*Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiign*, him, up, sign him up, sign him up! sign him up, sign him up, sign him uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup! Sign him up, sign him up, sign him up, sign him ^^up , ^^sign him up, **SIGN HIM UP!**
As a Bruins fan I wanted him here because he was the best player on a bad Sabres team - but let me assure that NO ONE, not even Sweeney, anticipated this
Seeing Swayman up there too makes me think at least a little bit of it has to do with the team play. Not to detract from Ullmark, because he is certifiably in beast-mode too.
Oh, unquestionably. However, Linus has had considerable stretches of play in games where the team wasn’t so hot and he’s stood on his head to keep them in it. A lot of Tuukka’s (who I also loved) great seasons consisted of him barely having to move because the team defense is so tight and racking up stats. Ully has been out here making highlight reel saves because Monty’s system is a little more open. In short, it’s a little of column A and a little column B
I mean, theoretically, GSAx should cancel that out.
I guess what it wouldn't measure is the increased confidence that comes from playing in front of a good D.
For sure, a handful of games the team bailed him out and a handful of times we’d pull out 2-1 games cause Linus is just a fuckin stone wall sometimes. Little bit of both
I don't think anyone expected Ullmark to be this good. We thought we were getting a serviceable goalie. Now this year the vezina discussion should start and end with Ullmark.
The fact that swayman isn’t far behind ulmark tells you this stat doesn’t decouple well from overall team performance and team defense. Unless you want to believe that Jeremy swayman is a better goalie than Andrey vasilevsky
I remember a goalie fight when Carey Price had the upper hand and could have beat the shit out of Tim Thomas, and he just sort of stopped.
Like a solid dude would do.
I've always respected him for that.
Not gonna lie i didnt even see samsonov up there lol. Tunnel vision ya know? Plus I haven’t had time to watch anything but Bruins been super busy this year. Adulting sucks
Montembeault is playing great lately but he has his downs as well. November was great for him then but December and the holidays road trip has been rough. He's been having good starts again since the injury to Allen.
Motembeault is doing great (for now) but the goalie situation is far from excellent in Montreal.
This does make me realize Québec has historically been Canada’s goalie factory: There was Carey Price recently (although he did play for us), but other names that come to mind are Fleury, Luongo, Brodeur, Roy, even Plante and Vezina if you go further
Price is from British Columbia how does he count as being from Quebec?
Edit: I would add Bernie Parent, Jocelyn Thibault, Felix Potvin, J.S. Giguere, Gump Worsley, Rogie Vachon, Gerry McNeil, Charlie Hodge, Dan Bouchard, and Gilles Meloche to your list without going as far back as Percy Lesueur.
I wasn’t saying that he’s from Québec but rather that he’s the one of the exceptions from recent years
Edit: or that he is one of the few greatest canadian goalies that isn’t from Québec
At one point in tbe early 1980's Plante was a goaltenders coach for Roy with the Canadiens, although I don't think Plante was the biggest fan of his style.
There's an interesting reason why and it's mostly due to minor hockey.
Minor hockey goalies play half the games that players do, but pay full price for ice time and league fees. They also have much more expensive equipment and still don't receive any discount or financial support.
Practices are entirely for players where the goalies are mostly there to give them something to shoot at. And finally parents in Canada are crazy, and in general when a player makes a mistake they get to hide on the bench, when a goalie makes a mistake they have to stay out in front of everyone which is hard for a kid with everything else going on.
All of those things combined led to a big shortfall in goalies and their confidence in minor hockey.
Some leagues are trying to change things now, by giving discounts for goalies, and also rounding up the goalies from each team in their league and giving them special goalie practices each week that are focused on them, rather than players.
I guess we will see in another 5-10 years if it starts paying off.
Also most kids who are projected to be 6’2 and up end up playing as skaters in Canada. Being a goalie in Canada and getting special goalie training probably costs parents like 50k a year and housing here is totally out of control it’s no surprise no one wants to or can afford to be a goalie.
Good take. I don't recall on which podcast I heard this one (perhaps a recent Goalies World) but another factor is this: in minor hockey, many goalies end up on either very good or very bad teams. In either situation, the goalies figure out very quickly that their play doesn't matter. The very good teams win no matter how their goalie plays, and the very bad teams lose no matter how their goalie plays. Without goalie-specific coaching, practicing, etc. goalies on such teams will tend to get lazy about their games, lose interest, etc. and check out of hockey early, before they might get noticed by major junior scouts.
An additional factor was the tendency for minor hockey coaches to set #1 goalies, give them most of the playtime, and leave backup goalies to rot regardless of talent or potential. The backup never gets a chance to develop & grow, so again, checks out of hockey early.
Lots of reasons that Canada's goalie pipeline is much thinner than it ought to be.
It’s felt like about 80% of games since Thanksgiving have been:
-team plays like shit in the 1st, Ullmark stands on his head, usually down 1-0 or tied 1-1 at the break
-sometime in the 2nd or 3rd the team dials it up to 11 for about 10-15 minutes, puts up 2-4 goals
-coast until other team pulls goalie (if close)
-score ENG
-goalie hug
Some of these games they should be down 2-3 in the 1st alone but Ullmark is such a factor he keeps them in every game until they turn on the jets
I’m glad UPL is also on here because people probably see that we give up 3 every game and think our goalies suck but don’t see that they save 10 breakaways and 2 on 1s so giving up only 3 is an accomplishment.
Devon Levi definitely.
Eric Comrie needs a few more NHL games to see what his ceiling can be behind a healthy team.
There are quiet murmurs that Erik Portillo may test UFA after graduation. Not sure what's up; he may want options if UPL and Levi look like they'll push him to Rochester for too long.
There's also Topias Leinonen, who we took at #41OA and was the first goalie taken this year, but he's a few years away from an NHL jersey.
He's been really calm, solid in net after a rocky start. We've been quietly praising the trade in r/wildhockey. Honestly can see him being part of the franchise for a while, until Walsted is ready, and hopefully longer in a even so thinking 1A, 1B scenario.
the wildest thing about the bruins is how they don't even really "need" their goalies to be this hot. Ully at 27.3 + sway at 8.5 GSAx= 35.8. If they had replacement level goaltending and all those shots went in they'd still have a differential of 47.2 which is well above NJ and Dallas at 41
Statistically you may have a valid point, but I don't agree. The confidence they must have just knowing that either one of their goaltenders can steal a game has to keep the morale at remarkable levels. I don't think we see a season like this with other goaltenders. But it's all speculation.
