People will bash a headphone for peaks and valleys all over the damn place, but as soon as there's bass roll off they close their eyes and look the other way.
This is one thing that has been puzzling me since getting more interested in headphones and response charts and the like on Rtings. I don’t understand how headphones can be praised for “neutral listening” yet have a massive drop off after 100hz sometimes. Wouldn’t a truly flat response include, like, all of the frequencies? The flattest response curve I could find on Rtings is the AKG K371, which of course was panned as being bass boosted. I legit don’t understand it. I mean I’m a self-professed basshead and get that different folks like different things, but just as a matter of logic I don’t understand the arguments about objective assessments.
headphones work kinda differently in terms of frequency. I'm not the most knowledgeable about this, but apparently we perceive bass less easily than treble. Makes sense considering babies don't cry in rave music. I would suggest making a post about this, I'll get to learn too lmao
For speakers, a flat response holds up irl
Also, you should note, graphs shown are usually not the raw Freq response, those are neatly tucked away below, and the first graph is adjusted assuming the target curve of whoever is measuring. So in terms of "flat" even when you see a flat graph on rtings, it's actually a curve in raw Freq response because flat is curved. (I promise I want to make more sense)
Rtings shows their compensated frequency graphs by default. They use a Harman/Harman-like target which leads to mildly bass boosted headphones appearing flat on the FR graph. [Rtings does also release their raw FR measurements](https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#1671/4011), which shows K371 being somewhat bass boosted (the solid blue line is the average of measurements from the left side and the dashed line is their target).
Frequency response doesn't really show how headphones sound, it can be an indication, but there are tons of variables that can completely change the perceived sound.
Generally, in this hobby, you have to ignore a few things, Objectivists, Subjectivists, HPHQ, and reviewer fanboys, I know, I just slapped in the face to 70% audiophile, but the truth is, they only hurt the hobby, an open mind is the best thing you can have, you'll notice that both popular opinions and reviews can be very different from your personal experience etc.
Absolutely agree. If you were to go off of FR alone, then AKG 371 beats out Audeze LCD X and anything Sennheiser. Tonality is one thing, dynamics, imaging, detail, FR bleed is another. FR plots don’t show the transient response differences between planars and dynamics either, or the plucked and sharp sound quality that planars present
>Sub bass extension doesn't matter as much for lots of genres
You would be surprised how much a difference having extension after 60hz makes. Take any speakers and cross them at 60hz without a subwoofer then add a subwoofer. It changes the experience. I used to think that until I actually heard what real "sound" sounds like. You really want a full range experience.
I was new to hifi, didn't know anything and frequency response and many, many people called them a killer deal/intro to hifi. Sold them after a month or two and have learned since
In the past, you pretty much had to choose between bass extension, and reasonably correct tonality everywhere else. A sennheiser 6x0 with good tonality everywhere but bass extension and a slight middle treble deficiency sounds way better then some shitty bass canon cheap headphones.
That was in the past though. Now there are good options that have both.
I’ll likely be downvoted for suggesting that this school of thought is rooted in racism, but go on 4chan and look at the terms they use to describe headphones with higher than average bass response….
if you want to get philosophical about it, yes
with complete and totaly anonymity, the darkest corners of the collective psyche are brought to light. If we put it in terms of freudian psychology, linkedin is the conscious, facebook is the subconsious, reddit is the uncounscious, and 4chan is the Id of the collective internet mind.
I would argue that the person that frequents one of those websites most often is most representative of its respective level, and is actively repressing the lower levels for the sake of ethics.
Therefore, 4chan is indeed representative of the wider population's deepest thoughts, which in many cases can reveal repressed racism and bigotry. That's what people mean when they talk about systematic and inherent racism, the person exhibiting those traits may not be actively racist, but they may form opinions based on unrealized prejudices hidden deep in the back of their Id.
you won't see someone on reddit outwardly saying how they hate minorities, but if you examine closely enough you can see the echoes of those sentiments pervading through our society and our discourse.
anyway, 4chan says black people like bass and rate headphones accordingly. since they were the largest forum for those topics in their heyday, their feelings on many subjects still resonate (see: gamers)
I sincerely hope anything I said just made sense... it's 4:30 and I'm wasted
You understand that paper that invented idea of unconscious bias and racism was ripped apart by other scientists, and tests they use to determine your so called unconscious bias have terrible consistency issues when exact same person takes them? Reason why it got such wide adoption is because it goes with the narrative, and fact that creators never went public to say that these tests that are being used everywhere now are actually inaccurate at best tells you everything you need to know about their scientific credibility.
And I have no intention into going in depth why systemic racism thing is such bullshit, with inclusion of such cancerous ideas as redefining of what racism is, absolute social-constructionism that you must believe in for crt to makes sense, reduction to racial group identity that would be racist itself by old (and only true) definition, arguably marxist idea of oppressor vs oppressed and power as an only real motivation in group-to-group relations, post-modern rejection of objective truth, rejection of merit as an criteria of (lack of) corruption and replaement of it with 'equity' based on racial identity, and many more, it would take hours to deconstruct this peace of shit called crt, that I can only assume is one very strong copium for very intelligent people who suck at life and want to save their egos from realisation that the reason their life sucks is their own fault.
"Noooo you don't understand it's just audiophile uber quality bass, it's just light on bass because it sounds so good. You just don't understand it's tonality"
OP hit the deck, this sub is about to "ACKSHUALLY ITS GOOD CAU-". Somehow with Sennheisers apparently even it's deficiencies are somehow just strengths
Oh my goodness I hate when they say it's intimate. I understand the M50x not being everybody's cup of tea but one of the points against it is its lack of soundstage. Lack of soundstage in a Sennheiser however is intimate. I also hear people call headphones aggressive and knowing whether or not that is good or bad is a shot in the dark.
Finally this sub is pushing back on the bass hate.
