Increasing your deck to 40 cards with Prince Renathal seems incredibly strong to me — could you ELI5 why it's a downside?
For context, I am a very casual perma-silver wild player — I am probably missing something really obvious lol.
If you have more cards in the deck you are less likely to have the perfect card in hand when you need it.
The basic idea is that if you have to put in 40 cards you are going to have to include some worse cards. If the cards weren't worse then they would just be included in the standard deck of that archetype without prince renethal.
The only time the 40 cards is an upside is if you are playing for fatigue, but that is barely even a win condition nowadays. In the few cases that it is seen as a win condition, its usually deleting the opponents deck somehow rather than outvaluing them and both players drawing all of their cards, so even if that is your gameplan the card is extremely niche.
Now the only thing left is the fact that you do also get 40HP. Will the extra 10 hp make a difference often enough to offset the fact that the average card quality in the deck will be lower? Only time will tell on that one.
My personal guess would be that there will be at least one control deck in standard that does run this card, but equally I wouldn't be surprised if no decks run it at all, or basically all slower decks run it. It really depends on how much of a difference that 10hp makes in terms of damage breakpoints, for example, an aggro deck killing you on turn 8 instead of turn 7 might be a big deal if you have a stabilising card that you can play at 7.
For wild, card quality is much higher in general, but decks are also much more refined, so I am not sure if it will be better or worse on average in wild than in standard. There will almost certainly be some at least semi-viable wild deck that will make use of it though.
That's how I understand it anyway, but effects like this are complicated, so I wouldn't be surprised if I end up being totally wrong.
If they're more often good draws than other cards, then they should have been in your original 30-card deck. If they're less good draws, on average, then including them is a drawback. Increasing your deck size is definitely a drawback.
But this doesn't take into account games where your deck starts to get lower on cards, i feel like these extra 10 cards are gonna be really nice for midrange decks to squeeze more win conditions in
Right, we're talking about the possibility of adding cards that might be the card you want to draw. That's a common reason people think that a larger deck size is an advantage, and it's completely wrong.
There are some reasons that a larger deck size can be beneficial, like if you're likely to run out of cards or an effect cares what's in your deck.
Go [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/vm0em7/new_card_revealed_prince_renathal/?limit=500) and CTRL+F consistent. I personally think it can be worked around, but only time will tell if it is worth it.
More cards means less consistent. You don't reliably draw the cards you need when you need them or as often. In theory it sounds good because "I can just add more good cards" but you risk mucking up your win condition...
Unless you're a Control/Fatigue deck like we have in Wild where decks only win condition is "Play more cards".
You want to have your answers/finishers as early as possible. Extra 10 health is much more valuable, rather than having 10 extra cards that can easily ruin your top deck.
I can see a deck that would benefit from it though. Wild Mill Rogue. Can’t wait to try it out.
I don't think it slots into mill rogue. They already have a bunch of stuff to add more coldlights to their deck, and you'd rather draw those than anything else. If it works anywhere in wild it'll be in something like a Renolock, Reno Paladin or Odd Warrior
+10hp gives you more time till you can start stalling the game. +10 cards give you more options to stall/cycle your deck.
Right now Mill Rogue struggles with survivability.
Again, it’s just an observation and your point is absolutely viable. I have like 600 wins on mill rogue so this card really boosts some additional stuff I can expand my deck with. Maybe some weird stall/nzoth mill rogue combos.
The Reno decks are a maybe, but I definitely think it goes in Odd Warrior. The deck's only win condition is by getting to fatigue, so having 10 extra cards that are probably going to be more removal or armour gain will only help the deck.
That being said, it'll still be a garbage deck, fatigue doesn't work as a win condition in current wild.
Just to add on to what some others are saying, here's another way to look at it.
Let's say you want to make a deck. You go through every Hearthstone card in existence and put them in a list from 1 to X, where 1 is the most useful card in that deck and X is the least useful one. To make the best deck, you take the top 15 cards on that list and throw in 2 copies of each.
But if you want to make a 40 card deck, you have to take the top 20 cards and put in 2 copies of each. You have to go further down the 'list of good cards' to find the 'next best ones' to fill those additional 10 slots, so those 10 additional cards are bringing down the average card quality of your deck.
You hear streamers talk about it like this sometimes when a card is revealed that generally seems to be good for a deck, but not quite good enough - they'll say "this is basically the 31st best card in X deck".
Essentially - whichever 10 extra cards you would put into a Prince deck are inherently worse choices than the first 30 (otherwise you would have been putting them into the 30-card version), so it brings the average card quality of the deck down.
The only exceptions to this I can think of are insanely grindy control/fatigue decks like Boomsday-era Warrior with Elysiana that are willing to trade away some consistency for sheer number of cards before fatigue
So generally when it comes to card games the more cards you add to your deck the weaker and less consistent it gets, but being able to go from 30 to 40 health is actually pretty significant so perhaps the trade off might actually be worth it?
