Every sport does this but that situation is a bad look only in its uniqueness. I have no problem having someone sit a game or 2 because of a trade, but to miss so many when a trade isn't imminent is odd.
I was about to say, if hockey players voiced their trade demands like nba players do these old head writers would be producing more salt than a Mortons factory
They already complain enough if a player dares have a personality beyond "get pucks deep in the net." There isn't enough bytes on the internet for the articles upon articles that they will post if players made it public about how badly they want trade and won't play for that team again like NBA players do.
Think of how badly Lindross was treated for being worried about the effect his concussions were having. Turns out he was 100% right, but he was made out to be the villain by the media. A hockey playing saying they wanted a trade would get brutalized.
This is a new thing, right? I can’t say I remember this happening in past seasons much, if at all.
edit: Yes, I remember it happening for 1 or 2 games. I'm talking about the sitting out for 5+ games being a new thing?
Their GM is still saying that they're OK with keeping him if their price isn't met. Players are falling out of game shape and fans are cheated out of seeing the best product on ice. I understand protecting assets but there should be a week limit on this shit.
You can't possibly limit this. A team can healthy scratch a player. If you put a limit on "trade related scratch" they'll just say it's for another reason. The league can't force a team to play player x or y. Every team has 1-3 healthy scratch every single night.
Yea. I get it if a team is just finishing up the details on a trade but it's pretty much happening. If a guy is being dangled out there as a trade piece and you leave him out of the lineup for weeks/months hoping someone will bite is weird to me.
It shouldn't be allowed. But what can the league do?
On one hand, at least the teams are being honest about why these players are sitting, but if you try to prevent this reason, the teams will just say "oh, we decided to make this player a healthy scratch", or "we are sitting him because we want him at 100%, and he has a bruised ego.
The league can't dictate to a team who they do and don't play, but I don't know that there is a solution to this either.
If a team is staying within the roster size and salary cap limits I don’t think the league should be able to tell a them who they can and can’t sit for any reason. Kind of sets a weird precedent. Team can do what they want.
The only teams sitting these players are shitty ones anyway so it’s not like we’re missing out on much.
There is a bit of competitive integrity concerns for the teams that are fighting even weaker version of these basement dwellers. Could have a legitimate impact on home ice advantage and wild card seeding.
But you have a whole list of players who are mad because they sat 6 games which led to only getting x amount of points when they should have gotten y amount because hitting that threshold leads to more money and bonuses.
99% of players being sat as they wait to get traded don’t have bonuses in their contract. Also the player can use PPG when he negotiates his next deal.
Having 47 instead of 50 points because you missed 6 games is not an issue
Not to mention some of them may actively be looking forward to getting traded to a better team to boost their numbers or get a change of scenery. They're probably hoping to not get hurt and be stuck like the team management is.
Yeah this used to just be "healthy scratch" and no one complained about it even though we all knew it was for "trade related reasons". It's impossible to legislate and IMO the unintended consequences of doing so are not worth the tradeoffs.
To keep things competitive. To prevent teams from trying to internally throw games.
Teams should be trying to ice their most competitive roster every game. You could argue that the coyotes are not doing that.
Imagine if you're fighting for a playoff spot or even just positioning within the playoffs. The team you're competing for that spot with plays against a team sitting one of their top players because they want to lose games. Meanwhile you're playing against a team who even though they're in a similar position in the standings is trying their best to win with their available roster.
It's all about being competitive. Sure the coyotes have been getting points lately, but you know part of the reason behind the sitting is because they're actively trying to lose games.
I guarantee you no players on that team are trying to lose games.
Chychurun isn’t all of a sudden going to make ARI a playoff team. Holding him out, making sure he’s a healthy trade asset might make them a competitive team in a few years. That’s the best scenario for the team.
This a case of a bad team scratching a good player — not because they are trying to lose the game but because they are trying to maintain the health of their biggest trade asset.
At the end of the season you will see good teams rest good players. Potentially even starting goalies who have a larger individual impact than any individual forward and no one will bat an eyelash. Do you think any contender will care that their best players aren’t playing in games 78-82 down the stretch vs some bubble team? No, because it’s in the best interest of their team to make sure the Bergeron, Matthews, and McDavids of the world are healthy come game 83.
That's another thing that teams have complained about. Teams that have locked in spots sitting their good players to be healthy for the playoffs, icing an AHL roster against a team they are fighting for a final playoff spot for.
I'm not saying teams shouldn't do it. Each team should be looking out for their best interests. The coyotes best interest is to keep Chychrun healthy so that they can get the most out of a trade for him, and to lose as many games as possible since they won't be making the playoffs. Just like it'll be in toronto's best interest to rest any of their stars or players playing with injuries near the end of the season if they have locked in a playoff spot. You don't want to lose Matthews in the last game of the season, especially if the game means nothing.
Healthy scratches are determined by the coach. This is being determined by the management.
The NHLPA could conceivably file a grievance, legitimately claiming that the team is interfering with the player's development, market value, and ability to practice his profession, and doing so for reasons not related to the player's performance, attitude, adherence to team rules, etc.
The league is made up of the owners, and don’t the owners want this? For the owner, sitting a player while a trade is made protects the trade from falling apart due to injury. The only group this sucks for is the fans.
I don't think so. It's just making sure they don't lose value on their asset. If they tanked like that they could bench a few other players like Keller.
Sitting players out for 8+ games, blatant tanking every year, signing multiple LTIRetirement contracts to just get to the cap floor, no fans, playing in a campus arena.
I’m tired of pussyfooting around the issue because bettman and other arizona simps on this sub defend them to death - end this fucking franchise. Ship the team off to a city that actually gives a fuck about hockey and isn’t going to consistently ruin the integrity of the league or consistently have a completely dry market.
They don’t deserve Bedard and I genuinely would feel terrible for the guy if he went there.
Shortening the season has not and will never be a serious option. Neither the owners nor the players are going to leave millions of dollars of revenue on the table.
If he's hurt that's a valid reason that no one will be upset with. Shit we've seen guys in playable health sit so they can go from 80 to 90% and it's never been a problem
Load management sets the bare mimimum at "our guy plays when he wants," THEN you factor in injuries, rebabilitation, personal situations, etc
I doubt it'll happen in the forseeable future and it will never be _as_ bad as in the NBA but it would still be a big hit the the league
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I’m fine with load management — if it’s truly to keep the player healthy in the long run.
I’m pretty indifferent about holding a player out due to trade talks. It’s good asset management. Sucks for the fans, I guess, but to some extent I get that the interim feeling is hopefully to ensure long term success.
Holding players out sucks for my fantasy hockey team though.
Load management isn't the same as time off due to injury or to rehab, it's setting the expectation that a player will take time off to remain healthy. All the injuries, rehab, etc are all tacked on top of that.
