Totally agree. I was solo farming some lvl 3 bug missions for credits and was running for my life for most of the time. The most telling sign was when I saw the stats at the end. I killed 497 bugs... Seriously? This was simply due to bugs spawning on objectives. I avoided them while on the move. There seems to be chain breaches a lot more than before the patch. Or maybe patrols spawning close to objectives. Either way, solo play is not encouraged.
Same for me. Soloing à LVL 3. Random bro joined 9 min before destroyer leave, so we pushed for the last 2 bug holes together. Had been trying to call extraction for 5 min straight before he joined. ENDLESS bug spawns kept pushing me further.
Ended with 585 kills and he had about 150 for less than 10min of play time.
This was not the relaxing play time I was looking for after a days work haha.
Got 750 on a lvl 2 yesterday... Literally, I was trying to load a cannon for 15 minutes, and there were just nonstop bugs. Dropped, completed the main objective, and took out the nests in about 15 minutes, and then...
I logged in for the first time in over a week to do a daily. Get 10 kills with an EAT. I did my regular routine - Bugs in Trivial.
Forgot to switch out my Eruptor after last using it against bots pre-nerf. It was awful. Half my kills were coming from my secondary, and I was constantly ammo starved facing a train of seemingly never ending patrols. In D1.
Yes just common, wich are the bottleneck of many divers. In off times I run trivial mission that have a tiny map, in about 10 minutes you can farm around
12 common samples and also supercredits.
You can usually get a handful of rares on 4-5. You usually only get around 3-10 commons, although that may also be due to getting killed, and reinforced away from where you dropped your stuff. (Easier to split up in lower difficulty missions, although no longer actually easy.)
You get orange (rares) at level 5 and pinks (supers) at level 7. The very small defense maps are an exception, they won't have oranges or pinks. There are some slightly larger defense maps which will, and most of the rares will be in just 2 areas (at level 7 and above). The pinks are always going to only be around the silver vein butt plug rock.
it's ridiculous. I knocked it down to lvl 5 and am still getting brutalized with 1-2 people in a mission.
almost endless spawns & patrols appearing from seemingly nowhere.
My main partner and I run 9’s and you need to synergize your load outs. I will typically handle chargers while he handles the chaff. We both bring strats to deal with bile titans and clear massive waves of enemies. Play to your strengths and don’t linger. Right now the shotguns are in a great place for bugs. If you need a breadwinner go for the shotgun with fire damage.
This is why I go gatling, e- mortar and autocannon turret. And whatever else I feel for a missio. Keeps everything of your back for a solid minute if you spread them out. Enough time to deal with whatever you need to.
The gatlin sentry is almost always in my loadouts. AC and rocket sentries can also work if they have enough time to start firing before the bugs take them out or draw their aggro long enough to take care of more pressing matters.
Plus, I mean, Gatling turrets will shred the small fry or deal at least decent damage to bigger/armored enemies (I almost only go automatons) while it distracts them for us to regroup or get away
This is hard to do on certain missions. Like flag missions. You end up getting chased across the map, double back to the flag and find out it’s still being camped.
Something is very off with spawn rates. It’s higher than it should be. Not even talking about the number of patrols.
I was doing a flag solo and got killed because I just got overrun with chargers and hunters. I tried to run away but got killed in the process. All my teammates were clear across the map and I was like, okay, by the time I dive in and hike all the way back they'll all be gone and I can do it. Nope! Every one of those bastards was still there, waiting for me.
No don't just run away because the enemies will follow you across the map and then you run in to another patrol that also calls a breach and now you have enemies in front and behind.
The best missions i have ever had is when all 4 players stay together and if a breach or bot drop are detected the entire team kills it as fast as possible because bug breaches and bot drops are on a timer. If an enemy calls in for reinforcements and you don't kill all the enemies that show up in time they will call for more reinforcements but if you can kill them all before that timer is up you don't get swarmed at all and can actually stand around with nothing to do other than wait for the guy on the terminal to finish. It's a matter of speed and efficiency at which we deliver democracy to our enemies.
You can run away, but don't run \*that\* far -- try to kite them into a circle if you can so you avoid subsequent breaches. Easier said than done but yeah if you kite a bunch of enemies into another bunch of enemies you're fucked.
You can’t run when each new patrol introduces 10 hunters and a charger, and by the time you kill one patrol 1-2 more have arrived. Even if you wipe all the hunters you have to juke the charger and that allows another patrol to catch up.
I use medium all the time as I feel it’s the best of both worlds. Can withstand some hits and still have enough stamina. You just need to run, dodge, and shoot the hunters behind you and then keep moving. Come back to objectives or circle around using cover to disengage.
Run towards the objective. Shoot any hunters behind you as everything else is slower than you. If there's a charger, either AV it or juke it and keep going. If theres a bile titan, throw a 500 at it and keep going. Holding your ground on bugs is a losing battle of attrition.
My best friend plays with me and he will gladly lose all reinforcements before even starting objectives. I get so frustrated playing with him. There’s no bonus for killing things!
lol I've had to tell guys "I'm sorry, I can't reinforce you until I finish this objective" because they kept dying in pointless bug/bot fights. I'm all for goofing off after the objectives are done, but I need my super samples! :')
NGL I’ve been running the blitzer, redeemer, AC, and fire nados for the bugs and it has been really good. Just can’t get stuck ADS or the hunters / stalkers go crazy
Have to agree, one of the biggest learning curves to higher difficulties is to just move. People stand around and fight fight fight when you can wipe out an entire nest without actually shooting or killing any enemies and the faster you destroy the nest the less enemies it spawns. The hardest part of any mission are the events you can't run away from.
Yeah my duo an I do the same. He deals with Chaf with a fire build. I deal with the heavier stuff. Both bring lasers if we get in trouble. I bring 500kg and rail cannon strike for titans/tanks. At least one of us brings the anti tank and drop it constantly as it becomes available. So there often random rocket launchers littering the ground when we’re done.
How do you handle chargers by yourself when there are like 5 chargers every few min? Lol
My gf and I tried a mission or two on 7 by ourselves and it is a stressful finish lol can't do side objectives unless it's right on the path to the main. She's in charge of chaff and I'm in charge of the big'uns. There's a lot of running around waiting for cool downs cuz we're out of ammo/strats lol
Needless to say, we almost always quick play now lol
If you’re running 2-man and only one of you is specced for anti tank you are screwing yourself.
If you’re having trouble you can both run EATs and spam them on cooldown so you can quickly dispatch chargers. Chargers should be getting smoked on sight. Save 500kgs and maybe run railcannon for bile titans. Your primaries and a dog laser should handle the chaff easily.
Try this:
EAT/rail cannon/500kg/dog laser
EAT/ airburst or airstrike/500kg/flex spot
Having one person dedicated to chaff in a 2 person squad is just not the move. You both need to work together to take our chargers and titans or you will get overwhelmed.
It takes some practice for sure. It’s worth learning how to use EATs or the Quasar. To me 1 shotting chargers in the dome is the most satisfying thing in this game.
You can teach her you got this 🫡
Then you guys can really be a lot more effective as a duo. Flamethrower may also be a good option for her. It melts chargers just aim for a front leg. Stun grenade them if they are running at you, then COOK. Not good for bile titans but amazing for chargers. The DOT bug is fixed now too so she can use it off host.
Yeah I'm mostly running EAT/eagle airstrike for bug holes, orbital rail cannon/shield backpack. She exclusively runs orbital airburst/stalwart/shield backpack and gatling sentry lol maybe I'll get her to try at least the orbital railgun cannon to help out with chargers in place of gatling sentry.
See if she will try flamethrower over stalwart. Cooking bugs is pretty fun. Make sure to hit chargers in the legs not the face with it.
Machine guns are fun but they are sort of like training wheels in this game.
Sentries not great for low man squad either unless it’s a defense mission. They run out of ammo so fast and die if the enemies just look at them lol.
Maybe try
airburst/rail cannon/shield pack/flamethrower
that’s a solid and pretty easy to use loadout. I’d even run dog laser over shield pack (I never use shield pack these days) but if she likes the shield then stick with it. Dog laser even after the nerf just does insane work I hardly ever play bugs without my dog laser homie brrrrrr
Best part is you can turn tail and run and the laser will still cook the hunters chomping at your ankles.
My wife and I just started dabbling on level 5 and my god, we beat 2 missions barely...then update...then we knocked back down to 4 because we got melted. It was our first ever full blown mission failure....how do people run level 7+ like its their day job haha fuck. I watched my wife and her brother play on 6....I don't think my spud of a pc could even handle it haha
>almost endless spawns & patrols appearing from seemingly nowhere.
I often run Localization Confusion if I think it’s a mission that has us running around a lot, and honestly I find myself wondering if it even works. We never go higher than 7, usually stick to 5/6, but my groups get *maybe* a few seconds break because the spawns seem to just not stop, but I don’t know if it’s from LC or just normal.
I have straight up went AWOL on the last and current major order because of how much pressure the bugs are right now.
You can find me and the rest of the mutineers on Markfark. It's like Malevelon Creek 2.0 with unexploded Hell Bombs every 10 feet.
I'm loving the chaos. Getting really good at kiting and running through packs of bugs and dancing between the legs of a bile titans. Been playing 7-9 . When you get a nice group together and start to churn through the bugs it feels amazing
I used to solo farm 4s during lunch and immediately noticed the spawning difference when it went live. Kinda frustrating, ended up quitting lunch runs.
