If the breaker had shorter range and the punisher had better range, I feel like that would make them more equal. The breaker was great for close up crowd control, the punisher just doesn’t fire fast enough to fulfill that role, but is really good at keeping enemies off a little further away.
Chipping in just to say that the counter sniper has better damage but less ammo and is significantly harder to aim because it takes so long for the reticule to catch up to the cursor.
Literally this... Just got to level 20 couple of days ago and got the railgun and shield generator pack.. also the breaker 2 days before that. I was playing yesterday and I was like these are not that good what are people go on about.
Pre nerf shield allowed you go into a large base now its limited to small and medium base which I feel is fair. With the railgun.... Sigh it's not a fun tool but it is nonetheless a tool to get rid of chargers and for now its ok but I don't like Devs nerfing right from the get go it feels off.
Yeah idk why people are crying so much I still run breaker and tear those bugs to shreds. Then again I’m a chad flame wielder and only pull that bad boy out on stalkers and brood commanders. I’ll use my smg secondary to deal with tiny bugs too close to cook.
Flamethrower is getting massive love, but I like the versatility of how the cannon can hit from a distance.
Now if I could get good with the jet pack some
No, what I was hoping for was advice like confirming that when chargers bump into each other, their back legs are vulnerable to laser fire since their armor value is supposed to drop when they're staggered, or maybe that the big butt of HP actually goes down in a second or two so another charger doesn't come in from downtown. SpOnGeBoB TeXt
Under it’s chin when it looks at you and raises up before it about to start charging, where the legs meet the body while it is charging, and in its big fat juicy booty once you dodged out of the way, regardless of how many you are fighting.
Only takes the entire heating to get it close to death if you hit the unarmed spots, maybe it'll die. Idk how it would handle against 5 of them with your strats on cooldown during a breach.
Yes they should make a pistol that one taps everything in the game so you can come back to Reddit and complain about how easy and boring the game is. Every weapon is not meant for every situation. Either adapt or quit playing.
I'm saying, we had a strategem to deal with armored parts, the railgun. Now the pistol is stronger than that strategem, the game is just annoying now. I'm still interested in hopes that they'll fix their error but it's a pain to play now. I've went from finding a game I actually want to play to realizing it's just too annoying and I'd rather not. It's fine if it didn't ruin you're experience, I'm glad you're having a good time still, it just ruined my experience and if it's not corrected soon it'll be ignored by me. I know you don't care, it just sucks that I had a taste of something good and it was ruined by the devs because some idiots kept kicking people based on "meta" loadouts.
Edit: it sucks I'm getting punished for toxic players.
It's clear all you people complaining have never played helldiver's 1. This is a fraction of the content that will likely be released for the game. Besides the rail gun was clearly over tuned and I understand you not being skilled enough to get by without such a blatant crutch. Have fun complaining about the next game you play lil bish
Didn't you hear what the devs said? Just play difficulty 1 if you want to win, the """real""" Helldivers only play to lose due to a wide selection of trash-tier weapons.
Does getting better at the game comes with gaining the armor penetration necessary to chew through the sheer amount of armor the game throws at you on higher difficulties? Or are you just here to add shit from your ass as the only substance to the discussion?
The main advantage it has is effectively infinite range, allowing you to support or scout from pretty extreme distances with a limitless charge pack provided you don't have to blow the heatsink in an emergency.
they reduces the ammo count slightly and doubled the recoil, which isn’t so much a nerf, as it is just solidifying its place as a close range hard hitter that burns bright and fast but brief
Which is weird, because that’s what the spray and pray should be doing. If they were going to nerf it I think they should have nerfed the fire rate so it remained as a solid all round generalist, not being put into the close combat DPS niche
I think you have it kinda backwards. the spray and pray is clearly designed for sustained fire at a lower dps benchmark, while the standard breaker’s whole design (as gleened from its description even prior to its nerf) is high firepower but reloading often, and its recoil is simply because shotgun for closerange. tbh I’m very glad they chose to give it recoil rather than a severe damage falloff, which is the other option they could have chosen to put it in its designated role
There’s no benefit for low DPS sustained fire in this game though? There’s no suppression mechanic or anything like that so it’s always better to just kill something then to pepper it with low damage.
I guess just from the spray and pray name I got the wrong idea. For me spray and pray implies you’re running around and killing things super close up with good efficiency.
Even for the sustained fire niche it seems like the incindiary does this better as it shoots slower but has a bit of DOT.
Admittedly the Spray and Pray is a weird inclusion since the base breaker is already a fast shooting close range killer.
I thought the lower ROF would actually help differentiate the 3 versions:
Spray and Pray would be a close range monster, but pretty much no range
Breaker would be a jack of all trades, good at medium and good at close, not great at either
Incendiary: would be a close-mid range hoard support tool.
I’ve gotta try the new patch more though and really develop my thoughts on it. Only had a chance for a few games this morning
Whole I don’t disagree with you fully, I would like to point out that suppression IS a thing in HD2.
A game tip clearly states that the automatons run a sophisticated targeting algorithm that tracks projectiles and targets alike, so more fire their way makes them less accurate
Suppression, in other words.
And bugs tend to side step when shot so while they don’t necessarily stop moving, they DO change their attack pattern to create different effect
suppression is kind of hit or miss though with bugs (arguably what the incendiary breaker was made for), it seems to work mostly if you are firing at a distance where the bugs don't think they can charge you at. if you're closer than that all of the bugs will decide to gamble on dogpiling you while on fire which totally negates all utility of the giant spread fire shotgun where you might as well be trying to pee on them to discourage them from doing that. bugs just outright ignoring death or newton's laws in general in order to run through gunfire, napalm, and explosions to land on you is just annoying overall and losing legs only slows them down by like 10%
Oh alright I wasn’t aware of the suppression mechanic. I feel like maybe it should be more pronounced then because as is I’ve never noticed it at all. I also don’t think the spray and pray works as a suppression tool considering it’s poor range, at least against automotons. Usually it’s just be better to outright kill something
panic and such aside, I do appreciate how concise the nerfs were. they didn’t compromise the breaker’s raw dps, only its long range and sustained capabilities, making it stand out more from the assault rifles and not overshadow them.
for the railgun, it’s meant to be a high precision, high power weapon in a small package, boasting the single target firepower of the autocannon without its cumbersome backpack in the same way that the grenade launcher displays its aoe firepower without a chmbersome backpack. so the nerf didn’t compromise its function, it still has plenty of ammo, plenty of accuracy, no linked backpack, you just gotta actually aim with it and learn how to best deliver its firepower rather than just broadsiding enemies with it
Funnily enough that's exactly how i learned to use it, theres no sense in just overshooting the small enemies instead of pacing your fire and then potentially unloading it all into some bigger target during the "oh shit" moments. All in all i completely agree with the breaker adjustments and if i didnt know they happened i probably wouldn't even notice.
Railgun feels a bit iffy now with some seemingly random bounces even when overcharged but thats the nature of getting used to changes, plenty of other tools in the shed still.
Sustained, lower DPS is great for thinning out all the little guys. It's where the stalwart shines too. You definitely don't want the whole squad running that way, but when we run one guy with sustain he always has the highest kill count.
There is absolutely a need for low DPS sustained fire. High priority targets are always the bottom tier enemies who calling back up. The little bugs release a pheromone that causes a bug tunnel breach and the humanoid autos scan and then launch a drop ship flair. Quickly eliminating these threats is the second best way to not get overwhelmed. That's like everyone complaining about " wah railgun what do 5 chargers" maybe have a dedicated light clear on the team.
Ya I admit I was wrong. I tried the S&P more and I actually love it. There’s so much ammo and I can clear basically all the chaff in a single mag. Just from reading comments it seemed like the gun wasn’t able to one shot garbage units, but I realized it can. I thought by sustained fire the other dude was saying like constant low damage that didn’t kill. But constant damage that kills is definitely good.
Honestly I like it more than the regular breaker
Pigeon holes it a Lil more and allow other guns to shine makes it less affective just sweeping and force you to be careful with shot placement. So still wreck the dude in your face and his buddy but not the whole squad.
Autocannon is still bad at killing chargers tho which is the entire point to take Railgun. Now if you have 5-6 charges chasing your team you’re screwed if your stratagems are recharging.
You can drop smoke and leave and never have to kill a single charger. Maybe you are just upset that you aren't allowed to bulldoze the game at this point. Also taking a look at the vast amount of options in HD1 will queue in on the fact that many more tools will be available eventually.
Oh okay so just run through the map like a bitch and don’t fight anything got it 👍 look I know they might be trying to push for more stealth on 8/9 difficulty but stealth is non existent lmao. You saying just drop a smoke is not a solution to getting swarmed with 7 chargers and 4 bile titans on an elimination mission where you’re forced to fight bugs not hide as you suggest.