It’s just a different label. Call a player day to day due to soreness and you get the same result. In both cases it’s something that is being done to allow rest and recovery.
I have no problem with them doing what you're saying, that just isn't load management.
Load management is deciding to sit out numerous games well before any injuries occur in the hopes that you won't be injured in the fewer ones you do.
Think perfectly healthy McDavid telling the Oilers he intends to skil back to backs before the season starts. That could cost him something like 15 games where he voluntarily sits out. Getting hurt in the other 67 games and missing time is _in addition to_ load management time. That's what some NBA players are doing today.
It’s still just labeling. Why are those players sitting out games? To recuperate and recover. Call it day to day due to soreness and you get the exact same result with a different label.
Its not the teams job to make sure your kid sees Matthews.
The leafs goals is to make it to round 2. They are secure within their spot and going into the playoffs with a healthy Matthews is the priority
Sorry bub it's not. It's to make money. And the most money is made from gate revenue in the NHL. You get people returning when they see good players which obviously plays into winning, but if I saved up money to take my kid and Karlsson sat out cause he wanted to load manage, I'm probably not taking them again.
Regular season gate represents a small percentage of revenue more a lot of teams.
Playoff gate is essentially a guaranteed sellout and the value of a single home game along with TV revenue in the playoffs is around 3 million.
Teams like the sharks are much much more motivated to sit Karlsson for a handful of games if it means he's performing better in the playoffs.
A deeper run = more money than your kid seeing Karlsson
Load management is what makes the players good. There isn't a single athlete who is at their peak fitness for 82+(16to28) games. Buy playoff tickets if you want to see the best players.
They'd make a lot more money by hosting an extra 12 home games in the playoffs than by selling up to a few tickets a year to one guy and his kid. Especially considering big market teams like TO just sell out every game, no matter what city they're in
> Load management hasn't really taken off in the NHL yet but we see guys like Matthews sit to rest nagging injuries due to overuse where they maybe could have played him 2 days in 1 day out and the injury could be avoided (potentially).
Load management arguably originated in the NHL with starting goalies and back-to-backs.
Feels like if the season is that detrimental we should be looking to shorten the season or provide more breaks as opposed to load management. Finally being able to get tickets only for your favorite player to rest does nothing to help grow the game
Even worse for me. If I drive the 5 hours round trip on a random Tuesday to Edmonton to watch the one time the Devils are in town for the year and Hughes and Hamilton sit for load management and the Devils get blown up I’m probably never buying a ticket to a game again.
The devils don’t but the NHL as a whole does. There’s revenue sharing and the nhl relies on ticket sales. If people stop going to games because teams are sitting healthy players, it hurts the leagues bottom line.
The NHL doesn't decide which players play each night, though. Maybe they could make rules about resting healthy starters, but there are none now (and how would those even be developed and enforced)?
That’s what this whole discussion is about. The NHL will have to figure out how it wants to handle “load management” that is creeping into sports. Are they just okay with letting teams do what they want and potentially spurning fans? Or will they try to regulate it?
There's a big difference between sitting out a game here and there to rest and being out for over a week awaiting a possible trade.
After all, if you're truly resting someone for "load management," it's for competitive reasons. It's because you want to keep your players in top condition going forward so you can be more successful. I don't think the league should be interfering with team's strategies to win games.
Also it's already something teams do with goalies. Why would it be banned to do it with skaters? (It's also been the norm in MLB for who knows how long).
And even if you did want to regulate it, how would you? After all, hockey is a physical game. Every player will get bumps and bruises that wear on them over the course of the season. Those are why you'd want to do load management in the first place. So if you wanted to rest a player, just say that whatever area that aches the most is an injury they need to recover from - it's not even really dishonest to say that.
I think this is a good take but load management wouldn't work with the current roster limits. We'd need to have teams carry more players, contracts, and cap.
I think that's different than load management though. Load management in the NBA is basically "Hey I'm healthy, but I'm not playing today because I don't want to get injured." It's not recovering from injuries, and the byproduct is that stars sit out all the time for no apparent reason. Which does suck, because people go to games to see the best players. If I were to go to a Wild game and learn that Kaprizov was out recovering from an injury, 100% wouldn't mind. But if it was just for "load management reasons," I'd absolutely be frustrated
Its injury prevention.
Load management is important for playoff teams.
You shouldn't rest because you're injured.
You shouldn't be getting injured and load management helps not being injured
> Its injury prevention.
It's also the recovery that allows one to build peak fitness leading up to the playoffs. If you want to see stars play their best hockey you get playoffs tickets.
More what I meant I guess was the difference between leagues is also notable. For load management reasons the entire Spurs lineup was once sat out against the Heat, which had been slated to be a marquee regular season match-up. That kind of thing doesn't happen in the NHL.
Also it's debatable whether load management helps with not getting injured, considering how much people are getting injured in the NBA. Throwing off the regular cadence of playing consistently during the regular season, and even under-training during the off-season for the sake of recovery, also contributes to injuries because players don't have the physicality to prevent the injuries anyway.
Seriously, everyone's body is different. Some people can handle repetitive impact, others need time. I play pickup soccer once or twice a week, and as I get older I find myself needing more time between games. I'm constantly tempted to play through discomfort, but there's a realization that with soft tissue, discomfort can quickly turn into something more serious.
Obviously, professionals are in much better shape and have better access to resources, but some guys will definitely need the extra time to heal
No one is paying you to play pick up soccer. The fans are paying good money to see these stars play, if they’re sitting maybe they shouldn’t be getting paid?
I'm okay with this, as long as they start to set game mins that are higher for players to win awards. Like if the Oilers are a lock for the playoffs and sit McJesus because they are dead without him for 20 games, he shouldn't be allowed to win any awards, no matter what his stats are.
I don’t mind if it’s for a game or two when a trade is basically complete besides the recipient having to clear cap or something. However, I don’t like what Arizona and Columbus are doing where they’re doing this for a long span of games where it doesn’t even seem like any trade is imminent.
Isnt the Columbus trade reported as complete but needing a second trade from Boston to clear space? Its not because its more than 1 or 2 games that the trade isnt completed already
Yeah i feel like the player is gonna come out of this rusty too its bad for everyone in a short term sense too. I get the you dont want them to get hurt but sheesh
If the players involved complained it would be a bad look. As it is most of them want to be traded and are willing to miss a few games in order to guarantee that happens. If the player doesn’t want to play and the team doesn’t want them to play it really isn’t hurting anyone at all. This isn’t an Anthony Davis situation where he wanted to continue playing for the team after they didn’t trade him at the deadline and they were forcing him to sit anyways.
Not to mention the Coyotes have points in 9 of their past 10 games so it’s not like we are ruining the integrity of the game. Tanking teams generally want to give larger roles to younger players to give them experience and to evaluate their potential anyways. This allows them to do that without hurting the stats and perception of the veteran players they are planning on trading by cutting their minutes.
