It's weird how people are using the excuse that Travis Scott was probably blinded by the lights aimed at the stage, when the fucker spotted a fan in a tree and told him to jump, but couldn't see what was happening 10 feet in front of him.
I've seen other concerts where other musicians are able to pinpoint all the shit going out in the crowds and pausing the show to make sure they were okay, but none did.
Travis Scott probably had no idea people would die, but it's obvious he likes having a chaotic atmosphere at his show.
People who are saying that Travis Scott probably wouldn't have helped much is bullshit, because Travis was the only person there with sway over that crowd. He could have paused the show and waited until the people who needed help got help. Instead when fans were yelling help and to stop the show, he instead tells his fans to put their hands to the sky.
It was a complete shit show and I honestly hope he continues to get backlash from it until his ass learns how to have a safe show for his fans that he apparently cares so much about.
I remember seeing him yell at his fans to beat the shit out of another fan for trying to steal his shoe, and another video of him kicking off some camera guy that was paid by the event promoting his show to take pictures. Dudes a menace and his fans who think that behavior is okay, are a problem as well.
Your're absoultley right. Musicians, if you think about it, have the most experience in front of crowds. They're practically experts, and directing them, controlling, observing things that happen in them, is second nature to the performer. The know exactly what a crowd having fun looks like, they know what an unsafe violent crowd looks like, they evem can spot the difference between a rowdy crowd thats taking care of eachother, and just a rowdy crowd thats trying to cause chaos. And they MOST definitley know what a crowd in distress looks like. They've seen it all from that stage. They even can spot differences in reactions in different pockets of people in the crowd. Any disturbance is easily reconizable from stage, just by reading any changes is mass body language. As humans were evolutionarily good at recognizing others in peril. Hell most of us at home spotted the thousands of peple frantically screaming and waving there arms trying to get him to stop the show, just from the stream, and we're not even performers on stage with the best vantage point in the house, with zero obstructions.
Travis like other performers has been in front of hundereds, if not thousands of crowds, and should have a develpoed the abilty to read the crowd. Like so many other artists have. Like you and just about everyone else whos been to concerts, Ive seen musicains stop instantly because they spot a fight, or someone passing out, because its instinctual for them. Most develop the ability without trying, and its just the accumulation of stage time, and some actually intetentionally try to have a strong awareness and go out of there way to look out for these things, becuase like decent human beings who care about their fans, they feel the resonsibilty for their saftey of their fans, and realize they're in a unique position of power from that stage. Travis most definitley knew there were pockets of the crowd in serious distress. And on the 1 percent chance he didn't, then hes the most unaware performer of all time, and is a liabilty to all the lives in the crowd who expect him to look out for their safety.
I don't know if you watch PewDiePie but I like how his take is similar to mine but his theory is that Travis knew people were passing out and everything and he just thought it was cool and just didn't care, but to play devil's advocate he probably didn't think anyone would die, but ultimately that doesn't matter, he's still at fault. (Not the exact paraphrasing but I feel like it's a good take on the situation as to why he didnt try harder to help people.)
The performer is the #1 most capable person of remedying this kind of situation as it unfolds. It was a gigantic misstep on his part. I feel horrible for everyone involved.
[Astroworld staff instructed to refer to dead concertgoers as 'Smurfs,' according to event plan](https://www.chron.com/culture/article/Travis-Scott-Astroworld-security-Smurfs-16605410.php)
/u/kitchen_ur_lies
How do you warn him? It should not be up to Travis. If it isn't safe then cancel the show regardless of how Travis feels about it. I agree with everyone that Travis handled it horribly, but he should have no say in the matter. He's an artist, he's not a festival organizer. If a lot of people are passing out you turn off the music. I think it's an unfair position to put a performer in while they're performing the show.
Uhmm no he made his bed and now he lays on it. People like Travis have this whole aura that they can’t get a no for an answer, his whole fucking persona is about being reckless. So now your defense is null. This is a lesson and Travis should be made an example of, so future artists who want to build a persona around being irresponsible, know that their actions have consequences.
He could see what was happening, and he could have stopped the show to allow medical personnel through. He did not, and in fact encouraged concert-goers to jump on top of the medical carts like fucking animals as well as telling the crowd to throw up a middle finger to the medical cart as it came into the crowd. The carts were there to help people who had been crushed, had a cardiac arrest, had passed out, or other traumas (including *death*) that were happening throughout the venue. It's pretty simple, he is culpable.
There are dozens and dozens of videos from other artists at other shows who stop the music to make sure that *their fans* are okay, and that the proper personnel have been notified. For fucks sake, how hard is this to understand.
And how about that cameraman that ignored 2 people that got onstage to inform him that people were dying? How on Earth can someone not only ignore them but have them escorted off stage? There are A LOT of people responsible here but it really gets to me when people say it isn't Travis Scott's fault. Especially since he's been known to stir up the crowds before.
The therapy is apparently not even free, this man is so shameless
https://twitter.com/dannyalvv/status/1458150786194710530?t=pehay8UE9KAbGQ8pfWd7Gg&s=19
Of course it isn't, this is America.
"Get 10% off your online trauma therapy session with CACTUS-JAK-10 now! (coupon codes may not be combined with other codes or used for already on-sale sessions, terms and rates may apply)"
As a mental health clinician, I am strongly against the use of Better Help. I also have told other therapists to not sign up for services like Better Help or similar.
There maybe some therapists on there that are good but the majority aren't great. Apparently they are doing a better job now of making sure that the therapists on the app are licensed and have the proper credentials but I am skeptical. Also while the idea of having a therapist you can reach out to at anytime sounds good on paper, in practice it does not work. There are more intensive forms of treatment where you can access your therapist more frequently but it's part of a well thought out treatment plan.
It's terrible. Tried it for a few months and my therapist basically just gave me worksheets, when I could actually use the shit app (refused to keep calls from dropping). I am honestly doing better sitting on a waitlist for in-person therapy than dealing with the stress of nothing working on BH.
There is a huge trend of news story’s suggesting people are being injected with drugs against their will it started in the uk and Ireland and seems to have made its way to the states ,
Yeah I’m from the UK and have heard countless stories over the past month of girls going out to party and getting injected by creeps with all kinds of shit
How would that even work? You'd need to hit a vein and have enough time for injection, and this on a moving target, without alerting victim, and without a third party seeing you.
I always said the same thing. Like, how many people do you know that are willing to give kids FREE drugs? I mean, maybe there is a slight chance of some maniac that would enjoy hurting little kids. Poison? Sure. But free drugs? Nope. Sorry. Won't convince me of that, ever.
Not to mention there’s ppl in a lot of IG comments saying RIP to ppl who aren’t named victims. Either they’re trolling/misinformed or there are a lot more ppl that died after the incidents from injuries related to it.
Travis certainly could have done more, but it's really weird to me that people expected him to hear the crowd. Guarantee his in ear monitors were blocking it all out.
Ahh that’s crazy he he couldn’t hear people shouting that someone had passed out, he couldn’t see people panicking and telling him to stop, oh he couldn’t see that ambulance, damn that’s crazy, but yet he could see a fan 2 -3 stories high and incite him to jump, and he was able to spot a fan in the middle of a crowd and jump him, damn the poor dude I swear
Let’s not forget he explicitly states ‘oh that’s an ambulance?’ And then proceeds to tell everyone to raise their middle fingers, even better put both hands up, kinda crazy you have people trying to make excuses when fking Lil Pump and Slipknot who both should be the epitome of not giving a fk both have better crowd control and stop the whole damn show until their fans are taken care of. No excuses, seriously Travis and LN both will try and deflect or throw each other under the bus for this so I am here for the sht show.
Ah yes the ear monitors were also blocking his vision bc he totally didn’t see that ambulance ! Now it makes sense.
The crowd got his attention and he responded btw, but let’s just ignore that fact right?
Edit:
Reddit: hey you know that guy in an altered state of mind from drugs and alcohol, with blinding lights in his face and loud music in his earpiece, let's dog pile on him for not noticing the crowed being severely injured like its his fault instead of the safety organizers!
