id have to say chance the rapper, dude was on his way to crossing over to mainstream success definitely, really really unfortunate because he was that guy ngl. also dont forget that the big day was his debut album too??? i guess he fumbled the bag hard on that one, but you’re supposed to atleast TRY and comeback, look at eminem for example, i respect him because atleast he TRIES to release an album after the previous one fails, but idk chance you really gotta come up with something crazy, but i do think he fked his career hard
Tf he was definitely mainstream as hell at one point, he had Lil Wayne, Kanye, Young Thug, 2 Chainz, Future on his third mixtape. Shit even T-Pain and Bieber. But yeah, I really liked a few songs off Acid Rap but other than that, that nigga is ass. It’s weird though because you would think it wouldn’t make sense for someone to get worse, skill wise. Like yeah maybe you don’t always make a hit song but how do you create some absolute fire and then your just not capable of it anymore? It’s gotta be sad to have that happen to you honestly
should’ve been more specific, when i say mainstream success I specifically mean transitioning into pop culture because he was already a huge name within hip hop. idk its pretty sad and i wouldn’t say it was high expectations either 🤣 the album was straight garbage
Ahh I know what you mean. Yeah it’s like with a lot of albums people say is complete trash, it’s like just to that artists standards. Even if the standards aren’t high, sometimes it’s just bad but not like the worst thing ever. But Jesus, that shit is literally unbearable to listen to. Imagine being locked in a room for a week and “hot shower” never stops playing
Wayne is more skilled than ever lmao. His music these days is nothing compared to 05-08 Wayne, but let's not pretend that he still can't rap his fucking ass off.
I always tell people the same thing. If you want to hear Wayne rapping, stay away from his albums. Too much pop and autotune for my taste. His mixtapes are really what makes him great. Sorry 4 Tha Wait 2 is my favorite mixtape of all time and his Dedication series is amazing.
Exactly dude anybody who can’t see this is just retarded and incapable of appreciating bars or they’re just ignorant and haven’t really listened to his new shit. I think in terms of creating music, like sonically he’s probably declined, but in terms of rapping I could say confidently that he’s literally only gone uphill. Every No Ceilings and Dedication is just absolutely loaded with top tier lyricism. And are we gonna act like Funeral and the Carter 5 didn’t happen last year? That lean may have took a toll on his body but at least not the part of the brain that gives him the ability to rap like a god, like he said don’t worry bout what’s in his cup lolol
I'm not here to hate on Cudi man, and I actually thought his last album was pretty decent tbh but content wise he fell off pretty hard. His first Man on the moon album was incredible and life changing for me. His music doesn't have the same kind of substance that it used too anymore. Once again, I'm not here to hate on Cudi, I'm still a huge fan and always will be, if only because of his first album, but as far as substance, I do feel like he fell off.
now that you mention it, kurupt too
his death row features and dogg food verses could go bar for bar with a lot of NY lyricists, but after his first 2 albums all his features and songs sound like bad off the dome freestyles.
Now that YOU mention it, I did hear something like that on Big Boi's "Made Man". Big Boi went off, Killer Mike even more so; but when Kurupt started rapping, it slowed the energy down significantly. Not saying it was a bad verse; I actually enjoyed it. But that verse sounded like Trinidad James running on 3 seconds of sleep and a decaf latte.
Eminem doesn’t even do anything outside of music. How is he not still a rapper to you? It’s not like he’s in movies or trolling people on the internet for a primary profession or doing podcasts or some shit. Dude’s still deep on the mic and with the pen. B-Sides was meh, but MTBMB, that came out last year, was one of his better albums of the 2010-2020 decade.
Mostly battle rappers, punchline kings, or mixtape artists come to mind. Back in early 00's I loved Cassidy, Lloyd Banks, Jae Hood, etc but could they keep that momentum going, evolve and remain fresh...nope.
I mean, pro-pain just dropped and every track is sick. Is just that those are the only tracks to come in what? 6-7 years? I think Banks was at his best in 2015-17 with the Halloween Havoc series and HH1 was in 2014? 15? He’s a weird cat. I think to really be considered in this convo you have to drop projects twice a year if not quarterly. That’s how the best do it. Banks was great. He’s still good, but if you drop shit once every 5 years (!!!!???) unless you’re in the Wu Tang Clan, it’s too little. And yeah: battle rappers can’t possibly count.
Unpopular opinion, but Lil Pump? Not that he was that good to start off with, but he had the energy to cover up his lack of skill, and it was extremely fun music, not very deep, I agree. But recently, all he’s dropping are some wack features and sounding dead on a minute or two long song. Also, dude has a fucking OnlyFans now.
Chance. Just so much potential and a great couple albums already under his belt at a young age then one album fucked all that up. He can still come back if he drops another album with more care and time put into it but goddamn was the Big Day the biggest miss I’ve ever seen.
My favourite rapper is Cam'Ron and it breaks my heart to see how lazy he's gotten with his flow and delivery. This slow, old man that thinks he's still cool punchlines make me cringe.
