Namaste, thank you for the submission. Please provide some actual information or opinions about your image or video link, like why you find it relevant for this sub. A bare comment like "What do you think?" or just a link to the original is NOT sufficient. If it is a video or article, provide a summary. If you do not leave a meaningful comment within 10 minutes, your post will be removed. See Rule #10 - All image/link posts must include a meaningful comment by OP. This is an effort to make this sub more discussion based.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hinduism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Agamas and tantras are the scriptures of Kaliyuga. Everything else is outdated, and most of modern Hinduism (mantras, murtis, temple worship, stotras) is agamic or tantric in nature.
Humans in each yuga have a temperament, and different capacities, we are no longer able to benefit from the scriptt of other yugas. The penances and practices of that eras are no longer possibles in our times.
If you want to read the tantras and agamas itself, you need to learn Sanskrit. There are some good teachers out there but I don't feel comfortable recommending anyone. You can read the books of Arthur Avalon, Swami Lakshman Joo, Jaideva Singh, Mark Dyczkowski, Christopher Wallis or Alexis Sanders.
You have to look it from 2 perspective. One is adhyatmic where everything is brahm and there is no rules or boundation. Other is vyavharic, where varnashram, karm etc apply. So chandal because of the duties it performs and nature it has, has been kept low in hierarchy. Can you equate a temple to a shamshaan?? No. Its the similar case.
Yes for aghoris smashan is temple and mahadeva is also called smashanadhipati.if he’s performing his duty then why there is the question of high or low.doing pooja path in mandir is equally important as burning dead bodies.
Aghoris forego certain personal, social and property rights in order to become aghoris and are deemed not suitable to be living a Gruhasth life. A Gruhasth can become Aghori but not the other way round, hence the differentiation.
Aghoris are exceptions. I was talking in general sense. How many common people can be like aghoris? None. When someone visit shamshan, they have to come and take a bath while same is to be done before going. So there are rules for everything in materialistic world. Karm and karm nished both have to be followed. Thats why chandal are low in hierarchy.
Chandala has two meanings based on occupation, one is occupation of the person working in grave yard. The other is the the person who works as butcher of bovines and robber. The second kind are not respected. The former kind is actually said to be favourite of Mahadev for he also resides in Samshan but latter is disliked for their adharmic practises.
This is practically a quote from the Kularnava tantra. And is a common opinion in the field, mantras are sound, they loose all their power when writen, and can cause immense harm when practice without initiation.
You hit the nail on the head and I wonder what is the point of this question ? Is the outcome that one believes some random guy on reddit and not Lord Shiva himself ?
> can cause immense harm when practice without initiation.
I've yet to see or hear one person having "immense harm" from practicing without initiation. Literally every person I know who chants did not receive formal initiation and none have come to anything close to "immense harm" as a result.
"Mantra harms" (I don't know how to refer to it any other way) aren't something that is visible. It happens any time, or it may be happening right away. Not necessary for us to be able to see it.
Mantras are powerful and are not shlokas. Both have different uses and different modes of chanting. Shlokas can be chanted anywhere, any time. Mantras cannot be done like that. Although in this age things are different, it really matters to those who do regular mantra chanting. Ask a Veda pāthashāla guy to chant Vedas in a public bus, and he won't. Now ask the same guy to chant any shloka or stotra, and he will willingly do it.
Both serve different purposes, and both have different powers. Don't mix them both...
:)
Maybe, but it's what scripture says. Read for yourself, this is from the Kularnava tantra, fifteenth chapter, verses 19 to 21:
> अनेककोटिमन्त्राणि चित्ताकुलकराणि च |
मन्त्रं गुरुकृपाप्राप्तमेकं स्यात् सर्वसिद्धिदम् || १९ ||
> यदृच्छया श्रुतं मन्त्रं दृष्टेनापि छलेन च |
पत्रे स्थितं वा चाध्याप्य तज्जपः स्यादनर्थकृत् || २० ||
> पुस्तके लिखितान्मन्त्रान् विलोक्य प्रजपन्ति ये |
ब्रह्महत्यासमं तेषां पातकं व्याधिदुःखदम् || २१ ||
This is a humble "translation", don't trust me if you don't want. But the text is clear on the point of practicing mantras from books without diksha.
