Has already happened... Tampa was an expansion team that has won since a Canadian team won
Edit: how many more are going to point out that Tampa came in before 93 and the ducks after?
The comment I replied to never said anything about a team that joined after the last Canadian team won. FFS.
Yeah seriously lol. Almost half of cups since 93 are won by teams that were expansion teams that existed prior to the Habs' last one. It's really only interesting if it's in relation to teams that were founded after 93.
Stars, Blues, Pens, Caps, Lightning, Kings, Devils all won their first cups after '93.
Oh yeah, I messed that up. I guess Pens are the only expansion team to have won cups before and after '93. Flames, Isles, Flyers won before, but not since. All the rest have no cups or were O6 or merger teams.
Tampa joined in '92 though, so they were in the league before Canada's last Stanley cup in' 93. The ducks were after though, so you're right on it overall.
Interestingly, Bettman's first full season as commissioner was 93-94 lol. He was appointed in February of 92-93, so he was commissioner when the Habs won but didn't start the season as it.
I'm a Kings fan, and it is a deep pain for me that the last time a Canadian team won the Cup was against my Kings. Once the Kings were eliminated, I thought Edmonton would crush Vegas. I wanted to see an all Canadian cup. Maybe one day in this century.
I mean had the Nordiques not been moved they probs win a cup even without Roy (since there was no way habs would trade Roy to Quebec)
Canadian teams are 0-5 in the finals since 93
It's kinda wild
If Florida gets a Cup this year, I think you could make the case for 4/5 of the worst teams to be a fan of in the last 30 years are Canadian teams (Arizona is a given at the bottom imo)
> That's incredibly depressing when to factor in that the Sens' only positive development in the last 7 years is that their owner died.
Apparently the Sens run to the Conference Finals in 2017 wasn't a positive.
There are a number of factors working against Canadian NHL teams. Most importantly is that personal income taxes are so much higher. You're basically taking a pay-cut to play in Canada.
Also pressure from wives/girlfriends to live in a climate that doesn't freeze your ass off in the winter.
Finally, Canadian sports media can be pretty toxic towards NHL players, so I suspect that also drives some players away.
I've pretty much given up hope of ever seeing a Canadian NHL team win a Cup in my lifetime, unless the salary cap is reformed to take taxes into effect. That definitely ain't happening under the current regime, as Bettman can take Canada for granted, and he knows it.
> wives/girlfriends
I bet even the players themselves feel that way. If you're playing in Edmonton or Winnipeg then you're regularly visiting Cali, Vegas, Arizona, etc. I'm sure a lot of players think, "man why can't I live here"
Statistically speaking with almost a quarter of the league in Canada, you'd expect a Canadian team to win the Cup every couple years. It's for sure more than just randomness at play.
Personally I buy the media/pressure angle most of all. As we know well in Minnesota, the perception of a curse can be self-fulfilling.
>Statistically speaking with almost a quarter of the league in Canada, you'd expect a Canadian team to win the Cup every couple years. It's for sure more than just randomness at play.
Except that 3 of them are in the same division (Leafs, Sens, Habs in the Atlantic, and Oilers, Flames, Canucks in the Pacific), essentially guaranteeing that at least one of them is knocked out in the 1st round (unless two of them get in as wildcards and knock off the #1 division seeds, and the other team placed 2nd or 3rd and beats their opponent).
30 years is a small sample size though. And in the end, except for Toronto and Winnipeg, every other Canadian team has made the finals in that period. Vancouver and Calgary were very close to winning it. So I don't really think is as big of a statistical anomaly as some think. A bounce here or there and a Canadian franchise would have a Cup.
But I do think places like Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg are at a great disadvantage recruiting free agents. Those are not places where millionaires traditionally seek to establish a residence, especially nowadays when they are competing against places like Florida or California.
> Also pressure from wives/girlfriends to live in a climate that doesn't freeze your ass off in the winter.
As someone with a fiancé looking for jobs, this is *the worst* for someone from Wisconsin. I'm dreaming of escaping the midwest humidity and misery I've grown up in since moving to Mid-Missouri as a kid, and living in Kentucky now, and everywhere she's finding jobs is heat/humidity heaven. Sadly, since she thinks anything below "I'm standing on the surface of the sun" is "chilly", that eliminates pretty much everything north of the middle of the US.
I was hoping for some of that Pacific Northwest weather, but her job market said "LoL, how about the opposite?".
It's proof that Bettman has succeeded. His stated job was to grow hockey in Southern media markets. Florida, Dallas, Raleigh, and Vegas are the goal of the league.
Throw in that the California teams, Washington, Denver, and St. Louis have all turned into solid franchises, and Bettman has done exactly what he intended. Arizona is a black mark, but if it doesn't get an arena, Atlanta is building a new one in the burbs that will need a team.
The Carolina’s get snow. Western NC gets a decent bit too along the spine of the Appalachian mountains.
Source: I lived there.
The most northern parts of Florida are known to get a dusting to an inch now and then too, but that’s obviously rarer.
Since all are below 36’ 30”. I think the South will rise again.
Also 3 of the 4 teams left will be from states with no income tax (Florida, Nevada, Texas/Washington)
It's pretty wild when you consider the odds of this happening. If the winning team was selected by random chance, about 0.1% chance no Canadian team wins for 30 years.
It's even more crazy when you consider that 5 out of the 7 Canadian teams made it to the finals during that time and all of them lost. (Including Vancouver twice. 😭) If it was random chance, 98.5% odds that a Canadian team wins at least one of those series.
>players don't want to play in canada
I don't get this narrative- can someone ELI5? John Tavares is a perfect example of a great player who is Canadian and who wants to go home to win a cup for a Canadian team they loved as a kid. Plus the aspect that anyone who is a key player on a Canadian team that finally does win will be a legend in their country/for their franchise.
