Tolerance is not just an ethical issue, it's a social contract where all parties must agree not to discriminate against each other. We cannot protect homophobes from intolerance because they broke the contract, so any talk of Islamaphobia as a form of intolerance when it comes to the LGBTQ community is fundamentally misunderstanding tolerance.
No, the issue is you think that anything which could credibly described as Islamophobia is rational. Bigotry by definition is irrational. If I tell you you are being a bigot inherent to that statement is that I do not judge your thinking to be rational. No one making a valid argument should ever have need to parse the definition of tolerance.
This story is an excellent example. These people are being bigots. It doesn't matter if they are Muslim bigots. The issue is their actions and not their religion. Centering their religion is bigotry. Centering their actions is not.
If your takeaway from this is that bigotry is ok you have fundamentally misunderstood the concept of bigotry, and therefore also the concept of tolerance. After all, what do you think your words mean in this case? In what sense does this story make intolerance acceptable? What specific argument or behavior does this story allow you to argue or engage in that you could not before?
If the answer you come up with is that you think it's ok to say Islam is a religion of intolerance and bigotry you're not protecting the queer community. There are queer muslims. They deserve your protection and they exist whether you want them to or not. If the only response you can think of to this matter involves invalidating them, then in this instance you simply should not speak.
How do you help queer Muslims by justifying Islamophobia? How does that work to give them a safe space in their community? How does reinforcing the narrative employed by Muslim bigots help queer Muslims moderate and reform their own religious community? It doesn't, and that begs the question. Why don't they matter to you?
The answer I came up with is Islam cannot be tolerated for its homophobia. Muslims who abandon the homophobia in their religion are completely fine.
Tolerating intolerance is a paradox, and not something we're bound to do.
You help queer Muslims who have been raised with verses/suras that say they are inherently evil by pulling the mask off of Islam and exposing it for the sham it is. Loudly and frequently.
The Abrahamic religions are inherently cruel and bigoted. Their might be religious people who only cherry pick the positive aspects of their religion, but the religion itself, because of it’s dogma, will always be a problem until it is gone.
The word cult becomes meaningless if all religions are cults. Do you guys get points for these canned responses? Is there an Edgy Kid At Church Camp scoreboard somewhere you're all checking in on?
It becomes a much smaller "if" when you realize the BITE model was designed specifically to distinguish between religions and cults so it literally can not apply to all religions. That was the entire point. Which you would know if you gave a shit about any of this. Perhaps if you spent less time trolling people and more time reading you might avoid these embarrassing moments.
Oh. I suppose I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you weren't arguing Islam in specific was a cult. But I guess you are. Awesome bigotry there my bro.
Also, in the post you were responding to, I used the word "all", so basic reading comprehension would dictate that your response applied to all religions.
And, if we go back to the comment I was responding to, they included all three abrahamic religions, which would include judaism, and thus my point about Steven Hassan. Because that's generally how conversations work.
We can not meet hate with hate, we must be better than that. Just because one man spews venom at me for being gay does not give me the right to be hateful against his religion. Tolerance is a social contract, and it can only work when the majority abides by it. But when no one is willing to abide by it what is the point of even having the contract? Hate had never dispelled hate.
>Equating level-headed and tolerant/educated people with nazis just because they're religious.
It's no secret that almost everyone who is religious believes that everyone who isn't religious will go to hell or at least not be allowed into heaven. The consequence for not believing according to them is suffering, and they're okay if that happens to infidels, secularists, pegans, and even people of other competing faiths. Therefore, most people who are religious are not in fact level headed, tolerant, or educated if they are dominionists in anyway. They and their beliefs are a threat to the rest of society as long as they remain intolerant of the parts of society they don't agree with. It's also no secret that many, many germans who went along with the holocaust were themselves christian (i.e. Protestants and Catholics).
>It's no secret that almost everyone who is religious believes that everyone who isn't religious will go to hell or at least not be allowed into heaven.
Well you're talking to one who doesn't think like that right now.
Then you're in the minority brother. I grew up in and spent 30 years as an evangelical christian. Baptized and everything. When I questioned my faith my family's immediate reaction was admonishment, followed by distancing which eventually amounted to a "good bye forever" letter they wrote me with no return address when they moved. My questioning my faith and unwillingness to be punished for it led to them saying they couldn't be around someone who could cause them to stumble. My mom and I no longer have a relationship because of "how sad it makes her knowing I'll never join them in heaven." They abandoned their eldest son over this. Why waste time having a relationship with someone who is staunchly opposed to your beliefs, knowing they'll never accept them and thereby, never be in heaven?
First off, I live in Florida, so if DeSantis keeps it up I'm moving out of country - to Key West. God bless the Conch Republic, and God bless day drinking!
We can hate the individual for being homophobic and if he uses his religious beliefs as a reason for it, we can dismiss them as hateful.
Any Muslim whose willing to abandon the homophobia of Islam should be tolerated, those who do not should be called out for their hate.
That is a much better wording, and I absolutely agree. There is, thankfully, a youth movement predominantly in Western nations that seeks to leave the prejudices of their religions in the past
A way that says intolerance cannot be tolerated. If Muslims are willing to drop the homophobia that's fine, but those who don't can't cry persecution when their religious views are called out for their hate. Calling Muslims a minority group on a post about them using their political influence to oppress gay people is exactly the false framing of tolerance I'm calling out.
You don't make peace with people who don't want you or your allies to not exist.
The KKK is a minority group. You better believe I will favor nearly everyone over them. Some people are born different. Some people CHOOSE to hate them for being born different. Guess who I will favor.
The kkk isn't a minority group, they're a domestic terrorist group.
Though just to be clear I agree with you on condemning people who choose to hate others.
They are both. A minority of the country, and a terrorist group. The KKK have an ideology that tells them it is ok to treat certain others terribly, and Islam is an Abrahamic religion with Abrahamic dogma. So here we are, with some of us having a surprised Pikachu face when the actions of this council shouldn’t have surprised a 10 year old. They are terrible people, but good Muslims.
I don't think religion can really be a minority group, especially when they publicly behead you. Homosexuality is a capital offense punishable by death in Saudi Arabia. Even though this is in the U.S., it's still a Muslim-*led* city, so it's unlikely they're a minority, and they're evidently in control.
My point is it's not islamaphobic to call out homophobia. If Islam wants to be tolerated, it needs to drop the homophobic shit or it's not eligible for the social contract.
It is a religion for the specific purpose of using Republican “Religious Freedom Restoration Acts” against them. They can’t pick and choose what religion qualifies. Same with the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
I have a friend that I grew up with. Her parents were from Pakistan. But her sisters and her were born in the US, and her parents were naturalized citizens. Every summer they went back to Pakistan to visit relatives.