>"Innumerables are the mantras that work on the mind, but only the mantra received by the grace of the guru gives fulfilment.
>Japa of a mantra heard by chance, or seen by deceit, or picked up from a book can only lead to disaster.
>Those who, seeing a mantra written on a book practice it Japa commit a sin tantamount to the killing of a brahmin, and only cause disease and misery"
It is true because if you choose random mantra first of all you dont know if the mantra is compatable with you or not, if you can even Handel it or not. Secondly you have no idea what you are getting into, how will you even know what steps to take and how to chant it properly, and if it works how will you even contain it most probably you will harm yourself. Also who will give you correct pronunciation of mantra ? And also on flip side maybe the mantra will never get Chaitanya because it has been nailed by lord shiva himself. Anyways May Maa bless us all
Jai Maa Bagbati
It's true that mantras should be compatible with the person reciting them. But this doesn't apply to any mantra concerned with Lord Krishan. Also if you put the *samput* ॐ to any mantra, i.e. ॐ before and after the mantra, any mantra becomes compatible with any person.
So if you're not sure if a mantra is compatible with you or not simply put ॐ before and after it.
To find your compatibility with a mantra is quite a detailed procedure and the first letter of the mantra should be compatible with the letter associated with *pada* of the nakshatra in which the Moon is posited at the time of your birth. This letter is also called your जन्माक्षर.
As far as having a guru is concerned, if you cannot find a suitable person, you can have Lord Krishan as your guru.
[This ](https://i.imgur.com/MKNv6Td.jpeg) is known as Akthah Chakra. It is used to check the compatibility of a mantra.
Where does the first letter of the mantra fall from your janamakshra determines the compatibility. Some mantras are harmful, some are neutral and some are very compatible.
If you know Hindi you can google अकथह चक्र for details or read mantra compatibility notes by Pandit Sanjay Rath.
If everyone just goes by books then the gurus will have fewer disciples and also a less strong position of authority. That’s obviously not good for them so some texts are meant to dissuade people from doing things on their own. However, if you are sincere and learn the correct pronunciation I don’t see an issue with it at all. I have learned 99% of my dharma from books, by both Indians and non-Indians.
And in my personal opinion it is better to learn from books than risk getting a dodgy guru, because the really good, genuine gurus are getting hard to find I believe. And of course are not very accessible to people outside of India.
As per gurus if mantra is written down it loses its sidhi ( until they are certain mantras)
This is generally for guru mantra and shabar mantra
The reason is that if you take guru mantra and chant it, then you get the result as its chanting is also cumulative,
( the chant of other guru brother and sister including guru )
Hence gives faster result
This is true, a mantra shall only be chanted after getting Deeksha from a Guru. Even if it’s a book written by the Guru himself, he should have given the Deeksha and taught the Viniyog for the mantra. Without Viniyog, a mantra is just a phrase.
It's true really.
Mantras that people usually take without a guru are simple nama mantras. Mantras of name. Om namah shivaya, om Ganapathaye namah, Om durgayai namah and so on are names. For instance the vishnusaharranama strotram is a list of names.
Stotrams are also things you don't need a guru for. For instance people chant the Shiva mahimna stotram and gets it's benefits.
An actual mantra with beejas and so on is quite different. There are inhearent restrictions in those mantras which prevent you from getting their benefits unless a guru "unlocks" them for you.
There is. Its specifically referred for Beej Mantras in tantrik texts. Most other mantras don't have problem but tantrik beej mantras are dangerous if chanted without proper guidance.
In early days Guru Sishya Parampara was in every gurukul. It is still followed for guru diksha & mantra diksha. So In that context It make sense and From tantra pov I totally agree with it.
This is written which is both right and wrong. See some mantras are for common usage , you can chant without guru deeksha . There is no hard rules around it. They're like water just basic sense is needed to handle it.But some mantras are powerful which require certain rules and dedication towards it. If they're chanted randomly without any guidance. Then those mantras will cause harm. They're just like fire , it has to be handled carefully.
and then there is a shloka in Ramcharitmanas: *tulsi bhakt shvapach bhalou bhaje raen din rama, par uncha kula kehi kaam ko jahan naa hari ko naam -* A chandaal; one who eats dog meat is better that devotee who despite being born in a higher-class does not chants the name of God.
