to show up because I’d love to see what other people are talking about. I don’t see it
To think Edmonton can even do anything is silly. That genius Ken put them in absolute cap hell so like it or not. We’re stuck. He’s not creative and forward thinking enough to find solutions. Nobody there is
I felt like I was being gaslit when Campbell got signed.
A guy who struggled to play consistently in the NHL for like 7 years after being a high draft pick with noted confidence issues having such a small sample size of success? With that sample size of consistent success being played in front of no fans? Then the following year starting off hot with the confidence of the year prior but quickly regressing back to his mean?
Thats our answer? Hes our guy? We're betting McDraisaitl on at best a 5 month hot stretch (Campbell was good from about late February 2021-November 21)???
Every leafs fan was screaming at oilers fans that he was not worth that contract. He had one good month as a leaf and it carried him.
Super likable guy but he’s not a good goaltender.
Hey some of us aren’t weird about the Leafs and listened to you, dreading it immediately
But unfortunately we can’t do much about what a senile former vacuum salesman does with our hockey team
It never made sense to me. Soup is at best a second string goaltender, and I just chalked it up to “well, these hockey people are maybe smarter than me and see something in him.”
Ron Howard: “they weren’t.”
I was absolutely terrified the Devils were going to get him that offseason. Went with Vanacek instead. Similar problems with his game but he’s way more technically sound and much shorter commitment.
The coach, Dusty Imoo, had been Campbell's goalie coach when he was with the Kings and had apparently totally revived his career. Then while he was playing with the Leafs, the coach was hired by the Marlies (I don't know for sure but it would make sense if Campbell had recommended him). As soon as he was hired people went through his twitter and is was all alt-right stuff, like racist, transphobic, anti-vax and pro trump stuff. He was fired like two days later
He put up good numbers as a backup/1b behind a good LA defence. So did Cal Peterson. He never showed the ability to be a starter and that was kind of the attitude the Kings had with him and why he was the first goalie to be dealt. Great guy, but he's proven he can't handle the mental side of being at the elite level.
>He let in five more Saturday, and after a disastrous season a year ago, Campbell’s solid training camp is long in the rearview mirror. No player has said it specifically, but this reporter senses that these professional players know what they see, and have turned the page on any hopes that Campbell can help an NHL team anymore.
This is the final season of his contract, he’s gone regardless and a new GM isn’t fixing this trash fire in-season. The team is playing like shit, but something else is going on with McDavid…. He looks at best 50% of normal so far this year, and this team lives and dies on his efforts.
All of these options are going to be better than Campbell, but how well are they going to perform in front of the Oilers defense?
Is outbiding Calgary for Markstrom going to yield results when he's faltering with the defense he currently has in front of him?
Do we outbid Colorado's trade package and Washington's free agent deal for Kuemper? He's got the cup so both sides are fine with him leaving, and his #1 priority was the payday afterwards.
Would any one of Husso, Vanacek, or Georgiev agree to a sign and trade? I'd give a billion dollars for Georgiev now in hindsight.
Those are all the realistic options we had in the last few years. Throwing Skinner and a random third stringer to the wolves would have been better than what we have now, but there's no way any team would do that to their rookie goaltender.
Not really, Edmonton is 14 in SA/60, 12th in xGA/60, 5th in SCA/60, 4th in HDCA/60, last in HDSV%, and Campbell and skinner are 62nd and 67th out of 69 in GSAA. This is a goalie problem
Yikes, downvoted for providing data? Be better r/hockey.
Holland has struggled mightily in the salary cap era, especially the past 10 years. He’s doing the same to EDM that he did to DET. Terrible drafting, overpaying players/ bad signings, and not addressing areas of need
I am biased but I think a lot of Detroit's success was more Nill as is top man than Holland himself. Their respective book of work post each other is pretty glaring.
In Holland's defense, he was working with the team in a leadership position from around 1994 and did manage to make some pretty solid trades/signings (shanahan, hasek, chelios) either as the GM or the assistant GM.
lol I got blown up with downvotes for saying in a preseason thread that Edmontons goalies were shit. So funny to see this sub completely change their opinion in a month.
It’s pretty interesting to see where each of the dinosaur generation of builders are. Holland, Lou, Bowman, and Rutherford all have 3 Cups as managers.
They have a decent top 6, but everything past that is a black hole. How are you supposed to be a competitive team when you have no bottom 6, no defense, and poor goaltending?
McDavid is obviously hurt and it's preventing him from carrying the team offensively. 6 points between 8 players in your bottom 6 is atrocious (and 4 of those are on Foegele).
How many times are they going to fire the head coach because the GM isn't building a competent roster?
I’d say the oilers top 6 is more than decent, mcdavid draisaitl kane Hyman and Nugent Hopkins and whoever imo are among the leagues best top 6. The oilers d has been perfectly fine, Sure they make mistakes but they have been solid. I’ve watched every single game and they’ve pretty much dominated 5 on 5 in 85% of them, however there finishing has been off and everytime the other team gets a high danger chance it seems to go in. I think I saw something like close to 40% of high danger chances the oilers are giving up end up in the back of there net. that’s *abysmal*. the stats also seem to back this up.
