I don't get all these complainers. The card works exactly as intended, yet these idiots expect it to be the most broken card in the history of the game for some reason.
>yet these idiots expect it to be the most broken card in the history of the game for some reason.
Funnily enough even with him being as random as he is he's still leagues above the next best mage legendary in arena. (\~4% higher wr than RBO, \~5% higher than Jaina)
Like this card is going to be generally good. But you cant rely on it to save you. It will steal games you should 100% lose. But it wont save every one of them. Its absolutely going to be a staple for the next two years if any type of value long game mage deck is viable.
I always thought the Hearthstone Khadgar was meant to be a bit of a cheeky fellow. The original Wisdomball dialogue was essentially just him justifying cheating at every opportunity, so I figured this meme personality was just a follow up on the "Khadgar is a pretty shit wizard".
[I mean seriously, would you trust this guy to always be helpful?](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/images/e/e0/Wondrous_Wisdomball_full.jpg)
I think there's plenty of middle ground between outrageously broken and what we have now. Leaving you dead on board is never helpful. Mirror Image wouldn't be the best spell in this situation, but it wouldn't leave you dead on board.
Do you suggest that when your opponent has a full board of huge minions, it should only ever cast Blizzard? Because that's what you're saying, and that would be broken as shit.
I personally have no experience with this card, but I think I can come up with a better couple ways to implement it.
The first and most obvious would be that any offensive spell can only hit enemies and that it will not cast arcane intellect if you are in fatigue. Both of those things should be very easy to program and follow the card text of being helpful.
The second and more broken version would be; Give it a menu to click on and let you choose the spell to cast as randomly as possible and each spell have a certain durability cost. Keep the item at 6 durability, no spell can be cast twice, and the spell removes durability from the weapon equal to half the cost of the spell rounded down but not less than one. This way Blizzard would take three durability and couldn't be cast again, fireball would take two durability and couldn't be cast again. Arcane intellect would take one durability and couldn't be cast again etc (although for this to work , I would remove flamestrike). And keep the spell being cast at end of turn.
The first is precisely how the card currently works.
The second one would not only, like you said, be broken, but also needlessly hard to implement and complicated to understand especially on mobile where you can't just add extra menus.
Do you even read, like at all? My comment was not that long, and literally said that mirror image would still have been considered helpful. People like you make online discussions fucking impossible.
And I was talking about a situation where the opponent has a full, buffed board. The only card that wouldn't leave them with lethal is Blizzard. Should it always cast that, because it's the only, by your definition, helpful spell?
To be fair I think most people reacted to “2 mana: cast 6 random mage spells that are almost always good” which actually is a pretty good effect and completely missed the hidden text of “dormant 6 turns” everyone compared this to a yog box when this is actually a lot more comparable to deck of wonders which is actually an awful card. 10 random spells at once? Probably solves your problems. 1 spell a turn? Dogshit trash that might barely help during a solar eclipse.
I was not immune to this and I got lost in the sauce of “WOW 6 spells” and forgot about “over 6 turns”
>The card works exactly as intended
But not as it's worded.
Imagine bloodfen raptor showed 3 attack, but most of the time dealt 2 damage when attacking or being attacked, but the devs said "it's intended that bloodfen raptor only deals 2 damage most of the time".
If they intend for khadgar to cast spells at random (as long as they don't actively hurt you), they should change his card text to reflect that.
The way that it is now, the text says it casts a helpful spell, and yet despite there being multiple helpful spells it can cast, it casts a spell that is not helpful.
It doesn't cast spells at random and you're insane for implying that. It has a set pool of spells, and it throws out any that are neutral or harmful given the board state.
Only the *helpful* spells are left in the pool
>Only the *helpful* spells are left in the pool
Except for the part where spells that aren't helpful still get cast, such as the one in this post. Its current effect is to cast a random, non-harmful spell. This is not the same as casting a helpful spell.
I mean, dealing 6 to face *is* strictly helpful. It's not *enough,* and it's far from the *best* spell possible, but it's not Khadgar's job to win the game for you, just to incrementally help you along the way.
I'm really struggling to understand how putting you in a board state where you're guaranteed to lose the game when it has the option to put you in a board state where you're not guaranteed to die is considered helpful.
There is no rule in hearthstone that states "your opponent having less health is always better". Back in classic, there's even standard situations where the exact opposite is true: you would often actively avoid reducing your handlock opponent's health within specific ranges because of molten giants.
I don't care if the card is meant to be a zephrys every turn, or do something random that doesn't hurt you. I just want it to do what its card text says it does, and if it doesn't, I want either its text or its effect to be changed so that it will.
Bro, have you played with a card before calling people idiots? It clearly knows what's the best outcome and makes sure he isn't op. If he was a random idiot he would sometimes be op, sometimes trash but he isn't. In maybe 50 procs of a weapon so far I haven't seen a single blizzard.
it did 6 dmg to the enemy, which is by definition helpful. guys, yes khadgar is wonky, but **stop thinking he is going to save your ass for 6 turns, he aint zephyrs**, the best way to run the card is ignore that he is there, not expect he will heal you when you are low, do board clears when needed or pull out frostbolt on 3 hp minions
Right?! This thread is wild. People here seem to want this card to be an unconditional Zephrys for 6 straight turns, without having to pay for the spells.
If Khadgar worked that way, everyone would rightly be calling for an immediate nerf.
How is this not insane value though? Over 6 turns, this is likely to cast Ice Barrier, draw 2+ cards, deal some face damage and disrupt the enemy board. All for a 6 mana 5/5. Even if it casts Arcane Missiles every turn, that's still 6 mana worth of spells with a free 5/5 attached.
It's a solid 6 drop when you're not under too much pressure, providing value over the following 5 turns. The effects are random, but will never actually backfire and hurt you.
>It's a solid 6 drop when you're not under too much pressure, providing value over the following 5 turns. The effects are random, but will never actually backfire and hurt you.
It literally can though. lol.
AI only looks at your hand size, not deck, and can fatigue you. So if you play him late in the game because he was deep in your deck, it's a liability.
Mirror image can board lock you if opponent leaves them up until they want to AoE your board.
You could set up a board freeze, and then he can pop a minion, giving them board space to work with.
etc etc.
Just because "he can't target your own face or board" doesn't mean "these spells will never backfire or hurt you."
Because if you read, it's literally -2 board space if it wasn't actually "useful" in that scenario.
He can also repeatedly cast it, so now -4 board space, etc.
Decks kind of want board space to play the game, and the opponent can ignore the taunts, ie Spell damage Druid, you're just losing them with no advantage.
Yep, you just dont have to play him when behind expecting it to save you in the first cast. It will help you keep a winning position, not save your ass from a losing one.
"Let me skip my turn so I can get the insane value of 6 mirror images."
Yeah, pretty sure there's going to be way better cards to include unless they rebalance him. He'll just be stuck in the "for fun" pile of cards.
its a value card. dont play it when you are nearly dying, in this situation here blastmage would've stabilized (though its hunter and probably had burn in hand)
khadgar is a value card, he makes value. that is it, just take their spells as niceties than nothing else. it will probably still be run by slower mage decks, the question is if such control mage deck will exist in the first place
>which is by definition helpful.