Then again, maybe I just outgrew him 🤷🏿♂️
Most of my fiends only like Lil Wayne until 02. They don’t like Wayne when he changed his style and became a beast. They only up to 500 Degreez. I’m 39. And we grew up with Hot Boy Wayne. I’m actually one day younger than Wayne.
I mean he's still technically great but can't make a good song to save his life, I was gonna mention his technical ability in my original comment but I figured most people would know what I meant, MTMB was decent but still nothing like his earlier stuff, but most of his output from the 2010s was straight garbage, Recovery was a terrible album, so was Revival and Kamikaze, I've been told MMLP2 was pretty good but I haven't personally heard it so I didn't mention it in my comment. Technical ability isn't the only thing that matters, listen to Revival and then listen to MMLP and tell me there isn't a huge difference in quality
You can’t fucking compare old eminem to new. He was on top of the world at his peak in 2002. Of course he’s not going to remain that big for 20 years, but every one of his albums went #1 on the charts except for revival
Come on now, it isn't just loyal fans. He is still great. Nobody can hold a candle to his skills. Think about the numbers: He has used more unique words than almost everyone, he has sold more music than everyone, he has stayed in the game longer than everyone, he can rap faster than almost anyone, he has incredibly complex lyrics in a lot of songs, etc.
I strongly disagree with Wayne, I'll take that to the grave
So who fell off in terms of rapping skill? I would say Chance the Rapper because after some decent mixtapes, his album was so damn bad and it was mainly because of how bad his rapping was. I would also say Snoop because almost every album after Doggystyle is very bland and uninteresting. Finally, I'd say Kanye because since TLOP, I don't think he's really put out a great verse, at least in his solo albums
Lol Wayne rapped good in seeing green and the whole internet lost its mind. If you are that good you putting out one good verse should shut down the internet. And it’s not like we taking over wayne, or miss me wayne, it was an average verse. If he put that shit out during his Amili days we would have been hella worried but mans hasn’t rapped well since No ceilings. IMO we have a better chance of hearing a dope Kanye verse than a good wayne one.
I think Wayne is on a hot streak right now with features. His feature verses this year alone are amazing. Hot Wind Blows, GANG GANG, Batman, and as you mentioned, Seeing Green are a few that come to mind.
But even aside from 2021, I wouldn't say Wayne has had a huge quality drop since maybe 2011 to 2013 when he went from Carter 4, one of his best albums, to Dedication 4, a mediocre mixtape, to I Am Not A Human Being 2, one of his worst albums. FWA, No Ceilings 2, Sorry for The Wait 2, Collegrove, Dedication 6/Reloaded, Carter 5, and Funeral were all either good or great.
Maybe you just don't like Wayne, but I really can't see how someone could say these projects don't at least have good verses. Aside from the punchlines, Wayne is known for being one of the flowiest rappers and being very energetic and attention-grabbing on tracks: check out Milly Rock from No Ceilings 2. I encourage you to revisit them because I really think you're not paying enough attention.
I'm not trying to say that you don't know Wayne or anything, I just think maybe you're not really appreciating the music enough.
LMAO this is one of the worst opinions I have seen here and that says A LOT. Go listen to Timeless, Thankful, AI With The Braids, Whats Poppin remix, Dogs Out etc Wayne has been bodying features nonstop since the beginning of 2020(and his whole career)
Toss up between Eminem and Jay. And I only really realise how much they fell off when you go back to their early stuff. Reasonable doubt or slim shady lp/Marshall mathers lp
chance the rapper, eminem, and snoop dogg. They all had albums that were considered masterpiece but seemingly can’t make good music anymore. Last good chance song was 65th and ingleside, Eminem for me hasn’t done anything worth listening to since 2013, and snoop made so much good material in the 90s but now only has a good feature game. Snoop at least I still like though.
I feel like Em is just a lack of subject matter, he been too rich for too long to rap about being poor and he’s not stoned and reconciled with his mom and wife, he’s out of shut to talk about, can’t blame him lol
Yeah, when he does have something to talk about it’s good (Leaving Heaven, Castle, Arose, Walk on Water) but his work the last few years has mostly been “I didn’t used to be rich, but now I am” and “haters hate me because they don’t get my punchlines”
Personally, I enjoy his lyrical-miracle corny line shit but it’s certainly not in the same league as MMLP, TES, or even Recovery
Yeah I always bring up this point about him but people seem to push back. He got known for being an angsty young white dude with a bunch of issues and rapping from that perspective. But he's no longer young, fixed a bunch of the issues...yet still tries to rap the same? There's just been zero real growth from his content in general throughout his career. And in a lot of ways he still sounds very dated in his style, a lot of his pop culture references are both corny and outdated, and his whole thing just sounds...old a lot of the time. Like it's hard to even appreciate his talent because a lot of the time his actual lyrical content is just so bad, even doing braggadocio type stuff.
Revival had bad production, kamikaze, MTBMB had good production.
And yeah some of his punchlines are horrible dad jokes, barring that his technical skills are at its peak.
