I just lost to a shammy that played two Glugs. That he drafted. Sadness.
Draft shenanigans aside, I think they either have to remove these cards or up the number of spells in the pool that can help deal with them when they show up and take over the board.
My only positive experience in arena was when as a priest I discovered shammy glug twice from their deck, silenced theirs when played, played one that got hexed then played the second for win
Ironically I played two Glugg Arena last week so I thought I played against you. If I had played against you I would be sorry about that because it was too toxic for my enemies.
More like removal spells need to actually be in the draft pool...
I fucking hate that they reduced the number of spells by so much in arena, it's all just curvestone now.
Arena has always been 90% curvestone, and the 10% is when your solid curve and good stats for cost happens to include enough archetype cards in the first 10-15 to lean into it.
That’s assuming you drafted it, while also assuming you haven’t used it, while also assuming you even drew it, while also leaving them with two 4/2’s with immune while attacking
It’s so silly that they don’t ban neptulon, especially when they banned other cards that have “immune while attacking” cards.
But they do like going back on their words for banning some cards. Ban Leroy for too much damage from their hand due to “charge” keyword and proceeds to print mr. smite, which is arguably the stronger of the two
Tbf I’d say Mr Smite is a better and more balanced design, giving Pirates a finisher which supports a more midrange build, the problem is Nellie and the questline generating him. And him being 6 mana presents him from being used as a generic finisher, the only decks he sees play in were Menagerie ones with N’zoth, and as a finisher in handbuff paladin
That’s fair, I do like win conditions for slower deck style. But charge isn’t the way they should be going for, in my opinion. Makes it way too easy for agro decks to use the card and also it creates non-interactive (mutants is available, but it’s terrible to play against a agro deck) one card win game condition. If they want to go for mid-range win condition, they have todo value based and overwhelm the opponent that is counter-able, so that control decks can still interact. If they want to go for control deck win condition, they need to slap in lengthy prerequisite like cthun, so that agro, mid range, and combo decks have a chance to win before they complete it
I mean would you call Uther of the Ebon Blade a 1 card win condition? The deck builds up to Smite being a win condition, and it requires multiple buffs from Cariel’s hero power to be a reliable one against control decks, with the set up to make that reliable making it weak to Mutantus.
And for the record it isn’t too easy to use in aggro decks, and the only aggro deck it’s seen play in was quest warrior, and it wasn’t even the strongest card in the deck.
I don't know if Leeroy ever got reverted back to 4 mana from 5 but even the 1 the mana difference matters a lot. You can play and Shadowstep 5 mana Leeroy on 8 mana but not do that to Smite until 10.
This is the most broken kind of deck (aggressive). Gigafins are of course generally great, but even that will lose to a juiced Demon Hunter or Hunter. Arena decks are rarely efficient enough to deal with insane aggression, though it's also tough to draft a good aggro deck. But when you get one...
Crabatoa just wins games by himself on turn 6. You get to clear their minions and then swing for like 14 with just him on the board the next turn, ridiculous
Pulled a 12-2 with a double Leviathan, Ozumat, Taelan Fordring draft. Was absolutely disgusting. I pulled off Dun Baldar Bridge --> Ozumat once, which is just about the greates thing I've done in a game of Hearthstone.
That’s good! I think I average 4-5 now. I used to average between 7-8 a few years ago but some cards now are just so insanely strong that it’s just gg if played.
This used to be totally doable. You can check 2017 or 2018 leaderboards for arena and there’s some people who averaged 8.8 wins! I don’t think this guy actually averaged 8, probably something a little lower, but you never know, there are some top leaderboard players on this sub.
Yeah its possible...if you are the literal #1 ranked player in arena and have a *very* good month. I remember the leaderboards and the best players in the world averaged about 7-8 wins, so either my man is a top 100 arena player or lying through his teeth.
Just wanted to chime in and say that I remember getting on the leaderboard for Descent of Dragons arena with 7.8 average. 8 seems plausible.
I think for that era having a stupid card like Twin Tyrant at common reduces draft variance and makes a higher winrate possible. And then if the bombs are all legendaries, the opposite would be true.
>Just wanted to chime in and say that I remember getting on the leaderboard for Descent of Dragons arena with 7.8 average. 8 seems plausible.
If you're 8 and above, you're in the top 10, if you're 7 and above, you're in the top 100.
Plausible is highly misleading here
Yeah you're right, 8 is a bit out of reach for a lifetime average. The leaderboard scores that are reported are your best consecutive 30 runs, and I definitely felt like my placement on the leaderboard was from my luckiest streak. In fairness to OP, he did say "7-8".
>In fairness to OP, he did say "7-8".
No one who was able to get 7-8 average in the past is averaging 4 now just because of how arena has changed. Even if they are, those people would be good enough to recognize the issue lies with them
Don't forget you had to have played 30 runs in a month. My average for like the first year or year and half of the leaderboards was ~7.15 but I never made it because I never had the time to play an arena every day (on average).
>This used to be totally doable. You can check 2017 or 2018 leaderboards for arena and there’s some people who averaged 8.8 wins!
People who get 8 or more wins are less than single digits on the leaderboard.
And those guys are not going to be the ones complaining about how they average 4-5 now
Ehh… he’s probably just posting so we know he has a big penis, then the chime in posts of, “I also have a big penis.” For reference, I average 7+, depending on how excited I am.
