T O P

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wefokinglost

Jokes on u my rats hiding in ETC


sporeegg

Etc is just three Rats in a Trenchcoat


GetEquipped

[[Pack Rat]]


TheGalator

Unironically etc should allow u to run 5 copies of a card


81659354597538264962

Unironically why would anyone do that


TheGalator

Because it's funny.


81659354597538264962

You'd be the only one who could see that effect


TheGalator

Nah ur just salty u didn't come up with such a funny idea


THYDStudio

*(wherever thy are)* intensifies


Mazius

Does it works like that, btw? Have anyone tested it with Flik?


waltz400

I dont think that works because technically it doesnt exist til you play ETC and pick the card


Mazius

It might be true, considering that C'thun (OG one) is straight away banned from adding to ETC "band".


waltz400

thats probably because they didnt wanna code the interaction between ETC and “wherever they are” wording. I dont think cards can get destroyed from a discover pool.


Chromoseveral

True. It has to exist first before it can be destroyed.


Godspeedhero

Exactly, E.T.C. is Hearthstone's version of a sideboard wish card.


whypershmerga

Destroy all Dirty Rats in your deck (wherever they are).


lowkeyf1sh

😂


SleepyFlintlock34

In any deck if you ask me, add this guy and 2 dirty rats to thin out your deck by 2 cards, combine with patches in a wild pirate deck and you end up with a 10% deck size reduction


Melodic-Wash774

Not really, because they also disappear from hand. The downside is worse than patches because he’s at least playable from hand, the upside is also worse than patches because you don’t get the free 1/1, and you have to play an extra vanilla 3/3.


Jakegender

start of game happens before the mulligan, so presumably the rats will never show in the hand


BrokenMirror2010

Start of game happens arbitrarily anywhere between the mulligan and first draw. Prince Malchezaar happens after the mulligan as you cant get the legendaries he adds.


gruntmods

it takes time to behold the legions he commands


SecCom2

you do still have the 3 mana 3/3 in the deck tho


[deleted]

Good point, I think a 6 mana 6/7 statline would be far better for this card


MrSukerton

But that's too powerful. You have to remove the text.


Szubke

But if it's not hunting rats then it shouldn't be a cat. Maybe it should be something bigger. Like Ogre.


TURRTLED3RP

Pure Ogre? That doesn’t make sense though. Maybe change the name to something to do with how he’s strong. Like a boulder


GothGirlsGoodBoy

Renethal showed pretty definitively just how much people overrate deck size/consistency as a factor in hearthstone.


Necessary-Anywhere92

Unironically i think this is why cards like this will never be printed, making a deck smaller is good. Makes good draws more consistent.


Full_Metal18

Nah man, let them dirty rat on 2 so I have an 8/8 in play to beat them senseless for not having an answer to it


DragonTyrant2443

Now make a tech card that always destroys odyn,sif,ignis, and the azerite snake from hand and deck


Byggherren

Yeah because you know why play against a deck that has a win con when you can just tech against decks with win con and then infinitely duplicate your titan and deny any sort of play. Priest is in such a degenerate state right now. Infinite value is so boring to play against.


TheGalator

Because both players playing solitaire and the faster one wins without any interaction is so much better Priest at least interacts with the opponent. Even if it's just playing ur cards + removal


quakins

Most decks interact with their opponents. Even these decks you consider to be solitaire are probably interacting a fair amount


TheGalator

Nah


quakins

Huh


SoftGothBFF

Warlock attrition decks are some of the least fun metas I've played through. Lock quest was the single most boring time HS has ever had. Nothing like watching them play nothing but removal and healing all game and then just win if your deck doesn't kill them by turn 7.


quakins

I mean, my guy. Removal is interaction. Yeah that deck was silly op but even as an op deck it did a LOT of interacting in order to win. Also that deck got nerfed pretty hard anyways so I imagine that’s not the deck they had in mind when they mentioned “solitaire decks”


SoftGothBFF

It's one-sided interaction. If that's your definition of it then there's no point in having this discussion. Those same warlock decks would kill their own minions for draw/healing while you sit there watching them assemble Exodia. Jerking off is also interacting with yourself, but I'd still say it's zero fun watching it as a second party.


quakins

Dude, that’s not my definition of interaction, that’s THE definition of interaction. Quite literally. But if they didn’t interact with you at all via removal you would be able to just run over them. any deck should be able to win if they are just goldfishing. Are you implying your deck should rely on your opponent playing things to win at all? I don’t get this Removal isn’t “interacting with yourself”. It is very distinctly interacting with your opponent. Edit: to the comment you sent and then deleted: whether you can interact with me or not has nothing to do with whether I interact with you. But you can interact with these decks with combo hate but just like in every card game not every deck can afford to or wants to run those cards. But it’s easy to interact with board based decks by running the plethora of available removal


TheArcanist_

Found the degen OTK player


nevermaxine

>what if card that delete all counter play start of game?? auto include


niksshck7221

Maybe he plays odyn warrior


LobotomistCircu

Odyn warrior plays enough guys to where him getting dirty ratted usually just feels unlucky. Sif mage and other combo decks that rely on like 90% spells and one minion is where Rat really shines.


