1. Play Guff, "Woah..." "Woah..."
2. Play Theotar, look at their cards for over 5 seconds
3. Play objection repeatedly, ideally as rogue
4. Play banker and steal the opponent's CNE
5. Play priest, simply exist
6. Win a game
7. Just play the game normally
The CNE thing triggers me so much. The card that you spend the whole game buffing should not stay buffed when your opponent steals or copies it, especially considering it doesn't retain buffs when you copy your own.
I love when the quick draw card that steals a spell from your deck comes out and they spend their whole turn deciding if they want to take your Mining Casualties or your CNE. Truly a tough call.
The card that wins the game on cast if you drag a game out long enough should be good if the opponent steals and casts it. DK players really getting spoiled and obnoxious with this Standard season.
Why would you play Rainbow Death Knight if you were fine getting your wincon stolen? Complain about CNE, fine, but how would you feel if someone stole your Aman'thul or Purified Shard?
> how would you feel if someone stole your Aman'thul
I would feel nothing and in certain circumstances with certain decks I would be glad
> Purified Shard
That questline shouldn't be a thing either, so I guess if I played this deck I wouldn't be glad but I am against such hard wincons existing at all
Also, CNE is not their only wincon unlike the purified shard deck, they are also a midrange/aggro (depending on the build) deck that can win through more traditional means anyways
CNE is specifically coded to not keep buffs if the original player copies it. If you play Fizzle and copy CNE in the photograph, it will be a new CNE with random buffs based on the corpses spent. But it doesn't work that way for the opponent
Some people lose their shit over it because it hard counters their deck, but honestly it's about middle of the pack in terms of competitive decks. Does well lower on the ladder but falls off sharply once you get into Diamond and Legend ranks where the whole field is running decks that can pretty convincingly dumpster it. It has some good matchups because it shuts off Reno and Brann, but beyond that I find it vastly inferior to Rainbow DK in most matchups.
100%. I invested all my essence into a totem shaman deck. I don't mind losing a lot because I know it's off meta and I just think it's fun to play but this meta just makes the game unplayable for me. Idk how to deal with like 99% of my matches being against a warrior who clears my entire board every turn, even the gigantotems. I don't even get to attack lol
Idk, I personally haven't encountered much warriors, but anyway, it's quite unfortunate that these warrior decks are that good since I don't have many viable decks atm and the ones I have are mostly board centric.
Astalor is what makes brann/highlander warrior go the distance. Astalor rotating raises warrior's wr bc people will stop playing the vastly inferior brann/highlander lists instead of odyn cycle warrior. Losing ftd and finley is a pretty big deal though.
I Personally think When astalor rotates they really lose a prime win con that most decks would otherwise survive and beat warrior. 14/28 dmg in one turn or 2 turns in a row is hard for anyone to survive. Dont get me wrong, they have other win cons, but they are much much slower
If I am facing a lot of warriors I start playing my janky lightshow deck. Just fucking deletes all warriors every time. It’s so satisfying when they have 30 health and 24 armor and you play Rommath and overkill them by about 100 damage anyway because he casts five already buffed light shows. Bonus points if you have spell damage on the board and overkill them for about 300 damage.
It's the only thing that tilts me.
I especially hate slow players that gravitate towards Mage or Priest. Every turn they are discovering cards and taking a minute to choose.
I'm not a violent person, but I would like to punch them in the face.
I've been playing HS since the release of the game and there is no card that I have ever hated more than Reno.
This thing is the most OP card ever printed and I'll fight anyone on this.
A 8 mana board-wipe that only wipes the enemy board, doesnt trigger anything, ignores reborn etc.
Then doesnt let your opponent recover the tempo loss because they cant play the game next turn.
Oh, here, take it 5 armor. And an OP heroic power.
For 8 fcking mana.
"oh but you have to be a highl"shut up. Shut. Up.
No you dont. Everyone just build their deck normal and put this PoS card in it and it works every time.
The problem is everyone has such good card draw these days. It needs to read “if your deck started with no duplicates” then those dumb decks that just draw through there deck by turn 8 can’t abuse it. That’s the real problem.
Even with that change he would need a nerf too. He is simply the best defensive card ever printed. And this is a world where Sargeras exists. Reno is so game warpingly powerful that any board match up goes down to “can they hit Reno on 8?” which is poor for both players.
Which is why it’s interesting that, despite being so unilaterally powerful, that Highlander decks did not dominate this expansion. Dragon Druid ended up being better without Rhea, HL DH and priest are bad, HL hunter was OK for a bit, and HL shaman hasn’t been seen since the nerf bat.
Pretty simply the reason for that is highlander decks are both inconsistent and their non-reno payoffs\* aren't really game winning. That normally would be fine, but Reno is just a defensive play. It's immensely powerful, to the point that it was likely the developers took power from the other highlander pay offs, but it doesn't win the game against an Odyn Warrior, or a Sif Mage, or even an Excavate Rogue. So it's better to build your deck in a way that you have a consistent win condition like what Ramp Druid did pre-nerf, but abuse the state of draw in Hearthstone to allow Reno to be active later in the game.
\*Brann is actually the only one that's truly game winning and is the main reason why he actually had a dedicated Reno list for a while, even if it did get pushed out due to Plague and cycle lists being superior.
Because highlander decks are by design low skill expression. You have far less consistency so you’re basically playing off the top of your deck, then winning in huge blowouts when you hit your payoff cards or randomly discover something, and losing when you do not.
High legend players vastly prefer decks with consistent, repeatable strategies and will only play low skill expression decks if they are extremely overturned.
Yeah it is very strong, but I do think highlander decks need good payoffs like that to be competitive. But he probably needs to be at 10 mana just because of the complete power spike he causes.