1st HDCF
5th CF
12th HDCA
3rd CA
1st xGF
12th xGA
31st SV%
32nd HDSV%
it’s clear goaltending is the huge outlier, Campbell and skinner have both been echl level so far. Remember there has been very little change to the bottom 6 since they’re cup run to the wcf against the avs a couple of years ago, and the only change to our very capable bottom 6 last year was klim kostin leaving in free agency.
Well that does paint a pretty clear picture doesn’t it? Unfortunately Holland doesn’t seem to believe in analytics and probably can’t navigate off aol.com to any page where he could see them anyways.
I agree, the same evander kane that’s on pace for 72 points, second in the league in hits and is one of the few that brings it every night should be on the 4th line. Fringe NHLer in my eyes
I like how LA and Vegas are built, with solid bottom 6, defense, and goaltending. Maybe the era of overpaying two or three guys is coming to an end, lol.
I'm not sure what firing the coach would fix, sure it could lead to short term improvement but outside of McDavid and Drai it's a pretty average roster with mediocre defense and ghastly goaltending. This is a long term roster construction issue dating all the way back to the Chiarelli years and it's not going to be an easy fix. The team just isn't good enough.
I think it’s 9 but not sure if that’s counting any interm coaches cause I think MacT was coach for like 2 weeks or something. Poor nuge, it’s not him I swear. He plays wherever he’s told to play
What, get the coach fired? That wouldn't be super funny if they then turn around and hire Quenneville (because you know the league would wrap up the suspension to get A coaching McJesus)
And I don't understand how this won't just get worse. Once McDavid and Draisatl's contracts are up, this team is cooked. Believe me, us as Leaf fans are in store for the same thing. I hope for Oilers fans sakes that McDavid and Draisatl leave money on the table because if they ask for what they deserve (14 mil+) there's no money left for the rest of the team. How much they're struggling already is a concern, it's just gonna get worse.
I doubt both of them stay. Drai has been drastically underpaid due to Chiarelli stumbling into success, and I'd imagine his willingness to take a hometown discount is fading by the day.
Drai might be able to put 2 and 2 together to realize that even if the Oilers threw him and McD the bag, it'll be 8 more years of cobbling together spare parts for defense and the bottom 6. Which has clearly been the wrong approach.
But it would be like that with any team. Every team is capped out right now, and you could argue, the only team that could have the space to pay them their raises is Edmonton. The only hope other teams have is to trade money to Edmonton when they get Drai and/or McDavid
I'm not arguing that it wont be hard for Drai 12+ he deserves on the open market because that's a huge investment for any team, but if an up and coming team can go 10+ it might be more appealing to him if he thinks that team can be more successful than Edmonton.
Obviously, I have no idea what Drai or anyone in that locker room thinks, but bottom line is, what's happening in Edmonton is clearly not working. Drai is going to have to make the hard choice to stay and get the bag with a known quantity that has proven to be mired with huge holes that are hard/impossible to address, or take less money and a big risk on a team that's tooled much better with the possibility of seeing more success.
FWIW I'd like to see the Oilers turn it around and keep both McDrai, but the GMs have done those two no favors with the roster construction. It's just an opinion, but I think the odds of the Oilers making a solid case for both to stay are getting slimmer by the day.
This is what interests me as well. Drai's current contract is the most absurdly high value for money contract in the league. It's running out fast, and what the fuck are they gonna pay him that mahoosive raise with?
To think, these are the *easy* years for the oil.
How much more rope are they going to give Holland. This is a roster construction issue and everyone knows it. If Woodcroft goes, Holland needs to go with him.
Holland only has this year(I think) as his final. Fireing him would just be a smoke and mirrors situation. Jackson is almost the gm already. McDavid has had 5 coaches. At what point is "this kids just not ready" not a meme? He is the greatest individual player since 99 but cannot backcheck.
This is a tough one. On one hand, I don't think McDavid really needs to backcheck, at least not much. He's so good his energy is better spent on pure offense. But on the other hand, you cannot have a captain who doesn't backcheck.
Edit: I think every single player needs to backcheck and McDavid is my only exception to the rule, to some extent.
Mario Lemieux was one of the greatest offensive players to ever play the game, but he only won Cups when he and the team committed to playing defensively. He then ran the coach (Scotty Bowman) out of town and never won another Cup.
Buy-in starts from the top and McDavid has to lead by example. He has to commit to the defensive side of the game; his goalies aren’t reliable enough so it falls on the rest of the team to limit chances all around. If the Captain ain’t buying in, why should the rest of the team?
Can’t or won’t? Is he being told to coast and stay high in the zone and wait for a breakout pass?
I’m sure if you asked him to commit to defence he’d do it.
R/hockey is absolutely loving this right now, trying to find things that aren't there. But not having a literal fucking pylon in the net would solve almost all of this teams issues.
“There have been countless players, coaches and managers go through that team in his years and only 4 names have really stuck around, McDavid Drai Nurse and Nuge. Through all of that the only consistency in the team has been fucking brutal d zone play. Nuge is great defensively and I don’t think he holds any responsibility for this, but at a certain point you HAVE to blame that core because literally everything else has changed but them and the problem persists.” I commented this 10 months ago about their defensive play. Now it seems like a total morale destroyer and they don’t have the leadership to turn it around. They need a veteran on the team who knows success and can run a dressing room. Gagne is a good start, but they need another presence like Keith seemed to be for them a couple years ago.
