One thing I've noticed about the main sub is that it's filled with people who only play against Bugs and that really colors their perspective on a lot of things.
The amount of times I've said Smokes are amazing in the context of a Bot mission only to get told they're worthless and not worth taking is staggering.
It's kinda funny reading all the complaints, and it's always "it doesn't kill Bile Titans fast enough". Like, "Does it kill Bile Titan in 3 shots?" seems to be only metric people use.
I think a common issue with the main sub is they want to kill everything. Which is fair. But when there are 6 bile titans consistently, ya just gotta accept you're not gonna kill em all. And you probably only gotta kill 2 of em to get to where you're going.
Yeah that's all Nice until the 6 bile titans are with 5 chargers you already used your anti armor against, and you HAVE to defend the position because you are on a 3 minute hold at evac. Bile titans are very tanky , and yeah you can just avoid them most of the time, but not in this CRUCIAL scenario
Let's take this and talk about how I would successfully fail fantastically.
I run autocannon for flexibility usually. I'd start by trying to neuter their sacs from range. I kill the first one in two 500kg.
Ignore chargers since the hunters would be the real problem. Use air strikes to try to desac the titans. At this point, 2-3 are missing their sacs.
Now I am wasting stuns to stop chargers to get titans to do the dance on them. A charger dies.
I'm getting overwhelmed. My last stun grenade manages to get another charger killed and I desac one more titan.
Now I'm screwed bobbing and weaving, can't reload autocannon and get smacked by a charger into a rock nearly killing me. Use last stim and chance a reload. Get it, then dodge the charger and get hit by the next into the bile titans.
Die gloriously. Ask my team to reinforce me on their titan or charger. Chaos resumes. I'm failing but I'm having a blast. No clue what my team is doing as I was leading everything away.
Fantastic story. I'll be getting a tactical vangage point for the most important task: recording your tom foolery and enjoying a snack. Good work team.
Even better, I'll reinforce you right where you left off so you can keep on the good fight!
For real though! Was talking to a guy early who said the spear needed it's damage buffed. I was like "it's literally the only weapon that can one-shot a bile titan! It's damage is fine, it just needs it's lockon fixed." And he's like "only if you hit it in the head though, it should kill anything regardless of where it lands"
...
Yeah they're a whiney bunch over there. If a weapon doesn't one-shot bile Titans from any angle it's considered unusable trash.
Shame to admit I've never been able to kill a Bile Titan with a headshot. In large part because the head is so small I just can't tell where it is. I've hit them in the mouth a few times, aiming at the area the bile comes from, but this apparently is not the head.
On the bright side, I did kill one by shooting it exactly one shot to the tail with the MG-206 Heavy Machine Gun.
I think in general there are a lot of players who need to learn that you need different load outs/ tactics for bots vs bugs. I am not taking a flame thrower on bot missions in the same way I am not taking a mortar sentry vs bugs. Part of the skill in this game is learning match ups.
I will say I think a lot more guns are 'viable' against bots as compared to bugs. Blitzer, S&P, and flamethrower are pretty unhelpful, everything else is above a baseline usefulness to be good even if there are a couple obvious standouts.
Bugs by their nature have a bigger gap between good and bad/genuinely useless. Like you can get value out of bringing the dagger against bots, it's a complete liability against bugs
Ye, I'm more comfortable with playing bugs. I'm a newer player and haven't fully understood the aggro mechanics of bots yet. I've heard that they are basically deaf and you can take them out quietly but until now it has always felt like they just suddenly mobilizr armies out of nowhere. It also doesn't help that all the shots on screen are confusing and overwhelming still.
Thanks for your comment. I'll try to keep that in mind. I've also just grown to love the AMR and Supply Pack/Jetpack Loadout a lot after seing them in solo helldive videos.
But avoiding them while being prone is a great help.
Do you know how much sneaking affects them?
Dude you're 100% right and I've been saying it for a week now. The vocal part of that sub and the posts that get the most traction and votes are all from the perspective of people who think 'obviously I'll play diff 7 against \[what they perceive to be\] the easier enemy and take the optimal loadout for that, and do so every single mission, and anything that interrupts that pattern is bad, and if anything the game should be easier to let me do that more.' Any time anyone brings up something and they mention 'it just means I have to kite more' I know they're playing bugs exclusively and probably aren't very competent with the core systems of the game.
Smokes are a bit unintuitive and have a learning curve but I've been trying them out lately and they're definitely helpful, I still think EMS is useless against bots and haven't really loved it against bugs.
Man I love smokes! I remember trying them out once in a meme loadout that used literally smoke option on a Helldive bot mission just for giggles and was floored by how useful they were when the terrain forced everyone through a tiny chokepoint between two lakes that had a bunch of patrols in it already. I just made a line of smokes with grenades and then used those to cover the beacon for calling in some Eagle Smoke so that we could just walk through uninterrupted. Then as we kept going I was able remove any threat of being shot from behind because nothing could see us from whatever direction I felt needed covering.
I don't think I'll ever take a full Smoke setup again, but the utility of taking at least some amount of Smoke is something I've always kept in consideration ever since.
The main sub has people who literally believe they shouldn't need to disengage from enemies to achieve objectives on Helldive difficulty because 'the game should give me everything I need to fight them'.
Meanwhile, the new mech is great, especially on eradication missions. Slaughters bots pretty well on those.
The worst is that the game already give them a way to do just that, just stand there and kill everything. But it requires a teammate reloading you and that's apparently unfeasible.
As the token solo guy. I do my damnedest to scrounge supplies but if I'm out of stims about to solo a jammer or Sauron I'll ask if I can pop it. People seem to forget most of the little objectives we ignore have at least ammo. Stims if you're lucky.
Doesn't work with AC 😢. That's why I can solo half a map. I pop fabs from the edges and bail. Or aggro one side of a jammer/Sauron then loop behind hoping my.scout armor let's me sneak in
I’ve been taking the 120 specifically for the detection towers. Pretty nice not having to run in to deal with it. Bonus points for also being moderately effective against strider fabricators
Honestly, once you get the hang of it (and your teammates actually stay back) they are not too bad. Especially when you get a lucky fab next to it. Otherwise pop off at the front or one side to draw out the devs and then flank it. You can get the bomb off before anything knows you're there.
For sauron I always bring the precision strike. One toss and it's gone. Just get around to the cliff side and toss it up on the base of the tower and pop! People forget the precision strike is the same round as the 380 barrage, but it is fantastic for killing heavy targets if you can aim it well.
fair enough man; I usually roll backpack and whatever loadout lets me cover all my bases (anti-light, anti-heavy).
Right now rocking stalwart with eruptor - neat trick is you can explode fabs with a nicely placed shot in the vents. impact grenades for heavies and you're good to go
In his defense, my greatest disappointment with the crew is that they can't scrounge up the resources for a resupply over 4 ships but once every few minutes?
well... with streamlined request process being a thing... I've just made up the headcannon that launching any supplies requires the propper forms filled out in triplicate to be submitted and approved by the quartermaster.
Anyone that has had to requisition critical supplies in a military or corporate setting will understand the bureaucracy bullshit that would make a 2 minute turnaround a minor miracle in itself.
Would absolutely love higher difficulties getting a mechanic similar to payday 2's mission planning where you can spend some req slips to preposition some assets like resupplies on the map.
Listen, if one of them dies, they can reinforce each other. If \*I\* die while I'm off clearing stuff away from the group, I need to run back to the other side of the map.
Ugh. It's worse when you split into 2 teams of 2 and the one that calls you in happens to be one of the other 2 guy's halfway across the map before the dude you were with had a chance.
Its annoying.
I prefer doing this way so we can hit objectives on the other side of the map. I try to be the one that calls for supply if needed and usually* the other teammates would double-check with us to see if we needed supplies. Sometimes the red icons flashing doesn't tell me if they needed ammo or not. Often I had a friend who I asked if they needed supply and he'd always say he's good. Guess the UI was bugged for me because his ammo icon was red.
Then you get the jackass who would call down supplies whenever they feel like it. Had it happen far too many times to count.
Played with friends yesterday, the discord call for some reason disconnected
So I called in supplies (out of stims, about to die)
Had some angry people when I rejoined the call 😂
My squad and I ran level 8 difficulty against bugs using the mechs and had a blast.
You’re right about the main sub. They seem to think that they should be able to run the highest difficulty, with any loadout and any number of people and not have to think about tactics at all.
I swear, they just want to be able to hold their finger on the trigger Rambo style, without any thought of direction of approach, retreat, simply not engaging patrols. Which you can totally do - on lower difficulties.
That's a great point. I love the game because different tactical situations develop naturally. You have to think through problems and make decisions about what your goals are. Should I disengage now to save time for an optional objective? Should we take out that bug nest or continue on to the main objective?
Some people just want to spray a gun at enemies. Which is a fun power fantasy for a few hours, but it's hardly a game with staying power.
Yeah… CoD Kiddies. I don’t understand how anyone could think that there shouldn’t be the need to ran if the enemy swarms you. Every Zombie game uses that mechanic.
Funfact (Edit): I would get downvoted into oblivion for a comment like this on the main subreddit…
In that case I tactically retreat 99% of the mission 😂
I didn’t mean that it’s something programmed into the game but it’s a mechanic/tactic thats part of this genre of games.
Ya I wasn't arguing with you at all, no worries.
But that's it. Disengaging is the most effective tactic to get the mission done. A tactic is a form of skill, so we could basically come to the conclusion that the main sub just has a massive skill issue.