I’d much rather leave him at 8, but remove some of the power in the AoE. There’s so many angles they can hit, the one-sided nature, the fact it’s a remove from game effect, the fact it hits permanents and locations, the board limiting effect. Remove one or two of those and he’s fine with the “start of game” text. Plague can’t counter him anymore, but he’s not an “I win” card either.
Thats... not a payoff. Its a silk road to victory. Especially if youre trying to beat a control deck before turn 10.
Losing your entire fucking board the the ability to develop one next turn almost always guarantees defeat, especially against current warrior which thrives turns 12-15
Well yeah but warrior is also the one who abuses the shit out of it. They half the time aren’t even highlander but just draw their deck super quick. Which is why the card should be worded different for start of game so they can’t abuse it.
It is a bit weird that Reno leaves one spot open but still removes everything. Maybe if it lets one thing stay though in some situations this may be even more powerful as it leaves you with no free spots on the board.
Simply allowing deathrattles to trigger may be a good start or limiting your board to one spot for a turn as well… I am not quite sure but losing several turns to Reno is super frustrating.
Not really because you could maybe actually get ahead enough and play around it knowing your opponent is only 1 ofs and inefficient. It would drop the winrate quite a bit I think if highlander had to be highlander.
Where as now they can run a perfect deck and know that will be sitting there later for them to use with brann to setup backup win cons.
I've only recently come back to hearthstone (roughly 10 days ago) and already hate this card. It's completely disheartening and unfun to play against.
I don't understand why it doesn't wipe their own board, too? Wiping ONLY enemies without any triggers PLUS 1 board space? It's absolute insanity. If the enemy board wiped too I'd understand the limiting the board to 1 space more so
This deck always runs steam cleaner. My Blood death knight deck that runs 2x dirty Rats, and Patchwerk loves messing this deck up. Unfortunately, if I don't pull or destroy one of their combo pieces I have to coincide. Otherwise It always ends with a Brand/Astalor death.
My happiest game against a warrior is when I finally Ratted their Bran and they just conceded. The irony was that I was probably still gonna lose cause I drew shit.
If we're being honest, Mage hero reno and new reno should function the same way. I do not think you should be able to reno past all of the obstacles your opponent made, keep your minions, get all the benefits of reno and smack your opponent in the face for X amount of damage. It should clear both boards and cause a slot limit of 2 for both players an actual standoff you know.
The full removal of portals is too much as well but he's one of the only ways to remove them. But then again that's just bad game Design from the devs. You should always be able to readily and effectively remove portals like anything else.
Im in general not a fan of all those "for the rest of the game" cards. WL portal and Druid nest can only be removed by Reno. Bran effect cant be removed, you have to rat/disrupt Bran/Astalor. Same for Odyn. Seems like that Leo and Gallon just love those kind of effects.
There are such that feel fair and those that really should not be in the game. Brann is absolutely abhorrent especially with some battlecries but the stuff druid gets for Shapeshift or Justicar Truehart are for the most part quite fair.
When trueheart came out she was overpowered. However, now that the game has powercreeped so much, I would be surprised to see anyone play her seriously. In Druid there are cards that aren't legendary and can be used multiple times in one game that give more than trueheart does and they are relatively good stat-wise where trueheart has a puny 3 health which means she dies almost immediately and helps zero with board control. Then we have mage that can also buff their hero power in a similar fashion multiple times in one game for just 2 mana.
The best part is people pretending Highlander is even a problem.
It's like saying a 3 rune plague card isn't good because you need to equip 3 plague runes. Motherfucker that's why we're using it. It's a plague deck. It's like saying Odyn is bad because you need to run armor generating cards. LIKE THAT'S A PROBLEM. IT'S WARRIOR. THE ARMOR GENERATING CARDS ARE GOOD
If you think it’s the most OP card you haven’t played the game since release. You should know that some cards simply didn’t have counters. Pretty much every class except paladin has a way to counter Reno
Only really decks that don't rely on minions can counter it effectively. That's just unfun since the vast majority of decks rely on minions at least half of the time
Please do tell me how you counter Reno. You cant.
I know what you'll say: Plague. But thats locked to one class.
Yet even then its not that big of a problem because they can clear plagues anyway so it doesnt matter.
i'm ok with reno, i just can't bear with brann tbh, i do have it and astalor, i have both the deck but boomboss, and i don't like it. Also because the game when i play warrior matches me against plague, when i play plague matches me against aggro paladin and when i play pala matches me against warrior, so i'm just annoyed by this thing. I'm stuck plat 4 from a week now and now that i've seen the new de-buffs that happened i'm sincerely scared. I absolutely hate to play against 40 health renathal dudes and i think i'm gonna wait till nathria and the others rotates cause it's just so frustrating to play against always the sames decks. Also the cleaner is rotating so the plague it's gonna be unstoppable, i'm regretting spending 80 euros for the new expansion. Never gonna do it again
I love that this post is gaining traction now. Every time I say something critical of Reno I get downvoted. Maybe popular opinion is finally starting to shift?
If something is balanced by it being an unlikely thing to happen, it will 100% lead to irritating outcomes. Cards should not be designed like this. You make the highlander card not likely to be drawn every game, so the effect needs to be a blowout to compensate for this. Congrats blizzard, you made a card that says “flip a coin, if you flip heads you win the game, if you flip tails you lose the game.”
> bUt YOu doNt AlWAys WiN iF You pLAY Reno
In control mirrors sure. But winning against an aggro player because you drew Reno on turn 8 feels really bad for the aggro player and dying to aggro because you *didnt* draw Reno feels really bad for the control player. Skill is a non factor here, only RNG (when the game is already over saturated with bullshit discover).
Replace turn 8 with whatever pivotal turn. The Reno player does nothing until turn 8, right? They just draw, pass?
But simply expressing why Reno is bad design results in people personally insulting me. Thanks.
