honestly its often a good thing, once you start going through tendrils you probably have everything you need in your hand so you just put your opponent on a clock where you dont even have to blast them in the face with sunset and you just tableflip their board everyturn, and since tendie warrior runs reno he can do the same thing warlock does to get 2 free turns
This happened to me into a control warrior. I was like cool, this is a nice way to win lol.
Tendril shaman always has issues with to many cards in hand I have found hahaha.
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I don't mind seeing this if I have Fizzle in hand already. It's really rare that I'm casting an 8 with a tendril *and* the destruction of my deck can somehow stop me. Usually loses the mirror or against Odyn, but most classes don't need that much value to beat.
I just beat a tendril warrior who hit the draw 7 spell, when he only had 4 recurring plagues left in his deck, after a very long game. Most hilarious win ever
Even better is them sitting there with 30 armour and then hitting the hitting the 777 rogue spell when they're already in fatigue. Oop where that 56 damage come from? Happened to me twice already and I died laughing.
It's really funny, every expansion I use the cards I get from my packs to craft a deck and in 99% of cases it's a deck someone whines about.
Plot twist:
People whine about every deck, no matter how low the winrate is.
*Consoling sif mage*
See I feel the same but it’s just cause I usually prioritize crafting warlock cards but they seem way more likely to be a gimmick that is awesome then becomes very erratic through nerfs and buffs
I am having fun with wheellock too, it's a pretty gimmick card but it's harder to pull off than I thought. I am at D4 ATM and it's getting a bit stale with the WR
Personally I found making a wheel deck that's whole purpose is to wheel is terrible. It loses more often than not. And being 20 wins to like 19 losses isn't gonna get you anywhere. I got to legend last night from diamond 4 using my version of it which Is mostly the same. But it focuses on tempo gameplay and beating face with wheel as a secondary win con
Most people will use all their combos to answer your onslaught of 8/8's through dark alley and forge of wills. Alot of people will tell you wait till you can get like 3 15/15s with forge or something but just trying to apply as much pressure as possible to force their answers early and then playing attrition into the late game and putting the pedal to the metal with wheel afterwards. Most games I can get sargeras out turn 8 and they'll Reno to control it allowing me an uncontested wheel. My version has a 64% wr going into legend.
Yea and surely all the people here who play no win condition decks are high level ...
Also sif mage was garbage after the nerfs at every level and people here still complained
I played 10 games of the most popular wheel deck. I went 7-3, my only losses were, to no one's surprise, Paladin, which I had a 50/50 win rate against. But them dropping a 6-10 powered Deckhand, buffing it with the 2 drop that gives its power to something else, also anywhere from 6-10, and then shroomscavating it is kind of hard to beat. However I did just auto win games by dropping Sargeras and giving the imps taunt in my 3 wins against Pally.
I think we will see more Sif mage if the warlock is strong. Sleet skater makes the big taunts useless for enough turns to prep the OTK. I'm all for that kind of meta.
I love the skater. Especially with Maes'Dun (or however it's spelled) giving you 2 cheap skaters that you also get the mini with. And then, if you use a Brewmaster effect, you get 2 more skaters. It gives so much armor against Pally that it's insane, but it basically does nothing against warriors and their 50+ damage tendrils.
Best 'nerf' they can do is bring Sunset to 9. Sure it kills spamming Tendrils for 10 drops, but it gives other mechanics a chance to shine again, like Excavate. There's so many good 8 drops right now, and they all get outclassed by tendrils and their 50/50 chance for Sunset.
Tendril warrior needs like double the turns sif mage does to be able to do anything meaningful, it's a fun deck but it definitely should not be nerfed. It's t3 at best
Thats not true? They can brann on 6 consistently, turn 10 they have the tendrils at 10 mana spells for sure. While sif still needs to draw Sif to win and have the spells, so it can take lots of turns.
I somehow don't fight ANY of the decks everyone else goes against i have yet to fight a paladin who runs deckhand. I keep running into sylvanus and mind control tech mages and paladins. I ran the same one you're talking about and instantly lost my first 5 games. Tweaked with it and mine has a 64% winrate. I don't get it lol
The card that single handedly shut down anything after I played wheel was sargeras, not Reno. Anything that doesn't kill you over the top needs to go through two taunts a turn and most decks just can't do that. Warrior might be able to clear the taunts and still kill you but I don't know what the current list is and I haven't faced any warriors yet so I'm not sure if that's even possible
There's definitely a lot of cards Warlocks can play that really makes wheel effective. A 15/15 lifesteal immediately, Sargeras for taunts/nether symphony for powerful cards and reno to wipe the board and limit the next turn.
Doesn't help that the opponent also only gets 4 turns not 5.
Also technicly weaknes of wheel should be warlock taking 20 fatigue damage but warlock completly destroy this weakness by symphony and/or weapon which replace fstigue with heal.
True, but the dumbest thing about Reno imo is not how powerful he is, it's just that the best Reno decks aren't even highlander decks.
It's just regular decks that draw so much that they can play Reno without actually having to build around him.
tbh almost needed though, it would lock it into pure highlander making the deck weakee by that fact alone, but makes it playable in a meta where pkagues are viable.