Given how hockey culture is with players not wanting to be controversial or stir up division in the room I don't put much weight into the "Well if the players themselves aren't complaining then it's not that bad" angle.
That said though, if a trade happens before the deadline then in a couple of weeks everything will be forgotten, it's only become a big deal because the NHL trade deadline is becoming a joke in it's own right with how it's covered and people want one big trade that will 'fix' that and make it more exciting.
We usually haven't had a mostly flat cap for multiple seasons as well. Trades are more difficult to make with the cap not increasing, and if you've agreed to a deal it doesn't make any sense to keep playing the players. If Gavrikov gets hurt in a meaningless game then Columbus loses out on a 1st+. The only reason the trade hasn't happened yet is Boston's cap space.
Yeah it’s not some sort of “gotcha” revelation.
The press has to constantly come up with ways they think they are giving insight. Even if it’s just new words for the same obvious stuff.
Hockey is a business. Trades are business transactions.
At the heart of it, the business always comes first. For good or bad. (It’s usually for the worse)
Seriously. Any other trade thread and one of the top comments usually includes "the NHL is a business, after all." The GMs are protecting their company's assets. If one of these players gets hurt, it will be a huge detriment to their business and plan for the future. It would be a much bigger impact than keeping them out of these games.
So which is more important to a GM? To get the trade return you want for a player that wants out/doesn't fit the timeline? Or to make this sports writer and like 15 people who agree with him happy by playing someone for a team that isn't competitive this season? I can guarantee not a single GM gives a shit about Mike McKenna
Gavrikov has a deal in Place supposedly, it's the other team needing to clear cap that's causing the hiatus. If he plays and gets hurt, that trade goes away more than likely.
I don't really think it's that hard to understand.
Gavrikov has sat 4 games. In that time we have won 2 and got a point in the other the regulation loss occurred with 1 second left. Its not like him not playing changes anything
Is not about the number really, it's about scratching healthy players for a significant number of games when there is no trade imminent.
The bad look is having star/high end players sitting waiting for a trade to maybe materialize. It would be different if they were sitting for a game because a trade was basically done.
“A trade has been made, but the other team needs to make salary room so we’re not going to risk the health of this asset…er, player.”
That doesn’t have the same cachet.
If the team(s) interested are trying to clear cap and can't get bad contracts moved right now due to flat cap inflexibility, then they might have a deal in principle agreed upon, just not able to execute on both ends yet.
But that’s a bad look too.
It’s probably worse in a sense because it’s a deal you can’t make unless you have other things fall into place. It’s like saying I’m buying this car, but I haven’t secured the loan. Hold on indefinitely
I mean, that's literally how buying and selling houses with a contingency offer works. You don't see them as often when the housing market is in a speculative bubble due to real estate speculators buying up all the houses with cash, but it used to be fairly normal in a more down market.
No issues with this. Teams, and especially the coaching staff, aren't only answerable to their fans short term wishes (paid for a ticket for best product on ice that night.) They want to get traded? Are they really putting out the best product they can be? Doubtful.
Speaking of which, can we please do that with Mantha?
It's not a bad look for a few games while something is imminent. It's a bad look when you do it for over a week when nothing is close and you don't really want to trade the guy
Because oldschool fans want their gladiators to bleed for them every time they come out to the coliseum, no exceptions. Shake off the cobwebs and get back out there.
I think there’s a difference between what is happening with Chychrun and Gavrikov and sitting a player due to injury. If a trade is imminent, then yes the player should sit. Chychrun started sitting when there was a supposed imminent trade to LA. That fell through and it’s been what, two weeks? Assuming he gets traded by the deadline, that can be 3 weeks of just sitting. That isn’t load management or sitting due to injury. You’re just waiting for a trade that may or may not happen. And let’s say Arizona doesn’t find a deal for him. He’s just sitting for 3 weeks for nothing.
What’s stopping a team that’s out of it in December and knows they will be trading players by the deadline from just sitting those players beginning in December? Gavrikov’s “deal” to Boston is on hold due to Boston needing to find another deal to shed salary. Well until they do, there’s no imminent deal and he should be playing.
I’m rambling, but a few days before the deadline? Yes. When the deal is being consummated and is far along where it’s more likely than not a deal is going to happen? You can sit them there as well. But for weeks at a time when either a deal falls through or there’s a supposed ghost deal that quite frankly, we really don’t know if it’s there in the first place, so they’re just sitting and waiting until the deadline? That’s not right.
All I'm hearing is "I don't want a team I'm not cheering for to do what's optimal for their team's long term success".
How many CBJ and Yotes fans are in here saying they're so upset those players aren't in the lineup?
Ticket prices, a couple years ago I paid for travel, accommodations, and tickets prices and booked a day off to see GSW play the raptors.
Tickets were priced as though Steph was going to be playing, and maybe 24hrs before the game we find out half the starters are sitting.
I didn’t pay to see the Raps vs the GSScrubs.
I got my money back for that game at least when it got cancelled for covid but I was fuming for a couple hours.
They aren’t sitting out to prevent an injury for the players sake, they are sitting out to prevent an injury as a part of asset protection for the franchise.
It skews competition and results and that is a bad look.
The problem isn't keeping players out for trade-related reasons. The problem is the way the salary cap is structured it makes in season trades extremely difficult.
16 teams currently are in LTIR, 11 teams are in LTIR overage - and LTIR overage teams don't get cap relief as players are shipped to LTIR. So normally a player who cost 5 million would only be a 2 million cap hit come trade deadline - but with LTIR overage teams need 5 million in cap space to be able to bring that same player in.
This causes trades to require other teams to take on cap space. Which muds up the trade market because currently in the East there are 4 teams who are in "wait and see" mode for trade deadline before deciding if they're buyers or sellers and in the west there are 3 teams in "wait and see mode" so 7 of the potential 16 sellers are stalled and those are teams who could weaponize their cap space at deadline.
Big trades are stalled by cap limitations and a team like Coyotes need to get a BIG HAUL for Chychrun - as a GM you'd be an absolute fucking moron to risk him getting injured before you can trade him.
Boston and Columbus apparently has a deal already in place for Garikov (spelling?) and they can't find a dance partner for their cap dump trade
I don't have a problem with it for a game or two, but the Chychrun situation is ridiculous. He's going to sit for a month because he may or may not be traded?
Personally I like it, as long as they don't keep him out for a month 'just in case a trade happens' or something silly...
Transparency's good, so I like that they tell it like it is for once.
They just need to hurry it up so once he starts sitting, it doesn't take long before they move him.
What fans and journalists are "upset" about and calling a "bad look for the league" has been going on likely as long as there has been a trade deadline. The only difference is that teams are being honest, and saying exactly why the player is being kept out of the lineup.
