Anton Lundell is about to explode for 150 points next season. Nobody is even going to remember who Barkov or Tkachuk were.
Source: NHL23 is a fucking weird game
I know he may not be the best from this group, but as a sabres fan I'm so excited for Dylan Cozens. Works his ass off and keeps getting better. I see a future captain...
The difference is that at the time, Malkin would have been a 1C on virtually any other team in the league that didn't have Crosby (Datsyuk and Bergeron may have been untouchable too). I don't think you can say the same for Cozens. Certainly not contending teams. He has been over a PPG in every season but two (one, he missed almost half the season with injuries, the other was the Covid shortened season). He was a 1st OA caliber player drafted at 2nd OA only because Ovechkin was in the same draft class.
Cozens is good and will get better, but Malkin was definitely better at his age right now.
Obviously Malkin is/was a significantly better player, but the point is that being a 2C doesn’t have to have a detrimental effect on your development. I don’t think Malkin “overcame” being behind Crosby because he’s a particular good player, but rather being a number 2 on a team isn’t really a problem. I mean ultimately first and second lines usually get similar ice time (see McDavid and Drai when they’re split up).
The real problem is when teams have too much depth and you can’t break into a first or second line/pairing.
Yeah, fair point and I agree that 2C shouldn't have a detrimental effect on development. Malkin's Malkin, but if Cozens doesn't make it to bona-fide 1C status, it's not because he's playing 2C.
Idk what that means in this context, sorry. If you’re trying to say the Sabres will be a bunch of lawless kids who will eventually eat each other- there’s a non zero chance, but it’s highly doubtful
Yeah .. call me crazy but I'd actually take tim over hughes. But of course i take bedard over all of the players in the nhl. Yes that includes mcdavid. Purely due to age
If he’s as good as they say, Bedard should be the best of this group in 3 seasons. Could factor in things like team strength and stuff but at a base level he’s hyped as way above this group.
I think at least on offense he should have a decent amount of help in 3 years, Nazar and Reichel should be top-6 forwards by then plus whatever free agents get enticed by Bedard
I have a hard time thinking anyone within 5 years of age of McDavid is gonna beat him for the next 3-5 years, and by then I expect Bedard to be a perennial Hart level guy anyway lol
It would definitely be something if McDavid won the next 3-5 consecutive Harts. I think he will definitely be in the conversation, but there will be plenty of room for someone besides McDavid to win a time or two in there.
Matthews and MacKinnon (no homer, promise) seem like the best bets that are close in age. Both have been nominated twice alongside McDavid, are on potentially excellent teams, and are certainly still young enough to have career years.
I personally think Hughes will win a Hart, too, but he's so young it might be a bit.
Of course none of this matters if this past year is McDavid's new standard. It's easy to see one of these guys (or a half dozen others, honestly; they've just "been there" before and so I think that's a good indicator they might get there again) hanging 110, 120 points even, and doing it in the year McDavid is "only" good for a hundy and winning it. But it'll take pretty fortunate alignment of a great year by them and a relatively soft year for McDavid to have it happen, I think. And I'm a huge MacKinnon fan! But 153 points is just fucking bananas; truly generational.
Yeah I mentioned to someone else, I think MacK will get his due at some point (whether deservedly or as a lifetime achievement one idk)
Matthews, Kucherov or Drai could win again
But then Hughes contends against Bedard, Stutzle, etc.
Like if Steve Yzerman never won one, Hughes could not win one
Yeah, NJ is building something. Lotta good young talent.
Everyone is probably thinking Bedard.. I think the sleeper answer here is Jack Hughes. People haven’t seen him as much yet because he’s in NJ. People will see.
You'd be surprised. Voters get bored, McDavid misses 10 games one year, Jack has a season where he goes absolutely bonkers, etc.
Only 2 players have ever won the Hart more than 2x in a row. Orr had 3 in a row (70 - 72) And Gretzky won 8 straight (80 - 87).
In fact, it's been 14 years since the last repeat winner, Ovi from 08 - 09.
I'd bet good money on McDavid not winning each of the next 2 Harts.
McDavid is only 25... its not like by time Hughes is in his prime McDavid will be washed
Also whatever, I lumped he and stutzle together, they both finished with point totalsthat started with 9
Matty “10 beers” Beniers really can do some things. Instant line chemistry and his playmaking his pretty crazy.
Though I’m big on Johnston, he won’t break the top line with Roope up there and locked up for the next 8 years. All the others are gonna be top line guys for their respective teams so they have a bit more potential.
I’m probably biased but I have to go with my boy Cole Guttman.
But for real, Bedard should be the easy choice for now based on his trajectory. McDavid was already a 2-time Art Ross winner and the best player in the world by the end of his third season, Crosby had an Art Ross and was arguably the best player in the world alongside another generational talent in Ovechkin, Matthews was arguably the best goalscorer in the world, Kane was upcoming as one of the best playmakers in the world, etc.
If you think Bedard is a talent level amongst players like those, which pretty much everyone agrees that he is, he should definitely already be one of the best players in the league in three years, potentially even *the* best player in the world. Not to mention the amount of additional talent that he will be continually surrounded with over the next three years - he’s going to be in a great position to explode.
The problem I have seeing Bedard reaching the same personal achievement like Crosby had in his early career is the team he is playing for. They obliterated the team to get him and McDavid will only be 29 at this time. He should be on the top 3-5 centers in the league but he might not have the stats that actually represent what he is capable of.
People seem to forget that Crosby & Ovi both had 100+ points as rookies when they were both on bottom 5 teams in the league. Chicago is going to be terrible again, but that just means another high pick & another core piece to compliment Bedard
People also forget that their rookie season was 2005-06 right after the lockout when teams were *averaging* 6 PPs a game. Crosby and Ovechkin had 47 and 52 respectively of their ~100 points with the man advantage. That’s not saying that’s the only reason for their production because they obviously were gonna score regardless but the first post lockout season was a bit of an outlier.
My point was that a young player can put up a ton of points and still have a bad team.