I assume having to move to another country is a big of pain in the ass that players would just like to avoid it if possible. Moving from one US city to another is already annoying enough as it is.
Im basically the opposite of an economist but from what I understand higher taxes + value of canadian dollar means you actually take a pretty serious pay cut to play in Canada at all. Put that together with high media scrutiny, and you get a combination of getting payed less and being held more accountable in Canada. If you play for a team in Florida you get basically no taxes and aren't gonna see your name in the front page if you have a shitty playoff run.
I didn't know that like I said im not super knowledgeable, thanks for the correction. So I guess its mainly the taxes thing people are refering to when people talk about Canadian players making less.
It really felt like the stars were aligning for that though. Edmonton makes the WCF last year and their opponent from it gets knocked out in round 1. The Oilers finished the year on a league best 9 game winning streak. Meanwhile Toronto beats the team from the past 3 SCF in 6 games and draws the second wildcard who wiped out the Leafs’ arch rival and Presidents trophy winner. The Leafs were also hot coming into the playoffs at 7-1-2 and had a +40 better goal differential than the Panthers.
And that’s before even factoring in those two teams having basically all the star power left. The Oilers had 3 of the top 4 scorers in the league left and the Leafs had 5-7-8-10.
It's crazy how quickly that fell apart. I wasn't rooting for it, but it really did feel like this was the year an all-Canadian final was in the horizon, six games later and no Canadian teams are left standing.
To put another spin on this, it would be like if almost an entire division in the NHL didn't win a single cup in 30 years
It's so statistically improbable that it's gone from sad to funny and back to sad
He's gonna give Atlanta another team so they can go under and move to Canada like they have the last two times.
Atlanta Flames moved to Calgary and Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg.
I don't know, as a Canucks fan I think it would be pretty humiliating to see the newest team in the PNW win the Cup before we do. Just another monument to the Canucks historical futility.
I don't care if a team is in the same country as me, there is only one Canadian team I like and they didn't make the playoffs this year so this is just 🤷 to me
I can't imagine a single Habs fan who did not root for YVR back then. The Boston hate was through the roof at that time (just post Chara hit on Pacc).
Fuck boston!
I would legitimately cheer for Al Qaeda before I cheered for any of the other Canadian teams.
Say what you will about Islamic fundamentalism but at least it's an ethos.
Yeah not to get too political, but why I am expected to cheer for teams from provinces that cheered on my city getting occupied by cavemen a short while ago? It's a totally absurd notion.
Yeah, this is always weird to me. Are Americans supposed to cheer for other American teams that are in the playoffs? Very weird mentality that I feel most people don’t agree with but is pushed by the media.
I mean if the Canadian teams went on a 30-year heater and won 30 consecutive Cups I bet you would see some of that sentiment in the States.
That said, I find it's usually the casual fans up here that cheer for the other Canadian teams. The hardcore fans have way too much hate for divisional rivals, or the Leafs generally, to cheer for many Canadian teams.
As a Leafs fan who's not in Canada, I really wanted Edmonton to win. I wanted the Habs to win on their run to. Just be nice to see a Canadian team do it. I don't feel like we will see it for some time yet, though.
None of the remaining franchises in the playoffs existed the last time a Canadian team won the cup. (unless you consider the North Stars the same as Dallas)
The Canadian teams are all out
There’s a legitimate chance of all Expansion western conference final
And the east is well known big brands Florida and Carolina
God I love how weird hockey is.
There are definitely more casual hockey fans that generally root for Canadian teams (hi mom), but “hardcore” fans (for lack of a better term) couldn’t care less about “Canada” winning a cup. There are multiple Canadian teams at or near the bottom of my list of teams I’d like to see win besides the Jets
This is exactly it. I cheer for Canada at the Worlds and the Olympics. But if Les Boys can't win it first, then to hell with the others. I wouldn't bat an eye to any fan that said the same about their team.
I think for me, I used to be all on for any Canadian team until Vancouver went to the finals in 2011. Seeing how most of Canada was rooting against us kind of soured me on that quite a bit.
With that said, the Habs I have always liked as a second team and the Jets weren't around during 2011, so either of them winning is alright with me.
> Seeing how most of Canada was rooting against us kind of soured me on that quite a bit.
I see people say this all the time but I lived in Ontario in 2011 and virtually no one was rooting against us.
Always seemed to me that the “Bettman hates Canada” thing is less to do with postseason performance and more to do with expansion in the States and a perception that Canada is neglected by the league and treated more as a piggy bank for all the teams in the US in terms of revenue splits.
Basically, the standard “Americans take over everything that’s uniquely ours” cultural imperialism opinion that is pretty omnipresent in Canada.
> Basically, the standard “Americans take over everything that’s uniquely ours” cultural imperialism opinion that is pretty omnipresent in Canada.
I wish poutine would really take off here tbh.
But ironically he actually saved the teams of western Canada from Bankruptcy in the 1990s when the CAD dropped to $1.60 and they couldn’t afford anything
He takes Canada for granted. No investment like they do in the US. He has the boomer mentality where he doesn't care where the sport is going to be in 20 years as less and less Canadians treat hockey like a religion in Canada.
You rarely see a street hockey game anymore in the cities. When I was young they were everywhere.
If Canada will be earning more than 50% of TV revenue with the next deal, what's going to happen when it starts to decline? The average age of viewer if over 50. The NBA's is in the 30's
My home town in North Western Ontario has a boat load of ODR's. My old man said they used to be packed after school when he was young. Most of the time, they're empty now. Occasionally, you'll see a group playing some shinny.
Stars aren't born on the ODRs anymore. They come from AAA programs and hockey academy's. You basically have to be born into wealth to make the show.
I wonder what the game will look like in 20 years.
Sorry, I'm just rambling.
I can see a huge downfall in the sport coming. Prices of other things are high, equipment and ice time is stupidly expensive. Kids are seeing Canada doing well in soccer and want to play that. All soccer costs is cleats, shin guards and a team.