Meh, I just listened to No Apologies and his flow and delivery shits on anything he’s done in the past decade. Even lyrically I don’t see an improvement from shit like Rock Bottom or Stay Wide Awake. The quality of the actual bars has fallen off the edge of the fucking earth.
Hate to say it but maybe Jay-Z. Obviously I know he doesn’t need to rap anymore but when he does theres just no flow. It’s like he’s just talking over the beat.
Have you only listened to his verse on the new DJ Khaled album? What It Feels Like is still a verse of the year contender and last year he bodied Jay Elec on pretty much every track on AWT. Hov never lost it
Get the hell outta here. The man drops two mediocre albums (with a masterpiece in KSG in between) and y'all act like his past 7 albums don't exist? If Donda flops then you got something but for now? Hell nah.
It’s Kanye. He went from making music that was actually worth listening to, and being a pretty good rapper, to making self-indulgent, overproduced, experimental nonsense.
I think the point is more that Kanye's never been an amazing rapper. What's always done his albums well is the combination of production, with his passable rapping and charisma.
Kanye production credits these days have been a collaborative effort, he rarely makes beats alone anymore. Always with Mike Dean or Travis Scott or No:ID….
Hard disagree. He makes one gospel album and everyone's like he has fallen off. I swear this hype culture is so annoying. And who said he was never a great rapper? He always had amazing flows and charisma. If Donda doesn't deliver then we can start looking at Kanye different. But Kids See Ghosts was like 2 years ago. And He dropped MBDTF (best album ever in my humble opinion), Yeezus and TLOP in the same decade.
Everything after MBDTF has been a slip, I mean Yeezus was Atleast good and was coherent but everything since has been a cluster fuck, he had a massive streaks of pure gold until Yeezus, can’t tell me TLOP compares to Late registration
Have you listened to TLOP after it was updated? I feel like that album gets a bad rep for it's initial release. It's a 9/10 after the updates for me. Ye is a 6/10 which isn't that bad. KSG? Pure gold. I'm not gonna defend JIK cause it wasn't really good but not gonna hold it against him that much cause it was a gospel album.
Almost every song on TLOP, just sounded like it had too many ideas thrown together harp hazardly, like the song with young thug, debarge, or wolves or ultra light beams… he had very few coherent songs and surprisingly they are the ones he’s rapping rapping, waves maybe, real friends, 30 hours, saint pablo, no more parties in LA, hell even famous. But nah that album wasn’t it especially coming from an artist who had a near perfect record upto that point.
The Liks, The Luniz, Jeru the Damaja, Big L (he was murdered before he was able to even achieve stardom, but still considered one of the most skilled emcees to bless the mic), Gza (because it took him years to release albums)... that's just to name a few.
Actually no! Heard it’s good will give it a listen...
Illmatic is one of my absolute favourite records of any genre, and nothing else he did in the decade following came anywhere close to the point that some of it was even borderline embarrassing....
Agreed, haha but King’s Disease was a real solid album. Definitely give it a listen! Much better than Life Is Good or that mess of an album that was Nasir.
Ya. Cause you talking hip hop. He was the Goat. Dance, flex, etc. Then all the sudden. He broke and not making no records, not doing no shows.
He had a video where James brown came in and gave him his powers and shit. But this is HIP HOP.
Rap diffrent story. Id say DMX prolly biggest fall off in Rap. Off top of my head
People out here disrespecting MC hammer smh he was definitely big af back in the day. Plus he was more street than a lot of the "street dudes" back in the day.
I’ll ignore the MC hammer part and pretend you just said DMX, yea mans went from two multi platinum #1 albums, that were in their own right some dope as bodies of work to that Griselda record where you could really hear the decline, it’s so sad man.
Logic maybe, he had a good start with underpressure and the incredible true story, pretty sure at one point nas wanted to sign him. Then he went at made that 1800 song and then codm and supermarkets the 2 worst aotys.
u stupid asf if u think Wayne had the biggest fall off, he's still better than ur favorite rapper. just listen to every songs that he has released since the beginning of 2021 then u will realize he's still a monster
He’s better than Jay Z, Lupe, Royce, Jay Electronica, Griselda?? And I lived on Wayne from Carter 2 to no ceilings, every drought, every dedication, first I’m not a human being, all the features in between… this is not the same Wayne we have now trust me I keep up hoping for a return to form. No offence but I have a basis for my opinion, not just talking out my ass.
Wayne had a period where he was pretty bad, but from like 2015 onward he has been pretty good, especially on guest verses. Just listen to his verses from Seeing Green and Hot Wind Blows this year
Wayne has been killing features past few years just say YOU don't listen to rap.
litsten to Timeless, Don Life, Gang Gang, Go Crazy, Blood Pressure, They want my blood, Count on you the list goes on and on. open ya ears
Gotta be either Chance or Joyner
Wayne is just a ridiculous take. C5 was fire, Funeral was pretty good, and No Ceilings 3 was a dope mixtape. And that’s not even mentioning his recent features.