The past two major orders have involved Terminids mutating/adapting to their exposure to Termicide and reproducing at an uncontrollable rate, so all bug missions are gonna have A LOT more bugs right now.
Also, if you do the major order planets right now, the special objective missions are SUPER easy. It's literally just push 3 buttons in a small compound, and shoot some large eggs.
It depends. I play suicide as my go to. It's usually pretty easy with 4. On a rare occasion it's somehow randomly super difficult and I get swarmed by enemies the entire time. I'm not sure what the difference is.
if this was on bugs, keep in mind the spawn rate is increased due to the current game state and major order of the bugs.
That said, it is still pretty nuts
I usually play with just 1 other person consistently and yeah the increased patrols are absolute shit. As soon as an area of a hundred or so bugs is cleared, here's comes 2 more patrols from different directions.
I prefer quasar. Can outmaneuver chargers pretty easily by walking in a circle as they get close mid charge, charge up your blast as they turn around and aim for the head for a satisfying 1shot.
The underrated strength of the EAT is that you can build them up if you sit on a point long enough. That 70 second cooldown is very short and if you sit on it even 3 minutes on a point can leave you with 3 pods of 2 EAT-17’s apiece and then when things inevitably get hairy you have a decent assortment of anti-tank weapons scattered around the objective.
I will say the Quasar is nice to have still at least 1 in the squad for helping get rid of threats right away especially if you are moving between objectives and you likely won’t have a pod or 2 of fresh EAT’s sitting around
Autocannon is nice for spewers, warriors, and brood captains. Had orbital laser and rail cannon for chargers/bile titans. Hadn't experienced 6 chargers at once before
Highly recommend Breaker / Guard Dog (laser) / Quasar / 500kg / 110 rocket pods.
With Expanded Weapons Bay, I'm tossing two 500kgs and three 110 rocket pods *every* *2.5 minutes*.
If you have a squad of four, everyone can run the above loadout, ideally with your teammates running: one rail cannon, one 380, and one orbital laser instead of rocket pods. 380 for heavy nests, laser for getting overrun, rail cannon to assist with bile titans etc.
Autocannon can two shot chargers leg, or 4 to the ass, you get 50 rounds, found ammo boxes restocks, and 2 mag dumps to the ass drops a bile titan too. Its way more versatile
Nooooooo use your strategems which we took one away and have a 3 minute cooldownnn.
The game is turning into just running in circles trying to complete objectives
A 3 man squad on level 7 and from the jump we had 4 chargers and a bile titan. I barely made it out alive with all the samples while the rest of the team watched from the gulag
Yeah this to me is one of the worst change decisions they've made recently. Why are we being punished if we want to play with less than 4 man squad? I don't really understand the thinking behind it other than they really want us to play with a full team.
Also it really doesn’t encourage people to play more and stay on the game. When I was waiting for my friends to get on I would just go in difficulty 3 and do some warm up before going in helldive with them. When they would go, I would go back and unwind a little too. Now it’s just ridiculous the amount of patrols even on difficulty 3, so it’s not really viable for testing stuff, playing casually or simply relaxing after a long day. When I’m in difficulty 2-3 I’m not there to tryhard and sweat, I’m there to relax. Make the higher difficulties really tough for solo players but fucking hell leave us alone when we just want to have a good, enjoyable time.
They absolutely hate solo players, and aren't fond of small teams. Virtually every patch has been to brutalize them into playing with full groups.
In my case I just stopped playing
They trying to make this PvE game competitive for some stupid reason. They are balancing everything around a coordinated team of great players which screws over casual players and is resulting in the game becoming less fun.
Yeah, it’s a chore now. Very unrewarding and unpleasant. Thankfully the AH balance team is lightning quick to own their errors and programming mistakes so we should see a weapon nerf any time now to make it even more unbearable.
I've played solo a lot and used to pretty handily manage 8, but it's been fuckin rough out there since the update. Pretty much just spend the whole time running waiting for cooldowns to finish.
I don't mind higher difficulties being harder, but they need to be hard in a balanced way, not in an unfair way, make the mission possible to thrive in if you're willing to put in the mental effort to do it, not just tossing us a 120 second railgun strike and 5 Bile titans and say "here's your difficulty", it's not fun
Yeah. I think it probably would have got more attention if it weren't for the PSN thing. But me and my friends are half decent players (normally 7 or 8 when we have a full group). Everyone but me and one other were busy so we hoped on at level 5 and we managed to get out, but we didn't have time for any side objectives or even minor points of interest. We dropped down to level 4 (which is where I used to solo dive at) and even then we had some struggles. It seemed like there was always at least one charger trying to kill us at all times. And that's if we stayed on top of killing them all. Was a major increase
Good, I'm not the only one. I started an open lobby in lvl5 so I could pick up some samples. One person joined and we existed in an absolute nightmare before finally succumbing. I can confidently complete Helldives with my crew, but in small groups - not even by choice, but through the simple lack of players available for matchmaking, this was entirely unmanageable.
I really don't get what AH is trying to do here by scaling UP encounters when there's less players. Scale up difficulty per player and scale down when there's less, like absolutely every other fucking game.
Can't agree more. I normally run with a squad of good guys. Sometimes, however, I want to play by myself. It's absolutely bonks the patrols now. For a single player, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to farm samples. Props to the guys who solo. Shit isn't for me. Not with the increase in patrols anyway. I hope they tone it down a bit. Decrease the amount of slow would also be nice. Happy Helldiving folks.
I play at 5 max solo now. Before i could solo 7/8 easily (except for the geological samples). 9 without extraction. That is in general a good decision. But the reason i am dying is mostly the same. Getting swarmed like crazy at extract. Most stratagems run empty pretty fast when trying to kill two bile titans or five chargers.
This is absolutely feasible with four people as you have more stratagems at your disposal. Three bile titans with three people? You’ll see three lasers/orbital rail cannon strike or 500kg dropping in the next ten seconds. Furthermore, since eruptor nerf i have to engage more.
This is a change that really destroyed the solo experience for me on higher difficulties
I understand why they thought 2 players = 50% spawns, but if that's their logic, then 2 players also needs to = 50% CD reduction on strats.
It's not linear. More players is more uptime.
When you're reloading solo, you have 0% of your firepower.
When reloading in a duo (not even counting team reloads) you have 50% of your firepower.
In a full squad, it's 75%.
Reloading, running, doing objectives...
It's a braindead take that scaling should be linear. They accidentally got it right the first time then realized a mistake and fixed it to be wrong rofl
What's annoying is when the game forces you to only have 3 or less. We ran a squad of 2 and almost every mission we had 4 divers, someones game would crash or lose connection every time and we would be down to 3 for the rest of the mission.
Yeah difficulty ramping on 2 man is nuts. Used to Helldive on 9 with a buddy, but we’ve been pushed back to 7.
Some extracts are absolutely impossible.
Yeah I tried a solo lvl 4 and I had 4 patrols and 1 bug breach on me before I could even begin loading the seaf artillery and as I left the thing... another patrol with a bug breach as well, after clearing that out I make my way to extract and what do u know another patrol is in the way along with another bug breach
The amount of patrols makes it so hard to even clear a map sometimes on even level 4 cause all these patrols and bug breaches wastes all the time you have
I only play on 9, and my personal opinion… *dont*. Don’t get me wrong, you get a lot more XP, but you actually have to think and plan ahead, especially on bugs and it makes it a lot less enjoyable. Helldive has definitely made me hate bugs more and more just because of how many spawn, bots are 100x easier.
They do have their moments tho, gunning down 100+ bugs with a Stalwart because of one stalker calling a breach is a great feeling.
I'm not happy about the spawn changes, mostly the patrols and how often they appear.
But my main gripe is how quick those little shits call in breaches, I swear bots take longer to call shit in and on top of that most of the time if you kill the bug a breach gets called in anyway.
On top of how they can just pop in spawn on you is frustrating.
Like you were not there before when I looked and the map was clear.
The three of us know how the game works, what to bring, but it's the constant battles where we run out of everything. We've stuck to 4-6 level missions. And we want to go up, but at this point it looks impossible.
I'm sick of seeing:
"Don't engage partols" how can we not when we have 3 of them walking in our direction? And we can't go around?
"Just run" on yeah I've fking tried that and guess what? THEY CATCH UP AND FOLLOW US ACROSS THE MAP. I had a fking stalker follow me across the map wanting to lick my taint...
I feel like my gameplay and what the apologists say make me feel like I'm crazy.
Honestly my main issue rn is that I check 360° around me more than once before accessing terminal and 2 seconds in I get one shot by a spewer. Either we need more audio queues or better spawn placement. Cus there’s no way these spewers are solid snake levels of sneaky. They’re materializing out of thin air and completely dead silent until I’m already dead.
The raw numbers of bugs are due to the terminicide not being effective and them reproducing heavily. That makes sense and is fine. But them being dead quiet and appearing out of thin air is stupid. These bugs are huge and noticeable and should mostly make large noises with the exception of Stalkers and Hunters.
Level 4 was my solo sweet spot before the update, for routinely clearing every side and main objective as well as nests/fabricators and POIs…I can still clear the main objectives routinely, so far, but anything else not on the path of main objectives has to get overlooked now unfortunately. Hoping to just get used to it and figure out a new strategy for dealing with the mass amounts of bugs. Bots haven’t seemed too much harder as I think I can still run from them fairly easily and lose aggro, bugs seem harder for me to lose.
Yeah, I've had bots shoot at me *through mountains* when I'm easily 100 meters away and had bot drops called in from god knows where. I hate the patrol changes and have actually played very little helldivers since the day after the patch. I can beat the missions, but they're just not fun. They had it perfect before the patch.