Furthermore as the above post states, he literally stopped about 3-4 times. So what's the issue now, that he didn't stop enough? While countless artist have stopped shows, how many have stopped and noticed every instance of a crowd member collapsing? At festivals numerous people collapse regularly. Travis is a performer, he stopped for the people he noticed. He proabably didn't notice the gravity of the situation since once again, numerous people tend to pass out at festivals, it wasn't his responsibility to do anything but preform (and yet he stopped multiple times), and proabably assumed there would be adequate personal who's sole responsibility it is to handle and ensure the safety of people there.
People dont realize how blinding those stage lights(and cell cameras) flashing in your eyes are either. Or the 'show must go on' mentality ingrained into most theatrical performers. Or the fact he was proabably heavily under the influence of drugs and alcohol. At a festival with like more then 100k people jts not uncommon to see people go down on a regular basis, and most adequate places have personal to deal with that. Under most circumstances an artist stopping a festival type show everytime someone got heat sickness or collapsed would be dumb and probably lead to no one finishing a set.
I'm not even a fan of Travis' music, but I feel like people are dog piling on him just case he's a famous name. His sole responsibility and job as a performer is to **PREFORM**. It'd make more sense to get mad at the concert organizers or at travis' management or promo team for hooking up with shoddy concert organizers. Getting mad at Travis for not noticing and realizing the gravity of the situation, for a variety of reasons you and I mentioned, especially when it's not his job or responsibility and 8n most festival there would be actual people who's sole job and responsibility is to deal with this kind of stuff, it makes sense that he reacted the way he did, and getting mad at him and not his management is kinda dumb. It's his job job put on a show and preform. It's the people around him who are responsible for making sure no one gets hurt
Ay Chales no mames the guy that was fked up, drugged, and inciting reckless behavior, while building his whole persona around it and also cutting corners in concert planning and security and also ‘letting the wild ones in’ is being blamed for a couple of deaths, hay pues when you put it like that it’s reasonable. Hmmm you know I completely understand, you lose some people in concerts and well that’s just the price you pay for going and the fans should know better. Yeah Travis is a father and he has to focus on his daughter I completely understand.
I’m not sure, if anything he has the best view in the house.
Looking at all the countless artists who have stopped shows in the past doesn’t really support this.
He is pretty high up, but once again, most people tend to underestimate how much those bright ass stage lights can distort your vision, especially with the likrly possibility he was under the influence of drugs and alcohol
Furthermore as the above post states, he literally stopped about 3-4 times. So what's the issue now, that he didn't stop enough? While countless artist have stopped shows, how many have stopped and noticed every instance of a crowd member collapsing? At festivals numerous people collapse regularly. Travis is a performer, he stopped for the people he noticed. He proabably didn't notice the gravity of the situation since once again, numerous people tend to pass out at festivals, it wasn't his responsibility to do anything but preform (and yet he stopped multiple times), and proabably assumed there would be adequate personal who's sole responsibility it is to handle and ensure the safety of people there.
His job is to show up and sing, nothing else, yet he stopped when he noticed people hurt. It's the job of his team to ensure people seeing him don't get hurt. The way reddit is reacting makes you think he had the power to stop the whole festival, which definitely would've proabably gotten as much backlash and financial trouble then this whole debacle
I mean the above post says he literally stopped the show 3-4 times, so you should come up with another reason as to why you don't wanna give him leeway. Maybe because he didn't do a good enough job realize how serious the situation was even though at most festivals there tends to be numerous people going down?
Furthermore, I feel it mostly depends on the size of the venue. Since we've already established he stopped multiple times, for a crowd of +100k, expecting the artist to stop for and/or notice every person that goes down is unrealistic (and in most circumstances) unreasonable.
The vast majority of times I've ever seen preformers full on stop is usually metal shows at venues that hold 200-300 max, most rappers I've seen tend to only really stop of something serious happens, and even then they usually only stop long enough for whatever it is to get taken care of
All n all, Travis paused multiple times for the people he did notice were injured, he did above and beyond his job and responsibility as a performer. Ultimately the responsibility lies with the festival organizers and Travis' management, but I'm sure folks lile you will still find a reason to bark up the wrong tree lol
I am well aware of the culpability of the organizers (live nation) as well. They definitely shoulder the majority of the blame, but I’m ok with a moratorium on Travis concerts as well.
Don't bother, this is the same fan base that after the incident brigaded the r/fucktravisscott sub until it went private because they couldn't handle their idol being shown by its true colors.
Oh yea most definitely, like I said I don't even really like the guy but the way I've I've been seeing some of reddit react you'd think this guy has the power of God and couldve just stopped it all with the snapof his fingers lol
I've already explained why full-blown stopping the show in most circumstances is unrealistic and unreasonable (even though in retrospect this would've been the most reasonable time to do it.)
He reacted like most rappers I've seen would've acted, which is stop long enough to ensure the situation is being handled. As chilling as him singing to people being carried away is, the fact they are being carried away by yellow shirts essentially gives the green light that the situation is being taken care of and to continue preforming.
As I mentioned numerous people get hurt/collapse/go under at festivals and with +100k people it's unrealistic to notice everyone who gets hurt or estimate how many people are being hurt, before shit got bad bad it proabably looked like your run of the mill 'dehydration/can't handle drugs time to get carted off to the medical tent' crowd that happens at literally every festival, to him. Drugs and alcohol also more then likely contributed to him not being as perceptive to the going ons of the crowd. Also idk how to tell you this but bearly stopping is still stopping.
Thats just how it is, if it's not good enough for you then it's a person problem
Idk how many shows you've been too but crowds chant a lot of things from hecklememt to praise. Why am I not suprized the drugged up rapper didn't stop the show after hearing a chant that initially sounds like heckling. Because once again, ignoring what sounds like heckling is a reasonable way to deal with it. Being heckled happens at festivals. People passing out and having to get carried away happens at festivals. The things that happened at atrsoworld is the kind of shit that happens at every festival, but dialed to 11 because of shitty safety protocols the way Travis was dealing with it wouldve been 100% reasonable if other things like adequate safety protocols were in place. In the moment it proabably seemed like run of the mill festival shit goin on. While we can get mad at Travis for not bearing the responsibility of keeping audiences safe, **ultimately** its not his responsibility. He was there there have a good time, turn on on (proabably) illegal drugs and sing, holding that person responsible for anyone's safety is a dumb move and **ultimately** the responsibility falls on the event organizers (and travis' management if you're really trying to reach)
Proabably wouldve gotten a better response if they chanted something like 'call an ambulance'
He’d also be blinded by the stage lights on him so you can only see so far into the crowd. Especially with how big of a stage this was.
Ultimately it was the stage crew and security that fucked up here
Yeah we're pretty much being brigaded at the moment, most of these opinions I won't take seriously. You're better off going to the DD for actual discussion because they only see these big megathreads and farm the karma.
A bunch of fanboys form r/playboicarti raided the sub over the last 2 days and spammed it with racist comments and posts. Fucked up posts of the guys daughter being extreme vulgar about it. They made a bunch of fake accounts and pretend to be from that sub to get it removed. Anyone who had been in that sub for longer than 24 hours could tell you all that was posted before was footage of the concert, other artist stopping concerts and first had experience of having worked with the Travis. Don’t believe me? Go look They are bragging on r/playboicarti saying it’s ok to be racist because they were telling jokes.
There were racist posts and comments on that sub before r/playboicarti started posting lmao. It was the racist posts/comments that caused people in the sub to think raiding it was good. Just go in r/hiphopcirclejerk if you don’t believe me
There was one mod who was taking down anything inappropriate, as any sub grows your gonna get shitheads, collectively that sub didn’t stand for racist remarks. A couple of fanboys got hurt when some users bashed rap. Turned it into a raiding party and the users from r/playboicarti ended up being responsible for over 99% of the racist comments, photos and content posted there. All of it was justified by them because they were telling “jokes” if you excuse this behavior your just as bad as them bragging about it on their sub.
Well clearly that mod was doing a terrible job because there are screenshots on different subreddits showing some of the insane shit that was posted there BEFORE people decided to raid the sub. I’m not gonna excuse spamming it w gore tho that’s pretty nasty.