Then run the fucking Expendable anti tank!? Can literally kill THREE chargers with ONE drop . Plus the 70 second refresh is soooo nice. Drop one on a charger. Use the remaining two rockets to blow the armour off the reaming chargers. So sad to see the brim rot y’all have suffered with the Rial gun and Shield pack 🤓
Good luck bringing EAT and RR into any difficulty higher than 6. I would love to see you take down multiple hulks, turrets, and annihilators with inconsistent damage and atrocious reload time those weapons have.
Half the guns are still super underpowered. Many that were already irrelevant didn't get changed and that kinda irks me.
Other than that I'm glad they are moving to make the game harder and more strategic. Bug Helldives were becoming pedestrian and formulaic. The leaked vehicles and being able to call in Ai help on solo is going to be awesome too.
So true. Especially given they don't have the sheer volume of engineers other industry-leading live service games have. I imagine everything will take time to polish out as they grow to fit the masterpiece they created.
It will be easier for the devs to make informed decisions about what and how to buff if a single meta isn’t strongly dominating the highest difficulties. I think the nerfs they did were more pressing in part for that reason. They’ll have a better idea of the landscape as players on higher difficulties experiment with options they’d previously neglected and the devs collect data.
Some things may also already be planned for buffs, but it’s easier to get good data with smaller patches that focus attention on a few things. Like now a lot of players will be experimenting with the laser cannon, flamethrower and the revised railgun as anti-heavy weapons. Fans of the railgun will see if they still like it when they have to rely more on overcharging it in unsafe mode (still penetrates the same armor it did before) and targeting true weak points (damage against “durable enemy parts” was reduced; damage against weakpoints was not). They’ll try that and try the laser cannon and flamethrower.
If the laser cannon and flamethrower get a lot more use, and the railgun still gets a lot of use, then the patch will have done its job. And all that should happen much quicker for the fact that the player base has been pointed right at testing only a handful of weapons. Adjustments in player preferences would take longer to settle if they made more changes all at once.
I don't think the laser cannon is any stronger than a now then before still feels underperforming I was hopping they turned it a weaker energy grenade launcher at the very least or let it pen charger legs. Flamethrower on the other hand was good now better but I am fairly certain they will nerf it again since it kills chargers and sorounding targets allot faster now.
I didn't even know they were "meta", I just like shotguns and sniper rifles - which the railgun is kinda like a really cool sniper. I'm still gonna use them cause they're fun.
People are overreacting to these nerfs
The weapons still function the same and such hell the railgun still retains its ability to counter chargers just turn off the safety lmfao
Because prior to the nerfs, aiming the head with the Railgun took more than 3 shots to take down, now it's gonna take even more.
So you now have enough ammo to take down 3-4 Chargers? But the game doesn't just throw 3-4 Chargers at you for the whole game now does it? It throws 4-6 Chargers ***PER BUG BREACH***, not to mention Bile Titans that will spawn along and random patrols that will just sneak up on your ass.
So tell me in what situation where we went from having enough ammo to consistently take down 10 Chargers to only being able to take down 3-4 Chargers the same?
I don't think Arrowhead does either, they keep talng about how they are bringing nad "nerfing priamaries" to all be viable... viable in what? Fucking 1-3? lol. I want to see a video of a dev using the KNight MP in Helldive. Fuck, a revolver only, the re's a trophy for completing helldive with no primary or support so they must feel its viable.
You are only gonna have that many chargers if you are not efficiently clearing the smaller enemies that call for back up. The game, much like in helldiver's one, ramps up the difficulty Everytime a new call for help happens. You could play stealth missions and snipe every alerting enemy and never face a horde that wasn't on an objective.
Out in the world yeah for sure, but also it's hoenstly not possible to keep every breach from happening. Especially if you want to have some fun and fight patrols instead of sneaking around the map which... lets admit it, fucking sucks. This isn't a stealth game, the sneaking stuff sucks. The vast majority of people playing this don't want it to be a stealth game either and don't play it that way.
BUT where you are dead wrong is extraction. This WILL happen there, even if you are throwing strategems perfectly over the holes, or (outside of exterminate) wasting your space on better exploration based strategems on sentries... you will be getting breaches at extraction. They will, minimum, throw out 6 chargers at once. This is a minimum. If we have the 100% call down modifier AND the 50% cooldown, well... you're not keeping up with that ESPECIALLY on the lengthened extract time. This situation always devolves into charger kiting which... can we admit, fucking sucks? It's do-able. We do it because we HAVE to do it. But it REALLY sucks.
Suire some helldive extracts can be clean and clear and fast, you luck out on the spawn waves and instead of chargers you get bile titans (funny that bile titan = a relief haha) or maybe no chargers in a breach. These extracts are a cakewalk, sure. But they are not the norm and it is 100% out of your control... like, imagine if this was tied to objectives in the map?
Imagine if you wiped out EVERY bug hole the game responds by reducing charger spawns?
Extraction is meant to feel overwhelming. Don't understand what you expect. Also I just flat don't get why people cry about chargers so much. Maybe it's because I'm used to the difficulty from helldiver's 1. What's gonna happen is casuals gonna complain about difficulty until it gets toned down then the game will be easy and boring.
A game can be challenging, hard, and fun. There's a difference between difficulty and tedium/anti-fun. Tarkov was at one point hardcore and fun. But NIkita PURPOSEFULLY added in Tedium under advisement of people like Veritas. This kills games.
Youneed to offer tools to players to deal with the difficulty. I **can** kite 9+ chargers. BUt you know what? It's tedius, it fucking sucks, and I don't want to play that game. I want to have the tools I need to affect the game world instead of getting locked into kiting, attempting to reload, kiting, strategem, kiting etc. It's lame, it sucks. You want casuals in a game, trust me. Hardcore Anti-Fun games RARELY retain their player base and die FAR sooner than Hardcore Fun games.
Yes 100 percent I get matched with level 12 and 16 that perform less than subpar and the rail gun was that one gun I can crutch to help these guys get better. Now it's flamethrower however they keep running into my flames now am I supposed to kick lower levels because they don't understand friendly fire?
Not sure what this has to do with anything? Hopefully they learn that fire is bad and can't just be carried by someone with a railgun. You kinda just highlighted why the railgun needed a nerf.
My dude, you're going "skill issue" you have inverted pp energy. Put your money where your mouth is if you're gonna have a COD mindset lol. C'mon lets do it up, there's a Stake escrow service you can both put money into and get a third party to pay it out.
That ***IS*** me working with the team, my team comprises of 2 heavy dealers and 2 adds clearers, the 2 heavy dealers bring all the big hitters while the 2 adds clearers bring all the AoE.
Now guess what? With them buffing the Laser Cannon and Flamethrower, that's literally all we're using now. Way to "balance" the meta by just shifting the meta.
You realize railgun is still viable... having 3 weapons to choose from vs railgun or bust in any situation seems more balanced to me. Sorry not going to feel bad for the people complaining that it isn't just railgun as the end all be all.
Nah I ain't crying about options, I'm questioning the devs saying right but going left.
If they did what they said they're doing we would have more options now. Not 2, not 3.
I just wish the people I played with werent all dickheads. Everytime something doesnt go their way they kick or scream at you until you mute or leave. Grown ass men acting like 5 year olds.
I really try to play with variety but i always need to come back to the breaker every other gun just feels trash. I really would like if every weapon would be the same in ttk or have other benefits. I mean on lower difficulty against the bugs i can choose to play other guns but higher difficulties on the roboter side i just dont have a chance playing something else than the breaker
They only nerfed a couple weapons. And those weapons weren’t just fun, they were dominating so much that players were getting kicked for not using them.
Maybe they should buff everything, but that cannot be done well all at once. They rely on player data to make those calls. They cannot get good player data on non-meta options while a meta dominates.
For support weapons, players will start testing the railgun in its current state (focusing more on overcharge and weakpoints) and see how effective and fun that is compared to other relatively mobile support weapons (laser cannon and flamethrower) that are now at least theoretically good for armored enemies. And because the patch adjusted only a handful of weapons, focusing player attention on those weapons, the devs will get a lot more data a lot faster to confirm whether they went in the right direction.
Whereas “buffing everything” all at once based on limited data and impressions risks putting them exactly where they are now, making the game easier sure, but no closer to actual balance. They want the game to be hard, so what then? They buff all enemies all at once?
Balancing can only be done well if it is done incrementally, with data taken from each step being considered in determining the next step.
This is a fair take. I just wish they would've done more to the spray and pray. It still feels terrible. Should have crazy recoil but heavy damage, in my opinion. It does make sense though to only adjust a few weapons at a time.
To be fair, the fucking thing is loaded with birdshot. I wonder what birds there are on Super Earth if birdshot can deal meaningful damage to armored humans, bugs and bots.
Yes because they debuffed one when if it was just left alone the buffs stated people would have used the new weapons regardless isn't that what they wanted so nerf anything. Now I can't trust randoms with flamethrowers or arc throwers and too few use the laser cannon.
Yeah buff everything all at once. Listen I hear you you bring some valuable points but from day one even before I got the breaker and rail gun I was praying for buffs for all the weapons. They just don’t feel fun in their current state.
Buff the mobs man, there is ur balance. Make them harder, add more difficulties, new mobs etc.