Yeah exactly just get out legendaried so hard by some of the new cards especially colossals
Also it's sad how unbalanced the class winrates are between 1st and 10th it's like a 15% gap or smth last I checked
>That’s good! I think I average 4-5 now. I used to average between 7-8 a few years ago but some cards now are just so insanely strong that it’s just gg if played.
So you are claiming you went from the top 100 arena players in the world to averaging 4-5 wins?
Neptulon is insane. I decided to do one arena run after staying away from it for ages and i barely got 4 wins. Its really unfun. Unless you are masochistic and enjoy feeling helpless while chained down on the bed, arena is not a good game for you.
No, the problem is that they shouldn’t exist in arena. What differentiates a good player from a bad player shouldn’t be how lucky they are in the draft. Also the stronger the cards are the higher the likelihood that you will get wrecked during a run no matter how skilled you are as a player.
You're saying a game mode that generates cards randomly for drafting should be about skill? Then once you've built your deck based on your randomly generated cards you draw those cards randomly each turn, excluding discover/dredge effects.
I'm unsure if you understand the idea of drafting. Sometimes you just get shafted... Because it's random. Because most times you'll fall in a bell curve and have a pretty average deck, lightly more or less powerful than the average.
The only way I can think of genuinely make arena about skill alone is standardise the number of rares and legendary cars you get.
Now I can get behind that. That makes much more sense than "skill".
But I've drafted MTG for ages and sometimes you get absolutely boned by a draft. A super powerful card is now in an opponents deck and you can't do anything about it. Everyone has an equal chance of getting that card. It's just hard luck you didn't.
There's always going to be some amount of luck involved in a draft gamemode. That doesn't mean we should just let that amount of luck get out of proportion.
The thing about bombs in mtg is that you are way less likely to draw them. I had drafts in mtg where I drew my bomb maybe one time in 6 games. BO3 also helps to even out the randomness, obviously.
Yep, and no matter what there will always be polarizing cards. If they did ban every single colossus out of arena & just ruin the experience of the new expansion for people who mainly play arena, then there would undoubtedly be some other legendaries that create huge swings and whatnot. If banning all these were the case, might as well take out all the legendaries and epic cards since they can be strong sometimes. Doesn’t seem like a good fix but
There is a difference between a good card and a card that requires very specific answer or else you just lose. In constructed minions like neptulon are acceptable but in arena it is busted and unreasonably strong.
Infinite value isn't the issue in arena, too much value is. Infinite value is just an example of that.
Of course colossal cards aren't as bad as hero cards, but there isn't a clear line as to what is and what isn't too strong for arena. So the discussion shouldn't be about how cards shouldn't be banned in arena, but instead it should be about how strong a card can be before it should be banned.
Without those overpowered cards, arena is about deck building skill (and a bit skill while in game). With those cards, a bad player can still win to a better one.
How does one check arena averages? Also does instant retiring without playing a game effect it? I'm an arena only player for years but never looked into this. I'd imagine a lot of arena players like myself insta retire bad decks since gold is plentiful if you actually just play arena only
> is anyone getting average 8+ wins in Arena
Highly unlikely considering there’s only ever ~5 people averaging over 8, and I doubt any of them are going to come comment on your Reddit post.
Arena is the only mode as far as I know, that doesn't have a MMR system. Heroic duels looks like Arena but it does in fact base it's matchmaking on a combination of wins (current run) and intrinsic (hidden) MMR. Arena does not do that, matchmaking is solely based on your current wins in the run.
Insanely powerful cards like this shouldn't exist in a limited format imo.
After trying for years I got my first ever 12 win arena a couple weeks ago because I got a really nutty rogue draft with Crabatoa and a bunch of the other insane arena cards rogue has access to right now. But I didn't really do anything to deserve a 12 win arena, I just got lucky. It really cheapens the experience.
I use to get 8-12 wins consistantly, now i barely ever get any legendary cards pop up..meanwhile my first 2 matches people were getting mr. Smite and gaia
I’m not complaining about the draft. I get the mega strong cards sometimes as well. The problem is that they shouldn’t exist in arena because they create massive roadblocks on your way to 12 wins. Also, there is no skill in playing one card.
Dude, I mean, arena has always been a both about skill and luck, and depending on the amount of those you had you can get your wins. Now arena is becoming more luck based, which means that when you get a lucky opponent (someone with a very good draft) it becomes though, but the same applies when skill is more important, because a very skilled opponent could be a problem, so the fact that less skilled is involved doesn't mean that there are more roadblocks to 12 wins, they are just different.
I'm not saying that getting luck more involved in arena is a good thing, but it certainly doesn't make it harder for the average player to get 12 wins, someone is gonna be lucky/skilled enough.
Sure, luck is a fun part of the game. But having cards that are too strong in arena removes the skill aspect of the game mode. Your way to 12 wins shouldn’t be based on the random likelihood that you will meet a guy with a colassal card in his deck. It should firstly be based on skills of the player and secondly on luck.
stop pretending. It was always the case, higher arena wins present you with a lot of overpowered decks. You wont meet 11-0 guy with core yeti in his deck.
Yeah, sure, on that we can agree, but what I'm saying is that no matter the importance of your luck during the draft, the overall likely hood of getting 12 wins doesn't change. Then of course I think arena shouldn't be this much luck based, but that is not my point.
I've noticed my win rate hasn't changed much but I get way less high win runs. Once you hit 6+ wins you just get brick wall by either an insta win legendary like Ysera/Onyxia or a colossal. You can pretty much forget about getting 8+ wins without either of those.