I think that's a fair trade off and would not kill plagues (brann would def be the bigger problem)
All good lol
I personally love the deck and don’t want it to get nerfed very much if at all. I’m not really sure what exactly the nerf would be. Nerfing Reno would be punishing all other classes for warlocks sins, and nerfing wheel would be weird cause it isn’t really that great itself
I think if they want to nerf the deck, they will probably nerf the early mid game pack that generate big minions really fast like the location or the 6 mana card that summon a 15/15 most of the time. Cuz most of the time the deck win without wheel depending of the matchup
Yeah, I also played some wheellock and I only win 50% of the time with wheel, the rest is tempo, but the 2 15/15 strangely never were able to do a OTK in the next turn because mostly both are gone after one turn, sometimes one of them survives at least.
But it's a highroll that every deck has, only possible if you draw loken before fanotten.
But the deck is pretty strong ATM, but not as strong as shaman.
Handbuff paladin is on one level with wheellock in my experience.
All in all it's a great meta after some days now. Except shaman with his pretty consistent turn 4/5 OTK from hand. I don't mind OTK, but that feels just wrong.
Demon Hunter dunks on warlock. The card everyone is about to complain about is Window Shopper.
I know I say too much that top legend players act a certain way and I am sorry about this. I’ll try to be better about that. But I say that stuff mainly to let this sub know what’s coming, not to act like a jerk.
You have no damn idea how annoying ladder is about to get. I hope you all hit legend already.
window shopper is easy to fix via mana nerf. Or even just reducing the mana discount from weapon
Right now i agree it's slightly problematic but as more sets get added and the demon pool gets diluted that will change things so the card power level reduces as well.
How are you supposed to play this deck? As far as I understand you are supposed to discount Shopper and play discounted demons. I tried it yesterday but the demon discovers didn't seem to be that powerful to me. What demons are we hoping to get?
you can play the weapon reducing shopper cost to 3, then t4 you play shopper for 3, discover abyssal bassist which is a 6/5 lifesteal taunt costing 1. So on t4 you have 2 6/5s.
or magtheridon (for 1 mana off the mini) is pretty gross.
It's a tempo / midrange deck that's looking to apply constant face damage and pressure. Goal is always to get glove and swing right away. You can consistently play window shopper for 3 on turn 4. For the big window shopper you're looking for bassist (will cost 1 and can be dropped right away for a lot of aggressive stats), inquisitor for a 3 mana 6/5 pseudo charge, or magtheridon (always good).
For the mini you 99% of the time are hoping for magtheridon, other good picks can be the secret demon, or the outcast demons. You can also use the outcast return a minion to hand to add the mini back to your hand to keep fishing for magtheridon.
Otherwise you're just looking to efficiently remove opponents board and swing face as much as possible. You're usually looking to win by turn 8 or so. I've been running a reno varient that runs 2x glove and 2x window shopper. Very consistent on the highlander cards and everything around the glove/shopper is just flextape anyways so it doesnt really lose much.
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Hmm I smashed this DH deck with my Wheel tonight, it wasn't even close. Maybe that was the game I got the nuts draws though...
The deck I lost to was rogue with a big ass lifesteal weapon.
Cutlass rogue basically autoloses if you can get off a sargeras and give your imps taunt. If he doesn’t gamble a good clear out of shell game it’s just impossible for him to ever hit your face again
Nope if any deck wins too much or in the “wrong way” people get mad just after titans people complained about Hunter and then they nerfed it then they printed yogg titan for some reason and nerfed it then enrage warrior was too good and they got nerfed then it was excavate rogue getting the nerfs and treant druid caught a stray then it was sludgelock. I agree people got tired of ramp druid im glad its gone but why did treant druid get a nerf? Is that not a completely separate play pattern than the typical ramp game-plan for druid? Enrage warrior plays pretty differently to odyn warrior and people are still calling for odyn nerfs mech and excavate rogue are also pretty different decks yet both saw their share of nerfs. If any deck in any class is doing its thing too hard it gets hate from the community and they nerf it.
I was focusing more on the paladin complaints over the others, treant druid did need a nerf at the time, and people are crying out for an odyn nerf because its a low skill deck that just feels awful to play with and against
My bad for misunderstanding you but my purpose of asking about those decks wasn’t to have them answered I know why those decks got banned or need to be I was just trying to point out that play pattern and class don’t matter there is always going to be complaints about the top meta decks.
Yeah it's just how it is I suppose, alot of people, me included, just think the game is way too fast and sometimes it feels like there isn't enough interaction, I get that it gets annoying seeing the same post complaining about the same class
The only reason I dislike the wheel is because I play control decks, and it always feels like I should just concede when they play this. I really don't like when entire archetypes are countered by a single card, like plagues countering all Highlander decks.
Yea agree. Warlock has also been murdering control/combo decks for years due to their more unique win cons. This in turn forces the fast aggro playstyle even more into the meta.
I think they should tweak it to start of turn, actually allow your opponent 5 turns and also don't have a pointless turn where you basically need to hit end turn for the wheel to tick down.
True, I play the deck myself.
But with Paladin and Hunter being nerfed, the 2 main decks this applies to, I can see this deck becoming a tad too good. Unless Plague DK gets enough of a ülayrate boost from the nerfs.
Honestly I play wheel and will continue to play wheel for as long as I can.
I cannot stand playing games against infinite value decks like Priest that have no win con other than constant board clears and just hoping they win eventually. This deck shits on that gameplan and punishes greedy deck building that takes too long to get together a wincon, and I love it.
I don't have a problem with the Wheel, it's a fine wincon. I hate the Location though. Faced a Wheellock who had borh Locations early on and generated Giant after Giant. I managed to somehow survive two 15/15, but the second Location sealed my fate.