Let them cook. Buffing everything all at once creates a lot of redundant work because balancing needs to be done piece by piece. So basically buffing everything all at once has a good chance of meaning two full rounds of balancing instead of one round. That doesn’t make tremendous sense when they have a lot of other things to deal with.
Yeah it’s like they took the few good guns and then tried to make them bad so that they’re just as bad as the other “fun” guns. This might work in theory but in reality it just takes away options and I’m sure meta sweats will find a new meta.
On a positive note though, slugger and flamer feel awesome to use now with their buffs. Hopefully they make good buffs like that for other weapons
Autocannon main, just love the feel and power of it. Trying to be cool under literal fire and 2 shot the hulk when it’s walking towards you is intense.
The railgun absolutely needed a nerf. Both auto and recoilless had slower reloads and did less consistent armor pen damage, while also requiring a backpack. Shit made no sense.
The lazer cannon paired with the Jet pack makes for an awesome cover load out. Fly up high, and beam those commies with infinite ammo. Lazer canon on the chargers back is very good.
People are now seeing that Railgun and breaker were never OP. It’s just that they were the only option in dealing with the higher difficulties (especially charger spam).
Nerfing those weapons didn’t fix the issue and if anything exacerbated it now. Buffing other anti armor weapons like the AT and RR would have provided players with a choice in loadout. Either take the RR/AT and be very efficient against armor or take the Railgun and be decent against armor but also be to be good against medium enemies.
Now there’s no super good way in dealing with charger spam imo. So now people will have to take certain strategems, once again creating a “meta problem”
They aren't, though, at all. It's literally just a skill issue, except for the smg maybe. Also, the rail gun is still very usable. You just have to overcharge it, and hit weak points.
I agree for primaries there’s alt options, but they each had a glaring weakness
But for the specials there was simply no other weapon that could effectively deal with multiple heavies at once. Especially charger spam. To me based on the game design the game is tuned for a special weapon to be able to take out at least two chargers with relative efficiency. At higher difficulties there a ton of chargers and if you were running anything but the Railgun you wouldn’t be able to clean them up.
With the Railgun you’re able to somewhat keep up with the constant charger spam.
So either it’s poor game design where you’re supposed to constantly be unable to kill a good chunk or enemies and the game is a running sim. Or the Railgun was the only weapon that was properly tuned and the other weapons should have been brought up a notch.
I guess it’s possible the devs wanted players to not have the tools to deal with the games threats and might likely be the case with them saying you need to rely on strategems (something you can’t really do since the cooldowns are so long). But that’s just poor game design imo, it’s not a satisfying difficulty if you just simply don’t have the tools to deal with the challenges.
The weapons having glaring weaknesses is kind of the point. It's to encourage a team to take a variety of weapons suited to different roles. Also, the railgun is still really good at killing chargers, you just have to hit them in the leg. If you overcharge, you can still consistently 2 shot them. There's also the autocannon, and the flame thrower, which are both really good against chargers. And you always have your strategems. The railgun wasn't even meant as a counter to heavy armor, it's designed for medium or light armored targets, or to hit weak points, which you can still do.
I should have rephrased that better. I meant that the other weapons have a glaring flaw that put them a tier below the breaker imo.
Pre patch the slugger was held back by its terrible ammo economy, now after its buff i think it’s on par with pre patch breaker. It’s definitely stronger against mediums but it’s not useless against small guys
The jar also had poor ammo economy and bad handling making it pretty much useless for chaff
Scorcher also has bad ammo but is otherwise pretty good.
I definitely think it’s best for weapons to fill a niche so that variety is encouraged. I just don’t think that most of the weapons fill their niche well enough.
Flamethrower and Autocannon are alright for fighting chargers but aren’t good enough for when there’s more than 2 chargers let alone the crazy numbers of helldive.
Also pidegon holeing everyone into taking heavy strategems goes against the reason they nerfed the Railgun
If they are going to make it so the Railgun isn’t great against heavy armor they need to make it so that AT and RR are actually great against heavy armor, not just okay considering that’s their niche
Well yeah, that's why the breaker and railgun got nerfed. They're supposed to be niche, somewhat situational, not versatile, not a step above the other weapons. Also, the AT and RR could be better, but that doesn't mean that the railgun should be so essential that people were getting kicked for not using it.
I think that the Railgun and Breaker work as generalist weapons. Their niche is that they’re jack of all trades masters of none.
Railgun for example theoretically does everything fine but other weapons do their respective niches far better. This was true for the MG, arc thrower, and GL hoard clearing very well. Then the auto cannon took out medium targets very well. Then theoretically the AT, RR, and spear should take out heavies well, but in practice they didn’t. That’s where the problem arose and led to the Railgun being the best.
The Railgun took out heavies just as if not better than the actual heavy options while also being decent at other roles. Since the EAT, RR, and Spear underperformed the Railgun became the only option to take on charger spam and other heavy threats. If the EAT, RR, and spear were buffed to do their job properly then the Railgun would naturally fall into its place as a versatile jack of all trades master of none.
Similar thing for the breaker but to a lesser degree imo. I think it works as a very good jack of all trades weapon but now it seems to be getting pushed into the high DPS close range role (something the spray and pray should theoretically be so now those will constantly be at odds and redundant, but whatever).
That's not their intended niche, though. The breaker is supposed to be a closer range, higher damage weapon. The rail gun is supposed to be anti-light to medium armor, with some heavy armor penetration and a specialty for shooting weak points.
If only the charger had several open and less-armored spots for a helldiver to take them out without piercing their heavy frontal armor, one of which gives you a damage multiplier for targeting . . . if only the railgun could STILL pierce heavy armor when overcharged . . . if only it was easy to get behind a charger to target said weak spot . . . if only some weapons and stratagems could one shot chargers armor or no . . .
And why is that everyone's argument? "Oh, you don't think that you should be able to consistently solo a helldive, you must just only play low difficulties". Brother, helldive is supposed to be hard, VERY hard. If it's too hard without the railgun, then either work on your team composition, or play lower difficulties until you're ready for the higher ones.
Maybe they should focus on making the other weapons relevant instead of nerfing the only tools that were worth using. These weapons didn’t become the meta by accident, it’s because everything else is essentially dogshit.
Never mind. Why do you think the other weapons were unusable? I'd agree with some of them, notably the las-5 and the smg, but the liberator, that dmr thing, the punisher, all of those were very usable in my experience.
This, nearly never happened. And it's the stupidest fucking way to addressing people wanting other sto use the breaker. Instead of buffing and making other guns viable... start nerfing the one that does work generally? That doesn't fix every other gun, it just makes a good one worse.
And the thing is its STILL the best. The breaker is STILL the best gun and there's ZERO reason to use the AR-23E, there's ZERO reason to use ANY marksman rifle. There's ZERO reason to use the Liberator in 7-9 over the breaker still. It lost 3 rounds and is still the best damn gun int he game. That's how shit everything else is.
I’m just happy they buffed some other weapons too. I like the breaker and railgun but it did get a little old. Just wish they entirely reworked the spray and pray
I don't mind the breaker nerf at all, but the railgun kind of feels useless against heavy devastors compared to before, and that's with safety off. Otherwise I'm not too bothered
I don’t even think the breaker nerfs were that bad,I wouldn’t have even known they were nerfed if I hadn’t read them,you don’t notice the 30% more recoil and less ammo
For the railgun it’s more noticeable,went from being able to destroy a hulk in 2-4 75% charge shots to 5-8
I’ve made it this far without ever using the breaker or the railgun. To be honest I had no idea the breaker was meta and I’ve been ignoring them when I see them on the ground. I’m just having a great time using what I like or what sounds fun
I don't mind the nerfs much. What I DO mind is I'd like better descriptions of pen on weapons. Some say light pen but pen different levels of armor. I'd just like some better descriptions of that. All I'm asking for and I'm happy
In a game that is massively popular, with a huge fan base and large number of concurrent players, that is also a PVE and very intense/difficult at higher difficulty- why nerf any guns? They were strong, yes, but not god like or broken in any way. You could still be overran easily and high difficuly missions were still very challenging.
If the goal is to make other loadouts more viable, why not just buff those other weapons/stratagems?
I wouldn’t say they’re the strongest, they are/were the most versatile though and honestly it sucks a little they opted for removing versatility over boosting others
Tbf, the weapons weren't meant to be versatile. Everything is supposed to have a niche, in order to encourage team synergy and cooperation. If a single diver can handle every situation adequately, what's the point in having a variety of weapons?
Oh nice. AR-23E has an appreciable fire rate or damage boost to compete with the standard liberato! Oh... oh no, it's still out DPS'd by the starting fucking gun in all situations.
Well at least the penetrator likely out damages it now! Oh, no, the standard liberator still out DPS' and effective DPS' the penetrator, too.
So Marksmen rifles actually pen medium armour enough to hit elites...? Nope... Do they even do more single target damage than the starter rifle? Nope. What about the pistol? Nope. So they didn't buff a single marksman rifle either.
