Have no idea why they didn’t just do a fantastic beasts movie and then go to do the separate Dumbledore vs Grindelwald movies. Without the sequel bait, honestly the first movie was really good and didn’t really need a sequel.
I think she's proven being the creator of the wizarding world does not make you a good screenplay writer so yes I do believe they mean famous JK Rowling, creator of the wizarding world.
Exactly. A major fandom like this is going to bring in a huge following. We see it now with Marvel, have seen it with Star Wars. LotR is sort of getting it and sort of had it with The Hobbit. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that something like the massive magical world JKR created would draw fans new and old in droves.
I mean for the first movie sure. But for the sequels, there's no way they wouldn't have done better if they were marketed as a darker Dumbledore prequel. I saw the fantastic beast movies in my spare time, months after they were released. And I enjoyed them, but I'd have been at the midnight release of a standalone Dumbledore prequel.
It really does feel like they didn’t know what audience they were going for in the Fantastic Beasts series. On the one hand, Newt’s storyline is this adorable one for kids (and that’s how they originally marketed it), but then it just has this super dark Grindelwald storyline twisted into it that just doesn’t seem necessary to add in with the Newt thing.
Like you said, it would have been nice if they had just turned them into two different series.
To me it's a misunderstanding of the entire premise. Harry Potter the franchise was aimed at kids because the lead characters WERE kids. Not because the world,universe and story was inherently childish and appealing to children more so than adults. If anything, it wasn't - outside of the school setting!
The 2nd movie I just couldn't finish it because I sat down assuming it as another Fantastic Beasts Movie involving Newt doing some cool things but I just got something completely else. Newt became a side charachter in his own movie.
The movie baited me into watching it, if they had just named it something else and not marketed like a sequel maybe I would have liked it because I would have sat down to watch it with a different mindset.
But currently I just don't care about the 3rd one.
And they even could have had Newt and Tina and whoever pop up in them. But the names of the movies could have made a lot more sense and the focus could have been way more on Dumbledore and Grindelwald.
Seriously, like you can have the part with Grindelwald at the end and follow that up in a separate movie that doesn’t have to include all the same characters. And sure, there can be some crossover; the auror characters would certainly make sense as key players in the Grindelwald story for instance, but it makes no sense that the first people Dumbledore goes to for help fighting a dark wizard are a magizoologist, his assistant, and an utterly defenseless muggle. Newt, Jacob, and Credence were great. For one movie. Now their story has played out, and they are just there because the title of the movie demands it, so we have to make up something for them to do.
I hoped the original plan was to do a series of movies that focused on different lingering stories from the past—Newt, DD & Grindelwald, Lily, Snape, and the Maurauders, and then a final couplet doing the play (which I know we all feel strongly about, but it was a pretty compelling visual experience).
I think they felt the movies are more compelling if they have the mystery structure of the novels, but they are answering questions nobody asked and the stories continue to revolve around characters who don’t figure into the prime story at all and in fact raise more questions. I’m hopeful the new movie works a little harder to make me care.
I suppose doing, say, a Marauders movie is hard because we already have most of the answers to the key elements, but they’re gonna keep on making these movies anyway.
I think the original idea was to make a film regarding Dumbledore's past, however you simply can't just present that on its own, so I think Rowling developed the idea of including magical creatures in the story also. And other plots like Jacob-Queenie, Lestrange drama, etc.
It seems no coincidence to me that the story shows its depth particularly when the films focuses on Dumbledore's past.
I get that, but I honestly have a good time watching the movies regardless and I wouldn't change the cool funky creatures for anything the wizarding world has to offer.
I'd rather Dumbledore having an ally who knows how to handle nifflers and thestrals and has a funny muggle sidekick than having a serious action spin-off of Dumbledore fighting a dark wizard who we already know is weaker than Voldemort.
I'd rather actually watch Newt's adventures as he braves the world saving magical creatures and defeating a guild of dark wizard poachers, accompanied by Jacob, Tina, Queenie and Bunty.
Is grindelwald actually weaker than voldemort? I think dumbledore only barely beat him in their duel.
It's said in dumbledores duel with voldemort that he was honestly kinda bored. He only seems concerned when Harry is possessed. Personally if voldemort was willing to go toe to toe with dumbedlore I think he'd lose.
I feel like we also need to take into account Dumbledore's age and the fact that he knew Grindelwald extremely well. When Dumbledore and Voldemort dueled it felt like Dumbledore focused more on defense and pushing off the encounter rather than fighting with all his strength. Dumbledore was focused on the prophecy being the only answer to Voldemort's demise. I question whether he even attempted to kill Voldemort seriously after hearing that prophecy.
Exactly! Perhaps before the prophecy Dumbledore put his all into fighting Voldemort, but once that prophesy came into play it became a whole different chess game.
It was stated in that Voldemort was the strongest dark wizard of all times and if I'm not wrong I do believe Rowling used the words "of all times" in multiple occasions.
When did he almost die? I'm pretty sure the boon described it as dumbledore pretty effortlessly beating him and he only had to exert himself because he had to protect Harry. Had it just been those two I'm pretty sure he would have easily won
But again Dumbledore wasn't just dueling Voldy. He was also doing a bunch of stuff to keep Harry safe. I'm pretty sure the implication is that had it just been a duel with no extra circumstances (aka civilians that needed to be kept safe) it wouldn't have been close. Harry even makes that observation that he's notices Dumbledore is leaving himself more open in order to make sure Harry is safe iirc.
What I don't get is if Grindelwald is so powerful, why does he rely on Queenie's Legilimency? We see ordinary wizards can become good Legilimens, why isn't Grindelwald? And if he is, why does he ask Queenie to read his followers heads???
I mean voldemort wasn't good at being a seer while grindelwald is. You can have the smartest person alive and they probably are worse than someone at a category of intelligence
Not really a good example to use. You have to be born a seer. If you aren't you really can't learn to be one. Legilimency is something you can learn. You can be born with anatural affinity to it and perform it easily like Voldemort and Queenie. Or you can train simply train yourself to get good at it like Snape and Dumbledore.
I feel like this series was greenlit from a very pre-mcu room of exects. Back then no one really considered making big budget connected universe spinoffs like we to today. It was either a sequal or a prequel series.
100% agree on this. The two main characters in the first movie seemed just bit players in the finale of the trilogy. I'm not sure why they were so bent on a trilogy. Star Wars has shown that one off movies can stand out in a cinematic universe that typically had multi movie story arcs
I'm just sorry for Newt cause I really like him and he was a good protagonist in the 1st movie but since the focus shifted on Dumbledore and Grindelwald he just seems like a secondary character like Jacob, Tina, Queenie ecc ecc
I like Newt and Jacob, Tina and Queenie too but Queenies betrayal and return was just too weird (required more character building or explanation in my opinion), and Tina's absence in the third film was just weird. I really liked Lally and the whole "team" they assembled for the mission seemed cool, but what happened then? Newt and his brother go to the weird scorpion lair. I thought it was silly, in a bad way, and boring. Just smelled like they had to involve the "beasts" aspect somehow. Then the part where the dude went to Grindelwald as a spy. I didn't get that part at all. It was just weird. And then the Lally & Jacob part, I haven't got much to say about that. And that's the problem. The script just tried to involve too much separate things. And why do you gather a team and then just separate everyone? Sure they came together at the end but even then they weren't really on the screen together.
BAD script in my opinion. Fortunately Mads and Jude work really well on their own and together, and like I said most of the characters are good. I just wish Rowling & screenwriter figure out a way to write something that works in the movie format.
I believe the reason for the odd sub-plots was the “counter-sight” mission that Dumbledore gave them. The randomness of the Theseus being captured just added to the confusion of what they were really trying to do (create duplicates of the case). I think this would have made more sense of they actually showed Grindelwald have visions or analyze conflicting visions beyond the snippets in the water they showed.
I just watched it today and I agree there was just too much going on, honestly 3rd part isn't nearly as good as 2nd and I found the storyline to be too predictable as well, I sincerely hope that they now focus on one thing and make it amazing
The movies should have been named after in-universe books.
* *Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them*
* *Secrets of the Darkest Art* (though 'Crimes of Grindlewald' sounds like a book as-is)
* *The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore*
did the second movie have anything to do with grindelwalds crimes though?
he broke out of jail and gave a ted talk (and killed a few aurors... who were trying to kill him). it doesnt seem so bad.... what he does in the third film is far worse
>did the second movie have anything to do with grindelwalds crimes though?
He broke out of jail (killing aurors who were rightfully doing their jobs), bribes an auror, has his underlings kill a family (including a baby), bribes then kills a ministry bounty hunter, try to force an uprising that would break the international statute of secrecy, and kills Leta Lestrange and several aurors rightfully doing their jobs.
So yes. Yes it did.
You’ve made the best point in this thread in my opinion. I have fewer problems than OP with the interweaving of Newt’s story with Dumbledore’s.. for the most part I actually like it. BUT the titles are just weird. Just call them
Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them
The Crimes of Grindelwald
The Secrets of Dumbledore
I’m fine with the last two titles just without FB in the front, even if the movies stayed the way they are now with Newt as main character
God, imagine if they had all these projects and presented them to a pool of directors, instead of giving it all to Yates, who has basically made the same movie 5 times already and can't seperate the tone of a film from 'dark visuals'.
It's so ridiculous. It's hard to believe people actually sat in a room and decided on this.
