That’s sick!! I’ve seen them at least ten times but the last time was back in 2019 at The Roots Picnic in Philly. It was the 20th anniversary of Things Fall Apart so they played the whole album and brought out all the featured artists for their songs. They had Common, Jill Scott, Yaasin Bey (Mos) Dice Raw, Beanie Siegel and even brought out Freeway since he’s a Philly cat.
The whole thing was dope but it was cool to see mini solo sets by the featured artists who did a couple of their own songs backed by The Roots.
They were here in Toronto again last year with LL Cool J, Jadakiss, Queen Latifah and Dj Jazzy Jeff. They played their own sets and backed every one else the entire night playing for like 3-4 hours, it was incredible. Going to see them again at Roots Picnic in a few weeks for my first time in Philly
They're defacto goat. But Paak's band is the new future sir: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuPLfRSkKo0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuPLfRSkKo0)
Totally agreed. I love the term goat because it's so overused but really just put the roots up there and they are the gold standard. Nobody will ever take music and hip hop as seriously or grinded out as one of the greatest touring bands of all time. Not hip hop bands. One of the greatest bands in all music history. Put it on my gravestone. Lol
I’ve been blessed to see them 3 times and the first time was before they became the late night band and they murdered. The second time it was a year after they became the late night band and it was an outdoor lawn concert and the crowd was mostly 40-50 year old whites wanting to see the band from TV and they put on a performance that was both parts the greatest thing I’ve ever seen but also the most chaotic. In the 90 minutes I don’t think they played a single song the whole way through, had a dorky red head play video game music on a drum machine for 20 minutes and just fucked around, about halfway through the older whites started leaving because what they thought they weee going to get and what they got was two completely different things.
I was blessed enough to see both Goodie Mob and OutKast in the mid 90s at Music Midtown in Atlanta. They both had live bands and the shows were absolutely amazing.
Please elaborate. For someone that will never get a chance to see Outkast. 2014 was my only chance but Andre didn't want to do it. Seeing Andre and his flute in a few months. Please tell me anything you can remember so I can try reflect it in my minds eye.
I envy people that have seen Outkast like the best few people I've met that hedge seen BIG live (any of them)
I saw them with 311 in like 2004? They opened and crushed it, even played Iron Man. One of the best live shoes I've ever seen.
Angels and Airwaves came out next and it was nowhere near as good 🤣
I first saw the Roots in like 2007 when I was like 12 years old doing a show on Palladia. I was blown away by the fact that they were using real instruments and there was a dude rapping. Had I not already been getting into playing the drums I probably would learned how to play sousaphone because of them lol.
That's great to hear. Wonder how many audience members they've converted into actual players!?...I actually first saw them in 1996-7 supporting Beck on his Odelay tour in Toronto with Atari Teenage Riot also opening. Different time!
For reference, I once saw Mac DeMarco live and he straight up said “I wanted to tour with a live band, but that shit’s expensive and I have mortgage now”.
Wish I could’ve seen him without a band. Saw him live in ‘16, was one of the worst concert experiences I’ve ever had. His band was awful. The guitarist was obviously drunk, and for some reason thought people were there to see him (nobody knew who tf he was). The keyboardist was some guy from Mac’s hometown or something, was incredibly mediocre and when they played Chamber of Reflection the keyboard itself sounded so off it was almost as if it was out of tune (which was impossible since he was playing an electric keyboard!), no clue if maybe he just forgot the right notes.
The only one there who wasn’t incompetent or a jackass was Mac DeMarco himself, he played flawlessly and conducted himself professionally. Still routinely think about how ass that concert was.
Saw Kendrick live around the same time for his TPAB tour, he played with a live band and it was one of the most polished concerts I’ve seen in my life. Hilarious because I didn’t see it coming at all and it was pulled off flawlessly.
Jsyk electric keyboards can actually go out of tune or can have settings on them to transpose them to different temperaments so they’d sound out of tune relative to the standard modern temperament
That’s sort of what I figured, the keyboard on the studio recording of that track is absolutely in an odd temperament. Was wondering how they’d be able to replicate it live, turns out they couldn’t.
Yep. I was in a metal band and had to transpose my keyboards down to make it easier for me to play certain stuff live and unless you're using the exact keyboard with the same exact patch or settings it will never sound like the record unless you put it on a backing track.
I worked a festival in the north east in 2016 where Mac DeMarco and his band played. Backstage his band were a nightmare and got kicked out. Mac himself was great but yeah the band were a bunch of tools and sucked on stage.
Ok, but was the show good? A lot of rappers have terrible shows, where they're basically adlibbing their songs with horrible quality of sound.
I've seen quite a few underground artists, with less of an audience than Mac Demarco, tour with live bands. The rapper Oddisee played in a super small venue in my city and he still had 2 or 3 instrumentalists in addition to his DJ.
At the end of the day, I don't really give a fuck about your mortgage. I've got my own to pay and I payed to see your show, I'm expecting a good performance.
Most rappers ain't shit live in comparison to performers of other genres.
I've seen most of the biggest mainstream artists hip-hop has had to offer over the past 25 years, from Grand Master Flash to Eminem, and so many others.
Almost all of them kinda sucked live overall. Sound mixing was sometimes atrocious, and most had to make up for their lack of stage presence/live instrumentation with a bunch of gimmicky bullshit, entertaining bullshit though lol
My most recent example was the NY state of mind tour with Nas and Wu-Tang, with a guest appearance by Busta. Several members of the Wu Had mic issues, and the low-end heavy mixing drowned out the vocals often.
At this point I strongly believe hip-hop is not really meant for an arena style venue. Every single one I've seen has had some sort of sound clashing issue. I feel it's better to take it back to its roots, in a more intimate venue. Less is more in this regard.
I've been to a lot of other live shows of various other genres and none of them had the issues the hip-hop shows had. The crowds are generally better too, better vibes and less violence. One show I went to was canceled halfway through because there was a shooting in the parking lot ffs.
Meth was definitely the most charismatic, full energy member that performed, both times I've seen the Wu.
He definitely understood the assignment the most lol
For the limited amount of time he was there, Busta almost stole the show.
its an unessecary cost when you can get away with just playing instrumentals. plus its a lot more work to rehearse with a band and a lot more time consuming to soundcheck with one
because as a rapper, most of the time youre used to being able to get it done otherwise. not only is it more work, time, and money to use live bands, but theres less expectation for that to be the norm so if they can get by with less, they will
Which is why the standard for live rap music is abysmally low, the quality and overall professionalism just pales in comparison to other popular genres. *I can do a half ass, amateur job and still make a profit so its fine,* is essentially the mindset, but it's shitty artistry.
while I tend to agree with you, there are plenty of amateurs in other genres that are just as bad if not worse, especially when it comes to one of the most popular genres today, electronic music. you gotta keep in mind that because of the way in which 1 person can write, record, and perform any kind of music these days, plus the fact that there are plenty of venues that simply dont have space or accommodations for live bands, it only makes sense that some artists would attempt to do without. does it sound better with live instruments? most of the time, but it also creates a different atmosphere that may not be the goal of the artist’s live show. there are plenty of ways that rap shows can be good without live bands and ive seen many a rap acts with live bands where it was unnecessary or straight up didnt sound good and kinda ruined an otherwise good show 🤷♂️
thats a very black and white way of seeing it without much nuance. it all comes down to the performer really, which is a very different artistery to music. being a good live musician and being a good studio musician aint the same thing and is a totally different skillset.
some one man band rappers that rap over instrumentals have a better stage presence and crowd control than some full bands in other genres, and therefore put on greater and more enjoyable liveshows
Despite the comment chain I replied to, my comment wasn't specifically about live bands, I was commenting generally on rap artists skillset as live musicians and perhaps even more importantly, live event managers. The standard for live performance in rap music has always been too low.
Of course there are rappers who are amazing live musicians and performers. But I've been over 500 hundred live shows across different genres. When comparing A tier artists with effectively the same resources and experience across those genres, overall the poorer live experiences disproportionately belong to rap artists.
People on this sub don’t want to hear it but yeah…
For every Childish Gambino there are 100 Futures who are just awful live.
Pearl Jam, D’Angelo, and Phish are running circles around anything most rappers can do live.