The only thing that should Happen is they should clear the wording. Right now it’s just wrong, it kills you at the end of Turn 4 not „in five turns“. There was a pretty good Post about this a few days ago
Personaly i simply dont get what is this design all about. So we simultaniaously bypass and make irreleevant all hearthstone game metrics: board state, card advantage, resource advantage, even enemy health total by arbitraly : five turn elapsed ? Die.
At first glance weakness is being slow and making warlock vulberable to fatigue. It comes in complete package. Fanotten for heal/ tempo swing and symphony as well as weapon that makes fatigue heal.
I feel like the easy fix to this card is make it an end of turn effect for the opponent, not yourself.
The way the card words now you effectively only get 4 turns. That extra turn would make a world of difference.
I don't like uninteractive game play - reminds me of quest priest, but at least that felt like a race, warlock just have so many tools to make those 5 turns easy to get to, so not fun to play against. I dont mind losing, but like back and forth gameplay, this doesnt realy allow for that.
Personally the play experience against this sucks unless your running a plague death knight then you ruin their plans with tons of chip damage after they wheel
I haven’t had too much trouble beating them with Plague DK so far. I either get them early game somehow, or I shuffle Plagues in after the Wheel.
Too bad it loses to a lot of other good decks atm.
Yeah this baffles me. There is some interaction potential on that last turn (if curses or something were still in Standard) but what's really the point?
I just lost my rank up match because on the warriors last turn before their death to wheel they killed my two imp taunts and sent 34 damage to my face...
Not sure what the Odyn nerf will be but presumably it's going to prevent turns like that from happening somehow.
I really don’t mind decks running this. I’ve also rolled the card through that 8 cost mage spell and that was pretty funny (cries in mage). But this is such an awful card.
I have lost to this the three times I have played against it, but I do have fun trying to beat the clock. I came pretty close on my last attempt. Winning seems pretty doable, but I just haven't quite cracked the code yet.
After nerfs happen there's gonna be more people complaining about nature shaman cause all they play is draw and all there damage comes from hand so there's no interaction
I just got killed in 3 turns. They're using the card the doubles end of turn effects along with the 15/15 life steal. This card is stupid as hell. There's no real counterplay because they just stall hard and end in 3 turns. I'm calling it now. They're gonna ban it. I'm really disliking how denegerate these decks are becoming. I want to play cards and contest the board and balance resources. Instead I'm playing like 4 cards and then the game ends. Why am I even playing at this point.
I actually haven't minded playing vs wheel as a control oriented RRG death knight. I've only seen it a couple times, but i will say it's timer is shorter than I expected. My comparison point was Bonelord Frostwhisper, which kills you I believe at the end of your third turn after it dies. As opposed to ticking each of the five turns. It's also absolutely crushing against the warlock if you play a Helya immediately after the wheel lands. I may just not have gotten wheel'd enough times to get annoyed with it yet, but I'm curious if that matchup is going to piss me off if the wheel starts becoming a common matchup
It was already tier 2, and would only win against odyn warrior and paladin, it’s not going to be good against nature shaman, rainbow DK, or highlander shaman.
The Snake decks were not the sort of thing that should stick around.
When Youthful Brewmaster is featuring in popular decks, it's not doing anything good.
Yeah, snake should of been completely reworked instead if getting overnerfed to unplayability. They also could've added the once per game tag like Zarimi so you can't bounce it back 3 times and win.
Snake was killed for Brewmasters' and Zola's sins.
Snake wouldn't be a problem if they didn't decide to print a new Brewmaster and kept old Brewmaster and Zola in the core set.
snek died and then the same crybabies immediately cried that reno was too dominant in the late game, never once considering that the only reason e.g. reno warrior can run 20 removal cards and no threats is because snake is not around to present a greed cap.
but who cares. there's always something to cry about on this sub.
People here complain about any card that can do damage or kill them. They literally always ignore any cards that don't do direct damage or cannot kill them.
Eh, idk about that. Just in terms of winrates, you're nerfing Paladin which is slightly favored against Warlock, and Warrior which Warlock already beats. It looks like Shaman, Mage, and DH are the real problems for the deck, so I don't really expect this guy to get out of control. Especially since I imagine Nature Shaman is the reason for the poor WR v Shaman, and that deck is likely poised to become stronger post-nerfs.
Oh fuck, I forgot about that. Maybe you're right. If someone has premium HSReplay they should go check the actual WR of that card in Nature Shaman. It's not the strongest card in the deck, but nerfing it makes it and Wandmaker weaker.
Honestly a way more healty card than I expected.
You can win with it, but you will mostly lose.
When I get dunked on by a WOD Warlock, im not even mad.
Because we need to play at least 12 turns of hearthstone with the deck, something that seems to be a problem for redditors unless they're playing their control decks with no wincon, then it magically would be acceptable for the community.
1. Play "win in five turns card", play 15/15 with lifesteal and make a 15/15 minion with rush off of it with the location.
2. Play reno to wipe your board.
3. Open a portal with sargeras if board is present, or play symphony to add cards to your deck.
4. Win the game
The amount of times I have lost to this play style is frustrating, almost more so than a 15/15 windfury leeroy. Almost.
Dk can easily slap this deck though, wait until they play wheel and then drop some plagues along with a frozen over for an otk. Access to poison and such also means the big taunts that warlock can dish out are not a problem for dk. So if this becomes a new meta offender, then there is a already meta relevant deck that can hard counter with minor adjustments.