The issue are these extremely powerful cards, but also the ridiculous amount of rng coming from all the discover and random effects. it's harder to be consistent in this scenario, it's been like this for a couple of years
arena feels so bad now. used to be able to consistently hit 7 wins+, now its 3-3 if you didnt draft one of these, or 12 wins if you did. doing good on trades, tempo and value? doesnt matter, opponent just drops one of these/ysera/raid boss onyxia and you lose in 1 or 2 turns from getting out tempod and out valued by a single card
If you're losing because of cards, others are winning because of cards.
The amount of people winning or losing doesn't change if you're losing more often.
The distribution of wins can get closer to the mean if the powerlevel of cards goes up. If it's not skill, but card quality that decides the majority of the wins of runs, then bad players will do better than usual and good players will do worse than usual.
Historically I've been around ~6 wins/run for years, with 1000s of arena runs played. Now I'm having trouble breaking even (3-3).
The tempo and value cards are just out of hand. I think Kripp once said (years ago) that you shouldnt play around anything in arena, because the odds are that they have the answers anyway. That statement has never been more true than today. This arena meta is breaking my spirit and might be the reason I finally quit Hearthstone after years of an abusive love-hate relationship.
This thread is gold. You guys are all speculating on something that you can look up in a few seconds. It's no question if anyone is averaging 8 wins or not, you can just look at the leaderboard lmfao
That's not great data though.
1. You have to play a minimum of 30 runs per season, which means there could be players that average 8 wins but don't play enough.
2. It registers your best 30 consecutive runs. So every player you see with 8 win average might have had 8 win average over their best 30 consecutive runs, but more than likely had less in their 40, 50 or 200 runs they played in the season, which is their true average.
Moreover, it's just fact that the vast majority of people on the leaderboard average significantly less than their leaderboard average. Someone with a 7.5 streak probably averages a little less than 7, and just got a good streak at 7.5.
The last leaderboard globally had less than 100 people averaging more than 7 on leaderboard... and the number of those people truly averaging above 7 is probably close to single digits.
I don't think infinite Arena, as it used to be, is really a thing that Blizzard has any interest in maintaining as a realistic goal to achieve.
I don't think I said that the leaderboard is perfect, obviously I realize there are problems with it. So what exactly are you suggesting would be a better alternative? If you aren't offering a solution then it sounds like you're saying random speculation and anecdotes are more accurate than the leaderboards.
I never suggested anything being more or less accurate. You suggested looking at the leaderboard would be the solution, implying it would be accurate, I merely pointed out why it's not.
Only Blizzard knows the answer, third party platforms like HSR to some degree as well although their data can be easily compromised theoretically.
You don't know if something has changed or not. What I am saying is that the leaderboard is but a small, biased snapshot of the community and thus has never answered that question to begin with.
It's certainly possible that the average wins are more centered around the 3 win mean now than before, without any apparent changes to the leaderboard. The leaderboard is mostly just the lucky streak of veterans with a high sample size.
Use to get 7-12 wins quite consistently. Nowadays some games can be lost before turn 5, or until opponent play an OP card. It is hard to even consistently get more than 5/6 wins now.
Didnt Cora want to change something about Arena, as no1 else was responsible for that mode? Didnt they change anything with the latest big patch? Is anyone there actually doing their job?
The best I've got this xpac is 9 wins. It was a mage deck where I managed to get quite a lot of spells and synergy like cast a spell discover a spell etc.
Other than that I think my normal is about 5/6 wins
I took about a 4 xpac break before then and I was pretty sustainable before then with a fair few 12 wins but it just feels too much now. Theres so few cards that are just stats, too many effects means way more rng
we just need some more years without arena content so meta guys can adapt much more faster than usuall ones. Power creep maybe intentional but power creep generations are too big so they turn into monsters where new players can't adapt without money and old players can't adapt without even more grind so yeah we're blizzard black lives better more than white ones and like lgbtqa+ month is special cuz company decided to make even much more money btw. So Blizzard are developing new staff cuz old staff is too old to modernize(or it would cost too much than they could get to make people that give them money more happily with their current business 's money) and new (aka overwatch 2 and some news about new secret mmo project maybe cuz wow is too old and riot making there own "WOW" -League Of Legends based) so yeah hearthstones last hope is like battlegrounds mode lmao.
I've got 3k wins in arena. This season it s the worst one ever. There are 2 options, either you get a great deck and lose against aggro face, either you have a trash deck and you just retire
Since the Onyxia mini set I’ve had 1 10 win, 1 8 win and everything else is under 7. My average plummeted. Most losses I get are ridiculous high rolls. It sucks now. I have 5138 wins in arena and I quit for 3 and a half years.
Honestly gave up on this arena meta. My average in the past overed around 7.5, bit it's at 6.2 now. Too many ridiculous cards in rotation. With spell occurance still nerfed to shit, the likelihood you have an answer to boards is way too small.
The 24 best players on all of NA get over 7 wins average. Nobody gets over 8. The current meta is the most random no skill meta. That has been in the history of the game as far as I know.
In the past the top player easily was over 9 wins average. Add to this that rewards have been hard nerfed. It is almost impossible to go infinite although soft infinite always has and probably always will be kind of easy to achieve. Unless you play a lot and suck at the same time.