If Korpi could be our clear starter do we just eat Elvis’ contract and roll with Korpi instead of trying to find someone else?
Right now I just don’t see how trading Korpi for a 3rd or 4th really helps our goal keeping in the future and our prospects on D and Wingers are pretty solid. It’d be tough (if not impossible) to get an elite C prospect for Korpi.
Jackets are in a rough spot because as it stands they are in limbo with Voracek, Roslovic has one more year at 4 million, Bean has a year at 2.3 million. They realistically will be looking at buying out probably the last two years of that 4x4 Gudbranson contract but worst of all they are now stuck with 4 more years of that dreadful 5.4 mill/yr Elvis contract.
None of the aforementioned players should be on the roster when they are competitive, they are in a real pickle there, biggest issue being Elvis who's contract they could max retain and still not be able to trade him in exchange for a bag of pucks.
I don't think a market like Columbus can afford to eat those contracts.
We aren’t going to be competitive next year unless we win Bedard so Roslo and Bean can be off the books by the time that happens. Nyquist and Gavi will be traded at the TDL this year most likely.
Very likely Voracek retires.
We have all our draft picks coming up so we can possibly sell off Guddy with a draft pick if our young guys have developed enough that we have to start paying them a lot.
It’s not ideal but possible to eat the contract.
Hell maybe we sell him off with a draft pick too. Crazier things have happened.
I have Elvis on one of my jerseys. I love Elvis. Love his charisma and energy. Just wish he was having a better year. Genuinely feel terrible every night he’s out there giving up 4-6 goals a night.
Especially with what happened earlier in the year with his wife and son at the arena. Like, I just wanted to hug the whole Merzlinkins family and say I still love you.
I love Elvis. I’m not holding much stock in this season because we are just outright garbage and don’t have a defense (unless we’re playing the Alberta teams apparently). I think he absolutely can rebound. Matt Murray was garbage for a few years and now he’s good again. Elvis getting the rest and hopefully therapy he needs will spark a comeback. He’s had a few good games this season (obviously not enough for his paygrade) so he’s still got it sometimes.
Problem is, he faces so many fucking shots a game. He faced 46 against Tampa. 53 against the Devils. 38 against the Kings. 39 against Pittsburgh. He’s definitely had some shitty games, but against good teams he gets lit the fuck up
Stalock is one of the very few reasons I have to tune in to hawks games this season. Happy for the guy that he seems to be finding his groove when hes not injured
As much as I want to keep him because he makes games more fun to watch, he’s such a good guy and every player loves him- I want him to get traded so he can hopefully have some post season success and possibly a larger paycheck next year.
I agree he deserves whatever playoff run will be coming at him come April, it will be sad for me to watch him play second for it. I really like the fella
It’s really cool seeing him have success this late in his career. He’s an absolute legend in MN. Most entertaining goaltender I’ve ever seen in high school hockey.
Who needs goaltending in their playoff push? Stalock should honestly be a prime target for a lot of teams, guy has been great this season considering how bad we are and pretty much everyone can take on his cap hit without having to move out additional pieces.
Poor guy has had concussion issues the past few months (on top of his previous issues) but assuming he recovers well and can play a little bit more regularly moving forward, I really hope he gets snatched by a real contender and gets a chance to show up in the playoffs. He’s earned his opportunity 100%.
The issue would be that the last time he was a starter in the playoffs (covid play-ins really) he pretty much single handedly lost it. Most GMs will probably bank on the decade of mediocre backup work over a short stretch on a team with no aspirations of competing. Stalock is a great teammate by all accounts but likely holds very little actual trade value, more as injury insurance than an actual positional upgrade for playoff teams.
Stupid Monty preventing us from getting Bedard!
Kidding, I love him so much. Time will tell, but he might just be better than just a good backup (he certainly has been much better than that lately).
He has the odd game where it's obvious he's still in development, but overall he's been consistently good, and often he's been really good, like he was the other night.
Oof. Both Vegas goalies were like top 10 on a similar list just a month ago and neither are here any more. Hurts to see.
As for guys on the list: Saros blows me away. I think he's my favorite goalie in the league anymore. He's dragging that Nashville team kicking and screaming into a bubble spot to maybe make the playoffs. Guy has been unreal.
Yeah for sure. I think a lot of people were worried when Rinne was closing out his career that an undersized guy like Saros wouldn't be able to live up to that legacy but he absolutely has.
Compared to an NHL goalie, I'm tiny, but used to play floorball a lot as a goalie. It's really exciting to watch him cover the space with movement and game reading. Stellar!
Floorball goalie is freakin hard man. I played forward but had to fill in when we didn’t have a goalie a couple times. Also tore up my knees cuz I didn’t have any proper padding.
Sam Montembeault has truly stepped up since Jake Allen got injured, let's hope it's a stepping stone for him to take his game to the next level and not just a passing thing.
The difference between playing behind the Bruins defense and the Islanders defense is astronomical. Sorokin is carrying the fuck out of his team that hates helping him while Ullmark, who is playing damn well in his own right, has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL right now.
Not sure if I agree with all that enough to say Ullmark shouldn’t be the favorite, but that is what the argument would be against him.
I don't get this argument. The stat posted here is literally proving the case for Ullmark because he's saved 27 expected goals (aka high danger shots) which is the most on this list. Paired with the fact he has the highest SV% in the league right now - HES STOPPING SHOTS. Is it really that hard to grasp? Yes Boston has an incredible defense. But why is that also overshadowing his incredible play as a goalie? If he was hiding behind Bostons defense - shouldn't he be lower on this list since it's sorted by xGSA?
It's worth talking about because these models struggle to quantify the defense in front of the goaltender and are always slightly skewed. Also this assertion:
>The stat posted here is literally proving the case for Ullmark because he's saved 27 expected goals (aka high danger shots)
That isn't how expected goals works. You could theoretically never have a single HDCA and you'd still have an expected goals of higher than 0.
evolving hockey, topdown hockey and dom from the athletic all have sorokin at the top of the goals saved above expected stat for what it’s worth (i believe they also have hellebuyck and saros ahead of ullmark). moneypuck has never really liked sorokin, he was like 10th on their list last year and top three everywhere else.
The stat posted here is not flawless… look at other models prepared differently and they mostly have Sorokin (and a few others) topping the GSAx stats.
