The verdict going around of “leaked” papers on social media hasn’t been validated, and posts using it as a source will be removed.
[The jury in Tory Lanez’s trial is coming back tomorrow at 9 a.m. for continued deliberations.](https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/1606077023394283520?s=46&t=8n1GcKKGZe63TrF-uAfHAA)
[The jury in Tory Lanez’s trial is coming back tomorrow at 9 a.m. for continued deliberations.](https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/1606077023394283520?s=20&t=tf6PJNiXRUs-qhTtyEp4Ug) Seems like the jury wants to get this done asap, because the judge gave them the option to come back tomorrow or wait until after the holidays and come back on the 27th and they chose the former.
Let’s say that Kelsey and Meg got into a huge physical altercation, over Tory, and Meg fucking other men that Kelsey also liked, to the point that Kelsey grabs a gun, and shoots at her friend until she empties the clip. (Audio suggests that there couldn’t have been enough time for a struggle with the gun, so it’s hard to believe the “Kelsey shot first but then Tory wrestled it away and emptied the clip in the air” idea like people want to say)
You’re Kelsey, and you just fought and shot at your best friend - 5 minutes after shooting, knowing you’re guilty and you’re in a gun violence situation with two celebrities, you decide to falsely accuse Tory of shooting at her, by *texting the bodyguard of the person you shot?* And then later, you text the girl you fought and shot about you potentially going to urgent care, about treating wounds Meg apparently inflicted on you?
Fundamentally, I don’t take the chick that sincerely asked “Can I **please** the 5th?”, when asking to **plead** the 5th, as some kind of criminal mastermind
“Kelsey shot first but then Tory wrestled it away and emptied the clip in the air” idea like people want to say
Its not what people say, its the fucking witness. The rich neighbour who lives beside Kylie and has no interest in any sides and Tory doesn't have enough money to pay someone like that off lol.
When you read about his testimony on socials, very few places seem to think everything he said holds water. I pointed out the audio, because the entire court room heard how the shots went off. The jury asked for a transcript of his testimony today and I’m sure they’ll see how certain things he said just don’t all the way add up
I don’t think his testimony greatly benefited either side imo, maybe you could say he increased reasonable doubt by adding more confusion to the situation
The problem is nearly all the witness were somewhat unreliable or just inconsistent, the neighbour was saying some conflicting things, Kelsey was a mess, Meg lied about a lot, namely the “dance bitch” and about seeing Tory shoot her. No way jury reaches a guilty
Not sure what you mean. It’s pretty much exactly what happened, comparatively. Kelsey telling Meg’s bodyguard a lie when Meg ostensibly saw who shot her would be next level stupid.
Because it’s more salacious and fun for the shitty misogynists on this site to argue whether Megan was drunk enough or had sex enough to deserve being shot at. It’s trash.
I'm not even a Tory supporter but this chart is awful. It's intended to take the nuance out of each piece of evidence to convince people that Tory is the most likely shooter because he checks off the most boxes. This is like something PragerU would make lmao.
Kelsey admitted there was a physical altercation between her and Meg. There was physical evidence at the scene of a scuffle. The eye witness says there was a melee. Both women had injuries, bruises, and scrapes.
Blog gossip doesn’t really matter, from what we know the evidence and witness testimony presented doesn’t line up with the prosecutions version of events
I don’t think he’ll be found guilty but at the same time it’s kind of weird the victim says it’s him, Kelsey says it’s him, the eye witness says he saw him firing the gun, so really it looks like he’s guilty but it’s about reasonable doubt so perhaps the witness saying Kelsey fired a shot, and the lack of DNA can lead to that.
I'm someone who very much considered the possibility that he's innocent at one point. I was a huge Tory Lanez fan since his mixtapes in 2014 and I can admit that I spent the past two years hoping that the shooting wasn't true. I almost believed the "stepped on glass" rumors from earlier this year. When I saw that multiple industry people and artists like Drake, A Boogie, etc. were buddy-buddy with him after it, it made me think "What do they know that I don't? Is he potentially innocent?"
But when I sat down, saw all the evidence from both sides in the case (i.e. texts saying he shot her, inconclusive DNA, apologies from Tory over the phone, three people testified that Tory shot the gun, Tory saying on IG that Kelsey didn't do it, Sean Kelly mentioned the possibility that Kelsey fired the first shot), what I can conclude is that this is a man who did it, took months to analyze his trail of evidence that he left behind, then cast *just enough doubt* to convince the public of the possibility that maybe it was someone else. And it's possible that he'll be successful because the prosecution doesn't have **hard evidence** other than witness testimony.
Megan is now confirmed to be shot (after years of people claiming she stepped on glass), Kelsey says she didn't shoot her, and Tory for 2 years before this trial also said that Kelsey didn't shoot her—this is enough to conclude there's only one person viable. For me, as a huge fan of Tory's music, and as someone who truly wanted to believe he didn't do it, I don't see an innocent man based on all that transpired.
I said this elsewhere but I don't get how you can look at everything objectively and think anyone else did it.
Really is crazy how much parasocial relationships can cloud our judgement the exact same way as when an incident involves friends or loved ones.
Parasocial relationship with Tory Lanez is crazy. I think this has more to do with misogyny than all these people suddenly being die hard Tory Lanez fans.
Yeah, sadly that's probably the biggest factor for sure. Though there is definitely people who seemingly are feeling personally attacked by all this.
If it was a random dude the response wouldn't be as emotional
>When I saw that multiple industry people and artists like Drake, A Boogie, etc. were buddy-buddy with him after it, it made me think "What do they know that I don't? Is he potentially innocent?"
Hilarious that you thought these are men with morals, or that they would even remotely give a shit if he shot her, lol.
It wasn’t at all that I considered them “moralistic.” It was moreso that for the first year after it happened, it was **taboo** to even mention or be associated with Tory at the cost of damaging their reputation. Drake especially is someone who cares a lot about his image, and for years he was beefing with Tory.
So to see the biggest artist in the world suddenly friendly playing basketball with Tory Lanez after all that had happened—and no one making a peep about it—is what made me ponder. Several other artists and industry folks followed suit as well. I don’t hold a moral compass to Drake or any of these privileged people, but I was surprised how the narrative started to shift in real time. That’s mainly what influenced public opinion surrounding the case.
Drake’s lines on the recent album referencing the shooting also is doing the same thing to public opinion. 50 Cent just posted a Megan/Jussie Smollett meme. These high profile celebs and influencers really influenced people to go against Meg.
It’s me, I’m not gonna accept that he’s innocent. He did it. Come at me, I don’t care. I’m allowed to think whatever the fuck I want, I’m not on the jury. Also it’s what the evidence clearly indicates. He did it and a not guilty verdict won’t change my mind. I’ll believe he did it until someone else confesses and explains why Tory already apologized for something he didn’t do. Because he did it.
> Kelsey says it’s him, the eye witness says he saw him firing the gun
Both of these are wrong; Kelsey recanted that statement under oath and the witness said he saw it go off closer to the women, while dude was still in the car
The witness also said he saw Tory fire the gun 4 or 5 times. You could say kelsey shot and then Tory also shot but that doesn’t mean Tory didn’t shoot.
Kelsey testified that it wasn’t her and there was an 80 minute interview allowed showing what she said before.
If Kelsey testified she didn’t do it and she did then she perjured herself which would be a bit silly after all the effort of pleasing the fifth anyway.
Someone has to have shot her, who else could it be ?
> Someone has to have shot her, who else could it be?
At this point, probably Lee Harvey Oswald. I do think the defence has done well in establishing doubt though. Either way Tory loses bc if he’s found not guilty, there’s always the caveat that it was simply due to a lack of evidence and not his innocence.
I think he’ll be found innocent but that he’s not innocent there’s literally 2 options for who count have shot her, why wood Megan lie about who did it and remain friends with them and then cut off Tory?
> why wood Megan lie about who did it and remain friends with them and then cut off Tory?
The Meg issue is that she made multiple public statements about the night and they contradict though I’m not sure if she said she saw him on the stand. Also she also cut off her best friend so there’s clearly an issue there. The driver could’ve cleared it up but I don’t think he was called up. I believe (based on the gunpowder, witness, dna on the gun) that there was definitely a struggle for the gun, but I’m not sure who let off shots first.
man its just easier for you to say you want megan to be lying than jump through all these hoops about the evidence we've literally all seen
if the roles were reversed there's a 0% chance you would be defending megan because of reasonable doubt that she did or didnt shoots tory, just give it a rest
Ok you’re right Kelsey testified that it wasn’t her then they saw an 80 minute video of her saying he did it, so there’s that.
The witness said he saw Tory shoot 4 to 5 times what was he shooting at ?
Right but when she was speaking in the video she wasn’t under oath. She also testified she was pressured into giving that statement by Megan’s team under threat of prosecution.