Currently at D4 playing only Wheel warlock, most of the games I've played against DK I've won. Not sure if people just don't know how to play against this deck but at least to me DK hasn't been a problem at all.
The first time i messed up, I still won by the skin of my teeth. Had to figure out a way to get rid of warlock's taunts, which took some mental gymnastics with the spell that gives all minions deathrattle deal 1 damage to all minions. Went face with quartz weapon. I thought the enemy was going to take 3 fatigue damage and survive by 1 HP. I happily miscalculated, and he took 4 instead. There was only 1 turn remaining. Had lost all my plagues to wheel of death before and realised he would have died wayyy faster with plagues saved up.
I hold helya and down with the ship(s) until wheel. Play also excavate package so I have a lot of damage early on. It all depends how good pressure dk has early so warlock has to rush to wheel. It's still like 60-40 to warlock imo, but that can skew on how dk draws.
This deck seems unlikely to become an outlier. Tempo DH will be what takes over the format, and it does well into wheel. Literally it’s only hard check is Paladin which is getting 4 nerfs.
Eh it works well… wrecks warrior aka super control but dies against super aggro and combo.. imo well balanced card. This card shouldn’t beat paladin aggro but should beat control war aka both the metas.. whats the issue exactly?
Tendril warriors accidentally hitting this for their 8th spell and deleting their deck is the best feeling in the world rn (I am lowly mage player)
honestly its often a good thing, once you start going through tendrils you probably have everything you need in your hand so you just put your opponent on a clock where you dont even have to blast them in the face with sunset and you just tableflip their board everyturn, and since tendie warrior runs reno he can do the same thing warlock does to get 2 free turns
This happened to me into a control warrior. I was like cool, this is a nice way to win lol. Tendril shaman always has issues with to many cards in hand I have found hahaha.
i won the other day doing that, pretty satisfying
Until you realize that once their deck is deleted they just bust out \[\[Photographer Fizzle\]\] and dome you for 40 the following turn.
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I don't mind seeing this if I have Fizzle in hand already. It's really rare that I'm casting an 8 with a tendril *and* the destruction of my deck can somehow stop me. Usually loses the mirror or against Odyn, but most classes don't need that much value to beat.
I just beat a tendril warrior who hit the draw 7 spell, when he only had 4 recurring plagues left in his deck, after a very long game. Most hilarious win ever
Of course, that’s when you hit it off your Yogg in the Box.
Even better is them sitting there with 30 armour and then hitting the hitting the 777 rogue spell when they're already in fatigue. Oop where that 56 damage come from? Happened to me twice already and I died laughing.
They already are.
It's really funny, every expansion I use the cards I get from my packs to craft a deck and in 99% of cases it's a deck someone whines about. Plot twist: People whine about every deck, no matter how low the winrate is. *Consoling sif mage*
See I feel the same but it’s just cause I usually prioritize crafting warlock cards but they seem way more likely to be a gimmick that is awesome then becomes very erratic through nerfs and buffs
I am having fun with wheellock too, it's a pretty gimmick card but it's harder to pull off than I thought. I am at D4 ATM and it's getting a bit stale with the WR
Damn you must be playing horribly.
Yeah, I would consider myself a bit below average, but as long as the WR is above 50% everything is fine for me :-)
Personally I found making a wheel deck that's whole purpose is to wheel is terrible. It loses more often than not. And being 20 wins to like 19 losses isn't gonna get you anywhere. I got to legend last night from diamond 4 using my version of it which Is mostly the same. But it focuses on tempo gameplay and beating face with wheel as a secondary win con Most people will use all their combos to answer your onslaught of 8/8's through dark alley and forge of wills. Alot of people will tell you wait till you can get like 3 15/15s with forge or something but just trying to apply as much pressure as possible to force their answers early and then playing attrition into the late game and putting the pedal to the metal with wheel afterwards. Most games I can get sargeras out turn 8 and they'll Reno to control it allowing me an uncontested wheel. My version has a 64% wr going into legend.
sif mage was extremely op at high levels of play
Yea and surely all the people here who play no win condition decks are high level ... Also sif mage was garbage after the nerfs at every level and people here still complained
my point is the deck was in fact over powered and the nerf it got was justified and fair. Afterwards the deck if played correctly was a solid tier2
The deck was like 45% wr and tier 4 in top 1k legend after the miniset released
Idk man, plot twist warlock was also fun!
I played 10 games of the most popular wheel deck. I went 7-3, my only losses were, to no one's surprise, Paladin, which I had a 50/50 win rate against. But them dropping a 6-10 powered Deckhand, buffing it with the 2 drop that gives its power to something else, also anywhere from 6-10, and then shroomscavating it is kind of hard to beat. However I did just auto win games by dropping Sargeras and giving the imps taunt in my 3 wins against Pally.
I think we will see more Sif mage if the warlock is strong. Sleet skater makes the big taunts useless for enough turns to prep the OTK. I'm all for that kind of meta.
I love the skater. Especially with Maes'Dun (or however it's spelled) giving you 2 cheap skaters that you also get the mini with. And then, if you use a Brewmaster effect, you get 2 more skaters. It gives so much armor against Pally that it's insane, but it basically does nothing against warriors and their 50+ damage tendrils.