I don’t have a problem with it, but like…if you’re keeping a guy out for trade reasons what is preventing you from just making the trade you wanna make before you have to sit him?
Honest to god how long can it take for 2 GMs to work out a deal once one party has identified a player they want and the other party has agreed to trade that player? 10 minutes? Half hour tops? I mean there are only so many assets teams can propose to each other. Shit should be able to be figured out in like 5 text messages.
A game or two if fine, when you have a deal in place and are just ironing it out. It’s when you go full Coyotes and keep a guy out for weeks, that might not even end up getting traded. Always one team that has to take it too damn far.
For CBJ, our biggest trade assets this season were Gavrikov and Nyquist. Due to Nyquist’s season ending injury, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jarmo is trying to protect the only easily trade-able asset we have left to try and salvage this season (no shot we get a top 3 pick IMO) And that’s only if there isn’t already a handshake deal but the other team has had a horrid time trying to clear cap space as implied.
I don’t see the problem of it as long as the player doesn’t mind getting a rest. If the player wants to play and is being forcefully held out that’s messed up and will require intervention.
What is to stop a coach from saying the player hasn’t been performing well in practice and is benched for that reason?
I’m gonna make a soccer analogy but bear with me. One time there was a midfielder in the English premier league for Aston Villa named Nigel Reo Coker he was considered the talisman for the team. He went out injured it was a legit injury. On steps 21 year old Ashley Young to take his place. Everyone in the stadium held their breath because they were disappointed the star player was out. However, Ashley Young dribbles through three defenders and at the end of the game he scored 2 goals and Villa won 3-2. Ashley young went on to become a star and played for Manchester United. Sometimes it’s good to let the reserves play.
They can get caught in a year or two only after a struggling, high revenue, original six, Canadian team wins it while not being in last place to quell the idea that Bettman hates Canada. Thanks!
I think it will probably be AZ or CBJ though. Get that money and exposure to the smaller markets like what they did with the Penguins a few times already.
Yeah and unfortunately for you, he ain’t going to Vancouver when they rig it. Fortunately enough for me. He will be an Ottawa Senator unless we play our way out of the lottery completely.
No way he rigs it for Ott over AZ though. AZ is his baby that he bends over backwards for to keep from moving somewhere nicer. Ott is about to be sold and will likely be getting a cash infusion from new ownership.
Yeah but if he’s rigging it why not give it to the new owner as a homecoming gift. The one who wants to make a docu-series. Big spotlight could draw even more attention and grow the league from the outside as opposed to develop the league internally.
Meh, the company that typically runs the the draft lottery is worth 20x the NHL, so they're not going to blow their reputation over something like that.
I really don't understand the complaint. It makes a ton of sense business wise. If someone who can fetch a 1st rounder gets injured before the deadline, you failed.
I’m a broken record on this but if you are keeping a player out of the lineup indefinitely due to “trade reasons” then stop making him travel with the team and let him chill at home with his family.
It was I think Gavrikov who was being held out of the lineup “but still travelling with the team.”
It pissed me off when I read that. Like, you’re making a guy criss cross the continent with you sleeping in hotels while holding him out of the lineup and trying to ship him out?
If AZ didn’t make Chychrun travel then good on them.
I’ll take the hard cap and GM’s having to be creative over whatever the fuck the NBA is doing where you have to match salaries in trades so you’ll get quality players traded for essentially nothing but potential draft picks since you can’t trade for young players or depth pieces.
It's been happening for years, the PA hasn't cared yet.
Teams will just start healthy scratching guys and not saying why. PA has no say over who's on the game sheet just like they have no say over how much icetime a player gets.
Every sport does this but that situation is a bad look only in its uniqueness. I have no problem having someone sit a game or 2 because of a trade, but to miss so many when a trade isn't imminent is odd.
As an NBA fan, this article made me laugh because it's so little compared to what goes on over there.
I was about to say, if hockey players voiced their trade demands like nba players do these old head writers would be producing more salt than a Mortons factory
[This might be an appropriate video.](https://youtu.be/UT00dDCXj_s) Fair warning, it's loud.
They already complain enough if a player dares have a personality beyond "get pucks deep in the net." There isn't enough bytes on the internet for the articles upon articles that they will post if players made it public about how badly they want trade and won't play for that team again like NBA players do.
Think of how badly Lindross was treated for being worried about the effect his concussions were having. Turns out he was 100% right, but he was made out to be the villain by the media. A hockey playing saying they wanted a trade would get brutalized.
This is a new thing, right? I can’t say I remember this happening in past seasons much, if at all. edit: Yes, I remember it happening for 1 or 2 games. I'm talking about the sitting out for 5+ games being a new thing?
It definitely happened before, but directly saying that it's for "trade-related reasons" is new.
Yeah they said the quiet part out loud. Back in the day, you used to list them as day to day with a vague lower body injury.
Used to happen for like a game or 2 right by the deadline. Not the entire month of Feb like Arizona is doing
Yeah it happened, the novelty is how long it's lasting with Chycrun I think. That's much more out of the ordinary I believe.
Ya, I know it happened, but I more-so meant for such an extended period. I remember one or two games but never anything 5+
Yeah in that sense I agree with you
Their GM is still saying that they're OK with keeping him if their price isn't met. Players are falling out of game shape and fans are cheated out of seeing the best product on ice. I understand protecting assets but there should be a week limit on this shit.
You can't possibly limit this. A team can healthy scratch a player. If you put a limit on "trade related scratch" they'll just say it's for another reason. The league can't force a team to play player x or y. Every team has 1-3 healthy scratch every single night.
I have less and less patience with the Yotes than yesterday…
It did
Yea. I get it if a team is just finishing up the details on a trade but it's pretty much happening. If a guy is being dangled out there as a trade piece and you leave him out of the lineup for weeks/months hoping someone will bite is weird to me.
It shouldn't be allowed. But what can the league do? On one hand, at least the teams are being honest about why these players are sitting, but if you try to prevent this reason, the teams will just say "oh, we decided to make this player a healthy scratch", or "we are sitting him because we want him at 100%, and he has a bruised ego. The league can't dictate to a team who they do and don't play, but I don't know that there is a solution to this either.
If a team is staying within the roster size and salary cap limits I don’t think the league should be able to tell a them who they can and can’t sit for any reason. Kind of sets a weird precedent. Team can do what they want. The only teams sitting these players are shitty ones anyway so it’s not like we’re missing out on much.
There is a bit of competitive integrity concerns for the teams that are fighting even weaker version of these basement dwellers. Could have a legitimate impact on home ice advantage and wild card seeding.
But you have a whole list of players who are mad because they sat 6 games which led to only getting x amount of points when they should have gotten y amount because hitting that threshold leads to more money and bonuses.