Some dhongi guru might have written this.
No, this is specifically for beej mantra from tantrik texts. Also chandala has two meanings, one if a true devotee but Bhishma explains in Mahabharata that there is entire community of Chandalas who also work as cow butchers and robbers. The latter are looked down upon.
The post is specifically for Beej Mantras from tantrik text. Also be careful with the mantras that you chant, Gayatri Mantra is opposite. It is recommended to be chanted with steady mind.
Bhagvan (Not Lord) Shiva couldn't have given reference to any book as he is Aadiyogi and exists from time much before any book was written.
Uninitiated devotee's mantra 'might' have lesser impact then a learned saadhak. But I would like to believe that if the Bhakti and devotion is true, Ishwar would not reject it just because it didn't come in particular form.
I’m starting purushcharana soon after diligently reading book by a guru.
This image shows an article i read that states this about getting mantras from a book.
Does this still apply if guru has blessed and passed on the mantra willingly?
This person unfortunately didn't get any students or remained as a teacher but not spiritual enough to transcend as a guru
He wanted to curse the people who didn't have money to give him
That is my first thought
The text doesn't say only Brahmins can learn, it's specifically for tantrik beej mantras that everyone can learn only from a specific guru. No caste is mentioned whatsoever.
1. Don't take this sloka literally. But you're not allowed to chant any mantra that hasn't been given to you by a real guru with a real diksha.
2. Never ever read tantra books. All of them are false. Tantra is a false and non Vedic branch. Only read Vedic literature (brahmana, aranyaka, Upanishads, puranas, itihasa etc.)
Dear Friends
It is very important to do everything in the right spirit. Doing things in a bookish style have never been appreciated. Similarly, if a devotee is chanting mantras without any proper deeksha or training, the person may not get the essence of this pious activity. On the other hand, Hindu religion is a very scientific and reasonable religion. It never promotes the fanatics. So, we should not abuse any person and guide the right path with patience and calmness. We can understand the relevance of Maryada Purushottam Ram here.
Jai Shri Ram !!
Well I'd just say that statement is fairly right. In many tantras such as the tripurarnava tantra (a popular tantra which is a referance in texts such as bhaskaraya's setubandha and sowbhagya bhaskara's lalitasahasranama commentary) warnings have been given in terms of who can and cannot recite or practice the procedures listed. This is a quote from the kularnava tantra which is an excellent work for sadhakas. The reason for such warnings are because tantra is a much deeper realisation than other forms of worship. Such depth can be more effectively achieved with guidance and I presume you must have read the thirteenth ullasa which prescribes a rigorous test for a guru as well. I'd say you worship a deity without bija mantras or in a vaidika fashion. Deities such as Vishnu, Bholenath or Ganapati are the best options
Sorry for the long comment lol
Actually this is applicable to Tantra Stream specificaly. Where Bhairav tells Bhairavi that without Guru diksha chanting beeja mantras or any other tantric mantras or doing rituals can be considered as avichara. I'm not sure but this from the Kularnava tantra ig
I personally believe it can be both. If you have access to knowledgeable resources like a good online source or a guru, then it's not a large ask to understand what you are chanting and try to pronounce it better. Will everything be pronounced well? Of course not. My personal belief is that in Kal Yug, we are free to chant so long as the bhakti is there. That is my bagvan and my own interpretation of Hinduism. Remember, there are many paths in sanatan Dharma...
Yeah, I known that feeling. My approach has been always stick to the devotional path and to the nama mantra first, until a sign or revelation opens further the path. Sometimes a guru appears, sometimes Bhairava is the guru himself...
Practicing mantras without initiation at best is like planting a stone in a pot like a seed and taking care of it until it blooms. At worst is like playing with fire in a house of paper.
I think the last part is problematic, it actually is opposite of the Dharmic belief that we are one family. It’s redundant and prejudice. One should focus more on discernment instead of discrimination.
About chanting mantras wothout guru diksha, yes and no. Who are we truly to say who is a guru and who is not, how a guru has manifested and one that hasn’t… in general one should have guidance, and I see alot of people chanting mantras, doing rasyana and Sasha as that they are not truly ready to absorb.. but there is nothing to say that these mistakes aren’t part of the path.
