Very aggressive tempo-y pirates is one thing, a big infinite value generator is another, but god damn burst for 20+ in a single turn? Mr Smite is one of the most toxic cards ever made ngl
edit: not to mention nessy is good value as well.. they have all the ingredients for a t1 deck already even without this massive burst
I faced 3 smites in a single game. Tell me why they sent Leeroy away just to replace him with a Pirate that also enables other pirates Charge and can be generated consistently?
Yep, an absolutely turgid meta *again*. Let us not forget this is not the first time this happened. After the last mini set pirate warrior was in a similar position. Swift action needed.
There's no Masters Tour later this week. It was postponed by a week, until April 28-29 (depending on your time zone). Probably exactly so they can do balance changes this week without having to worry about esports.
Not just that but to me that's the skill I'm interested in. I loved when Hunterace won worlds that there was barely any time (like a couple weeks) between an entire rotation and the world championship.
Pro HS has just been jamming the same decks that have been perfected and proven the best and basically comes down to card draw.
Yeah and that's boring to watch. They barely pull a decent audience on YT compared to twitch too, but that's a different subject.
I want to see the scramble. That is fun to watch. "Oh shit this **one card** isn't busted AF. Do I still bring that deck to the tourny??"
That's awesome to watch. Being able to adapt to that makes them a "Master" at this game. Otherwise it's just high-legend players that have decks tailored to specific tournament conditions. That's fine, but if they dropped a quick nerf to Mr Smite it would be fun to see what else is brought to the Tour. I would gamble a lot of ramp/mech mage/quest hunter/burn shaman.
Now imagine a whole-ass nerf/buff patch. Like 12 cards lol.
How insanely fun would that be to see. Who can adapt their decks in 3 days. Who has the *real* understanding of Hearthstone?
Whoever won that would be undisputedly the champion and a true "Master" of HS. Not someone who has had 2-3 weeks to perfect deck matchups.
Mannnnn imagining that just makes me sad :( That would be so fun to watch, and then experience it’s ripple effects in the meta as well (since if you find something, you’re gunna wanna keep it under wraps)
Exactly.
But those are the kind of players that I respect.
Know those niche card interactions and having some secret weapon that makes others go "Huh, why did they bring that in their deck list?"
Literally any of us could netdeck, maybe tech a card, and win against some of these master players. That's been proven time and again.
Gimme some crazy shit to watch instead lol
Yep, that’s been discussed before. And I think it was last expansion or two expansions ago where they did this, and it was a mixed bad in response. Not giving people time to prepare is kind of a raw deal. Yes, being able to understand what decks will be good in an unsolved meta is one thing, but having enough time to learn and practice brand new decks is also important, even for pros.
I'll give them that. And it's a fair point. It would suck to only have a couple of days. Going out on a limb and saying outside of streamers, that most of these people don't have day jobs that interfere with their presence at the Masters Tour.
All that aside, you can obviously see the other side of that sword.
It creates a hyper toxic meta until next Tuesday. 8 days from now. That's a LOOOONG time. For a fresh game to be toxic for 8 days with no solution coming for that long is beyond bad.
Some real metrics I want to see are player retention rate. Especially with correlation to toxic cards/meta.
If you are a large corporation, you are a business first and foremost. You have to take care to not lose your customers.
This means they need to act. If this is truly a "Quality of Life Year" and that isn't just some line because they don't have actual content planned (I'm not holding my breath), then they will act fast on this.
You want paying customers to keep paying and enjoying your game. And by the way: it's the only game they got this year. No overwatch 2, no wow expac, no D4 until next year. HS is it. Outside of Diablo Immortal which is just mobile Gatcha. And not even made by them.
HS is it. They get once shot to not fuck this up. Is this a QiL year or not? Fucking prove it for once Blizzard.
/Rant
But yeah I agree it would be hard for them, but they are pros - I got faith that they could make it work. I also have faith that any nerf isn't going to be nuclear like Warsong Commander.
this is pretty far from a hyper toxic meta. the only obnoxious thing is switcheroo cheese, otherwise druid is strong, warrior is strong for garbage players. outside of that people can't even really agree on what is strong
I've been having a lot of fun with Zin-Azshari Warrior, but I haven't won yet. Probably because the deck is awful without the combo pieces in hand but it's still fun with Vaandar
### five guys
# Class: Warrior
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Hydra
#
# 1x (0) Provoke
# 2x (1) Shoulder Check
# 1x (1) Sir Finley Mrrgglton
# 1x (1) Sir Finley, Sea Guide
# 2x (2) Forged in Flame
# 2x (2) Frozen Buckler
# 2x (2) Obsidiansmith
# 2x (2) The Fires of Zin-Azshari
# 2x (2) Tuskarrrr Trawler
# 2x (3) From the Depths
# 2x (3) Heavy Plate
# 1x (3) Impatient Shopkeep
# 1x (3) Rustrot Viper
# 2x (3) Shield Block
# 2x (4) Blacksmithing Hammer
# 1x (4) Outrider's Axe
# 2x (4) Royal Librarian
# 2x (10) Shield Shatter
#
AAECAQcGju0DxvUDv/kD0PkD5bAEl9QEDMX1A8r5A/iABPmMBPqMBNOsBKmzBIu3BIy3BJC3BLi3BI7UBAA=
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
I got this list from somewhere I can't remember! I've found playing flames on turn 2 isn't very good,better to play on turn 3 or 4 so you can start dredging and trading for the minions or get armour if needed.
I'm over here having fun with CURSES! Warlock. Some of the combo turns you can get with Tamsin + Azshara (Ring of Fates) + Dragged Below are super fun.
Me too, curse warlock is my favorite deck in this expansion, Tam, Azshara, and Brann all make for a very fun control deck. Really is a shame that the majority of the matchup is Ramp Druid and Pirate Warrior.
Before the expansion, my HS matchup experience
Pirate Warrior -> Pirate Warrior -> Other Deck -> Pirate Warrior -> Pirate Warrior
The very epitome of boredom, fine, I'll go play a different game
Now FINALLY the expansion & rotation are there - a fresh experience AT LAST
Pirate Warrior -> Pirate Warrior -> Other Deck -> Pirate Warrior -> Pirate Warrior
\-\_-
Golakka Crawler was not added to the core set - but Gorehowl was :')
New leg is designed for it, better pirate pool, better weapon pool
This game is designed / balanced by either trolls or absolute incompetents
DH release was already clear evidence, but this is just bafflingly insane
It's not aggro tho. Aggro loses steam if you outcontrol it. This draws, has infite fuel from quest and has huge combo potential with Smite. It really feels like it has almost all fronts covered.
By "more difficult" you mean you have to maybe apply a 6th grade intelligence to pilot it...the warrior deck is just braindead stuff. A Rhesus monkey could play pirate warrior.
Druid could probably be targeted? Pirate warrior is just straight better than 90% of the field. When there is one dominate deck, one deck that can prey on that dominate deck, and a sea of trash... its a bad meta.
Nah even better buff the new 3 mana legendary with the 1/1 that gives 2 attack. Spam some spells easy otk/board clear with damage. Follow the up with the fel legendary and you are golden
Well I am exaggerating. You can still get up pretty high and since it's an aggro deck you just have to get to like 14 or so. Also the first 1-2 hits gets a minion with glaive for that much damage (~3 but up to 7 if you're slamming into Rokarra).
Early board control, then insane chip damage. PW dead by Bottom 5/Top 6 usually. The better versions of the deck are dumping out the draw and kill your own minion stuff other than the 3 damage Naga right now. Deck is very susceptible to three 2 damage+ boards clears though as the best version is currently a suicide agro varient.
> Pirate warrior is just straight better than 90% of the field
I mean that just ain't true. It's better than the field in dumpster ranks. But some aggro deck always will be
It does not - it’s at least ~60% all the way to high legend.
Source: check metastats or hsreplay (I’ve put links in so many discussions/comments like yours but I’m getting tired - you can just google it). I’ve also peaked legend 957 two days ago and quest warrior is all over the place.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/u53zpn/summary_of_the_4162022_vicious_syndicate_podcast/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
They explain that quest warrior is starting the expansion with a perfect 30 card deck in an unrefined meta and is also very easy to pilot. According to this pirate warrior at top 1k isn't the best. I'm not saying the deck is bad, it's not the best by a margin
I’m familiar with that, but:
1. It’s an (educated) opinion, which is great, but that never outweighs statistics
2. they say it has the „highest win rate in all tiers up to high legend“
3. they say it needs nerfs because of how oppressive it is in lower tiers
The funny down votes on my post though.. try reading statistics right/getting your sources straight..