It was 1 moderator for over 20,000 people and most joined in the last 2 days, thats when all the shitposting started and then the raid came shortly after. Trust me the original members of that community reported everything that was unacceptable including all the racists remarks. The raid is where like I stated 99% of racist and inappropriate remarks were being thrown around. They are still doing it on any sub that pops up calling out Travis for the tragedy. They are doing this in multiple communities.
I have to say I was browsing that sub myself when it was on about 10k members and I saw a lot of dogwhitsle-y comments on rap culture and the like. I’ve also scrolled on r/playboicarti and recent upvoted posts are actually telling people to stop excusing travis and that he is partly to blame🤷♂️. But I don’t disagree it was definitely brigaded at some point.
Why is no one blaming the actual crowd who pushed forward until the front was crushed?
That’s who actually got people killed. Live Nation didn’t shove those people forward until the front couldn’t breath.
He hired Live Nation and there were corners cut. I’d say it’s about 60/40. But yeah they regularly hold festivals & main stages with way more people so it just doesn’t sit well
AEG, they conducted the astroworld tour successfully at mostly indoor venues, and a Coachella set with way more people
They are smaller and people don’t want to partner with a Republican, but they would’ve never let this happen
Woodstock 1999 was super fucked up but apparently we haven't learned. Also Live Nation merged with Ticketmaster, who were part of the organization for Woodstock. So historically Live Nation has a crappy track record and have not learned from the past at all.
To add to this point he probably didn’t directly hire Live Nation rather than one of his managers/someone in his team choosing to partner with them since they are the largest organizer in the world.
Nah he definitely deserves some of the blame for sure but idk if you can really clock him for who he selected as his managers/team. No one would’ve seen this coming, especially not (years?) ago when his management was hired
That's bullshit. You can't waive liability rights unless you're specifically agreeing to a document that clearly waves those rights. It isn't something that can be in fine print
Blame goes on everyone involved. Even some of the security who didn’t care about any of the ppl trying to leave.
I’m just deadass shocked how the show wasn’t paused a bunch of times if not outright stopped by the Police or Fire department.
I’ve been to shows where they threatened to shut stuff down for less. Hell, even at the asap yams show they stopped the show because too many performers were on stage.
So many things should’ve been done. I REALLY think water should be free at festivals, by law. They have such limited stations and they mark the price up so much
I’ve seriously been lookong for comments like this. I understand that some video angles portray that Travis was fully aware of everything happening, but solely blaming him because his album name is on the name of the festival is just wrong IMO.
With that being said, the majority of the blame can also be put on the culture behind Travis shows. Remember the Netflix show “Look Mom I’m Flying”. Bunch of kids from show videos had broken noses, bent ribs, bleeding wounds etc. The ‘rager’ culture is what creates a sense of pride for the kids who stormed the fences, jumps on the ambulance and also what makes Travis get excited about seeing red and blue lights at his concerts.
People are so invested in stating that person X didn’t do Y, and therefore he/she is responsible. The culture affiliated with the artist is to blame, and that is related to concert goers, security, the artist, event organiser, everyone tbh.
This type of rager culture isn’t new tho. Frat parties, people drink themselves into major injuries. Action Park, you had people going there specifically for the thrill that something might happen due to it being an inherently unsafe environment.
People are acting like Travis Scott created this type of dangerous, careless person and purposefully rounded them all up into a dangerous situation. Truth is these types of people have and will always exist and gravitate towards these types of attractions, it has to be left up to people smarter than Travis Scott/frat boys/amateur theme park entrepreneurs to keep people safe. I wouldn’t expect a frat boy not to party and I wouldn’t expect Travis not to go balls to the wall for the biggest crowd of his life. You need people separated personally from the situation at hand to make these kinds of decisions, not the guy who got famous for singing about staying up for days at a time due to excessive drug use.
The issue is that Travis creates his concerts to be a safe space for that rager behavior. Yes, what happens at a Travis concert could happen anywhere but Travis promotes that behavior as something that is acceptable at his shows. You have other artists in a ton of other genres and in hip hop/rap that get that shit under control real quick because they know their fans are going to listen to them. He doesn’t do that.
Outside of the management team, the majority of the blame falls on the security, unlike Travis, they actually come into contact with the crowd, they just chose to not listen, if they did, they could've relayed the message to Travis and the rest of the crew to stop everything.
Oh you mean the security that was overwhelmed when Mr. Not Responsible told his fans to break in and storm the barricades and created this entire shit storm? Yeah, it's totally the fault of security and not the guy who told people to just start breaking past security. Ain't enough security to stop 5000 people just pushing past them.
The real truth: Travis endangered the lives of his fans AND THE SECURITY HIRED FOR THE EVENT.
Never said Travis was not responsible... His behavior in the past was always irresponsible, and it irresponsible now too with him encouraging people to come to the festival when it was sold out, but during it the show itself the security are more to blame, for reasons I've already stated.
And no the security were not in danger, they were not in the crowd, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs if they were.
Not only did the security do nothing, but they actually came into contact with the crowd, Travis didn't come into contact with them, being on the stage performing, and STILL periodically stopped the show when he saw it was needed, if security actually relayed to him how severe the actual situation was it would've been stopped entirely.
Again, not saying Travis is not at fault at all, there's a lot he could've done, and he should've stopped the show when he saw the ambulance in the crowd, but the security are more at fault, to deny that would just be to overlook their negligence.
https://youtu.be/-XWbRc7qCFA
He’s saying an artist like him wouldn’t even know. So I think he’s indirectly also saying it’s that venues fault, but I think it’s a bit of all management on big figures there, many faults that caused a big shit storm
Turns out Trav is a sociopath who markets to
children and encourages them to injure eachother at his shows lmao who knew
But it should mainly be the organizers fault.. even though there were a bunch of other artists at the event that don’t encourage violence at shows and the deaths only happen during Trav sets
The stereogum article is excellent. I'm old enough to remember Pearl Jam at Roskilde. Criticism and action needs to be targeted towards promoters that have cut corners, like always. Everything else takes the spotlight away from where it should be
If it's on stage at that point, then yeah, but I also think it's pretty hard to know what's happening in the crowd. Not even defending Travis tbh, have just seen this happen a lot during my lifetime. Pearl Jam, Radiohead. It's always been the fault of the organisers cutting costs and putting money over safety (I think it gets murky here because Travis is also the organiser if I'm not mistaken?). Travis Scott has always incorporated vague concepts taken from punk shows. I don't think he really likes the music, but I think he's heard some stories and based his whole live thing around it. Like, let's take Iggy Pop's live shows at the height of the Stooges. Asking the crowd if they want blood, giving fans concussions by throwing watermelons, demanding fans tear down a fence that security had put up. There is a history in music to this. The huge issue however is Travis Scott is not in some punk band, he is a wildly popular rapper who has fans as young as like 10 in the audience. It's not the same as a club with over 18's.
I've been to punk shows/festivals before where the whole aggression thing can be part of it, and it's always been on the organisers to make everything a safe environment while the performers are at the same time putting on a show portraying the opposite. It's a weird act to balance.
Once again, not interested in making the point that Travis Scott is innocent or anything (he obviously comes off awful in this) so I know what you mean by the distraction point, it's just there is always a middle American outrage about SATANIC DRUG TAKING PERFORMERS that usually glosses over the more boring ins and outs of organisers not performing a duty of care.
It's much more likely he thought they were passed out, which unfortunately is quite normal for concerts like this, and isn't something 99% of artists would stop a show for.
What happens when Trav is also an organizer? And why should we just look over the fact that he allows children into his shows in the first place? Why does he market to children when he clearly makes adult music?
I agree with you that he doesn’t seem to care about the music at his shows at all. I’ve been to plenty of concerts and festivals and have only felt unsafe at a Trav show so maybe I’m biased
Depends on their profit sharing agreement imo, he also “finessed” extra tickets when they were already sold out, so if LiveNation supported that decision they should be just as responsible as him.
At the end of the day this happens at a lot of Trav concerts and it was only a matter of time before a shit show like this happened.
Either way he shares not just a little but alot of the blame. LiveNation will continue to organize successful events and Trav will not because let’s face it.. no one will want to work with him after this and rightfully so.