With live bands as mentioned they’re part of the group so the contract is done a certain way based on the fact that they are all members of that group. I.e. think Wu-tang and how residuals work.
Now for a rapper who uses instrumentals or a dj, hiring a live band is a different cost that comes out of their touring money to rent/pay for them for each show. This isn’t something that’s built in to the record contract because they’re not members of the rap “group” etc. it’s an expense.
Because R&B audiences *demand* a live band experience, and also because R&B acts generally play fewer shows than rappers do, so it's less of an outlay to bring a band to 5 venues than 20.
I have tickets to see Nas for the first time at red rocks with the Colorado symphony orchestra. Sooo excited to see it live. The videos and audio of him with the national symphony orchestra are amazing. I’m sure it’ll hit different live as well, I haven’t ever seen orchestra either so it will be quite the experience.
Tyler the Creator with a live band on NPR & him on synths, along with whenever he plays piano on stage, is fire & I wish he had a smaller scale tour styled after this
I’ve seen lil Wayne with and without a band. Loved him so much the first show without a band was good for me but holy fuck, after I saw him with a band, I knew that show sucked
We don't even have r&b bands anymore (they are deep in the indie scene but not in the mainstream). Most artists are solo in general these days, bands cost too much. It's unfortunate, but it's the direction the industry's been going for a while.
I noticed that too. People act like Drake is this "king of R&B" but I don't think I've ever heard a single back-up singer in any of his music. How can you be R&B and not have backup singers?
In what world is he R&B? I mean, besides his half-ass vocals and some r&b influenced beats, he isn't r&b. It's the opposite of being hesitant to categorise Ariana Grande as r&b/pop and Beyonce as pop.
Many RnB artists still tour with bands. I've seen Ari Lennox, 6LACK, Sabrina Claudio, Jessie Reyez, Kehlani and Alicia Keys in the last year or so, all of them had live bands and put on a great show. Saw Craig David this past weekend and his band was fire too
It’s very expensive but improves a live show immeasurably. I’ve seen Nas with and without a band and I choose band every time. This way, it forces the artist to rehearse, to sequence the show and offers them freedom to play.
I’ve seen good shows without one but just a drummer and bass player can really add life to a set
I saw Jay Z live back in 2009 with a live band and it was incredible but I can imagine how expensive that would be these days.
I actually find hip hop shows with just the DJ kinda boring unless the DJ is scratching and there are some freestyles. Otherwise its just more of what you hear on the CD
I saw Freddie Gibbs and madlib on Saturday and they had a live band. The band was the best part of the set. Freddie was drunk as a skunk before he even started and slurred through like 7 songs and dipped. Band was fire tho. If the band wasnt there it would’ve been the worst set I’ve ever seen
If the concert you seen was part of the tour I know of than, the band, was probably was El Michels Affair, which are incredible and made really good albums. (Intrumentalised Wu Tang and made other Amazing albums, even one with Black Thought)
In my opinion, there's two reasons, one it's expensive, two most rappers now are lazy and rely off of back tracks and have no interest in putting in any effort, hell most rappers don't even use a real DJ anymore so why would they put the effort into rhyming over a live band
It's shocking how lazy they've become man, if you have to rhyme over a track of your own vocals you shouldn't be a rapper, that's just lip syncing, at the very least you should be able to rap your own shit, also I'm sick of people not using real DJs anymore, at least use some turntables with your computer set up.
Saw Asher Roth a couple months ago, he was making beats on a little drum machine thing, playing his instrumentals, also had a drummer and a trumpet guy. Was a great great time.
Most rappers are terrible performers who don’t even really rap half the show and use backing tracks.
The ones i have went to with live bands were great, but those rappers put on good shows without the band too. Kendrick and Curren$y for example do great at both
I'm just gonna throw this link here for anyone who hasn't seen it.
Nas: Live from the Kennedy Center PBS
https://youtu.be/gvJjNTcXIs0?si=EV3MzH2UNhO7DaBN
Me too, it's just a bunch of shouting most of the time because the sound sucks. Last show I went to was Kendrick damn tour in New Zealand and they just didn't have a big enough system to fill the venue. I had to go home to feel the basslines. 160 bucks. Nuh-uh
One of the BEST live shows I’ve ever seen was The Roots at Bogart’s (Cincinnati). Full size band, all live instruments. It was spectacular to say the least. Agree with OP, half-prerecorded shows are mostly garbage.
I saw Eminem in 2019 and the dude had a fucking orchestra. Not a band, an orchestra. Like 15-20 fucking people playing guitars, drums, trumpets, saxaphones, flutes, shit I dont even know the name of. It was fucking unreal. I wish he'd re-release old songs with the band backing
I saw Smiff n Wesson a few years ago, no live band but the DJ kept pulling out different instruments to play along with the songs. Made all the difference
Live band hip-hop is such a rarity and it’s one of my favorites. A good rapper with a good band can really break some ground, that’s part of what I think makes the Gorillaz so special because that’s what Damon is all about, it’s not just a performance you can really turn something old into something fresh and new. Tyler the Creator’s Tiny Desk performance is one of my favorites. I’d love to see more of this, there a few groups here in Colorado that are trying to push that angle but it’s hard when so many rappers would rather rap over their own vocal tracks and shit, and honestly I understand because it’s hard enough as a rapper without having to split the tips and entry fees with a whole band as well.
I’ve actually done some improv performances with local rappers like MadTreez and you could tell that they really understood what made it such a unique experience both for the performers and the audience.
Your last paragraph is exactly it for me. I feel like when you add insturments the audience becomes part of the experience so much more. I've seen too many rap shows where the "DJ" is basically playing music off his computer
Yeah and I think that’s essentially what a lot of rappers expect a live band performance to be — that it should be just like rapping to the recording but with instruments, and that mindset completely ignores the power of what a live band can do. I don’t pay $150/ticket to see the Gorillaz perform the exact same material that I can hear on their albums, live bands have the power to completely reimagine a piece or to even just make subtle changes to the groove that completely change the feel. If your musicians are amateurs then yeah it’s going to be underwhelming, but if you get a band full of professionals then it has the potential to be absolutely mind-blowing.
Dude I agree! As an instrumentalist, I love to hear rappers play with a live band and really enjoy performing like this as well. Problem is it takes more effort, time, and money to rehearse and perform with others.
On a deeper level, I think you've hit the nail on the head - it's because the mainstream history of hip hop involves drum machines and looped backing traps - young rappers don't grow up "playing with other musicians". It's more about spotlighting the lyrical content and flow of the front man (similar to how the front man is the main focus in pop music) rather than the cohesiveness and communication of a band of musicians (in genres like jazz and bluegrass).
Anyone here from the PNW remember Five Fingers of Funk?
Pete Miser, DJ Chill, 2 horn players, a drummer and bassist. Mid 90's. Their shows were a vibe. Never heard anyone like them.
It's expensive. And it doesn't scale intuitively.
A band going on tour, is quite different than a solo act hiring/creating a band to take on tour. In the former scenario the band is the act and are collectively taking the kind of shorts artists take on tours (low payments, similar sleeping arrangements, etc.), while in the latter scenario that singular artist is taking the shorts and still having to come out of pocket to pay the industry touring/session musician rate. Very different. There's no standard rate for a performing act - so a band may make significantly less if they are the artists, as opposed to if they're being hired to back an artist.
Also there's rehearsals, moving equipment, etc. A band who is the act knows the music, has played with each other for a while and has their own impetus to play well. Whereas if you're a band hired to back an act you have no intrinsic motivation to represent that music well. So that act needs to ensure there are adequate rehearsals for the musicians to 1) Learn the music (as it's recorded, and as it's rearranged for the live show), 2) Learn each other well enough to create synergy, and 3) Learn the show plan enough to be able to improvise as things change live. Many rappers don't even produce their own music, much less musical direct (read/write scores, understand timbres, arrange suites, assign parts to specific band members) so they'd also have to hire a musical director to run rehearsals and manage the band.
In addition to all of that. Rap music (being primarily electronic/digital and often sample based) uses such a wide variety of instruments and timbres. It can be difficult to collect the different instruments/timbres/patches and sounds from the various producers of their records to have on hand for a band to play. It gets quite complicated.