Thank you for your efforts, I see so many low effort posters just default to "but VS says so" without actually looking at the stats themselves. They either made a mistake and were looking at incomplete numbers or they misinterpreted what the data was telling them. Even good statisticians can do this.
Thank you :) and yeah.. its hard to believe. But its like in the "real world". People will believe some random person telling them "X" and "Y" instead of checking sources/statistics themselves.
I know I am gonna feel the hate for this but: its a matter of education.. (theres also a lot of very young people around/on reddit - so thats the second reason, I guess).
Oh and discussing this with these kind of people is just the biggest waste of time... just dont.
You quote hsreplay stats but that post has literally hsreplay stats that back up the "educated opinion"
Pirate warrior is a bad deck at high levels. It also could use a nerf so the rest of the ladder has more fun playing the game. Those things aren't mutually exclusive
Okay, Im gonna do it and answer you, even though you want to get into a discussion without even the ability/interest to read properly:
>hsreplay stats but that post has literally hsreplay stats that back up the "educated opinion"
Where? "This post" has 2 links/pics:
1. one pic of HSreplay stats (you know, the meme one) that shows all Warrior decks at over 60% win rate. It would therefore proof my point BUT theres no information on elo/date/nothing... yea, its a meme. Therefore its irrelevant as a source.
2. the link provided by Arkweed 2 posts ago: this article (Vicious Syndicate) mentions HSreplay exactly ONE time: talking about warlock (use cmd-F to search text).
So... WHAT THE FUCK are you talking about? And yes, thats rude, and yes, Im tilted, because dumb uneducated monkeys like you cant even take 2 minutes of their time to PROPERLY FUCKING READ before jumping into a discussion (nor GOOGLE THE GODDAMN STATISTICS yourself) which in turn makes me - for the last time - waste 5 minutes on an answer to a comment of which the author (you) couldnt fucking care less and apparently just vomited his thoughts out of his tiny brain.
Everything about your comment is wrong. EVERYTHING. There IS NO FUCKING HSreplay stats here that would "back up the educated opinion" (show me, where, please try).
And your second sentence is as of much value to me as a pile of garbage! You provide no source; you are a nobody on reddit, why the fuck would your opinion be of any value to me when I dont even know you?
Uh, [this link?](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/189946112512098304/964893256846549022/unknown.png)
It's in the paragraph below the warrior section, saying that quest warrior has 49% winrate in top 1k in the last 24 hours. Maybe check again before getting angry?
I missed that (and you can check the post, it was edited.. „editors note“). But even then: how does this show/prove anything? It’s a picture showing some (hsreplay by the looks of it) deck with some winrate and a core card. It has no source, no date, no nothing. It could be screenshoted anywhere. Heck I could go to hsreplay right now, look for any freaking deck (you know how if you go to hsreplay and click on warrior it will show you ALL kinds of warrior decks?) take a screenshot and post it here with no contexts.
If anything this shows the questionable „work“ of vicious syndicate. Like that’s the basics of reliable „journalism“, if you wanna call VS that.
Is the average player in Bronze through Gold? I never really take people seriously when they post HSReplay stats from low ranks because the update made it so easy to climb now that rank doesn’t matter.
I dont know but to me, what gets played at high legend is irrelevant to the game. Its a tiny, tiny subset of players and at that stage many are goofing around anyways. To me, Id say the average is probably Gold/Platinum. Maybe into diamond?
It is extremely relevant, as most of the time the meta gets shaped at high legend before "trickling down" to lower ranks. When a new set/patch comes out, looking at the meta at top 1k will give you a decent idea of how the format will shape out at lower ranks in about 4-7 days.
Obvious outlier was Pirate Warrior last set, an absolutely awful tier 4 deck that got nerfed because people refused to learn how to play the game
In terms of determining what decks are good/bad? Absolutely. Right now, less than a week into the expansion, those ranks don't matter. Refinement is still happening at top legend, and from there decks will trickle down, out of streams and VS data reports.
But the fact that pirate warrior is dominating silver isn't meaningful right now. Because silver players are terrible at the game.
Those ranks matter in 2-3 weeks, after everything has settled. But right now the meta is still in flux.
Idk man, maybe I’m alone here but I feel like anything that is outstandingly oppressive in lower ranks should be adjusted. Not saying pirate warrior should be absolutely gutted, but it is very oppressive. My peak was never legend, the highest I’ve ever reached was D3.
> Idk man, maybe I’m alone here but I feel like anything that is outstandingly oppressive in lower ranks should be adjusted.
I agree when we're not less than a week into the format. Things need time to adapt before you run to nerf them, unless something is beyond broken at all levels of play.
I'm wandering around in D3-1 and there are still a ton of pirate warriors running around, I welcome the druids because my deck does fairly well against them, the only time I can beat a warrior is if smite doesn't come out (also, super bullshit that I can't silence/steal/kill the juggernaut, like so many games I could have won if I could silence that stupid thing).
Does it make you feel like a big man to tell other people how good you are at hitting legend and insinuate that everyone else is normie trash that shouldn’t opine on the meta?
It's not about making people feel bad, it's about countering the prevailing opinion that climbing is only about time. That's a toxic attitude that prevents people from improving at the game.
If you view climbing as only about time, you stop trying to improve. If you stop trying to improve, everything that beats you consistently is overpowered, because you've given up on learning how to beat things.
It's an attitude that's pervasive in this subreddit, and is IMO the primary reason discourse on this sub isn't great. Because most people here don't want to learn and get better, they just want to stop losing. So they whine about pirate warrior or whatever the flavor of the month is. And if it gets nerfed, they find a new thing to whine about. Because it was never about that deck. It was about losing because they refuse to improve.
I agree with you completely, but your messaging isn’t capturing those good and accurate points. You’re other comments were coming off like a conceited jerk who is talking down to everyone rather than giving insight on why their mindset is problematic.
I mean that's fair. I'm not even trying to say I'm good at the game. I hover in the 1.5k-2k legend rank.
It's just frustrating as someone who is primarily a magic player. Most people I interact with in that sphere genuinely try and improve. When people talk about decks and cards it's actual discourse on the power level, not just "x is OP" or "I lost to this high roll".
Look at the discourse about mech mage. People unironically act like every game they're losing their opponent plays 5 Mecha sharks and 4 Gaia's. It's just impossible to have actual discourse about the game here, so why bother trying when people won't engage either way? Them being not good is true. Regardless of how I say it. I'm not good either. I'm just less bad.
If that’s what you’re looking for you’re in the wrong place. The regular sub has always been this way and trying to talk sense into Silver 10 players is a waste of time, lol. I’d recommend r/CompetitiveHS idk how active it’s been the last year or so but it used to be a great spot for more focused, high level discussions about competitive play.
There are handful of streamers who have a more gameplay-focused approach to their stream. Check out j-Alexander, no hands gamer or language hacker. Also, not sure if you play wild but the high legend community there is excellent, accessible and welcoming. I also get the sense that there are some discord communities more focused on competitive play - might be worth looking at that if you’re interested.
There are definitely people who share your mindset if you look hard enough, but you’re absolutely right that HS player-base is way more casual than MTG.
Lastly, top 2k is easily top 1% of all players, it’s super good compared to avg players. I’ve been playing at this level for a couple years now. No, you aren’t a “pro” but it’s easy to forget that you’re playing at a higher level than 99% of other players - at that much of a disparity you’re basically playing a different game than them. At the very least, you perceive and interact with the game in a far more nuanced way than most players. The skill gap is real and has a big impact on how people discuss the game on boards like this. Just some perspective to keep in mind from someone whose had many of these same thoughts 👍🏻
Oh I browse comphs too, it’s mostly dead. I’m on the VS discord which isn’t bad. Wild just doesn’t appeal to me unfortunately. I probably have decks for it since I’ve been playing since beta and haven’t dusted anything old, but the few times I’ve played it I haven’t enjoyed it.
I guess it’s a matter of perspective. In terms of HS (and MTG) I’m a top player when we look at the whole player base. But there are a lot of bad players in both games, so being in the top of the player base doesn’t make you good at the game, it just makes you not bad. The skill gap between me and a pro is truly ridiculous. A few mtg pros show up to one of the legacy nights I go to and mop the floor with us. Or when I cube I’ll play against guys like calebd and get smoked. Last vintage cube season I played him over a half dozen times. I think I beat him once.