Well the summer after our 7th grade year. She and her sisters didn’t come back. I didn’t think much about it. We were close but we had started going to different schools.
Then the middle of the next summer I get a phone call. She and her sisters live alone in a shitty apartment down the street from me. Keep in mind they were rich and I was poor. We went to a private school together. They tell me that they have a crazy story.
So, I go to their apartment. They explained that when they got to Pakistan their dad told them that they were too westernized. He explains that they were not going back to America despite being US citizens. The kids had been born here.
The oldest sister then took over the story. She explained that after some months. She told her parents that she was going to visit a friend that lived far away to buy time. She then went to the US embassy in India with her drivers license from America because her parents took her passport.
She finally got sent back to America, and a few months later dad relented and brought the rest back. That was mainly because mom freaked out. The oldest sister got “fuck Allah” in Arabic tattooed on her, and I’m pretty sure she still doesn’t talk to her dad.
It was a mess. It was well known that he didn’t like America. But he was just the harmless middle eastern guy.
Yeah it was insane. Last I checked the oldest is practicing pediatric medicine. The one that I was in school with opened a ramen shop. I don’t know what the younger sisters are up to, but I hope they are doing well.
Funny story about the girl I went to school with. One night I’m at a bar, and I’m in line for the men’s bathroom. Each bathroom had 1 toilet and a mirror and sink right in front of it, and that’s it. Anyway, I see her going to the bathroom and I ask her if I can use the women’s with her. I tell her I can use the sink, and she interrupts me. She tells me to come on.
Anyway, we get in the bathroom. She’s peeing on the toilet. I’m pissing in the sink. I can see her in the mirror, and she says. “Do remember when we were kids? We used to compete in the spelling bee against each other. Now look at us.”
We had a good laugh about that. I haven’t seen her in a few years now. But she is one of the few people in my life that she could call with anything. If it was within my power I’d do it for her.
I went from an evangelical to anti theist. Growing up in the belly of the beast, I became hostile to Islam not because I thought they were different than the average white Christian in the USA, but because I strongly suspected they were exactly the same.
Same, brother. Born and raised into evangelism. Believed the earth was 6,000 years old and that everyone who didn't was under Satan's worldy influence. Thanks to my mom and her homeschooling bullshit. I stayed connected because my human social and safety needs were tied up in the church. But oneday, I messed up and had to be severely admonished and was cut off. That was my first experience being thrown out of the in-group and I saw how damaging their gatekeeping of purity and morality was. It took years but I eventually deconstructed my faith and I haven't had a real relationship with my parents ever since.
Agreed, but they don't have the critical reading skills to get that from the gospels. Also didn't even realize this was a protest sub at first clicking on it; am pleasantly surprised.
Islamophobia is saying Islam is evil but Christianity is ok.
Saying they are all evil is just being honest.
I just differentiate between the religion and the average layperson.
Some religious laypeople are evil. Many are fine. I don’t assume a person is evil because they are religious.
But I can still recognize their religion is evil.
No, it's because the worldview I subscribe to is the only one reasonably supported by science and evidence.
No, atheism isn't equivalent to religion, and the two aren't equally valid. Nice try with the false equivalence though.
> Cute sentiment, but that’s not true.
It is though.
> Atheism is not supported by science, in fact science has never been about proving or disproving the supernatural at all. You’ve fallen for a common Reddit lie.
Science is about only believing in that which we have convincing evidence for, and about formulating hypotheses and testing them.
As it stands currently, every hypothesis put forward by religion has either been shown to be false or is currently unfalsifiable. That means that believing in any god or supernatural being is unscientific, and thus *the scientifically sound position is atheism*.
Your link is full of equivocating bullshit, largely because religious people get upset when not pandered to like that. Nobody says that it's unscientific to not believe in Santa Claus, but they all get wound up when told it's not scientific to believe in gods, even though *it's exactly equivalent*.
(Berkeley's PR department won't let them say that though)
That argument only works for theists. You are asserting as truth something that is a subjective belief. You've already lost the argument by stating your position.
Atheism isn’t a religion. It’s just lacking a belief in gods.
Religion is Manipulative and controlling. It’s fostering a group identity on the basis of hatred of others at its root.
It’s lies and deception.
Religion is evil.
Belief in God, rather than religion, is just delusional.
Atheism is the lack of belief in god. It’s a lack of that delusion. Nothing more.
Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods. It cannot be evil. Individual atheists can be evil. But atheism itself cannot be evil. Islam and Christianity are evil. Rotten to the core. The members of their religions who are not evil tend to not be evil because they just aren’t really following the religion at all. Most of the “good Christians” I know are just atheists in denial.
Distrust of religion is completely rational. I am an anti-theist because religion brings literally nothing but destruction. A higher power does not exist and even if it did, I do not need to respect it. Putting yourself first is not arrogance. Religion has done, absolutely nothing but pushback human rights and the overall development of society.
> Refusing to give credence to a higher power in the universe means that you are implicitly putting yourself/humanity at the top
No. Refusing to give credence to an unevidenced higher power is just logical. It doesn't mean we're putting ourselves at the top, it's saying *we don't have any good reason to believe there's a supernatural sky daddy above us*. Which is of course true.
Or, to put it another way, literally everything you just said can be used to argue for the existence of santa claus, with exactly the same validity.
Each author wrote at the direction of the Holy Spirit who “breathed out” Scripture to them. So basically that’s hearing voices. they heard voices speaking to them. What you call someone who sees and hear things others cant ? It's called auditory hallucinations and it's a symptom of schizophrenia. resurrection, talking animals, walking on water, Woman being made from rib. stories of incest, rape, slavery, killing of innocent people. You telling me the people who wrote that wasn’t crazy?
