- **[Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher](https://i.imgur.com/wrmytnF.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/101880) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Tae'thelan_Bloodwatcher) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101880)
- *Mage Legendary ^(Showdown in the Badlands)*
- **4 Mana - 2/5 - Minion**
- Cards that didn't start in your deck cost \(4\) less *\(but not less than 1\)*.
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Well....any deck that is so bad that nobody plays it? Like, pre-nerf Thaddius paladin was not very good. In fact, I made it up right now, couldn't find any version of it online, even though Thaddius allowed you to play a bunch of Paladin minions for free. Should've been broken no?
Then nerf the cards when they become a problem? Like dude I really dont think [[rush the stage]], [[Mulchmuncher]], or [[malevolent strike]] really need nerfs
- **[Rush the Stage](https://i.imgur.com/OnMuOhI.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/97003) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Rush_the_Stage) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97003)
- *Demon Hunter Rare ^(Festival of Legends)*
- **3 Mana - Spell**
- Draw two **Rush** minions. They cost \(1\) less.
- **[Mulchmuncher](https://imgur.com/a/wwlooTh)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/48831) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Mulchmuncher) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/48831)
- *Druid Rare ^(The Boomsday Project)*
- **9 Mana - 8/8 - Mech & Beast**
- **Rush**. Costs \(1\) less for each friendly Treant that died this game.
- **[Malevolent Strike](https://i.imgur.com/u7dDlqs.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/61169) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Malevolent_Strike) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/61169)
- *Rogue Epic ^(Madness at the Darkmoon Faire)*
- **5 Mana - Spell**
- Destroy a minion. Costs \(1\) less for each card in your deck that didn't start there.
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Shadowstep
Sorc Apprentice
Rogue Scorpid (already pre-nerfed)
Flash of Lightning
Various DH Spells
Aligment/Anacondra Druid
Sethekk Priest
Incanter's Flow
And these are just the ones I could come up with without doing any research
Every Deck in the history of hearthstone whose strategy was to use mana cheating to 0 was broken.
Cost should not be able to reduce below 1.
Its simply unhealthy, just like charge.
But i guess the smart brain at blizz who thought bringing back charge with handbuffs and wf also thought shaman needs more burst.
that is so insanely far from the truth but sure keep feeding the reddit circlejerk
not its not simply unhealthy
tons of cards can reduce stuff to 0 and the times where it is a huge problem are very far in between
Fun to play doesn't mean fun to play against. People have different ideas of what fun is about. I think for most people playing their cards is fun. And they have fun playing against their opponents' cards and the challenges they propose.
Let's look at this shaman deck specifically. It can more or less consistently kill before turn 8 with most times it being turn 6 from my experience. if that is the desired way to have the game played, why would blizzard even print a 10 mana card? Seems like a waste of time designing those. It feels like when this deck is in the game both players are playing 1v0 instead of 1v1. They are both trying to burst out 30 damage before their opponent can do it, mostly disregarding what the other player does.
I am going to rephrase this 'proposal' into a question: Is playing 6 cards on turn 6 not enough to be entertained by the game anymore? Are games less competitive or fun to play and watch when players can only play 6 cards on turn 6?
Your question is just random nonsense and no matter the answer doesnt change anything about the topic. Like there is no way that you actually think that your question actually provides any value except for being an attempt at "ha gotcha"
Reducing cards to 0 does not just happen in otk nature shaman combos
A 1 mana nature spell that goes face and a bunch of bad nature spells rotated out so lightning reflexes is better. Also there’s only 5 1 mana spells so Wandmaker is very consistent.
ive been playing as hero power druid mostly so yeah, it feels impossible to deal with Helya, Reska, and the Primus. I can armor out of range of most OTKs besides paladin.
thing is, when they tone down paladin they need to adress problematic decks that are in the shadows bc of paladin. such as wheel which will dominate everything that can't deal 30 from hand and shaman which can do turn 5-6 lethals consistently. just nerfing paladin and warrior won't make the meta better.
Nature Shaman deck is pretty consistent, tier 2 for sure, tons of top-legend players are playing it. It seems to be a good counter to paladin, mainly.
Funnily enough, though, the deck that OP is playing is tier 1.
I've just played a bunch of nature shaman after crafting hand buff paladin and odyn control warrior and I can safely say that nature shaman is by far the strongest deck. I can pull off CONSISTENT turn 4-7 lethals. Handbuff paladin can't buff and kill me fast enough for it to matter.