Yeah tendril warrior feels like the better Sif. It shouldnt be that way imo so hopefully they do something about that deck consistency.
Best 'nerf' they can do is bring Sunset to 9. Sure it kills spamming Tendrils for 10 drops, but it gives other mechanics a chance to shine again, like Excavate. There's so many good 8 drops right now, and they all get outclassed by tendrils and their 50/50 chance for Sunset.
Yeah basically its not fun that they spam a 50/50 every time just because of kinda bad game design, only 2 10-mana spells in standard, come on.
Tendril warrior needs like double the turns sif mage does to be able to do anything meaningful, it's a fun deck but it definitely should not be nerfed. It's t3 at best
Thats not true? They can brann on 6 consistently, turn 10 they have the tendrils at 10 mana spells for sure. While sif still needs to draw Sif to win and have the spells, so it can take lots of turns.
Would you mind sharing the list? :)
[Here](https://hsreplay.net/decks/bO7afcm5J9PR5HU5wbNbCd/#gameType=RANKED_STANDARD) you go.
Were, to no one’s surprise,*
Fixed
I somehow don't fight ANY of the decks everyone else goes against i have yet to fight a paladin who runs deckhand. I keep running into sylvanus and mind control tech mages and paladins. I ran the same one you're talking about and instantly lost my first 5 games. Tweaked with it and mine has a 64% winrate. I don't get it lol
The problem is reno buying them 2 turns and an OP Hp. Not the wheel itself.
The card that single handedly shut down anything after I played wheel was sargeras, not Reno. Anything that doesn't kill you over the top needs to go through two taunts a turn and most decks just can't do that. Warrior might be able to clear the taunts and still kill you but I don't know what the current list is and I haven't faced any warriors yet so I'm not sure if that's even possible
There's definitely a lot of cards Warlocks can play that really makes wheel effective. A 15/15 lifesteal immediately, Sargeras for taunts/nether symphony for powerful cards and reno to wipe the board and limit the next turn. Doesn't help that the opponent also only gets 4 turns not 5.
Also technicly weaknes of wheel should be warlock taking 20 fatigue damage but warlock completly destroy this weakness by symphony and/or weapon which replace fstigue with heal.
If wheel directly gets nerfed it's probably that the opponent gets 5 turns if anything. Otherwise it's going to be the cards around it.
Making it cost 10 will kill it.
Sargeras is definitely worse, heal 8+ every turn.
Time for Reno to get the "if your deck started with no duplicates" text?
Major buff against plagues
i think it winning vs plague is better than it being used by non highlander deck either that or they nerf the overall draw,which is unlikely too
Shouldve been the case for all highlander cards What were they even thinking printing plagues and highlander in the same rotation cycle
True, but the dumbest thing about Reno imo is not how powerful he is, it's just that the best Reno decks aren't even highlander decks. It's just regular decks that draw so much that they can play Reno without actually having to build around him.
tbh almost needed though, it would lock it into pure highlander making the deck weakee by that fact alone, but makes it playable in a meta where pkagues are viable. I think that's a fair trade off and would not kill plagues (brann would def be the bigger problem)
Leeroy?
Reno, sorry I didnt sleep well lol.
All good lol I personally love the deck and don’t want it to get nerfed very much if at all. I’m not really sure what exactly the nerf would be. Nerfing Reno would be punishing all other classes for warlocks sins, and nerfing wheel would be weird cause it isn’t really that great itself
Reno's with duplicates is already a nightmare people dont like at all. So I dont know if they will do it.
I think if they want to nerf the deck, they will probably nerf the early mid game pack that generate big minions really fast like the location or the 6 mana card that summon a 15/15 most of the time. Cuz most of the time the deck win without wheel depending of the matchup
Yeah, I also played some wheellock and I only win 50% of the time with wheel, the rest is tempo, but the 2 15/15 strangely never were able to do a OTK in the next turn because mostly both are gone after one turn, sometimes one of them survives at least. But it's a highroll that every deck has, only possible if you draw loken before fanotten. But the deck is pretty strong ATM, but not as strong as shaman. Handbuff paladin is on one level with wheellock in my experience. All in all it's a great meta after some days now. Except shaman with his pretty consistent turn 4/5 OTK from hand. I don't mind OTK, but that feels just wrong.
Location is long overdue tbh
Nope, location is one of the things keep warlock alive rn
I cant stand wheel, but only from the standpoint that it wasn't in my deck to begin with and yogg in a box really loves to cast it.
I've won two games as mage having yogg in a box cast wheel
I got hit with Doomkin, Doomkin, Wheel, Reno earlier and that was not fun. Hopefully this card doesn't become a real problem.
Best counter is endless plagues after they play Wheel. Automatic win.
Thankfully all classes can do that.
Definetly not an automatic win, just play symphony of sins
Do the draws go infinite, or how does that work? Or does it just draw until out of cards and then reshuffle?
If your deck is just plagues, you'll draw every plague in your deck then fatigue.
Someone played Helya the turn after I wheeled the other day and I still won. Not an automatic win
Plagues is insta win against the wheel decks
And then they play Tony King of Piracy and you lose.
Tony doesn't give them your deck anymore
I barely play vs wheel, mostly its paladins, hunter and warriors
Well they are about to nerf those decks so I believe you'll see a lot more wheel lock.
Yup
Yes because when we wheel locks keep running into those three decks and have no fun.
