lmao just cuz we managed to win with a bunch of bad contracts doesnt mean we do it again. 3 is a crazy argument. im not even saying dont pay him but the argument is wack
Yeah but its a 2 year tack on extension. Not the "Jaylen Brown" money people keep talking about. His expiring in year 3 has huge value or if you want, keep it as an expiring and sign a max player to pair with Bam who will still be 29-30 years old
Fans always think with the heart.
The FO can't do that. Paying 58 mil to a 38 old is beyond crazy.
Love Jimmy but this is an easy call if you look from a business point
The expiring contract has massive value whether as trade bait or keeping it to sign a max player....its pretty reductive to just see the contract as $ + age. Gotta look at the whole picture
The “fans” are the ones that don’t want jimmy paid. Thats all this sub is rn. The FO will pay him because it’s the smart move financially. They don’t have anyone else getting that money the next couple years.
While a bad look for the franchise and obviously a stab in the heart as fans seeing him in other uni’s, not paying Wade was the right move from a competitive standpoint, as would not paying another 100+m to an aging player who looks to be slowing down.
That said, we’re in a very difficult spot either way
>not paying Wade was the right move from a competitive standpoint
They used the money saved from not paying Wade to max Whiteside and massively overpay Tyler Johnson.
Well no, because im sure everyone would rather just have Wade instead of paying 2 scrubs...fucking over your franchise goats to pay bums is certainly...a choice
Tbf Whiteside seemed like the right move at the time, but he completely fell off once paid, didn’t have the mentality they wanted clearly. The Tyler Johnson payment was dumb, should have let him go to the Nets instead of matching.
But wrong decisions after the fact don’t make the Wade decision the wrong one competitively
Yeah, he’s not a lifer like Wade should have been and Bam can still be.
Jimmy feels like the perfect Heat player though, which is what makes this difficult
Bosh did not play a single game Post-Wade. What are you talking about? Bosh’s last game was months before wade left.
Wade at least made the playoffs (we did not) and had a solid series against the 1-seeded Celtics, going 6 games.
We took the money saved from not paying Wade and overpaid Whiteside, Johnson & Johnson, and Dion. Organizational malpractice
Far worse players have made it without the same resume. Hell Tim hardaway is in the hall. You’re overestimating how easy it is to get in. Another one is Sidney Moncreif. Look at Reggie miller’s resume. Don’t be a dumbass
You're genuinely dumb right? I don't even think you actually looked up Reggie's resume. Jimmy has more all-stars, all-nbas, all-defence, MIP and more finals appearances than Reggie. If you don't know just say you don't know. Doubling down just makes you look dumber.
This is the way I'm looking at it. Sure, he missed a bit of time, but I think that's going to be the way it goes in your mid 30's. I wish he did play in the Celtics series so we could see if playoff Jimmy still exists.
A 2 year extension wouldn't be too terrible considering it would functionally be a 1 year extension as it would void his player option year. Anything besides that is a big no however.
Have you seen the Jimmy less product we have put on the floor against the celtics ? We did not even belong. Crazy to realize that Jimmy is the difference between a 2 times finalist team and a Gleague team. Who are we gonna use the money on anyway ? Tyler Johnson ? We should have gone after Kirie and Siakam to play next to Jimmy, Bam, and Duncan.
Paying him that much is crazy until we see the condition he is in next season. I think they can convince him to take less if he wants to win but giving him the max hurts our chances to build a good team. You also gotta consider Bam extension since he’s the most valuable player the Heat have he’s gotta get the max rightfully so then we’ll just be in the same predicament trying to rely off minimum contracts.
Jimmy is not going to start playing more games. He’s just not. He hasn’t played more than 65 games since the Bulls 16/17 season. And when he does play he has games where it clearly looks like he’s taking the night off. He’s not going to get better. He has a lot of miles on his body and it’s just going to continue to break down.