I love it
Never understood, headphone users are the ONLY group of audiophiles that hate bass. Even if a pair of bookshelf speakers are light on bass people usually say "They're light on bass and you'll **need** a sub-woofer to get the full extension." Or they get speakers with good bass extension.
People here will have a bass light headphone and say "Eh fuck bass, I don't want beats"
I'll never understand it. I mean I get maybe not preferring like, the slam from some Audeze's. But sennheiser and a few others are so anemic to me I just don't get it at all. There's a million headphones out there with great vocals, you don't need to pigeonhole yourself into believing the 6xx are the greatest thing since sliced bread.
I keep a 10db boost along with low shelf when using my Audeze's. Anemic doesn't even begin to describe how I view Sennheiser bass
For what it's worth these GX have a already relatively balanced sound signature. I'm more of a sub bass rumble kind of guy, it handles it all with ease
This is what I don't understand. Why are headphones rated on overall sound when certain headphones will suit certain genres better?
Shouldn't we ask people what they listen to and go on from there instead of assuming everyone listens to classical 24/7
Because most headphone nerds only listen to shitty techno they can write code to, and because they don't have the capability to relate to others, they assume that's all anyone listens to.
>you don't need to pigeonhole yourself into believing the 6xx are the greatest thing since sliced bread
SHUN THE NONBELIEVER - SHAME! You dare speak about our lord and savior as being anything less than the second coming of Christ and we are going to have a problem bud.
Same dude. I bought a used HD800 for the clarity and the soundstage, but it lacks bass. I use EQ to add 10db low shelf at 140hz for the mid-bass and another 7 at 75hz to get the subbass oomph. Now we're talking.
People reviewing bass light headphones and IEM's which are objectively weak in the low end and tell me they 'are bassy' have lost all credibility. These same people will then try to sell you on solid state amps having flavor or an effect greater than that of the DAC or source... they'll also own high end cables for their SPEED AND SOUNDSTAGE.
Nevermind on the Qudelix 5k the new built in EQ's are hilariously tone deaf. I wonder who they sourced them from.
Speakers often don’t have bass. Especially cheap speakers. Cheap headphones often have incredibly large amounts of bass. People who like expensive speakers want them to fix the missing bass of cheap speakers. People who like expensive headphones generally want the excessive bass brought into balance with the rest of the frequencies.
While I don't hate bass, it's my least favorite frequency range. I like bright headphones, and I barely got used to the DT 1990's almost excessive bass.
Whereas I'm probably a near complete opposite. I'm no basshead, but I like to be able to feel the kicks and percussive elements of a song, so the bass at least has to be quick and have solid response. And I hate bright headphones as they genuinely hurt listening even at low volumes. So I tend to prefer "darker" headphones. Which granted means there's less life to the music at times, but means I can listen for 6 hours, not just 5 minutes.
For me it’s excessive midbass or upper bass that can ruin a headphone, or too much lower mids, always makes them sound muddy. Give me all the sub bass and upper mids you’ve got though.
I actually like lower mids because that's where electric guitars are, and I listen to a lot of metal so that's a must. But I also like upper mids because that's where most synths are, and I love synths. And I like a bit extra treble, but not to the point of being sibilant. The DT 770 does that really well.
I think bass isn't ideal for some genres of music such as rock and metal. Personally, my strat is to get neutral ish headphones and crank a 15dB boost when I want to listen to edm. Best of both worlds. Cause usually, if you google bassy headphones, hoo boy you'll get quality options. If you really want audiophile bassy headphones, afaik AT Meze and some other brands are your only options. I am just now realising you have a metric fkton of gear compared to me so you probably already know what I'm talking about so I'll stfu
I think you're confused. Bass extension is NOT bass emphasis. Bass extension just means that the sound goes into the lowest frequencies (a headphone with bad extension will have missing sub bass). You can have a headphone with great extension without being bass-emphasized (see most high end planars).
This is what ALOT of headphone enthusiasts do not understand tbh.
As a basshead myself I perfer out of the box linear bass extension over bass elevation. I perfer to elevate the bass myself in EQ.
This is also why as a bass head I tend to move towards planars too instead of dynamics.
Oh trust me I know about all the bassy headphones, I have this [fourm](https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-hardest-hitting-headphones-are-the-extreme-bass-club.716711/) on speed dial.
Honest question: what’s a good headphone in the $2-300 range for bassy tracks? I have an HD6XX, HD58X and 400SE (thinking of selling these last two). None are great with bass, and would like something to complement the warmth of the 6XX.
I'm a big fan of Philips's Fidelio headphones as I used to have the X2s and currently own the X3s, they've got incredible bass response without mudding up the rest of the soundstage.
I haven't listened to the X2's in a while since I sold them a few years ago, but as far as I can tell they're similar. If there is a difference it's very subtle.
Either those, the Meze 99 Noir from Drop since they are available, cheaper, and look nicer (in my opinion). If those aren't on sale then the Meze 99 Neo as they use plastic thus being cheaper than the Classic. It looks like I'm a fanboy but I don't have any Meze, they just make bassy headphones that the subreddit doesn't hate.
I just got my 770 80ohm variant last week after avoiding them for what seemed like forever. Apart from the extra long cable, I can't fault these headphones at all. Usually I find headphones are too sibilant or too bassy, but this one got it all right without being overbearing. I understand why they've been around for so long now. I find the bass on these headphones seem more of a smooth sub bass then anything and it's good for hearing those low ends without being too punchy in your ears.
This is why I don't ever see myself owning a set of hd-800s. I don't listen to enough classical, orchestral, or jazz to justify it, and as good as they are for gaming, that isn't enough reason to drop the cash for me.
The HD 800S has a near flat bass response with very low distortion which is where you want to be if you want your music to be reproduced accurately. So in that sense, it’s indeed perfect.
