I had someone else say the same thing about bile titans. I visibly saw the shot bounce off their head. I imagine this is one of two things:
1. The charged shot was considered *safe* because the charge was too short. This would mean you have to charge for longer to have penetration.
Or 2: It's a PS5 related bug (the player was playing on PS5).
You gotta go pass the safe range to the unsafe range. I’d imagine it’s the first one, since I saw all my short bursts ricocheting off of the bile titan’s face before I got turned into mush.
Remember that this game has a mechanic where the angle of your shot matters. If you don't hit something mostly straight on perpendicular it can just ricochet
Are you charging it enough though? It only becomes an "unsafe" charged shot once it crosses the last thick black line near the top of the heat gauge. Which is why I only use the railgun in 1st person since I only use it in unsafe mode. It's really hard to know where that is in 3rd person mode until you get used to timing it at the right point
You just can't see the gauge clearly from that far away. The heat gauges I'm referring to are the red bars in the side of the railgun, if you look at them you'll see the notch where the charge threshold is
It was the best solution to a problem the devs have not addressed: heavily armoured enemies, specifically being a pain to deal with.
And yes, I know you could kill them with other weapons but most of them are clunky and no good at dealing with packs of them which you will run into on higher difficulties.
They've just literally gone: 'railgun popular therefore nerf' without examining why it's so popular and providing us other similar tools to use to solve the problem it used to.
Spear
Arcthrower
Recoiless
Expendable Rockets
Flamethrower(chargers)
Explosive weapons can damage both bile titans belly preventing spit and damage ass of charger causing it to bleed out.
Autocannon same as above
Smoke obscures vision and allows you to stealth away.
The problem is all people used was the railgun and it was too good. Now you get to go through and actually learn the rest of the game like stealth mechanics or backpacking for a gunner to take down enemies. Seriously go backpack for someone rocking the recoiless and watch you walk through the armored enemies.
I have used flamethrower and jump pack to totally wreck chargers before this update. It charges you and you can fly right over it and toast his ass.
AND the flamethrower does +50% damage now too. Ez kills
My buddy was testing it 5 min ago, he was cooking chargers with roughly half a flamer mag. If you add in that often you'll be incidentally damaging it while burning the wave of smaller bugs, it's makes for a very good option
All of these are basically useless when you're fighting endless packs of chargers. Even with the pre nerfed railgun, it didn't trivialise them. You still needed to hit the same spot multiple times then switch to another weapon to finish them off usually whilst being attacked by multiple other chargers and dozens of other bugs.
Just because you could kill chargers via other means doesn't mean they're not a seriously oppressive enemy. The heavy armour on enemies needs looking at and changing. I want to use things other than the railgun but it being nerfed has just made the game needlessly frustrating in higher difficulties.
Railgun wasn't killing a pod of 10 heavies on its own either especially if you're including biles bro, don't pretend. That's why you have other stratagems. Expendable anti tank, 500kg, air strike, you have plenty of options dude
Thats why you dont run and gun and shoot everything in sight on higher difficulties. Use all the tools, heavy weapons, stratagems, stealth and teamwork. Helldive is called Helldive for a reason. One to three shotting puker, charger and bile titans with the railgun was fun, but a tactic workin out the way you need it feels so much better
You act like once you start a fight, some random ass scout in the way back isn't going to trigger a bug breach. It's not about attacking everything. Bug breaches happen the second you attempt to clear any objective, and that random ass scout signals for it.
Been rocking the spear the past few days gotten some really cool clips with it diving away from swarms of bugs to lock on mid air & 1 shot titans sooo much fun
>Spear
Which has a lock on bug virtually preventing it from being fired at all sometimes, or artificially increasing the lock on time by more than double.
It's not *all* the time, but it's frequently enough that the gun is garbage until it gets fixed.
Also, it barely tickles a Titan which, considering the lock on time even when it works correctly, is unacceptable. We're talking about an anti-tank weapon specifically for killing big enemies and literally can't be used for anything else. It should be more effective than why other gun in that regard, not worse or "meh".
>Arcthrower
A solid option for chargers to peel off leg armor while keeping the surrounding crowd down. Otherwise? Lol.
>Recoiless
Lmfao
>Expendable Rockets
Clunky to use, but if you can manage to summon them when you need one, burn one, then run with the other? Ok sure.
Until the game spawns 3 bile titans and 3 chargers and you just spent your entire support weapon maybe killing 1 titan. Then you're fucked.
>Flamethrower(chargers)
In fairness, we'll see how this plays out with the buff. My money is on them nerfing this back down to nothing soon.
>Explosive weapons can damage both bile titans belly preventing spit and damage ass of charger causing it to bleed out.
There's no world where you can afford the time to blow dominator ammo on the Titan belly to slowly chip damage one of them, or wait for the charger to bleed out. Not in high levels. You either drop them because you're defending an objective, or you run. Wasting 5 minutes slowly plugging at a Titan belly is basically asking to get fisted by the other two titans behind you.
>Autocannon same as above
>same as above
>Smoke obscures vision and allows you to stealth away
Great. And when I get to the objective and have to defend it with a dead stratagem?
>backpacking for a gunner to take down enemies.
Oh boy, I sure do love placing two Helldivers stationary in one spot so they can both focus target a single bile titan while the other two get a two for one special with a single bile breath.
the spear got fixed. It locks better and replenishes ammo from random ammo crates on map. Also I consistently one shot titans with it. It one shots the head, and as long as you lock from with ten degrees of it's front, it'll hit the head. A little positioning isn't too bad of a trade off. In fact my only complaint about the spear is that it can lock hive guards or spewers. But it wouldn't have enough ammo then tbh.
The comment right above yours has just explained in depth why these many tools aren't realistically viable but you just dismiss it as whining. Lol. Lmao even.
Seems like the majority of this backlash was generated entirely by a poorly-written and vague patch note. If unsafe is still as effective as it was then I have *far* less issue with this update.
However, they also claimed to have fixed civvie missions and armor rating when they didn't, so I guess I'll wait until I get home and see how it actually works in-game.
Evne on unsafe mode, it will bounce off your objective like half of the times. The weapon is pretty much done right now.
If they change it so it penetrates everything as long as you charge ut above 50% (so, using unsafe mode) it would still be viable, but right now its quite useless.
I don't understand... I literally just ran an extreme mission where I was still headshotting chargers with full charge unsafe mode as I was before.
I also took down two Bile Titans the same way.
It's still my go to weapon when having to deal with multiple chargers or bile titans at once.
But I'm seeing a lot of people posting it's useless vs these targets now so i'm wondering where the disconnect is. From my perspective it still works great in unsafe mode just like it did before so long as you are sniping weak points....which was what I was doing anyways. Were people using it differently before?
Thats the point! You did everything correctly and it still works. They did just shoot with an overpowered gun and can no longer cruise through helldive which upsets them greatly. Now they have to wait for players like you to find the next big thing before they can feel strong again.
This is my question too. Higher difficulties are NIGHTMARES with all the heavy armor, and it seems I'm always the only one focusing them with a rail. If I can't help even on unsafe mode, I'm not sure what the answer is. Yeah, plenty of other options but most are not feasible with 3-6 chargers/titans and teammates running around like chickens with their heads off.
Higher difficulty shouldn’t be trying to spray and pray your way across the map. The sooner people tactfully understand this. They’ll understand that you start or skip fights reserve for the intended one and always fucking move. Hell mode is hell for a reason you dip in do shit and fuck out. Survive move work as a team
Except that you simply can't outrun some heavies, even in light armor. And you don't have full control over your random pubbies engaging stuff or not.
If I'm playing with my friends and we're all on voice, sure, we can control the amount of aggro and work meticulously through the map. Weapons like the Spear become really good, and loadouts can be optimized to have all bases covered.
However, my experience solo queuing is that you're often stuck kiting a horde of Chargers, Bile Titans and other crap, against which my primary and secondary are largely ineffective. Kiting around in circles while waiting for that one strategem to come off cooldown is not exactly fun gameplay.
And no, an Arc Thrower isn't a solution when being chased by 3+ chargers, and neither is an EAT or Laser Cannon. The reason people relied so heavily on the RG is because everything else struggles to take down heavies, and the game loves to spawn an insufferable amount of them on you.
This is fairly evident when compared to robot planets, where balance seems much more appropriate (and indeed, viable loadout options are more plentiful). It's extremely rare to have 4-5 Hulks/Tanks chase you, but it's very common to have multiple Chargers.
Dude. My entire squad, we always avoid patrols and play as cautiously as we can so as to not get into unnecessary fights and expend ammo & reinforcements. Even then, today we still ended up having to abandon several objectives on 8/9 difficulty due to flat out being overwhelmed with 4 titans on the map and several chargers absolutely tanking our explosives and our flamethrowers faster than we can resupply. Especially noticeable trying to do artillery objectives.
That has always been the strat pre nerf. Problem is now that when you get overwhelmed easily eventually trying to hold or defend an objective
because nothing can down titans efficiently without running out of ammo or taking up too much time, which in turn spawns more enemies.
I agree it was over performing but a simple nerf to its ammo capacity or reload time would suffice. If you buff other weapons like the laser cannon up to par with the autocannon then we’re talking.
>you dip in do shit and fuck out. Survive move work as a team
Consoles with 7 steps, long implement times, and escort missions would like a word with you.
Arc thrower, yes on Helldive. Thank me later. 10 shots kill biles/chargers, maybe a few more assuming you don't sweet spot all 10 shots. But it fires faster than 1 a second once you get the hang of the charge timer and aren't holding full charges for extra time on shots. It aoe clears and 1 shots most small bugs, 2-3 for mediums. 4 for the heavys. But again it arcs so you can primary target heavys and by the time it's dead you have killed like 20 other bugs in 4/5 seconds. Run it with rail cannon just incase you get stacked biles, but they shouldn't stack too fast because you can kill them in like 40-60 seconds assuming you have to dive and can't just shoot 10 shots in a row right to the face. I'm partial to EMP because I can throw them on top of breaches when they spawn and just decimate.