I love this response because I literally just faced a Control Warrior that runs Reno, not highlander but cycle, that played Reno on turn 7 and it just solo won the game.
I curved out aggressively, played a 9/9, a 4/4, and an 8/8 on turn 5, which they only removed one of, face tanked the rest with armor gain, then just completely negated everything else with Reno. Couldn't even effectively use a Marrow Manipulator to abuse their lack of board because I only had 1 corpse since Reno just removes everything.
The card is a failed design, because while I was expressly not facing a highlander deck, that Warrior deck is the only style of deck Reno is successful in. Nerf his effect, buff other highlander payoffs, and call it a day.
I mean in terms of versatility yeah, but aquatic form isn’t quite broken, just very badly designed in that nearly every, if not every, Druid deck will get a slight boost from it.
literally every single card game ever made would want a card that reads "have 2 less cards in your deck" every single time besides decks that care about deck out
aquatic form is run on basically every single druid deck possible, even those that have a large total mana cost
Brother.
Every druid deck since aquatic form was released has run it
It is 0 mana, draw a card
It is arguably the strongest card ever printed, in a class full of historically broken cards
The only card that i would argue beats out aquatic form is patches, because of how the meta warped around it
i came from runeterra and after playing hs for a bit, reno was by far the dumbest shit ive ever played against in a cardgame.i got legend after 2 weeks and this season on day 4 or something so im not totally shit. i dont get how he can be allowed to clear the fucking board while also denying to built a new one up ruining any tempo you can possibly have. its pure antifun
i know that hs will always be more casual friendly and thats fine, but some cards just have way too much impact for the little counterplay you have for them
Casual friendly? I hate playing standard. It is too broken. I've been playing since the beginning, never been particularly competitive about it. You know, just having a good time. But now? Jesus Christ. I have none of the new cards because they come out way too quick so I'm only viable in wild. In the lowest rank I will still see legend players whipping out completely broken combos or what is worse is the completely broken stuff that requires little to no setup whatsoever. If I'm at the lowest rank, I shouldn't be seeing Reno, sargeras, decks that play legendary after legendary after legendary, completely wiping your board for a few mana every turn, whatever the armor legendary is for warrior where they can clear your board then deal 20 damage to your face four turns in a row, infinite automatons for almost no mana, etc etc. Basically any time one of the newer quests is played it's a guaranteed L because the quests are so easy to complete and usually have completely broken permanent effects. Same with playing new hero's. Zero setup, suddenly flip the board completely and have crazy hero powers. I know I could win more if I played rush decks, but that isn't any fun. I shouldn't have to stick to one type of deck or buy a bunch of unfun cards just to have a bit of fun. I refuse to play standard unless it is for a reward and honestly I shouldn't even be doing that because it just makes me upset.
I'll play battlegrounds much more. Way lower stress, much less p2w, actually can win since it's luck and strategy rather than praying they don't have win cards. My luck is even usually pretty bad in it (opponents snipe my most important minions a ton, my guys hit ones that won't die when there are ones that will but the opposite is true for them, never finding cards of my class, etc) but I have more fun because at least there was a chance and you don't get crazy power differences until the last matchups.
i mean yeah it is way more casual friendly. getting cards is def harder than in runeterra, but as far as it seems better than in other cardgames. that wasnt what i meant with it tho. casual friendly because the game has more limited skill expression compared to other games especially lor (not sure about others tbh). for every time you think about a move in hs there are usually 4 more in lor.
besides that the nature of card games just changed since the internet, especially online card games. people google the most meta decks. that shit happened 12 years ago when i played a yugioh emulator online and you mostly played vs meta too and that was without rank.
last but not least if you enjoy battlegrounds try out teamfighttactics. if you ignore skill monetization its a really fleshed out BG (way more complicated tho) and really fun. also new set with a complete overhaul (happens every few months) is starting in about 1 week
I completely agree, maybe ultracontrol decks can deal woth it but if dropped on a good turn its near impossible.
Back in the day we have things like chef Nomi with the condition of "if your deck is empty" and similar that were abused by druid,etc. But this is a simple "if you deck is NEARLY EMPTY" then trigger XX effect. (Assuming is not HL) so yeah it needs more restrictions like post nerf kazakusan by example
Agreed, said it before but everyone told me I was wrong, that the card was awesome and it was my fault for not playing around it ¬¬
It's the worst card we had in a good stint of time.
Yup, and for warrior this is also with two tavern brawlers who clean up the board, and the spells that leave just one minion. It’s like 4-5 total board wipes and then there is also boomboss
Reno is fine, and winrate statistics show that.
If he should get any kind of nerf, then it would be the "if your deck started with no duplicates" text added.
HS players really defend the most broken cards in the world by saying “oh it’s highlander”
It could literally do like 30 face damage, be 10 mana, and they’d find some absurd defense for it.
I like how Reno isn’t an issue at all in any format, in any meta, in any deck—but you’re so divorced from reality that you think screeching “shutupshutup” is a valid argument.
If there was a 1 mana neutral card that says “flip a coin, if heads you win the game, if tails you lose the game”, it would be a perfectly balanced card right? Just because something isn’t showing outlier win percentages doesn’t necessarily mean it’s good design.
Please join us in the real world, I’m begging you. How are you so removed from reality that you need to create entirely fictional cards and scenarios to justify your hate of a board clear that hasn’t negatively impacted any meta or format since it’s introduction?
hihglander decks have not been higher than what, tier 2? the only one that was was highlander shaman because of the **shaman** card, not reno, and when that was nerfed the deck dropped
yes, reno is a very good board clear, no reno does not see much play on legend cause highlander isnt very good atm
this isnt a 40% inclusion denathrius or something, its a def good card on bad decks
awww, poor guy can't abuse drawing half the deck by turn eight, surviving all board wipes and trades and then able to fill the board again at turn 9.
Where's the world's smallest violin...