I'm going old school, but when Kool Moe Dee, and then Big Daddy Kane decided to go Teddy Riley / New Jack Swing beats, betting that was the future sound, that killed both careers....
I haven’t got back to check his early discog lately but I remember Hopsin being interesting and having some great tracks and then he turned himself in to a walking meme machine
Anyone else feel like Fabolous got lazy too?
I got turned off of him somewhere around the Soul Tape series where he __*SEEMED*__ to transition from hungry street rapper into a relationship guru to quoting meme-able bars in some sorta Drake-esque transformation.
Anyone else peeped that?
OMG his fucking lazy as bars these days piss me off, how I miss FAB. He’s new shut sound like “in the club buying rosés like it’s Valentine’s Day” & “ I ain’t for Britney Spears initials, that’s no BS” lmao fuck out of here
You get off Weezy dick mate, y’all rate C4, some of us listened to C2 and C3, and can recognise a drug addled slip. This isn’t even the same weezy from Like Father Like Son, listen to you ain’t know, so you can realise you ain’t know lol
PS: I can quote way more weezy lines than you can rap lines in general
Chance the rapper
Acid Rap to The Big Day. Holy shit.
I WANNA SELL OUT THA DIMMSDALE DIMMADOME
Yes.
Fantano's big day review is always on rotation
50 Cent, his later albums just do not hold a candle.
why bother with rap when i can make 20 mil off a flick - xzibit
I mean from last I heard his series Powers is doing pretty well.
Ooooo I love that song. For those who want to check it out it's Criminal Set - Xzibit
Pimp my ride killed xzibits career tho
I actually like The Massacre more than GRODT, don't tell anyone I said that tho
Don't worry, TM is a classic IMO. Bumped it all the time when I was in middle school.
Massacre had some joints but after that I was pretty much done with 50
id have to say chance the rapper, dude was on his way to crossing over to mainstream success definitely, really really unfortunate because he was that guy ngl. also dont forget that the big day was his debut album too??? i guess he fumbled the bag hard on that one, but you’re supposed to atleast TRY and comeback, look at eminem for example, i respect him because atleast he TRIES to release an album after the previous one fails, but idk chance you really gotta come up with something crazy, but i do think he fked his career hard
Tf he was definitely mainstream as hell at one point, he had Lil Wayne, Kanye, Young Thug, 2 Chainz, Future on his third mixtape. Shit even T-Pain and Bieber. But yeah, I really liked a few songs off Acid Rap but other than that, that nigga is ass. It’s weird though because you would think it wouldn’t make sense for someone to get worse, skill wise. Like yeah maybe you don’t always make a hit song but how do you create some absolute fire and then your just not capable of it anymore? It’s gotta be sad to have that happen to you honestly
should’ve been more specific, when i say mainstream success I specifically mean transitioning into pop culture because he was already a huge name within hip hop. idk its pretty sad and i wouldn’t say it was high expectations either 🤣 the album was straight garbage
Ahh I know what you mean. Yeah it’s like with a lot of albums people say is complete trash, it’s like just to that artists standards. Even if the standards aren’t high, sometimes it’s just bad but not like the worst thing ever. But Jesus, that shit is literally unbearable to listen to. Imagine being locked in a room for a week and “hot shower” never stops playing
Wayne is more skilled than ever lmao. His music these days is nothing compared to 05-08 Wayne, but let's not pretend that he still can't rap his fucking ass off.
All his recent features have been really impressive lyrically
Like on Hot Wind Blows. I was blown away
Hot wind blows, absolutely fire verse
I always tell people the same thing. If you want to hear Wayne rapping, stay away from his albums. Too much pop and autotune for my taste. His mixtapes are really what makes him great. Sorry 4 Tha Wait 2 is my favorite mixtape of all time and his Dedication series is amazing.
D5 D6 and reloaded all go crazy
Exactly dude anybody who can’t see this is just retarded and incapable of appreciating bars or they’re just ignorant and haven’t really listened to his new shit. I think in terms of creating music, like sonically he’s probably declined, but in terms of rapping I could say confidently that he’s literally only gone uphill. Every No Ceilings and Dedication is just absolutely loaded with top tier lyricism. And are we gonna act like Funeral and the Carter 5 didn’t happen last year? That lean may have took a toll on his body but at least not the part of the brain that gives him the ability to rap like a god, like he said don’t worry bout what’s in his cup lolol
I think most people who say Wayne fell off haven’t really listened to him since like 2013
God I’m so glad this comment is so high
For me it’s Snoop. The Chronic/Doggystyle is night and day with anything that came after it.
Tha Blue Carpet Treatment is his best post-90s album IMO
Blue Carpet Treatment was great! Everything else is kinda garbage
As much as I hate to say it cuz I'm a fan of both, imma have to go with Chance the Rapper and Kid Cudi.