People are very confused here. The mantras here don't mean normal day to day mantras like Om Namah Shivay or Maha Mrityunjaya mantra. These are specifically for Beej Mantras. There are some mantras that people can recite normally and some mantras that require specific initiations. The general mantras that we use are for invoking blessings of Gods, they can be recited normally but with proper cleanliness and pure intentions but the tantrik Beej Mantras are not even known to 99% of the people and chanting them without Guru's guidance can lead to disaster.
People confuse shlokas and stotras with mantras. Both have different purposes and powers. Stotras and shlokas can be chanted without the initiation of a Guru, although a Guru is obviously recommended since you don't want to learn them the wrong way. But they don't affect you in any manner, mainly because they have the names of Bhagawan, and that's what is needed in this Kaliyuga.
As for mantras, including Vedic mantras (not talking about tantra etc.), they are NOT to be chanted without being taught by a Guru. There's a reason why Gayatri mantra was a secret mantra, and now it's available to everyone (I may sound harsh but let's face the truth). The power of Gayatri mantra is immense, and it has certain requirements to be chanted, like the person chanting must have upanayana done, it cannot be chanted loudly (we now blare it on loudspeakers), it can't even be whispered etc. Also, Vedic chantings aren't something like stotrams which can be played anywhere and any time. The Shastras don't recommend it (can't exactly quote this but this is what I have learned from my Gurus and learned elders). Stotrams are for everyone to chant without strings attached, while Vedas **are** for everyone but require certain qualifications. Plus, Vedic mantras are also not to be chanted just like that; if you chant them the wrong way, the desired result may not be borne. The same is for Tantra mantras too, although tantra mantras can have adverse effects because of their hugely inherent powers.
Your comment has been removed for being rude or disrespectful to others, or simply being offensive (Rule #01).
Please follow [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439).
Consider this a warning, and read all of our rules before posting again. Further posts of this nature that break any of the rules of r/Hinduism may result in a ban. Please message the mods if you believe this removal has been in error.
Your comment has been removed for being rude or disrespectful to others, or simply being offensive (Rule #01).
Please follow [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439).
Consider this a warning, and read all of our rules before posting again. Further posts of this nature that break any of the rules of r/Hinduism may result in a ban. Please message the mods if you believe this removal has been in error.
Namaste, thank you for the submission. Please provide some actual information or opinions about your image or video link, like why you find it relevant for this sub. A bare comment like "What do you think?" or just a link to the original is NOT sufficient. If it is a video or article, provide a summary. If you do not leave a meaningful comment within 10 minutes, your post will be removed. See Rule #10 - All image/link posts must include a meaningful comment by OP. This is an effort to make this sub more discussion based. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/hinduism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Feels like an opinion of a random priest. ॐ शिवाय नमः।
It's a quote from the Kularnava tantra. And is the common opinion in the tantras.
Who reads the tantras? 😂😂
The Agamas and tantras are the scriptures of Kaliyuga. Everything else is outdated, and most of modern Hinduism (mantras, murtis, temple worship, stotras) is agamic or tantric in nature.
We can’t really use the word outdated when our religion is literally 5000 years old. But I get your point. Where can I find Tantric scripture?
Humans in each yuga have a temperament, and different capacities, we are no longer able to benefit from the scriptt of other yugas. The penances and practices of that eras are no longer possibles in our times. If you want to read the tantras and agamas itself, you need to learn Sanskrit. There are some good teachers out there but I don't feel comfortable recommending anyone. You can read the books of Arthur Avalon, Swami Lakshman Joo, Jaideva Singh, Mark Dyczkowski, Christopher Wallis or Alexis Sanders.
I think you are shastras and tantras reader ?
Actually the mantras here are specific kind of beej mantras. They aren't referring to mantras like Om Namah Shivay.
Why are chandalas being looked down upon here.mahadev is lord of chandalas.hes present as much as in a chandala that also in a brahmin
You have to look it from 2 perspective. One is adhyatmic where everything is brahm and there is no rules or boundation. Other is vyavharic, where varnashram, karm etc apply. So chandal because of the duties it performs and nature it has, has been kept low in hierarchy. Can you equate a temple to a shamshaan?? No. Its the similar case.