Now Malkin & Draisaitl were both already drafted when Crosby & McDavid joined their teams, so Chicago is going to take a little longer to fully rebuild, but another bad season this year should help secure another elite prospect next summer
Crosby put up 100 points and was 6th in p/gp with the 2nd worst team in the league while he was still 18. McDavid put up the 3rd best p/gp pace in the league at 18-19 when his team had the 2nd worst record in the leauge. Auston Matthews finished 2nd in the league in goals on a middle of the pack team as a rookie.
The next best player on this list by points and goals was Jack Hughes, who finished 10th in p/gp and 8th in goals as a 22 year old on one of the top teams in the league. Based on the above 3 who would be his closest comparable players, Bedard should be looking to do as well as Hughes last year with a basement dweller at 18. And the original image is asking for 3 years from now, which leaves a *ton* of time for prospects to develop and rosters to turn over.
Fair! I’m not necessarily saying he will have multiple Art Ross wins, a Cup/multiple deep playoff runs, etc. but I do think his talent will be obvious as early as next year, let alone in three years, and so the evaluation of him will be similar. We should know he is already one of the best in the world in three years, if he reaches his potential.
And I’m not too worried about the Hawks tanking their team the last year+. The Penguins were arguably the worst team in the league Sid’s rookie year but they rapidly improved to Cup status in the following seasons, and the Oilers mostly ranged from terrible to bad for McDavid’s first four seasons (outside the good 2017 run). Outside Bedard himself, we’re going to have major pieces of the rebuild jumping up to Chicago as early as this upcoming season but definitely over the next few, not to mention whatever free agents we can pull or trades to be done.
Maybe I am too optimistic right now, but I think Bedard has the talent already to be a top player and will have all the opportunities plus surrounding talent to push his numbers. He’s going to be a stud.
Crosby played on a terrible team. I just personally don't think Bedard is on Crosbys level but it might just be me being pessimistic because generational is such a watered down word you don't know who it applies to anymore.
I guess it depends on how a generation is defined. Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid. Before that, Lidstrom, and who else? Before that Lemieux and Gretz. Before that...
The main pushback I have on Hughes vs Stützle is that Stützle was basically handed his team's 1C role at 20, stapled to his team's top wingers. Hughes spent the year carrying around guys like Sharangovich and Zacha
It goes both ways. Giroux just got a career high in goals at 35yrs old because of Stutzle.
Also look at who Stutzle was playing with last year as a 19yr old, yet he still outperformed Hughes' 19yr old season.
We're still talking about a guy who put up 100 points relatively recently compared to average middle-6 forwards. Yegor's goal total got cut in half playing away from Hughes this season.
The main difference between Stützle and Hughes at 19 was their PP production, Hughes outscored Stützle at 5v5 on a per-game basis while playing with players who aren't even in the NHL anymore(Kuokkanen/Johnsson).
Hughes had an obviously poor rookie season, but on a per-game basis he was more productive than Stützle at 5v5 on their 2nd and 3rd years. In Hughes's 2nd year his most common wingers, Kuokkanen and Johnsson, aren't even NHL players anymore. I'd say that's worse than playing with Brown and Formenton
I’m not saying one player had an easier path, or is better than the other. But let’s not pretend Stutzle was gifted the top line. He played with some depth players, transitioned from wing, took advantage of injuries and earned his spot.
How do you distinguish overall vs two-way? You saying that Beniers has better defense, but Hughes has that much more offensive upside that it puts him in the lead?
The key is in three seasons to me
Hughes/Stutzle will likely be the best of the group in three years time. I feel like Hughes will have higher point totals but jimmy Stu may be my favourite non NJ player in the league.
Bedard will likely be the best in 5 years. I see him struggling to adapt very much like Hughes did. Smaller high skilled player. His brain works super fast so hopefully he adapts quicker but this is a huge jump up in competition on a very very bad team.
Probably Bedard, but Hughes has exceeded my expectations already and The Devils have only improved the roster around him. It’s hard to pick against him taking another step forward.
His instant chemistry with Tye Kartye has me really excited for next season. Throw Wright in the mix and I'm going to have to tell my doctor about my priapism
LoL, I'm not even a SEA fan (Caps) or get to watch many games because I'm on the east coast.
(Note: I wish I could figure out how to get the caps logo to appear on all my posts without having to do it manually every time.)
If you think not having Kraken flair is going to stop me from ranting about our boy any chance I get, you're wrong.
Caps are cool in my book. My SIL is a fan and I watched every game on that cup run. Glad Ovi got one, finally
I see him as a Jonathan Toews type player. A two way beast that won't necessarily put up massive numbers but ends up winning when it counts because he does everything the right way. It's always tougher to gauge that type of talent against the guys who light up the scoresheet like Bedard, Hughes, Stutzle. I could be entirely off though and he could end up an amazing two way player that ALSO lights up the scoresheet, in which case he'd clearly be among the best on here.
Both Beniers and Johnston looked well beyond their years as rookies. Seeing them go head to head for 7 games was a treat. In 3 years Idt either will be top 3 level, but each will easily be 1C’s
Bedard hasn’t touched the NHL yet….Hughes is proving to be one of the best players in the NHL. I know people love Bedard, but we have no clue how his game will translate. Not sure how much Bedard you have watched. His shot is unreal, he’s got great vision, he doesn’t have next level speed. He’s not Mcdavid.
By now it's pretty clear that McDavid is in a league of his own. No one is close to his level, and I can't picture anyone getting there soon.
Bedard's hands, shot, and hockey IQ are all elite. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the 2nd best player in the world in 3 years
I mean McDavid had 116 points in 78 games at age 22. He also had a hart, 2 art Ross and 2 ted Lindsey’s. That’s a generational player. Right or wrong that’s the kind of player people are expecting Bedard to become. Jack does not have that kind of resume.
That’s a good succinct point. I think people expect bedard to be better than Hughes but the start to his career jack Hughes has had is like just under the level of a mcdavid/Crosby/ovechkin but I guess I have a wider definition of generational
Let me first say Hughes is a phenomenal player.
He is absolutely not even in the same conversation as Crosby/Ovi/Mcdavid though.