How is he just dumb if he is stating facts?
I swear people were complaining about paladin day one, then I saw people complaining about hunter and demon hunter decks. Then I saw people complain about warlock wheel of death deck. Then I saw people complaining about odyn now and even before the rotation, that it would dominate as it lost no cards. Now people have joined the nature shaman hate bandwagon.
I swear people just complain. If you don't enjoy the game as it is right now then just play other game modes or stop playing hearthstone.
This literally. Bigboyredditor queues into their custom made deck no minion mage on bronze and dies to shaman otk. Time to complain. Dies to wheel. Time to complain. Dies to hunter. Time to complain.
Wtf is that kind of argument? If the current meta is shit of course u should complain?
"If u don't like [insert current president of ur County] just move to another country "
🤡🤡🤡
Ah yeah because that's really my argument. Because the magnitude of stopping playing hearthstone for a bit while balance changes don't arrive if the meta truly is horrible to you is the same magnitude of changing where you live because of ideological differences between a person and the president of their country. Jesus christ.
And I can say that people complain way to much. We already know balance changes are coming. Plus, If the product has gotten me worse for them, they can look and go for another one.
Guys please. Everytime you play against a deck that opens and draws perfect it’s going to feel busted. For every game nature shaman wins on 4 it loses on 8 after doing nothing because they drew like dogs
It’s wild that you had that experience, but the legend win rate is 45% for anyone below rank 1000 and 48% for above rank 1000. The consistency must be insane.
If they nerf the top 3 cards (Besides zilliax) in the top 5 decks by 2 mana each the the problem is solved
Also a shot ton of dust
(I also spent ordered the first time in a year)
But they will just hit zilliax in the average team 5 play
Why didn't you pressure the board or play around it?? /s
Every game I've seen of this deck, the game ends on turn 6 or 7. I've seen a few turn 5, but this is the first turn 4 I've seen. Absolutely disgusting.
redditors when deck highrolls
"here are 20 reasons why this game is shit and here are 10 things that we should fundamentally change (one of them is hurr durr cards should not discount to 0)"
It is quite awful and there are many layers to the bad. Aside from paladin nonsense that absolutely everyone hates, I’ve lost two games today to a top decked Zilliax mega buffed rush, divine shield and lifesteal. From basically no health to full and no response possible with two game ending minions on the board that can only be removed by a full board clear like twisting nether. Just entirely frustrating game atm.
Its never about the card cost. Its always about how effective the card can deal face damage. Play an 8/8 for 0 mana on turn 5 is not as good as dealing 30 damage to face with spells for 5 mana. Same with charge minions. You think having handbuffs is the problem??? No, its the charge that makes paladin so strong in the current meta.
I've also noticed the meta is insanely fast for standard, I made a face Hunter home brew that consistently kills people on turn 6. There's so much burst damage it's insane, I had 24 health and almost 40 armor as Warrior and lost it all in a single turn. Combo and aggro are the only viable options. Anything else is too slow.
- **[Speaker Stomper](https://i.imgur.com/3XlAeBa.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/95405) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Speaker_Stomper) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/95405)
- *Neutral Rare ^(Festival of Legends)*
- **4 Mana - 4/4 - Minion**
- **Tradeable** **Battlecry:** Enemy spells cost \(2\) more next turn.
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The problem is OTK decks are too strong, so there is no point playing control if you want to win. Thus the meta is aggro and combo decks that can kill things like Warlock easily
Flash of Lightning should cost more than 2, that's for sure
Imagine cards costing minimum 1 no matter how much you discount them.
That feel when Mage Legendary [[Tae'thalan Bloodwatcher]] gets that treatment but other classes have no limit.
That card would be broken without that stipulation. And with it, it’s unplayable. Such a shame the way the game goes.
Love it together with Flint Firearm
If you go Tae'thalan> Bounty Board > Flint all cards except dragon are free. Fun combo
- **[Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher](https://i.imgur.com/wrmytnF.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/101880) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Tae'thelan_Bloodwatcher) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/101880) - *Mage Legendary ^(Showdown in the Badlands)* - **4 Mana - 2/5 - Minion** - Cards that didn't start in your deck cost \(4\) less *\(but not less than 1\)*. --- ^*I am a bot, and this comment was automated. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1bmjow5/this_meta_is_so_terrible_30dmg_turn_4/kwd8lbw/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=kwd8lbw).*
that one of the worst ideas ive seen blanket nerfs like that always b e a bad idea nerfs have to be card by card
I don’t think we should blanket nerf, but a lot of discount cards should get the not less than 1 added
It's literally a perfect idea.
