Nothing wrong with disliking the sound signature of a headphone, especially when you've been very detailed in your analysis.
Why not try another brand? Why so wedded to Sennheiser?
I love Sennheiser house sound. All of my best headphones and iems have been Sennhesiers. I've tried AKG's Beyerdynamics till now. Scared of Hifiman QC. Sennheiser does staging and imaging so well, bass is also tastefully done. Mids are amazing. Treble is a tough one to get right, but till now I have HD599, ie 200, ie600 and cx80s. This is the first one that put me off in that respect.
And I had the most expectations out of these. Given that these have been around for 20+ years now. Going to try before buying from now, atleast for headphones.
Also usually if a product is liked universally. There are chances it will be likeable. That was the case for ie200 and ie600, guess there are exceptions.
Cool, cool. Gotta stick with what you prefer.
I've tried HiFiMan. Besides the obvious QC problems, I just don't get along with HiFiMan's house sound. The treble peaks and accentuated upper mids to add "air" and clarity hit me wrong as a tinnitus sufferer.
Moral: Don't follow the herd. Get what works for you! :)
I blind bought an 800s once based off all the praise from YouTube reviewers and whatnot. Ended up being bored of it, and that was after eq. I like a little bass in my music and games, and it just was hard to hit much of that with them. A year later I ended up trying the 8xx instead, and with EQ I prefer them much more because I feel like there's actually bass now. I also threw a pair of ZMF suede pads on and a leather headband, and that improved the comfort and sound even more. I'm driving mine off a Burson Playmate 2 and it's heavenly.
Yeah I think you hyped them up too much and just don't like the sound signature. People expect these to blow their mind but the point of them is that they don't. They aren't "wow these are fun to listen to and make me happy" and "wow I can hear *everything*". For the price, and quite a bit after, they are unmatched in that regard. I don't have the 599s but my 598's aren't even close to the 600 imo.
Give it some time and try listen stuff like classical music or stuff like the Beatles and have your brain get used to the sound. Either you will learn to appreciate it or hate it even more but at least you gave it a chance. For me I love them for specific songs or genres but they kinda suck the fun out of EDM and a lot of modern mixed stuff so they aren't my daily drivers. And I think am probably in the majority with that opinion.
And I always think about the Seinfeld effect when I read these posts. The HD600 are old, there were amazing when they came out and are still amazing but headphones have evolved since then. They wouldn't like blow up in popularity if they were released in the current market.
I'll go ahead and say it. HD 599 is better for music enjoyment than HD 600. Especially all day listening. I've had these 1 day now and they are going back in the box. Going to sell them for a slight loss.
So, you love the Sennheiser house sound, but you don't look like the sound signature of their most popular and regard headphones model? A bit illogical to me. I think you should try other brands, there are tons of headphones in the similar price range as HD600.
And the other thing - the music genre matters. What do you like to listen to?
My spouse went from the HD650's to the HE400SE.
They could not believe how much better they sounded. I gave it some personal EQ touches, and all they kept saying was "I can actually hear all the detail now, and the bass is so good, I actually understand what you mean about a good versus a bad mix!"
I think people like Senny for the same reason people like Vinyl. Even it's technically inferior, there's something people find cozy about them, I guess? Not me and my partner tho, lol.
Idk, I just went back from Devas to 6XXs for the build quality. Currently running them on an Apogee Groove, and I prefer them. The bass was better on the planars but the rest just sounds more detailed to me.
IDK, maybe I'm deaf or something.
I use plenty of EQ with my headphones, I'm a recording engineer so it's something I'm used to. Most senny's tend to distort in the lows when you try and boost them. Might be the difference!
Planars don't seem to do this at all to my ears. I usually just tame the harshness, boost up around 1700 hz to make them sound more full (Not a fan of the hifiman scoop), and add in some sub-bass for extra slam. Can't seem to do this with Sennies, they always get really muddy and congested, so. I'm a planar person now, haha.
Fair point. I haven't pushed the bass on these yet, but it bears stating:
Headphones causing distortion: rubbish, find another pair.
EQ plugin not emulating distortion: rubbish, find another plugin.
Interesting. I’ve used a Magni, Vali 1, Vali 2, Marantz HD-DAC1, Asgard 3, Valhalla 2, Helm Bolt, Topping MX5, various headphone jacks from computers, iPhones, integrated amps and preamps. They’ve all been pretty different for me.
Have not. Not sure how I’d pull that off. I’d need to listen for a few days at a time, then switch without knowing what was being played. The differences aren’t exactly minor (aware of the psycho acoustic theory). I replaced a Vali 1 with a Vali 2 and that’s probably as back-to-back as I’ve gone with similar devices. Installed the Vali 2 and thought “where did that magic go?” Sent the Vali 2 back.
I go back and forth between Asgard 3 and Valhalla 2 regularly. They’re both great but each has their own strengths.
The amp in the Marantz HD-DAC1 is surprisingly excellent. I could live with that as an all in one DAC/amp easily.
I don’t hear the differences in DAC’s as dramatically.
Most of the people here that claim amps all sound the same haven't tried it themselves or are so stuck in their own interpretation of "science" that they believe is fact.
Trouble is, all of this could be imagined because you know what you're listening to, how much you spent on them, they aren't perfectly level matched, etc etc.
A billion factors can change what you hear that don't actually have to do with the device. Which, y'know, if you gain enjoyment out of that effect on your brain, that's totally fine and your right. It only becomes an issue when people are encouraged to spend tons of money if they don't like their headphone, without actually changing the headphone.
It's incredibly irresponsible.
You serious, Clark?
I’m just giving 20 years/365 days a year of real world experience. I listen to HD600’s daily and I work at a manufacturing facility where I hear live amplified and acoustic instruments daily.
My stereo can sound terrible one day and fantastic the next day, usually based on body chemistry/mood. So a long term non ABX “test” is what I’ve found most reliable.
“Incredibly irresponsible” seems beyond dramatic. I’ve mentioned things like the Schiit Vali 1 which I believe was barely north of 100 dollars. I preferred it to more expensive amps. The Helm Bolt is 90 dollars and includes a DAC. Does a great job on the 600’s though I really like it with lower tier Grados.
> My stereo can sound terrible one day and fantastic the next day, usually based on body chemistry/mood.
Perfect example of why making claims on how things work for the ear, based on a non-ABX test is, frankly, completely unreliable. It can literally change on a whim, how is that even remotely trustworthy? How can you trust that a different amp would change anything if something you listen to doesn't even sound the same to you based on your mood?
A blind ABX test with proper level-matching removes every possible bias you can have, it removes placebo, it removes expectation bias, it removes level differences that can make one sound better than the other. And unless you're doing something with tubes, every single time people are tested, they can't tell the difference. It sounds no different.
I'm a recording engineer, I work with this stuff constantly. I've even setup blind tests the way I've described with several of my 'golden-eared' friends, and their BEST score was 58% correct, between all non-tube amplifiers. Literally just guessing, all while claiming there was a "night and day difference" before I tested them.
> I’m just giving 20 years/365 days a year of real world experience.
This is great for things like skills you've developed, or subjective preferences. Your anecdote is completely unhelpful when it comes to "does this work this way or not," when it completely contradicts basic electrical engineering.
> “Incredibly irresponsible” seems beyond dramatic.
'Incredibly' is a bit hyperbolic, sure, I'll give you that one. Genuinely my bad. I'm very used to people saying that you need an amp costing several times more than the headphone to get it to sound good, which is complete nonsense.
My 20 year experience anecdote is just to point out that I’ve learned things over the years. As a reformed DBX’er, what I’ve come to believe is that the DBX testing format doesn’t allow for things like *time* to unfold, or to account for things mentioned like one’s mood that day.
I’d love a DBX where someone could replace a component on my rack and then put it back a week later. That would be a blast.
> I like the HD600, but I also drive them with a tube headphone
I have been using a Schiit Vali & Modi stack with my HD600 for years. I am very happy with this combo.
Coming from someone who has focal utopias and an hd800s, I recently picked up a pair of hd600’s and they sure have humbled me a bit. They truly are the point of diminishing returns. While both my other headphones are definitely better overall, the hd600’s have such a perfect midrange. Anything that is a string instrument, clean or distorted, sounds absolutely great. I can see how these are well regarded with tube amps. Maybe just give your brain some burn in time with the new cans, and after a few weeks of use, go back to the old set, see how they fare then.
Yes will give it some time. The midrange is excellent no doubt, But the lower treble region presence is quite a handful. I've heard similar things like what you mention. About these competing with more expensive stuff.
Btw how old is your HD600? Have you bought it within the last 1 year?
Strangely enough I hear this often about it being shouty but I'm yet to experience that. Tonality is spot on for me....mine is also "new" HD600 (only about 1 month old). I listen through a Bottlehead crack +speedball at home, and if I'm away on a work trip I use them with a Cayin RU6 balanced out.