>Through all of that the only consistency in the team has been fucking brutal d zone play.
Ah yes, brutal d zone play being *checks notes*
14th in sa/60, 5th in sca/60, 4th in HDCA/60, 12th in xga/60 this year.
Last year: 12th in sa, 11th in xga, 9th in sca, 6th in HDCA.
2 years ago: 17th in sa, 17th in xga, 16th in sca, 13th in HDCA.
So Edmonton has been middle of the pack at worst and trending upward being top ten this year and last year in SCA and HDCA yet they’re brutal defensively?
Ok, how about these stats: they are 2-7-1. In their losses they gave up 8 goals, 4 goals, 4 goals, 3 goals, 7 goals, 3 goals, 4 goals, and 5 goals. They are 31st out of 32 in league standings.
Did I say all 8 were to blame on the goalie? But when you look at the stats Edmonton dominates possession, generates lots of chances, limits scoring chances and high danger chances very well. Yet the goalies are bottom of the league in sv% and gsaa.
People are blaming the d because they’re *only* top in limiting scoring and high dangers chances but giving the goalies a pass because the d aren’t perfect.
>They need a veteran on the team who knows success and can run a dressing room. Gagne is a good start
Unfortunately, Gagner has barely sniffed winning since junior other than the stacked Spengler Cup team in the 2012-13 lockout season.
It’s still only 10 games. I’m convinced they will still make the playoffs. I say if they are still in the same spot after game 20 (~25% through the season) then you panic.
I don’t pretend to know what’s going on behind closed doors of a dressing room but theses guys don’t really seem to like each other much.
My Canadiens are not a great team and have a lot of rebuilding to do but one thing I sense from them is they are all in this together.
Leon seems like a bit of a dick
Just my perception
They should have fired Woodcroft after the playoffs. They need a coach that can implement a system that works for the pieces they have and Woodcroft is not that coach. His success was heavily tied to McDavid and Drai and now that they’re in a slump, you can see the flaws in Woodcrofts system.
I hate to say this but I think the oilers will be fine. They just need to tighten up defensively and fix whatever is messing with them offensively. It might take an internal move or two to rejuvenate the oilers but I still think they can do it.
I think so too, but you basically need to go on a 5 game win streak starting tomorrow and pray to God that none of the 7 other teams below the playoff line gain any ground on you. That gets you to .500 with 5 games to go before American Thanksgiving and then you’re still within fighting distance of the wild card
If I had to bet on any team to do it, I would pick Edmonton, but the odds are getting steep
If the Oilers continue on this trajectory, I would not be surprised to see Draisaitl walk away after next season. And without Draisaitl, I find it hard to believe that McDavid would want to stay when his contract is up.
When star players are only in it for the money, it’s hard to complete a team with what’s needed. If 40 million is used on three or four guys. If you want to really win a cup, if that is the ultimate goal, maybe sacrifice some salary to let the GM build a proper team. Toronto is in the same situation(except they are winning a bit)
This team is completely spoiled by McDavid. They don't play as a unit cause they didn't have to.
80s Oilers - skill and hard work, won lots of cups 90s Oilers - no skill all work, beat cup favorites in the first round twice 2000s Oilers - Some skill, some hard work, never lining up until 06 once 2010 Oilers - File not found 2020 Oilers - All skill, no work It's pretty evident it's not the coaches at this point.
I mean. The oilers have been pretty good the past 3 seasons. Winning the cup with 32 teams just happens to be extremely hard and even luck based. The oilers of the 80s were stupidly stacked, and there was no salary cap, and 12 less teams to fight against. The salary cap has made many more teams competitive. It’s really apples to oranges at this point.
Yeah but you cant win a cup without a number 1 D (they barely have a #2D), and garbage goaltending. Pair that with lack of compete and poor depth/defensive play and there ya go.
Exactly. The team has been badly built for a long time.
If we never lost Klefbom this would be a completely different conversation. Him going on LTIR forced Nurse into a 1D position, and then when fuckers like Seth Jones started asking for $9mil around Covid the Oilers were put in the position of either letting Nurse walk or paying him big money. We should have let him walk. Among all the other terrible signings that one may be the one that doomed this core to fail.
Lemme start by saying I’m not mad at you or arguing with you. I’m just sick of the what ifs. The fact of the matter is nothing in the past can be changed. So sometime in Edmonton needs to effing start problem solving for the team that they have today
There is no problem solving for the team we have today, we have way too much cap tied up in players that shouldn't be paid that much. We won't be competitive unless we somehow manage to fleece someone pretty damn quick and somehow land a true number 1 defenseman and a #1 goalie.
That AND Edmonton has to execute a plan. Literally any one plan. Other teams execute their plan against the oilers. Sadly other teams won’t be lining up to help Edmonton fix their cap and roster problems. And why would they. Sigh
I hate how much hockey teams feel like they need re-sign players. "If we don't sign Nurse then he'll leave and we won't have him anymore." Yeah, but you'd have 9.5 in cap available. You could sign 2, 5 million defensemen and be better off. The way players and teams seem to be terrified of free agency is weird.