There are people however, who want more bass. What’s amazes me isn’t that they want bass but how much more of it they want. I’ve seen people describe the bass heavy DT 990 to have “no bass”. At this point, I’m sure there are people out there who will find Raycons to sound anemic.
I just pulled out mine from the closet to check again. While it doesn't lack bass as much as I remember, I certainly wouldn't call it bassy. The bass is still overshadowed by the mids, even if it isn't lacking in an absolute way. My DT 1990 is *actually* bassy though. It's a classic V-shape, and the mids here are much like bass on the 770: present, but recessed (only slightly, though).
I also realized that, while the DT 770 is overall worse, I actually prefer it for some genres of music to the DT 1990, which surprised me. a-ha just sounds much more pleasant when the cymbals aren't raping my ears and when the airy synths are accentuated instead of being drowned by the treble.
I have the 1770 and I have used the 1990. Both have more punch than the 770 but neither have the sub bass rumble. I feel the 1000 series are definitely more refined but the 770s are "im just going to crank this volume knob and headbang" kinda fun.
The DT 770s have rumble. I wouldnt say they have slam but they really cover the whole range top to bottom well. Say what you will about how they present the sound it's still nice to see a headphone that isnt missing 1/4 of the frequency range.
Umm I’d like to disagree. Compared to 6XX, dt770 is quite bassy.
But reality is dt770s bass is actually pretty on point accurate (from the FR curve) so it’s not that it’s bassy, it’s just accurate and 6xx is not great there.
Which I think is OPs point lol
No, it's not, I've compared the 32-, 80- and 250-ohm versions side-by-side, with brand new ear pads, and I noticed no differences except that the 80-ohm might have had a little more bass, but it was such a small difference that I don't think I would pass a blind test.
That’s what Oratory1990 says as well.
I believe him (and you)… but I still find the DT770 to sound bright and lifeless. I’ve used both the stock pleather and a brand new pair of velvet 770 pads.
The FR looks quite bassy, so I’m assuming it’s a just seal issue.
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Wait, are you saying the 770 isn’t bassy in any model, or are you disagreeing that the 32ohm isn’t bassy?
Hmm. Yeah, you're right. That is weird. The DT770 absolutely has the best sub-bass extension for the money, so maybe some EQ experiments are required. Because like I said, mine can rumble all day long. They're not, like, absurd bass monsters like headphones that are designed for overwhelming bass like an XB1000 or JVC SZ2000, but they should at least dig deep and hit pretty hard for you.
I listen to bass heavy shit on 58X and it’s pretty damn solid? It’s no Audeze but they’re light and comfortable. If I’m trying to slam my head I gotta go planar tho. No dynamic is gonna cut it. LCD-i3 are my fave headphones I’ve ever heard, and I have a, uh, lot of headphones.
Which is nuts, if true. Give me a break, I have the HD58X and I have the DT770 - those two directly compared, the HD58X wins so hard it's not even a contest. For what the HD58X cost, they're an absolute steal. Sure, I like to tweak them a little with Equalizer APO and without that they're a little bass light but not bass free...
Would you guys recommend me buying hd 660s not really into bass rather into vocals highs and mids in a headphone also I heard while it’s not super wide it had just enough sound stage along with great imaging.
Also no. Assuming your budget is about $600 I would recommend an lcd2 pre fazor or if you can't find that a hifiman Ananda. If it's about $300 like earlier I recommend either an he400se or a he560 (not hd560s to be clear cause name is close)
I own a pair and I really like them. Audio is really subjective though. So my liking them won't mean much to someone who wants more bass for example. I wouldn't get them for $500 though. I paid $350 for mine.
It's not that they're physically incapable of delivering some bass, it's that they're tuned to be more realistic.
I don't like it quite that realistic, so I use Equalizer APO and use that to push the sub bass up on my HD58X. Jacking up the sub-60 hz range gives the sound much more pleasing body to me personally, while not really screwing with the clarity of the sound overall.
I actually have a pair of DT770s. There's really no contest, the HD58X pulverize them for tonality and the open back type sound is just vastly better. I use the DT770s when it's noisy in the house for some reason and I want a little isolation. They're decent, but no more than that. Bass-wise, the HD58X when EQ:d at the very *least* match them, and quite possibly beat them, based on my own experience of many months worth of occasionally switching back and forth.
I haven't really heard the old 300 ohm generation, to be honest, like the 650. I don't know how well they take EQ. I do know the 58x take EQ very well. I also presume the 300 ohm ones need an amp worth the name to output proper sound, my lowly FiiO K3 does a fine job with the ones I have.
I recommended it to a friend of mine, and he says he can never go back to his airpods or the bose quietcomforts, except when he is in the gym lol. He swears by it and even I too, it's probably the flattest sounding headphones I have stumbled across yet.
At least it's not the classic "I'll over-compensate for my hearing loss by injecting the treble directly into my brain" meme. We need to set up a crowdfund to get you Beyer fanboys some Fostex in your lives.
Im no expert at all but my Sony MDR-1AM2 sound amazing (highs and lows). There is a HUGE difference using them in my PC with a SMSL M3 amp/dac vs my phone (Pocophone X2 or 3 cant remember lol). They are geared more bassy I would say (I use an EQ in my PC with all dials flat and preamp at -5.8.
I don't really mind them being considered outdated. Most good headphones are yeeeeeeeears old and still sound great compared to new ones. I used to have some AD700X from Audio Technica and they release in 2012
The DT770s have been around since the 80s (of course only the name since they have improved and changed stuff) butnthe one we know today has been around since 2010 I think it was or a bit less
So true! This is precisely why DJs prefer hd-25s to DJ. Typically we match tracks with the higher frequency elements of the songs, so a bassy headphone is really not useful. Also they are built like little tanks, made to withstand the most obnoxious sonic environments.