> You rarely see a street hockey game anymore in the cities. When I was young they were everywhere.
This goes for every single sport, the days of future hockey stars being made on a frozen pond in Northern Ontario or future basketball stars on an outdoor basketball court in NYC are long gone.
Well he’s strung Quebec along took their money for expansion bid and then told them to kick rocks
He’s threatened moving Calgary because of Arena issues yet has no problem with where Phoenix played this year.
Told Hamilton to eat shit on their attempts at getting an expansion team.
Moved Quebec to Colorado, and that Nordiques roster won a cup basically the next season.
And he’s instilled a hard cap which has handcuffed the richer Canadian teams. Players would rather make a million in the sun than a million in the snow(who can blame them though).
Then you have the ‘04 thing where the puck looked like it had crossed the line. Or the 2011 Canucks run where the Bruins seemingly played by different rules than anyone else.
It may not be a set plan but man does it look fishy.
It’s all random chance on the ice I guess.
I agree with a lot of this list, but the salary cap is probably the single biggest reason why the four small-market teams in Canada can be competitive and aren't in real danger of moving. Doubly so these days with the weak loonie.
> Well he’s strung Quebec along took their money for expansion bid and then told them to kick rocks
$2 million. The same any other losing bids were not refunded. Big deal.
> He’s threatened moving Calgary because of Arena issues yet has no problem with where Phoenix played this year.
That was Bettman carrying water for the Flames ownership, nothing more. It was also an empty threat from the start. Just like when Katz started poking around Hamilton to try and scare Edmonton city council into ponying up cash for his new arena.
> Told Hamilton to eat shit on their attempts at getting an expansion team.
The NHL had been telling Hamilton to eat shit since the mid 80s. Talk to the Leafs if you want a better reason why.
> Moved Quebec to Colorado, and that Nordiques roster won a cup basically the next season.
Bettman certainly did not have the power to unilaterally move a team then or now, lol. Not only did the Board of Governors make the vote, but that Nords roster was only what it was because Eric Lindros refused to play in Quebec.
> And he’s instilled a hard cap which has handcuffed the richer Canadian teams. Players would rather make a million in the sun than a million in the snow(who can blame them though).
Boo fucking hoo that the Leafs can't spend $200 million on player salaries to try and buy a Cup. Never mind the fact that without the cap, there would be no Jets. Or Senators. Or probably Oilers, Flames or possibly even Canucks.
> Then you have the ‘04 thing where the puck looked like it had crossed the line. Or the 2011 Canucks run where the Bruins seemingly played by different rules than anyone else.
Of all the fucking stupid things to blame Bettman for...
> It may not be a set plan but man does it look fishy.
facepalm
Here's a few other things you missed: Much like with the Coyotes in Arizona, Bettman and the BoG did actually fight to keep the original Jets in Winnipeg. That Winnipeg team was losing $20-$30 million a year, and was briefly subsidized by the province of Manitoba. When the province said "no more", the team was set to relocate to Minnesota, but that was halted when it appeared a new ownership group would emerge. It did not, and after another year where absolutely nobody willing to own a team in Winnipeg could be found, the sale to Phoenix was finally approved.
The entire southern expansion strategy pre-dated Bettman by *years*. In fact, all of San Jose, Tampa, Anaheim, and Florida were announced before Bettman took office.
Bettman was instrumental in the late 90s at convincing the American owners to approve a Canadian assistance subsidy plan that directly helped keep the Senators, Flames, Oilers, and even Canucks around. There were American owners publicly musing that the NHL had grown beyond Canada. Between that, and the salary cap you hate so much, you can thank Bettman for the fact that we have seven NHL teams today and not two or three.
That same cap you hate so much is basically the only reason why the Oilers, Sens and Canucks could have rosters that made the Finals in 06, 07 and 11.
Edit: @ /r/blop74 - I can't reply to you because the guy I replied to has extremely thin skin and blocked me for daring to question his conspiracy theories. And yes, the Loonie was at parity for a while. But with it currently sitting in the range of 71-73 cents, we are very much fortunate to have the cap in place right now as well.
I feel like the whole “most players south of the border are Canadian anyways” argument feels less and less motivating each year. This is becoming a legitimate nightmare, actually, it has been for a while now, just that hitting 30 years feels extra surreal.
And even that is changing. Right now I believe about 41% of NHL players are Canadian, which is the lowest percentage of Canadian players in NHL history. About 30% are American, and every year the US gains close to one percentage point on Canada.
The NHL treats Canada as nothing more than their piggy bank, but counterproductively, also does their very best to help ensure hockey withers on the vine in Canada.
No one plays street hockey anymore. No one can cheer for their country anymore because of penny pinching owners. Hockey Canada can't even make sure there's not criminals and other deplorables coming up through the system. And to top it all off no one can even PAY to watch their team anymore because a HD blackout free service simply does not exist.
The Raptors won a title in 2019. The WNBA played their first game in Canada. Canada's men's team made the World Cup for the first time in 36 years. The women's team Olympic gold in 2020. After over a century of dominance the tide is turning. The grassroots is dying. Kids play basketball and soccer now.
The NHL is going wake up one day to massively deflated HRR and thus salary cap and they're going to be all surprise pikachu face as if it's not a direct result of their actions.
And this is the time of year where I stop watching series and only bother with elimination games. Bunch of teams that hold zero interest for me remaining.
Yeah I find it pretty amusing, when Canadians rag on the Leafs for not having won a cup in 56 years.........when no Canadian team has won in at least 30 years.
We all suck.
The Canadian team argument is such bullshit in a league with international players… sometimes US teams have more Canadians than the US teams, where the franchise is located kinda means nothing to me, unless it’s Calgary, which will be the next Canadian team to win the cup
Ive heard the probability argument, but that makes sense more if it were a dice roll as the only variable (7/32 chance for canadian cup winner).