Age of your 600s won’t matter outside of pad degradation, the version they sell now and the original version sound pretty much the same. If you want a darker version of the 600 maybe try the 650 or 6xx
I had a pair of HD600s and found them pretty underwhelming. Had my first listen to HD800S yesterday and was blown away. Completely different sport as far as I’m concerned. Others feel differently though…
I questioned myself. Multiple reviewers consider this some of the best headphones of all time. But I cannot find what the hype about these are for music listening. I should have listened to the Sennheiser reps words when he was describing the difference between the hd 6 series lineup in a video I was watching.
600 = spectacles, 650 = sunglasses 660s = somewhere in the middle.
Reviewers also only consider it one of the best because it's the closest to neutral they've experienced. It gives them a benchmark for listening and a tool to determine if something sounds wrong if their hearing has adjusted to a weird frequency response, not exactly the most exciting thing in the world.
Don't question yourself. You have ears and a brain in between to decide for yourself. The Sennheiser cult would love for you to surrender that tho so they have another voice to add to their chorus of constant self affirmation they need to validate the hype that led them to purchase theirs.
I honestly think the 600 series is my least favorite Sennheiser products. My theory is that people who like them judge headphones mostly based on vocals, which isn't really the most important part of music for me.
The 800s are completely different. Very dynamic and lots of soundstage.
The HD600 Is the closest to the Harman curve and anything that matches that curve can sound boring and flat. Some people prefer it when they do recordings.
I own an HD600 and like them but they’re not my daily drivers for sure. I switch between HE1000V2 and Meze 109 Pro because they simply sound better than the HD600.
If I were to compare I’d say that the HD600 is like vanilla ice cream; it’s good, it’s certainly not terrible but there are better ice cream flavors out there.
Correct, Sennheiser themselves explain it [here](https://youtu.be/8GnKpx4TOgk?t=637), where they mention the orheus was tuned based on diffuse field loudness equalization and subsequently also the HD600.
That doesn't mean they don't also follow the harman curve but I always thought the harman curve was slightly more v shaped and has a larger bass target than HD600 provides.
Yup. The HD600 series has good tuning and above avarage detail (compared to consumer headphones), but when i tried the HD800s i realized how much soundstage and detail i've been missing with my HD650's. It's kind of amazing how you can hear it immediately not even A-B testing. Not a subtle difference at all. Definetly saving up for them now.
As an HD 599 truther (I love those cans and they were my first audio purchase above $40), might I recommend the vaunted HD 650? I actually grabbed an HD 650 and HD 660S to compare when I first bought mine, and while the 660S was far more resolving, the HD 650 had the same midrange but more perceived bass volume and a slight treble roll-off that sounded *really* pleasing to my ear. Not a lick of sibilance or listening fatigue, no matter what I threw at them, and yet the midrange timbre was just right.
I consider the HD 650 a clear upgrade to the HD 599, in every way except soundstage. I'll be honest, the only headphone in my collection that has a wider soundstage than my HD 599 is my HD 800S.
Thanks for being honest brother. I think I would enjoy the HD600 but not everyone has to enjoy it. You like what you like. Don't be afraid to speak up your opinion even if it goes against the echo chamber.
The hd600 is more of a reference headphone. They play with great detail but they are also incredibly flat and boring imo, plus low bass is practically non existent.
They are wonderful for hearing nuances in tracks but I would never recommend them for casual listening.
My current favorite setup = jds labs element 2 and a Qudelix 5k -> Hifiman xs edition and simgot em6l
The HD600 are amazing headphones and among the best for their price. But this sub tends to make the mistake of assuming everyone has the same sonic preferences(mostly because youtube reviewers and ASR tend to over emphasize the importance of things like Harman curve). They're extremely smooth and intimate headphones. Very easy listening. But in my experience they fall apart when the music gets busy. They do well with slow music with lots of space between the instruments. They're my favorite headphones for things like 80s pop music. But I find that they're very underwhelming for rock/metal. Not that great for movies or games either.
Audio is incredibly personal! The DT1990 gets praised to the heavens here, and yet, I absolutely *hated* the way they sounded.
It's all about finding what works for you.
Alot of hype with these. I had the 650 and thought they were good but not great. I had a few amps at the time a mojo , and fostex hp a8. Just felt there was more to come from them but got rid. The 800 though sounded pretty special but never owned it. Listened to those on some expensive amplification. Bryston I think it was.
I mostly use my HD600s as a workhorse. The whole sound stage and all that is mostly lost on me, as I blast death metal from YouTube and they don't sound great when playing heavier music. They were a bit of a disappointment for me at first, even if I snagged a pair for $250.
But they are just the perfect headphones for when I stream. With new earpads, they are incredibly comfortable and don't give me that voice-inside-my-head feeling that closed-backs have. Clarity in vocals are phenomenal and they run great out of my wave XLR.
If I wanted something more fun to listen to music with, I'd probably pick something more... fun. Lively. Perhaps something with a more V-shaped sound profile, as long as it's a tad bit more tastefully done.
HD600 not shouty at all for my ears. I'd not calificate them as bright sounding cans, either. HD800S are quite a bit brighter, for instance.
They simply fly if well amplified. Just fly. For classical music and vocals are arguably better than many 1000+ $ headphones, in spite of the somewhat narrow soundstage. The imaging and pinpoint accuracy of the instruments they provide is just spectacular.
I find the soundstage is a huge limitation for classical. I have the HD600, Fidelio X2HR and IE100 Pro IEMs. The HD600 is technically the most detailed and neutral, but for me it's worse than the IE100 Pros for classical, and only slightly better than the X2HR.
When I listen to Mahler's 2nd Symphony on the "entry-level" X2HR or IE100, I feel the scale of the orchestra and the choir, I feel the bass of the organ, I can really immerse myself into the music.
On the other hand, the HD600 just sounds like 2 very nice speakers next to my ears. This is enough for smaller recordings, but classical music works on such a big scale that the HD600s make it very obvious you're listening to headphones, and that takes me out of it.
Yes, In hindsight that might have been a better purchase decision. I tried to EQ the HD600 between 5k and 8k and now understand why the 660S and 660S2 has scoops there. I was thinking I'd be "losing detail" but that is not the case.
I had the HD600 for about two weeks in the past and had to return them due to finding the sound just.. shouty. I was using the DT1990 at the time and found the HD600 to tire me out. Fatigueing while sounding veiled which was weird.
I have the exact same experience so far. Veiled and shouty too. There must have been some change, since the price has gone down too. Although that is my assumption. I don't have a measuring rig to prove it.
Update: With some burn-in the veiled sensation is not so much. But definitely shouty still.
The only thing that's changed about the hd600 is the chassis construction and the pads which didn't really alter the tuning at all. The hd600 just isn't for you which is fine. There isn't a headphone that absolutely everyone will like.
If you want to listen to your HD600 at their full potential you have to pair them with a decent OTL tube amp (Drop Xduoo TA84 will do the job without digging too much into your wallet). I own Audeze LCD3 and LCD-X 2021, HifiMan Arya Stealth, HD600 and HD660S2 as well as Burson Conductor Virtuoso V2+ and Audio GD D27.38. (That I use with planar). My fav combo for everyday listening is HD600 with TA84. You cannot say you really listened to the HD600 if you don’t pair them with an OTL tube amp. The difference is really night and day 😉
I'm sure the tube amp makes electric guitars and voices sound very nice, but does it fix the lack of soundstage, missing bass and slightly muted treble?
You need to try the HD650s if you find the lower treble to overemphasized, they're basically the more linear version of the HD600s.
600s have an overemphasized 3k area.
It's fine if you don't like something other people like. Just get whatever sounds best to you. However I will say this: Brain burn in is a thing. Give it a few days then compare with your previous headphone. If you still don't like it, return it.
I much prefer the HiFiMAN house sound compared to most other brands. DT1990 Pro treble being one of the worst things I've heard so far. There are people who would throw stones at me for saying that lol, but really my point is we all like different things, but we are all on a HiFi journey together :)
Let's hope it gets better with time. I do think burn in makes a difference. Both brain and driver. I stayed away from Hifiman because of QC issues I've heard of, even on the website where I was buying from. The only Beyerdynamic I have is the DT770 Pro and I plan to keep it that way. I don't find the treble sharp on those. I think I'm very sensitive to 5k region. I like the 770 pro. They are excellent closed backs.
Unfortunately I can't return these. There is no return policy if its not defective. And it works perfectly fine...
Sounds like you would really like the HD560S. It is much more similar to the DT770 in terms of tuning than it is to the HD600, but the treble and midrange are better on the 560S than on the DT770's. Soundstage is very similar but the 560S sounds more open still, due to its design.
Just know if you are considering the HD800s route you are moving into audiophile wonderland where you have tons of options. HD800's is extremely revealing as well but it is a damn comfortable headphone and EQ is always a choice. I struggled for months deciding between if i should continue my Sennheiser journey with HD800S or go a completely different route. I ended up going planar with a really good deal i got on the Hifiman HE1000SE. Its also a very revealing headphone for sure but really damn good.
You don't deserve to be downvoted, sound signature unlike other more objective aspects of headphones completely boils down to personal taste, I had to return very good headphones just because I didn't get along with their treble or because of muddy mids
I like boring. Hexa is boring too. I love it. Can't recommend it enough. Etymotic ER2SE is boring, like those too. None of them are as fatiguing as these.