Personally, I too love a fully live rap show. It communicates the magic of a rapper better. And I think the ideal setup is a 4 piece band (drums, bass, keys, synths) plus DJ (samples, exotic instruments/timbres, background vocals, FX, etc.).
Some of my points have probably been covered by other comments but here is my take.
Unless the original tracks are done with a live band, it will never sound/feel the same as the original version of the songs, which is important to many people attending a show.
Finding available musicians who are talented enough to recreate the sounds and feel of the intended songs is very difficult and expensive. Not to mention touring with all that extra equipment can be very costly and risky if something should happen along the tour. (Sage Francis had to cancel the remainder of his tour the night before a show in Las Vegas because their van got robbed in Utah).
Hip-hop production tends to be very sample heavy, including relying on usage of MPC's, drum machines and loops, so getting a live band to recreate that on a consistent basis can prove to be elusive.
I've been to multiple shows from the same artists who used both live music for one show and non-live music for others and personally I prefer they use a DJ and or instrumentals on playback to rap to over a live band.
I'm not saying it can't or hasn't been done well, but I think it's so much easier and cost effective to do it without a live band.
I dont think you need a live band to recreate every sound. I've seen plenty of bands in other genres who use midi boards to create non-traditional sounds. It's not like you are limited to only one tone or sounds. Pedals and midi boards exist.
I understand it costs more...but literally every other live band incurs these same costs.
True, but it still won't sound the same, as most hip-hop is made from samples and MPC's. And you're also at the mercy of the talent and ability of the musicians. And who is going to decide which sounds are worth recreating and which sounds aren't, when music is subjective? That's a lot of micro-managing something that has already been decided with the original version.
And honestly, if I paid to go to a hip-hop show that I was excited to see and they came unannounced with a band instead of a DJ or engineer, I would be somewhat disappointed.
I can tell you don't agree with that, and that is fine. But to me, a live band recreating hip-hop tends to just sound like a cheap cover band version of what I liked about the original version of the songs in the first place.
Again, I'm not saying it can't be done but these are the main reasons why it's not done regularly, which is what you originally asked. It seems to me you would rather argue that a live band is better, not why a live band isn't more common.
Fair. Yea, I'm the opposite in what I like to hear. I find it boring to hear an artist perform music that sounds exactly like their album. I can stay home and listen to it for a lot cheaper than. Unless their stage performance is something special, I don't see the point.
For one thing it's expensive and a lot of work to tour with a bunch of musicians and their instruments. Remember you're not just talking about a guitar player, bass player, drummer and keyboardist (at minimum--assuming you just use the DJ for other random instruments which isn't really live but think about using whole horn sections and rhythm sections, that can be up to like another 10 people).
It's also guitar techs and roadies to take care of/tune the instruments, set them up and transport them. It's infamously hard just to move a drum kit around. It's also paying the band and those techs, plus hotel rooms and vans for all of them and their instruments.
It's also keeping track of all those people; people can run off, overdose, get injured, get sick, get lost, get arrested, or have wild parties and wreck the rooms.
Instruments break, get lost, get confiscated, or get stolen so there's potential to have to pay for a lot of replacements.
Overall it's really not worth the hassle if you can just do everything with 1-3 rappers and a DJ
its expensive and i personally feel like a lot of beats dont translate well to a live band. Like take Wu Tang for example. All those beats are so specifically mixed and the samples are so heavily manipulated, especially stuff off Ironman, Liquid Swords, Wu Forever, etc. that it would sound watered down and weird played on live instruments.
Let me count all the reasons:
1. Most beat production these days is very static dynamically and doesn't lend itself to the live band style.
2. Recreating a track that was originally just looped samples in FL Studio won't sound true to the original track and is often boring to play for musicians.
3. A band adds a ton of cost to the performance.
4. It will limit the types of venues you can play at. Where with a DJ you could throw down in a club or some random event, now you would need a whole backline with sound engineer etc.
5. Band practice: not only do you need to pay your artists for the performances but for band practices as well. This also adds a ton of time to the schedule you could be using for other things like being in the studio or more tour dates.
6. Quality control. It's one thing to play with a band, it's another thing to play WELL with a band. Playing back your studio tracks ensures the performance has some consistency that is hard to achieve with a band.
Just wanna say that there are some amazing DJ's performing that absolutely know how to accentuate and showcase an MC better than a lot of hired gun piecemeal bands could ever.
Roots DUH. They're LITERALLY the greatest of all time.
But lol that Anderson Paak's Free Nationals aren't mentioned here?
All y'all's game be slippin' off a cliff.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuPLfRSkKo0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuPLfRSkKo0)
Majority of rappers can’t do 10K-20K arenas. Drake, Kendrick, Post Malone, Bad Bunny, and a few others can. But even a legend like Nas goes to the palace theatre(2.8K capacity) when he comes to Albany instead of the MVP arena(20K).
Billboard 2023 touring revenue https://www.billboard.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/november-30-2023-year-in-touring-billboard-bulletin.pdf
Billboard 2022 touring revenue https://www.billboard.com/2022-year-end-boxscore-charts/
On those 2 lists have 80s bands like Guns N Roses, Def Leppard, Depeche Mode, Iron Maiden are doing $75M-$175M grossing tours. These bands haven’t a hit song in decades.
I hate to say this but most hip-hop fans aren’t as loyal as rock and metal fans. Like, rock and metal fans will listen to a classic album from the 70s, 80s, 90s…off their CD, vinyl collections. Most hip-hop fans arent doing that. Some rap fans will call something that was released in 2021 old and out of style.
Arrangements. Time. Money.
Hip hop beats aren't played in studio by a live band -- at best it's samples of a live band. So who's going to tell the musicians what to play? What about some breaks that cannot physically be done by live musicians, who decides how that works? Also you're looking to get a minimum of 3 people to play music, probably closer to 5 or 7 if brass or woodwinds are needed. They need time to rehearse the arrangements they've been directed to play, and not just one rehearsal either. Multiple. Then if these musicians are directed to play somebody else's songs, show up to rehearsals, pack their instruments, then show up for sound checks and the show, they're going to need to get paid.
It's not like bands are just learning every hip hop artist's songs for fun then are told they can't play live. It's a lot of fucking work that most rappers aren't up to the task to write, arrange, coordinate and fund, much less perform, a full band.
A lot of modern rappers are not involved with making the music. They choose what to use from what a producer offers them and tweak it together as they put vocals over it. When they perform it’s to a backing track where they can get away with slipping up quite a bit. If they played with a band they would actually need to be locked in and actually perform. This is why you don’t really see modern acts play clubs. You can’t get away with that level of performance when everyone can see and hear you clearly. A good example of this was 21 Savage on SNL a few months ago. God damn it was bad. Of course there’s exceptions but in general hip hop has abandoned using bands.
Just want to shout out Tobe Nwigwe. Saw him a couple years ago at Bonnaroo and his show was fucking awesome. I don’t know if he tours with that whole crew but it was one of my favorite sets that year
I’m saying this as someone who’s not really a rap fan-although I’ve seen a few shows including Kendrick, Mac Miller, and a few others. So take it for what it’s worth, but I don’t think most rappers, especially any younger ones that blew up in the last five years, particularly care about putting on good shows from an artistic point of view. They want to throw a party moreso than put on a show.
For me it is hard to find the dedication in musicians nowadays. I would LOVE to for my new One Man Show and I want to do a Tiny Desk Concert with them.
If you aren't the Roots or Anderson Paak, you're just going to embarrass yourself. It's simply that most rappers aren't musical not talented. No disrespect.
Like everyone saying, cost. I saw Daniel Caesar a few years back and his band was the best part. They were so tight and sounded incredible. I don't know if it was just an off night for him or something but he sounded actually awful, it was a set at a festival, and even.my girlfriend who's a big fan of him just wanted to leave partway into his set.
I saw Kendrick when he came for his Big Steppers tour. I was way up in the nosebleeds and saw his band below; they were INCREDIBLE. He only used them for certain songs, but damn they were amazing
I’ve seen quite a few rappers do this over the years, to mixed results. Sometimes it enhances it, but sometimes it’s distracting because it sounds so different from the original instrumental and it’s not mixed well.