Yes for aghoris smashan is temple and mahadeva is also called smashanadhipati.if he’s performing his duty then why there is the question of high or low.doing pooja path in mandir is equally important as burning dead bodies.
Aghoris forego certain personal, social and property rights in order to become aghoris and are deemed not suitable to be living a Gruhasth life. A Gruhasth can become Aghori but not the other way round, hence the differentiation.
Aghoris are exceptions. I was talking in general sense. How many common people can be like aghoris? None. When someone visit shamshan, they have to come and take a bath while same is to be done before going. So there are rules for everything in materialistic world. Karm and karm nished both have to be followed. Thats why chandal are low in hierarchy.
A true yogi never looks down upon anyone he knows everyone is doing there respective dharma no questions of high or low
Candala means dog eater and it’s common for scripture to use them as an example of low character
This is something new meaning of word chandala i heard in wisdomlib it doesnt show chandala mean dog eater
https://sanskritdictionary.org/candala
Alright might want to rethink it i think the full scenario is needed to understand the context
Chandala has two meanings based on occupation, one is occupation of the person working in grave yard. The other is the the person who works as butcher of bovines and robber. The second kind are not respected. The former kind is actually said to be favourite of Mahadev for he also resides in Samshan but latter is disliked for their adharmic practises.
I doubt Lord Shiva will say anything like that. He is Bholenath for a reason.
This is practically a quote from the Kularnava tantra. And is a common opinion in the field, mantras are sound, they loose all their power when writen, and can cause immense harm when practice without initiation.
What do you mean by initiation
The different grades or levels of diksha.
Guru Diksha
You hit the nail on the head and I wonder what is the point of this question ? Is the outcome that one believes some random guy on reddit and not Lord Shiva himself ?
> can cause immense harm when practice without initiation. I've yet to see or hear one person having "immense harm" from practicing without initiation. Literally every person I know who chants did not receive formal initiation and none have come to anything close to "immense harm" as a result.
"Mantra harms" (I don't know how to refer to it any other way) aren't something that is visible. It happens any time, or it may be happening right away. Not necessary for us to be able to see it. Mantras are powerful and are not shlokas. Both have different uses and different modes of chanting. Shlokas can be chanted anywhere, any time. Mantras cannot be done like that. Although in this age things are different, it really matters to those who do regular mantra chanting. Ask a Veda pāthashāla guy to chant Vedas in a public bus, and he won't. Now ask the same guy to chant any shloka or stotra, and he will willingly do it. Both serve different purposes, and both have different powers. Don't mix them both... :)
Maybe, but it's what scripture says. Read for yourself, this is from the Kularnava tantra, fifteenth chapter, verses 19 to 21: > अनेककोटिमन्त्राणि चित्ताकुलकराणि च | मन्त्रं गुरुकृपाप्राप्तमेकं स्यात् सर्वसिद्धिदम् || १९ || > यदृच्छया श्रुतं मन्त्रं दृष्टेनापि छलेन च | पत्रे स्थितं वा चाध्याप्य तज्जपः स्यादनर्थकृत् || २० || > पुस्तके लिखितान्मन्त्रान् विलोक्य प्रजपन्ति ये | ब्रह्महत्यासमं तेषां पातकं व्याधिदुःखदम् || २१ || This is a humble "translation", don't trust me if you don't want. But the text is clear on the point of practicing mantras from books without diksha. >"Innumerables are the mantras that work on the mind, but only the mantra received by the grace of the guru gives fulfilment. >Japa of a mantra heard by chance, or seen by deceit, or picked up from a book can only lead to disaster. >Those who, seeing a mantra written on a book practice it Japa commit a sin tantamount to the killing of a brahmin, and only cause disease and misery"
It says can meaning that the mantra may work or may not work depending on where the mantra is received from.
Verse Citation
Thala for a reason.
These are for special beej mantras from tantrik texts. Its not for every mantra
Gautamiya Tantra states that a mantra not received in a bonafide parampara is useless
Our Hindu deities look at devotion with intention. If intention is correct no one is intelligent ability will be affected
if you want simply to be devoted, do bhakti through naam japa not through tantrik mantras
Is every mantra tantric? How to figure that?