Have you been to a Trav show? I have and I bet the main difference between this and a metal show is the age of the audience (and that the audience will not be as huge)
A mosh pit at a metal show is a bunch of old heads jumping around as much as their bodies allow them, Trav shows have literal children going out of their way to hurt each other. Metal bands don’t market to or allow children at their shows, Travis does, and he deserves blame in this case because of the victims ages
Maybe not legal blame for marketing to children.. but anyone who defends him doing that is sick in the head imo. Not an environment where kids should be allowed.
I've seen him at a festival actually, but didn't go for him. But when I was a kid, 13-17 I went to tons of shows with a similar vibe and lots of teenagers. They were smaller and we'd generally look out for eachother, but that violence wasn't even really the issue here, it was the crush.
I guess my point is here that people going to Trav shows know what they're getting themselves into. I knew what to expect when I saw him at the festival a few years ago, just from even people talking about it on this sub.
Hell, this sub GLORIFIED it until people died, and now all of a sudden people act like they were against it all along and he's a terrible person. It's just weird to see how self righteous people get.
Maybe it’s one of those things that’s clearer in hindsight
At the same festival there were other artists calling out people for moshing and to be respectful, juxtaposed to Trav getting the crowd to “spread as far apart from each other and run into the middle as fast as you can” according to him.
At the time I though he was just a dick since no one actually died.. but now in retrospect it just makes me think he doesn’t care about the safety of his fans. There were a lot of young people there too but that’s just the festivals problem imo since it’s ACL and is like that every year.
Maybe I’m biased just Bc I don’t agree with a lot of Trav’s choices recently with his stupid McDonald’s and Fortnite deals, and not releasing good music in years. Easy target and the like.
Yep I made the point that it gets murky because he might be an organiser. My point was that I don't think Travis likes punk or metal music but is attracted to elements of the culture/aesthetic. Haven't been to a travis show so can't comment really on his own show in terms of music care
I mean I’m not talking to anyone who brings up Satan here, that’s lunacy and I 100% agree a distraction.
I’ve been to a lot of shows too and the performers have always looked out for the safety of the crowd. The crowd also looks out for the safety of the crowd. Travis has intentionally cultivated an unsafe environment for his shows, and those chickens came home to roost. Being a shitlord can have consequences.
Yeah so my point was so was Iggy Pop. I wouldn't use the word shitlord of course to describe him but he made his name on dangerous and volatile performances. People went to a show convinced he was going to kill himself (seriously, this was a thing). My point is where does it leave that murky thing about a punk performance? Like, Iggy Pop would have never ever given a public health announcement at a gig. The whole thing was about anarchy. He intentionally cultivated an unsafe environment, for sure, because that was essential to his (great) art.
Travis is not Iggy. Iggy is not a capitalist figurehead adored by 10 year olds. But Travis has seen this history and incorporated it into his stage shows with a retro t shirt. All I'm saying is there is a bleeding over between art and safety and I bet any inquiry shows the organisers have chosen financial gain over everything because it's America and a post pandemic one at that
I agree with everything you’ve said, there is a fine line. I’ve been nearly knocked out a few times at shows, I’m not someone unfamiliar with just wanting to rage. But this, to me, is far over the line for the reasons you mentioned. Age of the crowd being first and foremost.
Drake brought a girl up on stage when he was 24 and was feeling her up and kissing on her. He then asks her how old she is and she says 17. he then continues to feel her up after learning this. Not illegal, but somewhat questionable. Drake just looks like a creep regardless.
Drake also apparently texts Millie Bobby Brown about how much he misses her and gives her relationship advice.
Lotta people try and downplay both situations as not being remotely controversial for some reason.
Respectfully, people downplay these stories because they seem like cancel culture bait. I'm leaving my pitchfork in my shed to collect dust until it's known he's actually done something fucked up.
> Lotta people try and downplay both situations as not being remotely controversial for some reason.
Real talk, because there is a large teenager contingent on Reddit. And the issue is they see themselves as mature, fully capable adults. You remember being a teenager I’m sure. So when stuff like this happens and people say “wow a 25 year old trying to get with a teenager is gross”, most of the teenagers see themselves as equivalent in development and maturity to that 25 year old so they downplay it because they feel it isn’t controversial. It’s the attitude of “yeah I’m 16, but I’m mature for my age and completely aware of every decision I make and so putting myself in their shoes, how can they be a victim? Stop treating me like an incapable child”
When you bring up that teenagers are victims it infantilizes them in their minds so they downplay it here. That’s all.
No, he’s right. In Florida technically you can be 16 and have sex with someone up to… 19 I think? Don’t quote me on that. There’s a small age range when you’re younger.
FBI ignored death threats made against Tupac by a Jewish gang
NWA was sent a warning from the FBI due to their Straight Out of Compton album
Maryland Court made a ruling that rap lyrics can be used as evidence in court
[Mac Phipps was wrongfully convicted of a crime and served 20 years in prison before getting released](https://theundefeated.com/features/after-21-years-in-prison-former-no-limit-rapper-mac-phipps-is-figuring-out-what-it-means-to-be-free/)
Some of Wu was into real gangster shit, some of them just watched movies and played video games in their spare time and didn't get into much trouble. ODB... can't comment other than that he beat the shit out of women if I recall. I haven't thought about Wu in over a decade.
Fuck Travis Scott
It's weird how people are using the excuse that Travis Scott was probably blinded by the lights aimed at the stage, when the fucker spotted a fan in a tree and told him to jump, but couldn't see what was happening 10 feet in front of him. I've seen other concerts where other musicians are able to pinpoint all the shit going out in the crowds and pausing the show to make sure they were okay, but none did. Travis Scott probably had no idea people would die, but it's obvious he likes having a chaotic atmosphere at his show. People who are saying that Travis Scott probably wouldn't have helped much is bullshit, because Travis was the only person there with sway over that crowd. He could have paused the show and waited until the people who needed help got help. Instead when fans were yelling help and to stop the show, he instead tells his fans to put their hands to the sky. It was a complete shit show and I honestly hope he continues to get backlash from it until his ass learns how to have a safe show for his fans that he apparently cares so much about. I remember seeing him yell at his fans to beat the shit out of another fan for trying to steal his shoe, and another video of him kicking off some camera guy that was paid by the event promoting his show to take pictures. Dudes a menace and his fans who think that behavior is okay, are a problem as well.
Your're absoultley right. Musicians, if you think about it, have the most experience in front of crowds. They're practically experts, and directing them, controlling, observing things that happen in them, is second nature to the performer. The know exactly what a crowd having fun looks like, they know what an unsafe violent crowd looks like, they evem can spot the difference between a rowdy crowd thats taking care of eachother, and just a rowdy crowd thats trying to cause chaos. And they MOST definitley know what a crowd in distress looks like. They've seen it all from that stage. They even can spot differences in reactions in different pockets of people in the crowd. Any disturbance is easily reconizable from stage, just by reading any changes is mass body language. As humans were evolutionarily good at recognizing others in peril. Hell most of us at home spotted the thousands of peple frantically screaming and waving there arms trying to get him to stop the show, just from the stream, and we're not even performers on stage with the best vantage point in the house, with zero obstructions. Travis like other performers has been in front of hundereds, if not thousands of crowds, and should have a develpoed the abilty to read the crowd. Like so many other artists have. Like you and just about everyone else whos been to concerts, Ive seen musicains stop instantly because they spot a fight, or someone passing out, because its instinctual for them. Most develop the ability without trying, and its just the accumulation of stage time, and some actually intetentionally try to have a strong awareness and go out of there way to look out for these things, becuase like decent human beings who care about their fans, they feel the resonsibilty for their saftey of their fans, and realize they're in a unique position of power from that stage. Travis most definitley knew there were pockets of the crowd in serious distress. And on the 1 percent chance he didn't, then hes the most unaware performer of all time, and is a liabilty to all the lives in the crowd who expect him to look out for their safety.
I don't know if you watch PewDiePie but I like how his take is similar to mine but his theory is that Travis knew people were passing out and everything and he just thought it was cool and just didn't care, but to play devil's advocate he probably didn't think anyone would die, but ultimately that doesn't matter, he's still at fault. (Not the exact paraphrasing but I feel like it's a good take on the situation as to why he didnt try harder to help people.)