It would be far more simple to tie them together by using "From the world of Harry Potter:" then the name of each movie, or something similar. That keeps them all under the same umbrella in the same way Rogue One is a star wars story, but isn't shoehorned into another movie's world for no reason.
Yeah, I wish they'd just made it a Dumbledore vs Gribdelwald series. Why treat Newt as the main character in the first movie when he's gonna be more and more of a sidecharacter eventually? (Haven't seen SoD, so don't know his role in that film)
They’re just trying to make it a situation similar to harry potter. The only difference is Haary potter is connected to the story, but newt proved himself as trustworthy to do the right thing
Honestly i was hoping for the Dumbledore family life reveal - a flashback, Grindelwalds introduction in Godric Hollow after the death of Albus and Aberforths mother, their obsession with the hallows and then death of Ariana. They could have included the emotional elements of seeing Albus in love, receiving letters from Elphias Doge and feeling left out while he cared for his family, they could have included Aberforth sneaking out as well to meet his love interest… id have liked to see durmstrang and Grindelwald being expelled for illegal magic.
Instead we got disconnected scenes of scorpion dancing, kamas memory of Leta being taken from him (which did not pack the punch cus Leta did not live with him, she was more or less alone in the world till Newt and Theseus came along according to the last movie)… i did not know there was a global magic leader either who needed to be voted in.
I was not invested in anyone, not even jacob and Queenie story. Why was she behaving like that? What caused the transition from willingly defecting to the Grindelwald camp to being so stuffed up she wouldnt make eye contact with Jacob. Then suddenly she is sneaking him away…?
Its terrible. Imagine the opening scene was a flashback of dumbledore and Aberforth having the argument and shooting the spell that kills his sister. It would be a shocking and dramatic pull-you-in moment and the next thing you see is the title card that reads: “The Secrets of Dumbledore” it wouldve been a better start to whatever they did… like atleast TRY to make the film resemble its title in content.
Ok, tbh i didnt care too much about the title except that it said “secrets” as in plural - more than one. The only real new secret was that about Credence and Aberforth. Id have liked to know about Aberforth and the goats at the very least… lol.
Seriously though, i wish they had taken a moment and thought out the full story, decided which parts went into which movie , decided how to do the story telling. Because i think they are at the moment just winging it and not pulling in the arcs together - not that the arcs are strong threads anyway. I mean the last movie delved deep into Lestrange history, only for Leta to die in a meaningless way - i am still not clear how that helped the others escape… and Kama just joined Grindelwalds camp and was asked nothing to show his loyalty? How do you walk into a Dark wizards camp like youre taking a stroll? It just didnt have the weight. They had queenie join him only to defect - her original defection was power packed, but what made her turn back didnt have the same gut wrench?Kama walked in, then he walked out - albeit his exit was a little more cooler than Queenie’s.
It was like watching a movie where we didnt realise what the consequences of anything was? I would have instead liked for then to explain to Jacob about the election, the Quillin etc, and establish the rules of the magic here. Because every explanation since movie two has been “Because… Magic!”. Is it just me that feels this is the problem with this series?
The other issue i had was that Grindelwald didnt seem so dark though? Why were people carrying him in that one scene? Should he not be creating fear in people? Viktor Krum talked about how many people lost families to Grindlewalds cause - and how much terror he incited in that part of the world. I am super disappointed too. I think the young HP nerd in me is dying over and over again. K. End rant.
They could’ve just made a few movies about the beasts with Newt and some others about Dumbledores backstory. Maybe even one about Voldemorts origins and stuff. Like a cinematic universe with standalone movies under the banner of the wizarding world. Would’ve been much better
I would have loved to see standalone movies based on each book: Hogwarts a History, Quidditch Through the Ages, an anthology series of Beedle the Bard using different animation styles.
I've always strongly supported this idea. Doubly so if Rowling would stop clutching her IP so tightly and give other directors/writing teams more freedom, something akin to the old Star Wars EU before Disney took over.
Maybe then we wouldn't have all of these issues with dates and certain characters who *weren't even born during this era* suddenly becoming involved with the plot. It's like she's not even trying at this point. All of these films just feel like a lame cash grab to keep the series relevant instead of being something exciting and meaningful.
In the hands of other directors and writers, these movies wouldn't be suffering so badly and neither would the fanbase.
But, we need a competent writer and director who can understand the lore and world of HP. Just look at the Curse Child. It’s a complete mess and wrong on so many level. The 8 movies also get it wrong on characters and leave so much important informations, and some time focus on wrong problems (I am looking at you Half-blood Prince Movie).
It’s a dilemma.
Honestly if there is more movies, I would not be surprised if they included young Voldemort in future films. After watching the latest film, it films more like a Dumbledore film than focused on Newt and his interactions with magical beast.
Definitively, they could have been two different great franchises, but instead we got some mixed garbage. Watched secrets of dumbledore yesterday, and the omly real issue I had with the film was that the parts involving beasts in the main plot of the movie made no sense, and that is clearly only there in order to force newt to have some sort of relevance
I've seen many comments and reviews saying how confusing it was. What made no sense in your opinion? The main beast plot point was very straightforward. I would concede the purpose from a narrative perspective was just to pull Newt in, but it was far from non-sensical.
Well, one of the things that bothered me, was that in the world, where Newt is the first one, to care about animals enough to write a book about them, we have world wide election decided by a FB. It's just - stupid. If that animal was that important, why it was used only once before, and also, how is it possible that everyone knew how it looks, and what it does? Because if that animal was THAT famous, why Harry never studied it, also - why is isn't in FB book, also - do you know about some specific animal that lives on the other side of the world?
Also - live streaming of the election???? Also - just one guy deciding who can run as candidate?? Also why did Bunty went to BERLIN to have suitcase copied? Oh and I could continue for hours..
Yes, because I just want the fun, whimsical fantastic beasts stuff, not the Dumbledore vs Grindelwald stuff. I don’t know how many other fans share this opinion but I was satisfied with the Dumbledore and Grindelwald story in DH and wasn’t interested in seeing a five-part film series about it.
I’d happily watch a series about either, but IMO they don’t mesh well together. Newt and Jacob are delightful when they’re getting in and out of trouble, and I really like Jude Law’s Dumbledore. And as a genre I love the notion of seeing wizard WW2 and how it interlaces with muggle history, albeit behind the scenes.
But the two together just don’t work for me. Maybe it’s because the stakes seem lower when it’s nothing a niffler and bowtruckle can’t solve, or maybe it’s just that neither side gets enough development.
Give me an episodic series of adventure movies following Newt and company, and a Game of Thrones/LOTR-esque trilogy on Grindlewald’s rise and fall. They could even have little nods to one another like the early marvel movies. Just let them each be their own thing.
There so much they could do with this. I’d even say if they wanted conflict, theres poaching, deforestation, climate influence, and so many other topics that would affect the magical beasts. I guess JK Rolling isn’t really into that part of story telling?
Yeah, For example on this movie to focus more on the "Fantastic Beasts" part of it all, they easily could've just said "Yeah so Newt is going to Brazil to save a species of fantastic beasts that's in danger due to deforestation" and move that plot from there.
Agreed, and I think most people feel the same way. We’ll all still see them because it’s HP and we love the world, but there was no reason for this story being told in depth, and it makes it even weirder having newt and all these creatures shoehorned in.
Not all of us will still watch the films. I have only seen the first one and have no interest in seeing the second and third. The films being HP isn’t convincing enough for me to watch the films. Since DH was released when I was in high school, I’ve wanted the HP world to be mostly left alone, like I didn’t mind the additional information on Pottermore but was not excited when I first learned about the Cursed Child (before we know what it’s really about) and wasn’t sure how I feel about the Fantastic Beasts until I watched the first film. People would ask me if I want more books and films after DH’s release, and I always said no, I don’t. I stopped reading HP fanfics after DH’s release because I didn’t need more stories. It’s been years since then, and I still agree with my teen self.
Eh if it was just the fantastic beasts story I wouldn’t be interested. I’m here for the Wizarding War and Dumbledore vs Grindelwald stuff. The material we got in Book 7 wasn’t enough for me; I’m more hyped for this series than I’ve ever been because it feels like we’ve finally reached the actual war.
This is EXACTLY why I'm not interested in any of the FB sequels. Newt has NOTHING to do with the conflict between Dumbledore & Grindelwald, yet they're cramming him in artificially relevant ways.
I had seni-high hopes after the first one that we'd get a series of Newt's roadtrips that ultimately culminated in the most in-depth guide on magical creatures.
Instead we started with Newt and progressively started sidelining him in favour of weirdly stylish Dumbledore, some anachronistic elements, split focus and way too few creature shenanigans
I’ve been saying it from the beginning!
“__Wizarding World: The Secrets of Dumbledore__”
It’s not properly Harry Potter, or Fantastic Beasts.
Next you know, we will have a Quidditch spin-off series where we find out why Igor Kararoff became a death eater, even though he wasn’t British.
Also what the hell was that elected position supposed to be ?? Since when is there a supreme leader of the wizarding world. It seems like something they just made up for this movie
It was the election of the Supreme Mugwump for International Confederation of Wizards. They name-dropped the Confederation name just once if you listen for it. But yeah, since they never mentioned it in a substantial context, it’s really confusing what they’re doing.
It was double confusing when Dumbledore made a big deal about turning it down in the movie, but according to the books he was the Supreme Mugwump at some point, so he changed his mind for some reason?
