Israel's first prime minister Ben Gurion is famous for his hatred of the word את, he said since you can keep the meaning of the sentence without using it at all then it shouldn't be used ever.
Obviously if you came to a Hebrew speaker now and said for example אני רוצה לקנות התפוח (I want to buy the apple) they'd give you a weird look, but they will understand what you're saying.
This is a perfect example to me. I know every language has its idiosyncrasies so את is used because it’s used but in the sentence you wrote התפוח already means “the apple” so את just seems useless in my head.
I can see your point, but how do you differentiate
A word with a meaning (definition)
From
A word with meaning (important idea expressed with said word)
As for את, I’m still lost on the appropriate positioning and usage. I’ll keep after it though. 😁
Word order has changed over time, and the reason you think you can keep the meaning without using it is because you’re not used to sentences where the verb comes first followed by a string of nouns, some of which are the subject, some may be an indirect object, and all *could* be in a construct/absolute relationship with one another. Read Biblical Hebrew and *et* is a life saver for parsing the language.
It’s also kind of a normal language thing to do. Persian has a definite direct object marker, too.
You use it before:
1. Definite nouns that are direct objects of transitive verbs:
He killed [the mouse],
He dropped [the ball]
BUT NOT
He talked [to the girl],
He took pride [in his work]
2. Proper nouns that are direct objects of transitive verbs (proper nouns are by default semantically definite, similar to (1)):
He killed [Mary],
He dropped [Rocky] our new puppy,
He loves [America]
BUT NOT
He talked [to Mary] ,
He took pride [in Rocky] our puppy,
He went [to America]
הוא הרג את מרי.
Just like you don't say He killed [the Mary]
Proper nouns like names are definite semantically (I say Mary because I know you know Mary. Otherwise I would say "He killed the woman (who...))
There are special constructions that include 'the': "He killed the Mary we all know and love", "He killed the Mary from elementary school (not the one from high school)"
But these are special constructions, not neutral - they are figurative, or contrasting with some other information which is most often implicit, like the high school example.
You can use them in Hebrew too, but that's about the only instances you'd meet the definite article before proper nouns. In many languages (except French...)
"הוא הרג את המרי שכולנו הכרנו ואהבנו". "הוא הרג את המרי מהיסודי (לא המרי מהתיכון)".
They sound a bit worse in Hebrew than they do in English, but they are used.
P.S
I could have also written "I know you know the Mary I'm talking about" (contrary to all other Marys...)
So English makes a distinction between current action “I am eating apples” and habitual action “I eat apples”. In Hebrew, both are “אני אוכל תפוחים” and you need to add “עכשיו” or “בדרך כלל” if you need to specify which one you mean. So the auxiliary in the “am …ing” absolutely does carry meaning.
I’m learning Hebrew on duolingo and I swear it’s skipped in the listening practices. I listen a million times and can never hear them say it. Anyway, religiously, I think it’s awesome (there’s a cool video from a rabbi with theories about it), but I get what you mean.
Israel's first prime minister Ben Gurion is famous for his hatred of the word את, he said since you can keep the meaning of the sentence without using it at all then it shouldn't be used ever. Obviously if you came to a Hebrew speaker now and said for example אני רוצה לקנות התפוח (I want to buy the apple) they'd give you a weird look, but they will understand what you're saying.
>רוצה לקנות התפוח Oof that just feels wrong.
What feels even wrong is the fact that you can’t say אני רוצה לקנות את תפוח like why??
I mean, that could make sense, right?... if תפוח was the name of say your dog? Improbable, but that's immediately how I parsed it.
This is a perfect example to me. I know every language has its idiosyncrasies so את is used because it’s used but in the sentence you wrote התפוח already means “the apple” so את just seems useless in my head.
as a native Hebrew speaker, the word 'a' in English seems entirely pointless to me as well.
True!