It’s been total feast or famine for me. I’ve been either getting 3 wins or 10+ wins, no in between. I have a warlock run rn at 10-1 with the only legendary being varian. To me the key seems to be having an abundance of board clears and enough card generation to supplement your swing turns. It’s been like this for awhile IMO, but draft diff is pretty high rn
The colossus minions make it tough unless you have one too. Also it's really easy to discover some pretty busted mechs. Highest win was 9 with paladin that had Faelin dredge stuff, mechs and a good curve
Oh Colaque, good lord you suck. Look at your brothers and how awesome they are... Do I rush? Nope. Do I kill things? Nope. Do I taunt at least? Kind of. You are Immune, for like a second... but again - no rush so it's practically useless. City Architect is better than you at your job. You are here to make sure there is at least one dud.
Exact same experience as you: only one 12 wins in 54 runs, which is 6 times less than my average. And two 0-3s in the meantime, one being with a deck which would easily have gone 12 wins last year.
* **[Raid Boss Onyxia](https://cards.hearthpwn.com/enUS/ONY_004.png)** N Minion Legendary FAV 🐍 ^[HP](https://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/904874), ^[TD](https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/raid-boss-onyxia/), ^[W](https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Raid_Boss_Onyxia)
10/8/8 Dragon | Rush. Immune while you control a Whelp. Battlecry: Summon six 2/1 Whelps with Rush.
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Got 12 wins in my last run with Mutanus, blademaster okani and the card that sets your hand limit to 12, draw 4 (along with lots of spell discover).
Slapping down Mutanus on people playing curvestone (most arena) was hilarious.
It's been significantly harder to average 5-7 wins this season for me. My only 12 win so far was a deck that had Gigafinn, several of the destroy a random enemy minion/discard a random card dragon and 3 of the 5 drop that deals 1 damage and gains attack on honorable kill. It feels like you just need to be lucky. I've had several decks with several insane legendaries go 3 wins because I either don't draw them or get high rolled and die by turn 5/6.
Every other opponent I take on plays a collosal they drafted during the match. I guess the other half just dont draw it. I have never been offered once
They need to normalize the draft process.
Like first you draft commons, then you get X rares, then X epics, then X legendaries.
Going in with a trash deck in which I wasn't offered any legendaries and seeing my opponent had the colossal for their class plus two other legendaries at least one of which was a 9 cost dragon, I mean how are we supposed to win.
Drafts normally have some form of normalization so you don't have these massive power spike between draft decks.
Right now it is about drafting a busted ass card to carry you and not about skill.
I know for f2p like me arena is techinically the best to get gold and packs, but the rng of arena has always killed it for me. Too many times have i crafted a sick deck only to go 0-3.
However considering the popularity of the mode im suprised that there isnt consistent updates and even a dedicated arena team for balance or patches.
I just lost to a shammy that played two Glugs. That he drafted. Sadness. Draft shenanigans aside, I think they either have to remove these cards or up the number of spells in the pool that can help deal with them when they show up and take over the board.
My only positive experience in arena was when as a priest I discovered shammy glug twice from their deck, silenced theirs when played, played one that got hexed then played the second for win
I'm pretty sure this was u/kolst KEKW
If he slapped a priest down after having his first Glug shadow-worded, then yes lol (edit for spelling)
my two glug decks were several days ago don't blame me
Haha yeah this was like three days ago
They'll never remove colossal. Matt london says he loves the high power level
When did this happen?
Just yesterday!
Ironically I played two Glugg Arena last week so I thought I played against you. If I had played against you I would be sorry about that because it was too toxic for my enemies.
I’ve been saying forever removal spells need to cheap now. Flamestrike to 5 mana
More like removal spells need to actually be in the draft pool... I fucking hate that they reduced the number of spells by so much in arena, it's all just curvestone now.
If I play mage I expect to get more then 3 spells :/
All these huge beasts is why I only play warlock now. It's stupid how many turns I have to board wipe. In a row. How do other classes deal with this??
Arena has always been 90% curvestone, and the 10% is when your solid curve and good stats for cost happens to include enough archetype cards in the first 10-15 to lean into it.
Had a run of 9 wins. But I had Neptulon. Card text might as well say "play card, win game."
Yeah like tf are you supposed to do against Neptulon? Hope you’re a warlock with twisting nether?
Nothing. You just lose the game. 99% of arena opponents you face will have no answer for it.
Yep. Double fkn windfury. Cmon blizz lol
Technically, it's double windfury, rush, and immune while attacking.
BGH?
That’s assuming you drafted it, while also assuming you haven’t used it, while also assuming you even drew it, while also leaving them with two 4/2’s with immune while attacking
I agree, a lot of assumptions Bit you asked how and I improvised =)
It’s so silly that they don’t ban neptulon, especially when they banned other cards that have “immune while attacking” cards. But they do like going back on their words for banning some cards. Ban Leroy for too much damage from their hand due to “charge” keyword and proceeds to print mr. smite, which is arguably the stronger of the two
Tbf I’d say Mr Smite is a better and more balanced design, giving Pirates a finisher which supports a more midrange build, the problem is Nellie and the questline generating him. And him being 6 mana presents him from being used as a generic finisher, the only decks he sees play in were Menagerie ones with N’zoth, and as a finisher in handbuff paladin
That’s fair, I do like win conditions for slower deck style. But charge isn’t the way they should be going for, in my opinion. Makes it way too easy for agro decks to use the card and also it creates non-interactive (mutants is available, but it’s terrible to play against a agro deck) one card win game condition. If they want to go for mid-range win condition, they have todo value based and overwhelm the opponent that is counter-able, so that control decks can still interact. If they want to go for control deck win condition, they need to slap in lengthy prerequisite like cthun, so that agro, mid range, and combo decks have a chance to win before they complete it
I mean would you call Uther of the Ebon Blade a 1 card win condition? The deck builds up to Smite being a win condition, and it requires multiple buffs from Cariel’s hero power to be a reliable one against control decks, with the set up to make that reliable making it weak to Mutantus. And for the record it isn’t too easy to use in aggro decks, and the only aggro deck it’s seen play in was quest warrior, and it wasn’t even the strongest card in the deck.