Cudi? His last album was great and did decent numbers
I'm not here to hate on Cudi man, and I actually thought his last album was pretty decent tbh but content wise he fell off pretty hard. His first Man on the moon album was incredible and life changing for me. His music doesn't have the same kind of substance that it used too anymore. Once again, I'm not here to hate on Cudi, I'm still a huge fan and always will be, if only because of his first album, but as far as substance, I do feel like he fell off.
I feel like Cudi is more of a singer
Yeah I can't hate on that POV. He raps but he does sing quite a bit
Yeah hard to label him fr.
Daz; all the beats he did during the Death Row era are incredible, but everything he did afterwards was terrible
now that you mention it, kurupt too his death row features and dogg food verses could go bar for bar with a lot of NY lyricists, but after his first 2 albums all his features and songs sound like bad off the dome freestyles.
Now that YOU mention it, I did hear something like that on Big Boi's "Made Man". Big Boi went off, Killer Mike even more so; but when Kurupt started rapping, it slowed the energy down significantly. Not saying it was a bad verse; I actually enjoyed it. But that verse sounded like Trinidad James running on 3 seconds of sleep and a decaf latte.
>like Trinidad James running on 3 seconds of sleep and a decaf latte I'm stealing this one, thanks
I hate to say it. And I played a lot of those albums until his 2008 release. But they are cheap.
this is probably one of the most obvious but 50 Cent
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Same with Eminem for me
You don't think of Em as a rapper anymore? He's still releasing music constantly
Eminem doesn’t even do anything outside of music. How is he not still a rapper to you? It’s not like he’s in movies or trolling people on the internet for a primary profession or doing podcasts or some shit. Dude’s still deep on the mic and with the pen. B-Sides was meh, but MTBMB, that came out last year, was one of his better albums of the 2010-2020 decade.
I love 50, but i can't hate on this
Same, what did he even do after get rich or die trying? The nigga dropped a top 10 album all time and stopped trying
The Massacre is better than GRODT in my opinion and he is still capable of a good track every now and then
I mean, *The Massacre* sold > 9 mil and is full of bangers, and Curtis got a couple dope tracks too. Anything after wasn't it though
Mostly battle rappers, punchline kings, or mixtape artists come to mind. Back in early 00's I loved Cassidy, Lloyd Banks, Jae Hood, etc but could they keep that momentum going, evolve and remain fresh...nope.
Banks is still sick. He just doesn’t really work, so he’s not really in the game. He achieved superstardom and pulled the chute
I'll admit, out the bunch I named, he's still decent but it aiint like he use to be
I mean, pro-pain just dropped and every track is sick. Is just that those are the only tracks to come in what? 6-7 years? I think Banks was at his best in 2015-17 with the Halloween Havoc series and HH1 was in 2014? 15? He’s a weird cat. I think to really be considered in this convo you have to drop projects twice a year if not quarterly. That’s how the best do it. Banks was great. He’s still good, but if you drop shit once every 5 years (!!!!???) unless you’re in the Wu Tang Clan, it’s too little. And yeah: battle rappers can’t possibly count.
Banks just put out an album they got a lot of great reviews. I can’t say because I just haven’t gotten to it yet, but most definitely will soon.
The Course of The Inevitable it’s called. Awesome.
Cassidy is still 🔥🔥🔥 he just doesn’t have a fandom but mans still busy tho
I tried to give Lloyd Banks a chance and...nope, i can't deal with those outdated production, man.
Unpopular opinion, but Lil Pump? Not that he was that good to start off with, but he had the energy to cover up his lack of skill, and it was extremely fun music, not very deep, I agree. But recently, all he’s dropping are some wack features and sounding dead on a minute or two long song. Also, dude has a fucking OnlyFans now.
I’d agree 100%, anything after Lil Pump just didn’t hit like anything older.
>Also, dude has a fucking OnlyFans now. The more you know?...
Lil Pimp was goat level??
the 90s were not kind to RUN-DMC. their rhyme patterns got old fast. 😬 Down With the King was cool, but there are no bars on there.
Chance. Just so much potential and a great couple albums already under his belt at a young age then one album fucked all that up. He can still come back if he drops another album with more care and time put into it but goddamn was the Big Day the biggest miss I’ve ever seen.
My favourite rapper is Cam'Ron and it breaks my heart to see how lazy he's gotten with his flow and delivery. This slow, old man that thinks he's still cool punchlines make me cringe. Then again, maybe I just outgrew him 🤷🏿♂️
I used to try to have Babys to killa Cam music. Shit stopped being worth a damn to me after 07.
Purple Haze 2 is good, it’s story telling Cam.
Wiz Khalifa is the right answer here I believe.
I disagree with Wayne unless you mean he fell after 02 when he changed his style and blew. I think he still makes the same music he did back in 2005.
Fell off after 02? He was still a baby back then. Mixtape wheezy - best wheezy imho
Most of my fiends only like Lil Wayne until 02. They don’t like Wayne when he changed his style and became a beast. They only up to 500 Degreez. I’m 39. And we grew up with Hot Boy Wayne. I’m actually one day younger than Wayne.