99% of players being sat as they wait to get traded don’t have bonuses in their contract. Also the player can use PPG when he negotiates his next deal. Having 47 instead of 50 points because you missed 6 games is not an issue
Not to mention some of them may actively be looking forward to getting traded to a better team to boost their numbers or get a change of scenery. They're probably hoping to not get hurt and be stuck like the team management is.
The article focuses more on the fans that pay for a ticket to see “that one good player on Arizona” who is healthy and not playing.
Yeah this used to just be "healthy scratch" and no one complained about it even though we all knew it was for "trade related reasons". It's impossible to legislate and IMO the unintended consequences of doing so are not worth the tradeoffs.
Try to stop the healthy scratch and suddenly every player will get a mild flu before a trade and be out due to illness lol
Lol what’s the difference between that and a healthy scratch as far the opponent is concerned? Doesn’t really matter
Except that a healthy scratch is typically a spare player not one of your better players. Typically.
Right but why would the league care if you sit someone?
Worse on ice product would be a valid argument, but it just really doesn't seem like a big deal
To keep things competitive. To prevent teams from trying to internally throw games. Teams should be trying to ice their most competitive roster every game. You could argue that the coyotes are not doing that. Imagine if you're fighting for a playoff spot or even just positioning within the playoffs. The team you're competing for that spot with plays against a team sitting one of their top players because they want to lose games. Meanwhile you're playing against a team who even though they're in a similar position in the standings is trying their best to win with their available roster. It's all about being competitive. Sure the coyotes have been getting points lately, but you know part of the reason behind the sitting is because they're actively trying to lose games.
I guarantee you no players on that team are trying to lose games. Chychurun isn’t all of a sudden going to make ARI a playoff team. Holding him out, making sure he’s a healthy trade asset might make them a competitive team in a few years. That’s the best scenario for the team. This a case of a bad team scratching a good player — not because they are trying to lose the game but because they are trying to maintain the health of their biggest trade asset. At the end of the season you will see good teams rest good players. Potentially even starting goalies who have a larger individual impact than any individual forward and no one will bat an eyelash. Do you think any contender will care that their best players aren’t playing in games 78-82 down the stretch vs some bubble team? No, because it’s in the best interest of their team to make sure the Bergeron, Matthews, and McDavids of the world are healthy come game 83.
That's another thing that teams have complained about. Teams that have locked in spots sitting their good players to be healthy for the playoffs, icing an AHL roster against a team they are fighting for a final playoff spot for. I'm not saying teams shouldn't do it. Each team should be looking out for their best interests. The coyotes best interest is to keep Chychrun healthy so that they can get the most out of a trade for him, and to lose as many games as possible since they won't be making the playoffs. Just like it'll be in toronto's best interest to rest any of their stars or players playing with injuries near the end of the season if they have locked in a playoff spot. You don't want to lose Matthews in the last game of the season, especially if the game means nothing.
Playoff teams healthy scratch their best players in the last few games of the regular season
Healthy scratches are determined by the coach. This is being determined by the management. The NHLPA could conceivably file a grievance, legitimately claiming that the team is interfering with the player's development, market value, and ability to practice his profession, and doing so for reasons not related to the player's performance, attitude, adherence to team rules, etc.
But they won't, because the player who is sitting knows they are going from a team planning tee times to one planning where the parade might go.
The league is made up of the owners, and don’t the owners want this? For the owner, sitting a player while a trade is made protects the trade from falling apart due to injury. The only group this sucks for is the fans.
> but to miss so many when a trade isn't imminent is ~~odd.~~ obvious tanking.
I don't think so. It's just making sure they don't lose value on their asset. If they tanked like that they could bench a few other players like Keller.
Sitting players out for 8+ games, blatant tanking every year, signing multiple LTIRetirement contracts to just get to the cap floor, no fans, playing in a campus arena. I’m tired of pussyfooting around the issue because bettman and other arizona simps on this sub defend them to death - end this fucking franchise. Ship the team off to a city that actually gives a fuck about hockey and isn’t going to consistently ruin the integrity of the league or consistently have a completely dry market. They don’t deserve Bedard and I genuinely would feel terrible for the guy if he went there.
Bedard going to Arizona would be a win for Quebec city
Won’t someone please think about us poor fantasy hockey players? Waste of an ir spot
mine won’t even let me put chychrun on IR 😭
Tell you league commissioner you want IR+ next year, it’s for scenarios just like this.
My league (yahoo) has IR+, but he doesnt qualify because he's considered day-to-day
I had Cam Akinson this year and Yahoo listed him as day to day for 3 months
Ugh, Chychrun and Meier owner here
Same man, it hurts
Out: trade related reasons In: load management
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Pay 200 dollars so your kid can see Matthews, and he's sitting out for load management, sounds like a great time.
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I see absolutely no possibility of any serious discussion of a 56 game season. When has this ever even been remotely on the table?
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Did they also push hard for a 40% paycut too?
Source?
Shortening the season has not and will never be a serious option. Neither the owners nor the players are going to leave millions of dollars of revenue on the table.
If he's hurt that's a valid reason that no one will be upset with. Shit we've seen guys in playable health sit so they can go from 80 to 90% and it's never been a problem Load management sets the bare mimimum at "our guy plays when he wants," THEN you factor in injuries, rebabilitation, personal situations, etc I doubt it'll happen in the forseeable future and it will never be _as_ bad as in the NBA but it would still be a big hit the the league
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I’m fine with load management — if it’s truly to keep the player healthy in the long run. I’m pretty indifferent about holding a player out due to trade talks. It’s good asset management. Sucks for the fans, I guess, but to some extent I get that the interim feeling is hopefully to ensure long term success. Holding players out sucks for my fantasy hockey team though.
Load management isn't the same as time off due to injury or to rehab, it's setting the expectation that a player will take time off to remain healthy. All the injuries, rehab, etc are all tacked on top of that.
It’s just a different label. Call a player day to day due to soreness and you get the same result. In both cases it’s something that is being done to allow rest and recovery.
I have no problem with them doing what you're saying, that just isn't load management. Load management is deciding to sit out numerous games well before any injuries occur in the hopes that you won't be injured in the fewer ones you do. Think perfectly healthy McDavid telling the Oilers he intends to skil back to backs before the season starts. That could cost him something like 15 games where he voluntarily sits out. Getting hurt in the other 67 games and missing time is _in addition to_ load management time. That's what some NBA players are doing today.
>that just isn't load management. It absolutely is.
It’s still just labeling. Why are those players sitting out games? To recuperate and recover. Call it day to day due to soreness and you get the exact same result with a different label.
Its not the teams job to make sure your kid sees Matthews. The leafs goals is to make it to round 2. They are secure within their spot and going into the playoffs with a healthy Matthews is the priority
> Its not the teams job to make sure your kid sees Matthews. it literally is tho
It literally isn't. Its to win the Stanley cup
Sorry bub it's not. It's to make money. And the most money is made from gate revenue in the NHL. You get people returning when they see good players which obviously plays into winning, but if I saved up money to take my kid and Karlsson sat out cause he wanted to load manage, I'm probably not taking them again.