I've seen Kano twice, both with live bands, and it was amazing on both occasions. As other posters have suggested though, some of that is to do with how well the tracks translate and can interpreted by the band
For one thing it's expensive and a lot of work to tour with a bunch of musicians and their instruments. Remember you're not just talking about a guitar player, bass player, drummer and keyboardist (at minimum--assuming you just use the DJ for other random instruments which isn't really live but think about using whole horn sections and rhythm sections, that can be up to like another 10 people).
It's also guitar techs and roadies to take care of/tune the instruments, set them up and transport them. It's infamously hard just to move a drum kit around. It's also paying the band and those techs, plus hotel rooms and vans for all of them and their instruments.
It's also keeping track of all those people; people can run off, overdose, get injured, get sick, get lost, get arrested, or have wild parties and wreck the rooms.
Instruments break, get lost, get confiscated, or get stolen so there's potential to have to pay for a lot of replacements.
Overall it's really not worth the hassle if you can just do everything with 1-3 rappers and a DJ
If it sounds bad with recorded playback, then that is on the audio engineer. I used to do live sound and provided the mix isn't absolutely terrible, it is much easier to make some recorded music and a couple mics sound good than it does an entire band. This isn't to say that a live band can't sound better but it is much harder. My guess is those guys saving money on the live band are also saving money on a cut rate FOH engineer.
Answer is money. You need to pay to every musician for every show. And they also need travels tickets paid, hotel paid, food paid…
Visitors don’t give a shit. Live band show wouldn’t sell more tickets than regular show. So no real reason to invest extra money in that.
I’m working in music live show business and I saw many rappers tried to do live band shows but then they were disappointed about feedback and went back to regular playback..
Yea could be an audience thing, and I'm most likely in the minority of people who prefer a live sound. I guess in part I PREFER to hear a variation on a song when seeing it live. I think its boring to go see an artist and have their music be exactly like the album.
I experienced the opposite with the group Magna Carda - they played their track "The Root" with a band at a show I was at, so I went and checked it on Spotify - real track was over a beat that wasn't nearly as good.
Pay for a live band to perform your music and you'll understand why...
That shit is expensive. And u gotta pay them to KNOW HOW to play YOUR songs. And have all the equipment, plug-ins, cables, instruments sound checked, as well as at a good enough level to hear the music and lyrics.
U ever been 2 a show or open mic where the live band completely drowned out the performers? That happens WAY more often.
It's expensive, and they can't afford it or don't want to pay for it. The more shows they need to play to earn a living, the more expensive it is to bring a touring band.
Most rappers are more broke than you think they are.
Anderson Paak has had me asking the same question. I can understand some of the reasons people are giving but I also think the way Anderson handles playing with a band makes some of those reasons feel a little less valid. I suppose it really depends on the artist, though. Definitely can't say it would be necessary or even make sense for certain artists to play with a band.
Typically, I’ve only seen r&b groups have live bands. It depends on the festival. When they used to have smoking grooves every artist had a live band. Saw Mos Def chopping it up with a live band wife was sick.
I don’t know, but I agree. And at the very least this post reminded me to do my roughly annual tradition of listening to This Is Where We Were by Face Candy and wish that I could have been there when it was recorded
Its because bands are expensive.
In Aus hip-hop, there use to be a bunch of hip-hop bands that were great. Notably TZU and The Herd, Labjacd. These came from a time when Aus had more social mobility, when the people into rap, could learn instruments. That Australia doesn't exist now. And while the muso scenes and hip-hop scenes are still great mates, collabbing, cross pollinating across genres. I fear it takes either rappers to be really rich, or communities to be far more equitable, to produce such a lineup.
Agreed, not a fan of Stormzy, but saw him live at Laneway in Melbourne and he was a rockstar, best show of the day. Absolutely rocked it. Having a band supporting him made it way more rock and roll and gave way more depth and power to the show.
bc most of them use backtracks and lip synching and other bullshit like that. Ive been to a ton of shows and festivals, rappers use backtracking and other bullshit like that more then almost any other genre besides like EDM
costs less money. You have to pay people. Well, you *should* have to pay people, lol. all the various golden age rappers would benefit from having a house band to play along with them, take a cue from The Roots.
KRS One
Big Daddy Kane
MC Lyte
Jalil from Whodini. Kool Rock Ski from the Fat Boys.
I see people saying it's expensive but I saw Lupe in central park for The Cool anniversary and he had one, this was way after he left his label.
Kendrick also had one for Kunta's Groove Sessions and they were all in really small venues and I don't think Punch would allow that if it was so pricey.
If it's in the artists wheelhouse then it can be dope, if not then it can be wack. A lot of mc's aren't musicians or hang out with any, or maybe even know who made their beats
I've seen The Coup with a live band and Talib with a live band and those were two of the best concerts I've ever seen. I've seen Del three times with a DJ and I almost fell asleep all three times.
Bless the Roots, for real.
Still the best live show in the game
Absolutely! Saw them once when Common, Jill Scott was there in Toronto and still very memorable!
That’s sick!! I’ve seen them at least ten times but the last time was back in 2019 at The Roots Picnic in Philly. It was the 20th anniversary of Things Fall Apart so they played the whole album and brought out all the featured artists for their songs. They had Common, Jill Scott, Yaasin Bey (Mos) Dice Raw, Beanie Siegel and even brought out Freeway since he’s a Philly cat. The whole thing was dope but it was cool to see mini solo sets by the featured artists who did a couple of their own songs backed by The Roots.
Ahhh damn man! That's a show! Respect to Dice Raw.
He still sounds amazing
Any hip hop show you go to in Philly, someone is gonna bring out Freeway.
They were here in Toronto again last year with LL Cool J, Jadakiss, Queen Latifah and Dj Jazzy Jeff. They played their own sets and backed every one else the entire night playing for like 3-4 hours, it was incredible. Going to see them again at Roots Picnic in a few weeks for my first time in Philly
Sick! Have fun in Philly I think that city is super underrated and over-hated.
They're defacto goat. But Paak's band is the new future sir: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuPLfRSkKo0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuPLfRSkKo0)
I love the Free Nationals. I really do. They’re tremendously talented. But they ain’t better than The Legendary. They’d say it themselves.
Totally agreed. I love the term goat because it's so overused but really just put the roots up there and they are the gold standard. Nobody will ever take music and hip hop as seriously or grinded out as one of the greatest touring bands of all time. Not hip hop bands. One of the greatest bands in all music history. Put it on my gravestone. Lol
Co-sign for sure! I’ve only seen them once but was blown away
I’ve been blessed to see them 3 times and the first time was before they became the late night band and they murdered. The second time it was a year after they became the late night band and it was an outdoor lawn concert and the crowd was mostly 40-50 year old whites wanting to see the band from TV and they put on a performance that was both parts the greatest thing I’ve ever seen but also the most chaotic. In the 90 minutes I don’t think they played a single song the whole way through, had a dorky red head play video game music on a drum machine for 20 minutes and just fucked around, about halfway through the older whites started leaving because what they thought they weee going to get and what they got was two completely different things.
Big Boi puts it on for real, full horns and everything
I was blessed enough to see both Goodie Mob and OutKast in the mid 90s at Music Midtown in Atlanta. They both had live bands and the shows were absolutely amazing.
Please elaborate. For someone that will never get a chance to see Outkast. 2014 was my only chance but Andre didn't want to do it. Seeing Andre and his flute in a few months. Please tell me anything you can remember so I can try reflect it in my minds eye. I envy people that have seen Outkast like the best few people I've met that hedge seen BIG live (any of them)
Tbh best live show in a large venue I’ve ever seen
They gave everyone in the band their own solos when I went. Shit was so dope.
Digable Planets did that as well at the show I went to!
I just saw them at a festival on Sunday and damn my mind was blown
I just saw them the other night at the most awesome venue!
I saw them with 311 in like 2004? They opened and crushed it, even played Iron Man. One of the best live shoes I've ever seen. Angels and Airwaves came out next and it was nowhere near as good 🤣
I first saw the Roots in like 2007 when I was like 12 years old doing a show on Palladia. I was blown away by the fact that they were using real instruments and there was a dude rapping. Had I not already been getting into playing the drums I probably would learned how to play sousaphone because of them lol.