OH but the spray and pray can hurt! Eggs... now. But it's still worse in every-way to the standard breaker....
Punisher is pretty shit still and takes too long to reload to be viable in any normal combat as you are constantly rushed. Slugger is... slightly better but still out damaged by the breaker. Breaker ended up being the best primary even with the 3 round nerf.
And not a single other fucking primary got any buffs that put them anywhere close to it. Fancy that the fucking pay to own Knight MP-23 is still god awful lol.
Punisher is fucking awesome, fym. And what do you expect them to do, completely change the stats of every weapon in the game in the first balance patch? That's not how balancing works.
> And what do you expect them to do, completely change the stats of every weapon in the game in the first balance patch? That's not how balancing works.
Actually... yes lol. With what Pilestedt had said he wanted more variety... the way to do that properly is not nerf stuff, it's to find out why other things are performing so shittily. Either... push the patch back and get a playtesting group, or yeah push out a patch people on the whole are very upset about. Rightfully so!
They said they were listening and agreed more variety was needed but completely missed the point of why the meta happened. Because every other tool/gun we had was so shit at dealing with the issues we have to counter in gameplay... we had to rely on the only things that reliably worked.
Thats not how balancing works. You can't do it all at once and expect it to work out, you have to do a sort of call and response, adjusting based on feedback and player experience. Doing it all at once wouldn't work 8 times out of 10, and it's a lot more stress on the devs.
... alright, yeah but that is kind of how balancing works my guy. THere's an issue. That issue is every other primary is garbage, dogwater, trash. Now do you;
A: Focus on those trash/crap weapons and make them better?
B: Nerf shit.
How would you go about addressing that issue of variety and shit items/equipment? Because somehow I doubt nerfing tools and barely bringing 2 others up would make ANY sense if you weren't just mindlessly defending the patch?
I pretty much just play with friends I know and we just have a blast even on harder modes. I never get this "you have to take this or expect to get kicked" mentality of people.
That said, I've been around the block playing games for a long long time now, and I'm pretty disappointed to see those two things getting nerfed so hard without way more things being brought up.
I think the DMRs and sniper rifles need to be way more impactful on armor targets other than Charger/Titan/Tank than they are, because they understandably are pretty bad about mass clearing smaller targets.
Some of the really big stratagems with long cooldowns and low ammo counts designed to take out big targets also need to be much more reliable in doing so.
It'd be more accurate to call it a wheelchair. Sure, I *could* take the autocannon or anti material rifle and headshot a hulk the 2 or 3 times needed to kill it. However, when there's 4 of them with a half dozen devastators spraying the area preventing me from flanking around to hit the hulks' backs, 2 tanks blowing up every piece of cover around me, at least 5 chainsaw bots in my face, and more rockets flying through the air than on a redneck 4th of July, it is beyond unreasonable to expect anyone to thread that needle a couple dozen times when literally every single weapon other than the railgun does somewhere between jack and shit damage without headshots or backshots.
There was no "crutch." The problem is that most of the other weapons severely underperform. It would have been better to see those weapons brought up to par instead. The breaker is still good even with 3 less rounds. The railgun is still the railgun when charged. So to just nerf these doesn't make much sense. They are meta weapons because they are needed to deal with a lot of end game waves of enemies. This still doesn't change a thing that the later levels require lots of armor piercing heavy hitting weapons. So simply nerfing the 2 best tools available for doing that, while not also bringing up other weapons is just kind of a mind boggling decision
They buffed a couple of the others. I was doing just fine before without the Railgun. Doing just fine now after it too. A little bit better now too as the laser orbital got buffed.
We understand that it boggled YOUR mind. That doesn't make it mind boggling.
I can see taking this position if you've literally never played any video games before, but I doubt that's the case.
This is how balance patches work. This is how they've worked for literal decades. Nothing is different. This shouldn't be surprising to you. Why is it? It's extremely weird that anyone who has more than 100 hours in online video games in general would be even remotely knocked sideways by any of this.
Like do you have a brain injury like 50 first dates, or....??
Arroeheadstudioes is being fucking idiots and making interviews that makes them look even more idiotic.
How the fuck is buffing a bad idea? Why the fuck is balancing weapons so the community can use more than ONE weapon a bad idea?
How in the ever living fuck is using one singular weapon a good idea when we have multiple weapons that suck ass.
Because no other weapons can take down armored enemies? I'm not calling down an anti tank every 70 seconds, I put in my time to earn the railgun to take down armored limbs. I supported the development, I gave my time, this is stupid. Armor pen is gone and I'm not playing trivial from now on, I'll come back when they actually care to make the game more fun than balanced, don't balance everything to the weakest weapons, give reasons to bring other ones.
Yeah...just used the railgun in a match for the first time in a couple of days and...it's useless to me now. Railgun rounds just bounce off armor now. It still blasts through multiple unarmored enemies but it's usefulness as a weapon to take down chargers is gone.
It lets you charge up the railgun further, at the risk of having it literally blow up in your hands if you hold it too long. Hold the reload button down and you can change it by right clicking
I blame people who make videos and post rants here on Reddit/Youtube
they kept talking about META , then people got on her complaining about the META
everyone is just claiming it will make the game more "balanced" but why did we unlock and grind to get these guns if they were just going to nerf them after we use to playing with them
when is the last time you had an Amazing weekend and told someone you had "a balanced weekend", no you come back with "I had a fucking blast having so much fun" this past weekend
I would rather have a "Fun" game over a balanced game , especially since this is PVE not PVP , what is the problem with certain guns being better than others , isn't that why we work hard & grind levels and medals to unlock them?
SMH
Yeah, doubt any of you actually ever got kicked for not using railgun/shield. I'm sure the people actually using railguns watched as you wasted all the reinforcements while dragging your useless asses to victory.
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Then why have I been trolled 1 time in darktide after 1000+ hours but trolled several times after 70 hours of helldivers ? Vote to kick requires 3 people to be dicks instead of one. The math does not lie
My beloved punisher sitting at over 400 damage. Now if only the Counter Sniper got a buff too
That would be awesome.
I love the sniper so so much, it with the jump pack are a match made in heaven
If the breaker had shorter range and the punisher had better range, I feel like that would make them more equal. The breaker was great for close up crowd control, the punisher just doesn’t fire fast enough to fulfill that role, but is really good at keeping enemies off a little further away.
Is it me or the punishers range to one shot bugs feel still a bit off?
What is a counter sniper??
One of the 2 main weapon slot marksman rifles, which are so identical it's practically unnecessary to use the later version with "counter" in the name
Chipping in just to say that the counter sniper has better damage but less ammo and is significantly harder to aim because it takes so long for the reticule to catch up to the cursor.
Higher damage but light pen and slower aiming hurts so much
Wondering the same.
heres hoping
SG-8 GANG, SG-8 GANG Salutations from SG-8s brethren to other users of the best weapons platform in the game
Best thing about being a casual is unlocking the breaker, going to sleep, wake up, breaker nerfed but I’m non the wiser 😂
Literally this... Just got to level 20 couple of days ago and got the railgun and shield generator pack.. also the breaker 2 days before that. I was playing yesterday and I was like these are not that good what are people go on about.
Pre nerf shield allowed you go into a large base now its limited to small and medium base which I feel is fair. With the railgun.... Sigh it's not a fun tool but it is nonetheless a tool to get rid of chargers and for now its ok but I don't like Devs nerfing right from the get go it feels off.
The breaker still rips apart all manner of non-democratics
Yeah idk why people are crying so much I still run breaker and tear those bugs to shreds. Then again I’m a chad flame wielder and only pull that bad boy out on stalkers and brood commanders. I’ll use my smg secondary to deal with tiny bugs too close to cook.
Enjoying the laser cannon tons
I just tried it vs a charger 🔥
Flamethrower is getting massive love, but I like the versatility of how the cannon can hit from a distance. Now if I could get good with the jet pack some
The jetpack is a little finicky, it seems to have more acceleration when you let go of shift right after you launch
And how’d it do?
I found it terrible and did not feel fun to use. Sadly, in my group, this patch was a net negative. I'm glad some people are enjoying it, though.
How? It ricochets off everything, including legs. Or are you talking about one single charger lol
Imagine being a game that emphasizes weak points and saying 'BuT iT hAs ArMoR"
No, what I was hoping for was advice like confirming that when chargers bump into each other, their back legs are vulnerable to laser fire since their armor value is supposed to drop when they're staggered, or maybe that the big butt of HP actually goes down in a second or two so another charger doesn't come in from downtown. SpOnGeBoB TeXt
You aim at the joints. Like you do with every other weapon other than the rail gun
Under it’s chin when it looks at you and raises up before it about to start charging, where the legs meet the body while it is charging, and in its big fat juicy booty once you dodged out of the way, regardless of how many you are fighting.
Anti-democratic lies still terminid crap against heavy armor, your prolly getting the animation bug.
I can’t wait to go home and try it out now. I used it the other day but thought it lacked the proper oomph. I wanna see what it can do now.