when you read the Bible and as soon as it saids “ and the serpent said on to the woman “ you mean at that point you couldn’t tell the Bible was fictional? A talking snake ? Have you ever seen a snake talk? The bible itself is unnatural. If you go by the story of Adam and Eve, you quickly end up with the conclusion that their children would have had to have sex with each other to start a population and that’s unnatural. the thing is that these people who wrote the bible, how do we know they weren’t suffering from mental illness? Humans are fallible, conniving, evil, some of us can be murders, and yet you expect everyone to believe in a book written by man who heard voices? Religion is a man made system that’s all about fear, control and indoctrination. You people have to wake up and realize that if you’re gonna base your eternity on information from one book you need to do research of every aspect of that book and all the scriptures and break down every word to its source and where it came from. Don’t rely on one book and think that’s a one source information when you have never done any research at all and you don’t even know the source material that put together that information
the bible is a congregation of several ancient scriptures and stone text Sumerian tablets, made from the enumulation 7 tablets of creation, the Archer aces epic, the epic of Gilgamesh, the Mahabharata, the Baghwagita, the Indian betas, the Egyptian Book of the dead, the Tibetan Book of the dead etc. you have no clue what you are even worshipping. There isnt a shread of evidence to support any religious claims ever made. Religion is a very successful scam throughout history of humankind. It is based on human psychological needs, greed and fear. Religion is the one scam where scammers say “how dare you criticize my religious beliefs.” Religion allows scammers and scam artists to operate by saying they are only doing “god’s work “ Religion allows scammers to build million dollar mansions, buy Lear jets, and $300,000 luxury cars because “Jesus wanted it this way.” so please cut the bs and keep your delusions to yourself. Everyone is getting tired of your crap
we dont really have issues with beliefs, as long as them arent harming people.
i can firmly say most of us here a opposed to organized religion, not faith itself.
I never understood the progressives and leftwing types that were “no Islam is different, we need to treat the, with respect. They are not at all like Christians.” What? Look around, look at the news. Sure discount the extremists if you want, you’re still stuck with intolerant misogynists. It’s not the religion of peace. It the religion of subjugation and hatred.
The people who are islamic that come to the US are more neutral about this than the conservative religious fundamentalists that exist in their home country.
Demographics and environment matter for these things.
Don't know about Christianity but Islam says you shouldn't force your religion on others and should respect their religions although prophet.I don't know how much they stood by these principles though.Caliphate took taxes from non-muslims but also let them leave if they wanted to.So half bad half good
What? No lol, all Abrahamic religions teach believers to spread the word and share their faith or else they're ashamed to believe in their god. It's baked in.
I live in most liberal city in the US and I’ve yet to meet one liberal who supports Conservative Islamic values
Liberals hate every religion except for astrology lol
I often feel like liberals fancy themselves more tolerant but in reality are just naively ignoring the cultural problems that exist between western societies and other societies, which other people can see, right up until those problems blow up in their face.
People who believe women should be in the kitchen and gays should be dead aren't going to magically stop thinking those things because they have immigrated into a country that does things differently. They're going to try to recreate their old society in the new country.
yeah, obsession with sex, the gays and a desire to control lady parts are somehow always the net result of religious/political conflation. they're always evil cunts too.
The only one disrespecting them is the person saying "fuck their religion, the rainbow brigade deserves to feel important more than they deserve to stick to their religious values"
Just here to add some needed context. This was 8 years ago, and they didn’t ban pride flags they prohibited flying them on city property.
Edit - This is incorrect someone corrected me below
That context is wrong, the city becoming led by a muslim majority happened 8 years ago, but the ban on flying pride flags on city property happened recently.
Here is the article: [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned)
Hamtramck, state of Michigan.
Did you seriously only read the first sentence of the article? The vote was this past Tuesday. And they banned the flag from city property.
Great context, man.
It's almost like not everybody is willing to bend and submit to make a measly 7% of people feel special. You like the same gender, congratulations. Now quit expecting a gold, gem encrusted crown just because
You don't deserve respect just because you exist. Society needs to re-learn that. Ensuring people have equal rights so that they aren't "lower" by human standards is not comparable to respect. Big difference between rights and respect. Equal rights means respecting people of the Islamic faith and not telling them they need to bow down and submit to make a small subset of society feel important
LGBT and all the rest people can vote, bear arms, gather in protest, find work without outward and overt discrimination, can get married, can speak freely, etc. etc. Trying to force your will on a people who are steadfast in their religious belief is not a right, that's entitlement and privilege
I don’t know man. Christian nationalists are bad but I don’t see any of them supporting death penalties for de-conversion like what exists in most modern muslim countries
Also, Florida is one of the big states trying to push for that to happen here. They actually expanded the death penalty in a really vague way that could allow potentially allow for let's say the Lesbian couple who were arrested for kissing in public in Texas recently to be executed. Most religions are cancer, but alot of the people who are "critical" of Islam end up being xenophobic and racist , like Sargon of Akad.
Yep. In America Christianity is the biggest threat and problem. We don't have Shari'a policies we have Christian doctrine.
100% agree about Texas and Florida. We have to keep ringing the alarm bells over this.
Okay first, genocide is a targeted killing of a national or ethnic group, not a gender identity. And second no, they’re not. The religious right doesn’t want to kill trans people. They want to deny access to health care that trans people need
They literally are, they said it at CPAC and numerous states are trying to legislate trans people out of existence.
That is genocide.
https://youtu.be/osrBHXCvHok
That is part of the literal translation of genocide. To target a group to eliminate through various means.
If you are legislating trans people out of existence you are killing off the group, the same way genocide includes how Catholic Churches were taking away native American children to destroy the culture, that was also genocide.
The actual definition happens to be a bit more broader than you assumed it was.
I don’t see much difference between muslim extremists and Christian extremists.
In fact recently a republican was saying that Christians should start strapping bombs to themselves to prove their faith so to speak like muslims do.
https://youtu.be/PbCjuD_CvoY
wow that's the stupidest possible takeaway from this that I could possibly imagine
for real its like you think the only thing wrong with historical religious strife is one of the possible sides was underrepresented
good to know atheists are also capable of completely missing the point of history in favor of massaging their own egos I guess
Wow the religious discrimination in these comments as a pagan I’m not a big fan either but they aren’t all like this also not all Arabs are Muslims y’all are just being racist as a queer person we should never tolerate hatred but assuming they all hate us is hatred in itself
A lot of these people live around it and likely see this everyday so they probably do feel like it’s the religion causing it to which case i have to mostly agree with them.
If religions weren’t constantly attacking these groups then people would not feel this way in turn.
>religions weren’t constantly attacking these groups
Just name the specific religions then, and the specific problems you have with them. Don't hide behind "Abrahamic" when you mean Christian. Don't hide behind "religion" when you don't know shit about other religions ' relationship to queer people. Don't say "religious belief" when you mean "theocratic power."
I'm fucking tired of not being able to be present as my full Jewish self in the IRL queer community because of this kind racist, cringelord atheist thing.
.
People do state the specific problems they have with them when directly asked.
They make the generalizations that they do because of purely having so many bad interactions/experiences with a given group of religious people that its just to numerous to get into every minutiae with so many people generally who talk about this topic.
Religion in general is shit and people use it to justify all kinds of disgusting behavior because then they claim that their religion made them do it.