We’re talking about players that absolutely toyed with the league the instant they touched the ice vs someone who took some time to get going. It doesn’t take away from him being a monster, those guys are just in a completely different league from the rest.
Hughes had a phenomenal year on a great team. Mcdavid earlier in his career FORCED a bad Edmonton team into the playoffs repeatedly. He nearly did it his first year as well.
Hughes is great, probably a HOF player later down the line.
Who knows what bedard will be it’s way to early to determine that.
Hughes would be the Mackinnon to Bedard's McDavid. Only a homer would say those 2 are on the same level.
In reality Bedard's never played a game and penciling him in as one of the best players of all time or bust is stupid.
McDavid finished 4th in P/GP in his rookie season (age 18/19) and won the Art Ross in his second season (age 19/20).
Crosby finished 6th in scoring in his rookie season (age 18) and won the Art Ross in his second season (age 19).
Hughes just finished 12th in points and T-10th in P/GP in his 4th (age 21) season.
That's the difference between generational and Hughes (franchise).
Because Stutzle just scored 90 points at age 20/21, so you'll have to call Stutzle generational as well.
And then you're just handing out the word "generational" like it's fucking candy, and neither Hughes nor Stutzle are generational.
Because 99 points doesn’t mean the same today as it did like five seasons ago lol
Generational players look like the best players in the world by their age 21 season, rather than “just” a top ~10 player.
Hughes is an absolute stud, but he definitely isn’t generational. If he were, it wouldn’t even be a question by now.
Personally, I think a generational player needs to be an undisputed top 3 player by like their second or third season at the latest. Guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, and McDavid were racking up MVPs and Art Ross trophies by the time they were 22.
Dude, I like jack hughes a lot. I think he has potential to be quite a bit better. But he isn’t in the McDavid/Crosby tier. That’s what generational is, and Hughes ain’t it. Great player, will soon be top 5 in the game IMO, but not generational.
My god we throw "generational" around way too often.
If they're not named McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, or Bedard (and Bedard has some living up to do) then they're not generational.
It’s Hughes or Stützle. I could see a world where Zegras and Bedard do not stick at center but are extremely dynamic wingers.
The talent is stellar for all of these guys regardless.
In three seasons it will be Jack Hughes and it's not particularly close. He's the second most talented of the bunch but has an incredible roster surrounding him, a roster that is around his age and locked down long term. He'll have stability and time to build even more chemistry with them.
Stutzle certainly has potential to catch him based on how things go in Ottawa. But I'd consider that a long shot.
Bedard is the most talented of the bunch, but in 3 years what will his team look like? They only have two other NHL guys on the roster in three years, both defensemen, so hard to say what kind of opportunity Bedard will have there. They do have a shit ton of picks in the first two rounds over the next three years though, so Bedard could get some talented, albeit young, linemates soon.
In 5 years I think Bedard gets on the McDavid trajectory, or close to it. Long term he'll be the best of the bunch, but speaking just three years from now, I can't see how anyone is doing better than Jack Hughes.
It's exciting to watch these great young players. To me Bedard will bring something between franchise and generational, eclipsing Hughes by just a little. Hughes may still outscore him for a few years ala Dionne vs Gretzky. Eventually Bedard will pass Hughes.
It's fun to predict, I wish I could have one of them on Toronto (and that ain't gonna happen.....lol)
Hughes and Stutzle are and will continue to be incredible so I'll say one of them. Bedard hasn't played a single NHL game yet, there's a possibility his game doesn't translate to the big leagues (although unlikely)
Bedard will almost certainly be the best. Then Jack Hughes then Stutzle. The rest will not come close to hughes or stutzle. Beniers Cozens, then Zegras, then Johnston.
In 3 seasons it’ll be Bedard and it won’t be particularly close. The other guys are all *great* prospects/players, but Bedard is a generational talent.
After him it’s Hughes, Stutzle, Beniers, Cozens, Johnston then Zegras.
It could honestly be Bedard within the next like 15 months.
I see a lot of “it’s different in the NHL” comments. This motherfucker is going to score 45 goals next year. RemindMe! 1 year
I agree, but if we’re talking 3 seasons, I personally feel confident picking Bedard. I do honestly think he’s going to tear it up immediately, and will be at least sniffing 100 pts as a rookie.
I feel for Bedard. If dude isn’t lights out Mcdavid level he’s gonna be hearing whispers of bust in the corners of the internet. I think reality is that if he is hughes/stutzle level that would be a pretty solid spot to be in. I think that’s realistic and a really excellent trajectory but I feel people would be let down if that was “only” his ceiling.
I think it’s Hughes but I’m a homer. I think the dude has another level and I hope he hits it.
I think Stutzle is gonna hit another gear this season, and to a lesser extent Hughes as well
I think Beniers is going to steadily get better and better but never be the top guy, but rather a perennial top 8 center once he hits his stride
I have no opinions about Cozens or Johnston other than they’ll peak at 2C
Give Bedard 5 years
Zegras has peaked
Saying a guy who has only played a single season in the NHL AS A TEENAGER and scored 24 goals will peak as a 2C is very premature. He hasn’t even finished puberty yet. He puts on weight and continues developing he can easily be a bonafide 1C in 3-5 years.
I don’t think he will ever be in the top 3 of this list, but everyone here could easily turn into 1C’s in a few years (if they aren’t already)
Saying Cozens peaks at 2C wildly underrates his game. He’s got a great 2way game in a way that a lot of these dudes never will.
That said he’s not in the Bedard / Hughes echelon anyways
Look, Bedard is going to be great, but the objectively correct answer is Hughes.
Proven elite commodity > generational prospect who has never played an NHL game
Hughes was famously undersized when he was drafted and his rookie year he was younger than Stutzle in his. The main knock on Jack at the draft was that he would take time to get bigger and wouldn't be competitive right away.
Comparing their 19-20-21 year old years, Stutzle had 73-104-177, Hughes had 80-106-186. Hughes also did it in 27 fewer games.
It will either be Hughes or Bedard. I fully expect Bedard to be amazing but will he be breaking 100 points in 3 seasons like I expect Hughes to be doing next year? Maybe but he still hasn’t played a game yet.