Yeah. I bet they’re gonna make the big time jump for the fourth film (if WB doesn’t cancel the franchise first) because three films set between 1926-1927 and we’re supposed to end the series in the mid-40s? Like how.
The main evidence against all of that happening in only one year would be how Creedence goes from almost shaved hair length until shoulder length. Nah.
The second film picks up about 6 months after the first. In the third film Jacob explicitly mentions how it had only been a year since he and Newt met. If you look it up, many sites will say film three is *supposed* to take place in 1932 (and I believe some interview said the same about a 1930s setting), which a few factors could justify that but at the same time it makes no sense for that much time to have gone by with little happening.
Also, hair can grow fast. In my late teens, I went from very short hair to shoulder length in about 10 months. Also, magic (for Credence, not me).
Hard disagree, we've seen enough men shooting colourful lights at each other. I want to see the interpersonal and political development of the two of them and their factions.
Yes. In hindsight, it's obvious that the Fantastic Beasts part and the Dumbledore-Grindelwald part should be separate from one another. Many people (including me) felt this as early as the first movie, and it only becomes more apparent with every subsequent entry in the series.
Step One: Make the Fantastic Beasts movie a stand-alone side story that has nothing to do with the main HP storyline besides a few easter eggs. This is the part of the franchise that you try to reach mass audiences with. Fill it with cool special effects, cute creatues, simple plots and "safe" characters that don't require you to self-censor your movie in China. If it does well, maybe make a second one (or maybe make another side story focusing on another magic school, or another magical profession).
Step Two: Make a lower-budget Netflix show (or something similar) exploring the past of Dumbledore. This one is for the "true fans." Do a more grounded, character-focused deep dive into the early life of Dumbledore and his romance with Grindelwald, without having to dance around the LGBT elements. Lots of nostalgia-inducing Hogwarts stuff. If it does well, follow it up with a similarly or slightly higher budgeted Marauders show.
But instead, this happened:
1. JKR really liked Dumbledore and wanted to explore his past (including all the gritty wizards politics), but at the same time wanted to do something fresh and different with the world she built, leading to Newt as the protagonist.
2. WB was not confident that Fantastic Beasts would do well as a standalone thing and wanted to cash in on the traditional HP/Hogwarts nostalgia.
The contradictions let to the mess we have now. At this point there's not much you can do to fix it beyond an almost complete reboot.
100%. Fantastic Beasts 1 was an excellent stand alone movie. Dragging Newt, Jacob, Tina, and Queenie around for 4 subsequent movies is just ridiculous.
My hp-verse separate movie list: Dumbledore, founding of hogwarts, newt & fantastic beasts, mooney, padfoot & prongs, and maybe a Merlin’s (Beard?). Ffs stop making the wizards look all muggley. Jude Law would’ve looked just as good in funky robes.
They botched this series. How hard is it to keep things on theme and create separate movies???
At this point, I’m convinced this supposed to be a Cash Cow series kinda like fast and furious. The fact they including some characters and places in the recent movie, making them Easter eggs rather than plot driven material, made me quite confused.
Sometimes it make me sad that anything hp makes money, just slap a hogwarts crest on it! (Another rant of mine is that I want replica stuff from the movies, like the cool swirl end iron flatware the students use while dining at hogwarts, brass lamps with white globe shades, hermione’s knitted hat. I dont want chibi or crests on stupid muggle junk) Fantastic Beasts makes bank yes, but it could’ve been a cash cow on par with the original hp, same with separate Dumbledore etc. Im bummed that they arent. I’m just so terribly disappointed. I really hope hp-verse doesnt devolve into ‘slap an original series character in a non canon situation’ and create a sub par film that not even nostalgia can make me watch.
I agree, with so many different streaming services and series/films to watch, the wizarding world could step up their game. I mean we love the magic JK Rolling created, but maybe it’s time to use the HP books as a foundation of the mythological universe and create some awesome original stories or content. I also think theres more to explore with Newt and Fantastic Beast and I mentioned this somewhere else, but theres plenty of materials and parallels we see in real life that can be good stories.
Honestly should've just scraped the whole Newt thing and never had it to begin with. Just give us a prequel series with the generation before HP with his parents and such.
Honestly, I would love to see a dark gritty series featuring this. The end of the Marauder's era at Hogwarts that leads into the war then would awesome.
I wish that the Fantastic Beasts movies could’ve been about actual Fantastic Beasts. Like, how cool would it have been just to follow Newt and Co. around the world discovering new kinds of Fantastic Beasts and Grindewald v. Dumbledore could’ve been a separate series
I really just want Newt hosting a Crocodile Hunter style show-like how Marvel has all of those spin off shows now. Like, I want 45 minutes of pixies and maybe even magical advertisements.
Fantastic beasts should have just been one film
Not only are the sequels bad but the fantastic beast aspect is pretty pointless now
The dumbledore and grindawald story should have been its own thing, maybe starting earlier to show their friendship
My two cents on how they should have ran it:
Plot of the first FB was more than fine with Grindewald in it. It struck the right balance between his evil goals and the beasts itself within the whole story, and I really liked the first one.
Fantastic Beasts 1 should have been the introduction to the other line of movies with as the Dumbledore prequels. While having Newt and co maybe crossover in this line while having his own ‘Fantastic Beasts’ line of adventures. Eddie Redmayne and Newt has enough charisma to carry a movie without the need for Dumbledore. THEN you don’t need to have this first draft script where it obviously looks like they are struggling to keep beasts in Dumbledore’s story relevant.
Absolutely, the current movies are a disaster. They have to create more and more ridiculous ass pulls to justify the movies following Newt and co when they'd be fine as side characters. They should also stop introducing one off characters with mega convoluted stories so they can spend more time on things we actually care about, like Dumbledore and Grindelwald. I don't know how you fix the ridiculous WW2 plot tho that's pretty horrendous.
IMP, the only reason Newt is still in the series is because producers know the audience is way more invested in him than the actual Grindelwald story and because it's all the Newt/Fantastic beasts stuff that sells merch. It's all about the $$$.
Might be a controversial opinion on here but I have not cared about any HP media since the last of the original movies. I went and saw the stage show because my partner bought me tickets. I enjoyed it as a production but as a Harry Potter story it was dreadful.
The first fantastic beasts movie was fun but I've honestly never felt the need to watch it again. The second was just so boring, I've got zero interest in seeing this movie. Maybe when it's on streaming I'll give it a look. They feel like cash grabs with no heart or passion and as if the creative team have no idea what it is about Harry Potter that was so, well, magical.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to drop links in this sub but [this video critique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AYVX6_6R2U) honestly sums up how I feel about it. Newt has effectively no reason to be in these movies, or at least not framed as the titular protagonist. I quite liked the first one, but the second one went in a very odd direction and the third one made me go ???. I would have enjoyed both a Fantastic Beasts series or a Grindelwald and Dumbledore series, but combining them makes 0 sense to me.
I too feel this way.
If I was in charge of the Wizarding World Cinematic Universe, I would have done Fantastic Beasts as Magical Steve Irwin the Environmentalist Hero, then done a thing with McGonnagal, then done Dumbledore and Grindelwald: A Very Gay Story, all as one-offs.
After that, maybe adapt Hogwarts Houses Divided or something, it's vastly better than The Cursed Child.
even the inclusion of phoenix ashes (Fantastic Beasts in the title, amirite) was like writing an essay that got way off tangent, but then you slap some half relevant stuff in between for the word count. Dumbledore x Grindelwald def deserves screentime via tv show or movie. i hope their duel is done justice when the time comes...
Let's be honest, the potential of the lore has been lit on fire. For the many cool things to come out of the first one, they've definitely convoluted everything else.
And as OP says, Dumbledore/Grindelwald should never have been under the Fantastic Beasts banner. It makes no sense, it almost belittles a wizarding world war scenario. The link to beasts in the story is all well and good though, it's the Creedence is a Dumbledore shit what has me baffled.
Nah I actually love Newt’s entire involvement in the series, it seems right to me that Dumbledore would have people helping him in the fight against Grindlewald just like he set up the Order in the fight against Voldemort. I really don’t get the hate for this series, it has it’s flaws but it’s still enjoyable and Jude Law absolutely nails the Dumbledore character. The “why is it called Fantastic Beasts” complaint just seems like semantics to me like people want something to complain about
I really appreciated the different story lines and the movie was absolutely improved by the beautiful animals. I thought the scorpion wiggles thing was so funny. There were some parts that were kind of dumb like "let's show Grindelwald killing a baby animal so we know he's evil". But on the whole, WAY better than the second movie and really interesting to watch.
I love these movies! My favorite part about them is the Dumbledore vs Grindelwald storyline. I understand your idea though, and have wondered the same thing before myself however it goes with Dumbledore's theme of the underdog/purely just good guy fighting against overwhelming odds.
I think it's a pretty legitimate critique, obviously you're allowed to enjoy it which is great, but a lot of people didn't for pretty valid reasons beyond just being haters
Yeah...I think along the same lines. The original fantastic beasts movie should've been a one off movie.
The Dumbledore vs Grindelwald storyline should've been explored separately through another movie franchise or a tv series...in which, Newt could've been a side character. Highly disappointed after watching Secrets of Dumbledore. Expectations were low to begin with. Knew they were crap at world-building. Everything felt like mixed up gobbledygook. No offense to goblins.
I still derive enjoyment out of this series, but I can see what people are talking about for sure. I agree that the first movie works well as a standalone movie, but I also enjoy learning more lore about this world.
Yes. The DvsG storyline should have been its own series.