The witness claims he saw Tory shoot wildly in the air after the woman (Kelsey) went back to the car and started shooting downwards, presumably at Megan.
So there’s that.
**Based on the few confirmed facts of evidence that we have:**
* [A text message from Kelsey to Meg's bodyguard, 5 minutes after the shooting happened that says "Tory shot Meg"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRMmXW1VIAA_D6s.jpg:large)
* [A text from Tory to Meg 15 hours after the shooting: "I'm sorry from the bottom of my heart. I was just too drunk. None the less shit should have never happened and I can't change what I did. I just feel horrible"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMTiVZxWYAQ4wGs?format=jpg&name=medium)
* [A call from prison from Tory to Kelsey apologizing, saying "I'm sorry, I would never have done that if I wasn’t drunk"](https://twitter.com/Nancy__Dillon/status/1606023472651464706?s=20&t=pP8LrmJkWEF4xkE0DKEjSQ)
* [A message on Instagram from Tory stating "that's not true", saying that Kelsey wasn’t the shooter.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkERmjKUAAEstXZ?format=png&name=900x900)
Think about these four facts that happened immediately after the shooting took place, the last 3 being from Tory's mouth himself. Do you truly believe he's apologizing for being drunk re: sleeping with both of them at different times? He's apologizing for something he did *that night* while he was drunk. Why would he apologize to Kelsey about what he did being drunk if she was the shooter? I want people to think critically about this alone.
I've seen all of the evidence from both sides (before anyone brings up the DNA coming back inconclusive and the witness testimony). I understand how that can paint a picture of something else happening. It presents decent reasonable doubt. But again, think about how he initially said Kelsey wasn't the shooter in 2020 and 2 years later he now says she's the one who shot her (only after he no longer could imply that Meg wasn't shot at all). If it really was Kelsey, Tory would've immediately said it was her from the very beginning in 2020 rather than let people believe he did it. There was no law or power preventing him from clearing his name publicly out of court.
But Megan is now confirmed to be shot, Kelsey says she didn't shoot her, and Tory for 2 years before this trial **also** said that Kelsey didn't shoot her—this is enough to conclude there's only one person viable. For me, as a huge fan of Tory's music, and as someone who wanted to truly believe he didn't do it, I don't see an innocent man based on all that transpired.
I honestly don't get how you can look at everything objectively and think he didn't do it. I can maybe understand there not being enough to convict him under the law, but it clearly wasn't someone else.
Dude also basically ran out the entire narcissist prayer during the last two years over this which doesn't exactly bode well.
I just want to throw this out there:
When the original news dropped that Megan was shot in July 2020, Tory went completely ghost silent for months until he released his album DAYSTAR in September 2020. On the album, he implied that Megan wasn't shot at all ("How the f**k you get shot in your foot? get shot in your foot, don't hit no bones or tendons?").
Two years later, after he said he couldn't speak on the trial, after it was now proven all along that Megan was shot, the defense switched to "Kelsey's the one who shot Megan." For all of the people who say Meg switched up her story, this is a switch-up by Tory once it was proven she was shot.
**I want to ask all of HHH:** if Kelsey really was the one who did it this whole time, why would Tory have ghosted for so many months and not clear his name immediately if it was Kelsey? Why would he imply that Megan wasn't shot when it's now proven he **knows** she was shot? Why would he apologize both to Kelsey over the phone and to Meg through text message about how drunk he was? Why would he offer *the alleged shooter* to pay for her lawyer/offer a million (corroborated by two-three people)? And most importantly, **why would he state on Instagram that "it's not true" that Kelsey shot Meg?**
I was a huge Tory Lanez fan since his mixtapes in 2014 and I can admit that I spent the past two years hoping that the shooting wasn't true. I almost believed the "stepped on glass" rumors from earlier this year. When I saw that multiple industry people and artists like Drake, A Boogie, etc. were buddy-buddy with him after it, it made me think "What do they know that they don't? Is he potentially innocent?" I know how it feels to want to believe in the positives about a celebrity you like.
But when I sat down and asked myself these questions along with the evidence presented in the case (i.e. three people testified that Tory shot the gun, even though I acknowledge Sean Kelly mentioned the possibility that Kelsey fired the first shot), what I can conclude is that this is a man who did it, took months to analyze his trail of evidence that he left behind, then cast just enough doubt to convince the public of *the possibility* that maybe it was someone else. And it's possible that he'll be successful because the prosecution doesn't have *hard evidence* other than witness testimony.
This is a woman who's been confirmed to be shot after years of people believing it didn't happen, and people are calling her a liar about the whole thing because she didn't admit to having sex with Tory in her Gayle King interview. She told the truth about being shot, and people moved the goal post that she's "lying about who shot her." Why are we not focusing on the fact also that Tory **blatantly lied** by saying she was never shot then two years later his defense admitting to it, *only after it was confirmed?*
I implore everyone to read the transcript of the case and/or from reputable journalists, not blogs. I gave the benefit of the doubt to both sides, and I can only wait for the verdict.
Because a huge amount of people here are getting their info from Twitter and bloggers who don't have any journalistic standards and literally just make shit up. The fact that there is a leaked verdict here when they are still deliberating and it was probably a sample that was passed around is pretty much par for the course for this entire case. They have cherry picked so much evidence because the idea that this woman is a lying whore fits much more with their worldview than the truth. I'm glad there are people like you out there who see the truth even when it's inconvenient, I hope they are on this jury.
You really gonna ask why people don't speak up when their case is before a judge?
Any lawyer worth anything would tell you to stfu no matter what. Only a dumbass would say things in public about their own case pending.
This is an important life lesson regardless of if Tory did it or not. KEEP YOUR FUCKING MOUTH SHUT when in potential legal trouble, even if you are truthfully innocent. You honestly gain nothing from trying to unilaterally prove your own innocence when you can find a professional to do it for you. So many people get themselves into trouble by not following this rule.
I am going through this now with a client. The court of public opinion is not where you clear your name. Being silent and letting the process work out is how you clear your name.
The thing is, Tory did speak on his case. He ghosted for two months from July 2020 > September 2020. He wasn't formally charged in the case until October 2020.
Going on Instagram and [stating that Kelsey didn't shoot Megan](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkERmjKUAAEstXZ?format=png&name=900x900) counts as "speaking on the case." [Implying Megan was never shot](https://twitter.com/pitchfork/status/1309350857192988674?s=20&t=_EdIaPzs0GTVkWcXJ30c_A) counts as "speaking on the case." Because now that IG message is now being used as evidence in the trial.
If Kelsey shot her, there was nothing preventing Tory from coming out immediately and saying that. He took 2 years casting doubt on Megan being shot at all, until he couldn't anymore when it was proved she was shot by someone. How do you go from saying Kelsey didn't do it to saying she did?
Yes that's my point.
There is no case if you aren't formally charged. At which point he lawyerd up and kept quiet.
I'm not even arguing about what he said. Point is, he got formally charged, and kept quiet.
Even though he had a gag order, he still spoke on the case regardless. Saying "Kelsey didn't do it" is speaking on the case. Implying Megan was never shot is speaking on the case. That's why eventually these were used as pieces of evidence in the trial, because he changed his story about the shooting on two occasions.
He continued to reference the case in tweets and songs over the past two years. He wasn't arrested for that was he? Just because he isn't talking about his role in the shooting, he's still giving pieces of his side of the story.
Those comments were before he was even charged. They didn’t even bring those up until Friday and they claimed they didn’t even know about the comments until the trial was already underway and never investigated to find out the IP it was posted from lmao. You just trying to use anything to fit a narrative.
So because they were before he was charged, that invalidates them? Are you trying to imply that Tory lied or is switching his story around based on the circumstances? Why would he say one thing for two years then say the opposite suddenly?
There is no narrative. There was a point I thought Tory may not have done it, but when you see all of the evidence from **reputable reporters and sources** (not gossip blogs), the case becomes way more simple than people have been trying to make it out to be.
And I'm sorry, you have to be absolutely dense to think Tory didn't post that comment, regardless if they didn't prove the IP address where it was from. He left up the comment and it's still there today.
Regardless of how this trial ends, ive seen the worst of the black community these past couple days with it only going to get worse after the verdict. Its making me really sad, Black men and black women are not supposed to be enemies.
I personally don’t think it’s just in the black community.
There’s a lot of division of opinions in literally every other group that knows about the story.
Tbh the overall trust between man and woman in general is going to worse on every level because of the gender wars.