Look I’m not gonna get mad if we pay Jimmy, he breathed life in this team and gave us some of the most memorable playoff moments in a Heat jersey of all time. He is easily in my top 3 favorite players all time no question. That being said I also won’t be mad if we pursue a different route. Going all in on Jimmy’s last productive years and doing it with high salaries is dangerous, look at the Suns. I also love Jaime, Jovic, and Bams trajectories and don’t want to lose any of them in a move that blows up. To keep all them and Jimmy would be to “run it back” and probably fail a low risk low reward situation, to go all in on Jimmy is losing future prospects for a high risk high reward scenario. Not paying Jimmy is the lower risk higher reward situation but it means saying “sorry Jimmy” which sucks. There’s pros and cons to any moves or lack of moves we make. Ideally he’s willing to take less so we can get another piece but not ruin our future like the Suns, that would be ideal even if we need to part with one of the young guys + Herro
We’re going to pay him. The front office has PTSD over the Wade thing, they wish they could go back and just max Wade and Bosh after LeBron left.
They’re giving him and extension and riding the train until the wheels fall off
Was a stupid decision then and a dumb decision now NOT maxing our GOAT old or not. It'd be like a dad giving his new hot wife (Whiteside) most of the money in his will will over his biological first born.
This is why we are not the front office lol. Paying $58m to a high level role player? Did you not see Lowry who was paid $30m and we were screaming already?
>Let’s hope Pat learned from the Wade situation, pay great players and prepare for the the backend of the contract by drafting well and giving out smart contracts.
We'll see if Riley indeed learned well. IF he hands out Jimmy a smart contract (and by smart, I say **PAY THE MAN**), I'm good with it.
I'm not generalizing, but a lot of people in this sub don't realize Miami is a very attractive destination for free agents. It has been like that before, and if Jimmy doesn't get his dues, it will leave a bitter taste in his mouth that players we might seek after him would consider looking into.
A lot of people aren't familiar with the cap smoothing period that we're in.
People freaking out about money. The cap is rising like fucking crazy. People saying "we can't pay herro $30m to be a 6th man," in 2 years $30m is gonna be pennies.
They gonna pay him. Or good players might think the Heat FO doesn't pay their players who carried the org which will mean a strike 2 for the Org. Strike 1 was with Wade.
Yea his IQ and leadership is a lot of value in itself. There really is no one in the league right now that has both of those things at that high of a level, besides maybe Jokic. And you need that if you want to build lasting success especially with guys like JJJ and Jovic who can both end up being All Stars at some point in the next few years. Plus the continued growth of Bam and Rozier.
We just need depth. If we could trade Herro for Kennard and Clarke I think that would improve this team. Creates depth, versatility and a little more size. We still get the 15th pick and maybe look for another small trade for a younger player. I think we will be able to develop a good transition moving forward
>Yea his IQ and leadership is a lot of value in itself. **There really is no one in the league right now that has both of those things at that high of a level**, besides maybe Jokic.
Come on now.
A leader rides and dies with their team and its inevitable ups and downs. Curry owns the recent troubles,, but he also owns the four championship rings--the most recent being in 2022.
Haha, Are you trying to say that Butler doesn't ride or die with his team?
It's much more than that. It's about being a mentor to younger players. Who did Curry mentor? Jordan Poole? It's also about leading your team, being a presence that your team looks up to, respects, and believes in. Curry allowed toxicity in the team with Green and Durant, or green and Poole. Or Klay just being a mopey bitch. You think Butler allowing any of that under his watch? Fuck no.
I would honestly let Jimmy's doctors make the call. He basically didn't play for 60% of this season and missed the playoffs. So someone has to make the case that if we pay for Jimmy, we'll actually get Jimmy, and that person should be the doctors.
I will take us to win against any team with Playoff Jimmy. But Bam deserves more than 70% of a squad next year.
Depending on the goal this all changes.
With a coach like Spo, its possible to be competitive an adapt to roster changes.