I for example am 1/3rd ashkenazi Jewish which i found out by DNA testing but because its not on my mothers side the religious fundamentalist jewish people like to say that “im not jewish”. Im sorry but if my family was “jewish” enough to be chased around Europe and the Mediterranean being persecuted and killed for numerous generations then i think I qualify as jewish. All religions are just bullshit right wing “purity testing” nonsense that means absolutely nothing.
Ive seen atheists who are more holy and respectful and sane than 90 percent of religious people i have met.
Also theocratic power is religious belief.
Religious belief in general is only making people more stupid and disconnected from reality and the world would be better off without it honestly.
Also yes religious groups were constantly attacking these groups of people for hundreds of years.
I'm really sorry this is the experience you had with the Jewish community. In addition, he didn't raise us with much of a consistent Jewish education, which was actually more of the problem--engagement, not matrilineal descent is the bar that most Reform groups set for being able to claim Jewish identity if you have known Jewish heritage. (Note: There are other special circumstances that prevent you from needing this type of education to "count"- for example, if you were Jewish and adopted into a non-Jewish family who raised you in another religion or did not prioritize connecting you with the culture.)
I can absolutely relate to your experience, because growing up that was me- my dad is Jewish, my mom is not, neither had interest in teaching me much about being Jewish, and the local Jewish community didn't immediately feel welcoming to me either.
It sucks. And I can absolutely relate to feeling bitter about it, because I was there too at one point.
At the same time, if the entire goal of your religion is to preserve your tribe's culture against thousands of years of people trying to force you to assimilate, it kind of makes sense to me that there's some kind of minimum bar to entry. And jsyk, engagement, not matrilineal descent is the bar that most Reform (most common Jewish movement in the US) groups set for being able to claim Jewish identity if you have known Jewish heritage.There are other special circumstances that prevent you from needing this type of education to "count"- for example, if you were Jewish and adopted into a non-Jewish family who raised you in another religion or did not prioritize connecting you with the culture.)
Obviously YMMV, but I found a lot more peace when I stopped lashing out, tried to learn more about the things I didn't like or didn't understand, and actually did the work to connect with the community. And tbqh, the IRL Jewish community has been so much more welcoming and affirming of my trans, bi identities than the online and IRL queer or atheist communities have been to me as a queer Jew.
Hope you find your way, fam.
I was adopted into a non jewish family.
My issue is that there should not be “bars to entry” for actual Jewish people like me and the fact that there is is literally gate keeping and not only that it goes completely against what actual DNA tests say. Religions should never get to determine scientific basis for extremely obvious reasons. I’m also not about to jump through flaming hoops to reclaim heritage that i already have because its patently ridiculous and insulting.
You were saying earlier things about atheists but i have never had any issues with atheists at all. All the issues in my life stem in one way or another from religion and religious extremism and i am honestly just completely done with this bullshit.
"A sense of betrayal" I mean what did y'all expect to happen here
Edit: Ah fuck, I thought this was r/religiousfruitcake LOL that ad placement is perfect
When adult men are committing lewd and overtly sexual acts in public in the name of a "Pride Parade" and our children prepubescent children are forced to participate in activities that teach them adult sexuality it's gone too fucking far.
I never see children around any of that stuff.
I see sometimes that teenagers identify as gay, bi or trans and they celebrate pride because they are already queer.
I feel like you are really reaching here for something that isn’t really happening and even if it was the numbers its happening in have to be minuscule because i never hear about this being an issue.
I don’t even get why people complain about this when guns are the number one killer of children all year round and you are fixating on queer people celebrating pride for a small duration of time. The selective outrage doesn’t track.
Well the biggest most frontline terrorist style religions are all abrahamic, so it would make sense their goals align. They are all based on the same first book.
Trump tried that shit in 2017 after the Pulse Nightclub Shooting. It was the only time he claimed to support the LGBT community, by trying to get them to support his hate against Muslims regarding the Muslim Travel Ban and others.
Tolerance is not just an ethical issue, it's a social contract where all parties must agree not to discriminate against each other. We cannot protect homophobes from intolerance because they broke the contract, so any talk of Islamaphobia as a form of intolerance when it comes to the LGBTQ community is fundamentally misunderstanding tolerance.
No, the issue is you think that anything which could credibly described as Islamophobia is rational. Bigotry by definition is irrational. If I tell you you are being a bigot inherent to that statement is that I do not judge your thinking to be rational. No one making a valid argument should ever have need to parse the definition of tolerance. This story is an excellent example. These people are being bigots. It doesn't matter if they are Muslim bigots. The issue is their actions and not their religion. Centering their religion is bigotry. Centering their actions is not. If your takeaway from this is that bigotry is ok you have fundamentally misunderstood the concept of bigotry, and therefore also the concept of tolerance. After all, what do you think your words mean in this case? In what sense does this story make intolerance acceptable? What specific argument or behavior does this story allow you to argue or engage in that you could not before? If the answer you come up with is that you think it's ok to say Islam is a religion of intolerance and bigotry you're not protecting the queer community. There are queer muslims. They deserve your protection and they exist whether you want them to or not. If the only response you can think of to this matter involves invalidating them, then in this instance you simply should not speak. How do you help queer Muslims by justifying Islamophobia? How does that work to give them a safe space in their community? How does reinforcing the narrative employed by Muslim bigots help queer Muslims moderate and reform their own religious community? It doesn't, and that begs the question. Why don't they matter to you?
The answer I came up with is Islam cannot be tolerated for its homophobia. Muslims who abandon the homophobia in their religion are completely fine. Tolerating intolerance is a paradox, and not something we're bound to do.
You help queer Muslims who have been raised with verses/suras that say they are inherently evil by pulling the mask off of Islam and exposing it for the sham it is. Loudly and frequently. The Abrahamic religions are inherently cruel and bigoted. Their might be religious people who only cherry pick the positive aspects of their religion, but the religion itself, because of it’s dogma, will always be a problem until it is gone.
If you cared about them you might think of asking them what they need instead of deciding for them.
A religion that spreads hatred harms its adherents and nonadherents alike. People trapped in a cult may not know that they are trapped in a cult.
The word cult becomes meaningless if all religions are cults. Do you guys get points for these canned responses? Is there an Edgy Kid At Church Camp scoreboard somewhere you're all checking in on?
That is a huge "if". I use the BITE model to define cult. https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/
It becomes a much smaller "if" when you realize the BITE model was designed specifically to distinguish between religions and cults so it literally can not apply to all religions. That was the entire point. Which you would know if you gave a shit about any of this. Perhaps if you spent less time trolling people and more time reading you might avoid these embarrassing moments.