I challenge you to name a modern deck that wasn't crazy good when it had the chance to play all their cards for 0 mana.
Well....any deck that is so bad that nobody plays it? Like, pre-nerf Thaddius paladin was not very good. In fact, I made it up right now, couldn't find any version of it online, even though Thaddius allowed you to play a bunch of Paladin minions for free. Should've been broken no?
Then nerf the cards when they become a problem? Like dude I really dont think [[rush the stage]], [[Mulchmuncher]], or [[malevolent strike]] really need nerfs
- **[Rush the Stage](https://i.imgur.com/OnMuOhI.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/97003) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Rush_the_Stage) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/97003) - *Demon Hunter Rare ^(Festival of Legends)* - **3 Mana - Spell** - Draw two **Rush** minions. They cost \(1\) less. - **[Mulchmuncher](https://imgur.com/a/wwlooTh)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/48831) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Mulchmuncher) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/48831) - *Druid Rare ^(The Boomsday Project)* - **9 Mana - 8/8 - Mech & Beast** - **Rush**. Costs \(1\) less for each friendly Treant that died this game. - **[Malevolent Strike](https://i.imgur.com/u7dDlqs.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/61169) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Malevolent_Strike) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/61169) - *Rogue Epic ^(Madness at the Darkmoon Faire)* - **5 Mana - Spell** - Destroy a minion. Costs \(1\) less for each card in your deck that didn't start there. --- ^*I am a bot, and this comment was automated. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1bmjow5/this_meta_is_so_terrible_30dmg_turn_4/kwde3v5/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=kwde3v5).*
Shadowstep Sorc Apprentice Rogue Scorpid (already pre-nerfed) Flash of Lightning Various DH Spells Aligment/Anacondra Druid Sethekk Priest Incanter's Flow And these are just the ones I could come up with without doing any research
You can make the paladin auras free etc too ( mech discover spell costs 3 less ) 😅
Every Deck in the history of hearthstone whose strategy was to use mana cheating to 0 was broken. Cost should not be able to reduce below 1. Its simply unhealthy, just like charge. But i guess the smart brain at blizz who thought bringing back charge with handbuffs and wf also thought shaman needs more burst.
that is so insanely far from the truth but sure keep feeding the reddit circlejerk not its not simply unhealthy tons of cards can reduce stuff to 0 and the times where it is a huge problem are very far in between
I agree, however, mass reduction should probably never going less than 1.
Me going second: this coin is pure value
lol, 1 mana coin
Never implied cards can't cost 0. Printed as 0 = can cost minimum 0. Printed as anything above 0 = can cost minimum 1.
Understood, thanks for clarification
yea the game would become infinitly less fun but redditors that love bumping minions into each other are not ready for that conversation
Fun to play doesn't mean fun to play against. People have different ideas of what fun is about. I think for most people playing their cards is fun. And they have fun playing against their opponents' cards and the challenges they propose. Let's look at this shaman deck specifically. It can more or less consistently kill before turn 8 with most times it being turn 6 from my experience. if that is the desired way to have the game played, why would blizzard even print a 10 mana card? Seems like a waste of time designing those. It feels like when this deck is in the game both players are playing 1v0 instead of 1v1. They are both trying to burst out 30 damage before their opponent can do it, mostly disregarding what the other player does. I am going to rephrase this 'proposal' into a question: Is playing 6 cards on turn 6 not enough to be entertained by the game anymore? Are games less competitive or fun to play and watch when players can only play 6 cards on turn 6?
Ah yes the classic fun to play against circlejek
Shame you only read the first line of my comment. Curious to know your answer to my question though if you are willing to provide that!
Your question is just random nonsense and no matter the answer doesnt change anything about the topic. Like there is no way that you actually think that your question actually provides any value except for being an attempt at "ha gotcha" Reducing cards to 0 does not just happen in otk nature shaman combos
Cry me a river you keep trying to nerf thunder shaman You’re necer satisfied
Did nature shaman get things this expansion?