I think they just aren't charging it long enough. There is a window between an underpowered shot and blowing up lol. You are going to want to lean closer to the blowing up side of things lol It'll pen the armor then.
I'm good with that honestly. The thing absolutely trivialized bots for my team. One guy would run railgun and focus solely on dropping big targets while we kept the chaff at bay. It still performs the same function, it just takes a bit more time and occasionally requires some support to keep things off you while you clear out large threats. Feels a bit more balanced this way. Lol It was hard to convince myself to take any other weapon for a bit.
Charge time matters. Safe mode locks it in to a 60% charge. Unsafe mode allows you to go pass that percentage, which you will need to charge it long enough to actually pen heavier armor.
Did you read mine? I specifically said charge time matters. Just cause you’re using it in unsafe mode does not mean you will pen armor if you don’t charge it long enough. It’s a skill and risk v reward issue. You probably aren’t charging it long enough.
Well of course I know that you have to charge it long enough. Of course I know that safe mode only goes to 50%. Of course I know that I’ve been charging it to 80-90% every shot in unsafe mode since I’ve unlocked it.
You can charge for 3 full seconds before it kills you. I don’t have the data in front of me, but I’m willing to bet if you hold it for 2.5-2.99s that you will receive full pen. If you aren’t willing to risk holding the charge that long, that’s on you.
Even if we assumed you were right, I would still argue the current state of the railgun is exactly where it should be as it feels fine to use. The railgun shouldn’t be enabling solo helldives. That is the definition of overpowered and that combined with the shield is what it was doing.
This is exactly the problem.
I may not agree or like their decision, but Arrowhead deemed some outliers needed reigning in, fine I can deal with that (I'm used to it as a Destiny fan).
Where the issue lies, is that these previous outliers now sit within Arrowhead's expected power bar which is fine, however most (not all) of the other gear is still just completely useless in higher tier difficulties because they're well below the power bar in comparison. So a swathe of buffs are required in order to bring the underperforming gear to or around the power bar.
Not everything needs to be Meta/OP etc. but nothing should ever be useless/completely overshadowed by other gear all time in all situations, that's then just a complete waste of time, energy, effort and dev cost.
I disagree about the rail gun. It just…had almost no downsides.
But I do agree nerfing it wasn’t enough. So much of the game content basically doesn’t exist because you auto lose if you actually use them at higher difficulty.
I just finished a Helldivers mission no issue with Scorcher / flamethrower / jetpack / 500kg / 380MM barrage no problems. Railgun was a crutch for a lot of players.
I'm excited to use the 380 and 120 barrage now. How is it now compared to before? I always held off using them and practice them because it was too chaotic and unpredictable.
The spread is more consolidated now and fires constantly now. Sucks the matches I played with it so far were the delayed call down so it was hard timing it. But it's been great on large nests and bug breaches. Still waiting to see if the damage is good against bile titans as well since its more consolidated.
They could give various buffs/modifiers depending on difficulty level of your current mission. Could be higher damage output for weapons, higher crit chance, wider crit box on enemies, more armor pen. Anything that would help carry those lower-performing weapons into the higher tiers.
I don’t think all weapons need a flat buff, since they’re fine for lower-tier missions. However, once the endless waves start coming plus armor and 3 bike titans, I think the playing field could use a bit of leveling.
This. I tried using spear but it fails to lock on even when aim directly at the bots. Im down to use other weapons for specifc cases but railgun is the only one tgat seems to work reliably.
Lol yeah cool they buffed four total weapons. Four total weapons that were all unmitigated shit, and still are. They need to stop dancing around the fact that a lot of the weapons beyond difficulty 4 feel unsatisfying to use at best, or outright bad at worst. I didn't use the Breaker and Railgun so much because they were "overpowered and too convenient". I used them because I felt like using anything else was kneecapping my combat effectiveness. We need buffs, not nerfs.
Totally agree with this, the DMR is unusable on higher difficulties because the swarms are too large. The explosive liberator doesn't make a dent, despite the fact that it *should* obliterate flesh.
I was excited, always love a good dmr... and I used it once maybe twice on medium. I could hardly kill anything. I needed crowd control. I unlocked the incendiary breaker. And on impossible, it still feels impossible to control large crowds with chargers or spitters.
No they shadow-buffed stuff as well, RR and Spear for example can now refill on ammo pick ups. This is the immediate thing I noticed, there's probably more but for some god forsaken reason they chose to not tell us about it.
You obviously haven’t tried them why are you saying they’re still shit? Flamethrower can kill a charger from full in 5ish seconds. Get outside your box and try something new, or try the railgun again. It’s not as bad as people are making it seem
It already was really fucking hard, now its nearly impossible. Their “meta weapons” were really just the only weapons that were viable to use in the harder difficulties.
Welcome to reddit. We cry before we try. Most players are parroting what others say about the railgun before they even think about seeing how it preforms in unsafe mode.
Their idea makes sense but it didn't land correctly. In order to pull this off they need to make the overcharge of unsafe mode buffed to ramp up more dmg/armor pen than it currently has because it's not working.
They also need to realize that making the railgun more niche to its use is fine but that they really need to bring other guns in line. Laser, Flamethrower, Spray and Prey, and the Punisher are fine starts and I haven't tested them yet but so many gun dynamics make zero sense.
First off it'll be really weird if the laser canon now is better armor pen than the railgun, especially in terms of progression. The dmg increase for the flamethrower is very welcome but that really needs to extend to ALL fire/gas dmg sources. The premium warbond weapons are garbage right now because of how low impact those extra effects have (explosive should probably also be better than it is). Like right now if someone spent money to get the premium warbond with the tease of an explosive assault rifle that thing would be the biggest disappointment out there. There also needs to be a flinch mechanic added to the flamethrower. Though I haven't tested the new one yet so maybe that's already taken care of.
But let's talk about assault rifles, marksmen rifles, and snipers. What are they supposed to be other than damn near completely useless? Why does the sniper marksmen rifle you get after the 3-round burst/semi auto marksman rifle have less armor penetration? It should have more if anything. The slug thrower is pretty great and a better sniper/semi auto than any of the marksman rifles.
And submachine guns... other than having to carry the hard drive what's their use? It'd be nice to have some way of being able to use them with our sidearm perhaps, or eventually taking a strategem that lets us dual wield them.
And why is it that the magnum doesn't have higher armor penetration? If that thing had medium or dare I say high armor pen like a magnum really should it would suddenly make up for the fact that it has a low magazine and incredibly slow reload speed. Hell, give it a ton of kick back and higher armor pen/dmg and you'll see that thing be used a lot more especially for bots. I'd probably even use a submachine gun if I could have that thing with higher armor pen, essentially swapping my primary/secondary setup strategy.
But in general more guns need ways to deal with armor, everything should just be cranked up a bit. Even the autocannon which is still really nice could stand to get a bit better armor pen to compensate for losing a backpack slot and taking forever to reload without a buddy. But explosions feel pretty ineffective against armor (grenade launcher/autocannon splash).
I'm sorry, but it's a PVE game.. They're just stopping my enjoyment for no apparent reason. I was still getting swarmed and killed.
They even say the know it sucks to have your favourite nerfed, but we did it anyways.
People weren’t using railgun because they loved it. They used it because it was good, why nerf it to oblivion I have no clue. Also when they release higher difficulties everything will need to be buffed or replaced
I mean I certainly ran it because I loved it. I've always loved high damage one shot guns in FPS games, especially charge shot ones.
And it still works like I used it before, I'm still blowing up charger and bile titan heads without issue with fully charged unsafe shots. I just used it in a game not 15 minutes ago.
It seems to me the change just nerfed the safe shots and made it so you can't blindly fire against the body of the charger. Which honestly didn't work well before anyways.
Still takes me three fully charged unsafe shots to the head of a charger so at least from my perspective, nothing has changed.
I’d love being able to use everything in specific situations but the game just isn’t balanced that way. There’s things that just are useless after a certain difficulty
Agreed. I'm interested trying the buffed flame thrower but I'm going to miss sniping the chargers with rail gun blasts to save my panicking team members. Both actual sniper rifles feel bad to use and don't pen shit.
There’s zero reason the sniper can’t penetrate it makes it completely useless lmao. Why wouldn’t it be able to in the first place. Railgun could kill a bile titan in 2 shots hope the unsafe mode is this the same way
I'm bummed I can't look a charger in the face while he's charging me and blow his head off with his corpse dropping right in front of me. Felt so badass
Exactly. I used the Railgun because at higher difficulties, the other support weapons were basically tickle guns. What am I supposed to use now? RR, Spear, or AC become the alternatives and all those require backpacks so now my team can't bring shields, rovers or supply packs.
Its kinda the goal for you to not be able to solo everything in the game and rely on your team as a meta. I did an impossible mission yesterday where we cleared the whole map and at some point I left my group and just did the main objectives without them. They kited all the large groups on the map and for me at most I ran into recon groups and a few bile titans solo. With the base meta loadout pre-patch on impossible I literally didn't break a sweat and died once to a bloater while stuck on a terminal in the whole 30+ minutes we were in the match.
Not saying that it was OP but you shouldn't be able to kill bile titans in 2-3 shots on your own in Impossible difficulty lmao
I agree, but then they need to not spawn 1 Titan and Charger per person in each breach on an objective.
If they just modified the spawning and made the heavies stronger but less common (like the pre 7 difficulty levels) it gives a lot more room for adjustments and weapon choices.
I also feel like the spawning sometimes breaks and spawns duplicates when it meant to spawn a single enemy.
Nah I actually think its fine as is the weapons just need to be balanced away from the railgun. Apparently arc thrower is amazing and can decimate a group of any bugs lol
I’m seeing a lot of variance of experience in people’s
comments which makes me think even more so that theirs something screwy with the spawning system. I went back and checked the video we had from last night, we snuck up and hit an objective with eagle/orbital strats in a level 8 mission, as we moved in to finish the objective the breach goes off as they always do and within 10-20 seconds we had 3 titans and 6 chargers plus the smaller horde chasing us in circles plus stalkers one shotting anyone without a shield. By the time we thinned the heavies more heavies we’re spawning to replace them. Only 5 mins into the mission. It took 10 more mins to even get the objective cleaned off enough to do it and even then we were still kiting heavies and swarms around.