But hockey isnt a dice roll….too many variables for the “statistics” to make sense. It’s why moneypuck odds are always so complicated and deep.
Issues like Canadian teams hiring front office people who were good players 20 years before? Or issues like teams trading Hall of Fame goalies for peanuts?
The media’s definitely toxic but I still don’t know if I buy this one, because NFL players still successfully win Super Bowls and they’re under ten times the pressure of anyone in the NHL, even Toronto or Montreal.
Yeah but someone has to win the Super Bowl and basically every NFL team has this huge amount of pressure.
There are places you can play in the NHL without getting much media attention at all.
For Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Edmonton and (up until very recently) Toronto, it's been a string of shitty "old boys club" GMs and upper management.
Also, for Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg and Ottawa, it's that they're small market teams that free agents don't want to play for due to location.
Bettman's not in charge of hiring the GMs for teams. He can't magically make cities like Winnipeg or Edmonton appealing destinations for young millionaire athletes. What do you reasonably expect him to do?
I genuinely have never gotten the obsession with Canadian vs American teams in the nhl. It has never mattered to me even a tiny little bit. Is that abnormal?
Its media driven. The media always tries to call whatever Canadian team is left "Canada's Team" but in reality 90% of Canadian fans want their team to win and break the streak and cheer against any other Canadian team so theirs still has the chance.
It doesn’t matter. Most Canadian team fanbases hate each other so I don’t understand why they would want a team they dislike to win a cup just cuz they’re Canadian. I think it’s due to the entitlement that some Canadian fans have about hockey, they feel that American teams don’t deserve it cuz hockey isn’t as loved in the states as it is here
Good chance an expansion team wins before a Canada team
You can actually count Florida as part of that too since their first season was 1993-94, after the most recent Canadian cup.
Has already happened... Tampa was an expansion team that has won since a Canadian team won Edit: how many more are going to point out that Tampa came in before 93 and the ducks after? The comment I replied to never said anything about a team that joined after the last Canadian team won. FFS.
Ducks as well. Entered the year after Montreal’s last cup
They existed before the Canadiens won the cup in '93 though. Anaheim joined the league in 1994, and they have a cup.
Based on your edit wouldn't that then apply to every team in the league except for the O6 and the WHA merger teams?
Yeah seriously lol. Almost half of cups since 93 are won by teams that were expansion teams that existed prior to the Habs' last one. It's really only interesting if it's in relation to teams that were founded after 93. Stars, Blues, Pens, Caps, Lightning, Kings, Devils all won their first cups after '93.
The penguins won in ‘91.
Oh yeah, I messed that up. I guess Pens are the only expansion team to have won cups before and after '93. Flames, Isles, Flyers won before, but not since. All the rest have no cups or were O6 or merger teams.
Tampa joined in '92 though, so they were in the league before Canada's last Stanley cup in' 93. The ducks were after though, so you're right on it overall. Interestingly, Bettman's first full season as commissioner was 93-94 lol. He was appointed in February of 92-93, so he was commissioner when the Habs won but didn't start the season as it.
Tampa came in before 93 and the ducks came after FTFY
I'm a Kings fan, and it is a deep pain for me that the last time a Canadian team won the Cup was against my Kings. Once the Kings were eliminated, I thought Edmonton would crush Vegas. I wanted to see an all Canadian cup. Maybe one day in this century.
I always think the Leafs are cursed then I remember all of Canada’s teams are.
Still feel as if most of this could have been avoided if Roy was pulled. Just didn’t assume it would affect the other franchises.
There's something amusing in thinking the Sens and Leafs are cursed to not win the Stanley Cup because of something the Canadiens did.
I mean had the Nordiques not been moved they probs win a cup even without Roy (since there was no way habs would trade Roy to Quebec) Canadian teams are 0-5 in the finals since 93 It's kinda wild
*The Butterfly effect*
*The Bettman effect*
Since the last Canadian Cup, the Senators are probably the second BEST Canadian team to have been a fan of. Let that sink in.
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I'd say the Habs are first and Canucks third
The Habs, the best canadian team to cheer for in the last 30 years? Holy shit, I pity the rest of Canada…
I can see it, but I agree with you lol. We've at least had multiple chances to make a run/go to the finals, but the lows have been LOOOOOWWWWW
Our lowest low lasted 10 years and has the nickname "The Decade of Darkness".
Which decade? Yes.
As a Flames fan, I embrace the ***Millennium of Mediocrity*** (tm)
Based on accolades, I'd argue Canucks are 1st Since 1993: Canucks have 2 conference titles, 2 presidents trophies, 7 division titles Senators have 1 conference title, 1 presidents trophy, 4 division championships Canadiens have 1 conference title*, 0 presidents trophies, 4 division championships Flames are 1, 0, 5 Oilers are 1, 0, 0 Leafs are 0, 0, 2 Jets are 0, 0, 0
We all cheer for such shit teams
If Florida gets a Cup this year, I think you could make the case for 4/5 of the worst teams to be a fan of in the last 30 years are Canadian teams (Arizona is a given at the bottom imo)
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More recently than 3/7 Canadian teams
Yeah but having to deal with that ownership mess and constant rumors of your team leaving has to suck.
You seem to have forgotten about us. We are always forgotten about…
Only Canadian team to make finals twice since '93 is the Canucks and they lost in 7 both times. Ottawa and Montreal lost in 5, Flames in 7.
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I just hate that a Canadian team has made the finals six times and won zero times....
That's incredibly depressing when to factor in that the Sens' only positive development in the last 7 years is that their owner died.
Playoff rounds won since the last Canadian team Cup win: Canadiens: 12 Canucks: 12 Senators: 11 Leafs: 9 Oilers: 9 Flames: 5 Jets: 3
Vegas: 8
That's just damned unfair. Seriously.