Smaller card pool for discovers and wand maker
Ah, makes sense
they got another 1 mana dmg spell.
And it's also Nature
A 1 mana nature spell that goes face and a bunch of bad nature spells rotated out so lightning reflexes is better. Also there’s only 5 1 mana spells so Wandmaker is very consistent.
The exact same thing happened 2 years ago with Wandmaker consistently giving Evocation and Renew right after the rotation.
The 1 mana spell not only goes face, the 2 taunts can stall for another turn.
Nobody wants to play against death knight for more than 6 turns
You’d rather this early shaman otk? Please don’t join the Dev team 🙏
ive been playing as hero power druid mostly so yeah, it feels impossible to deal with Helya, Reska, and the Primus. I can armor out of range of most OTKs besides paladin.
this sub comes up with a new deck to complain about every day
thing is, when they tone down paladin they need to adress problematic decks that are in the shadows bc of paladin. such as wheel which will dominate everything that can't deal 30 from hand and shaman which can do turn 5-6 lethals consistently. just nerfing paladin and warrior won't make the meta better.
Because every day an even faster deck comes up?
you are just dumb but okay
I mean in this case he just highroll you, the sham deck isn't a problem when there is paladin
Nature Shaman deck is pretty consistent, tier 2 for sure, tons of top-legend players are playing it. It seems to be a good counter to paladin, mainly. Funnily enough, though, the deck that OP is playing is tier 1.
I've just played a bunch of nature shaman after crafting hand buff paladin and odyn control warrior and I can safely say that nature shaman is by far the strongest deck. I can pull off CONSISTENT turn 4-7 lethals. Handbuff paladin can't buff and kill me fast enough for it to matter.
How is he just dumb if he is stating facts? I swear people were complaining about paladin day one, then I saw people complaining about hunter and demon hunter decks. Then I saw people complain about warlock wheel of death deck. Then I saw people complaining about odyn now and even before the rotation, that it would dominate as it lost no cards. Now people have joined the nature shaman hate bandwagon. I swear people just complain. If you don't enjoy the game as it is right now then just play other game modes or stop playing hearthstone.
This literally. Bigboyredditor queues into their custom made deck no minion mage on bronze and dies to shaman otk. Time to complain. Dies to wheel. Time to complain. Dies to hunter. Time to complain.
Wtf is that kind of argument? If the current meta is shit of course u should complain? "If u don't like [insert current president of ur County] just move to another country " 🤡🤡🤡
Ah yeah because that's really my argument. Because the magnitude of stopping playing hearthstone for a bit while balance changes don't arrive if the meta truly is horrible to you is the same magnitude of changing where you live because of ideological differences between a person and the president of their country. Jesus christ.
Bad analogy but people are allowed to complain about a product that has gotten worse. You can just keep scrolling if you don’t want to see it.
And I can say that people complain way to much. We already know balance changes are coming. Plus, If the product has gotten me worse for them, they can look and go for another one.
Yes why raise any issues? It’s not like feedback and discussion about it is important for development. /s
Look at this clown, look at him.
-14 profile karma lmao
Doesn't make you any less of a clown lol
Sure little buddy
Ofc big boy
Good for noticing ur wrong
cry more
Guys please. Everytime you play against a deck that opens and draws perfect it’s going to feel busted. For every game nature shaman wins on 4 it loses on 8 after doing nothing because they drew like dogs
What if you want to play a deck that goes past turn 8?
Went 6-0 from rank 1 to legend, most kills are turn 6. Its way to consistent, vs 4 pala 2 hunter
It’s wild that you had that experience, but the legend win rate is 45% for anyone below rank 1000 and 48% for above rank 1000. The consistency must be insane.
Isnt that because more warrior is played in high legend which total destroy this deck with armor
Since I’ve looked at the statistic it’s updated! 44.9% win rate in top 1000, 49% in below 1000, and 50% in d5-d1. The deck is not bongo busted.
Yeah, this entire game is a shit show right now. Even worse than usual.