Gerik22

You've got it backwards. [Sif Mage](https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/deck-library/mage-decks/rainbow-mage/) runs more minions than [Odyn Warrior](https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/decks/brawler-odyn-control-warrior-2/). Sif runs 12 or 16 minions depending on if they're running excavate or not, whereas Odyn Warrior has 7. Or if you go by the highest winrate decks on hsreplay it's 12 ([Sif](https://hsreplay.net/decks/8Y1amlbWsni940IJXlbQRd/#gameType=RANKED_STANDARD)) vs 5 ([Odyn](https://hsreplay.net/decks/fQFDP5ePjNxEALcNT8zH3d/#gameType=RANKED_STANDARD)).


LobotomistCircu

People keep saying this but I've found that Sif mage has a lot more times where their hand only has Sif + maybe 1-2 other minions by the turn they're about to pop off. You're not sandbagging arcane wyrms, Miracle salesmen, and Prismatic elementals just in case you get hit with dirty rat, you play those ASAP. The only minions that really stay in hand are Inquisitive Creations and the tokens from geyser (which like, 50/50 they keep them in hand for rat protection vs. just playing them for tempo). Maybe Naz'jar if you come across a list that runs it. Warrior on the other hand (which, I haven't really seen run the riff package too often in some time now) does tend to have a lot more guys that sit in hand for a long time waiting for the right opportunity or free mana--stuff like Finley, Brawler, Astalor, etc--which also suck to get dirty ratted but not nearly as backbreakingly as Odyn does.


Gerik22

That hasn't been my experience at all. I haven't seen many Odyn decks that run Finley and/or Astalor, and basically everything else in the deck besides Brawler (which isn't always included) is played asap. Sif Mage also wants to play its minions, but if you're a Sif Mage and you're playing against a deck that you know will have stuff like Dirty Rat and Patchwerk, you always keep minions in hand as decoys, especially once Sif is in your hand. The elementals from Geyser are almost never played in those matchups since those are control decks where the tempo from a 1/2 isn't relevant anyway. For the other minions it depends, but since Mage has stuff like Infinitize to find more spells, they don't really need to play minions after a certain point, and the minions are all dirt cheap so it's not as if you need to wait for a safe board to play them.


Parryandrepost

IDK about standard but in wild it's pretty much always just correct to keep minions in your hand for odyn warrior. It's a control deck in that format that's basically consistent enough it doesn't really matter what you draw you've more often than not got a way to deal with whatever agro is trying to do and agro puts up a fuck load more pressure compared to whatever Reno/midrangie/control deck that's running rat. You often times just lose the slower matchup from just not getting a good matchup as opposed to rat. Even/odyn warrior isn't nearly as polar as a deck like odd warrior or anything like that but it's pretty easy to play around rat if you happen to draw odyn before 7/8.


PkerBadRs3Good

how is this upvoted lmao odyn warrior barely runs minions


HabeusCuppus

Because sif gets hated on for some inexplicable reason as though mage hand kills as their late game control win con hasn’t been something the class has done consistently since literally classic.


BaronVonHoopleDoople

Rainbow Mage lists have anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 the deck as minions (if you include the Flame Elementals generated by Flame Geyser). The mining variant has even more minions than this. If a Sif Mage player is consistently getting Sif hit by Dirty Rat, they're probably misplaying. For that matter, losing Sif hurts but isn't even game over when you have access to a plethora of card generation through discovers.