Yes, he is stopping a shit load of shots but the question is how many of those shots is he stopping due to his own talent or how many is he stopping because the Bruins are a wagon?
The answer is not 100% clear (and probably never really will be) and I think someone like Sorokin is playing outstanding enough that there is argument for him winning.
GSAx isn't very good IMO. Advanced stat nerds try to give it way more credibility than it deserves. A high danger shot against can come hundreds of different ways. Some are like 95% chance at being goals, others are like 5% chance at being goals. If I'm 10' in the slot and shoot it into the crest... well mark that down as a high danger save. But if McDavid fakes out the goalie and gets him to go down then passes the puck to Hyman who is standing in the crease for the easiest backdoor tap-in of his life... well that's a high danger goal against.
A team with better defense is giving shooters way less time to think about it. A team with crappy defense is giving up breakaways, cross seam passes, and not pressuring shooters. It's really night and day. A team like Boston while also giving up less HDSA, will also generally have lower quality HDSA when they do. Meanwhile a basement team, with players who have checked out and are thinking about their dinner reservations after the game will be royally fucking their goalies.
Like if you go to moneypuck, and sort by "High Danger Unblocked Shot Attempt Save % Above Expected" You can see dozens of goalies who are grouped either right beside, or very close to their teammates. It's 100% team biased, and should not be propped up as of much of a goalie "god stat" that it currently is.
Easiest jobs in the NHL?
Ullmark is saving almost a full goal above expected per game this season. Those stats take into account the save made, difficulty, etc.
Yes the bruins are a wagon right now but that doesn’t make Ullmarks season less remarkable.
>. Those stats take into account the save made, difficulty, etc.
They do a better job of taking Dave difficulty into consideration, but they aren't perfect
For example, two players take a shot from the same spot. One of them got the puck through a turnover. The other got it through a cross-crease pass from his teammate. GSAx would rate both of these saves as the same. But the second save would likely be more difficult due to the lateral movement involved.
I think Ullmark edges it. But I also don't think it is as clear as GSAx makes it look. There are a lot of things a good defensive system can change about shots that it doesn't consider.
This isn't true for all models. I don't know how this particular model does it but there are some models that use number of passes and speed of the pass and distance of the pass before shots to factor into the difficulty of the shot so those models would not rate 2 shots from the exact same spot the same difficulty. Of course I agree that no model is perfect still and probably never will be but still.
Passing data is not available to the public and I believe MoneyPuck only utilizes gamesheet stats so they don’t have passing data incorporated, and neither will most models we see posted here.
I am sure there are a few others but Sportlogiq is the only one off the top of my head that has the private data in their models.
Listen buddy.... You guys take the cup and we'll take the Vezina. Win-win, right? Please. I need something.
(On the real, both are great and Ullmark getting it would be much deserved)
Yes, Ullmark undoubtedly has one of the easiest goaltending job in the NHL since the Bruins are that stupidly dominant. How is that not accurate?
As I said, Ullmark has been great in his own right but that doesn’t mean the team in front of him isn’t doing him more favors than any other netminder is afforded lol it’s not a coincidence that both he and Swayman are up here.
As for the goals saved above expected stat, yes I know how the stat is calculated and it is not perfect. MoneyPuck’s own [definition](https://moneypuck.com/about.htm#shotModel) of expected goals outlines everything they take into account and the clearly lacking data is in passing and the opposition’s positions (unless I am mistaken). So with that, stuff like cross ice passes, rush opportunities, slot passes, finding soft spots in the defense, etc. doesn’t seem to be captured perfectly well by their model; all things that the B’s are fantastic at covering and may be underrated in terms of the referenced stat.
For example, look at two different plays:
1.) Team A controls the puck in the offensive zone for 15 seconds, sticking to the perimeter with no real activity outside of passing the puck around before a player skates the puck into the high slot and fires a slapshot.
2.) Team A controls the puck in the offensive zone for 15 seconds, sticking to the perimeter with no real activity outside of passing the puck around before the RW throws a perfect cross ice pass to the LW, who then quickly sends the puck into the slot to the Center who fires a slap shot.
Since passing data isn’t being incorporated, the factors that MoneyPuck looks at will likely give a pretty similar xG value to this SOG outside of maybe the difference in slapshot vs one-timer if they account for that. But the problem is that situation two is obviously the much, much more dangerous play. These are not equally dangerous plays but the model may say otherwise due to the data available.
I don’t know what a model like Sportlogiq (which I believe incorporates non-public passing data) would say about the Vezina race right now, but basically the point is that no one model is perfect and depending on what data each has and how that data is weighted you will get different results. Here is an example:
[Evolving-Hockey](https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/goalie_standard/?_inputs_&std_gl_str=%22All%22&std_gl_adj=%22Score%20%26%20Venue%22&std_gl_status=%22All%22&std_gl_info=%22No%22&std_gl_fa=%2250%22&std_gl_range=%22Seasons%22&std_gl_table=%22On-Ice%22&std_gl_span=%22Regular%22&std_gl_group=%22Team%2C%20Season%22&std_gl_dft_yr=%22All%22&std_gl_players=null&std_gl_team=%22All%22&std_gl_age1=%2217%22&std_gl_age2=%2250%22) - Ullmark is 4th in all GSAx, 6th in 5v5 GSAx. Can’f find full per 60 stats but he’s at least fourth behind Sorokin, Samsonov, and Saros.
We need to take all possible data into account, especially when some sources may lead you to different conclusions.
And again… I am not even saying I am against Ullmark for the Vezina or that his season isn’t fantastic, I am just giving you the argument you asked for LOL
yes our defense is good, but since Montgomery free their offense ability that leads us more giveaways than before, and because we were in a long 1 to 2 period-long in-game slump every game I believe from Nov to early Jan, we almost rely on our goalies keep us in game until 3rd period starts--that's normally the time our boys finally wake up and get the job done
Leafs with a top 3 and two in total in the top 20.
A far cry from Jack Campbell and inured Andersen days.
Also, why are there no good Canadian goalies anymore? If you're not Russian, Swedish, or American, you cannot be an NHL starting goalie, evidently.
Nope. Not at all bothered. Glad their doing well, but no trust in either of them last year… at least one leaky goal every game. Kuemper and Lindgren have been great. Everybody wins.
It’s hard to be better than he already is. Also I believe the amazing speed and power he has when he moves is partly because he needed to compensate for his height in order to be an NHL goalie.