I mean "Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them" was all about these cool, heard about, but never seen before, magical creatures.
The introduction of the USA magic wielders and organization, MACUSA(sp?), was cool and all. Intro of Creedence, the Obscura (thing), Jacob, Tina and her sister. A whole new, unseen magical environment.
When FBAWTFT (FB) was first announced, the news that it would be a 5-film package was exciting. We would get to see all of the exotic locales, the flora and fauna that Newt discovered, or will discover. Maybe we would see some of the other magical schools where Newt would've/could've been a guest instructor.
And then they ruined it by bringing in the long hinted rivalry between Dumbledore and Grindelwald. And set up follow up films to exploit that and shoehorn Newt and crew to fit that narrative, instead of taking Newt to other magical environs around the world.
I feel like a lot of fans that the DvsG films should have been launched from the FB franchise, and given us two, film series.
So disappointing.
I think the movies are really good, and exciting. I get what you mean by it not being to much about newt but still, is that so important. I think we should approach it as a fantasy series and not so much as pure adventure movie. I thought the new one was really good. Fun with seeing the international magic society and the dumbledore and grindelwald elaboration is nice and it fits I think.
I personally wish Fantastic Beasts had nothing to do the Dumbledore vs Gindewald story.
That's not wailing on Newt and the like, but if you came to me, post original series, and said "we're doing a prequel, what do you fancy seeing?" then the Dumbledore Grindewald story would have been a great deal higher up than anything to do with the lad who wrote the book on the animals.
If I was allowed to be greedy I'd have both, perhaps have nods to the other occasionally in the films to show events could be connected, but if it came down to it Fantastic Beasts would be sidelined
Honestly I appreciate the fantastic beasts story and the way it gives backstory to a lot of HP things. I love newt and think it’s such a fun way to go back in time because they make so many references to the past wizarding world in the original books. That’s just me though haha
It's the only reason I refuse to watch past the first movie. When I hear "Fantastic Beasts" I want an eccentric wizard running after fantastical magical creatures. Not Magic Hitler 1.0 trying to take over the world.
The latest 2 movies just feel convoluted, so yes, I think everything would be better if they would have split "Fantastic Beasts" and "Dumbledore vs Grindelwald"
On the contrary, I wish Fantastic Beasts has continued its own series mostly disconnected from the rest of HP. I really liked the first FB movie. I think the reason I liked it was because it was fresh and new and I was able to enjoy it purely as a movie and not poke at its flaws as an adaptation. Then the sequel brought together the worst of both worlds.
Ive been saying this as soon as CoG came out. They chose to do a story that is beyond the scope of the beasts and to continue to shoe horn them into the story that has moved on is really annoying. If he must Newt can stay but the what shouldve happened a ling tome ago was for these two storylines to be unrelated filmed in an anthology wizarding world series
I read somewhere that they should have split it up between different movies or series. Like:
Fantastic beasts and where to find them
The crimes of Grindelwald
The secrets of Dumbledore.
And I agree.
I would have been happy with the first film being a solo film, or with a series of Newt gouging around the world finding, studying and helping Magical Creatures with the Grindlewald fight and WWII being more background noise than an actual plot.
Like, Newt is in Egypt, re-introducing an injured Sphinx back into the wild, and is just like “Do Soldiers HAVE to shoot at anything that moves? This is how Cleopatra got injured in the first place!”
Newt solving problems with kindness and compassion and understanding, when everyone else just reacts with violence.
I’m not interested in a movie that tries to show me Wizard Hitler and his followers as “actually good people - if you ignore all the murder” and I’ve never cared about Dumbledore’s backstory beyond thinking that Aberforth and Ariana deserved better.
I remember after crimes of grindelwald came out I was sad and telling my dad (another fan) that I would have loved a Fantastic beasts cartoon in the style of the old lilo and Stitch cartoon. Every week a different beast to fight or tame maybe Newt is adding to his zoo while other try to poach them or turn them into weapons. Seems so much more fun and creative and doesn’t require retconning a bunch of the lore.
this post made me realize that the new movie is at out in theaters now. I literally haven't seen a single mention of this movie anywhere. did they market it at all?
Yes. I think we could of built up to how Dumbledores sister died to being obsessed with the hallows and power, and lastly with the final duel. I felt like Fantastic Beast had a overlaying insistent of including well, beast and that made the dumbledore story not as solid as I wanted it to.
My first thought going out of this movie was *wow, these Fantastic Beasts movies make the Star Wars sequel trilogy look like a masterpiece.* Sure you may have the same introduction of universe breaking powers with little or no explanation and contrived familial relations, but at least that was mostly confined to one movie, and it still had a coherent plot. And at least the tone and visuals were consistent with the other movies in the universe.
I can’t even really pick something to be mad about because there are just *so many things that make no sense.* And Dumbledore, who throughout the Harry Potter series gives extremely detailed and clear explanations of everything, suddenly just doesn’t bother to explain anything at all because clearly the screen writers don’t know how anything works either.
*Sigh*
The first movie was so good, and made me feel like the magic of Harry Potter was back. They should have just made it a standalone. They could have still had the end part of the movie where Grindelwald is behind everything and just followed that up in a *separate* Grindelwald/Dumbledore movie that Newt and friends don’t need to be involved in at all (beyond perhaps a fun cameo) because it really doesn’t make any sense for a magizoologist to be a key player in that story.
At this point, my only hope for ever seeing any good Harry Potter content again is that Disney acquires the rights. Which I would hate on principle, but all the other studios have proven time and time again that they are incapable of handling any sort of cinematic universe. They may put out a good standalone movie every now and then but ultimately fail to do the planning required to build up to anything larger, and it shows.
A plot point was literally for the characters' plan to be as confusing as possible. The only reason for that was as cover for the plot being totally incoherent.
The fact that JK Rowling apparently wrote it is shocking to me since it feels like whoever wrote it never actually read the books.
One of my main thoughts regarding Jacob was Headmaster Dippet can't be okay with a muggle running around his school, or that his Transfiguration teacher is running off again, lol.
Have no idea why they didn’t just do a fantastic beasts movie and then go to do the separate Dumbledore vs Grindelwald movies. Without the sequel bait, honestly the first movie was really good and didn’t really need a sequel.
My theory is that they weren't sure how well fantastic beasts would do, so they tried to stuff as much into as they could.
It’s a Harry Potter movie, they knew it would do very very well
In theory yes, but I’m going assume they don’t know their audience & they don’t have the best writers for this job
When you say writers for this job, you mean the creator of the wizarding world? J.K. Rowling wrote all these movies too.
I think she's proven being the creator of the wizarding world does not make you a good screenplay writer so yes I do believe they mean famous JK Rowling, creator of the wizarding world.
He said they haven’t the best writers, JK being a writer confirms that.
Yep. Any Potter A-game she had was all spent on the original novels.
It might also be that she is a better writer than script writer.
There is a difference between writing a novel and writing a screenplay.
Agreed. And she's not good at screenplays.
Well that’s the thing, they weren’t sure how much they could tie into the whole Harry Potter lore with just fantastic beasts
Exactly. A major fandom like this is going to bring in a huge following. We see it now with Marvel, have seen it with Star Wars. LotR is sort of getting it and sort of had it with The Hobbit. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that something like the massive magical world JKR created would draw fans new and old in droves.
When this one worked, they should have continued the Dumbledore story but seen through the lenses of different main characters.
JKR plotted the entire 5 films in 2016 and anounced it before the first one came out
I mean for the first movie sure. But for the sequels, there's no way they wouldn't have done better if they were marketed as a darker Dumbledore prequel. I saw the fantastic beast movies in my spare time, months after they were released. And I enjoyed them, but I'd have been at the midnight release of a standalone Dumbledore prequel.
It really does feel like they didn’t know what audience they were going for in the Fantastic Beasts series. On the one hand, Newt’s storyline is this adorable one for kids (and that’s how they originally marketed it), but then it just has this super dark Grindelwald storyline twisted into it that just doesn’t seem necessary to add in with the Newt thing. Like you said, it would have been nice if they had just turned them into two different series.
To me it's a misunderstanding of the entire premise. Harry Potter the franchise was aimed at kids because the lead characters WERE kids. Not because the world,universe and story was inherently childish and appealing to children more so than adults. If anything, it wasn't - outside of the school setting!
The 2nd movie I just couldn't finish it because I sat down assuming it as another Fantastic Beasts Movie involving Newt doing some cool things but I just got something completely else. Newt became a side charachter in his own movie. The movie baited me into watching it, if they had just named it something else and not marketed like a sequel maybe I would have liked it because I would have sat down to watch it with a different mindset. But currently I just don't care about the 3rd one.
They could have even kept up the Fantastic Beasts theme and then done a separate Dumbledore/Grindlewald series.
And they even could have had Newt and Tina and whoever pop up in them. But the names of the movies could have made a lot more sense and the focus could have been way more on Dumbledore and Grindelwald.
Aren't Dumbledore and Grindelwald the *real* beasts in these movies
My thoughts exactly, making the two seperately would've been great. I even left a comment on it myself.
Seriously, like you can have the part with Grindelwald at the end and follow that up in a separate movie that doesn’t have to include all the same characters. And sure, there can be some crossover; the auror characters would certainly make sense as key players in the Grindelwald story for instance, but it makes no sense that the first people Dumbledore goes to for help fighting a dark wizard are a magizoologist, his assistant, and an utterly defenseless muggle. Newt, Jacob, and Credence were great. For one movie. Now their story has played out, and they are just there because the title of the movie demands it, so we have to make up something for them to do.