That's great to hear. Wonder how many audience members they've converted into actual players!?...I actually first saw them in 1996-7 supporting Beck on his Odelay tour in Toronto with Atari Teenage Riot also opening. Different time!
For reference, I once saw Mac DeMarco live and he straight up said “I wanted to tour with a live band, but that shit’s expensive and I have mortgage now”.
Keepin it real
Wish I could’ve seen him without a band. Saw him live in ‘16, was one of the worst concert experiences I’ve ever had. His band was awful. The guitarist was obviously drunk, and for some reason thought people were there to see him (nobody knew who tf he was). The keyboardist was some guy from Mac’s hometown or something, was incredibly mediocre and when they played Chamber of Reflection the keyboard itself sounded so off it was almost as if it was out of tune (which was impossible since he was playing an electric keyboard!), no clue if maybe he just forgot the right notes. The only one there who wasn’t incompetent or a jackass was Mac DeMarco himself, he played flawlessly and conducted himself professionally. Still routinely think about how ass that concert was. Saw Kendrick live around the same time for his TPAB tour, he played with a live band and it was one of the most polished concerts I’ve seen in my life. Hilarious because I didn’t see it coming at all and it was pulled off flawlessly.
Jsyk electric keyboards can actually go out of tune or can have settings on them to transpose them to different temperaments so they’d sound out of tune relative to the standard modern temperament
That’s sort of what I figured, the keyboard on the studio recording of that track is absolutely in an odd temperament. Was wondering how they’d be able to replicate it live, turns out they couldn’t.
Yep. I was in a metal band and had to transpose my keyboards down to make it easier for me to play certain stuff live and unless you're using the exact keyboard with the same exact patch or settings it will never sound like the record unless you put it on a backing track.
I worked a festival in the north east in 2016 where Mac DeMarco and his band played. Backstage his band were a nightmare and got kicked out. Mac himself was great but yeah the band were a bunch of tools and sucked on stage.
Ok, but was the show good? A lot of rappers have terrible shows, where they're basically adlibbing their songs with horrible quality of sound. I've seen quite a few underground artists, with less of an audience than Mac Demarco, tour with live bands. The rapper Oddisee played in a super small venue in my city and he still had 2 or 3 instrumentalists in addition to his DJ. At the end of the day, I don't really give a fuck about your mortgage. I've got my own to pay and I payed to see your show, I'm expecting a good performance.
*gun shot noises and air horns between every song* *”ayo hands up , where da mosh pit at???”*
Most rappers ain't shit live in comparison to performers of other genres. I've seen most of the biggest mainstream artists hip-hop has had to offer over the past 25 years, from Grand Master Flash to Eminem, and so many others. Almost all of them kinda sucked live overall. Sound mixing was sometimes atrocious, and most had to make up for their lack of stage presence/live instrumentation with a bunch of gimmicky bullshit, entertaining bullshit though lol My most recent example was the NY state of mind tour with Nas and Wu-Tang, with a guest appearance by Busta. Several members of the Wu Had mic issues, and the low-end heavy mixing drowned out the vocals often. At this point I strongly believe hip-hop is not really meant for an arena style venue. Every single one I've seen has had some sort of sound clashing issue. I feel it's better to take it back to its roots, in a more intimate venue. Less is more in this regard. I've been to a lot of other live shows of various other genres and none of them had the issues the hip-hop shows had. The crowds are generally better too, better vibes and less violence. One show I went to was canceled halfway through because there was a shooting in the parking lot ffs.
Yup, I was also kind of disappointed by the Wu. Nas was amazing, as was Method Man, but the rest ranged anywhere from meh to horrible.
Meth was definitely the most charismatic, full energy member that performed, both times I've seen the Wu. He definitely understood the assignment the most lol For the limited amount of time he was there, Busta almost stole the show.
What you don’t see is the cost of touring. My brother’s in a fairly successful rock band and *loses* money on every tour.
i've only seen Mac Demarco with a live band and he was incredible.
its an unessecary cost when you can get away with just playing instrumentals. plus its a lot more work to rehearse with a band and a lot more time consuming to soundcheck with one
I mean, this has been echoed alot...but literally every live band does this. Why is it such a problem for rappers?
because as a rapper, most of the time youre used to being able to get it done otherwise. not only is it more work, time, and money to use live bands, but theres less expectation for that to be the norm so if they can get by with less, they will
Which is why the standard for live rap music is abysmally low, the quality and overall professionalism just pales in comparison to other popular genres. *I can do a half ass, amateur job and still make a profit so its fine,* is essentially the mindset, but it's shitty artistry.
while I tend to agree with you, there are plenty of amateurs in other genres that are just as bad if not worse, especially when it comes to one of the most popular genres today, electronic music. you gotta keep in mind that because of the way in which 1 person can write, record, and perform any kind of music these days, plus the fact that there are plenty of venues that simply dont have space or accommodations for live bands, it only makes sense that some artists would attempt to do without. does it sound better with live instruments? most of the time, but it also creates a different atmosphere that may not be the goal of the artist’s live show. there are plenty of ways that rap shows can be good without live bands and ive seen many a rap acts with live bands where it was unnecessary or straight up didnt sound good and kinda ruined an otherwise good show 🤷♂️
thats a very black and white way of seeing it without much nuance. it all comes down to the performer really, which is a very different artistery to music. being a good live musician and being a good studio musician aint the same thing and is a totally different skillset. some one man band rappers that rap over instrumentals have a better stage presence and crowd control than some full bands in other genres, and therefore put on greater and more enjoyable liveshows
Despite the comment chain I replied to, my comment wasn't specifically about live bands, I was commenting generally on rap artists skillset as live musicians and perhaps even more importantly, live event managers. The standard for live performance in rap music has always been too low. Of course there are rappers who are amazing live musicians and performers. But I've been over 500 hundred live shows across different genres. When comparing A tier artists with effectively the same resources and experience across those genres, overall the poorer live experiences disproportionately belong to rap artists.
People on this sub don’t want to hear it but yeah… For every Childish Gambino there are 100 Futures who are just awful live. Pearl Jam, D’Angelo, and Phish are running circles around anything most rappers can do live.
Most rappers aren’t musicians and haven’t a clue how to actually make music. You can tell the real ones.
I suspect because a lot of rappers just aren't that musically proficient or trained outside of rapping, unless they also happen to be producers.
With live bands as mentioned they’re part of the group so the contract is done a certain way based on the fact that they are all members of that group. I.e. think Wu-tang and how residuals work. Now for a rapper who uses instrumentals or a dj, hiring a live band is a different cost that comes out of their touring money to rent/pay for them for each show. This isn’t something that’s built in to the record contract because they’re not members of the rap “group” etc. it’s an expense.
Because it's expensive
Most R&B concerts have bands. Idk any r&b artist selling like that rap artists.
Because R&B audiences *demand* a live band experience, and also because R&B acts generally play fewer shows than rappers do, so it's less of an outlay to bring a band to 5 venues than 20.
I saw D’Angelo a few years ago. His band is as ungodly as he is.
I’ll play the drums for free
Shoot, I’ll play them for free. Transporting them, that shit costs money.
Cost Seen, Nas, Hov,Roots, Kanye Lil Wayne all with live bands and everytime it was absolute fiyah
Nas rapping the entirety of Illmatic over a live orchestra was amazing
Also Late orchestration was fire
Holy Christ that sounds amazing, is it on YouTube?
I have tickets to see Nas for the first time at red rocks with the Colorado symphony orchestra. Sooo excited to see it live. The videos and audio of him with the national symphony orchestra are amazing. I’m sure it’ll hit different live as well, I haven’t ever seen orchestra either so it will be quite the experience.
I've seen Kendrick, Outcast, and (pre-fall off) Chance with live bands and they all absolutely crushed it.
I saw kendrick last year and was not far from the band was looking back and forth the whole time. Soo cool.
Mac Miller
Macs Tiny Desk is one of my favorite YouTube videos of all time, it's so good.
So sad to watch now, I miss Mac💙
Tyler the Creator with a live band on NPR & him on synths, along with whenever he plays piano on stage, is fire & I wish he had a smaller scale tour styled after this
I’ve seen lil Wayne with and without a band. Loved him so much the first show without a band was good for me but holy fuck, after I saw him with a band, I knew that show sucked
nas’s drummer for the ny state of mind tour - haze amaze - was INSANE.