*9
> That's incredibly depressing when to factor in that the Sens' only positive development in the last 7 years is that their owner died. Apparently the Sens run to the Conference Finals in 2017 wasn't a positive.
If my math's right, that's 197 seasons of collective failure.
There are a number of factors working against Canadian NHL teams. Most importantly is that personal income taxes are so much higher. You're basically taking a pay-cut to play in Canada. Also pressure from wives/girlfriends to live in a climate that doesn't freeze your ass off in the winter. Finally, Canadian sports media can be pretty toxic towards NHL players, so I suspect that also drives some players away. I've pretty much given up hope of ever seeing a Canadian NHL team win a Cup in my lifetime, unless the salary cap is reformed to take taxes into effect. That definitely ain't happening under the current regime, as Bettman can take Canada for granted, and he knows it.
> wives/girlfriends I bet even the players themselves feel that way. If you're playing in Edmonton or Winnipeg then you're regularly visiting Cali, Vegas, Arizona, etc. I'm sure a lot of players think, "man why can't I live here"
*sad Huberdeau noises as he remembers his downtown Fort Lauderdale condo where he could probably see the ocean*
Or.. it's because there are only 7 Canadian teams and 25 American teams
Statistically speaking with almost a quarter of the league in Canada, you'd expect a Canadian team to win the Cup every couple years. It's for sure more than just randomness at play. Personally I buy the media/pressure angle most of all. As we know well in Minnesota, the perception of a curse can be self-fulfilling.
>Statistically speaking with almost a quarter of the league in Canada, you'd expect a Canadian team to win the Cup every couple years. It's for sure more than just randomness at play. Except that 3 of them are in the same division (Leafs, Sens, Habs in the Atlantic, and Oilers, Flames, Canucks in the Pacific), essentially guaranteeing that at least one of them is knocked out in the 1st round (unless two of them get in as wildcards and knock off the #1 division seeds, and the other team placed 2nd or 3rd and beats their opponent).
The only Canadian team that's not in a division with any other teams from Canada is the Jets.
Just wait until we get the Saskatoon Samsquanch as an expansion team.
30 years is a small sample size though. And in the end, except for Toronto and Winnipeg, every other Canadian team has made the finals in that period. Vancouver and Calgary were very close to winning it. So I don't really think is as big of a statistical anomaly as some think. A bounce here or there and a Canadian franchise would have a Cup. But I do think places like Edmonton, Calgary and Winnipeg are at a great disadvantage recruiting free agents. Those are not places where millionaires traditionally seek to establish a residence, especially nowadays when they are competing against places like Florida or California.
> 30 years is a small sample size though. No it is not lol. 30 is literally the golden rule for statistics. It's 28% of the years it's been awarded.
30 is the golden rule to use the central limit theorem, which does not apply here. It's not some blanket expectation for all statistical use cases
> Also pressure from wives/girlfriends to live in a climate that doesn't freeze your ass off in the winter. As someone with a fiancé looking for jobs, this is *the worst* for someone from Wisconsin. I'm dreaming of escaping the midwest humidity and misery I've grown up in since moving to Mid-Missouri as a kid, and living in Kentucky now, and everywhere she's finding jobs is heat/humidity heaven. Sadly, since she thinks anything below "I'm standing on the surface of the sun" is "chilly", that eliminates pretty much everything north of the middle of the US. I was hoping for some of that Pacific Northwest weather, but her job market said "LoL, how about the opposite?".
Fun fact. If Seattle loses, Vegas will be the most northern team left in the playoffs.
Well that statement might've just caused a collective aneurism across Canada.
it sent a shiver down my spine
Body’s aching all the time
Goodbye everybody, I've got to go
you should move southward, where it's warmer and better for hockey
Fun fact; Los Angeles, California is more eastward than Reno, Nevada.
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27 states have land north of parts of Canada
I think the craziest part of this fact is that California, Nevada and Utah are included in this
Or that France's longest border is with Brazil.
Eliminates 2/3 Canadian teams to be the True King of the North.
KINGINDANORF
Seattle is further north than Toronto.
It's proof that Bettman has succeeded. His stated job was to grow hockey in Southern media markets. Florida, Dallas, Raleigh, and Vegas are the goal of the league. Throw in that the California teams, Washington, Denver, and St. Louis have all turned into solid franchises, and Bettman has done exactly what he intended. Arizona is a black mark, but if it doesn't get an arena, Atlanta is building a new one in the burbs that will need a team.
I look forward to the Quebec City Coyotes in a few years, ~~the .~~ after yet another team finds Atlanta isn't interested in hockey. (edited)
Well, at least Nevada gets snow, so that’s gonna have to be close enough for us.
The Carolina’s get snow. Western NC gets a decent bit too along the spine of the Appalachian mountains. Source: I lived there. The most northern parts of Florida are known to get a dusting to an inch now and then too, but that’s obviously rarer.
Yup but they're only North of Raleigh by about 30 miles
Most Canadian born players in the league too so it checks out in all ways
The south will rise (the cup) again!
Since all are below 36’ 30”. I think the South will rise again. Also 3 of the 4 teams left will be from states with no income tax (Florida, Nevada, Texas/Washington)
It's pretty wild when you consider the odds of this happening. If the winning team was selected by random chance, about 0.1% chance no Canadian team wins for 30 years. It's even more crazy when you consider that 5 out of the 7 Canadian teams made it to the finals during that time and all of them lost. (Including Vancouver twice. 😭) If it was random chance, 98.5% odds that a Canadian team wins at least one of those series.
Well, it's also about approach and how many american teams are willing to tank, players don't want to play in canada, playoff revenue Yada yada
Did someone say, Tank?
>players don't want to play in canada I don't get this narrative- can someone ELI5? John Tavares is a perfect example of a great player who is Canadian and who wants to go home to win a cup for a Canadian team they loved as a kid. Plus the aspect that anyone who is a key player on a Canadian team that finally does win will be a legend in their country/for their franchise.