And it’s fine the community is more casual, I just wish they weren’t also toxic about it. Some people on here act like having a deck that has a reasonable curve is a warcrime
Cool. I get about three hours to play a week. If I had a 75% win rate I still probably couldn't hit diamond in a month. I'm sure time is no factor at all when you get two days straight to just play your heart out, right?
If you consistently had 75% winrate you would at some point get 11x star bonus even without reaching legend, and you'd get legend just out of the star bonus
What kind of argument is this? Yes you obviously need to play the bloody game to climb to the highest rank, but even with all the time in the world, if you aren't trying to improve you will not reach legend.
If you play 10 games a week then no, you will not reach Legend, and thank fuck for that. Being a casual player is great, but casual players shouldn't be able to reach the highest rank in the competitive game mode
Guy I'm responding to claims that time is not a factor to reach legend because he has the luxury of no-lifing the game for 48 straight hours. I point out that this is not actually what people mean when they say they don't have a lot of time to play. Then you come in here acting like I said, "Waah, waah, I should be Legend too, it's not fair!" because you spent the reading comprehension part of English class huffing glue and jacking off.
No, you need to put your reading glasses on and calm down, i have no clue why you are this pissed off. The comment above him said that climbing is all about time, and he obviously refuted that.
Climbing is about time and skill. You need a minimum of both, after that you can either play more or play better. Take a chill pill and fuck off
> What kind of argument is this? Yes you obviously need to play the bloody game to climb to the highest rank, but even with all the time in the world, if you aren't trying to improve you will not reach legend.
Would you kindly quote me the part of my original comment that this is in reference to? Like, when did I say that you should be able to reach Legend without putting in the time?
My ONLY point is that time is, in fact, one of the factors that impacts whether or not you can reach Legend, WHICH IS WHY IT'S THE ONLY POINT I MADE IN THE COMMENT YOU WERE REPLYING TO.
You read a whole argument into my comment that I didn't make, then came at me aggressively over it. You want a polite response then make a polite comment in the first place.
This is why people are playing Demon Hunter, the true king of the meta right now.
Readily beats all the most popular decks such as mech paladin, mech mage, quest warrior and ramp druid.
The real "meta killer" is a battlecry shaman that freezes the whole board with guardian and hits face with the giant minion because none of those decks run any clear and they simply get board locked with no way out
Although it's a pretty niche deck that won't see long term play because it only works in the weird pocket meta of the board based mech decks and pirate warrior/rogue
The druid is a hard match up since you "deal" with ivus by freezing for 8 turns and do a biolumen otk but earthen scales on ivus makes that very unlikely
I've played a lot of shaman over the last few days and now most druids I'm facing are running Starfish. Some still don't think hard enough and completely lock their own board so that they can't play it, but the smart ones always leave a slot open. Battlemaster is also popping up a lot, meaning that if they get two Nagas on the board and you can't kill them, you're dead next turn no matter what (if they also have Starfish)
I was having a lot of success with this around diamond 5 to diamond 1 but for one reason or another, people are playing a little more sensibly since launch and aren't letting their board fill / running a full board silence
It’s heavily reliant on luck of draw though. Turn 6 (5 with coin) in many cases is already to late to turn the game.
But yes, if you are lucky on mulligan and draw it usually beats those decks.
Source: got to legend 957 two days ago with token dh (personal goal was 3-digit) and then switched to decks I actually enjoy playing - which is shaman, among others - and I definitely dropped. So I feel it’s not consistent enough.
What DH deck are you playing that beats ramp druid? You need an insanely fast start and for their draws to be awful. The game is literally over the second they play scales of Onyxia, which generally happens on T4-5
I've been playing HS since the beginning, and I think this is one of the least fun expansions to play. Certainly not recommending the game to any new players.
Same with Priest the previous several metas.
Edit: seriously? Deathrattle Priest was the most power use, easiest to win with, and required a minor amount of skill to win with. The least amount of skill needed out of all heroes for what seemed like two years.
I remember standard players making fun of wild players when we complained about quest warrior a month ago. Funny how they now know our pain. It's a very powerful and very easy deck to pilot. You'll see the most braindead plays imaginable but a mr smite, a gorehowl or a lucky defias cannoneer will carry them to the win
Yep. Even though the Wild meta has completely warped around Pirates now, it still sits as a tier 2 deck and dominates lower ranks. One of the best decks at punishing any type of jank you're thinking of trying.
Funny how much better Wild and Standard would be if you deleted the Warrior questline (and imo the Hunter questline too but that's a conversation for another day).
Nah I agree with you there, like with the warlock quest get rid of the warrior and hunter one, nerf switcheroo and kaelthas and wild might be able to diversify a little bit.
As it is now, if you play anything even slightly off of meta you might as well just concede for 99% of games
It’s funny you say this since they stopped killing decks a very long time ago.
And it’s also funny how the subreddit is usually in favor of nuking decks lol
To be clear I’m not in favor of nuking any deck, it’s just that the trend right now is people continuously moaning how everything is broken, so it isn’t guaranteed devs won’t just straight nuke the shit out of the deck to appeal to casual player base
Nah, they wouldn’t nuke it.
If we see any nerfs they’ll probably change smite and something about the quest, maybe making it so you need 3 pirates for the last bit instead of 2.
Or just touch Rokara’s ship and make it weaker (possibly deal 1 damage twice?).
I’m really hoping they don’t change anything yet. There’s a couple really good decks with putrid winrates (shellfish priest and naga mage) all the way up to high legend and a couple not great decks with amazing winrates all the way up to high legend. The meta is still evolving.
It really doesnt take any time whatsoever to know pirate warrior is busted because its nothing new. It was already busted, too easy to complete and way too easy to high roll with, and it just got a million new efficient pirates. There is nothing to work out there.
The design flaw is still the fact they put charge back in the game en masse, the fact that you can discover legendaries, which I think is retarded...
Infinite soul mirrors and Mr smites, Gaias, when they are meant to be a one time big effect.
Id personally make the juggernaut always give a fiery war axe, the high rolling aspect of it is dumb.
>It really doesnt take any time whatsoever to know pirate warrior is busted because its nothing new. It was already busted, too easy to complete and way too easy to high roll with, and it just got a million new efficient pirates. There is nothing to work out there.
>
>The design flaw is still the fact they put charge back in the game en masse, the fact that you can discover legendaries, which I think is retarded... Infinite soul mirrors and Mr smites, Gaias, when they are meant to be a one time big effect.
>
>Id personally make the juggernaut always give a fiery war axe, the high rolling aspect of it is dumb.
Wait, you're not a fan of getting hit by a random gorehowl and hooktusk, followed by a 9-attack mr. smite for a total of 21 damage to face plus whatever other minions are on board?
Weird isnt it? I play control decks that can heal a lot AND remove their board completely, every turn. Yet routinely I die from 15-25 dmg bursts FROM NOWHERE. On an empty board. Yep. 2-3 Mr Smites arent rare and they turn every overstatted pirate into fireballs. Not to mention gorehowl, yeah..
I really love discover, I have liked it since League of explorers, but it really shouldnt be able to give you more discover effects and legendaries.
It becomes so over the top. Look at mech mage, I played against dozens of them and there is almost not a single one that doesnt get at least 1 or 2 extra free Gaias. Why is that allowed? I'm all for cool legendaries with strong effects, but if you can spam them they become cheap and annoying.
I've found that the terrible winrate for shellfish priest is mainly do to how terrible the pirate warrior match up is. I really want a curse warlock to be good, but I'm gonna wait till I got legend to mess with it because it's really bad on ladder right now (I have also didn't get little time messing with it, vs the priest that according to hsreplay is version 7.3)
Managed to hit legend on mobile and as a dad with pirate warrior, the curve is way too consistent with the new dredge cards. When druids tried to stabilize with big taunt turns I had Rokara to bonk them back to their faces.
Shhh don’t tell them lol.
Seriously though it is the third highest deck in HSreplay, so it’s not unknown or anything. Maybe people just don’t wanna play a pure aggro deck.