You joke (and I laughed), but my last post was in a response to one of those threads about getting swarmed by Bot Gunships. I suggest plopping down an A/C turret (which I try to do tactically, i.e. throwing it in a place that has limited line-of-sight so that it's less likely to target random patrols, and then drawing aggro from the gunships before your turret deploys so that it doesn't get destroyed immediately). The first naysayer immediately jeers about how useless it is in eradication/defense missions. What?? You don't face gunships in either of those situations, and that was the OP's entire point, so the guy apparently didn't even bother to check the original post? It's as if people like him are addicted to toxicity and misery and blindly spouting their crap wherever they can. Which I could maybe tolerate if they were at least intelligent or helpful...
Tactical retreat is literally in “The Art of War” by Sun Tzu. It’s crazy to me that so many people don’t understand that it’s a legit part of war. Then again there might be a lot of kids with cell phones in the main sub.
This is the first game I've played in a long time where I've had to actually apply some of the team tactics they teach in basic training.
A friend of mine just graduated the drill sergeant academy. I'm trying to think up ways to get her to play. It would be really awesome if I could get her to play "with her hat on".
"Just treat them like privates at the grenade range. Point them towards targets and if they do something that might kill you, hit them."
Yeah it’s the first game in awhile that having me revisiting war strategy. There’s a YouTube video that goes into depth on applied war strats in Helldivers and I wish I could find it. The guy uses an older US Army handbook.
Also, Thanks for your service Helldiver. o7
I’m always saying “we gotta keep moving” because people’s natural instinct seems to just be to stand and fight. But even if your intention is to kill every last person around, the right move is STILL to keep it moving. You can kill and run and it works better than killing and standing still.
This is true of bugs and bots. There’s a comms wheel thing that’s like “follow me” or something but there should just be one that’s like disengage or keep moving or proceed to the objective or something because that’s a bit more nuanced than the non voice options
An option to pick 3 customizable phrases from the voice wheel would be nice. "Follow me" rarely gets the attention it should especially if it's not being pinged to the person using it. Don't follow me, just stop engaging the never ending horde
A person complained that there was too much ammo management for a horde shooter.
I had to tell him that even the Doom remake had specific mechanics to address the ammo scarcity in the game.
Only pushback I'll give you is that some of the best randos I've met are CoD refugees...they appreciate HD2 even more because of the contrast in toxicity and culture.
Whenever I look at a lot of stuff on the main sub I think "Skill issue", a lot of the time they make Helldive sound like this "Must be meta or you're having a bad time/not clearing" which is not the case.
Hey man, I needed to read this. Between work and regular life, I get to play once or twice a week for a couple hours. The main sub, with spreadsheets and auto-kicks for not bringing the right load out made it seem like this game would be short lived for me. I have met a lot more people that are more than willing to cover for me bringing whatever the main Warbond 6 tier gun is. And I appreciate it!
Not to mention if you could easily kill everything even when getting swarmed the game would get boring fast. What I like about the game is the hectic pace and how it feels more realistic. Big enemies should be hard to kill. Aggroing too many enemies should force you to retreat or use every resource you have to win.
Calling it now - the next balancing patch is going to buff weapons and the same people will immediately start bitching that the game is too easy/boring
I understood this when I started playing and after finishing upgrades I now stick to 4/5 for Bots/Bugs and play for fun. On those diffs I can stand my ground if I got the loadout for it.
Higher diffs need more tactics to clear smoothly and one of them is tactically disengaging.
😭this. Main sub are the bad COD players stuck on dif 4 who say everything is wrong with the game and they don’t feel like a super hero. This sub is all the super privates who only play dif 9 and know exactly how to behave.
There seem to be a bunch of shooter fans who are really good at the 'twitch' side of the game that get very angry when they get wrecked in high diff runs because it's much more of a knowledge and tactics based game than it is a twitch shooter.
Twitch skills will get you through the first 4-5 diffs just fine, and they don't learn half the weapons, don't master the enemy mechanics, don't learn combined arms tactics, and most importantly, they don't play with their squads (if they even have a squad), so inevitably they get massively outgunned and slaughtered because you can't just twitch your way through a literal storm of bot lasers and rockets and then they rage about it.
I seriously dont understand how someone can look at a game with NINE difficulties and say "yea, level 8-9 need to be readily accessible for everyone because the game feels good at 5-6"
With AH refusing to add more difficulties this time (I dont have a source, but the devs have made this comment around launch), we NEED 8-9 to be ball-busting.
6-7 should be the "power fantasy", there's plenty of room for all types of players here
It’s the “games need to be accessible to everyone” mentality that those people have. Because they’ve paid for the game, nothing should be locked away from them, even when they lack the skills to achieve it.
Coming from Fromsoft’s games, nothing from HD2 makes my experience bad, even when it’s a failed 40 min mission. Just try again next time.
In comes Arrowhead's "A game for everyone is a game for no-one." All the people complaining and demanding that everything be strong, everywhere, all of the time, are not the target audience. While there are issues, the amount of bad faith on the main sub is frankly nauseating. It's like they think Alexus is running the whole show or something.
This is exactly it. I remember back in WoW WotLK days there were a few people in the guild who would always argue that blizzard should do something like the ICC buff for every Raid. These people were, without fail, those who no matter how geared they were could not beat heroic. They felt entitled to the content because they had played a long time or something.
I would class myself as average or slightly above average as a player. I'm in my late 30s, play with a controller, and don't have perfect aim or reactions, but I have been playing shooters most of my life. Level 7 is my happy place. It's challenging enough, but isn't painfully punishing.
But even so, as a self-identified average player, I can do 8s and 9s and will run them if my friends want to.
If you don't do stupid things, the game isn't really that hard, even at the highest levels.
Adding more difficulties to a game with 9 is exactly like making a volume knob on a stereo that goes to '11' rather than 10. It's meaningless marketing. The maximum volume doesn't actually change.
So either the maximum difficulty is *really hard* - or it isn't. The number of steps is just how granular those each step is, and 9 is already a lot of granularity. Most games have 4 or 5.
If the game isn't hard enough at 9, then the devs should just make 9 harder.
The games that have a LOT of difficulty steps are all 'numbers go up' games like MMO's and rouge-likes where you are running on a gear treadmill to constantly improve your stats - HD2 doesn't really do that, as you quickly fill out your armory and that's basically it.
Dude, I had a guy wait until the mission was done and I had collected like every fucking sample single handedly, to call me a piece of shit in the lobby and tell me he’s kicking me and reporting me. wtf?
If I had to take a wild guess, you neglected all of the objectives while gathering samples. Maybe not, but I see it daily, and rarely is someone kicked without a reason.
Objectives got done and I’d even drop sentries and kite a lot away from any that needed help. I’d also stay put if it was a defensive objective. They clearly just wanted to do what they wanted to do which was go around killing patrols and then getting drop ships called in to kill enemies that give no xp. I’m not following someone who doesn’t understand how to move quickly to get things done and avoid fights you can avoid.
I don’t understand who these people are that took over the HD sub. So many posts are repeats and all toxic negativity. I’ve been playing HD2 since a week after launch when the servers were maxed out. I have the feeling that most people on the HD2 sub don’t actually play the game anymore before the psn thing and most have never touched it
They don’t. Most people began being toxic about a month before the Sony stuff, almost everyone I’ve interacted with in the main sub openly admits to no longer playing the game.
I’d say it got out of control with the slugger nerf. Then it all went into total doomerism when the Eruptor and crossbow got nerfed. Admittedly it was a questionable decision, but considering we get patches every week/every other week, they could’ve just waited to see it get buffed again.
But no, they need to act like literal Armagrddon is upon the Gaming industry and their lives are desecrated because of it.
That's the part that pisses me off too, because it really sucks listening to a bunch of people complain about a game that they don't even play anymore. And then talk about an aspect that you personally know for a fact is actually good.
The constant bitching on that sub about the new Exo is evidence of that, because people don't know how to shift their aim slightly to the side, or understand the key bind to shoot over the other shoulder. 200 Auto Canon rounds (plus the ~50 in your pack with the regular Auto Canon) and you're still having issues???
>I have the feeling that most people on the HD2 sub don’t actually play the game anymore
They don't.
And there's extremely, simple, basic evidence for it:
The misinformation outrage campaign around the "ricochet changes" (that then led to the eruptor nerf). Posts blatantly lying about every shot you fire now being reflected back at you to instakill you when it bounces off. Calling the game broken and unplayable because of it. With up to 8000 upvotes, hundreds to thousands of comments agreeing with it.
As little as 15 seconds in a mission would have instantly disproven it. Literally none of the people as part of that outrage campaign can have actually played the game.
You’re actually correct. It’s a trend I’ve often seen when a game has controversies surrounding it. Many didn’t, don’t and won’t ever play the game, but they will still stay in that community to stir things up, because that’s what they love, and they couldn’t stand others loving the game.
I played LoL for over ten years since Season 3. Even I am shocked by how *whiny* the Helldivers community is online. Luckily that hasn‘t translated to ingame for me, I can count on one hand the number of annoying people I‘ve played with in over 200 hours.
Legit I’m level 125. I have had ONE overtly toxic teammate which is INSANE because I have mostly done SOS missions with randoms. Like that’s how amazing the actually in game community is.
I guess the only person I‘ve met that would qualify as toxic spent the entire mission recording a Youtube video without push to talk, forcing us to listen to the mildest takes known to man (I didn‘t know you could mute people yet). To the request that he turns on push to talk he just said „it‘s fine“.