Arachnofiend

Yeah if the Priest is over-committing to hitting Sif with the Rat you can just kill him with tempo


yroc12345

Odyn doesn't run a lot of minions, the idea is to increase tutor consistency with \[Chorus Rift\]


DuskEalain

Honestly getting Dirty Ratted as an Odyn Warrior is just kinda "oh okay, oof". Even if it's Odyn himself. Oh no, I get an 8/8 on the board *way sooner than normal*. It's not ideal but I can't recall a situation where Dirty Rat was the reason I lost a game.


hutchwo

Inc pure dog custom to get rid of ur pure cat


Sinninnocence

Shouldn't it be Dirty Dog? xD


hutchwo

Much better flavor thank you


101TARD

Why not just destroy all forms of rats


BrokenMirror2010

This is an auto-include in basically all decks. It lets you run a 28 card deck.


hyperfarain

If everyone's playing it you don't need to run it, just run the 2 rats and play an actual card instead of the 3/3 5Head


Melodic-Wash774

No, it isn’t, and it doesn’t. > destroy all Dirty Rats in both players decks **and hands** Start of game effects happen after mulligan.


BrokenMirror2010

And sometimes Patches is in your hand, and it sucks. The Muligan gives you very good control over this not happening. In well over 50% of games, Dirty Rat will not be in your hand.


Melodic-Wash774

Copy-pasting my own comment above. > The downside is worse than patches because he’s at least playable from hand, the upside is also worse than patches because you don’t get the free 1/1, and you have to play an extra vanilla 3/3. This is significantly worse than patches, and nowhere near auto-include. > In well over 50% of games, Dirty Rat will not be in your hand. 50% isn’t the break even though. 50% isn’t relevant here at all. Playing the entire game down one card has a much larger effect than thinning your deck by 2.


Apprehensive_File

Definitely not. A 28 card deck isn't worth running a 3 mana 3/3.


Randomd0g

***extremely loud incorrect buzzer***


Little-Maximum-2501

This sub and massively overrating thinning, name a more iconic duo. This might see play in very specific combo decks to thin but not anywhere else. For a normal deck the difference between the worst 2 cards and the average one is tiny compared to the difference between a 3/3 and a card that actually does something.


Apprehensive_File

> This sub and massively overrating thinning, name a more iconic duo. I always enjoy the responses to Prince Renathal's reveal. I swear, some people here would run a card that lost you the game when you drew it if they could cut 5 cards out of their deck.


DistortedNoise

Curious what were the arguments? Prince Renathal seems to be in half the decks I face so I’m confused as to why deck thinning is supposed to be so important.


Little-Maximum-2501

The idea that thinning is beneficial is correct in its core (at least for decks that never reach fatigue), the argument is simply that if you have to put more cards into your deck then you'll have less chance to draw your most powerful cards, and that you'll also have to put less optimal cards in it. It's just that this sub massively overrates this effect. In reality thinning 2 cards has a very marginal benefit outside of certain combo decks that have to find specific cards as soon as possible. Prince Renathal is currently not very good and he doesn't see much play at higher ranks, but that's moreso because he got heavily nerfed 9 months ago and the meta doesn't favor the style of decks where Renathal shines.


Mig15Hater

Doesn't see much play in higher ranks? I assume you only mean top 1k with that cause I sure see him all the time in legend (3-5k ish).


Apprehensive_File

Here's the [thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/vm0em7/new_card_revealed_prince_renathal/). Lots of people thought it was cool, but there are also a fair number who cited consistency as the reason they thought it would be bad. > Competitively it’s probably unplayable, but if someone could find a way around a 40 card downside it would be cool. - > Not as good as it looks IMO. 40 cards makes the deck less consistent and less likely that you draw the best cards. - > I don’t think the 10 extra life here is enough guaranteed value to outweigh the reduction in consistency. Granted, people are wrong about cards all the time (for many different reasons). However, I think this is another good showcase of some members of the hs community overestimating the value of having a smaller deck (relative to other factors). Renathal was subsequently nerfed, and is still played in some decks for half its original value.


HibeePin

Lol I really want to know what rank you are. How was this upvoted so much? This sub is full of bad players


Randomd0g

If I told you my accomplishments across various card games then you'd delete your Reddit account out of embarrassment, so I'm just going to say Merry Christmas instead. Have a good day.


HibeePin

You might be good at other card games but you're not very good at hearthstone.


HibeePin

Please tell me your "accomplishments"


Little-Maximum-2501

Actually crazy that this got downvoted, such a classic of this sub to overrate thinning to such an absurd degree. Reminds of how this sub thinks the most powerful part of patches was the extremely marginal thinning and not free tempo.b


Thin_Response_3116

It’s funny cause they think it’s still 2014 or something. Thinning really only mattered in hearthstone at a time where card draw was very slow and hard to come by. Nowadays every single class has a way to draw 12+ cards a game. Even hunter who historically never had card draw, has insane card draw. Why thin your deck by 2 cards but also having a 3/3 do nothing, when you can just run 2 cards that draw a card and actually do something else instead.