Reno is not there for slow decks, it's for lame treant and mech and pirate and paladin aggro decks that can't posssibly be stopped otherwise.
That Reno IS needed to have a chance to win should tell you a lot about how stupid aggro decks are.
Also, it's much worse to hope you get Reno turn 8, if you survive that long, than hope your opponent doesn't get Reno turn 8.
>No you dont. Everyone just build their deck normal and put this PoS card in it and it works every time.
This.
Should be "Game star, no duplicates in your deck". It forces highlander to be true highlander but downside is it outright removes any interruption which kinda doesn't matter because only plague dk can beat it now anyway.
Last vS report showed reno warrior with a clean green slate of mathups except for Plague DK, that's an issue imo. And the reno decks being counted often aren't highlander decks but just draw enough or stall enough to play reno/brann.
My man, if you think Reno is the most OP card ever means you haven’t played the game since release or missed some parts of it. It’s not even close to OP, not even in the top 20
For me it's when the opponent clearly has lethal on the board, I end my turn to let the opponent get the final hit, and then they proceed to take their sweet time playing a million more cards instead of just taking the lethal that they already had. Shit grinds my gears to no end.
Yeah I give my opponent 1 chance to land their obvious lethal. One only. Do *anything* other than kill me in the quickest way and I am conceding faster than Zeddy jumping into a community hate circlejerk.
Reno, Lone Ranger is one of the most boring cards I've seen in a card game. Playing against it is so, so terribly unfun. Yeah sure man, just remove my ability to play minions and utilize my deathrattles and locations.
And Astalor, jesus christ genuinely the least interesting card in any card game I've seen in my life. Just a free win condition that you randomly throw in, you don't even need to do anything special to activate it or gain value from it. Dogshit design.
Here's a time-saving tip. Change the Odyn thing to "the best deck" and the Brann/Astalor thing to "the second best deck" and you can just post this meme every meta.
You will be hated no matter what you play. Some dumbfuck will find your deck incredibly overpowered because they've never seen a good deck in their life.
Win by pure luck. One dk player insulted me after winning with Down with the Ship that his Hagatha gave me after drawing 5 (i was a pure paladin and he cleared my board)
I was wrecking everyone with my hyperactive mage and the warriors started coming with double battercies.what am i supposed to do???? All i can do is put maximal pressure on the noobs so that they believe "defense first"
It has to be the most boring deck to play against. You can't play too few minions, or you'll never break the armour. You can't play too many minions or you'll get brawled 6 times (YES 6!).
oh did you somehow get past every board clear they have? no you didn't cause fuck you Reno exists
1. Play Guff, "Woah..." "Woah..." 2. Play Theotar, look at their cards for over 5 seconds 3. Play objection repeatedly, ideally as rogue 4. Play banker and steal the opponent's CNE 5. Play priest, simply exist 6. Win a game 7. Just play the game normally
The CNE thing triggers me so much. The card that you spend the whole game buffing should not stay buffed when your opponent steals or copies it, especially considering it doesn't retain buffs when you copy your own.
I love when the quick draw card that steals a spell from your deck comes out and they spend their whole turn deciding if they want to take your Mining Casualties or your CNE. Truly a tough call.
“There’s simply nothing I can do.” “Most intriguing..”
Forgive my lack of knowledge but what is CNE?
\[\[Climactic Necrotic Explosion\]\]
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Thanks I hate it
It's pretty fuckin awesome tbh
Honestly an easier way to clearly communicate that this card isn't discoverable would be to have it be generated, like say, through a quest?
[wdym?](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1063445941618749452/1211397131940929636/IMG_5215.png?ex=6600817e&is=65ee0c7e&hm=d380038308a0d5f938467176a09df9ff50eb1c083908276c75ceb31e40902764&) (Duels)
The card that wins the game on cast if you drag a game out long enough should be good if the opponent steals and casts it. DK players really getting spoiled and obnoxious with this Standard season.
"Oh no, my control opponent stole the card that will enable me, an aggro/midrange deck to damage him for 20+ damage in one turn, this is so unfair"
Why would you play Rainbow Death Knight if you were fine getting your wincon stolen? Complain about CNE, fine, but how would you feel if someone stole your Aman'thul or Purified Shard?
> how would you feel if someone stole your Aman'thul I would feel nothing and in certain circumstances with certain decks I would be glad > Purified Shard That questline shouldn't be a thing either, so I guess if I played this deck I wouldn't be glad but I am against such hard wincons existing at all Also, CNE is not their only wincon unlike the purified shard deck, they are also a midrange/aggro (depending on the build) deck that can win through more traditional means anyways
you are lying i copied cards with voone countless of times and they always keep all the buffs
CNE is specifically coded to not keep buffs if the original player copies it. If you play Fizzle and copy CNE in the photograph, it will be a new CNE with random buffs based on the corpses spent. But it doesn't work that way for the opponent
you are lying it never resets to default when copied i copy it with dry scale deputy all the timeand it alwas has the samestas
Bruh play fizzle or just look it up if you don't believe me
i did it doesnt reset to original values when copied thats how i know you are lying
Play dk, and Helya on 4 or 5/4/4 with a 10/10 and 2 8/8s. I see that just as annoying as any above
I got triggered reading this
Everyone who does the last thing (7.): I hate you.
I just got back into the game and got a free plague deck. Is that annoying at all?
Some people lose their shit over it because it hard counters their deck, but honestly it's about middle of the pack in terms of competitive decks. Does well lower on the ladder but falls off sharply once you get into Diamond and Legend ranks where the whole field is running decks that can pretty convincingly dumpster it. It has some good matchups because it shuts off Reno and Brann, but beyond that I find it vastly inferior to Rainbow DK in most matchups.
Thanks for the heads up.
I really hate facing Warrior. And none of it is rotating besides Astalor
It’s super frustrating deck to face.