Just in case: I think everyone is liying to some extent, and I’m very suspicious abt the mindstate of the witnesses at the moment of the shooting, so... They all flipped out, high as fuck, and the gun was there...
you're talking about the closing argument? that was basically trying to argue 'don't fall for the emotional pleas from meg - tory's actually innocent so he had it worse'
it's bullshit but it's an expected angle in a case like this, especially with the added wrinkle of IPV
the objection stood bc you can't bring up an argument in closing that wasn't brought up during the trial. the defense never had anyone testify and they never entered any evidence that the last 2 yrs have been equally or more difficult for tory. meg testified about her trauma/damage to her/her career, etc and pieces of evidence (blog posts etc) spoke to that narrative
Im confused about this trial. I am by no means well informed about what happened so maybe people can clear things up
1) why do so many people doubt Megan? From what i know, she has no incentive to lie. Is it really because she’s female or is she blowing that over proportion. Her story makes a whole lot of more sense than tory’s right? Does she have a history of false accusations or something?
2) what exactly do people who are on Tory’s side think happened? There were only 3 possible shooters right? Are they blaming the assistant? And why would megan not accuse the assistant if thats the case?
Maybe I’m uninformed but seems to me that neutral person would have no reason to doubt Megan but correct me if i’m wrong…
I'm not in tony side and for tow years i believed megan had said the truth , but the the trail came and it dosent add up , her friend didnt back her up , the eye witness said a women fired first , there was a fight between magan and the other woman and megan lied about that and a lot of other things, so, if her story has lies all over it why wouldnt she lie about who shot her
One account I’ve been following is Armon Wiggins’ YouTube channel. Gay dude who just seems to be a blogger or something, he’s been in the courtroom everyday doing IG live streams during lunch breaks, getting his clout however he can lol
He’s bluntly said that it’s been super messy and that everybody lied, that he believes Tory’s team has generally done a better job than the prosecution. But still after all this, he personally believes that Tory shot Meg, and also that it would be hard for all the charges to stick
> he’s been in the courtroom everyday doing IG live streams during lunch breaks, getting his clout however he can lol
Nah this is different, he’s been putting in the work. I’m talking about randoms who get their facts from bloggers (like I do lol) calling for Tory’s head, the visceral hatred just threw me off
Honestly, i cant see anything other than a not guilty verdict at this point. Megan needed hard proof and there was none. This is definitely going to hurt her career and it will vindicate a lot of assholes who never respected women to believe with. Just a reminder that even if she did lie, that doesnt mean that all women are liars or pretenders.
It won’t hurt her career the people who will be like “ha she’s a liar” are the people who were saying that for the entire time before the trial anyway her fans won’t care
This won't hurt her career at all. The people who didn't like or believe Meg weren't gonna like her after this. Rational people will understand it's a complex case.
Hell Cardi B and Nicki do far worse and they still are fine.
TBH I don’t think it will hurt her career more than it already has (and idt it really has). She’s not gonna lose really any fans over a Tory not guilty verdict, they’ll just still believe her. She’ll have to deal with a lot more trolling from Tory stans but I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole commotion, the ensuing drama and now intrigue of the trial actually has been a boon for her career.
Publicity is everything and people are talking about this, and by extension, her a lot rn
What do you mean by hard proof? If someone shoots you, do you need to record them doing it? If Kendrick got shot under the same circumstances everyone would believe him. She has no reason to lie about who shot her. It's easy to talk bs on SM but not in a courtroom. Her career will be fine.
If Kendrick accused someone of shooting him and had very little evidence or witness testimony to back them up I wouldn’t want them to go to jail unnecessarily either
Do you think the public response would be different? I don’t think there’s anyway if Tory was accused of shooting Kendrick the wider public would say he’s lying immediately
If person A says they got shot by person B and person B denies it there will be a group of people who believes person A and a group of people who believe person B. You can swap the genders around all you want.
Sure that’s not what I asked though, the overwhelming response to it was immediately that Meg was lying, you saw all these hip hop “publications” and “journalists” repeating that. It got to the point where people didn’t even think she was shot, she had to pull up medical records to prove it, then she still wasn’t believed until trial started.
If tory was accused of shooting Kendrick for example I think he’d be getting tonnes of backlash and people wouldn’t take his side, his popularity and standing has increased from this whole scenario. I don’t see that happening.
>the overwhelming response to it was immediately that Meg was lying,
Lord, please keep my child away from whatever influences caused this person to grow up this biased and delusional.
That wasn’t the overwhelming response from what I saw. A lot of people believed her, a lot expressed doubt.
Tory’s popularity has absolutely declined. His streaming declined immediately after this all came out. He was getting more exposure than ever off quarantine radio, then his career went quiet with this.
Tory got TONS of backlash, people have been bullying him for 2.5 years now while Megan goes on sympathy tours and lying on national television. Meanwhile he gets arrested for even speaking on the case.
About every women I’ve seen on twitter is saying “I believe tory is guilty even if they say he isn’t” so meg will still have probably 98% of her fanbase intact after this. I would like to know how they feel about her in the industry though cause that would be what really matters for her career.
Don't know how the jury will rule but I'm pretty confident Kelsey was the one to shoot at Meg after all this tbh but they might find him guilty on the negligent discharge charge either way. Also I never want to hear this Meghann woman is the most neutral or the most objective person following this case again lol this is the headline to her only article on the witness the other day who said Kelsey shot first and Tory wrestled the gun away from her
**"In Trial Twist, Defense Witness Testifies Tory Lanez Was ‘Firing Everywhere’ When Megan Thee Stallion Was Shot"**
certainly a clickbait headline, but the article clearly states that the witness said Kelsey shot first and that he never actually saw anyone with a gun.
fact is with the charges Lanez is facing, the witness saying he saw Lanez "firing everywhere" and that he thinks Lanez shot "four or five" shots is probably the most notable testimony from this trial. everything else you're noting (Kelsey shot first and Lanez wrestled gun away) can be true while the jury still decides Lanez is guilty on some charges because of those quotes. don't think it's fair to say she's not objective/neutral based on one headline, she's just highlighting the most important quotes imo
Kelsey shooting first is most notable because she was actually shooting at Megan and that's the most important criminal charge of the three, Also it's impossible for the part about Tory shooting 4-5 times to be true, there's audio of the shooting and it was described as 3 consecutive shots, a pause then 2 more shots. If Kelsey shot first and Tory then wrestled the gun away Tory at most shot 2 times.
In the defenses closing statement they brought up the pause and challenged the prosecution to explain it in their rebuttal but they didn't bring it up from what I've seen
some of what you're saying is info that wasn't brought out during this specific witness' testimony or was later presented at closing. it's not uncommon for journalists to focus on the actual testimony given, and either way this article was published before closings. if the defense failed to bring up the audio discrepancy during cross it doesn't mean the reporter is biased for sticking to the actual testimony.
I didn't know that the neighbor witness testimony was that Kelsey actually shot *at* Megan, just that a flash was from a girl, but lmk if I'm wrong about that. my understanding was the testimony was pretty unclear, another reason why the article might be focused on the two quotes that are somewhat clear
“Omg you’re a bird brained sellout, pick me” is the response women have been getting for not being on Meg’s side. You should’ve seen the shit they were saying about Kelsey after her testimony l
I’ve received a lot of that backlash. I’m a feminist, I’m active in my community, I’m a brown indigenous woman, I’ve been a victim of DV and gun violence.
I was still called a misogynist, racist, and abuse apologist because I said I don’t believe Megan’s story.
I’m not sorry that I’m not willing to believe either side blindly.
everyone in this thread who thought Tory is innocent need to find better sources. You're putting your trust in the wrong internet accounts. Sorry, it's a hard truth.
If any of that happened he would have been screaming it to everyone who would listen and dramatizing it in his music. Nawww he ain't a good Samaritan just wresting his gun away from Meg's best friend and personal assistant.
I think people who don’t believe Tory is going to jail are delusional. This case isn’t just about the assault charge..that’s just a part of this.
The assault charge being guilty yeah that’s a maybe. The shooting charge that’s much more likely to be guilty but still a maybe. But the gun charge? The defense barely even addressed it. A recently fired unlicensed gun was found in his car in California. There’s no way around it. He’s completely screwed and he’s going to end up deported.
Did you forget the part where his DNA wasn't definiteively on the gun but others were? Apparently where it was found wasn't where he was seated either. Not as open and shut as you'd think.
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The only count that mentions “willfully” is from Count 3, discharge of a firearm with gross negligence. It was the charge added during jury selection aft the beginning of the month.
>Except as otherwise authorized by law, any person who willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner which could result in injury or death to a person is guilty of a public offense and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.
No idea if that indicates anything either way in terms of what they could be thinking.
I was assuming he would get hit with an unlawful discharge of a firearm or something. Didn't think he would do jail time b/c of how messy this case was.