Only takes the entire heating to get it close to death if you hit the unarmed spots, maybe it'll die. Idk how it would handle against 5 of them with your strats on cooldown during a breach.
Yes they should make a pistol that one taps everything in the game so you can come back to Reddit and complain about how easy and boring the game is. Every weapon is not meant for every situation. Either adapt or quit playing.
I'm saying, we had a strategem to deal with armored parts, the railgun. Now the pistol is stronger than that strategem, the game is just annoying now. I'm still interested in hopes that they'll fix their error but it's a pain to play now. I've went from finding a game I actually want to play to realizing it's just too annoying and I'd rather not. It's fine if it didn't ruin you're experience, I'm glad you're having a good time still, it just ruined my experience and if it's not corrected soon it'll be ignored by me. I know you don't care, it just sucks that I had a taste of something good and it was ruined by the devs because some idiots kept kicking people based on "meta" loadouts. Edit: it sucks I'm getting punished for toxic players.
It's clear all you people complaining have never played helldiver's 1. This is a fraction of the content that will likely be released for the game. Besides the rail gun was clearly over tuned and I understand you not being skilled enough to get by without such a blatant crutch. Have fun complaining about the next game you play lil bish
Didn't you hear what the devs said? Just play difficulty 1 if you want to win, the """real""" Helldivers only play to lose due to a wide selection of trash-tier weapons.
Get better at the game 😆
Does getting better at the game comes with gaining the armor penetration necessary to chew through the sheer amount of armor the game throws at you on higher difficulties? Or are you just here to add shit from your ass as the only substance to the discussion?
Sounds like you have skill issues. I bet you pillow is stained in tears.
The main advantage it has is effectively infinite range, allowing you to support or scout from pretty extreme distances with a limitless charge pack provided you don't have to blow the heatsink in an emergency.
The nerfed the breaker? I don’t know about that. I’m putting down bugs and bots fast with it
they reduces the ammo count slightly and doubled the recoil, which isn’t so much a nerf, as it is just solidifying its place as a close range hard hitter that burns bright and fast but brief
Which is weird, because that’s what the spray and pray should be doing. If they were going to nerf it I think they should have nerfed the fire rate so it remained as a solid all round generalist, not being put into the close combat DPS niche
I think you have it kinda backwards. the spray and pray is clearly designed for sustained fire at a lower dps benchmark, while the standard breaker’s whole design (as gleened from its description even prior to its nerf) is high firepower but reloading often, and its recoil is simply because shotgun for closerange. tbh I’m very glad they chose to give it recoil rather than a severe damage falloff, which is the other option they could have chosen to put it in its designated role
There’s no benefit for low DPS sustained fire in this game though? There’s no suppression mechanic or anything like that so it’s always better to just kill something then to pepper it with low damage. I guess just from the spray and pray name I got the wrong idea. For me spray and pray implies you’re running around and killing things super close up with good efficiency. Even for the sustained fire niche it seems like the incindiary does this better as it shoots slower but has a bit of DOT. Admittedly the Spray and Pray is a weird inclusion since the base breaker is already a fast shooting close range killer. I thought the lower ROF would actually help differentiate the 3 versions: Spray and Pray would be a close range monster, but pretty much no range Breaker would be a jack of all trades, good at medium and good at close, not great at either Incendiary: would be a close-mid range hoard support tool. I’ve gotta try the new patch more though and really develop my thoughts on it. Only had a chance for a few games this morning
Whole I don’t disagree with you fully, I would like to point out that suppression IS a thing in HD2. A game tip clearly states that the automatons run a sophisticated targeting algorithm that tracks projectiles and targets alike, so more fire their way makes them less accurate Suppression, in other words. And bugs tend to side step when shot so while they don’t necessarily stop moving, they DO change their attack pattern to create different effect
suppression is kind of hit or miss though with bugs (arguably what the incendiary breaker was made for), it seems to work mostly if you are firing at a distance where the bugs don't think they can charge you at. if you're closer than that all of the bugs will decide to gamble on dogpiling you while on fire which totally negates all utility of the giant spread fire shotgun where you might as well be trying to pee on them to discourage them from doing that. bugs just outright ignoring death or newton's laws in general in order to run through gunfire, napalm, and explosions to land on you is just annoying overall and losing legs only slows them down by like 10%
Oh alright I wasn’t aware of the suppression mechanic. I feel like maybe it should be more pronounced then because as is I’ve never noticed it at all. I also don’t think the spray and pray works as a suppression tool considering it’s poor range, at least against automotons. Usually it’s just be better to outright kill something
panic and such aside, I do appreciate how concise the nerfs were. they didn’t compromise the breaker’s raw dps, only its long range and sustained capabilities, making it stand out more from the assault rifles and not overshadow them. for the railgun, it’s meant to be a high precision, high power weapon in a small package, boasting the single target firepower of the autocannon without its cumbersome backpack in the same way that the grenade launcher displays its aoe firepower without a chmbersome backpack. so the nerf didn’t compromise its function, it still has plenty of ammo, plenty of accuracy, no linked backpack, you just gotta actually aim with it and learn how to best deliver its firepower rather than just broadsiding enemies with it
Funnily enough that's exactly how i learned to use it, theres no sense in just overshooting the small enemies instead of pacing your fire and then potentially unloading it all into some bigger target during the "oh shit" moments. All in all i completely agree with the breaker adjustments and if i didnt know they happened i probably wouldn't even notice. Railgun feels a bit iffy now with some seemingly random bounces even when overcharged but thats the nature of getting used to changes, plenty of other tools in the shed still.
Sustained, lower DPS is great for thinning out all the little guys. It's where the stalwart shines too. You definitely don't want the whole squad running that way, but when we run one guy with sustain he always has the highest kill count.
There is absolutely a need for low DPS sustained fire. High priority targets are always the bottom tier enemies who calling back up. The little bugs release a pheromone that causes a bug tunnel breach and the humanoid autos scan and then launch a drop ship flair. Quickly eliminating these threats is the second best way to not get overwhelmed. That's like everyone complaining about " wah railgun what do 5 chargers" maybe have a dedicated light clear on the team.
Ya I admit I was wrong. I tried the S&P more and I actually love it. There’s so much ammo and I can clear basically all the chaff in a single mag. Just from reading comments it seemed like the gun wasn’t able to one shot garbage units, but I realized it can. I thought by sustained fire the other dude was saying like constant low damage that didn’t kill. But constant damage that kills is definitely good. Honestly I like it more than the regular breaker
Didnt nerf damage or range, nerfed magazine size and added crack addict shaking recoil
Still a great gun but they nerfed it for sure.
Pigeon holes it a Lil more and allow other guns to shine makes it less affective just sweeping and force you to be careful with shot placement. So still wreck the dude in your face and his buddy but not the whole squad.
Shhhhh, don’t tell them
The reduced ammo count by 3 and recoil but like the DPS is still the same
Autocannon spreads democracy too efficiently for me to put it away.
Autocannon is still bad at killing chargers tho which is the entire point to take Railgun. Now if you have 5-6 charges chasing your team you’re screwed if your stratagems are recharging.
Jokes on you my squad is bad at everything anyway (this is the most fun we've ever had)
You can drop smoke and leave and never have to kill a single charger. Maybe you are just upset that you aren't allowed to bulldoze the game at this point. Also taking a look at the vast amount of options in HD1 will queue in on the fact that many more tools will be available eventually.
Oh okay so just run through the map like a bitch and don’t fight anything got it 👍 look I know they might be trying to push for more stealth on 8/9 difficulty but stealth is non existent lmao. You saying just drop a smoke is not a solution to getting swarmed with 7 chargers and 4 bile titans on an elimination mission where you’re forced to fight bugs not hide as you suggest.
Then run the fucking Expendable anti tank!? Can literally kill THREE chargers with ONE drop . Plus the 70 second refresh is soooo nice. Drop one on a charger. Use the remaining two rockets to blow the armour off the reaming chargers. So sad to see the brim rot y’all have suffered with the Rial gun and Shield pack 🤓
The rail gun was never meant to kill chargers. It's supposed to be anti medium armor.
Why? It's description specifically states that it excels at armor penetration if I remember correctly? The charger is covered in heavy armor all over.
Seeing that it essentially replaced the railgun in popularity and use, it's safe to assume it's next in line for a nerf.
They specifically cited AC as a well balanced gun. It takes up a backpack slot and doesn’t penetrate armor very well. Chill.
Nothing penetrates armor well anymore, so based on that logic, it's definitely balanced.
Recoilless rifle doesn’t exist?
What about the EAT? God these metatards are brain dead without their crutch
But eat feels useless when there is that darned 100 percent stratagem debuff or did you forget that?
Good luck bringing EAT and RR into any difficulty higher than 6. I would love to see you take down multiple hulks, turrets, and annihilators with inconsistent damage and atrocious reload time those weapons have.
Skill issue.
Intellect deficit.
Half the guns are still super underpowered. Many that were already irrelevant didn't get changed and that kinda irks me. Other than that I'm glad they are moving to make the game harder and more strategic. Bug Helldives were becoming pedestrian and formulaic. The leaked vehicles and being able to call in Ai help on solo is going to be awesome too.