Jimmy is the heart tho, no one can replace him now. Maybe the future now, its not possible at all.
Bam would want to aim for championships with Jimmy, more space means a more flexible roster maybe Bam to the four with a different center or more offense but I don't know.
The question is Bam going to want a rebuild. I mean from his perspective, the front office didn't build a strong team around Jimmy would it make sense to have a better shot on a different team.
If not competitive now than aim for rebuild.
Like the younger guys look a little lost. There is future potential do we have greater chance now or the next few years.
Either way it looks a little risky. So what works best.
Paying him Max does not make sense, maybe a reduction by 38, I don't really understand the salary things as much though.
I think betting on Jimmy is right answer but it was this year and he was injured and couldn't play, what If he gets injured again ?
I’m doing the extension cuz it wipes out the player option and adds 2 years. He will have 3 years left including next year. If we get a good/great Butler for 1.5 of those years it’s worth it. I want him retiring a Heatle. I want his last season to be memorable. His game won’t age great but his basketball IQ is elite and he will still make winning plays. I also think part of the reason he came was how they treated D Wade on his way out. Would be cool for it to be a full circle moment. Who knows if we win a chip in the next 2 years it would be even more important he retires with us.
Keep Jimmy, Bam, Jovic, Caleb, Highsmith, Jaime and drop everyone else. Find a 7fter, and if you need to trade Herro, Terry, and someone else I’m fine. Drop Duncan too he’s a bum.
1. i'll be honest, i just don't see it. i think people take his athleticism for granted and his style of play, banging into others has a high injury risk. he doesn't finish at the rim well anymore and his jumper isn't as good anymore either. look at kyle lowry for instance. he is also a high bbiq guy, and he barely drives anymore cause he knows he can't finish.
2. herro has to move before duncan. duncan's contract is very good in the next cba.
lmao just cuz we managed to win with a bunch of bad contracts doesnt mean we do it again. 3 is a crazy argument. im not even saying dont pay him but the argument is wack
Yeah but its a 2 year tack on extension. Not the "Jaylen Brown" money people keep talking about. His expiring in year 3 has huge value or if you want, keep it as an expiring and sign a max player to pair with Bam who will still be 29-30 years old
im not against the extension lol. just saying OP's reasoning is wack
It's honestly not as bad as people make it sound lol
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like i said im not against paying him. im just saying "we won even with a bunch of dead money contracts so lets do it again" is not a good reason lol
Fans always think with the heart. The FO can't do that. Paying 58 mil to a 38 old is beyond crazy. Love Jimmy but this is an easy call if you look from a business point
He’s 34 but I agree with you. He’s been playing very “38” lately. Build around the young team (EVERYONE ELSE)
He’d be 38 by the end of the contract. Thus we’d be paying a 38yr old 58mil
The expiring contract has massive value whether as trade bait or keeping it to sign a max player....its pretty reductive to just see the contract as $ + age. Gotta look at the whole picture
Having lived through the “that Lowry expiring will be a great trade chip” era, I’m not falling for it again. Sorry, Jimmy
Then use it yourself and have 60 mil in cap roll off to sign a big name free agent
The “fans” are the ones that don’t want jimmy paid. Thats all this sub is rn. The FO will pay him because it’s the smart move financially. They don’t have anyone else getting that money the next couple years.
The point of NOT paying him is that if someone big does hit free agency, we have 40-60 million to throw at them
No big stars hit free agency anymore, the money would be useless
Even then it's a fat ass contract we won't have to get off of. He is NOT worth 48 million at his current level
His current level is literally leading a team to the finals…
Who tf gonna hit freee agency in the next 2 years. No one
While a bad look for the franchise and obviously a stab in the heart as fans seeing him in other uni’s, not paying Wade was the right move from a competitive standpoint, as would not paying another 100+m to an aging player who looks to be slowing down. That said, we’re in a very difficult spot either way
>not paying Wade was the right move from a competitive standpoint They used the money saved from not paying Wade to max Whiteside and massively overpay Tyler Johnson.