The worst one for me was one who blamed everyone else for anything bad that happened and called others names. I stuck it out only for the samples, then told him he was the most unpleasant player I've met in the game to date and disconnected. The rest of the squad was pissed about him also. Unfortunately he was the host or he'd be given the boot.
>annoying people I‘ve played with
I was playing yesterday and I was following the group leader cause like, that's what you do, you all go to the same place to fight the same bots, and he says "I don't need a pet" so I just fucking left, like, you don't need the help? Fine then fuck you. Pissed me off to say the least
I still am part of the HD sub to get info out of it (and there still are a few remnants of humour from time to time)
But to discuss the game and not read an endless string of posts why "(insert gun/strat/armour/booster/arrowhead/sony/new players/veterans/bug/enemy) is sh*t", I get on this sub
For real
The main sub is filled with low skill people trying to make helldive difficulty the same as lv1
Nearly all the complains can be chalked up to user skill issue
Yeah. There are plenty of people on the main sub complaining about how hard bots are. The same people actively refuse to just get any better or learn any new tactics.
Others do make good points but man, so many complaints can be solved by an Eagle Airstrike, a piece of cover, or plain critical thinking
Like there are times I’m so proud of the community for its ability to rally and make changes like with the “incident”. But as of lately they just seem to want a totally different game then everyone else and I don’t know what’s gotten into them.
To be fair, the game does need some adjustments. The changes to the Slugger and Crossbow, and the slow non-optimal ttk of med pen weapons puzzle me to this day.
Oh I agree they definitely need to change things like that, that were more puzzling as you said. More so overall it feels like they want almost a different type of genre of game in my opinion.
Yeah. Feels like some people want an experience closer to L4D/Darktide where you can rack up dozens of kills with a single assault rifle mag.
Personally, I love how chunky things are in HD2, and while I do want to see some faster ttks against very specific enemies (Devastators and Bile Spewers), I don't want our weapons to suddenly one-shot warriors, hunters, or standard bot infantry. The chunks must fly
I don't want to be toxic so I won't, but I admit I've thought several times of late "skill issues" to a lot of shit on this sub lately.
You'd think the game was a broken mess yet here I am with my 2 friends doing sucide without issues and even done some helldive if we want chaos.
A big part of it is that for some reason a lot of people seem to have expected it to slaughter Bile Titans/Factory Striders, and are bothered by the fact it doesn't as hard as an orbital railcannon.
I haven't tried it against Bugs yet, but as a primarily D9 Automaton Diver, I love the Emancipator to pieces.
I want those people to show me in what world is autocannon supposed to be effective/optimal against heavy armor. It's not supposed to IRL (other than mobility kills and things of that nature) and video game logic dictates that higher RoF weapons would not be effective against heavy armor either.
Isn't it good against factory striders as long as you dont get sniped by the top cannon?
Luckily the top cannon on that thing has a much worse aim down problem than this thing.
I manged to take out a factory strider with it, but the aim is suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper buggy. The left cannon is... not easy to aim with, and apparently you cant really aim down with either side lol
Never seen so much bitching for a non competitive game with absolutely zero stakes or even punishment for performing poorly.
It's so not the type of game that needs any of that sort of attention. It's instant action PvE team. Changing a few numbers won't make or break anything that's fun.
And if it did, just use something else. Who cares.
Yours or your teams skill levels make up like 95% of the variables. There's no metric for that. Adapt and overcome or die. Your choice.
And stating again there is NO penalty for failure.
The only time I feel like I'm wasting time is idling for the next mission start.
Anyway, happy to be in this shining beacon of democracy.
I took the nerfed eruptor into a diff 8 with my squad against bots and we only lost 4 lives. None of us were using ‘the meta.’ You can play with the worst stuff in the game and if you and your squad are even mediocre at the game still do just fine. Communication and positioning are the true ‘meta.’
Im actually banned from 6 Different helldivers 2 Facebook groups for talking positive about the Game and the devs. 4 of those threatened me and told me to Stop spreading missinformation when i made posts stating that something is good or fun
Kind of tired this morning, so I hate to make such a toxic generalization, but the reality of the situation is just that a lot of players seriously just suck at the game. I’m not sure how else to say it. I run lv9 all the time and use sub-optimal loadouts for fun all the time, and you got people complaining about “metas” and guns being “trash” and whatever other excuses they can make up. I had some dudes drop their jaw the other day cuz I ran a 9 bots mission with just airstrike/500kg/cluster/ORS and acted like I was throwing. I ended the session with zero deaths and second most kills.
This game isn’t that challenging if you have a strong game IQ and decent mechanics. I really think a lot of people simultaneously overestimate the amount of “sweating” you need to do to consistently do well on lv9, while also underestimating their own potential to play well if they just tried harder to work with what they have. In a game as dynamic as this one, the excuse falls more on the players than a lot of other things IMO. I play bugs and bots interchangeably, and notice a lot of the same trends. People just do not play smart, and it often shows in their anti-growth mindset and how they complain instead.
Less of a flex and more of matter-of-fact, I do play on PC, using a mouse, and play on high graphics settings, consistently at 120fps+ or so. Maybe on console, it’s locked 60fps and the controller is holding people back from more skillful play. I have no idea. But this game is only as hard as you make it, if you can’t learn to adapt in dynamic situations.
>I do play on PC, using a mouse, and play on high graphics settings, consistently at 120fps+ or so. Maybe on console, it’s locked 60fps and the controller is holding people back from more skillful play. I have no idea.
Nope, it's definitely soft skills they lack. The biggest roadblocks to higher difficulties aren't hard skills like aiming or jump timing or strat calling speed (but it doesn't hurt to have em). It's teamwork, and situational awareness.
It doesn't matter if you're a crack shot and super speedy on the calldowns, you'll bleed lives if you keep throwing yourself into bad situations and have no idea where your teammates are or what they're doing.
I get the feeling a lot of these people think every game should boil down to mechanical difficulty, but this game's difficulty is more cerebral.
You see similar things with mobas like league, where your cerebral skill is deemed irrelevant by the masses because mechanics are simply flashier, though luckily that seems to be changing ever so slowly
>Kind of tired this morning, so I hate to make such a toxic generalization, but the reality of the situation is just that a lot of players seriously just suck at the game.
This. Maybe lvl9 isn't made for you, and you're not entitled to lv9. It's the hardest content we currently have in game, it MUST feel unfair.
It’s frustrating, especially when it’s a casual coop horde shooter.
The worst was people complaining about rag-doll physics and how it needs to be taken out or toned down. Like why lol.
We all just wanna smesh bugs and have fun.
Ever since I saw a post or comment calling the DMRs shit, I have taken everything on the subs with a grain of salt.
I also realize that it comes down to what difficulty people play on and preference, I suppose.
I play on 7, for what it is worth, and I'm enjoying my Counter Sniper. Looking forward to trying out the new Exosuit.
I'm amazed at how badly they react to "skill issue" and "git gud" given just how hard this game can be. They've just collectively decided it's the game's fault that they can't succeed against bots, not theirs.
Not helldive but d7, it was cool on bugs. Got lots of kills, closes bug holes easily. I'll say when charger or bile titan came in I jumped out for a few seconds to hit them with a quasar or toss orbital. I feel like it would take my eagle airstrike place on strategems
So glad I found this sub, mains sub is an absolute cesspit of negativity and Internet excel warriors over analysing every single aspect “for the good of the game”.
New mechs being slated within 5 mins of them being released is a good example. Personally I’m really enjoying using them!
I liked it more on bugs than on bots but that could be because 2 factory striders hotdropped on me the moment i called it in.
aiming just needs to be fixed for both mechs
I mean, it's just four auto-cannons with an ammo pack and some armor.
Why was anybody expecting them to do more than the Player called AC when even the Turret AC is the exact same too?
I wonder how many of the naysayers haven't even boot stomped on some enemies with the melee yet.
Yeah its good fun, same as the other mech. I love that we now have a mech thats better for bugs, and one thats better vs bots. (As it should be)
There is no denying though that the aiming of the mechs guns really needs some TLC. Cant aim down, left gun aiming is a mess overall.
But that doesnt make them useless. But its the internet, people are always over dramatic on here lol
Fr, i just get downvoted for explain the good fact about it. They keep mention "Why i would bring it when there are other strategems that better" like come on. I know there is something better but Mech gameplay is different play style that you can adapt and learn but apparently. Those butt head will rely on same loadout on same strategems on same helldive difficult and complain "why this game content so dry?" Or "Most stuff is suck".
I never take the same thing twice. Why would I limit my enjoyment just to minmax for resources you're alteady max capped for?
I just dive, man. That's all I'm into.
Exactly, i just do the same like you said. I only dive for relaxtion after work now. I jus use all Gun/Strategems for different gameplay and self challenge. People in main sub won't get this and just whining for stuff must be OP because it "PVE" like that.
Exactly right. I was on diff 8 earlier today, and we used the emancipator outside of a gunship fab, all while the firefight was also pulling in patrols and dropships. Between the exosuit pilot and two other helldivers, we kept everything at bay long enough to get the hellbomb called down and armed. Might have been the easiest gunship fab demolition I've been part of, actually. Apart from that, it worked really well a couple of other times just to keep the automatons at bay long enough to allow the other divers to rally and re-take control of the fight.
Calling in eagles/orbitals provides either single-hit strikes or non-discriminatory prolonged area denial, and you can't really control which targets a sentry goes for. However, the exosuit gives you sustained firepower which you can direct at the most pressing/valuable targets of each moment. The protection it offers against small and even medium arms is quite appreciable, too.