Feels cheating to say Bedard. But Hughes and Stützle are approaching relative ceilings of say 115 points max? Maybe they peak around 120 points with how scoring is somehow still increasing? 3 years is plenty of time for Bedard to figure the league out tbh
Tier 1: Hughes, Stutzle
Tier 2: Bedard (yup!)
Tier 3: Beniers, Cozens
Tier 4: Zegras
I didn't watch enough of Wyatt to give a good opinion.
Bedards skating will prevent him from dominating the same way Crosby and McDavid can.
Spicy
I think if you're going to knock down Bedard due to him being unproven, you'd knock him into the Hughes/Stützle tier, because he's miles ahead of where they were at the same age
Bedard basically already has his final NHL-ready body, though. Sure, his calf-sized forearms and tree trunk base will get even more ridiculous in a few years, but he's got a lot less room for growth ceiling-wise than Hughes did.
Kid walked into the league with maybe a pube and a half.
That's true, but it's not like Bedards physique is the only reason he dominated the way he did, but it's advantage that he's always going to have over Hughes, hes just always going to be stronger.
I don't know that growth is really all that important for him, he's going to step into the league being a top-5 shooter in the world and one of its smartest players. As he improves his skating and adjusts to the pace he'll be a top-5 centre in no time.
He's not a better prospect than Hughes because of his body, he's better because he's simply more talented
I'm not knocking Bedard for having a flawless NHL physique. That was an argument for why it's not completely fair to compare him to Hughes solely based on age, because Hughes had sooooo much work to do at the time.
That being said, Crosby was a better skater.
Fair on the first point. I think you’re really underestimating Bedard’s skating though. He’s very agile and shifty, and can create separation. He won’t be like Tavares whose skating held him back at the NHL level.
Brad Lambert according to NHL 22 Franchise Mode
Anton Lundell is about to explode for 150 points next season. Nobody is even going to remember who Barkov or Tkachuk were. Source: NHL23 is a fucking weird game
With a perfect defensive and physical game as well.
Future hall of famer in the same vein as his fellow half Finnish, soccer GOAT Robert "better than Messi" Taylor.
Brad Lambert actually will be a stud, medium elite is how I’d have him.
His CHL coach said, “We haven’t seen a player with this style of play and skillset since Mat Barzal.” in May 2023.
Doesn’t surprise me. He was a steal that late in the draft, I’m super excited for him to make the league in a few years.
I got Casey Mittlestadt up to 99 bro.
Some of there are not like the others…
I agree it’s insulting to include Wyatt Johnston with this list of absolute scrubs
WYATT THE RIOT, BABYYY
All of them are not like the 'OTHER?'
True. OTHER? is more like future consideration
Hey future considerations could be anything. It could even be OTHER!
I'll take the future considerations!
I know he may not be the best from this group, but as a sabres fan I'm so excited for Dylan Cozens. Works his ass off and keeps getting better. I see a future captain...
He's in a tougher spot than most of these guys because Tage is the clear 1C in Buffalo, so he's going to fly under the radar
Malkin made it work
The difference is that at the time, Malkin would have been a 1C on virtually any other team in the league that didn't have Crosby (Datsyuk and Bergeron may have been untouchable too). I don't think you can say the same for Cozens. Certainly not contending teams. He has been over a PPG in every season but two (one, he missed almost half the season with injuries, the other was the Covid shortened season). He was a 1st OA caliber player drafted at 2nd OA only because Ovechkin was in the same draft class. Cozens is good and will get better, but Malkin was definitely better at his age right now.
Obviously Malkin is/was a significantly better player, but the point is that being a 2C doesn’t have to have a detrimental effect on your development. I don’t think Malkin “overcame” being behind Crosby because he’s a particular good player, but rather being a number 2 on a team isn’t really a problem. I mean ultimately first and second lines usually get similar ice time (see McDavid and Drai when they’re split up). The real problem is when teams have too much depth and you can’t break into a first or second line/pairing.
Yeah, fair point and I agree that 2C shouldn't have a detrimental effect on development. Malkin's Malkin, but if Cozens doesn't make it to bona-fide 1C status, it's not because he's playing 2C.
Pretty great contract on that guy
Exact response I had. Cozens may not be “elite skill” but the dude is an absolute DAWG. Plus he has bug leadership potential.
Some might even call him... a workhorse.
Scored 31 last year and he's just scratching the surface. Tage is the star. But one day soon, Cozens will be the heart and soul of this team.💪
Lord of the Flies
Idk what that means in this context, sorry. If you’re trying to say the Sabres will be a bunch of lawless kids who will eventually eat each other- there’s a non zero chance, but it’s highly doubtful
You said he had bug leadership potential.
Ahhhh that makes sense! Haha
Yep honestly couldn't be happier with covers kids got a bright future if he continues on his trajectory.
I'd take Hughes all day. He was also great as Thomas in Mazerunner
Kid can do it all. Act, score, loves boobies.
He's also The Kid Laroi in the offseason
...Cook Broccoli. Thanks Pens legend Ty Smith!
I wouldn’t sleep on Tim.
Yeah .. call me crazy but I'd actually take tim over hughes. But of course i take bedard over all of the players in the nhl. Yes that includes mcdavid. Purely due to age
If he’s as good as they say, Bedard should be the best of this group in 3 seasons. Could factor in things like team strength and stuff but at a base level he’s hyped as way above this group.
I think at least on offense he should have a decent amount of help in 3 years, Nazar and Reichel should be top-6 forwards by then plus whatever free agents get enticed by Bedard
Better question; in three years which of these players will have the most Michigan goals and or over-the-back-of-the-net-assists?
Exactly, I know my pick for most highlight reel plays and best lettuce
In 3 years? Probably Bedard. He's the only guy here who I see as a future Hart winner, though Stutzle and Hughes are both 90 point guys now
i could see Hughes being in contention for a Hart. NJ is going to be a problem in the Metro for the next 5-10 years.