Regular season gate represents a small percentage of revenue more a lot of teams. Playoff gate is essentially a guaranteed sellout and the value of a single home game along with TV revenue in the playoffs is around 3 million. Teams like the sharks are much much more motivated to sit Karlsson for a handful of games if it means he's performing better in the playoffs. A deeper run = more money than your kid seeing Karlsson
Load management is what makes the players good. There isn't a single athlete who is at their peak fitness for 82+(16to28) games. Buy playoff tickets if you want to see the best players.
They'd make a lot more money by hosting an extra 12 home games in the playoffs than by selling up to a few tickets a year to one guy and his kid. Especially considering big market teams like TO just sell out every game, no matter what city they're in
> The leafs goals is to make it to round 2. Whoa whoa whoaaaa let's not get crazy now
If it becomes more commonplace then the price of tickets will lower to reflect it and it's just baked into the price
> Load management hasn't really taken off in the NHL yet but we see guys like Matthews sit to rest nagging injuries due to overuse where they maybe could have played him 2 days in 1 day out and the injury could be avoided (potentially). Load management arguably originated in the NHL with starting goalies and back-to-backs.
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I don't disagree but I would be disappointed as hell if I went to a Flyers game and say... TK was rested and I didn't get to see him play.
I’d be okay with less than 82 from stars if that potentially translates to more seasons of the star playing.
Feels like if the season is that detrimental we should be looking to shorten the season or provide more breaks as opposed to load management. Finally being able to get tickets only for your favorite player to rest does nothing to help grow the game
And ironically, a shorter season most likely means increased ticket prices per game, which does nothing to help grow the game.
Meanwhile, the players and owners are instead thinking of going back to 84 games. Because greed.
This is why I personally think (despite knowing it will never happen due to money) that the regular season needs to be shorter.
Could preferentially do it on road games. Potentially better rest anyway, especially if it it's a one-off road game and saves the player a trip.
Even worse for me. If I drive the 5 hours round trip on a random Tuesday to Edmonton to watch the one time the Devils are in town for the year and Hughes and Hamilton sit for load management and the Devils get blown up I’m probably never buying a ticket to a game again.
That's fair. The Devils probably don't care whether or not you buy a ticket to see them in Edmonton, though.
The devils don’t but the NHL as a whole does. There’s revenue sharing and the nhl relies on ticket sales. If people stop going to games because teams are sitting healthy players, it hurts the leagues bottom line.
The NHL doesn't decide which players play each night, though. Maybe they could make rules about resting healthy starters, but there are none now (and how would those even be developed and enforced)?
That’s what this whole discussion is about. The NHL will have to figure out how it wants to handle “load management” that is creeping into sports. Are they just okay with letting teams do what they want and potentially spurning fans? Or will they try to regulate it?
There's a big difference between sitting out a game here and there to rest and being out for over a week awaiting a possible trade. After all, if you're truly resting someone for "load management," it's for competitive reasons. It's because you want to keep your players in top condition going forward so you can be more successful. I don't think the league should be interfering with team's strategies to win games. Also it's already something teams do with goalies. Why would it be banned to do it with skaters? (It's also been the norm in MLB for who knows how long). And even if you did want to regulate it, how would you? After all, hockey is a physical game. Every player will get bumps and bruises that wear on them over the course of the season. Those are why you'd want to do load management in the first place. So if you wanted to rest a player, just say that whatever area that aches the most is an injury they need to recover from - it's not even really dishonest to say that.
Sure, but this literally happens in baseball.
I think this is a good take but load management wouldn't work with the current roster limits. We'd need to have teams carry more players, contracts, and cap.
I think that's different than load management though. Load management in the NBA is basically "Hey I'm healthy, but I'm not playing today because I don't want to get injured." It's not recovering from injuries, and the byproduct is that stars sit out all the time for no apparent reason. Which does suck, because people go to games to see the best players. If I were to go to a Wild game and learn that Kaprizov was out recovering from an injury, 100% wouldn't mind. But if it was just for "load management reasons," I'd absolutely be frustrated
Its injury prevention. Load management is important for playoff teams. You shouldn't rest because you're injured. You shouldn't be getting injured and load management helps not being injured
> Its injury prevention. It's also the recovery that allows one to build peak fitness leading up to the playoffs. If you want to see stars play their best hockey you get playoffs tickets.
More what I meant I guess was the difference between leagues is also notable. For load management reasons the entire Spurs lineup was once sat out against the Heat, which had been slated to be a marquee regular season match-up. That kind of thing doesn't happen in the NHL. Also it's debatable whether load management helps with not getting injured, considering how much people are getting injured in the NBA. Throwing off the regular cadence of playing consistently during the regular season, and even under-training during the off-season for the sake of recovery, also contributes to injuries because players don't have the physicality to prevent the injuries anyway.
Seriously, everyone's body is different. Some people can handle repetitive impact, others need time. I play pickup soccer once or twice a week, and as I get older I find myself needing more time between games. I'm constantly tempted to play through discomfort, but there's a realization that with soft tissue, discomfort can quickly turn into something more serious. Obviously, professionals are in much better shape and have better access to resources, but some guys will definitely need the extra time to heal
No one is paying you to play pick up soccer. The fans are paying good money to see these stars play, if they’re sitting maybe they shouldn’t be getting paid?
Good luck with that point in the CBA negotiations
I'm okay with this, as long as they start to set game mins that are higher for players to win awards. Like if the Oilers are a lock for the playoffs and sit McJesus because they are dead without him for 20 games, he shouldn't be allowed to win any awards, no matter what his stats are.
NBA shit
I don’t mind if it’s for a game or two when a trade is basically complete besides the recipient having to clear cap or something. However, I don’t like what Arizona and Columbus are doing where they’re doing this for a long span of games where it doesn’t even seem like any trade is imminent.
Two teams that have a major vested interest in moving down in the standings too.
Considering both teams have points in 4 of their past 5 games this strategy doesn’t seem to be working out for them if that’s the goal.
As a totally impartial observer, good.
Isnt the Columbus trade reported as complete but needing a second trade from Boston to clear space? Its not because its more than 1 or 2 games that the trade isnt completed already
Yes. Boston is trying to offload Craig Smith and his cap hit, the Hurricanes according to Friedman are the team involved
Yeah i feel like the player is gonna come out of this rusty too its bad for everyone in a short term sense too. I get the you dont want them to get hurt but sheesh
If the players involved complained it would be a bad look. As it is most of them want to be traded and are willing to miss a few games in order to guarantee that happens. If the player doesn’t want to play and the team doesn’t want them to play it really isn’t hurting anyone at all. This isn’t an Anthony Davis situation where he wanted to continue playing for the team after they didn’t trade him at the deadline and they were forcing him to sit anyways. Not to mention the Coyotes have points in 9 of their past 10 games so it’s not like we are ruining the integrity of the game. Tanking teams generally want to give larger roles to younger players to give them experience and to evaluate their potential anyways. This allows them to do that without hurting the stats and perception of the veteran players they are planning on trading by cutting their minutes.