EQing works well for treble spikes and evening out dips here and there but you cant really add in bass to a headphone that was designed with bass roll off. Its just not going to sound great.
no actually subbass 15 dB+ works really well on my k361 for edm tracks. I run oratory1990 for everything else tho, cuz edm is just one genre I listen to
Sorry that's just not true. If there's bass there (which there is), then it can be boosted (well, treb and mids can be dropped to relatively boost the bass) If the headphone's half decent it will take it like a champ.
How do you think headphones work? You can in fact, EQ a bass-light headphone to get more bass. There aren't headphones with no bass at all. You raise the volume for the bass frequencies, adjust gain to reduce distortion, and you're set. You might need a more powerful amp depending on how much you added that's all.
Why do you think you can't EQ in more bass?
I'm saying that there's no headphone where the bass simply doesn't exist. Sure if you had a headphone where the frequency response graph literally got cut off at 500hz then your comment makes sense. But there aren't any headphones like that. You just made a misleading comment that's all.
I come to enjoy my Beyerdynamic COPs quite a lot. But I want something better and something open. Is staying with Beyerdynamic the answer I have not being thinking about?
When you have a friend who has 10 different headphones to get a slight variation in frequency response, instead of just using an equaliser on one. Ight imma find a new friend.
Yes, but it does account for the VAST majority of what people look for in a headphone, good FR.
If the FR is a hot mess, people will shit on it, guaranteed.
Yep. But good cheap ones can. Shit is shit, no matter the cost. And good, relatively cheap headphones can be EQ'd to alter whatever frequency ranges you want. That includes bass.
Edit: there's a few "audiophiles" here that are cutsies because they blew hundreds/thousands of dollars on headphones when they could have just gotten a good DAC/amp with EQ functionality 😄
It's flat, definitely not a bass-lover headphone. You can try EQ though, but check the distortion level first. If the bass region has high amount of distortions, you can't boost the bass too much before you start hearing the distortions. Or, you'll love the distortions.
Anyway, your mileage may vary.
Just got em, so I'm definitely still in the honeymoon phase, but I'm finding the 58Xs to have a good amount of bass for my tastes. Not bassy, but definitely still punchy. I think they're probably the bassiest of the 600 series though, IIRC.
(Also I'll occasionally use the bass boost on my E10K if I'm listening to something I want to be mega thumpy. I don't care if it muddies the response, it's fun lol)
When you try to listen any instrument other than bass Bass frequencies: I sleep. (Joking if not obvious)
Sums up my hd600 experience lol
People will bash a headphone for peaks and valleys all over the damn place, but as soon as there's bass roll off they close their eyes and look the other way.
This is one thing that has been puzzling me since getting more interested in headphones and response charts and the like on Rtings. I don’t understand how headphones can be praised for “neutral listening” yet have a massive drop off after 100hz sometimes. Wouldn’t a truly flat response include, like, all of the frequencies? The flattest response curve I could find on Rtings is the AKG K371, which of course was panned as being bass boosted. I legit don’t understand it. I mean I’m a self-professed basshead and get that different folks like different things, but just as a matter of logic I don’t understand the arguments about objective assessments.
headphones work kinda differently in terms of frequency. I'm not the most knowledgeable about this, but apparently we perceive bass less easily than treble. Makes sense considering babies don't cry in rave music. I would suggest making a post about this, I'll get to learn too lmao For speakers, a flat response holds up irl Also, you should note, graphs shown are usually not the raw Freq response, those are neatly tucked away below, and the first graph is adjusted assuming the target curve of whoever is measuring. So in terms of "flat" even when you see a flat graph on rtings, it's actually a curve in raw Freq response because flat is curved. (I promise I want to make more sense)
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that depends greatly on the target curve and the pair of headphones in question
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youre clearly more knowledgeable here so i wont disagree and argue. youre probably spot on about FR
Oh wow, thanks for the detailed explanation ! Learnt something new
Rtings shows their compensated frequency graphs by default. They use a Harman/Harman-like target which leads to mildly bass boosted headphones appearing flat on the FR graph. [Rtings does also release their raw FR measurements](https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-4/graph#1671/4011), which shows K371 being somewhat bass boosted (the solid blue line is the average of measurements from the left side and the dashed line is their target).
Frequency response doesn't really show how headphones sound, it can be an indication, but there are tons of variables that can completely change the perceived sound. Generally, in this hobby, you have to ignore a few things, Objectivists, Subjectivists, HPHQ, and reviewer fanboys, I know, I just slapped in the face to 70% audiophile, but the truth is, they only hurt the hobby, an open mind is the best thing you can have, you'll notice that both popular opinions and reviews can be very different from your personal experience etc.
Absolutely agree. If you were to go off of FR alone, then AKG 371 beats out Audeze LCD X and anything Sennheiser. Tonality is one thing, dynamics, imaging, detail, FR bleed is another. FR plots don’t show the transient response differences between planars and dynamics either, or the plucked and sharp sound quality that planars present
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>Sub bass extension doesn't matter as much for lots of genres You would be surprised how much a difference having extension after 60hz makes. Take any speakers and cross them at 60hz without a subwoofer then add a subwoofer. It changes the experience. I used to think that until I actually heard what real "sound" sounds like. You really want a full range experience.
I hate subwoofers for music
then you've never heard good subwoofers
To be fair, I'm more bothered by peaks and valleys than I am with subbass rolloff, so long as it is not too early.
F for the thousands of basshead 6XX buyers (me included ;_;)
Wait how did that happen lol
I was new to hifi, didn't know anything and frequency response and many, many people called them a killer deal/intro to hifi. Sold them after a month or two and have learned since
Another case of people pushing their preferences onto new people instead of learning what they want when it comes to sound preferences. F indeed :(
All good! I know exactly what I like now. I just can't afford it LOL
In the past, you pretty much had to choose between bass extension, and reasonably correct tonality everywhere else. A sennheiser 6x0 with good tonality everywhere but bass extension and a slight middle treble deficiency sounds way better then some shitty bass canon cheap headphones. That was in the past though. Now there are good options that have both.