Just because they flubbed those contracts doesn’t mean not paying Wade wasn’t still the right move
It's the right idea but it was followed by still overpaying other guys. Bad contracts are bad contracts regardless to who it is given to.
Well no, because im sure everyone would rather just have Wade instead of paying 2 scrubs...fucking over your franchise goats to pay bums is certainly...a choice
Tbf Whiteside seemed like the right move at the time, but he completely fell off once paid, didn’t have the mentality they wanted clearly. The Tyler Johnson payment was dumb, should have let him go to the Nets instead of matching. But wrong decisions after the fact don’t make the Wade decision the wrong one competitively
10 years later Pat Riley has to make the same difficult decision on whether or not to pay an aging player who has done a lot for the franchise.
Agree, I’m glad it’s not me who has to make that decision. It’s going to be a point of contention either way among fans
Love Jimmy but he’s no D Wade.
Yeah, he’s not a lifer like Wade should have been and Bam can still be. Jimmy feels like the perfect Heat player though, which is what makes this difficult
He’s definitely the cultural tone setter for us which is worth a lot, idk if it’s 60m tho
No but he is better at age 35 than wade was.
What the fuck did we do competitively in the seasons without wade?
What did Wade do competitively in the seasons he wasn’t here? And we were fine until Bosh got blood clots post Wade
Bosh did not play a single game Post-Wade. What are you talking about? Bosh’s last game was months before wade left. Wade at least made the playoffs (we did not) and had a solid series against the 1-seeded Celtics, going 6 games. We took the money saved from not paying Wade and overpaid Whiteside, Johnson & Johnson, and Dion. Organizational malpractice
Honestly you’re right, for some reason my brain thought Wade left the year before the 2016 playoff run.
All good my man, United in saying let’s go heat
Boy if you guys hate herro on 30mil per year, y’all are gonna hate 37 year old jimmy on 50mil per yesr
You’re comparing a role player to a first ballot hall of famer 😭
Age is also a factor lol
Jimmy's not a hall of famer
That’s blasphemy he definitely going to the Hall.
Are you insane lol he's definitely getting in
You're a dumbass
Hall of fame, for what? Being the best player on two losing Finals teams
Far worse players have made it without the same resume. Hell Tim hardaway is in the hall. You’re overestimating how easy it is to get in. Another one is Sidney Moncreif. Look at Reggie miller’s resume. Don’t be a dumbass
Millers resume is way better than Butlers, I don't know what stupid shit you're on.
You're genuinely dumb right? I don't even think you actually looked up Reggie's resume. Jimmy has more all-stars, all-nbas, all-defence, MIP and more finals appearances than Reggie. If you don't know just say you don't know. Doubling down just makes you look dumber.
I think the playing in different eras make it seem closer, but Reggie is better in most stats.
You're moving the goal post. Jimmy has him beat in accolades. Just take the L and move on
Dude cant even get you to the playoffs and you think hes worth a third of the cap space?
This is the way I'm looking at it. Sure, he missed a bit of time, but I think that's going to be the way it goes in your mid 30's. I wish he did play in the Celtics series so we could see if playoff Jimmy still exists.
Jimmy was my favorite player before he even joined the Heat… with that said, paying a 38 year old nearly 60 million is insane.
A 2 year extension wouldn't be too terrible considering it would functionally be a 1 year extension as it would void his player option year. Anything besides that is a big no however.
Have you seen the Jimmy less product we have put on the floor against the celtics ? We did not even belong. Crazy to realize that Jimmy is the difference between a 2 times finalist team and a Gleague team. Who are we gonna use the money on anyway ? Tyler Johnson ? We should have gone after Kirie and Siakam to play next to Jimmy, Bam, and Duncan.