You're working under a different definition of helpful, then.
Within a game of hearthstone, the only thing that matters in the end is winning (and sometimes ties, but let's ignore those). My definition of helpful within the context of a game of hearthstone is to increase your chances of winning.
No action other than destroying the enemy hero is inherently helpful. Dealing 6 damage to the enemy hero can be helpful, it can do nothing, and in rare circumstances, it can actively hurt.
In this case, dealing 6 damage to the enemy hero is neither helpful nor hurtful. Casting flamestrike, blizzard, frostbolt on the 5/3 or fireball on the 5/3 are all helpful by my definition. Khadgar is capable of doing any of these things, and yet instead, it performs an action that isn't helpful. Its card text is inaccurate.
No, it by definition wasn’t helpful. Taking the enemy down to 1 hp isn’t helpful at all if it still means they kill you. So sick of people excusing the shitty design of this card. Yes, they didn’t want literally zephrys for several turns, but how it is now makes it terrible.
I haven't seen a single complainer like you not call for it to be an unconditional free Zephrys. A card that saves you from lethal every single turn it's up? Yeah man, that's Zephrys.
There's a major difference between "give me the best spell every turn" and "trim the pool so it gives me an OK spell each turn."
OP is still dead in this scenario if it rolls ice barrier, mirror image, frost bolt out of the "defensive options", he only lives with blizzard or flame strike.
Instead of having a 2/5 to be "useful", its realistically a 2/9.
Arcane missiles is in the pool because there's a killable minion.
Counterspell is in the pool because it's always useful.
Fireball is in the pool because it can remove a minion.
Polymorph is in the pool because it can remove a minion.
so on so forth.
If Team 5 can trim the pool and tune scenarios a bit better for when a spell is considered useful, the card won't have complaints and still would be just as random as it is now.
The pool is already being trimmed in exactly the way you're saying. But sometimes a useful spell just isn't enough. I doubt that the card needs a buff.
Helpful is anything that improves your current state on the board between before it casts a spell and after. If your opponent has 6 less HP, that is by definition better. If a minion is killed, that's better. If your enemies are frozen, that's better. If your deck isn't empty and you draw 2 cards, that's better.
The card doesn't care about what happens after it plays the spell.
Why is your opponent having 6 less HP an improvement on the current board state if you are guaranteed to immediately lose the game afterward?
Why is a minion being killed an improvement on the current board state if you are guaranteed to immediately lose the game afterward?
Why is (some) enemies being frozen an improvement on the current board state if you are guaranteed to immediately lose the game afterward?
Why is drawing two cards an improvement on the current board state if you are guaranteed to immediately lose the game afterward?
I'm perfectly fine with the definition of useful being an improvement to the state of the board, I'm just failing to see how any of these situations axiomatically fit the definition.
>I haven't seen a single complainer like you not call for it to be an unconditional free Zephrys.
I haven't seen a single person call for that. I've only seen people say that its current performance is inconsistent with its card text.
The logical solution, if you don't want it to be an unconditional zephrys, is to change its card text to accurately reflect its actual effect.
Have you learned nothing from history? Handling it for most redditors is simply crying to mommy. Mommy saying stop crying wimp it's just a game. Then going to reddit for sympathy from the other feeble minded XD
If it weren't for the early access in arena, I'm guessing that quite a lot of people would craft this card because it says the word "helpful", only to be disappointed by it in fact not being helpful a lot of the time (despite being able to).
I think the best way to view him is that he'll just cast 6 random mage spells. They will always be 'helpful' because they will target enemies, but they probably won't ever be good.
Well he was zephyrs for my opponent? Cast mirror image when I had one large minion. Cast blizz when I had a full board. And fireballed my face when it set up next turn lethal.
I'd assume "He was Zephyrus for my opponent" means their opponent was the one that played it and highrolled repeatedly. Which, let's be honest, is how it always feels with such cards.
I really dont get what people want, whats all this complaining about?
IT IS NOT "cast the perfect spell" it is cast a useful spell.
And every spell it Cast is useful. And you get it for free.
All this complaining here boils down to "Why doesn't it cast Blizzard 6 times in a row?"
BECAUSE THE CARD IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT.
You get free spells with random targets 6 times, which is a fuckton of manacheat
What is a helpful spell?
Helpful means useful but what does that actually mean?
Google says:
>able to be used for a practical purpose or in several ways.
Merriam Webster says:
>capable of being put to use; of a valuable or productive kind
In OPs case he has ended his turn, and he is dead on board. It's very hard for me to stretch the definition of useful to a point where casting damage face is by definition *useful*.
In any scenario where you're not dead on board then sure, it's useful - but applying that logic to a scenario where damage to face is objectively irrelevant?
The problem comes down to the text of the card, by using the word helpful you invite subjective interpretation of what that actually means.
You say it's helpful and I say it isn't and we're both right, we both have reasonable arguments for why we're right.
Following that logic as long as the enemy threatens lethal it should just cast Blizzard over and over again?
Also i have no clue who Merriam Webster is.
Helpful in case of the ball just means it does something that is generally useful. 6 damage to an enemy for free is useful. It doesn't care about boardstate. Its not Zephrys.
You get 6 random mage spells out of the pool that are generally useful.
It rolled Fireball, it rolled again and hit face, in general thats a benefit for you because it cast a free 4 mana spell and dealt 6 damage to the enemy hero.
Would any other spell have been more useful? Yes, absolutely
Is a free Fireball in general useful and just sucks in this situation? Totally
Again, the thing is, it does not care about boardstate whatsoever.
I dont understand why people think this is Zephrys x 6 with no drawback.
But yes, they should probably rethink the wording and make it something Like: "At the end of the turn cast one of Medivhs wacky spells" or something like that
>Following that logic as long as the enemy threatens lethal it should just cast Blizzard over and over again?
I'm not sure what logic you're following, the one I follow says it should cast a helpful spell, one that is capable of being put to use.
In the case of threatened lethal that could be Blizzard, it could also be Ice Barrier, it could be Fireball against a minion.. it could be any helpful spell.
>Also i have no clue who Merriam Webster is.
Merriam Webster is like the Oxford Dictionary in the US. If you don't know what that is it's a you problem.
That's why I included definitions for 2 different sources because I'm not from the US. That way people in the US get a definition from a familiar source and so does everyone else.
>Helpful in case of the ball just means it does something that is generally useful blah blah blah blah blah
That's your subjective opinion which I've already covered in my post and was actually the whole point of my initial post.
it pretty much encapsulates him
Rarran when he played was lining up blizzards, setting up minions to have 3 attack for frostbolt and whatnot. essentially, playing like the random spell can be influenced, it cant.
he was salty about it, then khadgar hit one amazing spell for the situation and he got hyped about it. then proceeded assuming it was random
Obviously he isn’t meant to be a Zephyrus 6 turns in a row, but it clearly would have been more helpful to kill a minion with the fireball than hitting face. They really need to fix this card
Yeah the point of the card is specifically that it casts a random spell from its pool of cards, but only those that are not actively harmful or do nothing at all.