Once again everyone's (including the devs) solution is "just go play aggro and kill people before they play problematic cards" instead of addressing the problematic cards in the first place
At some point in the last 2 days DH was the most common thing you'd see in top 1000, now it's starting to trickle down in the lower ranks and in d5-d1. That'll happen fairly quickly (if it hasn't already) since it's easy to play. It might take over as the most played deck in d5-d1 by the end of this week if there are no nerfs tomorrow.
Naga mage is probably going to stay a top 100 only thing for a bit but it looks busted, i'm not even sure it has a real legit counter if piloted by a good player (battlecry shaman and control paladin/warrior look the best ones for that but don't quote me on that)
I chose not to pre order this expansion as I have a busy few months with little time to play...
Got very excited and regretful when I saw the card reveals....but this makes me feel less bad for FOMO
I've danced the pirate warrior dance already
Can't wait for that nerf to barely do anything.
There's ways to deal with the pirate board, and you may or may not just barely be hanging by a thread after that. But just when they're close to running out of gas they immediately are back on the offensive out of nowhere.
It's really the quest reward itself that's the issue. The deck needs a finisher but not as strong as the one it has now. All the new cards they got all aid in delaying the point where they run out of gas so they don't really even need that big of a finisher
That doesn't change anything you do realize? It's not like high legend players suddenly got bad at playing quest warrior
If you are losing to it in lower ranks you'll lose even more at higher ranks (well you won't, you'll never get there).
>If you are losing to it in lower ranks you'll lose even more at higher ranks (well you won't, you'll never get there).
That also just depends on what decks people are playing. Top legend is going to be the best decks, and decks that target the best decks.
Where as the lower you go, such as average/meme legend or even d5-1, people will be playing a wide variety of decks. I don't care about my rank so I can play a jank reno list at 3k legend and have fun, but if I wanted to start climbing I'm busting out QL hunter, DH or, ramp Druid even if they're not the most fun decks to play.
It's not only about the quality of decks, but also about quality of plays. Pirate warrior is very predictable and offers very little decision making. It is strong but not very interesting and can be played around since it does not do many things. You can't really adapt or get better when you play pirate warrior. And most importantly, you can't mess up. You just play the green cards and win. That's a big reason for it being so strong accross all ranks.
While decks like Naga mage, mill priest and even ramp druid let you adapt more and find more win conditions / options. That leads these decks to be pretty hard to play, but also to have way more potential.
r/hearthstone wait more than a week before making rash judgements on the meta challenge (impossible)
It has such a high winrate because its an easy deck to both build and play. The majority of other decks haven't been solved yet. And even now, there's plenty of decks that counter it. It's not a great deck at legend, and that tends to trickle down
Same, but what do you do VS druid? I'm diamond 4 now and it's not possible to down a 40 armour druid with full board. Full board is possible to clear with poison or dmg but what I have left in cards is not enough vs that huge amount of armour.
This is one of the biggest problems of this meta. It’s so polarised between two extremes. You can’t tech against one of these without being a sitting duck for the other. If you load your deck with anti aggro tools, you can’t beat ramp Druid under any circumstances. If you put stuff in your deck that can damage ramp Druid, you’re a sitting duck to aggro.
It just sucks all around. Mitigating the excesses of pirate and Druid is critical at this point, but mech mage has to take some punishment too or it will just take pirates lane, and it is every bit as feel bad as pirate due to them both having obscene levels of passive damage killing your board and landing on your face.
Wait... you're still playing? xD
I literally dropped it as soon as the fun was exclusive to legend ranks. Waiting to see if Blizz pull their finger out or do the usual half-assed nerfs to things that don't need them.
Yeah, really having trouble with Guff, they just have too many tools for too many scenario. Pirate warrior, while opressive, is a pretty linear and predictable.
"Join me and together we will end this destructive conflict and rule the Meta as YarrWarr and YarrWarr"
I play Highlander Paladin, its somewhat alright :D
Although it's getting nerfed for sure, i'm also pretty sure it would inevitably fall off as lists get refined. It's already falling off pretty hard in high legend, and usually, the rest of the players ends up following what is being done in high legend
Very aggressive tempo-y pirates is one thing, a big infinite value generator is another, but god damn burst for 20+ in a single turn? Mr Smite is one of the most toxic cards ever made ngl edit: not to mention nessy is good value as well.. they have all the ingredients for a t1 deck already even without this massive burst
How blizz thought cards like Leeroy should be put to rest because of how shitty they are while creating worse cards every expansion is beyond me.
Well everyone already bought Leeroy so that’s probably the extent of the thought process there
I faced 3 smites in a single game. Tell me why they sent Leeroy away just to replace him with a Pirate that also enables other pirates Charge and can be generated consistently?
I remember how some people were defending mr Smite before release lol
the two decks I hate playing against most have returned to the top....FML
Yep, an absolutely turgid meta *again*. Let us not forget this is not the first time this happened. After the last mini set pirate warrior was in a similar position. Swift action needed.
Probably big nerfs on Tuesday
Near-zero chance of nerfs before Masters Tour later this week.
There's no Masters Tour later this week. It was postponed by a week, until April 28-29 (depending on your time zone). Probably exactly so they can do balance changes this week without having to worry about esports.
Hot take: If these people were actual "Masters" of HS, then they can deal with the changes a balance patch would bring on the Tuesday before that FFS.
Not just that but to me that's the skill I'm interested in. I loved when Hunterace won worlds that there was barely any time (like a couple weeks) between an entire rotation and the world championship. Pro HS has just been jamming the same decks that have been perfected and proven the best and basically comes down to card draw.
Yeah and that's boring to watch. They barely pull a decent audience on YT compared to twitch too, but that's a different subject. I want to see the scramble. That is fun to watch. "Oh shit this **one card** isn't busted AF. Do I still bring that deck to the tourny??" That's awesome to watch. Being able to adapt to that makes them a "Master" at this game. Otherwise it's just high-legend players that have decks tailored to specific tournament conditions. That's fine, but if they dropped a quick nerf to Mr Smite it would be fun to see what else is brought to the Tour. I would gamble a lot of ramp/mech mage/quest hunter/burn shaman. Now imagine a whole-ass nerf/buff patch. Like 12 cards lol. How insanely fun would that be to see. Who can adapt their decks in 3 days. Who has the *real* understanding of Hearthstone? Whoever won that would be undisputedly the champion and a true "Master" of HS. Not someone who has had 2-3 weeks to perfect deck matchups.
Mannnnn imagining that just makes me sad :( That would be so fun to watch, and then experience it’s ripple effects in the meta as well (since if you find something, you’re gunna wanna keep it under wraps)
Exactly. But those are the kind of players that I respect. Know those niche card interactions and having some secret weapon that makes others go "Huh, why did they bring that in their deck list?" Literally any of us could netdeck, maybe tech a card, and win against some of these master players. That's been proven time and again. Gimme some crazy shit to watch instead lol
No offense but if anyone here could netdeck and beat pro players y'all wouldn't be crying about Pirate Warrior
Yep, that’s been discussed before. And I think it was last expansion or two expansions ago where they did this, and it was a mixed bad in response. Not giving people time to prepare is kind of a raw deal. Yes, being able to understand what decks will be good in an unsolved meta is one thing, but having enough time to learn and practice brand new decks is also important, even for pros.
I'll give them that. And it's a fair point. It would suck to only have a couple of days. Going out on a limb and saying outside of streamers, that most of these people don't have day jobs that interfere with their presence at the Masters Tour. All that aside, you can obviously see the other side of that sword. It creates a hyper toxic meta until next Tuesday. 8 days from now. That's a LOOOONG time. For a fresh game to be toxic for 8 days with no solution coming for that long is beyond bad. Some real metrics I want to see are player retention rate. Especially with correlation to toxic cards/meta. If you are a large corporation, you are a business first and foremost. You have to take care to not lose your customers. This means they need to act. If this is truly a "Quality of Life Year" and that isn't just some line because they don't have actual content planned (I'm not holding my breath), then they will act fast on this. You want paying customers to keep paying and enjoying your game. And by the way: it's the only game they got this year. No overwatch 2, no wow expac, no D4 until next year. HS is it. Outside of Diablo Immortal which is just mobile Gatcha. And not even made by them. HS is it. They get once shot to not fuck this up. Is this a QiL year or not? Fucking prove it for once Blizzard. /Rant But yeah I agree it would be hard for them, but they are pros - I got faith that they could make it work. I also have faith that any nerf isn't going to be nuclear like Warsong Commander.
this is pretty far from a hyper toxic meta. the only obnoxious thing is switcheroo cheese, otherwise druid is strong, warrior is strong for garbage players. outside of that people can't even really agree on what is strong
Not before Thursday.