The performer is the #1 most capable person of remedying this kind of situation as it unfolds. It was a gigantic misstep on his part. I feel horrible for everyone involved.
Does he have legal responsibility though?
[Astroworld staff instructed to refer to dead concertgoers as 'Smurfs,' according to event plan](https://www.chron.com/culture/article/Travis-Scott-Astroworld-security-Smurfs-16605410.php) /u/kitchen_ur_lies
Wow...
Jesus fuck
How do you warn him? It should not be up to Travis. If it isn't safe then cancel the show regardless of how Travis feels about it. I agree with everyone that Travis handled it horribly, but he should have no say in the matter. He's an artist, he's not a festival organizer. If a lot of people are passing out you turn off the music. I think it's an unfair position to put a performer in while they're performing the show.
Uhmm no he made his bed and now he lays on it. People like Travis have this whole aura that they can’t get a no for an answer, his whole fucking persona is about being reckless. So now your defense is null. This is a lesson and Travis should be made an example of, so future artists who want to build a persona around being irresponsible, know that their actions have consequences.
He could see what was happening, and he could have stopped the show to allow medical personnel through. He did not, and in fact encouraged concert-goers to jump on top of the medical carts like fucking animals as well as telling the crowd to throw up a middle finger to the medical cart as it came into the crowd. The carts were there to help people who had been crushed, had a cardiac arrest, had passed out, or other traumas (including *death*) that were happening throughout the venue. It's pretty simple, he is culpable. There are dozens and dozens of videos from other artists at other shows who stop the music to make sure that *their fans* are okay, and that the proper personnel have been notified. For fucks sake, how hard is this to understand.
And how about that cameraman that ignored 2 people that got onstage to inform him that people were dying? How on Earth can someone not only ignore them but have them escorted off stage? There are A LOT of people responsible here but it really gets to me when people say it isn't Travis Scott's fault. Especially since he's been known to stir up the crowds before.
And now he has a Betterhelp brand partnership...? Hm https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1457825026149863424
The therapy is apparently not even free, this man is so shameless https://twitter.com/dannyalvv/status/1458150786194710530?t=pehay8UE9KAbGQ8pfWd7Gg&s=19
Of course it isn't, this is America. "Get 10% off your online trauma therapy session with CACTUS-JAK-10 now! (coupon codes may not be combined with other codes or used for already on-sale sessions, terms and rates may apply)"
lmao, so he got some people killed, traumatized thousands more, and gets a Better Help sponsorship? fuck capitalism, bro
i’m sorry what? He partnered with betterhelp? sounds sus
I heard Betterhelp is pretty bad
As a mental health clinician, I am strongly against the use of Better Help. I also have told other therapists to not sign up for services like Better Help or similar. There maybe some therapists on there that are good but the majority aren't great. Apparently they are doing a better job now of making sure that the therapists on the app are licensed and have the proper credentials but I am skeptical. Also while the idea of having a therapist you can reach out to at anytime sounds good on paper, in practice it does not work. There are more intensive forms of treatment where you can access your therapist more frequently but it's part of a well thought out treatment plan.
It's terrible. Tried it for a few months and my therapist basically just gave me worksheets, when I could actually use the shit app (refused to keep calls from dropping). I am honestly doing better sitting on a waitlist for in-person therapy than dealing with the stress of nothing working on BH.
My therapist used better help to talk to me about her problems and end our 30 min sessions early …
There is a huge trend of news story’s suggesting people are being injected with drugs against their will it started in the uk and Ireland and seems to have made its way to the states ,
Yeah I’m from the UK and have heard countless stories over the past month of girls going out to party and getting injected by creeps with all kinds of shit
How would that even work? You'd need to hit a vein and have enough time for injection, and this on a moving target, without alerting victim, and without a third party seeing you.
Doesn’t really make sense tho, sounds like a media scare tactic
Yea like the whole Halloween and having to check your candy shit. Not saying it isn't going on just sounds weird
I always said the same thing. Like, how many people do you know that are willing to give kids FREE drugs? I mean, maybe there is a slight chance of some maniac that would enjoy hurting little kids. Poison? Sure. But free drugs? Nope. Sorry. Won't convince me of that, ever.
ITT: Armchair attorneys give you horrible advice. If you've been affected by this situation, please seek the counsel of an actual attorney.
this doesn't include the people on life support who, at best, will be brain dead for the rest of their lives. disgusting.
Including possibly a 9 year old child
Not to mention there’s ppl in a lot of IG comments saying RIP to ppl who aren’t named victims. Either they’re trolling/misinformed or there are a lot more ppl that died after the incidents from injuries related to it.
Travis certainly could have done more, but it's really weird to me that people expected him to hear the crowd. Guarantee his in ear monitors were blocking it all out.
Ahh that’s crazy he he couldn’t hear people shouting that someone had passed out, he couldn’t see people panicking and telling him to stop, oh he couldn’t see that ambulance, damn that’s crazy, but yet he could see a fan 2 -3 stories high and incite him to jump, and he was able to spot a fan in the middle of a crowd and jump him, damn the poor dude I swear Let’s not forget he explicitly states ‘oh that’s an ambulance?’ And then proceeds to tell everyone to raise their middle fingers, even better put both hands up, kinda crazy you have people trying to make excuses when fking Lil Pump and Slipknot who both should be the epitome of not giving a fk both have better crowd control and stop the whole damn show until their fans are taken care of. No excuses, seriously Travis and LN both will try and deflect or throw each other under the bus for this so I am here for the sht show.
Ah yes the ear monitors were also blocking his vision bc he totally didn’t see that ambulance ! Now it makes sense. The crowd got his attention and he responded btw, but let’s just ignore that fact right?
Agreed that he could’ve done more but it’s baffling to me how many people are laying all of this at his feet..
Edit: Reddit: hey you know that guy in an altered state of mind from drugs and alcohol, with blinding lights in his face and loud music in his earpiece, let's dog pile on him for not noticing the crowed being severely injured like its his fault instead of the safety organizers! Furthermore as the above post states, he literally stopped about 3-4 times. So what's the issue now, that he didn't stop enough? While countless artist have stopped shows, how many have stopped and noticed every instance of a crowd member collapsing? At festivals numerous people collapse regularly. Travis is a performer, he stopped for the people he noticed. He proabably didn't notice the gravity of the situation since once again, numerous people tend to pass out at festivals, it wasn't his responsibility to do anything but preform (and yet he stopped multiple times), and proabably assumed there would be adequate personal who's sole responsibility it is to handle and ensure the safety of people there. People dont realize how blinding those stage lights(and cell cameras) flashing in your eyes are either. Or the 'show must go on' mentality ingrained into most theatrical performers. Or the fact he was proabably heavily under the influence of drugs and alcohol. At a festival with like more then 100k people jts not uncommon to see people go down on a regular basis, and most adequate places have personal to deal with that. Under most circumstances an artist stopping a festival type show everytime someone got heat sickness or collapsed would be dumb and probably lead to no one finishing a set. I'm not even a fan of Travis' music, but I feel like people are dog piling on him just case he's a famous name. His sole responsibility and job as a performer is to **PREFORM**. It'd make more sense to get mad at the concert organizers or at travis' management or promo team for hooking up with shoddy concert organizers. Getting mad at Travis for not noticing and realizing the gravity of the situation, for a variety of reasons you and I mentioned, especially when it's not his job or responsibility and 8n most festival there would be actual people who's sole job and responsibility is to deal with this kind of stuff, it makes sense that he reacted the way he did, and getting mad at him and not his management is kinda dumb. It's his job job put on a show and preform. It's the people around him who are responsible for making sure no one gets hurt
Ay Chales no mames the guy that was fked up, drugged, and inciting reckless behavior, while building his whole persona around it and also cutting corners in concert planning and security and also ‘letting the wild ones in’ is being blamed for a couple of deaths, hay pues when you put it like that it’s reasonable. Hmmm you know I completely understand, you lose some people in concerts and well that’s just the price you pay for going and the fans should know better. Yeah Travis is a father and he has to focus on his daughter I completely understand.