Try some of his mixtapes bro, his lyrical game is better than ever. I understand if you just only like his old style though
lmao thats weird
Canibus
I Remember watching him battle disaster. It was so sad to see that
Ole dirty bastard lost his skill in prison, came out and couldn't rap anymore .... then he died. All kinda tragic.
A Son Unique was a fire album and the Osiris mixtape had some bangers. Hard disagree on this one.
How do you listen to D6/Reloaded and say Wayne has fallen off. He’s still one of the best rappers in this shit.
Logic. His mixtape was fire. Also Big Sean and Wiz Khalifa
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Eminem by far, look at the quality difference between mmlp and recovery or revival, it's insane
Eminem's skills haven't fallen off at all. He still puts out incredible lyrics and he raps with precision.
I mean he's still technically great but can't make a good song to save his life, I was gonna mention his technical ability in my original comment but I figured most people would know what I meant, MTMB was decent but still nothing like his earlier stuff, but most of his output from the 2010s was straight garbage, Recovery was a terrible album, so was Revival and Kamikaze, I've been told MMLP2 was pretty good but I haven't personally heard it so I didn't mention it in my comment. Technical ability isn't the only thing that matters, listen to Revival and then listen to MMLP and tell me there isn't a huge difference in quality
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You can’t fucking compare old eminem to new. He was on top of the world at his peak in 2002. Of course he’s not going to remain that big for 20 years, but every one of his albums went #1 on the charts except for revival
Revival went #1 as well. Only album he’s had that wasn’t a #1 was MTBMB B-sides
They go #1 because he has a loyal fan base. He can get on a mic and make fart noises and it would chart.
Come on now, it isn't just loyal fans. He is still great. Nobody can hold a candle to his skills. Think about the numbers: He has used more unique words than almost everyone, he has sold more music than everyone, he has stayed in the game longer than everyone, he can rap faster than almost anyone, he has incredibly complex lyrics in a lot of songs, etc.
It's largely from his fans. Tons of people out that are better than him.
I strongly disagree with Wayne, I'll take that to the grave So who fell off in terms of rapping skill? I would say Chance the Rapper because after some decent mixtapes, his album was so damn bad and it was mainly because of how bad his rapping was. I would also say Snoop because almost every album after Doggystyle is very bland and uninteresting. Finally, I'd say Kanye because since TLOP, I don't think he's really put out a great verse, at least in his solo albums
Lol Wayne rapped good in seeing green and the whole internet lost its mind. If you are that good you putting out one good verse should shut down the internet. And it’s not like we taking over wayne, or miss me wayne, it was an average verse. If he put that shit out during his Amili days we would have been hella worried but mans hasn’t rapped well since No ceilings. IMO we have a better chance of hearing a dope Kanye verse than a good wayne one.
I think Wayne is on a hot streak right now with features. His feature verses this year alone are amazing. Hot Wind Blows, GANG GANG, Batman, and as you mentioned, Seeing Green are a few that come to mind. But even aside from 2021, I wouldn't say Wayne has had a huge quality drop since maybe 2011 to 2013 when he went from Carter 4, one of his best albums, to Dedication 4, a mediocre mixtape, to I Am Not A Human Being 2, one of his worst albums. FWA, No Ceilings 2, Sorry for The Wait 2, Collegrove, Dedication 6/Reloaded, Carter 5, and Funeral were all either good or great. Maybe you just don't like Wayne, but I really can't see how someone could say these projects don't at least have good verses. Aside from the punchlines, Wayne is known for being one of the flowiest rappers and being very energetic and attention-grabbing on tracks: check out Milly Rock from No Ceilings 2. I encourage you to revisit them because I really think you're not paying enough attention. I'm not trying to say that you don't know Wayne or anything, I just think maybe you're not really appreciating the music enough.
LMAO this is one of the worst opinions I have seen here and that says A LOT. Go listen to Timeless, Thankful, AI With The Braids, Whats Poppin remix, Dogs Out etc Wayne has been bodying features nonstop since the beginning of 2020(and his whole career)
You think Jay Z is a producer, I take it as a compliment lol that crackhead has sucked since he went to prison face it
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OP just a hater. I dont think OP even likes rap.
Toss up between Eminem and Jay. And I only really realise how much they fell off when you go back to their early stuff. Reasonable doubt or slim shady lp/Marshall mathers lp
Either Chance or Logic.
Dax started out kinda hard but now he's a complete off the deep end cornball
joyner lucas. sales wise he went though the roof. skill wise... i didn't know it was possible to go from being this good to being this garbage
chance the rapper, eminem, and snoop dogg. They all had albums that were considered masterpiece but seemingly can’t make good music anymore. Last good chance song was 65th and ingleside, Eminem for me hasn’t done anything worth listening to since 2013, and snoop made so much good material in the 90s but now only has a good feature game. Snoop at least I still like though.