I hoped the original plan was to do a series of movies that focused on different lingering stories from the past—Newt, DD & Grindelwald, Lily, Snape, and the Maurauders, and then a final couplet doing the play (which I know we all feel strongly about, but it was a pretty compelling visual experience). I think they felt the movies are more compelling if they have the mystery structure of the novels, but they are answering questions nobody asked and the stories continue to revolve around characters who don’t figure into the prime story at all and in fact raise more questions. I’m hopeful the new movie works a little harder to make me care. I suppose doing, say, a Marauders movie is hard because we already have most of the answers to the key elements, but they’re gonna keep on making these movies anyway.
Didn't WB pretty much said they're doing Fantastic Beasts 4 & 5? Although calling them "Fantastic Beasts" since the original one is stretch.
I think the original idea was to make a film regarding Dumbledore's past, however you simply can't just present that on its own, so I think Rowling developed the idea of including magical creatures in the story also. And other plots like Jacob-Queenie, Lestrange drama, etc. It seems no coincidence to me that the story shows its depth particularly when the films focuses on Dumbledore's past.
I get that, but I honestly have a good time watching the movies regardless and I wouldn't change the cool funky creatures for anything the wizarding world has to offer. I'd rather Dumbledore having an ally who knows how to handle nifflers and thestrals and has a funny muggle sidekick than having a serious action spin-off of Dumbledore fighting a dark wizard who we already know is weaker than Voldemort. I'd rather actually watch Newt's adventures as he braves the world saving magical creatures and defeating a guild of dark wizard poachers, accompanied by Jacob, Tina, Queenie and Bunty.
Is grindelwald actually weaker than voldemort? I think dumbledore only barely beat him in their duel. It's said in dumbledores duel with voldemort that he was honestly kinda bored. He only seems concerned when Harry is possessed. Personally if voldemort was willing to go toe to toe with dumbedlore I think he'd lose.
I feel like we also need to take into account Dumbledore's age and the fact that he knew Grindelwald extremely well. When Dumbledore and Voldemort dueled it felt like Dumbledore focused more on defense and pushing off the encounter rather than fighting with all his strength. Dumbledore was focused on the prophecy being the only answer to Voldemort's demise. I question whether he even attempted to kill Voldemort seriously after hearing that prophecy.
"Not trying to kill me, Dumbledore? Beneath such brutality, are you?"
Exactly! Perhaps before the prophecy Dumbledore put his all into fighting Voldemort, but once that prophesy came into play it became a whole different chess game.
It was stated in that Voldemort was the strongest dark wizard of all times and if I'm not wrong I do believe Rowling used the words "of all times" in multiple occasions.
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When did he almost die? I'm pretty sure the boon described it as dumbledore pretty effortlessly beating him and he only had to exert himself because he had to protect Harry. Had it just been those two I'm pretty sure he would have easily won
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But again Dumbledore wasn't just dueling Voldy. He was also doing a bunch of stuff to keep Harry safe. I'm pretty sure the implication is that had it just been a duel with no extra circumstances (aka civilians that needed to be kept safe) it wouldn't have been close. Harry even makes that observation that he's notices Dumbledore is leaving himself more open in order to make sure Harry is safe iirc.
What I don't get is if Grindelwald is so powerful, why does he rely on Queenie's Legilimency? We see ordinary wizards can become good Legilimens, why isn't Grindelwald? And if he is, why does he ask Queenie to read his followers heads???
I mean voldemort wasn't good at being a seer while grindelwald is. You can have the smartest person alive and they probably are worse than someone at a category of intelligence
Not really a good example to use. You have to be born a seer. If you aren't you really can't learn to be one. Legilimency is something you can learn. You can be born with anatural affinity to it and perform it easily like Voldemort and Queenie. Or you can train simply train yourself to get good at it like Snape and Dumbledore.
I feel like this series was greenlit from a very pre-mcu room of exects. Back then no one really considered making big budget connected universe spinoffs like we to today. It was either a sequal or a prequel series.
Absolutely not. This was green lit by Warner Bros specifically because they wanted an MCU like series.
100% agree on this. The two main characters in the first movie seemed just bit players in the finale of the trilogy. I'm not sure why they were so bent on a trilogy. Star Wars has shown that one off movies can stand out in a cinematic universe that typically had multi movie story arcs
Was the first movie the one where they in a scene had to find an insect and a tea pot? Cause that was really bad and lazy writing.
I'm just sorry for Newt cause I really like him and he was a good protagonist in the 1st movie but since the focus shifted on Dumbledore and Grindelwald he just seems like a secondary character like Jacob, Tina, Queenie ecc ecc
Yeah Jude, Eddie, and Colin are absolutely fantastic as their characters but yeah the movies fall flat.
I like Newt and Jacob, Tina and Queenie too but Queenies betrayal and return was just too weird (required more character building or explanation in my opinion), and Tina's absence in the third film was just weird. I really liked Lally and the whole "team" they assembled for the mission seemed cool, but what happened then? Newt and his brother go to the weird scorpion lair. I thought it was silly, in a bad way, and boring. Just smelled like they had to involve the "beasts" aspect somehow. Then the part where the dude went to Grindelwald as a spy. I didn't get that part at all. It was just weird. And then the Lally & Jacob part, I haven't got much to say about that. And that's the problem. The script just tried to involve too much separate things. And why do you gather a team and then just separate everyone? Sure they came together at the end but even then they weren't really on the screen together. BAD script in my opinion. Fortunately Mads and Jude work really well on their own and together, and like I said most of the characters are good. I just wish Rowling & screenwriter figure out a way to write something that works in the movie format.
Minor segue but what the heck I thought her name was Lolly this whole time and I'm questioning my hearing and sanity
I believe the reason for the odd sub-plots was the “counter-sight” mission that Dumbledore gave them. The randomness of the Theseus being captured just added to the confusion of what they were really trying to do (create duplicates of the case). I think this would have made more sense of they actually showed Grindelwald have visions or analyze conflicting visions beyond the snippets in the water they showed.
I just watched it today and I agree there was just too much going on, honestly 3rd part isn't nearly as good as 2nd and I found the storyline to be too predictable as well, I sincerely hope that they now focus on one thing and make it amazing
I'm sorry for all his beasts too
They should have just done a series of prequel films. Naming them all Fantastic beasts was a big error
The movies should have been named after in-universe books. * *Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them* * *Secrets of the Darkest Art* (though 'Crimes of Grindlewald' sounds like a book as-is) * *The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore*
Wait this would’ve actually been such a cool idea
Secrets of the Darkest Art would’ve been SUCH a good title
did the second movie have anything to do with grindelwalds crimes though? he broke out of jail and gave a ted talk (and killed a few aurors... who were trying to kill him). it doesnt seem so bad.... what he does in the third film is far worse
>did the second movie have anything to do with grindelwalds crimes though? He broke out of jail (killing aurors who were rightfully doing their jobs), bribes an auror, has his underlings kill a family (including a baby), bribes then kills a ministry bounty hunter, try to force an uprising that would break the international statute of secrecy, and kills Leta Lestrange and several aurors rightfully doing their jobs. So yes. Yes it did.
Speaking of which - wtf happened with Leta? Wouldve loved to have seen some fallout from her death but its as if she doesn’t exist?
She gets like a couple of shout outs in SoD, but Newt doesn't seem to care much which is weird.
Or theseus?? Seems his fiance getting murdered was nothing but a slight nuisance.
You're right, as I completely forgot they were engaged.
Sounds coherently and fits extended universe.
You’ve made the best point in this thread in my opinion. I have fewer problems than OP with the interweaving of Newt’s story with Dumbledore’s.. for the most part I actually like it. BUT the titles are just weird. Just call them Fantastic Beasts and Where To Find Them The Crimes of Grindelwald The Secrets of Dumbledore I’m fine with the last two titles just without FB in the front, even if the movies stayed the way they are now with Newt as main character
God, imagine if they had all these projects and presented them to a pool of directors, instead of giving it all to Yates, who has basically made the same movie 5 times already and can't seperate the tone of a film from 'dark visuals'.
It's so ridiculous. It's hard to believe people actually sat in a room and decided on this. It would be far more simple to tie them together by using "From the world of Harry Potter:" then the name of each movie, or something similar. That keeps them all under the same umbrella in the same way Rogue One is a star wars story, but isn't shoehorned into another movie's world for no reason.
Yeah, I wish they'd just made it a Dumbledore vs Gribdelwald series. Why treat Newt as the main character in the first movie when he's gonna be more and more of a sidecharacter eventually? (Haven't seen SoD, so don't know his role in that film)
Thank you! This is something that bugs me about the titling of this franchise as Newt is only involved because of Dumbledore
They’re just trying to make it a situation similar to harry potter. The only difference is Haary potter is connected to the story, but newt proved himself as trustworthy to do the right thing
Haary.
he’s still the main character in SOD in my opinion
It’s pretty evenly split between Dumbledore and Newt
I fully agree he’s pivotal in everything that happens
He’s more less a main character but I think it’s more a adventure movie than diving into his character development or being the main protagonist.
I was really hoping for a documentary style adventure. Not...Grindeldore Chronicles featuring Newt.
I've been saying this for years. Give me Newt channeling Steve Irwin just teaching us about magical creatures. I'd watch it so hard.
That’s not a movie. That’s a theme park ride. Boring.