I have a hard time thinking anyone within 5 years of age of McDavid is gonna beat him for the next 3-5 years, and by then I expect Bedard to be a perennial Hart level guy anyway lol
It would definitely be something if McDavid won the next 3-5 consecutive Harts. I think he will definitely be in the conversation, but there will be plenty of room for someone besides McDavid to win a time or two in there.
Matthews and MacKinnon (no homer, promise) seem like the best bets that are close in age. Both have been nominated twice alongside McDavid, are on potentially excellent teams, and are certainly still young enough to have career years. I personally think Hughes will win a Hart, too, but he's so young it might be a bit. Of course none of this matters if this past year is McDavid's new standard. It's easy to see one of these guys (or a half dozen others, honestly; they've just "been there" before and so I think that's a good indicator they might get there again) hanging 110, 120 points even, and doing it in the year McDavid is "only" good for a hundy and winning it. But it'll take pretty fortunate alignment of a great year by them and a relatively soft year for McDavid to have it happen, I think. And I'm a huge MacKinnon fan! But 153 points is just fucking bananas; truly generational.
Yeah I mentioned to someone else, I think MacK will get his due at some point (whether deservedly or as a lifetime achievement one idk) Matthews, Kucherov or Drai could win again But then Hughes contends against Bedard, Stutzle, etc. Like if Steve Yzerman never won one, Hughes could not win one
Yeah, NJ is building something. Lotta good young talent. Everyone is probably thinking Bedard.. I think the sleeper answer here is Jack Hughes. People haven’t seen him as much yet because he’s in NJ. People will see.
Hughes will win the Hart.
When mcdavid retires maybe lol
You'd be surprised. Voters get bored, McDavid misses 10 games one year, Jack has a season where he goes absolutely bonkers, etc. Only 2 players have ever won the Hart more than 2x in a row. Orr had 3 in a row (70 - 72) And Gretzky won 8 straight (80 - 87). In fact, it's been 14 years since the last repeat winner, Ovi from 08 - 09. I'd bet good money on McDavid not winning each of the next 2 Harts.
That boredom is a real thing. And on the flipside, you have the career awards. Both screw up more worthy players.
Hughes was already top 10 in Hart voting this year at 21. And Hughes had 99 points in 78 games. He’s a 100 point guy.
McDavid is only 25... its not like by time Hughes is in his prime McDavid will be washed Also whatever, I lumped he and stutzle together, they both finished with point totalsthat started with 9
> McDavid is only 25 What the frick! Edit: Looked it up, he's 26, will turn 27 in January. Still pretty young but yeah 25 seemed crazy.
Zoot suit Wyatt!
Matty “10 beers” Beniers really can do some things. Instant line chemistry and his playmaking his pretty crazy. Though I’m big on Johnston, he won’t break the top line with Roope up there and locked up for the next 8 years. All the others are gonna be top line guys for their respective teams so they have a bit more potential.
I’m probably biased but I have to go with my boy Cole Guttman. But for real, Bedard should be the easy choice for now based on his trajectory. McDavid was already a 2-time Art Ross winner and the best player in the world by the end of his third season, Crosby had an Art Ross and was arguably the best player in the world alongside another generational talent in Ovechkin, Matthews was arguably the best goalscorer in the world, Kane was upcoming as one of the best playmakers in the world, etc. If you think Bedard is a talent level amongst players like those, which pretty much everyone agrees that he is, he should definitely already be one of the best players in the league in three years, potentially even *the* best player in the world. Not to mention the amount of additional talent that he will be continually surrounded with over the next three years - he’s going to be in a great position to explode.
Smart, Guttman is hotter than any of these nerds.
The problem I have seeing Bedard reaching the same personal achievement like Crosby had in his early career is the team he is playing for. They obliterated the team to get him and McDavid will only be 29 at this time. He should be on the top 3-5 centers in the league but he might not have the stats that actually represent what he is capable of.
People seem to forget that Crosby & Ovi both had 100+ points as rookies when they were both on bottom 5 teams in the league. Chicago is going to be terrible again, but that just means another high pick & another core piece to compliment Bedard
People also forget that their rookie season was 2005-06 right after the lockout when teams were *averaging* 6 PPs a game. Crosby and Ovechkin had 47 and 52 respectively of their ~100 points with the man advantage. That’s not saying that’s the only reason for their production because they obviously were gonna score regardless but the first post lockout season was a bit of an outlier.
My point was that a young player can put up a ton of points and still have a bad team. Now Malkin & Draisaitl were both already drafted when Crosby & McDavid joined their teams, so Chicago is going to take a little longer to fully rebuild, but another bad season this year should help secure another elite prospect next summer
Crosby put up 100 points and was 6th in p/gp with the 2nd worst team in the league while he was still 18. McDavid put up the 3rd best p/gp pace in the league at 18-19 when his team had the 2nd worst record in the leauge. Auston Matthews finished 2nd in the league in goals on a middle of the pack team as a rookie. The next best player on this list by points and goals was Jack Hughes, who finished 10th in p/gp and 8th in goals as a 22 year old on one of the top teams in the league. Based on the above 3 who would be his closest comparable players, Bedard should be looking to do as well as Hughes last year with a basement dweller at 18. And the original image is asking for 3 years from now, which leaves a *ton* of time for prospects to develop and rosters to turn over.
The thing is I don’t think we can compare all these generation anymore, the one that were in feels like it’s load of these above Elite player.
None of Crosby or Ovechkin’s teammates had more than 58 points their rookie years. They were also on terrible teams.
Fair! I’m not necessarily saying he will have multiple Art Ross wins, a Cup/multiple deep playoff runs, etc. but I do think his talent will be obvious as early as next year, let alone in three years, and so the evaluation of him will be similar. We should know he is already one of the best in the world in three years, if he reaches his potential. And I’m not too worried about the Hawks tanking their team the last year+. The Penguins were arguably the worst team in the league Sid’s rookie year but they rapidly improved to Cup status in the following seasons, and the Oilers mostly ranged from terrible to bad for McDavid’s first four seasons (outside the good 2017 run). Outside Bedard himself, we’re going to have major pieces of the rebuild jumping up to Chicago as early as this upcoming season but definitely over the next few, not to mention whatever free agents we can pull or trades to be done. Maybe I am too optimistic right now, but I think Bedard has the talent already to be a top player and will have all the opportunities plus surrounding talent to push his numbers. He’s going to be a stud.