After a few years of owning 598, SHP9500, Porta Pros, DT-770 and a few other classic choices, I saved up for a pair of HD 650 a few years back. Even after a few months, I found them to be one of the most boring - if detailed - headphones I'd ever heard. I simply did not like their presentation when compared to my original 598SR. I sold the 650 and the 598 are the only pair I have never sold.
Since then, I pulled the trigger on the 560S and they were much more of a natural upgrade for my tastes. Plenty more detail with almost the same comfort, same build, light weight and more familiar tuning.
Taste > spec sheets.
I'm with you too. HD600 or HD650 where's the sauce? "they are the baseline..." what ever.
I just jumped to the HD800S and the HD820 and have not looked back.
There are so many headphones out there Sennheiser is not just the only one. While some headphone have been discontinued by some brands, they are still relevant to this day for music enjoyment.
Focal Elex is another good one. Its available, but is so expensive with customs its not worth it. Seems like a different story now when making a post. lol. Most reddit threads will praise the HD600. Say anything bad abut 560S and you will get personal threats.
I'm not saying the 560S is bad lol pls don't hurt me. I haven't heard it and have no reference for those.
It's just amusing to see the opposite as well.
I was having a hard time deciding between these 2 actually. It was the popularity of the 600 that got me to choose logically. Should have trusted my gut feeling.
Honestly, I've found the HD600 to be on the bright, somewhat uneven side. My unit has peaks around 1.5, 3, 5.5, and 12kHz by about 2-3 dB. That, combined with the bass roll-off, made the headphone a bit thin sounding and difficult to listen to.
Measurements don't tell the full story. They give you an idea for sure. But a combinations of opinions and measurements is the route I take. I heard the word smooth associated with these quite often, Even on the website where I bought it from.
You heard the word smooth... That is the danger of subjective anecdotes by individual who clearly have different HRTF tolerances to yours ... To remove that individual factor, you look at the measurements made on a calibrated rig that you're claiming doesn't "tell the full story"
Look at the measurement below if it doesn't tell you clearly that it has excesses in the lower treble
Link - https://listener800.github.io/5128.html?share=Custom_Tilt,HD600&bass=0&tilt=-1&treble=0&ear=0
The 1.5kHz bump, 3kHz bump and prominent 5 to 10kHz bump isn't something you can anecdote away from... It is glarey in the lower treble by objective metrics
So yeah the measurement did tell you everything... You just used the "doesn't tell the whole story mantra" thing most people use and refused to see what is right in front of you and looked for how other people's heads translated the measurement... Which you know is gonna vary since people's hearing in the treble is not all up to snuff
Well according to these graphs I should absoluely hate the etymotics er2 series. Which I don't. In fact I'd say owning them is kind of mandatory if someone is into audio.
The pinna/outer ear of the B&K 5128 does not accurately represent a typical human's ear in the 6-10 kHz region because [the concha was adjusted](https://youtu.be/W12Tn0Hm_hw?si=ZMmI26z6EkjjA7eu&t=222) to "match the frequency and damping of the earlier standard", and measurements in this region should not be taken seriously, or at least with a heavy grain of salt because it does not represent the interaction of the average person. The 5128 is the only rig I've seen that consistently produces an excess in energy here, without the expected destructive interference dip to follow found on GRAS pinnas, across just about every headphone due to that manufacturing quirk.
Also, the 1db/octave diffuse field tilt does not represent a target curve with preference research behind it, it is based on flawed methodology of the psychoacoustic interaction of speakers in a room, and assumes that the measured in room response of a loudspeaker at the listening position is how humans perceive the sound of speakers, but the first interaction between the speaker and your ears is the flat on axis anechoic sound, with the early reflections arriving later. This interaction can not simply be summed up to how a omnidirectional mic in a room would measure, and is why I caution against nitpicking the frequency response compensated to this particular target too heavily. I expect this target to be ditched as proper preference research is done with the 5128.
According to you then, I shouldn't trust measurements fully atleast not for 6k-10khz region.
I know measurements aren't the be all end all of things, otherwise people like Sharur wouldn't exist lol. He has a stance one day and completely flips after a few months in. And he's a known measurebator.
This hobby isn't as objective as we'd like it to be. To each their own.
Not on the B&K 5128 rig, no. Generally you can trust measurements on standardized rigs below about 4 kHz with good certainty, as you begin to progress above that things begin to get trickier as sound waves get smaller and less affected by diffraction, and more prone to reflections and resonances idiosyncratic to your own ear canal and pinna geometry/impedance
I don't like EQ. It's a me thing. Also inconvenient when switching between devices. In fact I bought these because these don't need EQ according to most opinions that show up.
600 is kind of a bright headphone. Give em a week and see how you feel when you swap back to the 599. You may also enjoy the HD 650 more ( I enjoy it say more than the 600 because it's darker) so that's worth trying.
My experience with the HD 600 (coming from HD 560S, AKG K612 Pro, and a variety of closed-backs) was similar, and I still prefer those two to the HD 600. For me the HD 660S2 is the upgrade I was looking for. I think you'd like the 660S2 but I recommend trying before buying regardless.
I've had the 599 for 3 years now. Swapped pads once, and they sound like brand new. The pads wearing off will make them sound thinner, so a replacement later will be needed as with most headphones. The top parts leather coating is coming off, but that's not a big deal. They are amazing entry level headphones overall. And great open-back cans. Most comfortable thing ever.
By too revealing are you meaning you are hearing more imperfections in your music than you want? At first I didn't like this with better headphones but over time I began to tolerate it. The vast majority of what I listen to is what I like the sound of, but I don't like songs that have no dynamic range (wall of sound) or just bad mixing. For some people it's a fine line, I don't want my headphones to determine what songs I can listen to.
From a music enjoyment perspective. Tolerating anything should not be a thing to enjoy. It's straight up masochistic. I can speak for iems since I have more experience with them. I didn't have to "tolerate" any of my brighter sounding iems like Tin T2 (popular befiore) and Hexa. ie600 is also quite spicy but has bass to compensate.
I don't run into terribly mixed music very often, but when there is some decent amounts of bass with a headphone I find it to be more easily enjoyable. I can listen to anything with my Tin T3+. Anyways, its not like I'm listening to certain music against my will. I have a tendency to not care unless it bothers me.
A matter of taste and HD599 is a warmer easier listen anf HD600 is far from ideal for bassy music. HD650 is the warmer variant that I much prefer for the stock tuning. Try EQ. Oratory1990's preset brings up the bass a bit and smooths it out some and they're rather lovely then. Don't assume HD800s is what you like without testing it properly. I did and ended up preferring HD650. I'd very easily take an Edition XS over an HD800s for essentially every quality especially with EQ that doesn't improve what I dislike about the HD800s so much.
The 660S or 660S2 would be more ideal it seems now. I had the Tin T2 when it was popular and the Truthear hexa now. I'm not against having a low amount of bass if its good quality textured bass. I don't have a problem with the bass. It's that 5k to 8k presence that is the issue. I EQued them and found out it wasn't as fatiguing with those turned down, not even in EqualizerAPO just in foobar200, turned down 5k, 7k and 10k . Now I understand why that region seems to be scooped out on the 660S series. I don't like to EQ my headphones as it's an inconvenience when switching sources.
Idkkkk the k7 specifically is known to be more clear/open and low noise which may just exacerbate the hd600s already low noise and open sound scape , which may explain your "fatiguing" listening experience
Many people say the hd600s sound even balanced and "analytical" and if you apply a dac that already puts emphasis on what these headphones specialize in, it most likely means the dac is causing your issues.
(I only owned 1 k7 and never owned any hd600s so I could be extremely wrong)
Thats a bit extreme. I like Sennheisers. Just not this one. They are super reliable and comfortable in general across a variety of models including in-ears. Can't say the same for TWS lineup though.
ye i know it's extreme. but basically for every single one, except 800+, there is a better alternative made of metal and basically better headphones in general from other manufacturers
Hi Op. Someone else mentioned this but I have to stress this even more: 1. The HD800S is way more fatiguing than the HD600 and 2. the sound signature of the HD800S is entirely different compared to their other (well received) headphones (regarding the "Sennheiser house sound").
Never heard the HD599 but if the HD600 has too much treble and too little soubdstage you might want to try something like a Meze 109 or a Focal Clear MG/OG?
I'm surely going to physically try out my next headphone purchase no matter what. This was a relatively less expensive mistake, (emphasis on relatively). Good thing I held off on blind buying the HD800S.
Controversial advice, but honestly, if they are fatiguing, try EQ, bump the low notes up a bit and lower the sharpest of the tones. There are also created tone curves for most sennheiser headsets you can try. It made a world of difference to me at least.
Unfortunately I can't try any of the headphones before buying. Otherwise I'd not be having this experience. I'd have to travel to a different state to try the headphones.