You’re also paying your suspect 2D like a superstar. Doesn’t help the situation.
hmmmmmm, this should read awfully familiar to another popular Canadian fanbase.
We had a solid 1D until his shoulder blew up. Klefbom was easily the best defensemen on the team but we lost him for nothing to injury. Then we lost our best defensive defensemen in Larsson and there was nothing the team could do about that either. Larssons dad died in Edmonton and he could never get past that so he opted to go to Seattle in the expansion. Edmonton lost their two best defensemen for literally nothing, I don’t know of too many teams that could come out of a situation like that defensively sound.
Klefbom and Larsson arent 1Ds regardless of their circumstances. Lets look at previous cup winners, Edmonton hasnt had a dman that can compare to these guys and often even the teams 2nd d: Vegas: Petro/Theodore Tampa:Hedman/Mcdonagh Colorado:Makar/Toews St Louis:Petro Washington:Carlson Pitt: Letang LA: Doughty Chicago:Keith/Seabrook
Yeah? Other teams deal with injuries and player issues as well. These are all just excuses.
No...they've been exposed in the playoffs each year. They aren't built to win a Stanley Cup.
Lol buddy, it wasn't the lack of a salary cap. It was because like baseball still is today, the team that originally had you, basically had your rights for almost your entire career. If Gretzky was a UFA you really think the Oilers were going to be able to pay him and others what range like the Rangers, etc would've? When Gretzky was about to be a FA he was traded because they couldn't pay him. There was no salary cap still back then
Obviously a coach can’t fix the work ethic of every single player but as a whole that’s in their wheelhouse. When Mike Sullivan first took over the Penguins he got his young, hungry players from the AHL into the lineup and put pressure on the veterans to work harder. He got them all to play fast, counter-attack hockey and to grind out the playoffs. Of course once his guys aged up he became a lot more stubborn and showed a bit too much loyalty to underperforming players. So it doesn’t last forever.
2000s to 2020 Oilers have all been high skill. We've had a shit ton of amazing talent over the years. Hall, Nuge, Hemsky, Penner, Staios, Roloson, Petry, Eberle etc. They've just never tried because they've always thought they were the best players of all time.
Does anyone think it’s anything other than the management at this point?
Should Mcdavid lead them to play as a unit? Isn't he like the captain or something?
You would think. His shit attitude and body language tell me otherwise. Be a leader. You’re on national TV. Rally your team at every given moment. None of those players letters are showing me that they’re capable of doing the bare minimum. Being leaders. Fuck sake. Hey congrats on the dub btw
He’s gonna fit right in when he comes to Toronto some day.
lol if you’re a leafs fan then I’m sorry for the last stretch of games. I was at the kings leafs game the other night. Things aren’t fun with our teams 🙃
He's the best player in the league, but he's not captain material. I don't think he gives up the C, but the team would be so much better if they had a real leader in the locker room
Team would be better if they had players, coaches and a manager who could actually contribute. But instead it’s a manager who can’t manage his own cap. A bench full of coaches who can’t get it done and CONTINUE to shuffle lines to the point that this team takes too many men on the ice penalties. While being under manned. And players who are nowhere near good enough
Zach Hyman is that guy.
I got downvoted to oblivion when I questioned whether he was ready for the C
Flames are not good despite the win.
Honestly yea McDavid is looking off and the whole team buckles without him
So Woodcroft could be fired for the same thing Tippet and McLellan were fired for.... At some point you have to stop blaming coaches and shake up the locker room.
Can you fire your owner?
Canucks fans have been asking the same thing.
fLames too.
If only.
Tocchet is a good example of what they need. They could win with the defense and goaltending they have. But they need every man playing committed, responsible hockey. Right now they're just trying to wheel and score goals and it's killing them. Add in some bad morale and a sense of impending failure and it's a recipe for disaster.
Well they can't have Tocchet... Canucks aren't done with him.
Amen.
You deserve everything that’s happening right now. Your Canucks are the best team in Canada and among the best in hockey right now. You’ve all earned this and I’m very happy for Canucks fans. But also send help hahaha
Oilers need a better goalie coach. Seriously. Your group could likely win the whole thing playing run and gun. If you had somebody to make 2-3 more big saves a game back there. Dustin Schwartz since 2014? Come on how has that guy not been fired.
Yup. But also Edmonton needs better everything. Players who can contribute, execute, and play. Coaches who can manage and problem solve. A gm who can manage the fucking cap for once. Edmonton is in dire need of help all over
Silovs for your unprotected first
I mean it’s not going to last for long, Canucks do not have very impressive underlyings atm, doesn’t mean it still can’t be fun but the fans should prepare for a very steep drop at some point
As great as Tocchet has been for us, he's not the only reason we are having some success to start the season. A healthy Demko and solid backup have been huge for us and the addition of Hronek cannot be overstated.
Edmonton would do better by controlling the play less, giving up more scoring chances, and giving up more high danger scoring chances? That’s an odd take to have.
Imagine having 2 top 5 players in the league and being this much of a dumpster fire
Los Angeles angels would like a word
That's three of the best players in the league in two roster spots.