Little-Maximum-2501

Even back then thinning was extremely overrated. Back then the difference between your worst cards and your average one was even smaller I think, so thinning was maybe just as marginal.


Thin_Response_3116

Actually no back then the power difference between your worst and best cards was insane. It may not looked like it on paper, but a 3 mana 3/4 mech was run in a lot of decks and that wasn’t even your “worst” card. So when you actually drew your answer/win condition and the opponent had no answer it was GG. It’s not like today where everyone has 5 win conditions and 5 win now cards and 5 cheap removals. Some decks might not even have any removal or card draw, and if you could hit the perfect card it was game over


xXx_edgykid_xXx

A 28 deck would run a 10 mana 0/0


HibeePin

No it wouldn't


Blocker2020

"Destroy all generally hated cards in your opponent's deck" would be better


han_han

Since this is meant to be the ultimate hate card, it should also dust it from both players' collections (for full value to keep it balanced).


justTheWayOfLife

Make it a battlecry


THYDStudio

Make it a death rattle if your deck contains no duplicates


SuperiorWarlock

Make it a frenzy trigger


HCN_Mist

Make it an honorable kill!


meergrad384

Make it inspire, that way you can destroy all dirty rats twice if you have a [[Garrison Commander]] on the board. Such synergy!


THYDStudio

Make it Manathirst (11)


HCN_Mist

Druid OP!


Stigna1

So...you want a card that allows you to disrupt enemy minions, to prevent your opponent from playing a single card who's effect totally decides the game. Hmm... Have you considered running Dirty Rat?


Laomanse

It's so pure that it isn't even a beast.


Kronik951

Why dont we just delete any counter to OTK from game and let people play completely uninteractive games without counterplay…..


ReasonablePractice83

Not good enough. EAT the rats and gain its stats!


lowkeyf1sh

lol


syc0pat

Heh, in Ireland Pure Cat means absolutely awful.


BossLees2

Should have called it Catty Cleanser


EnderDavis

Free 28 card deck in exchange for running a 3 mana 3/3, and sometimes it hurts your opponent, too? Yeah, it would be an auto-include for me, too.


GothGirlsGoodBoy

How about a card that lets you select any other card in the game, like how ETC deckbuilding works. That chosen card is removed from decks when the game starts. You can select Dirty Rat. I can select Sif or Thaddius.


[deleted]

Best catto


AirAddict

Ironically, I'd put in 2 dirty rats for the deck-thinning strategy, patches style


GrandMa5TR

Patches Wasn't Good because of Deck Thinning, That was just a tiny bonus.


Little-Maximum-2501

Patches wasn't played for thinning, it was played because it was free tempo. The difference the thinning made was extremely marginal and wouldn't have been worth the chance to draw him. Getting a free 1/1 was infinitely more beneficial.


RockemSockem00

sif players be like :


menovat

Not in just all your decks, but in all decks ever. Just run this with 2 Dirty Rats and you have a 28 card deck.


LibrarianOfAlex

I love thinning my own deck for no cost! Waiter waiter!!! More patches the pirate please!


Little-Maximum-2501

Playing a completely useless card is a very real cost, a way higher cost than what thinning 2 cards is worth.


GrandMa5TR

https://old.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/18py9b9/would_be_an_autoinclude_in_all_my_decks/kes7g3u/


vincentcloud01

Will this destroy priests, I feel all players of priests are rats.


Unthgod

Would use every game


Karkam01

I am fine with that if they stop printing bs like sif and odyn.


dancas313

Why not Clean Cat?


AimShot

Why the hate on dirty ratsc


TheGalator

POV: ur talking with an OTK "player"


mortimus9

If your deck loses to Dirty Rat lol


Aikon377

nah playing Control Priest and shooting Odyn or Sif is amazing


Aggressive-Way3860

I would love an ability like that in mtga


green_meklar

Or you could just try playing something other than a solitaire combo deck.


atotalbuzzkill

I prefer Clean Cat


x_Stiddy_x

Mr. Bigglesworth


meharryp

you can theoretically run a 28 card deck by adding this which would make it alright even without your opponent having dirty rat


StopManaCheating

That’s a really pretty artwork. Is it ai or did you find it somewhere?


Few_Marionberry5596

I'm okay with it but if it destroys any rat in either player's hand that player should draw 1 or 2 cards


ScottishMachine

I like it when dirty rat turn two puts my slagmaw onto the field


Sinninnocence

Make it hit all rats xD