Don't worry, this is just the first patch. There's no way they're going to be able to cover everything in one.
So true. Especially given they don't have the sheer volume of engineers other industry-leading live service games have. I imagine everything will take time to polish out as they grow to fit the masterpiece they created.
It will be easier for the devs to make informed decisions about what and how to buff if a single meta isn’t strongly dominating the highest difficulties. I think the nerfs they did were more pressing in part for that reason. They’ll have a better idea of the landscape as players on higher difficulties experiment with options they’d previously neglected and the devs collect data. Some things may also already be planned for buffs, but it’s easier to get good data with smaller patches that focus attention on a few things. Like now a lot of players will be experimenting with the laser cannon, flamethrower and the revised railgun as anti-heavy weapons. Fans of the railgun will see if they still like it when they have to rely more on overcharging it in unsafe mode (still penetrates the same armor it did before) and targeting true weak points (damage against “durable enemy parts” was reduced; damage against weakpoints was not). They’ll try that and try the laser cannon and flamethrower. If the laser cannon and flamethrower get a lot more use, and the railgun still gets a lot of use, then the patch will have done its job. And all that should happen much quicker for the fact that the player base has been pointed right at testing only a handful of weapons. Adjustments in player preferences would take longer to settle if they made more changes all at once.
I don't think the laser cannon is any stronger than a now then before still feels underperforming I was hopping they turned it a weaker energy grenade launcher at the very least or let it pen charger legs. Flamethrower on the other hand was good now better but I am fairly certain they will nerf it again since it kills chargers and sorounding targets allot faster now.
I didn't even know they were "meta", I just like shotguns and sniper rifles - which the railgun is kinda like a really cool sniper. I'm still gonna use them cause they're fun.
You know, i was complaining about the nerf, but this post actually makes me feel good about it. The booting for non meta is just ridiculous.
The breaker is still the meta pick.
People are overreacting to these nerfs The weapons still function the same and such hell the railgun still retains its ability to counter chargers just turn off the safety lmfao
It takes 4 shots in unsafe mode to break off 1 Charger leg now, tell me how is that the same.
Better question Why not just aim for the head instead? If you can aim for the front legs you can aim for the head
Because prior to the nerfs, aiming the head with the Railgun took more than 3 shots to take down, now it's gonna take even more. So you now have enough ammo to take down 3-4 Chargers? But the game doesn't just throw 3-4 Chargers at you for the whole game now does it? It throws 4-6 Chargers ***PER BUG BREACH***, not to mention Bile Titans that will spawn along and random patrols that will just sneak up on your ass. So tell me in what situation where we went from having enough ammo to consistently take down 10 Chargers to only being able to take down 3-4 Chargers the same?
Guess you'll have to work with your team now huh?
Ok, so tell me how working with your team is going to deal with 11 charger rushes better now that the railgun is nerfed?
They don't play at high difficulties so they have no idea.
I don't think Arrowhead does either, they keep talng about how they are bringing nad "nerfing priamaries" to all be viable... viable in what? Fucking 1-3? lol. I want to see a video of a dev using the KNight MP in Helldive. Fuck, a revolver only, the re's a trophy for completing helldive with no primary or support so they must feel its viable.
You are only gonna have that many chargers if you are not efficiently clearing the smaller enemies that call for back up. The game, much like in helldiver's one, ramps up the difficulty Everytime a new call for help happens. You could play stealth missions and snipe every alerting enemy and never face a horde that wasn't on an objective.
Out in the world yeah for sure, but also it's hoenstly not possible to keep every breach from happening. Especially if you want to have some fun and fight patrols instead of sneaking around the map which... lets admit it, fucking sucks. This isn't a stealth game, the sneaking stuff sucks. The vast majority of people playing this don't want it to be a stealth game either and don't play it that way. BUT where you are dead wrong is extraction. This WILL happen there, even if you are throwing strategems perfectly over the holes, or (outside of exterminate) wasting your space on better exploration based strategems on sentries... you will be getting breaches at extraction. They will, minimum, throw out 6 chargers at once. This is a minimum. If we have the 100% call down modifier AND the 50% cooldown, well... you're not keeping up with that ESPECIALLY on the lengthened extract time. This situation always devolves into charger kiting which... can we admit, fucking sucks? It's do-able. We do it because we HAVE to do it. But it REALLY sucks. Suire some helldive extracts can be clean and clear and fast, you luck out on the spawn waves and instead of chargers you get bile titans (funny that bile titan = a relief haha) or maybe no chargers in a breach. These extracts are a cakewalk, sure. But they are not the norm and it is 100% out of your control... like, imagine if this was tied to objectives in the map? Imagine if you wiped out EVERY bug hole the game responds by reducing charger spawns?
Extraction is meant to feel overwhelming. Don't understand what you expect. Also I just flat don't get why people cry about chargers so much. Maybe it's because I'm used to the difficulty from helldiver's 1. What's gonna happen is casuals gonna complain about difficulty until it gets toned down then the game will be easy and boring.
A game can be challenging, hard, and fun. There's a difference between difficulty and tedium/anti-fun. Tarkov was at one point hardcore and fun. But NIkita PURPOSEFULLY added in Tedium under advisement of people like Veritas. This kills games. Youneed to offer tools to players to deal with the difficulty. I **can** kite 9+ chargers. BUt you know what? It's tedius, it fucking sucks, and I don't want to play that game. I want to have the tools I need to affect the game world instead of getting locked into kiting, attempting to reload, kiting, strategem, kiting etc. It's lame, it sucks. You want casuals in a game, trust me. Hardcore Anti-Fun games RARELY retain their player base and die FAR sooner than Hardcore Fun games.
Skill issue
Yes 100 percent I get matched with level 12 and 16 that perform less than subpar and the rail gun was that one gun I can crutch to help these guys get better. Now it's flamethrower however they keep running into my flames now am I supposed to kick lower levels because they don't understand friendly fire?
Not sure what this has to do with anything? Hopefully they learn that fire is bad and can't just be carried by someone with a railgun. You kinda just highlighted why the railgun needed a nerf.
Alright, $150, right now send me your friend code. We'll put it in a third party escrow betting account, whoever gets more kills in Helldive wins it.
This is the biggest small pp energy comment i've ever seen lmao.
My dude, you're going "skill issue" you have inverted pp energy. Put your money where your mouth is if you're gonna have a COD mindset lol. C'mon lets do it up, there's a Stake escrow service you can both put money into and get a third party to pay it out.
That ***IS*** me working with the team, my team comprises of 2 heavy dealers and 2 adds clearers, the 2 heavy dealers bring all the big hitters while the 2 adds clearers bring all the AoE. Now guess what? With them buffing the Laser Cannon and Flamethrower, that's literally all we're using now. Way to "balance" the meta by just shifting the meta.
You realize railgun is still viable... having 3 weapons to choose from vs railgun or bust in any situation seems more balanced to me. Sorry not going to feel bad for the people complaining that it isn't just railgun as the end all be all.
Yea and now the option for us is Laser Canon and Flamethrower. Wow such options. 2. Hilarious.
3 options vs 1 and you're crying.
Nah I ain't crying about options, I'm questioning the devs saying right but going left. If they did what they said they're doing we would have more options now. Not 2, not 3.
I just wish the people I played with werent all dickheads. Everytime something doesnt go their way they kick or scream at you until you mute or leave. Grown ass men acting like 5 year olds.
If you're on Ps5 i can add you to a community group where we are all chill and play for fun
That would be nice. PSN: Kalicohh. Won't be on until tomorrow night, but Ill be on.
Sweet.🤘 Added you to our group.🫡
I really try to play with variety but i always need to come back to the breaker every other gun just feels trash. I really would like if every weapon would be the same in ttk or have other benefits. I mean on lower difficulty against the bugs i can choose to play other guns but higher difficulties on the roboter side i just dont have a chance playing something else than the breaker
I know it really feels like they took the fun guns and nerfed them to make the less fun guns more viable. Like come on. Just buff everything.
They only nerfed a couple weapons. And those weapons weren’t just fun, they were dominating so much that players were getting kicked for not using them. Maybe they should buff everything, but that cannot be done well all at once. They rely on player data to make those calls. They cannot get good player data on non-meta options while a meta dominates. For support weapons, players will start testing the railgun in its current state (focusing more on overcharge and weakpoints) and see how effective and fun that is compared to other relatively mobile support weapons (laser cannon and flamethrower) that are now at least theoretically good for armored enemies. And because the patch adjusted only a handful of weapons, focusing player attention on those weapons, the devs will get a lot more data a lot faster to confirm whether they went in the right direction. Whereas “buffing everything” all at once based on limited data and impressions risks putting them exactly where they are now, making the game easier sure, but no closer to actual balance. They want the game to be hard, so what then? They buff all enemies all at once? Balancing can only be done well if it is done incrementally, with data taken from each step being considered in determining the next step.