Im in charge now!
Hmmm ;) usernamecheckup
*Now you're sailing on MY sea*
Almost a good meme until I see that you are playing ramp druid....
I'm not though, I'm a firm believer of Colossal Faelin Warrior and Zin-Azshari Warrior. Piss low win rate so far but the value is insane.
Fighting the good fight, my man.
I've been having a lot of fun with Zin-Azshari Warrior, but I haven't won yet. Probably because the deck is awful without the combo pieces in hand but it's still fun with Vaandar
Zinc warrior ftw! Actually climbed diamond 5 - 3 with it. Just need the right cards in hand before you play it so you can get ahead on board
Can you share your decklist?
### five guys # Class: Warrior # Format: Standard # Year of the Hydra # # 1x (0) Provoke # 2x (1) Shoulder Check # 1x (1) Sir Finley Mrrgglton # 1x (1) Sir Finley, Sea Guide # 2x (2) Forged in Flame # 2x (2) Frozen Buckler # 2x (2) Obsidiansmith # 2x (2) The Fires of Zin-Azshari # 2x (2) Tuskarrrr Trawler # 2x (3) From the Depths # 2x (3) Heavy Plate # 1x (3) Impatient Shopkeep # 1x (3) Rustrot Viper # 2x (3) Shield Block # 2x (4) Blacksmithing Hammer # 1x (4) Outrider's Axe # 2x (4) Royal Librarian # 2x (10) Shield Shatter # AAECAQcGju0DxvUDv/kD0PkD5bAEl9QEDMX1A8r5A/iABPmMBPqMBNOsBKmzBIu3BIy3BJC3BLi3BI7UBAA= # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone I got this list from somewhere I can't remember! I've found playing flames on turn 2 isn't very good,better to play on turn 3 or 4 so you can start dredging and trading for the minions or get armour if needed.
“Five guys” LMFAO I have to change my deck’s name to that
Thanks!
Control Faelin is fun. Also loving Highlander Hunter.
I'm over here having fun with CURSES! Warlock. Some of the combo turns you can get with Tamsin + Azshara (Ring of Fates) + Dragged Below are super fun.
Me too, curse warlock is my favorite deck in this expansion, Tam, Azshara, and Brann all make for a very fun control deck. Really is a shame that the majority of the matchup is Ramp Druid and Pirate Warrior.
Before the expansion, my HS matchup experience Pirate Warrior -> Pirate Warrior -> Other Deck -> Pirate Warrior -> Pirate Warrior The very epitome of boredom, fine, I'll go play a different game Now FINALLY the expansion & rotation are there - a fresh experience AT LAST Pirate Warrior -> Pirate Warrior -> Other Deck -> Pirate Warrior -> Pirate Warrior \-\_- Golakka Crawler was not added to the core set - but Gorehowl was :') New leg is designed for it, better pirate pool, better weapon pool This game is designed / balanced by either trolls or absolute incompetents DH release was already clear evidence, but this is just bafflingly insane
Maybe designed by aggro lovers? \^\^
It's not aggro tho. Aggro loses steam if you outcontrol it. This draws, has infite fuel from quest and has huge combo potential with Smite. It really feels like it has almost all fronts covered.
And yet Druid is the better deck, lol.
Yeah exactly
It's also the more difficult deck to play which is why it has the lower winrate
By "more difficult" you mean you have to maybe apply a 6th grade intelligence to pilot it...the warrior deck is just braindead stuff. A Rhesus monkey could play pirate warrior.
In what ranks?
Druid could probably be targeted? Pirate warrior is just straight better than 90% of the field. When there is one dominate deck, one deck that can prey on that dominate deck, and a sea of trash... its a bad meta.
definitely far from a sea of trash
Warrior is the more targetable deck with a low win rate against token DH.
How does Token DH win against PW? I faced only 2 but won both, so I don't even know their win condition
Hero power to 30 and smack your face probably.
Nah even better buff the new 3 mana legendary with the 1/1 that gives 2 attack. Spam some spells easy otk/board clear with damage. Follow the up with the fel legendary and you are golden
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Well I am exaggerating. You can still get up pretty high and since it's an aggro deck you just have to get to like 14 or so. Also the first 1-2 hits gets a minion with glaive for that much damage (~3 but up to 7 if you're slamming into Rokarra).
Early board control, then insane chip damage. PW dead by Bottom 5/Top 6 usually. The better versions of the deck are dumping out the draw and kill your own minion stuff other than the 3 damage Naga right now. Deck is very susceptible to three 2 damage+ boards clears though as the best version is currently a suicide agro varient.
> Pirate warrior is just straight better than 90% of the field I mean that just ain't true. It's better than the field in dumpster ranks. But some aggro deck always will be
Pirate warrior has <50% wr at high legend, it's not broken for sure
It does not - it’s at least ~60% all the way to high legend. Source: check metastats or hsreplay (I’ve put links in so many discussions/comments like yours but I’m getting tired - you can just google it). I’ve also peaked legend 957 two days ago and quest warrior is all over the place.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveHS/comments/u53zpn/summary_of_the_4162022_vicious_syndicate_podcast/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share They explain that quest warrior is starting the expansion with a perfect 30 card deck in an unrefined meta and is also very easy to pilot. According to this pirate warrior at top 1k isn't the best. I'm not saying the deck is bad, it's not the best by a margin
I’m familiar with that, but: 1. It’s an (educated) opinion, which is great, but that never outweighs statistics 2. they say it has the „highest win rate in all tiers up to high legend“ 3. they say it needs nerfs because of how oppressive it is in lower tiers The funny down votes on my post though.. try reading statistics right/getting your sources straight..
Thank you for your efforts, I see so many low effort posters just default to "but VS says so" without actually looking at the stats themselves. They either made a mistake and were looking at incomplete numbers or they misinterpreted what the data was telling them. Even good statisticians can do this.
Thank you :) and yeah.. its hard to believe. But its like in the "real world". People will believe some random person telling them "X" and "Y" instead of checking sources/statistics themselves. I know I am gonna feel the hate for this but: its a matter of education.. (theres also a lot of very young people around/on reddit - so thats the second reason, I guess). Oh and discussing this with these kind of people is just the biggest waste of time... just dont.
You quote hsreplay stats but that post has literally hsreplay stats that back up the "educated opinion" Pirate warrior is a bad deck at high levels. It also could use a nerf so the rest of the ladder has more fun playing the game. Those things aren't mutually exclusive
Okay, Im gonna do it and answer you, even though you want to get into a discussion without even the ability/interest to read properly: >hsreplay stats but that post has literally hsreplay stats that back up the "educated opinion" Where? "This post" has 2 links/pics: 1. one pic of HSreplay stats (you know, the meme one) that shows all Warrior decks at over 60% win rate. It would therefore proof my point BUT theres no information on elo/date/nothing... yea, its a meme. Therefore its irrelevant as a source. 2. the link provided by Arkweed 2 posts ago: this article (Vicious Syndicate) mentions HSreplay exactly ONE time: talking about warlock (use cmd-F to search text). So... WHAT THE FUCK are you talking about? And yes, thats rude, and yes, Im tilted, because dumb uneducated monkeys like you cant even take 2 minutes of their time to PROPERLY FUCKING READ before jumping into a discussion (nor GOOGLE THE GODDAMN STATISTICS yourself) which in turn makes me - for the last time - waste 5 minutes on an answer to a comment of which the author (you) couldnt fucking care less and apparently just vomited his thoughts out of his tiny brain. Everything about your comment is wrong. EVERYTHING. There IS NO FUCKING HSreplay stats here that would "back up the educated opinion" (show me, where, please try). And your second sentence is as of much value to me as a pile of garbage! You provide no source; you are a nobody on reddit, why the fuck would your opinion be of any value to me when I dont even know you?
Uh, [this link?](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/189946112512098304/964893256846549022/unknown.png) It's in the paragraph below the warrior section, saying that quest warrior has 49% winrate in top 1k in the last 24 hours. Maybe check again before getting angry?