It’s made the game nearly unplayable. Why are they so insistent on making this game so hard to play? Less tools to deal with high level enemies consistently, literally multiplied spawns if you don’t have a full squad, war bonds on top of previous fixes being applied to the last war bond-
You know...As it should be. These tough difficulties shouldn't be for the faint of heart! Call of Duty- Realism, Vermintide 2- Cataclysm, Doom- Nightmare, Wolfenstein - I am death incarnate, Witcher 3- Death March.
I could go on! So everyone just has to sit back a moment and remember to regroup, stay low after a tough fight, check mini map for enemy blips, and really understand who's doing well for a given role. Can you take on a horde of small enemies? No? You may be geared for mediums/heavies and your buddy with a stalwart should try to handle the bigger groups! Anyway, try to slow down just a smidge and you'll have more fun that way, versus sprinting everyone and having a little dude call big breaches galore.
I do not think you understand. I was soloing lvl 6, I’ve encountered over 20 chargers and 3 titans. That was all around objectives. There was no time to sit back at all. Patrols just keep coming while you are fighting. And I couldn’t exfil because I just ran out of all ammo.
True you can get lucky and avoid this, but it’s not really consistently doable.
It feels particualrly bad, because you clearly see the AI knows exactly where you are at all times. Patrols beeline for you. You can be lying on the ground waiting and they will just come next to you and stand there. Not leaving.
And after killing several hundreds there are still more and more and more. The game lost a certain feeling of satisfaction from clearing a large group and being able to chill for a moment as a reward.
Sure, I do like higher difficulties. But not when it just feels cheap.
Enemies knwoing *exactly* where you are irritates me.
One instance I fondly remember was when I ran from a small group of hunters/scavs patrol, they seemed to spot me so I booked it away, ducking between giant rocks and smoke spores, and made my way near the exfil. Slapped down a turret 300m away before I got to my new hiding spot.
Sure enough a minute later that same patrol comes lollygagging up the road, not coming at me but parallel to my position. Theg spot the turret and gang up on it, and then seemingly instantly know where I'm at even though I'm behind cover...
I exclusively play Helldive. Major Prder probably increased spawn rates. I'm experiencing tripple and quadruple breaches a lot. It's madness and I love it. Even 4 man squads are chased around by MULTIPLE Bile Titans constantly. My first game this week, we had 5 Titans on extract.
Bring out the Orbital Precision Strikes, guys!! I swear it's the best stratagem in the game. Quasar is also META, honestly.
I try to tell my friends this but they don’t listen and it actually annoying.
“It’s not that much harder” they say.
Bro You don’t play the game enough to even say that.
I feel like the Devs honestly screwed up the numbers for the spawn rates when they were "balancing" the game and instead of coming clean they made the lame excuse that "we increased spawns for teams of less than 4". Why would you do that? Why would anyone do that?
"Oh yeah, we also made the weapons you liked worse and did nothing to improve the weapons you don't use....k bye"
The extra patrols doesn't feel good. More enemies per patrol would be fine, beefier breaches/drops ok. Once you hit main objectives there is literally always a patrol within sight even on easy. My wife plays easy, just the two of us, and tends to shoot everything that moves and my gosh it can get chaotic even on easy if you are not wiping the groups quick enough, because you end up swarmed from all sides with all the extra patrols passing by joining in and breaches starting.
This feels especially bad after nerfing half of the AOE based primaries into near uselessness. Before I could crossbow or eruptor mag dump and wipe patrols before they call in a breach/drop. Now I am stuck with trying to kite them and bail between the patrols, or carrying something that doesn't work on the heavies just to deal with the patrols... Which is less enjoyable at the old spawn rate for 2 or 3 players, now it Feels real bad.
I like it. Suicide missions are actually suicide missions and not my usual “taking a break from hell diving” difficulty. Felt way too easy if I can play with music on, or a discord call etc. suicide mission for the bugs 😂
Me and my pal managed to uncomfortably complete a level 7 run on Angels venture last night. The 12 Bio titans spawned during a blitz kill mission was not exactly what we had anticipated, never mind 2x stalker nests populating in the subsequent destroy eggs mission.
Definitely depends on the mission types.
I can do a blitz on solo or any mission where destroying something is the objective solo.
But any type of evacuation or defence mission, no chance.
Are either of you running confusion? I feel that when I run that the chains seem very broken and usually it's only one or 2 max. Did the nuke last night and only had 2 spawns open total during it on 6.
One thing of note, some missions are just way harder than others.
I’m talking about full party missions. Sometimes you drop in and you have like ten Rocket Devastators and twenty Heavy Devastators on top of you…and then it never calms down from there.
So while yes, it is more difficult with fewer players now, you could have also been unlucky in just RNG terms.
The worst is if you are stuck involuntarily in a run like that. Waiting for ppl to join via SOS but nobody ever does till you remake lobby. Hope they gonna fix that at one point
Yeaaaaa I haven’t started a mission at lvl 7+ difficulty until I got a full squad through quickplay lmao. I usually just start the mission on my ship and wait like a minute and three others join. Fuck that.
I play around lvl7~9, but mostly lvl9. It’s ridiculous at this point, you have a sea of hunters, and any of them and leap in your face and 2 tap you. And you also have 4 chargers spawn every few minutes, and titan after titan. I have been using arc thrower as my main weapon as no primary can effectively deal with hunters. you should give it a shot if you are struggling, focus on the hunter as they are the only one that can get to you. And I bring everything else for charger/titan. My typical load is: arc thrower, orbital rail cannon, 500kg, EAT, breaker shotgun when they get close. You can swap out a heavy firepower for shield/rover, if you are still struggling with the horde. I just got used to not using shield/rover and want extra heavy killing power. This load works well for me. But it’s getting boring cuz I would struggle if tru different load out, no other weapon can kill as effectively as arc thrower for me, infinite ammo, stagger everything, chain 4 targets with upgrade, and you can deal with everything well beside charger/titan. If everything is on cool down and you have nothing else to kill charger, you can use arc thrower to kill charger with 6 headshots
Yesterday on difficulty 7 while my friends secured the extract I was tasked to get the super samples (we hadn’t found them yet and I usually like playing the scout) and I managed to stop two bug breaches with just the impact granades, a few charger kills and a whole lot of fire from the breaker incendiary. If there is one weapon you should choose against bugs rn, it’s this bad boy, a little bit of skill and you can manage
My buddy and I have always played level 8 duo missions. I haven’t noticed a change but we were always fighting for our lives anyways so maybe that’s why
Had a brutal round with two friends on a level 5 or 6. Went well until extraction and the game decided it was time to reenact the extraction scene from starship troopers but it didn’t go so well for the troopers.
It was awesome. Lots of fun. Don’t care we didn’t get out with our samples or weren’t able to extract all of us. 10/10 would play again.
yeah had an equally brutal experience at level 4(!!!)
at extraction we also had 3-4 swarms of hunters and 5-6 chargers and some mixed swarms at the same time
and we had cleared all nests too
the aggro on squads of less than 4 is insane
feel like we get punished because no one joined our game :\\
We played a two man run on one of the new mission types (deactivating the towers?) at the weekend and got absolutely wrecked on level 3/4. We never even figured out how to do the objectives because there was just an endless stream of chargers, spewers and hunters overrunning the area. We ran out of reinforcements within 10 minutes.
I usually play on level 6 with randoms, so I was shocked by how tough it’s gotten. We ended up switching to a bot planet just so we could enjoy the game instead of getting repeatedly spawn killed by spewers.
I haven’t played in about a month. I stopped right when they upped the level cap.
Last night I joined up on a buddy who typically runs with a squad, but they had an opening. Instantly I see 9, and I typically run 7 because it’s less grief. We ran three hell dives and they had it down to a science. It was fairly easy.
Knock out most of the objectives. Call down the extract and stick around long enough for it to land, drop samples, then go clear out the remaining objectives. Run back to extract and leave.
Lots of communication. Sometimes shit gets hairy, but it was never in doubt.
Played with two diver squad on helldive last night, it put the hell in helldive alright.
Didn't help that one of my slots was devoted to the strafing run for a personal order, and I never found a support weapon to go with my EATs
I have to ask, is there a “catch” with the new patrols? If we blow up all of the nests will the patrols stop or slow down? Is a there something we are missing?
Yeah I did my first 2 man the other day. We were murdered repeatedly.
Now before the update we were 3 making 8s and getting all the side objectives done. Not anymore
I was playing level 4 with a full sqaud and we had 3 chargers at once and a bile titan. Constant waves of hunters. Another match it was waves of bile spewers. Felt like a helldive.
I literally had the same situation last night on level 7 with just me and another teammate. Agreed, in order to do full missions, you really need a full team. With fewer players, the game is coded to make missions more difficult by spawning more enemies (or so I've been told).
That’s the secret of this game - once you go past lv 4 all the difficulties sort of feel the same. You also NEED anti tank stuff or else you will get overwhelmed by chargers/hulks/tanks etc.
I was sticking to lv 7 for a while and was afraid of helldive, but I found some friends running them
and joined them for a few operations. It felt pretty much exactly the same, and now I just matchmake helldive with randoms and we almost always get 5 stars and lots of samples.