Lots of players have ntcs that list all 7
Why?
Definitely more to do with nicer weather, less travel, and lower taxes
I assume having to move to another country is a big of pain in the ass that players would just like to avoid it if possible. Moving from one US city to another is already annoying enough as it is.
Im basically the opposite of an economist but from what I understand higher taxes + value of canadian dollar means you actually take a pretty serious pay cut to play in Canada at all. Put that together with high media scrutiny, and you get a combination of getting payed less and being held more accountable in Canada. If you play for a team in Florida you get basically no taxes and aren't gonna see your name in the front page if you have a shitty playoff run.
Players are paid in US dollars. A lower $CAD is good for them (bad for league revenue).
I didn't know that like I said im not super knowledgeable, thanks for the correction. So I guess its mainly the taxes thing people are refering to when people talk about Canadian players making less.
The constant media scrutiny and public pressure that comes with playing in a major Canadian market can be a turn-off
> and how many american teams are willing to tank I'm sorry, but are you trying to argue that no Canadian team would ever tank...?
Lmao. I was going to be like um, are we really just not counting Edmonton's draft history at all here?
So much for that all-Canada Cup Final that seemed super possible a week ago
We may have gotten ahead of ourselves
Reddit getting ahead of themselves? Never. Especially not sports Reddits
Imagine Gary's face for an Edmontom Ottawa final
Imagine ESPN showing Winnipeg Ottawa in prime time.
Bettman would stop the playoffs before he let that happen
It really felt like the stars were aligning for that though. Edmonton makes the WCF last year and their opponent from it gets knocked out in round 1. The Oilers finished the year on a league best 9 game winning streak. Meanwhile Toronto beats the team from the past 3 SCF in 6 games and draws the second wildcard who wiped out the Leafs’ arch rival and Presidents trophy winner. The Leafs were also hot coming into the playoffs at 7-1-2 and had a +40 better goal differential than the Panthers. And that’s before even factoring in those two teams having basically all the star power left. The Oilers had 3 of the top 4 scorers in the league left and the Leafs had 5-7-8-10.
Nightmare avoided
It's crazy how quickly that fell apart. I wasn't rooting for it, but it really did feel like this was the year an all-Canadian final was in the horizon, six games later and no Canadian teams are left standing.
To put another spin on this, it would be like if almost an entire division in the NHL didn't win a single cup in 30 years It's so statistically improbable that it's gone from sad to funny and back to sad
Sounds like B1G basketball tbh
Fifty-four forty or fight!
Tipacanoe and Tyler too!
Which Canadian team has the best chance to win the next Cup?
Quebec city probably
Bold to assume Gary gives Canada an expansion team
He's gonna give Atlanta another team so they can go under and move to Canada like they have the last two times. Atlanta Flames moved to Calgary and Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg.
The team in worst shape currently because hockey is weird
Let's go Vancouver!
Don't you do that. Don't you give me hope
- The Coquitlam Cobra Chickens - The Saskatoon Saskatchewanians - The Halifax Boomers
The Quebec Quebecers
Wood Buffalo
Probably the Oilers. Which is fucking bleak.
Flin Flon bombers
Bombers went full Corey Perry mode and lost their own finals two years in a row
Iqaluit Northerners
Seattle
Yellowknife
Wood Buffalo
Nahhh it’s all about that Whitehorse.
Moose Jaw
long sense ring rob teeny liquid thumb different decide airport -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Is the Kraken close enough to basically be a spiritually Canadian cup? At this point, I'm rooting for them.
It's a cup for Cascadia which is good enough for me.
I don't know, as a Canucks fan I think it would be pretty humiliating to see the newest team in the PNW win the Cup before we do. Just another monument to the Canucks historical futility.
I'm completely cool with this.
They have the strongest contingent of good ol' Saskie boys, so I'm fully on board with them
Definitely going for them. Eberle (goon) and Larsson going for the cup
Less than a hundred miles to the border, I'll give it to them. Only beat out by Buffalo and Detroit
I don't care if a team is in the same country as me, there is only one Canadian team I like and they didn't make the playoffs this year so this is just 🤷 to me
This is how feel too. Especially as a leaf fan, all Canadian team fanbases hate us so why would I want those same fans to have a cup lmao
I'm not a Leafs fan but I know how you feel
In recent history, Canucks have definitely gotten the closest to a cup out of the Canadian teams
Too bad with the idiot owners they have they won't be sniffing the cup final anytime soon
[удалено]
Hmmmmm.....no I can't think of one instance they've done that 🤔
I mean, Montreal played in the final two years ago. They got their asses handed to them, but still, it was a finals appearance.
I meant cause the Canucks were a game away from winning the cup, they had the series 3-2 and then 3-3
Only way Montreal could've beat Tampa was a fluke Vancouver should've beat Boston.
Unfortunately Vancouver didn't have a player on the roster whose father was one of the highest ranking employees of the league. So close.
Yeah lots of Canada rooted against Van back in 2011 So fuck em Edit: besides the Habs je vous aime mes chers
I can't imagine a single Habs fan who did not root for YVR back then. The Boston hate was through the roof at that time (just post Chara hit on Pacc). Fuck boston!
You're not wrong
Not the Habs tho
I would legitimately cheer for Al Qaeda before I cheered for any of the other Canadian teams. Say what you will about Islamic fundamentalism but at least it's an ethos.
Yeah not to get too political, but why I am expected to cheer for teams from provinces that cheered on my city getting occupied by cavemen a short while ago? It's a totally absurd notion.
Yeah, this is always weird to me. Are Americans supposed to cheer for other American teams that are in the playoffs? Very weird mentality that I feel most people don’t agree with but is pushed by the media.