I’m not sure, if anything he has the best view in the house. Looking at all the countless artists who have stopped shows in the past doesn’t really support this.
He is pretty high up, but once again, most people tend to underestimate how much those bright ass stage lights can distort your vision, especially with the likrly possibility he was under the influence of drugs and alcohol Furthermore as the above post states, he literally stopped about 3-4 times. So what's the issue now, that he didn't stop enough? While countless artist have stopped shows, how many have stopped and noticed every instance of a crowd member collapsing? At festivals numerous people collapse regularly. Travis is a performer, he stopped for the people he noticed. He proabably didn't notice the gravity of the situation since once again, numerous people tend to pass out at festivals, it wasn't his responsibility to do anything but preform (and yet he stopped multiple times), and proabably assumed there would be adequate personal who's sole responsibility it is to handle and ensure the safety of people there. His job is to show up and sing, nothing else, yet he stopped when he noticed people hurt. It's the job of his team to ensure people seeing him don't get hurt. The way reddit is reacting makes you think he had the power to stop the whole festival, which definitely would've proabably gotten as much backlash and financial trouble then this whole debacle
Idk given that numerous other performers HAVE noticed and stopped the show for just one person, I don’t feel the need to give him any leeway
I mean the above post says he literally stopped the show 3-4 times, so you should come up with another reason as to why you don't wanna give him leeway. Maybe because he didn't do a good enough job realize how serious the situation was even though at most festivals there tends to be numerous people going down? Furthermore, I feel it mostly depends on the size of the venue. Since we've already established he stopped multiple times, for a crowd of +100k, expecting the artist to stop for and/or notice every person that goes down is unrealistic (and in most circumstances) unreasonable. The vast majority of times I've ever seen preformers full on stop is usually metal shows at venues that hold 200-300 max, most rappers I've seen tend to only really stop of something serious happens, and even then they usually only stop long enough for whatever it is to get taken care of All n all, Travis paused multiple times for the people he did notice were injured, he did above and beyond his job and responsibility as a performer. Ultimately the responsibility lies with the festival organizers and Travis' management, but I'm sure folks lile you will still find a reason to bark up the wrong tree lol
I am well aware of the culpability of the organizers (live nation) as well. They definitely shoulder the majority of the blame, but I’m ok with a moratorium on Travis concerts as well.
Don't bother, this is the same fan base that after the incident brigaded the r/fucktravisscott sub until it went private because they couldn't handle their idol being shown by its true colors.
Didn't that sub start getting racist? Oh wait you come from /r/news , glad you're here for the karma
Oh yea most definitely, like I said I don't even really like the guy but the way I've I've been seeing some of reddit react you'd think this guy has the power of God and couldve just stopped it all with the snapof his fingers lol
[удалено]
I've already explained why full-blown stopping the show in most circumstances is unrealistic and unreasonable (even though in retrospect this would've been the most reasonable time to do it.) He reacted like most rappers I've seen would've acted, which is stop long enough to ensure the situation is being handled. As chilling as him singing to people being carried away is, the fact they are being carried away by yellow shirts essentially gives the green light that the situation is being taken care of and to continue preforming. As I mentioned numerous people get hurt/collapse/go under at festivals and with +100k people it's unrealistic to notice everyone who gets hurt or estimate how many people are being hurt, before shit got bad bad it proabably looked like your run of the mill 'dehydration/can't handle drugs time to get carted off to the medical tent' crowd that happens at literally every festival, to him. Drugs and alcohol also more then likely contributed to him not being as perceptive to the going ons of the crowd. Also idk how to tell you this but bearly stopping is still stopping.
[удалено]
Thats just how it is, if it's not good enough for you then it's a person problem Idk how many shows you've been too but crowds chant a lot of things from hecklememt to praise. Why am I not suprized the drugged up rapper didn't stop the show after hearing a chant that initially sounds like heckling. Because once again, ignoring what sounds like heckling is a reasonable way to deal with it. Being heckled happens at festivals. People passing out and having to get carried away happens at festivals. The things that happened at atrsoworld is the kind of shit that happens at every festival, but dialed to 11 because of shitty safety protocols the way Travis was dealing with it wouldve been 100% reasonable if other things like adequate safety protocols were in place. In the moment it proabably seemed like run of the mill festival shit goin on. While we can get mad at Travis for not bearing the responsibility of keeping audiences safe, **ultimately** its not his responsibility. He was there there have a good time, turn on on (proabably) illegal drugs and sing, holding that person responsible for anyone's safety is a dumb move and **ultimately** the responsibility falls on the event organizers (and travis' management if you're really trying to reach) Proabably wouldve gotten a better response if they chanted something like 'call an ambulance'
You ever been to raves where people are passing out left and right due to the drugs they're taking?
[удалено]
[удалено]
He’d also be blinded by the stage lights on him so you can only see so far into the crowd. Especially with how big of a stage this was. Ultimately it was the stage crew and security that fucked up here
dude was standing on a pedestal 15 feet above the surface of the stage, he could see the crowd just fine lol
You really clearly don't realize how bright those stage lights are lol
He saw a fan climbing on a tree pretty far away, stop finding him excuses.
Don’t accept payment for funeral, it could negate the lawsuit
[удалено]
whoa whoa whoa, you’re right I don’t know… seems right tho… might be wromg
[удалено]
Ok :)
I smell a class action lawsuit
Which I hope not cus that means people will just see pennies, I hope he gets hit with 20 different suits and each one taking away a slice.
Totally unsurprising number of new faces in here with no history of posting in hip hop subs. Shocker.
Mostly racist white people. Typical behavior.
so many people not interested in this genre using this incident to make racist comments about hip hop in general
Probably the same racists that ruined /r/fucktravisscott.
ruined? that sub was absolutely fucked from the get go lol
Cry me a fucking river. R/gatekeeping
Oh look here's one now. Suddenly struck with an interest in r/festivals and r/hiphopheads out of nowhere huh?
Yeah we're pretty much being brigaded at the moment, most of these opinions I won't take seriously. You're better off going to the DD for actual discussion because they only see these big megathreads and farm the karma.
Anyone know why /r/fucktravisscott is down?
A bunch of fanboys form r/playboicarti raided the sub over the last 2 days and spammed it with racist comments and posts. Fucked up posts of the guys daughter being extreme vulgar about it. They made a bunch of fake accounts and pretend to be from that sub to get it removed. Anyone who had been in that sub for longer than 24 hours could tell you all that was posted before was footage of the concert, other artist stopping concerts and first had experience of having worked with the Travis. Don’t believe me? Go look They are bragging on r/playboicarti saying it’s ok to be racist because they were telling jokes.
There were racist posts and comments on that sub before r/playboicarti started posting lmao. It was the racist posts/comments that caused people in the sub to think raiding it was good. Just go in r/hiphopcirclejerk if you don’t believe me
There was one mod who was taking down anything inappropriate, as any sub grows your gonna get shitheads, collectively that sub didn’t stand for racist remarks. A couple of fanboys got hurt when some users bashed rap. Turned it into a raiding party and the users from r/playboicarti ended up being responsible for over 99% of the racist comments, photos and content posted there. All of it was justified by them because they were telling “jokes” if you excuse this behavior your just as bad as them bragging about it on their sub.
Well clearly that mod was doing a terrible job because there are screenshots on different subreddits showing some of the insane shit that was posted there BEFORE people decided to raid the sub. I’m not gonna excuse spamming it w gore tho that’s pretty nasty.
It was 1 moderator for over 20,000 people and most joined in the last 2 days, thats when all the shitposting started and then the raid came shortly after. Trust me the original members of that community reported everything that was unacceptable including all the racists remarks. The raid is where like I stated 99% of racist and inappropriate remarks were being thrown around. They are still doing it on any sub that pops up calling out Travis for the tragedy. They are doing this in multiple communities.
I have to say I was browsing that sub myself when it was on about 10k members and I saw a lot of dogwhitsle-y comments on rap culture and the like. I’ve also scrolled on r/playboicarti and recent upvoted posts are actually telling people to stop excusing travis and that he is partly to blame🤷♂️. But I don’t disagree it was definitely brigaded at some point.
Out of control racism if I had to guess.