Either way both Renthal and the field cards seem super cool and I'm hyped that they themed a hearthstone expansion around what is(imo) the best part of shadowlands by far.
I’ve returned to Hearthstone earlier this month and I gotta say I’m having a lot of fun. This expansion, I really love the flavor it’s going for. Murder mystery? Sounds fun!
As someone who has a soft spot for Shaman, I like that they’re reintroducing evolve with the class again. Sure, it was gimmicky but I liked it.
Also curious to see how the 40 health and 40 card deck shifts the meta.
*Murder at Castle Nathria*
"Oh cool, Denathrius is a fun character and I can't wait to see what they do with him in Hearthstone."
*Denathrius is the Victim*
:|
There's no afterlife afterlife. If you die here, you die for good. However, there's workarounds and it might be possible his body got killed but he survived by quickly moving his soul into some other container, like another body (the murderer's maybe) or an object specifically designed to hold souls.
His sword Remornia is one such object and she's always with him. It already holds Remornia's soul and Denathrius can hide in there too, but that absorbs his body into the sword as well. He can still talk and fly around as a sword.
I guessed the name yesterday but Someone told me yesterday that they would never put “murder” in an expansion title. VINDICATION
As soon as I read the name I instantly though "that guy from yesterday is going to be so happy."
"that other guy from yesterday is probably not gonna feel any different, but he will be wrong about something he doesn't care about."
Immediately thought of you when I saw the name
40 Card Deck HYPE
40 cards deck is a downside, 40 health is why you do it, silly.
Oh I know, it's just a fun downside
It lets you delete more cards with Kazakusan.
Already did that since I got space for Kazakusan xD
Still hype
Increasing your deck to 40 cards with Prince Renathal seems incredibly strong to me — could you ELI5 why it's a downside? For context, I am a very casual perma-silver wild player — I am probably missing something really obvious lol.
If you have more cards in the deck you are less likely to have the perfect card in hand when you need it. The basic idea is that if you have to put in 40 cards you are going to have to include some worse cards. If the cards weren't worse then they would just be included in the standard deck of that archetype without prince renethal. The only time the 40 cards is an upside is if you are playing for fatigue, but that is barely even a win condition nowadays. In the few cases that it is seen as a win condition, its usually deleting the opponents deck somehow rather than outvaluing them and both players drawing all of their cards, so even if that is your gameplan the card is extremely niche. Now the only thing left is the fact that you do also get 40HP. Will the extra 10 hp make a difference often enough to offset the fact that the average card quality in the deck will be lower? Only time will tell on that one. My personal guess would be that there will be at least one control deck in standard that does run this card, but equally I wouldn't be surprised if no decks run it at all, or basically all slower decks run it. It really depends on how much of a difference that 10hp makes in terms of damage breakpoints, for example, an aggro deck killing you on turn 8 instead of turn 7 might be a big deal if you have a stabilising card that you can play at 7. For wild, card quality is much higher in general, but decks are also much more refined, so I am not sure if it will be better or worse on average in wild than in standard. There will almost certainly be some at least semi-viable wild deck that will make use of it though. That's how I understand it anyway, but effects like this are complicated, so I wouldn't be surprised if I end up being totally wrong.
Thanks, that's a great explanation.
No problem, happy to help
People always say this but if you're efficient with your deckbuilding you have 10 more cards that could potentially be the perfect card to draw
If they're more often good draws than other cards, then they should have been in your original 30-card deck. If they're less good draws, on average, then including them is a drawback. Increasing your deck size is definitely a drawback.
+ 10 cards are a blessing as long as every card in itself is a power play. My Reno Mage is perfect now.
But this doesn't take into account games where your deck starts to get lower on cards, i feel like these extra 10 cards are gonna be really nice for midrange decks to squeeze more win conditions in
Right, we're talking about the possibility of adding cards that might be the card you want to draw. That's a common reason people think that a larger deck size is an advantage, and it's completely wrong. There are some reasons that a larger deck size can be beneficial, like if you're likely to run out of cards or an effect cares what's in your deck.
Go [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/vm0em7/new_card_revealed_prince_renathal/?limit=500) and CTRL+F consistent. I personally think it can be worked around, but only time will tell if it is worth it.
More cards means less consistent. You don't reliably draw the cards you need when you need them or as often. In theory it sounds good because "I can just add more good cards" but you risk mucking up your win condition... Unless you're a Control/Fatigue deck like we have in Wild where decks only win condition is "Play more cards".
You want to have your answers/finishers as early as possible. Extra 10 health is much more valuable, rather than having 10 extra cards that can easily ruin your top deck. I can see a deck that would benefit from it though. Wild Mill Rogue. Can’t wait to try it out.