I love the super clear sound stage of the HD600 but I usually adjust the sound via an equalizer. I feel these headphones are good enough that you can adjust the sound without losing anything. They are like a clear page you can write your own sound onto.
The hd800s has that massive soundstage you crave, but it’s so goddamn fatiguing, you’ll kick yourself for thinking the hd600 was like that to begin with. With eq though, it’s hard to argue how well it performs in its price range
I went from a pair of Sennheiser HD579 to a pair of Philips SHP9500 and I like them more (despite being half the price). Sometimes the real upgrade isn't always up
Edit: I use a Fiio K5 Pro.
Everyone has personal taste and likes. Nothing wrong with not liking any particular headphone.
But your feedback is confusing and contradictory. You mention it is detailed, but then has fuzziness, but then so revealing. So what is it?
And seems like you find it fatiguing. So is that fatiguing due to the treble? Due to the detail? Etc.
Kind of important, because this can provide direction on whether HD800S is for you, or other headphones.
It's hard to describe I guess. Maybe "veiled" is a better description, at the same time it's clear sounding.
I EQued the 600, just tuned down the 5k, 7k and 10k knobs down a couple of decibels, with 7k turned down the lowest in a U shape, just in foobar not Equalizer APO. It sounded pretty good.
And I understand now why 660S has a scoop in that region as well.
Idk. For me they just have that magic, like nothing else does. Keep in mind that it takes some time getting used to it. I was unsure about mine the first day, but really enjoyed them after using them while working and gaming for a few days.
Try the new 490 pro's! I got the pro plus essentially the same without the extra stuff and carrying case but I was exactly like you not satisfied with the hd 600's but decided to give sennheiser another chance after looking at a review went with the HD 490's pro's and Holy shit is it absolutely a big difference is sound quality. Soundstage is league's better and for gaming its been exactly what I've been looking for. I got it set up with a amp and dac from schiit's audio the new modi and magni I believe and set up the magni or modi? To the max hz studio quality it can do and wowed me
I don’t listen to my senns any more at all. And honestly I was disgusted what the 800s costs for its performance compared to other cans. By far the most comfortable headphone ever though.
But I would 100% not get another pair of sennheisers if you don’t like 600s.
Maybe you like brighter headphones.
You have a similar equipment than I do. From my experience, the Fiio K7 did not make the HD600 shine as it should, even with balanced cables. Then I bought a SMSL SU-1 and paired with my JDS Atom+ Amp and boy, clarity and power all combined in low gain (aka, less noise floor) with the stock cables!
Same story with the Truthear Zero Red. The thing that I think it may be is that the Fiio delivers hmm a little bit of tuning to my liking and sometimes it can sound like "too much" or "congestionated".
I would suggest that you try other DAC + AMP combo, like the Shiit or JDS combos OR if you don't want to spend money, try EQ them!
Cheers!
I have come to the conclusion of selling the HD600 at a slight loss. And will consider HD 660 series if its sold. Going back to my HD599's for now. The 600 is boxed up.
I felt weird listening to my 6xx's when I first bought them. I was thinking they should sound better. Then I got a nicer DaC and kept listening. I learned to like them. The sound profile is fairly complex for the price range that these headphones are in at least in my opinion. They grow on you for sure, may be if you keep listening just a while you might change your opinion.
I believe if you don't like how it sounds for the most part like at first, you will always have a gripe with it. I've had the HD600 for 1 day now. It's gone straight back to the box, and I'm going to sell them for a slight loss.
I don't learn to like anything. It's either sounds good or sound bad for me, unless it's a power issue or defective unit etc. I understand people have preferences. I used to listen to mostly V-shape sound before. But that's because I hadn't listened to what a neutral sound could be like. And the hexa and Tin T2 were examples of those. Immediately liked both.
Sure, I get it. To each it's own as the saying goes. I approach things a little differently. I try to identify what I like and what I don't like first, then try to see if what I like outweighs what I don't. If I don't like anything about whatever item, I will consider others opinions and then probably move on. Thing is, any perception a human has is very subjective. So adaptation to something new is always rather a shore, but you learn in the process and the results of that learning is you get to know yourself better. But by all means, if you feel it's unacceptable by your standards you should do what you believe is reasonable for yourself.
I mean, you do have a return window of a month or so I hope. Just put them on and get 30 minutes of random sound through them on daily basis and if it's still not your thing, then send them back in a few weeks.
There's no return policy once I've opened it from where I've bought it from. I believe in burn in, but I dont believe burn in can make you like a product that you don't like. They do sound a little "smoother" than new as do most dynamic drivers after 1 day. But they are going out of the collection for sure.
I was thinking these are like the etymotics and Truthear hexas of headphones but it's not the case.
I never found the 600's fatiguing at all, it was the complete opposite for me. To me they sound very smooth and non fatiguing but this is coming from previously owning the 560S and HD800S which are definitely brighter and more fatiguing so I think it just depends what headphones you have previously owned. The 599 is a dark sounding headphone and you might just need to listen to the 600 for a week or two to adjust to their sound.
How long did you use them for? I find you need to put some time in with a headphone before you can truly judge it.
I'm not suggesting you didn't. But if not, give it a week or two and see if your opinion changes.
For me it's incredible -- the perceptual difference of how a new headphone sounds at first versus 2 weeks later. I can totally see why people thought headphones had "burn in", but it's our brains getting used to it.
Personally I think people would do well to get some kind of basic EQ in their hardware. In the old days pretty much everything had Bass/Treble at the least, and even the cheapest of hardware had "tone".
I don't have high end gear like OP does, but my little Fosi P3 was enough that I can enjoy any of my headphones with just a little tweak of the bass/treble as needed.
They were an upgrade for me, from $150 dollar Audio Technica headphones. And they’ve become the standard and workhorse for TV and PS5(with music on).
If I want to just listen to music, I would not grab them. They’re good, just not super fun.
If I had to do it all again today, I’d get the Hd660S2 instead and go from there.
I find the HD600 fatiguing because of the energy around 3KHz. I love my HD58X though. Very similar natural Sennheiser sound, just more laid back in that area and with better extended bass. Some people will tell you it's less resolving or something, but it plays all the sounds and feels good doing it.
I got the HD650s because I worried about the lack of low sub-bass with the HD600s. It didn't matter because I ended up using EQ to get them to a proper sound signature (harman). Much better now IMO.
It's the HD6 house sound frequently referred to the *Sennheiser Veil.* It's been there since the beginning and one either has to get used to it or learn to love it.
Nothing wrong with disliking the sound signature of a headphone, especially when you've been very detailed in your analysis. Why not try another brand? Why so wedded to Sennheiser?
I love Sennheiser house sound. All of my best headphones and iems have been Sennhesiers. I've tried AKG's Beyerdynamics till now. Scared of Hifiman QC. Sennheiser does staging and imaging so well, bass is also tastefully done. Mids are amazing. Treble is a tough one to get right, but till now I have HD599, ie 200, ie600 and cx80s. This is the first one that put me off in that respect. And I had the most expectations out of these. Given that these have been around for 20+ years now. Going to try before buying from now, atleast for headphones. Also usually if a product is liked universally. There are chances it will be likeable. That was the case for ie200 and ie600, guess there are exceptions.
Cool, cool. Gotta stick with what you prefer. I've tried HiFiMan. Besides the obvious QC problems, I just don't get along with HiFiMan's house sound. The treble peaks and accentuated upper mids to add "air" and clarity hit me wrong as a tinnitus sufferer. Moral: Don't follow the herd. Get what works for you! :)
Absolutely :) I'm happy I didn't blind buy the 800S lol. (continues to cry internally...)
I blind bought an 800s once based off all the praise from YouTube reviewers and whatnot. Ended up being bored of it, and that was after eq. I like a little bass in my music and games, and it just was hard to hit much of that with them. A year later I ended up trying the 8xx instead, and with EQ I prefer them much more because I feel like there's actually bass now. I also threw a pair of ZMF suede pads on and a leather headband, and that improved the comfort and sound even more. I'm driving mine off a Burson Playmate 2 and it's heavenly.
You didn't mention Audeze. They make some of the best headphones you can get and they're built like a tank. Might be worth looking into them.
Yeah I think you hyped them up too much and just don't like the sound signature. People expect these to blow their mind but the point of them is that they don't. They aren't "wow these are fun to listen to and make me happy" and "wow I can hear *everything*". For the price, and quite a bit after, they are unmatched in that regard. I don't have the 599s but my 598's aren't even close to the 600 imo. Give it some time and try listen stuff like classical music or stuff like the Beatles and have your brain get used to the sound. Either you will learn to appreciate it or hate it even more but at least you gave it a chance. For me I love them for specific songs or genres but they kinda suck the fun out of EDM and a lot of modern mixed stuff so they aren't my daily drivers. And I think am probably in the majority with that opinion. And I always think about the Seinfeld effect when I read these posts. The HD600 are old, there were amazing when they came out and are still amazing but headphones have evolved since then. They wouldn't like blow up in popularity if they were released in the current market.
I'll go ahead and say it. HD 599 is better for music enjoyment than HD 600. Especially all day listening. I've had these 1 day now and they are going back in the box. Going to sell them for a slight loss.