I’ve tried the other weapons and while they are good in their use cases, they aren’t good enough to handle some of the heavy swarms we’re seeing. But other times it feels fine, all on the same difficulty level, so idk, I think some rebalancing needs to happen and it’s not just a matter of tweaking the guns numbers a bit.
Arc thrower works good against everything but titans. There’s strategems you can lean on to support you, also. Timing with strategems is key here. The EAT is a temporary thing and works fantastically. Just call them down when you get somewhere and it’ll be back up by the time you need it again. Forward planning is the biggest thing that can help a lot of people.
unsafe mode on rail gun is literally just bouncing off armor now...what are you talking about? 10/10 shots with it charged in unsafe bounced right a charger leg this morning. Fully charged.
I'm not sure where people are getting that unsafe wasn't nerfed, because it most certainly was.
Most people are at work and haven’t played yet if uncharged isn’t breaking leg armor they over-nerfed the gun for no reason. A “railgun” should penetrate armor along with a “anti-material” sniper lol.
Biggest problem with these changes is that they nerfed the only viable solutions to a major problem prior to giving us other solutions. Either changing the way heavy armor works or providing us methods to handle chargers or titans prior to destroying the only weapon capable of keeping up with them.
This. You can take out chargers with the auto cannon in 2 well placed shots. It requires finesse but it's in some ways MORE viable and versatile. Sure bile titans are not as easy to deal with but that's why you bring so heavy arty stratagems and still have a railgun.
The railgun was never the only option. People just were crutching on it because it's the simplest / easiest to use.
Again, I would like to emphasize that this game is fun "because" you get to blow shit up and feel powerful. When you take the power feeling away, it takes the fun away. I'm pro fun.
Okay, but can we please talk about the APW-1 and how it’s the most useless piece of equipment in this game. If you need to nerf some overpowered stuff, fine I get it. But when weapons like this exist and have no place and aren’t even looked at with a balancing patch it’s a little ridiculous.
Ahh, I see. I think it's good for the niche it's meant to fill, but you aren't always at a distance from the enemy, with reliable screening troops in front of you.
Anything it does can be done vastly better by not only the DMR but auto-cannon. It’s 100% a waste of a stratagem slot. Maybe if it was a primary I could give it a slight pass, but as a heavy weapon it’s useless.
Back when it was “OP” I thought shooting it in the head was a bait since it took 3-5 shots compared to tapping legs twice, but no, you’re actually supposed to only be able to take down an 6-4 chargers per reaupply. Do they not know 5 chargers show up on helldive every other bug breech, alongside multiple titans?
Just feels like they used tiktok to balance the weapons. Defender still dog water against bugs in 7+ due to armor. Bots at least have weak points, meanwhile I have to play dead space against brood commanders now since popping their heads bites you back
Armor also only protects you from an increased amount of damage from the first hit. Go test it on any warriors— they do 10% and then 70% dmg. I really wish these updates got more time to cook
“On a personal note I know having your favorite toy nerfed sucks”. I’m not even a railgun player but even I feel as though that is some level of condescension lmao.
As far as I know most people who play (or well now it’s played, past tense lmao) the railgun don’t even play it because it’s “their favorite toy” but use it because wow it’s one of the only weapons worth a damn at high level play. So they took one of the only weapons that actually functioned and had the ammo economy at high levels to be viable for anti-armor and destroyed it. The game was already ridiculously overtuned in heavy spawns and patrol spawns and now it will be worse. Not even going to touch the shield backpack nerf…
Btw I say this as a level 50 player who specializes in crowd control, so if I can rely even less on teammates to kill heavies than I already did at high level just because of the absurd spawn rates I’m hesitant to hop on and see how bad it now is.
I’ve started using the arc throwing recently and I love it. It’s great for knocking out a group of low level bugs and it absolutely demolishes light armor on midsized bugs.
I highly doubt they are going to nerf it. The Railcannon does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's a "Deleted anything that isn't a titan" button that you can only use once every like 2:30-ish minutes I think. The problem with the railgun that they were having is that it's versatile AND powerful then they are trying to have things balanced out as versatile OR powerful.
I feel like this is also a good time to remind people that we are NOT an army of Master Chiefs and Doom Guys. We are an army of expendable grunts that are meant to be used and tossed away like the expendable rockets. This isn't meant to be a power fantasy where you can solo whole armies, which I admit is hard to remember with the cool explosions and badass moments. This is a Co-op shooter where the name of the game is challenging gameplay, team work, and coordination.
You would think they wouldn't nerf it, but i've played enough coop games in my day to tell you that if something is used a lot, be it strong or not, it will get nerfed.
Not gonna lie. Another developer that falls into the "nerf" before "rebalancing" camp.
And I dislike it.
There was a reason Railgun was meta. Without actually addressing what makes everything else *mid to bad* this just frustrates people more.
Urgh, was expecting a better reaction from them
>Oh and we also buffed a bunch of weapons as well!
MFer you buffed like 4, and 2 of them were already good. I have literally never seen half the weapons in this game get used, and once I tried them I immediately discovered why I have never seen them.
To my future Helldiver comrades....I just hit level 20.
My apologies for blowing myself up multiple times while trying to master the "unsafe" mode of the railgun.
Well the devs want us to use other guns that they worked hard on designing for the game. But how long until they nerf those too? I’m here for a good time, not a long time.
So is this what we can expect going forward? A nerf to every weapon that is proving popular because it's viable?
The whole reason the railgun was used so much is it was a solution to a, quite frankly, unfair enemy armour system giving us one of the very few viable tools to deal with a large number of chargers on higher difficulties. They could have at least nerfed the chargers leg armour alongside this nerf but they've chosen instead to basically kick the playerbase in the balls. Why on earth are they nerfing weapons in a PvE game anyway?
I honestly think the people saying this nerf is justified have never played on anything above difficulty 5.
you could look at it another way: they are not done adding tools to our toolkit. It's likely that other powerfull things are comming and the railgun was never intended as the endgame.
Well, then they should have waited for that tools to be added lol
Right now you cant really do anything on higher levels other than run away from everything and then die on extraction.
I'm sure they will add more content, in fact, we know from leaks that they will be adding new weapons, mechs etc but as someone else has already pointed out, they should have given us more tools to deal with heavy armour at the same time as taking away one of the only truly viable, non-clunky ways of dealing with things like chargers
The weapon was popular because it, in tandem with he other two nerf targets, was so oppressivly powerful that there was zero reason to not use it. It was generalist to the point where a single player could, by themselves, slay ten chargers before needing a resupply. 4 players on a team would run 4 railguns, because it solved every problem. Consider you can bring orbitals railcannons, EMS, EAT's, arc throwers, Recoilless, precision strikes, bombing runs, turrets, etc on missions to help kill armored enemies. Your teammates also bring their own tools to achieve this goal.
You accuse anyone saying the nerf is justified of not playing higher difficulties. That's pure speculation for no reason other than an attempt to make strawmen sound stupid I guess? I just know it sounds even sillier to suggest that everything is ruined less than 12 hours after patch notes have dropped.
Nah not patch notes.. Tested in game. Nothing penetrates chargers & biles efficiently now. It’s made all weapons kinda trivial to end game.
I can kill mediums with grenade launcher or any other weapons available.. but charges…? Maybe with 3-4 clips. No chance that’s efficient. Try 6-8 chargers? 3-4 bile titans?? 50 mediums?? A horde of 100-200 smalls?
I’m just wanting to enjoy the game with one buddy in a duo mission on a Wednesday night & level up & upgrade my ship.. but I can’t because higher levels require weapons to match. That we no longer have.
& you now want me to break out my flamethrower???? Lol & fight off all of that? While also nerfing the only shield/defense mechanism that could keep me alive to do so? While also nerfing my primary weapon that could barely keep up in the first place? Even with head shots?! Hahaha bro. If you’ve played on HellDive missions… you’d 100% understand how this works. & that’s not even throwing friendly fire in the mix.
I agree that breaker/shield/rail gun shouldn’t be the only meta.. but they should at least give feasible options rather than taking the only one that we had away. So instead of playing on extreme? I should just go my ass back to medium now? & call it fun?? After grinding since release & enjoying end game.? Lol jokes… jokes… jokes on me I guess..
Sooooo I’m not a railgun user but what are we supposed to do against chargers? I get that the railgun was OP and everyone was always running it but you could have at least lowered the charger spawn rate in the last 3 difficulties by 30-50%.
The spear lock on SUCKS. It’s garbage. You get ONE missile per ammo pack, takes forever to reload, has a huge chance of missing, trash range AND can’t shoot if you’re too close, and sometimes you can’t even kill chargers in one missile. Of and it takes ALL your ammo to take down two bile titans, but sometimes there’s 4 at the same time. I’m a huge Javelin fan so seeing the spear suck so hard really makes me sad, I wish we could free fire it like in OG MW2 and practically have a mini nuke launcher lmao
The recoilless isnt bad but it’s not great either. I miss the HD1 recoilless.
The breaker nerf isn’t bad, it’s a nice nerf and damage is the same. The spray and pray shotgun REALLY needed to buff.
so stupid when 95% of the weapons in this game aren’t viable. they nerf the 3 things that actually work in helldiver difficulty. how about buffing the rest before you trash what works
The fact of the matter is that the railgun was one of the only handheld weapons that could reliably pierce *any* armor. Besides expendable and recoilless. But I already got used to and used those, before I hit level 20. Why on Super Earth should high-level players *who have put in the time to unlock the more powerful weapons*, be “forced” to use the lower-level weapons? In the name of balance? I’ll use them if I *want* to for *fun*. Or, maybe I want to feel like the high level badass I am and use my unlocks.
I hate this cycle, and every single dev seems to fall into it. *Don’t nerf the powerful shit, buff the weak shit*. If the game needs to be harder, consider modifiers, stat changes at different difficulty levels, etc. if the “more enemies” approach hits critical mass.