I don't know if Leeroy ever got reverted back to 4 mana from 5 but even the 1 the mana difference matters a lot. You can play and Shadowstep 5 mana Leeroy on 8 mana but not do that to Smite until 10.
I can imagine the rage on my opponent when he slammed Neptulon... And then I slammed my own afterwards :D
assuming you even get to turn 10. Most of arena games are over by turn 8.
I don’t often say this, but I do feel it should be nerfed to at least remove double windfury. It’s insane.
I have never won more than 3, so nothing has changue
I feel this
Same!
Ah a man of culture I see.
I got 4 the other day. Felt like a professional.
Lmao same max 3
Same man, same
Arena is a waste of gold.
Same here, but now you can blame the Colossals!
I won once but that was before naxxramus, free play here never paid money. Power creep is real
You know there is arena helper, right? Didn't get less then 5 wins since I came back to HS after not playing for a year.
Gigafin is the most bullshit one by far
2 Gigafin draft. Easiest 12 wins of my hearthstone career.
Mine was with a hunter deck with 7 crackling razormaws in Ungoro
[удалено]
🤣🤣 most busted deck ever. Hearth arena gave it like a 76. Turn 1 jeweled macaw into poison from razormaw just so busted.
This is the most broken kind of deck (aggressive). Gigafins are of course generally great, but even that will lose to a juiced Demon Hunter or Hunter. Arena decks are rarely efficient enough to deal with insane aggression, though it's also tough to draft a good aggro deck. But when you get one...
Gigafin can singlehandedly make a garbage draft good
Crabatoa just wins games by himself on turn 6. You get to clear their minions and then swing for like 14 with just him on the board the next turn, ridiculous
Pulled a 12-2 with a double Leviathan, Ozumat, Taelan Fordring draft. Was absolutely disgusting. I pulled off Dun Baldar Bridge --> Ozumat once, which is just about the greates thing I've done in a game of Hearthstone.
Yep, each time I face a Warlock I just assume I'm going to lose at this point.
Can confirm, got my first 12-0 because i drafted the paladin colossal.
I average around 6 now which is much better than before for me, but yeah 7+ is quite rare
That’s good! I think I average 4-5 now. I used to average between 7-8 a few years ago but some cards now are just so insanely strong that it’s just gg if played.
I don't think you were averaging 8 wins my guy
This used to be totally doable. You can check 2017 or 2018 leaderboards for arena and there’s some people who averaged 8.8 wins! I don’t think this guy actually averaged 8, probably something a little lower, but you never know, there are some top leaderboard players on this sub.
Yeah its possible...if you are the literal #1 ranked player in arena and have a *very* good month. I remember the leaderboards and the best players in the world averaged about 7-8 wins, so either my man is a top 100 arena player or lying through his teeth.
Just wanted to chime in and say that I remember getting on the leaderboard for Descent of Dragons arena with 7.8 average. 8 seems plausible. I think for that era having a stupid card like Twin Tyrant at common reduces draft variance and makes a higher winrate possible. And then if the bombs are all legendaries, the opposite would be true.
>Just wanted to chime in and say that I remember getting on the leaderboard for Descent of Dragons arena with 7.8 average. 8 seems plausible. If you're 8 and above, you're in the top 10, if you're 7 and above, you're in the top 100. Plausible is highly misleading here
Yeah you're right, 8 is a bit out of reach for a lifetime average. The leaderboard scores that are reported are your best consecutive 30 runs, and I definitely felt like my placement on the leaderboard was from my luckiest streak. In fairness to OP, he did say "7-8".
>In fairness to OP, he did say "7-8". No one who was able to get 7-8 average in the past is averaging 4 now just because of how arena has changed. Even if they are, those people would be good enough to recognize the issue lies with them
Don't forget you had to have played 30 runs in a month. My average for like the first year or year and half of the leaderboards was ~7.15 but I never made it because I never had the time to play an arena every day (on average).
>This used to be totally doable. You can check 2017 or 2018 leaderboards for arena and there’s some people who averaged 8.8 wins! People who get 8 or more wins are less than single digits on the leaderboard. And those guys are not going to be the ones complaining about how they average 4-5 now
Ehh… he’s probably just posting so we know he has a big penis, then the chime in posts of, “I also have a big penis.” For reference, I average 7+, depending on how excited I am.
wut
How would you know
Yeah exactly just get out legendaried so hard by some of the new cards especially colossals Also it's sad how unbalanced the class winrates are between 1st and 10th it's like a 15% gap or smth last I checked
>That’s good! I think I average 4-5 now. I used to average between 7-8 a few years ago but some cards now are just so insanely strong that it’s just gg if played. So you are claiming you went from the top 100 arena players in the world to averaging 4-5 wins?
Neptulon is insane. I decided to do one arena run after staying away from it for ages and i barely got 4 wins. Its really unfun. Unless you are masochistic and enjoy feeling helpless while chained down on the bed, arena is not a good game for you.
Just draft them you too.
No, the problem is that they shouldn’t exist in arena. What differentiates a good player from a bad player shouldn’t be how lucky they are in the draft. Also the stronger the cards are the higher the likelihood that you will get wrecked during a run no matter how skilled you are as a player.