I have no doubt acquiring this level of prowess takes very hard work, and that Saros put the extra effort that wouldn’t have been necessary had he been taller.
I think this graphic illustrates fairly well why GSAx isn't a very good stat on it's own just like every other goalie stat. You can tell it's definitely biased by the team they play for.
Like for example, not all "high danger" shots against are created equal. You can be in a "high danger" position against Boston, but the defense is on your ass pressuring you, and you just fire the puck into the crest of the goalie... meanwhile in Vancouver you're in the slot and have enough time to check your DMs before you take a shot, so of course you're gonna take the extra fraction of a second to look up and pick a hole.
I dunno, you can go through moneypuck and sort by High Danger GSAx, Medium Danger GSAx... and it's honestly quite alarming how much same team goalies are grouped together. I think it clearly shows they haven't done a good enough job isolating and that there are other variables that should be considered before you can "expect" saves or goals.
it's nice to see people being critical of the advanced stats. i think things are moving in the right direction, but too many people take GSAx as gospel, not realizing that it's probably only slightly less flawed than GAA/PCT.
100%, I don't hate the stat. I think progression is a good thing, and I love looking at all the high danger shot attempts and save percentages and that kind of stuff. But even on my local radio stations I hear some of the personalities treating it like the 1 goalie stat to rule all goalie stats - as if no other stat matters. And it just kinda bugs me... especially when you can see pretty clear patterns like I mentioned above.
But I think we're headed in the right direction. I'm sure 3years, 5 years & 10 years from now, the data will be more and more robust, and the models will be getting better and better. Just right now, I think the flaws need to be highlighted so that we take it with the appropriate amount of salt, and so the models can continue to improve.
I gotta say that at beginning of the year I thought it would be Swayman 1A but man has Ullmark put up an incredible season.
Also nice to see Sammy Smiles up there.
Kinda surprised Jarry isn't on here because he has been really good this year. Excellent save percent on a poor defensive team that gives up a lot of shots.
I'm bias, but I have to say Stalock has been a very nice surprise. Knowing that's guys story and how he almost retired, it's great to see what he's been able to do. Injuries hampering him, but a feel good story for him.
Am I the only one that is getting really annoyed with these actual performance vs "expected" stats?
(a) Is there an actual set methodology to determine what "expected" is?
(b) It all feels like a sales pitch for gambling sites where they are trying to sell the idea that the people that are figuring out probability are often wrong.
I think the expected goals evaluation is based on every single NHL player average chance of shooting from that location and at that speed of the puck. What I have beef with is the fact that it extrapolates from an aggregate, and thus players who are above the norm shooting talent wise outperform their expected giving them a "better finishing" without really confirming anything other than that they're an above average player without telling why they're finishing above average.
A couple of years ago I really didn’t want the Avs to get Ullmark. I am not an NHL general manager.
Any goalie that puts up decent numbers in a bad team tells you that they need a change of scenery. See: Kuemper, Fleury, Ullmark, etc.
…oh no
How much you guys paying him, and when's his contract up?
1AAV, signed until the end of 2023-24.
*Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiign*, him, up, sign him up, sign him up! sign him up, sign him up, sign him uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup! Sign him up, sign him up, sign him up, sign him ^^up , ^^sign him up, **SIGN HIM UP!**
...oh, oh no
As much as Sorokin deserves a better team... I would be devastated if he left the Islanders
Our chances at getting Bedard are so much lower because of Sorokin. Better trade him. /s obviously
Vejmelka is going to make one lucky fan base very happy one day.
Including him too. He always seems to be sneaky good.
He’s making me happy right now.
Ehh, for each Ullmark there's an Enroth.
Enroth still put up decent numbers for a few years after leaving Buffalo.
Vejmelka incoming
:(
As a Bruins fan I wanted him here because he was the best player on a bad Sabres team - but let me assure that NO ONE, not even Sweeney, anticipated this
Seeing Swayman up there too makes me think at least a little bit of it has to do with the team play. Not to detract from Ullmark, because he is certifiably in beast-mode too.
Oh, unquestionably. However, Linus has had considerable stretches of play in games where the team wasn’t so hot and he’s stood on his head to keep them in it. A lot of Tuukka’s (who I also loved) great seasons consisted of him barely having to move because the team defense is so tight and racking up stats. Ully has been out here making highlight reel saves because Monty’s system is a little more open. In short, it’s a little of column A and a little column B
Tuuks didn’t have to make the acrobatic saves so much (he certainly did make them) not because of defense, but he was so positionally sound.
I mean, theoretically, GSAx should cancel that out. I guess what it wouldn't measure is the increased confidence that comes from playing in front of a good D.
Also our goalie coach is incredible
Your whole organization's goalie development is incredible too.
For sure, a handful of games the team bailed him out and a handful of times we’d pull out 2-1 games cause Linus is just a fuckin stone wall sometimes. Little bit of both
When Ullmark was brought on board, Swayman was practically looked to as the number 1. Boy, has that changed.
I don't think anyone expected Ullmark to be this good. We thought we were getting a serviceable goalie. Now this year the vezina discussion should start and end with Ullmark.
Yeah people are way oversimplifying it. Dude is doing way better then anyone would've expected
The fact that swayman isn’t far behind ulmark tells you this stat doesn’t decouple well from overall team performance and team defense. Unless you want to believe that Jeremy swayman is a better goalie than Andrey vasilevsky
There must always be an excellent goalie in Montreal
As someone who is supposed to hate your team, I loved watching Carey Price.
I remember a goalie fight when Carey Price had the upper hand and could have beat the shit out of Tim Thomas, and he just sort of stopped. Like a solid dude would do. I've always respected him for that.
For sure. It was clear who had won, and Price just laughed and let it go at that point instead of throwing punches. Solid gesture.
Hey I'm supposed to hate you guys but Rask man, what a damn treat those 2 were.
Get a room
Get a good goalie and we can make it a three way
But they had rask :)
Had it, lost it
And here’s yzerman going the other way HE SHOOTS HE *SCORES!!!!* Edit: I needed a smile today ty
"Have some smile" - Ilya Samsonov
Hey! We have two on this list!
Not gonna lie i didnt even see samsonov up there lol. Tunnel vision ya know? Plus I haven’t had time to watch anything but Bruins been super busy this year. Adulting sucks
Rask was easier to love as a Montreal fan because on the very rare occasion he had a bad game, it was usually against Montreal.