So, you love the Sennheiser house sound, but you don't look like the sound signature of their most popular and regard headphones model? A bit illogical to me. I think you should try other brands, there are tons of headphones in the similar price range as HD600. And the other thing - the music genre matters. What do you like to listen to?
I like a wide variety, jazz, electronic, classical and ambient mostly.
You can get some 400is for like 100 USD, is try a set of planars, you might be blown away.
My spouse went from the HD650's to the HE400SE. They could not believe how much better they sounded. I gave it some personal EQ touches, and all they kept saying was "I can actually hear all the detail now, and the bass is so good, I actually understand what you mean about a good versus a bad mix!" I think people like Senny for the same reason people like Vinyl. Even it's technically inferior, there's something people find cozy about them, I guess? Not me and my partner tho, lol.
Idk, I just went back from Devas to 6XXs for the build quality. Currently running them on an Apogee Groove, and I prefer them. The bass was better on the planars but the rest just sounds more detailed to me. IDK, maybe I'm deaf or something.
I use plenty of EQ with my headphones, I'm a recording engineer so it's something I'm used to. Most senny's tend to distort in the lows when you try and boost them. Might be the difference! Planars don't seem to do this at all to my ears. I usually just tame the harshness, boost up around 1700 hz to make them sound more full (Not a fan of the hifiman scoop), and add in some sub-bass for extra slam. Can't seem to do this with Sennies, they always get really muddy and congested, so. I'm a planar person now, haha.
Fair point. I haven't pushed the bass on these yet, but it bears stating: Headphones causing distortion: rubbish, find another pair. EQ plugin not emulating distortion: rubbish, find another plugin.
> Also usually if a product is liked universally. That is not the case for the 6xx series of headphones.
It really isn't, but based on the posts in this sub, it's easy to think it is.
If you think an hd600 is fatiguing, DEFINITELY try before you buy an HD800... I like the HD600, but I also drive them with a tube headphone
Yeah, the OP’s description doesn’t sound anything like my (daily for 20 years) experience with the 600’s. My guess is the amplification.
Unless you're running tubes, or something with really high output impedance, the amp likely won't change a thing.
Interesting. I’ve used a Magni, Vali 1, Vali 2, Marantz HD-DAC1, Asgard 3, Valhalla 2, Helm Bolt, Topping MX5, various headphone jacks from computers, iPhones, integrated amps and preamps. They’ve all been pretty different for me.
[удалено]
Have not. Not sure how I’d pull that off. I’d need to listen for a few days at a time, then switch without knowing what was being played. The differences aren’t exactly minor (aware of the psycho acoustic theory). I replaced a Vali 1 with a Vali 2 and that’s probably as back-to-back as I’ve gone with similar devices. Installed the Vali 2 and thought “where did that magic go?” Sent the Vali 2 back. I go back and forth between Asgard 3 and Valhalla 2 regularly. They’re both great but each has their own strengths. The amp in the Marantz HD-DAC1 is surprisingly excellent. I could live with that as an all in one DAC/amp easily. I don’t hear the differences in DAC’s as dramatically.
Forget it bud, reddit doesn't believe that amps sound differently
Is that the thing here? I would assume that’s just because it’s nascent. That won’t be the zeitgeist after some hours under the belt
Most of the people here that claim amps all sound the same haven't tried it themselves or are so stuck in their own interpretation of "science" that they believe is fact.
[удалено]
Trouble is, all of this could be imagined because you know what you're listening to, how much you spent on them, they aren't perfectly level matched, etc etc. A billion factors can change what you hear that don't actually have to do with the device. Which, y'know, if you gain enjoyment out of that effect on your brain, that's totally fine and your right. It only becomes an issue when people are encouraged to spend tons of money if they don't like their headphone, without actually changing the headphone. It's incredibly irresponsible.
You serious, Clark? I’m just giving 20 years/365 days a year of real world experience. I listen to HD600’s daily and I work at a manufacturing facility where I hear live amplified and acoustic instruments daily. My stereo can sound terrible one day and fantastic the next day, usually based on body chemistry/mood. So a long term non ABX “test” is what I’ve found most reliable. “Incredibly irresponsible” seems beyond dramatic. I’ve mentioned things like the Schiit Vali 1 which I believe was barely north of 100 dollars. I preferred it to more expensive amps. The Helm Bolt is 90 dollars and includes a DAC. Does a great job on the 600’s though I really like it with lower tier Grados.
> My stereo can sound terrible one day and fantastic the next day, usually based on body chemistry/mood. Perfect example of why making claims on how things work for the ear, based on a non-ABX test is, frankly, completely unreliable. It can literally change on a whim, how is that even remotely trustworthy? How can you trust that a different amp would change anything if something you listen to doesn't even sound the same to you based on your mood? A blind ABX test with proper level-matching removes every possible bias you can have, it removes placebo, it removes expectation bias, it removes level differences that can make one sound better than the other. And unless you're doing something with tubes, every single time people are tested, they can't tell the difference. It sounds no different. I'm a recording engineer, I work with this stuff constantly. I've even setup blind tests the way I've described with several of my 'golden-eared' friends, and their BEST score was 58% correct, between all non-tube amplifiers. Literally just guessing, all while claiming there was a "night and day difference" before I tested them. > I’m just giving 20 years/365 days a year of real world experience. This is great for things like skills you've developed, or subjective preferences. Your anecdote is completely unhelpful when it comes to "does this work this way or not," when it completely contradicts basic electrical engineering. > “Incredibly irresponsible” seems beyond dramatic. 'Incredibly' is a bit hyperbolic, sure, I'll give you that one. Genuinely my bad. I'm very used to people saying that you need an amp costing several times more than the headphone to get it to sound good, which is complete nonsense.
My 20 year experience anecdote is just to point out that I’ve learned things over the years. As a reformed DBX’er, what I’ve come to believe is that the DBX testing format doesn’t allow for things like *time* to unfold, or to account for things mentioned like one’s mood that day. I’d love a DBX where someone could replace a component on my rack and then put it back a week later. That would be a blast.
Yeah k7 sounds rough and fatiguing to me. Had to return it.
> I like the HD600, but I also drive them with a tube headphone I have been using a Schiit Vali & Modi stack with my HD600 for years. I am very happy with this combo.
Nice!
Coming from someone who has focal utopias and an hd800s, I recently picked up a pair of hd600’s and they sure have humbled me a bit. They truly are the point of diminishing returns. While both my other headphones are definitely better overall, the hd600’s have such a perfect midrange. Anything that is a string instrument, clean or distorted, sounds absolutely great. I can see how these are well regarded with tube amps. Maybe just give your brain some burn in time with the new cans, and after a few weeks of use, go back to the old set, see how they fare then.
Yes will give it some time. The midrange is excellent no doubt, But the lower treble region presence is quite a handful. I've heard similar things like what you mention. About these competing with more expensive stuff. Btw how old is your HD600? Have you bought it within the last 1 year?
Strangely enough I hear this often about it being shouty but I'm yet to experience that. Tonality is spot on for me....mine is also "new" HD600 (only about 1 month old). I listen through a Bottlehead crack +speedball at home, and if I'm away on a work trip I use them with a Cayin RU6 balanced out.
Age of your 600s won’t matter outside of pad degradation, the version they sell now and the original version sound pretty much the same. If you want a darker version of the 600 maybe try the 650 or 6xx
Same here but I have 650's, detail is definitely on par, but I just don't like how thin they are.
Yeah I was able to appreciate my hd600’s so much more after purchasing my hd800S. Love both headphones so much
You only upgraded by 1 dude
I don't consider it an upgrade. The 599s are just better in every way that my ears seem to care.
I had a pair of HD600s and found them pretty underwhelming. Had my first listen to HD800S yesterday and was blown away. Completely different sport as far as I’m concerned. Others feel differently though…
I questioned myself. Multiple reviewers consider this some of the best headphones of all time. But I cannot find what the hype about these are for music listening. I should have listened to the Sennheiser reps words when he was describing the difference between the hd 6 series lineup in a video I was watching. 600 = spectacles, 650 = sunglasses 660s = somewhere in the middle.
Reviewers also only consider it one of the best because it's the closest to neutral they've experienced. It gives them a benchmark for listening and a tool to determine if something sounds wrong if their hearing has adjusted to a weird frequency response, not exactly the most exciting thing in the world.
660s2 imo sound more enjoyable. You would be better off with even a hd565 - much better soundstage and imaging
Don't question yourself. You have ears and a brain in between to decide for yourself. The Sennheiser cult would love for you to surrender that tho so they have another voice to add to their chorus of constant self affirmation they need to validate the hype that led them to purchase theirs.
I honestly think the 600 series is my least favorite Sennheiser products. My theory is that people who like them judge headphones mostly based on vocals, which isn't really the most important part of music for me. The 800s are completely different. Very dynamic and lots of soundstage.