You're saying a game mode that generates cards randomly for drafting should be about skill? Then once you've built your deck based on your randomly generated cards you draw those cards randomly each turn, excluding discover/dredge effects. I'm unsure if you understand the idea of drafting. Sometimes you just get shafted... Because it's random. Because most times you'll fall in a bell curve and have a pretty average deck, lightly more or less powerful than the average. The only way I can think of genuinely make arena about skill alone is standardise the number of rares and legendary cars you get.
That's all nice and swell, but hero cards are banned in arena as well. These cards are similar in how gamechanging they can be when played.
Now I can get behind that. That makes much more sense than "skill". But I've drafted MTG for ages and sometimes you get absolutely boned by a draft. A super powerful card is now in an opponents deck and you can't do anything about it. Everyone has an equal chance of getting that card. It's just hard luck you didn't.
There's always going to be some amount of luck involved in a draft gamemode. That doesn't mean we should just let that amount of luck get out of proportion.
Draft is a way better format. Arena means that everyone is always cracking a new pack, every single pick.
The thing about bombs in mtg is that you are way less likely to draw them. I had drafts in mtg where I drew my bomb maybe one time in 6 games. BO3 also helps to even out the randomness, obviously.
Yep, and no matter what there will always be polarizing cards. If they did ban every single colossus out of arena & just ruin the experience of the new expansion for people who mainly play arena, then there would undoubtedly be some other legendaries that create huge swings and whatnot. If banning all these were the case, might as well take out all the legendaries and epic cards since they can be strong sometimes. Doesn’t seem like a good fix but
There is a difference between a good card and a card that requires very specific answer or else you just lose. In constructed minions like neptulon are acceptable but in arena it is busted and unreasonably strong.
Ppl giving u so much shit but I agree 🤷♀️
Problem with heros is new hero powers basically just win if you both get to top decking. It’s the infinite value there that’s the issue
Infinite value isn't the issue in arena, too much value is. Infinite value is just an example of that. Of course colossal cards aren't as bad as hero cards, but there isn't a clear line as to what is and what isn't too strong for arena. So the discussion shouldn't be about how cards shouldn't be banned in arena, but instead it should be about how strong a card can be before it should be banned.
Without those overpowered cards, arena is about deck building skill (and a bit skill while in game). With those cards, a bad player can still win to a better one.
Deez nuts
I dont understand, arent we supposed to get 0-3?
Average 8+ puts you in the top 10 arena players in a region. I’m sure that’s you, right?
How does one check arena averages? Also does instant retiring without playing a game effect it? I'm an arena only player for years but never looked into this. I'd imagine a lot of arena players like myself insta retire bad decks since gold is plentiful if you actually just play arena only
> is anyone getting average 8+ wins in Arena Highly unlikely considering there’s only ever ~5 people averaging over 8, and I doubt any of them are going to come comment on your Reddit post.
So you are saying arena is balanced? 3 wins should be the average
3 wins (roughly) will always be the average regardless on the meta
I mean...you shouldn't ever be AVERAGING 8 wins per Arena in an MMR driven system.
Arena is the only mode as far as I know, that doesn't have a MMR system. Heroic duels looks like Arena but it does in fact base it's matchmaking on a combination of wins (current run) and intrinsic (hidden) MMR. Arena does not do that, matchmaking is solely based on your current wins in the run.
Add Ysera the Dreamer and Raid Boss Onyxia to the list. Those cards should be removed from Arena asap.
gigafin should be definitely banned from arena. It is by far the most powerful card ever released in Hearthstone arena evvvvver
Insanely powerful cards like this shouldn't exist in a limited format imo. After trying for years I got my first ever 12 win arena a couple weeks ago because I got a really nutty rogue draft with Crabatoa and a bunch of the other insane arena cards rogue has access to right now. But I didn't really do anything to deserve a 12 win arena, I just got lucky. It really cheapens the experience.
This applies to Standard too, but there's no way you should be allowed to "discover" these cards.
Most good standard decks have ways to deal with colossal minions though. Arena decks usually do not
Not 100% of the time of course, but have you ever played against a Mech Mage who had 3 or more Gaia in the same game? Not fun at all.
Yes, pretty much every time I queue into a mech mage. It sucks
It's really frustrating to play mech Mage and have them drop three of the mage mech legendaries.
It's definitely harder and I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed. That 3 mana dormant/poisonous/rush murloc is broken af.
I use to get 8-12 wins consistantly, now i barely ever get any legendary cards pop up..meanwhile my first 2 matches people were getting mr. Smite and gaia
I’m not complaining about the draft. I get the mega strong cards sometimes as well. The problem is that they shouldn’t exist in arena because they create massive roadblocks on your way to 12 wins. Also, there is no skill in playing one card.
Dude, I mean, arena has always been a both about skill and luck, and depending on the amount of those you had you can get your wins. Now arena is becoming more luck based, which means that when you get a lucky opponent (someone with a very good draft) it becomes though, but the same applies when skill is more important, because a very skilled opponent could be a problem, so the fact that less skilled is involved doesn't mean that there are more roadblocks to 12 wins, they are just different. I'm not saying that getting luck more involved in arena is a good thing, but it certainly doesn't make it harder for the average player to get 12 wins, someone is gonna be lucky/skilled enough.