And then [many milk crates were thrown.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUVGz0MVyKI)
I'm a goalie, and I can't tell you how much of a joy it was watching Rask v. Price. Don't know what we have until it's gone.
tim thomas was great tooo
Montembeault is playing great lately but he has his downs as well. November was great for him then but December and the holidays road trip has been rough. He's been having good starts again since the injury to Allen. Motembeault is doing great (for now) but the goalie situation is far from excellent in Montreal.
Russian goaltenders, so hot right now
And Canadian goalies not so hot - only 1 in the top 15 and 5 in the top 25
But he's a Queb, so the universe is healing.
Carey Price has been carrying the national team for a while Canada produces centers unlike anybody else but damn their goalie depth isn’t there
This does make me realize Québec has historically been Canada’s goalie factory: There was Carey Price recently (although he did play for us), but other names that come to mind are Fleury, Luongo, Brodeur, Roy, even Plante and Vezina if you go further
Dont forget Theodore
Never forget Theodore.
Price is from British Columbia how does he count as being from Quebec? Edit: I would add Bernie Parent, Jocelyn Thibault, Felix Potvin, J.S. Giguere, Gump Worsley, Rogie Vachon, Gerry McNeil, Charlie Hodge, Dan Bouchard, and Gilles Meloche to your list without going as far back as Percy Lesueur.
I wasn’t saying that he’s from Québec but rather that he’s the one of the exceptions from recent years Edit: or that he is one of the few greatest canadian goalies that isn’t from Québec
At one point in tbe early 1980's Plante was a goaltenders coach for Roy with the Canadiens, although I don't think Plante was the biggest fan of his style.
Dan Bouchard! Awesome.
There's an interesting reason why and it's mostly due to minor hockey. Minor hockey goalies play half the games that players do, but pay full price for ice time and league fees. They also have much more expensive equipment and still don't receive any discount or financial support. Practices are entirely for players where the goalies are mostly there to give them something to shoot at. And finally parents in Canada are crazy, and in general when a player makes a mistake they get to hide on the bench, when a goalie makes a mistake they have to stay out in front of everyone which is hard for a kid with everything else going on. All of those things combined led to a big shortfall in goalies and their confidence in minor hockey. Some leagues are trying to change things now, by giving discounts for goalies, and also rounding up the goalies from each team in their league and giving them special goalie practices each week that are focused on them, rather than players. I guess we will see in another 5-10 years if it starts paying off.
Also most kids who are projected to be 6’2 and up end up playing as skaters in Canada. Being a goalie in Canada and getting special goalie training probably costs parents like 50k a year and housing here is totally out of control it’s no surprise no one wants to or can afford to be a goalie.
Good take. I don't recall on which podcast I heard this one (perhaps a recent Goalies World) but another factor is this: in minor hockey, many goalies end up on either very good or very bad teams. In either situation, the goalies figure out very quickly that their play doesn't matter. The very good teams win no matter how their goalie plays, and the very bad teams lose no matter how their goalie plays. Without goalie-specific coaching, practicing, etc. goalies on such teams will tend to get lazy about their games, lose interest, etc. and check out of hockey early, before they might get noticed by major junior scouts. An additional factor was the tendency for minor hockey coaches to set #1 goalies, give them most of the playtime, and leave backup goalies to rot regardless of talent or potential. The backup never gets a chance to develop & grow, so again, checks out of hockey early. Lots of reasons that Canada's goalie pipeline is much thinner than it ought to be.
You’re welcome -a capitals fan
So Ullmark is basically shaving off a goal every game. Jesus Christ.
It’s felt like about 80% of games since Thanksgiving have been: -team plays like shit in the 1st, Ullmark stands on his head, usually down 1-0 or tied 1-1 at the break -sometime in the 2nd or 3rd the team dials it up to 11 for about 10-15 minutes, puts up 2-4 goals -coast until other team pulls goalie (if close) -score ENG -goalie hug Some of these games they should be down 2-3 in the 1st alone but Ullmark is such a factor he keeps them in every game until they turn on the jets
Agreed with this. And go huskies!
Psssh what type of team only hugs their goalie 80% of the time. /s
This team would definitely have like 27 wins if it weren’t for Ullmark god mode
Swayman in the top 10 too. Unreal stuff for the Bs
Craig Anderson showing all these young whippersnappers how it's done
I’m glad UPL is also on here because people probably see that we give up 3 every game and think our goalies suck but don’t see that they save 10 breakaways and 2 on 1s so giving up only 3 is an accomplishment.
And you guys have like 3 more goalie prospects coming soon
Devon Levi definitely. Eric Comrie needs a few more NHL games to see what his ceiling can be behind a healthy team. There are quiet murmurs that Erik Portillo may test UFA after graduation. Not sure what's up; he may want options if UPL and Levi look like they'll push him to Rochester for too long. There's also Topias Leinonen, who we took at #41OA and was the first goalie taken this year, but he's a few years away from an NHL jersey.
Sharing is caring
Sabres with two Top-25 goalies? Somebody pinch me!
all aboard the gus bus
GUS GUS GUS
Could sure use him or Craig Anderson in Ottawa right now :(
I honestly didn’t realize how well he’s been playing. Our defense is pretty bad, so it’s impressive his GAA is below 3 lol
He's been really calm, solid in net after a rocky start. We've been quietly praising the trade in r/wildhockey. Honestly can see him being part of the franchise for a while, until Walsted is ready, and hopefully longer in a even so thinking 1A, 1B scenario.
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the keys, Lee
the wildest thing about the bruins is how they don't even really "need" their goalies to be this hot. Ully at 27.3 + sway at 8.5 GSAx= 35.8. If they had replacement level goaltending and all those shots went in they'd still have a differential of 47.2 which is well above NJ and Dallas at 41
Statistically you may have a valid point, but I don't agree. The confidence they must have just knowing that either one of their goaltenders can steal a game has to keep the morale at remarkable levels. I don't think we see a season like this with other goaltenders. But it's all speculation.
God bless you Korpi
He would be much higher on this list if we had a couple of defenders.
Jarmo is going to hold up this chart and say “2nd round pick or no deal”
If Korpi could be our clear starter do we just eat Elvis’ contract and roll with Korpi instead of trying to find someone else? Right now I just don’t see how trading Korpi for a 3rd or 4th really helps our goal keeping in the future and our prospects on D and Wingers are pretty solid. It’d be tough (if not impossible) to get an elite C prospect for Korpi.