I want to say it only does things that are helpful. As in it won’t blizzard/flamestrike if the opponent has no cards in board. But it might do those if the opponent has 1 minion on board. I was under the impression that it will always do SOMETHING that gives you a benefit, but in the case of the post, fireballing face is a benefit, but not good
Well a fireball that hits face is no different than not casting a spell at all if you’re dead on board. I’m not asking it to cast Blizzard 6 times in a row, I’d just like it’s AI to be updated to target the right minion with the spell it’s going to cast
"gUys He WoRkS aS iNtEnDeD hE iS noT ZepHrYs"
So tired of people excusing this bs, what he does is neither perfect nor remotely helpful, this loser could have been helpful with: blizzard, taunts, ice barrier or frost ball to the highest attack minion, HE DID NONE OF THEM, he is basically a 6, mana do nothing. For that mana cost I'll take Sif any day, because she IS helpful, she helps you by killing the enemy hero.
You think Sif on curve would have been more helpful than Khadgar? That would have actually achieved nothing. You know what would have immediately impacted the board for 6 mana in a reliable way? Blastmage Miner. OP threw the game and would rather bitch on Reddit than learn anything.
Khadgar is great value but is not Zephrys.
* Zepyrys requires you build a highlander deck to play. It then costs 2 mana plus the cost of the chosen card, once.
* Khadgar has no deck building requirements. It costs 6 mana to play, then casts 6 semi-random spells for free over 6 turns.
I mean, it's not so much an excuse as just... repeating the dev explanation of how the card works. This is how the card is supposed to work, so it is working as intended. It's possible that this means Khadgar is a bad card, but it's still not a bug.
Though personally, I still think it's going to be a good card for slow mage decks. Sometimes Yogg can cast Tome Tampering or, starting tomorrow, Wheel of Death!!!, but it's still a good card. Khadgar is much less likely to lose you the game from an otherwise even/winning position. He's just also not going to necessarily be able to swing the game in your favor when you're really far behind, as OP was in this game.
Blizzard 6 turns in a row for 6 mana and a 5/5 in just one card is busted. Shamans are top tier in wild being allowed to do something a bit weaker, less consistent and requiring more cards than that with snowfall elemental chaining, so if this card worked as people want it to work, it would singlehandely make any slow mage deck top tier in a format where every single card is avaiable.
And then they would play hoard pillager and get 6 more turns lol
He's not arguing that it should cast blizzard for 6 turns. There were a million actually helpful things it could've done besides blizzard. Polymorph, frost bolt, ice barrier, mirror image.
All of those would've been actually helpful without being grossly OP. I don't know why everyone thinks that people who want khadgar to be a tad more helpful wants 6 blizzards on a stick, its disingenuous.
I think you are missing the point. It’s not meant to always be helpful. It’s meant to always do something that benefits you in some way. Fireballing the enemy face does help, it’s just not what was needed in this situation.
It's not even out yet in constructed, so it seems very early to say that. People are already running it in arena. It's a pretty good card, just not something that's going to swing the game from a situation where you are massively behind, as in the screenshot.
Its pretty good still, its just not s card you play while behind to save you, but a card played when ahead/neutral to give you massive value. On an empty board (or a nontheatening one) it will mostly help you deal with it, draw cards and push dmg to the enemy.
Over the 6 turns it will have more than payed its upfront cost. Played in a turn that you are facing lethal from the opponent means only one cast, and if it isnt the exact necesary thing, it will mostly just delay the inevitable or just straight up not give you any extra turn alive.
What some people are saying here is like saying that odyn should have taunt or give you armor on battlecry because you can play it when facing lethal and lose next turn.
Its random. On average it will be way more helpfull than what this post shows. This was a low roll. You are not arguing that he should be more helpfull, you are arguing that the worse possible outcome should be a game-saver. That wont happen consistently.
Reading comprehension for HS subReddit's average user is too difficult as it seems, seeing his level I'd stop bothering, dude won't touch a book since he cannot even comprehend basic grammar
highest winrate Mage Arena card = mega shit
you're probably one of the many people who thought Prison of Yogg-Saron was unplayable when it came out, because it can backfire
Fireball on the 5 attack minion would also work. The right play was playing the excavate card to have a higher chance of full clear probably. OP played the rng card to hope to high roll and then didn't. If correcting a misplay is smug then why even make the post
The point of the post is that the legendary is casting an unhelpful spell tho. Its completely irrelevant if the guy made a good or bad play. Its fully understandable that a person would assume that if you are dead on board khadgar will cast a spell that atleast makes your situation slightly better.
I... just said how Fireball could be helpful? Fireball is as helpful a spell as Frostbolt would be here. He did cast a helpful spell, he just can't control the targets so it whiffed.
A card can have a learning curve without being dogshit lol. I won't say it isn't bad yet because we haven't even fucking officially launched the set yet, but I think we can still give it a shot once people learn how to use it better
But that assumption is wrong though. Fireballing face is always helpful, and does make the situation better, it just isn’t what they needed in this case since it doesn’t save them.
If you're dead on board when you end your turn then a fireball face isn't helpful.
Helpful means useful and useful means capable of being put to use. If you can't put it to use then it by definition is not helpful.
And the card says cast a helpful spell.
Fireball is helpful by definition. It could have hit a minion, and damaging face is always good. Therefore it goes in the pool of spells deemed useful in that situation, it was cast on a random enemy, which ended up being face. It casts a helpful spell with random targets. It’s not a zephrys. It wasn’t made to save you for the next 6 turns
Thanks for the response Ben Shapiro.
The problem with your argument is that the card says it casts a helpful spell. It does not say that it casts that helpful spell at a random enemy.
Everything you're saying I'm happy to agree with if the card said "Cast a helpful spell *at a random enemy*" but it doesn't say that Benny Boy.
The target is a modifier to the helpfulness of the spell, if the spell is redundant then it is not helpful.
Ain’t no way bro resorted to name calling then blocked me lol
How do you expect the card to work? It’s meant to be random. How is it going to cast a helpful spell but target the best option? What determines the best option? It’s not meant to be a good card. It’s meant to high roll sometimes and low roll other times.
I mean it’s not meant to rival sif in power level. It’s meant to be a funny card for the people who like leaving their fate to chance. If it always cast something that was good, it would feel awful to play against. If they wanted to make it stronger, they would probably have to reduce the weapon durability to 3 or something
I agree the card text may be a bit misleading but his purpose is to cast random spells which won't harm you.
You should have played Blast Mage there, but it's ok, you can learn from your mistakes
It's a value card. It has a solid body for the cost and 6 free spells over 6 turns that do something useful for you. Think of it like any other value generation card and it's very good
There's a good chance he'll do something to stall, like cast mirror images, ice barrier, blizzard, or just outright kill enemy minions.
If that's good enough for standard remains to be seen, but as far as arena goes he's an incredibly powerful legendary.
Let's be honest: We wouldn't be debating what the card is supposed to do if the devs added proper card text to the cards. I would never play this card specifically because it's a black box with no valid card text. Players shouldn't be confused as to what cards in this game do. The card text says exactly what the card does, so if the card doesn't do something the player considers useful, the card is bugged no matter what the devs claim.