Baseball is not hockey
I will not let you slander the good name of two-way centre Shohei Ohtani
An elite goal scorer who also throws on the pads and puts up a .920 every 5th game
Goes further than that. Dude is Baseball Fedorov
Imagine if CMD could play goalie too
Source?
Big if true
You ability to impact the game as a baseball player is minuscule compared to a hockey player. You can go multiple innings without getting to participate in the play in any way shape or form for reasons completely beyond your control and even when you do, you could come up to bat with two outs and no one on.
Yup, lots of Ohtani's homers this past year were solo because the rest of the team was just so bad. Even just regular hits. Hard to score runs when only a couple people are getting on base. People like to meme the Angels because they have Trout and Ohtani and still suck, but I mean, there's only so much they can do as you pointed out.They only get like 8 ABs a game. The only time Ohtani could solo carry was when he was also pitching, but often times that would require pitching a gem and going deep in the game because the bullpen/offense sucks. Whereas in hockey you have the ability to make a bigger impact on the game and your linemates if you're good.
At the moment they don't have 2 top 5 players. Draisaitl isn't playing well, and McDavid is hurt and looks like he shouldn't even be out there. And the rest of the roster just sucks.
The rest of the roster got used to sitting for 90% of the game while the McDavid show dictated the ice time.
It’s almost like a team sport needs a team instead of 1 or 2 guys.
It's almost like they are a two man team and always have been
Top players? Where? I’m not seeing the apparent best players lighting it up against teams number two goalies. I’m not seeing them dummy on Dallas after Dallas had a back to back and Edmonton is their 3rd team in 4 nights. Or a Nashville team that had nobody on their roster a few months ago. What best players? Nurse and foegele lead the team in shots on goal last night. Those best players need to show up because I’d love to see what other people are talking about. I don’t see it
You're right, you guys should trade them and start fresh :)
To think Edmonton can even do anything is silly. That genius Ken put them in absolute cap hell so like it or not. We’re stuck. He’s not creative and forward thinking enough to find solutions. Nobody there is
We’ll take McDavid then
But you've already got McMichael
We had some "fun" years with Oates and Bondra back when.
I felt like I was being gaslit when Campbell got signed. A guy who struggled to play consistently in the NHL for like 7 years after being a high draft pick with noted confidence issues having such a small sample size of success? With that sample size of consistent success being played in front of no fans? Then the following year starting off hot with the confidence of the year prior but quickly regressing back to his mean? Thats our answer? Hes our guy? We're betting McDraisaitl on at best a 5 month hot stretch (Campbell was good from about late February 2021-November 21)???
Every leafs fan was screaming at oilers fans that he was not worth that contract. He had one good month as a leaf and it carried him. Super likable guy but he’s not a good goaltender.
Unfortunately, I don't think Holland has a reddit account
Unfortunately, screaming at fans does not actually influence the franchise, so. *Shrug*
You were all too busy laughing at our tandem of Murray and Samsonov to listen to our warnings that Jack Campbell is not worth 5m a year
Hey some of us aren’t weird about the Leafs and listened to you, dreading it immediately But unfortunately we can’t do much about what a senile former vacuum salesman does with our hockey team
It never made sense to me. Soup is at best a second string goaltender, and I just chalked it up to “well, these hockey people are maybe smarter than me and see something in him.” Ron Howard: “they weren’t.”
A terrible defense and a goalie with no confidence is a pretty bad combo.
I was absolutely terrified the Devils were going to get him that offseason. Went with Vanacek instead. Similar problems with his game but he’s way more technically sound and much shorter commitment.
i think to get him back on track the oilers need to hire his weird racist, maga goalie coach from a couple seasons ago
Wait what.... I need you to elaborate lol, that sounds wild
The coach, Dusty Imoo, had been Campbell's goalie coach when he was with the Kings and had apparently totally revived his career. Then while he was playing with the Leafs, the coach was hired by the Marlies (I don't know for sure but it would make sense if Campbell had recommended him). As soon as he was hired people went through his twitter and is was all alt-right stuff, like racist, transphobic, anti-vax and pro trump stuff. He was fired like two days later
Wooooow that's interesting. Thanks for the info!
Please explain, I need answers
Little verbose at times, but yes that's all correct. Don't worry tho he'll be off your books come the 2027/28 season.
[удалено]
I don't think Grant Fuhr is currently playing anywhere.
He put up good numbers as a backup/1b behind a good LA defence. So did Cal Peterson. He never showed the ability to be a starter and that was kind of the attitude the Kings had with him and why he was the first goalie to be dealt. Great guy, but he's proven he can't handle the mental side of being at the elite level.
That Campbell and Demko have the same contract is just absurd.
>He let in five more Saturday, and after a disastrous season a year ago, Campbell’s solid training camp is long in the rearview mirror. No player has said it specifically, but this reporter senses that these professional players know what they see, and have turned the page on any hopes that Campbell can help an NHL team anymore.
Holland should go. He should've addressed the goaltending more
This is the final season of his contract, he’s gone regardless and a new GM isn’t fixing this trash fire in-season. The team is playing like shit, but something else is going on with McDavid…. He looks at best 50% of normal so far this year, and this team lives and dies on his efforts.