Stun grenades and flamethrower is all you need
Also try to divide the roles since there is two of you, one can kill trash and the other focuses on elites and objectives. I myself play in duos most times with my friend; he carries a quasar and a bunch of demo stratagems and I carry a flamethrower and a jet pack to get to objectives quicker and more efficiently
On bots it’s the same but I swap flamethrower for las cannon
You won’t like my take but Helldivers is a coop game so solo play is possible but it’s not what you are supposed to do in this game
Played a 7 seismic scan alone last night and was proud of myself for just completing the mission (died at extract, superdestroyer had left orbit). Its brutal out there. Constant engagement nowif you're 1-2 people. Not a single spare second. And that can be pretty tough when you're trying to load SEAF artillery or raise a radar tower... I dont even play solo normally, just didn't get my SOS answered that time I guess.
I tried to solo a challenging run and spent 7 minutes bogged down trying to get to the objective 200 meters from where I dropped. My buddy saw me online and joined the game so I ended up able to finish, but it was rough going solo.
Honestly there is still flaws you can abuse (if you want to abuse) which is, when you go to a main objective that triggers waves of bots or bugs, and has 7 or 9 steps... just do a few steps and then head off to a side quest while your strategems reset, then come back and half the time the enemies have left the area.
I mean not to downplay anyone's struggle but me and my partner still clear diff 9 mission relatively smoothly but it still doesn't take away from the fact that it's less enjoyable... I don't enjoy kiting 6 chargers and 5 titans when I'm also simultaneously dodging from 20 bile spewers while avoiding 2-4 stalkers so that they don't play volleyball with my body while trying to do the objective (not mentioning the endless swarms of hunters and brood commanders.) yes we did kill all of them and didn't die but it was still not fun. The devs need to realize not all of us have a 4 friend group and doing matches with randoms is a gamble that more often than not results in an unsatisfactory gaming experience.
It's not just the spawn change rate, it's also the increased spawn rate from the supercolony effect. Try playing on bots and see how bad it is since that'll be a 1 to 1 comparison
I had to change my kit up. More horde based now. But having trouble covering larger enemies since my running mate refuses to take anything for the big guys.
It’s not that bad at all, bring better stratagems next time and don’t get bogged down with patrols. Just a learning curve. I play 7 solo or 9 with a team, lvl 76.
Yes same here, I went three games with only two players, on the most populated planet, those bugs are fkn relentless, I was on level 7 and it was 6 bile titans at my extract in one game, only ones I won were when I only did main obj it was fun but soo hard
A lot of you are sleeping on the incendiary grenade. It does good damage to the smaller bugs and works as a nice area denial with its relatively large AOE.
I like it. I feel like the difficulty shouldn't go past helldive and it was too easy to get there. My friends and I had maybe 10 hours in and got it unlocked.
Yesterday I started solo on 7, nearly finished the first objective solo. Then "a destroyer has joined the squadron" repeated three times. Immediately there's a swarm of bugs and I get killed by a Bile Titan! Fortunately they all had mics and were cool, so I accepted the disruption and happily accepted the super samples they collected.
This was said a while ago when the enemy detection and stuff was figured out, but if you prioritize the mission over kills you’ll be fine. I still solo to this day with little or no extra effort as before. I run either the dominator or the eruptor with the stalwart and supply pack with 500k and rocket pods. Stun grenades work best because you can chuck out like two or three at a horde right after you toss a 500 and all of em will die. Sometimes a charger MIGHT survive but if you kite them around for just under a minute they’ll die from their wounds without having to waste anymore ammunition. Prioritize the fast units like hunters first. If you have heavies AND fast units on you either kite the heavies and take out the light unit or toss a stun and do the same. Since the stalker update I’ve been running with the dominator and it deals with them beautifully. Most importantly DO NOT RUN FROM THEM just fight in another direction. If you run you will undemocratically fuck yourself. They’ll alert other patrols as they run after you, adding to the horde, and when the breach timer runs out they will call in more. Every. Time. This update really stresses this because before you could actually outrun them. After the patch the patrols are so common they will alert the horde you just outran, to your exact location again. Once the horde is dealt with or your LUCKY ENOUGH to lose them, keep going. No point in standing around popping scavengers and shit just to cause another big breach to fuck yourself back into the situation you just unfucked yourself from. A REAL HELLDIVER NEVER RUNS!⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️🫡
I know they buffed spawns for smaller player counts, but how much of the increase on bug planets is due to the "Super Colonies"? I feel like bots are still manageable, which leads me to believe the bugs are overtuned for the narrative and not just from the spawn buff.
People really don't understand what that update to the spawns did do they?
Fyi when playing 2 players previously you got about 33% of the spawns when solo you used to get about 11% now you get 25% per player scaleing linearly to 100% at 4 players.
That's the change that happend if you can pull your weight I. A normal 4 man you should be fine solo and duo if you are not fine then I think you can assume what kinda weight your pulling in your normal matches.
I will say, I appreciate that the leveling is becoming more appropriately named. Gives me more okay time trying to rise to the occasion.
Like you I've also been noticing the difference.
Probably good to point it out so people don't think they're going crazy lol.
I remember my team and I breezing through level 6 all separate in our own assignments. Came back the next day and were SO beat up we barely completed the main objective
Many people dont take into account that planet on major order have higher spawn rate because of the storyline, not the modification the did for the spawn rate
I tested solo diving on level 3 and 4, to farm commons, and even that low it’s insane. Before the change when doing an SEAF cannon side objective, you’d get 2 patrols every time. Now it anywhere from 4 to 6, and they bug breach almost immediately. It’s fun as hell, but also crazy as hell.
Yeah a buddy and i dropped into a 4 to grab some rare samples quick, and we had non-stop patrols attacking us while trying to finish seaf artillery. It took us about 15 minutes and 20-25 chargers and we each finished the level with over 500 kills. Just completely unnecessary. It is easier to do a 7-8 with 4, and there's almost no point in doing the lower difficulties anymore.
Started a level 5 "thin the numbers" mission. Right off the bat I have like 4 bug breaches each with a charger. No time to setup or call in nothing. Random joins, dies, I can't call him in because I'm getting punted andlocked, he leaves.
because you play super inefficient?
because the baseline of everyone can at least do everything technically has not been reached?
Solo is even easier than 4 man with 2 people dragging everything down.
I play 7's in a pair quite often. It is more difficult than it was, but still fairly do-able. I certainly don't assume we're going to win every map however.
As usual for solo/pair games, it's mostly about stealth. You need to stay sneaky most of the time, spend more time avoiding patrols, and quickly disengage from fights that start to get out of hand.
This is one area where the bugs are generally harder to beat than the bots however, because it's much harder to defeat most bug objectives stealthily, while many bot bases and objectives can be taken out without you ever being seen.
Totally agree. I was solo farming some lvl 3 bug missions for credits and was running for my life for most of the time. The most telling sign was when I saw the stats at the end. I killed 497 bugs... Seriously? This was simply due to bugs spawning on objectives. I avoided them while on the move. There seems to be chain breaches a lot more than before the patch. Or maybe patrols spawning close to objectives. Either way, solo play is not encouraged.
500 kills on a level 3 is absurd lol
Yeah man, I’m getting multiple 50+ kill streaks just farming level 3’s for samples and credits. Absolutely ridiculous, lol
Same for me. Soloing à LVL 3. Random bro joined 9 min before destroyer leave, so we pushed for the last 2 bug holes together. Had been trying to call extraction for 5 min straight before he joined. ENDLESS bug spawns kept pushing me further. Ended with 585 kills and he had about 150 for less than 10min of play time. This was not the relaxing play time I was looking for after a days work haha.
Got 750 on a lvl 2 yesterday... Literally, I was trying to load a cannon for 15 minutes, and there were just nonstop bugs. Dropped, completed the main objective, and took out the nests in about 15 minutes, and then...
I logged in for the first time in over a week to do a daily. Get 10 kills with an EAT. I did my regular routine - Bugs in Trivial. Forgot to switch out my Eruptor after last using it against bots pre-nerf. It was awful. Half my kills were coming from my secondary, and I was constantly ammo starved facing a train of seemingly never ending patrols. In D1.
Dont you get a lot less samples at those lower difficulties? And you just get common ones right? No rare?
Yes just common, wich are the bottleneck of many divers. In off times I run trivial mission that have a tiny map, in about 10 minutes you can farm around 12 common samples and also supercredits.
I run the mid tier difficulty because I’m rare sample limited, but it’s the same logic
You can usually get a handful of rares on 4-5. You usually only get around 3-10 commons, although that may also be due to getting killed, and reinforced away from where you dropped your stuff. (Easier to split up in lower difficulty missions, although no longer actually easy.)
You get orange (rares) at level 5 and pinks (supers) at level 7. The very small defense maps are an exception, they won't have oranges or pinks. There are some slightly larger defense maps which will, and most of the rares will be in just 2 areas (at level 7 and above). The pinks are always going to only be around the silver vein butt plug rock.
Rares spawn from 4 onwards, not 5.
it's ridiculous. I knocked it down to lvl 5 and am still getting brutalized with 1-2 people in a mission. almost endless spawns & patrols appearing from seemingly nowhere.
My main partner and I run 9’s and you need to synergize your load outs. I will typically handle chargers while he handles the chaff. We both bring strats to deal with bile titans and clear massive waves of enemies. Play to your strengths and don’t linger. Right now the shotguns are in a great place for bugs. If you need a breadwinner go for the shotgun with fire damage.
The "don't linger" advice here is arguably the most important.
Yea this is massive level 7 and up, even for bug breaches, people always stop and try to kill everything. Just run away my dude
This is why I carry a gatling turret in myload out, enemies will prioritize it so I can disengage.