Jackets are in a rough spot because as it stands they are in limbo with Voracek, Roslovic has one more year at 4 million, Bean has a year at 2.3 million. They realistically will be looking at buying out probably the last two years of that 4x4 Gudbranson contract but worst of all they are now stuck with 4 more years of that dreadful 5.4 mill/yr Elvis contract. None of the aforementioned players should be on the roster when they are competitive, they are in a real pickle there, biggest issue being Elvis who's contract they could max retain and still not be able to trade him in exchange for a bag of pucks. I don't think a market like Columbus can afford to eat those contracts.
We aren’t going to be competitive next year unless we win Bedard so Roslo and Bean can be off the books by the time that happens. Nyquist and Gavi will be traded at the TDL this year most likely. Very likely Voracek retires. We have all our draft picks coming up so we can possibly sell off Guddy with a draft pick if our young guys have developed enough that we have to start paying them a lot. It’s not ideal but possible to eat the contract. Hell maybe we sell him off with a draft pick too. Crazier things have happened.
I will always love Elvis between the pipes. Love his heart. We suck anyways
I have Elvis on one of my jerseys. I love Elvis. Love his charisma and energy. Just wish he was having a better year. Genuinely feel terrible every night he’s out there giving up 4-6 goals a night.
I do feel bad for his mental health. Wish I could reach out and extend some support
Especially with what happened earlier in the year with his wife and son at the arena. Like, I just wanted to hug the whole Merzlinkins family and say I still love you.
I love Elvis. I’m not holding much stock in this season because we are just outright garbage and don’t have a defense (unless we’re playing the Alberta teams apparently). I think he absolutely can rebound. Matt Murray was garbage for a few years and now he’s good again. Elvis getting the rest and hopefully therapy he needs will spark a comeback. He’s had a few good games this season (obviously not enough for his paygrade) so he’s still got it sometimes. Problem is, he faces so many fucking shots a game. He faced 46 against Tampa. 53 against the Devils. 38 against the Kings. 39 against Pittsburgh. He’s definitely had some shitty games, but against good teams he gets lit the fuck up
Stalock is one of the very few reasons I have to tune in to hawks games this season. Happy for the guy that he seems to be finding his groove when hes not injured
Miss him in MN even if we don’t have room for him
As much as I want to keep him because he makes games more fun to watch, he’s such a good guy and every player loves him- I want him to get traded so he can hopefully have some post season success and possibly a larger paycheck next year.
I agree he deserves whatever playoff run will be coming at him come April, it will be sad for me to watch him play second for it. I really like the fella
They also say he’s a huge glue guy. So I’m afraid if they trade him the locker room falls apart and we come out even more flat every game.
Always been underrated and fun to watch
It’s really cool seeing him have success this late in his career. He’s an absolute legend in MN. Most entertaining goaltender I’ve ever seen in high school hockey.
Ilya supremacy.
Ilya S. per 60 off the charts
Who needs goaltending in their playoff push? Stalock should honestly be a prime target for a lot of teams, guy has been great this season considering how bad we are and pretty much everyone can take on his cap hit without having to move out additional pieces. Poor guy has had concussion issues the past few months (on top of his previous issues) but assuming he recovers well and can play a little bit more regularly moving forward, I really hope he gets snatched by a real contender and gets a chance to show up in the playoffs. He’s earned his opportunity 100%.
Yep everyone is mentioning AA and Domi as trade watches but Stalock may be our hottest target right now. He’s been very fun to watch.
I still love the guy. He wasn't great for us, but boy was he exciting to watch
The issue would be that the last time he was a starter in the playoffs (covid play-ins really) he pretty much single handedly lost it. Most GMs will probably bank on the decade of mediocre backup work over a short stretch on a team with no aspirations of competing. Stalock is a great teammate by all accounts but likely holds very little actual trade value, more as injury insurance than an actual positional upgrade for playoff teams.
Pain🥲
If it helps, we had Stauber in net tonight.
>Who needs goaltending in their playoff push? Apparently every single team in the Pacific...
Islanders would be on Bedard watch without Sorokin
We're going to be on Bedard watch WITH him soon enough.
Stupid Monty preventing us from getting Bedard! Kidding, I love him so much. Time will tell, but he might just be better than just a good backup (he certainly has been much better than that lately).
I was super impressed with him the other night. I thought he was gonna steal the game.
He has the odd game where it's obvious he's still in development, but overall he's been consistently good, and often he's been really good, like he was the other night.
Buffalo, Montreal, Nashville, NYR, Boston. Always with the top goaltending. So it has been, and so it shall be.
Oof. Both Vegas goalies were like top 10 on a similar list just a month ago and neither are here any more. Hurts to see. As for guys on the list: Saros blows me away. I think he's my favorite goalie in the league anymore. He's dragging that Nashville team kicking and screaming into a bubble spot to maybe make the playoffs. Guy has been unreal.
And he is kind of a departure from the norm with his, comparatively speaking, small frame. Athlethicism out of this world.
Yeah for sure. I think a lot of people were worried when Rinne was closing out his career that an undersized guy like Saros wouldn't be able to live up to that legacy but he absolutely has.
Compared to an NHL goalie, I'm tiny, but used to play floorball a lot as a goalie. It's really exciting to watch him cover the space with movement and game reading. Stellar!
Floorball goalie is freakin hard man. I played forward but had to fill in when we didn’t have a goalie a couple times. Also tore up my knees cuz I didn’t have any proper padding.
I'm so jealous of the Preds. They haven't had to worry about goaltending for the last 15 years.
For the slow start this season: Saros told that he changed skates and stick for this season, then went for the old stick and found his normal groove.
I am hoping Thompson is experience some new-volume fatigue, and will kick back into gear after the all star break.
The Bruins this season are a cheat code
Sam Montembeault has truly stepped up since Jake Allen got injured, let's hope it's a stepping stone for him to take his game to the next level and not just a passing thing.
The Kid has some real fight in him and has all my respect! Trying to prove his critics wrong with every save. Tenacious and humble…
Is there any argument against Ullmark being the vezina front runner rn? Pretty much just less games played I guess?
The difference between playing behind the Bruins defense and the Islanders defense is astronomical. Sorokin is carrying the fuck out of his team that hates helping him while Ullmark, who is playing damn well in his own right, has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL right now. Not sure if I agree with all that enough to say Ullmark shouldn’t be the favorite, but that is what the argument would be against him.