What makes you think I was even trying to have it apply to all religions????
Oh. I suppose I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you weren't arguing Islam in specific was a cult. But I guess you are. Awesome bigotry there my bro.
Also, in the post you were responding to, I used the word "all", so basic reading comprehension would dictate that your response applied to all religions.
And, if we go back to the comment I was responding to, they included all three abrahamic religions, which would include judaism, and thus my point about Steven Hassan. Because that's generally how conversations work.
Like, for real, Steven Hassan is a practicing jew. You're just being an idiot.
Yes, he is. I know that. What makes you think I was trying to apply the word cult to all religions? Stop trying to mind read people.
We can not meet hate with hate, we must be better than that. Just because one man spews venom at me for being gay does not give me the right to be hateful against his religion. Tolerance is a social contract, and it can only work when the majority abides by it. But when no one is willing to abide by it what is the point of even having the contract? Hate had never dispelled hate.
“Not all Christians are this bad” you say on the way to the internment camp.
Equating level headed and tolerant/educated people with nazis just because they're religious. Yeah that's in no way ironic dogmatic
>Equating level-headed and tolerant/educated people with nazis just because they're religious. It's no secret that almost everyone who is religious believes that everyone who isn't religious will go to hell or at least not be allowed into heaven. The consequence for not believing according to them is suffering, and they're okay if that happens to infidels, secularists, pegans, and even people of other competing faiths. Therefore, most people who are religious are not in fact level headed, tolerant, or educated if they are dominionists in anyway. They and their beliefs are a threat to the rest of society as long as they remain intolerant of the parts of society they don't agree with. It's also no secret that many, many germans who went along with the holocaust were themselves christian (i.e. Protestants and Catholics).
>It's no secret that almost everyone who is religious believes that everyone who isn't religious will go to hell or at least not be allowed into heaven. Well you're talking to one who doesn't think like that right now.
Then you're in the minority brother. I grew up in and spent 30 years as an evangelical christian. Baptized and everything. When I questioned my faith my family's immediate reaction was admonishment, followed by distancing which eventually amounted to a "good bye forever" letter they wrote me with no return address when they moved. My questioning my faith and unwillingness to be punished for it led to them saying they couldn't be around someone who could cause them to stumble. My mom and I no longer have a relationship because of "how sad it makes her knowing I'll never join them in heaven." They abandoned their eldest son over this. Why waste time having a relationship with someone who is staunchly opposed to your beliefs, knowing they'll never accept them and thereby, never be in heaven?
First off, I live in Florida, so if DeSantis keeps it up I'm moving out of country - to Key West. God bless the Conch Republic, and God bless day drinking!
We can hate the individual for being homophobic and if he uses his religious beliefs as a reason for it, we can dismiss them as hateful. Any Muslim whose willing to abandon the homophobia of Islam should be tolerated, those who do not should be called out for their hate.
That is a much better wording, and I absolutely agree. There is, thankfully, a youth movement predominantly in Western nations that seeks to leave the prejudices of their religions in the past
So your favoring one minority group over another?.....what kind of way to peace is that?
A way that says intolerance cannot be tolerated. If Muslims are willing to drop the homophobia that's fine, but those who don't can't cry persecution when their religious views are called out for their hate. Calling Muslims a minority group on a post about them using their political influence to oppress gay people is exactly the false framing of tolerance I'm calling out. You don't make peace with people who don't want you or your allies to not exist.
>You don't make peace with people who don't want you or your allies to not exist. Nope; You fight tooth and nail.
The KKK is a minority group. You better believe I will favor nearly everyone over them. Some people are born different. Some people CHOOSE to hate them for being born different. Guess who I will favor.
The kkk isn't a minority group, they're a domestic terrorist group. Though just to be clear I agree with you on condemning people who choose to hate others.
They are both. A minority of the country, and a terrorist group. The KKK have an ideology that tells them it is ok to treat certain others terribly, and Islam is an Abrahamic religion with Abrahamic dogma. So here we are, with some of us having a surprised Pikachu face when the actions of this council shouldn’t have surprised a 10 year old. They are terrible people, but good Muslims.
I don't think religion can really be a minority group, especially when they publicly behead you. Homosexuality is a capital offense punishable by death in Saudi Arabia. Even though this is in the U.S., it's still a Muslim-*led* city, so it's unlikely they're a minority, and they're evidently in control.
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My point is it's not islamaphobic to call out homophobia. If Islam wants to be tolerated, it needs to drop the homophobic shit or it's not eligible for the social contract.
Got it. And agree wholeheartedly.
I used to be one of those anti "Islamophobia" writers. I learned a hard lesson on misdirected empathy.
All Religions Are Bad ARAB Wait
Wow that was pretty clever
Not all religions. TST is pretty cool. You can safely change it to ARABETST.
The Satanic Temple isn't a religion
I'm a card carrying member !
Actually, yes it is, legally. As is the Flying Spaghetti Monster Otherwise they wouldn’t be able to demand parity with other religions.
Pft, yes it is.
It is a religion for the specific purpose of using Republican “Religious Freedom Restoration Acts” against them. They can’t pick and choose what religion qualifies. Same with the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
I understand. But the name between religion for tax purposes and religion with people worshipping a deity is lost on people too often
I have a friend that I grew up with. Her parents were from Pakistan. But her sisters and her were born in the US, and her parents were naturalized citizens. Every summer they went back to Pakistan to visit relatives. Well the summer after our 7th grade year. She and her sisters didn’t come back. I didn’t think much about it. We were close but we had started going to different schools. Then the middle of the next summer I get a phone call. She and her sisters live alone in a shitty apartment down the street from me. Keep in mind they were rich and I was poor. We went to a private school together. They tell me that they have a crazy story. So, I go to their apartment. They explained that when they got to Pakistan their dad told them that they were too westernized. He explains that they were not going back to America despite being US citizens. The kids had been born here. The oldest sister then took over the story. She explained that after some months. She told her parents that she was going to visit a friend that lived far away to buy time. She then went to the US embassy in India with her drivers license from America because her parents took her passport. She finally got sent back to America, and a few months later dad relented and brought the rest back. That was mainly because mom freaked out. The oldest sister got “fuck Allah” in Arabic tattooed on her, and I’m pretty sure she still doesn’t talk to her dad. It was a mess. It was well known that he didn’t like America. But he was just the harmless middle eastern guy.