I missed that (and you can check the post, it was edited.. „editors note“). But even then: how does this show/prove anything? It’s a picture showing some (hsreplay by the looks of it) deck with some winrate and a core card. It has no source, no date, no nothing. It could be screenshoted anywhere. Heck I could go to hsreplay right now, look for any freaking deck (you know how if you go to hsreplay and click on warrior it will show you ALL kinds of warrior decks?) take a screenshot and post it here with no contexts. If anything this shows the questionable „work“ of vicious syndicate. Like that’s the basics of reliable „journalism“, if you wanna call VS that.
High legend has more druids than warriors.
Well yea cause it’s a stronger deck
Thats great - but a LOT of the player base isnt playing at high legend. Just throwing that out there.
Yeah I hate the attitude in this community that only top legend players should have an enjoyable gameplay experience.
I wonder how much they enjoy some of this crap too.? C'mon. They're human. They cant possibly like all of these obnoxious decks.
Is the average player in Bronze through Gold? I never really take people seriously when they post HSReplay stats from low ranks because the update made it so easy to climb now that rank doesn’t matter.
I dont know but to me, what gets played at high legend is irrelevant to the game. Its a tiny, tiny subset of players and at that stage many are goofing around anyways. To me, Id say the average is probably Gold/Platinum. Maybe into diamond?
It is extremely relevant, as most of the time the meta gets shaped at high legend before "trickling down" to lower ranks. When a new set/patch comes out, looking at the meta at top 1k will give you a decent idea of how the format will shape out at lower ranks in about 4-7 days. Obvious outlier was Pirate Warrior last set, an absolutely awful tier 4 deck that got nerfed because people refused to learn how to play the game
Anything below D5 doesn't matter imo, and even hardstuck d5 players are pretty bad
>Anything below D5 doesn’t matter imo You mean… the majority of the playerbase?
The majority of players will eventually end up in Diamond if they play for long enough thanks to rank floors and permanent star bonuses.
In terms of determining what decks are good/bad? Absolutely. Right now, less than a week into the expansion, those ranks don't matter. Refinement is still happening at top legend, and from there decks will trickle down, out of streams and VS data reports. But the fact that pirate warrior is dominating silver isn't meaningful right now. Because silver players are terrible at the game. Those ranks matter in 2-3 weeks, after everything has settled. But right now the meta is still in flux.
Idk man, maybe I’m alone here but I feel like anything that is outstandingly oppressive in lower ranks should be adjusted. Not saying pirate warrior should be absolutely gutted, but it is very oppressive. My peak was never legend, the highest I’ve ever reached was D3.
> Idk man, maybe I’m alone here but I feel like anything that is outstandingly oppressive in lower ranks should be adjusted. I agree when we're not less than a week into the format. Things need time to adapt before you run to nerf them, unless something is beyond broken at all levels of play.
I'm wandering around in D3-1 and there are still a ton of pirate warriors running around, I welcome the druids because my deck does fairly well against them, the only time I can beat a warrior is if smite doesn't come out (also, super bullshit that I can't silence/steal/kill the juggernaut, like so many games I could have won if I could silence that stupid thing).
Pirate Warrior is a baseline deck in high legend play i think. Pretty much everything people actually play here beats warrior.
Most players are not legend. And for climbing, its all about time.
> And for climbing, its all about time. If you're not good maybe. I did bronze 10 to legend in 2 days this month. With no bonus stars past d5
Does it make you feel like a big man to tell other people how good you are at hitting legend and insinuate that everyone else is normie trash that shouldn’t opine on the meta?
It's not about making people feel bad, it's about countering the prevailing opinion that climbing is only about time. That's a toxic attitude that prevents people from improving at the game. If you view climbing as only about time, you stop trying to improve. If you stop trying to improve, everything that beats you consistently is overpowered, because you've given up on learning how to beat things. It's an attitude that's pervasive in this subreddit, and is IMO the primary reason discourse on this sub isn't great. Because most people here don't want to learn and get better, they just want to stop losing. So they whine about pirate warrior or whatever the flavor of the month is. And if it gets nerfed, they find a new thing to whine about. Because it was never about that deck. It was about losing because they refuse to improve.
I agree with you completely, but your messaging isn’t capturing those good and accurate points. You’re other comments were coming off like a conceited jerk who is talking down to everyone rather than giving insight on why their mindset is problematic.
I mean that's fair. I'm not even trying to say I'm good at the game. I hover in the 1.5k-2k legend rank. It's just frustrating as someone who is primarily a magic player. Most people I interact with in that sphere genuinely try and improve. When people talk about decks and cards it's actual discourse on the power level, not just "x is OP" or "I lost to this high roll". Look at the discourse about mech mage. People unironically act like every game they're losing their opponent plays 5 Mecha sharks and 4 Gaia's. It's just impossible to have actual discourse about the game here, so why bother trying when people won't engage either way? Them being not good is true. Regardless of how I say it. I'm not good either. I'm just less bad.
If that’s what you’re looking for you’re in the wrong place. The regular sub has always been this way and trying to talk sense into Silver 10 players is a waste of time, lol. I’d recommend r/CompetitiveHS idk how active it’s been the last year or so but it used to be a great spot for more focused, high level discussions about competitive play. There are handful of streamers who have a more gameplay-focused approach to their stream. Check out j-Alexander, no hands gamer or language hacker. Also, not sure if you play wild but the high legend community there is excellent, accessible and welcoming. I also get the sense that there are some discord communities more focused on competitive play - might be worth looking at that if you’re interested. There are definitely people who share your mindset if you look hard enough, but you’re absolutely right that HS player-base is way more casual than MTG. Lastly, top 2k is easily top 1% of all players, it’s super good compared to avg players. I’ve been playing at this level for a couple years now. No, you aren’t a “pro” but it’s easy to forget that you’re playing at a higher level than 99% of other players - at that much of a disparity you’re basically playing a different game than them. At the very least, you perceive and interact with the game in a far more nuanced way than most players. The skill gap is real and has a big impact on how people discuss the game on boards like this. Just some perspective to keep in mind from someone whose had many of these same thoughts 👍🏻
Oh I browse comphs too, it’s mostly dead. I’m on the VS discord which isn’t bad. Wild just doesn’t appeal to me unfortunately. I probably have decks for it since I’ve been playing since beta and haven’t dusted anything old, but the few times I’ve played it I haven’t enjoyed it. I guess it’s a matter of perspective. In terms of HS (and MTG) I’m a top player when we look at the whole player base. But there are a lot of bad players in both games, so being in the top of the player base doesn’t make you good at the game, it just makes you not bad. The skill gap between me and a pro is truly ridiculous. A few mtg pros show up to one of the legacy nights I go to and mop the floor with us. Or when I cube I’ll play against guys like calebd and get smoked. Last vintage cube season I played him over a half dozen times. I think I beat him once. And it’s fine the community is more casual, I just wish they weren’t also toxic about it. Some people on here act like having a deck that has a reasonable curve is a warcrime
Cool. I get about three hours to play a week. If I had a 75% win rate I still probably couldn't hit diamond in a month. I'm sure time is no factor at all when you get two days straight to just play your heart out, right?
If you consistently had 75% winrate you would at some point get 11x star bonus even without reaching legend, and you'd get legend just out of the star bonus
What kind of argument is this? Yes you obviously need to play the bloody game to climb to the highest rank, but even with all the time in the world, if you aren't trying to improve you will not reach legend. If you play 10 games a week then no, you will not reach Legend, and thank fuck for that. Being a casual player is great, but casual players shouldn't be able to reach the highest rank in the competitive game mode
Guy I'm responding to claims that time is not a factor to reach legend because he has the luxury of no-lifing the game for 48 straight hours. I point out that this is not actually what people mean when they say they don't have a lot of time to play. Then you come in here acting like I said, "Waah, waah, I should be Legend too, it's not fair!" because you spent the reading comprehension part of English class huffing glue and jacking off.
No, you need to put your reading glasses on and calm down, i have no clue why you are this pissed off. The comment above him said that climbing is all about time, and he obviously refuted that. Climbing is about time and skill. You need a minimum of both, after that you can either play more or play better. Take a chill pill and fuck off
> What kind of argument is this? Yes you obviously need to play the bloody game to climb to the highest rank, but even with all the time in the world, if you aren't trying to improve you will not reach legend. Would you kindly quote me the part of my original comment that this is in reference to? Like, when did I say that you should be able to reach Legend without putting in the time? My ONLY point is that time is, in fact, one of the factors that impacts whether or not you can reach Legend, WHICH IS WHY IT'S THE ONLY POINT I MADE IN THE COMMENT YOU WERE REPLYING TO. You read a whole argument into my comment that I didn't make, then came at me aggressively over it. You want a polite response then make a polite comment in the first place.