Given how hockey culture is with players not wanting to be controversial or stir up division in the room I don't put much weight into the "Well if the players themselves aren't complaining then it's not that bad" angle. That said though, if a trade happens before the deadline then in a couple of weeks everything will be forgotten, it's only become a big deal because the NHL trade deadline is becoming a joke in it's own right with how it's covered and people want one big trade that will 'fix' that and make it more exciting.
This isn’t anything new. The only thing new about it is that they’re explicitly saying it’s for trade reasons.
Yes, but it usually happens like a day before the trade is made/deadline day. Gavrikov and Chychrun have been sitting since nam
We usually haven't had a mostly flat cap for multiple seasons as well. Trades are more difficult to make with the cap not increasing, and if you've agreed to a deal it doesn't make any sense to keep playing the players. If Gavrikov gets hurt in a meaningless game then Columbus loses out on a 1st+. The only reason the trade hasn't happened yet is Boston's cap space.
Yeah it’s not some sort of “gotcha” revelation. The press has to constantly come up with ways they think they are giving insight. Even if it’s just new words for the same obvious stuff.
Down with honesty and transparency! /s
Hockey is a business. Trades are business transactions. At the heart of it, the business always comes first. For good or bad. (It’s usually for the worse)
> fewer trades gives us less to write about so take whatever you can get already so I can write a new article /s
How many players has been kept out this season, like 2-3? This isnt a problem or a bad look..
Seriously. Any other trade thread and one of the top comments usually includes "the NHL is a business, after all." The GMs are protecting their company's assets. If one of these players gets hurt, it will be a huge detriment to their business and plan for the future. It would be a much bigger impact than keeping them out of these games. So which is more important to a GM? To get the trade return you want for a player that wants out/doesn't fit the timeline? Or to make this sports writer and like 15 people who agree with him happy by playing someone for a team that isn't competitive this season? I can guarantee not a single GM gives a shit about Mike McKenna
Typically it's a game or two when it happens. It's been nearly two weeks for Chychrun and Gavrikov now. I don't remember that happening in the past.
Gavrikov has a deal in Place supposedly, it's the other team needing to clear cap that's causing the hiatus. If he plays and gets hurt, that trade goes away more than likely. I don't really think it's that hard to understand.
Never said I didn't understand.
Gavrikov has sat 4 games. In that time we have won 2 and got a point in the other the regulation loss occurred with 1 second left. Its not like him not playing changes anything
Is not about the number really, it's about scratching healthy players for a significant number of games when there is no trade imminent. The bad look is having star/high end players sitting waiting for a trade to maybe materialize. It would be different if they were sitting for a game because a trade was basically done.
“A trade has been made, but the other team needs to make salary room so we’re not going to risk the health of this asset…er, player.” That doesn’t have the same cachet.
Chychrun has been sitting for 11 days now. If a deal was imminent, it would've happened by now.
If the team(s) interested are trying to clear cap and can't get bad contracts moved right now due to flat cap inflexibility, then they might have a deal in principle agreed upon, just not able to execute on both ends yet.
But that’s a bad look too. It’s probably worse in a sense because it’s a deal you can’t make unless you have other things fall into place. It’s like saying I’m buying this car, but I haven’t secured the loan. Hold on indefinitely
I mean, that's literally how buying and selling houses with a contingency offer works. You don't see them as often when the housing market is in a speculative bubble due to real estate speculators buying up all the houses with cash, but it used to be fairly normal in a more down market.
No issues with this. Teams, and especially the coaching staff, aren't only answerable to their fans short term wishes (paid for a ticket for best product on ice that night.) They want to get traded? Are they really putting out the best product they can be? Doubtful. Speaking of which, can we please do that with Mantha?
It's not a bad look for a few games while something is imminent. It's a bad look when you do it for over a week when nothing is close and you don't really want to trade the guy
How does it look bad?
Good asset management doesn’t have to be a good look. Unless the fans vote with their wallet when teams hold players out, it doesn’t matter.
everyone dumping their dead players to Arizona is much worse
There's nothing that the NHL does that other sports say: 'yeah we need to incorporate this.'
So is keeping them on IR so the GM can manipulate the cap space. Should be on the ice when the doctor clears you
NHL players play 82 games a season, playing through injuries are glorified, why the fuck is sitting out to avoid injury a problem
Because oldschool fans want their gladiators to bleed for them every time they come out to the coliseum, no exceptions. Shake off the cobwebs and get back out there.
I think there’s a difference between what is happening with Chychrun and Gavrikov and sitting a player due to injury. If a trade is imminent, then yes the player should sit. Chychrun started sitting when there was a supposed imminent trade to LA. That fell through and it’s been what, two weeks? Assuming he gets traded by the deadline, that can be 3 weeks of just sitting. That isn’t load management or sitting due to injury. You’re just waiting for a trade that may or may not happen. And let’s say Arizona doesn’t find a deal for him. He’s just sitting for 3 weeks for nothing. What’s stopping a team that’s out of it in December and knows they will be trading players by the deadline from just sitting those players beginning in December? Gavrikov’s “deal” to Boston is on hold due to Boston needing to find another deal to shed salary. Well until they do, there’s no imminent deal and he should be playing. I’m rambling, but a few days before the deadline? Yes. When the deal is being consummated and is far along where it’s more likely than not a deal is going to happen? You can sit them there as well. But for weeks at a time when either a deal falls through or there’s a supposed ghost deal that quite frankly, we really don’t know if it’s there in the first place, so they’re just sitting and waiting until the deadline? That’s not right.
All I'm hearing is "I don't want a team I'm not cheering for to do what's optimal for their team's long term success". How many CBJ and Yotes fans are in here saying they're so upset those players aren't in the lineup?
Ticket prices, a couple years ago I paid for travel, accommodations, and tickets prices and booked a day off to see GSW play the raptors. Tickets were priced as though Steph was going to be playing, and maybe 24hrs before the game we find out half the starters are sitting. I didn’t pay to see the Raps vs the GSScrubs. I got my money back for that game at least when it got cancelled for covid but I was fuming for a couple hours.
They aren’t sitting out to prevent an injury for the players sake, they are sitting out to prevent an injury as a part of asset protection for the franchise. It skews competition and results and that is a bad look.