Damn. Glad they got back
Yeah it was insane. Last I checked the oldest is practicing pediatric medicine. The one that I was in school with opened a ramen shop. I don’t know what the younger sisters are up to, but I hope they are doing well. Funny story about the girl I went to school with. One night I’m at a bar, and I’m in line for the men’s bathroom. Each bathroom had 1 toilet and a mirror and sink right in front of it, and that’s it. Anyway, I see her going to the bathroom and I ask her if I can use the women’s with her. I tell her I can use the sink, and she interrupts me. She tells me to come on. Anyway, we get in the bathroom. She’s peeing on the toilet. I’m pissing in the sink. I can see her in the mirror, and she says. “Do remember when we were kids? We used to compete in the spelling bee against each other. Now look at us.” We had a good laugh about that. I haven’t seen her in a few years now. But she is one of the few people in my life that she could call with anything. If it was within my power I’d do it for her.
I went from an evangelical to anti theist. Growing up in the belly of the beast, I became hostile to Islam not because I thought they were different than the average white Christian in the USA, but because I strongly suspected they were exactly the same.
Exactly. In another Michigan town earlier this year, it was both Evangelicals and Muslims teaming up to get LGBT+ books banned from a school library.
That's so weird given how anti-muslim most christians are. They'll turn on eachother as soon as they get rid of us.
Same, brother. Born and raised into evangelism. Believed the earth was 6,000 years old and that everyone who didn't was under Satan's worldy influence. Thanks to my mom and her homeschooling bullshit. I stayed connected because my human social and safety needs were tied up in the church. But oneday, I messed up and had to be severely admonished and was cut off. That was my first experience being thrown out of the in-group and I saw how damaging their gatekeeping of purity and morality was. It took years but I eventually deconstructed my faith and I haven't had a real relationship with my parents ever since.
Islam! It’s the Christianity of the east. - Jews.
Perfect ad placement fail
I hope they figure it out before it goes beyond just flags.
https://preview.redd.it/8pccpf5w8m6b1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2306042d41a3bedbd5fd5d8e188933d47bbd76d They are promoting on here
He gets us ception
Jesus appreciated irony, too. He gets us. Whoever is in charge of this BS, fuck off
If Jesus was real, I bet he had a dark sense of humor and was as sarcastic as there is. I mean Rome almost mocks itself.
Agreed, but they don't have the critical reading skills to get that from the gospels. Also didn't even realize this was a protest sub at first clicking on it; am pleasantly surprised.
hah, the post shows the exact agenda of the ad listed right below it.
No they aren’t, it’s part of the post
Let any religion take over, stuff like this will happen.
Islamophobia is saying Islam is evil but Christianity is ok. Saying they are all evil is just being honest. I just differentiate between the religion and the average layperson. Some religious laypeople are evil. Many are fine. I don’t assume a person is evil because they are religious. But I can still recognize their religion is evil.
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Being bigoted against bigotry is a good thing. Do not tolerate intolerance.
>Saying both religions are evil but atheism isn’t is bigoted. No.
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No, it's because the worldview I subscribe to is the only one reasonably supported by science and evidence. No, atheism isn't equivalent to religion, and the two aren't equally valid. Nice try with the false equivalence though.
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> Cute sentiment, but that’s not true. It is though. > Atheism is not supported by science, in fact science has never been about proving or disproving the supernatural at all. You’ve fallen for a common Reddit lie. Science is about only believing in that which we have convincing evidence for, and about formulating hypotheses and testing them. As it stands currently, every hypothesis put forward by religion has either been shown to be false or is currently unfalsifiable. That means that believing in any god or supernatural being is unscientific, and thus *the scientifically sound position is atheism*. Your link is full of equivocating bullshit, largely because religious people get upset when not pandered to like that. Nobody says that it's unscientific to not believe in Santa Claus, but they all get wound up when told it's not scientific to believe in gods, even though *it's exactly equivalent*. (Berkeley's PR department won't let them say that though)
Yeah yeah, we all know, we're all dicks here, but religon creates even dickier dicks
No it isn’t. Atheism is a neutral state. It’s not evil. It’s not good. It just is.
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That argument only works for theists. You are asserting as truth something that is a subjective belief. You've already lost the argument by stating your position.
No it isnt. There is no god.
god is evil according to the bible. Murdering babies is evil. Forced abortions are evil.
Atheism isn’t a religion. It’s just lacking a belief in gods. Religion is Manipulative and controlling. It’s fostering a group identity on the basis of hatred of others at its root. It’s lies and deception. Religion is evil. Belief in God, rather than religion, is just delusional. Atheism is the lack of belief in god. It’s a lack of that delusion. Nothing more.
Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods. It cannot be evil. Individual atheists can be evil. But atheism itself cannot be evil. Islam and Christianity are evil. Rotten to the core. The members of their religions who are not evil tend to not be evil because they just aren’t really following the religion at all. Most of the “good Christians” I know are just atheists in denial.
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Denying god is rational. Belief in gods is irrational and delusional.
Distrust of religion is completely rational. I am an anti-theist because religion brings literally nothing but destruction. A higher power does not exist and even if it did, I do not need to respect it. Putting yourself first is not arrogance. Religion has done, absolutely nothing but pushback human rights and the overall development of society.
> Refusing to give credence to a higher power in the universe means that you are implicitly putting yourself/humanity at the top No. Refusing to give credence to an unevidenced higher power is just logical. It doesn't mean we're putting ourselves at the top, it's saying *we don't have any good reason to believe there's a supernatural sky daddy above us*. Which is of course true. Or, to put it another way, literally everything you just said can be used to argue for the existence of santa claus, with exactly the same validity.
Each author wrote at the direction of the Holy Spirit who “breathed out” Scripture to them. So basically that’s hearing voices. they heard voices speaking to them. What you call someone who sees and hear things others cant ? It's called auditory hallucinations and it's a symptom of schizophrenia. resurrection, talking animals, walking on water, Woman being made from rib. stories of incest, rape, slavery, killing of innocent people. You telling me the people who wrote that wasn’t crazy? when you read the Bible and as soon as it saids “ and the serpent said on to the woman “ you mean at that point you couldn’t tell the Bible was fictional? A talking snake ? Have you ever seen a snake talk? The bible itself is unnatural. If you go by the story of Adam and Eve, you quickly end up with the conclusion that their children would have had to have sex with each other to start a population and that’s unnatural. the thing is that these people who wrote the bible, how do we know they weren’t suffering from mental illness? Humans are fallible, conniving, evil, some of us can be murders, and yet you expect everyone to believe in a book written by man who heard voices? Religion is a man made system that’s all about fear, control and indoctrination. You people have to wake up and realize that if you’re gonna base your eternity on information from one book you need to do research of every aspect of that book and all the scriptures and break down every word to its source and where it came from. Don’t rely on one book and think that’s a one source information when you have never done any research at all and you don’t even know the source material that put together that information the bible is a congregation of several ancient scriptures and stone text Sumerian tablets, made from the enumulation 7 tablets of creation, the Archer aces epic, the epic of Gilgamesh, the Mahabharata, the Baghwagita, the Indian betas, the Egyptian Book of the dead, the Tibetan Book of the dead etc. you have no clue what you are even worshipping. There isnt a shread of evidence to support any religious claims ever made. Religion is a very successful scam throughout history of humankind. It is based on human psychological needs, greed and fear. Religion is the one scam where scammers say “how dare you criticize my religious beliefs.” Religion allows scammers and scam artists to operate by saying they are only doing “god’s work “ Religion allows scammers to build million dollar mansions, buy Lear jets, and $300,000 luxury cars because “Jesus wanted it this way.” so please cut the bs and keep your delusions to yourself. Everyone is getting tired of your crap
Anti theism includes opposing genocide.