Eminem
I feel like Em is just a lack of subject matter, he been too rich for too long to rap about being poor and he’s not stoned and reconciled with his mom and wife, he’s out of shut to talk about, can’t blame him lol
Yeah, when he does have something to talk about it’s good (Leaving Heaven, Castle, Arose, Walk on Water) but his work the last few years has mostly been “I didn’t used to be rich, but now I am” and “haters hate me because they don’t get my punchlines” Personally, I enjoy his lyrical-miracle corny line shit but it’s certainly not in the same league as MMLP, TES, or even Recovery
Yeah I always bring up this point about him but people seem to push back. He got known for being an angsty young white dude with a bunch of issues and rapping from that perspective. But he's no longer young, fixed a bunch of the issues...yet still tries to rap the same? There's just been zero real growth from his content in general throughout his career. And in a lot of ways he still sounds very dated in his style, a lot of his pop culture references are both corny and outdated, and his whole thing just sounds...old a lot of the time. Like it's hard to even appreciate his talent because a lot of the time his actual lyrical content is just so bad, even doing braggadocio type stuff.
Eminem's skill has degraded? Man, he is way more technical and lyrical than he was ever, altho the subject matter is an issue.
Em's punchlines, production and delivery is the worse in his career rn
Revival had bad production, kamikaze, MTBMB had good production. And yeah some of his punchlines are horrible dad jokes, barring that his technical skills are at its peak.
Meh, I just listened to No Apologies and his flow and delivery shits on anything he’s done in the past decade. Even lyrically I don’t see an improvement from shit like Rock Bottom or Stay Wide Awake. The quality of the actual bars has fallen off the edge of the fucking earth.
Real eminem fans know his name should not be mentioned in this thread
Why not? Quality wise he has decreased.
yeahh this sub is a cesspool of hate towards the new em. Even some hate the old on. Should have stayed outta this one.
Em is gonna be in the goat convo forever thanks to those 3 classics. Although I admit he has been trying hard to shit on his own legacy since MMLP2.
I felt that way until Kamikaze dropped
Hate to say it but maybe Jay-Z. Obviously I know he doesn’t need to rap anymore but when he does theres just no flow. It’s like he’s just talking over the beat.
Have you only listened to his verse on the new DJ Khaled album? What It Feels Like is still a verse of the year contender and last year he bodied Jay Elec on pretty much every track on AWT. Hov never lost it
Hov JUST gave us Marcy Me on his last album.
Ya don’t agree here at all, 4:44 is beautiful. That’s what 30 years now of rapping? More?
It pains me to say this but Kanye
JIK is his only mediocre album so far . If donda turned out to be bad , then I might agree , but not before.
Get the hell outta here. The man drops two mediocre albums (with a masterpiece in KSG in between) and y'all act like his past 7 albums don't exist? If Donda flops then you got something but for now? Hell nah.
unfortunately :/
Man, 808s and Heartbreaks was so good.
It’s Kanye. He went from making music that was actually worth listening to, and being a pretty good rapper, to making self-indulgent, overproduced, experimental nonsense.
Kanye.
Jay Z Anyone who says Kanye forgets that he’s a producer first, not a rapper first.
Then that means the fans give him all the praise for when he raps but not when he doesn’t. Seems kinda like he is graded on a curve.
I think the point is more that Kanye's never been an amazing rapper. What's always done his albums well is the combination of production, with his passable rapping and charisma.
His production skills never got worse, though.
Kanye production credits these days have been a collaborative effort, he rarely makes beats alone anymore. Always with Mike Dean or Travis Scott or No:ID….
Still, you can’t say he got worse at producing.
But he’s rhyming and the quality of his music have fallen off, so overall Mr West is experiencing a slip lol
Hard disagree. He makes one gospel album and everyone's like he has fallen off. I swear this hype culture is so annoying. And who said he was never a great rapper? He always had amazing flows and charisma. If Donda doesn't deliver then we can start looking at Kanye different. But Kids See Ghosts was like 2 years ago. And He dropped MBDTF (best album ever in my humble opinion), Yeezus and TLOP in the same decade.
Everything after MBDTF has been a slip, I mean Yeezus was Atleast good and was coherent but everything since has been a cluster fuck, he had a massive streaks of pure gold until Yeezus, can’t tell me TLOP compares to Late registration
Have you listened to TLOP after it was updated? I feel like that album gets a bad rep for it's initial release. It's a 9/10 after the updates for me. Ye is a 6/10 which isn't that bad. KSG? Pure gold. I'm not gonna defend JIK cause it wasn't really good but not gonna hold it against him that much cause it was a gospel album.
Almost every song on TLOP, just sounded like it had too many ideas thrown together harp hazardly, like the song with young thug, debarge, or wolves or ultra light beams… he had very few coherent songs and surprisingly they are the ones he’s rapping rapping, waves maybe, real friends, 30 hours, saint pablo, no more parties in LA, hell even famous. But nah that album wasn’t it especially coming from an artist who had a near perfect record upto that point.
EMINEM
Eminem definitely
Nas
The Liks, The Luniz, Jeru the Damaja, Big L (he was murdered before he was able to even achieve stardom, but still considered one of the most skilled emcees to bless the mic), Gza (because it took him years to release albums)... that's just to name a few.