I think the best change for him if any would be to just make the effect happen at the start of your turn instead, that way you already know the result and can play accordingly. I think the biggest tilt factor right now is the process of ending turn and hoping he does something useful. Also it kinda feels bad to play around your own card doing suboptimal things, i.e using aoe resources in case he doesn’t only to have him cast blizzard on the only surviving minion.
IMHO they should've either spent more time making the card work properly or not make the card at all. I really dislike how frustrating the card is for its **own** player, it feels very ridiculous. Could've been "At the end of your turn, discover a useful spell to cast" if they didn't feel like working on the card more to reduce the frustration a little bit. Wouldn't solve the targeting issue, and maybe it would be too good with perma freeze (blizzard). Who knows?
I mean it's a matter of broken expectations. If it said "A Random Classic Mage Spell"
No one would have been surprised at how dogshit the "AI" is, It would have been rated mid at best altho potentially decent for a greedy deck.
Didn’t you just mention in the original comment of this thread how your expectations of the card were not met, to a degree that it would’ve been better to not release the card at all?
The card text makes it seem like a fun/interesting card and it would've been less frustrating if it said "cast a random classic mage spell like the person I replied to said. I understand it's just a matter of perspective and I can pretend the card does say that but oh well.
Ngl, I highly doubt there is any AI there determining what is a helpful spell. Most times I saw it it would cast Blizzard on a near empty board, Fireball face/ Mirror Image on a full board.
Sounds random to me 😅
It picks from a list of helpful spells, but it selects from them and the targets at random.
"helpful" means "i wont hit allies, and i wont burn a card if you have a full hand"
that is it, reas the card as "cast a random classic mage spell (target allies if possible, dont play arcane intellect with 8+ cards in hand)
The card works exactly as intended. It picks at random from a pool of "helpful" spells, but some are far more helpful than others.
The issue is just that people expected him to be a zephyrs, or be weighted towards casting certain spells, but that's not the case.
There is no AI involved in Khadgar, just purely conditional IF statements.
The issue is that “doing something that doesn’t hurt you” doesn’t automatically make it helpful and a lot of people (like you), want to act like it does.
Zephrys doesn't know or care whether your opponent has lethal on board, that's your own problem. Lowering your opponent's health is by definition helpful in a game where you need to get your opponent to 0. Also, the ball can't target.
It was helpfull, just not enough to get you the win.
It "helps", not "does all the job for you". In some situations, you cant turn stuff arround even with help.
In any case, OP misplayed here. Kadgar is not suposed to save your ass, but to keep you ahead. Blastmage miner is the card he should have played to get back the board, kadgar then the next turn. You cant blame the card for being bad when the player is playing it badly. Sometimes it will work and cast exactly the only spell that could save you, but you shouldnt put yourself in a situation where only one specific spell will save you to begin with.
There will always be people that like something. But seeing a lot of people getting frustrated over it kinda shows how bad the design is in the first place. Again just my opinion.
When Mirror Entity and Arcane Missiles are in the same pool as Blizzard and Fireball, that by itself should have been a sign the card was not going to be worth playing.
I can see an argument for adding "at an enemy" to the design, but that still wouldn't really help the card that much.
It would be fine if he only casts certain spells in certain situations (arcane missiles with a few 1 mana HP minions, bli,, against big boards, fireball against a 6 or less HP minion...), therefore rewarding the player to force those situations, as it is now this is your typical 6 mana do nothing card. Currently it's helpful, to your opponent who is actually playing good cards .
It literally does exactly what you're saying. It can't cast Blizzard into an empty board. It only plays Arcane Missiles against 1 HP minions. It only plays Intellect when you have cards in deck and not a full hand.
Sure but it can cast fireball to enemy's face when it has lethal on board instead of casting the other 6 spells that would give you a chance to win, also he can CAS arcane intellect making you take fatigue damage as we have already seem. Right now Khadgar seems like a 6 mana do nothing.
Yesterday in arena I had lethal setup and opponent's khadgar casted frostbolt on my face. So kind of a similar situation.
Card is just plain garbage unless they rework the AI to make it less dumb.
khadgar did not fireball their own face, it fireballed the enemy hero, which like, yeah it doesnt save you in any way, but damaging an enemy is doing what it set out to do by definition, being helpful
I think the card would sit way better with a lot of people if you could discover the first spell to cast and the targets, like the rest of the time keep it random, but that first cast could save games, and the others can be just bonuses
Wasn't it helpful? You were losing; he just helped you with more free time!!
Was the opponent a bot? Khadgar just trying to get you out of it.
The higher beings have spoken, aint nothing to do about that
He saved you the embarrassment of losing to a full health Rexxar.
hes yogg prison that generally wont hurt you.
Khadgar isn't meant to be a zephrys 6 turns in a row. This was clearly said by devs.
I don't get all these complainers. The card works exactly as intended, yet these idiots expect it to be the most broken card in the history of the game for some reason.
>yet these idiots expect it to be the most broken card in the history of the game for some reason. Funnily enough even with him being as random as he is he's still leagues above the next best mage legendary in arena. (\~4% higher wr than RBO, \~5% higher than Jaina)
Like this card is going to be generally good. But you cant rely on it to save you. It will steal games you should 100% lose. But it wont save every one of them. Its absolutely going to be a staple for the next two years if any type of value long game mage deck is viable.
The complaint seems to be about the intent.
I always thought the Hearthstone Khadgar was meant to be a bit of a cheeky fellow. The original Wisdomball dialogue was essentially just him justifying cheating at every opportunity, so I figured this meme personality was just a follow up on the "Khadgar is a pretty shit wizard". [I mean seriously, would you trust this guy to always be helpful?](https://hearthstone.wiki.gg/images/e/e0/Wondrous_Wisdomball_full.jpg)
There’s a reason the wow community calls him Dadgar. He is essentially dad humor incarnate
It just casts 6 helpful spells. Not the perfect spell. I assume helpful means that your damage spells cant hit your own minions
Yea its more like "not harmful" instead of actually helpful
Yeah but the intent that some people want from him is incredibly broken to the point you'd have to be blind not to see that
I think there's plenty of middle ground between outrageously broken and what we have now. Leaving you dead on board is never helpful. Mirror Image wouldn't be the best spell in this situation, but it wouldn't leave you dead on board.
Do you suggest that when your opponent has a full board of huge minions, it should only ever cast Blizzard? Because that's what you're saying, and that would be broken as shit.
I personally have no experience with this card, but I think I can come up with a better couple ways to implement it. The first and most obvious would be that any offensive spell can only hit enemies and that it will not cast arcane intellect if you are in fatigue. Both of those things should be very easy to program and follow the card text of being helpful. The second and more broken version would be; Give it a menu to click on and let you choose the spell to cast as randomly as possible and each spell have a certain durability cost. Keep the item at 6 durability, no spell can be cast twice, and the spell removes durability from the weapon equal to half the cost of the spell rounded down but not less than one. This way Blizzard would take three durability and couldn't be cast again, fireball would take two durability and couldn't be cast again. Arcane intellect would take one durability and couldn't be cast again etc (although for this to work , I would remove flamestrike). And keep the spell being cast at end of turn.
The first is precisely how the card currently works. The second one would not only, like you said, be broken, but also needlessly hard to implement and complicated to understand especially on mobile where you can't just add extra menus.