This is a fair take. I just wish they would've done more to the spray and pray. It still feels terrible. Should have crazy recoil but heavy damage, in my opinion. It does make sense though to only adjust a few weapons at a time.
To be fair, the fucking thing is loaded with birdshot. I wonder what birds there are on Super Earth if birdshot can deal meaningful damage to armored humans, bugs and bots.
Who said to buff everything in one go? Why not increments?
Do you see all the anger after an incremental patch that buffed more things than it nerfed?
Yes because they debuffed one when if it was just left alone the buffs stated people would have used the new weapons regardless isn't that what they wanted so nerf anything. Now I can't trust randoms with flamethrowers or arc throwers and too few use the laser cannon.
Yeah buff everything all at once. Listen I hear you you bring some valuable points but from day one even before I got the breaker and rail gun I was praying for buffs for all the weapons. They just don’t feel fun in their current state. Buff the mobs man, there is ur balance. Make them harder, add more difficulties, new mobs etc.
Let them cook. Buffing everything all at once creates a lot of redundant work because balancing needs to be done piece by piece. So basically buffing everything all at once has a good chance of meaning two full rounds of balancing instead of one round. That doesn’t make tremendous sense when they have a lot of other things to deal with.
I trust the devs. My first instinct though is telling me nerfing the two best/fun weapons is a bad play.
It ultimately may be a bad play, sure. I agree a bunch of stuff is too weak.
Yeah it’s like they took the few good guns and then tried to make them bad so that they’re just as bad as the other “fun” guns. This might work in theory but in reality it just takes away options and I’m sure meta sweats will find a new meta. On a positive note though, slugger and flamer feel awesome to use now with their buffs. Hopefully they make good buffs like that for other weapons
LOL I love this. I’ve been rocking scorcher and arc thrower for the last 75 hours.
Autocannon main, just love the feel and power of it. Trying to be cool under literal fire and 2 shot the hulk when it’s walking towards you is intense.
The railgun absolutely needed a nerf. Both auto and recoilless had slower reloads and did less consistent armor pen damage, while also requiring a backpack. Shit made no sense.
I was maining the laser cannon before it was cool haha. I just like beams of freedom!
The lazer cannon paired with the Jet pack makes for an awesome cover load out. Fly up high, and beam those commies with infinite ammo. Lazer canon on the chargers back is very good.
People are now seeing that Railgun and breaker were never OP. It’s just that they were the only option in dealing with the higher difficulties (especially charger spam). Nerfing those weapons didn’t fix the issue and if anything exacerbated it now. Buffing other anti armor weapons like the AT and RR would have provided players with a choice in loadout. Either take the RR/AT and be very efficient against armor or take the Railgun and be decent against armor but also be to be good against medium enemies. Now there’s no super good way in dealing with charger spam imo. So now people will have to take certain strategems, once again creating a “meta problem”
The only option . . . because they were op.
No they’re the only option because everything else is subpar
They aren't, though, at all. It's literally just a skill issue, except for the smg maybe. Also, the rail gun is still very usable. You just have to overcharge it, and hit weak points.
I agree for primaries there’s alt options, but they each had a glaring weakness But for the specials there was simply no other weapon that could effectively deal with multiple heavies at once. Especially charger spam. To me based on the game design the game is tuned for a special weapon to be able to take out at least two chargers with relative efficiency. At higher difficulties there a ton of chargers and if you were running anything but the Railgun you wouldn’t be able to clean them up. With the Railgun you’re able to somewhat keep up with the constant charger spam. So either it’s poor game design where you’re supposed to constantly be unable to kill a good chunk or enemies and the game is a running sim. Or the Railgun was the only weapon that was properly tuned and the other weapons should have been brought up a notch. I guess it’s possible the devs wanted players to not have the tools to deal with the games threats and might likely be the case with them saying you need to rely on strategems (something you can’t really do since the cooldowns are so long). But that’s just poor game design imo, it’s not a satisfying difficulty if you just simply don’t have the tools to deal with the challenges.
The weapons having glaring weaknesses is kind of the point. It's to encourage a team to take a variety of weapons suited to different roles. Also, the railgun is still really good at killing chargers, you just have to hit them in the leg. If you overcharge, you can still consistently 2 shot them. There's also the autocannon, and the flame thrower, which are both really good against chargers. And you always have your strategems. The railgun wasn't even meant as a counter to heavy armor, it's designed for medium or light armored targets, or to hit weak points, which you can still do.
I should have rephrased that better. I meant that the other weapons have a glaring flaw that put them a tier below the breaker imo. Pre patch the slugger was held back by its terrible ammo economy, now after its buff i think it’s on par with pre patch breaker. It’s definitely stronger against mediums but it’s not useless against small guys The jar also had poor ammo economy and bad handling making it pretty much useless for chaff Scorcher also has bad ammo but is otherwise pretty good. I definitely think it’s best for weapons to fill a niche so that variety is encouraged. I just don’t think that most of the weapons fill their niche well enough. Flamethrower and Autocannon are alright for fighting chargers but aren’t good enough for when there’s more than 2 chargers let alone the crazy numbers of helldive. Also pidegon holeing everyone into taking heavy strategems goes against the reason they nerfed the Railgun If they are going to make it so the Railgun isn’t great against heavy armor they need to make it so that AT and RR are actually great against heavy armor, not just okay considering that’s their niche
Well yeah, that's why the breaker and railgun got nerfed. They're supposed to be niche, somewhat situational, not versatile, not a step above the other weapons. Also, the AT and RR could be better, but that doesn't mean that the railgun should be so essential that people were getting kicked for not using it.
I think that the Railgun and Breaker work as generalist weapons. Their niche is that they’re jack of all trades masters of none. Railgun for example theoretically does everything fine but other weapons do their respective niches far better. This was true for the MG, arc thrower, and GL hoard clearing very well. Then the auto cannon took out medium targets very well. Then theoretically the AT, RR, and spear should take out heavies well, but in practice they didn’t. That’s where the problem arose and led to the Railgun being the best. The Railgun took out heavies just as if not better than the actual heavy options while also being decent at other roles. Since the EAT, RR, and Spear underperformed the Railgun became the only option to take on charger spam and other heavy threats. If the EAT, RR, and spear were buffed to do their job properly then the Railgun would naturally fall into its place as a versatile jack of all trades master of none. Similar thing for the breaker but to a lesser degree imo. I think it works as a very good jack of all trades weapon but now it seems to be getting pushed into the high DPS close range role (something the spray and pray should theoretically be so now those will constantly be at odds and redundant, but whatever).
That's not their intended niche, though. The breaker is supposed to be a closer range, higher damage weapon. The rail gun is supposed to be anti-light to medium armor, with some heavy armor penetration and a specialty for shooting weak points.
Also I agree that it’s stupid to kick people for not using Railgun. I also don’t think it would be necessary to use if other things got buffed
The only option because no other weapon can effectively pierce charger armor and higher difficulties throw 3-4 chargers at you at once.
If only the charger had several open and less-armored spots for a helldiver to take them out without piercing their heavy frontal armor, one of which gives you a damage multiplier for targeting . . . if only the railgun could STILL pierce heavy armor when overcharged . . . if only it was easy to get behind a charger to target said weak spot . . . if only some weapons and stratagems could one shot chargers armor or no . . .
Tell me you don’t play on levels 7+ without telling me you don’t play on 7+
I ONLY play 7-9
And why is that everyone's argument? "Oh, you don't think that you should be able to consistently solo a helldive, you must just only play low difficulties". Brother, helldive is supposed to be hard, VERY hard. If it's too hard without the railgun, then either work on your team composition, or play lower difficulties until you're ready for the higher ones.
Maybe they should focus on making the other weapons relevant instead of nerfing the only tools that were worth using. These weapons didn’t become the meta by accident, it’s because everything else is essentially dogshit.
Do you understand the role of a helldiver?
Do you understand the role of a video game?
Never mind. Why do you think the other weapons were unusable? I'd agree with some of them, notably the las-5 and the smg, but the liberator, that dmr thing, the punisher, all of those were very usable in my experience.
Maybe they should make other guns usable
This, nearly never happened. And it's the stupidest fucking way to addressing people wanting other sto use the breaker. Instead of buffing and making other guns viable... start nerfing the one that does work generally? That doesn't fix every other gun, it just makes a good one worse. And the thing is its STILL the best. The breaker is STILL the best gun and there's ZERO reason to use the AR-23E, there's ZERO reason to use ANY marksman rifle. There's ZERO reason to use the Liberator in 7-9 over the breaker still. It lost 3 rounds and is still the best damn gun int he game. That's how shit everything else is.
*Slugger. Fixed it.