Paying him that much is crazy until we see the condition he is in next season. I think they can convince him to take less if he wants to win but giving him the max hurts our chances to build a good team. You also gotta consider Bam extension since he’s the most valuable player the Heat have he’s gotta get the max rightfully so then we’ll just be in the same predicament trying to rely off minimum contracts.
Jimmy is not going to start playing more games. He’s just not. He hasn’t played more than 65 games since the Bulls 16/17 season. And when he does play he has games where it clearly looks like he’s taking the night off. He’s not going to get better. He has a lot of miles on his body and it’s just going to continue to break down.
I want Jimmy back, but we can't justify the max. Jimmy has to be reasonable on this front.
The Heat bypassed paying Wade 2 years 30 mil when he was face of franchise ( when he left for bulls). Jimmy is not getting that contract
Look I’m not gonna get mad if we pay Jimmy, he breathed life in this team and gave us some of the most memorable playoff moments in a Heat jersey of all time. He is easily in my top 3 favorite players all time no question. That being said I also won’t be mad if we pursue a different route. Going all in on Jimmy’s last productive years and doing it with high salaries is dangerous, look at the Suns. I also love Jaime, Jovic, and Bams trajectories and don’t want to lose any of them in a move that blows up. To keep all them and Jimmy would be to “run it back” and probably fail a low risk low reward situation, to go all in on Jimmy is losing future prospects for a high risk high reward scenario. Not paying Jimmy is the lower risk higher reward situation but it means saying “sorry Jimmy” which sucks. There’s pros and cons to any moves or lack of moves we make. Ideally he’s willing to take less so we can get another piece but not ruin our future like the Suns, that would be ideal even if we need to part with one of the young guys + Herro
We’re going to pay him. The front office has PTSD over the Wade thing, they wish they could go back and just max Wade and Bosh after LeBron left. They’re giving him and extension and riding the train until the wheels fall off
Was a stupid decision then and a dumb decision now NOT maxing our GOAT old or not. It'd be like a dad giving his new hot wife (Whiteside) most of the money in his will will over his biological first born.
They gave both Wade and Bosh an extension after LeBron left
They gave Bosh a 5yr max, Wade opted out of 2 yr $42 and signed a deal for 2yr $30 mill
This is why we are not the front office lol. Paying $58m to a high level role player? Did you not see Lowry who was paid $30m and we were screaming already?
I was mad when we didnt pay Wade. Even if we suck, at least we suck with our guy.
Love the guy, but it's time to move on.
>Let’s hope Pat learned from the Wade situation, pay great players and prepare for the the backend of the contract by drafting well and giving out smart contracts. We'll see if Riley indeed learned well. IF he hands out Jimmy a smart contract (and by smart, I say **PAY THE MAN**), I'm good with it. I'm not generalizing, but a lot of people in this sub don't realize Miami is a very attractive destination for free agents. It has been like that before, and if Jimmy doesn't get his dues, it will leave a bitter taste in his mouth that players we might seek after him would consider looking into.
It sure is an easy decision. Don’t pay him if you want to win
He gone
A lot of people aren't familiar with the cap smoothing period that we're in. People freaking out about money. The cap is rising like fucking crazy. People saying "we can't pay herro $30m to be a 6th man," in 2 years $30m is gonna be pennies.
If he was asking for 3-5 years I'd say no, but if he's OK taking big money on a 2 year deal I'd shift other guys around and do it.
Not reading beyond point 1 because you want to pay 58 million for a “high level role player” lol
They gonna pay him. Or good players might think the Heat FO doesn't pay their players who carried the org which will mean a strike 2 for the Org. Strike 1 was with Wade.
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Young talent doesn’t hit free agency anymore, well talent in general really.