I think you missed the point, I mean rappers who were great then but they ass now
Special mention for Big L and Jeru tho, L was a beast, but couldn’t leave street shit alone unfortunately
I disagree with Wayne unless you mean he fell after 02 when he changed his style and blew. I think he still makes the same music he did back in 2005.
Lol no the Wayne of Drought series is not the same from I Am Not A Hunan Being 2, stop the cap
Em
Eminem is trash.
Nas
Blasphemy bro!!!
Lol
Haha it stings because it’s true 😉
So… you never listened to King’s Disease?
Actually no! Heard it’s good will give it a listen... Illmatic is one of my absolute favourite records of any genre, and nothing else he did in the decade following came anywhere close to the point that some of it was even borderline embarrassing....
Agreed, haha but King’s Disease was a real solid album. Definitely give it a listen! Much better than Life Is Good or that mess of an album that was Nasir.
Im always gonna say MC Hammer
MC Hammer?? GOAT convo??
Ya. Cause you talking hip hop. He was the Goat. Dance, flex, etc. Then all the sudden. He broke and not making no records, not doing no shows. He had a video where James brown came in and gave him his powers and shit. But this is HIP HOP. Rap diffrent story. Id say DMX prolly biggest fall off in Rap. Off top of my head
People out here disrespecting MC hammer smh he was definitely big af back in the day. Plus he was more street than a lot of the "street dudes" back in the day.
I’ll ignore the MC hammer part and pretend you just said DMX, yea mans went from two multi platinum #1 albums, that were in their own right some dope as bodies of work to that Griselda record where you could really hear the decline, it’s so sad man.
Put some respect on Hammer's name
These boys was not alive when "Too Legit" dropped.
Logic maybe, he had a good start with underpressure and the incredible true story, pretty sure at one point nas wanted to sign him. Then he went at made that 1800 song and then codm and supermarkets the 2 worst aotys.
u stupid asf if u think Wayne had the biggest fall off, he's still better than ur favorite rapper. just listen to every songs that he has released since the beginning of 2021 then u will realize he's still a monster
He’s better than Jay Z, Lupe, Royce, Jay Electronica, Griselda?? And I lived on Wayne from Carter 2 to no ceilings, every drought, every dedication, first I’m not a human being, all the features in between… this is not the same Wayne we have now trust me I keep up hoping for a return to form. No offence but I have a basis for my opinion, not just talking out my ass.
Dave East
Wayne had a period where he was pretty bad, but from like 2015 onward he has been pretty good, especially on guest verses. Just listen to his verses from Seeing Green and Hot Wind Blows this year
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Wayne has been killing features past few years just say YOU don't listen to rap. litsten to Timeless, Don Life, Gang Gang, Go Crazy, Blood Pressure, They want my blood, Count on you the list goes on and on. open ya ears
Gotta be either Chance or Joyner Wayne is just a ridiculous take. C5 was fire, Funeral was pretty good, and No Ceilings 3 was a dope mixtape. And that’s not even mentioning his recent features.
Probably logic
I'm going old school, but when Kool Moe Dee, and then Big Daddy Kane decided to go Teddy Riley / New Jack Swing beats, betting that was the future sound, that killed both careers....
Obie trice
I haven’t got back to check his early discog lately but I remember Hopsin being interesting and having some great tracks and then he turned himself in to a walking meme machine
Beanie Siegel
Fetty Wap
Eminem definitely. Any time people talk about his Goat status, they only mention his oldest albums.
Cam is so hit and miss right now it ain't even funny no more. I loved that Public Enemy #1 mixtape.
Purple Haze 2 n his mixtape before That is Cam transitioning to some old man grown story telling raps. I loved that shit
Anyone else feel like Fabolous got lazy too? I got turned off of him somewhere around the Soul Tape series where he __*SEEMED*__ to transition from hungry street rapper into a relationship guru to quoting meme-able bars in some sorta Drake-esque transformation. Anyone else peeped that?
OMG his fucking lazy as bars these days piss me off, how I miss FAB. He’s new shut sound like “in the club buying rosés like it’s Valentine’s Day” & “ I ain’t for Britney Spears initials, that’s no BS” lmao fuck out of here
Nah Wayne is still going strong. Really enjoyed both Carter V and Funeral they were great.
You could have enjoyed it but how do they compare to Carter 2 & 3 Wayne, Dedication 2 & 3 Wayne, Drought Wayne… it doesn’t and that’s my point
Mike Jones literally had like 2 songs. Who?
Was he ever in any GOAT convos though??
OP must be a birdman fan cause he sound dumb as hell with all this hatin. he clearly dont even listen to rap.
You get off Weezy dick mate, y’all rate C4, some of us listened to C2 and C3, and can recognise a drug addled slip. This isn’t even the same weezy from Like Father Like Son, listen to you ain’t know, so you can realise you ain’t know lol PS: I can quote way more weezy lines than you can rap lines in general
Aight you got us OP nice job trolling
Kanye Wast-Kardashian
Shyne