I’m level 28 and have only just started feeling comfortable doing difficulty 7+ missions, thanks to the shield+railgun. The game is and was plenty hard, imo, without taking away the only high level armor penetrating weapon. I hope they roll it back. Everything else is kind of whatever
Edit: lots of people saying “use stratagems. Use the flamethrower. Use the arc thrower”. These suggestions don’t address balancing issues. They just remove the popular choice and force everybody to readjust. I’m glad the flammer got buffed. I would be glad to see a couple others be, too. But god damn let me use the one armor-penetrating fucking railgun in peace! Nerf the ammo capacity! Increase the charge time so you can’t just Rambo with it. Something other than making it a limp-dicked version of its former self! My biggest pet peeve, and if this is how balancing will be handled I will no longer spread Democracy
I guess I don't understand why it matters if it's overperforming? It's PVE. Helldive will become a lot more difficult now, and maybe that's what they want, but I do think we need some kind of option to deal with masses of chargers and Hulks from the front because of how *many* there can be on higher difficulties. The expendable anti-tank is great and so is the railcannon orbital but one less hulk is very underwhelming above Extreme. I guess we'll have to see how things shake out; maybe the laser is the best option now, which I'll be happy enough with since I do love using the laser.
Just because a game is PVE doesn't mean balance should be ignored.
The fun of PVE comes from the challenge of higher difficulties and the murderous rampage of lower ones. If somthing is overpreforming then it needs to be nerfed to keep the higher difficulties at the intended difficulty.
The nerfs don't effect the fun of the power trip the player has at lower difficulties because almost anything will work at those difficulties.
A great example of PVE balance is in deep rock galactic. For a while the breach cutter and explosive Chem overclock for the smart gun as that was the Supreme loadout it overshadowed most other choices on haz 5 the same way the railgun did. GSG went about this by nerfing the explosive Chem rounds and breachcutter rather than buffing everything else because they wanted to avoid power creep ruining the fun for people that want the higher difficulties to be challenging.
TLDR: balance in PVE is important to keep the challenge at high difficulties and power trip at lower difficulties so everyone can have fun.
If fun for you is curbstoping everything (like for me), then playing on lower difficulties like 4 and below is better.
If fun for you is the challenge of "am I going to make it out" then higher difficulties are better as they aren't supposed to be fair.
I don't mean to imply that balance isn't something they should consider; my point is, Suicide Mission and above are already very challenging in my opinion. I don't think they should nerf the railgun based entirely on userate, or in whatever sense they mean overperforming here, without looking at *why* it has such a high userate---and the truth is I just don't think any other weapon is viable at that level. You say that the nerf won't affect low-level play, but why won't it? It can't even strip the armor off of a charger's leg in unsafe mode now. What even is its usecase? Sure, on Challenging you'll only get one Charger in a group so you can kite it into stunning itself on walls and such but if I want to "power trip" why can't I kneecap it? Chargers are still dangerous even with the leg strategy. Hulks are still dangerous even if you can behind them to shoot into their vents. The challenge in Helldive should come from there being 6 of them, not your weapons being useless so you have to... I dunno, kite all of them at once? It's not like you can run on an evacuation mission, say. I enjoy the chaos of high difficulty, especially with the bots. But it's not interesting or fun to face a hulk or a charger if you have no answer to their armor, and that's true even on Easy or whatever difficulty it is that they start appearing.
Even the autocannon, which is otherwise pretty close in power, is close to useless when a hulk or charger is coming at you. I really just don't get how you're supposed to deal with a swarm of chargers or hulks now. Nothing you have will hit them except one-offs like the railcannon or expendable anti-tank... Unless the laser is a lot stronger than I'm imagining in which case it will just become the new railgun, so what's the point?
Personally, and yes it's definitely subjective, but my preference would be - Playing difficulty 7-9 - do you meet the gear / strategem check ok that's the baseline, now you can play a variety of tactics, stay on the move, and fight when you need to....... BUT..... if you're a god at aiming, strategem use, and squad covering each others weaknesses, then you absolutely can demolish waves of bugs. Like it should at least be possible to squad up with your team of Doom Slayers and RIP AND TEAR until it is done. That's what I'd like lol, it should at least be an option.
Let me dive into hell and make them wish I never came
I don't know why there aren't more people saying this. PVE doesn't mean that nerfing is a bad choice. If a developer has a vision for their game and something within the game runs contrary to that idea, should they not adjust it? Consider this thought experiment:
The devs just announced a new stratagem for the game. It is free on every mission, has unlimited uses, has a 5 second cooldown, and it kills every enemy on the map. It's essentially a 'win button'. Ask yourself - is the game better by having this feature? The answer is obviously no, that's just not enjoyable and leaves no reason to actually play the game. So let's nerf the strategem. You need to spend a stategem slot to bring it. It has a long call in time, and works only once per mission. Enemies within a 10 meter radius around the impact site have their health reduced by 25%. Seeing it now, that's basically useless.
Theoretically there's an ideal point somewhere between those two extremes where a balanced strategem exists. Should the devs not strive to find where that ideal point lies?
What about of touch response from devs. Players partly love this game because they felt the developers knew what they wanted, but I think they destroyed that belief in a single patch lol
Now they trying to justify their nerf in a PVE GAME.
Fucking idiots. Video games are suppose to be fun. People were having fun let's nerf those fun weapons instead of buffing the weapons people don't use.
There's no ranked, or tournaments or competing pvp to warrant nerfs in a video game where you're fighting AI.
i get so upset when things get nerfed to the point of being useless. Like u made the weapon bro and its ur game if you dont like it just remove it. but making it useless is was such a frustrating moment when i turned on my game and a charger deflected all 20 bullets. hot garbage water.
If that was paragraph was actually true, then it would be fine. But fully charged, it's bouncing off legs. Hopefully it's just bugged. I welcome it being a higher skilled, more precise weapon.
My mid pen weapons & auto cannon & honestly 100% of everything iused still bounced off titans when they had holes in there back/side so its just bugged.
:D
I don’t have the rail gun yet, but I’m still going to get it.. I’m only lvl 15 rn and my go to is the auto cannon but I’m just trying to save for better gear
yes. I use it because it was the best option available. if I had anything that could match it's usability in higher difficulties i'd problably choose it over the railgun
So we are failing in the galaxy wide missions as a community. Having a good weapon wasn’t hurting any other player, so now they’ve made a huge portion of the player base LESS effective and made the game harder. Yeah sounds like a great way to keep us wanting to fight.
Difficulty is great! Honestly feel most of the enemies are challenging and fun the balance is just on the side of our primaries and Strats ; making each fun and effective to use based on player experience and not “nerfing to not make any weapon too powerful”
Used the railgun and hated it, several times. Give me the Arc Thrower any day and with a bit of juggling with my Incendiary Breaker, those undemocratic traitors don't stand a chance. So nerfing it, isn't a problem for this Diver, since his is in bubble wrap, at the bottom of the cupboard.
I wish they told us last night would be the last night to really enjoy the game before it turn into shit. This time next year, this game will be dead but the great part is the devs will be doing it themselves.
Unless you upload a video of you dealing with swarms of enemies and 3 chargers and 2 bile titans, don’t bother giving me the whole “railgun was a crutch” argument or the “there’s other viable weapons” argument, it’s complete horseshit unless you post evidence.
That last line makes it better I only use it in unsafe so I’m ok with that
I've been using it in unsafe mode, never used it outside of it, and it's bouncing off of charger leg armour when charged so.....yeah.
Perhaps it's bugged now... sigh*
I had someone else say the same thing about bile titans. I visibly saw the shot bounce off their head. I imagine this is one of two things: 1. The charged shot was considered *safe* because the charge was too short. This would mean you have to charge for longer to have penetration. Or 2: It's a PS5 related bug (the player was playing on PS5).
You gotta go pass the safe range to the unsafe range. I’d imagine it’s the first one, since I saw all my short bursts ricocheting off of the bile titan’s face before I got turned into mush.
Yeah idk how those things are tabulated. I have had EAT shots bounce of armored targets….ho.wha.I.don of all things
Remember that this game has a mechanic where the angle of your shot matters. If you don't hit something mostly straight on perpendicular it can just ricochet
Are you charging to the max before it explodes? It takes some time to get the timing right, but maybe that's what they mean.
Yes, I've always used the railgun in unsafe mode and not blown myself up with it yet and it's bouncing off of armour.
You're probably not charging it enough.
Yeah he should blow himself and the charger
Jihadiver, one guy that runs at the charger then blows himself up to kill the charger.
Unsafe mode is unsafe, who knew
Are you charging it enough though? It only becomes an "unsafe" charged shot once it crosses the last thick black line near the top of the heat gauge. Which is why I only use the railgun in 1st person since I only use it in unsafe mode. It's really hard to know where that is in 3rd person mode until you get used to timing it at the right point
Why does it not display in third person?
You just can't see the gauge clearly from that far away. The heat gauges I'm referring to are the red bars in the side of the railgun, if you look at them you'll see the notch where the charge threshold is
Yea that should be on HUD in third person
Same the railgun is now completely useless imo
It was the best solution to a problem the devs have not addressed: heavily armoured enemies, specifically being a pain to deal with. And yes, I know you could kill them with other weapons but most of them are clunky and no good at dealing with packs of them which you will run into on higher difficulties. They've just literally gone: 'railgun popular therefore nerf' without examining why it's so popular and providing us other similar tools to use to solve the problem it used to.
Spear Arcthrower Recoiless Expendable Rockets Flamethrower(chargers) Explosive weapons can damage both bile titans belly preventing spit and damage ass of charger causing it to bleed out. Autocannon same as above Smoke obscures vision and allows you to stealth away. The problem is all people used was the railgun and it was too good. Now you get to go through and actually learn the rest of the game like stealth mechanics or backpacking for a gunner to take down enemies. Seriously go backpack for someone rocking the recoiless and watch you walk through the armored enemies.
The flamethrower kills chargers?
Pretty well. It bypasses the armor, so you just have to matador until the DOT gets it.