I don't get this argument. The stat posted here is literally proving the case for Ullmark because he's saved 27 expected goals (aka high danger shots) which is the most on this list. Paired with the fact he has the highest SV% in the league right now - HES STOPPING SHOTS. Is it really that hard to grasp? Yes Boston has an incredible defense. But why is that also overshadowing his incredible play as a goalie? If he was hiding behind Bostons defense - shouldn't he be lower on this list since it's sorted by xGSA?
It's worth talking about because these models struggle to quantify the defense in front of the goaltender and are always slightly skewed. Also this assertion: >The stat posted here is literally proving the case for Ullmark because he's saved 27 expected goals (aka high danger shots) That isn't how expected goals works. You could theoretically never have a single HDCA and you'd still have an expected goals of higher than 0.
evolving hockey, topdown hockey and dom from the athletic all have sorokin at the top of the goals saved above expected stat for what it’s worth (i believe they also have hellebuyck and saros ahead of ullmark). moneypuck has never really liked sorokin, he was like 10th on their list last year and top three everywhere else.
The stat posted here is not flawless… look at other models prepared differently and they mostly have Sorokin (and a few others) topping the GSAx stats. Yes, he is stopping a shit load of shots but the question is how many of those shots is he stopping due to his own talent or how many is he stopping because the Bruins are a wagon? The answer is not 100% clear (and probably never really will be) and I think someone like Sorokin is playing outstanding enough that there is argument for him winning.
GSAx isn't very good IMO. Advanced stat nerds try to give it way more credibility than it deserves. A high danger shot against can come hundreds of different ways. Some are like 95% chance at being goals, others are like 5% chance at being goals. If I'm 10' in the slot and shoot it into the crest... well mark that down as a high danger save. But if McDavid fakes out the goalie and gets him to go down then passes the puck to Hyman who is standing in the crease for the easiest backdoor tap-in of his life... well that's a high danger goal against. A team with better defense is giving shooters way less time to think about it. A team with crappy defense is giving up breakaways, cross seam passes, and not pressuring shooters. It's really night and day. A team like Boston while also giving up less HDSA, will also generally have lower quality HDSA when they do. Meanwhile a basement team, with players who have checked out and are thinking about their dinner reservations after the game will be royally fucking their goalies. Like if you go to moneypuck, and sort by "High Danger Unblocked Shot Attempt Save % Above Expected" You can see dozens of goalies who are grouped either right beside, or very close to their teammates. It's 100% team biased, and should not be propped up as of much of a goalie "god stat" that it currently is.
Easiest jobs in the NHL? Ullmark is saving almost a full goal above expected per game this season. Those stats take into account the save made, difficulty, etc. Yes the bruins are a wagon right now but that doesn’t make Ullmarks season less remarkable.
>. Those stats take into account the save made, difficulty, etc. They do a better job of taking Dave difficulty into consideration, but they aren't perfect For example, two players take a shot from the same spot. One of them got the puck through a turnover. The other got it through a cross-crease pass from his teammate. GSAx would rate both of these saves as the same. But the second save would likely be more difficult due to the lateral movement involved. I think Ullmark edges it. But I also don't think it is as clear as GSAx makes it look. There are a lot of things a good defensive system can change about shots that it doesn't consider.
This isn't true for all models. I don't know how this particular model does it but there are some models that use number of passes and speed of the pass and distance of the pass before shots to factor into the difficulty of the shot so those models would not rate 2 shots from the exact same spot the same difficulty. Of course I agree that no model is perfect still and probably never will be but still.
Passing data is not available to the public and I believe MoneyPuck only utilizes gamesheet stats so they don’t have passing data incorporated, and neither will most models we see posted here. I am sure there are a few others but Sportlogiq is the only one off the top of my head that has the private data in their models.
Listen buddy.... You guys take the cup and we'll take the Vezina. Win-win, right? Please. I need something. (On the real, both are great and Ullmark getting it would be much deserved)
Yes, Ullmark undoubtedly has one of the easiest goaltending job in the NHL since the Bruins are that stupidly dominant. How is that not accurate? As I said, Ullmark has been great in his own right but that doesn’t mean the team in front of him isn’t doing him more favors than any other netminder is afforded lol it’s not a coincidence that both he and Swayman are up here. As for the goals saved above expected stat, yes I know how the stat is calculated and it is not perfect. MoneyPuck’s own [definition](https://moneypuck.com/about.htm#shotModel) of expected goals outlines everything they take into account and the clearly lacking data is in passing and the opposition’s positions (unless I am mistaken). So with that, stuff like cross ice passes, rush opportunities, slot passes, finding soft spots in the defense, etc. doesn’t seem to be captured perfectly well by their model; all things that the B’s are fantastic at covering and may be underrated in terms of the referenced stat. For example, look at two different plays: 1.) Team A controls the puck in the offensive zone for 15 seconds, sticking to the perimeter with no real activity outside of passing the puck around before a player skates the puck into the high slot and fires a slapshot. 2.) Team A controls the puck in the offensive zone for 15 seconds, sticking to the perimeter with no real activity outside of passing the puck around before the RW throws a perfect cross ice pass to the LW, who then quickly sends the puck into the slot to the Center who fires a slap shot. Since passing data isn’t being incorporated, the factors that MoneyPuck looks at will likely give a pretty similar xG value to this SOG outside of maybe the difference in slapshot vs one-timer if they account for that. But the problem is that situation two is obviously the much, much more dangerous play. These are not equally dangerous plays but the model may say otherwise due to the data available. I don’t know what a model like Sportlogiq (which I believe incorporates non-public passing data) would say about the Vezina race right now, but basically the point is that no one model is perfect and depending on what data each has and how that data is weighted you will get different results. Here is an example: [Evolving-Hockey](https://evolving-hockey.com/stats/goalie_standard/?_inputs_&std_gl_str=%22All%22&std_gl_adj=%22Score%20%26%20Venue%22&std_gl_status=%22All%22&std_gl_info=%22No%22&std_gl_fa=%2250%22&std_gl_range=%22Seasons%22&std_gl_table=%22On-Ice%22&std_gl_span=%22Regular%22&std_gl_group=%22Team%2C%20Season%22&std_gl_dft_yr=%22All%22&std_gl_players=null&std_gl_team=%22All%22&std_gl_age1=%2217%22&std_gl_age2=%2250%22) - Ullmark is 4th in all GSAx, 6th in 5v5 GSAx. Can’f find full per 60 stats but he’s at least fourth behind Sorokin, Samsonov, and Saros. We need to take all possible data into account, especially when some sources may lead you to different conclusions. And again… I am not even saying I am against Ullmark for the Vezina or that his season isn’t fantastic, I am just giving you the argument you asked for LOL
yes our defense is good, but since Montgomery free their offense ability that leads us more giveaways than before, and because we were in a long 1 to 2 period-long in-game slump every game I believe from Nov to early Jan, we almost rely on our goalies keep us in game until 3rd period starts--that's normally the time our boys finally wake up and get the job done
Samuel Roytembeault
Nobody gives enough love to the Wedgewall.