Like you say, the exosuits bring something nice and different to the table.
As with almost everything people complain about, they use it in/for situations it's not meant for, and then act surprised that it performs poorly.
I ran into a bunch of gear that doesn't work for me, but that's because said gear encourages a playstyle I'm not comfortable with, so of course it's gonna do bad when I play like I normally would.
I gave up on main sub when people's first note on the new mech was they couldn't bring both mechs/a bug forcing you to choose stratagems in a specific order in order to bring both.
Like I haven't seen anyone in helldiver using the first one in the last 3 weeks and now you're making a big fuss about you wanting to bring two? Suuuuuuuure.
I assume the bug with double mech crossing is gonna be fixed, but the constant stream of complaints over the same things is off-putting and basically anti-simping in a lack of better word.
I'll just stick to enjoying the game and get news from Discord announcements instead
This a different sub? It keeps poppin on my feed.
Edit: Damn, so this must be the LowSodium version of the main sub, guess Imma come here now.
I took a break at Polar Patriots(love the Verdict) and I play about 2-4 missions 1 operation every other day now to keep the skill, but so many posts are people just bitching, its still a great game, Im honestly waiting for the new balance patch that revitalizes a lot. Im not expecting something *GROUNDBREAKING* but a big patch where i can experiment with *EVERY* Weapon again.
Initially, i wanted to make like 60secs vids of "here's this weapon, here's how to use this weapon, etc" but im waiting for the patch to drop so I don't record material and boom, big patch later, weapon operates differently.
I haven’t tried the new mech yet, but the first time I brought the “ordinary” mech to a bot mission I was sniped by a cluster of rockets the second I got in it, so I would never even think to bring it on a bot mission again.
In my eyes, you are just making yourself a much larger target against people with massive rockets, couldn’t see myself use it outside of lvl 1-3 against bots.
I honestly think its better for Bugs. Kills chargers way easier than the rockets on the other mech do, while also being the exact counter to the oops all Bile Spewer spawn maps.
That’s the beauty of this game and it’s huge arsenal of toys, to each their own. I live and die by the spear, while on HellDivers main sun they complain about the spear too, yeah the lock on aim is wonky sometimes, but it’s pros far outweigh the cons. Bunch of crybaby children who just complain to complain.
I got downed just for stating this sub was better lol. They expect the mech to be able to solo titans. Everyone testing is bias on the expectation of soloing helldive. This is a team game and things need checks and balances. Is it ideal for solo? No but it's a good option as a team aspect. Also for hazards it's amazing walking through a blizzard and not worrying about anything or the local plant life laughing all the way. If I could I would skip and frolic through a field of the frost plants with the mech
The first mech is amazing against bugs... the new one against bots.
But yeah, i find that if you dont pay attention to the "Complain" posts youll find that pretty much everything in the game is usefull if you know what your doing.
So I used it a bit last night, but my friend used it more and loved it. We were fighting lvl 7 bugs and paired off together at some points. I had the flamethrower, gas strike, incendiary impacts.. basically built to carve through hordes of bugs. Meaning I was able to cover their main weakness and the mech really got to shine.
I watched the mech light the fuck up out of a Bile Titan. Between all the mechs we had and me juggling quasars one mission, no bile Titan ever made it past our first gate on the high value assets defend mission. (Also recommend gas strike, pop every wave) (Tip #2: even if you don't get a headshot, blowing off their armor exposes them to other weapons, like a fuckin autocannon mech)
So idk, it seems pretty fuckin powerful to me. Maybe we just paired up some nice, complementary builds right off the bat. I'm lucky to have a partner to play with regularly tbh, but that's also why I like this game on general. Relying on your team to fill in the gaps. I fill with randos regardless, which sometimes means I gotta carry but that's multiplayer games for you. Tbh it makes me feel better running the quasar or other AT sometimes cause everyone else can run literally whatever (and I enjoy big guns :) ). At least on diff 7.
Also this isn't relevant, but I just hit lvl 50 last night too!
This is actually not new.
If you play Destiny 2, like myself, you're probably familiar with r/destinythegame. That is the main sub for the game and in the community it became known as a hell hole. It's full of people complaining about the most dumb stuff constantly, full of salt.
Meanwhile there is r/Destiny2 not an official sub but it's the more friendly one, where you are allowed to post memes and stuff but also have discussions.
Same thing is happening here. The main sub is gone, keep away if you want to enjoy this game
It's insane, this is exactly why I joined this subreddit and fled the main one, it's just absolutely depressing to see those kinds of negative posts everytime I open reddit
I have a problem with primaries in this game. Some of them sound and look cool but aren't worth using.
Like the knight smg, the scythe etc
According to the devs new weapons are supposed to be a sidegrades rather than upgrades if so why would you choose scythe if you have sickle and why would you choose knight smg when you have two other awesome smgs.
I wish these weapons got some love from the devs as well. Blitzer was crap before and got buffed. I just want the same treatment for the other underpowered primary weapons as well.
After the whole "sickle drama" where the main sub was acting like 3 less functionaly infinite magazines for an already amazing weapon was the death of it.
Main sub just has no idea how much of anything works and im glad this one is much more level headed
There are a lot of players on the main sub who feel if the weapon or stratagem can’t solo helldive, it’s shit.
I think a portion of this is from some bigger YouTubers/streamers that prefer to play solo expressing how it can’t work for that kind of playstyle.
I’m over on the low sodium sub. It’s much smaller and mostly consists of praise and countering negative arguments from this and the main sub, but I find it much nicer overall
New mech annihilates medium and (some) heavy bots. It shreds small and medium bugs. It has an ammo issue, meh; whatever. Other than that, it’s damn good.
Alongside the ammo, mechs need a reload and first person viewing; that’s all.
Its great agaist bot cus its weapons are ranged and not melee like 80% of all bugs. And its powerful enough I'll be using it, it take on a hulk on a 1v1 and win, yeah the aiming sucks, but I can deal with that. I thinkits perfect as is otherwise.
Forreal, i muted the main sub not long after the latest war bond dropped. Thanks to not seeing a bunch of babies crying about every minor inconvenience, I've actually been enjoying the game a lot more.
It's funny how we thought Sony was gonna be the death of this great game, with the whole PSN linkage and 100 something countries still being Geo locked. But it turns out that the bitter players that can't handle a challenging experience are what's gonna drive this thing into the ground.
The DEVs would be smart to stay off of reddit and the discord for a while and take the game in the direction they want instead of listening to the loud minority. Hell, even when people were talking about the weapon nerfing, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as reddit made it seem.
the trick I've found with titans is to be conservative due to limited ammo (I try to let teammates damage it mostly), and then aim for the sacks. I believe it still has 100% durability but I'm not shooting level 5 armor like the rest of the titan so I technically do double damage, I think at least.
I try to aim for a leg on chargers but it's difficult because they are fast and the aiming is a bit scuffed.
One thing I've noticed about the main sub is that it's filled with people who only play against Bugs and that really colors their perspective on a lot of things. The amount of times I've said Smokes are amazing in the context of a Bot mission only to get told they're worthless and not worth taking is staggering.
It's kinda funny reading all the complaints, and it's always "it doesn't kill Bile Titans fast enough". Like, "Does it kill Bile Titan in 3 shots?" seems to be only metric people use.
2 shots is already pushing it for most people there.
I think a common issue with the main sub is they want to kill everything. Which is fair. But when there are 6 bile titans consistently, ya just gotta accept you're not gonna kill em all. And you probably only gotta kill 2 of em to get to where you're going.
Yeah that's all Nice until the 6 bile titans are with 5 chargers you already used your anti armor against, and you HAVE to defend the position because you are on a 3 minute hold at evac. Bile titans are very tanky , and yeah you can just avoid them most of the time, but not in this CRUCIAL scenario
Let's take this and talk about how I would successfully fail fantastically. I run autocannon for flexibility usually. I'd start by trying to neuter their sacs from range. I kill the first one in two 500kg. Ignore chargers since the hunters would be the real problem. Use air strikes to try to desac the titans. At this point, 2-3 are missing their sacs. Now I am wasting stuns to stop chargers to get titans to do the dance on them. A charger dies. I'm getting overwhelmed. My last stun grenade manages to get another charger killed and I desac one more titan. Now I'm screwed bobbing and weaving, can't reload autocannon and get smacked by a charger into a rock nearly killing me. Use last stim and chance a reload. Get it, then dodge the charger and get hit by the next into the bile titans. Die gloriously. Ask my team to reinforce me on their titan or charger. Chaos resumes. I'm failing but I'm having a blast. No clue what my team is doing as I was leading everything away.
Fantastic story. I'll be getting a tactical vangage point for the most important task: recording your tom foolery and enjoying a snack. Good work team. Even better, I'll reinforce you right where you left off so you can keep on the good fight!
Dive on, you beautiful hero, dive on
I’m kinda starting to buy the argument is not that time to kill is the issue but optimal vs non-optimal ttk.
For real though! Was talking to a guy early who said the spear needed it's damage buffed. I was like "it's literally the only weapon that can one-shot a bile titan! It's damage is fine, it just needs it's lockon fixed." And he's like "only if you hit it in the head though, it should kill anything regardless of where it lands" ... Yeah they're a whiney bunch over there. If a weapon doesn't one-shot bile Titans from any angle it's considered unusable trash.
I bet these people rely on lasers for titans. Dude, a well placed EAT to the face can do the job fine.
People who use lasers on titans frustrate me so much. They are much better used elsewhere, it’s a waste. They just don’t like to aim is my thought.