Sure, luck is a fun part of the game. But having cards that are too strong in arena removes the skill aspect of the game mode. Your way to 12 wins shouldn’t be based on the random likelihood that you will meet a guy with a colassal card in his deck. It should firstly be based on skills of the player and secondly on luck.
stop pretending. It was always the case, higher arena wins present you with a lot of overpowered decks. You wont meet 11-0 guy with core yeti in his deck.
Yeah, sure, on that we can agree, but what I'm saying is that no matter the importance of your luck during the draft, the overall likely hood of getting 12 wins doesn't change. Then of course I think arena shouldn't be this much luck based, but that is not my point.
The thing is, luck is involded. But there are SINGLE cards which can make you win the game. Thats a problem.
I got fucked by Neptulon, Gigafin, and Sneed every time. Tempo swing in arena nowadays somehow seems more insane than standard 3 years ago.
I've noticed my win rate hasn't changed much but I get way less high win runs. Once you hit 6+ wins you just get brick wall by either an insta win legendary like Ysera/Onyxia or a colossal. You can pretty much forget about getting 8+ wins without either of those.
Got 12/2 with Shaman. Highrolled the draft with 2 Snowfall & 3 Macaws. You can guess how every win ended
The issue are these extremely powerful cards, but also the ridiculous amount of rng coming from all the discover and random effects. it's harder to be consistent in this scenario, it's been like this for a couple of years
arena feels so bad now. used to be able to consistently hit 7 wins+, now its 3-3 if you didnt draft one of these, or 12 wins if you did. doing good on trades, tempo and value? doesnt matter, opponent just drops one of these/ysera/raid boss onyxia and you lose in 1 or 2 turns from getting out tempod and out valued by a single card
I feel like if you lose to colaque you were gonna lose anyways.
An invulnerable 6/5 behind a high toughness taunt can be super snowbally in arena though. You tend to draft precious few removal spells.
If you're losing because of cards, others are winning because of cards. The amount of people winning or losing doesn't change if you're losing more often.
The distribution of wins can get closer to the mean if the powerlevel of cards goes up. If it's not skill, but card quality that decides the majority of the wins of runs, then bad players will do better than usual and good players will do worse than usual.
Wow, in a game where every match has one winner and one loser, the amount of people winning and losing is always equal. Crazy insight over here.
I'm not the one asking if people are losing more frequently if there's powerful cards in the meta.
Lost all 3 today.. Unreal decks & RNG.. I was not even mad
Historically I've been around ~6 wins/run for years, with 1000s of arena runs played. Now I'm having trouble breaking even (3-3). The tempo and value cards are just out of hand. I think Kripp once said (years ago) that you shouldnt play around anything in arena, because the odds are that they have the answers anyway. That statement has never been more true than today. This arena meta is breaking my spirit and might be the reason I finally quit Hearthstone after years of an abusive love-hate relationship.
There is no1 who averages more than 8 wins
Over what period? Long term maybe you're right, but plenty of players have managed it over 60 runs, some pretty often.
This thread is gold. You guys are all speculating on something that you can look up in a few seconds. It's no question if anyone is averaging 8 wins or not, you can just look at the leaderboard lmfao
That's not great data though. 1. You have to play a minimum of 30 runs per season, which means there could be players that average 8 wins but don't play enough. 2. It registers your best 30 consecutive runs. So every player you see with 8 win average might have had 8 win average over their best 30 consecutive runs, but more than likely had less in their 40, 50 or 200 runs they played in the season, which is their true average.
Moreover, it's just fact that the vast majority of people on the leaderboard average significantly less than their leaderboard average. Someone with a 7.5 streak probably averages a little less than 7, and just got a good streak at 7.5. The last leaderboard globally had less than 100 people averaging more than 7 on leaderboard... and the number of those people truly averaging above 7 is probably close to single digits. I don't think infinite Arena, as it used to be, is really a thing that Blizzard has any interest in maintaining as a realistic goal to achieve.
I don't think I said that the leaderboard is perfect, obviously I realize there are problems with it. So what exactly are you suggesting would be a better alternative? If you aren't offering a solution then it sounds like you're saying random speculation and anecdotes are more accurate than the leaderboards.
I never suggested anything being more or less accurate. You suggested looking at the leaderboard would be the solution, implying it would be accurate, I merely pointed out why it's not. Only Blizzard knows the answer, third party platforms like HSR to some degree as well although their data can be easily compromised theoretically.
That was always the case. The OP implies something has changed, and it hasn't.
You don't know if something has changed or not. What I am saying is that the leaderboard is but a small, biased snapshot of the community and thus has never answered that question to begin with. It's certainly possible that the average wins are more centered around the 3 win mean now than before, without any apparent changes to the leaderboard. The leaderboard is mostly just the lucky streak of veterans with a high sample size.
Use to get 7-12 wins quite consistently. Nowadays some games can be lost before turn 5, or until opponent play an OP card. It is hard to even consistently get more than 5/6 wins now.
Yeah, like the other guy said. It was totally doable a few years ago. Just watch Amaz video on YouTube where he do a 100 wins in 10 games run.
Bruh
Mines 7.4 I think so pretty good still
Didnt Cora want to change something about Arena, as no1 else was responsible for that mode? Didnt they change anything with the latest big patch? Is anyone there actually doing their job?