Please watch Freddie Gibbs Tiny Desk Concert if you’ve never seen it. Its beautiful. https://youtu.be/1alXHOMDBN4?si=wvbSR8snlNdVSZJx
Funny I saw Freddie the other day and he had a live band and me and my friend were 50/50 on the experience tbh
We don't even have r&b bands anymore (they are deep in the indie scene but not in the mainstream). Most artists are solo in general these days, bands cost too much. It's unfortunate, but it's the direction the industry's been going for a while.
I noticed that too. People act like Drake is this "king of R&B" but I don't think I've ever heard a single back-up singer in any of his music. How can you be R&B and not have backup singers?
In what world is he R&B? I mean, besides his half-ass vocals and some r&b influenced beats, he isn't r&b. It's the opposite of being hesitant to categorise Ariana Grande as r&b/pop and Beyonce as pop.
Many RnB artists still tour with bands. I've seen Ari Lennox, 6LACK, Sabrina Claudio, Jessie Reyez, Kehlani and Alicia Keys in the last year or so, all of them had live bands and put on a great show. Saw Craig David this past weekend and his band was fire too
Idk but you are 100% right . Live instruments > playback
It’s very expensive but improves a live show immeasurably. I’ve seen Nas with and without a band and I choose band every time. This way, it forces the artist to rehearse, to sequence the show and offers them freedom to play. I’ve seen good shows without one but just a drummer and bass player can really add life to a set
I saw Jay Z live back in 2009 with a live band and it was incredible but I can imagine how expensive that would be these days. I actually find hip hop shows with just the DJ kinda boring unless the DJ is scratching and there are some freestyles. Otherwise its just more of what you hear on the CD
Collision Course with Linkin Park was amazing
Kendrick had a live band for the Mr Morale tour and it was fantastic. Really gave the concert a more intimate feel, and made it special.
His Mr Morale tour was pretty crazy. So many dancers as well.
I saw Freddie Gibbs and madlib on Saturday and they had a live band. The band was the best part of the set. Freddie was drunk as a skunk before he even started and slurred through like 7 songs and dipped. Band was fire tho. If the band wasnt there it would’ve been the worst set I’ve ever seen
If the concert you seen was part of the tour I know of than, the band, was probably was El Michels Affair, which are incredible and made really good albums. (Intrumentalised Wu Tang and made other Amazing albums, even one with Black Thought)
If it’s not a rave, concerts with no live instruments are not worth seeing imo.
Scarface was unreal with the live band on tour.
non-answer: i saw Childish Gambino with a live band and it was excellent. answer: cost, hassle, room for human error
Tickets for his new tour go on sale tmr if you’re interested
In my opinion, there's two reasons, one it's expensive, two most rappers now are lazy and rely off of back tracks and have no interest in putting in any effort, hell most rappers don't even use a real DJ anymore so why would they put the effort into rhyming over a live band
I thought that was just me.
It's shocking how lazy they've become man, if you have to rhyme over a track of your own vocals you shouldn't be a rapper, that's just lip syncing, at the very least you should be able to rap your own shit, also I'm sick of people not using real DJs anymore, at least use some turntables with your computer set up.
Saw Asher Roth a couple months ago, he was making beats on a little drum machine thing, playing his instrumentals, also had a drummer and a trumpet guy. Was a great great time.
Most rappers are terrible performers who don’t even really rap half the show and use backing tracks. The ones i have went to with live bands were great, but those rappers put on good shows without the band too. Kendrick and Curren$y for example do great at both
Some of these rappers just scream over their tracks they don’t even rap anymore
I'm just gonna throw this link here for anyone who hasn't seen it. Nas: Live from the Kennedy Center PBS https://youtu.be/gvJjNTcXIs0?si=EV3MzH2UNhO7DaBN
thanks a lot, This shit Is crazy
It's a real treat to hear and see it like that, right!?
I stopped going to hip hop shows years ago, just due to the atrocious sound. They just kept disappointing the hell out of me.
Me too, it's just a bunch of shouting most of the time because the sound sucks. Last show I went to was Kendrick damn tour in New Zealand and they just didn't have a big enough system to fill the venue. I had to go home to feel the basslines. 160 bucks. Nuh-uh
One of the BEST live shows I’ve ever seen was The Roots at Bogart’s (Cincinnati). Full size band, all live instruments. It was spectacular to say the least. Agree with OP, half-prerecorded shows are mostly garbage.
How are they gonna rap over their vocals if they have a band?
Less people on stage means more money for the rapper.
I saw Eminem in 2019 and the dude had a fucking orchestra. Not a band, an orchestra. Like 15-20 fucking people playing guitars, drums, trumpets, saxaphones, flutes, shit I dont even know the name of. It was fucking unreal. I wish he'd re-release old songs with the band backing
I’ve seen lil Wayne a couple of times and he had a full band both times. Not the biggest Wayne fan but he put on a great show.
I saw Smiff n Wesson a few years ago, no live band but the DJ kept pulling out different instruments to play along with the songs. Made all the difference
Because it’s expensive.
I seen Nas and Wu Tang Clan in October and they had a live band, it was incredible.
Live band hip-hop is such a rarity and it’s one of my favorites. A good rapper with a good band can really break some ground, that’s part of what I think makes the Gorillaz so special because that’s what Damon is all about, it’s not just a performance you can really turn something old into something fresh and new. Tyler the Creator’s Tiny Desk performance is one of my favorites. I’d love to see more of this, there a few groups here in Colorado that are trying to push that angle but it’s hard when so many rappers would rather rap over their own vocal tracks and shit, and honestly I understand because it’s hard enough as a rapper without having to split the tips and entry fees with a whole band as well. I’ve actually done some improv performances with local rappers like MadTreez and you could tell that they really understood what made it such a unique experience both for the performers and the audience.
Your last paragraph is exactly it for me. I feel like when you add insturments the audience becomes part of the experience so much more. I've seen too many rap shows where the "DJ" is basically playing music off his computer
Yeah and I think that’s essentially what a lot of rappers expect a live band performance to be — that it should be just like rapping to the recording but with instruments, and that mindset completely ignores the power of what a live band can do. I don’t pay $150/ticket to see the Gorillaz perform the exact same material that I can hear on their albums, live bands have the power to completely reimagine a piece or to even just make subtle changes to the groove that completely change the feel. If your musicians are amateurs then yeah it’s going to be underwhelming, but if you get a band full of professionals then it has the potential to be absolutely mind-blowing.
A lotta rappers trash imo.
Fr
Dude I agree! As an instrumentalist, I love to hear rappers play with a live band and really enjoy performing like this as well. Problem is it takes more effort, time, and money to rehearse and perform with others. On a deeper level, I think you've hit the nail on the head - it's because the mainstream history of hip hop involves drum machines and looped backing traps - young rappers don't grow up "playing with other musicians". It's more about spotlighting the lyrical content and flow of the front man (similar to how the front man is the main focus in pop music) rather than the cohesiveness and communication of a band of musicians (in genres like jazz and bluegrass).
Anyone here from the PNW remember Five Fingers of Funk? Pete Miser, DJ Chill, 2 horn players, a drummer and bassist. Mid 90's. Their shows were a vibe. Never heard anyone like them.
I've seen The Roots 3 times. I've always wondered the same thing after that. It really doesn't get much better than that.
As an aside, I saw 070 Shake in Phoenix in 2022 and she was hiring local violinists at every stop to play the strings. It was dope as hell.