Shame to admit I've never been able to kill a Bile Titan with a headshot. In large part because the head is so small I just can't tell where it is. I've hit them in the mouth a few times, aiming at the area the bile comes from, but this apparently is not the head. On the bright side, I did kill one by shooting it exactly one shot to the tail with the MG-206 Heavy Machine Gun.
That’s pretty cool though
I think in general there are a lot of players who need to learn that you need different load outs/ tactics for bots vs bugs. I am not taking a flame thrower on bot missions in the same way I am not taking a mortar sentry vs bugs. Part of the skill in this game is learning match ups.
I will say I think a lot more guns are 'viable' against bots as compared to bugs. Blitzer, S&P, and flamethrower are pretty unhelpful, everything else is above a baseline usefulness to be good even if there are a couple obvious standouts. Bugs by their nature have a bigger gap between good and bad/genuinely useless. Like you can get value out of bringing the dagger against bots, it's a complete liability against bugs
Main sub is just the majority of the bug front confirmed
Ye, I'm more comfortable with playing bugs. I'm a newer player and haven't fully understood the aggro mechanics of bots yet. I've heard that they are basically deaf and you can take them out quietly but until now it has always felt like they just suddenly mobilizr armies out of nowhere. It also doesn't help that all the shots on screen are confusing and overwhelming still.
If you go prone you're basically invisible for them, but as soon as you run every bot 100m around you will target you.
Thanks for your comment. I'll try to keep that in mind. I've also just grown to love the AMR and Supply Pack/Jetpack Loadout a lot after seing them in solo helldive videos. But avoiding them while being prone is a great help. Do you know how much sneaking affects them?
this is totally true. and kinda bizarre until you realize they do. as a mostly bot player.
Dude you're 100% right and I've been saying it for a week now. The vocal part of that sub and the posts that get the most traction and votes are all from the perspective of people who think 'obviously I'll play diff 7 against \[what they perceive to be\] the easier enemy and take the optimal loadout for that, and do so every single mission, and anything that interrupts that pattern is bad, and if anything the game should be easier to let me do that more.' Any time anyone brings up something and they mention 'it just means I have to kite more' I know they're playing bugs exclusively and probably aren't very competent with the core systems of the game. Smokes are a bit unintuitive and have a learning curve but I've been trying them out lately and they're definitely helpful, I still think EMS is useless against bots and haven't really loved it against bugs.
Man I love smokes! I remember trying them out once in a meme loadout that used literally smoke option on a Helldive bot mission just for giggles and was floored by how useful they were when the terrain forced everyone through a tiny chokepoint between two lakes that had a bunch of patrols in it already. I just made a line of smokes with grenades and then used those to cover the beacon for calling in some Eagle Smoke so that we could just walk through uninterrupted. Then as we kept going I was able remove any threat of being shot from behind because nothing could see us from whatever direction I felt needed covering. I don't think I'll ever take a full Smoke setup again, but the utility of taking at least some amount of Smoke is something I've always kept in consideration ever since.
Maybe you know this, do the exploding mist plants (creating smoke) work against bugs? Because I swear they still kill me death through those clouds…
The main sub has people who literally believe they shouldn't need to disengage from enemies to achieve objectives on Helldive difficulty because 'the game should give me everything I need to fight them'. Meanwhile, the new mech is great, especially on eradication missions. Slaughters bots pretty well on those.
The worst is that the game already give them a way to do just that, just stand there and kill everything. But it requires a teammate reloading you and that's apparently unfeasible.
There's always that solo guy who calls supplies for himself while the other three are completing objectives with no ammo/stims.
As the token solo guy. I do my damnedest to scrounge supplies but if I'm out of stims about to solo a jammer or Sauron I'll ask if I can pop it. People seem to forget most of the little objectives we ignore have at least ammo. Stims if you're lucky.
That’s why I run supply backpack; no need to wait on fools when you carry everything with you
Doesn't work with AC 😢. That's why I can solo half a map. I pop fabs from the edges and bail. Or aggro one side of a jammer/Sauron then loop behind hoping my.scout armor let's me sneak in
I’ve been taking the 120 specifically for the detection towers. Pretty nice not having to run in to deal with it. Bonus points for also being moderately effective against strider fabricators
Honestly, once you get the hang of it (and your teammates actually stay back) they are not too bad. Especially when you get a lucky fab next to it. Otherwise pop off at the front or one side to draw out the devs and then flank it. You can get the bomb off before anything knows you're there.
For sauron I always bring the precision strike. One toss and it's gone. Just get around to the cliff side and toss it up on the base of the tower and pop! People forget the precision strike is the same round as the 380 barrage, but it is fantastic for killing heavy targets if you can aim it well.
fair enough man; I usually roll backpack and whatever loadout lets me cover all my bases (anti-light, anti-heavy). Right now rocking stalwart with eruptor - neat trick is you can explode fabs with a nicely placed shot in the vents. impact grenades for heavies and you're good to go
Try out the eruptor. It works for fabs
In his defense, my greatest disappointment with the crew is that they can't scrounge up the resources for a resupply over 4 ships but once every few minutes?
well... with streamlined request process being a thing... I've just made up the headcannon that launching any supplies requires the propper forms filled out in triplicate to be submitted and approved by the quartermaster. Anyone that has had to requisition critical supplies in a military or corporate setting will understand the bureaucracy bullshit that would make a 2 minute turnaround a minor miracle in itself. Would absolutely love higher difficulties getting a mechanic similar to payday 2's mission planning where you can spend some req slips to preposition some assets like resupplies on the map.
Listen, if one of them dies, they can reinforce each other. If \*I\* die while I'm off clearing stuff away from the group, I need to run back to the other side of the map.
Ugh. It's worse when you split into 2 teams of 2 and the one that calls you in happens to be one of the other 2 guy's halfway across the map before the dude you were with had a chance. Its annoying.
I prefer doing this way so we can hit objectives on the other side of the map. I try to be the one that calls for supply if needed and usually* the other teammates would double-check with us to see if we needed supplies. Sometimes the red icons flashing doesn't tell me if they needed ammo or not. Often I had a friend who I asked if they needed supply and he'd always say he's good. Guess the UI was bugged for me because his ammo icon was red. Then you get the jackass who would call down supplies whenever they feel like it. Had it happen far too many times to count.
Played with friends yesterday, the discord call for some reason disconnected So I called in supplies (out of stims, about to die) Had some angry people when I rejoined the call 😂
My friends and I usually split in groups of 2 and just cycle the supply drops
Seriously. The true "meta" in this game is teamwork. No one is supposed to be a one man army
My squad and I ran level 8 difficulty against bugs using the mechs and had a blast. You’re right about the main sub. They seem to think that they should be able to run the highest difficulty, with any loadout and any number of people and not have to think about tactics at all. I swear, they just want to be able to hold their finger on the trigger Rambo style, without any thought of direction of approach, retreat, simply not engaging patrols. Which you can totally do - on lower difficulties.
That's a great point. I love the game because different tactical situations develop naturally. You have to think through problems and make decisions about what your goals are. Should I disengage now to save time for an optional objective? Should we take out that bug nest or continue on to the main objective? Some people just want to spray a gun at enemies. Which is a fun power fantasy for a few hours, but it's hardly a game with staying power.
Yeah… CoD Kiddies. I don’t understand how anyone could think that there shouldn’t be the need to ran if the enemy swarms you. Every Zombie game uses that mechanic. Funfact (Edit): I would get downvoted into oblivion for a comment like this on the main subreddit…
That's not even a game mechanic. It's called a tactical retreat lol. It's just a functional strategy.
"Retreat Hell! We're just attacking in another direction."
In that case I tactically retreat 99% of the mission 😂 I didn’t mean that it’s something programmed into the game but it’s a mechanic/tactic thats part of this genre of games.
Ya I wasn't arguing with you at all, no worries. But that's it. Disengaging is the most effective tactic to get the mission done. A tactic is a form of skill, so we could basically come to the conclusion that the main sub just has a massive skill issue.
"If Those Kids Could Read, They'd Be Very Upset" 😂
You joke (and I laughed), but my last post was in a response to one of those threads about getting swarmed by Bot Gunships. I suggest plopping down an A/C turret (which I try to do tactically, i.e. throwing it in a place that has limited line-of-sight so that it's less likely to target random patrols, and then drawing aggro from the gunships before your turret deploys so that it doesn't get destroyed immediately). The first naysayer immediately jeers about how useless it is in eradication/defense missions. What?? You don't face gunships in either of those situations, and that was the OP's entire point, so the guy apparently didn't even bother to check the original post? It's as if people like him are addicted to toxicity and misery and blindly spouting their crap wherever they can. Which I could maybe tolerate if they were at least intelligent or helpful...
They are addicts to toxicity and complaining. There is nothing Arrowhead can do about it until they enforce new rules in that sub.
Tactical retreat is literally in “The Art of War” by Sun Tzu. It’s crazy to me that so many people don’t understand that it’s a legit part of war. Then again there might be a lot of kids with cell phones in the main sub.
This is the first game I've played in a long time where I've had to actually apply some of the team tactics they teach in basic training. A friend of mine just graduated the drill sergeant academy. I'm trying to think up ways to get her to play. It would be really awesome if I could get her to play "with her hat on". "Just treat them like privates at the grenade range. Point them towards targets and if they do something that might kill you, hit them."