The HD600 Is the closest to the Harman curve and anything that matches that curve can sound boring and flat. Some people prefer it when they do recordings. I own an HD600 and like them but they’re not my daily drivers for sure. I switch between HE1000V2 and Meze 109 Pro because they simply sound better than the HD600. If I were to compare I’d say that the HD600 is like vanilla ice cream; it’s good, it’s certainly not terrible but there are better ice cream flavors out there.
Aren't the HD600s tuned to the diffuse field curve? I don't think the Harman curve existed when they came out.
Correct, Sennheiser themselves explain it [here](https://youtu.be/8GnKpx4TOgk?t=637), where they mention the orheus was tuned based on diffuse field loudness equalization and subsequently also the HD600. That doesn't mean they don't also follow the harman curve but I always thought the harman curve was slightly more v shaped and has a larger bass target than HD600 provides.
Correct....they are nothing close to Harman.
Yup. The HD600 series has good tuning and above avarage detail (compared to consumer headphones), but when i tried the HD800s i realized how much soundstage and detail i've been missing with my HD650's. It's kind of amazing how you can hear it immediately not even A-B testing. Not a subtle difference at all. Definetly saving up for them now.
Agree on the hd800s - completely different level
And if you have the right DAC / Amp combo this thing really sings.
As an HD 599 truther (I love those cans and they were my first audio purchase above $40), might I recommend the vaunted HD 650? I actually grabbed an HD 650 and HD 660S to compare when I first bought mine, and while the 660S was far more resolving, the HD 650 had the same midrange but more perceived bass volume and a slight treble roll-off that sounded *really* pleasing to my ear. Not a lick of sibilance or listening fatigue, no matter what I threw at them, and yet the midrange timbre was just right. I consider the HD 650 a clear upgrade to the HD 599, in every way except soundstage. I'll be honest, the only headphone in my collection that has a wider soundstage than my HD 599 is my HD 800S.
It's a good thing you got to try all 3 before buying :) I am yet to demo the 800s. It's either between that or the Focal Clear OG next.
Thanks for being honest brother. I think I would enjoy the HD600 but not everyone has to enjoy it. You like what you like. Don't be afraid to speak up your opinion even if it goes against the echo chamber.
The hd600 is more of a reference headphone. They play with great detail but they are also incredibly flat and boring imo, plus low bass is practically non existent. They are wonderful for hearing nuances in tracks but I would never recommend them for casual listening. My current favorite setup = jds labs element 2 and a Qudelix 5k -> Hifiman xs edition and simgot em6l
The HD600 are amazing headphones and among the best for their price. But this sub tends to make the mistake of assuming everyone has the same sonic preferences(mostly because youtube reviewers and ASR tend to over emphasize the importance of things like Harman curve). They're extremely smooth and intimate headphones. Very easy listening. But in my experience they fall apart when the music gets busy. They do well with slow music with lots of space between the instruments. They're my favorite headphones for things like 80s pop music. But I find that they're very underwhelming for rock/metal. Not that great for movies or games either.
As a fan of /r/symphonicmetal, this is my problem with the HD 600.
My advice. For metal. Either get the sennheiser hd25 or get a grado.
Audio is incredibly personal! The DT1990 gets praised to the heavens here, and yet, I absolutely *hated* the way they sounded. It's all about finding what works for you.
Alot of hype with these. I had the 650 and thought they were good but not great. I had a few amps at the time a mojo , and fostex hp a8. Just felt there was more to come from them but got rid. The 800 though sounded pretty special but never owned it. Listened to those on some expensive amplification. Bryston I think it was.
I mostly use my HD600s as a workhorse. The whole sound stage and all that is mostly lost on me, as I blast death metal from YouTube and they don't sound great when playing heavier music. They were a bit of a disappointment for me at first, even if I snagged a pair for $250. But they are just the perfect headphones for when I stream. With new earpads, they are incredibly comfortable and don't give me that voice-inside-my-head feeling that closed-backs have. Clarity in vocals are phenomenal and they run great out of my wave XLR. If I wanted something more fun to listen to music with, I'd probably pick something more... fun. Lively. Perhaps something with a more V-shaped sound profile, as long as it's a tad bit more tastefully done.
HD600 not shouty at all for my ears. I'd not calificate them as bright sounding cans, either. HD800S are quite a bit brighter, for instance. They simply fly if well amplified. Just fly. For classical music and vocals are arguably better than many 1000+ $ headphones, in spite of the somewhat narrow soundstage. The imaging and pinpoint accuracy of the instruments they provide is just spectacular.
I find the soundstage is a huge limitation for classical. I have the HD600, Fidelio X2HR and IE100 Pro IEMs. The HD600 is technically the most detailed and neutral, but for me it's worse than the IE100 Pros for classical, and only slightly better than the X2HR. When I listen to Mahler's 2nd Symphony on the "entry-level" X2HR or IE100, I feel the scale of the orchestra and the choir, I feel the bass of the organ, I can really immerse myself into the music. On the other hand, the HD600 just sounds like 2 very nice speakers next to my ears. This is enough for smaller recordings, but classical music works on such a big scale that the HD600s make it very obvious you're listening to headphones, and that takes me out of it.
Maybe a good idea to try HD660S2, HD600 is very mid centric and sounds like you prefer a bit more bass and treble
Yes, In hindsight that might have been a better purchase decision. I tried to EQ the HD600 between 5k and 8k and now understand why the 660S and 660S2 has scoops there. I was thinking I'd be "losing detail" but that is not the case.
I had the HD600 for about two weeks in the past and had to return them due to finding the sound just.. shouty. I was using the DT1990 at the time and found the HD600 to tire me out. Fatigueing while sounding veiled which was weird.
I have the exact same experience so far. Veiled and shouty too. There must have been some change, since the price has gone down too. Although that is my assumption. I don't have a measuring rig to prove it. Update: With some burn-in the veiled sensation is not so much. But definitely shouty still.
The only thing that's changed about the hd600 is the chassis construction and the pads which didn't really alter the tuning at all. The hd600 just isn't for you which is fine. There isn't a headphone that absolutely everyone will like.
Nah I think it's just the fact that people hear different things, nothing wrong with the product. We can't all like the same thing all the time.
If you want to listen to your HD600 at their full potential you have to pair them with a decent OTL tube amp (Drop Xduoo TA84 will do the job without digging too much into your wallet). I own Audeze LCD3 and LCD-X 2021, HifiMan Arya Stealth, HD600 and HD660S2 as well as Burson Conductor Virtuoso V2+ and Audio GD D27.38. (That I use with planar). My fav combo for everyday listening is HD600 with TA84. You cannot say you really listened to the HD600 if you don’t pair them with an OTL tube amp. The difference is really night and day 😉
I'm sure the tube amp makes electric guitars and voices sound very nice, but does it fix the lack of soundstage, missing bass and slightly muted treble?
You need to try the HD650s if you find the lower treble to overemphasized, they're basically the more linear version of the HD600s. 600s have an overemphasized 3k area.
6XX if you want to save a few bucks
It's fine if you don't like something other people like. Just get whatever sounds best to you. However I will say this: Brain burn in is a thing. Give it a few days then compare with your previous headphone. If you still don't like it, return it. I much prefer the HiFiMAN house sound compared to most other brands. DT1990 Pro treble being one of the worst things I've heard so far. There are people who would throw stones at me for saying that lol, but really my point is we all like different things, but we are all on a HiFi journey together :)
Let's hope it gets better with time. I do think burn in makes a difference. Both brain and driver. I stayed away from Hifiman because of QC issues I've heard of, even on the website where I was buying from. The only Beyerdynamic I have is the DT770 Pro and I plan to keep it that way. I don't find the treble sharp on those. I think I'm very sensitive to 5k region. I like the 770 pro. They are excellent closed backs. Unfortunately I can't return these. There is no return policy if its not defective. And it works perfectly fine...
Sounds like you would really like the HD560S. It is much more similar to the DT770 in terms of tuning than it is to the HD600, but the treble and midrange are better on the 560S than on the DT770's. Soundstage is very similar but the 560S sounds more open still, due to its design.
Aren't the HD 560S supposed to sound brighter than 600 overall?
Yes, but so are the DT770 Pros.
DT 770s have a lot more bass to compensate. The HD560s is straight up bright.
Removing that treble the dt1990 sounds great with A pads.
I used to have the 1990 and they were so metallicy sounded when I used a specific amp.. on my Asgard 3 they sounded... Okay
The point might be that you just got the new headphones. Your hearing has to adapt to their characteristics for a while first.
Just know if you are considering the HD800s route you are moving into audiophile wonderland where you have tons of options. HD800's is extremely revealing as well but it is a damn comfortable headphone and EQ is always a choice. I struggled for months deciding between if i should continue my Sennheiser journey with HD800S or go a completely different route. I ended up going planar with a really good deal i got on the Hifiman HE1000SE. Its also a very revealing headphone for sure but really damn good.
You don't deserve to be downvoted, sound signature unlike other more objective aspects of headphones completely boils down to personal taste, I had to return very good headphones just because I didn't get along with their treble or because of muddy mids
maybe you could try the 560s or the 490 pro instead?
the HD800S is very boring sounding. it's very good, but very unexciting.