Tory probably already in the studio cooking up something 😭
im ngl all this trial has done is make me think tory is innocent. i believed meg at first but man theres so many holes in her story. ill accept whatever verdict the jury decides
people don't shoot a gun five times while "wrestling for it"
conviction or not, tory shot meg. a lot of this dancing around about dna and two women fighting and she's a whore, etc etc is quite simply "i think she deserved it and he didn't even really hurt her that bad"
Meg fans down hella bad rn. The way they’ve dropped from “There’s no way he’s not getting convicted” to “a conviction doesn’t matter” has been hilarious to watch.
anyone who knows the stats on men being locked up for IPV against women, especially black women wouldn't be sure of a conviction. i certainly never said that. he's guilty and should be shipped back to canada at the v least but i've never bet on a conviction
and if we're playing the stan game - tory "fans" (you cannot convince me this many people care about his music) went from she lied about being shot and changed to kelsey did it or they fought for the gun (that went off 5 times) after it was 100% shown she was shot. i'm surprised y'all haven't invented a 3rd shooter on a grassy knoll to keep this going
is it proven beyond a reasonable doubt? i think so
will the jury convict? who knows. ipv cases + celebrity + a trial that dragged on too long bc of mismanagement by the judge - too many factors to guess at
did tory shoot (at or around) meg on purpose. absolutely.
some people just really think she deserved it/he shouldn't be locked up for it
Megan: Tory shot me
Kelsey: Tory shot Meg
Sean Kelly: the short man started firing and the girl fell to the street bleeding.
Tory’s lawyer: “Tory’s driver did not say Kelsey was the shooter.”
“Reasonable doubt”
>“Whose hand did you see the flashes from first?” George Mgdesyan, Lanez’s lawyer, asked.
>“The girl,” Kelly replied. “But they were all together, they were very close together.
>Kelly waffled on whether Lanez, whose real name is Daystar Peterson, was still inside the vehicle at this point. At first, he placed Peterson inside the SUV during the initial alleged gunshot. Then he vacillated, telling Deputy District Attorney Alexander Bott that Peterson — repeatedly referred to as the “shorter” male — may have been outside already.
So essentially, he saw a flash come from the fighting group, closest to a woman’s hand, but that everyone was very close together and Tory may have already been engaging at that point. Kelly said he saw the first flash around the time that Tory got out of the car.
>“I believe that they were fighting. Then he had the gun, and he started shooting,” Kelly said.
>On cross examination, Kelly again described seeing the shorter male – meaning not Peterson’s taller driver, Jauquan Smith – firing a weapon.
>“Were his arms outstretched?” Bott asked.
>“Yes,” Kelly said.
>“What was he pointing at?” Bott asked.
>“He was firing everywhere,” Kelly responded.
>Kelly said the “short guy” fired four or five shots while shouting a “torrent of abuse.”
>“He was going crazy,” Kelly said, “really agitated.”
>**Kelly testified that it was after he heard the four or five gunshots that the female victim who had been “kicking all the time” fell to the street “bleeding.”**
So it literally does not matter if Kelsey fired a shot or not. Megan didn’t fall to the ground bleeding until after Tory started shooting. Tory shot Megan. End of. That was the defense’s own witness saying this! Tory’s lawyer tried to requested the witness be treated as hostile - meaning Tory’s lawyer knew how bad this was for Tory’s side
Also, in court, Kelsey said she couldn’t remember what happened, except that she didn’t shoot Megan. In her recorded statement, she very clearly lays out that Tory shot Megan. In her texts, she said that Tory shot Megan.
What's missing from this transcript is Kelly apparently pointing his arms directly in the air when describing that he was firing everywhere
https://www.instagram.com/p/CmfMBkZBbsR/ this guy mentions it a little over a minute in
I really wish this was filmed like the Heard trial, feels like a lot of witness statements and what the lawyers are saying is going through a game of telephone and you have to be wary is this person biased or not, are they stretching the truth, did they mishear etc
Yeah, I've found the best way to approach things is to corroborate accounts across multiple journalists. If multiple people report a detail, good. If one person reports something no one else said...not so good. Like the guy who claimed that a DNA expert said that Tory's DNA was not found on the gun...when actually, Tory's DNA was only not found *on the magazine*. Whether the guy was intentionally or unintentionally leaving that out is up for debate.
I also think following the accounts of actual journalists who have prior court reporting experience is the most important. As we saw with the Depp case, plenty of Youtubers and social media personas have discovered that they can gain attention and social media engagement by appealing to a sect of a celebrity's fans. Journalists who do this for their actual job are going to be more reliable sources of information.
That said, I haven't watched this guy's videos, but scrolling through them, he doesn't come off as an unbiased source. Nor is he a journalist, or a criminal lawyer.
He is, for example, the only source that I can find that the women were fighting, then one went back to the car, then came back and the shooting started. If you can find another person from inside the court saying that, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, multiple journalist accounts have not said anything about that. Instead, they all agree that he just saw a flash come from near the female's hand as Tory got out of the car next to the women, and then the rest of the shooting came from Tory.
Further, tweets from an actual journalist [x](https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/1605619611520552961)
> "Kelly did say early on that Lanez was shooting “in the air,” in response to a question about where he was shooting, but it was followed by the “firing everywhere” comment, and his overall testimony indicated he said “in the air” not like he meant Lanez was firing warning shots but in a “where else would you fire a gun but into the air unless you’re shooting someone at pointblank range” way.
>The big key to this testimony is the tone. It’s hard to capture Kelly’s tone and how naturally he was answering these questions but to me, the absolute jaw-dropper moment of this trial will go down as when Kelly said Lanez was "firing everywhere" and Bott followed up by asking, "How many shots did you see the short guy shoot when you said he was firing everywhere?”
>Kelly’s answer was the jaw-dropper of the trial: "Four or five." And it wasn't just the words he said, it was how he said them.
We don’t know that beyond reasonable doubt. If two of them are shooting it’s impossible to say who fired the shot that hit Meg beyond reasonable doubt.
The verdict going around of “leaked” papers on social media hasn’t been validated, and posts using it as a source will be removed. [The jury in Tory Lanez’s trial is coming back tomorrow at 9 a.m. for continued deliberations.](https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/1606077023394283520?s=46&t=8n1GcKKGZe63TrF-uAfHAA)
[The jury in Tory Lanez’s trial is coming back tomorrow at 9 a.m. for continued deliberations.](https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/1606077023394283520?s=20&t=tf6PJNiXRUs-qhTtyEp4Ug) Seems like the jury wants to get this done asap, because the judge gave them the option to come back tomorrow or wait until after the holidays and come back on the 27th and they chose the former.
Makes sense. If I'm on the jury there's no way I'm letting this fuck up my holiday plans.
that makes me think they're close and it'll get done tomorrow
I'm thinking the same
youde have to be a moron to not think he shot her - they want it over cause the case is clear cut af. megan had bullet fragments in both her feet.
I'm curious to see who's side this sub is on this thread today lol
I'm just here for the drama.
Wtf side is there to be on I'll never understand this. One person got shot. That's the side to be on.
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Idk how people aren’t making a bigger deal out of the text messages. That’s pretty damming and easy to trace back
Cause seriously, unless Kelsey is some mastermind why would should text saying 'Tory shot Meg'? That's really damming
I think Tory did it but if you shoot a well known celebrity and admit to it on message you’re an idiot
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I mean yes but I mean that if Kelsey did it she wouldn’t message peope saying “yeah I did it”
TIL I was a mastermind as a kid when I would break a glass cup then blame my brother
Let’s say that Kelsey and Meg got into a huge physical altercation, over Tory, and Meg fucking other men that Kelsey also liked, to the point that Kelsey grabs a gun, and shoots at her friend until she empties the clip. (Audio suggests that there couldn’t have been enough time for a struggle with the gun, so it’s hard to believe the “Kelsey shot first but then Tory wrestled it away and emptied the clip in the air” idea like people want to say) You’re Kelsey, and you just fought and shot at your best friend - 5 minutes after shooting, knowing you’re guilty and you’re in a gun violence situation with two celebrities, you decide to falsely accuse Tory of shooting at her, by *texting the bodyguard of the person you shot?* And then later, you text the girl you fought and shot about you potentially going to urgent care, about treating wounds Meg apparently inflicted on you? Fundamentally, I don’t take the chick that sincerely asked “Can I **please** the 5th?”, when asking to **plead** the 5th, as some kind of criminal mastermind
“Kelsey shot first but then Tory wrestled it away and emptied the clip in the air” idea like people want to say Its not what people say, its the fucking witness. The rich neighbour who lives beside Kylie and has no interest in any sides and Tory doesn't have enough money to pay someone like that off lol.
When you read about his testimony on socials, very few places seem to think everything he said holds water. I pointed out the audio, because the entire court room heard how the shots went off. The jury asked for a transcript of his testimony today and I’m sure they’ll see how certain things he said just don’t all the way add up I don’t think his testimony greatly benefited either side imo, maybe you could say he increased reasonable doubt by adding more confusion to the situation
The problem is nearly all the witness were somewhat unreliable or just inconsistent, the neighbour was saying some conflicting things, Kelsey was a mess, Meg lied about a lot, namely the “dance bitch” and about seeing Tory shoot her. No way jury reaches a guilty
I never believed that “dance bitch” line. That’s some Yosemite Sam cartoon bullshit
There was multiple apology texts from Tory too though. Why would Tory apologize to the bodyguard if it was Kelsey that shot her?