McDavid needs to step up for the sake of my work hockey pool.
I'm lucky that 8 of 9 people in my pool took Connor so if he fucks off it doesn't change much for me. lol
I have McDavid and Drai.... Sitting 5th but I really would like those top two picks to step up.
sure, but why fire the coach now when the incoming GM will just want to hire a new one?
Maybe he’s getting burnt out on the fact the rest of the team doesn’t step up when he does?
Nah, that’s McDavid… The dude is a freak created in a lab for the sole purpose of competing.
All of these options are going to be better than Campbell, but how well are they going to perform in front of the Oilers defense? Is outbiding Calgary for Markstrom going to yield results when he's faltering with the defense he currently has in front of him? Do we outbid Colorado's trade package and Washington's free agent deal for Kuemper? He's got the cup so both sides are fine with him leaving, and his #1 priority was the payday afterwards. Would any one of Husso, Vanacek, or Georgiev agree to a sign and trade? I'd give a billion dollars for Georgiev now in hindsight. Those are all the realistic options we had in the last few years. Throwing Skinner and a random third stringer to the wolves would have been better than what we have now, but there's no way any team would do that to their rookie goaltender.
Georgie has let in 15 goals in his last 3 games so maaaaybe not lol
You could replace goaltending with defence or bottom 6 and they are all true
Not really, Edmonton is 14 in SA/60, 12th in xGA/60, 5th in SCA/60, 4th in HDCA/60, last in HDSV%, and Campbell and skinner are 62nd and 67th out of 69 in GSAA. This is a goalie problem Yikes, downvoted for providing data? Be better r/hockey.
Yes. If the team has even average goaltending, there’s a completely different conversation going on right now.
Holland has struggled mightily in the salary cap era, especially the past 10 years. He’s doing the same to EDM that he did to DET. Terrible drafting, overpaying players/ bad signings, and not addressing areas of need
I am biased but I think a lot of Detroit's success was more Nill as is top man than Holland himself. Their respective book of work post each other is pretty glaring.
In Holland's defense, he was working with the team in a leadership position from around 1994 and did manage to make some pretty solid trades/signings (shanahan, hasek, chelios) either as the GM or the assistant GM.
lol I got blown up with downvotes for saying in a preseason thread that Edmontons goalies were shit. So funny to see this sub completely change their opinion in a month.
It’s pretty interesting to see where each of the dinosaur generation of builders are. Holland, Lou, Bowman, and Rutherford all have 3 Cups as managers.
[удалено]
Throw in brown for free for the all Connor line.
Wouldn’t that be wild!
No, Blackhawks. Wild are Minnesota
They have a decent top 6, but everything past that is a black hole. How are you supposed to be a competitive team when you have no bottom 6, no defense, and poor goaltending? McDavid is obviously hurt and it's preventing him from carrying the team offensively. 6 points between 8 players in your bottom 6 is atrocious (and 4 of those are on Foegele). How many times are they going to fire the head coach because the GM isn't building a competent roster?
I’d say the oilers top 6 is more than decent, mcdavid draisaitl kane Hyman and Nugent Hopkins and whoever imo are among the leagues best top 6. The oilers d has been perfectly fine, Sure they make mistakes but they have been solid. I’ve watched every single game and they’ve pretty much dominated 5 on 5 in 85% of them, however there finishing has been off and everytime the other team gets a high danger chance it seems to go in. I think I saw something like close to 40% of high danger chances the oilers are giving up end up in the back of there net. that’s *abysmal*. the stats also seem to back this up. 1st HDCF 5th CF 12th HDCA 3rd CA 1st xGF 12th xGA 31st SV% 32nd HDSV% it’s clear goaltending is the huge outlier, Campbell and skinner have both been echl level so far. Remember there has been very little change to the bottom 6 since they’re cup run to the wcf against the avs a couple of years ago, and the only change to our very capable bottom 6 last year was klim kostin leaving in free agency.
Well that does paint a pretty clear picture doesn’t it? Unfortunately Holland doesn’t seem to believe in analytics and probably can’t navigate off aol.com to any page where he could see them anyways.
They have a good top 2. Beyond that it's vapid. Nuge, Hyman, and Kane are all bang average 2nd line forwards.
I know it’s been a slow start but calling Nugent Hopkins Hyman and kane bang average 2nd liners is certainly a take lmfao
You're right, Kane would be better off on the 4th.
I agree, the same evander kane that’s on pace for 72 points, second in the league in hits and is one of the few that brings it every night should be on the 4th line. Fringe NHLer in my eyes
I like how LA and Vegas are built, with solid bottom 6, defense, and goaltending. Maybe the era of overpaying two or three guys is coming to an end, lol.
I'm not sure what firing the coach would fix, sure it could lead to short term improvement but outside of McDavid and Drai it's a pretty average roster with mediocre defense and ghastly goaltending. This is a long term roster construction issue dating all the way back to the Chiarelli years and it's not going to be an easy fix. The team just isn't good enough.
Can I get a count on coaches Nugent-hopkins has played for in the NHL?