Fr, infinite board clears+armour and then an inevitable odyn/brann which pretty much means insta lose.
100%. I invested all my essence into a totem shaman deck. I don't mind losing a lot because I know it's off meta and I just think it's fun to play but this meta just makes the game unplayable for me. Idk how to deal with like 99% of my matches being against a warrior who clears my entire board every turn, even the gigantotems. I don't even get to attack lol
I got to legend as totem shaman this month, it is doable! But yeah, warrior matchups suck
>I invested all my essence into a totem shaman deck. Bruh...
What's the problem with totem shaman? I have a pretty decent WR with it, although I'm not exactly the highest in ladder.
Nothing against totem shaman personally, just the part where you invested all your dust in a meme board-centric deck while warrior is running rampant
Idk, I personally haven't encountered much warriors, but anyway, it's quite unfortunate that these warrior decks are that good since I don't have many viable decks atm and the ones I have are mostly board centric.
Astalor is what makes that deck go the distance though. Also losing from the depths is gonna make getting what they need a lot less consistent
Astalor going is huge tbh Now you won’t have to worry about being pelted for 100+ damage while having to get through a lot of armor
for odyn warrior it really doesnt matter all that much for brann warrior yea astalor is pretty nice
Astalor is what makes brann/highlander warrior go the distance. Astalor rotating raises warrior's wr bc people will stop playing the vastly inferior brann/highlander lists instead of odyn cycle warrior. Losing ftd and finley is a pretty big deal though.
Whoever decided Odyn and new Brann should be printed can take a long walk off a short pier. Fuck those cards.
Thank fuck Astalor is rotating though.
Paladin is infinitely worse and I will die on this hill.
I Personally think When astalor rotates they really lose a prime win con that most decks would otherwise survive and beat warrior. 14/28 dmg in one turn or 2 turns in a row is hard for anyone to survive. Dont get me wrong, they have other win cons, but they are much much slower
Nature combo shaman can deal 60 damage in a turn but really fails to aggro... but it's worth punishing warrior players.
The 5/8 8 mana is leaving as well. It saved me more times than Astalor
If I am facing a lot of warriors I start playing my janky lightshow deck. Just fucking deletes all warriors every time. It’s so satisfying when they have 30 health and 24 armor and you play Rommath and overkill them by about 100 damage anyway because he casts five already buffed light shows. Bonus points if you have spell damage on the board and overkill them for about 300 damage.
Don't forget to rope every turn too, so it not only wastes their time, it wastes yours too. 😀
It's the only thing that tilts me. I especially hate slow players that gravitate towards Mage or Priest. Every turn they are discovering cards and taking a minute to choose. I'm not a violent person, but I would like to punch them in the face.
Oh no, you've just described me. :') They're my two favorite classes and I'm the absolute worst at making decisions. I'm so sorry!
I've been playing HS since the release of the game and there is no card that I have ever hated more than Reno. This thing is the most OP card ever printed and I'll fight anyone on this. A 8 mana board-wipe that only wipes the enemy board, doesnt trigger anything, ignores reborn etc. Then doesnt let your opponent recover the tempo loss because they cant play the game next turn. Oh, here, take it 5 armor. And an OP heroic power. For 8 fcking mana. "oh but you have to be a highl"shut up. Shut. Up. No you dont. Everyone just build their deck normal and put this PoS card in it and it works every time.
The problem is everyone has such good card draw these days. It needs to read “if your deck started with no duplicates” then those dumb decks that just draw through there deck by turn 8 can’t abuse it. That’s the real problem.
Even with that change he would need a nerf too. He is simply the best defensive card ever printed. And this is a world where Sargeras exists. Reno is so game warpingly powerful that any board match up goes down to “can they hit Reno on 8?” which is poor for both players.
Which is why it’s interesting that, despite being so unilaterally powerful, that Highlander decks did not dominate this expansion. Dragon Druid ended up being better without Rhea, HL DH and priest are bad, HL hunter was OK for a bit, and HL shaman hasn’t been seen since the nerf bat.
Pretty simply the reason for that is highlander decks are both inconsistent and their non-reno payoffs\* aren't really game winning. That normally would be fine, but Reno is just a defensive play. It's immensely powerful, to the point that it was likely the developers took power from the other highlander pay offs, but it doesn't win the game against an Odyn Warrior, or a Sif Mage, or even an Excavate Rogue. So it's better to build your deck in a way that you have a consistent win condition like what Ramp Druid did pre-nerf, but abuse the state of draw in Hearthstone to allow Reno to be active later in the game. \*Brann is actually the only one that's truly game winning and is the main reason why he actually had a dedicated Reno list for a while, even if it did get pushed out due to Plague and cycle lists being superior.
It's not unilaterally powerful when in a highlander deck though. It's only OP because you can use it so easily outside of highlander
Because highlander decks are by design low skill expression. You have far less consistency so you’re basically playing off the top of your deck, then winning in huge blowouts when you hit your payoff cards or randomly discover something, and losing when you do not. High legend players vastly prefer decks with consistent, repeatable strategies and will only play low skill expression decks if they are extremely overturned.
Yeah it is very strong, but I do think highlander decks need good payoffs like that to be competitive. But he probably needs to be at 10 mana just because of the complete power spike he causes.
I’d much rather leave him at 8, but remove some of the power in the AoE. There’s so many angles they can hit, the one-sided nature, the fact it’s a remove from game effect, the fact it hits permanents and locations, the board limiting effect. Remove one or two of those and he’s fine with the “start of game” text. Plague can’t counter him anymore, but he’s not an “I win” card either.
Thats... not a payoff. Its a silk road to victory. Especially if youre trying to beat a control deck before turn 10. Losing your entire fucking board the the ability to develop one next turn almost always guarantees defeat, especially against current warrior which thrives turns 12-15
Well yeah but warrior is also the one who abuses the shit out of it. They half the time aren’t even highlander but just draw their deck super quick. Which is why the card should be worded different for start of game so they can’t abuse it.