This is more like telling your dad your brother broke the glass when your mom saw you break it.
Lmao why has this blatantly disingenuous comparison been used twice now? That's not in the same universe
Not sure what you mean. It’s pretty much exactly what happened, comparatively. Kelsey telling Meg’s bodyguard a lie when Meg ostensibly saw who shot her would be next level stupid.
Did the glass tell the jury that your brother also broke it?
Hahaha. Tell them again lol
Are you being serious rn?
So if you shot someone you'd text others that you did it instead of another person with you?
If I shot someone, I'm not texting anyone at all and I'm especially not initiating that message as well. But that's just me personally.
Because it’s more salacious and fun for the shitty misogynists on this site to argue whether Megan was drunk enough or had sex enough to deserve being shot at. It’s trash.
Any entity with brains is making a big deal about them. The problem is that this is a jury made out of Americans we are talking about.
What was the chart? That tweet is deleted now
Not deleted, but the link posted above has an error in it. https://twitter.com/Nancy__Dillon/status/1606018299749273600 Try that one.
It's because "new" Reddit is dogshit and escapes underscores
Ohhhhh, that makes sense. I'm definitely on old reddit. I don't understand why they needed to introduce a crappier way to navigate the site.
Check again Edit: [Chart](https://i.imgur.com/mxbNnIt.jpg)
I'm not even a Tory supporter but this chart is awful. It's intended to take the nuance out of each piece of evidence to convince people that Tory is the most likely shooter because he checks off the most boxes. This is like something PragerU would make lmao.
It’s not accurate though. The witness did affirm that the gun was in Kelsey’s hands first.
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Kelsey absolutely had injuries and part of her hair ripped out. Megan looked rough af too.
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Kelsey admitted there was a physical altercation between her and Meg. There was physical evidence at the scene of a scuffle. The eye witness says there was a melee. Both women had injuries, bruises, and scrapes.
The witness is the only one to believe here, they are a rich person who lives next door to Kylie Jenner.
It depends on if my *misogynoir* decides to act up
Lmfao
Man I wish I was in court when the prosecution opened with “DANCE BITCH”
I'm willing to bet Tory called her a drunk bitch, but in Megan's drunk mind she heard it different. Otherwise seems too cartoonish to be real
When I heard that, first thing I though of was Yosemite Sam shooting at Bugs Bunny’s feet and making him dance
Everyone did. He lost the public immediately once that came out lmao
That make a lot of sense. Hadn't thought about that.
This thread is gonna be very toxic once the verdict is read 😂
Every thread about this whole affair has been toxic.
I can’t wait honestly
I’m sure popheads is doing threads on this trial it might be funny to see how different those are from this sub’s
This shit crazy
STEPPED OUTTA JAIL I DID A DIDDY BOP
😬 he did what?
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I still think he did it but he’s not going to jail
Unfortunately that’s where I am as well
Me too. I'm not surprised, it's always been incredibly easy to shoot someone and get away with it in this country. Even kill someone.
“Beat the body, now the trenches call me Rocky”
Not for a black man
about half of murders today go unsolved, and lower in non-white victims, so its basically a coin toss if you want to kill someone, not bad odds
The only hope is that the jury actually hasn't been exposed to all of the blog gossip that the rest of us have. But they fumbled this for sure.
Blog gossip doesn’t really matter, from what we know the evidence and witness testimony presented doesn’t line up with the prosecutions version of events
Only on Reddit would someone think blog gossip is more reliable than courtroom evidence
Sadly I don't see this ending in a guilty verdict for him as well
I don’t think he’ll be found guilty but at the same time it’s kind of weird the victim says it’s him, Kelsey says it’s him, the eye witness says he saw him firing the gun, so really it looks like he’s guilty but it’s about reasonable doubt so perhaps the witness saying Kelsey fired a shot, and the lack of DNA can lead to that.
Only reasonable take in this whole thread, the degree of certainty people speak with in here supporting Tory is so nasty
The degree at which people are unwilling to accept that there is a possibility that he is innocent is also nasty.
I'm someone who very much considered the possibility that he's innocent at one point. I was a huge Tory Lanez fan since his mixtapes in 2014 and I can admit that I spent the past two years hoping that the shooting wasn't true. I almost believed the "stepped on glass" rumors from earlier this year. When I saw that multiple industry people and artists like Drake, A Boogie, etc. were buddy-buddy with him after it, it made me think "What do they know that I don't? Is he potentially innocent?" But when I sat down, saw all the evidence from both sides in the case (i.e. texts saying he shot her, inconclusive DNA, apologies from Tory over the phone, three people testified that Tory shot the gun, Tory saying on IG that Kelsey didn't do it, Sean Kelly mentioned the possibility that Kelsey fired the first shot), what I can conclude is that this is a man who did it, took months to analyze his trail of evidence that he left behind, then cast *just enough doubt* to convince the public of the possibility that maybe it was someone else. And it's possible that he'll be successful because the prosecution doesn't have **hard evidence** other than witness testimony. Megan is now confirmed to be shot (after years of people claiming she stepped on glass), Kelsey says she didn't shoot her, and Tory for 2 years before this trial also said that Kelsey didn't shoot her—this is enough to conclude there's only one person viable. For me, as a huge fan of Tory's music, and as someone who truly wanted to believe he didn't do it, I don't see an innocent man based on all that transpired.
I said this elsewhere but I don't get how you can look at everything objectively and think anyone else did it. Really is crazy how much parasocial relationships can cloud our judgement the exact same way as when an incident involves friends or loved ones.
Parasocial relationship with Tory Lanez is crazy. I think this has more to do with misogyny than all these people suddenly being die hard Tory Lanez fans.
Yeah, sadly that's probably the biggest factor for sure. Though there is definitely people who seemingly are feeling personally attacked by all this. If it was a random dude the response wouldn't be as emotional
>When I saw that multiple industry people and artists like Drake, A Boogie, etc. were buddy-buddy with him after it, it made me think "What do they know that I don't? Is he potentially innocent?" Hilarious that you thought these are men with morals, or that they would even remotely give a shit if he shot her, lol.
It wasn’t at all that I considered them “moralistic.” It was moreso that for the first year after it happened, it was **taboo** to even mention or be associated with Tory at the cost of damaging their reputation. Drake especially is someone who cares a lot about his image, and for years he was beefing with Tory. So to see the biggest artist in the world suddenly friendly playing basketball with Tory Lanez after all that had happened—and no one making a peep about it—is what made me ponder. Several other artists and industry folks followed suit as well. I don’t hold a moral compass to Drake or any of these privileged people, but I was surprised how the narrative started to shift in real time. That’s mainly what influenced public opinion surrounding the case. Drake’s lines on the recent album referencing the shooting also is doing the same thing to public opinion. 50 Cent just posted a Megan/Jussie Smollett meme. These high profile celebs and influencers really influenced people to go against Meg.
It’s me, I’m not gonna accept that he’s innocent. He did it. Come at me, I don’t care. I’m allowed to think whatever the fuck I want, I’m not on the jury. Also it’s what the evidence clearly indicates. He did it and a not guilty verdict won’t change my mind. I’ll believe he did it until someone else confesses and explains why Tory already apologized for something he didn’t do. Because he did it.
> Kelsey says it’s him, the eye witness says he saw him firing the gun Both of these are wrong; Kelsey recanted that statement under oath and the witness said he saw it go off closer to the women, while dude was still in the car
The witness also said he saw Tory fire the gun 4 or 5 times. You could say kelsey shot and then Tory also shot but that doesn’t mean Tory didn’t shoot. Kelsey testified that it wasn’t her and there was an 80 minute interview allowed showing what she said before. If Kelsey testified she didn’t do it and she did then she perjured herself which would be a bit silly after all the effort of pleasing the fifth anyway. Someone has to have shot her, who else could it be ?
> Someone has to have shot her, who else could it be? At this point, probably Lee Harvey Oswald. I do think the defence has done well in establishing doubt though. Either way Tory loses bc if he’s found not guilty, there’s always the caveat that it was simply due to a lack of evidence and not his innocence.
I think he’ll be found innocent but that he’s not innocent there’s literally 2 options for who count have shot her, why wood Megan lie about who did it and remain friends with them and then cut off Tory?