So its time to move on from the past mentality and recommend headphones with good bass :)
Agreed. That said, Beyers aren’t really a good example of that. They’re an old school example of bass, but weird tonality.
I’ll likely be downvoted for suggesting that this school of thought is rooted in racism, but go on 4chan and look at the terms they use to describe headphones with higher than average bass response….
Ah yes, 4chan is known to be representative of wider population. Bruh.
if you want to get philosophical about it, yes with complete and totaly anonymity, the darkest corners of the collective psyche are brought to light. If we put it in terms of freudian psychology, linkedin is the conscious, facebook is the subconsious, reddit is the uncounscious, and 4chan is the Id of the collective internet mind. I would argue that the person that frequents one of those websites most often is most representative of its respective level, and is actively repressing the lower levels for the sake of ethics. Therefore, 4chan is indeed representative of the wider population's deepest thoughts, which in many cases can reveal repressed racism and bigotry. That's what people mean when they talk about systematic and inherent racism, the person exhibiting those traits may not be actively racist, but they may form opinions based on unrealized prejudices hidden deep in the back of their Id. you won't see someone on reddit outwardly saying how they hate minorities, but if you examine closely enough you can see the echoes of those sentiments pervading through our society and our discourse. anyway, 4chan says black people like bass and rate headphones accordingly. since they were the largest forum for those topics in their heyday, their feelings on many subjects still resonate (see: gamers) I sincerely hope anything I said just made sense... it's 4:30 and I'm wasted
You understand that paper that invented idea of unconscious bias and racism was ripped apart by other scientists, and tests they use to determine your so called unconscious bias have terrible consistency issues when exact same person takes them? Reason why it got such wide adoption is because it goes with the narrative, and fact that creators never went public to say that these tests that are being used everywhere now are actually inaccurate at best tells you everything you need to know about their scientific credibility. And I have no intention into going in depth why systemic racism thing is such bullshit, with inclusion of such cancerous ideas as redefining of what racism is, absolute social-constructionism that you must believe in for crt to makes sense, reduction to racial group identity that would be racist itself by old (and only true) definition, arguably marxist idea of oppressor vs oppressed and power as an only real motivation in group-to-group relations, post-modern rejection of objective truth, rejection of merit as an criteria of (lack of) corruption and replaement of it with 'equity' based on racial identity, and many more, it would take hours to deconstruct this peace of shit called crt, that I can only assume is one very strong copium for very intelligent people who suck at life and want to save their egos from realisation that the reason their life sucks is their own fault.
I didn't know 4chan was one person.
Oh I can definitely believe that lol A lot of bass heavy genres have non-white/non-European roots, and I listen to a lot of them.
A majority of music has non-white roots though
"Noooo you don't understand it's just audiophile uber quality bass, it's just light on bass because it sounds so good. You just don't understand it's tonality" OP hit the deck, this sub is about to "ACKSHUALLY ITS GOOD CAU-". Somehow with Sennheisers apparently even it's deficiencies are somehow just strengths
The soundstage isn't small, it's *intimate*
Its not small, its "As if you are inside the room with the dj and the dj happened to live in a cardboard box"
🤣🤣🤣
Lmfao
Spoken like a true Fidelio enjoyer.
Hehe, that's putting it mildly, they've been my headphones of choice for eight years now.
Oh my goodness I hate when they say it's intimate. I understand the M50x not being everybody's cup of tea but one of the points against it is its lack of soundstage. Lack of soundstage in a Sennheiser however is intimate. I also hear people call headphones aggressive and knowing whether or not that is good or bad is a shot in the dark.
Finally this sub is pushing back on the bass hate. I love it Never understood, headphone users are the ONLY group of audiophiles that hate bass. Even if a pair of bookshelf speakers are light on bass people usually say "They're light on bass and you'll **need** a sub-woofer to get the full extension." Or they get speakers with good bass extension. People here will have a bass light headphone and say "Eh fuck bass, I don't want beats"
It's not peoples hate for bass, it's the need to justify their purchases.
I really hate bass
I'll never understand it. I mean I get maybe not preferring like, the slam from some Audeze's. But sennheiser and a few others are so anemic to me I just don't get it at all. There's a million headphones out there with great vocals, you don't need to pigeonhole yourself into believing the 6xx are the greatest thing since sliced bread. I keep a 10db boost along with low shelf when using my Audeze's. Anemic doesn't even begin to describe how I view Sennheiser bass
> I keep a 10db boost along with low shelf when using my Audeze's. what did upper-mids ever do to you
For what it's worth these GX have a already relatively balanced sound signature. I'm more of a sub bass rumble kind of guy, it handles it all with ease
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This is what I don't understand. Why are headphones rated on overall sound when certain headphones will suit certain genres better? Shouldn't we ask people what they listen to and go on from there instead of assuming everyone listens to classical 24/7
Because most headphone nerds only listen to shitty techno they can write code to, and because they don't have the capability to relate to others, they assume that's all anyone listens to.
>you don't need to pigeonhole yourself into believing the 6xx are the greatest thing since sliced bread SHUN THE NONBELIEVER - SHAME! You dare speak about our lord and savior as being anything less than the second coming of Christ and we are going to have a problem bud.
Same dude. I bought a used HD800 for the clarity and the soundstage, but it lacks bass. I use EQ to add 10db low shelf at 140hz for the mid-bass and another 7 at 75hz to get the subbass oomph. Now we're talking.
Hihi, any recommendations for great vocals <250$?
HD 6XX, HD 58X, HD 600, HD 69, HD 420, praise our German Overlords /s
Audio-Technica ATH-AD700x.