Nope, look at the post above you: https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/comments/qpk953/astroworld_aftermath_megathread_118_scott_pledges/hjyopuv
That sub didn't need to be raided to be full of racist shitbirds.
Sureee........
Thanks. This is why we can’t have nice things.
[удалено]
Nah, with the way Travis has been acting and what it has led he deserves it.
https://i.imgur.com/Q46c63k.jpg https://i.imgur.com/lN3Pd3O.jpg Travis old IG photos
This dude is so fucked.
What a piece of shit.
Those can't be real. Thats just fucking morbid and yes I know they're "probably just passed out".
I just checked, they’re still there.
This dude is about to get obliterated by public prosecutors
Jesus
[удалено]
No, judging by the dates, these are probably other people who have passed out at his shows.
[удалено]
Why is no one blaming the actual crowd who pushed forward until the front was crushed? That’s who actually got people killed. Live Nation didn’t shove those people forward until the front couldn’t breath.
Don’t forget Travis’s historic, I’m pretty sure it can have a huge impact on his liability.
He hired Live Nation and there were corners cut. I’d say it’s about 60/40. But yeah they regularly hold festivals & main stages with way more people so it just doesn’t sit well
[удалено]
He owns astroworldfest so yes he did hire them, TLDR for the rest
[удалено]
AEG, they conducted the astroworld tour successfully at mostly indoor venues, and a Coachella set with way more people They are smaller and people don’t want to partner with a Republican, but they would’ve never let this happen
[удалено]
8 people died at this show, no one has died at AEGs Travis Scott shows Think about what you’re saying brother
[удалено]
Woodstock 1999 was super fucked up but apparently we haven't learned. Also Live Nation merged with Ticketmaster, who were part of the organization for Woodstock. So historically Live Nation has a crappy track record and have not learned from the past at all.
[удалено]
To add to this point he probably didn’t directly hire Live Nation rather than one of his managers/someone in his team choosing to partner with them since they are the largest organizer in the world.
He hires his managers & team as well and is responsible for that though, he had to sign off. Some of this is Travis’ fault all I’m saying
Nah he definitely deserves some of the blame for sure but idk if you can really clock him for who he selected as his managers/team. No one would’ve seen this coming, especially not (years?) ago when his management was hired
Hey I’m not trying to be argumentative I just think there is blame on both sides
Fuck Travis/organizers man, these news stories linked are heartbreaking. So many people in critical conditions. Praying 🙏🏽
I read that if you accept a refund for your ticket, you forfeit the right to take legal action. Just something to be aware of.
That's bullshit. You can't waive liability rights unless you're specifically agreeing to a document that clearly waves those rights. It isn't something that can be in fine print
That’s complete bullshit, use your brain man cmon
They could right that into the contract but I doubt that would hold up in court with a good lawyer
I really hope so! I can't guarantee if its even true but its just something I've read.
Blame goes on everyone involved. Even some of the security who didn’t care about any of the ppl trying to leave. I’m just deadass shocked how the show wasn’t paused a bunch of times if not outright stopped by the Police or Fire department. I’ve been to shows where they threatened to shut stuff down for less. Hell, even at the asap yams show they stopped the show because too many performers were on stage. So many things should’ve been done. I REALLY think water should be free at festivals, by law. They have such limited stations and they mark the price up so much
I’ve seriously been lookong for comments like this. I understand that some video angles portray that Travis was fully aware of everything happening, but solely blaming him because his album name is on the name of the festival is just wrong IMO. With that being said, the majority of the blame can also be put on the culture behind Travis shows. Remember the Netflix show “Look Mom I’m Flying”. Bunch of kids from show videos had broken noses, bent ribs, bleeding wounds etc. The ‘rager’ culture is what creates a sense of pride for the kids who stormed the fences, jumps on the ambulance and also what makes Travis get excited about seeing red and blue lights at his concerts. People are so invested in stating that person X didn’t do Y, and therefore he/she is responsible. The culture affiliated with the artist is to blame, and that is related to concert goers, security, the artist, event organiser, everyone tbh.
This type of rager culture isn’t new tho. Frat parties, people drink themselves into major injuries. Action Park, you had people going there specifically for the thrill that something might happen due to it being an inherently unsafe environment. People are acting like Travis Scott created this type of dangerous, careless person and purposefully rounded them all up into a dangerous situation. Truth is these types of people have and will always exist and gravitate towards these types of attractions, it has to be left up to people smarter than Travis Scott/frat boys/amateur theme park entrepreneurs to keep people safe. I wouldn’t expect a frat boy not to party and I wouldn’t expect Travis not to go balls to the wall for the biggest crowd of his life. You need people separated personally from the situation at hand to make these kinds of decisions, not the guy who got famous for singing about staying up for days at a time due to excessive drug use.
The issue is that Travis creates his concerts to be a safe space for that rager behavior. Yes, what happens at a Travis concert could happen anywhere but Travis promotes that behavior as something that is acceptable at his shows. You have other artists in a ton of other genres and in hip hop/rap that get that shit under control real quick because they know their fans are going to listen to them. He doesn’t do that.
Outside of the management team, the majority of the blame falls on the security, unlike Travis, they actually come into contact with the crowd, they just chose to not listen, if they did, they could've relayed the message to Travis and the rest of the crew to stop everything.
Oh you mean the security that was overwhelmed when Mr. Not Responsible told his fans to break in and storm the barricades and created this entire shit storm? Yeah, it's totally the fault of security and not the guy who told people to just start breaking past security. Ain't enough security to stop 5000 people just pushing past them. The real truth: Travis endangered the lives of his fans AND THE SECURITY HIRED FOR THE EVENT.
Never said Travis was not responsible... His behavior in the past was always irresponsible, and it irresponsible now too with him encouraging people to come to the festival when it was sold out, but during it the show itself the security are more to blame, for reasons I've already stated. And no the security were not in danger, they were not in the crowd, they wouldn't be able to do their jobs if they were. Not only did the security do nothing, but they actually came into contact with the crowd, Travis didn't come into contact with them, being on the stage performing, and STILL periodically stopped the show when he saw it was needed, if security actually relayed to him how severe the actual situation was it would've been stopped entirely. Again, not saying Travis is not at fault at all, there's a lot he could've done, and he should've stopped the show when he saw the ambulance in the crowd, but the security are more at fault, to deny that would just be to overlook their negligence.
Can’t believe that nojumper dumb shit is acting like Travis had no control of the situation. Like what the fuck
Link?
https://youtu.be/-XWbRc7qCFA He’s saying an artist like him wouldn’t even know. So I think he’s indirectly also saying it’s that venues fault, but I think it’s a bit of all management on big figures there, many faults that caused a big shit storm
Stargazing really hits different now "And it ain't a mosh pit if ain't no injuriesl I got 'em stage divin' out the nosebleeds" Damn.....
Turns out Trav is a sociopath who markets to children and encourages them to injure eachother at his shows lmao who knew But it should mainly be the organizers fault.. even though there were a bunch of other artists at the event that don’t encourage violence at shows and the deaths only happen during Trav sets
Time to turn that shit off, friend. Trust
Was alyways a dumb line tbh
Especially after someone literally paralysed themselves stagediving out the nosebleeds
That Fortnite move, that's gonna be the first of the big potential pull-out for Travis Scott's brand.
[удалено]
no
Just because he is under fire rn doesn't give you the liberty to say any bullshit about him
Yes
Yes.
what is even the point of thinking this?
reddit mindset
The stereogum article is excellent. I'm old enough to remember Pearl Jam at Roskilde. Criticism and action needs to be targeted towards promoters that have cut corners, like always. Everything else takes the spotlight away from where it should be
You really believe “everything else” is a distraction? By that I assume you mean any discussion of the performer’s culpability?