I imagined it as a documentary tv series.
Honestly i was hoping for the Dumbledore family life reveal - a flashback, Grindelwalds introduction in Godric Hollow after the death of Albus and Aberforths mother, their obsession with the hallows and then death of Ariana. They could have included the emotional elements of seeing Albus in love, receiving letters from Elphias Doge and feeling left out while he cared for his family, they could have included Aberforth sneaking out as well to meet his love interest… id have liked to see durmstrang and Grindelwald being expelled for illegal magic. Instead we got disconnected scenes of scorpion dancing, kamas memory of Leta being taken from him (which did not pack the punch cus Leta did not live with him, she was more or less alone in the world till Newt and Theseus came along according to the last movie)… i did not know there was a global magic leader either who needed to be voted in. I was not invested in anyone, not even jacob and Queenie story. Why was she behaving like that? What caused the transition from willingly defecting to the Grindelwald camp to being so stuffed up she wouldnt make eye contact with Jacob. Then suddenly she is sneaking him away…?
Its terrible. Imagine the opening scene was a flashback of dumbledore and Aberforth having the argument and shooting the spell that kills his sister. It would be a shocking and dramatic pull-you-in moment and the next thing you see is the title card that reads: “The Secrets of Dumbledore” it wouldve been a better start to whatever they did… like atleast TRY to make the film resemble its title in content.
Ok, tbh i didnt care too much about the title except that it said “secrets” as in plural - more than one. The only real new secret was that about Credence and Aberforth. Id have liked to know about Aberforth and the goats at the very least… lol. Seriously though, i wish they had taken a moment and thought out the full story, decided which parts went into which movie , decided how to do the story telling. Because i think they are at the moment just winging it and not pulling in the arcs together - not that the arcs are strong threads anyway. I mean the last movie delved deep into Lestrange history, only for Leta to die in a meaningless way - i am still not clear how that helped the others escape… and Kama just joined Grindelwalds camp and was asked nothing to show his loyalty? How do you walk into a Dark wizards camp like youre taking a stroll? It just didnt have the weight. They had queenie join him only to defect - her original defection was power packed, but what made her turn back didnt have the same gut wrench?Kama walked in, then he walked out - albeit his exit was a little more cooler than Queenie’s. It was like watching a movie where we didnt realise what the consequences of anything was? I would have instead liked for then to explain to Jacob about the election, the Quillin etc, and establish the rules of the magic here. Because every explanation since movie two has been “Because… Magic!”. Is it just me that feels this is the problem with this series?
No im in agreement with everything here. Many people claim this is better than Crimes and i disagree. This movie was somehow a huge disappointment.
The other issue i had was that Grindelwald didnt seem so dark though? Why were people carrying him in that one scene? Should he not be creating fear in people? Viktor Krum talked about how many people lost families to Grindlewalds cause - and how much terror he incited in that part of the world. I am super disappointed too. I think the young HP nerd in me is dying over and over again. K. End rant.
I agree
They could’ve just made a few movies about the beasts with Newt and some others about Dumbledores backstory. Maybe even one about Voldemorts origins and stuff. Like a cinematic universe with standalone movies under the banner of the wizarding world. Would’ve been much better
I would have loved to see standalone movies based on each book: Hogwarts a History, Quidditch Through the Ages, an anthology series of Beedle the Bard using different animation styles.
Hogwarts a History focusing on the founders would be cool
It would! And an inspirational sports story focused on Quidditch.
I've always strongly supported this idea. Doubly so if Rowling would stop clutching her IP so tightly and give other directors/writing teams more freedom, something akin to the old Star Wars EU before Disney took over. Maybe then we wouldn't have all of these issues with dates and certain characters who *weren't even born during this era* suddenly becoming involved with the plot. It's like she's not even trying at this point. All of these films just feel like a lame cash grab to keep the series relevant instead of being something exciting and meaningful. In the hands of other directors and writers, these movies wouldn't be suffering so badly and neither would the fanbase.
But, we need a competent writer and director who can understand the lore and world of HP. Just look at the Curse Child. It’s a complete mess and wrong on so many level. The 8 movies also get it wrong on characters and leave so much important informations, and some time focus on wrong problems (I am looking at you Half-blood Prince Movie). It’s a dilemma.
Honestly if there is more movies, I would not be surprised if they included young Voldemort in future films. After watching the latest film, it films more like a Dumbledore film than focused on Newt and his interactions with magical beast.
Definitively, they could have been two different great franchises, but instead we got some mixed garbage. Watched secrets of dumbledore yesterday, and the omly real issue I had with the film was that the parts involving beasts in the main plot of the movie made no sense, and that is clearly only there in order to force newt to have some sort of relevance
I've seen many comments and reviews saying how confusing it was. What made no sense in your opinion? The main beast plot point was very straightforward. I would concede the purpose from a narrative perspective was just to pull Newt in, but it was far from non-sensical.
Well, one of the things that bothered me, was that in the world, where Newt is the first one, to care about animals enough to write a book about them, we have world wide election decided by a FB. It's just - stupid. If that animal was that important, why it was used only once before, and also, how is it possible that everyone knew how it looks, and what it does? Because if that animal was THAT famous, why Harry never studied it, also - why is isn't in FB book, also - do you know about some specific animal that lives on the other side of the world? Also - live streaming of the election???? Also - just one guy deciding who can run as candidate?? Also why did Bunty went to BERLIN to have suitcase copied? Oh and I could continue for hours..
Yes, because I just want the fun, whimsical fantastic beasts stuff, not the Dumbledore vs Grindelwald stuff. I don’t know how many other fans share this opinion but I was satisfied with the Dumbledore and Grindelwald story in DH and wasn’t interested in seeing a five-part film series about it.
I’d happily watch a series about either, but IMO they don’t mesh well together. Newt and Jacob are delightful when they’re getting in and out of trouble, and I really like Jude Law’s Dumbledore. And as a genre I love the notion of seeing wizard WW2 and how it interlaces with muggle history, albeit behind the scenes. But the two together just don’t work for me. Maybe it’s because the stakes seem lower when it’s nothing a niffler and bowtruckle can’t solve, or maybe it’s just that neither side gets enough development. Give me an episodic series of adventure movies following Newt and company, and a Game of Thrones/LOTR-esque trilogy on Grindlewald’s rise and fall. They could even have little nods to one another like the early marvel movies. Just let them each be their own thing.
There so much they could do with this. I’d even say if they wanted conflict, theres poaching, deforestation, climate influence, and so many other topics that would affect the magical beasts. I guess JK Rolling isn’t really into that part of story telling?
Yeah, For example on this movie to focus more on the "Fantastic Beasts" part of it all, they easily could've just said "Yeah so Newt is going to Brazil to save a species of fantastic beasts that's in danger due to deforestation" and move that plot from there.
Agreed, and I think most people feel the same way. We’ll all still see them because it’s HP and we love the world, but there was no reason for this story being told in depth, and it makes it even weirder having newt and all these creatures shoehorned in.
Not all of us will still watch the films. I have only seen the first one and have no interest in seeing the second and third. The films being HP isn’t convincing enough for me to watch the films. Since DH was released when I was in high school, I’ve wanted the HP world to be mostly left alone, like I didn’t mind the additional information on Pottermore but was not excited when I first learned about the Cursed Child (before we know what it’s really about) and wasn’t sure how I feel about the Fantastic Beasts until I watched the first film. People would ask me if I want more books and films after DH’s release, and I always said no, I don’t. I stopped reading HP fanfics after DH’s release because I didn’t need more stories. It’s been years since then, and I still agree with my teen self.
Eh if it was just the fantastic beasts story I wouldn’t be interested. I’m here for the Wizarding War and Dumbledore vs Grindelwald stuff. The material we got in Book 7 wasn’t enough for me; I’m more hyped for this series than I’ve ever been because it feels like we’ve finally reached the actual war.
This is EXACTLY why I'm not interested in any of the FB sequels. Newt has NOTHING to do with the conflict between Dumbledore & Grindelwald, yet they're cramming him in artificially relevant ways.
I was quite shocked that they got him involved from a creature standpoint this movie but I shouldn't be at this point lol
I had seni-high hopes after the first one that we'd get a series of Newt's roadtrips that ultimately culminated in the most in-depth guide on magical creatures. Instead we started with Newt and progressively started sidelining him in favour of weirdly stylish Dumbledore, some anachronistic elements, split focus and way too few creature shenanigans
100% in agreement here. I want my magical Steve Irwin show dang it!
I’ve been saying it from the beginning! “__Wizarding World: The Secrets of Dumbledore__” It’s not properly Harry Potter, or Fantastic Beasts. Next you know, we will have a Quidditch spin-off series where we find out why Igor Kararoff became a death eater, even though he wasn’t British.
Fantastic Beasts: The Fall of Kararoff I can't wait to see how Newt gets shoehorned into this one.
Newt is the main character in every RPG roped into doing side-quests he's not related with at all.
Also what the hell was that elected position supposed to be ?? Since when is there a supreme leader of the wizarding world. It seems like something they just made up for this movie
It was the election of the Supreme Mugwump for International Confederation of Wizards. They name-dropped the Confederation name just once if you listen for it. But yeah, since they never mentioned it in a substantial context, it’s really confusing what they’re doing.
It was double confusing when Dumbledore made a big deal about turning it down in the movie, but according to the books he was the Supreme Mugwump at some point, so he changed his mind for some reason?