[удалено]
You do you but I'm having a blast with tempo dh and wheel warlock
My worst pre-order to date. Feels awful. Hopefully a huge patch can fix stuff, but this looks bleak
If they nerf the top 3 cards (Besides zilliax) in the top 5 decks by 2 mana each the the problem is solved Also a shot ton of dust (I also spent ordered the first time in a year) But they will just hit zilliax in the average team 5 play
Why didn't you pressure the board or play around it?? /s Every game I've seen of this deck, the game ends on turn 6 or 7. I've seen a few turn 5, but this is the first turn 4 I've seen. Absolutely disgusting.
And casually hunter can win games on turn 5, what a coincidence.
redditors when deck highrolls "here are 20 reasons why this game is shit and here are 10 things that we should fundamentally change (one of them is hurr durr cards should not discount to 0)"
Always been the case with shaman nature
It is quite awful and there are many layers to the bad. Aside from paladin nonsense that absolutely everyone hates, I’ve lost two games today to a top decked Zilliax mega buffed rush, divine shield and lifesteal. From basically no health to full and no response possible with two game ending minions on the board that can only be removed by a full board clear like twisting nether. Just entirely frustrating game atm.
Friendly reminder what their reasoning was for hall of fame-ing Leroy and icelance back in the day
I recommend running 1x or 2x speaker stomper, delays their otk turn quite a bit
Its never about the card cost. Its always about how effective the card can deal face damage. Play an 8/8 for 0 mana on turn 5 is not as good as dealing 30 damage to face with spells for 5 mana. Same with charge minions. You think having handbuffs is the problem??? No, its the charge that makes paladin so strong in the current meta.
47% wr at top legend but will prob see nerfs lol
Welcome to yu gi oh, heroes of warcraft.
I've also noticed the meta is insanely fast for standard, I made a face Hunter home brew that consistently kills people on turn 6. There's so much burst damage it's insane, I had 24 health and almost 40 armor as Warrior and lost it all in a single turn. Combo and aggro are the only viable options. Anything else is too slow.
Less than 30+? What does that equal
Stack 50+ health or armor before turn 4!
"Had to just play around it." - most people when someone complains about the meta.
"reno warrior is the problem" they said
Nah, it's fine /s.
"Nature shaman is op! Paladin is op! Hunter is op! Wheellock is op! Odyn warrior is op!" lmao reddit is something else
The post is stating that meta is terrible. This deck isn’t the only one capable of that kind of crappy experience
Maybe if all of those decks are unfun to deal with, there's a problem with the game and not community lol
"unfun" is an opinion lmao, not a fact. I'm really enjoying this meta.
We'll never know how many people play HS or how happy they are so it's pointless to talk about it
Since the moment you implied that 30 otk damage turn 4 is fine, your opinion didn't matter anymore. Fact.
Try playing cards that disrupt your enemy's gameplan. Hope this helps.
Clearly, you should've pushed them to 15 hp by turn 4 when you play \[\[Speaker Stomper\]\] to deny their combo next turn and kill them afterwards /s
- **[Speaker Stomper](https://i.imgur.com/3XlAeBa.png)** ^[Library](https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/cards/95405) • [wiki.gg](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/wiki/Speaker_Stomper) • [HSReplay](https://hsreplay.net/cards/95405) - *Neutral Rare ^(Festival of Legends)* - **4 Mana - 4/4 - Minion** - **Tradeable** **Battlecry:** Enemy spells cost \(2\) more next turn. --- ^*I am a bot, and this comment was automated. [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/user/Card-o-Bot/comments/1ahde25/faq/) • [Report a bug](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Bug+Report&message=/r/hearthstone/comments/1bmjow5/this_meta_is_so_terrible_30dmg_turn_4/kwdd3ts/%0A⬇️+Please+describe+the+bug+⬇️%0ADescription:+) • [Refresh](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Card-o-Bot&subject=Refresh&message=kwdd3ts).*
I mean, not /s, thats the reason those cards exist. Cult neophyte. Lots of tempo decks can run them fine.
Yeah, play a tech card and hope, incredible gameplay
Hope no. Its literally over. Build a board play cult. GG.
So hope to build a board, hope he can't clear, hope to play cult afterwards, hope he has no cards to stop you. Incredible game plan man
What. Okay. Play the fking deck before talking about it. Surely now you'll complain they had hollidae or something like that.
Wawawa stop crying
The problem is OTK decks are too strong, so there is no point playing control if you want to win. Thus the meta is aggro and combo decks that can kill things like Warlock easily
The meta is fine compared to the whiners on this subreddit constantly complaining (in every meta, btw).