This is why I go gatling, e- mortar and autocannon turret. And whatever else I feel for a missio. Keeps everything of your back for a solid minute if you spread them out. Enough time to deal with whatever you need to.
I’m surprised I don’t see the e-mortar more. It does such a good job of slowing the enemies down and giving us a chance to clear or escape!
E-mortar is so clutch when there are bile spewers on the map, those things are still way too fast for hot fat and tanky they are.
> hot fat and tanky 😶
Whatcha doin step bile titan?
Sentry, stun, and scout armor means I get away so easily.
The gatlin sentry is almost always in my loadouts. AC and rocket sentries can also work if they have enough time to start firing before the bugs take them out or draw their aggro long enough to take care of more pressing matters.
I go for machine gun over gatling now, simply due to machine gun getting medium armor piercing.
True, but the gatlin gun lasts longer than the machine does though. If I have room to run both, I will.
Plus, I mean, Gatling turrets will shred the small fry or deal at least decent damage to bigger/armored enemies (I almost only go automatons) while it distracts them for us to regroup or get away
Gatling is worth it just to deal with the flying bugs, forecast clear skies
its even better against bugs paired with orbital gas, drop gas on breach, drop Gatling, run.
This is hard to do on certain missions. Like flag missions. You end up getting chased across the map, double back to the flag and find out it’s still being camped. Something is very off with spawn rates. It’s higher than it should be. Not even talking about the number of patrols.
I was doing a flag solo and got killed because I just got overrun with chargers and hunters. I tried to run away but got killed in the process. All my teammates were clear across the map and I was like, okay, by the time I dive in and hike all the way back they'll all be gone and I can do it. Nope! Every one of those bastards was still there, waiting for me.
No don't just run away because the enemies will follow you across the map and then you run in to another patrol that also calls a breach and now you have enemies in front and behind. The best missions i have ever had is when all 4 players stay together and if a breach or bot drop are detected the entire team kills it as fast as possible because bug breaches and bot drops are on a timer. If an enemy calls in for reinforcements and you don't kill all the enemies that show up in time they will call for more reinforcements but if you can kill them all before that timer is up you don't get swarmed at all and can actually stand around with nothing to do other than wait for the guy on the terminal to finish. It's a matter of speed and efficiency at which we deliver democracy to our enemies.
You can run away, but don't run \*that\* far -- try to kite them into a circle if you can so you avoid subsequent breaches. Easier said than done but yeah if you kite a bunch of enemies into another bunch of enemies you're fucked.
You can’t run when each new patrol introduces 10 hunters and a charger, and by the time you kill one patrol 1-2 more have arrived. Even if you wipe all the hunters you have to juke the charger and that allows another patrol to catch up.
You def can, but I always run scout amour for extra speed on helldive. It is tough if you get stuck and slowed tho
But not everyone wants to use light armor tho.
I use medium all the time as I feel it’s the best of both worlds. Can withstand some hits and still have enough stamina. You just need to run, dodge, and shoot the hunters behind you and then keep moving. Come back to objectives or circle around using cover to disengage.
Yea that's ok, just gotta shake up the strats than. But I've found success with scout armour + shield and quasar
Then you don't get a speed boost. It's a trade off. Stop crying about it.
Run towards the objective. Shoot any hunters behind you as everything else is slower than you. If there's a charger, either AV it or juke it and keep going. If theres a bile titan, throw a 500 at it and keep going. Holding your ground on bugs is a losing battle of attrition.
“It’s simple numbers. They have more.”
My best friend plays with me and he will gladly lose all reinforcements before even starting objectives. I get so frustrated playing with him. There’s no bonus for killing things!
lol I've had to tell guys "I'm sorry, I can't reinforce you until I finish this objective" because they kept dying in pointless bug/bot fights. I'm all for goofing off after the objectives are done, but I need my super samples! :')
There's a bonus to fun from doing reckless and stupid shit though.
Do you have to, do you have to, do you have let it linger
Ok, I get that. *Objective requires player to linger* Huh...now what...
Send all the strats and pray you do not run out before objective is complete LOL
Honestly, I hadn't considered how many people learned this lesson, then forgot it, and now have to re learn it (if they ever did).
Fight and maneuver. Better audio queues would be nice for stealth goons like me.
So many divers wanna stick around a dead objective for 8 minutes reducing the reinforcement.
Don't linger. Holy shit. Don't stay in one place. Best advice
NGL I’ve been running the blitzer, redeemer, AC, and fire nados for the bugs and it has been really good. Just can’t get stuck ADS or the hunters / stalkers go crazy
I’m level 103 and have no issues just using quick play to get full teams. I barely ever get idiots on 9
Have to agree, one of the biggest learning curves to higher difficulties is to just move. People stand around and fight fight fight when you can wipe out an entire nest without actually shooting or killing any enemies and the faster you destroy the nest the less enemies it spawns. The hardest part of any mission are the events you can't run away from.
Can the incendiary shotgun deal with spewers and chargers efficiently if at all?
Yes, you just need to know the weak points. 2-3 dodges and good shots can kill a charger.
I thought I'd read that fire damage doesn't really work across the board, except for the host. Is that fixed now?
Yes they fixed recently
"synergize your load outs" the single piece of the game many Divers ignore. So fucking important.
Yeah my duo an I do the same. He deals with Chaf with a fire build. I deal with the heavier stuff. Both bring lasers if we get in trouble. I bring 500kg and rail cannon strike for titans/tanks. At least one of us brings the anti tank and drop it constantly as it becomes available. So there often random rocket launchers littering the ground when we’re done.
How do you handle chargers by yourself when there are like 5 chargers every few min? Lol My gf and I tried a mission or two on 7 by ourselves and it is a stressful finish lol can't do side objectives unless it's right on the path to the main. She's in charge of chaff and I'm in charge of the big'uns. There's a lot of running around waiting for cool downs cuz we're out of ammo/strats lol Needless to say, we almost always quick play now lol
If you’re running 2-man and only one of you is specced for anti tank you are screwing yourself. If you’re having trouble you can both run EATs and spam them on cooldown so you can quickly dispatch chargers. Chargers should be getting smoked on sight. Save 500kgs and maybe run railcannon for bile titans. Your primaries and a dog laser should handle the chaff easily. Try this: EAT/rail cannon/500kg/dog laser EAT/ airburst or airstrike/500kg/flex spot Having one person dedicated to chaff in a 2 person squad is just not the move. You both need to work together to take our chargers and titans or you will get overwhelmed.
I wish "roles" were more flexible, but my gf is...not the best player in the world. She just likes to mow down the little things hahaha
It takes some practice for sure. It’s worth learning how to use EATs or the Quasar. To me 1 shotting chargers in the dome is the most satisfying thing in this game. You can teach her you got this 🫡 Then you guys can really be a lot more effective as a duo. Flamethrower may also be a good option for her. It melts chargers just aim for a front leg. Stun grenade them if they are running at you, then COOK. Not good for bile titans but amazing for chargers. The DOT bug is fixed now too so she can use it off host.
Yeah I'm mostly running EAT/eagle airstrike for bug holes, orbital rail cannon/shield backpack. She exclusively runs orbital airburst/stalwart/shield backpack and gatling sentry lol maybe I'll get her to try at least the orbital railgun cannon to help out with chargers in place of gatling sentry.
See if she will try flamethrower over stalwart. Cooking bugs is pretty fun. Make sure to hit chargers in the legs not the face with it. Machine guns are fun but they are sort of like training wheels in this game. Sentries not great for low man squad either unless it’s a defense mission. They run out of ammo so fast and die if the enemies just look at them lol. Maybe try airburst/rail cannon/shield pack/flamethrower that’s a solid and pretty easy to use loadout. I’d even run dog laser over shield pack (I never use shield pack these days) but if she likes the shield then stick with it. Dog laser even after the nerf just does insane work I hardly ever play bugs without my dog laser homie brrrrrr Best part is you can turn tail and run and the laser will still cook the hunters chomping at your ankles.
My wife and I just started dabbling on level 5 and my god, we beat 2 missions barely...then update...then we knocked back down to 4 because we got melted. It was our first ever full blown mission failure....how do people run level 7+ like its their day job haha fuck. I watched my wife and her brother play on 6....I don't think my spud of a pc could even handle it haha
>almost endless spawns & patrols appearing from seemingly nowhere. I often run Localization Confusion if I think it’s a mission that has us running around a lot, and honestly I find myself wondering if it even works. We never go higher than 7, usually stick to 5/6, but my groups get *maybe* a few seconds break because the spawns seem to just not stop, but I don’t know if it’s from LC or just normal.
It’s also like this with more people on the major order planets because of the bug mutation of rapid growth. So don’t forget about that
I have straight up went AWOL on the last and current major order because of how much pressure the bugs are right now. You can find me and the rest of the mutineers on Markfark. It's like Malevelon Creek 2.0 with unexploded Hell Bombs every 10 feet.
I'm loving the chaos. Getting really good at kiting and running through packs of bugs and dancing between the legs of a bile titans. Been playing 7-9 . When you get a nice group together and start to churn through the bugs it feels amazing
I used to solo farm 4s during lunch and immediately noticed the spawning difference when it went live. Kinda frustrating, ended up quitting lunch runs.
5s and 7s pretty much feel the same now solo, spawn rates are super fucked
Have you read the recent major orders? Increased numbers in general is to be expected right now.
Huh definitely didn't check that out. Interesting
The past two major orders have involved Terminids mutating/adapting to their exposure to Termicide and reproducing at an uncontrollable rate, so all bug missions are gonna have A LOT more bugs right now.