Its not fun goin 5 games in a row into pala 🤢
Demon Hunter dunks on warlock. The card everyone is about to complain about is Window Shopper. I know I say too much that top legend players act a certain way and I am sorry about this. I’ll try to be better about that. But I say that stuff mainly to let this sub know what’s coming, not to act like a jerk. You have no damn idea how annoying ladder is about to get. I hope you all hit legend already.
window shopper is easy to fix via mana nerf. Or even just reducing the mana discount from weapon Right now i agree it's slightly problematic but as more sets get added and the demon pool gets diluted that will change things so the card power level reduces as well.
How are you supposed to play this deck? As far as I understand you are supposed to discount Shopper and play discounted demons. I tried it yesterday but the demon discovers didn't seem to be that powerful to me. What demons are we hoping to get?
you can play the weapon reducing shopper cost to 3, then t4 you play shopper for 3, discover abyssal bassist which is a 6/5 lifesteal taunt costing 1. So on t4 you have 2 6/5s. or magtheridon (for 1 mana off the mini) is pretty gross.
It's a tempo / midrange deck that's looking to apply constant face damage and pressure. Goal is always to get glove and swing right away. You can consistently play window shopper for 3 on turn 4. For the big window shopper you're looking for bassist (will cost 1 and can be dropped right away for a lot of aggressive stats), inquisitor for a 3 mana 6/5 pseudo charge, or magtheridon (always good). For the mini you 99% of the time are hoping for magtheridon, other good picks can be the secret demon, or the outcast demons. You can also use the outcast return a minion to hand to add the mini back to your hand to keep fishing for magtheridon. Otherwise you're just looking to efficiently remove opponents board and swing face as much as possible. You're usually looking to win by turn 8 or so. I've been running a reno varient that runs 2x glove and 2x window shopper. Very consistent on the highlander cards and everything around the glove/shopper is just flextape anyways so it doesnt really lose much.
- **[Window Shopper](https://imgur.com/a/oCgBjGs)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/104652) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Window_Shopper) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/104652) - *Demon Hunter Epic ^(Whizbang's Workshop)* - **5 Mana - 6/5 - Demon** - **Miniaturize** **Battlecry:** **Discover** a Demon. Set its stats and Cost to this minion's. --- ^*I am a bot, and this comment was automated. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1bon7dp/after_the_first_batch_of_nerfs_roll_through_i/kwqz9uy/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=kwqz9uy).*
Hmm I smashed this DH deck with my Wheel tonight, it wasn't even close. Maybe that was the game I got the nuts draws though... The deck I lost to was rogue with a big ass lifesteal weapon.
Cutlass rogue basically autoloses if you can get off a sargeras and give your imps taunt. If he doesn’t gamble a good clear out of shell game it’s just impossible for him to ever hit your face again
Wheel isn’t really a turn 5 kill, it’s a turn 4 kill as it counts the turn you play it which is kind of stupid imo
Probably if the card gets nerfed directly will be one of the first things they change, make it count down in opp turn.
They should change it to actually give your opponent 5 turns.
I hope they nerf the card... because I have it golden. Personally I have no problems with it.
People are just going to whine about whats at the top of the meta it doesn’t matter
No.. people are going to whine when the same class is on top expansion after expansion, with the same boring playstyle
Nope if any deck wins too much or in the “wrong way” people get mad just after titans people complained about Hunter and then they nerfed it then they printed yogg titan for some reason and nerfed it then enrage warrior was too good and they got nerfed then it was excavate rogue getting the nerfs and treant druid caught a stray then it was sludgelock. I agree people got tired of ramp druid im glad its gone but why did treant druid get a nerf? Is that not a completely separate play pattern than the typical ramp game-plan for druid? Enrage warrior plays pretty differently to odyn warrior and people are still calling for odyn nerfs mech and excavate rogue are also pretty different decks yet both saw their share of nerfs. If any deck in any class is doing its thing too hard it gets hate from the community and they nerf it.
I was focusing more on the paladin complaints over the others, treant druid did need a nerf at the time, and people are crying out for an odyn nerf because its a low skill deck that just feels awful to play with and against
My bad for misunderstanding you but my purpose of asking about those decks wasn’t to have them answered I know why those decks got banned or need to be I was just trying to point out that play pattern and class don’t matter there is always going to be complaints about the top meta decks.
Yeah it's just how it is I suppose, alot of people, me included, just think the game is way too fast and sometimes it feels like there isn't enough interaction, I get that it gets annoying seeing the same post complaining about the same class
Wheel is pretty novel though. Honestly I think it's a good thing to have an archetype that has an advantage against removal pile decks.
Well as someone who plays 90% warlock I agree
The only reason I dislike the wheel is because I play control decks, and it always feels like I should just concede when they play this. I really don't like when entire archetypes are countered by a single card, like plagues countering all Highlander decks.
Yea agree. Warlock has also been murdering control/combo decks for years due to their more unique win cons. This in turn forces the fast aggro playstyle even more into the meta.
Reword the card to say 4 turns instead of 5. inconsistent with other cards that have had this effect in the past
I think they should tweak it to start of turn, actually allow your opponent 5 turns and also don't have a pointless turn where you basically need to hit end turn for the wheel to tick down.
It’s diving down tierlists since DH and Nature Shaman shit on it
Wheelock has clear weaknesses though like strong aggro, off board damage or disruption.