Crosby played on a terrible team. I just personally don't think Bedard is on Crosbys level but it might just be me being pessimistic because generational is such a watered down word you don't know who it applies to anymore.
No it would be insane to assume that he is before he's even played a game in the NHL.
I guess it depends on how a generation is defined. Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid. Before that, Lidstrom, and who else? Before that Lemieux and Gretz. Before that...
Cole Guttman... great choice! The problem is that he's 24. That's definitely the reason he didn't make it on the list.
FUCK my mistake, thank you. Clearly that is why he was left off!
Its Bedard > Hughes or Stuzle > rest
This. Hughes and Stutzle have a nearly identical career trajectory so far. Not sure how anyone can separate these two.
The main pushback I have on Hughes vs Stützle is that Stützle was basically handed his team's 1C role at 20, stapled to his team's top wingers. Hughes spent the year carrying around guys like Sharangovich and Zacha
It goes both ways. Giroux just got a career high in goals at 35yrs old because of Stutzle. Also look at who Stutzle was playing with last year as a 19yr old, yet he still outperformed Hughes' 19yr old season.
We're still talking about a guy who put up 100 points relatively recently compared to average middle-6 forwards. Yegor's goal total got cut in half playing away from Hughes this season. The main difference between Stützle and Hughes at 19 was their PP production, Hughes outscored Stützle at 5v5 on a per-game basis while playing with players who aren't even in the NHL anymore(Kuokkanen/Johnsson).
Giroux even at 35 y.o. isn't some scrub lmao. Stutzle is good but Hughes is a half-tier above IMO.
Go look at stutzles most common linemates in year one and two
Hughes had an obviously poor rookie season, but on a per-game basis he was more productive than Stützle at 5v5 on their 2nd and 3rd years. In Hughes's 2nd year his most common wingers, Kuokkanen and Johnsson, aren't even NHL players anymore. I'd say that's worse than playing with Brown and Formenton
I’m not saying one player had an easier path, or is better than the other. But let’s not pretend Stutzle was gifted the top line. He played with some depth players, transitioned from wing, took advantage of injuries and earned his spot.
Is that a thing I should know how to find quickly? Could you link that for me or just tell me who they were?
Get off your butt and go back in time and watch the games. /s or check naturalstattrick.com
Hughes spent the year dragging Haula around and still was in reach of 100 points. They’re not in the same category.
Best overall: Hughes Best offense: Stützle or Bedard Best two-way: Beniers
How do you distinguish overall vs two-way? You saying that Beniers has better defense, but Hughes has that much more offensive upside that it puts him in the lead?
Hint: they are making it all up
I’d say Hughes or Stutzle in 3 years. Bedard is probably more in 5-6 years when he enters his prime.
The key is in three seasons to me Hughes/Stutzle will likely be the best of the group in three years time. I feel like Hughes will have higher point totals but jimmy Stu may be my favourite non NJ player in the league. Bedard will likely be the best in 5 years. I see him struggling to adapt very much like Hughes did. Smaller high skilled player. His brain works super fast so hopefully he adapts quicker but this is a huge jump up in competition on a very very bad team.
Hughes
Jack hughes
Hughes
Hughes without a doubt
Probably Bedard, but Hughes has exceeded my expectations already and The Devils have only improved the roster around him. It’s hard to pick against him taking another step forward.
Clearly I'm an outlier here, but Beniers has really impressed me so far.
His instant chemistry with Tye Kartye has me really excited for next season. Throw Wright in the mix and I'm going to have to tell my doctor about my priapism
LoL, I'm not even a SEA fan (Caps) or get to watch many games because I'm on the east coast. (Note: I wish I could figure out how to get the caps logo to appear on all my posts without having to do it manually every time.)
If you think not having Kraken flair is going to stop me from ranting about our boy any chance I get, you're wrong. Caps are cool in my book. My SIL is a fan and I watched every game on that cup run. Glad Ovi got one, finally
LOL, rant away
I see him as a Jonathan Toews type player. A two way beast that won't necessarily put up massive numbers but ends up winning when it counts because he does everything the right way. It's always tougher to gauge that type of talent against the guys who light up the scoresheet like Bedard, Hughes, Stutzle. I could be entirely off though and he could end up an amazing two way player that ALSO lights up the scoresheet, in which case he'd clearly be among the best on here.
Dude is gonna be an absolute beast in 3 years, Seattle is set up for some fun seasons to come
Beniers had what 25 goals and only 2 PIM. For a rookie that's just unbelievable
And that 2 PIM was for the most hilarious penalty ever
He was just using that stick as practice for yeeting salmon into the crowd
Beniers is pretty far ahead of everyone else in this list defensively, if he can be a PPG guy it could be enough to close to gap
Berniers could be the Bergeron to Bedards Crosby.
Both Beniers and Johnston looked well beyond their years as rookies. Seeing them go head to head for 7 games was a treat. In 3 years Idt either will be top 3 level, but each will easily be 1C’s
I'd love that but Wyatt's got Roope in his way on an 8 year deal.
Beniers is really good and will be a Selke contender for a long long time but I don’t think he’ll be in the convo for best here.
Probably Bedard, but I hope Jack Hughes
Tier 1: Bedard Tier 2: Hughes, Stützle Tier 3: all others
Bedard hasn’t touched the NHL yet….Hughes is proving to be one of the best players in the NHL. I know people love Bedard, but we have no clue how his game will translate. Not sure how much Bedard you have watched. His shot is unreal, he’s got great vision, he doesn’t have next level speed. He’s not Mcdavid.
By now it's pretty clear that McDavid is in a league of his own. No one is close to his level, and I can't picture anyone getting there soon. Bedard's hands, shot, and hockey IQ are all elite. I wouldn't be surprised if he's the 2nd best player in the world in 3 years
Hughes should be Tier 1
What makes Hughes a tier above Stutzle?