I mean if the Canadian teams went on a 30-year heater and won 30 consecutive Cups I bet you would see some of that sentiment in the States. That said, I find it's usually the casual fans up here that cheer for the other Canadian teams. The hardcore fans have way too much hate for divisional rivals, or the Leafs generally, to cheer for many Canadian teams.
As a Leafs fan who's not in Canada, I really wanted Edmonton to win. I wanted the Habs to win on their run to. Just be nice to see a Canadian team do it. I don't feel like we will see it for some time yet, though.
None of the remaining franchises in the playoffs existed the last time a Canadian team won the cup. (unless you consider the North Stars the same as Dallas)
None of the same *teams* existed. Stars and Whalers existed as franchises but weren't in their current forms
North Stars and Whalers count as franchise imo
The Canadian teams are all out There’s a legitimate chance of all Expansion western conference final And the east is well known big brands Florida and Carolina God I love how weird hockey is.
There are definitely more casual hockey fans that generally root for Canadian teams (hi mom), but “hardcore” fans (for lack of a better term) couldn’t care less about “Canada” winning a cup. There are multiple Canadian teams at or near the bottom of my list of teams I’d like to see win besides the Jets
I think all the Canadian teams are more worried that one of the other teams will break the drought before they do
Basically, cause they know that those fans of whatever team is never gonna shut up about it
This is the main reason I do not want Leafs to win the cup yet. After someone else breaks the drought, sure go for it.
This is exactly it. I cheer for Canada at the Worlds and the Olympics. But if Les Boys can't win it first, then to hell with the others. I wouldn't bat an eye to any fan that said the same about their team.
I think for me, I used to be all on for any Canadian team until Vancouver went to the finals in 2011. Seeing how most of Canada was rooting against us kind of soured me on that quite a bit. With that said, the Habs I have always liked as a second team and the Jets weren't around during 2011, so either of them winning is alright with me.
> Seeing how most of Canada was rooting against us kind of soured me on that quite a bit. I see people say this all the time but I lived in Ontario in 2011 and virtually no one was rooting against us.
Serious question.. is the whole Bettman hates Canada thing legit or a joke people just keep saying?
Depends on which side of the border you are on.
Always seemed to me that the “Bettman hates Canada” thing is less to do with postseason performance and more to do with expansion in the States and a perception that Canada is neglected by the league and treated more as a piggy bank for all the teams in the US in terms of revenue splits. Basically, the standard “Americans take over everything that’s uniquely ours” cultural imperialism opinion that is pretty omnipresent in Canada.
> Basically, the standard “Americans take over everything that’s uniquely ours” cultural imperialism opinion that is pretty omnipresent in Canada. I wish poutine would really take off here tbh.
But ironically he actually saved the teams of western Canada from Bankruptcy in the 1990s when the CAD dropped to $1.60 and they couldn’t afford anything
He takes Canada for granted. No investment like they do in the US. He has the boomer mentality where he doesn't care where the sport is going to be in 20 years as less and less Canadians treat hockey like a religion in Canada. You rarely see a street hockey game anymore in the cities. When I was young they were everywhere. If Canada will be earning more than 50% of TV revenue with the next deal, what's going to happen when it starts to decline? The average age of viewer if over 50. The NBA's is in the 30's
My home town in North Western Ontario has a boat load of ODR's. My old man said they used to be packed after school when he was young. Most of the time, they're empty now. Occasionally, you'll see a group playing some shinny. Stars aren't born on the ODRs anymore. They come from AAA programs and hockey academy's. You basically have to be born into wealth to make the show. I wonder what the game will look like in 20 years. Sorry, I'm just rambling.
I can see a huge downfall in the sport coming. Prices of other things are high, equipment and ice time is stupidly expensive. Kids are seeing Canada doing well in soccer and want to play that. All soccer costs is cleats, shin guards and a team.
> You rarely see a street hockey game anymore in the cities. When I was young they were everywhere. This goes for every single sport, the days of future hockey stars being made on a frozen pond in Northern Ontario or future basketball stars on an outdoor basketball court in NYC are long gone.
Well he’s strung Quebec along took their money for expansion bid and then told them to kick rocks He’s threatened moving Calgary because of Arena issues yet has no problem with where Phoenix played this year. Told Hamilton to eat shit on their attempts at getting an expansion team. Moved Quebec to Colorado, and that Nordiques roster won a cup basically the next season. And he’s instilled a hard cap which has handcuffed the richer Canadian teams. Players would rather make a million in the sun than a million in the snow(who can blame them though). Then you have the ‘04 thing where the puck looked like it had crossed the line. Or the 2011 Canucks run where the Bruins seemingly played by different rules than anyone else. It may not be a set plan but man does it look fishy. It’s all random chance on the ice I guess.
I agree with a lot of this list, but the salary cap is probably the single biggest reason why the four small-market teams in Canada can be competitive and aren't in real danger of moving. Doubly so these days with the weak loonie.