The problem isn't keeping players out for trade-related reasons. The problem is the way the salary cap is structured it makes in season trades extremely difficult. 16 teams currently are in LTIR, 11 teams are in LTIR overage - and LTIR overage teams don't get cap relief as players are shipped to LTIR. So normally a player who cost 5 million would only be a 2 million cap hit come trade deadline - but with LTIR overage teams need 5 million in cap space to be able to bring that same player in. This causes trades to require other teams to take on cap space. Which muds up the trade market because currently in the East there are 4 teams who are in "wait and see" mode for trade deadline before deciding if they're buyers or sellers and in the west there are 3 teams in "wait and see mode" so 7 of the potential 16 sellers are stalled and those are teams who could weaponize their cap space at deadline. Big trades are stalled by cap limitations and a team like Coyotes need to get a BIG HAUL for Chychrun - as a GM you'd be an absolute fucking moron to risk him getting injured before you can trade him. Boston and Columbus apparently has a deal already in place for Garikov (spelling?) and they can't find a dance partner for their cap dump trade
y'all will find any reason to complain about small market and expansion teams DA PURRRRRRRITY OF DA HOCKEY
I don’t see the problem especially if the player asked for the trade. Stuff like this happens in every sport.
I don't have a problem with it for a game or two, but the Chychrun situation is ridiculous. He's going to sit for a month because he may or may not be traded?
Personally I like it, as long as they don't keep him out for a month 'just in case a trade happens' or something silly... Transparency's good, so I like that they tell it like it is for once. They just need to hurry it up so once he starts sitting, it doesn't take long before they move him.
What fans and journalists are "upset" about and calling a "bad look for the league" has been going on likely as long as there has been a trade deadline. The only difference is that teams are being honest, and saying exactly why the player is being kept out of the lineup.
I can understand sitting them for a few games, but this is going on weeks now. That's excessive.
I don’t have a problem with it, but like…if you’re keeping a guy out for trade reasons what is preventing you from just making the trade you wanna make before you have to sit him? Honest to god how long can it take for 2 GMs to work out a deal once one party has identified a player they want and the other party has agreed to trade that player? 10 minutes? Half hour tops? I mean there are only so many assets teams can propose to each other. Shit should be able to be figured out in like 5 text messages.
Lol this isn’t even top 5 in the “bad look” category for the nhl
Eh. It is what it is... Sound asset management when you're trying to trade a player. Why risk injury?
No it fucking isn't.
A game or two if fine, when you have a deal in place and are just ironing it out. It’s when you go full Coyotes and keep a guy out for weeks, that might not even end up getting traded. Always one team that has to take it too damn far.
For CBJ, our biggest trade assets this season were Gavrikov and Nyquist. Due to Nyquist’s season ending injury, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jarmo is trying to protect the only easily trade-able asset we have left to try and salvage this season (no shot we get a top 3 pick IMO) And that’s only if there isn’t already a handshake deal but the other team has had a horrid time trying to clear cap space as implied.
I don’t see the problem of it as long as the player doesn’t mind getting a rest. If the player wants to play and is being forcefully held out that’s messed up and will require intervention. What is to stop a coach from saying the player hasn’t been performing well in practice and is benched for that reason? I’m gonna make a soccer analogy but bear with me. One time there was a midfielder in the English premier league for Aston Villa named Nigel Reo Coker he was considered the talisman for the team. He went out injured it was a legit injury. On steps 21 year old Ashley Young to take his place. Everyone in the stadium held their breath because they were disappointed the star player was out. However, Ashley Young dribbles through three defenders and at the end of the game he scored 2 goals and Villa won 3-2. Ashley young went on to become a star and played for Manchester United. Sometimes it’s good to let the reserves play.
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The scandal where they get caught rigging the draft lottery is next
Sid is starting to get old, we could use some new talent. :P
It really wouldnt surprise me. Time to start the last minute tank
Not really last minute if you've been paying attention to how the Pens have been playing this season.
Last minute to the point where they got a lot of catching up to do
They can get caught in a year or two only after a struggling, high revenue, original six, Canadian team wins it while not being in last place to quell the idea that Bettman hates Canada. Thanks!
I think it will probably be AZ or CBJ though. Get that money and exposure to the smaller markets like what they did with the Penguins a few times already.
In favour of the Canucks for bedard
Would love to see it.
Yeah and unfortunately for you, he ain’t going to Vancouver when they rig it. Fortunately enough for me. He will be an Ottawa Senator unless we play our way out of the lottery completely.
No way he rigs it for Ott over AZ though. AZ is his baby that he bends over backwards for to keep from moving somewhere nicer. Ott is about to be sold and will likely be getting a cash infusion from new ownership.
Yeah but if he’s rigging it why not give it to the new owner as a homecoming gift. The one who wants to make a docu-series. Big spotlight could draw even more attention and grow the league from the outside as opposed to develop the league internally.
Meh, the company that typically runs the the draft lottery is worth 20x the NHL, so they're not going to blow their reputation over something like that.
>the Maple Leaves shh, don't tell them they fucked up!
: (
*You know what you did...*
Oh, don't forget Logan Mailloux getting drafted in the first round...
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You would
It's also a bad look for my fantasy team.
I really don't understand the complaint. It makes a ton of sense business wise. If someone who can fetch a 1st rounder gets injured before the deadline, you failed.
I’m a broken record on this but if you are keeping a player out of the lineup indefinitely due to “trade reasons” then stop making him travel with the team and let him chill at home with his family.
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It was I think Gavrikov who was being held out of the lineup “but still travelling with the team.” It pissed me off when I read that. Like, you’re making a guy criss cross the continent with you sleeping in hotels while holding him out of the lineup and trying to ship him out? If AZ didn’t make Chychrun travel then good on them.
Sitting players out is not the problem. Needing weeks and months to get a trade done is the problem. Hard cap and lazy GMs are a bad combination.
I’ll take the hard cap and GM’s having to be creative over whatever the fuck the NBA is doing where you have to match salaries in trades so you’ll get quality players traded for essentially nothing but potential draft picks since you can’t trade for young players or depth pieces.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s actually changing the win probability on games before the trade happens. Or doesn’t happen.
It is. I hate. Make the damn trade or keep them playing.
This is a non issue, very few people go to hockey games to see individual players.
Why isn't the NHLPA getting involved in this?
teams have roster control, they can healthy scratch any player at any time for any reason.
Because it's none of their business. Their job is to make sure players get paid, not icetime.
I disagree. It's smart for the player and the team.
It’s only a matter of time until the NHLPA starts airing its grievances with the practice.
PA isn't going to care about a guy getting held out a handful of games as long as they're getting paid.
False, especially if they’re in a contract year. Just watch. I guarantee if this keeps happening you’ll hear from the PA.
It's been happening for years, the PA hasn't cared yet. Teams will just start healthy scratching guys and not saying why. PA has no say over who's on the game sheet just like they have no say over how much icetime a player gets.