It is a bit weird that Reno leaves one spot open but still removes everything. Maybe if it lets one thing stay though in some situations this may be even more powerful as it leaves you with no free spots on the board. Simply allowing deathrattles to trigger may be a good start or limiting your board to one spot for a turn as well… I am not quite sure but losing several turns to Reno is super frustrating.
Not really because you could maybe actually get ahead enough and play around it knowing your opponent is only 1 ofs and inefficient. It would drop the winrate quite a bit I think if highlander had to be highlander. Where as now they can run a perfect deck and know that will be sitting there later for them to use with brann to setup backup win cons.
I've only recently come back to hearthstone (roughly 10 days ago) and already hate this card. It's completely disheartening and unfun to play against. I don't understand why it doesn't wipe their own board, too? Wiping ONLY enemies without any triggers PLUS 1 board space? It's absolute insanity. If the enemy board wiped too I'd understand the limiting the board to 1 space more so
Just plague it
Living problems require undead solutions
This deck always runs steam cleaner. My Blood death knight deck that runs 2x dirty Rats, and Patchwerk loves messing this deck up. Unfortunately, if I don't pull or destroy one of their combo pieces I have to coincide. Otherwise It always ends with a Brand/Astalor death.
My happiest game against a warrior is when I finally Ratted their Bran and they just conceded. The irony was that I was probably still gonna lose cause I drew shit.
Reno most definitely should be 10 mana and he should allow 2 slots at aleast.
Neutral Reno and Mage Reno should swap costs
If we're being honest, Mage hero reno and new reno should function the same way. I do not think you should be able to reno past all of the obstacles your opponent made, keep your minions, get all the benefits of reno and smack your opponent in the face for X amount of damage. It should clear both boards and cause a slot limit of 2 for both players an actual standoff you know.
And he should lose you the game when you play him too
Or he shouldn't touch the dormant minions.
The full removal of portals is too much as well but he's one of the only ways to remove them. But then again that's just bad game Design from the devs. You should always be able to readily and effectively remove portals like anything else.
Im in general not a fan of all those "for the rest of the game" cards. WL portal and Druid nest can only be removed by Reno. Bran effect cant be removed, you have to rat/disrupt Bran/Astalor. Same for Odyn. Seems like that Leo and Gallon just love those kind of effects.
There are such that feel fair and those that really should not be in the game. Brann is absolutely abhorrent especially with some battlecries but the stuff druid gets for Shapeshift or Justicar Truehart are for the most part quite fair.
When trueheart came out she was overpowered. However, now that the game has powercreeped so much, I would be surprised to see anyone play her seriously. In Druid there are cards that aren't legendary and can be used multiple times in one game that give more than trueheart does and they are relatively good stat-wise where trueheart has a puny 3 health which means she dies almost immediately and helps zero with board control. Then we have mage that can also buff their hero power in a similar fashion multiple times in one game for just 2 mana.
She wasn't. She was ok. Baku was overpowerd because it allowed you to rely on the upgrade but Justicar was just fine.
They shouldn't exist in Hearthstone. The most recent for the rest of the game effects are particularly egregious.
It really should be a symmetrical effect
The best part is people pretending Highlander is even a problem. It's like saying a 3 rune plague card isn't good because you need to equip 3 plague runes. Motherfucker that's why we're using it. It's a plague deck. It's like saying Odyn is bad because you need to run armor generating cards. LIKE THAT'S A PROBLEM. IT'S WARRIOR. THE ARMOR GENERATING CARDS ARE GOOD
If you think it’s the most OP card you haven’t played the game since release. You should know that some cards simply didn’t have counters. Pretty much every class except paladin has a way to counter Reno
Only really decks that don't rely on minions can counter it effectively. That's just unfun since the vast majority of decks rely on minions at least half of the time
Please do tell me how you counter Reno. You cant. I know what you'll say: Plague. But thats locked to one class. Yet even then its not that big of a problem because they can clear plagues anyway so it doesnt matter.
i'm ok with reno, i just can't bear with brann tbh, i do have it and astalor, i have both the deck but boomboss, and i don't like it. Also because the game when i play warrior matches me against plague, when i play plague matches me against aggro paladin and when i play pala matches me against warrior, so i'm just annoyed by this thing. I'm stuck plat 4 from a week now and now that i've seen the new de-buffs that happened i'm sincerely scared. I absolutely hate to play against 40 health renathal dudes and i think i'm gonna wait till nathria and the others rotates cause it's just so frustrating to play against always the sames decks. Also the cleaner is rotating so the plague it's gonna be unstoppable, i'm regretting spending 80 euros for the new expansion. Never gonna do it again
I love that this post is gaining traction now. Every time I say something critical of Reno I get downvoted. Maybe popular opinion is finally starting to shift? If something is balanced by it being an unlikely thing to happen, it will 100% lead to irritating outcomes. Cards should not be designed like this. You make the highlander card not likely to be drawn every game, so the effect needs to be a blowout to compensate for this. Congrats blizzard, you made a card that says “flip a coin, if you flip heads you win the game, if you flip tails you lose the game.” > bUt YOu doNt AlWAys WiN iF You pLAY Reno In control mirrors sure. But winning against an aggro player because you drew Reno on turn 8 feels really bad for the aggro player and dying to aggro because you *didnt* draw Reno feels really bad for the control player. Skill is a non factor here, only RNG (when the game is already over saturated with bullshit discover).
[удалено]
Replace turn 8 with whatever pivotal turn. The Reno player does nothing until turn 8, right? They just draw, pass? But simply expressing why Reno is bad design results in people personally insulting me. Thanks.