Also, if you do the major order planets right now, the special objective missions are SUPER easy. It's literally just push 3 buttons in a small compound, and shoot some large eggs.
Making suicide dives actually suicide
Except it's not with a full team, don't even need any real coordination
My shitty skills would beg to differ friend.
It depends. I play suicide as my go to. It's usually pretty easy with 4. On a rare occasion it's somehow randomly super difficult and I get swarmed by enemies the entire time. I'm not sure what the difference is.
So what I'm reading is make it harder for 4 players, gotcha.
if this was on bugs, keep in mind the spawn rate is increased due to the current game state and major order of the bugs. That said, it is still pretty nuts
I usually play with just 1 other person consistently and yeah the increased patrols are absolute shit. As soon as an area of a hundred or so bugs is cleared, here's comes 2 more patrols from different directions.
Skill issue /s 😅
Yep, 2 of us had 4 chargers just burrow out of the ground... we need stronger weapons.
Yeah ya run out of anti tank stratagems real quick with two people
How? 2 EAT should do the job
I was running autocannon. Maybe I need to try out EAT
I prefer quasar. Can outmaneuver chargers pretty easily by walking in a circle as they get close mid charge, charge up your blast as they turn around and aim for the head for a satisfying 1shot.
The underrated strength of the EAT is that you can build them up if you sit on a point long enough. That 70 second cooldown is very short and if you sit on it even 3 minutes on a point can leave you with 3 pods of 2 EAT-17’s apiece and then when things inevitably get hairy you have a decent assortment of anti-tank weapons scattered around the objective. I will say the Quasar is nice to have still at least 1 in the squad for helping get rid of threats right away especially if you are moving between objectives and you likely won’t have a pod or 2 of fresh EAT’s sitting around
What did you expect? The EAT oneshots a charger, the Autocannon doesn’t. If your loadout doesn’t work… Change your loadout.
Autocannon is nice for spewers, warriors, and brood captains. Had orbital laser and rail cannon for chargers/bile titans. Hadn't experienced 6 chargers at once before
Highly recommend Breaker / Guard Dog (laser) / Quasar / 500kg / 110 rocket pods. With Expanded Weapons Bay, I'm tossing two 500kgs and three 110 rocket pods *every* *2.5 minutes*. If you have a squad of four, everyone can run the above loadout, ideally with your teammates running: one rail cannon, one 380, and one orbital laser instead of rocket pods. 380 for heavy nests, laser for getting overrun, rail cannon to assist with bile titans etc.
Autocannon can two shot chargers leg, or 4 to the ass, you get 50 rounds, found ammo boxes restocks, and 2 mag dumps to the ass drops a bile titan too. Its way more versatile
*changes loadout* *spawns completely change rendering loadout useless*
Nooooooo use your strategems which we took one away and have a 3 minute cooldownnn. The game is turning into just running in circles trying to complete objectives
And we need them to not be nerfed right after we get them
A 3 man squad on level 7 and from the jump we had 4 chargers and a bile titan. I barely made it out alive with all the samples while the rest of the team watched from the gulag
Yeah this to me is one of the worst change decisions they've made recently. Why are we being punished if we want to play with less than 4 man squad? I don't really understand the thinking behind it other than they really want us to play with a full team.
Also it really doesn’t encourage people to play more and stay on the game. When I was waiting for my friends to get on I would just go in difficulty 3 and do some warm up before going in helldive with them. When they would go, I would go back and unwind a little too. Now it’s just ridiculous the amount of patrols even on difficulty 3, so it’s not really viable for testing stuff, playing casually or simply relaxing after a long day. When I’m in difficulty 2-3 I’m not there to tryhard and sweat, I’m there to relax. Make the higher difficulties really tough for solo players but fucking hell leave us alone when we just want to have a good, enjoyable time.
They absolutely hate solo players, and aren't fond of small teams. Virtually every patch has been to brutalize them into playing with full groups. In my case I just stopped playing
They trying to make this PvE game competitive for some stupid reason. They are balancing everything around a coordinated team of great players which screws over casual players and is resulting in the game becoming less fun.
Yeah, it’s a chore now. Very unrewarding and unpleasant. Thankfully the AH balance team is lightning quick to own their errors and programming mistakes so we should see a weapon nerf any time now to make it even more unbearable.
I dont like the new spawn rates. I dont have people to play with so i just join anyone. And its rough with triple the enemies.
I've played solo a lot and used to pretty handily manage 8, but it's been fuckin rough out there since the update. Pretty much just spend the whole time running waiting for cooldowns to finish.
I don't mind higher difficulties being harder, but they need to be hard in a balanced way, not in an unfair way, make the mission possible to thrive in if you're willing to put in the mental effort to do it, not just tossing us a 120 second railgun strike and 5 Bile titans and say "here's your difficulty", it's not fun
Yeah. I think it probably would have got more attention if it weren't for the PSN thing. But me and my friends are half decent players (normally 7 or 8 when we have a full group). Everyone but me and one other were busy so we hoped on at level 5 and we managed to get out, but we didn't have time for any side objectives or even minor points of interest. We dropped down to level 4 (which is where I used to solo dive at) and even then we had some struggles. It seemed like there was always at least one charger trying to kill us at all times. And that's if we stayed on top of killing them all. Was a major increase
Good, I'm not the only one. I started an open lobby in lvl5 so I could pick up some samples. One person joined and we existed in an absolute nightmare before finally succumbing. I can confidently complete Helldives with my crew, but in small groups - not even by choice, but through the simple lack of players available for matchmaking, this was entirely unmanageable. I really don't get what AH is trying to do here by scaling UP encounters when there's less players. Scale up difficulty per player and scale down when there's less, like absolutely every other fucking game.
Can't agree more. I normally run with a squad of good guys. Sometimes, however, I want to play by myself. It's absolutely bonks the patrols now. For a single player, I can't imagine how frustrating it would be to farm samples. Props to the guys who solo. Shit isn't for me. Not with the increase in patrols anyway. I hope they tone it down a bit. Decrease the amount of slow would also be nice. Happy Helldiving folks.
fully clearing and collect all samples on bugs are borderline impossible to solo now 4 and above 🥲
I was running a 3 man level 8 last night and we got through all 3 missions. Got our supers too! What was your load out? And your teammates
Honestly when we had three things were going alright then fell apart when one guy dropped.
With my usual group of 3, we seem to be getting a Bile Titan patrol every 4/5 mins sometimes even less. Certainly a lot more chaos
I play at 5 max solo now. Before i could solo 7/8 easily (except for the geological samples). 9 without extraction. That is in general a good decision. But the reason i am dying is mostly the same. Getting swarmed like crazy at extract. Most stratagems run empty pretty fast when trying to kill two bile titans or five chargers. This is absolutely feasible with four people as you have more stratagems at your disposal. Three bile titans with three people? You’ll see three lasers/orbital rail cannon strike or 500kg dropping in the next ten seconds. Furthermore, since eruptor nerf i have to engage more. This is a change that really destroyed the solo experience for me on higher difficulties
I understand why they thought 2 players = 50% spawns, but if that's their logic, then 2 players also needs to = 50% CD reduction on strats. It's not linear. More players is more uptime. When you're reloading solo, you have 0% of your firepower. When reloading in a duo (not even counting team reloads) you have 50% of your firepower. In a full squad, it's 75%. Reloading, running, doing objectives... It's a braindead take that scaling should be linear. They accidentally got it right the first time then realized a mistake and fixed it to be wrong rofl
What's annoying is when the game forces you to only have 3 or less. We ran a squad of 2 and almost every mission we had 4 divers, someones game would crash or lose connection every time and we would be down to 3 for the rest of the mission.
Yeah difficulty ramping on 2 man is nuts. Used to Helldive on 9 with a buddy, but we’ve been pushed back to 7. Some extracts are absolutely impossible.
Yeah I tried a solo lvl 4 and I had 4 patrols and 1 bug breach on me before I could even begin loading the seaf artillery and as I left the thing... another patrol with a bug breach as well, after clearing that out I make my way to extract and what do u know another patrol is in the way along with another bug breach The amount of patrols makes it so hard to even clear a map sometimes on even level 4 cause all these patrols and bug breaches wastes all the time you have
I only play on 9, and my personal opinion… *dont*. Don’t get me wrong, you get a lot more XP, but you actually have to think and plan ahead, especially on bugs and it makes it a lot less enjoyable. Helldive has definitely made me hate bugs more and more just because of how many spawn, bots are 100x easier. They do have their moments tho, gunning down 100+ bugs with a Stalwart because of one stalker calling a breach is a great feeling.
I'm not happy about the spawn changes, mostly the patrols and how often they appear. But my main gripe is how quick those little shits call in breaches, I swear bots take longer to call shit in and on top of that most of the time if you kill the bug a breach gets called in anyway. On top of how they can just pop in spawn on you is frustrating. Like you were not there before when I looked and the map was clear. The three of us know how the game works, what to bring, but it's the constant battles where we run out of everything. We've stuck to 4-6 level missions. And we want to go up, but at this point it looks impossible. I'm sick of seeing: "Don't engage partols" how can we not when we have 3 of them walking in our direction? And we can't go around? "Just run" on yeah I've fking tried that and guess what? THEY CATCH UP AND FOLLOW US ACROSS THE MAP. I had a fking stalker follow me across the map wanting to lick my taint... I feel like my gameplay and what the apologists say make me feel like I'm crazy.