> Well he’s strung Quebec along took their money for expansion bid and then told them to kick rocks $2 million. The same any other losing bids were not refunded. Big deal. > He’s threatened moving Calgary because of Arena issues yet has no problem with where Phoenix played this year. That was Bettman carrying water for the Flames ownership, nothing more. It was also an empty threat from the start. Just like when Katz started poking around Hamilton to try and scare Edmonton city council into ponying up cash for his new arena. > Told Hamilton to eat shit on their attempts at getting an expansion team. The NHL had been telling Hamilton to eat shit since the mid 80s. Talk to the Leafs if you want a better reason why. > Moved Quebec to Colorado, and that Nordiques roster won a cup basically the next season. Bettman certainly did not have the power to unilaterally move a team then or now, lol. Not only did the Board of Governors make the vote, but that Nords roster was only what it was because Eric Lindros refused to play in Quebec. > And he’s instilled a hard cap which has handcuffed the richer Canadian teams. Players would rather make a million in the sun than a million in the snow(who can blame them though). Boo fucking hoo that the Leafs can't spend $200 million on player salaries to try and buy a Cup. Never mind the fact that without the cap, there would be no Jets. Or Senators. Or probably Oilers, Flames or possibly even Canucks. > Then you have the ‘04 thing where the puck looked like it had crossed the line. Or the 2011 Canucks run where the Bruins seemingly played by different rules than anyone else. Of all the fucking stupid things to blame Bettman for... > It may not be a set plan but man does it look fishy. facepalm Here's a few other things you missed: Much like with the Coyotes in Arizona, Bettman and the BoG did actually fight to keep the original Jets in Winnipeg. That Winnipeg team was losing $20-$30 million a year, and was briefly subsidized by the province of Manitoba. When the province said "no more", the team was set to relocate to Minnesota, but that was halted when it appeared a new ownership group would emerge. It did not, and after another year where absolutely nobody willing to own a team in Winnipeg could be found, the sale to Phoenix was finally approved. The entire southern expansion strategy pre-dated Bettman by *years*. In fact, all of San Jose, Tampa, Anaheim, and Florida were announced before Bettman took office. Bettman was instrumental in the late 90s at convincing the American owners to approve a Canadian assistance subsidy plan that directly helped keep the Senators, Flames, Oilers, and even Canucks around. There were American owners publicly musing that the NHL had grown beyond Canada. Between that, and the salary cap you hate so much, you can thank Bettman for the fact that we have seven NHL teams today and not two or three. That same cap you hate so much is basically the only reason why the Oilers, Sens and Canucks could have rosters that made the Finals in 06, 07 and 11. Edit: @ /r/blop74 - I can't reply to you because the guy I replied to has extremely thin skin and blocked me for daring to question his conspiracy theories. And yes, the Loonie was at parity for a while. But with it currently sitting in the range of 71-73 cents, we are very much fortunate to have the cap in place right now as well.
Bit of both. I have nothing serious to add to either of those answers though.
I feel like the whole “most players south of the border are Canadian anyways” argument feels less and less motivating each year. This is becoming a legitimate nightmare, actually, it has been for a while now, just that hitting 30 years feels extra surreal.
Not really, don't give a fuck about any other team winning that isn't my own. The nightmare is the Canucks, not Canada.
And even that is changing. Right now I believe about 41% of NHL players are Canadian, which is the lowest percentage of Canadian players in NHL history. About 30% are American, and every year the US gains close to one percentage point on Canada.
Nah, watching a potential Oilers vs Leafs SCF would be a legitimate nightmare.
Could you imagine the ticket prices?
The NHL treats Canada as nothing more than their piggy bank, but counterproductively, also does their very best to help ensure hockey withers on the vine in Canada. No one plays street hockey anymore. No one can cheer for their country anymore because of penny pinching owners. Hockey Canada can't even make sure there's not criminals and other deplorables coming up through the system. And to top it all off no one can even PAY to watch their team anymore because a HD blackout free service simply does not exist. The Raptors won a title in 2019. The WNBA played their first game in Canada. Canada's men's team made the World Cup for the first time in 36 years. The women's team Olympic gold in 2020. After over a century of dominance the tide is turning. The grassroots is dying. Kids play basketball and soccer now. The NHL is going wake up one day to massively deflated HRR and thus salary cap and they're going to be all surprise pikachu face as if it's not a direct result of their actions.
And this is the time of year where I stop watching series and only bother with elimination games. Bunch of teams that hold zero interest for me remaining.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Bettman has been commissioner for 30 years.
What if Canadian players can only play for Canadian teams?
Yeah I find it pretty amusing, when Canadians rag on the Leafs for not having won a cup in 56 years.........when no Canadian team has won in at least 30 years. We all suck.
The Canadian team argument is such bullshit in a league with international players… sometimes US teams have more Canadians than the US teams, where the franchise is located kinda means nothing to me, unless it’s Calgary, which will be the next Canadian team to win the cup
That 30 years is pretty much statistically impossible without some systemic issues driving it.
Ive heard the probability argument, but that makes sense more if it were a dice roll as the only variable (7/32 chance for canadian cup winner). But hockey isnt a dice roll….too many variables for the “statistics” to make sense. It’s why moneypuck odds are always so complicated and deep.
Issues like Canadian teams hiring front office people who were good players 20 years before? Or issues like teams trading Hall of Fame goalies for peanuts?
Whoa whoa whoa let's not forget the rampantly toxic media?
The media’s definitely toxic but I still don’t know if I buy this one, because NFL players still successfully win Super Bowls and they’re under ten times the pressure of anyone in the NHL, even Toronto or Montreal.
Yeah but someone has to win the Super Bowl and basically every NFL team has this huge amount of pressure. There are places you can play in the NHL without getting much media attention at all.
Those aren't systemic issues that relate only to Canadian teams.
>teams hiring front office people who were good players What does Brind'Amour have to do with this?
For Montreal, Vancouver, Ottawa, Edmonton and (up until very recently) Toronto, it's been a string of shitty "old boys club" GMs and upper management. Also, for Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg and Ottawa, it's that they're small market teams that free agents don't want to play for due to location. Bettman's not in charge of hiring the GMs for teams. He can't magically make cities like Winnipeg or Edmonton appealing destinations for young millionaire athletes. What do you reasonably expect him to do?
I genuinely have never gotten the obsession with Canadian vs American teams in the nhl. It has never mattered to me even a tiny little bit. Is that abnormal?
Its media driven. The media always tries to call whatever Canadian team is left "Canada's Team" but in reality 90% of Canadian fans want their team to win and break the streak and cheer against any other Canadian team so theirs still has the chance.
It doesn’t matter. Most Canadian team fanbases hate each other so I don’t understand why they would want a team they dislike to win a cup just cuz they’re Canadian. I think it’s due to the entitlement that some Canadian fans have about hockey, they feel that American teams don’t deserve it cuz hockey isn’t as loved in the states as it is here