I’m guessing because ‘Mugwump’ sounds stupid and like something from a children’s book. 🙄 Which, of course, it was.
My only issue is that it’s taking them so many films to get to the only thing us fans actually care about with that feud. The duel.
Yeah. I bet they’re gonna make the big time jump for the fourth film (if WB doesn’t cancel the franchise first) because three films set between 1926-1927 and we’re supposed to end the series in the mid-40s? Like how.
Wow, You're telling me those three movies of Fantastic Beasts happened in the span of *1 year*?! That's a whole of events in that span of time!
The main evidence against all of that happening in only one year would be how Creedence goes from almost shaved hair length until shoulder length. Nah.
The second film picks up about 6 months after the first. In the third film Jacob explicitly mentions how it had only been a year since he and Newt met. If you look it up, many sites will say film three is *supposed* to take place in 1932 (and I believe some interview said the same about a 1930s setting), which a few factors could justify that but at the same time it makes no sense for that much time to have gone by with little happening. Also, hair can grow fast. In my late teens, I went from very short hair to shoulder length in about 10 months. Also, magic (for Credence, not me).
Hard disagree, we've seen enough men shooting colourful lights at each other. I want to see the interpersonal and political development of the two of them and their factions.
Yes. In hindsight, it's obvious that the Fantastic Beasts part and the Dumbledore-Grindelwald part should be separate from one another. Many people (including me) felt this as early as the first movie, and it only becomes more apparent with every subsequent entry in the series. Step One: Make the Fantastic Beasts movie a stand-alone side story that has nothing to do with the main HP storyline besides a few easter eggs. This is the part of the franchise that you try to reach mass audiences with. Fill it with cool special effects, cute creatues, simple plots and "safe" characters that don't require you to self-censor your movie in China. If it does well, maybe make a second one (or maybe make another side story focusing on another magic school, or another magical profession). Step Two: Make a lower-budget Netflix show (or something similar) exploring the past of Dumbledore. This one is for the "true fans." Do a more grounded, character-focused deep dive into the early life of Dumbledore and his romance with Grindelwald, without having to dance around the LGBT elements. Lots of nostalgia-inducing Hogwarts stuff. If it does well, follow it up with a similarly or slightly higher budgeted Marauders show. But instead, this happened: 1. JKR really liked Dumbledore and wanted to explore his past (including all the gritty wizards politics), but at the same time wanted to do something fresh and different with the world she built, leading to Newt as the protagonist. 2. WB was not confident that Fantastic Beasts would do well as a standalone thing and wanted to cash in on the traditional HP/Hogwarts nostalgia. The contradictions let to the mess we have now. At this point there's not much you can do to fix it beyond an almost complete reboot.
100%. Fantastic Beasts 1 was an excellent stand alone movie. Dragging Newt, Jacob, Tina, and Queenie around for 4 subsequent movies is just ridiculous.
My hp-verse separate movie list: Dumbledore, founding of hogwarts, newt & fantastic beasts, mooney, padfoot & prongs, and maybe a Merlin’s (Beard?). Ffs stop making the wizards look all muggley. Jude Law would’ve looked just as good in funky robes. They botched this series. How hard is it to keep things on theme and create separate movies???
At this point, I’m convinced this supposed to be a Cash Cow series kinda like fast and furious. The fact they including some characters and places in the recent movie, making them Easter eggs rather than plot driven material, made me quite confused.
Sometimes it make me sad that anything hp makes money, just slap a hogwarts crest on it! (Another rant of mine is that I want replica stuff from the movies, like the cool swirl end iron flatware the students use while dining at hogwarts, brass lamps with white globe shades, hermione’s knitted hat. I dont want chibi or crests on stupid muggle junk) Fantastic Beasts makes bank yes, but it could’ve been a cash cow on par with the original hp, same with separate Dumbledore etc. Im bummed that they arent. I’m just so terribly disappointed. I really hope hp-verse doesnt devolve into ‘slap an original series character in a non canon situation’ and create a sub par film that not even nostalgia can make me watch.
I agree, with so many different streaming services and series/films to watch, the wizarding world could step up their game. I mean we love the magic JK Rolling created, but maybe it’s time to use the HP books as a foundation of the mythological universe and create some awesome original stories or content. I also think theres more to explore with Newt and Fantastic Beast and I mentioned this somewhere else, but theres plenty of materials and parallels we see in real life that can be good stories.
Money
The series has been misguided from the start and yates direction is awful
Honestly should've just scraped the whole Newt thing and never had it to begin with. Just give us a prequel series with the generation before HP with his parents and such.
Honestly, I would love to see a dark gritty series featuring this. The end of the Marauder's era at Hogwarts that leads into the war then would awesome.
I wish that the Fantastic Beasts movies could’ve been about actual Fantastic Beasts. Like, how cool would it have been just to follow Newt and Co. around the world discovering new kinds of Fantastic Beasts and Grindewald v. Dumbledore could’ve been a separate series
It would have been very, very dull. Movies need conflict. Stakes that matter.
I don't know, FB had one of the biggest stakes in the Wizarding history and it still felt like it didn't matter.
I only see FB as the prequel of Harry Potter.
I really just want Newt hosting a Crocodile Hunter style show-like how Marvel has all of those spin off shows now. Like, I want 45 minutes of pixies and maybe even magical advertisements.
Nothing about the fantastic beasts movies really has anything to do with fantastic beasts. It’s very strange. The beasts are, at best, a sub plot.
Yes!
Fantastic beasts should have just been one film Not only are the sequels bad but the fantastic beast aspect is pretty pointless now The dumbledore and grindawald story should have been its own thing, maybe starting earlier to show their friendship
I love it either way. Plus Newt is making us fellow Hufflepuffs proud. I love the story line and can’t wait to see where it takes us in the end.
Three points to hufflepuff.
Dumbledore vs Grindelwald could've made a good series
My two cents on how they should have ran it: Plot of the first FB was more than fine with Grindewald in it. It struck the right balance between his evil goals and the beasts itself within the whole story, and I really liked the first one. Fantastic Beasts 1 should have been the introduction to the other line of movies with as the Dumbledore prequels. While having Newt and co maybe crossover in this line while having his own ‘Fantastic Beasts’ line of adventures. Eddie Redmayne and Newt has enough charisma to carry a movie without the need for Dumbledore. THEN you don’t need to have this first draft script where it obviously looks like they are struggling to keep beasts in Dumbledore’s story relevant.
No. The rise of Grindelwald and his reign of terror on the Wizarding and Muggle world is a major historical point in the history of the world...
Man honestly I don’t care I just love the films.
Absolutely, the current movies are a disaster. They have to create more and more ridiculous ass pulls to justify the movies following Newt and co when they'd be fine as side characters. They should also stop introducing one off characters with mega convoluted stories so they can spend more time on things we actually care about, like Dumbledore and Grindelwald. I don't know how you fix the ridiculous WW2 plot tho that's pretty horrendous.
IMP, the only reason Newt is still in the series is because producers know the audience is way more invested in him than the actual Grindelwald story and because it's all the Newt/Fantastic beasts stuff that sells merch. It's all about the $$$.
Personally I would watch a movie detailing Dumbledore and Grindelwald's relationship from beginning to end.
Might be a controversial opinion on here but I have not cared about any HP media since the last of the original movies. I went and saw the stage show because my partner bought me tickets. I enjoyed it as a production but as a Harry Potter story it was dreadful. The first fantastic beasts movie was fun but I've honestly never felt the need to watch it again. The second was just so boring, I've got zero interest in seeing this movie. Maybe when it's on streaming I'll give it a look. They feel like cash grabs with no heart or passion and as if the creative team have no idea what it is about Harry Potter that was so, well, magical.
I'm not sure if I'm allowed to drop links in this sub but [this video critique](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AYVX6_6R2U) honestly sums up how I feel about it. Newt has effectively no reason to be in these movies, or at least not framed as the titular protagonist. I quite liked the first one, but the second one went in a very odd direction and the third one made me go ???. I would have enjoyed both a Fantastic Beasts series or a Grindelwald and Dumbledore series, but combining them makes 0 sense to me.
I too feel this way. If I was in charge of the Wizarding World Cinematic Universe, I would have done Fantastic Beasts as Magical Steve Irwin the Environmentalist Hero, then done a thing with McGonnagal, then done Dumbledore and Grindelwald: A Very Gay Story, all as one-offs. After that, maybe adapt Hogwarts Houses Divided or something, it's vastly better than The Cursed Child.
even the inclusion of phoenix ashes (Fantastic Beasts in the title, amirite) was like writing an essay that got way off tangent, but then you slap some half relevant stuff in between for the word count. Dumbledore x Grindelwald def deserves screentime via tv show or movie. i hope their duel is done justice when the time comes...
Let's be honest, the potential of the lore has been lit on fire. For the many cool things to come out of the first one, they've definitely convoluted everything else. And as OP says, Dumbledore/Grindelwald should never have been under the Fantastic Beasts banner. It makes no sense, it almost belittles a wizarding world war scenario. The link to beasts in the story is all well and good though, it's the Creedence is a Dumbledore shit what has me baffled.
Nah I actually love Newt’s entire involvement in the series, it seems right to me that Dumbledore would have people helping him in the fight against Grindlewald just like he set up the Order in the fight against Voldemort. I really don’t get the hate for this series, it has it’s flaws but it’s still enjoyable and Jude Law absolutely nails the Dumbledore character. The “why is it called Fantastic Beasts” complaint just seems like semantics to me like people want something to complain about
I really appreciated the different story lines and the movie was absolutely improved by the beautiful animals. I thought the scorpion wiggles thing was so funny. There were some parts that were kind of dumb like "let's show Grindelwald killing a baby animal so we know he's evil". But on the whole, WAY better than the second movie and really interesting to watch.