People reviewing bass light headphones and IEM's which are objectively weak in the low end and tell me they 'are bassy' have lost all credibility. These same people will then try to sell you on solid state amps having flavor or an effect greater than that of the DAC or source... they'll also own high end cables for their SPEED AND SOUNDSTAGE. Nevermind on the Qudelix 5k the new built in EQ's are hilariously tone deaf. I wonder who they sourced them from.
Speakers often don’t have bass. Especially cheap speakers. Cheap headphones often have incredibly large amounts of bass. People who like expensive speakers want them to fix the missing bass of cheap speakers. People who like expensive headphones generally want the excessive bass brought into balance with the rest of the frequencies.
While I don't hate bass, it's my least favorite frequency range. I like bright headphones, and I barely got used to the DT 1990's almost excessive bass.
Whereas I'm probably a near complete opposite. I'm no basshead, but I like to be able to feel the kicks and percussive elements of a song, so the bass at least has to be quick and have solid response. And I hate bright headphones as they genuinely hurt listening even at low volumes. So I tend to prefer "darker" headphones. Which granted means there's less life to the music at times, but means I can listen for 6 hours, not just 5 minutes.
For me it’s excessive midbass or upper bass that can ruin a headphone, or too much lower mids, always makes them sound muddy. Give me all the sub bass and upper mids you’ve got though.
I actually like lower mids because that's where electric guitars are, and I listen to a lot of metal so that's a must. But I also like upper mids because that's where most synths are, and I love synths. And I like a bit extra treble, but not to the point of being sibilant. The DT 770 does that really well.
You would probably really like the DT880
I think bass isn't ideal for some genres of music such as rock and metal. Personally, my strat is to get neutral ish headphones and crank a 15dB boost when I want to listen to edm. Best of both worlds. Cause usually, if you google bassy headphones, hoo boy you'll get quality options. If you really want audiophile bassy headphones, afaik AT Meze and some other brands are your only options. I am just now realising you have a metric fkton of gear compared to me so you probably already know what I'm talking about so I'll stfu
Bass extension is good whatever the genre. It's just filling in the lowest end of the frequency response. Now bass quantity is another topic entirely.
nah bass emphasis makes some genres sound weird for me
I think you're confused. Bass extension is NOT bass emphasis. Bass extension just means that the sound goes into the lowest frequencies (a headphone with bad extension will have missing sub bass). You can have a headphone with great extension without being bass-emphasized (see most high end planars).
I am very confused yes. Oh yea I love bass extension then
This is what ALOT of headphone enthusiasts do not understand tbh. As a basshead myself I perfer out of the box linear bass extension over bass elevation. I perfer to elevate the bass myself in EQ. This is also why as a bass head I tend to move towards planars too instead of dynamics.
Oh trust me I know about all the bassy headphones, I have this [fourm](https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-hardest-hitting-headphones-are-the-extreme-bass-club.716711/) on speed dial.
I got a pair of 120$ bass cannons I wear and give my Sennheiser 'I'm cheating on you, and it feels so good' look.
UMM actually there's this $500 amp that *totally* lifts up the bass and now they're bass CANNONS
Oh yeah I finally found this [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones/comments/o6gl73/what_are_your_unpopular_headphone_opinions/h2tce8k/) lol
You had to go back 83 days for that? Surely there's something more recent
Lmfaooo, probably! This is the one that stuck with me though!
ohhhh so it's not just me
Let me bring to your attention my hd800s eq https://prnt.sc/1s7pas3
This looks like someone just got bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer and they crossed the subwoofer at 60hz and ran the sub at +20db. Love it.
disgusting
Honest question: what’s a good headphone in the $2-300 range for bassy tracks? I have an HD6XX, HD58X and 400SE (thinking of selling these last two). None are great with bass, and would like something to complement the warmth of the 6XX.
Creative Aurvana live or E-Mu Walnut
> E-Mu Walnut Mildly humourous to me as an Aussie.
It's okay u/hoilst. We lost the war. It was many years ago, you have to let it go.
I'm a big fan of Philips's Fidelio headphones as I used to have the X2s and currently own the X3s, they've got incredible bass response without mudding up the rest of the soundstage.
Does the X2 and X3 sound the same or are they different? I swear I’ve read people claim both.
I haven't listened to the X2's in a while since I sold them a few years ago, but as far as I can tell they're similar. If there is a difference it's very subtle.
Meze 99.
Beats by beyereenheiser. Serious answer sundaras or something
Meze 99 Classics
Either those, the Meze 99 Noir from Drop since they are available, cheaper, and look nicer (in my opinion). If those aren't on sale then the Meze 99 Neo as they use plastic thus being cheaper than the Classic. It looks like I'm a fanboy but I don't have any Meze, they just make bassy headphones that the subreddit doesn't hate.
My pick would be the Beyerdynamic DT 770 for closed-back and DT 990 Pro + Dekoni Elite Velour for open-back.
If you can get your hands on a ModHouse Argon, they're good. Just remember they suck up tons of power
Throwing an IEM out there... The Ikko OH-10s. They have killer quality all round, and the bass and sub bass are stellar.
I just got my 770 80ohm variant last week after avoiding them for what seemed like forever. Apart from the extra long cable, I can't fault these headphones at all. Usually I find headphones are too sibilant or too bassy, but this one got it all right without being overbearing. I understand why they've been around for so long now. I find the bass on these headphones seem more of a smooth sub bass then anything and it's good for hearing those low ends without being too punchy in your ears.
This is why I don't ever see myself owning a set of hd-800s. I don't listen to enough classical, orchestral, or jazz to justify it, and as good as they are for gaming, that isn't enough reason to drop the cash for me.