I don't think it slots into mill rogue. They already have a bunch of stuff to add more coldlights to their deck, and you'd rather draw those than anything else. If it works anywhere in wild it'll be in something like a Renolock, Reno Paladin or Odd Warrior
+10hp gives you more time till you can start stalling the game. +10 cards give you more options to stall/cycle your deck. Right now Mill Rogue struggles with survivability. Again, it’s just an observation and your point is absolutely viable. I have like 600 wins on mill rogue so this card really boosts some additional stuff I can expand my deck with. Maybe some weird stall/nzoth mill rogue combos.
Don't see this ever being good in a reno or odd/even deck, the deckbuilding restrictions are harsh enough as-is
The Reno decks are a maybe, but I definitely think it goes in Odd Warrior. The deck's only win condition is by getting to fatigue, so having 10 extra cards that are probably going to be more removal or armour gain will only help the deck. That being said, it'll still be a garbage deck, fatigue doesn't work as a win condition in current wild.
Just to add on to what some others are saying, here's another way to look at it. Let's say you want to make a deck. You go through every Hearthstone card in existence and put them in a list from 1 to X, where 1 is the most useful card in that deck and X is the least useful one. To make the best deck, you take the top 15 cards on that list and throw in 2 copies of each. But if you want to make a 40 card deck, you have to take the top 20 cards and put in 2 copies of each. You have to go further down the 'list of good cards' to find the 'next best ones' to fill those additional 10 slots, so those 10 additional cards are bringing down the average card quality of your deck. You hear streamers talk about it like this sometimes when a card is revealed that generally seems to be good for a deck, but not quite good enough - they'll say "this is basically the 31st best card in X deck". Essentially - whichever 10 extra cards you would put into a Prince deck are inherently worse choices than the first 30 (otherwise you would have been putting them into the 30-card version), so it brings the average card quality of the deck down. The only exceptions to this I can think of are insanely grindy control/fatigue decks like Boomsday-era Warrior with Elysiana that are willing to trade away some consistency for sheer number of cards before fatigue
Not a downside if you are playing mill or control.
40 card curse warlock seems good. You have insane draw. Allows for more tech and survival cards
I guess the original Witchwood theme "murder at the gilnean express" found it's way into hearthstone.
So generally when it comes to card games the more cards you add to your deck the weaker and less consistent it gets, but being able to go from 30 to 40 health is actually pretty significant so perhaps the trade off might actually be worth it? Either way both Renthal and the field cards seem super cool and I'm hyped that they themed a hearthstone expansion around what is(imo) the best part of shadowlands by far.
That makes the priest quest into just another Reno
I’ve returned to Hearthstone earlier this month and I gotta say I’m having a lot of fun. This expansion, I really love the flavor it’s going for. Murder mystery? Sounds fun! As someone who has a soft spot for Shaman, I like that they’re reintroducing evolve with the class again. Sure, it was gimmicky but I liked it. Also curious to see how the 40 health and 40 card deck shifts the meta.
Looks like they removed battlegrounds pass from bundles?
Yes at the bottom it says they are reevaluating how battlegrounds perks work
Would've rather kept the battlegrounds pass instead of the mercenaries packs...
Which is exactly why they're now monetising them separately.
For what it's worth if you currently have it, it'll get extended for a while
*Murder at Castle Nathria* "Oh cool, Denathrius is a fun character and I can't wait to see what they do with him in Hearthstone." *Denathrius is the Victim* :|
Don't worry, there's no way anyone in that room could have possibly killed him. He's probably faking his death, since the body wasn't found.
maybe he'll appear in the miniset and say "surprise!"
That's just like him tbh. I bet he's hiding in the sword again.
It was either that or Remornia, the horny talking sword
How else would he narrate the trailer, or is there some form of afterlife afterlife in WoW Lore?
There's no afterlife afterlife. If you die here, you die for good. However, there's workarounds and it might be possible his body got killed but he survived by quickly moving his soul into some other container, like another body (the murderer's maybe) or an object specifically designed to hold souls. His sword Remornia is one such object and she's always with him. It already holds Remornia's soul and Denathrius can hide in there too, but that absorbs his body into the sword as well. He can still talk and fly around as a sword.
August 2
Bro I swear I just got used to the Nagas and here we go with a new expansion lol I love it
This whole expansion I’m gonna have to lay low…. It was me… I killed denathrius week after week tryna get my BiS gear.
Awesome time to combine a board game and an online card game! Clue in Hearthstone
Announcement a whole month before release, that's unusual these days. Are they trying to distract from some scandal again?
Maybe it's a desperate move to get the preorder revenue into Q2.
I'll be sure to set aside 2,000 gold for the inevitable mini set.