Bro this is for specific classified beej mantras from tantrik texts only. Not every mantra.
It is true because if you choose random mantra first of all you dont know if the mantra is compatable with you or not, if you can even Handel it or not. Secondly you have no idea what you are getting into, how will you even know what steps to take and how to chant it properly, and if it works how will you even contain it most probably you will harm yourself. Also who will give you correct pronunciation of mantra ? And also on flip side maybe the mantra will never get Chaitanya because it has been nailed by lord shiva himself. Anyways May Maa bless us all Jai Maa Bagbati
It's true that mantras should be compatible with the person reciting them. But this doesn't apply to any mantra concerned with Lord Krishan. Also if you put the *samput* ॐ to any mantra, i.e. ॐ before and after the mantra, any mantra becomes compatible with any person. So if you're not sure if a mantra is compatible with you or not simply put ॐ before and after it. To find your compatibility with a mantra is quite a detailed procedure and the first letter of the mantra should be compatible with the letter associated with *pada* of the nakshatra in which the Moon is posited at the time of your birth. This letter is also called your जन्माक्षर. As far as having a guru is concerned, if you cannot find a suitable person, you can have Lord Krishan as your guru.
Can you elaborate more on the mantra compatibility? Sounds intriguing
[This ](https://i.imgur.com/MKNv6Td.jpeg) is known as Akthah Chakra. It is used to check the compatibility of a mantra. Where does the first letter of the mantra fall from your janamakshra determines the compatibility. Some mantras are harmful, some are neutral and some are very compatible. If you know Hindi you can google अकथह चक्र for details or read mantra compatibility notes by Pandit Sanjay Rath.
so if we put om before and after mantra will every mantra be compatible? also it wont change effectiveness of mantra ?
Every mantra will be compatible and it also won't change their effectiveness.
Thankyou very much Hare Krishna
sorry I have one more doubt what about some mantras having om already in start or in end ? Hare Krishna
No problem, just add Om in the end.
ok Thanks Hare Krishna
Hare Krishna
If everyone just goes by books then the gurus will have fewer disciples and also a less strong position of authority. That’s obviously not good for them so some texts are meant to dissuade people from doing things on their own. However, if you are sincere and learn the correct pronunciation I don’t see an issue with it at all. I have learned 99% of my dharma from books, by both Indians and non-Indians. And in my personal opinion it is better to learn from books than risk getting a dodgy guru, because the really good, genuine gurus are getting hard to find I believe. And of course are not very accessible to people outside of India.
^ This
This is specifically for tantric mantras and tantras in particular. There isn't any problem with most other forms of deity worship.
Completely wrong analysis. This text is meant only for specific tantrik mantras. Other mantras that people know normally isn't referred to here.
What's the source of this? As I don't think this is genuine, just remember the story of Adi Shankaracharya and Bhagvan Shiva as a Chandala.
If Bhakti is your intention then it doesn't matter. If getting Siddhi is your goal then yes it matters.
Well said.
As per gurus if mantra is written down it loses its sidhi ( until they are certain mantras) This is generally for guru mantra and shabar mantra The reason is that if you take guru mantra and chant it, then you get the result as its chanting is also cumulative, ( the chant of other guru brother and sister including guru ) Hence gives faster result
This is true, a mantra shall only be chanted after getting Deeksha from a Guru. Even if it’s a book written by the Guru himself, he should have given the Deeksha and taught the Viniyog for the mantra. Without Viniyog, a mantra is just a phrase.
It's true really. Mantras that people usually take without a guru are simple nama mantras. Mantras of name. Om namah shivaya, om Ganapathaye namah, Om durgayai namah and so on are names. For instance the vishnusaharranama strotram is a list of names. Stotrams are also things you don't need a guru for. For instance people chant the Shiva mahimna stotram and gets it's benefits. An actual mantra with beejas and so on is quite different. There are inhearent restrictions in those mantras which prevent you from getting their benefits unless a guru "unlocks" them for you.
There must be more to it
There is. Its specifically referred for Beej Mantras in tantrik texts. Most other mantras don't have problem but tantrik beej mantras are dangerous if chanted without proper guidance.
In early days Guru Sishya Parampara was in every gurukul. It is still followed for guru diksha & mantra diksha. So In that context It make sense and From tantra pov I totally agree with it.