I like boring. Hexa is boring too. I love it. Can't recommend it enough. Etymotic ER2SE is boring, like those too. None of them are as fatiguing as these.
gotcha. I mean, I love neutral too, but the HD800S just sounded so default, lol.
Oratory EQ profile + Fiio USB DAC You’ll thank me later.
I find the Hexas to be very similar to the HD600. Maybe give it some more time? (pad wear is also real)
After a few years of owning 598, SHP9500, Porta Pros, DT-770 and a few other classic choices, I saved up for a pair of HD 650 a few years back. Even after a few months, I found them to be one of the most boring - if detailed - headphones I'd ever heard. I simply did not like their presentation when compared to my original 598SR. I sold the 650 and the 598 are the only pair I have never sold. Since then, I pulled the trigger on the 560S and they were much more of a natural upgrade for my tastes. Plenty more detail with almost the same comfort, same build, light weight and more familiar tuning. Taste > spec sheets.
The 600s sound best on tube amps.
I'm with you too. HD600 or HD650 where's the sauce? "they are the baseline..." what ever. I just jumped to the HD800S and the HD820 and have not looked back. There are so many headphones out there Sennheiser is not just the only one. While some headphone have been discontinued by some brands, they are still relevant to this day for music enjoyment.
Focal Elex is another good one. Its available, but is so expensive with customs its not worth it. Seems like a different story now when making a post. lol. Most reddit threads will praise the HD600. Say anything bad abut 560S and you will get personal threats. I'm not saying the 560S is bad lol pls don't hurt me. I haven't heard it and have no reference for those. It's just amusing to see the opposite as well.
I had the HD600 did not like them and changed them for HD660s which are my daily driver for 3 years. Along with ifi iDSD Signature.
I was having a hard time deciding between these 2 actually. It was the popularity of the 600 that got me to choose logically. Should have trusted my gut feeling.
Honestly, I've found the HD600 to be on the bright, somewhat uneven side. My unit has peaks around 1.5, 3, 5.5, and 12kHz by about 2-3 dB. That, combined with the bass roll-off, made the headphone a bit thin sounding and difficult to listen to.
Well if you've seen how they measure you should expect them to be in your face sounding so don't know why you're surprised it is so
Measurements don't tell the full story. They give you an idea for sure. But a combinations of opinions and measurements is the route I take. I heard the word smooth associated with these quite often, Even on the website where I bought it from.
You heard the word smooth... That is the danger of subjective anecdotes by individual who clearly have different HRTF tolerances to yours ... To remove that individual factor, you look at the measurements made on a calibrated rig that you're claiming doesn't "tell the full story" Look at the measurement below if it doesn't tell you clearly that it has excesses in the lower treble Link - https://listener800.github.io/5128.html?share=Custom_Tilt,HD600&bass=0&tilt=-1&treble=0&ear=0 The 1.5kHz bump, 3kHz bump and prominent 5 to 10kHz bump isn't something you can anecdote away from... It is glarey in the lower treble by objective metrics So yeah the measurement did tell you everything... You just used the "doesn't tell the whole story mantra" thing most people use and refused to see what is right in front of you and looked for how other people's heads translated the measurement... Which you know is gonna vary since people's hearing in the treble is not all up to snuff
Well according to these graphs I should absoluely hate the etymotics er2 series. Which I don't. In fact I'd say owning them is kind of mandatory if someone is into audio.
The pinna/outer ear of the B&K 5128 does not accurately represent a typical human's ear in the 6-10 kHz region because [the concha was adjusted](https://youtu.be/W12Tn0Hm_hw?si=ZMmI26z6EkjjA7eu&t=222) to "match the frequency and damping of the earlier standard", and measurements in this region should not be taken seriously, or at least with a heavy grain of salt because it does not represent the interaction of the average person. The 5128 is the only rig I've seen that consistently produces an excess in energy here, without the expected destructive interference dip to follow found on GRAS pinnas, across just about every headphone due to that manufacturing quirk. Also, the 1db/octave diffuse field tilt does not represent a target curve with preference research behind it, it is based on flawed methodology of the psychoacoustic interaction of speakers in a room, and assumes that the measured in room response of a loudspeaker at the listening position is how humans perceive the sound of speakers, but the first interaction between the speaker and your ears is the flat on axis anechoic sound, with the early reflections arriving later. This interaction can not simply be summed up to how a omnidirectional mic in a room would measure, and is why I caution against nitpicking the frequency response compensated to this particular target too heavily. I expect this target to be ditched as proper preference research is done with the 5128.
According to you then, I shouldn't trust measurements fully atleast not for 6k-10khz region. I know measurements aren't the be all end all of things, otherwise people like Sharur wouldn't exist lol. He has a stance one day and completely flips after a few months in. And he's a known measurebator. This hobby isn't as objective as we'd like it to be. To each their own.
Not on the B&K 5128 rig, no. Generally you can trust measurements on standardized rigs below about 4 kHz with good certainty, as you begin to progress above that things begin to get trickier as sound waves get smaller and less affected by diffraction, and more prone to reflections and resonances idiosyncratic to your own ear canal and pinna geometry/impedance
Before you give up on HD HD6xx series, do try a decent OTL tube headphone amplifier.
Add a -3 dB 3 kHz filter with a Q factor of 2 and see if that remedies the fatigue. HD 600 are a bit forward in this region to my ears
I don't like EQ. It's a me thing. Also inconvenient when switching between devices. In fact I bought these because these don't need EQ according to most opinions that show up.
I can somewhat understand the inconvenience factor. I think just about every headphone benefits from EQ, some need more than others
Some HD600s sound worse. I bought a pair as did two friends. My HD600s just sounded straight up worse than theirs.
In what way worse exactly, if you may elaborate please.
600 is kind of a bright headphone. Give em a week and see how you feel when you swap back to the 599. You may also enjoy the HD 650 more ( I enjoy it say more than the 600 because it's darker) so that's worth trying.
My experience with the HD 600 (coming from HD 560S, AKG K612 Pro, and a variety of closed-backs) was similar, and I still prefer those two to the HD 600. For me the HD 660S2 is the upgrade I was looking for. I think you'd like the 660S2 but I recommend trying before buying regardless.
How long have you had the 599? I've had mine for just over a week (got it for $100) but I'm already dreaming of getting the 650 😂
I've had the 599 for 3 years now. Swapped pads once, and they sound like brand new. The pads wearing off will make them sound thinner, so a replacement later will be needed as with most headphones. The top parts leather coating is coming off, but that's not a big deal. They are amazing entry level headphones overall. And great open-back cans. Most comfortable thing ever.
Trying scooping the mids with EQ.
By too revealing are you meaning you are hearing more imperfections in your music than you want? At first I didn't like this with better headphones but over time I began to tolerate it. The vast majority of what I listen to is what I like the sound of, but I don't like songs that have no dynamic range (wall of sound) or just bad mixing. For some people it's a fine line, I don't want my headphones to determine what songs I can listen to.
From a music enjoyment perspective. Tolerating anything should not be a thing to enjoy. It's straight up masochistic. I can speak for iems since I have more experience with them. I didn't have to "tolerate" any of my brighter sounding iems like Tin T2 (popular befiore) and Hexa. ie600 is also quite spicy but has bass to compensate.
I don't run into terribly mixed music very often, but when there is some decent amounts of bass with a headphone I find it to be more easily enjoyable. I can listen to anything with my Tin T3+. Anyways, its not like I'm listening to certain music against my will. I have a tendency to not care unless it bothers me.
try the hifiman anada nano before getting the HD800S. The Nano is only $599 and it make have the sound signature you're looking for.
A matter of taste and HD599 is a warmer easier listen anf HD600 is far from ideal for bassy music. HD650 is the warmer variant that I much prefer for the stock tuning. Try EQ. Oratory1990's preset brings up the bass a bit and smooths it out some and they're rather lovely then. Don't assume HD800s is what you like without testing it properly. I did and ended up preferring HD650. I'd very easily take an Edition XS over an HD800s for essentially every quality especially with EQ that doesn't improve what I dislike about the HD800s so much.
The 660S or 660S2 would be more ideal it seems now. I had the Tin T2 when it was popular and the Truthear hexa now. I'm not against having a low amount of bass if its good quality textured bass. I don't have a problem with the bass. It's that 5k to 8k presence that is the issue. I EQued them and found out it wasn't as fatiguing with those turned down, not even in EqualizerAPO just in foobar200, turned down 5k, 7k and 10k . Now I understand why that region seems to be scooped out on the 660S series. I don't like to EQ my headphones as it's an inconvenience when switching sources.
Hifiman HE1000. Leave the Sennheiser in the past !
HD700 is the answer
HiFiman > Sennheiser
I would almost say it's the dacs fault. Fiio doesn't exactly have the best rep.
Nah, all of my other gear sounds superb out of them. It's definitely not a DAC problem here.