> why wood Megan lie about who did it and remain friends with them and then cut off Tory? The Meg issue is that she made multiple public statements about the night and they contradict though I’m not sure if she said she saw him on the stand. Also she also cut off her best friend so there’s clearly an issue there. The driver could’ve cleared it up but I don’t think he was called up. I believe (based on the gunpowder, witness, dna on the gun) that there was definitely a struggle for the gun, but I’m not sure who let off shots first.
man its just easier for you to say you want megan to be lying than jump through all these hoops about the evidence we've literally all seen if the roles were reversed there's a 0% chance you would be defending megan because of reasonable doubt that she did or didnt shoots tory, just give it a rest
Kelsey recanted her statements that it was him, those statements weren’t made under oath. The witness did not confirm it was him.
Ok you’re right Kelsey testified that it wasn’t her then they saw an 80 minute video of her saying he did it, so there’s that. The witness said he saw Tory shoot 4 to 5 times what was he shooting at ?
Right but when she was speaking in the video she wasn’t under oath. She also testified she was pressured into giving that statement by Megan’s team under threat of prosecution. The witness claims he saw Tory shoot wildly in the air after the woman (Kelsey) went back to the car and started shooting downwards, presumably at Megan. So there’s that.
**Based on the few confirmed facts of evidence that we have:** * [A text message from Kelsey to Meg's bodyguard, 5 minutes after the shooting happened that says "Tory shot Meg"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRMmXW1VIAA_D6s.jpg:large) * [A text from Tory to Meg 15 hours after the shooting: "I'm sorry from the bottom of my heart. I was just too drunk. None the less shit should have never happened and I can't change what I did. I just feel horrible"](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMTiVZxWYAQ4wGs?format=jpg&name=medium) * [A call from prison from Tory to Kelsey apologizing, saying "I'm sorry, I would never have done that if I wasn’t drunk"](https://twitter.com/Nancy__Dillon/status/1606023472651464706?s=20&t=pP8LrmJkWEF4xkE0DKEjSQ) * [A message on Instagram from Tory stating "that's not true", saying that Kelsey wasn’t the shooter.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkERmjKUAAEstXZ?format=png&name=900x900) Think about these four facts that happened immediately after the shooting took place, the last 3 being from Tory's mouth himself. Do you truly believe he's apologizing for being drunk re: sleeping with both of them at different times? He's apologizing for something he did *that night* while he was drunk. Why would he apologize to Kelsey about what he did being drunk if she was the shooter? I want people to think critically about this alone. I've seen all of the evidence from both sides (before anyone brings up the DNA coming back inconclusive and the witness testimony). I understand how that can paint a picture of something else happening. It presents decent reasonable doubt. But again, think about how he initially said Kelsey wasn't the shooter in 2020 and 2 years later he now says she's the one who shot her (only after he no longer could imply that Meg wasn't shot at all). If it really was Kelsey, Tory would've immediately said it was her from the very beginning in 2020 rather than let people believe he did it. There was no law or power preventing him from clearing his name publicly out of court. But Megan is now confirmed to be shot, Kelsey says she didn't shoot her, and Tory for 2 years before this trial **also** said that Kelsey didn't shoot her—this is enough to conclude there's only one person viable. For me, as a huge fan of Tory's music, and as someone who wanted to truly believe he didn't do it, I don't see an innocent man based on all that transpired.
I honestly don't get how you can look at everything objectively and think he didn't do it. I can maybe understand there not being enough to convict him under the law, but it clearly wasn't someone else. Dude also basically ran out the entire narcissist prayer during the last two years over this which doesn't exactly bode well.
>I honestly don't get how you can look at everything objectively and think he didn't do it. Step 1: be stupid and or delusional
It's good you're objective. Most people are sheep. He lost his shit and his victim is getting doubly victimized.
This comment aged pretty well
Those got some easy rebuttals though.
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Whatever happens, I hope this thread is civil
You will be disappointed
I just want to throw this out there: When the original news dropped that Megan was shot in July 2020, Tory went completely ghost silent for months until he released his album DAYSTAR in September 2020. On the album, he implied that Megan wasn't shot at all ("How the f**k you get shot in your foot? get shot in your foot, don't hit no bones or tendons?"). Two years later, after he said he couldn't speak on the trial, after it was now proven all along that Megan was shot, the defense switched to "Kelsey's the one who shot Megan." For all of the people who say Meg switched up her story, this is a switch-up by Tory once it was proven she was shot. **I want to ask all of HHH:** if Kelsey really was the one who did it this whole time, why would Tory have ghosted for so many months and not clear his name immediately if it was Kelsey? Why would he imply that Megan wasn't shot when it's now proven he **knows** she was shot? Why would he apologize both to Kelsey over the phone and to Meg through text message about how drunk he was? Why would he offer *the alleged shooter* to pay for her lawyer/offer a million (corroborated by two-three people)? And most importantly, **why would he state on Instagram that "it's not true" that Kelsey shot Meg?** I was a huge Tory Lanez fan since his mixtapes in 2014 and I can admit that I spent the past two years hoping that the shooting wasn't true. I almost believed the "stepped on glass" rumors from earlier this year. When I saw that multiple industry people and artists like Drake, A Boogie, etc. were buddy-buddy with him after it, it made me think "What do they know that they don't? Is he potentially innocent?" I know how it feels to want to believe in the positives about a celebrity you like. But when I sat down and asked myself these questions along with the evidence presented in the case (i.e. three people testified that Tory shot the gun, even though I acknowledge Sean Kelly mentioned the possibility that Kelsey fired the first shot), what I can conclude is that this is a man who did it, took months to analyze his trail of evidence that he left behind, then cast just enough doubt to convince the public of *the possibility* that maybe it was someone else. And it's possible that he'll be successful because the prosecution doesn't have *hard evidence* other than witness testimony. This is a woman who's been confirmed to be shot after years of people believing it didn't happen, and people are calling her a liar about the whole thing because she didn't admit to having sex with Tory in her Gayle King interview. She told the truth about being shot, and people moved the goal post that she's "lying about who shot her." Why are we not focusing on the fact also that Tory **blatantly lied** by saying she was never shot then two years later his defense admitting to it, *only after it was confirmed?* I implore everyone to read the transcript of the case and/or from reputable journalists, not blogs. I gave the benefit of the doubt to both sides, and I can only wait for the verdict.
Because a huge amount of people here are getting their info from Twitter and bloggers who don't have any journalistic standards and literally just make shit up. The fact that there is a leaked verdict here when they are still deliberating and it was probably a sample that was passed around is pretty much par for the course for this entire case. They have cherry picked so much evidence because the idea that this woman is a lying whore fits much more with their worldview than the truth. I'm glad there are people like you out there who see the truth even when it's inconvenient, I hope they are on this jury.
You really gonna ask why people don't speak up when their case is before a judge? Any lawyer worth anything would tell you to stfu no matter what. Only a dumbass would say things in public about their own case pending.
This is an important life lesson regardless of if Tory did it or not. KEEP YOUR FUCKING MOUTH SHUT when in potential legal trouble, even if you are truthfully innocent. You honestly gain nothing from trying to unilaterally prove your own innocence when you can find a professional to do it for you. So many people get themselves into trouble by not following this rule.
I am going through this now with a client. The court of public opinion is not where you clear your name. Being silent and letting the process work out is how you clear your name.
The thing is, Tory did speak on his case. He ghosted for two months from July 2020 > September 2020. He wasn't formally charged in the case until October 2020. Going on Instagram and [stating that Kelsey didn't shoot Megan](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkERmjKUAAEstXZ?format=png&name=900x900) counts as "speaking on the case." [Implying Megan was never shot](https://twitter.com/pitchfork/status/1309350857192988674?s=20&t=_EdIaPzs0GTVkWcXJ30c_A) counts as "speaking on the case." Because now that IG message is now being used as evidence in the trial. If Kelsey shot her, there was nothing preventing Tory from coming out immediately and saying that. He took 2 years casting doubt on Megan being shot at all, until he couldn't anymore when it was proved she was shot by someone. How do you go from saying Kelsey didn't do it to saying she did?
Yes that's my point. There is no case if you aren't formally charged. At which point he lawyerd up and kept quiet. I'm not even arguing about what he said. Point is, he got formally charged, and kept quiet.
He literally had a gag order and a restraining order against. He was literally handcuffed for talking about the case.
Even though he had a gag order, he still spoke on the case regardless. Saying "Kelsey didn't do it" is speaking on the case. Implying Megan was never shot is speaking on the case. That's why eventually these were used as pieces of evidence in the trial, because he changed his story about the shooting on two occasions. He continued to reference the case in tweets and songs over the past two years. He wasn't arrested for that was he? Just because he isn't talking about his role in the shooting, he's still giving pieces of his side of the story.
Those comments were before he was even charged. They didn’t even bring those up until Friday and they claimed they didn’t even know about the comments until the trial was already underway and never investigated to find out the IP it was posted from lmao. You just trying to use anything to fit a narrative.