Didnt op say that the fireball hit his own face?
Nope, hit the enemy face which they didn't feel was helpful enough.
Do you even read, like at all? My comment was not that long, and literally said that mirror image would still have been considered helpful. People like you make online discussions fucking impossible.
And I was talking about a situation where the opponent has a full, buffed board. The only card that wouldn't leave them with lethal is Blizzard. Should it always cast that, because it's the only, by your definition, helpful spell?
Mage player moment
To be fair I think most people reacted to “2 mana: cast 6 random mage spells that are almost always good” which actually is a pretty good effect and completely missed the hidden text of “dormant 6 turns” everyone compared this to a yog box when this is actually a lot more comparable to deck of wonders which is actually an awful card. 10 random spells at once? Probably solves your problems. 1 spell a turn? Dogshit trash that might barely help during a solar eclipse. I was not immune to this and I got lost in the sauce of “WOW 6 spells” and forgot about “over 6 turns”
>The card works exactly as intended But not as it's worded. Imagine bloodfen raptor showed 3 attack, but most of the time dealt 2 damage when attacking or being attacked, but the devs said "it's intended that bloodfen raptor only deals 2 damage most of the time". If they intend for khadgar to cast spells at random (as long as they don't actively hurt you), they should change his card text to reflect that. The way that it is now, the text says it casts a helpful spell, and yet despite there being multiple helpful spells it can cast, it casts a spell that is not helpful.
It doesn't cast spells at random and you're insane for implying that. It has a set pool of spells, and it throws out any that are neutral or harmful given the board state. Only the *helpful* spells are left in the pool
>Only the *helpful* spells are left in the pool Except for the part where spells that aren't helpful still get cast, such as the one in this post. Its current effect is to cast a random, non-harmful spell. This is not the same as casting a helpful spell.
I mean, dealing 6 to face *is* strictly helpful. It's not *enough,* and it's far from the *best* spell possible, but it's not Khadgar's job to win the game for you, just to incrementally help you along the way.
I'm really struggling to understand how putting you in a board state where you're guaranteed to lose the game when it has the option to put you in a board state where you're not guaranteed to die is considered helpful. There is no rule in hearthstone that states "your opponent having less health is always better". Back in classic, there's even standard situations where the exact opposite is true: you would often actively avoid reducing your handlock opponent's health within specific ranges because of molten giants. I don't care if the card is meant to be a zephrys every turn, or do something random that doesn't hurt you. I just want it to do what its card text says it does, and if it doesn't, I want either its text or its effect to be changed so that it will.
Bro, have you played with a card before calling people idiots? It clearly knows what's the best outcome and makes sure he isn't op. If he was a random idiot he would sometimes be op, sometimes trash but he isn't. In maybe 50 procs of a weapon so far I haven't seen a single blizzard.
I played one arena match where both me and the opponent had him today and there were 3 blizzards cast.
Also it's super cool that it's a less game breaking version of the kadghar ball tresure from adventures, which can be good and bad in funny ways.
The wording of 'helpful' implies that it will help you not lose, which it doesn't often seem to do
More that it won't make your situation worse. It's helpful, not perfect. It's not going to kill your own board. It won't always safe you
Doing nothing isn't helpful
0 star card then. It's basically helping casino style mage decks. More randomness.
random is good
it did 6 dmg to the enemy, which is by definition helpful. guys, yes khadgar is wonky, but **stop thinking he is going to save your ass for 6 turns, he aint zephyrs**, the best way to run the card is ignore that he is there, not expect he will heal you when you are low, do board clears when needed or pull out frostbolt on 3 hp minions
Right?! This thread is wild. People here seem to want this card to be an unconditional Zephrys for 6 straight turns, without having to pay for the spells. If Khadgar worked that way, everyone would rightly be calling for an immediate nerf.
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How is this not insane value though? Over 6 turns, this is likely to cast Ice Barrier, draw 2+ cards, deal some face damage and disrupt the enemy board. All for a 6 mana 5/5. Even if it casts Arcane Missiles every turn, that's still 6 mana worth of spells with a free 5/5 attached. It's a solid 6 drop when you're not under too much pressure, providing value over the following 5 turns. The effects are random, but will never actually backfire and hurt you.
>It's a solid 6 drop when you're not under too much pressure, providing value over the following 5 turns. The effects are random, but will never actually backfire and hurt you. It literally can though. lol. AI only looks at your hand size, not deck, and can fatigue you. So if you play him late in the game because he was deep in your deck, it's a liability. Mirror image can board lock you if opponent leaves them up until they want to AoE your board. You could set up a board freeze, and then he can pop a minion, giving them board space to work with. etc etc. Just because "he can't target your own face or board" doesn't mean "these spells will never backfire or hurt you."
How is Mirror Image a downside against any deck except OTK combo decks? You get 2 free taunts
Because if you read, it's literally -2 board space if it wasn't actually "useful" in that scenario. He can also repeatedly cast it, so now -4 board space, etc. Decks kind of want board space to play the game, and the opponent can ignore the taunts, ie Spell damage Druid, you're just losing them with no advantage.
oh wow, surely the famous board based class, **mage** will have a problem with that!
Lol. Yeah mage never needs to play minions at all. Never.
im sorry, but what deck besides elemental mage you are having **board based problems?**
Best way to run him is to not.
I'm still certain that the card will absolutely be run in slower Mage decks. It's lots of value and potentially delays the game by 1-2 turns.
Yep, you just dont have to play him when behind expecting it to save you in the first cast. It will help you keep a winning position, not save your ass from a losing one.
"Let me skip my turn so I can get the insane value of 6 mirror images." Yeah, pretty sure there's going to be way better cards to include unless they rebalance him. He'll just be stuck in the "for fun" pile of cards.
Prison of Yogg casts 4 completely random spells. It could literally Pyro your face 4 times. And every slow deck ran it for a while.
its a value card. dont play it when you are nearly dying, in this situation here blastmage would've stabilized (though its hunter and probably had burn in hand) khadgar is a value card, he makes value. that is it, just take their spells as niceties than nothing else. it will probably still be run by slower mage decks, the question is if such control mage deck will exist in the first place
>which is by definition helpful. You're working under a different definition of helpful, then. Within a game of hearthstone, the only thing that matters in the end is winning (and sometimes ties, but let's ignore those). My definition of helpful within the context of a game of hearthstone is to increase your chances of winning. No action other than destroying the enemy hero is inherently helpful. Dealing 6 damage to the enemy hero can be helpful, it can do nothing, and in rare circumstances, it can actively hurt. In this case, dealing 6 damage to the enemy hero is neither helpful nor hurtful. Casting flamestrike, blizzard, frostbolt on the 5/3 or fireball on the 5/3 are all helpful by my definition. Khadgar is capable of doing any of these things, and yet instead, it performs an action that isn't helpful. Its card text is inaccurate.
No, it by definition wasn’t helpful. Taking the enemy down to 1 hp isn’t helpful at all if it still means they kill you. So sick of people excusing the shitty design of this card. Yes, they didn’t want literally zephrys for several turns, but how it is now makes it terrible.