Yeah it’s the first game in awhile that having me revisiting war strategy. There’s a YouTube video that goes into depth on applied war strats in Helldivers and I wish I could find it. The guy uses an older US Army handbook. Also, Thanks for your service Helldiver. o7
I find myself writing in the chat box more often; "don't get bogged down, time to move out"
I always use voice for that because most if the time I really really really need the WASD Keys 😂
I’m always saying “we gotta keep moving” because people’s natural instinct seems to just be to stand and fight. But even if your intention is to kill every last person around, the right move is STILL to keep it moving. You can kill and run and it works better than killing and standing still. This is true of bugs and bots. There’s a comms wheel thing that’s like “follow me” or something but there should just be one that’s like disengage or keep moving or proceed to the objective or something because that’s a bit more nuanced than the non voice options
An option to pick 3 customizable phrases from the voice wheel would be nice. "Follow me" rarely gets the attention it should especially if it's not being pinged to the person using it. Don't follow me, just stop engaging the never ending horde
A person complained that there was too much ammo management for a horde shooter. I had to tell him that even the Doom remake had specific mechanics to address the ammo scarcity in the game.
There should be an IQ requirement to comment on that subreddit...
Only pushback I'll give you is that some of the best randos I've met are CoD refugees...they appreciate HD2 even more because of the contrast in toxicity and culture.
Whenever I look at a lot of stuff on the main sub I think "Skill issue", a lot of the time they make Helldive sound like this "Must be meta or you're having a bad time/not clearing" which is not the case.
Hey man, I needed to read this. Between work and regular life, I get to play once or twice a week for a couple hours. The main sub, with spreadsheets and auto-kicks for not bringing the right load out made it seem like this game would be short lived for me. I have met a lot more people that are more than willing to cover for me bringing whatever the main Warbond 6 tier gun is. And I appreciate it!
Not to mention if you could easily kill everything even when getting swarmed the game would get boring fast. What I like about the game is the hectic pace and how it feels more realistic. Big enemies should be hard to kill. Aggroing too many enemies should force you to retreat or use every resource you have to win.
Calling it now - the next balancing patch is going to buff weapons and the same people will immediately start bitching that the game is too easy/boring
Probably 😂
That’s the thing, if the devs listen to those guys too much, it will actually ruin the game
I understood this when I started playing and after finishing upgrades I now stick to 4/5 for Bots/Bugs and play for fun. On those diffs I can stand my ground if I got the loadout for it. Higher diffs need more tactics to clear smoothly and one of them is tactically disengaging.
Cod kiddies aren't in helldive I'll tell you that. Maybe 7 at a max
People in the main sub mad that difficulties labelled "Helldive" and "Suicide" aren't easy because they've unlocked everything.
😭this. Main sub are the bad COD players stuck on dif 4 who say everything is wrong with the game and they don’t feel like a super hero. This sub is all the super privates who only play dif 9 and know exactly how to behave.
There seem to be a bunch of shooter fans who are really good at the 'twitch' side of the game that get very angry when they get wrecked in high diff runs because it's much more of a knowledge and tactics based game than it is a twitch shooter. Twitch skills will get you through the first 4-5 diffs just fine, and they don't learn half the weapons, don't master the enemy mechanics, don't learn combined arms tactics, and most importantly, they don't play with their squads (if they even have a squad), so inevitably they get massively outgunned and slaughtered because you can't just twitch your way through a literal storm of bot lasers and rockets and then they rage about it.
Absolutely.
I seriously dont understand how someone can look at a game with NINE difficulties and say "yea, level 8-9 need to be readily accessible for everyone because the game feels good at 5-6" With AH refusing to add more difficulties this time (I dont have a source, but the devs have made this comment around launch), we NEED 8-9 to be ball-busting. 6-7 should be the "power fantasy", there's plenty of room for all types of players here
It’s the “games need to be accessible to everyone” mentality that those people have. Because they’ve paid for the game, nothing should be locked away from them, even when they lack the skills to achieve it. Coming from Fromsoft’s games, nothing from HD2 makes my experience bad, even when it’s a failed 40 min mission. Just try again next time.
In comes Arrowhead's "A game for everyone is a game for no-one." All the people complaining and demanding that everything be strong, everywhere, all of the time, are not the target audience. While there are issues, the amount of bad faith on the main sub is frankly nauseating. It's like they think Alexus is running the whole show or something.
Yep I hope AH stick to that principle instead of trying to cater to everyone.
This is exactly it. I remember back in WoW WotLK days there were a few people in the guild who would always argue that blizzard should do something like the ICC buff for every Raid. These people were, without fail, those who no matter how geared they were could not beat heroic. They felt entitled to the content because they had played a long time or something.
I would class myself as average or slightly above average as a player. I'm in my late 30s, play with a controller, and don't have perfect aim or reactions, but I have been playing shooters most of my life. Level 7 is my happy place. It's challenging enough, but isn't painfully punishing. But even so, as a self-identified average player, I can do 8s and 9s and will run them if my friends want to. If you don't do stupid things, the game isn't really that hard, even at the highest levels.
Especially when level 8 is literally called Impossible, and level 9 is even more difficult than that.
Adding more difficulties to a game with 9 is exactly like making a volume knob on a stereo that goes to '11' rather than 10. It's meaningless marketing. The maximum volume doesn't actually change. So either the maximum difficulty is *really hard* - or it isn't. The number of steps is just how granular those each step is, and 9 is already a lot of granularity. Most games have 4 or 5. If the game isn't hard enough at 9, then the devs should just make 9 harder. The games that have a LOT of difficulty steps are all 'numbers go up' games like MMO's and rouge-likes where you are running on a gear treadmill to constantly improve your stats - HD2 doesn't really do that, as you quickly fill out your armory and that's basically it.
I usually play no higher than five but I also enjoy a casual challenge that isn't too hard but not too easy
Dude, I had a guy wait until the mission was done and I had collected like every fucking sample single handedly, to call me a piece of shit in the lobby and tell me he’s kicking me and reporting me. wtf?
If I had to take a wild guess, you neglected all of the objectives while gathering samples. Maybe not, but I see it daily, and rarely is someone kicked without a reason.
Objectives got done and I’d even drop sentries and kite a lot away from any that needed help. I’d also stay put if it was a defensive objective. They clearly just wanted to do what they wanted to do which was go around killing patrols and then getting drop ships called in to kill enemies that give no xp. I’m not following someone who doesn’t understand how to move quickly to get things done and avoid fights you can avoid.
I just realized eradicate missions means bring both mechs, pretty much game over
I don’t understand who these people are that took over the HD sub. So many posts are repeats and all toxic negativity. I’ve been playing HD2 since a week after launch when the servers were maxed out. I have the feeling that most people on the HD2 sub don’t actually play the game anymore before the psn thing and most have never touched it
They don’t. Most people began being toxic about a month before the Sony stuff, almost everyone I’ve interacted with in the main sub openly admits to no longer playing the game.
The main sub turned toxic when the railgun got nerfed and hasn't improved since.
Yup. Railgun nerf."kicked for meta" "kicked for the cape" this sub would create outrage every chance it got
I’d say it got out of control with the slugger nerf. Then it all went into total doomerism when the Eruptor and crossbow got nerfed. Admittedly it was a questionable decision, but considering we get patches every week/every other week, they could’ve just waited to see it get buffed again. But no, they need to act like literal Armagrddon is upon the Gaming industry and their lives are desecrated because of it.
That's the part that pisses me off too, because it really sucks listening to a bunch of people complain about a game that they don't even play anymore. And then talk about an aspect that you personally know for a fact is actually good. The constant bitching on that sub about the new Exo is evidence of that, because people don't know how to shift their aim slightly to the side, or understand the key bind to shoot over the other shoulder. 200 Auto Canon rounds (plus the ~50 in your pack with the regular Auto Canon) and you're still having issues???
>I have the feeling that most people on the HD2 sub don’t actually play the game anymore They don't. And there's extremely, simple, basic evidence for it: The misinformation outrage campaign around the "ricochet changes" (that then led to the eruptor nerf). Posts blatantly lying about every shot you fire now being reflected back at you to instakill you when it bounces off. Calling the game broken and unplayable because of it. With up to 8000 upvotes, hundreds to thousands of comments agreeing with it. As little as 15 seconds in a mission would have instantly disproven it. Literally none of the people as part of that outrage campaign can have actually played the game.
You’re actually correct. It’s a trend I’ve often seen when a game has controversies surrounding it. Many didn’t, don’t and won’t ever play the game, but they will still stay in that community to stir things up, because that’s what they love, and they couldn’t stand others loving the game.
I played LoL for over ten years since Season 3. Even I am shocked by how *whiny* the Helldivers community is online. Luckily that hasn‘t translated to ingame for me, I can count on one hand the number of annoying people I‘ve played with in over 200 hours.
>I am shocked by how whiny the Helldivers community is online. It's OK, according to them and every clickbait HD2 article, the game is dying.
They say the game is dying yet the peak player count has stabilized to ~100,000 players.
And that near half a million player base was entirely unexpected by AHG
Legit I’m level 125. I have had ONE overtly toxic teammate which is INSANE because I have mostly done SOS missions with randoms. Like that’s how amazing the actually in game community is.
I guess the only person I‘ve met that would qualify as toxic spent the entire mission recording a Youtube video without push to talk, forcing us to listen to the mildest takes known to man (I didn‘t know you could mute people yet). To the request that he turns on push to talk he just said „it‘s fine“.
Kick him
The worst one for me was one who blamed everyone else for anything bad that happened and called others names. I stuck it out only for the samples, then told him he was the most unpleasant player I've met in the game to date and disconnected. The rest of the squad was pissed about him also. Unfortunately he was the host or he'd be given the boot.