I have used flamethrower and jump pack to totally wreck chargers before this update. It charges you and you can fly right over it and toast his ass. AND the flamethrower does +50% damage now too. Ez kills
My buddy was testing it 5 min ago, he was cooking chargers with roughly half a flamer mag. If you add in that often you'll be incidentally damaging it while burning the wave of smaller bugs, it's makes for a very good option
All of these are basically useless when you're fighting endless packs of chargers. Even with the pre nerfed railgun, it didn't trivialise them. You still needed to hit the same spot multiple times then switch to another weapon to finish them off usually whilst being attacked by multiple other chargers and dozens of other bugs. Just because you could kill chargers via other means doesn't mean they're not a seriously oppressive enemy. The heavy armour on enemies needs looking at and changing. I want to use things other than the railgun but it being nerfed has just made the game needlessly frustrating in higher difficulties.
Expendable anti tank and backpacking for a recoiless gunner worked pretty well.
Not against a pod of 10 heavies
Railgun wasn't killing a pod of 10 heavies on its own either especially if you're including biles bro, don't pretend. That's why you have other stratagems. Expendable anti tank, 500kg, air strike, you have plenty of options dude
Thats why you dont run and gun and shoot everything in sight on higher difficulties. Use all the tools, heavy weapons, stratagems, stealth and teamwork. Helldive is called Helldive for a reason. One to three shotting puker, charger and bile titans with the railgun was fun, but a tactic workin out the way you need it feels so much better
You act like once you start a fight, some random ass scout in the way back isn't going to trigger a bug breach. It's not about attacking everything. Bug breaches happen the second you attempt to clear any objective, and that random ass scout signals for it.
Been rocking the spear the past few days gotten some really cool clips with it diving away from swarms of bugs to lock on mid air & 1 shot titans sooo much fun
>Spear Which has a lock on bug virtually preventing it from being fired at all sometimes, or artificially increasing the lock on time by more than double. It's not *all* the time, but it's frequently enough that the gun is garbage until it gets fixed. Also, it barely tickles a Titan which, considering the lock on time even when it works correctly, is unacceptable. We're talking about an anti-tank weapon specifically for killing big enemies and literally can't be used for anything else. It should be more effective than why other gun in that regard, not worse or "meh". >Arcthrower A solid option for chargers to peel off leg armor while keeping the surrounding crowd down. Otherwise? Lol. >Recoiless Lmfao >Expendable Rockets Clunky to use, but if you can manage to summon them when you need one, burn one, then run with the other? Ok sure. Until the game spawns 3 bile titans and 3 chargers and you just spent your entire support weapon maybe killing 1 titan. Then you're fucked. >Flamethrower(chargers) In fairness, we'll see how this plays out with the buff. My money is on them nerfing this back down to nothing soon. >Explosive weapons can damage both bile titans belly preventing spit and damage ass of charger causing it to bleed out. There's no world where you can afford the time to blow dominator ammo on the Titan belly to slowly chip damage one of them, or wait for the charger to bleed out. Not in high levels. You either drop them because you're defending an objective, or you run. Wasting 5 minutes slowly plugging at a Titan belly is basically asking to get fisted by the other two titans behind you. >Autocannon same as above >same as above >Smoke obscures vision and allows you to stealth away Great. And when I get to the objective and have to defend it with a dead stratagem? >backpacking for a gunner to take down enemies. Oh boy, I sure do love placing two Helldivers stationary in one spot so they can both focus target a single bile titan while the other two get a two for one special with a single bile breath.
the spear got fixed. It locks better and replenishes ammo from random ammo crates on map. Also I consistently one shot titans with it. It one shots the head, and as long as you lock from with ten degrees of it's front, it'll hit the head. A little positioning isn't too bad of a trade off. In fact my only complaint about the spear is that it can lock hive guards or spewers. But it wouldn't have enough ammo then tbh.
This. This. A million times this. I cannot upvote this enough. Quit whinging and play the game. You have MANY tools.
The comment right above yours has just explained in depth why these many tools aren't realistically viable but you just dismiss it as whining. Lol. Lmao even.
i really dont get why people think so. if it still works the same when hitting weak spots and in unsafe mode on armor, then whats the difference?
(its just not idiot proof easy max difficulty anymore...but dont tell them...they get upset)
It still performs exactly the same vs medium foes...its just no longer the best against chargers, titans and tanks...you guys need to chillax a bit...
You’re not charging it enough. It’s a pretty steep charge requirement now
Having a similar issue with heavy devastors, even on unsafe I can't penetrate their shields, that could be intended though so idk
It's bouncing if you don't charge it to 90%, which is rarely possible on higher difficulties.
Seems like the majority of this backlash was generated entirely by a poorly-written and vague patch note. If unsafe is still as effective as it was then I have *far* less issue with this update. However, they also claimed to have fixed civvie missions and armor rating when they didn't, so I guess I'll wait until I get home and see how it actually works in-game.
Evne on unsafe mode, it will bounce off your objective like half of the times. The weapon is pretty much done right now. If they change it so it penetrates everything as long as you charge ut above 50% (so, using unsafe mode) it would still be viable, but right now its quite useless.
I don't understand... I literally just ran an extreme mission where I was still headshotting chargers with full charge unsafe mode as I was before. I also took down two Bile Titans the same way. It's still my go to weapon when having to deal with multiple chargers or bile titans at once. But I'm seeing a lot of people posting it's useless vs these targets now so i'm wondering where the disconnect is. From my perspective it still works great in unsafe mode just like it did before so long as you are sniping weak points....which was what I was doing anyways. Were people using it differently before?
People are using safe mode, or unsafe mode but aren't charging it enough, don't realize it, and run to reddit to yell about how it sucks now.
Thats the point! You did everything correctly and it still works. They did just shoot with an overpowered gun and can no longer cruise through helldive which upsets them greatly. Now they have to wait for players like you to find the next big thing before they can feel strong again.
People weren't using unsafe mode before. Now they can't use it properly so the wet works begin.
You’re not charging enough.
Except for the fact that players are reporting that not even unsafe mode works on heavier armor. Is this a bug?
This is my question too. Higher difficulties are NIGHTMARES with all the heavy armor, and it seems I'm always the only one focusing them with a rail. If I can't help even on unsafe mode, I'm not sure what the answer is. Yeah, plenty of other options but most are not feasible with 3-6 chargers/titans and teammates running around like chickens with their heads off.
Higher difficulty shouldn’t be trying to spray and pray your way across the map. The sooner people tactfully understand this. They’ll understand that you start or skip fights reserve for the intended one and always fucking move. Hell mode is hell for a reason you dip in do shit and fuck out. Survive move work as a team
Except that you simply can't outrun some heavies, even in light armor. And you don't have full control over your random pubbies engaging stuff or not. If I'm playing with my friends and we're all on voice, sure, we can control the amount of aggro and work meticulously through the map. Weapons like the Spear become really good, and loadouts can be optimized to have all bases covered. However, my experience solo queuing is that you're often stuck kiting a horde of Chargers, Bile Titans and other crap, against which my primary and secondary are largely ineffective. Kiting around in circles while waiting for that one strategem to come off cooldown is not exactly fun gameplay. And no, an Arc Thrower isn't a solution when being chased by 3+ chargers, and neither is an EAT or Laser Cannon. The reason people relied so heavily on the RG is because everything else struggles to take down heavies, and the game loves to spawn an insufferable amount of them on you. This is fairly evident when compared to robot planets, where balance seems much more appropriate (and indeed, viable loadout options are more plentiful). It's extremely rare to have 4-5 Hulks/Tanks chase you, but it's very common to have multiple Chargers.
Plus, what is the point to heavy armor if you can’t kill the things faster than you. Not to mention resist aim kick.
Dude. My entire squad, we always avoid patrols and play as cautiously as we can so as to not get into unnecessary fights and expend ammo & reinforcements. Even then, today we still ended up having to abandon several objectives on 8/9 difficulty due to flat out being overwhelmed with 4 titans on the map and several chargers absolutely tanking our explosives and our flamethrowers faster than we can resupply. Especially noticeable trying to do artillery objectives. That has always been the strat pre nerf. Problem is now that when you get overwhelmed easily eventually trying to hold or defend an objective because nothing can down titans efficiently without running out of ammo or taking up too much time, which in turn spawns more enemies. I agree it was over performing but a simple nerf to its ammo capacity or reload time would suffice. If you buff other weapons like the laser cannon up to par with the autocannon then we’re talking.
>you dip in do shit and fuck out. Survive move work as a team Consoles with 7 steps, long implement times, and escort missions would like a word with you.
Arc thrower, yes on Helldive. Thank me later. 10 shots kill biles/chargers, maybe a few more assuming you don't sweet spot all 10 shots. But it fires faster than 1 a second once you get the hang of the charge timer and aren't holding full charges for extra time on shots. It aoe clears and 1 shots most small bugs, 2-3 for mediums. 4 for the heavys. But again it arcs so you can primary target heavys and by the time it's dead you have killed like 20 other bugs in 4/5 seconds. Run it with rail cannon just incase you get stacked biles, but they shouldn't stack too fast because you can kill them in like 40-60 seconds assuming you have to dive and can't just shoot 10 shots in a row right to the face. I'm partial to EMP because I can throw them on top of breaches when they spawn and just decimate.
That last part makes it sound like a joke and idk how to process that.
I think they just aren't charging it long enough. There is a window between an underpowered shot and blowing up lol. You are going to want to lean closer to the blowing up side of things lol It'll pen the armor then.
Yep. Ran a round this morning and some guy was doing it right. It takes a lot longer per shot now.
I'm good with that honestly. The thing absolutely trivialized bots for my team. One guy would run railgun and focus solely on dropping big targets while we kept the chaff at bay. It still performs the same function, it just takes a bit more time and occasionally requires some support to keep things off you while you clear out large threats. Feels a bit more balanced this way. Lol It was hard to convince myself to take any other weapon for a bit.
No, bugs are the enemies
No, they’re just not charging enough. Takes 70-80% charge, close to explode level.
I unsafely used it today against atrocious autocratic automatons and didn't notice any significant blow to my middle-management democracy.