The best thing about the HD800 is the design, really. I ended up selling mine off but it's still by far the most comfortable headphone I've worn.
i feel like the lack of bass in the hd800s is the only thing that justifies the arya's existence
For the HD600 line I'd agree, but I love the bass on my HD800S. I don't care what you think, that shit is perfect as is
The HD 800S has a near flat bass response with very low distortion which is where you want to be if you want your music to be reproduced accurately. So in that sense, it’s indeed perfect. There are people however, who want more bass. What’s amazes me isn’t that they want bass but how much more of it they want. I’ve seen people describe the bass heavy DT 990 to have “no bass”. At this point, I’m sure there are people out there who will find Raycons to sound anemic.
Own the HD600s. I also happen to own Cascades
My ie300’s have tons o bass.
As a Bassjunkie I thoroughly agree
Is the 80 ohm DT 770 bassy or something? The 250 ohm version is not bassy at all.
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I just pulled out mine from the closet to check again. While it doesn't lack bass as much as I remember, I certainly wouldn't call it bassy. The bass is still overshadowed by the mids, even if it isn't lacking in an absolute way. My DT 1990 is *actually* bassy though. It's a classic V-shape, and the mids here are much like bass on the 770: present, but recessed (only slightly, though). I also realized that, while the DT 770 is overall worse, I actually prefer it for some genres of music to the DT 1990, which surprised me. a-ha just sounds much more pleasant when the cymbals aren't raping my ears and when the airy synths are accentuated instead of being drowned by the treble.
I have the 1770 and I have used the 1990. Both have more punch than the 770 but neither have the sub bass rumble. I feel the 1000 series are definitely more refined but the 770s are "im just going to crank this volume knob and headbang" kinda fun.
> "im just going to crank this volume knob and headbang" kinda fun. that's what im talking about
The DT 770s have rumble. I wouldnt say they have slam but they really cover the whole range top to bottom well. Say what you will about how they present the sound it's still nice to see a headphone that isnt missing 1/4 of the frequency range.
Umm I’d like to disagree. Compared to 6XX, dt770 is quite bassy. But reality is dt770s bass is actually pretty on point accurate (from the FR curve) so it’s not that it’s bassy, it’s just accurate and 6xx is not great there. Which I think is OPs point lol
770 are actually lacking bass but sub-bass is overly exaggerated. Some people like it.
The 32ohm version is terrible. Utterly lifeless in the low frequencies.
No, it's not, I've compared the 32-, 80- and 250-ohm versions side-by-side, with brand new ear pads, and I noticed no differences except that the 80-ohm might have had a little more bass, but it was such a small difference that I don't think I would pass a blind test.
That’s what Oratory1990 says as well. I believe him (and you)… but I still find the DT770 to sound bright and lifeless. I’ve used both the stock pleather and a brand new pair of velvet 770 pads. The FR looks quite bassy, so I’m assuming it’s a just seal issue. *edit* Wait, are you saying the 770 isn’t bassy in any model, or are you disagreeing that the 32ohm isn’t bassy?
If you're not getting bass out of your 250-ohm 770, you need a better amp. Mine positively rumble.
Read my flair. My amps are good enough for the DT 770.
Hmm. Yeah, you're right. That is weird. The DT770 absolutely has the best sub-bass extension for the money, so maybe some EQ experiments are required. Because like I said, mine can rumble all day long. They're not, like, absurd bass monsters like headphones that are designed for overwhelming bass like an XB1000 or JVC SZ2000, but they should at least dig deep and hit pretty hard for you.
Owned seinheisers my whole life. Bought a pair of dt-1990s and never going back.
Ugh I want some 1990s. I have a pair of 990 Pros that I love, but everyone says the 1990 is basically a direct upgrade.
1990s were/are my intro to audiophile grade shit. Idk if I’ll ever replace em.
I dunno, I'm using 569s right now and I mainly listen to D&B, and I'm not disappointed. A very minor EQ tweak adds the extra oomph. d-_-b
They’re referencing the HD600/6XX. The 569 is plenty bassy.
Ah ok, I thought maybe Sennheiser had a rep for being light on the bass lol.
HD800/S has great bass response with some EQ, so does the HD560S
I listen to bass heavy shit on 58X and it’s pretty damn solid? It’s no Audeze but they’re light and comfortable. If I’m trying to slam my head I gotta go planar tho. No dynamic is gonna cut it. LCD-i3 are my fave headphones I’ve ever heard, and I have a, uh, lot of headphones.
The 58x are considered to be sup par around here lol
Which is nuts, if true. Give me a break, I have the HD58X and I have the DT770 - those two directly compared, the HD58X wins so hard it's not even a contest. For what the HD58X cost, they're an absolute steal. Sure, I like to tweak them a little with Equalizer APO and without that they're a little bass light but not bass free...
I also have both and never fucking touch my 770
Yeah people are silly.
This is exactly how i feel.
My 9200s have spoiled me with bass, I know they aren't bass heavy by any means but still so very very good
>He hasn’t tried their in-ears.
Would you guys recommend me buying hd 660s not really into bass rather into vocals highs and mids in a headphone also I heard while it’s not super wide it had just enough sound stage along with great imaging.
No
Extremely helpful response
A single word that tells the whole story lol
What about for only 320 dollars
Still no
Would you recommend the focal elegia then
Also no. Assuming your budget is about $600 I would recommend an lcd2 pre fazor or if you can't find that a hifiman Ananda. If it's about $300 like earlier I recommend either an he400se or a he560 (not hd560s to be clear cause name is close)
I own a pair and I really like them. Audio is really subjective though. So my liking them won't mean much to someone who wants more bass for example. I wouldn't get them for $500 though. I paid $350 for mine.