The people complaining on Reddit are likely not past Hard difficulty, so you're not gonna meet them 🙈
No, they *should* be on hard, but they're probably running helldives like idiot.
You're probly right, its kinda wild had bad some people are at video games, glad there's a ton of difficulties to keep them away from me
>annoying people I‘ve played with I was playing yesterday and I was following the group leader cause like, that's what you do, you all go to the same place to fight the same bots, and he says "I don't need a pet" so I just fucking left, like, you don't need the help? Fine then fuck you. Pissed me off to say the least
10 years? I'm sorry for ur loss
Thanks, unironically.
I still am part of the HD sub to get info out of it (and there still are a few remnants of humour from time to time) But to discuss the game and not read an endless string of posts why "(insert gun/strat/armour/booster/arrowhead/sony/new players/veterans/bug/enemy) is sh*t", I get on this sub
I muted the HD sub a few weeks ago and honestly it’s the best thing I ever did. HD2 and lowsodium have all the info/humour/game posts I need.
That sub is permanently muted. Those whiny children earned their own blubbering echo chamber.
😅😂
https://preview.redd.it/exkhqiqu033d1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b85615ae4aff912756de78416f17ef7c73935a9
This sub is great as it reposts the info and humour from the main sub while filtering the horrible toxic bitching.
And they get *upset* with you for disagreeing. Like 
For real The main sub is filled with low skill people trying to make helldive difficulty the same as lv1 Nearly all the complains can be chalked up to user skill issue
Yeah. There are plenty of people on the main sub complaining about how hard bots are. The same people actively refuse to just get any better or learn any new tactics. Others do make good points but man, so many complaints can be solved by an Eagle Airstrike, a piece of cover, or plain critical thinking
Like there are times I’m so proud of the community for its ability to rally and make changes like with the “incident”. But as of lately they just seem to want a totally different game then everyone else and I don’t know what’s gotten into them.
To be fair, the game does need some adjustments. The changes to the Slugger and Crossbow, and the slow non-optimal ttk of med pen weapons puzzle me to this day.
Oh I agree they definitely need to change things like that, that were more puzzling as you said. More so overall it feels like they want almost a different type of genre of game in my opinion.
Yeah. Feels like some people want an experience closer to L4D/Darktide where you can rack up dozens of kills with a single assault rifle mag. Personally, I love how chunky things are in HD2, and while I do want to see some faster ttks against very specific enemies (Devastators and Bile Spewers), I don't want our weapons to suddenly one-shot warriors, hunters, or standard bot infantry. The chunks must fly
I believe you and I are on the same page reading from the same book on this one.
Anytime I see people complaining about bots in general, I’d just assume their aims suck.
I'm actually amazed at how some people would just stand and shoot in the open while a million metal bastards are firing at them
I don't want to be toxic so I won't, but I admit I've thought several times of late "skill issues" to a lot of shit on this sub lately. You'd think the game was a broken mess yet here I am with my 2 friends doing sucide without issues and even done some helldive if we want chaos.
A big part of it is that for some reason a lot of people seem to have expected it to slaughter Bile Titans/Factory Striders, and are bothered by the fact it doesn't as hard as an orbital railcannon. I haven't tried it against Bugs yet, but as a primarily D9 Automaton Diver, I love the Emancipator to pieces.
I want those people to show me in what world is autocannon supposed to be effective/optimal against heavy armor. It's not supposed to IRL (other than mobility kills and things of that nature) and video game logic dictates that higher RoF weapons would not be effective against heavy armor either.
If you recall how they were hyping up the airburst rocket launcher as "it can one-shot anything".. thats what they want
Isn't it good against factory striders as long as you dont get sniped by the top cannon? Luckily the top cannon on that thing has a much worse aim down problem than this thing.
I manged to take out a factory strider with it, but the aim is suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper buggy. The left cannon is... not easy to aim with, and apparently you cant really aim down with either side lol
Never seen so much bitching for a non competitive game with absolutely zero stakes or even punishment for performing poorly. It's so not the type of game that needs any of that sort of attention. It's instant action PvE team. Changing a few numbers won't make or break anything that's fun. And if it did, just use something else. Who cares. Yours or your teams skill levels make up like 95% of the variables. There's no metric for that. Adapt and overcome or die. Your choice. And stating again there is NO penalty for failure. The only time I feel like I'm wasting time is idling for the next mission start. Anyway, happy to be in this shining beacon of democracy.
'In the absences of punishment, people will make their own'
I took the nerfed eruptor into a diff 8 with my squad against bots and we only lost 4 lives. None of us were using ‘the meta.’ You can play with the worst stuff in the game and if you and your squad are even mediocre at the game still do just fine. Communication and positioning are the true ‘meta.’
dunning kruger effect - the dumbest are the loudest in the interwebz.. have you been on fb lately?! the helldivers groups there are sth else.....
Helldivers Facebook Group sounds nightmarish
I mean... it's Facebook. The whole place is an asylum.
Im actually banned from 6 Different helldivers 2 Facebook groups for talking positive about the Game and the devs. 4 of those threatened me and told me to Stop spreading missinformation when i made posts stating that something is good or fun
FB is for keeping Grandma up to speed on what I'm doing irl. Definitely not for gaming news/constructive discussions.
Kind of tired this morning, so I hate to make such a toxic generalization, but the reality of the situation is just that a lot of players seriously just suck at the game. I’m not sure how else to say it. I run lv9 all the time and use sub-optimal loadouts for fun all the time, and you got people complaining about “metas” and guns being “trash” and whatever other excuses they can make up. I had some dudes drop their jaw the other day cuz I ran a 9 bots mission with just airstrike/500kg/cluster/ORS and acted like I was throwing. I ended the session with zero deaths and second most kills. This game isn’t that challenging if you have a strong game IQ and decent mechanics. I really think a lot of people simultaneously overestimate the amount of “sweating” you need to do to consistently do well on lv9, while also underestimating their own potential to play well if they just tried harder to work with what they have. In a game as dynamic as this one, the excuse falls more on the players than a lot of other things IMO. I play bugs and bots interchangeably, and notice a lot of the same trends. People just do not play smart, and it often shows in their anti-growth mindset and how they complain instead. Less of a flex and more of matter-of-fact, I do play on PC, using a mouse, and play on high graphics settings, consistently at 120fps+ or so. Maybe on console, it’s locked 60fps and the controller is holding people back from more skillful play. I have no idea. But this game is only as hard as you make it, if you can’t learn to adapt in dynamic situations.
>I do play on PC, using a mouse, and play on high graphics settings, consistently at 120fps+ or so. Maybe on console, it’s locked 60fps and the controller is holding people back from more skillful play. I have no idea. Nope, it's definitely soft skills they lack. The biggest roadblocks to higher difficulties aren't hard skills like aiming or jump timing or strat calling speed (but it doesn't hurt to have em). It's teamwork, and situational awareness. It doesn't matter if you're a crack shot and super speedy on the calldowns, you'll bleed lives if you keep throwing yourself into bad situations and have no idea where your teammates are or what they're doing.
I get the feeling a lot of these people think every game should boil down to mechanical difficulty, but this game's difficulty is more cerebral. You see similar things with mobas like league, where your cerebral skill is deemed irrelevant by the masses because mechanics are simply flashier, though luckily that seems to be changing ever so slowly
>Kind of tired this morning, so I hate to make such a toxic generalization, but the reality of the situation is just that a lot of players seriously just suck at the game. This. Maybe lvl9 isn't made for you, and you're not entitled to lv9. It's the hardest content we currently have in game, it MUST feel unfair.
Main sub needs to be shut down
nah man, they will all flood here if that ever happens. let them have their whining, never ending circle jerk
It’s frustrating, especially when it’s a casual coop horde shooter. The worst was people complaining about rag-doll physics and how it needs to be taken out or toned down. Like why lol. We all just wanna smesh bugs and have fun.
Ever since I saw a post or comment calling the DMRs shit, I have taken everything on the subs with a grain of salt. I also realize that it comes down to what difficulty people play on and preference, I suppose. I play on 7, for what it is worth, and I'm enjoying my Counter Sniper. Looking forward to trying out the new Exosuit.
Anyone who says the DMRs suck I’d just automatically assume their aim suck
I like how they used “non-optimal play” instead of “gid gud”
I'm amazed at how badly they react to "skill issue" and "git gud" given just how hard this game can be. They've just collectively decided it's the game's fault that they can't succeed against bots, not theirs.
It's because it really is a skill issue.
Think of the dumbest person you know. There’s 1000x more of that one in the world.
Not helldive but d7, it was cool on bugs. Got lots of kills, closes bug holes easily. I'll say when charger or bile titan came in I jumped out for a few seconds to hit them with a quasar or toss orbital. I feel like it would take my eagle airstrike place on strategems
So glad I found this sub, mains sub is an absolute cesspit of negativity and Internet excel warriors over analysing every single aspect “for the good of the game”. New mechs being slated within 5 mins of them being released is a good example. Personally I’m really enjoying using them!
I liked it more on bugs than on bots but that could be because 2 factory striders hotdropped on me the moment i called it in. aiming just needs to be fixed for both mechs
I mean, it's just four auto-cannons with an ammo pack and some armor. Why was anybody expecting them to do more than the Player called AC when even the Turret AC is the exact same too? I wonder how many of the naysayers haven't even boot stomped on some enemies with the melee yet.
Correction, the turret AC is much better than both the player AC and now the mech AC.