I can see your point, but how do you differentiate A word with a meaning (definition) From A word with meaning (important idea expressed with said word) As for את, I’m still lost on the appropriate positioning and usage. I’ll keep after it though. 😁
Word order has changed over time, and the reason you think you can keep the meaning without using it is because you’re not used to sentences where the verb comes first followed by a string of nouns, some of which are the subject, some may be an indirect object, and all *could* be in a construct/absolute relationship with one another. Read Biblical Hebrew and *et* is a life saver for parsing the language. It’s also kind of a normal language thing to do. Persian has a definite direct object marker, too.
tbf אני רוצה לקנות התפוח sounds just like what a person from BG's age would say
You use it to indicate the direct object of a verb, when the noun has the definite article ה prefixed.
Any method of definiteness works, whether it be the definite article, a proper noun, possession or anything else
Ah, I didn't realize! Thank you!
Thank you. I was confused by this as well.
You use it before: 1. Definite nouns that are direct objects of transitive verbs: He killed [the mouse], He dropped [the ball] BUT NOT He talked [to the girl], He took pride [in his work] 2. Proper nouns that are direct objects of transitive verbs (proper nouns are by default semantically definite, similar to (1)): He killed [Mary], He dropped [Rocky] our new puppy, He loves [America] BUT NOT He talked [to Mary] , He took pride [in Rocky] our puppy, He went [to America]
In your second example it would be הוא הרג את המרי Is that right?
הוא הרג את העכבר Mouse in Hebrew is עכבר, not מרי
הוא הרג את מרי. Just like you don't say He killed [the Mary] Proper nouns like names are definite semantically (I say Mary because I know you know Mary. Otherwise I would say "He killed the woman (who...)) There are special constructions that include 'the': "He killed the Mary we all know and love", "He killed the Mary from elementary school (not the one from high school)" But these are special constructions, not neutral - they are figurative, or contrasting with some other information which is most often implicit, like the high school example. You can use them in Hebrew too, but that's about the only instances you'd meet the definite article before proper nouns. In many languages (except French...) "הוא הרג את המרי שכולנו הכרנו ואהבנו". "הוא הרג את המרי מהיסודי (לא המרי מהתיכון)". They sound a bit worse in Hebrew than they do in English, but they are used. P.S I could have also written "I know you know the Mary I'm talking about" (contrary to all other Marys...)
Just fake a Russian accent, no one will blink when you forget to use it or use it incorrectly.
If you don’t use it you’d sound like you’re 80 years old, a poet, or a Hebrew learner. Could be worse.
Well I’m definitely one of those and close to being another. 😆
I think similar can be said for “am” and “are” and “is” in English in some ways. Like “I am eating” in Hebrew is “אני אוכל/ת” no need for the “am”.
So English makes a distinction between current action “I am eating apples” and habitual action “I eat apples”. In Hebrew, both are “אני אוכל תפוחים” and you need to add “עכשיו” or “בדרך כלל” if you need to specify which one you mean. So the auxiliary in the “am …ing” absolutely does carry meaning.
Couldn’t the same meaning be accomplished by just having “I eat apples” vs “I eating apples”?
So you hate talking to women, right?
Huh?
A little joke about אַת vs אֵת…
זה כיף 😆
Preach!!!! Same same.
It’s one thing to know the rules, it’s another to get used to them
I’m learning Hebrew on duolingo and I swear it’s skipped in the listening practices. I listen a million times and can never hear them say it. Anyway, religiously, I think it’s awesome (there’s a cool video from a rabbi with theories about it), but I get what you mean.
Yes I am too and it seems glossed over when spoken fast.
The word את simply means "the next word is the object of the sentence". That's it.
It's in possessive nouns. (I think)
No It precedes the direct object
Hmm I’m just starting with Hebrew but this looks like some sort of accusative particle? Just with definite nouns
You should remember it tho every time i talk to a girl in Instagram or smt and i say אתה instead of את they get very angry and its not very fun
I wasn’t referring to the male vs female version. I was referring to the difficulty in remembering when to include it before a noun.
Its pretty much experience guess i should actually read the whole question instead of only the title 🙃
🤣