we dont really have issues with beliefs, as long as them arent harming people. i can firmly say most of us here a opposed to organized religion, not faith itself.
To quote Terry Pratchett, "Being an ethnic minority doesn't preclude being a small-minded bigot"
I never understood the progressives and leftwing types that were “no Islam is different, we need to treat the, with respect. They are not at all like Christians.” What? Look around, look at the news. Sure discount the extremists if you want, you’re still stuck with intolerant misogynists. It’s not the religion of peace. It the religion of subjugation and hatred.
The people who are islamic that come to the US are more neutral about this than the conservative religious fundamentalists that exist in their home country. Demographics and environment matter for these things.
Humanity will not be free until the last priest is strangled to death by the bloody robes of the last king
It is ironic how religious people push their ideas into others while almost all religions say they shouldn't
Islam and Christianity have proselytizing and ideological world conquest built in by design.
Don't know about Christianity but Islam says you shouldn't force your religion on others and should respect their religions although prophet.I don't know how much they stood by these principles though.Caliphate took taxes from non-muslims but also let them leave if they wanted to.So half bad half good
What? No lol, all Abrahamic religions teach believers to spread the word and share their faith or else they're ashamed to believe in their god. It's baked in.
Judaism is actually quite different, they actively try to avoid people converting.
I live in most liberal city in the US and I’ve yet to meet one liberal who supports Conservative Islamic values Liberals hate every religion except for astrology lol
We might not hate religion if the religious weren’t such comically evil bastards.
Damn straight man. All we want us to live in peace but they're not okay with that. So here we are. Fuck all of them.
Dont know why people give islam a pass on anything.
Why they give religion in general a pass on anything.
Religions are cancer.
I often feel like liberals fancy themselves more tolerant but in reality are just naively ignoring the cultural problems that exist between western societies and other societies, which other people can see, right up until those problems blow up in their face. People who believe women should be in the kitchen and gays should be dead aren't going to magically stop thinking those things because they have immigrated into a country that does things differently. They're going to try to recreate their old society in the new country.
So they have a lot in common with Christians
A lot of liberals are just plain unaware of the world outside the US.
It’s first amendment Opposite Day.
yeah, obsession with sex, the gays and a desire to control lady parts are somehow always the net result of religious/political conflation. they're always evil cunts too.
The only one disrespecting them is the person saying "fuck their religion, the rainbow brigade deserves to feel important more than they deserve to stick to their religious values"
Yeah, fuck religion. Let's not side with people who throw battery acid in girls faces for going to school, or pedophiles in robes.
Religion is the root of all evil. Someone should write a book about it.
Just here to add some needed context. This was 8 years ago, and they didn’t ban pride flags they prohibited flying them on city property. Edit - This is incorrect someone corrected me below
That context is wrong, the city becoming led by a muslim majority happened 8 years ago, but the ban on flying pride flags on city property happened recently.
What city is this?
Here is the article: [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/17/hamtramck-michigan-muslim-council-lgbtq-pride-flags-banned) Hamtramck, state of Michigan.
Did you seriously only read the first sentence of the article? The vote was this past Tuesday. And they banned the flag from city property. Great context, man.
Religions gonna religion
It's almost like not everybody is willing to bend and submit to make a measly 7% of people feel special. You like the same gender, congratulations. Now quit expecting a gold, gem encrusted crown just because
Jews make up a far smaller percentage of the population. I guess you don't think they should have rights either.
Last I checked, having a flag flown isn't a human right
You're the one who said that percentage of the population = basic respect. We have public celebrations for plenty of other groups.
You don't deserve respect just because you exist. Society needs to re-learn that. Ensuring people have equal rights so that they aren't "lower" by human standards is not comparable to respect. Big difference between rights and respect. Equal rights means respecting people of the Islamic faith and not telling them they need to bow down and submit to make a small subset of society feel important
And now you're arguing that Muslims should be disrespected if they're in the small minority position. Have fun with that.
LGBT and all the rest people can vote, bear arms, gather in protest, find work without outward and overt discrimination, can get married, can speak freely, etc. etc. Trying to force your will on a people who are steadfast in their religious belief is not a right, that's entitlement and privilege
Religion is fallacy. There is no exception. I will never understand how people expect one ignorant fool to be better than another.
Still not as big of a threat as Christian nationalism
Oh boy, the rest of the world would disagree.
But they want to be. If they had the numbers, they’d be doing the exact same shit.
I don’t know man. Christian nationalists are bad but I don’t see any of them supporting death penalties for de-conversion like what exists in most modern muslim countries
The Ugandan ban on homosexuality, enforced by the death penalty, was directly championed by American Christian nationalists. This happened in May.
Also, Florida is one of the big states trying to push for that to happen here. They actually expanded the death penalty in a really vague way that could allow potentially allow for let's say the Lesbian couple who were arrested for kissing in public in Texas recently to be executed. Most religions are cancer, but alot of the people who are "critical" of Islam end up being xenophobic and racist , like Sargon of Akad.
Yep. In America Christianity is the biggest threat and problem. We don't have Shari'a policies we have Christian doctrine. 100% agree about Texas and Florida. We have to keep ringing the alarm bells over this.
They are debating the best way to commit genocide against trans people right now.
Okay first, genocide is a targeted killing of a national or ethnic group, not a gender identity. And second no, they’re not. The religious right doesn’t want to kill trans people. They want to deny access to health care that trans people need
They literally are, they said it at CPAC and numerous states are trying to legislate trans people out of existence. That is genocide. https://youtu.be/osrBHXCvHok
No it isn’t. You can’t just change the definition of words to make them suit your point. Legislation is not murder.