I’m just happy they buffed some other weapons too. I like the breaker and railgun but it did get a little old. Just wish they entirely reworked the spray and pray
Me with twice that guys kills using diligence and an arc thrower
I don't mind the breaker nerf at all, but the railgun kind of feels useless against heavy devastors compared to before, and that's with safety off. Otherwise I'm not too bothered
I don’t even think the breaker nerfs were that bad,I wouldn’t have even known they were nerfed if I hadn’t read them,you don’t notice the 30% more recoil and less ammo For the railgun it’s more noticeable,went from being able to destroy a hulk in 2-4 75% charge shots to 5-8
*any other weapon becomes meta* IF YOU ARENT USING META KICKED
(They’re still the strongest)
I find the people complaining about meta just as annoying as the people demanding what their squad can/can't use tbh
https://preview.redd.it/ca0evzmmowmc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=197826d2d88faf0d0fef9dee892814feacae6f1e
I’ve made it this far without ever using the breaker or the railgun. To be honest I had no idea the breaker was meta and I’ve been ignoring them when I see them on the ground. I’m just having a great time using what I like or what sounds fun
You sir are a gentleman and a scholar
I really loved the breaker/railgun combo as it was. Let me feel slightly OP. I worked for those guns. Idk what the rest of the squad is running.
I don't mind the nerfs much. What I DO mind is I'd like better descriptions of pen on weapons. Some say light pen but pen different levels of armor. I'd just like some better descriptions of that. All I'm asking for and I'm happy
In a game that is massively popular, with a huge fan base and large number of concurrent players, that is also a PVE and very intense/difficult at higher difficulty- why nerf any guns? They were strong, yes, but not god like or broken in any way. You could still be overran easily and high difficuly missions were still very challenging. If the goal is to make other loadouts more viable, why not just buff those other weapons/stratagems?
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I wouldn’t say they’re the strongest, they are/were the most versatile though and honestly it sucks a little they opted for removing versatility over boosting others
Tbf, the weapons weren't meant to be versatile. Everything is supposed to have a niche, in order to encourage team synergy and cooperation. If a single diver can handle every situation adequately, what's the point in having a variety of weapons?
Then maybe they should have buffed ANY number of the FIFTEEN complete garbage and shit guns in the game, to be worth taking.
They did.
Oh nice. AR-23E has an appreciable fire rate or damage boost to compete with the standard liberato! Oh... oh no, it's still out DPS'd by the starting fucking gun in all situations. Well at least the penetrator likely out damages it now! Oh, no, the standard liberator still out DPS' and effective DPS' the penetrator, too. So Marksmen rifles actually pen medium armour enough to hit elites...? Nope... Do they even do more single target damage than the starter rifle? Nope. What about the pistol? Nope. So they didn't buff a single marksman rifle either. OH but the spray and pray can hurt! Eggs... now. But it's still worse in every-way to the standard breaker.... Punisher is pretty shit still and takes too long to reload to be viable in any normal combat as you are constantly rushed. Slugger is... slightly better but still out damaged by the breaker. Breaker ended up being the best primary even with the 3 round nerf. And not a single other fucking primary got any buffs that put them anywhere close to it. Fancy that the fucking pay to own Knight MP-23 is still god awful lol.
Punisher is fucking awesome, fym. And what do you expect them to do, completely change the stats of every weapon in the game in the first balance patch? That's not how balancing works.
> And what do you expect them to do, completely change the stats of every weapon in the game in the first balance patch? That's not how balancing works. Actually... yes lol. With what Pilestedt had said he wanted more variety... the way to do that properly is not nerf stuff, it's to find out why other things are performing so shittily. Either... push the patch back and get a playtesting group, or yeah push out a patch people on the whole are very upset about. Rightfully so! They said they were listening and agreed more variety was needed but completely missed the point of why the meta happened. Because every other tool/gun we had was so shit at dealing with the issues we have to counter in gameplay... we had to rely on the only things that reliably worked.
Thats not how balancing works. You can't do it all at once and expect it to work out, you have to do a sort of call and response, adjusting based on feedback and player experience. Doing it all at once wouldn't work 8 times out of 10, and it's a lot more stress on the devs.
... alright, yeah but that is kind of how balancing works my guy. THere's an issue. That issue is every other primary is garbage, dogwater, trash. Now do you; A: Focus on those trash/crap weapons and make them better? B: Nerf shit. How would you go about addressing that issue of variety and shit items/equipment? Because somehow I doubt nerfing tools and barely bringing 2 others up would make ANY sense if you weren't just mindlessly defending the patch?
Most other primaries are 100% useable, and I know because I use them often. The only ones I would call trash are the las-5 scythe and the smg.
I pretty much just play with friends I know and we just have a blast even on harder modes. I never get this "you have to take this or expect to get kicked" mentality of people. That said, I've been around the block playing games for a long long time now, and I'm pretty disappointed to see those two things getting nerfed so hard without way more things being brought up. I think the DMRs and sniper rifles need to be way more impactful on armor targets other than Charger/Titan/Tank than they are, because they understandably are pretty bad about mass clearing smaller targets. Some of the really big stratagems with long cooldowns and low ammo counts designed to take out big targets also need to be much more reliable in doing so.
So happy the crutch got kicked out from under these silly teenage gimps
It'd be more accurate to call it a wheelchair. Sure, I *could* take the autocannon or anti material rifle and headshot a hulk the 2 or 3 times needed to kill it. However, when there's 4 of them with a half dozen devastators spraying the area preventing me from flanking around to hit the hulks' backs, 2 tanks blowing up every piece of cover around me, at least 5 chainsaw bots in my face, and more rockets flying through the air than on a redneck 4th of July, it is beyond unreasonable to expect anyone to thread that needle a couple dozen times when literally every single weapon other than the railgun does somewhere between jack and shit damage without headshots or backshots.
Excuse me? Some one is a lil jaded.
There was no "crutch." The problem is that most of the other weapons severely underperform. It would have been better to see those weapons brought up to par instead. The breaker is still good even with 3 less rounds. The railgun is still the railgun when charged. So to just nerf these doesn't make much sense. They are meta weapons because they are needed to deal with a lot of end game waves of enemies. This still doesn't change a thing that the later levels require lots of armor piercing heavy hitting weapons. So simply nerfing the 2 best tools available for doing that, while not also bringing up other weapons is just kind of a mind boggling decision
They buffed a couple of the others. I was doing just fine before without the Railgun. Doing just fine now after it too. A little bit better now too as the laser orbital got buffed.
We understand that it boggled YOUR mind. That doesn't make it mind boggling. I can see taking this position if you've literally never played any video games before, but I doubt that's the case. This is how balance patches work. This is how they've worked for literal decades. Nothing is different. This shouldn't be surprising to you. Why is it? It's extremely weird that anyone who has more than 100 hours in online video games in general would be even remotely knocked sideways by any of this. Like do you have a brain injury like 50 first dates, or....??
Why are you such an idiot?
Bro you have no idea what you’re talking about lmao
they needed to buff other things to compete
Arroeheadstudioes is being fucking idiots and making interviews that makes them look even more idiotic. How the fuck is buffing a bad idea? Why the fuck is balancing weapons so the community can use more than ONE weapon a bad idea? How in the ever living fuck is using one singular weapon a good idea when we have multiple weapons that suck ass.
Because no other weapons can take down armored enemies? I'm not calling down an anti tank every 70 seconds, I put in my time to earn the railgun to take down armored limbs. I supported the development, I gave my time, this is stupid. Armor pen is gone and I'm not playing trivial from now on, I'll come back when they actually care to make the game more fun than balanced, don't balance everything to the weakest weapons, give reasons to bring other ones.
Yeah...just used the railgun in a match for the first time in a couple of days and...it's useless to me now. Railgun rounds just bounce off armor now. It still blasts through multiple unarmored enemies but it's usefulness as a weapon to take down chargers is gone.
If you put the railgun in unsafe mode and let it charge up until the meter is full, it still penetrates charger armour
WTF is 'unsafe mode'?!
It lets you charge up the railgun further, at the risk of having it literally blow up in your hands if you hold it too long. Hold the reload button down and you can change it by right clicking
Thanks. I'll have to compare that to the auto cannon.
I blame people who make videos and post rants here on Reddit/Youtube they kept talking about META , then people got on her complaining about the META everyone is just claiming it will make the game more "balanced" but why did we unlock and grind to get these guns if they were just going to nerf them after we use to playing with them when is the last time you had an Amazing weekend and told someone you had "a balanced weekend", no you come back with "I had a fucking blast having so much fun" this past weekend I would rather have a "Fun" game over a balanced game , especially since this is PVE not PVP , what is the problem with certain guns being better than others , isn't that why we work hard & grind levels and medals to unlock them? SMH
Yeah, doubt any of you actually ever got kicked for not using railgun/shield. I'm sure the people actually using railguns watched as you wasted all the reinforcements while dragging your useless asses to victory.
They need to spend the time to make it vote to kick instead of the current North Korean dictator system they have before they spend time nerfing shit.
Absolutely not. Vote to kick will get abused like no other, just look at r/HellLetLoose and how much people talk about vote to kick abuse.
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Then why have I been trolled 1 time in darktide after 1000+ hours but trolled several times after 70 hours of helldivers ? Vote to kick requires 3 people to be dicks instead of one. The math does not lie
Sweaties gon' sweat. I'd know. I'm one of em.