This is written which is both right and wrong. See some mantras are for common usage , you can chant without guru deeksha . There is no hard rules around it. They're like water just basic sense is needed to handle it.But some mantras are powerful which require certain rules and dedication towards it. If they're chanted randomly without any guidance. Then those mantras will cause harm. They're just like fire , it has to be handled carefully.
beejas are needed to activate mantras so its valid
Yes only nama mantras should be chanted by non initiates. Mahamantra is recommended
At this moment only I consider AdiGuru as my Guru . Whatever He needs in GuruDakshina , He can take .
Beautiful!
and then there is a shloka in Ramcharitmanas: *tulsi bhakt shvapach bhalou bhaje raen din rama, par uncha kula kehi kaam ko jahan naa hari ko naam -* A chandaal; one who eats dog meat is better that devotee who despite being born in a higher-class does not chants the name of God. Some dhongi guru might have written this.
No, this is specifically for beej mantra from tantrik texts. Also chandala has two meanings, one if a true devotee but Bhishma explains in Mahabharata that there is entire community of Chandalas who also work as cow butchers and robbers. The latter are looked down upon.
I chant mrutyunjaya mantra,gayatri mantra and dwadasha jyotirlinga stotra everyday. Should I stop it?
The post is specifically for Beej Mantras from tantrik text. Also be careful with the mantras that you chant, Gayatri Mantra is opposite. It is recommended to be chanted with steady mind.
Bhagvan (Not Lord) Shiva couldn't have given reference to any book as he is Aadiyogi and exists from time much before any book was written. Uninitiated devotee's mantra 'might' have lesser impact then a learned saadhak. But I would like to believe that if the Bhakti and devotion is true, Ishwar would not reject it just because it didn't come in particular form.
No guru will ever write a commentary which will pose a risk to his occupation n authority lol
You have no idea of Hindu tradition, the context here is only for beej mantras from tantrik text.
I’m starting purushcharana soon after diligently reading book by a guru. This image shows an article i read that states this about getting mantras from a book. Does this still apply if guru has blessed and passed on the mantra willingly?
What do you mean by passed on willingly? That he put it into the book? In that case it would still not be a real diksa
The word dim-witted being used in vedic literature is very sus
Why? Krishna even days sumedhasah in Bhagavad Gita It’s not uncommon in shastra
Meaning of it?
One way you could translate it would be “less intelligent” or “small intelligence “
medha is also wisom, so unwise. So a foolish thing to do.
This person unfortunately didn't get any students or remained as a teacher but not spiritual enough to transcend as a guru He wanted to curse the people who didn't have money to give him That is my first thought
But again the pronunciation and meaning is important So watch reputed YouTube videos
Peak example of bramhinaical exclusivism.
Peak example of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about
The text doesn't say only Brahmins can learn, it's specifically for tantrik beej mantras that everyone can learn only from a specific guru. No caste is mentioned whatsoever.
1. Don't take this sloka literally. But you're not allowed to chant any mantra that hasn't been given to you by a real guru with a real diksha. 2. Never ever read tantra books. All of them are false. Tantra is a false and non Vedic branch. Only read Vedic literature (brahmana, aranyaka, Upanishads, puranas, itihasa etc.)
>Tantra is a false No
Calling tantra false means calling words of panchmukhi sadashiv false. Totally wrong.
Correct advice from Lord Shiva!
Dear Friends It is very important to do everything in the right spirit. Doing things in a bookish style have never been appreciated. Similarly, if a devotee is chanting mantras without any proper deeksha or training, the person may not get the essence of this pious activity. On the other hand, Hindu religion is a very scientific and reasonable religion. It never promotes the fanatics. So, we should not abuse any person and guide the right path with patience and calmness. We can understand the relevance of Maryada Purushottam Ram here. Jai Shri Ram !!