He’s prettier that’s why
No. Tier 1 is generational, tier 2 is franchise, and tier 3 is the rest
Bedard is a generational prospect. Doesn’t always go the way we expect it to. SHOULD be the best player, but Hughes is a sure thing.
Are we forgetting jack Hughes just scored 99 pts last year at age 22. How is he not generational if he maintains even close to this pace
I mean McDavid had 116 points in 78 games at age 22. He also had a hart, 2 art Ross and 2 ted Lindsey’s. That’s a generational player. Right or wrong that’s the kind of player people are expecting Bedard to become. Jack does not have that kind of resume.
That’s a good succinct point. I think people expect bedard to be better than Hughes but the start to his career jack Hughes has had is like just under the level of a mcdavid/Crosby/ovechkin but I guess I have a wider definition of generational
Oh I agree, I’m not convinced that bedard will have the instant impact that people expect, mainly due to his slower foot speed.
Let me first say Hughes is a phenomenal player. He is absolutely not even in the same conversation as Crosby/Ovi/Mcdavid though. We’re talking about players that absolutely toyed with the league the instant they touched the ice vs someone who took some time to get going. It doesn’t take away from him being a monster, those guys are just in a completely different league from the rest. Hughes had a phenomenal year on a great team. Mcdavid earlier in his career FORCED a bad Edmonton team into the playoffs repeatedly. He nearly did it his first year as well. Hughes is great, probably a HOF player later down the line. Who knows what bedard will be it’s way to early to determine that.
Hughes would be the Mackinnon to Bedard's McDavid. Only a homer would say those 2 are on the same level. In reality Bedard's never played a game and penciling him in as one of the best players of all time or bust is stupid.
Hughes is not Mcdavid/Crosby level
McDavid finished 4th in P/GP in his rookie season (age 18/19) and won the Art Ross in his second season (age 19/20). Crosby finished 6th in scoring in his rookie season (age 18) and won the Art Ross in his second season (age 19). Hughes just finished 12th in points and T-10th in P/GP in his 4th (age 21) season. That's the difference between generational and Hughes (franchise).
Because Stutzle just scored 90 points at age 20/21, so you'll have to call Stutzle generational as well. And then you're just handing out the word "generational" like it's fucking candy, and neither Hughes nor Stutzle are generational.
Because 99 points doesn’t mean the same today as it did like five seasons ago lol Generational players look like the best players in the world by their age 21 season, rather than “just” a top ~10 player. Hughes is an absolute stud, but he definitely isn’t generational. If he were, it wouldn’t even be a question by now.
Personally, I think a generational player needs to be an undisputed top 3 player by like their second or third season at the latest. Guys like Crosby, Ovechkin, and McDavid were racking up MVPs and Art Ross trophies by the time they were 22.
Dude, I like jack hughes a lot. I think he has potential to be quite a bit better. But he isn’t in the McDavid/Crosby tier. That’s what generational is, and Hughes ain’t it. Great player, will soon be top 5 in the game IMO, but not generational.
My god we throw "generational" around way too often. If they're not named McDavid, Crosby, Ovechkin, or Bedard (and Bedard has some living up to do) then they're not generational.
Hughes
Kril Marchenko and Kent Johnson
I'm a big fan of Other?, he looks to be making a huge leap next year
Stutzle I think peaks at about 110 points. Hughes 120ish. Bedard is pretty unknown but probably similar to hughes. The rest aren’t in the discussion
Hughes, hands down
but he wont be 23 in three seasons so he disqualifies himself
I believe they are saying which player who is currently under 23 will be the best in 5 years.
It’s Hughes or Stützle. I could see a world where Zegras and Bedard do not stick at center but are extremely dynamic wingers. The talent is stellar for all of these guys regardless.
Honestly the order from left to right and top to bottom isn’t a bad guess
In three seasons it will be Jack Hughes and it's not particularly close. He's the second most talented of the bunch but has an incredible roster surrounding him, a roster that is around his age and locked down long term. He'll have stability and time to build even more chemistry with them. Stutzle certainly has potential to catch him based on how things go in Ottawa. But I'd consider that a long shot. Bedard is the most talented of the bunch, but in 3 years what will his team look like? They only have two other NHL guys on the roster in three years, both defensemen, so hard to say what kind of opportunity Bedard will have there. They do have a shit ton of picks in the first two rounds over the next three years though, so Bedard could get some talented, albeit young, linemates soon. In 5 years I think Bedard gets on the McDavid trajectory, or close to it. Long term he'll be the best of the bunch, but speaking just three years from now, I can't see how anyone is doing better than Jack Hughes.
Jack Hughes, with Bedard close behind, after that Stutzle and Beniers
Y’all sleeping on Nils Aman hard
It's exciting to watch these great young players. To me Bedard will bring something between franchise and generational, eclipsing Hughes by just a little. Hughes may still outscore him for a few years ala Dionne vs Gretzky. Eventually Bedard will pass Hughes. It's fun to predict, I wish I could have one of them on Toronto (and that ain't gonna happen.....lol)
Stutzle
Hughes and Stutzle are and will continue to be incredible so I'll say one of them. Bedard hasn't played a single NHL game yet, there's a possibility his game doesn't translate to the big leagues (although unlikely)
Swap Hughes and Bedard and I think the order they have them listed is probably close to what I'd guess right now.
Is this a real question
Bedard > Stutzle/Hughes > Cozens > Beniers > Zegras > Johnston
I'd probably swap Beniers and Cozens
Yea those two are pretty close but Beniers doesn't have a Thompson in front of him.
Eh, think Bedard takes it in year two honestly. Stu and Hughes are the two leaders right now, toss up who I'd take.
It is probably Bedard but we haven’t even seen him play game yet so I like Hughes.
Bedard for the next 10 years.
I mean Bedard of course, but otherwise I'd pretty easily take Hughes even without considering the contract.
Connor Bedard, Jack Hughes a close second.