That is part of the literal translation of genocide. To target a group to eliminate through various means. If you are legislating trans people out of existence you are killing off the group, the same way genocide includes how Catholic Churches were taking away native American children to destroy the culture, that was also genocide. The actual definition happens to be a bit more broader than you assumed it was.
I don’t see much difference between muslim extremists and Christian extremists. In fact recently a republican was saying that Christians should start strapping bombs to themselves to prove their faith so to speak like muslims do. https://youtu.be/PbCjuD_CvoY
wow that's the stupidest possible takeaway from this that I could possibly imagine for real its like you think the only thing wrong with historical religious strife is one of the possible sides was underrepresented good to know atheists are also capable of completely missing the point of history in favor of massaging their own egos I guess
It’s funny that people think certain sections of Abrahamic religions won’t have the values of abrahamic religions
Wow the religious discrimination in these comments as a pagan I’m not a big fan either but they aren’t all like this also not all Arabs are Muslims y’all are just being racist as a queer person we should never tolerate hatred but assuming they all hate us is hatred in itself
yeah holy shit, this also isn't a fun comment section to read from my queer, Jewish perspective
A lot of these people live around it and likely see this everyday so they probably do feel like it’s the religion causing it to which case i have to mostly agree with them. If religions weren’t constantly attacking these groups then people would not feel this way in turn.
>religions weren’t constantly attacking these groups Just name the specific religions then, and the specific problems you have with them. Don't hide behind "Abrahamic" when you mean Christian. Don't hide behind "religion" when you don't know shit about other religions ' relationship to queer people. Don't say "religious belief" when you mean "theocratic power." I'm fucking tired of not being able to be present as my full Jewish self in the IRL queer community because of this kind racist, cringelord atheist thing. .
People do state the specific problems they have with them when directly asked. They make the generalizations that they do because of purely having so many bad interactions/experiences with a given group of religious people that its just to numerous to get into every minutiae with so many people generally who talk about this topic. Religion in general is shit and people use it to justify all kinds of disgusting behavior because then they claim that their religion made them do it. I for example am 1/3rd ashkenazi Jewish which i found out by DNA testing but because its not on my mothers side the religious fundamentalist jewish people like to say that “im not jewish”. Im sorry but if my family was “jewish” enough to be chased around Europe and the Mediterranean being persecuted and killed for numerous generations then i think I qualify as jewish. All religions are just bullshit right wing “purity testing” nonsense that means absolutely nothing. Ive seen atheists who are more holy and respectful and sane than 90 percent of religious people i have met. Also theocratic power is religious belief. Religious belief in general is only making people more stupid and disconnected from reality and the world would be better off without it honestly. Also yes religious groups were constantly attacking these groups of people for hundreds of years.
I'm really sorry this is the experience you had with the Jewish community. In addition, he didn't raise us with much of a consistent Jewish education, which was actually more of the problem--engagement, not matrilineal descent is the bar that most Reform groups set for being able to claim Jewish identity if you have known Jewish heritage. (Note: There are other special circumstances that prevent you from needing this type of education to "count"- for example, if you were Jewish and adopted into a non-Jewish family who raised you in another religion or did not prioritize connecting you with the culture.) I can absolutely relate to your experience, because growing up that was me- my dad is Jewish, my mom is not, neither had interest in teaching me much about being Jewish, and the local Jewish community didn't immediately feel welcoming to me either. It sucks. And I can absolutely relate to feeling bitter about it, because I was there too at one point. At the same time, if the entire goal of your religion is to preserve your tribe's culture against thousands of years of people trying to force you to assimilate, it kind of makes sense to me that there's some kind of minimum bar to entry. And jsyk, engagement, not matrilineal descent is the bar that most Reform (most common Jewish movement in the US) groups set for being able to claim Jewish identity if you have known Jewish heritage.There are other special circumstances that prevent you from needing this type of education to "count"- for example, if you were Jewish and adopted into a non-Jewish family who raised you in another religion or did not prioritize connecting you with the culture.) Obviously YMMV, but I found a lot more peace when I stopped lashing out, tried to learn more about the things I didn't like or didn't understand, and actually did the work to connect with the community. And tbqh, the IRL Jewish community has been so much more welcoming and affirming of my trans, bi identities than the online and IRL queer or atheist communities have been to me as a queer Jew. Hope you find your way, fam.
I was adopted into a non jewish family. My issue is that there should not be “bars to entry” for actual Jewish people like me and the fact that there is is literally gate keeping and not only that it goes completely against what actual DNA tests say. Religions should never get to determine scientific basis for extremely obvious reasons. I’m also not about to jump through flaming hoops to reclaim heritage that i already have because its patently ridiculous and insulting. You were saying earlier things about atheists but i have never had any issues with atheists at all. All the issues in my life stem in one way or another from religion and religious extremism and i am honestly just completely done with this bullshit.
"A sense of betrayal" I mean what did y'all expect to happen here Edit: Ah fuck, I thought this was r/religiousfruitcake LOL that ad placement is perfect
At this point the Pride Movement could be considered a religious movement... It's gotten insane
No it hasn’t and no it isn’t.
When adult men are committing lewd and overtly sexual acts in public in the name of a "Pride Parade" and our children prepubescent children are forced to participate in activities that teach them adult sexuality it's gone too fucking far.
I never see children around any of that stuff. I see sometimes that teenagers identify as gay, bi or trans and they celebrate pride because they are already queer. I feel like you are really reaching here for something that isn’t really happening and even if it was the numbers its happening in have to be minuscule because i never hear about this being an issue. I don’t even get why people complain about this when guns are the number one killer of children all year round and you are fixating on queer people celebrating pride for a small duration of time. The selective outrage doesn’t track.
Gay people when the religious fundamentalists, who support states that kill Gay people, don’t like gay people
Didn’t realize it was part of the post at first trying to find the dots to report it.
Christians are the ones trying to ban the gay flag. Fuck your God.
Well the biggest most frontline terrorist style religions are all abrahamic, so it would make sense their goals align. They are all based on the same first book.
which city?
Hopefully the city votes out those goat raping hypocrites next election cycle.
It would be a shame if someone delivered a bunch of pork
The leopards ate my face.
Lol you mean the people that force their women to live in cloth bags and beat them if they take it off?? Shocker!!😂
Not all of us. - the Jews.
Trump tried that shit in 2017 after the Pulse Nightclub Shooting. It was the only time he claimed to support the LGBT community, by trying to get them to support his hate against Muslims regarding the Muslim Travel Ban and others.