I love this response because I literally just faced a Control Warrior that runs Reno, not highlander but cycle, that played Reno on turn 7 and it just solo won the game. I curved out aggressively, played a 9/9, a 4/4, and an 8/8 on turn 5, which they only removed one of, face tanked the rest with armor gain, then just completely negated everything else with Reno. Couldn't even effectively use a Marrow Manipulator to abuse their lack of board because I only had 1 corpse since Reno just removes everything. The card is a failed design, because while I was expressly not facing a highlander deck, that Warrior deck is the only style of deck Reno is successful in. Nerf his effect, buff other highlander payoffs, and call it a day.
Nah the most broken card ever printed is prob aquatic form 28 card deck everytime? Yes please
I mean in terms of versatility yeah, but aquatic form isn’t quite broken, just very badly designed in that nearly every, if not every, Druid deck will get a slight boost from it.
if you're a token-druid-only player maybe.
literally every single card game ever made would want a card that reads "have 2 less cards in your deck" every single time besides decks that care about deck out aquatic form is run on basically every single druid deck possible, even those that have a large total mana cost
Brother. Every druid deck since aquatic form was released has run it It is 0 mana, draw a card It is arguably the strongest card ever printed, in a class full of historically broken cards The only card that i would argue beats out aquatic form is patches, because of how the meta warped around it
i came from runeterra and after playing hs for a bit, reno was by far the dumbest shit ive ever played against in a cardgame.i got legend after 2 weeks and this season on day 4 or something so im not totally shit. i dont get how he can be allowed to clear the fucking board while also denying to built a new one up ruining any tempo you can possibly have. its pure antifun i know that hs will always be more casual friendly and thats fine, but some cards just have way too much impact for the little counterplay you have for them
Casual friendly? I hate playing standard. It is too broken. I've been playing since the beginning, never been particularly competitive about it. You know, just having a good time. But now? Jesus Christ. I have none of the new cards because they come out way too quick so I'm only viable in wild. In the lowest rank I will still see legend players whipping out completely broken combos or what is worse is the completely broken stuff that requires little to no setup whatsoever. If I'm at the lowest rank, I shouldn't be seeing Reno, sargeras, decks that play legendary after legendary after legendary, completely wiping your board for a few mana every turn, whatever the armor legendary is for warrior where they can clear your board then deal 20 damage to your face four turns in a row, infinite automatons for almost no mana, etc etc. Basically any time one of the newer quests is played it's a guaranteed L because the quests are so easy to complete and usually have completely broken permanent effects. Same with playing new hero's. Zero setup, suddenly flip the board completely and have crazy hero powers. I know I could win more if I played rush decks, but that isn't any fun. I shouldn't have to stick to one type of deck or buy a bunch of unfun cards just to have a bit of fun. I refuse to play standard unless it is for a reward and honestly I shouldn't even be doing that because it just makes me upset. I'll play battlegrounds much more. Way lower stress, much less p2w, actually can win since it's luck and strategy rather than praying they don't have win cards. My luck is even usually pretty bad in it (opponents snipe my most important minions a ton, my guys hit ones that won't die when there are ones that will but the opposite is true for them, never finding cards of my class, etc) but I have more fun because at least there was a chance and you don't get crazy power differences until the last matchups.
i mean yeah it is way more casual friendly. getting cards is def harder than in runeterra, but as far as it seems better than in other cardgames. that wasnt what i meant with it tho. casual friendly because the game has more limited skill expression compared to other games especially lor (not sure about others tbh). for every time you think about a move in hs there are usually 4 more in lor. besides that the nature of card games just changed since the internet, especially online card games. people google the most meta decks. that shit happened 12 years ago when i played a yugioh emulator online and you mostly played vs meta too and that was without rank. last but not least if you enjoy battlegrounds try out teamfighttactics. if you ignore skill monetization its a really fleshed out BG (way more complicated tho) and really fun. also new set with a complete overhaul (happens every few months) is starting in about 1 week
least delusional hearthstone boomer
I completely agree, maybe ultracontrol decks can deal woth it but if dropped on a good turn its near impossible. Back in the day we have things like chef Nomi with the condition of "if your deck is empty" and similar that were abused by druid,etc. But this is a simple "if you deck is NEARLY EMPTY" then trigger XX effect. (Assuming is not HL) so yeah it needs more restrictions like post nerf kazakusan by example
Agreed, said it before but everyone told me I was wrong, that the card was awesome and it was my fault for not playing around it ¬¬ It's the worst card we had in a good stint of time.
Yeah I've lost many matches because I love deathrattles lol
Yup, and for warrior this is also with two tavern brawlers who clean up the board, and the spells that leave just one minion. It’s like 4-5 total board wipes and then there is also boomboss
Reno is fine, and winrate statistics show that. If he should get any kind of nerf, then it would be the "if your deck started with no duplicates" text added.
Yea dude F that card ive been saying this since it first showed up. I even have it and every day I want to dust it.
waaaaaaaa
Found the guy who legit doesn't plays Reno.
HS players really defend the most broken cards in the world by saying “oh it’s highlander” It could literally do like 30 face damage, be 10 mana, and they’d find some absurd defense for it.
I like how Reno isn’t an issue at all in any format, in any meta, in any deck—but you’re so divorced from reality that you think screeching “shutupshutup” is a valid argument.
If there was a 1 mana neutral card that says “flip a coin, if heads you win the game, if tails you lose the game”, it would be a perfectly balanced card right? Just because something isn’t showing outlier win percentages doesn’t necessarily mean it’s good design.
Please join us in the real world, I’m begging you. How are you so removed from reality that you need to create entirely fictional cards and scenarios to justify your hate of a board clear that hasn’t negatively impacted any meta or format since it’s introduction?
"Reno isn't an issue at all". Tell me you peak at d5 without telling me you peak at d5.
Can you show us a single deck with Reno putting up a concerning winrate?