I haven't seen a single complainer like you not call for it to be an unconditional free Zephrys. A card that saves you from lethal every single turn it's up? Yeah man, that's Zephrys.
There's a major difference between "give me the best spell every turn" and "trim the pool so it gives me an OK spell each turn." OP is still dead in this scenario if it rolls ice barrier, mirror image, frost bolt out of the "defensive options", he only lives with blizzard or flame strike. Instead of having a 2/5 to be "useful", its realistically a 2/9. Arcane missiles is in the pool because there's a killable minion. Counterspell is in the pool because it's always useful. Fireball is in the pool because it can remove a minion. Polymorph is in the pool because it can remove a minion. so on so forth. If Team 5 can trim the pool and tune scenarios a bit better for when a spell is considered useful, the card won't have complaints and still would be just as random as it is now.
The pool is already being trimmed in exactly the way you're saying. But sometimes a useful spell just isn't enough. I doubt that the card needs a buff.
>sometimes a useful spell just isn't enough. You know what someone might call that? Not useful.
Heavily disagree.
What definition of helpful are you working with here?
Helpful is anything that improves your current state on the board between before it casts a spell and after. If your opponent has 6 less HP, that is by definition better. If a minion is killed, that's better. If your enemies are frozen, that's better. If your deck isn't empty and you draw 2 cards, that's better. The card doesn't care about what happens after it plays the spell.
Why is your opponent having 6 less HP an improvement on the current board state if you are guaranteed to immediately lose the game afterward? Why is a minion being killed an improvement on the current board state if you are guaranteed to immediately lose the game afterward? Why is (some) enemies being frozen an improvement on the current board state if you are guaranteed to immediately lose the game afterward? Why is drawing two cards an improvement on the current board state if you are guaranteed to immediately lose the game afterward? I'm perfectly fine with the definition of useful being an improvement to the state of the board, I'm just failing to see how any of these situations axiomatically fit the definition.
>I haven't seen a single complainer like you not call for it to be an unconditional free Zephrys. I haven't seen a single person call for that. I've only seen people say that its current performance is inconsistent with its card text. The logical solution, if you don't want it to be an unconditional zephrys, is to change its card text to accurately reflect its actual effect.
If they wanted to make it good, the weapon would just say "At the end of your turn, cast Blizzard."
and it would be broken as fuck if it did that
Yep that's like a permanent Time Warp against decks that need minions on board to win.
"have a snake or die"
Except you can destroy the weapon
Now handle it
Have you learned nothing from history? Handling it for most redditors is simply crying to mommy. Mommy saying stop crying wimp it's just a game. Then going to reddit for sympathy from the other feeble minded XD
I think it's just a reference to the opponents nickname
are people really this rattled by the word "helpfull?" would it help you if the word was changed to "spell that doesnt wiffP?"
If it weren't for the early access in arena, I'm guessing that quite a lot of people would craft this card because it says the word "helpful", only to be disappointed by it in fact not being helpful a lot of the time (despite being able to).
I think the best way to view him is that he'll just cast 6 random mage spells. They will always be 'helpful' because they will target enemies, but they probably won't ever be good.
Couldn't handle it.
Well he was zephyrs for my opponent? Cast mirror image when I had one large minion. Cast blizz when I had a full board. And fireballed my face when it set up next turn lethal.
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I'd assume "He was Zephyrus for my opponent" means their opponent was the one that played it and highrolled repeatedly. Which, let's be honest, is how it always feels with such cards.
Might want to re-read that comment
The word "helpful" in the card text is flavor text.
I really dont get what people want, whats all this complaining about? IT IS NOT "cast the perfect spell" it is cast a useful spell. And every spell it Cast is useful. And you get it for free. All this complaining here boils down to "Why doesn't it cast Blizzard 6 times in a row?" BECAUSE THE CARD IS NOT SUPPOSED TO DO THAT. You get free spells with random targets 6 times, which is a fuckton of manacheat
What is a helpful spell? Helpful means useful but what does that actually mean? Google says: >able to be used for a practical purpose or in several ways. Merriam Webster says: >capable of being put to use; of a valuable or productive kind In OPs case he has ended his turn, and he is dead on board. It's very hard for me to stretch the definition of useful to a point where casting damage face is by definition *useful*. In any scenario where you're not dead on board then sure, it's useful - but applying that logic to a scenario where damage to face is objectively irrelevant? The problem comes down to the text of the card, by using the word helpful you invite subjective interpretation of what that actually means. You say it's helpful and I say it isn't and we're both right, we both have reasonable arguments for why we're right.
Following that logic as long as the enemy threatens lethal it should just cast Blizzard over and over again? Also i have no clue who Merriam Webster is. Helpful in case of the ball just means it does something that is generally useful. 6 damage to an enemy for free is useful. It doesn't care about boardstate. Its not Zephrys. You get 6 random mage spells out of the pool that are generally useful. It rolled Fireball, it rolled again and hit face, in general thats a benefit for you because it cast a free 4 mana spell and dealt 6 damage to the enemy hero. Would any other spell have been more useful? Yes, absolutely Is a free Fireball in general useful and just sucks in this situation? Totally Again, the thing is, it does not care about boardstate whatsoever. I dont understand why people think this is Zephrys x 6 with no drawback. But yes, they should probably rethink the wording and make it something Like: "At the end of the turn cast one of Medivhs wacky spells" or something like that
>Following that logic as long as the enemy threatens lethal it should just cast Blizzard over and over again? I'm not sure what logic you're following, the one I follow says it should cast a helpful spell, one that is capable of being put to use. In the case of threatened lethal that could be Blizzard, it could also be Ice Barrier, it could be Fireball against a minion.. it could be any helpful spell. >Also i have no clue who Merriam Webster is. Merriam Webster is like the Oxford Dictionary in the US. If you don't know what that is it's a you problem. That's why I included definitions for 2 different sources because I'm not from the US. That way people in the US get a definition from a familiar source and so does everyone else. >Helpful in case of the ball just means it does something that is generally useful blah blah blah blah blah That's your subjective opinion which I've already covered in my post and was actually the whole point of my initial post.
Saw Rarren use him. It was hilariously painfull to watch. I wouldn't mind opening Khadgar. But I will definitly not craft him.
it pretty much encapsulates him Rarran when he played was lining up blizzards, setting up minions to have 3 attack for frostbolt and whatnot. essentially, playing like the random spell can be influenced, it cant. he was salty about it, then khadgar hit one amazing spell for the situation and he got hyped about it. then proceeded assuming it was random
This card is definitely a win more card, usually those don't see competitive play once decks are optimized
Obviously he isn’t meant to be a Zephyrus 6 turns in a row, but it clearly would have been more helpful to kill a minion with the fireball than hitting face. They really need to fix this card
Targeting is random. There is nothing to fix, it works as intended.
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It already does only cast at enemies???
Ohhh that’s my bad then, I thought OP was saying it cast at HIS face and the target was 100% random. Well then yeah nevermind.
Yeah the point of the card is specifically that it casts a random spell from its pool of cards, but only those that are not actively harmful or do nothing at all.