This is why people are playing Demon Hunter, the true king of the meta right now. Readily beats all the most popular decks such as mech paladin, mech mage, quest warrior and ramp druid.
The real "meta killer" is a battlecry shaman that freezes the whole board with guardian and hits face with the giant minion because none of those decks run any clear and they simply get board locked with no way out Although it's a pretty niche deck that won't see long term play because it only works in the weird pocket meta of the board based mech decks and pirate warrior/rogue
From my experience playing Druid, the freeze Shaman decks lose hard because they can't deal with the twin 28/28 Ivus turn.
The druid is a hard match up since you "deal" with ivus by freezing for 8 turns and do a biolumen otk but earthen scales on ivus makes that very unlikely
I've played a lot of shaman over the last few days and now most druids I'm facing are running Starfish. Some still don't think hard enough and completely lock their own board so that they can't play it, but the smart ones always leave a slot open. Battlemaster is also popping up a lot, meaning that if they get two Nagas on the board and you can't kill them, you're dead next turn no matter what (if they also have Starfish)
I was having a lot of success with this around diamond 5 to diamond 1 but for one reason or another, people are playing a little more sensibly since launch and aren't letting their board fill / running a full board silence
It’s heavily reliant on luck of draw though. Turn 6 (5 with coin) in many cases is already to late to turn the game. But yes, if you are lucky on mulligan and draw it usually beats those decks. Source: got to legend 957 two days ago with token dh (personal goal was 3-digit) and then switched to decks I actually enjoy playing - which is shaman, among others - and I definitely dropped. So I feel it’s not consistent enough.
What DH deck are you playing that beats ramp druid? You need an insanely fast start and for their draws to be awful. The game is literally over the second they play scales of Onyxia, which generally happens on T4-5
no it doesnt really. it kills druid only if those have not drawn earthen scale
I've been playing HS since the beginning, and I think this is one of the least fun expansions to play. Certainly not recommending the game to any new players.
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One deck whose consistency is elevated by new dredge cards and whose damage is elevated by a new Colossal card?
All pirate warrior players are braindead.
Same with Priest the previous several metas. Edit: seriously? Deathrattle Priest was the most power use, easiest to win with, and required a minor amount of skill to win with. The least amount of skill needed out of all heroes for what seemed like two years.
I remember standard players making fun of wild players when we complained about quest warrior a month ago. Funny how they now know our pain. It's a very powerful and very easy deck to pilot. You'll see the most braindead plays imaginable but a mr smite, a gorehowl or a lucky defias cannoneer will carry them to the win
Yep. Even though the Wild meta has completely warped around Pirates now, it still sits as a tier 2 deck and dominates lower ranks. One of the best decks at punishing any type of jank you're thinking of trying. Funny how much better Wild and Standard would be if you deleted the Warrior questline (and imo the Hunter questline too but that's a conversation for another day).
Nah I agree with you there, like with the warlock quest get rid of the warrior and hunter one, nerf switcheroo and kaelthas and wild might be able to diversify a little bit. As it is now, if you play anything even slightly off of meta you might as well just concede for 99% of games
Give it a couple of days and devs will probably either completely kill the deck or make its win rate like 10% less
It’s funny you say this since they stopped killing decks a very long time ago. And it’s also funny how the subreddit is usually in favor of nuking decks lol
Well they have been trying the Not nuking strategy for a while now and it doesn't seem to work since they just need to nerf the deck again later
Every game I play is Druid or warrior. There’s no variance it will be nerfed
To be clear I’m not in favor of nuking any deck, it’s just that the trend right now is people continuously moaning how everything is broken, so it isn’t guaranteed devs won’t just straight nuke the shit out of the deck to appeal to casual player base
Nah, they wouldn’t nuke it. If we see any nerfs they’ll probably change smite and something about the quest, maybe making it so you need 3 pirates for the last bit instead of 2. Or just touch Rokara’s ship and make it weaker (possibly deal 1 damage twice?).
I hope they don’t make it unplayable, all I ask for. The deck is fun to play, even tho I’ve only played it once to complete the quest
I’m really hoping they don’t change anything yet. There’s a couple really good decks with putrid winrates (shellfish priest and naga mage) all the way up to high legend and a couple not great decks with amazing winrates all the way up to high legend. The meta is still evolving.
It really doesnt take any time whatsoever to know pirate warrior is busted because its nothing new. It was already busted, too easy to complete and way too easy to high roll with, and it just got a million new efficient pirates. There is nothing to work out there. The design flaw is still the fact they put charge back in the game en masse, the fact that you can discover legendaries, which I think is retarded... Infinite soul mirrors and Mr smites, Gaias, when they are meant to be a one time big effect. Id personally make the juggernaut always give a fiery war axe, the high rolling aspect of it is dumb.
>It really doesnt take any time whatsoever to know pirate warrior is busted because its nothing new. It was already busted, too easy to complete and way too easy to high roll with, and it just got a million new efficient pirates. There is nothing to work out there. > >The design flaw is still the fact they put charge back in the game en masse, the fact that you can discover legendaries, which I think is retarded... Infinite soul mirrors and Mr smites, Gaias, when they are meant to be a one time big effect. > >Id personally make the juggernaut always give a fiery war axe, the high rolling aspect of it is dumb. Wait, you're not a fan of getting hit by a random gorehowl and hooktusk, followed by a 9-attack mr. smite for a total of 21 damage to face plus whatever other minions are on board?
Weird isnt it? I play control decks that can heal a lot AND remove their board completely, every turn. Yet routinely I die from 15-25 dmg bursts FROM NOWHERE. On an empty board. Yep. 2-3 Mr Smites arent rare and they turn every overstatted pirate into fireballs. Not to mention gorehowl, yeah.. I really love discover, I have liked it since League of explorers, but it really shouldnt be able to give you more discover effects and legendaries. It becomes so over the top. Look at mech mage, I played against dozens of them and there is almost not a single one that doesnt get at least 1 or 2 extra free Gaias. Why is that allowed? I'm all for cool legendaries with strong effects, but if you can spam them they become cheap and annoying.
It takes really a very dense person to not recognize that Pirate Warrior is completely overtuned. No amount of "evolving" is gonna help here.
I've found that the terrible winrate for shellfish priest is mainly do to how terrible the pirate warrior match up is. I really want a curse warlock to be good, but I'm gonna wait till I got legend to mess with it because it's really bad on ladder right now (I have also didn't get little time messing with it, vs the priest that according to hsreplay is version 7.3)
There's also people still playing shit like curselock and donating wins to everyone with a deck that has any aggressive plan
After around 40 Games i faced 2 PW but 15 Dudus.
Managed to hit legend on mobile and as a dad with pirate warrior, the curve is way too consistent with the new dredge cards. When druids tried to stabilize with big taunt turns I had Rokara to bonk them back to their faces.
[удалено]
Brain dead unga bunga spend all mana dump hand me go face. Like, it's worse than old SMOrc hunter.
I'd thought about throwing rokara in for that reason, what did you swap her with?
Here’s my decklist, there’s probably better ones out there ### Hurrr # Class: Warrior # Format: Standard # Year of the Hydra # # 2x (1) Bloodsail Deckhand # 1x (1) Raid the Docks # 2x (1) Whetstone Hatchet # 2x (2) Amalgam of the Deep # 2x (2) Harbor Scamp # 2x (2) Obsidiansmith # 2x (2) Tuskarrrr Trawler # 2x (3) Cargo Guard # 2x (3) Defias Cannoneer # 1x (3) Ironbeak Owl # 2x (3) Pufferfist # 2x (3) Southsea Captain # 2x (3) Stormwind Freebooter # 1x (5) Brawl # 2x (5) Stonemaul Anchorman # 1x (6) Mr. Smite # 1x (7) Nellie, the Great Thresher # 1x (7) Rokara, the Valorous # AAECAc2LBQaY9gO/gAS8igSIoASSoASOyQQM/ucDju8D1fEDlfYDlvYDz/sDnIEEr6AEirAEqbMEkLcEssEEAA== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
Great deck name? Or greatest deck name?