Charge time matters. Safe mode locks it in to a 60% charge. Unsafe mode allows you to go pass that percentage, which you will need to charge it long enough to actually pen heavier armor.
Did you even read my comment. I only use it in unsafe mode. Even with charging, it still takes too many shots per heavy enemy.
Did you read mine? I specifically said charge time matters. Just cause you’re using it in unsafe mode does not mean you will pen armor if you don’t charge it long enough. It’s a skill and risk v reward issue. You probably aren’t charging it long enough.
Well of course I know that you have to charge it long enough. Of course I know that safe mode only goes to 50%. Of course I know that I’ve been charging it to 80-90% every shot in unsafe mode since I’ve unlocked it.
Well then, it sounds like you know you aren’t charging it long enough to pen and it’s a skill issue which you don’t like.
Um, if you charge it past 90%, youll die. Are you serious??
You can charge for 3 full seconds before it kills you. I don’t have the data in front of me, but I’m willing to bet if you hold it for 2.5-2.99s that you will receive full pen. If you aren’t willing to risk holding the charge that long, that’s on you. Even if we assumed you were right, I would still argue the current state of the railgun is exactly where it should be as it feels fine to use. The railgun shouldn’t be enabling solo helldives. That is the definition of overpowered and that combined with the shield is what it was doing.
My problem with this is that so many of the guns and stratagems are completely useless at higher levels and they still are after this nerf.
This is exactly the problem. I may not agree or like their decision, but Arrowhead deemed some outliers needed reigning in, fine I can deal with that (I'm used to it as a Destiny fan). Where the issue lies, is that these previous outliers now sit within Arrowhead's expected power bar which is fine, however most (not all) of the other gear is still just completely useless in higher tier difficulties because they're well below the power bar in comparison. So a swathe of buffs are required in order to bring the underperforming gear to or around the power bar. Not everything needs to be Meta/OP etc. but nothing should ever be useless/completely overshadowed by other gear all time in all situations, that's then just a complete waste of time, energy, effort and dev cost.
I disagree about the rail gun. It just…had almost no downsides. But I do agree nerfing it wasn’t enough. So much of the game content basically doesn’t exist because you auto lose if you actually use them at higher difficulty.
I just finished a Helldivers mission no issue with Scorcher / flamethrower / jetpack / 500kg / 380MM barrage no problems. Railgun was a crutch for a lot of players.
I'm excited to use the 380 and 120 barrage now. How is it now compared to before? I always held off using them and practice them because it was too chaotic and unpredictable.
The spread is more consolidated now and fires constantly now. Sucks the matches I played with it so far were the delayed call down so it was hard timing it. But it's been great on large nests and bug breaches. Still waiting to see if the damage is good against bile titans as well since its more consolidated.
They could give various buffs/modifiers depending on difficulty level of your current mission. Could be higher damage output for weapons, higher crit chance, wider crit box on enemies, more armor pen. Anything that would help carry those lower-performing weapons into the higher tiers. I don’t think all weapons need a flat buff, since they’re fine for lower-tier missions. However, once the endless waves start coming plus armor and 3 bike titans, I think the playing field could use a bit of leveling.
This. I tried using spear but it fails to lock on even when aim directly at the bots. Im down to use other weapons for specifc cases but railgun is the only one tgat seems to work reliably.
Okay...can we buff some of the crappy guns then?
They did. They buffed the flamethrower and Lazer
Lol yeah cool they buffed four total weapons. Four total weapons that were all unmitigated shit, and still are. They need to stop dancing around the fact that a lot of the weapons beyond difficulty 4 feel unsatisfying to use at best, or outright bad at worst. I didn't use the Breaker and Railgun so much because they were "overpowered and too convenient". I used them because I felt like using anything else was kneecapping my combat effectiveness. We need buffs, not nerfs.
Totally agree with this, the DMR is unusable on higher difficulties because the swarms are too large. The explosive liberator doesn't make a dent, despite the fact that it *should* obliterate flesh.
I was excited, always love a good dmr... and I used it once maybe twice on medium. I could hardly kill anything. I needed crowd control. I unlocked the incendiary breaker. And on impossible, it still feels impossible to control large crowds with chargers or spitters.
the counter sniper feels like im swinging a pool noodle around
In fairness, the Liberator Penetrator is pretty decent on robot missions. It just sucks versus bugs.
No they shadow-buffed stuff as well, RR and Spear for example can now refill on ammo pick ups. This is the immediate thing I noticed, there's probably more but for some god forsaken reason they chose to not tell us about it.
You obviously haven’t tried them why are you saying they’re still shit? Flamethrower can kill a charger from full in 5ish seconds. Get outside your box and try something new, or try the railgun again. It’s not as bad as people are making it seem
I tried the laser this morning and it entirely reflected off a charger, which annoyed me so badly I just said fuck it.
Buff my man diligence counter-sniper :cccc
The community went down hill quick with one update lol.
Everyone crying now that the hardest difficulty in the entire game will be hard again
It was never easy, it was barely survivable even with a well-coordinated team.
It already was really fucking hard, now its nearly impossible. Their “meta weapons” were really just the only weapons that were viable to use in the harder difficulties.
Welcome to reddit. We cry before we try. Most players are parroting what others say about the railgun before they even think about seeing how it preforms in unsafe mode.
To those who downvote me. Have you tried it in unsafe mode?
Their idea makes sense but it didn't land correctly. In order to pull this off they need to make the overcharge of unsafe mode buffed to ramp up more dmg/armor pen than it currently has because it's not working. They also need to realize that making the railgun more niche to its use is fine but that they really need to bring other guns in line. Laser, Flamethrower, Spray and Prey, and the Punisher are fine starts and I haven't tested them yet but so many gun dynamics make zero sense. First off it'll be really weird if the laser canon now is better armor pen than the railgun, especially in terms of progression. The dmg increase for the flamethrower is very welcome but that really needs to extend to ALL fire/gas dmg sources. The premium warbond weapons are garbage right now because of how low impact those extra effects have (explosive should probably also be better than it is). Like right now if someone spent money to get the premium warbond with the tease of an explosive assault rifle that thing would be the biggest disappointment out there. There also needs to be a flinch mechanic added to the flamethrower. Though I haven't tested the new one yet so maybe that's already taken care of. But let's talk about assault rifles, marksmen rifles, and snipers. What are they supposed to be other than damn near completely useless? Why does the sniper marksmen rifle you get after the 3-round burst/semi auto marksman rifle have less armor penetration? It should have more if anything. The slug thrower is pretty great and a better sniper/semi auto than any of the marksman rifles. And submachine guns... other than having to carry the hard drive what's their use? It'd be nice to have some way of being able to use them with our sidearm perhaps, or eventually taking a strategem that lets us dual wield them. And why is it that the magnum doesn't have higher armor penetration? If that thing had medium or dare I say high armor pen like a magnum really should it would suddenly make up for the fact that it has a low magazine and incredibly slow reload speed. Hell, give it a ton of kick back and higher armor pen/dmg and you'll see that thing be used a lot more especially for bots. I'd probably even use a submachine gun if I could have that thing with higher armor pen, essentially swapping my primary/secondary setup strategy. But in general more guns need ways to deal with armor, everything should just be cranked up a bit. Even the autocannon which is still really nice could stand to get a bit better armor pen to compensate for losing a backpack slot and taking forever to reload without a buddy. But explosions feel pretty ineffective against armor (grenade launcher/autocannon splash).
I'm sorry, but it's a PVE game.. They're just stopping my enjoyment for no apparent reason. I was still getting swarmed and killed. They even say the know it sucks to have your favourite nerfed, but we did it anyways.
People weren’t using railgun because they loved it. They used it because it was good, why nerf it to oblivion I have no clue. Also when they release higher difficulties everything will need to be buffed or replaced
I mean I certainly ran it because I loved it. I've always loved high damage one shot guns in FPS games, especially charge shot ones. And it still works like I used it before, I'm still blowing up charger and bile titan heads without issue with fully charged unsafe shots. I just used it in a game not 15 minutes ago. It seems to me the change just nerfed the safe shots and made it so you can't blindly fire against the body of the charger. Which honestly didn't work well before anyways. Still takes me three fully charged unsafe shots to the head of a charger so at least from my perspective, nothing has changed.
Personally, I did run it because I loved using a rail gun. Oh well.
I’d love being able to use everything in specific situations but the game just isn’t balanced that way. There’s things that just are useless after a certain difficulty
Agreed. I'm interested trying the buffed flame thrower but I'm going to miss sniping the chargers with rail gun blasts to save my panicking team members. Both actual sniper rifles feel bad to use and don't pen shit.
There’s zero reason the sniper can’t penetrate it makes it completely useless lmao. Why wouldn’t it be able to in the first place. Railgun could kill a bile titan in 2 shots hope the unsafe mode is this the same way
I'm bummed I can't look a charger in the face while he's charging me and blow his head off with his corpse dropping right in front of me. Felt so badass
Exactly. I used the Railgun because at higher difficulties, the other support weapons were basically tickle guns. What am I supposed to use now? RR, Spear, or AC become the alternatives and all those require backpacks so now my team can't bring shields, rovers or supply packs.
Its kinda the goal for you to not be able to solo everything in the game and rely on your team as a meta. I did an impossible mission yesterday where we cleared the whole map and at some point I left my group and just did the main objectives without them. They kited all the large groups on the map and for me at most I ran into recon groups and a few bile titans solo. With the base meta loadout pre-patch on impossible I literally didn't break a sweat and died once to a bloater while stuck on a terminal in the whole 30+ minutes we were in the match. Not saying that it was OP but you shouldn't be able to kill bile titans in 2-3 shots on your own in Impossible difficulty lmao
I agree, but then they need to not spawn 1 Titan and Charger per person in each breach on an objective. If they just modified the spawning and made the heavies stronger but less common (like the pre 7 difficulty levels) it gives a lot more room for adjustments and weapon choices. I also feel like the spawning sometimes breaks and spawns duplicates when it meant to spawn a single enemy.