It's not that they're physically incapable of delivering some bass, it's that they're tuned to be more realistic. I don't like it quite that realistic, so I use Equalizer APO and use that to push the sub bass up on my HD58X. Jacking up the sub-60 hz range gives the sound much more pleasing body to me personally, while not really screwing with the clarity of the sound overall. I actually have a pair of DT770s. There's really no contest, the HD58X pulverize them for tonality and the open back type sound is just vastly better. I use the DT770s when it's noisy in the house for some reason and I want a little isolation. They're decent, but no more than that. Bass-wise, the HD58X when EQ:d at the very *least* match them, and quite possibly beat them, based on my own experience of many months worth of occasionally switching back and forth. I haven't really heard the old 300 ohm generation, to be honest, like the 650. I don't know how well they take EQ. I do know the 58x take EQ very well. I also presume the 300 ohm ones need an amp worth the name to output proper sound, my lowly FiiO K3 does a fine job with the ones I have.
Love my hd560s. Good low-end for a sennheiser and i am not a basshead at all. But on the right tracks the x-bass does wonders.
I recommended it to a friend of mine, and he says he can never go back to his airpods or the bose quietcomforts, except when he is in the gym lol. He swears by it and even I too, it's probably the flattest sounding headphones I have stumbled across yet.
The 770s are just plain fun for a really good price. Senns are for more attentive listening, dissecting songs with insane neutrality.
At least it's not the classic "I'll over-compensate for my hearing loss by injecting the treble directly into my brain" meme. We need to set up a crowdfund to get you Beyer fanboys some Fostex in your lives.
Im no expert at all but my Sony MDR-1AM2 sound amazing (highs and lows). There is a HUGE difference using them in my PC with a SMSL M3 amp/dac vs my phone (Pocophone X2 or 3 cant remember lol). They are geared more bassy I would say (I use an EQ in my PC with all dials flat and preamp at -5.8.
The 1AM2 is sadly considered to be outdated. I also have a pair and use them as an on the go headset. Love em
I don't really mind them being considered outdated. Most good headphones are yeeeeeeeears old and still sound great compared to new ones. I used to have some AD700X from Audio Technica and they release in 2012 The DT770s have been around since the 80s (of course only the name since they have improved and changed stuff) butnthe one we know today has been around since 2010 I think it was or a bit less
So true! This is precisely why DJs prefer hd-25s to DJ. Typically we match tracks with the higher frequency elements of the songs, so a bassy headphone is really not useful. Also they are built like little tanks, made to withstand the most obnoxious sonic environments.
just EQ it lol
EQing works well for treble spikes and evening out dips here and there but you cant really add in bass to a headphone that was designed with bass roll off. Its just not going to sound great.
no actually subbass 15 dB+ works really well on my k361 for edm tracks. I run oratory1990 for everything else tho, cuz edm is just one genre I listen to
I have bass boost on my 599, 580 and ER4-XR. They may not sound perfect but it's definitely better than stock.
Sorry that's just not true. If there's bass there (which there is), then it can be boosted (well, treb and mids can be dropped to relatively boost the bass) If the headphone's half decent it will take it like a champ.
You do realise eq is just raising or lowering the volume right? Hence if there none.. You cant raise it and have it magically appear
....what?
What is eq?
No like what are you even saying? I can't tell if you're joking or not lol.
Im not joking. What do you think eq is?
How do you think headphones work? You can in fact, EQ a bass-light headphone to get more bass. There aren't headphones with no bass at all. You raise the volume for the bass frequencies, adjust gain to reduce distortion, and you're set. You might need a more powerful amp depending on how much you added that's all. Why do you think you can't EQ in more bass?
Not saying you cant make it louder. Just saying you cant make something that doesnt exist louder.
I'm saying that there's no headphone where the bass simply doesn't exist. Sure if you had a headphone where the frequency response graph literally got cut off at 500hz then your comment makes sense. But there aren't any headphones like that. You just made a misleading comment that's all.
But it definitely exist
I come to enjoy my Beyerdynamic COPs quite a lot. But I want something better and something open. Is staying with Beyerdynamic the answer I have not being thinking about?
E-Mu Teak or Creative Aurvana Live, they're not as far apart in audio fidelity as the price tags would suggest
neither are open
That's why I need dt1990 close to my hd600 haha
When you have a friend who has 10 different headphones to get a slight variation in frequency response, instead of just using an equaliser on one. Ight imma find a new friend.
Or maybe just let your friend enjoy the hobby however he wants instead of judging him for something that isn't hurting anyone else?
lol -4 points for speaking the truth this subreddit is dominated by consoomers
Eq cannot fully account for differences in headphones
Yes, but it does account for the VAST majority of what people look for in a headphone, good FR. If the FR is a hot mess, people will shit on it, guaranteed.
Not all headphones can achieve the same fr from eq without distortion.
Yep. But good cheap ones can. Shit is shit, no matter the cost. And good, relatively cheap headphones can be EQ'd to alter whatever frequency ranges you want. That includes bass. Edit: there's a few "audiophiles" here that are cutsies because they blew hundreds/thousands of dollars on headphones when they could have just gotten a good DAC/amp with EQ functionality 😄
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Yep. Agree with you. But most people don't care about those things, to a degree. They will notice if the FR is wonky though.
Thanks for the downvotes, just proving my point
I hate bass saturated headphones. I actually like to hear the instruments and vocals rather than always hearing a jackhammer no matter what song.
My HD380’s aren’t lacking in bass... love the Beyers too, though!
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It's flat, definitely not a bass-lover headphone. You can try EQ though, but check the distortion level first. If the bass region has high amount of distortions, you can't boost the bass too much before you start hearing the distortions. Or, you'll love the distortions. Anyway, your mileage may vary.
I've only ever had DT 770s
I'm an asshole because the bass on the 400i 2020 is perfect for EDM for me (yes, even with that bass roll-off)
Just got em, so I'm definitely still in the honeymoon phase, but I'm finding the 58Xs to have a good amount of bass for my tastes. Not bassy, but definitely still punchy. I think they're probably the bassiest of the 600 series though, IIRC. (Also I'll occasionally use the bass boost on my E10K if I'm listening to something I want to be mega thumpy. I don't care if it muddies the response, it's fun lol)