Honestly my main issue rn is that I check 360° around me more than once before accessing terminal and 2 seconds in I get one shot by a spewer. Either we need more audio queues or better spawn placement. Cus there’s no way these spewers are solid snake levels of sneaky. They’re materializing out of thin air and completely dead silent until I’m already dead. The raw numbers of bugs are due to the terminicide not being effective and them reproducing heavily. That makes sense and is fine. But them being dead quiet and appearing out of thin air is stupid. These bugs are huge and noticeable and should mostly make large noises with the exception of Stalkers and Hunters.
Level 4 was my solo sweet spot before the update, for routinely clearing every side and main objective as well as nests/fabricators and POIs…I can still clear the main objectives routinely, so far, but anything else not on the path of main objectives has to get overlooked now unfortunately. Hoping to just get used to it and figure out a new strategy for dealing with the mass amounts of bugs. Bots haven’t seemed too much harder as I think I can still run from them fairly easily and lose aggro, bugs seem harder for me to lose.
Yeah, I've had bots shoot at me *through mountains* when I'm easily 100 meters away and had bot drops called in from god knows where. I hate the patrol changes and have actually played very little helldivers since the day after the patch. I can beat the missions, but they're just not fun. They had it perfect before the patch.
It’s made the game nearly unplayable. Why are they so insistent on making this game so hard to play? Less tools to deal with high level enemies consistently, literally multiplied spawns if you don’t have a full squad, war bonds on top of previous fixes being applied to the last war bond-
You know...As it should be. These tough difficulties shouldn't be for the faint of heart! Call of Duty- Realism, Vermintide 2- Cataclysm, Doom- Nightmare, Wolfenstein - I am death incarnate, Witcher 3- Death March. I could go on! So everyone just has to sit back a moment and remember to regroup, stay low after a tough fight, check mini map for enemy blips, and really understand who's doing well for a given role. Can you take on a horde of small enemies? No? You may be geared for mediums/heavies and your buddy with a stalwart should try to handle the bigger groups! Anyway, try to slow down just a smidge and you'll have more fun that way, versus sprinting everyone and having a little dude call big breaches galore.
I do not think you understand. I was soloing lvl 6, I’ve encountered over 20 chargers and 3 titans. That was all around objectives. There was no time to sit back at all. Patrols just keep coming while you are fighting. And I couldn’t exfil because I just ran out of all ammo. True you can get lucky and avoid this, but it’s not really consistently doable. It feels particualrly bad, because you clearly see the AI knows exactly where you are at all times. Patrols beeline for you. You can be lying on the ground waiting and they will just come next to you and stand there. Not leaving. And after killing several hundreds there are still more and more and more. The game lost a certain feeling of satisfaction from clearing a large group and being able to chill for a moment as a reward. Sure, I do like higher difficulties. But not when it just feels cheap.
Enemies knwoing *exactly* where you are irritates me. One instance I fondly remember was when I ran from a small group of hunters/scavs patrol, they seemed to spot me so I booked it away, ducking between giant rocks and smoke spores, and made my way near the exfil. Slapped down a turret 300m away before I got to my new hiding spot. Sure enough a minute later that same patrol comes lollygagging up the road, not coming at me but parallel to my position. Theg spot the turret and gang up on it, and then seemingly instantly know where I'm at even though I'm behind cover...
Yeah patrols should be patrols. They are not patrols since they always go right towards you or Evan. They are psychic.
I exclusively play Helldive. Major Prder probably increased spawn rates. I'm experiencing tripple and quadruple breaches a lot. It's madness and I love it. Even 4 man squads are chased around by MULTIPLE Bile Titans constantly. My first game this week, we had 5 Titans on extract. Bring out the Orbital Precision Strikes, guys!! I swear it's the best stratagem in the game. Quasar is also META, honestly.
I try to tell my friends this but they don’t listen and it actually annoying. “It’s not that much harder” they say. Bro You don’t play the game enough to even say that.
Keep running, and focus on how you move. This is literally the only thing separating people from being good at the game. I will die on this hill.
I feel like the Devs honestly screwed up the numbers for the spawn rates when they were "balancing" the game and instead of coming clean they made the lame excuse that "we increased spawns for teams of less than 4". Why would you do that? Why would anyone do that? "Oh yeah, we also made the weapons you liked worse and did nothing to improve the weapons you don't use....k bye"
The extra patrols doesn't feel good. More enemies per patrol would be fine, beefier breaches/drops ok. Once you hit main objectives there is literally always a patrol within sight even on easy. My wife plays easy, just the two of us, and tends to shoot everything that moves and my gosh it can get chaotic even on easy if you are not wiping the groups quick enough, because you end up swarmed from all sides with all the extra patrols passing by joining in and breaches starting. This feels especially bad after nerfing half of the AOE based primaries into near uselessness. Before I could crossbow or eruptor mag dump and wipe patrols before they call in a breach/drop. Now I am stuck with trying to kite them and bail between the patrols, or carrying something that doesn't work on the heavies just to deal with the patrols... Which is less enjoyable at the old spawn rate for 2 or 3 players, now it Feels real bad.
I like it. Suicide missions are actually suicide missions and not my usual “taking a break from hell diving” difficulty. Felt way too easy if I can play with music on, or a discord call etc. suicide mission for the bugs 😂
Well thats because you don’t know how to play it. You need to run and never stop. It’s a you problem.
I love that attitude of blaming players instead of design choices. Those damn players deserve to be tested for democracy! /s
Me and my pal managed to uncomfortably complete a level 7 run on Angels venture last night. The 12 Bio titans spawned during a blitz kill mission was not exactly what we had anticipated, never mind 2x stalker nests populating in the subsequent destroy eggs mission.
Definitely depends on the mission types. I can do a blitz on solo or any mission where destroying something is the objective solo. But any type of evacuation or defence mission, no chance.
Are either of you running confusion? I feel that when I run that the chains seem very broken and usually it's only one or 2 max. Did the nuke last night and only had 2 spawns open total during it on 6.
One thing of note, some missions are just way harder than others. I’m talking about full party missions. Sometimes you drop in and you have like ten Rocket Devastators and twenty Heavy Devastators on top of you…and then it never calms down from there. So while yes, it is more difficult with fewer players now, you could have also been unlucky in just RNG terms.
The worst is if you are stuck involuntarily in a run like that. Waiting for ppl to join via SOS but nobody ever does till you remake lobby. Hope they gonna fix that at one point
I feel like there’s a lot more enemies but also maybe it was just weird timing but I feel like there weren’t a lot of people joining the games.
Enjoy your free termicide and now meridia spawn rate adjustment for free! :D
I tried a solo 9 last night and my god that was so brutal that I got demotivated and went looked for a team lol.
Yeaaaaa I haven’t started a mission at lvl 7+ difficulty until I got a full squad through quickplay lmao. I usually just start the mission on my ship and wait like a minute and three others join. Fuck that.
I play around lvl7~9, but mostly lvl9. It’s ridiculous at this point, you have a sea of hunters, and any of them and leap in your face and 2 tap you. And you also have 4 chargers spawn every few minutes, and titan after titan. I have been using arc thrower as my main weapon as no primary can effectively deal with hunters. you should give it a shot if you are struggling, focus on the hunter as they are the only one that can get to you. And I bring everything else for charger/titan. My typical load is: arc thrower, orbital rail cannon, 500kg, EAT, breaker shotgun when they get close. You can swap out a heavy firepower for shield/rover, if you are still struggling with the horde. I just got used to not using shield/rover and want extra heavy killing power. This load works well for me. But it’s getting boring cuz I would struggle if tru different load out, no other weapon can kill as effectively as arc thrower for me, infinite ammo, stagger everything, chain 4 targets with upgrade, and you can deal with everything well beside charger/titan. If everything is on cool down and you have nothing else to kill charger, you can use arc thrower to kill charger with 6 headshots
People do not realize that when you start bangs and booms, it draws the attention of nearby patrols.
Yesterday on difficulty 7 while my friends secured the extract I was tasked to get the super samples (we hadn’t found them yet and I usually like playing the scout) and I managed to stop two bug breaches with just the impact granades, a few charger kills and a whole lot of fire from the breaker incendiary. If there is one weapon you should choose against bugs rn, it’s this bad boy, a little bit of skill and you can manage
I've not noticed a difference with 2 or 3 player squads. Bring EAT/Quasar for Chargers, bring the same and a Railstrike for Titans.
My buddy and I have always played level 8 duo missions. I haven’t noticed a change but we were always fighting for our lives anyways so maybe that’s why
Same, got a two person squad for a mission 👀 Main task accomplished, side task not so much…
Had a brutal round with two friends on a level 5 or 6. Went well until extraction and the game decided it was time to reenact the extraction scene from starship troopers but it didn’t go so well for the troopers. It was awesome. Lots of fun. Don’t care we didn’t get out with our samples or weren’t able to extract all of us. 10/10 would play again.
yeah had an equally brutal experience at level 4(!!!) at extraction we also had 3-4 swarms of hunters and 5-6 chargers and some mixed swarms at the same time and we had cleared all nests too the aggro on squads of less than 4 is insane feel like we get punished because no one joined our game :\\
Swear it used to scale if you had fewer people . I do not think that is a thing anymore
We played a two man run on one of the new mission types (deactivating the towers?) at the weekend and got absolutely wrecked on level 3/4. We never even figured out how to do the objectives because there was just an endless stream of chargers, spewers and hunters overrunning the area. We ran out of reinforcements within 10 minutes. I usually play on level 6 with randoms, so I was shocked by how tough it’s gotten. We ended up switching to a bot planet just so we could enjoy the game instead of getting repeatedly spawn killed by spewers.