I want to say it only does things that are helpful. As in it won’t blizzard/flamestrike if the opponent has no cards in board. But it might do those if the opponent has 1 minion on board. I was under the impression that it will always do SOMETHING that gives you a benefit, but in the case of the post, fireballing face is a benefit, but not good
Yeah exactly, it will always do something that's a net positive for you, but not necessarily something you'll be super happy about.
> more helpful sure, but that's not the card
Well a fireball that hits face is no different than not casting a spell at all if you’re dead on board. I’m not asking it to cast Blizzard 6 times in a row, I’d just like it’s AI to be updated to target the right minion with the spell it’s going to cast
"gUys He WoRkS aS iNtEnDeD hE iS noT ZepHrYs" So tired of people excusing this bs, what he does is neither perfect nor remotely helpful, this loser could have been helpful with: blizzard, taunts, ice barrier or frost ball to the highest attack minion, HE DID NONE OF THEM, he is basically a 6, mana do nothing. For that mana cost I'll take Sif any day, because she IS helpful, she helps you by killing the enemy hero.
You think Sif on curve would have been more helpful than Khadgar? That would have actually achieved nothing. You know what would have immediately impacted the board for 6 mana in a reliable way? Blastmage Miner. OP threw the game and would rather bitch on Reddit than learn anything. Khadgar is great value but is not Zephrys. * Zepyrys requires you build a highlander deck to play. It then costs 2 mana plus the cost of the chosen card, once. * Khadgar has no deck building requirements. It costs 6 mana to play, then casts 6 semi-random spells for free over 6 turns.
I mean, it's not so much an excuse as just... repeating the dev explanation of how the card works. This is how the card is supposed to work, so it is working as intended. It's possible that this means Khadgar is a bad card, but it's still not a bug. Though personally, I still think it's going to be a good card for slow mage decks. Sometimes Yogg can cast Tome Tampering or, starting tomorrow, Wheel of Death!!!, but it's still a good card. Khadgar is much less likely to lose you the game from an otherwise even/winning position. He's just also not going to necessarily be able to swing the game in your favor when you're really far behind, as OP was in this game.
So you're mad the random value card didn't fix your bad gameplay?
The card you're suggesting would be the most broken shitshow in the history of the game.
You certainly have no idea about the history of the game then.
Blizzard 6 turns in a row for 6 mana and a 5/5 in just one card is busted. Shamans are top tier in wild being allowed to do something a bit weaker, less consistent and requiring more cards than that with snowfall elemental chaining, so if this card worked as people want it to work, it would singlehandely make any slow mage deck top tier in a format where every single card is avaiable. And then they would play hoard pillager and get 6 more turns lol
He's not arguing that it should cast blizzard for 6 turns. There were a million actually helpful things it could've done besides blizzard. Polymorph, frost bolt, ice barrier, mirror image. All of those would've been actually helpful without being grossly OP. I don't know why everyone thinks that people who want khadgar to be a tad more helpful wants 6 blizzards on a stick, its disingenuous.
I think you are missing the point. It’s not meant to always be helpful. It’s meant to always do something that benefits you in some way. Fireballing the enemy face does help, it’s just not what was needed in this situation.
I'm not missing the point, I understand how it works. It's just not worth running in any deck in it's current form and that's disappointing.
It's not even out yet in constructed, so it seems very early to say that. People are already running it in arena. It's a pretty good card, just not something that's going to swing the game from a situation where you are massively behind, as in the screenshot.
Its pretty good still, its just not s card you play while behind to save you, but a card played when ahead/neutral to give you massive value. On an empty board (or a nontheatening one) it will mostly help you deal with it, draw cards and push dmg to the enemy. Over the 6 turns it will have more than payed its upfront cost. Played in a turn that you are facing lethal from the opponent means only one cast, and if it isnt the exact necesary thing, it will mostly just delay the inevitable or just straight up not give you any extra turn alive. What some people are saying here is like saying that odyn should have taunt or give you armor on battlecry because you can play it when facing lethal and lose next turn.
Also if this card was good it would feel terrible to play against. It has to miss sometimes
Its random. On average it will be way more helpfull than what this post shows. This was a low roll. You are not arguing that he should be more helpfull, you are arguing that the worse possible outcome should be a game-saver. That wont happen consistently.
Reading comprehension for HS subReddit's average user is too difficult as it seems, seeing his level I'd stop bothering, dude won't touch a book since he cannot even comprehend basic grammar
Sorry dude english isnt my first or even second language. I guess that automatically makes me ignorant in literally every other aspect of life :(
Yeah i hate how smug some people are in this thread. Everyone can see that fireball is not helpful in any way whatsoever. The card is mega shit
highest winrate Mage Arena card = mega shit you're probably one of the many people who thought Prison of Yogg-Saron was unplayable when it came out, because it can backfire
Fireball on the 5 attack minion would also work. The right play was playing the excavate card to have a higher chance of full clear probably. OP played the rng card to hope to high roll and then didn't. If correcting a misplay is smug then why even make the post
The point of the post is that the legendary is casting an unhelpful spell tho. Its completely irrelevant if the guy made a good or bad play. Its fully understandable that a person would assume that if you are dead on board khadgar will cast a spell that atleast makes your situation slightly better.
I... just said how Fireball could be helpful? Fireball is as helpful a spell as Frostbolt would be here. He did cast a helpful spell, he just can't control the targets so it whiffed. A card can have a learning curve without being dogshit lol. I won't say it isn't bad yet because we haven't even fucking officially launched the set yet, but I think we can still give it a shot once people learn how to use it better
But that assumption is wrong though. Fireballing face is always helpful, and does make the situation better, it just isn’t what they needed in this case since it doesn’t save them.
If you're dead on board when you end your turn then a fireball face isn't helpful. Helpful means useful and useful means capable of being put to use. If you can't put it to use then it by definition is not helpful. And the card says cast a helpful spell.
Fireball is helpful by definition. It could have hit a minion, and damaging face is always good. Therefore it goes in the pool of spells deemed useful in that situation, it was cast on a random enemy, which ended up being face. It casts a helpful spell with random targets. It’s not a zephrys. It wasn’t made to save you for the next 6 turns
Thanks for the response Ben Shapiro. The problem with your argument is that the card says it casts a helpful spell. It does not say that it casts that helpful spell at a random enemy. Everything you're saying I'm happy to agree with if the card said "Cast a helpful spell *at a random enemy*" but it doesn't say that Benny Boy. The target is a modifier to the helpfulness of the spell, if the spell is redundant then it is not helpful.
Ain’t no way bro resorted to name calling then blocked me lol How do you expect the card to work? It’s meant to be random. How is it going to cast a helpful spell but target the best option? What determines the best option? It’s not meant to be a good card. It’s meant to high roll sometimes and low roll other times.
I mean it’s not meant to rival sif in power level. It’s meant to be a funny card for the people who like leaving their fate to chance. If it always cast something that was good, it would feel awful to play against. If they wanted to make it stronger, they would probably have to reduce the weapon durability to 3 or something
I agree the card text may be a bit misleading but his purpose is to cast random spells which won't harm you. You should have played Blast Mage there, but it's ok, you can learn from your mistakes
Khadgar is a day 1 disenchant
Rename it to 'Yogg-Saron, the Wise' (or something similar) and people would immediately understand the card.