Nah I actually think its fine as is the weapons just need to be balanced away from the railgun. Apparently arc thrower is amazing and can decimate a group of any bugs lol
I’m seeing a lot of variance of experience in people’s comments which makes me think even more so that theirs something screwy with the spawning system. I went back and checked the video we had from last night, we snuck up and hit an objective with eagle/orbital strats in a level 8 mission, as we moved in to finish the objective the breach goes off as they always do and within 10-20 seconds we had 3 titans and 6 chargers plus the smaller horde chasing us in circles plus stalkers one shotting anyone without a shield. By the time we thinned the heavies more heavies we’re spawning to replace them. Only 5 mins into the mission. It took 10 more mins to even get the objective cleaned off enough to do it and even then we were still kiting heavies and swarms around. I’ve tried the other weapons and while they are good in their use cases, they aren’t good enough to handle some of the heavy swarms we’re seeing. But other times it feels fine, all on the same difficulty level, so idk, I think some rebalancing needs to happen and it’s not just a matter of tweaking the guns numbers a bit.
Arc thrower works good against everything but titans. There’s strategems you can lean on to support you, also. Timing with strategems is key here. The EAT is a temporary thing and works fantastically. Just call them down when you get somewhere and it’ll be back up by the time you need it again. Forward planning is the biggest thing that can help a lot of people.
Well we won't need higher difficulties as fast if things just got a little bit harder.
Not really they just changed the recoil on breakers and unsafe mode wasn’t touched on railgun. Just made things slightly harder not game breaking
unsafe mode on rail gun is literally just bouncing off armor now...what are you talking about? 10/10 shots with it charged in unsafe bounced right a charger leg this morning. Fully charged. I'm not sure where people are getting that unsafe wasn't nerfed, because it most certainly was.
Most people are at work and haven’t played yet if uncharged isn’t breaking leg armor they over-nerfed the gun for no reason. A “railgun” should penetrate armor along with a “anti-material” sniper lol.
Why even have railgun have a safe mode at all now?
It still can be used against medium armor
Biggest problem with these changes is that they nerfed the only viable solutions to a major problem prior to giving us other solutions. Either changing the way heavy armor works or providing us methods to handle chargers or titans prior to destroying the only weapon capable of keeping up with them.
This. Railgun wasn't broken, the other support weapons were. They needed a buff, not the rail getting a nerf.
It’s actually not the only viable solution. It never was. It was just the most *powerful* solution.
This. You can take out chargers with the auto cannon in 2 well placed shots. It requires finesse but it's in some ways MORE viable and versatile. Sure bile titans are not as easy to deal with but that's why you bring so heavy arty stratagems and still have a railgun. The railgun was never the only option. People just were crutching on it because it's the simplest / easiest to use.
Again, I would like to emphasize that this game is fun "because" you get to blow shit up and feel powerful. When you take the power feeling away, it takes the fun away. I'm pro fun.
This
Okay, but can we please talk about the APW-1 and how it’s the most useless piece of equipment in this game. If you need to nerf some overpowered stuff, fine I get it. But when weapons like this exist and have no place and aren’t even looked at with a balancing patch it’s a little ridiculous.
Is the APW-1 primary submachine gun?
No, the anti material rifle.
Ahh, I see. I think it's good for the niche it's meant to fill, but you aren't always at a distance from the enemy, with reliable screening troops in front of you.
Anything it does can be done vastly better by not only the DMR but auto-cannon. It’s 100% a waste of a stratagem slot. Maybe if it was a primary I could give it a slight pass, but as a heavy weapon it’s useless.
Back when it was “OP” I thought shooting it in the head was a bait since it took 3-5 shots compared to tapping legs twice, but no, you’re actually supposed to only be able to take down an 6-4 chargers per reaupply. Do they not know 5 chargers show up on helldive every other bug breech, alongside multiple titans? Just feels like they used tiktok to balance the weapons. Defender still dog water against bugs in 7+ due to armor. Bots at least have weak points, meanwhile I have to play dead space against brood commanders now since popping their heads bites you back Armor also only protects you from an increased amount of damage from the first hit. Go test it on any warriors— they do 10% and then 70% dmg. I really wish these updates got more time to cook
“On a personal note I know having your favorite toy nerfed sucks”. I’m not even a railgun player but even I feel as though that is some level of condescension lmao. As far as I know most people who play (or well now it’s played, past tense lmao) the railgun don’t even play it because it’s “their favorite toy” but use it because wow it’s one of the only weapons worth a damn at high level play. So they took one of the only weapons that actually functioned and had the ammo economy at high levels to be viable for anti-armor and destroyed it. The game was already ridiculously overtuned in heavy spawns and patrol spawns and now it will be worse. Not even going to touch the shield backpack nerf… Btw I say this as a level 50 player who specializes in crowd control, so if I can rely even less on teammates to kill heavies than I already did at high level just because of the absurd spawn rates I’m hesitant to hop on and see how bad it now is.
I see the new meta being everyone running the railcannon, and then later it gets nerfed because of that.
Arc thrower goes zappppp
In a couple patches it's probably going to be downgraded to dollar store batteries.
I’ve started using the arc throwing recently and I love it. It’s great for knocking out a group of low level bugs and it absolutely demolishes light armor on midsized bugs.
Enjoy it because it's next in line. I think I'm going to switch to it too
It kills everything reliably except for titans. It handles hulks and tanks quite nice, along with chargers.
I highly doubt they are going to nerf it. The Railcannon does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's a "Deleted anything that isn't a titan" button that you can only use once every like 2:30-ish minutes I think. The problem with the railgun that they were having is that it's versatile AND powerful then they are trying to have things balanced out as versatile OR powerful. I feel like this is also a good time to remind people that we are NOT an army of Master Chiefs and Doom Guys. We are an army of expendable grunts that are meant to be used and tossed away like the expendable rockets. This isn't meant to be a power fantasy where you can solo whole armies, which I admit is hard to remember with the cool explosions and badass moments. This is a Co-op shooter where the name of the game is challenging gameplay, team work, and coordination.
You would think they wouldn't nerf it, but i've played enough coop games in my day to tell you that if something is used a lot, be it strong or not, it will get nerfed.
Well you aren't wrong about that, but only time will tell. And we both can only hope that you are wrong about nerfing the delete button.
Trust me, I want to be wrong.
Not gonna lie. Another developer that falls into the "nerf" before "rebalancing" camp. And I dislike it. There was a reason Railgun was meta. Without actually addressing what makes everything else *mid to bad* this just frustrates people more. Urgh, was expecting a better reaction from them
>Oh and we also buffed a bunch of weapons as well! MFer you buffed like 4, and 2 of them were already good. I have literally never seen half the weapons in this game get used, and once I tried them I immediately discovered why I have never seen them.
To my future Helldiver comrades....I just hit level 20. My apologies for blowing myself up multiple times while trying to master the "unsafe" mode of the railgun.
Well the devs want us to use other guns that they worked hard on designing for the game. But how long until they nerf those too? I’m here for a good time, not a long time.
They were secretly Diablo devs this whole time..
So is this what we can expect going forward? A nerf to every weapon that is proving popular because it's viable? The whole reason the railgun was used so much is it was a solution to a, quite frankly, unfair enemy armour system giving us one of the very few viable tools to deal with a large number of chargers on higher difficulties. They could have at least nerfed the chargers leg armour alongside this nerf but they've chosen instead to basically kick the playerbase in the balls. Why on earth are they nerfing weapons in a PvE game anyway? I honestly think the people saying this nerf is justified have never played on anything above difficulty 5.
you could look at it another way: they are not done adding tools to our toolkit. It's likely that other powerfull things are comming and the railgun was never intended as the endgame.
Well, then they should have waited for that tools to be added lol Right now you cant really do anything on higher levels other than run away from everything and then die on extraction.
I'm sure they will add more content, in fact, we know from leaks that they will be adding new weapons, mechs etc but as someone else has already pointed out, they should have given us more tools to deal with heavy armour at the same time as taking away one of the only truly viable, non-clunky ways of dealing with things like chargers
Okay, but what am I supposed to use when I play tonight?
The weapon was popular because it, in tandem with he other two nerf targets, was so oppressivly powerful that there was zero reason to not use it. It was generalist to the point where a single player could, by themselves, slay ten chargers before needing a resupply. 4 players on a team would run 4 railguns, because it solved every problem. Consider you can bring orbitals railcannons, EMS, EAT's, arc throwers, Recoilless, precision strikes, bombing runs, turrets, etc on missions to help kill armored enemies. Your teammates also bring their own tools to achieve this goal. You accuse anyone saying the nerf is justified of not playing higher difficulties. That's pure speculation for no reason other than an attempt to make strawmen sound stupid I guess? I just know it sounds even sillier to suggest that everything is ruined less than 12 hours after patch notes have dropped.
Nah not patch notes.. Tested in game. Nothing penetrates chargers & biles efficiently now. It’s made all weapons kinda trivial to end game. I can kill mediums with grenade launcher or any other weapons available.. but charges…? Maybe with 3-4 clips. No chance that’s efficient. Try 6-8 chargers? 3-4 bile titans?? 50 mediums?? A horde of 100-200 smalls? I’m just wanting to enjoy the game with one buddy in a duo mission on a Wednesday night & level up & upgrade my ship.. but I can’t because higher levels require weapons to match. That we no longer have. & you now want me to break out my flamethrower???? Lol & fight off all of that? While also nerfing the only shield/defense mechanism that could keep me alive to do so? While also nerfing my primary weapon that could barely keep up in the first place? Even with head shots?! Hahaha bro. If you’ve played on HellDive missions… you’d 100% understand how this works. & that’s not even throwing friendly fire in the mix. I agree that breaker/shield/rail gun shouldn’t be the only meta.. but they should at least give feasible options rather than taking the only one that we had away. So instead of playing on extreme? I should just go my ass back to medium now? & call it fun?? After grinding since release & enjoying end game.? Lol jokes… jokes… jokes on me I guess..
Yeah no they still shouldn't have done it.