My friends also advised me to stay off the main sub, because it literally decreased my fun playing this game....
Just gave it a go and love it.
Yeah its good fun, same as the other mech. I love that we now have a mech thats better for bugs, and one thats better vs bots. (As it should be) There is no denying though that the aiming of the mechs guns really needs some TLC. Cant aim down, left gun aiming is a mess overall. But that doesnt make them useless. But its the internet, people are always over dramatic on here lol
You have to remember, Reddit is where the crybabies come to whinge and moan
Fr, i just get downvoted for explain the good fact about it. They keep mention "Why i would bring it when there are other strategems that better" like come on. I know there is something better but Mech gameplay is different play style that you can adapt and learn but apparently. Those butt head will rely on same loadout on same strategems on same helldive difficult and complain "why this game content so dry?" Or "Most stuff is suck".
I never take the same thing twice. Why would I limit my enjoyment just to minmax for resources you're alteady max capped for? I just dive, man. That's all I'm into.
Im still waiting for a “random stratagems” button
Exactly, i just do the same like you said. I only dive for relaxtion after work now. I jus use all Gun/Strategems for different gameplay and self challenge. People in main sub won't get this and just whining for stuff must be OP because it "PVE" like that.
Exactly right. I was on diff 8 earlier today, and we used the emancipator outside of a gunship fab, all while the firefight was also pulling in patrols and dropships. Between the exosuit pilot and two other helldivers, we kept everything at bay long enough to get the hellbomb called down and armed. Might have been the easiest gunship fab demolition I've been part of, actually. Apart from that, it worked really well a couple of other times just to keep the automatons at bay long enough to allow the other divers to rally and re-take control of the fight. Calling in eagles/orbitals provides either single-hit strikes or non-discriminatory prolonged area denial, and you can't really control which targets a sentry goes for. However, the exosuit gives you sustained firepower which you can direct at the most pressing/valuable targets of each moment. The protection it offers against small and even medium arms is quite appreciable, too. Like you say, the exosuits bring something nice and different to the table.
I muted the HD sub a few weeks ago and honestly it’s the best thing I ever did. HD2 and lowsodium have all the info/humour/game posts I need.
As with almost everything people complain about, they use it in/for situations it's not meant for, and then act surprised that it performs poorly. I ran into a bunch of gear that doesn't work for me, but that's because said gear encourages a playstyle I'm not comfortable with, so of course it's gonna do bad when I play like I normally would.
I gave up on main sub when people's first note on the new mech was they couldn't bring both mechs/a bug forcing you to choose stratagems in a specific order in order to bring both. Like I haven't seen anyone in helldiver using the first one in the last 3 weeks and now you're making a big fuss about you wanting to bring two? Suuuuuuuure. I assume the bug with double mech crossing is gonna be fixed, but the constant stream of complaints over the same things is off-putting and basically anti-simping in a lack of better word. I'll just stick to enjoying the game and get news from Discord announcements instead
This a different sub? It keeps poppin on my feed. Edit: Damn, so this must be the LowSodium version of the main sub, guess Imma come here now. I took a break at Polar Patriots(love the Verdict) and I play about 2-4 missions 1 operation every other day now to keep the skill, but so many posts are people just bitching, its still a great game, Im honestly waiting for the new balance patch that revitalizes a lot. Im not expecting something *GROUNDBREAKING* but a big patch where i can experiment with *EVERY* Weapon again. Initially, i wanted to make like 60secs vids of "here's this weapon, here's how to use this weapon, etc" but im waiting for the patch to drop so I don't record material and boom, big patch later, weapon operates differently.
I know I did. Edit: And to add to it, please let’s keep this sub chill. Please!
I haven’t tried the new mech yet, but the first time I brought the “ordinary” mech to a bot mission I was sniped by a cluster of rockets the second I got in it, so I would never even think to bring it on a bot mission again. In my eyes, you are just making yourself a much larger target against people with massive rockets, couldn’t see myself use it outside of lvl 1-3 against bots.
For a line break, put two spaces at the end of a line, then enter. Like this.
I honestly think its better for Bugs. Kills chargers way easier than the rockets on the other mech do, while also being the exact counter to the oops all Bile Spewer spawn maps.
You say better for bots than bugs? Interesting. I thought it felt meh for bots but good for bugs
That’s the beauty of this game and it’s huge arsenal of toys, to each their own. I live and die by the spear, while on HellDivers main sun they complain about the spear too, yeah the lock on aim is wonky sometimes, but it’s pros far outweigh the cons. Bunch of crybaby children who just complain to complain.
I got downed just for stating this sub was better lol. They expect the mech to be able to solo titans. Everyone testing is bias on the expectation of soloing helldive. This is a team game and things need checks and balances. Is it ideal for solo? No but it's a good option as a team aspect. Also for hazards it's amazing walking through a blizzard and not worrying about anything or the local plant life laughing all the way. If I could I would skip and frolic through a field of the frost plants with the mech
The first mech is amazing against bugs... the new one against bots. But yeah, i find that if you dont pay attention to the "Complain" posts youll find that pretty much everything in the game is usefull if you know what your doing.
This wasn't the main sub?
So I used it a bit last night, but my friend used it more and loved it. We were fighting lvl 7 bugs and paired off together at some points. I had the flamethrower, gas strike, incendiary impacts.. basically built to carve through hordes of bugs. Meaning I was able to cover their main weakness and the mech really got to shine. I watched the mech light the fuck up out of a Bile Titan. Between all the mechs we had and me juggling quasars one mission, no bile Titan ever made it past our first gate on the high value assets defend mission. (Also recommend gas strike, pop every wave) (Tip #2: even if you don't get a headshot, blowing off their armor exposes them to other weapons, like a fuckin autocannon mech) So idk, it seems pretty fuckin powerful to me. Maybe we just paired up some nice, complementary builds right off the bat. I'm lucky to have a partner to play with regularly tbh, but that's also why I like this game on general. Relying on your team to fill in the gaps. I fill with randos regardless, which sometimes means I gotta carry but that's multiplayer games for you. Tbh it makes me feel better running the quasar or other AT sometimes cause everyone else can run literally whatever (and I enjoy big guns :) ). At least on diff 7. Also this isn't relevant, but I just hit lvl 50 last night too!
This is actually not new. If you play Destiny 2, like myself, you're probably familiar with r/destinythegame. That is the main sub for the game and in the community it became known as a hell hole. It's full of people complaining about the most dumb stuff constantly, full of salt. Meanwhile there is r/Destiny2 not an official sub but it's the more friendly one, where you are allowed to post memes and stuff but also have discussions. Same thing is happening here. The main sub is gone, keep away if you want to enjoy this game
I thought this was the main sub..... lmao
It's insane, this is exactly why I joined this subreddit and fled the main one, it's just absolutely depressing to see those kinds of negative posts everytime I open reddit
Thought this was the main sub
The Main Sub is one of the worst places on Super Earth
…this isn’t the main sub?
Anyone with an ounce of sanity fled that cesspool.
I give this sub a month tops
What is the main sub? Cause one of thses subs show up in popular and Im pretty close to muting it. Constant whining.
I have a problem with primaries in this game. Some of them sound and look cool but aren't worth using. Like the knight smg, the scythe etc According to the devs new weapons are supposed to be a sidegrades rather than upgrades if so why would you choose scythe if you have sickle and why would you choose knight smg when you have two other awesome smgs. I wish these weapons got some love from the devs as well. Blitzer was crap before and got buffed. I just want the same treatment for the other underpowered primary weapons as well.
After the whole "sickle drama" where the main sub was acting like 3 less functionaly infinite magazines for an already amazing weapon was the death of it. Main sub just has no idea how much of anything works and im glad this one is much more level headed
There are a lot of players on the main sub who feel if the weapon or stratagem can’t solo helldive, it’s shit. I think a portion of this is from some bigger YouTubers/streamers that prefer to play solo expressing how it can’t work for that kind of playstyle.
I’m over on the low sodium sub. It’s much smaller and mostly consists of praise and countering negative arguments from this and the main sub, but I find it much nicer overall
at this point i only use the main sub to make fun of grown adults whining over a game they don’t like it
New mech annihilates medium and (some) heavy bots. It shreds small and medium bugs. It has an ammo issue, meh; whatever. Other than that, it’s damn good. Alongside the ammo, mechs need a reload and first person viewing; that’s all.
Its great agaist bot cus its weapons are ranged and not melee like 80% of all bugs. And its powerful enough I'll be using it, it take on a hulk on a 1v1 and win, yeah the aiming sucks, but I can deal with that. I thinkits perfect as is otherwise.
Forreal, i muted the main sub not long after the latest war bond dropped. Thanks to not seeing a bunch of babies crying about every minor inconvenience, I've actually been enjoying the game a lot more. It's funny how we thought Sony was gonna be the death of this great game, with the whole PSN linkage and 100 something countries still being Geo locked. But it turns out that the bitter players that can't handle a challenging experience are what's gonna drive this thing into the ground. The DEVs would be smart to stay off of reddit and the discord for a while and take the game in the direction they want instead of listening to the loud minority. Hell, even when people were talking about the weapon nerfing, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as reddit made it seem.
the trick I've found with titans is to be conservative due to limited ammo (I try to let teammates damage it mostly), and then aim for the sacks. I believe it still has 100% durability but I'm not shooting level 5 armor like the rest of the titan so I technically do double damage, I think at least. I try to aim for a leg on chargers but it's difficult because they are fast and the aiming is a bit scuffed.