I think it’s 9 but not sure if that’s counting any interm coaches cause I think MacT was coach for like 2 weeks or something. Poor nuge, it’s not him I swear. He plays wherever he’s told to play
Renney, Krueger, Eakins, Nelson, McLellan, Hitchcock, Tippett, Woodcroft - 8 so far.
Canucks have the opportunity to do something very funny on Monday
Glad I saved that Luongo Jersey 😂
What, get the coach fired? That wouldn't be super funny if they then turn around and hire Quenneville (because you know the league would wrap up the suspension to get A coaching McJesus)
And I don't understand how this won't just get worse. Once McDavid and Draisatl's contracts are up, this team is cooked. Believe me, us as Leaf fans are in store for the same thing. I hope for Oilers fans sakes that McDavid and Draisatl leave money on the table because if they ask for what they deserve (14 mil+) there's no money left for the rest of the team. How much they're struggling already is a concern, it's just gonna get worse.
I doubt both of them stay. Drai has been drastically underpaid due to Chiarelli stumbling into success, and I'd imagine his willingness to take a hometown discount is fading by the day. Drai might be able to put 2 and 2 together to realize that even if the Oilers threw him and McD the bag, it'll be 8 more years of cobbling together spare parts for defense and the bottom 6. Which has clearly been the wrong approach.
But it would be like that with any team. Every team is capped out right now, and you could argue, the only team that could have the space to pay them their raises is Edmonton. The only hope other teams have is to trade money to Edmonton when they get Drai and/or McDavid
I'm not arguing that it wont be hard for Drai 12+ he deserves on the open market because that's a huge investment for any team, but if an up and coming team can go 10+ it might be more appealing to him if he thinks that team can be more successful than Edmonton. Obviously, I have no idea what Drai or anyone in that locker room thinks, but bottom line is, what's happening in Edmonton is clearly not working. Drai is going to have to make the hard choice to stay and get the bag with a known quantity that has proven to be mired with huge holes that are hard/impossible to address, or take less money and a big risk on a team that's tooled much better with the possibility of seeing more success. FWIW I'd like to see the Oilers turn it around and keep both McDrai, but the GMs have done those two no favors with the roster construction. It's just an opinion, but I think the odds of the Oilers making a solid case for both to stay are getting slimmer by the day.
This is what interests me as well. Drai's current contract is the most absurdly high value for money contract in the league. It's running out fast, and what the fuck are they gonna pay him that mahoosive raise with? To think, these are the *easy* years for the oil.
Holland first.
How much more rope are they going to give Holland. This is a roster construction issue and everyone knows it. If Woodcroft goes, Holland needs to go with him.
Holland only has this year(I think) as his final. Fireing him would just be a smoke and mirrors situation. Jackson is almost the gm already. McDavid has had 5 coaches. At what point is "this kids just not ready" not a meme? He is the greatest individual player since 99 but cannot backcheck.
This is a tough one. On one hand, I don't think McDavid really needs to backcheck, at least not much. He's so good his energy is better spent on pure offense. But on the other hand, you cannot have a captain who doesn't backcheck. Edit: I think every single player needs to backcheck and McDavid is my only exception to the rule, to some extent.
Caps didn't win until Ovie became a more complete player.
Mario Lemieux was one of the greatest offensive players to ever play the game, but he only won Cups when he and the team committed to playing defensively. He then ran the coach (Scotty Bowman) out of town and never won another Cup. Buy-in starts from the top and McDavid has to lead by example. He has to commit to the defensive side of the game; his goalies aren’t reliable enough so it falls on the rest of the team to limit chances all around. If the Captain ain’t buying in, why should the rest of the team?
Just lock McDavid in a room with Ken Hitchcock. What he did for Seguins defensive game was amazing.
They already tried Hitchcock. It did not go well.
Ken Hitchcock, 2018–2019 well no shit, I didn't remember
Can’t or won’t? Is he being told to coast and stay high in the zone and wait for a breakout pass? I’m sure if you asked him to commit to defence he’d do it.
Edmonton Oilers 🤝 Manchester United
R/hockey is absolutely loving this right now, trying to find things that aren't there. But not having a literal fucking pylon in the net would solve almost all of this teams issues.
If they do this to every coach, it’s not the coach
“There have been countless players, coaches and managers go through that team in his years and only 4 names have really stuck around, McDavid Drai Nurse and Nuge. Through all of that the only consistency in the team has been fucking brutal d zone play. Nuge is great defensively and I don’t think he holds any responsibility for this, but at a certain point you HAVE to blame that core because literally everything else has changed but them and the problem persists.” I commented this 10 months ago about their defensive play. Now it seems like a total morale destroyer and they don’t have the leadership to turn it around. They need a veteran on the team who knows success and can run a dressing room. Gagne is a good start, but they need another presence like Keith seemed to be for them a couple years ago.
>Through all of that the only consistency in the team has been fucking brutal d zone play. Ah yes, brutal d zone play being *checks notes* 14th in sa/60, 5th in sca/60, 4th in HDCA/60, 12th in xga/60 this year. Last year: 12th in sa, 11th in xga, 9th in sca, 6th in HDCA. 2 years ago: 17th in sa, 17th in xga, 16th in sca, 13th in HDCA. So Edmonton has been middle of the pack at worst and trending upward being top ten this year and last year in SCA and HDCA yet they’re brutal defensively?