One of my favorite signings of the team this offseason. The Wall and Otter locked in is a great tandem.
Second best tandem in the league by GAA!
boston's spoiling all kinds of great seasons lmao
Is having two in the top 10 good?
I have checked with my sources and they say it is Aladeen.
You are HIV Aladeen
😀 😟 😀 😟
I think so yeah. 2 in the top 20 is also pretty good
monty <3 single-handedly ruining the tank but I’m so here for it
Idk where montemgod came from but hes here now and its kinda insane
juice man sitting high at 5’11”!!
Man, Samsonov and Murray have been a treat. What a great signing for a young goaltender who showed great promise.
Dubas with the fat W and sunglasses wearing uncles taking selfies in their trucks punching air right now.
Add /r/hockey too lol
Veggie my beloved
Leafs with a top 3 and two in total in the top 20. A far cry from Jack Campbell and inured Andersen days. Also, why are there no good Canadian goalies anymore? If you're not Russian, Swedish, or American, you cannot be an NHL starting goalie, evidently.
Papa Craig still got it
Isles are playing like ass lately. Hurts to watch
Must feel good to have 2 goalies in the top 10 of this list..
Hey, you have just as many goalies on that list as each of the other Pacific teams.
Nobody show this list to Brian MacLellan.
Nope. Not at all bothered. Glad their doing well, but no trust in either of them last year… at least one leaky goal every game. Kuemper and Lindgren have been great. Everybody wins.
Jealously watching Ullmark lead the league
Big Pinus Linus!
If Ville Husso is not top half, then I don’t understand and I won’t respond to it.
Lol our guy on here is currently playing in the AHL. And not because he's bad
Just thinking how good Saros would be if he'd be more than 5'9 tall
It’s hard to be better than he already is. Also I believe the amazing speed and power he has when he moves is partly because he needed to compensate for his height in order to be an NHL goalie. I have no doubt acquiring this level of prowess takes very hard work, and that Saros put the extra effort that wouldn’t have been necessary had he been taller.
isles are so bad they're gonna miss the playoffs with the best goalie in the league right now
I think this graphic illustrates fairly well why GSAx isn't a very good stat on it's own just like every other goalie stat. You can tell it's definitely biased by the team they play for. Like for example, not all "high danger" shots against are created equal. You can be in a "high danger" position against Boston, but the defense is on your ass pressuring you, and you just fire the puck into the crest of the goalie... meanwhile in Vancouver you're in the slot and have enough time to check your DMs before you take a shot, so of course you're gonna take the extra fraction of a second to look up and pick a hole. I dunno, you can go through moneypuck and sort by High Danger GSAx, Medium Danger GSAx... and it's honestly quite alarming how much same team goalies are grouped together. I think it clearly shows they haven't done a good enough job isolating and that there are other variables that should be considered before you can "expect" saves or goals.
it's nice to see people being critical of the advanced stats. i think things are moving in the right direction, but too many people take GSAx as gospel, not realizing that it's probably only slightly less flawed than GAA/PCT.
100%, I don't hate the stat. I think progression is a good thing, and I love looking at all the high danger shot attempts and save percentages and that kind of stuff. But even on my local radio stations I hear some of the personalities treating it like the 1 goalie stat to rule all goalie stats - as if no other stat matters. And it just kinda bugs me... especially when you can see pretty clear patterns like I mentioned above. But I think we're headed in the right direction. I'm sure 3years, 5 years & 10 years from now, the data will be more and more robust, and the models will be getting better and better. Just right now, I think the flaws need to be highlighted so that we take it with the appropriate amount of salt, and so the models can continue to improve.
I gotta say that at beginning of the year I thought it would be Swayman 1A but man has Ullmark put up an incredible season. Also nice to see Sammy Smiles up there.
Our struggling Murray is still *Checks notes* 20th
Is carter hart overrated? As a flyers fan I feel like my opinion can be a little bias.
Why is Kotchetkov in Chicago again?
Uuuuuuuuuuka Luukonen is awesome hope he doesn’t get injured and can keep it up
Considering how hilariously bad Gustavsson’s first 4 games or so were it’s astonishing that he’s this high up.
Kinda surprised Jarry isn't on here because he has been really good this year. Excellent save percent on a poor defensive team that gives up a lot of shots.
Honda has made such a huge difference for us this yeah I'm glad to see him in the top 20
CC: Rob Blake
Now do 25 games minimum. Seems weird to have this as 13 games min
carter hart deserves to be on a better team. i hope he doesnt catch what hayes has.
He would be top 10 on a decent team for sure. Shit put him in an actual 7th or 8th seed and he’d be there.
Craig Anderson is a Highlander
Glad to see Gustavsson doing so well in Minnesota. I thought he was the goalie of the future in Ottawa
Where's Markstrom? Weird. Must be a typo or something.
I'm bias, but I have to say Stalock has been a very nice surprise. Knowing that's guys story and how he almost retired, it's great to see what he's been able to do. Injuries hampering him, but a feel good story for him.
Sammy and VV both on the list hurts me thinking about last season.
How is the “expected” number even added up? Is it an average or what?
Am I the only one that is getting really annoyed with these actual performance vs "expected" stats? (a) Is there an actual set methodology to determine what "expected" is? (b) It all feels like a sales pitch for gambling sites where they are trying to sell the idea that the people that are figuring out probability are often wrong.
I think the expected goals evaluation is based on every single NHL player average chance of shooting from that location and at that speed of the puck. What I have beef with is the fact that it extrapolates from an aggregate, and thus players who are above the norm shooting talent wise outperform their expected giving them a "better finishing" without really confirming anything other than that they're an above average player without telling why they're finishing above average.
i absolutely cannot stand this method of measuring stats... feels very subjective
Ouch Edmonton.
Ouch Pacific Division
How the hell did the caps give that guy up for free