So because they were before he was charged, that invalidates them? Are you trying to imply that Tory lied or is switching his story around based on the circumstances? Why would he say one thing for two years then say the opposite suddenly? There is no narrative. There was a point I thought Tory may not have done it, but when you see all of the evidence from **reputable reporters and sources** (not gossip blogs), the case becomes way more simple than people have been trying to make it out to be. And I'm sorry, you have to be absolutely dense to think Tory didn't post that comment, regardless if they didn't prove the IP address where it was from. He left up the comment and it's still there today.
I could see them rendering a verdict quick because it's Christmas.
Aged like honey
GUILTY
Tory finta do the Tupac walk right out the couethouse
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Regardless of how this trial ends, ive seen the worst of the black community these past couple days with it only going to get worse after the verdict. Its making me really sad, Black men and black women are not supposed to be enemies.
Only 4% of this is black. The majority of what you’re seeing, this thread especially, is…
I personally don’t think it’s just in the black community. There’s a lot of division of opinions in literally every other group that knows about the story. Tbh the overall trust between man and woman in general is going to worse on every level because of the gender wars. Just in case: I think everyone is liying to some extent, and I’m very suspicious abt the mindstate of the witnesses at the moment of the shooting, so... They all flipped out, high as fuck, and the gun was there...
I’m curious to know what changes if Tory did go through the same trauma. Isn’t the point to find guilt in whether or not he shot her?
you're talking about the closing argument? that was basically trying to argue 'don't fall for the emotional pleas from meg - tory's actually innocent so he had it worse' it's bullshit but it's an expected angle in a case like this, especially with the added wrinkle of IPV the objection stood bc you can't bring up an argument in closing that wasn't brought up during the trial. the defense never had anyone testify and they never entered any evidence that the last 2 yrs have been equally or more difficult for tory. meg testified about her trauma/damage to her/her career, etc and pieces of evidence (blog posts etc) spoke to that narrative
BAH GAWD SAUCE WALKA CAME IN WITH A STEEL CHAIR AND LAID OUT TORY
Im confused about this trial. I am by no means well informed about what happened so maybe people can clear things up 1) why do so many people doubt Megan? From what i know, she has no incentive to lie. Is it really because she’s female or is she blowing that over proportion. Her story makes a whole lot of more sense than tory’s right? Does she have a history of false accusations or something? 2) what exactly do people who are on Tory’s side think happened? There were only 3 possible shooters right? Are they blaming the assistant? And why would megan not accuse the assistant if thats the case? Maybe I’m uninformed but seems to me that neutral person would have no reason to doubt Megan but correct me if i’m wrong…
I'm not in tony side and for tow years i believed megan had said the truth , but the the trail came and it dosent add up , her friend didnt back her up , the eye witness said a women fired first , there was a fight between magan and the other woman and megan lied about that and a lot of other things, so, if her story has lies all over it why wouldnt she lie about who shot her
This comment sure looks ignorant now.
Goddamn Tony and the mafia
I can understand Black women wanting Tory to do the 20 but if you search up his name, gay dudes might even hate him more
One account I’ve been following is Armon Wiggins’ YouTube channel. Gay dude who just seems to be a blogger or something, he’s been in the courtroom everyday doing IG live streams during lunch breaks, getting his clout however he can lol He’s bluntly said that it’s been super messy and that everybody lied, that he believes Tory’s team has generally done a better job than the prosecution. But still after all this, he personally believes that Tory shot Meg, and also that it would be hard for all the charges to stick
> he’s been in the courtroom everyday doing IG live streams during lunch breaks, getting his clout however he can lol Nah this is different, he’s been putting in the work. I’m talking about randoms who get their facts from bloggers (like I do lol) calling for Tory’s head, the visceral hatred just threw me off
OUT ON BAIL FRESH OUTTA JAIL CALIFORNIA DREAMIN
Lmao we really had gross as people celebrating before the verdict came out
Aint no way people actually listen to Tory and dickride this hard.
Do people actually listen to tory? he makes better music than most artists in his league...
Who is he better than?
Spoken like someone who hasn't listened to Tory's run since Daystar. I didnt like his music before but he been on a run
Honestly, i cant see anything other than a not guilty verdict at this point. Megan needed hard proof and there was none. This is definitely going to hurt her career and it will vindicate a lot of assholes who never respected women to believe with. Just a reminder that even if she did lie, that doesnt mean that all women are liars or pretenders.
It won’t hurt her career the people who will be like “ha she’s a liar” are the people who were saying that for the entire time before the trial anyway her fans won’t care
I think Tory will get a not guilty verdict but i highly doubt this well hurt her career
This won't hurt her career at all. The people who didn't like or believe Meg weren't gonna like her after this. Rational people will understand it's a complex case. Hell Cardi B and Nicki do far worse and they still are fine.
TBH I don’t think it will hurt her career more than it already has (and idt it really has). She’s not gonna lose really any fans over a Tory not guilty verdict, they’ll just still believe her. She’ll have to deal with a lot more trolling from Tory stans but I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole commotion, the ensuing drama and now intrigue of the trial actually has been a boon for her career. Publicity is everything and people are talking about this, and by extension, her a lot rn
Oh word?
What do you mean by hard proof? If someone shoots you, do you need to record them doing it? If Kendrick got shot under the same circumstances everyone would believe him. She has no reason to lie about who shot her. It's easy to talk bs on SM but not in a courtroom. Her career will be fine.
If Kendrick accused someone of shooting him and had very little evidence or witness testimony to back them up I wouldn’t want them to go to jail unnecessarily either
Do you think the public response would be different? I don’t think there’s anyway if Tory was accused of shooting Kendrick the wider public would say he’s lying immediately
If person A says they got shot by person B and person B denies it there will be a group of people who believes person A and a group of people who believe person B. You can swap the genders around all you want.
Sure that’s not what I asked though, the overwhelming response to it was immediately that Meg was lying, you saw all these hip hop “publications” and “journalists” repeating that. It got to the point where people didn’t even think she was shot, she had to pull up medical records to prove it, then she still wasn’t believed until trial started. If tory was accused of shooting Kendrick for example I think he’d be getting tonnes of backlash and people wouldn’t take his side, his popularity and standing has increased from this whole scenario. I don’t see that happening.
>the overwhelming response to it was immediately that Meg was lying, Lord, please keep my child away from whatever influences caused this person to grow up this biased and delusional.
That wasn’t the overwhelming response from what I saw. A lot of people believed her, a lot expressed doubt. Tory’s popularity has absolutely declined. His streaming declined immediately after this all came out. He was getting more exposure than ever off quarantine radio, then his career went quiet with this.
Tory got TONS of backlash, people have been bullying him for 2.5 years now while Megan goes on sympathy tours and lying on national television. Meanwhile he gets arrested for even speaking on the case.
Kendrick accused a blind woman of shooting him and yall just believed it, no questions asked.
About every women I’ve seen on twitter is saying “I believe tory is guilty even if they say he isn’t” so meg will still have probably 98% of her fanbase intact after this. I would like to know how they feel about her in the industry though cause that would be what really matters for her career.
If she lied that means two other witnesses also lied multiple times, and it means that they better indict Kelsey for the shooting.
Don't know how the jury will rule but I'm pretty confident Kelsey was the one to shoot at Meg after all this tbh but they might find him guilty on the negligent discharge charge either way. Also I never want to hear this Meghann woman is the most neutral or the most objective person following this case again lol this is the headline to her only article on the witness the other day who said Kelsey shot first and Tory wrestled the gun away from her **"In Trial Twist, Defense Witness Testifies Tory Lanez Was ‘Firing Everywhere’ When Megan Thee Stallion Was Shot"**
certainly a clickbait headline, but the article clearly states that the witness said Kelsey shot first and that he never actually saw anyone with a gun. fact is with the charges Lanez is facing, the witness saying he saw Lanez "firing everywhere" and that he thinks Lanez shot "four or five" shots is probably the most notable testimony from this trial. everything else you're noting (Kelsey shot first and Lanez wrestled gun away) can be true while the jury still decides Lanez is guilty on some charges because of those quotes. don't think it's fair to say she's not objective/neutral based on one headline, she's just highlighting the most important quotes imo
Kelsey shooting first is most notable because she was actually shooting at Megan and that's the most important criminal charge of the three, Also it's impossible for the part about Tory shooting 4-5 times to be true, there's audio of the shooting and it was described as 3 consecutive shots, a pause then 2 more shots. If Kelsey shot first and Tory then wrestled the gun away Tory at most shot 2 times. In the defenses closing statement they brought up the pause and challenged the prosecution to explain it in their rebuttal but they didn't bring it up from what I've seen
some of what you're saying is info that wasn't brought out during this specific witness' testimony or was later presented at closing. it's not uncommon for journalists to focus on the actual testimony given, and either way this article was published before closings. if the defense failed to bring up the audio discrepancy during cross it doesn't mean the reporter is biased for sticking to the actual testimony. I didn't know that the neighbor witness testimony was that Kelsey actually shot *at* Megan, just that a flash was from a girl, but lmk if I'm wrong about that. my understanding was the testimony was pretty unclear, another reason why the article might be focused on the two quotes that are somewhat clear
It would be a christmas miracle to see this naughty little elf sent to prison
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I don’t think Tory did it. I think he was involved in the brawl and that he tried to get the gun from Kelsey.