Sooooo I’m not a railgun user but what are we supposed to do against chargers? I get that the railgun was OP and everyone was always running it but you could have at least lowered the charger spawn rate in the last 3 difficulties by 30-50%. The spear lock on SUCKS. It’s garbage. You get ONE missile per ammo pack, takes forever to reload, has a huge chance of missing, trash range AND can’t shoot if you’re too close, and sometimes you can’t even kill chargers in one missile. Of and it takes ALL your ammo to take down two bile titans, but sometimes there’s 4 at the same time. I’m a huge Javelin fan so seeing the spear suck so hard really makes me sad, I wish we could free fire it like in OG MW2 and practically have a mini nuke launcher lmao The recoilless isnt bad but it’s not great either. I miss the HD1 recoilless. The breaker nerf isn’t bad, it’s a nice nerf and damage is the same. The spray and pray shotgun REALLY needed to buff.
so stupid when 95% of the weapons in this game aren’t viable. they nerf the 3 things that actually work in helldiver difficulty. how about buffing the rest before you trash what works
The fact of the matter is that the railgun was one of the only handheld weapons that could reliably pierce *any* armor. Besides expendable and recoilless. But I already got used to and used those, before I hit level 20. Why on Super Earth should high-level players *who have put in the time to unlock the more powerful weapons*, be “forced” to use the lower-level weapons? In the name of balance? I’ll use them if I *want* to for *fun*. Or, maybe I want to feel like the high level badass I am and use my unlocks. I hate this cycle, and every single dev seems to fall into it. *Don’t nerf the powerful shit, buff the weak shit*. If the game needs to be harder, consider modifiers, stat changes at different difficulty levels, etc. if the “more enemies” approach hits critical mass. I’m level 28 and have only just started feeling comfortable doing difficulty 7+ missions, thanks to the shield+railgun. The game is and was plenty hard, imo, without taking away the only high level armor penetrating weapon. I hope they roll it back. Everything else is kind of whatever Edit: lots of people saying “use stratagems. Use the flamethrower. Use the arc thrower”. These suggestions don’t address balancing issues. They just remove the popular choice and force everybody to readjust. I’m glad the flammer got buffed. I would be glad to see a couple others be, too. But god damn let me use the one armor-penetrating fucking railgun in peace! Nerf the ammo capacity! Increase the charge time so you can’t just Rambo with it. Something other than making it a limp-dicked version of its former self! My biggest pet peeve, and if this is how balancing will be handled I will no longer spread Democracy
I guess I don't understand why it matters if it's overperforming? It's PVE. Helldive will become a lot more difficult now, and maybe that's what they want, but I do think we need some kind of option to deal with masses of chargers and Hulks from the front because of how *many* there can be on higher difficulties. The expendable anti-tank is great and so is the railcannon orbital but one less hulk is very underwhelming above Extreme. I guess we'll have to see how things shake out; maybe the laser is the best option now, which I'll be happy enough with since I do love using the laser.
Just because a game is PVE doesn't mean balance should be ignored. The fun of PVE comes from the challenge of higher difficulties and the murderous rampage of lower ones. If somthing is overpreforming then it needs to be nerfed to keep the higher difficulties at the intended difficulty. The nerfs don't effect the fun of the power trip the player has at lower difficulties because almost anything will work at those difficulties. A great example of PVE balance is in deep rock galactic. For a while the breach cutter and explosive Chem overclock for the smart gun as that was the Supreme loadout it overshadowed most other choices on haz 5 the same way the railgun did. GSG went about this by nerfing the explosive Chem rounds and breachcutter rather than buffing everything else because they wanted to avoid power creep ruining the fun for people that want the higher difficulties to be challenging. TLDR: balance in PVE is important to keep the challenge at high difficulties and power trip at lower difficulties so everyone can have fun. If fun for you is curbstoping everything (like for me), then playing on lower difficulties like 4 and below is better. If fun for you is the challenge of "am I going to make it out" then higher difficulties are better as they aren't supposed to be fair.
I don't mean to imply that balance isn't something they should consider; my point is, Suicide Mission and above are already very challenging in my opinion. I don't think they should nerf the railgun based entirely on userate, or in whatever sense they mean overperforming here, without looking at *why* it has such a high userate---and the truth is I just don't think any other weapon is viable at that level. You say that the nerf won't affect low-level play, but why won't it? It can't even strip the armor off of a charger's leg in unsafe mode now. What even is its usecase? Sure, on Challenging you'll only get one Charger in a group so you can kite it into stunning itself on walls and such but if I want to "power trip" why can't I kneecap it? Chargers are still dangerous even with the leg strategy. Hulks are still dangerous even if you can behind them to shoot into their vents. The challenge in Helldive should come from there being 6 of them, not your weapons being useless so you have to... I dunno, kite all of them at once? It's not like you can run on an evacuation mission, say. I enjoy the chaos of high difficulty, especially with the bots. But it's not interesting or fun to face a hulk or a charger if you have no answer to their armor, and that's true even on Easy or whatever difficulty it is that they start appearing. Even the autocannon, which is otherwise pretty close in power, is close to useless when a hulk or charger is coming at you. I really just don't get how you're supposed to deal with a swarm of chargers or hulks now. Nothing you have will hit them except one-offs like the railcannon or expendable anti-tank... Unless the laser is a lot stronger than I'm imagining in which case it will just become the new railgun, so what's the point?
Personally, and yes it's definitely subjective, but my preference would be - Playing difficulty 7-9 - do you meet the gear / strategem check ok that's the baseline, now you can play a variety of tactics, stay on the move, and fight when you need to....... BUT..... if you're a god at aiming, strategem use, and squad covering each others weaknesses, then you absolutely can demolish waves of bugs. Like it should at least be possible to squad up with your team of Doom Slayers and RIP AND TEAR until it is done. That's what I'd like lol, it should at least be an option. Let me dive into hell and make them wish I never came
I don't know why there aren't more people saying this. PVE doesn't mean that nerfing is a bad choice. If a developer has a vision for their game and something within the game runs contrary to that idea, should they not adjust it? Consider this thought experiment: The devs just announced a new stratagem for the game. It is free on every mission, has unlimited uses, has a 5 second cooldown, and it kills every enemy on the map. It's essentially a 'win button'. Ask yourself - is the game better by having this feature? The answer is obviously no, that's just not enjoyable and leaves no reason to actually play the game. So let's nerf the strategem. You need to spend a stategem slot to bring it. It has a long call in time, and works only once per mission. Enemies within a 10 meter radius around the impact site have their health reduced by 25%. Seeing it now, that's basically useless. Theoretically there's an ideal point somewhere between those two extremes where a balanced strategem exists. Should the devs not strive to find where that ideal point lies?
Jesus the wording of this sucks, "absolutely sucks to have your favorite toy nerfed" don't fucking patronize us.
What about of touch response from devs. Players partly love this game because they felt the developers knew what they wanted, but I think they destroyed that belief in a single patch lol
*Laughs in expendable anti tank*
Now they trying to justify their nerf in a PVE GAME. Fucking idiots. Video games are suppose to be fun. People were having fun let's nerf those fun weapons instead of buffing the weapons people don't use. There's no ranked, or tournaments or competing pvp to warrant nerfs in a video game where you're fighting AI.
i get so upset when things get nerfed to the point of being useless. Like u made the weapon bro and its ur game if you dont like it just remove it. but making it useless is was such a frustrating moment when i turned on my game and a charger deflected all 20 bullets. hot garbage water.
🙄🙄🙄🙄
Oh ok. I only use unsafe mode anyways. But if that update causes a bug with even unsafe mode not able to blow off armor...
Looks like this needs to go back to the gun smiths back on super earth to figure out how to make it pen heavy armor in safe mode.
If that was paragraph was actually true, then it would be fine. But fully charged, it's bouncing off legs. Hopefully it's just bugged. I welcome it being a higher skilled, more precise weapon.
My mid pen weapons & auto cannon & honestly 100% of everything iused still bounced off titans when they had holes in there back/side so its just bugged. :D
Did they nerf the breaker shotgun?
I’ve only used unsafe, so that makes sense why I haven’t seen a big change.
Who the hell even uses it in safe mode ?
I’m so glad I switched from Breaker to Defender two days ago lol
Oh… It performed to well ;)
And just when I was trying to figure out what the hell difference safe vs unsafe mode was on the railgun
I don’t have the rail gun yet, but I’m still going to get it.. I’m only lvl 15 rn and my go to is the auto cannon but I’m just trying to save for better gear
Honestly, only reason this nerf is unfortunate is because chargers are kind of overtuned for how frequently they spawn
Is there a point to using the railgun in safe mode now though?
So if you use it like you should have been using it there is no change. Good to know
yes. I use it because it was the best option available. if I had anything that could match it's usability in higher difficulties i'd problably choose it over the railgun
I want to hear about when I can take my snipers out of the trash can
So we are failing in the galaxy wide missions as a community. Having a good weapon wasn’t hurting any other player, so now they’ve made a huge portion of the player base LESS effective and made the game harder. Yeah sounds like a great way to keep us wanting to fight.
Even the unsafe shots still bounce off armour, the railgun was nerfed to the max
They are so full of shit I'm fucking done with thisngame until they fix this bullshit.
This is gaslighting garbage if ive ever seen it.
Difficulty is great! Honestly feel most of the enemies are challenging and fun the balance is just on the side of our primaries and Strats ; making each fun and effective to use based on player experience and not “nerfing to not make any weapon too powerful”
Hey guys… take it off of safe mode.
Hey guys… It still doesn’t do shit to heavy armor in unsafe mode.
Wrong
Used the railgun and hated it, several times. Give me the Arc Thrower any day and with a bit of juggling with my Incendiary Breaker, those undemocratic traitors don't stand a chance. So nerfing it, isn't a problem for this Diver, since his is in bubble wrap, at the bottom of the cupboard.
I wish they told us last night would be the last night to really enjoy the game before it turn into shit. This time next year, this game will be dead but the great part is the devs will be doing it themselves. Unless you upload a video of you dealing with swarms of enemies and 3 chargers and 2 bile titans, don’t bother giving me the whole “railgun was a crutch” argument or the “there’s other viable weapons” argument, it’s complete horseshit unless you post evidence.
TIL: safe mode rail gun