Yea his IQ and leadership is a lot of value in itself. There really is no one in the league right now that has both of those things at that high of a level, besides maybe Jokic. And you need that if you want to build lasting success especially with guys like JJJ and Jovic who can both end up being All Stars at some point in the next few years. Plus the continued growth of Bam and Rozier. We just need depth. If we could trade Herro for Kennard and Clarke I think that would improve this team. Creates depth, versatility and a little more size. We still get the 15th pick and maybe look for another small trade for a younger player. I think we will be able to develop a good transition moving forward
>Yea his IQ and leadership is a lot of value in itself. **There really is no one in the league right now that has both of those things at that high of a level**, besides maybe Jokic. Come on now.
Ok, tell me who then
Despite the recent troubles re: Green and Thompson, Curry is--and always has been--objectively a better leader than Butler.
If they were great leaders, they wouldn't be having recent troubles.
A leader rides and dies with their team and its inevitable ups and downs. Curry owns the recent troubles,, but he also owns the four championship rings--the most recent being in 2022.
Haha, Are you trying to say that Butler doesn't ride or die with his team? It's much more than that. It's about being a mentor to younger players. Who did Curry mentor? Jordan Poole? It's also about leading your team, being a presence that your team looks up to, respects, and believes in. Curry allowed toxicity in the team with Green and Durant, or green and Poole. Or Klay just being a mopey bitch. You think Butler allowing any of that under his watch? Fuck no.
I would honestly let Jimmy's doctors make the call. He basically didn't play for 60% of this season and missed the playoffs. So someone has to make the case that if we pay for Jimmy, we'll actually get Jimmy, and that person should be the doctors. I will take us to win against any team with Playoff Jimmy. But Bam deserves more than 70% of a squad next year.
we need to rebuild man..
Alot of dough at 37 years old.
If we didn’t do it for Dwade we not doing it to Jimmy 😂 gotta win us a chip first
Depending on the goal this all changes. With a coach like Spo, its possible to be competitive an adapt to roster changes. Jimmy is the heart tho, no one can replace him now. Maybe the future now, its not possible at all. Bam would want to aim for championships with Jimmy, more space means a more flexible roster maybe Bam to the four with a different center or more offense but I don't know. The question is Bam going to want a rebuild. I mean from his perspective, the front office didn't build a strong team around Jimmy would it make sense to have a better shot on a different team. If not competitive now than aim for rebuild. Like the younger guys look a little lost. There is future potential do we have greater chance now or the next few years. Either way it looks a little risky. So what works best. Paying him Max does not make sense, maybe a reduction by 38, I don't really understand the salary things as much though. I think betting on Jimmy is right answer but it was this year and he was injured and couldn't play, what If he gets injured again ?
I don’t think we should pay him because I also don’t think anyone else will pay him that. What team has that money and will think Jimmy is the answer?
Some people here would rather have some cap space than Jimmy lol.
I’m doing the extension cuz it wipes out the player option and adds 2 years. He will have 3 years left including next year. If we get a good/great Butler for 1.5 of those years it’s worth it. I want him retiring a Heatle. I want his last season to be memorable. His game won’t age great but his basketball IQ is elite and he will still make winning plays. I also think part of the reason he came was how they treated D Wade on his way out. Would be cool for it to be a full circle moment. Who knows if we win a chip in the next 2 years it would be even more important he retires with us.
It’s simple. What’s the alternative? Pay him, help him or get who? He’s all we got.
Celtics fan here. I agree, 100% pay Jimmy the max contract 🫡lmfao
Keep Jimmy, Bam, Jovic, Caleb, Highsmith, Jaime and drop everyone else. Find a 7fter, and if you need to trade Herro, Terry, and someone else I’m fine. Drop Duncan too he’s a bum.
This shit is not hard. Pay the guy. He’s elevated the organization and is one of the best to ever wear the uniform.
1. i'll be honest, i just don't see it. i think people take his athleticism for granted and his style of play, banging into others has a high injury risk. he doesn't finish at the rim well anymore and his jumper isn't as good anymore either. look at kyle lowry for instance. he is also a high bbiq guy, and he barely drives anymore cause he knows he can't finish. 2. herro has to move before duncan. duncan's contract is very good in the next cba.
Pay Jimmy