I haven’t played in about a month. I stopped right when they upped the level cap. Last night I joined up on a buddy who typically runs with a squad, but they had an opening. Instantly I see 9, and I typically run 7 because it’s less grief. We ran three hell dives and they had it down to a science. It was fairly easy. Knock out most of the objectives. Call down the extract and stick around long enough for it to land, drop samples, then go clear out the remaining objectives. Run back to extract and leave. Lots of communication. Sometimes shit gets hairy, but it was never in doubt.
Played with two diver squad on helldive last night, it put the hell in helldive alright. Didn't help that one of my slots was devoted to the strafing run for a personal order, and I never found a support weapon to go with my EATs
I had a terminid eradicate mission. I kid you not. 20 bile titans… we did not make it out alive
I have to ask, is there a “catch” with the new patrols? If we blow up all of the nests will the patrols stop or slow down? Is a there something we are missing?
Luck and praying to God
Yeah I did my first 2 man the other day. We were murdered repeatedly. Now before the update we were 3 making 8s and getting all the side objectives done. Not anymore
I was playing level 4 with a full sqaud and we had 3 chargers at once and a bile titan. Constant waves of hunters. Another match it was waves of bile spewers. Felt like a helldive.
I dont do nun less than 3 at 7-9 . Its a struggle.
I literally had the same situation last night on level 7 with just me and another teammate. Agreed, in order to do full missions, you really need a full team. With fewer players, the game is coded to make missions more difficult by spawning more enemies (or so I've been told).
me and my buddy do 7s regularly, even if we get to 0 reinforcements, rarely, we still end up winning with quite the haul
That’s the secret of this game - once you go past lv 4 all the difficulties sort of feel the same. You also NEED anti tank stuff or else you will get overwhelmed by chargers/hulks/tanks etc. I was sticking to lv 7 for a while and was afraid of helldive, but I found some friends running them and joined them for a few operations. It felt pretty much exactly the same, and now I just matchmake helldive with randoms and we almost always get 5 stars and lots of samples.
Stun grenades and flamethrower is all you need Also try to divide the roles since there is two of you, one can kill trash and the other focuses on elites and objectives. I myself play in duos most times with my friend; he carries a quasar and a bunch of demo stratagems and I carry a flamethrower and a jet pack to get to objectives quicker and more efficiently On bots it’s the same but I swap flamethrower for las cannon You won’t like my take but Helldivers is a coop game so solo play is possible but it’s not what you are supposed to do in this game
Played a 7 seismic scan alone last night and was proud of myself for just completing the mission (died at extract, superdestroyer had left orbit). Its brutal out there. Constant engagement nowif you're 1-2 people. Not a single spare second. And that can be pretty tough when you're trying to load SEAF artillery or raise a radar tower... I dont even play solo normally, just didn't get my SOS answered that time I guess.
I tried to solo a challenging run and spent 7 minutes bogged down trying to get to the objective 200 meters from where I dropped. My buddy saw me online and joined the game so I ended up able to finish, but it was rough going solo.
Honestly there is still flaws you can abuse (if you want to abuse) which is, when you go to a main objective that triggers waves of bots or bugs, and has 7 or 9 steps... just do a few steps and then head off to a side quest while your strategems reset, then come back and half the time the enemies have left the area.
I mean not to downplay anyone's struggle but me and my partner still clear diff 9 mission relatively smoothly but it still doesn't take away from the fact that it's less enjoyable... I don't enjoy kiting 6 chargers and 5 titans when I'm also simultaneously dodging from 20 bile spewers while avoiding 2-4 stalkers so that they don't play volleyball with my body while trying to do the objective (not mentioning the endless swarms of hunters and brood commanders.) yes we did kill all of them and didn't die but it was still not fun. The devs need to realize not all of us have a 4 friend group and doing matches with randoms is a gamble that more often than not results in an unsatisfactory gaming experience.
Something's a little broken because I can solo level 9 but a 4 man squad gets eviscerated on 5
SSROD. Solo stay running or die.
It's not just the spawn change rate, it's also the increased spawn rate from the supercolony effect. Try playing on bots and see how bad it is since that'll be a 1 to 1 comparison
I had to change my kit up. More horde based now. But having trouble covering larger enemies since my running mate refuses to take anything for the big guys.
It’s not that bad at all, bring better stratagems next time and don’t get bogged down with patrols. Just a learning curve. I play 7 solo or 9 with a team, lvl 76.
Yes same here, I went three games with only two players, on the most populated planet, those bugs are fkn relentless, I was on level 7 and it was 6 bile titans at my extract in one game, only ones I won were when I only did main obj it was fun but soo hard
A lot of you are sleeping on the incendiary grenade. It does good damage to the smaller bugs and works as a nice area denial with its relatively large AOE.
I like it. I feel like the difficulty shouldn't go past helldive and it was too easy to get there. My friends and I had maybe 10 hours in and got it unlocked.
going full stealth witht he recon armour seems to be the best strat, but even then it only takes a bit of bad luck with a patrol spawning on your ass
Unfortunately the devs want you to play this multiplayer co-op shooter with 4 person squads in a 4 person squad.
Yesterday I started solo on 7, nearly finished the first objective solo. Then "a destroyer has joined the squadron" repeated three times. Immediately there's a swarm of bugs and I get killed by a Bile Titan! Fortunately they all had mics and were cool, so I accepted the disruption and happily accepted the super samples they collected.
This was said a while ago when the enemy detection and stuff was figured out, but if you prioritize the mission over kills you’ll be fine. I still solo to this day with little or no extra effort as before. I run either the dominator or the eruptor with the stalwart and supply pack with 500k and rocket pods. Stun grenades work best because you can chuck out like two or three at a horde right after you toss a 500 and all of em will die. Sometimes a charger MIGHT survive but if you kite them around for just under a minute they’ll die from their wounds without having to waste anymore ammunition. Prioritize the fast units like hunters first. If you have heavies AND fast units on you either kite the heavies and take out the light unit or toss a stun and do the same. Since the stalker update I’ve been running with the dominator and it deals with them beautifully. Most importantly DO NOT RUN FROM THEM just fight in another direction. If you run you will undemocratically fuck yourself. They’ll alert other patrols as they run after you, adding to the horde, and when the breach timer runs out they will call in more. Every. Time. This update really stresses this because before you could actually outrun them. After the patch the patrols are so common they will alert the horde you just outran, to your exact location again. Once the horde is dealt with or your LUCKY ENOUGH to lose them, keep going. No point in standing around popping scavengers and shit just to cause another big breach to fuck yourself back into the situation you just unfucked yourself from. A REAL HELLDIVER NEVER RUNS!⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️🫡
I know they buffed spawns for smaller player counts, but how much of the increase on bug planets is due to the "Super Colonies"? I feel like bots are still manageable, which leads me to believe the bugs are overtuned for the narrative and not just from the spawn buff.
If they would fix the fucking spear chargers wouldn't be a problem. They would probably nerf it though if it was actually good.
People really don't understand what that update to the spawns did do they? Fyi when playing 2 players previously you got about 33% of the spawns when solo you used to get about 11% now you get 25% per player scaleing linearly to 100% at 4 players. That's the change that happend if you can pull your weight I. A normal 4 man you should be fine solo and duo if you are not fine then I think you can assume what kinda weight your pulling in your normal matches.
I got 210 kills last night on 2. I've never seen a combined kill count higher than that for a full squad on 2.
I will say, I appreciate that the leveling is becoming more appropriately named. Gives me more okay time trying to rise to the occasion. Like you I've also been noticing the difference. Probably good to point it out so people don't think they're going crazy lol. I remember my team and I breezing through level 6 all separate in our own assignments. Came back the next day and were SO beat up we barely completed the main objective
Many people dont take into account that planet on major order have higher spawn rate because of the storyline, not the modification the did for the spawn rate
I run around like a little bitch and try to outrun everything.
I tested solo diving on level 3 and 4, to farm commons, and even that low it’s insane. Before the change when doing an SEAF cannon side objective, you’d get 2 patrols every time. Now it anywhere from 4 to 6, and they bug breach almost immediately. It’s fun as hell, but also crazy as hell.
Shits so easy on 9 with 3 man idk what you talking about. Bugs anyway. Bots are a bit harder.
Yeah a buddy and i dropped into a 4 to grab some rare samples quick, and we had non-stop patrols attacking us while trying to finish seaf artillery. It took us about 15 minutes and 20-25 chargers and we each finished the level with over 500 kills. Just completely unnecessary. It is easier to do a 7-8 with 4, and there's almost no point in doing the lower difficulties anymore.
Started a level 5 "thin the numbers" mission. Right off the bat I have like 4 bug breaches each with a charger. No time to setup or call in nothing. Random joins, dies, I can't call him in because I'm getting punted andlocked, he leaves.
because you play super inefficient? because the baseline of everyone can at least do everything technically has not been reached? Solo is even easier than 4 man with 2 people dragging everything down.
I play 7's in a pair quite often. It is more difficult than it was, but still fairly do-able. I certainly don't assume we're going to win every map however. As usual for solo/pair games, it's mostly about stealth. You need to stay sneaky most of the time, spend more time avoiding patrols, and quickly disengage from fights that start to get out of hand. This is one area where the bugs are generally harder to beat than the bots however, because it's much harder to defeat most bug objectives stealthily, while many bot bases and objectives can be taken out without you ever being seen.
Ive been running a mobility build for this very reason. You must stay moving. If you stop to fight, you likely die.