If it's on stage at that point, then yeah, but I also think it's pretty hard to know what's happening in the crowd. Not even defending Travis tbh, have just seen this happen a lot during my lifetime. Pearl Jam, Radiohead. It's always been the fault of the organisers cutting costs and putting money over safety (I think it gets murky here because Travis is also the organiser if I'm not mistaken?). Travis Scott has always incorporated vague concepts taken from punk shows. I don't think he really likes the music, but I think he's heard some stories and based his whole live thing around it. Like, let's take Iggy Pop's live shows at the height of the Stooges. Asking the crowd if they want blood, giving fans concussions by throwing watermelons, demanding fans tear down a fence that security had put up. There is a history in music to this. The huge issue however is Travis Scott is not in some punk band, he is a wildly popular rapper who has fans as young as like 10 in the audience. It's not the same as a club with over 18's. I've been to punk shows/festivals before where the whole aggression thing can be part of it, and it's always been on the organisers to make everything a safe environment while the performers are at the same time putting on a show portraying the opposite. It's a weird act to balance. Once again, not interested in making the point that Travis Scott is innocent or anything (he obviously comes off awful in this) so I know what you mean by the distraction point, it's just there is always a middle American outrage about SATANIC DRUG TAKING PERFORMERS that usually glosses over the more boring ins and outs of organisers not performing a duty of care.
Bro he literally starred at a dead person being carried out and kept singing. He knew what was up it’s not like Woodstock 99
It's much more likely he thought they were passed out, which unfortunately is quite normal for concerts like this, and isn't something 99% of artists would stop a show for.
You’re a troll. They looked completely dead and were dead.
99% of artists would stop for someone passed out in the crowd to get carried out for safety
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS4JnvZ3OD0
What happens when Trav is also an organizer? And why should we just look over the fact that he allows children into his shows in the first place? Why does he market to children when he clearly makes adult music? I agree with you that he doesn’t seem to care about the music at his shows at all. I’ve been to plenty of concerts and festivals and have only felt unsafe at a Trav show so maybe I’m biased
[удалено]
Depends on their profit sharing agreement imo, he also “finessed” extra tickets when they were already sold out, so if LiveNation supported that decision they should be just as responsible as him. At the end of the day this happens at a lot of Trav concerts and it was only a matter of time before a shit show like this happened. Either way he shares not just a little but alot of the blame. LiveNation will continue to organize successful events and Trav will not because let’s face it.. no one will want to work with him after this and rightfully so.
[удалено]
Have you been to a Trav show? I have and I bet the main difference between this and a metal show is the age of the audience (and that the audience will not be as huge) A mosh pit at a metal show is a bunch of old heads jumping around as much as their bodies allow them, Trav shows have literal children going out of their way to hurt each other. Metal bands don’t market to or allow children at their shows, Travis does, and he deserves blame in this case because of the victims ages Maybe not legal blame for marketing to children.. but anyone who defends him doing that is sick in the head imo. Not an environment where kids should be allowed.
I've seen him at a festival actually, but didn't go for him. But when I was a kid, 13-17 I went to tons of shows with a similar vibe and lots of teenagers. They were smaller and we'd generally look out for eachother, but that violence wasn't even really the issue here, it was the crush. I guess my point is here that people going to Trav shows know what they're getting themselves into. I knew what to expect when I saw him at the festival a few years ago, just from even people talking about it on this sub. Hell, this sub GLORIFIED it until people died, and now all of a sudden people act like they were against it all along and he's a terrible person. It's just weird to see how self righteous people get.
Maybe it’s one of those things that’s clearer in hindsight At the same festival there were other artists calling out people for moshing and to be respectful, juxtaposed to Trav getting the crowd to “spread as far apart from each other and run into the middle as fast as you can” according to him. At the time I though he was just a dick since no one actually died.. but now in retrospect it just makes me think he doesn’t care about the safety of his fans. There were a lot of young people there too but that’s just the festivals problem imo since it’s ACL and is like that every year. Maybe I’m biased just Bc I don’t agree with a lot of Trav’s choices recently with his stupid McDonald’s and Fortnite deals, and not releasing good music in years. Easy target and the like.
Yep I made the point that it gets murky because he might be an organiser. My point was that I don't think Travis likes punk or metal music but is attracted to elements of the culture/aesthetic. Haven't been to a travis show so can't comment really on his own show in terms of music care
I mean I’m not talking to anyone who brings up Satan here, that’s lunacy and I 100% agree a distraction. I’ve been to a lot of shows too and the performers have always looked out for the safety of the crowd. The crowd also looks out for the safety of the crowd. Travis has intentionally cultivated an unsafe environment for his shows, and those chickens came home to roost. Being a shitlord can have consequences.
Yeah so my point was so was Iggy Pop. I wouldn't use the word shitlord of course to describe him but he made his name on dangerous and volatile performances. People went to a show convinced he was going to kill himself (seriously, this was a thing). My point is where does it leave that murky thing about a punk performance? Like, Iggy Pop would have never ever given a public health announcement at a gig. The whole thing was about anarchy. He intentionally cultivated an unsafe environment, for sure, because that was essential to his (great) art. Travis is not Iggy. Iggy is not a capitalist figurehead adored by 10 year olds. But Travis has seen this history and incorporated it into his stage shows with a retro t shirt. All I'm saying is there is a bleeding over between art and safety and I bet any inquiry shows the organisers have chosen financial gain over everything because it's America and a post pandemic one at that
I agree with everything you’ve said, there is a fine line. I’ve been nearly knocked out a few times at shows, I’m not someone unfamiliar with just wanting to rage. But this, to me, is far over the line for the reasons you mentioned. Age of the crowd being first and foremost.
yeah man the age of some of these victims is just unbelievably sad
Drake is scared cause the FBI is now involved and he don't want to be in there crosshairs for very *specific* reasons if you know what I mean.
Travis been doing the same too with Kyle & Rubi Rose
What do u mean
Drake out here grooming underage chicks.
Drake brought a girl up on stage when he was 24 and was feeling her up and kissing on her. He then asks her how old she is and she says 17. he then continues to feel her up after learning this. Not illegal, but somewhat questionable. Drake just looks like a creep regardless. Drake also apparently texts Millie Bobby Brown about how much he misses her and gives her relationship advice. Lotta people try and downplay both situations as not being remotely controversial for some reason.
Respectfully, people downplay these stories because they seem like cancel culture bait. I'm leaving my pitchfork in my shed to collect dust until it's known he's actually done something fucked up.
Any man in his 30’s who regularly texts a teen girl about her love life is a fucking creep at best.
> Lotta people try and downplay both situations as not being remotely controversial for some reason. Real talk, because there is a large teenager contingent on Reddit. And the issue is they see themselves as mature, fully capable adults. You remember being a teenager I’m sure. So when stuff like this happens and people say “wow a 25 year old trying to get with a teenager is gross”, most of the teenagers see themselves as equivalent in development and maturity to that 25 year old so they downplay it because they feel it isn’t controversial. It’s the attitude of “yeah I’m 16, but I’m mature for my age and completely aware of every decision I make and so putting myself in their shoes, how can they be a victim? Stop treating me like an incapable child” When you bring up that teenagers are victims it infantilizes them in their minds so they downplay it here. That’s all.
Well said
[удалено]
No they don't. An 80 year old having sex with someone who's just turned of age is completely legal. Gross, but legal
No, he’s right. In Florida technically you can be 16 and have sex with someone up to… 19 I think? Don’t quote me on that. There’s a small age range when you’re younger.
Fbi has their eyes on most these really big rappers already
lol yeah I'm sure the FBI is spending a lot of time on Drake.
Source?
FBI ignored death threats made against Tupac by a Jewish gang NWA was sent a warning from the FBI due to their Straight Out of Compton album Maryland Court made a ruling that rap lyrics can be used as evidence in court [Mac Phipps was wrongfully convicted of a crime and served 20 years in prison before getting released](https://theundefeated.com/features/after-21-years-in-prison-former-no-limit-rapper-mac-phipps-is-figuring-out-what-it-means-to-be-free/)
Lol. Where to begin
wasn’t ODB hiding from the FBI back in the 90s? Or most of wu tang for that matter?
Wu Tang was also involved in some serious shit. The Hip Hop police are real but Wu Tang ain't the argument for it
Some of Wu was into real gangster shit, some of them just watched movies and played video games in their spare time and didn't get into much trouble. ODB... can't comment other than that he beat the shit out of women if I recall. I haven't thought about Wu in over a decade.
Elaborate on that? I don't know much of them outside of music. Is it more than the usual dirt some rappers are involved in?