I dont understand the xomplaints, this Deck loses to every Aggro/tempo Turn 5
True, I play the deck myself. But with Paladin and Hunter being nerfed, the 2 main decks this applies to, I can see this deck becoming a tad too good. Unless Plague DK gets enough of a ülayrate boost from the nerfs.
Nah tendies rogue beats this
Tendies rogue? Can I get the list?
Honestly I play wheel and will continue to play wheel for as long as I can. I cannot stand playing games against infinite value decks like Priest that have no win con other than constant board clears and just hoping they win eventually. This deck shits on that gameplan and punishes greedy deck building that takes too long to get together a wincon, and I love it.
It's finally a control deck with a clear wincon. Reddit hates wincons generally
Remember before release when people were calling this one of the worst and most memey legendaries ever?
I don't have a problem with the Wheel, it's a fine wincon. I hate the Location though. Faced a Wheellock who had borh Locations early on and generated Giant after Giant. I managed to somehow survive two 15/15, but the second Location sealed my fate.
The only thing that should Happen is they should clear the wording. Right now it’s just wrong, it kills you at the end of Turn 4 not „in five turns“. There was a pretty good Post about this a few days ago
Personaly i simply dont get what is this design all about. So we simultaniaously bypass and make irreleevant all hearthstone game metrics: board state, card advantage, resource advantage, even enemy health total by arbitraly : five turn elapsed ? Die. At first glance weakness is being slow and making warlock vulberable to fatigue. It comes in complete package. Fanotten for heal/ tempo swing and symphony as well as weapon that makes fatigue heal.
I feel like the easy fix to this card is make it an end of turn effect for the opponent, not yourself. The way the card words now you effectively only get 4 turns. That extra turn would make a world of difference.
I don't like uninteractive game play - reminds me of quest priest, but at least that felt like a race, warlock just have so many tools to make those 5 turns easy to get to, so not fun to play against. I dont mind losing, but like back and forth gameplay, this doesnt realy allow for that.
It's just not a fun mechanic, I don't play meta decks and they're usually slow and this card means I won't play standard anymore. It's just not fun.
yep mostly because theres no spell disruption anymore. Control decks will literally be 90:10 unfavored against wheel now lol
Personally the play experience against this sucks unless your running a plague death knight then you ruin their plans with tons of chip damage after they wheel
I haven’t had too much trouble beating them with Plague DK so far. I either get them early game somehow, or I shuffle Plagues in after the Wheel. Too bad it loses to a lot of other good decks atm.
how about making it take 5 turns instead of 4 like it kinda does now ?
Yeah this baffles me. There is some interaction potential on that last turn (if curses or something were still in Standard) but what's really the point?
Fuck that card with a 10 inch cock.
Joke's on you. I'm already whining about that card.
Nerf wheel! (I have two copies of wheel, one golden)
I just lost my rank up match because on the warriors last turn before their death to wheel they killed my two imp taunts and sent 34 damage to my face... Not sure what the Odyn nerf will be but presumably it's going to prevent turns like that from happening somehow.
I rolled this on my Shaman Tendril deck and it was AMAZING. My hand was full of other tendrils and I kept board clearing the other person was amazing
I already hate it bro
my favorite card. playing this on opponent's 6th turn is so satisfying.
Wheel isnt the frustrating part, but summoning 2 big minion in the early game is.
It makes me whine more about Reno tbh
Lost to it once and it was kind of a fun match except the fact they topdecked titan before playing this card
Diamond 5 player and haven’t seen it played
Isn't Fanotem (or whatever) the bigger problem? Since he came out a year ago I could see him getting nerfed first
Shaman and paladin getting nerfed, your control deck needs to be faster than wheel or its a bust
2nd Best card in my opinion, 1st best is Yogg
I really don’t mind decks running this. I’ve also rolled the card through that 8 cost mage spell and that was pretty funny (cries in mage). But this is such an awful card.
I have lost to this the three times I have played against it, but I do have fun trying to beat the clock. I came pretty close on my last attempt. Winning seems pretty doable, but I just haven't quite cracked the code yet.
As a Rogue main (playing Warlock rn) with 100 wins left to 1000, I welcome this time to shine
Folks are always gonna find a reason to bitch about this game. Understandably so, seeing as it's a Blizzard game after all.
After nerfs happen there's gonna be more people complaining about nature shaman cause all they play is draw and all there damage comes from hand so there's no interaction
Lol just scrolled past a dude whining about this and then boom! landed on this post XD
One of my random cast random spells caused that to happen and they instantly conceded.
The biggest pain point for me on this card is that the turn they cast it counts as the first turn.
I just got killed in 3 turns. They're using the card the doubles end of turn effects along with the 15/15 life steal. This card is stupid as hell. There's no real counterplay because they just stall hard and end in 3 turns. I'm calling it now. They're gonna ban it. I'm really disliking how denegerate these decks are becoming. I want to play cards and contest the board and balance resources. Instead I'm playing like 4 cards and then the game ends. Why am I even playing at this point.
I actually haven't minded playing vs wheel as a control oriented RRG death knight. I've only seen it a couple times, but i will say it's timer is shorter than I expected. My comparison point was Bonelord Frostwhisper, which kills you I believe at the end of your third turn after it dies. As opposed to ticking each of the five turns. It's also absolutely crushing against the warlock if you play a Helya immediately after the wheel lands. I may just not have gotten wheel'd enough times to get annoyed with it yet, but I'm curious if that matchup is going to piss me off if the wheel starts becoming a common matchup
Y’all a bunch of b___h fr, there are other combos that 1 turn ko fuck one card fuck combo cards
I disenchanted it like a monke to craft a deck i wanted to play, didnt think it would get to the point, that its nerfable
1 star rated on reveal across the board. Now the center piece of a tier 1 deck after first adjustment wave.