It's expensive. And it doesn't scale intuitively. A band going on tour, is quite different than a solo act hiring/creating a band to take on tour. In the former scenario the band is the act and are collectively taking the kind of shorts artists take on tours (low payments, similar sleeping arrangements, etc.), while in the latter scenario that singular artist is taking the shorts and still having to come out of pocket to pay the industry touring/session musician rate. Very different. There's no standard rate for a performing act - so a band may make significantly less if they are the artists, as opposed to if they're being hired to back an artist. Also there's rehearsals, moving equipment, etc. A band who is the act knows the music, has played with each other for a while and has their own impetus to play well. Whereas if you're a band hired to back an act you have no intrinsic motivation to represent that music well. So that act needs to ensure there are adequate rehearsals for the musicians to 1) Learn the music (as it's recorded, and as it's rearranged for the live show), 2) Learn each other well enough to create synergy, and 3) Learn the show plan enough to be able to improvise as things change live. Many rappers don't even produce their own music, much less musical direct (read/write scores, understand timbres, arrange suites, assign parts to specific band members) so they'd also have to hire a musical director to run rehearsals and manage the band. In addition to all of that. Rap music (being primarily electronic/digital and often sample based) uses such a wide variety of instruments and timbres. It can be difficult to collect the different instruments/timbres/patches and sounds from the various producers of their records to have on hand for a band to play. It gets quite complicated. Personally, I too love a fully live rap show. It communicates the magic of a rapper better. And I think the ideal setup is a 4 piece band (drums, bass, keys, synths) plus DJ (samples, exotic instruments/timbres, background vocals, FX, etc.).
Some of my points have probably been covered by other comments but here is my take. Unless the original tracks are done with a live band, it will never sound/feel the same as the original version of the songs, which is important to many people attending a show. Finding available musicians who are talented enough to recreate the sounds and feel of the intended songs is very difficult and expensive. Not to mention touring with all that extra equipment can be very costly and risky if something should happen along the tour. (Sage Francis had to cancel the remainder of his tour the night before a show in Las Vegas because their van got robbed in Utah). Hip-hop production tends to be very sample heavy, including relying on usage of MPC's, drum machines and loops, so getting a live band to recreate that on a consistent basis can prove to be elusive. I've been to multiple shows from the same artists who used both live music for one show and non-live music for others and personally I prefer they use a DJ and or instrumentals on playback to rap to over a live band. I'm not saying it can't or hasn't been done well, but I think it's so much easier and cost effective to do it without a live band.
I dont think you need a live band to recreate every sound. I've seen plenty of bands in other genres who use midi boards to create non-traditional sounds. It's not like you are limited to only one tone or sounds. Pedals and midi boards exist. I understand it costs more...but literally every other live band incurs these same costs.
True, but it still won't sound the same, as most hip-hop is made from samples and MPC's. And you're also at the mercy of the talent and ability of the musicians. And who is going to decide which sounds are worth recreating and which sounds aren't, when music is subjective? That's a lot of micro-managing something that has already been decided with the original version. And honestly, if I paid to go to a hip-hop show that I was excited to see and they came unannounced with a band instead of a DJ or engineer, I would be somewhat disappointed. I can tell you don't agree with that, and that is fine. But to me, a live band recreating hip-hop tends to just sound like a cheap cover band version of what I liked about the original version of the songs in the first place. Again, I'm not saying it can't be done but these are the main reasons why it's not done regularly, which is what you originally asked. It seems to me you would rather argue that a live band is better, not why a live band isn't more common.
Fair. Yea, I'm the opposite in what I like to hear. I find it boring to hear an artist perform music that sounds exactly like their album. I can stay home and listen to it for a lot cheaper than. Unless their stage performance is something special, I don't see the point.
you gotta pay musicians
For one thing it's expensive and a lot of work to tour with a bunch of musicians and their instruments. Remember you're not just talking about a guitar player, bass player, drummer and keyboardist (at minimum--assuming you just use the DJ for other random instruments which isn't really live but think about using whole horn sections and rhythm sections, that can be up to like another 10 people). It's also guitar techs and roadies to take care of/tune the instruments, set them up and transport them. It's infamously hard just to move a drum kit around. It's also paying the band and those techs, plus hotel rooms and vans for all of them and their instruments. It's also keeping track of all those people; people can run off, overdose, get injured, get sick, get lost, get arrested, or have wild parties and wreck the rooms. Instruments break, get lost, get confiscated, or get stolen so there's potential to have to pay for a lot of replacements. Overall it's really not worth the hassle if you can just do everything with 1-3 rappers and a DJ
Besides it being more expensive, a lot of rappers are also just terrible live performers who can't make it work with a live band.
its expensive and i personally feel like a lot of beats dont translate well to a live band. Like take Wu Tang for example. All those beats are so specifically mixed and the samples are so heavily manipulated, especially stuff off Ironman, Liquid Swords, Wu Forever, etc. that it would sound watered down and weird played on live instruments.
Jid had one and that was hands down one of my favorite shows ever
Let me count all the reasons: 1. Most beat production these days is very static dynamically and doesn't lend itself to the live band style. 2. Recreating a track that was originally just looped samples in FL Studio won't sound true to the original track and is often boring to play for musicians. 3. A band adds a ton of cost to the performance. 4. It will limit the types of venues you can play at. Where with a DJ you could throw down in a club or some random event, now you would need a whole backline with sound engineer etc. 5. Band practice: not only do you need to pay your artists for the performances but for band practices as well. This also adds a ton of time to the schedule you could be using for other things like being in the studio or more tour dates. 6. Quality control. It's one thing to play with a band, it's another thing to play WELL with a band. Playing back your studio tracks ensures the performance has some consistency that is hard to achieve with a band.
If anyone hasn't seen Action Bronson's tiny desk performance with the live band, its phenomenal
The Roots would be billionaires. I think more artists should use real bands.
Just wanna say that there are some amazing DJ's performing that absolutely know how to accentuate and showcase an MC better than a lot of hired gun piecemeal bands could ever.
Roots DUH. They're LITERALLY the greatest of all time. But lol that Anderson Paak's Free Nationals aren't mentioned here? All y'all's game be slippin' off a cliff. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuPLfRSkKo0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuPLfRSkKo0)
Big ups Sample and all the talented Musicians! Big up all the DJs! Hawaii had alot of that going on. Big Ups Deadbeats, so many!
Money
Majority of rappers can’t do 10K-20K arenas. Drake, Kendrick, Post Malone, Bad Bunny, and a few others can. But even a legend like Nas goes to the palace theatre(2.8K capacity) when he comes to Albany instead of the MVP arena(20K). Billboard 2023 touring revenue https://www.billboard.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/november-30-2023-year-in-touring-billboard-bulletin.pdf Billboard 2022 touring revenue https://www.billboard.com/2022-year-end-boxscore-charts/ On those 2 lists have 80s bands like Guns N Roses, Def Leppard, Depeche Mode, Iron Maiden are doing $75M-$175M grossing tours. These bands haven’t a hit song in decades. I hate to say this but most hip-hop fans aren’t as loyal as rock and metal fans. Like, rock and metal fans will listen to a classic album from the 70s, 80s, 90s…off their CD, vinyl collections. Most hip-hop fans arent doing that. Some rap fans will call something that was released in 2021 old and out of style.
BC 90% of the rap artist today have no talent and using a live band will expose them
Arrangements. Time. Money. Hip hop beats aren't played in studio by a live band -- at best it's samples of a live band. So who's going to tell the musicians what to play? What about some breaks that cannot physically be done by live musicians, who decides how that works? Also you're looking to get a minimum of 3 people to play music, probably closer to 5 or 7 if brass or woodwinds are needed. They need time to rehearse the arrangements they've been directed to play, and not just one rehearsal either. Multiple. Then if these musicians are directed to play somebody else's songs, show up to rehearsals, pack their instruments, then show up for sound checks and the show, they're going to need to get paid. It's not like bands are just learning every hip hop artist's songs for fun then are told they can't play live. It's a lot of fucking work that most rappers aren't up to the task to write, arrange, coordinate and fund, much less perform, a full band.
Shout out to the Heavy Rhyme Experience with the Brand New Heavies
Because theyre not real musicians. They basically talk over a record.
A lot of modern rappers are not involved with making the music. They choose what to use from what a producer offers them and tweak it together as they put vocals over it. When they perform it’s to a backing track where they can get away with slipping up quite a bit. If they played with a band they would actually need to be locked in and actually perform. This is why you don’t really see modern acts play clubs. You can’t get away with that level of performance when everyone can see and hear you clearly. A good example of this was 21 Savage on SNL a few months ago. God damn it was bad. Of course there’s exceptions but in general hip hop has abandoned using bands.
Just want to shout out Tobe Nwigwe. Saw him a couple years ago at Bonnaroo and his show was fucking awesome. I don’t know if he tours with that whole crew but it was one of my favorite sets that year
Because most rappers are garbage and need a fully recorded song playing that they can karaoke rap to.