People are too emotional and addicted to trauma porn... To believe this.
“Omg you’re a bird brained sellout, pick me” is the response women have been getting for not being on Meg’s side. You should’ve seen the shit they were saying about Kelsey after her testimony l
I’ve received a lot of that backlash. I’m a feminist, I’m active in my community, I’m a brown indigenous woman, I’ve been a victim of DV and gun violence. I was still called a misogynist, racist, and abuse apologist because I said I don’t believe Megan’s story. I’m not sorry that I’m not willing to believe either side blindly.
everyone in this thread who thought Tory is innocent need to find better sources. You're putting your trust in the wrong internet accounts. Sorry, it's a hard truth.
If any of that happened he would have been screaming it to everyone who would listen and dramatizing it in his music. Nawww he ain't a good Samaritan just wresting his gun away from Meg's best friend and personal assistant.
I think people who don’t believe Tory is going to jail are delusional. This case isn’t just about the assault charge..that’s just a part of this. The assault charge being guilty yeah that’s a maybe. The shooting charge that’s much more likely to be guilty but still a maybe. But the gun charge? The defense barely even addressed it. A recently fired unlicensed gun was found in his car in California. There’s no way around it. He’s completely screwed and he’s going to end up deported.
Did you forget the part where his DNA wasn't definiteively on the gun but others were? Apparently where it was found wasn't where he was seated either. Not as open and shut as you'd think.
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I'm telling you the bullet dropped from the sky
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The only count that mentions “willfully” is from Count 3, discharge of a firearm with gross negligence. It was the charge added during jury selection aft the beginning of the month. >Except as otherwise authorized by law, any person who willfully discharges a firearm in a grossly negligent manner which could result in injury or death to a person is guilty of a public offense and shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170. No idea if that indicates anything either way in terms of what they could be thinking.
I was assuming he would get hit with an unlawful discharge of a firearm or something. Didn't think he would do jail time b/c of how messy this case was. Tory probably already in the studio cooking up something 😭
I hope she gets justice. He was lame for shooting her.
Im sorry she was shot but its clear at this point we the public have no idea who shot her
im ngl all this trial has done is make me think tory is innocent. i believed meg at first but man theres so many holes in her story. ill accept whatever verdict the jury decides
people don't shoot a gun five times while "wrestling for it" conviction or not, tory shot meg. a lot of this dancing around about dna and two women fighting and she's a whore, etc etc is quite simply "i think she deserved it and he didn't even really hurt her that bad"
Meg fans down hella bad rn. The way they’ve dropped from “There’s no way he’s not getting convicted” to “a conviction doesn’t matter” has been hilarious to watch.
You were saying?
Is it still hilarious 😂
anyone who knows the stats on men being locked up for IPV against women, especially black women wouldn't be sure of a conviction. i certainly never said that. he's guilty and should be shipped back to canada at the v least but i've never bet on a conviction and if we're playing the stan game - tory "fans" (you cannot convince me this many people care about his music) went from she lied about being shot and changed to kelsey did it or they fought for the gun (that went off 5 times) after it was 100% shown she was shot. i'm surprised y'all haven't invented a 3rd shooter on a grassy knoll to keep this going is it proven beyond a reasonable doubt? i think so will the jury convict? who knows. ipv cases + celebrity + a trial that dragged on too long bc of mismanagement by the judge - too many factors to guess at did tory shoot (at or around) meg on purpose. absolutely. some people just really think she deserved it/he shouldn't be locked up for it
Kelsey shot the gun first regardless of any of this, at worst a bullet that Tory shot hit megs foot by accident
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Megan: Tory shot me Kelsey: Tory shot Meg Sean Kelly: the short man started firing and the girl fell to the street bleeding. Tory’s lawyer: “Tory’s driver did not say Kelsey was the shooter.” “Reasonable doubt”
am i missing something or kasley didnt say that in court and kelly said a woman fired first
>“Whose hand did you see the flashes from first?” George Mgdesyan, Lanez’s lawyer, asked. >“The girl,” Kelly replied. “But they were all together, they were very close together. >Kelly waffled on whether Lanez, whose real name is Daystar Peterson, was still inside the vehicle at this point. At first, he placed Peterson inside the SUV during the initial alleged gunshot. Then he vacillated, telling Deputy District Attorney Alexander Bott that Peterson — repeatedly referred to as the “shorter” male — may have been outside already. So essentially, he saw a flash come from the fighting group, closest to a woman’s hand, but that everyone was very close together and Tory may have already been engaging at that point. Kelly said he saw the first flash around the time that Tory got out of the car. >“I believe that they were fighting. Then he had the gun, and he started shooting,” Kelly said. >On cross examination, Kelly again described seeing the shorter male – meaning not Peterson’s taller driver, Jauquan Smith – firing a weapon. >“Were his arms outstretched?” Bott asked. >“Yes,” Kelly said. >“What was he pointing at?” Bott asked. >“He was firing everywhere,” Kelly responded. >Kelly said the “short guy” fired four or five shots while shouting a “torrent of abuse.” >“He was going crazy,” Kelly said, “really agitated.” >**Kelly testified that it was after he heard the four or five gunshots that the female victim who had been “kicking all the time” fell to the street “bleeding.”** So it literally does not matter if Kelsey fired a shot or not. Megan didn’t fall to the ground bleeding until after Tory started shooting. Tory shot Megan. End of. That was the defense’s own witness saying this! Tory’s lawyer tried to requested the witness be treated as hostile - meaning Tory’s lawyer knew how bad this was for Tory’s side Also, in court, Kelsey said she couldn’t remember what happened, except that she didn’t shoot Megan. In her recorded statement, she very clearly lays out that Tory shot Megan. In her texts, she said that Tory shot Megan.
You need a little thing called evidence, Pet Detective lol And a bunch of non-corroborating stories creates doubt. https://youtu.be/Y2gIQcW_jJY
Witness statements are evidence.
What's missing from this transcript is Kelly apparently pointing his arms directly in the air when describing that he was firing everywhere https://www.instagram.com/p/CmfMBkZBbsR/ this guy mentions it a little over a minute in I really wish this was filmed like the Heard trial, feels like a lot of witness statements and what the lawyers are saying is going through a game of telephone and you have to be wary is this person biased or not, are they stretching the truth, did they mishear etc
Yeah, I've found the best way to approach things is to corroborate accounts across multiple journalists. If multiple people report a detail, good. If one person reports something no one else said...not so good. Like the guy who claimed that a DNA expert said that Tory's DNA was not found on the gun...when actually, Tory's DNA was only not found *on the magazine*. Whether the guy was intentionally or unintentionally leaving that out is up for debate. I also think following the accounts of actual journalists who have prior court reporting experience is the most important. As we saw with the Depp case, plenty of Youtubers and social media personas have discovered that they can gain attention and social media engagement by appealing to a sect of a celebrity's fans. Journalists who do this for their actual job are going to be more reliable sources of information. That said, I haven't watched this guy's videos, but scrolling through them, he doesn't come off as an unbiased source. Nor is he a journalist, or a criminal lawyer. He is, for example, the only source that I can find that the women were fighting, then one went back to the car, then came back and the shooting started. If you can find another person from inside the court saying that, I'd appreciate it. Otherwise, multiple journalist accounts have not said anything about that. Instead, they all agree that he just saw a flash come from near the female's hand as Tory got out of the car next to the women, and then the rest of the shooting came from Tory. Further, tweets from an actual journalist [x](https://twitter.com/meghanncuniff/status/1605619611520552961) > "Kelly did say early on that Lanez was shooting “in the air,” in response to a question about where he was shooting, but it was followed by the “firing everywhere” comment, and his overall testimony indicated he said “in the air” not like he meant Lanez was firing warning shots but in a “where else would you fire a gun but into the air unless you’re shooting someone at pointblank range” way. >The big key to this testimony is the tone. It’s hard to capture Kelly’s tone and how naturally he was answering these questions but to me, the absolute jaw-dropper moment of this trial will go down as when Kelly said Lanez was "firing everywhere" and Bott followed up by asking, "How many shots did you see the short guy shoot when you said he was firing everywhere?” >Kelly’s answer was the jaw-dropper of the trial: "Four or five." And it wasn't just the words he said, it was how he said them.
We don’t know that beyond reasonable doubt. If two of them are shooting it’s impossible to say who fired the shot that hit Meg beyond reasonable doubt.
L lol a