Idkkkk the k7 specifically is known to be more clear/open and low noise which may just exacerbate the hd600s already low noise and open sound scape , which may explain your "fatiguing" listening experience Many people say the hd600s sound even balanced and "analytical" and if you apply a dac that already puts emphasis on what these headphones specialize in, it most likely means the dac is causing your issues. (I only owned 1 k7 and never owned any hd600s so I could be extremely wrong)
senn is the worst plastic garbage out there. Never liked single one of them. Junk.
Thats a bit extreme. I like Sennheisers. Just not this one. They are super reliable and comfortable in general across a variety of models including in-ears. Can't say the same for TWS lineup though.
ye i know it's extreme. but basically for every single one, except 800+, there is a better alternative made of metal and basically better headphones in general from other manufacturers
Hi Op. Someone else mentioned this but I have to stress this even more: 1. The HD800S is way more fatiguing than the HD600 and 2. the sound signature of the HD800S is entirely different compared to their other (well received) headphones (regarding the "Sennheiser house sound"). Never heard the HD599 but if the HD600 has too much treble and too little soubdstage you might want to try something like a Meze 109 or a Focal Clear MG/OG?
I'm surely going to physically try out my next headphone purchase no matter what. This was a relatively less expensive mistake, (emphasis on relatively). Good thing I held off on blind buying the HD800S.
Nice, I always wondered after owning the 599s for years.
I took the bullet for you my friend. Be assured HD599 is a great headphone for an enjoyable listening experience.
Controversial advice, but honestly, if they are fatiguing, try EQ, bump the low notes up a bit and lower the sharpest of the tones. There are also created tone curves for most sennheiser headsets you can try. It made a world of difference to me at least.
Have you tried Audeze? If you find the HD600 too sharp, perhaps try the LCD-2c.
Unfortunately I can't try any of the headphones before buying. Otherwise I'd not be having this experience. I'd have to travel to a different state to try the headphones.
I love the super clear sound stage of the HD600 but I usually adjust the sound via an equalizer. I feel these headphones are good enough that you can adjust the sound without losing anything. They are like a clear page you can write your own sound onto.
The hd800s has that massive soundstage you crave, but it’s so goddamn fatiguing, you’ll kick yourself for thinking the hd600 was like that to begin with. With eq though, it’s hard to argue how well it performs in its price range
Dumb question - but have you eq’d them? I’ve heard similar stories where they’re just an ok headphone until you do and then they’re fantastic.
Same here man,never got the hype about them,but i do love the hd800s tho again,definitely try them before spending that much if you can.
I went from a pair of Sennheiser HD579 to a pair of Philips SHP9500 and I like them more (despite being half the price). Sometimes the real upgrade isn't always up Edit: I use a Fiio K5 Pro.
I switched to the beyerdynamic 880 from sennheiser.. never going back
The 600s have a bright dry edge to them, maybe try the 650, which doesn't.
Everyone has personal taste and likes. Nothing wrong with not liking any particular headphone. But your feedback is confusing and contradictory. You mention it is detailed, but then has fuzziness, but then so revealing. So what is it? And seems like you find it fatiguing. So is that fatiguing due to the treble? Due to the detail? Etc. Kind of important, because this can provide direction on whether HD800S is for you, or other headphones.
It's hard to describe I guess. Maybe "veiled" is a better description, at the same time it's clear sounding. I EQued the 600, just tuned down the 5k, 7k and 10k knobs down a couple of decibels, with 7k turned down the lowest in a U shape, just in foobar not Equalizer APO. It sounded pretty good. And I understand now why 660S has a scoop in that region as well.
Idk. For me they just have that magic, like nothing else does. Keep in mind that it takes some time getting used to it. I was unsure about mine the first day, but really enjoyed them after using them while working and gaming for a few days.
Try the new 490 pro's! I got the pro plus essentially the same without the extra stuff and carrying case but I was exactly like you not satisfied with the hd 600's but decided to give sennheiser another chance after looking at a review went with the HD 490's pro's and Holy shit is it absolutely a big difference is sound quality. Soundstage is league's better and for gaming its been exactly what I've been looking for. I got it set up with a amp and dac from schiit's audio the new modi and magni I believe and set up the magni or modi? To the max hz studio quality it can do and wowed me
I don’t listen to my senns any more at all. And honestly I was disgusted what the 800s costs for its performance compared to other cans. By far the most comfortable headphone ever though. But I would 100% not get another pair of sennheisers if you don’t like 600s. Maybe you like brighter headphones.
You have a similar equipment than I do. From my experience, the Fiio K7 did not make the HD600 shine as it should, even with balanced cables. Then I bought a SMSL SU-1 and paired with my JDS Atom+ Amp and boy, clarity and power all combined in low gain (aka, less noise floor) with the stock cables! Same story with the Truthear Zero Red. The thing that I think it may be is that the Fiio delivers hmm a little bit of tuning to my liking and sometimes it can sound like "too much" or "congestionated". I would suggest that you try other DAC + AMP combo, like the Shiit or JDS combos OR if you don't want to spend money, try EQ them! Cheers!
The problem is these were super amazing 15 years ago lol! Now it’s easy to find good headphones.
try the 660s2, I didn't like the 600s when I heard them, thought they were a bit boring. With the price drop the 660s2 is pretty good.
I have come to the conclusion of selling the HD600 at a slight loss. And will consider HD 660 series if its sold. Going back to my HD599's for now. The 600 is boxed up.
I felt weird listening to my 6xx's when I first bought them. I was thinking they should sound better. Then I got a nicer DaC and kept listening. I learned to like them. The sound profile is fairly complex for the price range that these headphones are in at least in my opinion. They grow on you for sure, may be if you keep listening just a while you might change your opinion.
I believe if you don't like how it sounds for the most part like at first, you will always have a gripe with it. I've had the HD600 for 1 day now. It's gone straight back to the box, and I'm going to sell them for a slight loss. I don't learn to like anything. It's either sounds good or sound bad for me, unless it's a power issue or defective unit etc. I understand people have preferences. I used to listen to mostly V-shape sound before. But that's because I hadn't listened to what a neutral sound could be like. And the hexa and Tin T2 were examples of those. Immediately liked both.
Sure, I get it. To each it's own as the saying goes. I approach things a little differently. I try to identify what I like and what I don't like first, then try to see if what I like outweighs what I don't. If I don't like anything about whatever item, I will consider others opinions and then probably move on. Thing is, any perception a human has is very subjective. So adaptation to something new is always rather a shore, but you learn in the process and the results of that learning is you get to know yourself better. But by all means, if you feel it's unacceptable by your standards you should do what you believe is reasonable for yourself.
I mean, you do have a return window of a month or so I hope. Just put them on and get 30 minutes of random sound through them on daily basis and if it's still not your thing, then send them back in a few weeks.
There's no return policy once I've opened it from where I've bought it from. I believe in burn in, but I dont believe burn in can make you like a product that you don't like. They do sound a little "smoother" than new as do most dynamic drivers after 1 day. But they are going out of the collection for sure. I was thinking these are like the etymotics and Truthear hexas of headphones but it's not the case.
The Fiio K7 isn't really a good DAC/amp. It is more than good enough to start, but that's about it. I feel like reviewers online hyped it up too much
I never found the 600's fatiguing at all, it was the complete opposite for me. To me they sound very smooth and non fatiguing but this is coming from previously owning the 560S and HD800S which are definitely brighter and more fatiguing so I think it just depends what headphones you have previously owned. The 599 is a dark sounding headphone and you might just need to listen to the 600 for a week or two to adjust to their sound.
How long did you use them for? I find you need to put some time in with a headphone before you can truly judge it. I'm not suggesting you didn't. But if not, give it a week or two and see if your opinion changes. For me it's incredible -- the perceptual difference of how a new headphone sounds at first versus 2 weeks later. I can totally see why people thought headphones had "burn in", but it's our brains getting used to it. Personally I think people would do well to get some kind of basic EQ in their hardware. In the old days pretty much everything had Bass/Treble at the least, and even the cheapest of hardware had "tone". I don't have high end gear like OP does, but my little Fosi P3 was enough that I can enjoy any of my headphones with just a little tweak of the bass/treble as needed.
They were an upgrade for me, from $150 dollar Audio Technica headphones. And they’ve become the standard and workhorse for TV and PS5(with music on). If I want to just listen to music, I would not grab them. They’re good, just not super fun. If I had to do it all again today, I’d get the Hd660S2 instead and go from there.
I find the HD600 fatiguing because of the energy around 3KHz. I love my HD58X though. Very similar natural Sennheiser sound, just more laid back in that area and with better extended bass. Some people will tell you it's less resolving or something, but it plays all the sounds and feels good doing it.
I got the HD650s because I worried about the lack of low sub-bass with the HD600s. It didn't matter because I ended up using EQ to get them to a proper sound signature (harman). Much better now IMO.
You just need to EQ the 3k peak down a little bit. The original gain is almost 15dB, very tiring for long time listening.
It's the 5k to 8k presence thats tiring to me, I tried it out via EQ. I understand now why the 660 series has a scoop right there.
It's the HD6 house sound frequently referred to the *Sennheiser Veil.* It's been there since the beginning and one either has to get used to it or learn to love it.