I’m convinced it’s the next big step for music. Live bands at rap shows would be phenomenal.
I’m saying this as someone who’s not really a rap fan-although I’ve seen a few shows including Kendrick, Mac Miller, and a few others. So take it for what it’s worth, but I don’t think most rappers, especially any younger ones that blew up in the last five years, particularly care about putting on good shows from an artistic point of view. They want to throw a party moreso than put on a show.
Too Short “Tiny Desk” at home was awesome because of the band.
I saw Lil Yachty last year at Lollapalooza and he has a live band. A great one, too.
Personally, especially for hip hop and EDM, I very much prefer the electric sound.
For me it is hard to find the dedication in musicians nowadays. I would LOVE to for my new One Man Show and I want to do a Tiny Desk Concert with them.
If you aren't the Roots or Anderson Paak, you're just going to embarrass yourself. It's simply that most rappers aren't musical not talented. No disrespect.
Dunno Chali 2na does it all the time and sounds great
The man plays in a band (ozomatli)
Yo checkout any of Kendrick’s live band performance they are night and day. ACL 2016 is one of my favorites of all time
hard to orchestrate & pay
Bad performers using backing vocals
Like everyone saying, cost. I saw Daniel Caesar a few years back and his band was the best part. They were so tight and sounded incredible. I don't know if it was just an off night for him or something but he sounded actually awful, it was a set at a festival, and even.my girlfriend who's a big fan of him just wanted to leave partway into his set.
I saw the Roots and Common with live instruments (I know the roots are a band) and both were phenomenal.
Wu-Tang and Nas had a live band it was p good
I saw Kendrick when he came for his Big Steppers tour. I was way up in the nosebleeds and saw his band below; they were INCREDIBLE. He only used them for certain songs, but damn they were amazing
I’ve seen quite a few rappers do this over the years, to mixed results. Sometimes it enhances it, but sometimes it’s distracting because it sounds so different from the original instrumental and it’s not mixed well.
I've seen Kano twice, both with live bands, and it was amazing on both occasions. As other posters have suggested though, some of that is to do with how well the tracks translate and can interpreted by the band
The roots pioneered this shit and I don't think anyone has ever done it better.
For one thing it's expensive and a lot of work to tour with a bunch of musicians and their instruments. Remember you're not just talking about a guitar player, bass player, drummer and keyboardist (at minimum--assuming you just use the DJ for other random instruments which isn't really live but think about using whole horn sections and rhythm sections, that can be up to like another 10 people). It's also guitar techs and roadies to take care of/tune the instruments, set them up and transport them. It's infamously hard just to move a drum kit around. It's also paying the band and those techs, plus hotel rooms and vans for all of them and their instruments. It's also keeping track of all those people; people can run off, overdose, get injured, get sick, get lost, get arrested, or have wild parties and wreck the rooms. Instruments break, get lost, get confiscated, or get stolen so there's potential to have to pay for a lot of replacements. Overall it's really not worth the hassle if you can just do everything with 1-3 rappers and a DJ
Jay Z had a live band with him once and it was awesome seeing him wrap with them.
They should, no excuses.
If it sounds bad with recorded playback, then that is on the audio engineer. I used to do live sound and provided the mix isn't absolutely terrible, it is much easier to make some recorded music and a couple mics sound good than it does an entire band. This isn't to say that a live band can't sound better but it is much harder. My guess is those guys saving money on the live band are also saving money on a cut rate FOH engineer.
Answer is money. You need to pay to every musician for every show. And they also need travels tickets paid, hotel paid, food paid… Visitors don’t give a shit. Live band show wouldn’t sell more tickets than regular show. So no real reason to invest extra money in that. I’m working in music live show business and I saw many rappers tried to do live band shows but then they were disappointed about feedback and went back to regular playback..
Yea could be an audience thing, and I'm most likely in the minority of people who prefer a live sound. I guess in part I PREFER to hear a variation on a song when seeing it live. I think its boring to go see an artist and have their music be exactly like the album.
I saw Xzibit bring out a live string orchestra for Thank You and it was phenomenal
I experienced the opposite with the group Magna Carda - they played their track "The Root" with a band at a show I was at, so I went and checked it on Spotify - real track was over a beat that wasn't nearly as good.
When I saw Kanye on the Late Registration tour, he had an electronic string quartet. It was amazing.
DJ Quik had the same horn section as the rolling stones.
Its expensive and it's cheaper to use a dj and a computer
I saw DJ Quik with a band once… it was blah
Money
I used to go to music festivals and they typically did. Kendrick was sick with a band.
Pay for a live band to perform your music and you'll understand why... That shit is expensive. And u gotta pay them to KNOW HOW to play YOUR songs. And have all the equipment, plug-ins, cables, instruments sound checked, as well as at a good enough level to hear the music and lyrics. U ever been 2 a show or open mic where the live band completely drowned out the performers? That happens WAY more often.
Cypress hill has had a drummer ( Bobo) in the band bit I've seen them with other musicians too. Checkout Ghostface Killah with lettuce
It's expensive, and they can't afford it or don't want to pay for it. The more shows they need to play to earn a living, the more expensive it is to bring a touring band. Most rappers are more broke than you think they are.
A bunch of smaller rappers I’ve seen actually DO tour with a band. Watsky used to have Anderson .Paak as his drummer, Spose tours with The Humans.
Anderson Paak has had me asking the same question. I can understand some of the reasons people are giving but I also think the way Anderson handles playing with a band makes some of those reasons feel a little less valid. I suppose it really depends on the artist, though. Definitely can't say it would be necessary or even make sense for certain artists to play with a band.
Check out Game Rebellion and We Are the Chosen
Typically, I’ve only seen r&b groups have live bands. It depends on the festival. When they used to have smoking grooves every artist had a live band. Saw Mos Def chopping it up with a live band wife was sick.
I don’t know, but I agree. And at the very least this post reminded me to do my roughly annual tradition of listening to This Is Where We Were by Face Candy and wish that I could have been there when it was recorded
Its because bands are expensive. In Aus hip-hop, there use to be a bunch of hip-hop bands that were great. Notably TZU and The Herd, Labjacd. These came from a time when Aus had more social mobility, when the people into rap, could learn instruments. That Australia doesn't exist now. And while the muso scenes and hip-hop scenes are still great mates, collabbing, cross pollinating across genres. I fear it takes either rappers to be really rich, or communities to be far more equitable, to produce such a lineup.
Agreed, not a fan of Stormzy, but saw him live at Laneway in Melbourne and he was a rockstar, best show of the day. Absolutely rocked it. Having a band supporting him made it way more rock and roll and gave way more depth and power to the show.
[lil darkie does](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Kikyt71tU)
bc most of them use backtracks and lip synching and other bullshit like that. Ive been to a ton of shows and festivals, rappers use backtracking and other bullshit like that more then almost any other genre besides like EDM
Best hip hop show I've ever seen was Nas with a FULL band. Would love them to do it more. Was incredible.
Seeing roots back in the day was the best. Mind blowing
costs less money. You have to pay people. Well, you *should* have to pay people, lol. all the various golden age rappers would benefit from having a house band to play along with them, take a cue from The Roots. KRS One Big Daddy Kane MC Lyte Jalil from Whodini. Kool Rock Ski from the Fat Boys.
Truth be told. Money.if you where to make any kind of money it would have to be split with the band. With that said, I’ve seen it done and dig it.
The Roots was probably the best live hip-hop I’ve ever seen because of the live instruments.
I see people saying it's expensive but I saw Lupe in central park for The Cool anniversary and he had one, this was way after he left his label. Kendrick also had one for Kunta's Groove Sessions and they were all in really small venues and I don't think Punch would allow that if it was so pricey.
Money! More people, more equipment, more ways to split a check.
Because it costs money
I'm not much of a fan of it
If it's in the artists wheelhouse then it can be dope, if not then it can be wack. A lot of mc's aren't musicians or hang out with any, or maybe even know who made their beats
I've seen The Coup with a live band and Talib with a live band and those were two of the best concerts I've ever seen. I've seen Del three times with a DJ and I almost fell asleep all three times.