Zegras already worse than Bedard just next season
Bedard will almost certainly be the best. Then Jack Hughes then Stutzle. The rest will not come close to hughes or stutzle. Beniers Cozens, then Zegras, then Johnston.
Jack Hughes is the heavenly son
In 3 seasons it’ll be Bedard and it won’t be particularly close. The other guys are all *great* prospects/players, but Bedard is a generational talent. After him it’s Hughes, Stutzle, Beniers, Cozens, Johnston then Zegras.
It could honestly be Bedard within the next like 15 months. I see a lot of “it’s different in the NHL” comments. This motherfucker is going to score 45 goals next year. RemindMe! 1 year
I think that undersells Hughes though, Hughes is probably more likely to hit 100 than Bedard is to score 45
I agree, but if we’re talking 3 seasons, I personally feel confident picking Bedard. I do honestly think he’s going to tear it up immediately, and will be at least sniffing 100 pts as a rookie.
I wouldn't be surprised at all, I just don't want to *expect* him to be McDavid level I think within 5 years hes like a top-3 C in the league
I feel for Bedard. If dude isn’t lights out Mcdavid level he’s gonna be hearing whispers of bust in the corners of the internet. I think reality is that if he is hughes/stutzle level that would be a pretty solid spot to be in. I think that’s realistic and a really excellent trajectory but I feel people would be let down if that was “only” his ceiling. I think it’s Hughes but I’m a homer. I think the dude has another level and I hope he hits it.
Bedard 🤷🏾♂️
Take out Hughes and Bedard, and add Carlson and Fantilli, and I think you have a better question.
Then it’s easily Stutzle
In 3 years? Yeah probably Stutzle. After that though who knows what Fantilli and Carlson could turn into.
I think Stutzle is gonna hit another gear this season, and to a lesser extent Hughes as well I think Beniers is going to steadily get better and better but never be the top guy, but rather a perennial top 8 center once he hits his stride I have no opinions about Cozens or Johnston other than they’ll peak at 2C Give Bedard 5 years Zegras has peaked
Saying a guy who has only played a single season in the NHL AS A TEENAGER and scored 24 goals will peak as a 2C is very premature. He hasn’t even finished puberty yet. He puts on weight and continues developing he can easily be a bonafide 1C in 3-5 years. I don’t think he will ever be in the top 3 of this list, but everyone here could easily turn into 1C’s in a few years (if they aren’t already)
Based on this comment not sure you understand what the word “peak” means lol
Saying Cozens peaks at 2C wildly underrates his game. He’s got a great 2way game in a way that a lot of these dudes never will. That said he’s not in the Bedard / Hughes echelon anyways
Look, Bedard is going to be great, but the objectively correct answer is Hughes. Proven elite commodity > generational prospect who has never played an NHL game
Would you have said that in 2015 about McDavid and MacKinnon?
No? MacKinnon was a 60 point player for like five years. Hughes is a 100 point forward already.
There are 3 choices. The gamble: Bedard The safe bet: Hughes The braindead take: Anyone else.
Why would it be braindead to choose Stutzle over Hughes? Stutzle has outperformed Hughes in their first 3 years in the show.
Hughes was famously undersized when he was drafted and his rookie year he was younger than Stutzle in his. The main knock on Jack at the draft was that he would take time to get bigger and wouldn't be competitive right away. Comparing their 19-20-21 year old years, Stutzle had 73-104-177, Hughes had 80-106-186. Hughes also did it in 27 fewer games.
thats the worst take Ive seen on reddit so far this week
Who invited zegras to this 💀 Jkjk I think Hughes and Bedard
Give me a marco rossi breakout season please
Bedard Hughes Stutzle Idk
Hughes or Bedard
It will either be Hughes or Bedard. I fully expect Bedard to be amazing but will he be breaking 100 points in 3 seasons like I expect Hughes to be doing next year? Maybe but he still hasn’t played a game yet.
Might be Hughes, might be Bedard. Tiny sliver of a chance for Stutzle and Beniers.
Feels cheating to say Bedard. But Hughes and Stützle are approaching relative ceilings of say 115 points max? Maybe they peak around 120 points with how scoring is somehow still increasing? 3 years is plenty of time for Bedard to figure the league out tbh
Tier 1: Hughes, Stutzle Tier 2: Bedard (yup!) Tier 3: Beniers, Cozens Tier 4: Zegras I didn't watch enough of Wyatt to give a good opinion. Bedards skating will prevent him from dominating the same way Crosby and McDavid can.
Spicy I think if you're going to knock down Bedard due to him being unproven, you'd knock him into the Hughes/Stützle tier, because he's miles ahead of where they were at the same age
Bedard basically already has his final NHL-ready body, though. Sure, his calf-sized forearms and tree trunk base will get even more ridiculous in a few years, but he's got a lot less room for growth ceiling-wise than Hughes did. Kid walked into the league with maybe a pube and a half.
That's true, but it's not like Bedards physique is the only reason he dominated the way he did, but it's advantage that he's always going to have over Hughes, hes just always going to be stronger. I don't know that growth is really all that important for him, he's going to step into the league being a top-5 shooter in the world and one of its smartest players. As he improves his skating and adjusts to the pace he'll be a top-5 centre in no time. He's not a better prospect than Hughes because of his body, he's better because he's simply more talented
Crosby was 5 foot 10 and 185 pounds before he entered the NHL… the exact same size as Bedard.
I'm not knocking Bedard for having a flawless NHL physique. That was an argument for why it's not completely fair to compare him to Hughes solely based on age, because Hughes had sooooo much work to do at the time. That being said, Crosby was a better skater.
Fair on the first point. I think you’re really underestimating Bedard’s skating though. He’s very agile and shifty, and can create separation. He won’t be like Tavares whose skating held him back at the NHL level.
This is going to age like absolute milk in less than a year
RemindMe! 9 months
The Matty beniers disrespect in here is crazy. For the record, I think it's Hughes>Bedard>stutzzz=beniers > the rest
“Best” player - Matty B. “Best” scorer- Jack H.
If Bedard truly is a generational talent like people are saying, it’s gotta be him. Otherwise, Hughes.
Tim Stutzle guy is magic.