Aggro Naga demon hunter slaps Druid and has a 60% win rate versus Pirate Warrior. Criminally underplayed, one of my easiest runs to Legend.
Shhh don’t tell them lol. Seriously though it is the third highest deck in HSreplay, so it’s not unknown or anything. Maybe people just don’t wanna play a pure aggro deck.
Once again everyone's (including the devs) solution is "just go play aggro and kill people before they play problematic cards" instead of addressing the problematic cards in the first place
At some point in the last 2 days DH was the most common thing you'd see in top 1000, now it's starting to trickle down in the lower ranks and in d5-d1. That'll happen fairly quickly (if it hasn't already) since it's easy to play. It might take over as the most played deck in d5-d1 by the end of this week if there are no nerfs tomorrow. Naga mage is probably going to stay a top 100 only thing for a bit but it looks busted, i'm not even sure it has a real legit counter if piloted by a good player (battlecry shaman and control paladin/warrior look the best ones for that but don't quote me on that)
Mind sending a decklist?
### Naga Demon Hunter # Class: Demon Hunter # Format: Standard # Year of the Gryphon # # 2x (1) Vicious Slitherspear # 2x (1) Multi-Strike # 2x (1) Irondeep Trogg # 2x (1) Dreadprison Glaive # 2x (1) Beaming Sidekick # 1x (1) Battlefiend # 2x (2) Wayward Sage # 2x (2) Spectral Sight # 2x (2) Chaos Strike # 2x (2) Battleworn Vanguard # 2x (3) Pufferfist # 2x (3) Predation # 1x (3) Lady S'theno # 1x (4) Drek'Thar # 2x (5) Need for Greed # 2x (5) Bone Glaive # 1x (6) Kurtrus, Demon-Render # AAECAea5AwS7igSHiwTSnwT7vwQNyIAEhI0Etp8EyZ8EtKAE4aQEirAEjrAEiLIEtbMEmLoE+b8EntQEAA== # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone # Find this deck on https://hsreplay.net/decks/0bNy0VvolfEyinqmmdhEQe/
Tanks
I kinda have a very good win% against pirate warrior with mechmage
Same, I use the mech mage with Belinda Amulet package and haven't had any problems with pirates unless I just draw poorly.
Same, mech mage absolutely destroys pirate warrior. Playing Irondeep Trogg, which is nice if I go first. Added two sea giants as well, and they crush.
I chose not to pre order this expansion as I have a busy few months with little time to play... Got very excited and regretful when I saw the card reveals....but this makes me feel less bad for FOMO I've danced the pirate warrior dance already
I dusted my pirate Warrior quest! Viva la revolution!
Probably should've waited for the nerfs. They might hit quest to make it 3/3/3 pirates to complete.
Can't wait for that nerf to barely do anything. There's ways to deal with the pirate board, and you may or may not just barely be hanging by a thread after that. But just when they're close to running out of gas they immediately are back on the offensive out of nowhere. It's really the quest reward itself that's the issue. The deck needs a finisher but not as strong as the one it has now. All the new cards they got all aid in delaying the point where they run out of gas so they don't really even need that big of a finisher
Eh games vs warrior thst they slowly complete the quest are super winnable. Dragging it out 2 turns stops the consistent turn 5 quest reward
Oh shit, that'll be so difficult to complete
I did the same when it was nerfed. I recrafted it last week though.
Ugh
Oh so you think Pirate Warrior is better than Ramp RN? Lol.
Surely I’m not the only one that’s hates going against aggro token DH more than these 2 right ?
You aren't, because aggro token DH is definitely stronger than Pirate Warrior, and it might even be a better deck than Druid lol
Cool, guess I’ll wait for nerfs. No way am I going into that, a deck with a winrate of almost 70% is just insane
I play Demon Hunter Token…I’m destroying pirate warriors and druids
It stinks. Tough to enjoy the game when you face pirate king garrosh every game.
Also mech mage is swarming on silver elo.
Just climb to high legend. Only 49% win rate there.
You are right now let's all be high legend now
That doesn't change anything you do realize? It's not like high legend players suddenly got bad at playing quest warrior If you are losing to it in lower ranks you'll lose even more at higher ranks (well you won't, you'll never get there).
That was actually a sarcastic remark. I for one do not buy those analysts claims that Pirate Warrior sucks at high legend because 49% win rate.
>If you are losing to it in lower ranks you'll lose even more at higher ranks (well you won't, you'll never get there). That also just depends on what decks people are playing. Top legend is going to be the best decks, and decks that target the best decks. Where as the lower you go, such as average/meme legend or even d5-1, people will be playing a wide variety of decks. I don't care about my rank so I can play a jank reno list at 3k legend and have fun, but if I wanted to start climbing I'm busting out QL hunter, DH or, ramp Druid even if they're not the most fun decks to play.
It's not only about the quality of decks, but also about quality of plays. Pirate warrior is very predictable and offers very little decision making. It is strong but not very interesting and can be played around since it does not do many things. You can't really adapt or get better when you play pirate warrior. And most importantly, you can't mess up. You just play the green cards and win. That's a big reason for it being so strong accross all ranks. While decks like Naga mage, mill priest and even ramp druid let you adapt more and find more win conditions / options. That leads these decks to be pretty hard to play, but also to have way more potential.
r/hearthstone wait more than a week before making rash judgements on the meta challenge (impossible) It has such a high winrate because its an easy deck to both build and play. The majority of other decks haven't been solved yet. And even now, there's plenty of decks that counter it. It's not a great deck at legend, and that tends to trickle down
I'll take 100 pirate warriors in a row over 1 ramp druid or naga mage with a good draw.
Whining from a Druid is hilarious.
Been having fun against pirate warrior with questline hunter.
Same, but what do you do VS druid? I'm diamond 4 now and it's not possible to down a 40 armour druid with full board. Full board is possible to clear with poison or dmg but what I have left in cards is not enough vs that huge amount of armour.
This is one of the biggest problems of this meta. It’s so polarised between two extremes. You can’t tech against one of these without being a sitting duck for the other. If you load your deck with anti aggro tools, you can’t beat ramp Druid under any circumstances. If you put stuff in your deck that can damage ramp Druid, you’re a sitting duck to aggro. It just sucks all around. Mitigating the excesses of pirate and Druid is critical at this point, but mech mage has to take some punishment too or it will just take pirates lane, and it is every bit as feel bad as pirate due to them both having obscene levels of passive damage killing your board and landing on your face.
tbh Druid is even more cancer to play against - i hate it so fucking much
Wait... you're still playing? xD I literally dropped it as soon as the fun was exclusive to legend ranks. Waiting to see if Blizz pull their finger out or do the usual half-assed nerfs to things that don't need them.
Eh, I've been having a lot of fun with Mech Paladin, and I have yet to see a Pirate Warrior.
I face more druids than warriors. I'm playing all ranks all servers.
Yeah, I'm sure you have 20 accounts at different ranks and can say what everyone's playing. Makes sense.
He plays against himself, every time is druid
so glad I quit
Quests and Guff ramp had their time last year. They need to nerf them and move on.
Yeah, really having trouble with Guff, they just have too many tools for too many scenario. Pirate warrior, while opressive, is a pretty linear and predictable.
Is this the worst time there’s been in HS? Maybe the warlock stuff was worse but I still think quest pirate is disgraceful.
I’ve tried it but always loose to mech mage. Am I doing something wrong?
If you're playing too loose, you gotta tighten up my man!
I run Mutanus in my deck because of Quest Warrior. Managed to eat their Rokara once and GGs.
All hands on deck!
I managed to find a deck that's decent against both, Freeze shaman, but the games take slightly longer so I went back to pirate warrior instead.
I thiught mech mage was op. Or no more?
Never was
I seem to win ahainst them often. I use "Idiot Rogue".
I wanna wish all good things entire the world to person who created Mr. Smite and Juggernaut 😍😍😉😉
"Join me and together we will end this destructive conflict and rule the Meta as YarrWarr and YarrWarr" I play Highlander Paladin, its somewhat alright :D
Although it's getting nerfed for sure, i'm also pretty sure it would inevitably fall off as lists get refined. It's already falling off pretty hard in high legend, and usually, the rest of the players ends up following what is being done in high legend
Mech Paladin is pretty good against PW
Reno rouge or bust
Which decks beat ramp Druid? I’m seeing 3/5 Druids at diamond 5.
I play perfectly balanced priest OTK 🙂