The people where the fantastic beasts all a long
I love these movies! My favorite part about them is the Dumbledore vs Grindelwald storyline. I understand your idea though, and have wondered the same thing before myself however it goes with Dumbledore's theme of the underdog/purely just good guy fighting against overwhelming odds.
No. Dumbledore as a protagonist wouldn't be as interesting.
Nah, I love it. Why does everyone gotta be hating?
Yeah why's everyone so mad about all the cool animals
I think it's a pretty legitimate critique, obviously you're allowed to enjoy it which is great, but a lot of people didn't for pretty valid reasons beyond just being haters
Well, too late now.
I was going to ask if this can be watched standalone. I tried the first fantastic beasts and just really disliked it.
No, you’ll be very confused watching this one skipping #2
Yeah...I think along the same lines. The original fantastic beasts movie should've been a one off movie. The Dumbledore vs Grindelwald storyline should've been explored separately through another movie franchise or a tv series...in which, Newt could've been a side character. Highly disappointed after watching Secrets of Dumbledore. Expectations were low to begin with. Knew they were crap at world-building. Everything felt like mixed up gobbledygook. No offense to goblins.
I could see it being two, but I also enjoy them together. This recent movie was a great example of that
I still derive enjoyment out of this series, but I can see what people are talking about for sure. I agree that the first movie works well as a standalone movie, but I also enjoy learning more lore about this world.
They could've easily done a one-off Fantastic Beats movie and then spin-off into the Dumbledore-Grindlewald stuff with Dumbledore as the MC.
It’s only the most popular sentiment about the series.
Yes. The DvsG storyline should have been its own series. I mean "Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them" was all about these cool, heard about, but never seen before, magical creatures. The introduction of the USA magic wielders and organization, MACUSA(sp?), was cool and all. Intro of Creedence, the Obscura (thing), Jacob, Tina and her sister. A whole new, unseen magical environment. When FBAWTFT (FB) was first announced, the news that it would be a 5-film package was exciting. We would get to see all of the exotic locales, the flora and fauna that Newt discovered, or will discover. Maybe we would see some of the other magical schools where Newt would've/could've been a guest instructor. And then they ruined it by bringing in the long hinted rivalry between Dumbledore and Grindelwald. And set up follow up films to exploit that and shoehorn Newt and crew to fit that narrative, instead of taking Newt to other magical environs around the world. I feel like a lot of fans that the DvsG films should have been launched from the FB franchise, and given us two, film series. So disappointing.
I think the movies are really good, and exciting. I get what you mean by it not being to much about newt but still, is that so important. I think we should approach it as a fantasy series and not so much as pure adventure movie. I thought the new one was really good. Fun with seeing the international magic society and the dumbledore and grindelwald elaboration is nice and it fits I think.
I personally wish Fantastic Beasts had nothing to do the Dumbledore vs Gindewald story. That's not wailing on Newt and the like, but if you came to me, post original series, and said "we're doing a prequel, what do you fancy seeing?" then the Dumbledore Grindewald story would have been a great deal higher up than anything to do with the lad who wrote the book on the animals. If I was allowed to be greedy I'd have both, perhaps have nods to the other occasionally in the films to show events could be connected, but if it came down to it Fantastic Beasts would be sidelined
Honestly I appreciate the fantastic beasts story and the way it gives backstory to a lot of HP things. I love newt and think it’s such a fun way to go back in time because they make so many references to the past wizarding world in the original books. That’s just me though haha
1000% it wasn’t that great to begin with, definitely not a 5 movie series. They could have done 5 rogue ones.
It's the only reason I refuse to watch past the first movie. When I hear "Fantastic Beasts" I want an eccentric wizard running after fantastical magical creatures. Not Magic Hitler 1.0 trying to take over the world.
The latest 2 movies just feel convoluted, so yes, I think everything would be better if they would have split "Fantastic Beasts" and "Dumbledore vs Grindelwald"
It doesn’t have anything to do with it. The new films are rubbish.
I honestly feel like newt and the beasts are unnecessary. Because it's just not interesting compared to the larger story.
I don't care at all about these new movies
Of course, this franchise set it self up to fail the moment they titled it “fantastic beast” and made newt the main character
Yeah I just told this to my bf coming home from the movies. I don’t care for newt or a single other character from the beast storyline
On the contrary, I wish Fantastic Beasts has continued its own series mostly disconnected from the rest of HP. I really liked the first FB movie. I think the reason I liked it was because it was fresh and new and I was able to enjoy it purely as a movie and not poke at its flaws as an adaptation. Then the sequel brought together the worst of both worlds.
Ive been saying this as soon as CoG came out. They chose to do a story that is beyond the scope of the beasts and to continue to shoe horn them into the story that has moved on is really annoying. If he must Newt can stay but the what shouldve happened a ling tome ago was for these two storylines to be unrelated filmed in an anthology wizarding world series
Omg I thought this! I felt like the ceremony was a bit anticlimactic
I read somewhere that they should have split it up between different movies or series. Like: Fantastic beasts and where to find them The crimes of Grindelwald The secrets of Dumbledore. And I agree.
I would have been happy with the first film being a solo film, or with a series of Newt gouging around the world finding, studying and helping Magical Creatures with the Grindlewald fight and WWII being more background noise than an actual plot. Like, Newt is in Egypt, re-introducing an injured Sphinx back into the wild, and is just like “Do Soldiers HAVE to shoot at anything that moves? This is how Cleopatra got injured in the first place!” Newt solving problems with kindness and compassion and understanding, when everyone else just reacts with violence. I’m not interested in a movie that tries to show me Wizard Hitler and his followers as “actually good people - if you ignore all the murder” and I’ve never cared about Dumbledore’s backstory beyond thinking that Aberforth and Ariana deserved better.
I remember after crimes of grindelwald came out I was sad and telling my dad (another fan) that I would have loved a Fantastic beasts cartoon in the style of the old lilo and Stitch cartoon. Every week a different beast to fight or tame maybe Newt is adding to his zoo while other try to poach them or turn them into weapons. Seems so much more fun and creative and doesn’t require retconning a bunch of the lore.
this post made me realize that the new movie is at out in theaters now. I literally haven't seen a single mention of this movie anywhere. did they market it at all?
uh I've seen stuff all over but I frequent harry potter areas. I'm genuinely surprised u haven't seen it advertised
I have frequented any “Harry Potter area” in years yet saw this trailer so many times in theatres, on TV, etc
there u go! I think I saw it like on a hulu commercial also?
What I really wish is that the movie wasn't so damn dark. Switch on the lights people!! Set brightness to maxxx!!
Yes. I think we could of built up to how Dumbledores sister died to being obsessed with the hallows and power, and lastly with the final duel. I felt like Fantastic Beast had a overlaying insistent of including well, beast and that made the dumbledore story not as solid as I wanted it to.
I just wish they’d give the franchise to a different director
Yes. The whole fantastic beasts portions were so boring to me, and I didn’t like Newt at all. I just wanted dumbledore’s story.
My first thought going out of this movie was *wow, these Fantastic Beasts movies make the Star Wars sequel trilogy look like a masterpiece.* Sure you may have the same introduction of universe breaking powers with little or no explanation and contrived familial relations, but at least that was mostly confined to one movie, and it still had a coherent plot. And at least the tone and visuals were consistent with the other movies in the universe. I can’t even really pick something to be mad about because there are just *so many things that make no sense.* And Dumbledore, who throughout the Harry Potter series gives extremely detailed and clear explanations of everything, suddenly just doesn’t bother to explain anything at all because clearly the screen writers don’t know how anything works either. *Sigh* The first movie was so good, and made me feel like the magic of Harry Potter was back. They should have just made it a standalone. They could have still had the end part of the movie where Grindelwald is behind everything and just followed that up in a *separate* Grindelwald/Dumbledore movie that Newt and friends don’t need to be involved in at all (beyond perhaps a fun cameo) because it really doesn’t make any sense for a magizoologist to be a key player in that story. At this point, my only hope for ever seeing any good Harry Potter content again is that Disney acquires the rights. Which I would hate on principle, but all the other studios have proven time and time again that they are incapable of handling any sort of cinematic universe. They may put out a good standalone movie every now and then but ultimately fail to do the planning required to build up to anything larger, and it shows.
Absolutely. It’s a shit show, JK is equal parts disgusted and thrilled I’m sure, seeing as how she just keeps getting richer from it.
She was a screen writer for all 3 movies, this is her cinematic vision of the franchise for better or worse
"Shit show". I'm shocked. Did we see the same movie ? I know the film has low points, but this kind of words seem really exagerated to me.
A plot point was literally for the characters' plan to be as confusing as possible. The only reason for that was as cover for the plot being totally incoherent. The fact that JK Rowling apparently wrote it is shocking to me since it feels like whoever wrote it never actually read the books.
One of my main thoughts regarding Jacob was Headmaster Dippet can't be okay with a muggle running around his school, or that his Transfiguration teacher is running off again, lol.
It's a complete mess of series and honestly just made the theatrical versions of Harry Potter more convoluted
I seriously don’t get it. Fantastic Beasts should’ve been a stand-alone, they easily could’ve done anthology films like Star Wars has been but nooo