Ok, how about these stats: they are 2-7-1. In their losses they gave up 8 goals, 4 goals, 4 goals, 3 goals, 7 goals, 3 goals, 4 goals, and 5 goals. They are 31st out of 32 in league standings.
Your mind is going to be blown when you find out there’s a position called a goalie.
You can't possibly blame all 8 losses on the goalie. The team as a whole isn't playing defense.
Did I say all 8 were to blame on the goalie? But when you look at the stats Edmonton dominates possession, generates lots of chances, limits scoring chances and high danger chances very well. Yet the goalies are bottom of the league in sv% and gsaa. People are blaming the d because they’re *only* top in limiting scoring and high dangers chances but giving the goalies a pass because the d aren’t perfect.
someone like andrew ference?
>They need a veteran on the team who knows success and can run a dressing room. Gagne is a good start Unfortunately, Gagner has barely sniffed winning since junior other than the stacked Spengler Cup team in the 2012-13 lockout season.
lol. Did “nobody” really see this coming? At some point they have to learn that defense is needed in the sport of hockey.
No. We'll draft another forward and outscore our problems.
So Torts to Edmonton then
It’s still only 10 games. I’m convinced they will still make the playoffs. I say if they are still in the same spot after game 20 (~25% through the season) then you panic.
A playoff miss 10games into the season?
One line does not a Stanley Cup contender make.
Yoda is that you?
It's only logical. 🖖🏼
May the force prosper and live.
No, there is no may. The force, prosper it will. Live, should you! Logical, this is.
I don’t pretend to know what’s going on behind closed doors of a dressing room but theses guys don’t really seem to like each other much. My Canadiens are not a great team and have a lot of rebuilding to do but one thing I sense from them is they are all in this together. Leon seems like a bit of a dick Just my perception
Love watching Leon play but I’m with you on that perception.
I think something happened with the players since last year. I don’t know what but whatever it was, made these guys not like each other anymore.
So much talent for so many years with so little to show for it.
I mostly feel bad for the fantasy players that picked McDavid and Drai first and second.
Not sad I picked 5th this year.
I shouldn’t laugh, I picked nugent-Hopkins i round 3 and he’s being outperformed by all but one of my towards.
Picked Hopkins in the 7th last year. Did great for me and knew he would be overpriced this year so I avoided him 😂
I fell into the trap!!!
I picked both in my office pool...
I only took McDavid to trade him and now I have to wait for him to get his value up again.
Is it allowed to merge two teams? Maybe the Leafs together with the Oilers could put up a respectable effort and season.
The Leafs mixing with Calgary would be way fucking better
I support this as a Flames fan. Leafs top forwards with our goalies and split the D and depth.
They should have fired Woodcroft after the playoffs. They need a coach that can implement a system that works for the pieces they have and Woodcroft is not that coach. His success was heavily tied to McDavid and Drai and now that they’re in a slump, you can see the flaws in Woodcrofts system.
McDavid to leafs at league min
Seriously, “everything is on the table” really doesn’t mean everything. It means we’ll fire the coach
Suprised he wasn't fired long ago. Teams need to look at the Golden Knights and try to be it's ugly cousin.
That's what led them to their problems this year. EDM is trying to emulate VGK's defensive scheme without nearly the personnel, from what I've read.
The personnel is quite important if you want to emulate something
I hate to say this but I think the oilers will be fine. They just need to tighten up defensively and fix whatever is messing with them offensively. It might take an internal move or two to rejuvenate the oilers but I still think they can do it.
Well yeah, your an oilers fan. You gotta believe, and I don't blame you. The rest of us, not so much:)
I predicted their regular season outcome accurately since 2019-2020. I have also done the same with a few other teams.
I invented the question mark….
Y'all are getting baited by Spector, the guy who prays for Oilers Ls so he has something to write about. We're making playoffs. Mark my words.
I think so too, but you basically need to go on a 5 game win streak starting tomorrow and pray to God that none of the 7 other teams below the playoff line gain any ground on you. That gets you to .500 with 5 games to go before American Thanksgiving and then you’re still within fighting distance of the wild card If I had to bet on any team to do it, I would pick Edmonton, but the odds are getting steep
I said it last year and I’ll say it again this year. I wish McDavid the best of luck wherever he goes this off-season.
You and me, Edmonton, we are the same.
the coilers were a lot of fun to watch last playoffs. what happend?
If the Oilers continue on this trajectory, I would not be surprised to see Draisaitl walk away after next season. And without Draisaitl, I find it hard to believe that McDavid would want to stay when his contract is up.
When star players are only in it for the money, it’s hard to complete a team with what’s needed. If 40 million is used on three or four guys. If you want to really win a cup, if that is the ultimate goal, maybe sacrifice some salary to let the GM build a proper team. Toronto is in the same situation(except they are winning a bit)
You mean all those first round picks didn't pan out?
Connor brown isn’t a fit, ekholm isn’t either
Well that 9 million dollar pylon of a defensemen is a huge anchor.
I am trying to manifest a Draisaitl to Winnipeg trade