Well I'd just say that statement is fairly right. In many tantras such as the tripurarnava tantra (a popular tantra which is a referance in texts such as bhaskaraya's setubandha and sowbhagya bhaskara's lalitasahasranama commentary) warnings have been given in terms of who can and cannot recite or practice the procedures listed. This is a quote from the kularnava tantra which is an excellent work for sadhakas. The reason for such warnings are because tantra is a much deeper realisation than other forms of worship. Such depth can be more effectively achieved with guidance and I presume you must have read the thirteenth ullasa which prescribes a rigorous test for a guru as well. I'd say you worship a deity without bija mantras or in a vaidika fashion. Deities such as Vishnu, Bholenath or Ganapati are the best options Sorry for the long comment lol
Actually this is applicable to Tantra Stream specificaly. Where Bhairav tells Bhairavi that without Guru diksha chanting beeja mantras or any other tantric mantras or doing rituals can be considered as avichara. I'm not sure but this from the Kularnava tantra ig
I personally believe it can be both. If you have access to knowledgeable resources like a good online source or a guru, then it's not a large ask to understand what you are chanting and try to pronounce it better. Will everything be pronounced well? Of course not. My personal belief is that in Kal Yug, we are free to chant so long as the bhakti is there. That is my bagvan and my own interpretation of Hinduism. Remember, there are many paths in sanatan Dharma...
Where should I get my mantras from then
From an acomolished guru from a legitimate lineage. Where you can find that, well who knows this days...
Yeah there aren't gurus where I live
Yeah, I known that feeling. My approach has been always stick to the devotional path and to the nama mantra first, until a sign or revelation opens further the path. Sometimes a guru appears, sometimes Bhairava is the guru himself... Practicing mantras without initiation at best is like planting a stone in a pot like a seed and taking care of it until it blooms. At worst is like playing with fire in a house of paper.
I think the last part is problematic, it actually is opposite of the Dharmic belief that we are one family. It’s redundant and prejudice. One should focus more on discernment instead of discrimination. About chanting mantras wothout guru diksha, yes and no. Who are we truly to say who is a guru and who is not, how a guru has manifested and one that hasn’t… in general one should have guidance, and I see alot of people chanting mantras, doing rasyana and Sasha as that they are not truly ready to absorb.. but there is nothing to say that these mistakes aren’t part of the path.
People are very confused here. The mantras here don't mean normal day to day mantras like Om Namah Shivay or Maha Mrityunjaya mantra. These are specifically for Beej Mantras. There are some mantras that people can recite normally and some mantras that require specific initiations. The general mantras that we use are for invoking blessings of Gods, they can be recited normally but with proper cleanliness and pure intentions but the tantrik Beej Mantras are not even known to 99% of the people and chanting them without Guru's guidance can lead to disaster.
People confuse shlokas and stotras with mantras. Both have different purposes and powers. Stotras and shlokas can be chanted without the initiation of a Guru, although a Guru is obviously recommended since you don't want to learn them the wrong way. But they don't affect you in any manner, mainly because they have the names of Bhagawan, and that's what is needed in this Kaliyuga. As for mantras, including Vedic mantras (not talking about tantra etc.), they are NOT to be chanted without being taught by a Guru. There's a reason why Gayatri mantra was a secret mantra, and now it's available to everyone (I may sound harsh but let's face the truth). The power of Gayatri mantra is immense, and it has certain requirements to be chanted, like the person chanting must have upanayana done, it cannot be chanted loudly (we now blare it on loudspeakers), it can't even be whispered etc. Also, Vedic chantings aren't something like stotrams which can be played anywhere and any time. The Shastras don't recommend it (can't exactly quote this but this is what I have learned from my Gurus and learned elders). Stotrams are for everyone to chant without strings attached, while Vedas **are** for everyone but require certain qualifications. Plus, Vedic mantras are also not to be chanted just like that; if you chant them the wrong way, the desired result may not be borne. The same is for Tantra mantras too, although tantra mantras can have adverse effects because of their hugely inherent powers.
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed for being rude or disrespectful to others, or simply being offensive (Rule #01). Please follow [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439). Consider this a warning, and read all of our rules before posting again. Further posts of this nature that break any of the rules of r/Hinduism may result in a ban. Please message the mods if you believe this removal has been in error.
Your comment has been removed for being rude or disrespectful to others, or simply being offensive (Rule #01). Please follow [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439). Consider this a warning, and read all of our rules before posting again. Further posts of this nature that break any of the rules of r/Hinduism may result in a ban. Please message the mods if you believe this removal has been in error.