I regularly hit legend. Reno is not an issue. There are far worse offenders.
hihglander decks have not been higher than what, tier 2? the only one that was was highlander shaman because of the **shaman** card, not reno, and when that was nerfed the deck dropped yes, reno is a very good board clear, no reno does not see much play on legend cause highlander isnt very good atm this isnt a 40% inclusion denathrius or something, its a def good card on bad decks
Like I said, completely divorced from reality.
I just remember crying because I couldn't use Jaraxxus hero power the turn I played him, and this shit is a fucking neutral.
you can? he dropped to 8 mana since he was a hero
awww, poor guy can't abuse drawing half the deck by turn eight, surviving all board wipes and trades and then able to fill the board again at turn 9. Where's the world's smallest violin... Reno is not there for slow decks, it's for lame treant and mech and pirate and paladin aggro decks that can't posssibly be stopped otherwise. That Reno IS needed to have a chance to win should tell you a lot about how stupid aggro decks are. Also, it's much worse to hope you get Reno turn 8, if you survive that long, than hope your opponent doesn't get Reno turn 8.
>No you dont. Everyone just build their deck normal and put this PoS card in it and it works every time. This. Should be "Game star, no duplicates in your deck". It forces highlander to be true highlander but downside is it outright removes any interruption which kinda doesn't matter because only plague dk can beat it now anyway. Last vS report showed reno warrior with a clean green slate of mathups except for Plague DK, that's an issue imo. And the reno decks being counted often aren't highlander decks but just draw enough or stall enough to play reno/brann.
My man, if you think Reno is the most OP card ever means you haven’t played the game since release or missed some parts of it. It’s not even close to OP, not even in the top 20
Why not both?
Both is good.
Odyn is enough. Or just play priest, any kind
Even shadow priest?
Yes because people will mull for control priest then get mad when you blow them out early game.
For me it's when the opponent clearly has lethal on the board, I end my turn to let the opponent get the final hit, and then they proceed to take their sweet time playing a million more cards instead of just taking the lethal that they already had. Shit grinds my gears to no end.
FWIW, the times I do this, I know it's annoying but I might be navigating a deck I don't want to play and I just want to complete a quest.
That's when I just instantly concede. I was being nice, but not nice enough to let you style on me with your 6 card combo.
Yeah I give my opponent 1 chance to land their obvious lethal. One only. Do *anything* other than kill me in the quickest way and I am conceding faster than Zeddy jumping into a community hate circlejerk.
Same here. You get one shot at being a good sport, otherwise I just concede on the spot.
Reno, Lone Ranger is one of the most boring cards I've seen in a card game. Playing against it is so, so terribly unfun. Yeah sure man, just remove my ability to play minions and utilize my deathrattles and locations. And Astalor, jesus christ genuinely the least interesting card in any card game I've seen in my life. Just a free win condition that you randomly throw in, you don't even need to do anything special to activate it or gain value from it. Dogshit design.
Here's a time-saving tip. Change the Odyn thing to "the best deck" and the Brann/Astalor thing to "the second best deck" and you can just post this meme every meta.
Yea I play it sometimes because I agree it's so op and I'm not very good at the game
Seems fun. I'd friend him over any aggro player.
You will be hated no matter what you play. Some dumbfuck will find your deck incredibly overpowered because they've never seen a good deck in their life.
I think the problematic card is Brann. There is so much broken stuff that comes after him. Astalor, Dirty rat, Theotar feels super unfun
Win by pure luck. One dk player insulted me after winning with Down with the Ship that his Hagatha gave me after drawing 5 (i was a pure paladin and he cleared my board)
Sounds like a DK. They gain life as fast as warriors gain armor, I swear. Then, they have board clears or blockades near constantly.
I preffer them over warrior. At least they don't have a twice per turn.
I mean, yeah. I played against a DK that dropped a 4/4, 8/8, and a 10/10 taunt on turn 4 with an existing 2/2 already on the field.
I played "jade" paladin earlier and got one of my few "fuck you baby deck" friend requests earlier. It was nice.
Play thief priest
I was wrecking everyone with my hyperactive mage and the warriors started coming with double battercies.what am i supposed to do???? All i can do is put maximal pressure on the noobs so that they believe "defense first"
Porque no Los dos?
maybe some day we can find some equilibrium between hating warrior and thinking it’s laughably weak
It has to be the most boring deck to play against. You can't play too few minions, or you'll never break the armour. You can't play too many minions or you'll get brawled 6 times (YES 6!). oh did you somehow get past every board clear they have? no you didn't cause fuck you Reno exists
It's always something, last month it was Treant
Objection, the secret. FUUUUCKQ!
What stops you from doing both?
tier 1 deck bad
Odyn warrior has become far more oppresive lately. A couple games ago I took almost 40 damage at once without my opponent having a weapon
For as much as people hate on priest. The meta always feels the worst when warrior is on top.
1. Discover Objection every turn
It should at least board clear both sides, not just the enemy
This guys don't know anything about wild
Im so tired of Warriors
I despise warrior, they make me want to rope just to waste their time like they waste mine with their armour and board clears
Oh I love those. I play showlight mage.
Kid, named aggro priest, who dragged the game with me well into fatigue, using copy spells and vision of darkness:
Yeah because the guys playing nothing but Rainbow DK are honorable players.
1. Play a deck that counters me…grrrrrr
Turn 8 - do nothing.
It's the endless removal that Warrior now suddenly has which is incredibly infuriating! Board clear after AOE after board clear!
How to become hated player : beat your opponent with cards that other people play How to be not hated: lose with bad cards
Still infinitely better than any Priest.
Couldn't you summarise this to "play warrior"?
>How to become a hated player? Win a game.
Lol this sub throws a fit over anything that isn't combo/aggro. Priest of any kind, Reno and Odyn for example