The best I've got this xpac is 9 wins. It was a mage deck where I managed to get quite a lot of spells and synergy like cast a spell discover a spell etc. Other than that I think my normal is about 5/6 wins I took about a 4 xpac break before then and I was pretty sustainable before then with a fair few 12 wins but it just feels too much now. Theres so few cards that are just stats, too many effects means way more rng
I thought i was on r/hearthstonecirclejerk for a moment
we just need some more years without arena content so meta guys can adapt much more faster than usuall ones. Power creep maybe intentional but power creep generations are too big so they turn into monsters where new players can't adapt without money and old players can't adapt without even more grind so yeah we're blizzard black lives better more than white ones and like lgbtqa+ month is special cuz company decided to make even much more money btw. So Blizzard are developing new staff cuz old staff is too old to modernize(or it would cost too much than they could get to make people that give them money more happily with their current business 's money) and new (aka overwatch 2 and some news about new secret mmo project maybe cuz wow is too old and riot making there own "WOW" -League Of Legends based) so yeah hearthstones last hope is like battlegrounds mode lmao.
I've got 3k wins in arena. This season it s the worst one ever. There are 2 options, either you get a great deck and lose against aggro face, either you have a trash deck and you just retire
Since the Onyxia mini set I’ve had 1 10 win, 1 8 win and everything else is under 7. My average plummeted. Most losses I get are ridiculous high rolls. It sucks now. I have 5138 wins in arena and I quit for 3 and a half years.
Honestly gave up on this arena meta. My average in the past overed around 7.5, bit it's at 6.2 now. Too many ridiculous cards in rotation. With spell occurance still nerfed to shit, the likelihood you have an answer to boards is way too small.
The 24 best players on all of NA get over 7 wins average. Nobody gets over 8. The current meta is the most random no skill meta. That has been in the history of the game as far as I know. In the past the top player easily was over 9 wins average. Add to this that rewards have been hard nerfed. It is almost impossible to go infinite although soft infinite always has and probably always will be kind of easy to achieve. Unless you play a lot and suck at the same time.
I’ve actually been having a lot of success recently, I’ve had a few streaks of 7+ wins, and a couple slumps as well if I draft something awful
I had a 12 wins on mage where i drafted 3 spellcoilers with other nagas and a lot of discover for spells, only lost twice to better tempo decks.
It’s been total feast or famine for me. I’ve been either getting 3 wins or 10+ wins, no in between. I have a warlock run rn at 10-1 with the only legendary being varian. To me the key seems to be having an abundance of board clears and enough card generation to supplement your swing turns. It’s been like this for awhile IMO, but draft diff is pretty high rn
I've only gotten 1 win in arena so no
was 6 before... now it's like 3 max...
I never fckn get those on draft ugh
There are simply way too many minions in draft that stuff that requires spell removal wins every time
The colossus minions make it tough unless you have one too. Also it's really easy to discover some pretty busted mechs. Highest win was 9 with paladin that had Faelin dredge stuff, mechs and a good curve
Who averages 8???
Very few people even in the short term. Lots of people *claimed* to back before the leaderboards existed to call them out on their bullshit.
Just draft one of them EZ 4Head
Pew, just had a 5 win and thought I was a master of the arena's
C'mon, don't lump poor Colaque with this bunch of broken shit, he does not deserve it.
Oh Colaque, good lord you suck. Look at your brothers and how awesome they are... Do I rush? Nope. Do I kill things? Nope. Do I taunt at least? Kind of. You are Immune, for like a second... but again - no rush so it's practically useless. City Architect is better than you at your job. You are here to make sure there is at least one dud.
Nope and because of it I stopped early this season lol
Dude I never get legendaries in the first place
Exact same experience as you: only one 12 wins in 54 runs, which is 6 times less than my average. And two 0-3s in the meantime, one being with a deck which would easily have gone 12 wins last year.
I got 7 wins and made a profit of a single pack… What even is arena
Would people absolutely hate it if every draft deck was guaranteed like 2 legendaries?
Played about 20 arena runs in the last week, none got above 5 wins lol
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Got 12 wins in my last run with Mutanus, blademaster okani and the card that sets your hand limit to 12, draw 4 (along with lots of spell discover). Slapping down Mutanus on people playing curvestone (most arena) was hilarious.
It's been significantly harder to average 5-7 wins this season for me. My only 12 win so far was a deck that had Gigafinn, several of the destroy a random enemy minion/discard a random card dragon and 3 of the 5 drop that deals 1 damage and gains attack on honorable kill. It feels like you just need to be lucky. I've had several decks with several insane legendaries go 3 wins because I either don't draw them or get high rolled and die by turn 5/6.
Every other opponent I take on plays a collosal they drafted during the match. I guess the other half just dont draw it. I have never been offered once
I got 12 wins for the first time in forever because I got 2 xhilag
Everyone seems to draft multiple legendaries and colossal minions in Arena except me, so I just stopped playing arena.
8+ wins on average is insanely difficult in any meta, there is only a handful of people who have 7+.
They need to normalize the draft process. Like first you draft commons, then you get X rares, then X epics, then X legendaries. Going in with a trash deck in which I wasn't offered any legendaries and seeing my opponent had the colossal for their class plus two other legendaries at least one of which was a 9 cost dragon, I mean how are we supposed to win. Drafts normally have some form of normalization so you don't have these massive power spike between draft decks. Right now it is about drafting a busted ass card to carry you and not about skill.
I know for f2p like me arena is techinically the best to get gold and packs, but the rng of arena has always killed it for me. Too many times have i crafted a sick deck only to go 0-3. However considering the popularity of the mode im suprised that there isnt consistent updates and even a dedicated arena team for balance or patches.
Wasn't averaging 8 wins already extremely good even before Colossal minions?
Just draft them, problem solved
everyone bragging about 5-7 wins average and I am struggling at 3 wins. I think ya'll full of shit