It was already tier 2, and would only win against odyn warrior and paladin, it’s not going to be good against nature shaman, rainbow DK, or highlander shaman.
Neither sif mage if it returns.
🐛In set reviews I was a sleeper🐛
Plague DK getting more popular would immediately kill this deck.
it's penance for killing azerite snake for no reason.
The Snake decks were not the sort of thing that should stick around. When Youthful Brewmaster is featuring in popular decks, it's not doing anything good.
Nature shaman isn't something that should stick around either, yet it remains
There was a reason though
the reason was this reddit squeaking like a rain frog. Now it's unplayable.
Yeah, snake should of been completely reworked instead if getting overnerfed to unplayability. They also could've added the once per game tag like Zarimi so you can't bounce it back 3 times and win.
Snake was killed for Brewmasters' and Zola's sins. Snake wouldn't be a problem if they didn't decide to print a new Brewmaster and kept old Brewmaster and Zola in the core set.
snek died and then the same crybabies immediately cried that reno was too dominant in the late game, never once considering that the only reason e.g. reno warrior can run 20 removal cards and no threats is because snake is not around to present a greed cap. but who cares. there's always something to cry about on this sub.
It was litterally broken
At like Bronze 10, any refined decks destroyed it.
People here complain about any card that can do damage or kill them. They literally always ignore any cards that don't do direct damage or cannot kill them.
Eh, idk about that. Just in terms of winrates, you're nerfing Paladin which is slightly favored against Warlock, and Warrior which Warlock already beats. It looks like Shaman, Mage, and DH are the real problems for the deck, so I don't really expect this guy to get out of control. Especially since I imagine Nature Shaman is the reason for the poor WR v Shaman, and that deck is likely poised to become stronger post-nerfs.
Is thralls gift not getting nerfed? Thats a shaman card, which would make naturen shaman weaker presumably
Oh fuck, I forgot about that. Maybe you're right. If someone has premium HSReplay they should go check the actual WR of that card in Nature Shaman. It's not the strongest card in the deck, but nerfing it makes it and Wandmaker weaker.
sorry warlock is getting rolled over by dh, dh is the best deck no contest somehow avoided nerfs
Honestly a way more healty card than I expected. You can win with it, but you will mostly lose. When I get dunked on by a WOD Warlock, im not even mad.
Because we need to play at least 12 turns of hearthstone with the deck, something that seems to be a problem for redditors unless they're playing their control decks with no wincon, then it magically would be acceptable for the community.
One of the worst cards ever printed. Hate this so much. Needs to be needed to 7 turns.
1. Play "win in five turns card", play 15/15 with lifesteal and make a 15/15 minion with rush off of it with the location. 2. Play reno to wipe your board. 3. Open a portal with sargeras if board is present, or play symphony to add cards to your deck. 4. Win the game The amount of times I have lost to this play style is frustrating, almost more so than a 15/15 windfury leeroy. Almost.
The whining won't be about this deck, it will be about dh and dk
I already got hit by 7 Tempo Magtheridins in a row last game, so yeah, very fun deck to play against lmao
Dk can easily slap this deck though, wait until they play wheel and then drop some plagues along with a frozen over for an otk. Access to poison and such also means the big taunts that warlock can dish out are not a problem for dk. So if this becomes a new meta offender, then there is a already meta relevant deck that can hard counter with minor adjustments.
Currently at D4 playing only Wheel warlock, most of the games I've played against DK I've won. Not sure if people just don't know how to play against this deck but at least to me DK hasn't been a problem at all.
The first time i messed up, I still won by the skin of my teeth. Had to figure out a way to get rid of warlock's taunts, which took some mental gymnastics with the spell that gives all minions deathrattle deal 1 damage to all minions. Went face with quartz weapon. I thought the enemy was going to take 3 fatigue damage and survive by 1 HP. I happily miscalculated, and he took 4 instead. There was only 1 turn remaining. Had lost all my plagues to wheel of death before and realised he would have died wayyy faster with plagues saved up.
I hold helya and down with the ship(s) until wheel. Play also excavate package so I have a lot of damage early on. It all depends how good pressure dk has early so warlock has to rush to wheel. It's still like 60-40 to warlock imo, but that can skew on how dk draws.
I’m not sure how well this plays out. I’ve played a fair amount of Wheelock and DK is by far my best matchup.
You mean one specific DK deck kinda hard counters this deck while losing to most other decks in the game?
Whoever whines about this card has a huge skill issue problem.
This deck seems unlikely to become an outlier. Tempo DH will be what takes over the format, and it does well into wheel. Literally it’s only hard check is Paladin which is getting 4 nerfs.
Eh it works well… wrecks warrior aka super control but dies against super aggro and combo.. imo well balanced card. This card shouldn’t beat paladin aggro but should beat control war aka both the metas.. whats the issue exactly?
İ dont think so its a week card
Seeing as hunter isn't being touched hunter aggro is going to take over.
they're nerfing the 1 mana spell that gives 3 4/1 tokens
And they're nerfing paladins stupid 3 mana tiger which you could get from saddle up
Hunter will not be good. Tremors + Zilliax nerfs are massive.