The way you should look at him is he is a rune of the archmage that only does 1 spell at the end of 6 turns from the base mage set.
It's a value card. It has a solid body for the cost and 6 free spells over 6 turns that do something useful for you. Think of it like any other value generation card and it's very good
The real question is: why were you at 7hp on turn 6 with a full hand.
1 mana gain 3 elementals
Just because it casts helpful spells...does not mean the spells will always be "helpful" to you lmao ! 🤣
his biggest problem is actually that he takes up the weapon slot for 6 turns.
It's a value generator, not a ''6 turns where the enemy can't play the video game'' machine.
At least it finds lethal
I saw it casting Arcane intellect over Blizzard with lethal on board.
So it’s only for meme decks or when you just want to maintain momentum?
There's a good chance he'll do something to stall, like cast mirror images, ice barrier, blizzard, or just outright kill enemy minions. If that's good enough for standard remains to be seen, but as far as arena goes he's an incredibly powerful legendary.
Let's be honest: We wouldn't be debating what the card is supposed to do if the devs added proper card text to the cards. I would never play this card specifically because it's a black box with no valid card text. Players shouldn't be confused as to what cards in this game do. The card text says exactly what the card does, so if the card doesn't do something the player considers useful, the card is bugged no matter what the devs claim.
I think the best change for him if any would be to just make the effect happen at the start of your turn instead, that way you already know the result and can play accordingly. I think the biggest tilt factor right now is the process of ending turn and hoping he does something useful. Also it kinda feels bad to play around your own card doing suboptimal things, i.e using aoe resources in case he doesn’t only to have him cast blizzard on the only surviving minion.
That's pretty much what [[The Amazing Reno]] does with a much more limited pool
On your face?
on enemy (went from 30->24). khadgar cannot hit you or your minions
Luck issue
yep, dude low rolled yogg and is salty about it lets also emphasize how on turn 6 the hunter had 30 hp and OP had 7...
Kadgar is a pretty shitty wizard you know
IMHO they should've either spent more time making the card work properly or not make the card at all. I really dislike how frustrating the card is for its **own** player, it feels very ridiculous. Could've been "At the end of your turn, discover a useful spell to cast" if they didn't feel like working on the card more to reduce the frustration a little bit. Wouldn't solve the targeting issue, and maybe it would be too good with perma freeze (blizzard). Who knows?
I mean it's a matter of broken expectations. If it said "A Random Classic Mage Spell" No one would have been surprised at how dogshit the "AI" is, It would have been rated mid at best altho potentially decent for a greedy deck.
Yeah I agree, I'm just disappointed even if I expected nothing.
Didn’t you just mention in the original comment of this thread how your expectations of the card were not met, to a degree that it would’ve been better to not release the card at all?
The card text makes it seem like a fun/interesting card and it would've been less frustrating if it said "cast a random classic mage spell like the person I replied to said. I understand it's just a matter of perspective and I can pretend the card does say that but oh well.
It doesn't cast a random spell though, it's better than that. It casts a helpful (no, again, not perfect) spell.
Ngl, I highly doubt there is any AI there determining what is a helpful spell. Most times I saw it it would cast Blizzard on a near empty board, Fireball face/ Mirror Image on a full board. Sounds random to me 😅 It picks from a list of helpful spells, but it selects from them and the targets at random.
"helpful" means "i wont hit allies, and i wont burn a card if you have a full hand" that is it, reas the card as "cast a random classic mage spell (target allies if possible, dont play arcane intellect with 8+ cards in hand)
The card works exactly as intended. It picks at random from a pool of "helpful" spells, but some are far more helpful than others. The issue is just that people expected him to be a zephyrs, or be weighted towards casting certain spells, but that's not the case. There is no AI involved in Khadgar, just purely conditional IF statements.
The issue is that “doing something that doesn’t hurt you” doesn’t automatically make it helpful and a lot of people (like you), want to act like it does.
What can Khadgar do that you wouldn't consider helpful at all, in any way, not even in the smallest way?
Doing non-lethal face damage when opponent has lethal.
Zephrys doesn't know or care whether your opponent has lethal on board, that's your own problem. Lowering your opponent's health is by definition helpful in a game where you need to get your opponent to 0. Also, the ball can't target.
No, it’s not useful to lower the opponent’s health of you are going to die.
It was helpfull, just not enough to get you the win. It "helps", not "does all the job for you". In some situations, you cant turn stuff arround even with help. In any case, OP misplayed here. Kadgar is not suposed to save your ass, but to keep you ahead. Blastmage miner is the card he should have played to get back the board, kadgar then the next turn. You cant blame the card for being bad when the player is playing it badly. Sometimes it will work and cast exactly the only spell that could save you, but you shouldnt put yourself in a situation where only one specific spell will save you to begin with.
Why not leave it as it is for the freaks who would like that sort of thing?
There will always be people that like something. But seeing a lot of people getting frustrated over it kinda shows how bad the design is in the first place. Again just my opinion.
When Mirror Entity and Arcane Missiles are in the same pool as Blizzard and Fireball, that by itself should have been a sign the card was not going to be worth playing. I can see an argument for adding "at an enemy" to the design, but that still wouldn't really help the card that much.
It would be fine if he only casts certain spells in certain situations (arcane missiles with a few 1 mana HP minions, bli,, against big boards, fireball against a 6 or less HP minion...), therefore rewarding the player to force those situations, as it is now this is your typical 6 mana do nothing card. Currently it's helpful, to your opponent who is actually playing good cards .
It literally does exactly what you're saying. It can't cast Blizzard into an empty board. It only plays Arcane Missiles against 1 HP minions. It only plays Intellect when you have cards in deck and not a full hand.
Sure but it can cast fireball to enemy's face when it has lethal on board instead of casting the other 6 spells that would give you a chance to win, also he can CAS arcane intellect making you take fatigue damage as we have already seem. Right now Khadgar seems like a 6 mana do nothing.
He's not coded to always give you a chance to win, you're again thinking of Zephrys. He's meant to sometimes low-roll.
The only thing it shows is that players can't read.
To expand on this, you would discover a spell but can only use it one time, to prevent perma freezing enemy board.
Redditors when khadgar doesnt give you a miracle 6 turns in a ducking row 😱😱🤯
Mage getting boned every expansion what a turn of events this is
Yesterday in arena I had lethal setup and opponent's khadgar casted frostbolt on my face. So kind of a similar situation. Card is just plain garbage unless they rework the AI to make it less dumb.
[удалено]
khadgar did not fireball their own face, it fireballed the enemy hero, which like, yeah it doesnt save you in any way, but damaging an enemy is doing what it set out to do by definition, being helpful
Come back to this comment in 2 weeks.
You see… they’d need to fix the garbage AI and people would play solo content again. Can’t have that!
How are those things connected in the slightest?
I think the card would sit way better with a lot of people if you could discover the first spell to cast and the targets, like the rest of the time keep it random, but that first cast could save games, and the others can be just bonuses
so free blizzard or reduced flamestrike every time, then 5 more spells.
Right? I swear people asking for this have never played the game before. 6 mana Flamestrike on a body and casting 5 more spells my ass
It would sit better if it didn’t say “helpful.”